[HN Gopher] Influencers and OnlyFans models are dominating U.S. ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Influencers and OnlyFans models are dominating U.S. O-1 visa
       requests
        
       Author : bookofjoe
       Score  : 310 points
       Date   : 2026-01-13 16:47 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | OK I've got to know...which of these does OF fall under
       | 
       | >extraordinary ability in the sciences, education, business or
       | athletics
        
         | tom_ wrote:
         | That's for only one of the subtypes of visa. The official site
         | (https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-
         | states/temporary...) mentions a few more options, which would
         | probably turn out to cover onlyfans if you get the right sort
         | of professional advice:
         | 
         | > The O-1 nonimmigrant visa is for the individual who possesses
         | extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education,
         | business, or athletics, or who has a demonstrated record of
         | extraordinary achievement in the motion picture or television
         | industry and has been recognized nationally or internationally
         | for those achievements
        
         | forkerenok wrote:
         | I can easily see how 3 of the 4 categories mentioned here could
         | fit.
        
         | cvhc wrote:
         | That's O-1A. O-1B: Individuals with an extraordinary ability in
         | the arts or extraordinary achievement in motion picture or
         | television industry.
        
         | tommy_axle wrote:
         | My guess is business (if they are doing well on the platform)
        
         | yojat661 wrote:
         | Webcam athletics
        
         | Avicebron wrote:
         | Has to be athletics right?
        
         | bad_haircut72 wrote:
         | If you ever get a chance with one of these women you'll learn
         | its all of them
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | I've seen some bedroom activities that I would definitely
         | categorize as requiring extraordinary athletic abilities...
        
       | areoform wrote:
       | Such articles are interesting because they're tacit disapproval,
       | but I would argue that this use of the O-1 is the most American
       | way to use it.
       | 
       | There's a reason why Hollywood became the Earth's center of
       | cultural gravity post-WW2,
       | https://goldenglobes.com/articles/exiles-and-emigres-hollywo...
       | 
       | You may argue that these people aren't of such import, but I
       | would beg to differ. This is the future of culture. These people
       | shape the culture that the young people around you consume. They
       | create the memes of six-seven-ification.
        
         | darth_avocado wrote:
         | I have no judgement on these models. Everyone can make money
         | through legal means as they deem fit.
         | 
         | But at the same time, the immigration system historically
         | penalized anyone who engages in prostitution and actively
         | denied entry to people found to be engaged in it. There is an
         | explicit question about this in all immigration forms. Which is
         | why it's surprising that O-1 visas are being awarded to
         | OnlyFans models. Maybe OF isn't prostitution according to how
         | it's being interpreted, but it's very surprising.
        
           | palata wrote:
           | If OnlyFans is not prostitution (and in my understanding it
           | is not), then I don't see why it is surprising?
        
           | nemomarx wrote:
           | how would it be interpreted as prostitution? the close
           | analogue is porn stars right
        
             | gampleman wrote:
             | Porn comes from porne, Greek for prostitute. So at least
             | etymologically (and arguably logically as both involve sex
             | for money) porn is prostitution.
             | 
             | If that's accepted, then I find it hard not to also accept
             | OF as a form of prostitution.
        
             | darth_avocado wrote:
             | Well Sweden sure thinks it could be a form of prostitution.
             | While Some form of OF is similar to pornography (pre
             | recorded shows) other is similar to prostitution and
             | therefore illegal (paying for custom live sexual acts).
             | Obviously Sweden isn't US, but it's not as clear as "OF is
             | just porn".
             | 
             | https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-
             | monitor/2025-06-10/swe...
        
           | mrguyorama wrote:
           | Why should prostitutes not be allowed to immigrate to the US?
        
             | rurban wrote:
             | Because their abilities are not in the extraordinary
             | artistic abilities category. It's not Hollywood, it's
             | Florida.
        
             | darth_avocado wrote:
             | That is beyond my pay grade. I'm just stating how the
             | immigration system has worked historically.
        
           | areoform wrote:
           | Disclaimer: I don't mean this comment as an insult to you or
           | anyone else here. It's meant to be slightly tongue in cheek.
           | 
           | I hate to be that person, but the fact that so many people on
           | HN think OF is prostitution is revealing of the site's
           | demographics (i.e. older). It is, as some may put it, boomer
           | thinking.
           | 
           | You're misunderstanding what these people - esports athletes,
           | successful streamers, influencers, OF models etc - actually
           | do. They create and maintain parasocial relationships.
           | 
           | The point isn't just the gameplay or nudes / sex videos or
           | commentary. For e.g., I (and a bunch of other young women for
           | some reason) love to watch Temet
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go8EJbNaIHg while working.
           | It's the way they reflect back to their audience and allow
           | them to become a part of their performance.
           | 
           | It's kind of like the place where everyone knows your name?
           | These are digital third places and the content (whether it be
           | neon blue bunny hopping characters or a graphic video of
           | someone having sex) is a mechanism for bonding / a part of
           | the activity. Kind of like the alcohol at the pub, I suppose.
           | 
           | That's where real influence comes from in this age.
           | 
           | If you think OF is prostitution, you're fundamentally
           | misunderstanding what will drive power and culture in this
           | century.
        
             | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
             | There's a strong parasocial element to traditional
             | prostitution, although it's used more by high-end "escorts"
             | who deliberately cultivate conversational skills. So none
             | of this is new.
             | 
             | "My default strategy was this: I would invite the man in,
             | we'd sit down and talk for a while. I'd establish physical
             | contact in the conversation by touching his hand when
             | laughing at a joke, or crossing my leg so it bumped into
             | his. I would become increasingly charmed, utterly
             | fascinated by his life, and I asked him to explain to me
             | concepts I already knew (remember, they like you smart in
             | order to validate their identity as a man who likes smart
             | women, and they still love teaching you things)."
             | 
             | https://knowingless.com/2021/10/19/becoming-a-whorelord-
             | the-...
        
             | etblg wrote:
             | > I hate to be that person, but the fact that so many
             | people on HN think OF is prostitution is revealing of the
             | site's demographics (i.e. older). It is, as some may put
             | it, boomer thinking.
             | 
             | Well it's not non-existent either, there are a fair number
             | of onlyfans models (and also general actors in the field of
             | pornography who do the same) who do escorting on the side.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | "There are a fair number of people in X field who do Y on
               | the side" is a completely and radically different things
               | than "X is a subset of Y."
        
             | darth_avocado wrote:
             | It's not the boomer thinking, it's just mostly talking
             | about semantics. Prostitution is defined as engaging in
             | sexual activity in exchange for payment, which is frowned
             | upon in the immigration system.
             | 
             | Is being in a sugar daddy/baby relationship a form
             | prostitution? Is paying money for a custom private show
             | online where the OF model performs all kinds of sexual acts
             | prostitution? Does prostitution require physical contact?
             | Thats the question of semantics that I am curious about
             | re:immigration.
             | 
             | And these questions aren't "Boomer mentality". There is
             | precedent in asking for clear definitions. Sweden makes a
             | distinction between pre recorded only fans work, which is
             | akin to pornography and custom shows which are
             | criminalized, akin to prostitution.
             | https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-
             | monitor/2025-06-10/swe...
        
           | ixtli wrote:
           | Idk if you mean it literally but conflating the sort of
           | prostitution they ask about on immigration forms with taking
           | naked pictures of yourself seems very wrong.
        
         | jjmarr wrote:
         | If one of America's main exports is culture, why would you ban
         | factor inputs?
         | 
         | They're also not fungible and extremely mobile. People get
         | attached to specific OF stars and the medium inherently
         | requires remote work. So it's an inherently global labour force
         | that protectionism won't help. American OF models won't
         | magically make more money if you ban immigration unless you
         | also ban cultural imports.
         | 
         | The government isn't displacing local talent by importing OF
         | models and gets tax dollars for essentially doing nothing.
         | Those tax dollars pay for schools/hospitals/etc.
         | 
         | OF also skews towards young, unmarried women, which balances
         | the gender surplus of unmarried men that generally tries to
         | immigrate. Since they're young, they also have more
         | productivity before drawing on benefits like Medicare or Social
         | Security.
         | 
         | By any objective standard OF models are the ideal migrant.
        
           | password54321 wrote:
           | ...I get this is HN but come on. It is just modern day
           | JasminCam for lonely men that are being exploited through
           | parasocial relationships. It is the opposite of productive.
           | You just have society feeding on itself.
        
             | stackghost wrote:
             | >It is just modern day JasminCam for lonely men that are
             | being exploited through parasocial relationships. It is the
             | opposite of productive.
             | 
             | You can make all the moral judgments you like, but the fact
             | is: They're making money either way, and then spending that
             | money in their local communities. They can spend that money
             | (and pay taxes on it) in the US or not.
             | 
             | It's no different economically than a musician or an actor
             | doing the same.
        
               | password54321 wrote:
               | It was not a moral judgement.
        
             | drdaeman wrote:
             | > exploited
             | 
             | Isn't that a derogatory stereotype? Aren't those men (and
             | women and other folks) as "exploited" as a reader of a book
             | or a player of a game, who understands they're about to be
             | a part of a fantasy but willingly suspend the disbelief for
             | a short while?
             | 
             | It's only exploitation if this suspension of disbelief is
             | artificially prolonged in nefarious way, with a self-
             | reinforcing fantasy so the person loses touch with the
             | reality and spends increasingly unhealthy amounts of time
             | in a fantasy, or otherwise get conditioned and start to
             | exhibit addiction-like behaviors that aren't in their best
             | long-term interests.
             | 
             | That happens (every entertainment industry has its whales),
             | but saying it's the norm (rather than a pathological
             | extremity) is sort of stigmatizing.
        
               | password54321 wrote:
               | Parasocial relationships are inherently exploitive.
        
               | nozzlegear wrote:
               | Are all transactions on OF inherently a parasocial
               | relationship? If a dude wants to jerk his schmeat to
               | somebody he thinks is attractive, and pays for access to
               | the media without otherwise engaging, is that parasocial?
        
               | password54321 wrote:
               | You could do that for free. Most are obviously looking
               | for more.
               | 
               | It kind of sounds like you are trying to justify whatever
               | it is you are doing, in which case you do you. I don't
               | actually care what you do and neither should you care
               | what I think.
        
               | nozzlegear wrote:
               | > You could do that for free. Most are obviously looking
               | for more.
               | 
               | And everyone can use Pornhub for free, yet Pornhub still
               | makes money on their premium subscriptions. Are those
               | also parasocial relationships? Is all porn just a big
               | parasocial relationship?!
               | 
               | > It kind of sounds like you are trying to justify
               | whatever it is you are doing, in which case you do you.
               | 
               | You know I thought about putting the obligatory "I don't
               | use OF" in my first comment, but felt it wouldn't be
               | necessary. I see that it was; by the way have you stopped
               | beating your wife?
        
               | lo_zamoyski wrote:
               | It should be stigmatized.
               | 
               | Consent does not bless immoral acts or neutralize damage.
               | A person who takes a drug voluntarily is still being
               | harmed by it. It causes changes in the consumer whether
               | he likes it or not. Causality does not care about your
               | consent.
               | 
               | (And to address your analogy to books, the content of a
               | work of fiction also matters. Reading bad books isn't
               | good for your mind either. But literary fiction at least
               | has the potential to be good. The genre isn't
               | categorically bad.)
               | 
               | And porn is addictive. Porn addiction is extremely
               | widespread and afflicts mostly young men. Porn's ubiquity
               | and the easy with which it can be accessed has created a
               | situation that did not exist before, and from a young
               | age. And not only is it addictive, but it does real
               | psychological damage to these consumers, creating what
               | some call "porn brain". It is an excellent method for
               | producing sexually-crippled creeps and incels unable -
               | and even uninterested, given the nature of their
               | "fantasy" - to have healthy relationships with real human
               | beings, and the stats corroborate this.
               | 
               | It is an incredibly twisted and deranging vice. It
               | destroys individuals and has a destructive impact on
               | society as a whole.
        
               | drdaeman wrote:
               | > A person who takes a drug voluntarily is still being
               | harmed by it. It causes changes in the consumer whether
               | he likes it or not.
               | 
               | I'm afraid you're oversimplifying it. If only things
               | would be this simple. They just never are.
               | 
               | Every experience causes changes (it's the whole point).
               | And every stimulating experience has a potential to skew
               | your behaviors towards having more of it. Some more, some
               | less, of course, but anything can become a passion and
               | get unhealthy so.
               | 
               | There's this fine distinction between someone who does
               | something now and then, without significant impairment to
               | their decision-making abilities that cause over-favoring
               | such actions, and those who fail to notice it in time and
               | become overtly obsessed with something.
               | 
               | It's not about what you do - you can be watching porn or
               | going hiking (or whatever most people would naively deem
               | "good") - anything can become unhealthy.
               | 
               | I think I understand your point, though. Indeed,
               | pornography consumption nature is intimate and that
               | leaves less opportunities for feedback and self-
               | introspection. That is, noticing the point it becomes
               | more of an obsession. However, dismissing it under a
               | simple "porn is bad" (a tempting idea) is short-sighted
               | by dismissing any nuances, and also harmful - just in
               | different ways (through stigmatization).
        
             | zer00eyz wrote:
             | There is a reason why "the oldest profession" is a polite
             | idiom for prostitution.
             | 
             | Calling it "parasocial", doesn't change what it is, but the
             | technology as a mediator does. And society has been feeding
             | on itself since we moved past hunter gatherers.
        
           | gowld wrote:
           | This seems more like importing culture. These content
           | creators aren't coming to work or American creators, they are
           | coming to America to create their content for American
           | audiences or using American resources.
        
         | ericmcer wrote:
         | Influencers as the future of culture is not great. Hollywood
         | had a ton of issues but it at least had some... class? If you
         | watch an interview with Mr. Beast or other famous influencers
         | they are concerningly ignorant, have little self-awareness and
         | a child-like approach to reality. It makes total sense given
         | these are teenagers who were lauded with fame for entertaining
         | other teenagers on social media.
         | 
         | I watched the Mr. Beast episode of David Letterman's show, and
         | I had no expectations but figured he must have some charisma as
         | the most watched youtube person. He was unable to explain basic
         | concepts, had no self-awareness, and generally seemed detached
         | from any sort of reality. It was shocking to think that is who
         | is shaping young peoples minds.
        
           | gowld wrote:
           | > Hollywood had a ton of issues but it at least had some...
           | class?
           | 
           | Hollywood took a bribe from the tobacco industry to make
           | smoking "cool" and infect our nation with cigarettes.
           | 
           | > have little self-awareness
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mpUxn7NybY : "A big
           | opportunity for us is that there are no gatekeepers. There's
           | no one I have to convince to let me do things."
           | 
           | :-)
        
             | tartoran wrote:
             | > Hollywood took a bribe from the tobacco industry to make
             | smoking "cool" and infect our nation with cigarettes.
             | 
             | I think the whole world took up smoking because of
             | Hollywood.
        
             | timeon wrote:
             | For actors it was "took a bribe" for influencers it is
             | modus operandi.
        
           | terminalshort wrote:
           | And how is this is different from movie stars?
        
             | globular-toast wrote:
             | A lot of movie stars seem very intelligent and quite
             | conscientious people to me. The directors even more so.
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | I think things like "classiness," "grace," and "tact" are all
           | but dead, both in Hollywood and across the population.
           | Everyone seems to be mentally teenagers, but in middle-age
           | bodies.
        
           | thorum wrote:
           | > Hollywood had a ton of issues but it at least had some...
           | class?
           | 
           | It looked that way because they had media training and their
           | public personas were carefully managed, with staged
           | interviews and media appearances. Behind the scenes, it's a
           | different story.
           | 
           | Influencers are rewarded for seeming authentic. Mr Beast
           | coming across badly in a traditional TV interview just makes
           | his audience think he's more real.
        
             | Sammi wrote:
             | Yes you're describing class.
        
               | thorum wrote:
               | I would disagree. If you have no class in private, you
               | have no class.
        
           | boelboel wrote:
           | "but it at least had some... class" Not if you'd have asked
           | the WASPs at the time, they very much looedk down on
           | Hollywood. Saw it as vulgar and beneath them for many of the
           | same reasons people dislike MrBeast. The 'class' only came
           | afterwards.
        
             | Animats wrote:
             | The movie industry was, for much of the 20th century, split
             | between production in Hollywood and finance in New York.
             | Probably the last gasp of that was Marvel, where, for a
             | long time, the merch and comic people in New York made the
             | final decisions.
        
           | thruway516 wrote:
           | 'Class','taste' etc these are all very subjective. One could
           | argue that Mr Beast built all of his fame from scratch and
           | didnt have it handed to him or having to sleep with some
           | powerful gatekeeper - something you can't say about all your
           | 'classy' hollywood stars. If you go back a century you can
           | probably find people kvetching about the lack of class of
           | these new fangled movie people compared to the theater stars
           | of their day (who actually had to know how to act)
        
           | mikkupikku wrote:
           | Hollywood actors being vapid idiots is a trope, or rather
           | reality, as old as Hollywood. Every time they go on Letterman
           | they have to carefully follow the script written for them to
           | avoid embarrassing themselves and the industry. And they
           | often fail at that.
           | 
           | BTW, actors are very often prostitutes. Have been since
           | ancient times and the association has stuck. Mediterranean
           | yachts are packed full of C-lister actresses/hookers. Not to
           | mention most of them get jobs by sleeping with producers,
           | which is just an indirect form of prostitution.
        
         | lo_zamoyski wrote:
         | The argument from cinema is flaky and a moral critique of
         | Hollywood's influence is unavoidable. But we're talking about
         | porn here, not cinema. This is decadence and depravity. How can
         | you confuse cinema with the construction of an international
         | whoredom? The numbers are also incommensurate.
         | 
         | And TikTok is the antithesis of culture. It's consumerist
         | rubbish that encourages a vapid, thoughtless, and illiterate
         | consumption of shallow material. The article even mentions the
         | monetary motivations of those posting. Any gimmick will do just
         | to make a buck.
         | 
         | Let us not relativize culture. If you relativize it, then your
         | argument falls apart anyway. Authentic culture serves human
         | beings. It involves learning from, developing, deepening,
         | refining, and correcting what came before. Trash content
         | doesn't do this. It is cultural poison. It ruins people's minds
         | and wrecks society.
         | 
         | This use of O-1 visas is merely another sign of the downward
         | trajectory of our polity. We are following Plato's description
         | of social decline perfectly. Perhaps aesthetically, it is
         | fitting that Trump is the poster boy of this abuse of O-1
         | visas, but he is at best an emanation and a catalyst of broader
         | and deeper social and cultural processes. In the absence of a
         | minimum of sound moral authority, you can expect the poison
         | that lurks in the mud to hatch out and begin to dominate the
         | polis.
        
           | NickC25 wrote:
           | >And TikTok is the antithesis of culture. It's consumerist
           | rubbish that encourages a vapid, thoughtless, and illiterate
           | consumption of shallow material. The article even mentions
           | the monetary motivations of those posting. Any gimmick will
           | do just to make a buck.
           | 
           | My brother, you've just described modern American culture
           | perfectly.
        
           | testacc74 wrote:
           | What's the difference between Hollywood popcorn films and
           | corn?
        
           | areoform wrote:
           | > Let us not relativize culture. If you relativize it, then
           | your argument falls apart anyway. Authentic culture serves
           | human beings. It involves learning from, developing,
           | deepening, refining, and correcting what came before. Trash
           | content doesn't do this. It is cultural poison. It ruins
           | people's minds and wrecks society.
           | 
           | The walls of Pompeii beg to differ.
           | 
           | https://pompeiiarchaeologicalpark.com/social-norms-and-
           | eroti...
           | 
           | https://mariasorensen.substack.com/p/the-forbidden-erotic-
           | ar...
           | 
           | https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/archaeology/a627393.
           | ..
           | 
           | I am sure there would have been people at the time decrying
           | the creation of pigments and paints as the fall of
           | civilization due to "decadence and depravity." Didn't matter
           | much, did it?
           | 
           | > We are following Plato's description of social decline
           | perfectly
           | 
           | Plato was a wrestler. _Plato would like totally be a gym bro,
           | bro._
           | 
           | It has been a while since I've read Republic, but I remember
           | Book 8 differently. To quote the IEP,
           | Tyranny arises out of democracy when the desire for freedom
           | to do what one wants becomes extreme (562b-c).  The freedom
           | or license aimed at in the democracy becomes so extreme that
           | any limitations on anyone's freedom seem unfair.  Socrates
           | points out that when freedom is taken to such an extreme it
           | produces its opposite, slavery (563e-564a).  The tyrant comes
           | about by presenting himself as a champion of the people
           | against the class of the few people who are wealthy
           | (565d-566a).  The tyrant is forced to commit a number of acts
           | to gain and retain power: accuse people falsely, attack his
           | kinsmen, bring people to trial under false pretenses, kill
           | many people, exile many people, and purport to cancel the
           | debts of the poor to gain their support (565e-566a).  The
           | tyrant eliminates the rich, brave, and wise people in the
           | city since he perceives them as threats to his power (567c).
           | Socrates indicates that the tyrant faces the dilemma to
           | either live with worthless people or with good people who may
           | eventually depose him and chooses to live with worthless
           | people (567d).  The tyrant ends up using mercenaries as his
           | guards since he cannot trust any of the citizens (567d-e).
           | The tyrant also needs a very large army and will spend the
           | city's money (568d-e), and will not hesitate to kill members
           | of his own family if they resist his ways (569b-c).
           | 
           | This summary matches my recollection more closely than yours.
           | Could you please quote primary sources on what exactly you
           | mean by "Plato's description of social decline?"
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | But influencers are by default distributed and don't really
         | need to be in a single place. Most of their collabs are in
         | luxurious venues around the world (Because we live in a world
         | worshipping rich stuff but that s another matter)
         | 
         | Plus AI porn is already a thing
        
         | aforwardslash wrote:
         | > why Hollywood became the Earth's center of cultural gravity
         | post-WW2
         | 
         | The reason why Hollywood even exists is because it was a way of
         | escaping the enforcement of patents and royalties. And it is
         | easy being the cultural center of the western world when
         | everything other cultural-relevant city in the western
         | hemisphere is somewhat in ruins. Other than that, the lettering
         | is a racist monument of a bygone era.
         | 
         | > You may argue that these people aren't of such import, but I
         | would beg to differ
         | 
         | I'm not a US citizen, but lets face it - there is some irony in
         | seeing some scientists fleeing for abroad offers, some probably
         | deported, and having influencers or glorified strippers
         | benefiting from some ill-thought program.
         | 
         | > These people shape the culture that the young people around
         | you consume.
         | 
         | Do you have kids? I do. People don't give 2 f** about Hollywood
         | or their "stars". Maybe in america. We have our own clowns
         | here, and 15 minutes of fame doesn't require being predated on
         | by some director (thankfully). My daughter couldn't name a
         | single actor even if she wanted to - because movies are
         | (mostly) dead, and series are a commodity. And I'm not saying
         | this as some weirdo who doesn't own a TV or something - we have
         | Disney, SkyShowTime, HBO, Amazon, etc. Its just "kids dont care
         | about that anymore".
         | 
         | > They create the memes of six-seven-ification So, do you know
         | what that means exactly? Are you a Skrilla's fan? Just asking,
         | because from the tone of your response, you seem to have no
         | idea of the meaning - just like kids saying "theez nuts" or
         | whatever.
        
           | jonahrd wrote:
           | I think you misunderstood GP's point, that it's now the
           | _influencers_ and social media stars who are shaping culture.
           | Not Hollywood or its stars.
        
         | sakopov wrote:
         | Man we're making some giant leaps equating early Hollywood
         | talent with a bunch of modern day internet hoes.
        
           | RealityVoid wrote:
           | Are we? It feels the same just this time you're the old
           | person and it's your turn to disapprove instead of being in
           | the cultural wave.
        
         | mikkupikku wrote:
         | All of the exotic acting talent in the world won't save an
         | industry that's forgotten the very basics of how to make a good
         | movie.
        
       | superfrank wrote:
       | It's funny, early on it says
       | 
       | > The O-1 category includes the O-1A, which is designated for
       | individuals with extraordinary ability in the sciences,
       | education, business or athletics and the O-1B, reserved for those
       | with "extraordinary ability or achievement".
       | 
       | Then later it says
       | 
       | > The O-1B visa, once reserved for Hollywood titans and superstar
       | musicians, has evolved over the years.
       | 
       | I understand those two aren't necessarily contradictory, but the
       | wording of the first sentence paints a very different mental
       | picture than the second one (at least it did for me), especially
       | since they throw in the O-1A and then almost exclusively talk
       | about people applying for the O-1B after that.
       | 
       | Personally, I don't want the US choosing to give visas to
       | influencers over scientists, but if this visa was already being
       | heavily used to bring in actors, musicians, and athletes I don't
       | see what the hubbub is about. I don't use TikTok or OnlyFans and
       | I don't find e-sports entertaining, but I have a hard time
       | arguing that a screen actor, Victoria's Secret model, or soccer
       | player should be worthy of a visa and a social media star,
       | OnlyFans model, or a professional Counter Strike player shouldn't
       | is not. It's all just entertainment.
        
         | tonyhart7 wrote:
         | basically, US Gov want to tax these ultra rich OnlyFans "model"
         | 
         | that's why they accept so much, the circulation of money would
         | bring an enormous currency more than "traditional" job ever
         | could
        
           | petterroea wrote:
           | I think it's fair to say with the newly evolving markets,
           | governments are fighting to house them and tax them
        
         | lanyard-textile wrote:
         | Entertainment is an industry :)
         | 
         | It would be unwise to filter out the fun people. We'd all
         | become a bunch of unfun nerds.
        
           | readthenotes1 wrote:
           | Kinda funny this comment is downvoted!
        
           | hamburglar wrote:
           | Sir, this is HN. Being an unfun nerd is practically a
           | prerequisite.
        
             | verst wrote:
             | Speak for yourself :)
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | It's the difference in difficulty for the criteria.
         | 
         | https://www.pathlawgroup.com/o1b-visa-requirements/
         | For all other candidates, at least three of the following
         | criteria must be met in order to qualify for the O1B visa:
         | Having been or will be performing a lead or starring role in
         | productions or events which have a distinguished national or
         | international reputation (as evidenced by critical reviews,
         | advertisements, press releases, publications contracts, or
         | endorsements)         Critical reviews or other published
         | material in professional or major trade publications or in the
         | major media by or about the applicant which show that the
         | applicant has achieved national or international recognition or
         | achievements         Evidence of performance in a lead,
         | starring or critical role for organizations or establishments
         | with distinguished reputations         Evidence of a record of
         | major commercial or critically acclaimed successes in the
         | performing arts, as shown by box office receipts or record,
         | cassette, compact disk, or video sales         Evidence of
         | significant recognition for achievements from organizations,
         | government agencies, or other recognized experts in the field
         | Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other
         | significantly high remuneration for services in relation to
         | others         Other comparable evidence (This category is not
         | available for those in the motion picture industry)
         | 
         | For traditional arts, you've gotta be _good_.
         | 
         | For an influencer... some number of anonymous followers?
         | 
         | There are certainly _some_ that would qualify... but it they
         | should be held to the same standards as others.
        
           | erichocean wrote:
           | Seeing as how it's is trivial to buy followers, that metric
           | should be completely abandoned, it's not legitimate.
        
             | smithoc wrote:
             | It's maybe slightly less trivial to do, but still
             | incredibly common to buy awards, recognition, press
             | releases, positive reviews and commentary in publications.
             | 
             | You might be shocked to find out how much the performers
             | being written about in magazines or discussed on TV shows
             | is a direct line to the production company promoting them.
             | Similar for awards.
        
               | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
               | Shouldn't be shocked, really. This is exactly what people
               | pay PR companies for.
        
             | yencabulator wrote:
             | Money is an option, regardless. EB-5 is about $1M invested
             | into your own business, 10 people hired.
        
           | barbazoo wrote:
           | For a Youtube influencer I can see them meet 3 of the
           | criteria by showing their influence on others, money earned,
           | Youtube awards for viewership (by Google!). Maybe some
           | platforms lend themselves more to being used for this sort of
           | evidence than others.
           | 
           | - Evidence of a record of major commercial or critically
           | acclaimed successes in the performing arts, as shown by box
           | office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video
           | sales
           | 
           | - Evidence of significant recognition for achievements from
           | organizations, government agencies, or other recognized
           | experts in the field
           | 
           | - Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other
           | significantly high remuneration for services in relation to
           | others
        
             | aiauthoritydev wrote:
             | - Youtube awards do not count towards the awards criteria.
             | The award has to be for being highly selective not linked
             | to mere subscribers.
        
           | zdw wrote:
           | I wonder people who have enough karma on the HN leaderboard
           | would count...
        
             | falcor84 wrote:
             | Wait, HN has a leaderboard?
        
               | reactordev wrote:
               | _edit_
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders
        
               | dewey wrote:
               | See "Lists" in the footer:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/lists
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | Huh.
        
               | airstrike wrote:
               | I never knew when I'd stop posting, but now I have a
               | target
        
           | gowld wrote:
           | > For traditional arts, you've gotta be good.
           | 
           | > > advertisements, press releases, publications contracts,
           | or endorsements
           | 
           | > > box office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or
           | video sales
           | 
           | > > Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other
           | significantly high remuneration for services in relation to
           | others
           | 
           | I fail to see the distinction you are trying to draw.
           | Commercial value and celebrity has always been one of the
           | metrics of "achievement".
           | 
           | The overall gist is that the visa application should be
           | someone who is not easily replaced by an existing local
           | worker that can generate similar value.
        
             | shagie wrote:
             | The specifics of the law are:
             | 
             | 8 CFR 214.2(o)(3) ( https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/pa
             | rt-214/section-214.2#... )                   Extraordinary
             | ability in the field of arts   means distinction.
             | Distinction means a high level of achievement in the field
             | of arts evidenced by a degree of skill and recognition
             | substantially above that ordinarily encountered to the
             | extent that a person described as prominent is renowned,
             | leading, or well-known in the field of arts.
             | Extraordinary ability in the field of science, education,
             | business, or athletics   means a level of expertise
             | indicating that the person is one of the small percentage
             | who have arisen to the very top of the field of endeavor.
             | Extraordinary achievement   with respect to motion picture
             | and television productions, as commonly defined in the
             | industry, means a very high level of accomplishment in the
             | motion picture or television industry evidenced by a degree
             | of skill and recognition significantly above that
             | ordinarily encountered to the extent that the person is
             | recognized as outstanding, notable, or leading in the
             | motion picture or television field.
             | 
             | The key is that this is _extraordinary_. About 20,000 O1B
             | visas across all fields ( https://www.passright.com/how-
             | many-o-1-visas-are-issued-each... )
             | 
             | This isn't a local worker thing (the H visas) but rather
             | bringing the best and brightest from across the world to
             | the United States.
             | 
             | https://www.hio.harvard.edu/o-1-visa-individuals-
             | extraordina...
             | 
             | > The O-1 visa is a temporary work visa designated for
             | individuals who have achieved and sustained national or
             | international acclaim for extraordinary ability in the
             | sciences, arts, education, business or athletics, or
             | individuals who have demonstrated a record of extraordinary
             | achievement in the motion picture and television
             | industries.
             | 
             | > O-1 Extraordinary Ability visa status is reserved for
             | those who are among the small percentage of experts who
             | have risen to the top of their field. The approval of an
             | O-1 petition by the United States Citizenship & Immigration
             | Services (USCIS) decides whether an individual qualifies
             | for O-1 classification. This classification requires a
             | substantial amount of evidence. The O-1 is a very
             | complicated visa category subject to high levels of
             | scrutiny by the U.S. government. Due to the complexity, the
             | O-1 visa is used very infrequently.
        
           | jama211 wrote:
           | A lot of youtube influencers are damn good at entertainment
           | though, and a lot of "traditional media" entertainers are
           | truely horrid. Ever seen a reality tv show? lol
        
             | apparent wrote:
             | ...or anything with a laugh track? I tried some show a
             | couple years back and was shocked to find that those still
             | exist. I discovered it's a great signal of a show that I
             | would not want to watch.
        
           | randycupertino wrote:
           | There's a boy band, Boy Throb who specifically leveraged visa
           | application in their recent content, and their immigration
           | attorney advised the visa would be approved when they got
           | 1,000,000 followers. They filmed themselves singing and
           | dancing outside the US Immigration office to help one of
           | their members applications.
           | 
           | Their visa application content is rather silly/absurd:
           | 
           | https://www.tiktok.com/@boy.throb/video/7572273147743980831
           | 
           | https://www.tiktok.com/@boy.throb/video/7567806911580622110
           | 
           | https://www.tiktok.com/@boy.throb/video/7584876341267270943
        
           | cm2187 wrote:
           | Well if your audience is larger than an average CNN show, and
           | you earn north of a million a year, don't you qualify?
        
         | ndriscoll wrote:
         | It's not "just entertainment". We want extraordinary athletes
         | and musicians to inspire people and show them what humans are
         | capable of. Extraordinary prostitutes are generally not
         | inspiring people in the way that most people probably would
         | like society to move. It's fine to place different amounts of
         | cultural value on these things and not remain neutral about the
         | worth of all possible human endeavors.
         | 
         | When someone describes themselves as an "influencer", it is
         | entirely appropriate to ask what sort of influence they're
         | having, and whether we want that.
        
           | tehlike wrote:
           | +1. While supreme court defines the likes of porn as freedom
           | of expression, it's a different thing for a country to want
           | different kinds of professions to be more common through its
           | immigration system.
        
         | jll29 wrote:
         | For what it's worth, as a O-1 scientist you have to provide
         | evidence that you:
         | 
         | ...are a member of scholarly/professional organizations;
         | 
         | ...have published original research works scientifically and
         | internationally (peer reviewed publications);
         | 
         | ...that you have judged the work of others (supervised and/or
         | examined Ph.D. candidates);
         | 
         | ...that you have consulted to governments;
         | 
         | ...that you have repeatedly been invited as guest speaker at
         | conferences, trade fairs or universities;
         | 
         | ...that you won major international scholarships and awards
         | (e.g. best paper awards at conferences, Masters's/doctoral
         | scholarships from prestigious universities like Oxford,
         | Cambridge, Harvard or MIT;
         | 
         | ...that three referees that are themselves O-1 level
         | equivalents deem you worthy of receiving O-1 status;
         | 
         | ...that you are a named inventor on patent applications and
         | granted patents;
         | 
         | ...that you have received media coverage;
         | 
         | ...that you abilities are reflected in higher than typical
         | compensation/salary/remuneration;
         | 
         | ...that you won major international scholarships and awards
         | (e.g. best paper awards at conferences, Masters's/doctoral
         | scholarships from prestigious universities like Oxford,
         | Cambridge, Harvard or MIT; or
         | 
         | ...that you have published significant works (i.e., works that
         | created impact through citations, business creation, or
         | software systems using the methods described therein).
         | 
         | Usually, from an official ist similar to the above (which I re-
         | wrote from memory here), three out of nine or so checkboxes is
         | the lowest bar for an O-1, and if you tick all of them and work
         | with a specialist law firm, then it should be a slam dunk; my
         | O-1 took about six months from application to grant back in
         | 2008 (no payments of any "expediting fees" if they exist were
         | made as far as I know).
        
         | volkk wrote:
         | At what point do we ever ask ourselves -- "what kind of culture
         | do we want to create for the future of our country?" I don't
         | think a pro soccer player is comparable to an onlyfans
         | contributor. I would much prefer my future kids to be inspired
         | by Cristiano Ronaldo than someone baring themselves on camera.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Yet CR7 is routinely photographed baring himself on camera,
           | which is one of the reasons he's so popular.
        
           | hnlmorg wrote:
           | If what you're just concerned about people "baring themselves
           | on camera" then they can continue to do that without
           | emigrating to America and it would still affect your culture.
           | The internet is global after all.
           | 
           | Also, it's going to take more than a few thousand immigrants
           | a year to affect the culture of a country as populous as
           | America.
        
             | NewJazz wrote:
             | The internet is global, but having folks in our midst who
             | make a living that way has more of an effect on our culture
             | than if they are just on the internet.
        
               | hnlmorg wrote:
               | Why?
               | 
               | I actually worked in the adult industry earlier in my
               | career so have a better insight than most. and I can tell
               | you that these models are just normal people like you an
               | I. They aren't interested in corrupting your children nor
               | throwing wild sex parties in public spaces.
        
               | NewJazz wrote:
               | Just because they don't have ill intent doesn't mean the
               | fact that some of the most highly paid members of our
               | society being sex workers sends a message about what kind
               | of skills and assets are valuable, and which aren't as
               | valuable.
        
               | hnlmorg wrote:
               | Unfortunately that ship has already sailed and
               | immigration wasn't the reason.
               | 
               | It turns out that American citizens can work in the adult
               | industry too and it's not just immigrants who are capable
               | of earning money from getting naked on camera. ;)
        
               | NewJazz wrote:
               | Isn't that argument just a form of the sunk cost fallacy?
        
               | hnlmorg wrote:
               | Only if you demonise the adult entertainment industry,
               | which I wasn't.
        
               | NewJazz wrote:
               | That's a non sequiter. You said the "ship has sailed", so
               | we shouldn't attempt to reset norms.
        
             | volkk wrote:
             | i mean you said it yourself, the internet is global. those
             | few thousand can have impressions of hundreds of millions.
             | whether they do their cam shows abroad or local matters
             | little. it's the inherent incentivization approved by a
             | government that leads to deeper cultural erosion. if you're
             | in a poor country with no access to education, and your
             | only way into the US is porn, then that's what will
             | ultimately win, rather than incentivizing higher education,
             | etc. And before an argument is made that this will just be
             | a way to get in and then those folks will go and seek PHDs
             | and be productive members of society--i have a bridge to
             | sell you.
        
               | wredcoll wrote:
               | It worked for melania!
        
               | t-3 wrote:
               | Sex sells and everybody knows that. Why should the
               | government use antiquated-at-best moral codes to
               | discriminate against people who will increase the global
               | influence of the country? Cultural exportation and
               | exploitation have been key to US soft power for nearly a
               | century.
        
               | volkk wrote:
               | crack also sells, amongst many other things that are
               | inherently horrible for broad modern society.
               | 
               | > Why should the government use antiquated-at-best moral
               | codes to discriminate against people who will increase
               | the global influence of the country
               | 
               | this is a very loaded statement that assumes that
               | everyone is in agreement that proliferating and rewarding
               | cam models is some kind of inherent good. there's nothing
               | antiquated morally with simply not rewarding it. i'm not
               | stating to ban it outright. there's always use in it at
               | the long tail of society
        
           | aforwardslash wrote:
           | what is the difference?
        
           | inanutshellus wrote:
           | The other replies to this show a form of argumentation that's
           | always fascinated me.
           | 
           | You say "We should encourage X over Y" and the retorts are
           | * "Y will still exist"          * "Y can still be encouraged
           | separately"         * "You should tell me the difference
           | between X and Y"         * "Hey, I found an X that sometimes
           | acts vaguely similar to Y!"
           | 
           | None directly disagree with the original point, but they do
           | _imply_ fault in the original reasoning without providing any
           | proof or requiring any effort.
           | 
           | The third one is a classic, the _straw man_. A concise
           | implication of error in which a good-faith response would be
           | long-winded and boring comparatively.
           | 
           | To what end?
           | 
           | What are they hoping to get out of disagreeing with someone
           | trying to encouraging our future culture to be one of
           | relative wholesomeness?
           | 
           | ... Why take the time out of one's day to say "well...
           | encouraging X is great and all but you know what's better?
           | passive-aggressively working against anyone that suggests
           | it."?
        
             | volkk wrote:
             | it's low iq pedantry/contrarianism that pervades the tech
             | industry that i refuse to engage with. it's exactly the
             | same people that will bikeshed every feature into the
             | abyss. i agree and appreciate your sentiment.
        
             | labcomputer wrote:
             | It is disappointing that it is so easy to bamboozle HNers
             | with a straw man argument.
             | 
             | The original poster was clearly not making an analogy
             | between professional soccer and only fans creators.
             | 
             | To be explicit, the comparisons were:
             | 
             | Cinematic actors -> TikTok creators
             | 
             | Victoria's Secret model -> only fans creator
             | 
             | Pro soccer -> esports
             | 
             | I fail to see how the culture of our country will be
             | negatively impacted by any of those changes. Comparing
             | Cristiano Renaldo to OnlyFans is a straw man because that
             | specific comparison was never suggested, except by the
             | "rebuttal"
        
               | volkk wrote:
               | I don't believe the rigidity of the comparisons matter
               | within the broad context of my point. Regardless of
               | whether OP didn't directly compare pro soccer to OF, the
               | point is that allowing the degradation of expectations of
               | Visas will only incentivize low effort crap. And yes, one
               | can sit here and argue all day that OF fans, or TikTok
               | creators are the same thing as Victorias secret models or
               | Cinematic actors (and I would argue that's far from true)
               | but I think most of us can all feel societal erosion
               | happening and the decline of average IQs and the fact
               | that a huge generation of growing young adults can barely
               | read. Let's not pretend this has nothing to do with
               | multiple epidemics like porn addiction, gambling, and
               | general disregard of trying to better yourself because
               | 90% of people are using 80% of their days staring at said
               | TikTok creators
        
               | wredcoll wrote:
               | > but I think most of us can all feel societal erosion
               | happening and the decline of average IQs and the fact
               | that a huge generation of growing young adults can barely
               | read. Let's not pretend this has nothing to do with
               | multiple epidemics like porn addiction, gambling, and
               | general disregard of trying to better yourself because
               | 90% of people are using 80% of their days staring at said
               | TikTok creators
               | 
               | None of this is true, but boy, it sure does feel good to
               | believe.
               | 
               | I wish you, and people in general, would be more willing
               | to look for something like truth instead of whatever
               | feels good at the moment.
        
               | volkk wrote:
               | pointless comment that doesn't say anything. but, i do
               | wish i could live in the imaginary world you live in
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | I think before we suggest whether policy is good or bad,
               | we need to agree on the meaning of vague terms like
               | "societal erosion." What about society is eroding? You
               | mention IQ and literacy. What about tolerance, open-
               | mindedness, compassion, equality, financial success...
               | Some of these things are going up and some are going
               | down. Are there other dimension to "societal erosion?"
        
               | volkk wrote:
               | i do think it's important to define what a healthy
               | society looks like, but I'm going to guess everyone will
               | have a very different answer. It's a topic that likely
               | doesn't have any kind of straightforward response with
               | unanimous agreement.
               | 
               | I would argue that beyond basics like food, shelter and
               | protection of human rights, we should strive for more
               | noble pursuits as society. I'm not even religious
               | whatsoever, but I think the proliferation of certain
               | vices like sex/gambling/drugs is probably a net negative
               | for society. They certainly have their roles in the long
               | tail, but overall a society that is caught up in rampant
               | dopamine chasing is a distracted, doomed society. We
               | should always be yearning. We should be paving a road
               | that is a better one for our future generations. Societal
               | erosion is creating short term profit/happiness at the
               | expense of long term thinking. America has become the
               | king of this. You can see it everywhere, from the types
               | of businesses people create (e.g pyramid schemes in the
               | form of courses, or the shovel makers that create
               | businesses to proliferate said pyramid schemes) to what
               | is currently valued by the growing generation. I can keep
               | going and going, but I'll leave it here. I hope I
               | somewhat made my point. I'm sure many will disagree, and
               | that is why this country is on its way downwards. The few
               | smart will own and create a lot of value for themselves,
               | we'll likely have a few trillionaires, and the majority
               | will be bumbling idiots that can barely read. We're not
               | there yet, but we're well on the way there
        
           | iwontberude wrote:
           | Never, none of this shit matters
        
           | XorNot wrote:
           | What's wrong with an OnlyFans contributor? It's a self-
           | employed job that services a demand within the economy and
           | pays taxes. It's pretty close to the _ideal_ job an immigrant
           | can have since the product is already globalized but the
           | revenue is not - i.e. an OnlyFans influencer with an American
           | audience who moves to America is now bringing that income
           | back into the economy via taxes and spending, _or_ if they
           | have an international audience they are attracting foreign
           | dollars into your economy and strengthening your currency
           | position.
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | Sex work (OF or otherwise) is unsavory, that's what. You
             | can't stop it but there's zero reason we should be going
             | out of our way to grant visas to sex workers.
        
               | gjm11 wrote:
               | > there's zero reason
               | 
               | The comment you are replying to articulated, I think
               | rather clearly, one reason why maybe we should.
               | 
               | I think what you actually mean is that the reasons not to
               | ("sex work is unsavory") outweigh the reasons to ("sex
               | work is going to happen anyway and if some of the people
               | doing it move to the US then they will spend their money
               | and pay their taxes in the US and contribute to the
               | economy there").
               | 
               | Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but I don't think
               | you should say "there's zero reason" when in fact there
               | obviously are reasons and you just think other
               | countervailing reasons matter more.
        
             | bluescrn wrote:
             | Extracting money from horny young men with an illusion of
             | intimacy/friendship just doesn't seem ethical. Or good for
             | society as a whole.
             | 
             | Especially when you've got streamers using sites like
             | Twitch, aimed at younger gamers, promoting their OnlyFans
             | porn.
             | 
             | The regular porn industry is bad enough
             | (https://traffickinghub.com/), but at least the content is
             | non-interactive, there's no pretence of
             | friendship/connection.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | Most users understand that there is no real friendship.
               | 
               | Just like people understand that the violence in movies
               | is fake.
               | 
               | What makes an onlyfans contributor worse than an actor in
               | a violent movie?
        
           | eudamoniac wrote:
           | They don't believe in the concept of a culture improving or
           | declining. It's an axiom of a certain ideology that no
           | culture can be inferior to another.
        
           | majani wrote:
           | The more I hear about culture, the more I think it seems like
           | the new age mysticism of the right
        
           | TitaRusell wrote:
           | You should look into Ivanka Trump. It's quite funny.
        
           | testacc74 wrote:
           | I see no difference in Cristiano Ronaldo and a porn star and
           | an influencer and whatever you name it. They are all idols
           | that sell stories for people to project their own thoughts
           | and desires onto and get emotional. I would be more worry
           | about my kid believing in celebrities, regardless of who they
           | are. And the American mainstream culture is filthy anyway. As
           | the old French joke once said the difference of yogurt and
           | the us is that if you leave yogurt for a coupled of hundred
           | years they would develop culture.
        
             | mpalmer wrote:
             | In the interest of fairness, can you really say different
             | about "mainstream" French culture?
        
               | testacc74 wrote:
               | Well I don't know much about French aside from the joke
               | but Cannes obviously has way better taste than Hollywood.
               | 
               | The neat part is, with social media and global internet,
               | culture are generally degenerating regardless of
               | countries. If I were American citizen(gladly Im not) I
               | might as well just let them in to get some tax money, and
               | potentially see if the industry can be used as a soft
               | propaganda machine. Just like Hollywood.
        
             | tehlike wrote:
             | You would not have a lot of trouble with your kid trying to
             | be best in basketball, or football, and make a name for it.
             | 
             | I don't think the same would apply to OF or porn. Totally
             | different things.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | Which one did Melania qualify for? Type O 1A or O 1B?
        
           | ThinkingGuy wrote:
           | E-1, according to Snopes, citing the Washington Post:
           | 
           | https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/07/02/melania-trump-
           | einstei...
        
         | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
         | Tale as old as time.
         | 
         | Dial M for Melania.
        
         | mattfrommars wrote:
         | I've been thinking lately a lot of female pornographic
         | actresses on sites such as Brazzers don't have US origins.
         | 
         | Does anyone know on which work visa do models come in then? It
         | can't be H1B...
        
           | aiauthoritydev wrote:
           | O1. It was specifically designed for this sort of professions
           | and sports. For example when Chess Grandmasters from India
           | come to USA.
        
           | onraglanroad wrote:
           | But many are. Stormy Daniels, for example, is American.
        
         | aiauthoritydev wrote:
         | I am not a lawyer. But OF models using O1 visa is totally fine.
         | It is the intended purpose. The visa itself is meant for
         | researchers, scholars who have job offers, athletes, actors
         | etc. it has no cap and clear criteria. OF models who make a lot
         | of money should totally qualify for this.
         | 
         | Also this visa in uncapped so giving visas to OF models does
         | not take away anything from scientists and others.
         | 
         | O visa's original intent was to help pretty ladies from Eastern
         | Europe to be brought into the country as indentured workers.
         | That is why it is so easy to get this visa for an actor or a
         | fashion model but very tough to get someone for their research.
         | 
         | So all this is working as intended.
        
           | Jare wrote:
           | I thought the reason for this to be a visa is because their
           | fields' activities were in-person (acting in
           | movies/plays/shows, academic life & research, sports training
           | & leagues, etc). A streamer / OF worker is not like that as
           | far as I know (but e-sports is). So this is purely to bring
           | people with money and/or influence, nothing exceptional
           | except the number of 0's.
        
             | whaleofatw2022 wrote:
             | > A streamer / OF worker is not like that as far as I know
             | (but e-sports is).
             | 
             | Well Streamer vs Influencer can be different potentially,
             | that said I can think of one example even for video game
             | streamers, that being the AGDQ charity event where
             | speedrunners/streamers do stuff live for charity at the
             | event space.
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | > I thought the reason for this to be a visa is because
             | their fields' activities were in-person (acting in
             | movies/plays/shows, academic life & research, sports
             | training & leagues, etc). A streamer / OF worker is not
             | like that as far as I know
             | 
             | An OnlyFans worker may make the bulk of her money by
             | meeting fans in person for dates. That can't be done over
             | the internet.
        
               | t-3 wrote:
               | She's not really an "OnlyFans worker" in that case.
               | OnlyFans is merely an advertising venue for an escort or
               | prostitution service.
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | Wait until you hear about porn stars!
        
               | dessimus wrote:
               | While possible to be for physical sex work, I think the
               | previous commenter meant by meeting fans, would be like
               | at a meet-and-greet at a Con, so they can further
               | increase the parasocial relationship with the people
               | giving them subscriptions, signing autographs. Also, they
               | may be doing collabs with other content creators, just as
               | comedians and actors will be on each others podcasts.
        
               | eyeris wrote:
               | Think it's likely for some OF is the sidegig and for
               | others escorting is the sidegig.
               | 
               | Both would build brand, but I'd imagine making it big on
               | OF streamer has a much higher cap than making it big as
               | an escort.
        
             | usef- wrote:
             | It increases the countries' soft power if people around the
             | world watch content from there.
             | 
             | Eg. a self-reinforcing cycle that you get the best from the
             | other immigrant categories arriving because they choose the
             | country where everything "seems to be happening".
        
             | neilv wrote:
             | What I know from news articles is that some of them openly
             | "escort", like some traditional porn stars did more
             | quietly. The fame on the screen can be brand-building for
             | the even more lucrative in-person work.
             | 
             | As one said in a quote, regarding AI threat and crumbling
             | economies: "The oldest profession will be the last
             | profession."
             | 
             | If some of them want to move to the US right now, from
             | currently healthier countries, one reason may be that
             | social inequality means there are many deep-pocketed
             | customers able to pay 5 figures for a weekend experience.
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | The decline of the US means that there will be
               | increasingly fewer deep-pocketed customers able to pay 5
               | figures for anything.
               | 
               | Those who come to the US with enough money on the bank
               | will have access to a lifestyle and experiences that are
               | becoming more and more exclusive, which makes for great
               | content for the peasant class to consume on their phones.
        
               | Majora320 wrote:
               | > The decline of the US means that there will be
               | increasingly fewer deep-pocketed customers able to pay 5
               | figures for anything.
               | 
               | Those at the top are doing very well, it's those without
               | access to capital who are struggling. America in decline
               | looks like a bifurcated economy where low-paying jobs
               | catering to the desires of the wealthy take up an
               | increasingly large share of the economy. You can decide
               | for yourself to what extent this is already happening.
        
             | dijit wrote:
             | > A streamer / OF [may not have to be in person]
             | 
             | From what I understand about OF, it's not just people
             | posting lewds, sometimes there are other actors in the
             | media.
             | 
             | Having access to established actors and uh...
             | "collaborating" with them would require being there in
             | person I would guess.
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | As I understand it [1], usually if you try to cross the
               | border declaring you intend to engage in sex work, they
               | turn you away. Some combination of prudishness and
               | concern about trafficking.
               | 
               | For there to be a special sex worker visa is a surprise,
               | to me.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.pace-society.org/wp-
               | content/uploads/2023/06/3194...
        
               | MadnessASAP wrote:
               | It's strange, but is it _really_ surprising? It 's not
               | like hypocrisy and moat building are new things in
               | American politics.
               | 
               | These days I wouldn't even be surprised to discover it
               | was intentional. Some person or group wanted to ensure
               | they could engage in sex trafficking with a superficially
               | legal cover, but didn't want it to actually be legal.
        
           | pb7 wrote:
           | Why does someone doing OF need to be in the country? You can
           | upload pictures from anywhere.
        
             | joe_mamba wrote:
             | Because once you move to live in the US (or any other
             | country) then you become tax liable there and every gov
             | wants more net taxpayers.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | Yeah this is the reason. People who earn a lot of money
               | pay taxes and aren't a burden on any social services.
               | More, please.
        
         | ReptileMan wrote:
         | Being able to shove 5 inch diameter dildo 12 inches up your
         | rectum is extraordinary ability no matter how you slice and
         | dice it. Useless - sure.
        
           | anukin wrote:
           | If you slice and dice it, it's not 5 inch or 12 inch.
           | 
           | Sorry couldn't help
        
         | lenerdenator wrote:
         | I think back when it was just actors, musicians, athletes, etc.
         | it was in a time when there were gatekeepers for whether or not
         | those people had any actual talent in an art.
         | 
         | Whether or not those gatekeepers were right is another matter,
         | but there was some guy in an office in a skyscraper who you
         | _had_ to impress, and if you did, you could get in.
         | 
         | Now, that guy's effectively gone. Aiden Ross, Jack Doherty -
         | that kind of guy - couldn't have impressed a big wig. But now,
         | they don't have to. They have to make people pay attention to
         | them on YouTube/Instagram/TikTok/Twitch, and that's it. And
         | they do that and they can get people to give them insane money
         | to do so because they want access to that audience. Quality
         | doesn't matter anymore.
        
         | apparent wrote:
         | I guess the question is why do virtual/internet stars need to
         | be in the US? Actors or musicians would have primarily
         | performed live or been recorded live, in US cities. But an OF
         | model? Why does this person need to be physically located in
         | the US at all? What is the benefit to the person, or to the US?
        
           | justinhj wrote:
           | Tax revenue
        
             | apparent wrote:
             | What is the average turnover/tenure of a camgirl? I'd think
             | that most popular camgirls come and go pretty quickly, such
             | that giving them visas that were formerly reserved for
             | performing musicians would not necessarily make sense.
        
           | xp84 wrote:
           | Benefit to the person is probably a path to citizenship and
           | more economic opportunities (especially since being a camgirl
           | is a young person's career with almost no long-term
           | prospects)
           | 
           | Benefit to the USA, being generous, is that those earnings of
           | the camgirl may then be spent in the US instead of flowing
           | overseas. At least some of it will.
           | 
           | Critics would rightly point out though that importing
           | thousands of camgirls increases demand for apartments (and
           | even more than the typical person because I bet they're less
           | likely to live with roommates than a typical woman of the
           | same age) and we have a massive housing crisis in all cities.
           | Maybe if the camgirls want to move to the rust belt or
           | something, it could still work out net positive.
        
             | Lord_Zero wrote:
             | I would like to point out the long term prospects part may
             | not be true for high earners. Some models make a senior
             | software engineers annual salary in a matter of months.
             | Many of these people can retire and live off investments at
             | age 35.
        
           | emmp wrote:
           | The benefit to the person is going to vary. For one reason or
           | another they prefer to be in US rather than wherever they
           | currently are. I'm sure each person has their own unique set
           | of reasons, but it's not hard to imagine.
           | 
           | A benefit for the US is increased GDP, tax revenue, etc.
        
           | TacticalCoder wrote:
           | > What is the benefit to the person, or to the US?
           | 
           | Not that I encourage it but... Obviously an OF model moving
           | to the US means US users viewing that person now stop sending
           | money abroad. And people from all over the world watching
           | that model now send money to the US.
           | 
           | It's not just tax revenues: it's shifting the balance of
           | money in the US's favor. If an OF model makes $10m a year and
           | pays $2m in taxes, it's not just $2m in tax revenues for the
           | US: it's also in addition to that $8m that are now
           | spent/staying in the US.
        
         | 6r17 wrote:
         | The painting of idiocracy hits hard doesn't it ?
        
         | dnautics wrote:
         | arguably the O-1B is more necessary than the O-1A. If you
         | didn't have an O-1B you couldn't have a bjork come and give a
         | concert in the US and get paid for it, you couldn't have an
         | emma thompson come and shoot for a hollywood film and get paid
         | for it, you couldn't hold ANY major international sporting
         | events, etc.
        
       | stefap2 wrote:
       | Actually, it falls under OF-1 visa category.
        
       | LudwigNagasena wrote:
       | If you are a professional in a sphere like engineering, then
       | getting eg 10k views on your videos is very remarkable and acts
       | as a indirect proof of acclaim. But when it is the whole metric,
       | then it just overvalues public professions where in itself 10k
       | views is nothing remarkable. That's the core issue as far as I
       | understand.
       | 
       | (But even for professionals, it's a very gameable metric. There
       | is a whole industry that helps getting published material and
       | appearances for O-1 applications.)
        
         | riazrizvi wrote:
         | Proof of interest, not acclaim. And online interest is heavily
         | skewed to the narrow activities of entertainment and education
         | - professional community communication happens but in far
         | smaller numbers vs the other two.
        
       | TZubiri wrote:
       | "Whoever knowingly transports any individual in interstate or
       | foreign commerce, or in any Territory or Possession of the United
       | States, with intent that such individual engage in prostitution,
       | or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged
       | with a criminal offense, shall be fined under this title or
       | imprisoned not more than five years, or both"
        
         | potato3732842 wrote:
         | You see comrade, the government represents all of us, so when
         | the government deems something beneficial and worth doing we
         | all benefit /s
         | 
         | Me dumping oil on the ground -> bad.
         | 
         | megacorp paying some engineers to make up a number for just how
         | much oil is ok to dump on the ground and paying for government
         | permission -> good
         | 
         | Diddy flying hoes around -> bad
         | 
         | OF models paying the .gov to fly around -> good
         | 
         | (I'm joking here, but not nearly as much as I wish I was)
        
           | TZubiri wrote:
           | >OF models paying the .gov to fly around -> good
           | 
           | Yes, with Republican govs, they can pay the government
           | directly for a Golden Visa.
           | 
           | But with Democrat governments it's a bit more fair, they have
           | to pay an immigration lawyer at 300$/hr with John money to
           | get in instead. /s
           | 
           | At least it's better than them going in with a B1 visa and
           | doing whatever.
           | 
           | Sorry for the politics dang.
        
         | cwillu wrote:
         | Filming porn isn't prostitution nor a sexual activity for which
         | any person can be charged with a criminal offense. Hope this
         | helps.
        
           | gowld wrote:
           | The area seems greyer when, as happens in some operations,
           | one person A is getting paid to have sex, and the other
           | person B having the sex is paying person A, even if B is
           | filming the sex and selling the video.
        
             | cwillu wrote:
             | If they wanted to make that point, then they should have
             | made that point instead of quoting a snippet of legislation
             | of dubious relevance to an article that devoted more lines
             | to chess influencers, fashion influencers, and musicians,
             | than porn stars.
        
           | aforwardslash wrote:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlbAMdDry4A
        
           | TZubiri wrote:
           | I think it's naive to think that these girls are only very
           | strictly selling feet images and are not in the business of
           | having sex for money as well.
           | 
           | Especially when you consider the top-heavy success
           | distribution. Sure there's influencers that have 100M views,
           | but theres thousands of influencers with 300 views, are they
           | going to be just happy with selling pictures for 10 bucks? Or
           | will they follow the whales until they are paid to be flown
           | into the prostitution assembly line, with or without visas.
        
             | pcthrowaway wrote:
             | Apparently porn is sex for money, but legally it's not
             | prostitution. So in that case, these OF influencers can
             | just bill their private services as coaching lessons for
             | aspiring actors.
             | 
             | No one said law was consistent or made sense.
        
       | password54321 wrote:
       | Remnants of a late stage empire. The US peaked out over 20 years
       | ago.
        
         | fHr wrote:
         | true
        
       | phkahler wrote:
       | Why do they need a visa for remote work?
        
         | throwttt wrote:
         | They wanna taste american life. Reality is gonna hit hard
         | sooner or later
        
         | mcintyre1994 wrote:
         | Because they want to stay longer than tourist visas allow. And
         | because most places (US definitely included) don't let you work
         | remotely on a tourist visa either, with a few exceptions that
         | wouldn't cover them sufficiently.
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | Celebrities are getting visas instead of celebrities? Ok. I don't
       | see the issue.
        
       | drnick1 wrote:
       | > The O-1 category includes the O-1A, which is designated for
       | individuals with extraordinary ability in the sciences,
       | education, business or athletics and the O-1B, reserved for those
       | with "extraordinary ability or achievement".
       | 
       | > My whole thing is being the funny Jewish girl with big boobs.
        
         | rtkwe wrote:
         | The O-1B category is broad because it's mostly entertainment
         | based so there's more squishy room two of the requirements
         | match a Top OF model though.
         | 
         | > Evidence of a record of major commercial or critically
         | acclaimed successes in the performing arts, as shown by box
         | office receipts or record, cassette, compact disk, or video
         | sales
         | 
         | > Evidence of having commanded a high salary or other
         | significantly high remuneration for services in relation to
         | others
         | 
         | A high earning OF model ticks both of those boxes pretty
         | easily. We don't want to put dollar amounts on it to only
         | attract movie stars because other professions don't pay as well
         | would be blocked out and an explicit filter on (heh) explicit
         | O1 visas would be a content based restriction that would (or at
         | least imo should) be a 1A infringement. [0]
         | 
         | https://www.pathlawgroup.com/o1b-visa-requirements/
         | 
         | [0] IMO a 1A restriction to who can come to the country is
         | defacto a restriction on speech in the country.
        
         | gowld wrote:
         | > My whole thing is being the funny Jewish girl with big boobs.
         | 
         | I thought that was Rachel Bloom.
         | 
         | Is she passing the torch to the next generation?
         | 
         | Anyway, it's not that different from having the extraordinary
         | ability of having hand-eye-coordination on a 7-foot frame.
        
       | strongpigeon wrote:
       | I mostly don't care about influencers and OnlyFan, but that...
       | Seems fine to me?
       | 
       | If you managed to amass 1M followers you clearly have strong
       | abilities as an entertainer. The fact that the medium is
       | different than what used to be the norm shouldn't have an impact.
        
         | ericmcer wrote:
         | As a strategy for strengthening our national economy it is
         | great, as a larger cultural/societal marker it is bleak.
        
       | phantom784 wrote:
       | How is "extraordinary ability" defined? At what point does an
       | influencer or OF model (or a traditional actor for that matter)
       | have enough "extortionary ability" to get the visa?
        
       | krautburglar wrote:
       | The hole-one visa... how fitting.
        
       | tdb7893 wrote:
       | Most of the scientists and engineers I know are on different
       | visas. The US has gained a ton from being largely the cultural
       | center of the world so it's good that there's a visa to take in
       | cultural figures (even if I don't personally connect with
       | influencer culture). As social media is new and fairly spread
       | out, especially compared to traditional recipients like models
       | and actors, it seems really unsurprising they are a ton of these
       | now. I would say the problem is less we are taking in influencers
       | and more we aren't accepting other people.
        
       | linhns wrote:
       | Hardly a surprise considering how much more people have entered
       | OF in the last few years.
        
       | voxleone wrote:
       | By 1994, I was in triumphant optimism. I was young-ish, my
       | country was in for its most beautiful decade ever, and the
       | internet seemed to herald a time of final Liberation, with the
       | Earth becoming home to a single, global scientist-philosopher
       | society.
       | 
       | And so, suddenly, we find ourselves mired between traditionalist
       | discomfort and pragmatic acceptance, an unglamorous terminus for
       | earlier dreams of Human synthesis.
        
       | codyklimdev wrote:
       | I wonder how much "OnlyFans models applying for O-1 visas" is
       | just sex trafficking with a thin veneer
        
         | majani wrote:
         | O1 would probably want to see a huge number of followers. An OG
         | model with a large following is someone with a huge amount of
         | agency. Probably the highest agency sex worker of them all.
         | Impossible to traffic
        
       | blackswan101 wrote:
       | America becoming the physical and virtual brothel of the world.
        
       | thisisauserid wrote:
       | Immigrants are taking American handjobs!
        
       | OptionOfT wrote:
       | Interestingly, the O-1 can also be used for Software Engineers.
       | 
       | Given the amount of unemployed Software Engineers, it makes sense
       | to reduce H1-Bs in that category.
       | 
       | Companies can still hire exceptional people from overseas using
       | this O-1 visa.
        
       | qaq wrote:
       | just make it $ contingent OF models make ordinary income if
       | someone is pulling in several million USD a year they are going
       | to be paying a ton of taxes here. What is the downside?
        
       | psychoslave wrote:
       | Ok, but who else still want to go to USA lately?
       | 
       | I hope the best for every people out there, including every usa
       | citizen, but money alone won't attract every human profile under
       | the sun, and unleashed imperialism which don't even pretend to
       | export democracy anymore is doing nothing good for the the image
       | of the country I'm afraid.
       | 
       | What a world really! Take care everything, might safety and peace
       | remain on you and your relatives.
        
       | TheAlchemist wrote:
       | I struggle to understand who pays for OF content and who follows
       | them ? From what I've read 99% of OF is porn in some form or
       | another. So there are millions of people who create accounts and
       | pay for it - linking their personnal info to this thing ?
       | 
       | As for the visa, it's not surprising and obviously idiotic for
       | the society, but from the 'merit' standpoints it feels about
       | right - if somebody has 10M followers, it's not that different
       | from a radio or tv star.
        
       | lazarus01 wrote:
       | It is for this reason I am grateful to be a gen xr. I was at the
       | end of my 20s when social media blew up, so it wasn't a
       | meaningful part of my personal development. I cannot bring myself
       | to look at IG and the hot mess it serves up daily. A hyper
       | focused lens on the potential of human desperation and stupidity.
       | 
       | I don't hate on the younger generation, I feel bad they grew up
       | with this shit and try to be a positive influence.
       | 
       | I see people of legit talent from doctors, to chemists and
       | musicians dedicate themselves to posting content. What people
       | don't understand is survivor bias. For every success story you
       | read about, how many people are going in reverse and not
       | experiencing social mobility (and get depressed from it).
        
       | jitbit wrote:
       | The title is misleading. It says "dominating" however no sources
       | or percentages are provided. And later in the article it only
       | says "increasingly applying", with just two examples.
       | 
       | I do have a friend (very popular drummer-YouTuber who makes
       | covers, has millions of subs) who did get an O visa because he
       | actually is a, kinda, celebrity, so I guess this is indeed
       | happening occasionally. But nothing is being "dominated" here.
        
         | bigwheels wrote:
         | To be clear: TFA is a thinly veiled legal services
         | advertisement ("submarine" in HN parlance), so "dominated" is
         | being used as a hype-generation / reality distortion term.
         | 
         | That said, the reality of today is so-called influencers and OF
         | sex workers are now becoming a relevant fraction of applicants
         | compared to the past where they represented 0%. Is it possible
         | fixating on the word "dominating" a bit overly pedantic?
         | 
         | There is already a lot going on here without pedantry.
        
         | saalweachter wrote:
         | I would also note that, even if the title is accurate, and
         | (say) 90% of applications are from social media influencers, it
         | _doesn 't even make a claim_ about how many are granted. It
         | could be that countless influencers are applying... and being
         | rejected.
        
       | testfrequency wrote:
       | Says a lot about who actually wants to and is willing to relocate
       | there...
        
         | drstewart wrote:
         | So what does it say about the fact that Europe's immigration is
         | dominated by skill-less and jobless migrants and refugees?
        
           | testfrequency wrote:
           | We are all pretty happy!
           | 
           | Also, I'm sorry you think cam girls and people who #ad
           | carbonated water are considered skilled in the context of
           | work and contributing to society meaningfully..
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | fun-fact: Melania got an "Einstein Visa" shortly after she
       | started dating the president
       | 
       | https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43256318
       | 
       | and the owner of the modeling agency she came from "committed
       | suicide" in prison
        
       | bubblethink wrote:
       | People are getting hung up on definitions of extraordinary. The
       | thing you need to understand is that US immigration is a
       | political blackhole. The main pathways to immigrate to the US are
       | family, misery (asylum, refugee, tps), or luck (diversity).
       | Employment or economic immigration is frowned upon and visas like
       | H-1B are limited and exploitative and still ultimately
       | politically unpopular as the masses don't want to compete. So,
       | that leaves O-1 as an escape hatch for a basic economic
       | immigration visa that won't rile up the masses. Afterall, a chud
       | does not reasonably believe that an influencer or a pornstar is
       | stealing his job. So it goes.
        
       | kwar13 wrote:
       | > "I don't think [people] realize how much work actually goes
       | into it," she said. "You might not agree with the way the money
       | is being made, or what people are watching, but people are still
       | watching and paying for it."
        
       | tamimio wrote:
       | Golden age!!
       | 
       | Try now to convince a young person to become a doctor or an
       | engineer, when an OF individual can make in a day what they will
       | make in 40y, assuming they found a job anyway. Idiocracy was a
       | glimpse into the future, not a movie.
        
       | firefax wrote:
       | Is an O-1 the "model visa"?
       | 
       | Because OF models _are_ models... so I wonder if model management
       | companies are upset about folks selling content directly to
       | consumers without abusive middle management and drumming up
       | outrage to protect their shitty business model.
       | 
       | Say what you want about sites like OF, but at least the
       | performers get a huge chunk of the earnings.
        
       | eli_gottlieb wrote:
       | Oh lovely, we're becoming a Grifters' Republic of Social Media.
        
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