[HN Gopher] Government drops plans for mandatory digital ID to w...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Government drops plans for mandatory digital ID to work in UK
        
       Author : FridayoLeary
       Score  : 156 points
       Date   : 2026-01-14 15:29 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | AlexandrB wrote:
       | For now.
       | 
       | For whatever reason, Tony Blair's think tank is obsessed with
       | this idea[1]. As I understand he still has a lot of influence
       | over British politics.
       | 
       | [1] https://institute.global/digital-id-what-is-it-and-how-it-
       | wo...
        
         | scrlk wrote:
         | > For whatever reason, Tony Blair's think tank is obsessed with
         | this idea.
         | 
         | Probably considers it as unfinished business from his
         | administration:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006
        
         | vimda wrote:
         | If you ignore all the big red flags, it _is_ an attractive and
         | convenient idea. One ID for all my government services? Useful.
         | The devil, as always, is in the details
        
           | vablings wrote:
           | There are absolutely ways to implement a digital ID system
           | that is not soaking wet with red flags. See the following:
           | https://www.eid.admin.ch/en/swiyu-coming-soon-e
        
         | nephihaha wrote:
         | It doesn't originate with him, it is being phased in
         | internationally. It's obviously been discussed far more widely.
        
           | AlexandrB wrote:
           | It may not originate with Tony Blair, but he might be the one
           | trying to get it passed in the UK specifically.
        
         | nprateem wrote:
         | Anyone with half a brain can see it could be a good idea.
         | Everything else is online, why shouldn't ID be? Better to send
         | a validated token to companies doing KYC than actual PII. And
         | that's before you get into the illegal immigration, right to
         | work, etc.
         | 
         | I really don't understand the arguments against it. You don't
         | think the State can't shut you down if you break the law
         | already?
        
       | noodlesUK wrote:
       | It sounds like they've dropped the digital ID part being
       | mandatory, but not the digital right-to-work checks being
       | mandatory. I suspect that the UK will end up building something
       | like the US's E-Verify programme, which allows a number of
       | documents to be checked against authoritative sources. It really
       | wouldn't be that hard to build a service that in the first
       | instance allowed you to generate a share code with a GBR passport
       | much the same way people can generate share codes with their
       | drivers licenses or UKVI accounts.
       | 
       | What I have a problem with is just how fragmented and broken the
       | UK immigration system is when you have the misfortune of coming
       | into contact with it. It's (like many such large systems
       | worldwide) a set of policies and rules that have accumulated over
       | time into something that is pathologically poorly thought out.
       | I'm going through the process of renewing my spouse's visa (I'm
       | British), and it's fractally awful -- we've just had a snarky
       | email from our landlord who is worried that the right-to-rent
       | permission is expiring, but it's not possible to apply for a
       | renewal for the visa prior to 28 days before expiry of her
       | current visa. I meet all the criteria to sponsor my spouse for
       | renewal, but the evidentiary burden is insane (I've collected
       | 400+ pages of documents so far). Nobody wants this. It is very
       | expensive and difficult (probably >PS10k per person until
       | permanent residency in fees, not including legal expenses) to be
       | compliant even if you meet the criteria, which just leads people
       | falling out of status (to borrow an American term). The
       | government (of all stripes) tries to be "tough" but the only
       | lever it knows how to pull is to make the rules stricter, not
       | making them better enforced or align with some meaningful policy
       | agenda.
       | 
       | This farcical situation extends into the UK's broken citizenship
       | model where there are 6 different types of nationality, none of
       | which give any rights you can't build through a hodgepodge of
       | other different statuses. As far as I know the UK is the only
       | country in the world that permits dual nationality _with itself_!
       | 
       | A government online account which can generate verifiable
       | credentials would probably be helpful in a broad sense but it
       | wouldn't cure bad policy which is rampant in the UK immigration
       | sector. I'd much rather have some kind of digital ID that's clear
       | and authoritative rather than just hoping that Experian has my
       | details right with no recourse if they're wrong.
        
         | exe34 wrote:
         | > As far as I know the UK is the only country in the world that
         | permits dual nationality with itself!
         | 
         | How does one apply for this?
        
           | noodlesUK wrote:
           | It's possible to have been born with multiple forms of
           | British nationality such as being BOTC (e.g. bermudians) and
           | a British citizen at the same time.
           | 
           | It's also possible for e.g. a BNO to register for British
           | citizenship after a period of residence in the UK. This does
           | not extinguish the original nationality. Most hong kongers
           | with British citizenship are in this bucket.
        
             | exe34 wrote:
             | Oh right, so it's British Empire vs British mainland
             | citizenship.
        
               | chippiewill wrote:
               | Yeah, it's not as crazy as they make it sound. They're
               | also technically a Commonwealth citizen and previously an
               | EU citizen.
               | 
               | Not exactly two citizenships of the same country.
        
               | noodlesUK wrote:
               | It really is pretty crazy that some of the more esoteric
               | forms of citizenship have never been rolled into "British
               | Citizen". Almost all BOTCs were given the opportunity to
               | become British Citizens, but not all, and they kept the
               | original status around. BNOs are similarly a somewhat
               | silly situation especially now that it's possible to move
               | to the UK on the special BNO visa (which gives them
               | different/better family reunion rights than normal
               | British citizens). British Subjects essentially don't
               | exist in practice, but they also haven't just rolled that
               | into British Citizen status either (British Subject is
               | the residual status of certain Irish born people who
               | chose to retain the status - they have the right to live
               | in the UK on the basis of their Irish nationality, not on
               | their British nationality which is insane). There's just
               | a perpetual allergy to just rationalising the whole
               | setup.
               | 
               | It would be perfectly politically acceptable to just do
               | away with the statuses that have fewer than say 5000
               | people and grant them all full-fat citizenship. Generally
               | people who live in the UK are shocked when they find out
               | that holding a British passport does not entitle you to
               | the right to live in the UK.
        
         | vablings wrote:
         | The whole headache around good legal immigration is exactly why
         | I left the UK after getting married. The costs, timeline and
         | paperwork associated is insane! The US system is fairly bad
         | too, but the rules and categories are clear cut with reasonable
         | timelines
        
         | masfuerte wrote:
         | > This farcical situation extends into the UK's broken
         | citizenship model where there are 6 different types of
         | nationality, none of which give any rights you can't build
         | through a hodgepodge of other different statuses.
         | 
         | There is one right. If you are British at birth they can't
         | strip your citizenship and kick you out. Everyone else's
         | residence is at the whim of the Home Secretary.
        
           | funnybeam wrote:
           | Not heard of Shamima Begum?
           | 
           | British born, stripped of citizenship
           | 
           | I'm not commenting on the rightness or not of her case, just
           | pointing out that being born British is not necessarily the
           | guarantee you are describing
        
             | masfuerte wrote:
             | She was entitled to citizenship but she wasn't born with
             | it. My cousin's children were in a similar position having
             | been born outside the UK.
        
               | funnybeam wrote:
               | According to Wikipedia she was born in Britain and a
               | British citizen, but i am not aware of all the ins and
               | outs of her case
        
               | masfuerte wrote:
               | I'm not an immigration lawyer but as I understand it:
               | having been born in the UK as the child of Bangladeshi
               | parents who were living here legally she was entitled to
               | British citizenship, but she wasn't British
               | automatically. They would have had to apply for it. As
               | such, the politicians were able to take it away.
               | 
               | This is quite a recent change in the law. Prior to 2014
               | they could only strip citizenship if you applied and
               | received it without having a right to it (e.g. if you
               | were born abroad to non-British parents). After 2014
               | naturalised citizens (like Begum) were also liable.
               | 
               | I do think it is a bad law and she is being treated
               | disgracefully. There's still hope the ECHR will sort it.
        
               | chippiewill wrote:
               | Wrong way round. She was born in the UK and was a British
               | Citizen at birth and had a British passport
               | 
               | She is (maybe) entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship which
               | is why the UK government was allowed under UK law to
               | remove her British citizenship because British courts
               | didn't consider her to be stateless.
               | 
               | The only people who can't have British citizenship
               | removed are British citizens with no other citizenship or
               | entitlement to a citizenship. I think in theory that
               | means the British government is legally allowed to remove
               | citizenship from any person from Northern Ireland if they
               | justify it (since they're allowed to claim Irish
               | citizenship under the Good Friday agreement).
        
               | masfuerte wrote:
               | At birth she was entitled to citizenship but she wasn't a
               | citizen. Like my cousins. I describe the nuance in my
               | other comments on this thread.
        
           | jlokier wrote:
           | > If you are British at birth they can't strip your
           | citizenship and kick you out
           | 
           | Not true. If you have dual nationality at birth, typically
           | because you have one British parent and are born in the UK,
           | then you are British at birth but the Home Secretary has the
           | power to strip you of British citizenship anyway.
           | 
           | So, paradoxically, a child born in the UK to a British mother
           | can end up with stronger UK citizenship rights if the mother
           | doesn't reveal who the father is.
           | 
           | That's not as bad as if you are a naturalized British
           | citizen. In that case, the Home Secretary has the power to
           | strip you of British citzenship and leave you entirely
           | stateless (you have no citizenship anywhere), which you can
           | imagine is a very difficult status to live with.
        
             | masfuerte wrote:
             | This is what I thought until last week. Then I read the
             | actual legislation. The 2014 changes apply to naturalised
             | citizens. If you are born with two citizenships you aren't
             | naturalised.
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | Also Irish citizens in Britain have the same rights as British
         | citizens (even voting), plus all the benefits of EU citizenship
         | too. Brexit made us second class citizens in our own country.
         | Good job everyone.
        
       | andy_ppp wrote:
       | You know the UK desperately needs to spend billions on a never
       | ending software project with some awful agencies building the
       | impossible.
        
       | IshKebab wrote:
       | Shame. This made a lot of sense.
       | 
       | > existing checks, using documents such as biometric passports,
       | will move fully online by 2029.
       | 
       | Well I guess that's good at least. I imagine they'll just assign
       | people "digital passports" at some point and you just pay to get
       | a paper copy.
        
       | Pet_Ant wrote:
       | All this rigor for a country without an actual formalised
       | constitution. I mean, maybe the government should work on that
       | first and make sure it has a right to work there first?
       | 
       | > Unlike in most countries, no official attempt has been made to
       | codify ... thus it is known as an uncodified constitution.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kin...
        
         | dgxyz wrote:
         | Based on recent events, I wouldn't suggest a constitution makes
         | much of a difference to an adversarial government.
        
           | littlestymaar wrote:
           | This. The illusion that you could fend off tyranny with a
           | piece of paper was always a bit ridiculous, and it shows.
        
             | isk517 wrote:
             | Arguably it's purpose is to define where government
             | responsibility ends and tyranny begins. Very useful if the
             | population it applies to cares about it being violated
        
               | gizajob wrote:
               | The Magna Carta was meant to formalise that spec 800
               | years ago.
        
               | exe34 wrote:
               | I suspect there is a hysteresis loop - it has to get
               | really bad before the population changes phase.
        
         | bogdan wrote:
         | I'm sorry but how is this relevant? Or did you just recently
         | learn this and thought it's "interesting" to share?
        
           | Pet_Ant wrote:
           | They want to have rigorous well-indexed system for the people
           | in a country, when the system of the country isn't rigorous.
           | 
           | When your constitution is ad hoc, it seems only fair that
           | everything else is. Start with the foundation before
           | formalising everything else.
        
         | lifetimerubyist wrote:
         | How's that piece of paper working out for you guys right now?
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | their goal is to expand the orwellian spying panopticon, not to
         | codify people's rights.
        
       | everyday7732 wrote:
       | This line was particluarly interesting:
       | 
       | "... Labour MPs are growing increasingly frustrated with the
       | government's U-turns.
       | 
       | Some had already been wary of defending controversial government
       | policies to their constituents because they feared that the
       | policy would inevitably be reversed."
       | 
       | which implies that the MPs are openly admitting that they don't
       | state their personal opinions, merely parrot the party line, but
       | are frustrated when they are required to abruptly change the
       | things they claim to believe in.
       | 
       | What a farce. Members of parliament should have their OWN fucking
       | views about things, and defend or debate those views on behalf of
       | the people they represent.
        
         | OgsyedIE wrote:
         | Those people get deselected by the NEC.
        
         | 9JollyOtter wrote:
         | That why they have party whips and threaten deselections for
         | people that have their own ideas.
         | 
         | Many of these people would not be in Parliament if they weren't
         | selected by the party. Most people vote for a party, not the
         | MP. So why would it benefit the MP to have their own views when
         | they can just parrot whatever they've been told to? It doesn't.
        
           | throwaway85825 wrote:
           | The most ridiculous thing about UK politics is that there is
           | zero residency requirement.
        
             | 9JollyOtter wrote:
             | There is always something in the UK where I find out
             | something utterly ridiculous is allowed, yet they are quite
             | happy to legislate thousands of other things.
        
       | TacticalCoder wrote:
       | Seen that the entire plan of the UK atm apparently relies on
       | bringing in as many illegals as possible in the shortest time
       | possible, I don't see how that'd be compatible with a mandatory
       | digital ID.
       | 
       | So I'm not surprised to see this trashed.
        
         | gizajob wrote:
         | This will lead to Reform and then to Reform Pro Max with extra
         | ICE, which should then combat that issue.
        
         | vablings wrote:
         | Just curious where you are seeing this? Illegal immigration
         | figures are down under the current government
        
         | exe34 wrote:
         | > Seen that the entire plan of the UK atm apparently relies on
         | bringing in as many illegals as possible in the shortest time
         | possible
         | 
         | Could you say a bit more about this? I didn't find it in their
         | manifesto from the last election. Is it a new policy? Do you
         | know which minister is responsible?
        
         | blitzar wrote:
         | You are thinking of the party that was previously in
         | government.
        
           | Flere-Imsaho wrote:
           | It's completely in the current gov's power to stop all
           | illegal immigration and to stem the flow of legal
           | immigration. For whatever reason I cannot fathom, they do not
           | enact that power.
           | 
           | At some point we have to stop blaming the previous
           | government.
        
       | elric wrote:
       | When I lived in the UK in the early-mid 00s, I was really
       | confused by how much of a digital backwater it was. Opening a
       | bank account required several months of utility bills (on paper!)
       | with my name as "proof of address". Taxes were paper only. Paper
       | payslips. No concept of interacting with the government in any
       | digital way. No concept of government ID other than a full size
       | passport, which made the many silly age checks in pubs and stores
       | rather laughable.
       | 
       | I'm sure things have gotten better, but I'll never forget how
       | backwards it all seemed coming from puny Belgium.
        
         | gizajob wrote:
         | Hmm try Italy or Spain...
        
           | calgoo wrote:
           | Spain was finally forced to improve some of their systems
           | during covid. Its still a bit of a mess, but at least you can
           | do some things online now.
        
             | 9JollyOtter wrote:
             | When I lived in Spain getting my NIE number was a pain as
             | the office was open for 2 hours in the morning. Luckily I
             | was with an English person that spoke Spanish that helped
             | me fill out the forms.
        
         | 9JollyOtter wrote:
         | > No concept of government ID other than a full size passport,
         | which made the many silly age checks in pubs and stores rather
         | laughable.
         | 
         | Memorising your Birthday to be 2 years earlier to fool the pub
         | bouncer was what we all did.
        
         | vablings wrote:
         | Things for sure are better, once you are kinda on the digital
         | ladder with various things its ok. Drivers License, NI Number,
         | Passport and Proof of address documents are all fairly trivial
         | to get
         | 
         | Payslips are fully automated and there is a nice HMRC app that
         | lets you see your PAYE income. Also, the NHS app is not half
         | bad, you can mostly access any previous information but its not
         | always fully populated due to a mixed bag of records
        
         | laurencerowe wrote:
         | The UK has had internet filing for self-assessment taxes since
         | July 2000 [1]. I started doing freelance web consulting around
         | them while at university and filed online. It was considerably
         | easier than filing my taxes in the US is now! (Most people in
         | the UK don't have to file taxes at all since the right amount
         | of tax is withheld by their employer.)
         | 
         | While the UK might not have been the first, there was a big
         | push to move government services online over the 2000s. I think
         | this may have been easier than in other countries since so many
         | services were run by post rather than requiring you to go to a
         | particular government office.
         | 
         | Opening a bank account became much more difficult in the early
         | 2000s because of the money laundering/terrorism financing
         | legislation. It became a real pain for international students
         | when I worked in a student union back then.
         | 
         | The liberal resistance to ID cards in Britain was more
         | reasonable before it became required to prove your identity so
         | often. Not having an ID card has become a bit of a pain now,
         | especially for elderly people who may not have a driving
         | licence or current passport.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fascinating-facts-
         | about-s...
        
       | jph wrote:
       | I'm in the affected group because I'm a US citizen working in the
       | UK. There's much more to the story because the UK has many
       | digital ID aspects already in place-- such as for work visas and
       | residence permits-- but these not coordinated into a whole.
       | 
       | What I experienced last year was many digital verification steps
       | that were all required: open a UK bank account, sign up for a UK
       | phone number, secure a UK residential postal address, apply for
       | UK right-to-rent codes, generate a UK national insurance number,
       | file for UK healthcare registration, and more.
       | 
       | Each step had different digital workflows and UI/UX. To traverse
       | all these steps took hundreds of hours and a couple months wall
       | time.
       | 
       | Many steps had catch-22s. The UK bank account needed a UK phone
       | number, while the UK phone company needed a UK bank account. The
       | UK payroll company needed a permanent residence, while the UK
       | landlord needed UK payroll stubs. None of the steps had a quick
       | simple way to digitally verify my UK work visa.
       | 
       | IMHO federation could be a big help here, such as for government
       | agencies and government-approved businesses doing opt-in data
       | sharing and ideally via APIs. For example, imagine each step can
       | share its relevant information with other steps. This could make
       | things more efficient, more accurate, and ideally more secure.
        
         | godzillabrennus wrote:
         | People who vote for more government are people who rarely deal
         | with government.
        
           | coredev_ wrote:
           | And I guess people who vote for less government are people
           | who never have dealt with good and efficient government, only
           | government destoyed by people who don't want it to work or
           | lobbying companies.
           | 
           | Where I live e-government is super smooth, like having your
           | taxes filed for you - all you have to do is to sign it with
           | your e-id. E-id is, as I see it, actually saftey for me as a
           | citizen, with delegated security so that the SP only get
           | verification and the info actually needed from the IDP.
           | 
           | Although requiring it for porn is just sick.
        
             | cadamsdotcom wrote:
             | Sorry people are downvoting you, I guess some folks think
             | the downvote is for people they disagree with. But this is
             | my experience too: government that works and is smooth and
             | efficient can turn one into a fan.
        
             | 9JollyOtter wrote:
             | The government is famously dysfunctional in the UK. It is
             | unlikely to get any better. So most of us would rather they
             | do nothing than make the situation worse.
             | 
             | I've lived in other countries in Europe and their
             | government isn't that smooth either. In fact the UK was
             | much better than Spain when I lived there, though things
             | may have changed now.
        
         | graemep wrote:
         | I am a bit confused about this. Is that a list of things you
         | needed to open a bank account? Or a list of things for which
         | you needed to show ID?
         | 
         | I am not sure a government digital ID would help with dealing
         | with businesses.
         | 
         | Right to rent is a stupid and useless bit of bureaucracy which
         | encourages racism - its much easier for landlords not to rent
         | to someone who looks or sounds foreign, especially at the
         | bottom end of the market where people might not have passports.
         | 
         | Edit: I should have said something like discrimination on
         | grounds of race or national origin. The landlords are not
         | motivated by a desire to discriminate, but to avoid have to
         | carry out checks, especially if they do not understand the
         | requirements with regard to visas - easier just to let to
         | someone who (they think!) is definitely British.
        
         | nephihaha wrote:
         | "There's much more to the story because the UK has many digital
         | ID aspects already in place-- such as for work visas and
         | residence permits-- but these not coordinated into a whole."
         | 
         | They're determined to bring it in and will attempt to
         | gradually. You need an ID for so many things in the UK so it is
         | a lie in some ways.
        
           | 9JollyOtter wrote:
           | I haven't shown my photocard drivers license in literally
           | years to anyone, other than renewing it.
           | 
           | I normally just use Birthcert and Utility bills.
        
         | mytailorisrich wrote:
         | The point is that the government tried to sell this as helping
         | against illegal immigration by enabling effective right to work
         | checks and this was a blatant lie since it would not change
         | anything: right to work checks are already carried put amd
         | legal immigrants have eVisa that are checked online by
         | employers.
         | 
         | It is obvious that the government is being deceitful. Noone
         | wants ID cards except the Tony Blair Institute.
        
         | aberoham wrote:
         | Can relate. The UK electronic eVisa app was pure garbage. The
         | major redeeming feature of the UK civil service and the various
         | regulatory quagmires is that they're effectively open source.
         | You (or Claude) can read through their practice manuals or
         | policies and find a work-around. But my goodness is it annoying
         | until you figure that out. Another fascinating bit is you may
         | think the various departments are connected but they are not.
         | The nice looking UK Government Digital Service (GDS) Design
         | System gives everything a veneer of connected competence, but
         | under the bonnet, that slick UI signal is as reliable as a posh
         | accent. Don't become a migrant if you don't have to.
        
         | solumunus wrote:
         | It's not a bad idea necessarily, unfortunately it would just be
         | a massive political own goal in the current environment.
        
         | altacc wrote:
         | I moved from the UK to Scandinavia, where there is a federated
         | ID (BankID) that you use to access pretty much everything and
         | it removes all this complexity that the UK has. I can't imagine
         | life without such an easy system. One of the downsides is that
         | there's a bit of a catch-22 to getting an ID in the first place
         | but once you've managed that it's done.
         | 
         | A key difference is the relationship between the people and the
         | government and the motivation behind creating a federated ID.
         | There's definitely an element of governmental monitoring to the
         | Scandinavian model but the relationship with the government is
         | less adversarial than in the UK.
        
       | graemep wrote:
       | They are still trying to bring in digital ID. There are multiple
       | attempts to push it. They still plan to try to push it as a
       | convenience. They also plan a digital ID for children.
        
         | shevy-java wrote:
         | It can be called digital fascism. Everyone gets monitored now.
         | Big government loves you.
        
         | vablings wrote:
         | Not sure what invoking children here does for the sake of
         | argumentation. Digital ID is not bad; the issue is the
         | implementation of digital ID that will cause huge issues such
         | as giving billions of pounds to friends of MPs
        
           | graemep wrote:
           | > Not sure what invoking children here does for the sake of
           | argumentation.
           | 
           | Because by requiring children, but not adults, to have
           | digital ID as part of a much larger (and pretty terrible) law
           | that is already close to being passed and disguising it as a
           | safeguarding measure they are sneaking it in for some people
           | AND getting the next generation used to it.
           | 
           | > Digital ID is not bad;
           | 
           | The opposition to digital ID is largely coming from people
           | who do think Digital ID is bad.
        
             | vablings wrote:
             | Digital ID is a very wishy-washy concept that has been co-
             | opted by various groups to make strong statements about
             | government overreach. If you want to make criticism you
             | should make narrower statements, for example.
             | 
             | A centralized ID system that can be used to safely verify
             | the authenticity of a presenting party is good!
             | 
             | If that system can be used to track this person in more
             | invasive ways than already possible with IMSI catchers,
             | credit cards and facial recognition that is bad!
             | 
             | People think Digital ID is bad and this everlasting evil
             | concept that will further make the most surveilled country
             | in the world an Orwellian nightmare overnight which is a
             | dramatization. The devil is really in the details here and
             | depending on what flavors of implementation determines the
             | "goodness"
        
           | nephihaha wrote:
           | Digital ID alone is not the endgoal but a system that will
           | encompass every aspect of people's lives, and can be switched
           | off in an instant.
        
             | vablings wrote:
             | I heard the same hogwash over covid and vaccine passports,
             | it didn't happen.
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | While that is great, the lobbyists who disguise as politicians
       | who tried to sneak this in, need to permanently leave ALL
       | affiliations to politics. Politics right now in the UK is just a
       | lobbyist sleaze fest.
        
       | curiousgal wrote:
       | It's almost comical how bad this Labour government is...
        
         | indy wrote:
         | They became so bad so quickly and now all that's happening is
         | more and more people swearing never to vote Labour again. This
         | is leaving the door open for Reform at the next election.
        
           | 9JollyOtter wrote:
           | They won't be any better. Farage is ultimately untrustworthy.
        
       | nephihaha wrote:
       | Now they will just make it very hard for those who opt out.
        
       | nprateem wrote:
       | A useless government lacking any sort of leadership. At a stroke
       | this would destroy illegal immigration if it was mandatory and
       | tied to receiving benefits.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2026-01-14 23:01 UTC)