[HN Gopher] Find a pub that needs you
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Find a pub that needs you
        
       Author : thinkingemote
       Score  : 166 points
       Date   : 2026-01-14 15:44 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ismypubfucked.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ismypubfucked.com)
        
       | fourside wrote:
       | For anyone else who entered a US zip code and was confused by the
       | 'invalid zip code' error: this is UK only.
        
         | imzadi wrote:
         | Yeah, they could reduce confusion by changing "the government"
         | to "the UK government."
        
           | Tom1380 wrote:
           | If Americans did the same it would be great
        
             | RIMR wrote:
             | Good luck. Americans won't even differentiate Washington
             | State and Washington D.C. Even the AP guidelines say that
             | "Washington" is ubiquitous shorthand for "Washington D.C."
             | and recommends against shortening it to "D.C."
        
             | deelayman wrote:
             | This is also a problem that exists within countries. My RSS
             | feed is littered with Canadian independent (national) news
             | agencies not defining what municipality article headlines
             | relate to. E.g. "Mayor pushes back against province on xyz
             | issue". Okay, that might be huge news for Timmins Ontario ,
             | but maybe BAU for Toronto. Even skimming the lead paragraph
             | doesn't define the city often.
             | 
             | *Editting with a point: Perhaps everyone assumes a local
             | audience.
        
             | pierrec wrote:
             | _Americans_ , hm? I see what you did there.
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | your first clue might have been that it does not say "zip code"
         | in either the field label or the error message, it says
         | "postcode".
        
           | MisterTea wrote:
           | I doubt most people would bother to think about that detail.
        
           | badc0ffee wrote:
           | Australia and NZ have postcodes, too.
           | 
           | If they had made this a .co.uk rather than a .com, there
           | would be no confusion.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Or the term "pub." In the US it's much more usual to say
           | "bar." Maybe "tavern" but that sounds rather dated to my ear.
        
             | Thews wrote:
             | When I lived in the PNW people used the word pub more than
             | bar.
        
               | selectodude wrote:
               | That's because everybody up there thinks that liking
               | soccer makes them English.
        
               | toasterlovin wrote:
               | My sense is that it is an affectation meant to indicate
               | an aspiration to something more than a bar (and its
               | coarse patrons).
        
             | tshaddox wrote:
             | "Bar" is certainly the catch-all term in the U.S., but
             | "pub" is also very widely understood to refer to a specific
             | type of bar, especially (but not limited to) bars
             | deliberately styled as Irish or British pubs.
        
               | tracker1 wrote:
               | Along a similar note, I hate when a Bar is labelled as a
               | "Pub" and doesn't serve food. IMO, in the US, if it's
               | labelled a "pub" it should serve food.
        
               | wat10000 wrote:
               | Come to Virginia, where it's outright illegal for any
               | establishment serving alcohol to not also serve food (and
               | not only must food be served, it must account for at
               | least 45% of revenue).
        
               | tracker1 wrote:
               | I'm nut sure I'd go that far... it's just I expect a
               | "Pub" to include pub food.
        
               | badc0ffee wrote:
               | Do they make you order food with every round of drinks? I
               | remember hearing about places like that from my dad, and
               | it seems it would have worked better in the era of cheap
               | drinks/low built-in alcohol taxes.
        
               | dustincoates wrote:
               | I went to college in a county that only allowed alcohol
               | sales with food for clubs (think: country clubs). So, of
               | course, the restaurant that I worked for created its own
               | club. You simply filled out your name (and maybe phone
               | number, I don't remember) on a piece of paper when you
               | ordered your drink.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | every now and then you'll find a public house or
               | similarly named
        
             | 9rx wrote:
             | "Pub" is a fairly common term throughout the world. But
             | "pub _that needs you_ " made it pretty obvious that it was
             | about pubs in England.
        
               | thebruce87m wrote:
               | Did it? I put my postcode in and got nothing. It took
               | browsing the map to discover it had no results for
               | Scotland at all.
        
               | 9rx wrote:
               | Yes. Being on the other side of the world, I've only ever
               | heard of efforts to save English pubs. Thus, without more
               | details, one knows that is what is being referred to.
               | Perhaps Scotland has the same kind of movement happening
               | at the local level, but something on a global website
               | implies global context.
        
               | thebruce87m wrote:
               | The website is for England and Wales.
        
           | fourside wrote:
           | The site has since changed the content from when I made the
           | comment. It used to say zip code in the label and error.
        
           | jtbaker wrote:
           | I think of postal code as a generic, international form of
           | the concept, not tied to a location.
        
         | xrownow wrote:
         | Any plans to release the code? Would be nice to allow others to
         | do something similar for their local pubs.
        
         | amouat wrote:
         | Seems to be England only. No results for Edinburgh.
        
           | eterm wrote:
           | Business rates are a devolved matter, Scotland set their own
           | rates.
        
           | iso1631 wrote:
           | I see results on both sides of the border here, Wales and
           | England.
        
         | rcbdev wrote:
         | Silly me, I entered an Austrian zip code out of principle. Did
         | not expect it to work, though, of course.
        
       | jihadjihad wrote:
       | I like how the status values could be used as labels of economic
       | wellbeing for people, too:                 Somehow Fine
       | Feeling It       Struggling       Fucked       Absolutely Fucked
        
         | stonegray wrote:
         | Stealing this for error logging levels
        
           | jihadjihad wrote:
           | s/Somehow/Possibly/g haha but I like that idea!
        
           | cyberpunk wrote:
           | The bristol stool scale also works well. Although that's
           | better for sprint planning maybe..
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | so...you got me. thinking it might have something to do
             | with out worn the stools in your pub are. nope it's just,
             | you know, stool.
        
             | grumblepeet wrote:
             | I live in south Bristol where the "Bristol stool scale" and
             | the "pubs that need your help" overlap distressingly.
        
       | rconti wrote:
       | Interest in context on "government pub rates". New tax scheme?
        
         | cjs_ac wrote:
         | Changes to property taxes on business premises.
        
         | amiga386 wrote:
         | Existing tax. Proposed new calculation for the "value" of
         | business property, disproportionately affecting pubs.
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e57dexly1o
         | 
         | > In her November Budget, Chancellor Rachel Reeves scaled back
         | business rate discounts that have been in force since the
         | pandemic from 75% to 40% - and announced that there would be no
         | discount at all from April. That, combined with big upward
         | adjustments to rateable values of pub premises, left landlords
         | with the prospect of much higher rates bills.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_rates_in_England
         | 
         | > Properties are assessed in a rating list with a rateable
         | value, a valuation of their annual rental value on a fixed
         | valuation date using assumptions fixed by statute. Rating lists
         | are created and maintained by the Valuation Office Agency, a UK
         | government executive agency.
        
           | rconti wrote:
           | Ah, interesting. So it sounds like the tax roughly scales
           | with property value (or size). And pubs are probably a "poor
           | use of land" because the revenue per square foot is not
           | particularly high?
        
             | amiga386 wrote:
             | Yes. It scales with a government agency's estimate of the
             | property's annual rent (even if you own it), based on
             | market rates in the area over the past two years, which
             | they then scale up/down based on floorspace and how
             | dilapidated the building is.
             | 
             | You pay a percentage of the hypothetical rent as tax. There
             | is a lower rate if you're a small business, and there are
             | also tax reliefs for various reasons (charity, partial
             | building occupation, etc.)
             | 
             | But pubs have been in trouble for quite some time: https://
             | www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2025/05/27/numbe...
             | 
             | Pubs have high costs, small margins and customers are
             | extremely price-sensitive. What pubs are generally asking
             | for is more types of relief, because what we tend to see is
             | pubs close, people in the area become more isolated, and
             | the building remains empty for years thereafter. [ _] Pubs
             | appreciated the post-COVID relief, but tax rates are about
             | to shoot up.
             | 
             | [_] fun fact: if the building is vacant, its landlord must
             | pay rates as if it's 100% occupied. Hence this brazen
             | scheme where a man puts a snail farm in every room so you
             | can pay the rates of an agricultural enterprise:
             | https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-
             | interactive/2025/dec/04/...
        
         | RobinL wrote:
         | > In her November Budget, Chancellor Rachel Reeves scaled back
         | business rate discounts that have been in force since the
         | pandemic from 75% to 40% - and announced that there would be no
         | discount at all from April.
         | 
         | That, combined with big upward adjustments to rateable values
         | of pub premises, left landlords with the prospect of much
         | higher rates bills.
        
         | flir wrote:
         | Pubs are dying. Have been for years.
         | 
         | Many deaths were postponed because their taxes were reduced due
         | to Covid. Those taxes are now returning to normal levels. This
         | will result in a glut of deaths, as pubs that were just hanging
         | on go under.
         | 
         | The policy question is, basically, do we want to subsidize pubs
         | because they're part of our national culture, even though we
         | don't use them nearly as much as we used to?
        
           | kristianc wrote:
           | "Does Britain really need?" has been responsible for the
           | gutting of so much of what used to make Britain a nice place
           | to live over the last 20 years. You can say she same about
           | public libraries, local bus routes, civic architecture, arts
           | funding, youth services, maintenance budgets. The damage has
           | been incalculable.
        
             | flir wrote:
             | You won't find any argument from me on all those other
             | things.
             | 
             | But pubs are a weird place to draw the line.
        
               | kristianc wrote:
               | Every one of them individually seems like a weird place
               | to draw the line. Social fabric and the ties that bond
               | matter.
        
           | jaccola wrote:
           | The government has decided that they know what's good for you
           | better for you than you do. So they tax alcohol at incredibly
           | high rates.
           | 
           | Without this more pubs could exist. So I don't think it's a
           | case of subsidising as much as removing the disincentive.
        
             | yunohn wrote:
             | I'm not familiar with the UK, but is the tax on alcohol at
             | pubs higher than at a store? My general understanding was
             | that people have just shopped visiting pubs for other
             | reasons - like diluted drinks, crappy food, loud music,
             | etc.
        
               | t-3 wrote:
               | Bars and pubs aren't really competing against the store
               | or restaurants, they're competing against you drinking
               | alone or with only close friends. If stepping in to have
               | a beer and shoot the shit would cost a significant chunk
               | of a day's wages, you just won't do it, but if I can buy
               | more beer with an hours wages than I can drink in an
               | hour, it's not a bad time.
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | Weatherspoons charge under PS3 for a pint in town. That's
               | 15 minutes at minimum wage.
               | 
               | Beer was far more expensive 25 years ago - PS1.60 in 2000
               | in the student pub when I first started buying my own
               | beer, that was about half an hour at minimum wage.
               | 
               | On the cost side: Wages are higher, energy costs more,
               | rent is higher (because if the pub can't operate the
               | owner can get planning permission to convert it to a
               | private dwelling and sell it for PS600k rather than
               | making PS12k a year in rent)
               | 
               | On the demand side: People are healthier and drink less.
               | It's nowhere near as acceptable to go out for a few pints
               | at lunch time. People can't drive to a rural pub.
        
               | messe wrote:
               | > Weatherspoons charge under PS3 for a pint in town.
               | That's 15 minutes at minimum wage.
               | 
               | Yeah but then you've to drink at spoons.
        
               | bodge5000 wrote:
               | That is spoons though, most pubs are 3-4x that
        
           | christkv wrote:
           | Lower taxes is not subsidising a business.
        
             | hermanzegerman wrote:
             | It is, when it gets a favourable treatment over other
             | businesses
        
       | fauria wrote:
       | Find an _English_ pub that needs you.
        
         | QuercusMax wrote:
         | Yeah, I have NO clue what this site is even about.
        
           | 9JollyOtter wrote:
           | It is a "use it or lose it" style campaign by the looks of
           | it.
           | 
           | Lots of Pubs in the UK are closing down in recent years. Pubs
           | have traditionally been a big part of socialising in the UK.
           | I don't drink anymore so I don't bother unless I am having a
           | pub lunch on a Friday.
        
         | graemep wrote:
         | Not true, it also covers pubs in Wales
        
       | sefrost wrote:
       | Wow a fantastic independent pub near where I used to live in
       | London is seeing its rateable value go up 480%! This website
       | really puts the headlines in to a nice local perspective.
       | 
       | It seems like the taxes only go up while the services get worse
       | in the UK, although I've been away for 5 years now so maybe
       | things improved.
        
         | moop_moop wrote:
         | The services have certainly not got better in the last 5 years.
         | This Government is fiscally illiterate and has hit the top of
         | the Laffer curve and is now trying to go down the other side.
        
           | fakedang wrote:
           | Unfortunately, if an election were to be held today, the
           | morons at Reform would have the greatest chance of winning,
           | thanks to Starmer's ostrich syndrome, Corbyn dividing the
           | Labour vote and the Tories being absolutely irrelevant after
           | 15 years of continuous rule.
        
           | LightBug1 wrote:
           | "This" ...?
           | 
           | You jest.
        
             | HPsquared wrote:
             | Meet the new government, same as the old government.
        
         | iNerdier wrote:
         | Amateurs. One close to me is at an +821% increase in its tax
         | bill and rateable value at 613%.
        
         | brightbeige wrote:
         | Here's the Lamb and Flag in Oxford
         | 
         | https://www.ismypubfucked.com/pub/11447801200
         | 
         | > the Inklings, a literary group including J. R. R. Tolkien and
         | C. S. Lewis, started meeting at The Lamb and Flag.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamb_%26_Flag,_Oxford
        
         | tialaramex wrote:
         | > seeing its rateable value go up 480%!
         | 
         | Rateable value is based on what the market prices would be to
         | rent that space. So, somebody is doing nicely apparently.
        
       | lenerdenator wrote:
       | This might be the single most British website on the internet.
       | 
       | I wonder if there's an equivalent use case in the US.
        
       | hunglee2 wrote:
       | brilliant website which manages to convey classic British humour
       | on a classically British topic. Also shines much needed light on
       | the very serious challenges independent British Pubs are
       | undergoing - these are essential social institutions, social
       | coherence is damaged every time one of these shut down.
        
       | ajb wrote:
       | Just getting a totally black map with anonymous coloured dots on
       | both chrome and Firefox. The pub may or may not be fucked, but
       | the website is.
       | 
       | (Yes I tried disabling all the dark settings, no difference)
        
       | edent wrote:
       | The one near me which is absolutely fucked, as far as I'm
       | concerned, deserves it.
       | 
       | Fighty customers, crap beer, odd opening hours, and half their
       | food menu is off ("sorry mate, we've got no cheese"). Oh, and now
       | their credit card terminal prompts customers for a tip!
       | 
       | I love a good pub, but most are crap.
        
         | twic wrote:
         | Near me, the (nice but always too busy) Old Dairy is getting a
         | cut, and the (mediocre Arsenal fan packed) Bank of Friendship
         | and Arsenal Tavern are getting obliterated. God exists, and he
         | supports Spurs!
        
       | wat10000 wrote:
       | People really struggle when given a link to a web site that isn't
       | for them, huh.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | No. It's when the web site doesn't say _who_ it 's for _at all_
         | , that's when everybody struggles. And understandably so.
        
           | wat10000 wrote:
           | People only struggle because of a self-centered view that
           | everything is supposed to be for them, and things that aren't
           | for them are a weird exception. A reasonable person will
           | realize that the fact that they don't understand any of what
           | it's talking about means they're not the target audience, and
           | move on (or poke around out of curiosity).
        
           | ikr678 wrote:
           | Except that as a english speaking non american, this happens
           | literally all the time with ecommerce?
           | 
           | It's not until I get to checkout I realise they do not ship
           | to my country or want to deal with me.
        
         | quitit wrote:
         | https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBRtbdVquWF/
         | 
         | Neither American nor from the UK, but I knew what this was
         | about because it's possible to go online and seek out
         | information. Neat.
         | 
         | What I didn't do was become some entitled see you next tuesday
         | and complain that a .com should be reserved for the american
         | audience and the site should use a .co.uk - As if american
         | businesses don't utilise foreign TLDs to create cutesy URLs.
         | Maybe now is a good time to note that the fashionable .AI TLD
         | belongs to Anguilla, a British territory.
        
       | dgxyz wrote:
       | Having watched two alcoholic family members die horribly, spurred
       | on by functioning alcoholic friends whos only social interaction
       | is at the pub through habit only, fuck 'em. Let them die.
       | 
       | We need better social spaces which do not have the token cost of
       | drinks to use.
        
         | antihero wrote:
         | Ok so because your family were alcoholics nobody should have a
         | space to drink? What an absurd thing to say.
        
           | dgxyz wrote:
           | No I'm saying we have a social problem with alcohol in this
           | country and brush it under the table as a cultural identity
           | thing.
        
             | cyberpunk wrote:
             | Its extremely hard to cope with how bleak life is in the UK
             | without frequent intoxication (source: abandoned the uk, no
             | longer drink at all)
        
               | dgxyz wrote:
               | Fair. That's what they invented planes for :)
        
       | anfractuosity wrote:
       | Great idea!
       | 
       | https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/personal-finance/finance-expe...
       | shows how little pubs make per pint, very sad.
       | 
       | If anyone's curious about cask beer
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ud_eTwY4nc&list=PLyDTS7ZG3z...
       | is a very interesting youtube video series by The Craft Beer
       | Channel.
        
         | hermitcrab wrote:
         | My grandparents were publicans 70+ years ago. Even they they
         | made very little on beer. All the profit was spirits and
         | software drinks. Probably food as well now.
        
           | cyberpunk wrote:
           | 15 quid for a 25ml of whisky is ridiculous however.
        
           | 9rx wrote:
           | _> All the profit was spirits and software drinks._
           | 
           | What are the margins on a Codeacola?
        
           | RobotToaster wrote:
           | > software drinks
           | 
           | I knew java was good for something
        
             | hermitcrab wrote:
             | Must have been muscle memory.
        
       | BolsunBacset wrote:
       | The UK government hates its populace, particularly its natives.
       | Downvote all you want.
        
       | tmp10423288442 wrote:
       | Broken - getting `ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR` when trying to open it
       | in Chrome
        
       | sobiolite wrote:
       | The nearest "absolutely fucked" pub to me hasn't existed since
       | 2008. I'd say they have bigger problems than a rates increase.
        
         | bspammer wrote:
         | They do acknowledge this on the site
         | 
         | > Based on VOA data (Nov 2025) which is often inaccurate. Many
         | pubs have also closed since then.
        
       | numbers wrote:
       | what is a "rateable value" here?
        
         | adw wrote:
         | Property tax valuation.
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | Would be much more helpful if it indicated literally _anywhere_
       | on the homepage that this was specific to the UK.
       | 
       | Being a .com as opposed to a .co.uk, you can't even tell from the
       | domain.
        
         | sva_ wrote:
         | Like the big red letters in the title that say "IN BRITAIN"?
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | I don't see that. Ctrl+F and zero "Britain" anywhere on the
           | page. Or even in the HTML source.
           | 
           | The only big red letters are "THAT NEEDS YOU".
        
         | bodge5000 wrote:
         | There are plenty of US sites that make no mention of being US
         | specific, I feel like this is well deserved
        
           | skinnymuch wrote:
           | The US is the center of the world though. There are
           | privileges to that like assuming the world revolves around
           | you.
        
       | tracker1 wrote:
       | While this is cool to see, would be nice to see some indication
       | of the nation specific context for those outside that nation...
       | especially since it's the more generic .com tld instead of say
       | .uk ...
       | 
       | Maybe even a Union Jack in the corner as a background image, or
       | something.
        
       | iso1631 wrote:
       | Nearest pub
       | 
       | 2023 Rateable Value PS13,800
       | 
       | 2026 Rateable Value PS12,250
       | 
       | Change -PS3,300(-23.9%)
       | 
       | I guess "no" would be the answer then.
       | 
       | Nearest town has 3 pubs where rates are going down significantly
       | and 4 where they're going up. I wonder why, is it that the
       | previous setup was unfair to those who are seeing their rates
       | going down?
       | 
       | The pub I do go to each week is seeing rates going up +PS3,300.
       | That's not as big an impact from yet another inflation busting
       | minimum wage increase.
       | 
       | However the much bigger concern is that people will be scared to
       | drive there. Currently you can drive there, have a pint, and then
       | go home, and be confident you're not triggering the limit.
       | They're reducing this limit, which means no more trip to the pub.
       | 
       | I'm sure it's fine in big cities where people live in walking
       | distance.
        
       | jdlyga wrote:
       | UK only
        
         | leapingdog wrote:
         | England & Wales only. The website is a response to new business
         | rates (taxes) arriving this year.
         | 
         | Scotland, Northern Ireland & the rest of the world play by
         | different rules.
        
       | lacoolj wrote:
       | Am I the only one that has no idea what this is talking about?
       | Even the "About" section just dumps a ton of jargon about
       | something being a problem for "pubs" - which, very unclear from
       | the homepage, is actually talking about bars/places to drink
       | beer/etc in the UK.
       | 
       | But again, now I know it's talking about _that kind of pub_ ,
       | what is the actual issue? Some sort of rate being added to
       | something? What rate? Is this related to a rating system? Taxes?
       | Is it affecting the consumer? The owner?
       | 
       | So confused.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Nope, I have utterly no idea what "rate increases" are being
         | referred to. Doesn't seem to have a single explanation or link
         | anywhere that I can find.
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | A form of property tax it looks like, charged on businesses:
           | https://www.gov.uk/introduction-to-business-rates
        
           | alexfoo wrote:
           | To be fair, I'd say that most people in the UK who would be
           | interested in the contents of this site are aware of the
           | context and know what phrases like "rates increases" actually
           | mean.
           | 
           | It's been in the news quite a bit over the years since the
           | pandemic.
           | 
           | Not every site has to provide an ELI5.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | The homepage doesn't even say it's about the UK.
             | 
             | For a generic ".com" domain that isn't American, it's
             | generally a good idea to yes, have a kind of minimal hint
             | that tells you at least which country it's about, and at
             | least a single link you can follow to get the broader
             | context.
             | 
             | I'm following a link to it on HN. When I get there, I have
             | zero context. Visitors to your site can come from anywhere,
             | so it's generally considered a good idea to provide basic
             | context.
        
       | DiabloD3 wrote:
       | Man, it's weird being an American sometimes.
       | 
       | I do not drink. I am half Irish and half German.
       | 
       | Drinking is a _very_ weird cultural artifact from our past. It
       | doesn't improve your life, it has been scientifically proven to
       | not 'help you relax', and there may in fact be no safe amount of
       | alcohol to drink; all the pop-sci headlines that say 'one glass
       | of wine a week may improve your health' are really about studies
       | that put the safe max at one glass per week.
       | 
       | From what I can tell, the UK is no longer subsidizing what is
       | effectively a criminal enterprise that is centuries old.
        
         | danielfoster wrote:
         | With all due respect this opinion verges on neo prohibitionist
         | alarmism. The social benefits of alcohol have been widely
         | acknowledged and at a time when we are all spending too much
         | time at home on our phones (arguably worse for health than a
         | pint), communities need more social spaces. That place may not
         | necessarily be a bar and it's perfectly fine if you don't wish
         | to drink, but it's a bit much to refer to a cultural product as
         | a criminal enterprise.
        
           | DiabloD3 wrote:
           | Many people have written what you have written, trying to
           | justify their life choices to strangers on the internet.
           | 
           | None of them have ever explained why alcohol, or any drug
           | use, needs to be part of third spaces.
           | 
           | Society is losing third spaces, largely due to unchecked
           | capitalism eroding the society it serves... but 'pubs' are
           | just another form of rent-seeking by landlords. It has been
           | proven without a doubt that third spaces as a commercial
           | venture is ultimately non-functional, yet that is what pubs
           | and bars have always been, and now they are dying out.
        
             | danielfoster wrote:
             | Again, with all due respect, I'm not seeing how my comment
             | is pushing a "life choice" on anyone, and the movement to
             | restrict alcohol consumption equally qualifies as pushing a
             | life choice on someone.
             | 
             | Commercial pubs have existed for hundreds of year. But
             | drinking doesn't have to be commercial. In Berlin where I
             | live there's a non-profit hacker space that has a bar with
             | at-cost drinks. It's also perfectly legal to buy a beer and
             | sit in the park. And of course, nothing is better than
             | having friends over for a wine tasting.
        
             | 9rx wrote:
             | _> None of them have ever explained why alcohol, or any
             | drug use, needs to be part of third spaces._
             | 
             | Third places need to have some kind of draw, else nobody
             | will show up. "If you build it, they will come" is for the
             | movies. In the real world you need to have a compelling
             | reason to have others come in your door. Space alone is not
             | sufficient to establish a third space.
             | 
             | That draw doesn't necessarily have to be alcohol (or
             | another drug), but it was the thing that many people used
             | to want. Threatening use of a third space by fear of the
             | wrath of a mighty deity only buys you one day out of the
             | week, I'm afraid.
             | 
             | You're quite right that people no longer want alcohol like
             | they used to. Why nurse a hangover when you can get the
             | same dopamine rush scrolling through TikTok at home from
             | the comfort of your couch? This means that many third
             | spaces of yesteryear no longer serve a purpose, and as you
             | call out, have closed as a result.
             | 
             | Which is all well and good, I guess, but some segment of
             | the population still wish that there were third spaces for
             | them to exist in. Trouble is that they've never been able
             | to find anything as compelling as alcohol used to be across
             | large swaths of the population, making a different kind of
             | third space of the same scale a complete no-go. Trying to
             | salvage the remaining alcohol-centric third places is the
             | only path they can see to try and relive that glory.
             | 
             | Of course there are plenty of alcohol-free (or at least not
             | alcohol focused) third spaces that revolve around niche
             | interests, but these are generally not seen as a good fit
             | for those who don't have that particular niche interest.
             | Alcohol was historically so successful as the foundation
             | for a third space because, once upon a time, nearly
             | everyone was interested in it, bringing everyone in the
             | door.
        
             | volkl48 wrote:
             | The book "Drunk: How We Sipped, Danced, and Stumbled Our
             | Way to Civilization" would be a good read for you, should
             | you wish to consider alternative viewpoints.
             | 
             | --------
             | 
             | Distilling what I remember about an entire book I read a
             | couple years ago into a HN comment is difficult, but one of
             | the more salient notes from it is this: Adult humans are
             | naturally suspicious of others and slow to trust,
             | particularly those they have no existing points of
             | connection to. In contrast - children have much lower
             | inhibitions in this sense and are much better at this.
             | 
             | Alcohol, in moderation, is one of the most effective tools
             | in humanity's arsenal to more easily socialize with and
             | create trust with total strangers.
             | 
             | The "reduction of inhibitions" we are all aware of in terms
             | of being a risk of making negative choices, also serves to
             | greatly reduce inhibition of the average adult to new
             | interactions and experiences.
             | 
             | It is difficult to achieve this result in adults otherwise,
             | especially in terms of a single activity with low
             | investment required in time, money, facilities, and
             | commitment.
             | 
             | --------
             | 
             | It is likely that as we transitioned from a society where
             | adult encounters with total strangers were rare
             | (tribal/village) to common (urban) that alcohol played a
             | pretty significant role in creating the social cohesion for
             | it.
             | 
             | It is not at all clear that we have found some successful
             | alternative to this, and we may well find that even with
             | all the documented downsides of it, we're worse off as a
             | society for moving away from it.
             | 
             | -----
             | 
             | Again, this is my recollection of a book I read a couple
             | years back - don't take this word for word. I will also
             | note that it's not all rosy and has some thoughts on the
             | types of consumption we should probably discourage as well
             | and the general risk/reward of alcohol in society.
        
         | xhevahir wrote:
         | What's especially American about this remark isn't the
         | experience of consuming alcohol in public. What is
         | characteristically American, I think, is the assumption that we
         | can pronounce a thing good or bad merely on the basis of its
         | effect on the individual, with no regard for one's
         | relationships with other people. Drinking in a pub is a social
         | activity, and the alcohol is a lubricant for that activity.
         | Yes, doing too much of it can cause great harm; doing _any_
         | amount of it could cause _some_ harm; it does not follow that
         | the thing is a net detriment to society, and that it should be
         | banned.
        
           | DiabloD3 wrote:
           | Maybe it is that way for people in the UK, or maybe people of
           | a certain age group.
           | 
           | However, I am, as I said, an American, but also a Millennial.
           | For many Millennials, drinking _isn 't_ a social activity, it
           | is a form of quiet shame. We saw our parents and aunts and
           | uncles and grandparents destroy their lives because of
           | alcoholism, we lost friends and family because of being
           | victims of drunk drivers, we saw people die of complications
           | of a lifetime of drinking.
           | 
           | A lot of us simply chose not to repeat those mistakes as
           | those mistakes effect the people around us in grave ways.
           | 
           | If anything, drinking is an anti-social activity, even if you
           | do it entirely socially.
           | 
           | I just don't see the point in keeping it around.
        
         | ivvve wrote:
         | It sounds like you don't understand what a pub is like.
         | 
         | Whilst this is definitely not what's it's like, this quaint
         | video is all about the lineage of the pub in the UK, and
         | explains the third-spaceness of them, which I'd argue still
         | exists[1].
         | 
         | Pubs are so important for our communities in the UK, whether
         | that's watching the game, seeing a friend's band, celebrating a
         | birthday or just catching up after work.
         | 
         | Many of the parts of my life have been lived in a pub. If it's
         | criminal, I'd happily be locked up. Or maybe lock me in, a
         | sadly rarer occurrence these days.
         | 
         | [1] https://youtu.be/_GCcoaSq3x4?si=QunsiKqk4D4IRV0M
        
           | sleepybrett wrote:
           | Exactly, designing a 'third place' that isn't alcohol focused
           | seems to be a tough nut to crack. Alcohol greases the wheels
           | for socialization and is a highly profitable item for a place
           | to sell that keeps the lights on (people may have several
           | drinks an hour, drinking leads to more drinking both in the
           | long and shot terms, etc). Meanwhile a typical coffeeshop
           | here in seattle is, aside from the espresso machines, is a
           | near silent library-like space. Many people heads down in a
           | book or a laptop. Instead of having a few drinks per hour you
           | instead may have a single coffee and maybe a pastry or
           | sandwich.
           | 
           | If someone opened a social space with maybe a kitchen that
           | let you pay by the hour to hang out, credit for kitchen
           | orders. All the other bar/pub accoutrements gaming (darts,
           | pool, shuffleboard, pinball, whatnot), sports on the tv,
           | whatever .. I still don't think people will go for it.
           | 
           | I think the only non-boozy option that comes to mind is the
           | small town diner but those are thin on the ground.
        
         | sleepybrett wrote:
         | Here is what I will say. Drinking certainly is not a healthy
         | choice. However hanging out with your peers for a few hours a
         | night in public certainly is.
         | 
         | Unfortunately I haven't found any place that cracks that
         | problem in america, especially into the later hours. There
         | isn't really a place for people to hang out and socialize
         | without it being a boozy bar. As someone who doesn't really
         | enjoy drinking I don't even really want to go to
         | boardgame/chess/trivia nights at bars because I feel like I'm
         | freeloading. ( I imagine any given bar patron is having 1-3
         | drinks per hour and potentially ordering some food if that is
         | an option. I might order some food and have a soda...)
         | 
         | I assume part of the problem being that alcohol has the helpful
         | side effect of greasing the wheels socially. Coffee houses that
         | are open late are generally library like affairs, a lot of
         | people sitting around on laptops or with books, any attempt to
         | start a more social night is, in my experience, refused because
         | of this.
        
       | NooneAtAll3 wrote:
       | Kinda wish there was some way to quickly scroll through the
       | pages... Also data seems to be different when ordered by
       | different values?
       | 
       | When ordered by RVPS there are 43703 entries with data. Most
       | negative RVPS change is -PS137,500 for 33 Main Road
       | 
       | When ordered by RV% there are 43303 entries with data. Most
       | negative RV% change is -87.0% for PAVILLION HOTEL
        
       | sleepybrett wrote:
       | For a dumb american, what is a 'pub rate'?
        
         | leapingdog wrote:
         | A tax based on property value.
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgjwgzwe2eyo
        
       | bodge5000 wrote:
       | somehow my local, which is pretty dodgy, is doing fine. I need to
       | driving distance to find one thats fucked, and Im not even in a
       | well funded area
        
       | philo23 wrote:
       | Kinda meta, but this is the first time in a long time where I've
       | put only the first half of my postcode in expecting it not to
       | work and been surprised. Most of these "find your nearest XYZ"
       | site require the full postcode which is just unnecessary unless
       | you're looking for a fairly precise location. A full postcode can
       | narrow your location down to an individual street, so its nice
       | not to give too much away if you can.
       | 
       | For anyone not in the know, UK postcodes are made up of two
       | parts: a general area (the outward code) and then a more specific
       | one (the inward code.) Generally speaking a postcode + house
       | number will be good enough to get a letter delivered to the right
       | place, though the sorting office might not be too happy with
       | you...
       | 
       | The format [0] is roughly: AB12 3CD, though the number of
       | letters/numbers on the left side can vary a bit. As far as I know
       | the second set of numbers is always 1 digit though, so that's how
       | you can easily split the two sides of it to format it nicely.
       | There's a couple of special ones that break the rules though.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postcodes_in_the_United_Kingdo...
        
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