[HN Gopher] Influencers and OnlyFans models are dominating U.S. ...
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Influencers and OnlyFans models are dominating U.S. O-1 visa
requests
Author : bookofjoe
Score : 310 points
Date : 2026-01-13 16:47 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| Havoc wrote:
| OK I've got to know...which of these does OF fall under
|
| >extraordinary ability in the sciences, education, business or
| athletics
| tom_ wrote:
| That's for only one of the subtypes of visa. The official site
| (https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-
| states/temporary...) mentions a few more options, which would
| probably turn out to cover onlyfans if you get the right sort
| of professional advice:
|
| > The O-1 nonimmigrant visa is for the individual who possesses
| extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education,
| business, or athletics, or who has a demonstrated record of
| extraordinary achievement in the motion picture or television
| industry and has been recognized nationally or internationally
| for those achievements
| forkerenok wrote:
| I can easily see how 3 of the 4 categories mentioned here could
| fit.
| cvhc wrote:
| That's O-1A. O-1B: Individuals with an extraordinary ability in
| the arts or extraordinary achievement in motion picture or
| television industry.
| tommy_axle wrote:
| My guess is business (if they are doing well on the platform)
| yojat661 wrote:
| Webcam athletics
| Avicebron wrote:
| Has to be athletics right?
| bad_haircut72 wrote:
| If you ever get a chance with one of these women you'll learn
| its all of them
| magicalhippo wrote:
| I've seen some bedroom activities that I would definitely
| categorize as requiring extraordinary athletic abilities...
| areoform wrote:
| Such articles are interesting because they're tacit disapproval,
| but I would argue that this use of the O-1 is the most American
| way to use it.
|
| There's a reason why Hollywood became the Earth's center of
| cultural gravity post-WW2,
| https://goldenglobes.com/articles/exiles-and-emigres-hollywo...
|
| You may argue that these people aren't of such import, but I
| would beg to differ. This is the future of culture. These people
| shape the culture that the young people around you consume. They
| create the memes of six-seven-ification.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| I have no judgement on these models. Everyone can make money
| through legal means as they deem fit.
|
| But at the same time, the immigration system historically
| penalized anyone who engages in prostitution and actively
| denied entry to people found to be engaged in it. There is an
| explicit question about this in all immigration forms. Which is
| why it's surprising that O-1 visas are being awarded to
| OnlyFans models. Maybe OF isn't prostitution according to how
| it's being interpreted, but it's very surprising.
| palata wrote:
| If OnlyFans is not prostitution (and in my understanding it
| is not), then I don't see why it is surprising?
| nemomarx wrote:
| how would it be interpreted as prostitution? the close
| analogue is porn stars right
| gampleman wrote:
| Porn comes from porne, Greek for prostitute. So at least
| etymologically (and arguably logically as both involve sex
| for money) porn is prostitution.
|
| If that's accepted, then I find it hard not to also accept
| OF as a form of prostitution.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| Well Sweden sure thinks it could be a form of prostitution.
| While Some form of OF is similar to pornography (pre
| recorded shows) other is similar to prostitution and
| therefore illegal (paying for custom live sexual acts).
| Obviously Sweden isn't US, but it's not as clear as "OF is
| just porn".
|
| https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-
| monitor/2025-06-10/swe...
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Why should prostitutes not be allowed to immigrate to the US?
| rurban wrote:
| Because their abilities are not in the extraordinary
| artistic abilities category. It's not Hollywood, it's
| Florida.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| That is beyond my pay grade. I'm just stating how the
| immigration system has worked historically.
| areoform wrote:
| Disclaimer: I don't mean this comment as an insult to you or
| anyone else here. It's meant to be slightly tongue in cheek.
|
| I hate to be that person, but the fact that so many people on
| HN think OF is prostitution is revealing of the site's
| demographics (i.e. older). It is, as some may put it, boomer
| thinking.
|
| You're misunderstanding what these people - esports athletes,
| successful streamers, influencers, OF models etc - actually
| do. They create and maintain parasocial relationships.
|
| The point isn't just the gameplay or nudes / sex videos or
| commentary. For e.g., I (and a bunch of other young women for
| some reason) love to watch Temet
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go8EJbNaIHg while working.
| It's the way they reflect back to their audience and allow
| them to become a part of their performance.
|
| It's kind of like the place where everyone knows your name?
| These are digital third places and the content (whether it be
| neon blue bunny hopping characters or a graphic video of
| someone having sex) is a mechanism for bonding / a part of
| the activity. Kind of like the alcohol at the pub, I suppose.
|
| That's where real influence comes from in this age.
|
| If you think OF is prostitution, you're fundamentally
| misunderstanding what will drive power and culture in this
| century.
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| There's a strong parasocial element to traditional
| prostitution, although it's used more by high-end "escorts"
| who deliberately cultivate conversational skills. So none
| of this is new.
|
| "My default strategy was this: I would invite the man in,
| we'd sit down and talk for a while. I'd establish physical
| contact in the conversation by touching his hand when
| laughing at a joke, or crossing my leg so it bumped into
| his. I would become increasingly charmed, utterly
| fascinated by his life, and I asked him to explain to me
| concepts I already knew (remember, they like you smart in
| order to validate their identity as a man who likes smart
| women, and they still love teaching you things)."
|
| https://knowingless.com/2021/10/19/becoming-a-whorelord-
| the-...
| etblg wrote:
| > I hate to be that person, but the fact that so many
| people on HN think OF is prostitution is revealing of the
| site's demographics (i.e. older). It is, as some may put
| it, boomer thinking.
|
| Well it's not non-existent either, there are a fair number
| of onlyfans models (and also general actors in the field of
| pornography who do the same) who do escorting on the side.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| "There are a fair number of people in X field who do Y on
| the side" is a completely and radically different things
| than "X is a subset of Y."
| darth_avocado wrote:
| It's not the boomer thinking, it's just mostly talking
| about semantics. Prostitution is defined as engaging in
| sexual activity in exchange for payment, which is frowned
| upon in the immigration system.
|
| Is being in a sugar daddy/baby relationship a form
| prostitution? Is paying money for a custom private show
| online where the OF model performs all kinds of sexual acts
| prostitution? Does prostitution require physical contact?
| Thats the question of semantics that I am curious about
| re:immigration.
|
| And these questions aren't "Boomer mentality". There is
| precedent in asking for clear definitions. Sweden makes a
| distinction between pre recorded only fans work, which is
| akin to pornography and custom shows which are
| criminalized, akin to prostitution.
| https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-
| monitor/2025-06-10/swe...
| ixtli wrote:
| Idk if you mean it literally but conflating the sort of
| prostitution they ask about on immigration forms with taking
| naked pictures of yourself seems very wrong.
| jjmarr wrote:
| If one of America's main exports is culture, why would you ban
| factor inputs?
|
| They're also not fungible and extremely mobile. People get
| attached to specific OF stars and the medium inherently
| requires remote work. So it's an inherently global labour force
| that protectionism won't help. American OF models won't
| magically make more money if you ban immigration unless you
| also ban cultural imports.
|
| The government isn't displacing local talent by importing OF
| models and gets tax dollars for essentially doing nothing.
| Those tax dollars pay for schools/hospitals/etc.
|
| OF also skews towards young, unmarried women, which balances
| the gender surplus of unmarried men that generally tries to
| immigrate. Since they're young, they also have more
| productivity before drawing on benefits like Medicare or Social
| Security.
|
| By any objective standard OF models are the ideal migrant.
| password54321 wrote:
| ...I get this is HN but come on. It is just modern day
| JasminCam for lonely men that are being exploited through
| parasocial relationships. It is the opposite of productive.
| You just have society feeding on itself.
| stackghost wrote:
| >It is just modern day JasminCam for lonely men that are
| being exploited through parasocial relationships. It is the
| opposite of productive.
|
| You can make all the moral judgments you like, but the fact
| is: They're making money either way, and then spending that
| money in their local communities. They can spend that money
| (and pay taxes on it) in the US or not.
|
| It's no different economically than a musician or an actor
| doing the same.
| password54321 wrote:
| It was not a moral judgement.
| drdaeman wrote:
| > exploited
|
| Isn't that a derogatory stereotype? Aren't those men (and
| women and other folks) as "exploited" as a reader of a book
| or a player of a game, who understands they're about to be
| a part of a fantasy but willingly suspend the disbelief for
| a short while?
|
| It's only exploitation if this suspension of disbelief is
| artificially prolonged in nefarious way, with a self-
| reinforcing fantasy so the person loses touch with the
| reality and spends increasingly unhealthy amounts of time
| in a fantasy, or otherwise get conditioned and start to
| exhibit addiction-like behaviors that aren't in their best
| long-term interests.
|
| That happens (every entertainment industry has its whales),
| but saying it's the norm (rather than a pathological
| extremity) is sort of stigmatizing.
| password54321 wrote:
| Parasocial relationships are inherently exploitive.
| nozzlegear wrote:
| Are all transactions on OF inherently a parasocial
| relationship? If a dude wants to jerk his schmeat to
| somebody he thinks is attractive, and pays for access to
| the media without otherwise engaging, is that parasocial?
| password54321 wrote:
| You could do that for free. Most are obviously looking
| for more.
|
| It kind of sounds like you are trying to justify whatever
| it is you are doing, in which case you do you. I don't
| actually care what you do and neither should you care
| what I think.
| nozzlegear wrote:
| > You could do that for free. Most are obviously looking
| for more.
|
| And everyone can use Pornhub for free, yet Pornhub still
| makes money on their premium subscriptions. Are those
| also parasocial relationships? Is all porn just a big
| parasocial relationship?!
|
| > It kind of sounds like you are trying to justify
| whatever it is you are doing, in which case you do you.
|
| You know I thought about putting the obligatory "I don't
| use OF" in my first comment, but felt it wouldn't be
| necessary. I see that it was; by the way have you stopped
| beating your wife?
| lo_zamoyski wrote:
| It should be stigmatized.
|
| Consent does not bless immoral acts or neutralize damage.
| A person who takes a drug voluntarily is still being
| harmed by it. It causes changes in the consumer whether
| he likes it or not. Causality does not care about your
| consent.
|
| (And to address your analogy to books, the content of a
| work of fiction also matters. Reading bad books isn't
| good for your mind either. But literary fiction at least
| has the potential to be good. The genre isn't
| categorically bad.)
|
| And porn is addictive. Porn addiction is extremely
| widespread and afflicts mostly young men. Porn's ubiquity
| and the easy with which it can be accessed has created a
| situation that did not exist before, and from a young
| age. And not only is it addictive, but it does real
| psychological damage to these consumers, creating what
| some call "porn brain". It is an excellent method for
| producing sexually-crippled creeps and incels unable -
| and even uninterested, given the nature of their
| "fantasy" - to have healthy relationships with real human
| beings, and the stats corroborate this.
|
| It is an incredibly twisted and deranging vice. It
| destroys individuals and has a destructive impact on
| society as a whole.
| drdaeman wrote:
| > A person who takes a drug voluntarily is still being
| harmed by it. It causes changes in the consumer whether
| he likes it or not.
|
| I'm afraid you're oversimplifying it. If only things
| would be this simple. They just never are.
|
| Every experience causes changes (it's the whole point).
| And every stimulating experience has a potential to skew
| your behaviors towards having more of it. Some more, some
| less, of course, but anything can become a passion and
| get unhealthy so.
|
| There's this fine distinction between someone who does
| something now and then, without significant impairment to
| their decision-making abilities that cause over-favoring
| such actions, and those who fail to notice it in time and
| become overtly obsessed with something.
|
| It's not about what you do - you can be watching porn or
| going hiking (or whatever most people would naively deem
| "good") - anything can become unhealthy.
|
| I think I understand your point, though. Indeed,
| pornography consumption nature is intimate and that
| leaves less opportunities for feedback and self-
| introspection. That is, noticing the point it becomes
| more of an obsession. However, dismissing it under a
| simple "porn is bad" (a tempting idea) is short-sighted
| by dismissing any nuances, and also harmful - just in
| different ways (through stigmatization).
| zer00eyz wrote:
| There is a reason why "the oldest profession" is a polite
| idiom for prostitution.
|
| Calling it "parasocial", doesn't change what it is, but the
| technology as a mediator does. And society has been feeding
| on itself since we moved past hunter gatherers.
| gowld wrote:
| This seems more like importing culture. These content
| creators aren't coming to work or American creators, they are
| coming to America to create their content for American
| audiences or using American resources.
| ericmcer wrote:
| Influencers as the future of culture is not great. Hollywood
| had a ton of issues but it at least had some... class? If you
| watch an interview with Mr. Beast or other famous influencers
| they are concerningly ignorant, have little self-awareness and
| a child-like approach to reality. It makes total sense given
| these are teenagers who were lauded with fame for entertaining
| other teenagers on social media.
|
| I watched the Mr. Beast episode of David Letterman's show, and
| I had no expectations but figured he must have some charisma as
| the most watched youtube person. He was unable to explain basic
| concepts, had no self-awareness, and generally seemed detached
| from any sort of reality. It was shocking to think that is who
| is shaping young peoples minds.
| gowld wrote:
| > Hollywood had a ton of issues but it at least had some...
| class?
|
| Hollywood took a bribe from the tobacco industry to make
| smoking "cool" and infect our nation with cigarettes.
|
| > have little self-awareness
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mpUxn7NybY : "A big
| opportunity for us is that there are no gatekeepers. There's
| no one I have to convince to let me do things."
|
| :-)
| tartoran wrote:
| > Hollywood took a bribe from the tobacco industry to make
| smoking "cool" and infect our nation with cigarettes.
|
| I think the whole world took up smoking because of
| Hollywood.
| timeon wrote:
| For actors it was "took a bribe" for influencers it is
| modus operandi.
| terminalshort wrote:
| And how is this is different from movie stars?
| globular-toast wrote:
| A lot of movie stars seem very intelligent and quite
| conscientious people to me. The directors even more so.
| ryandrake wrote:
| I think things like "classiness," "grace," and "tact" are all
| but dead, both in Hollywood and across the population.
| Everyone seems to be mentally teenagers, but in middle-age
| bodies.
| thorum wrote:
| > Hollywood had a ton of issues but it at least had some...
| class?
|
| It looked that way because they had media training and their
| public personas were carefully managed, with staged
| interviews and media appearances. Behind the scenes, it's a
| different story.
|
| Influencers are rewarded for seeming authentic. Mr Beast
| coming across badly in a traditional TV interview just makes
| his audience think he's more real.
| Sammi wrote:
| Yes you're describing class.
| thorum wrote:
| I would disagree. If you have no class in private, you
| have no class.
| boelboel wrote:
| "but it at least had some... class" Not if you'd have asked
| the WASPs at the time, they very much looedk down on
| Hollywood. Saw it as vulgar and beneath them for many of the
| same reasons people dislike MrBeast. The 'class' only came
| afterwards.
| Animats wrote:
| The movie industry was, for much of the 20th century, split
| between production in Hollywood and finance in New York.
| Probably the last gasp of that was Marvel, where, for a
| long time, the merch and comic people in New York made the
| final decisions.
| thruway516 wrote:
| 'Class','taste' etc these are all very subjective. One could
| argue that Mr Beast built all of his fame from scratch and
| didnt have it handed to him or having to sleep with some
| powerful gatekeeper - something you can't say about all your
| 'classy' hollywood stars. If you go back a century you can
| probably find people kvetching about the lack of class of
| these new fangled movie people compared to the theater stars
| of their day (who actually had to know how to act)
| mikkupikku wrote:
| Hollywood actors being vapid idiots is a trope, or rather
| reality, as old as Hollywood. Every time they go on Letterman
| they have to carefully follow the script written for them to
| avoid embarrassing themselves and the industry. And they
| often fail at that.
|
| BTW, actors are very often prostitutes. Have been since
| ancient times and the association has stuck. Mediterranean
| yachts are packed full of C-lister actresses/hookers. Not to
| mention most of them get jobs by sleeping with producers,
| which is just an indirect form of prostitution.
| lo_zamoyski wrote:
| The argument from cinema is flaky and a moral critique of
| Hollywood's influence is unavoidable. But we're talking about
| porn here, not cinema. This is decadence and depravity. How can
| you confuse cinema with the construction of an international
| whoredom? The numbers are also incommensurate.
|
| And TikTok is the antithesis of culture. It's consumerist
| rubbish that encourages a vapid, thoughtless, and illiterate
| consumption of shallow material. The article even mentions the
| monetary motivations of those posting. Any gimmick will do just
| to make a buck.
|
| Let us not relativize culture. If you relativize it, then your
| argument falls apart anyway. Authentic culture serves human
| beings. It involves learning from, developing, deepening,
| refining, and correcting what came before. Trash content
| doesn't do this. It is cultural poison. It ruins people's minds
| and wrecks society.
|
| This use of O-1 visas is merely another sign of the downward
| trajectory of our polity. We are following Plato's description
| of social decline perfectly. Perhaps aesthetically, it is
| fitting that Trump is the poster boy of this abuse of O-1
| visas, but he is at best an emanation and a catalyst of broader
| and deeper social and cultural processes. In the absence of a
| minimum of sound moral authority, you can expect the poison
| that lurks in the mud to hatch out and begin to dominate the
| polis.
| NickC25 wrote:
| >And TikTok is the antithesis of culture. It's consumerist
| rubbish that encourages a vapid, thoughtless, and illiterate
| consumption of shallow material. The article even mentions
| the monetary motivations of those posting. Any gimmick will
| do just to make a buck.
|
| My brother, you've just described modern American culture
| perfectly.
| testacc74 wrote:
| What's the difference between Hollywood popcorn films and
| corn?
| areoform wrote:
| > Let us not relativize culture. If you relativize it, then
| your argument falls apart anyway. Authentic culture serves
| human beings. It involves learning from, developing,
| deepening, refining, and correcting what came before. Trash
| content doesn't do this. It is cultural poison. It ruins
| people's minds and wrecks society.
|
| The walls of Pompeii beg to differ.
|
| https://pompeiiarchaeologicalpark.com/social-norms-and-
| eroti...
|
| https://mariasorensen.substack.com/p/the-forbidden-erotic-
| ar...
|
| https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/archaeology/a627393.
| ..
|
| I am sure there would have been people at the time decrying
| the creation of pigments and paints as the fall of
| civilization due to "decadence and depravity." Didn't matter
| much, did it?
|
| > We are following Plato's description of social decline
| perfectly
|
| Plato was a wrestler. _Plato would like totally be a gym bro,
| bro._
|
| It has been a while since I've read Republic, but I remember
| Book 8 differently. To quote the IEP,
| Tyranny arises out of democracy when the desire for freedom
| to do what one wants becomes extreme (562b-c). The freedom
| or license aimed at in the democracy becomes so extreme that
| any limitations on anyone's freedom seem unfair. Socrates
| points out that when freedom is taken to such an extreme it
| produces its opposite, slavery (563e-564a). The tyrant comes
| about by presenting himself as a champion of the people
| against the class of the few people who are wealthy
| (565d-566a). The tyrant is forced to commit a number of acts
| to gain and retain power: accuse people falsely, attack his
| kinsmen, bring people to trial under false pretenses, kill
| many people, exile many people, and purport to cancel the
| debts of the poor to gain their support (565e-566a). The
| tyrant eliminates the rich, brave, and wise people in the
| city since he perceives them as threats to his power (567c).
| Socrates indicates that the tyrant faces the dilemma to
| either live with worthless people or with good people who may
| eventually depose him and chooses to live with worthless
| people (567d). The tyrant ends up using mercenaries as his
| guards since he cannot trust any of the citizens (567d-e).
| The tyrant also needs a very large army and will spend the
| city's money (568d-e), and will not hesitate to kill members
| of his own family if they resist his ways (569b-c).
|
| This summary matches my recollection more closely than yours.
| Could you please quote primary sources on what exactly you
| mean by "Plato's description of social decline?"
| seydor wrote:
| But influencers are by default distributed and don't really
| need to be in a single place. Most of their collabs are in
| luxurious venues around the world (Because we live in a world
| worshipping rich stuff but that s another matter)
|
| Plus AI porn is already a thing
| aforwardslash wrote:
| > why Hollywood became the Earth's center of cultural gravity
| post-WW2
|
| The reason why Hollywood even exists is because it was a way of
| escaping the enforcement of patents and royalties. And it is
| easy being the cultural center of the western world when
| everything other cultural-relevant city in the western
| hemisphere is somewhat in ruins. Other than that, the lettering
| is a racist monument of a bygone era.
|
| > You may argue that these people aren't of such import, but I
| would beg to differ
|
| I'm not a US citizen, but lets face it - there is some irony in
| seeing some scientists fleeing for abroad offers, some probably
| deported, and having influencers or glorified strippers
| benefiting from some ill-thought program.
|
| > These people shape the culture that the young people around
| you consume.
|
| Do you have kids? I do. People don't give 2 f** about Hollywood
| or their "stars". Maybe in america. We have our own clowns
| here, and 15 minutes of fame doesn't require being predated on
| by some director (thankfully). My daughter couldn't name a
| single actor even if she wanted to - because movies are
| (mostly) dead, and series are a commodity. And I'm not saying
| this as some weirdo who doesn't own a TV or something - we have
| Disney, SkyShowTime, HBO, Amazon, etc. Its just "kids dont care
| about that anymore".
|
| > They create the memes of six-seven-ification So, do you know
| what that means exactly? Are you a Skrilla's fan? Just asking,
| because from the tone of your response, you seem to have no
| idea of the meaning - just like kids saying "theez nuts" or
| whatever.
| jonahrd wrote:
| I think you misunderstood GP's point, that it's now the
| _influencers_ and social media stars who are shaping culture.
| Not Hollywood or its stars.
| sakopov wrote:
| Man we're making some giant leaps equating early Hollywood
| talent with a bunch of modern day internet hoes.
| RealityVoid wrote:
| Are we? It feels the same just this time you're the old
| person and it's your turn to disapprove instead of being in
| the cultural wave.
| mikkupikku wrote:
| All of the exotic acting talent in the world won't save an
| industry that's forgotten the very basics of how to make a good
| movie.
| superfrank wrote:
| It's funny, early on it says
|
| > The O-1 category includes the O-1A, which is designated for
| individuals with extraordinary ability in the sciences,
| education, business or athletics and the O-1B, reserved for those
| with "extraordinary ability or achievement".
|
| Then later it says
|
| > The O-1B visa, once reserved for Hollywood titans and superstar
| musicians, has evolved over the years.
|
| I understand those two aren't necessarily contradictory, but the
| wording of the first sentence paints a very different mental
| picture than the second one (at least it did for me), especially
| since they throw in the O-1A and then almost exclusively talk
| about people applying for the O-1B after that.
|
| Personally, I don't want the US choosing to give visas to
| influencers over scientists, but if this visa was already being
| heavily used to bring in actors, musicians, and athletes I don't
| see what the hubbub is about. I don't use TikTok or OnlyFans and
| I don't find e-sports entertaining, but I have a hard time
| arguing that a screen actor, Victoria's Secret model, or soccer
| player should be worthy of a visa and a social media star,
| OnlyFans model, or a professional Counter Strike player shouldn't
| is not. It's all just entertainment.
| tonyhart7 wrote:
| basically, US Gov want to tax these ultra rich OnlyFans "model"
|
| that's why they accept so much, the circulation of money would
| bring an enormous currency more than "traditional" job ever
| could
| petterroea wrote:
| I think it's fair to say with the newly evolving markets,
| governments are fighting to house them and tax them
| lanyard-textile wrote:
| Entertainment is an industry :)
|
| It would be unwise to filter out the fun people. We'd all
| become a bunch of unfun nerds.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| Kinda funny this comment is downvoted!
| hamburglar wrote:
| Sir, this is HN. Being an unfun nerd is practically a
| prerequisite.
| verst wrote:
| Speak for yourself :)
| shagie wrote:
| It's the difference in difficulty for the criteria.
|
| https://www.pathlawgroup.com/o1b-visa-requirements/
| For all other candidates, at least three of the following
| criteria must be met in order to qualify for the O1B visa:
| Having been or will be performing a lead or starring role in
| productions or events which have a distinguished national or
| international reputation (as evidenced by critical reviews,
| advertisements, press releases, publications contracts, or
| endorsements) Critical reviews or other published
| material in professional or major trade publications or in the
| major media by or about the applicant which show that the
| applicant has achieved national or international recognition or
| achievements Evidence of performance in a lead,
| starring or critical role for organizations or establishments
| with distinguished reputations Evidence of a record of
| major commercial or critically acclaimed successes in the
| performing arts, as shown by box office receipts or record,
| cassette, compact disk, or video sales Evidence of
| significant recognition for achievements from organizations,
| government agencies, or other recognized experts in the field
| Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other
| significantly high remuneration for services in relation to
| others Other comparable evidence (This category is not
| available for those in the motion picture industry)
|
| For traditional arts, you've gotta be _good_.
|
| For an influencer... some number of anonymous followers?
|
| There are certainly _some_ that would qualify... but it they
| should be held to the same standards as others.
| erichocean wrote:
| Seeing as how it's is trivial to buy followers, that metric
| should be completely abandoned, it's not legitimate.
| smithoc wrote:
| It's maybe slightly less trivial to do, but still
| incredibly common to buy awards, recognition, press
| releases, positive reviews and commentary in publications.
|
| You might be shocked to find out how much the performers
| being written about in magazines or discussed on TV shows
| is a direct line to the production company promoting them.
| Similar for awards.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| Shouldn't be shocked, really. This is exactly what people
| pay PR companies for.
| yencabulator wrote:
| Money is an option, regardless. EB-5 is about $1M invested
| into your own business, 10 people hired.
| barbazoo wrote:
| For a Youtube influencer I can see them meet 3 of the
| criteria by showing their influence on others, money earned,
| Youtube awards for viewership (by Google!). Maybe some
| platforms lend themselves more to being used for this sort of
| evidence than others.
|
| - Evidence of a record of major commercial or critically
| acclaimed successes in the performing arts, as shown by box
| office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video
| sales
|
| - Evidence of significant recognition for achievements from
| organizations, government agencies, or other recognized
| experts in the field
|
| - Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other
| significantly high remuneration for services in relation to
| others
| aiauthoritydev wrote:
| - Youtube awards do not count towards the awards criteria.
| The award has to be for being highly selective not linked
| to mere subscribers.
| zdw wrote:
| I wonder people who have enough karma on the HN leaderboard
| would count...
| falcor84 wrote:
| Wait, HN has a leaderboard?
| reactordev wrote:
| _edit_
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders
| dewey wrote:
| See "Lists" in the footer:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/lists
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| Huh.
| airstrike wrote:
| I never knew when I'd stop posting, but now I have a
| target
| gowld wrote:
| > For traditional arts, you've gotta be good.
|
| > > advertisements, press releases, publications contracts,
| or endorsements
|
| > > box office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or
| video sales
|
| > > Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other
| significantly high remuneration for services in relation to
| others
|
| I fail to see the distinction you are trying to draw.
| Commercial value and celebrity has always been one of the
| metrics of "achievement".
|
| The overall gist is that the visa application should be
| someone who is not easily replaced by an existing local
| worker that can generate similar value.
| shagie wrote:
| The specifics of the law are:
|
| 8 CFR 214.2(o)(3) ( https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/pa
| rt-214/section-214.2#... ) Extraordinary
| ability in the field of arts means distinction.
| Distinction means a high level of achievement in the field
| of arts evidenced by a degree of skill and recognition
| substantially above that ordinarily encountered to the
| extent that a person described as prominent is renowned,
| leading, or well-known in the field of arts.
| Extraordinary ability in the field of science, education,
| business, or athletics means a level of expertise
| indicating that the person is one of the small percentage
| who have arisen to the very top of the field of endeavor.
| Extraordinary achievement with respect to motion picture
| and television productions, as commonly defined in the
| industry, means a very high level of accomplishment in the
| motion picture or television industry evidenced by a degree
| of skill and recognition significantly above that
| ordinarily encountered to the extent that the person is
| recognized as outstanding, notable, or leading in the
| motion picture or television field.
|
| The key is that this is _extraordinary_. About 20,000 O1B
| visas across all fields ( https://www.passright.com/how-
| many-o-1-visas-are-issued-each... )
|
| This isn't a local worker thing (the H visas) but rather
| bringing the best and brightest from across the world to
| the United States.
|
| https://www.hio.harvard.edu/o-1-visa-individuals-
| extraordina...
|
| > The O-1 visa is a temporary work visa designated for
| individuals who have achieved and sustained national or
| international acclaim for extraordinary ability in the
| sciences, arts, education, business or athletics, or
| individuals who have demonstrated a record of extraordinary
| achievement in the motion picture and television
| industries.
|
| > O-1 Extraordinary Ability visa status is reserved for
| those who are among the small percentage of experts who
| have risen to the top of their field. The approval of an
| O-1 petition by the United States Citizenship & Immigration
| Services (USCIS) decides whether an individual qualifies
| for O-1 classification. This classification requires a
| substantial amount of evidence. The O-1 is a very
| complicated visa category subject to high levels of
| scrutiny by the U.S. government. Due to the complexity, the
| O-1 visa is used very infrequently.
| jama211 wrote:
| A lot of youtube influencers are damn good at entertainment
| though, and a lot of "traditional media" entertainers are
| truely horrid. Ever seen a reality tv show? lol
| apparent wrote:
| ...or anything with a laugh track? I tried some show a
| couple years back and was shocked to find that those still
| exist. I discovered it's a great signal of a show that I
| would not want to watch.
| randycupertino wrote:
| There's a boy band, Boy Throb who specifically leveraged visa
| application in their recent content, and their immigration
| attorney advised the visa would be approved when they got
| 1,000,000 followers. They filmed themselves singing and
| dancing outside the US Immigration office to help one of
| their members applications.
|
| Their visa application content is rather silly/absurd:
|
| https://www.tiktok.com/@boy.throb/video/7572273147743980831
|
| https://www.tiktok.com/@boy.throb/video/7567806911580622110
|
| https://www.tiktok.com/@boy.throb/video/7584876341267270943
| cm2187 wrote:
| Well if your audience is larger than an average CNN show, and
| you earn north of a million a year, don't you qualify?
| ndriscoll wrote:
| It's not "just entertainment". We want extraordinary athletes
| and musicians to inspire people and show them what humans are
| capable of. Extraordinary prostitutes are generally not
| inspiring people in the way that most people probably would
| like society to move. It's fine to place different amounts of
| cultural value on these things and not remain neutral about the
| worth of all possible human endeavors.
|
| When someone describes themselves as an "influencer", it is
| entirely appropriate to ask what sort of influence they're
| having, and whether we want that.
| tehlike wrote:
| +1. While supreme court defines the likes of porn as freedom
| of expression, it's a different thing for a country to want
| different kinds of professions to be more common through its
| immigration system.
| jll29 wrote:
| For what it's worth, as a O-1 scientist you have to provide
| evidence that you:
|
| ...are a member of scholarly/professional organizations;
|
| ...have published original research works scientifically and
| internationally (peer reviewed publications);
|
| ...that you have judged the work of others (supervised and/or
| examined Ph.D. candidates);
|
| ...that you have consulted to governments;
|
| ...that you have repeatedly been invited as guest speaker at
| conferences, trade fairs or universities;
|
| ...that you won major international scholarships and awards
| (e.g. best paper awards at conferences, Masters's/doctoral
| scholarships from prestigious universities like Oxford,
| Cambridge, Harvard or MIT;
|
| ...that three referees that are themselves O-1 level
| equivalents deem you worthy of receiving O-1 status;
|
| ...that you are a named inventor on patent applications and
| granted patents;
|
| ...that you have received media coverage;
|
| ...that you abilities are reflected in higher than typical
| compensation/salary/remuneration;
|
| ...that you won major international scholarships and awards
| (e.g. best paper awards at conferences, Masters's/doctoral
| scholarships from prestigious universities like Oxford,
| Cambridge, Harvard or MIT; or
|
| ...that you have published significant works (i.e., works that
| created impact through citations, business creation, or
| software systems using the methods described therein).
|
| Usually, from an official ist similar to the above (which I re-
| wrote from memory here), three out of nine or so checkboxes is
| the lowest bar for an O-1, and if you tick all of them and work
| with a specialist law firm, then it should be a slam dunk; my
| O-1 took about six months from application to grant back in
| 2008 (no payments of any "expediting fees" if they exist were
| made as far as I know).
| volkk wrote:
| At what point do we ever ask ourselves -- "what kind of culture
| do we want to create for the future of our country?" I don't
| think a pro soccer player is comparable to an onlyfans
| contributor. I would much prefer my future kids to be inspired
| by Cristiano Ronaldo than someone baring themselves on camera.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Yet CR7 is routinely photographed baring himself on camera,
| which is one of the reasons he's so popular.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| If what you're just concerned about people "baring themselves
| on camera" then they can continue to do that without
| emigrating to America and it would still affect your culture.
| The internet is global after all.
|
| Also, it's going to take more than a few thousand immigrants
| a year to affect the culture of a country as populous as
| America.
| NewJazz wrote:
| The internet is global, but having folks in our midst who
| make a living that way has more of an effect on our culture
| than if they are just on the internet.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| Why?
|
| I actually worked in the adult industry earlier in my
| career so have a better insight than most. and I can tell
| you that these models are just normal people like you an
| I. They aren't interested in corrupting your children nor
| throwing wild sex parties in public spaces.
| NewJazz wrote:
| Just because they don't have ill intent doesn't mean the
| fact that some of the most highly paid members of our
| society being sex workers sends a message about what kind
| of skills and assets are valuable, and which aren't as
| valuable.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| Unfortunately that ship has already sailed and
| immigration wasn't the reason.
|
| It turns out that American citizens can work in the adult
| industry too and it's not just immigrants who are capable
| of earning money from getting naked on camera. ;)
| NewJazz wrote:
| Isn't that argument just a form of the sunk cost fallacy?
| hnlmorg wrote:
| Only if you demonise the adult entertainment industry,
| which I wasn't.
| NewJazz wrote:
| That's a non sequiter. You said the "ship has sailed", so
| we shouldn't attempt to reset norms.
| volkk wrote:
| i mean you said it yourself, the internet is global. those
| few thousand can have impressions of hundreds of millions.
| whether they do their cam shows abroad or local matters
| little. it's the inherent incentivization approved by a
| government that leads to deeper cultural erosion. if you're
| in a poor country with no access to education, and your
| only way into the US is porn, then that's what will
| ultimately win, rather than incentivizing higher education,
| etc. And before an argument is made that this will just be
| a way to get in and then those folks will go and seek PHDs
| and be productive members of society--i have a bridge to
| sell you.
| wredcoll wrote:
| It worked for melania!
| t-3 wrote:
| Sex sells and everybody knows that. Why should the
| government use antiquated-at-best moral codes to
| discriminate against people who will increase the global
| influence of the country? Cultural exportation and
| exploitation have been key to US soft power for nearly a
| century.
| volkk wrote:
| crack also sells, amongst many other things that are
| inherently horrible for broad modern society.
|
| > Why should the government use antiquated-at-best moral
| codes to discriminate against people who will increase
| the global influence of the country
|
| this is a very loaded statement that assumes that
| everyone is in agreement that proliferating and rewarding
| cam models is some kind of inherent good. there's nothing
| antiquated morally with simply not rewarding it. i'm not
| stating to ban it outright. there's always use in it at
| the long tail of society
| aforwardslash wrote:
| what is the difference?
| inanutshellus wrote:
| The other replies to this show a form of argumentation that's
| always fascinated me.
|
| You say "We should encourage X over Y" and the retorts are
| * "Y will still exist" * "Y can still be encouraged
| separately" * "You should tell me the difference
| between X and Y" * "Hey, I found an X that sometimes
| acts vaguely similar to Y!"
|
| None directly disagree with the original point, but they do
| _imply_ fault in the original reasoning without providing any
| proof or requiring any effort.
|
| The third one is a classic, the _straw man_. A concise
| implication of error in which a good-faith response would be
| long-winded and boring comparatively.
|
| To what end?
|
| What are they hoping to get out of disagreeing with someone
| trying to encouraging our future culture to be one of
| relative wholesomeness?
|
| ... Why take the time out of one's day to say "well...
| encouraging X is great and all but you know what's better?
| passive-aggressively working against anyone that suggests
| it."?
| volkk wrote:
| it's low iq pedantry/contrarianism that pervades the tech
| industry that i refuse to engage with. it's exactly the
| same people that will bikeshed every feature into the
| abyss. i agree and appreciate your sentiment.
| labcomputer wrote:
| It is disappointing that it is so easy to bamboozle HNers
| with a straw man argument.
|
| The original poster was clearly not making an analogy
| between professional soccer and only fans creators.
|
| To be explicit, the comparisons were:
|
| Cinematic actors -> TikTok creators
|
| Victoria's Secret model -> only fans creator
|
| Pro soccer -> esports
|
| I fail to see how the culture of our country will be
| negatively impacted by any of those changes. Comparing
| Cristiano Renaldo to OnlyFans is a straw man because that
| specific comparison was never suggested, except by the
| "rebuttal"
| volkk wrote:
| I don't believe the rigidity of the comparisons matter
| within the broad context of my point. Regardless of
| whether OP didn't directly compare pro soccer to OF, the
| point is that allowing the degradation of expectations of
| Visas will only incentivize low effort crap. And yes, one
| can sit here and argue all day that OF fans, or TikTok
| creators are the same thing as Victorias secret models or
| Cinematic actors (and I would argue that's far from true)
| but I think most of us can all feel societal erosion
| happening and the decline of average IQs and the fact
| that a huge generation of growing young adults can barely
| read. Let's not pretend this has nothing to do with
| multiple epidemics like porn addiction, gambling, and
| general disregard of trying to better yourself because
| 90% of people are using 80% of their days staring at said
| TikTok creators
| wredcoll wrote:
| > but I think most of us can all feel societal erosion
| happening and the decline of average IQs and the fact
| that a huge generation of growing young adults can barely
| read. Let's not pretend this has nothing to do with
| multiple epidemics like porn addiction, gambling, and
| general disregard of trying to better yourself because
| 90% of people are using 80% of their days staring at said
| TikTok creators
|
| None of this is true, but boy, it sure does feel good to
| believe.
|
| I wish you, and people in general, would be more willing
| to look for something like truth instead of whatever
| feels good at the moment.
| volkk wrote:
| pointless comment that doesn't say anything. but, i do
| wish i could live in the imaginary world you live in
| ryandrake wrote:
| I think before we suggest whether policy is good or bad,
| we need to agree on the meaning of vague terms like
| "societal erosion." What about society is eroding? You
| mention IQ and literacy. What about tolerance, open-
| mindedness, compassion, equality, financial success...
| Some of these things are going up and some are going
| down. Are there other dimension to "societal erosion?"
| volkk wrote:
| i do think it's important to define what a healthy
| society looks like, but I'm going to guess everyone will
| have a very different answer. It's a topic that likely
| doesn't have any kind of straightforward response with
| unanimous agreement.
|
| I would argue that beyond basics like food, shelter and
| protection of human rights, we should strive for more
| noble pursuits as society. I'm not even religious
| whatsoever, but I think the proliferation of certain
| vices like sex/gambling/drugs is probably a net negative
| for society. They certainly have their roles in the long
| tail, but overall a society that is caught up in rampant
| dopamine chasing is a distracted, doomed society. We
| should always be yearning. We should be paving a road
| that is a better one for our future generations. Societal
| erosion is creating short term profit/happiness at the
| expense of long term thinking. America has become the
| king of this. You can see it everywhere, from the types
| of businesses people create (e.g pyramid schemes in the
| form of courses, or the shovel makers that create
| businesses to proliferate said pyramid schemes) to what
| is currently valued by the growing generation. I can keep
| going and going, but I'll leave it here. I hope I
| somewhat made my point. I'm sure many will disagree, and
| that is why this country is on its way downwards. The few
| smart will own and create a lot of value for themselves,
| we'll likely have a few trillionaires, and the majority
| will be bumbling idiots that can barely read. We're not
| there yet, but we're well on the way there
| iwontberude wrote:
| Never, none of this shit matters
| XorNot wrote:
| What's wrong with an OnlyFans contributor? It's a self-
| employed job that services a demand within the economy and
| pays taxes. It's pretty close to the _ideal_ job an immigrant
| can have since the product is already globalized but the
| revenue is not - i.e. an OnlyFans influencer with an American
| audience who moves to America is now bringing that income
| back into the economy via taxes and spending, _or_ if they
| have an international audience they are attracting foreign
| dollars into your economy and strengthening your currency
| position.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| Sex work (OF or otherwise) is unsavory, that's what. You
| can't stop it but there's zero reason we should be going
| out of our way to grant visas to sex workers.
| gjm11 wrote:
| > there's zero reason
|
| The comment you are replying to articulated, I think
| rather clearly, one reason why maybe we should.
|
| I think what you actually mean is that the reasons not to
| ("sex work is unsavory") outweigh the reasons to ("sex
| work is going to happen anyway and if some of the people
| doing it move to the US then they will spend their money
| and pay their taxes in the US and contribute to the
| economy there").
|
| Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but I don't think
| you should say "there's zero reason" when in fact there
| obviously are reasons and you just think other
| countervailing reasons matter more.
| bluescrn wrote:
| Extracting money from horny young men with an illusion of
| intimacy/friendship just doesn't seem ethical. Or good for
| society as a whole.
|
| Especially when you've got streamers using sites like
| Twitch, aimed at younger gamers, promoting their OnlyFans
| porn.
|
| The regular porn industry is bad enough
| (https://traffickinghub.com/), but at least the content is
| non-interactive, there's no pretence of
| friendship/connection.
| amelius wrote:
| Most users understand that there is no real friendship.
|
| Just like people understand that the violence in movies
| is fake.
|
| What makes an onlyfans contributor worse than an actor in
| a violent movie?
| eudamoniac wrote:
| They don't believe in the concept of a culture improving or
| declining. It's an axiom of a certain ideology that no
| culture can be inferior to another.
| majani wrote:
| The more I hear about culture, the more I think it seems like
| the new age mysticism of the right
| TitaRusell wrote:
| You should look into Ivanka Trump. It's quite funny.
| testacc74 wrote:
| I see no difference in Cristiano Ronaldo and a porn star and
| an influencer and whatever you name it. They are all idols
| that sell stories for people to project their own thoughts
| and desires onto and get emotional. I would be more worry
| about my kid believing in celebrities, regardless of who they
| are. And the American mainstream culture is filthy anyway. As
| the old French joke once said the difference of yogurt and
| the us is that if you leave yogurt for a coupled of hundred
| years they would develop culture.
| mpalmer wrote:
| In the interest of fairness, can you really say different
| about "mainstream" French culture?
| testacc74 wrote:
| Well I don't know much about French aside from the joke
| but Cannes obviously has way better taste than Hollywood.
|
| The neat part is, with social media and global internet,
| culture are generally degenerating regardless of
| countries. If I were American citizen(gladly Im not) I
| might as well just let them in to get some tax money, and
| potentially see if the industry can be used as a soft
| propaganda machine. Just like Hollywood.
| tehlike wrote:
| You would not have a lot of trouble with your kid trying to
| be best in basketball, or football, and make a name for it.
|
| I don't think the same would apply to OF or porn. Totally
| different things.
| actionfromafar wrote:
| Which one did Melania qualify for? Type O 1A or O 1B?
| ThinkingGuy wrote:
| E-1, according to Snopes, citing the Washington Post:
|
| https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/07/02/melania-trump-
| einstei...
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| Tale as old as time.
|
| Dial M for Melania.
| mattfrommars wrote:
| I've been thinking lately a lot of female pornographic
| actresses on sites such as Brazzers don't have US origins.
|
| Does anyone know on which work visa do models come in then? It
| can't be H1B...
| aiauthoritydev wrote:
| O1. It was specifically designed for this sort of professions
| and sports. For example when Chess Grandmasters from India
| come to USA.
| onraglanroad wrote:
| But many are. Stormy Daniels, for example, is American.
| aiauthoritydev wrote:
| I am not a lawyer. But OF models using O1 visa is totally fine.
| It is the intended purpose. The visa itself is meant for
| researchers, scholars who have job offers, athletes, actors
| etc. it has no cap and clear criteria. OF models who make a lot
| of money should totally qualify for this.
|
| Also this visa in uncapped so giving visas to OF models does
| not take away anything from scientists and others.
|
| O visa's original intent was to help pretty ladies from Eastern
| Europe to be brought into the country as indentured workers.
| That is why it is so easy to get this visa for an actor or a
| fashion model but very tough to get someone for their research.
|
| So all this is working as intended.
| Jare wrote:
| I thought the reason for this to be a visa is because their
| fields' activities were in-person (acting in
| movies/plays/shows, academic life & research, sports training
| & leagues, etc). A streamer / OF worker is not like that as
| far as I know (but e-sports is). So this is purely to bring
| people with money and/or influence, nothing exceptional
| except the number of 0's.
| whaleofatw2022 wrote:
| > A streamer / OF worker is not like that as far as I know
| (but e-sports is).
|
| Well Streamer vs Influencer can be different potentially,
| that said I can think of one example even for video game
| streamers, that being the AGDQ charity event where
| speedrunners/streamers do stuff live for charity at the
| event space.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| > I thought the reason for this to be a visa is because
| their fields' activities were in-person (acting in
| movies/plays/shows, academic life & research, sports
| training & leagues, etc). A streamer / OF worker is not
| like that as far as I know
|
| An OnlyFans worker may make the bulk of her money by
| meeting fans in person for dates. That can't be done over
| the internet.
| t-3 wrote:
| She's not really an "OnlyFans worker" in that case.
| OnlyFans is merely an advertising venue for an escort or
| prostitution service.
| lazide wrote:
| Wait until you hear about porn stars!
| dessimus wrote:
| While possible to be for physical sex work, I think the
| previous commenter meant by meeting fans, would be like
| at a meet-and-greet at a Con, so they can further
| increase the parasocial relationship with the people
| giving them subscriptions, signing autographs. Also, they
| may be doing collabs with other content creators, just as
| comedians and actors will be on each others podcasts.
| eyeris wrote:
| Think it's likely for some OF is the sidegig and for
| others escorting is the sidegig.
|
| Both would build brand, but I'd imagine making it big on
| OF streamer has a much higher cap than making it big as
| an escort.
| usef- wrote:
| It increases the countries' soft power if people around the
| world watch content from there.
|
| Eg. a self-reinforcing cycle that you get the best from the
| other immigrant categories arriving because they choose the
| country where everything "seems to be happening".
| neilv wrote:
| What I know from news articles is that some of them openly
| "escort", like some traditional porn stars did more
| quietly. The fame on the screen can be brand-building for
| the even more lucrative in-person work.
|
| As one said in a quote, regarding AI threat and crumbling
| economies: "The oldest profession will be the last
| profession."
|
| If some of them want to move to the US right now, from
| currently healthier countries, one reason may be that
| social inequality means there are many deep-pocketed
| customers able to pay 5 figures for a weekend experience.
| autoexec wrote:
| The decline of the US means that there will be
| increasingly fewer deep-pocketed customers able to pay 5
| figures for anything.
|
| Those who come to the US with enough money on the bank
| will have access to a lifestyle and experiences that are
| becoming more and more exclusive, which makes for great
| content for the peasant class to consume on their phones.
| Majora320 wrote:
| > The decline of the US means that there will be
| increasingly fewer deep-pocketed customers able to pay 5
| figures for anything.
|
| Those at the top are doing very well, it's those without
| access to capital who are struggling. America in decline
| looks like a bifurcated economy where low-paying jobs
| catering to the desires of the wealthy take up an
| increasingly large share of the economy. You can decide
| for yourself to what extent this is already happening.
| dijit wrote:
| > A streamer / OF [may not have to be in person]
|
| From what I understand about OF, it's not just people
| posting lewds, sometimes there are other actors in the
| media.
|
| Having access to established actors and uh...
| "collaborating" with them would require being there in
| person I would guess.
| michaelt wrote:
| As I understand it [1], usually if you try to cross the
| border declaring you intend to engage in sex work, they
| turn you away. Some combination of prudishness and
| concern about trafficking.
|
| For there to be a special sex worker visa is a surprise,
| to me.
|
| [1] https://www.pace-society.org/wp-
| content/uploads/2023/06/3194...
| MadnessASAP wrote:
| It's strange, but is it _really_ surprising? It 's not
| like hypocrisy and moat building are new things in
| American politics.
|
| These days I wouldn't even be surprised to discover it
| was intentional. Some person or group wanted to ensure
| they could engage in sex trafficking with a superficially
| legal cover, but didn't want it to actually be legal.
| pb7 wrote:
| Why does someone doing OF need to be in the country? You can
| upload pictures from anywhere.
| joe_mamba wrote:
| Because once you move to live in the US (or any other
| country) then you become tax liable there and every gov
| wants more net taxpayers.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Yeah this is the reason. People who earn a lot of money
| pay taxes and aren't a burden on any social services.
| More, please.
| ReptileMan wrote:
| Being able to shove 5 inch diameter dildo 12 inches up your
| rectum is extraordinary ability no matter how you slice and
| dice it. Useless - sure.
| anukin wrote:
| If you slice and dice it, it's not 5 inch or 12 inch.
|
| Sorry couldn't help
| lenerdenator wrote:
| I think back when it was just actors, musicians, athletes, etc.
| it was in a time when there were gatekeepers for whether or not
| those people had any actual talent in an art.
|
| Whether or not those gatekeepers were right is another matter,
| but there was some guy in an office in a skyscraper who you
| _had_ to impress, and if you did, you could get in.
|
| Now, that guy's effectively gone. Aiden Ross, Jack Doherty -
| that kind of guy - couldn't have impressed a big wig. But now,
| they don't have to. They have to make people pay attention to
| them on YouTube/Instagram/TikTok/Twitch, and that's it. And
| they do that and they can get people to give them insane money
| to do so because they want access to that audience. Quality
| doesn't matter anymore.
| apparent wrote:
| I guess the question is why do virtual/internet stars need to
| be in the US? Actors or musicians would have primarily
| performed live or been recorded live, in US cities. But an OF
| model? Why does this person need to be physically located in
| the US at all? What is the benefit to the person, or to the US?
| justinhj wrote:
| Tax revenue
| apparent wrote:
| What is the average turnover/tenure of a camgirl? I'd think
| that most popular camgirls come and go pretty quickly, such
| that giving them visas that were formerly reserved for
| performing musicians would not necessarily make sense.
| xp84 wrote:
| Benefit to the person is probably a path to citizenship and
| more economic opportunities (especially since being a camgirl
| is a young person's career with almost no long-term
| prospects)
|
| Benefit to the USA, being generous, is that those earnings of
| the camgirl may then be spent in the US instead of flowing
| overseas. At least some of it will.
|
| Critics would rightly point out though that importing
| thousands of camgirls increases demand for apartments (and
| even more than the typical person because I bet they're less
| likely to live with roommates than a typical woman of the
| same age) and we have a massive housing crisis in all cities.
| Maybe if the camgirls want to move to the rust belt or
| something, it could still work out net positive.
| Lord_Zero wrote:
| I would like to point out the long term prospects part may
| not be true for high earners. Some models make a senior
| software engineers annual salary in a matter of months.
| Many of these people can retire and live off investments at
| age 35.
| emmp wrote:
| The benefit to the person is going to vary. For one reason or
| another they prefer to be in US rather than wherever they
| currently are. I'm sure each person has their own unique set
| of reasons, but it's not hard to imagine.
|
| A benefit for the US is increased GDP, tax revenue, etc.
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > What is the benefit to the person, or to the US?
|
| Not that I encourage it but... Obviously an OF model moving
| to the US means US users viewing that person now stop sending
| money abroad. And people from all over the world watching
| that model now send money to the US.
|
| It's not just tax revenues: it's shifting the balance of
| money in the US's favor. If an OF model makes $10m a year and
| pays $2m in taxes, it's not just $2m in tax revenues for the
| US: it's also in addition to that $8m that are now
| spent/staying in the US.
| 6r17 wrote:
| The painting of idiocracy hits hard doesn't it ?
| dnautics wrote:
| arguably the O-1B is more necessary than the O-1A. If you
| didn't have an O-1B you couldn't have a bjork come and give a
| concert in the US and get paid for it, you couldn't have an
| emma thompson come and shoot for a hollywood film and get paid
| for it, you couldn't hold ANY major international sporting
| events, etc.
| stefap2 wrote:
| Actually, it falls under OF-1 visa category.
| LudwigNagasena wrote:
| If you are a professional in a sphere like engineering, then
| getting eg 10k views on your videos is very remarkable and acts
| as a indirect proof of acclaim. But when it is the whole metric,
| then it just overvalues public professions where in itself 10k
| views is nothing remarkable. That's the core issue as far as I
| understand.
|
| (But even for professionals, it's a very gameable metric. There
| is a whole industry that helps getting published material and
| appearances for O-1 applications.)
| riazrizvi wrote:
| Proof of interest, not acclaim. And online interest is heavily
| skewed to the narrow activities of entertainment and education
| - professional community communication happens but in far
| smaller numbers vs the other two.
| TZubiri wrote:
| "Whoever knowingly transports any individual in interstate or
| foreign commerce, or in any Territory or Possession of the United
| States, with intent that such individual engage in prostitution,
| or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged
| with a criminal offense, shall be fined under this title or
| imprisoned not more than five years, or both"
| potato3732842 wrote:
| You see comrade, the government represents all of us, so when
| the government deems something beneficial and worth doing we
| all benefit /s
|
| Me dumping oil on the ground -> bad.
|
| megacorp paying some engineers to make up a number for just how
| much oil is ok to dump on the ground and paying for government
| permission -> good
|
| Diddy flying hoes around -> bad
|
| OF models paying the .gov to fly around -> good
|
| (I'm joking here, but not nearly as much as I wish I was)
| TZubiri wrote:
| >OF models paying the .gov to fly around -> good
|
| Yes, with Republican govs, they can pay the government
| directly for a Golden Visa.
|
| But with Democrat governments it's a bit more fair, they have
| to pay an immigration lawyer at 300$/hr with John money to
| get in instead. /s
|
| At least it's better than them going in with a B1 visa and
| doing whatever.
|
| Sorry for the politics dang.
| cwillu wrote:
| Filming porn isn't prostitution nor a sexual activity for which
| any person can be charged with a criminal offense. Hope this
| helps.
| gowld wrote:
| The area seems greyer when, as happens in some operations,
| one person A is getting paid to have sex, and the other
| person B having the sex is paying person A, even if B is
| filming the sex and selling the video.
| cwillu wrote:
| If they wanted to make that point, then they should have
| made that point instead of quoting a snippet of legislation
| of dubious relevance to an article that devoted more lines
| to chess influencers, fashion influencers, and musicians,
| than porn stars.
| aforwardslash wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlbAMdDry4A
| TZubiri wrote:
| I think it's naive to think that these girls are only very
| strictly selling feet images and are not in the business of
| having sex for money as well.
|
| Especially when you consider the top-heavy success
| distribution. Sure there's influencers that have 100M views,
| but theres thousands of influencers with 300 views, are they
| going to be just happy with selling pictures for 10 bucks? Or
| will they follow the whales until they are paid to be flown
| into the prostitution assembly line, with or without visas.
| pcthrowaway wrote:
| Apparently porn is sex for money, but legally it's not
| prostitution. So in that case, these OF influencers can
| just bill their private services as coaching lessons for
| aspiring actors.
|
| No one said law was consistent or made sense.
| password54321 wrote:
| Remnants of a late stage empire. The US peaked out over 20 years
| ago.
| fHr wrote:
| true
| phkahler wrote:
| Why do they need a visa for remote work?
| throwttt wrote:
| They wanna taste american life. Reality is gonna hit hard
| sooner or later
| mcintyre1994 wrote:
| Because they want to stay longer than tourist visas allow. And
| because most places (US definitely included) don't let you work
| remotely on a tourist visa either, with a few exceptions that
| wouldn't cover them sufficiently.
| superkuh wrote:
| Celebrities are getting visas instead of celebrities? Ok. I don't
| see the issue.
| drnick1 wrote:
| > The O-1 category includes the O-1A, which is designated for
| individuals with extraordinary ability in the sciences,
| education, business or athletics and the O-1B, reserved for those
| with "extraordinary ability or achievement".
|
| > My whole thing is being the funny Jewish girl with big boobs.
| rtkwe wrote:
| The O-1B category is broad because it's mostly entertainment
| based so there's more squishy room two of the requirements
| match a Top OF model though.
|
| > Evidence of a record of major commercial or critically
| acclaimed successes in the performing arts, as shown by box
| office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video
| sales
|
| > Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other
| significantly high remuneration for services in relation to
| others
|
| A high earning OF model ticks both of those boxes pretty
| easily. We don't want to put dollar amounts on it to only
| attract movie stars because other professions don't pay as well
| would be blocked out and an explicit filter on (heh) explicit
| O1 visas would be a content based restriction that would (or at
| least imo should) be a 1A infringement. [0]
|
| https://www.pathlawgroup.com/o1b-visa-requirements/
|
| [0] IMO a 1A restriction to who can come to the country is
| defacto a restriction on speech in the country.
| gowld wrote:
| > My whole thing is being the funny Jewish girl with big boobs.
|
| I thought that was Rachel Bloom.
|
| Is she passing the torch to the next generation?
|
| Anyway, it's not that different from having the extraordinary
| ability of having hand-eye-coordination on a 7-foot frame.
| strongpigeon wrote:
| I mostly don't care about influencers and OnlyFan, but that...
| Seems fine to me?
|
| If you managed to amass 1M followers you clearly have strong
| abilities as an entertainer. The fact that the medium is
| different than what used to be the norm shouldn't have an impact.
| ericmcer wrote:
| As a strategy for strengthening our national economy it is
| great, as a larger cultural/societal marker it is bleak.
| phantom784 wrote:
| How is "extraordinary ability" defined? At what point does an
| influencer or OF model (or a traditional actor for that matter)
| have enough "extortionary ability" to get the visa?
| krautburglar wrote:
| The hole-one visa... how fitting.
| tdb7893 wrote:
| Most of the scientists and engineers I know are on different
| visas. The US has gained a ton from being largely the cultural
| center of the world so it's good that there's a visa to take in
| cultural figures (even if I don't personally connect with
| influencer culture). As social media is new and fairly spread
| out, especially compared to traditional recipients like models
| and actors, it seems really unsurprising they are a ton of these
| now. I would say the problem is less we are taking in influencers
| and more we aren't accepting other people.
| linhns wrote:
| Hardly a surprise considering how much more people have entered
| OF in the last few years.
| voxleone wrote:
| By 1994, I was in triumphant optimism. I was young-ish, my
| country was in for its most beautiful decade ever, and the
| internet seemed to herald a time of final Liberation, with the
| Earth becoming home to a single, global scientist-philosopher
| society.
|
| And so, suddenly, we find ourselves mired between traditionalist
| discomfort and pragmatic acceptance, an unglamorous terminus for
| earlier dreams of Human synthesis.
| codyklimdev wrote:
| I wonder how much "OnlyFans models applying for O-1 visas" is
| just sex trafficking with a thin veneer
| majani wrote:
| O1 would probably want to see a huge number of followers. An OG
| model with a large following is someone with a huge amount of
| agency. Probably the highest agency sex worker of them all.
| Impossible to traffic
| blackswan101 wrote:
| America becoming the physical and virtual brothel of the world.
| thisisauserid wrote:
| Immigrants are taking American handjobs!
| OptionOfT wrote:
| Interestingly, the O-1 can also be used for Software Engineers.
|
| Given the amount of unemployed Software Engineers, it makes sense
| to reduce H1-Bs in that category.
|
| Companies can still hire exceptional people from overseas using
| this O-1 visa.
| qaq wrote:
| just make it $ contingent OF models make ordinary income if
| someone is pulling in several million USD a year they are going
| to be paying a ton of taxes here. What is the downside?
| psychoslave wrote:
| Ok, but who else still want to go to USA lately?
|
| I hope the best for every people out there, including every usa
| citizen, but money alone won't attract every human profile under
| the sun, and unleashed imperialism which don't even pretend to
| export democracy anymore is doing nothing good for the the image
| of the country I'm afraid.
|
| What a world really! Take care everything, might safety and peace
| remain on you and your relatives.
| TheAlchemist wrote:
| I struggle to understand who pays for OF content and who follows
| them ? From what I've read 99% of OF is porn in some form or
| another. So there are millions of people who create accounts and
| pay for it - linking their personnal info to this thing ?
|
| As for the visa, it's not surprising and obviously idiotic for
| the society, but from the 'merit' standpoints it feels about
| right - if somebody has 10M followers, it's not that different
| from a radio or tv star.
| lazarus01 wrote:
| It is for this reason I am grateful to be a gen xr. I was at the
| end of my 20s when social media blew up, so it wasn't a
| meaningful part of my personal development. I cannot bring myself
| to look at IG and the hot mess it serves up daily. A hyper
| focused lens on the potential of human desperation and stupidity.
|
| I don't hate on the younger generation, I feel bad they grew up
| with this shit and try to be a positive influence.
|
| I see people of legit talent from doctors, to chemists and
| musicians dedicate themselves to posting content. What people
| don't understand is survivor bias. For every success story you
| read about, how many people are going in reverse and not
| experiencing social mobility (and get depressed from it).
| jitbit wrote:
| The title is misleading. It says "dominating" however no sources
| or percentages are provided. And later in the article it only
| says "increasingly applying", with just two examples.
|
| I do have a friend (very popular drummer-YouTuber who makes
| covers, has millions of subs) who did get an O visa because he
| actually is a, kinda, celebrity, so I guess this is indeed
| happening occasionally. But nothing is being "dominated" here.
| bigwheels wrote:
| To be clear: TFA is a thinly veiled legal services
| advertisement ("submarine" in HN parlance), so "dominated" is
| being used as a hype-generation / reality distortion term.
|
| That said, the reality of today is so-called influencers and OF
| sex workers are now becoming a relevant fraction of applicants
| compared to the past where they represented 0%. Is it possible
| fixating on the word "dominating" a bit overly pedantic?
|
| There is already a lot going on here without pedantry.
| saalweachter wrote:
| I would also note that, even if the title is accurate, and
| (say) 90% of applications are from social media influencers, it
| _doesn 't even make a claim_ about how many are granted. It
| could be that countless influencers are applying... and being
| rejected.
| testfrequency wrote:
| Says a lot about who actually wants to and is willing to relocate
| there...
| drstewart wrote:
| So what does it say about the fact that Europe's immigration is
| dominated by skill-less and jobless migrants and refugees?
| testfrequency wrote:
| We are all pretty happy!
|
| Also, I'm sorry you think cam girls and people who #ad
| carbonated water are considered skilled in the context of
| work and contributing to society meaningfully..
| ck2 wrote:
| fun-fact: Melania got an "Einstein Visa" shortly after she
| started dating the president
|
| https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43256318
|
| and the owner of the modeling agency she came from "committed
| suicide" in prison
| bubblethink wrote:
| People are getting hung up on definitions of extraordinary. The
| thing you need to understand is that US immigration is a
| political blackhole. The main pathways to immigrate to the US are
| family, misery (asylum, refugee, tps), or luck (diversity).
| Employment or economic immigration is frowned upon and visas like
| H-1B are limited and exploitative and still ultimately
| politically unpopular as the masses don't want to compete. So,
| that leaves O-1 as an escape hatch for a basic economic
| immigration visa that won't rile up the masses. Afterall, a chud
| does not reasonably believe that an influencer or a pornstar is
| stealing his job. So it goes.
| kwar13 wrote:
| > "I don't think [people] realize how much work actually goes
| into it," she said. "You might not agree with the way the money
| is being made, or what people are watching, but people are still
| watching and paying for it."
| tamimio wrote:
| Golden age!!
|
| Try now to convince a young person to become a doctor or an
| engineer, when an OF individual can make in a day what they will
| make in 40y, assuming they found a job anyway. Idiocracy was a
| glimpse into the future, not a movie.
| firefax wrote:
| Is an O-1 the "model visa"?
|
| Because OF models _are_ models... so I wonder if model management
| companies are upset about folks selling content directly to
| consumers without abusive middle management and drumming up
| outrage to protect their shitty business model.
|
| Say what you want about sites like OF, but at least the
| performers get a huge chunk of the earnings.
| eli_gottlieb wrote:
| Oh lovely, we're becoming a Grifters' Republic of Social Media.
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