[HN Gopher] Apple Creator Studio
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple Creator Studio
        
       Author : lemonlime227
       Score  : 456 points
       Date   : 2026-01-13 14:14 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | andsoitis wrote:
       | > Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, Pixelmator Pro, Motion, Compressor,
       | and MainStage -- plus new AI features and premium content in
       | Keynote, Pages, and Numbers -- come together in a single
       | subscription
       | 
       | So Apple is copying Adobe's business model?
        
         | boringg wrote:
         | Well really they are copying the original Microsofts suite
         | packaging which everyone has copied over the years! But yes
         | specific they are trying to take market share on Adobe.
         | 
         | Its actually like taking on MS and Adobe together... but they
         | aren't really taking on MS office.
        
         | jpalomaki wrote:
         | Depends on if you are stuck with the subscription for life, or
         | if there's actually a reasonable way to unsubscribe.
        
           | bambax wrote:
           | You're never free to unsubscribe because you become
           | accustomed to the tools, and use the file formats, etc.
           | (That's why I don't do subscription, ever.)
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | When there are no more new buyers to sell devices, or new
         | versions of existing software packages, the only way to keep
         | the curve growing for shareholders and MBAs is to sell
         | subscriptions.
         | 
         | It is also the only way to convince developers to pay for
         | software.
         | 
         | Having a part hosted on some server is so much better than
         | whatever anti-piracy schemes one can think of, and provides the
         | continuous growth curve for printing money.
         | 
         | Thus subscriptions aren't going away in the modern software
         | world.
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | No, all apps are available for purchase for a one time payment.
         | 
         | I don't care about video, so I'll be buying Pixelmator now, and
         | maybe music stuff later, and Video part never.
         | 
         | So it works like before, if you want.
        
           | bearjaws wrote:
           | Available for purchase... for now.
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | The only "...for now" event I have seen in last 20 years of
             | Apple software is iWorks and Mac OS X become _free_.
             | 
             | ...and they integrated some of the Aperture to new Photos
             | app, which is again was a transition to free.
             | 
             | Name me something a product, not a service which you can
             | only subscribe in Apple's ecosystem.
        
               | arvinsim wrote:
               | Logic Pro in iPad is subscription only.
        
               | asimpletune wrote:
               | They didn't take away a one-time purchase option for it
               | though. It just never existed to begin with so the op's
               | point remains.
        
               | ascagnel_ wrote:
               | > Name me something a product, not a service which you
               | can only subscribe in Apple's ecosystem.
               | 
               | The shows on Apple TV are only available via a
               | subscription; there's no way to have a perpetual purchase
               | (at least as far as that a la carte style of purchase is
               | perpetual).
        
               | dagmx wrote:
               | They specifically said "not a service" and you brought up
               | a service.
        
               | ascagnel_ wrote:
               | I would argue a season or episode of television is a
               | product, and Apple TV gates them behind a subscription.
               | 
               | I used to buy the season passes so I could return to
               | shows later; that's not an option for ATV stuff.
        
           | andrei_says_ wrote:
           | Pixelmator is great and integrates well with Apple's tooling
           | for batch processing.
           | 
           | For video, the free version of DavinciResolve goes a very
           | long way, and their Studio is a single-payment-life-time
           | license.
        
             | lynndotpy wrote:
             | DaVinci Resolve also runs on Linux, so you won't be locked
             | to staying on MacOS if you want to switch OSes but maintain
             | your skillset.
        
         | tapoxi wrote:
         | Yeah but this is $129/yr, that's significantly cheaper
        
           | whywhywhywhy wrote:
           | It's cheap enough it's not enough to fund development of
           | Final Cut but also not enough money to bother spending time
           | on it. Find it odd personally, just offering them free to
           | keep hardware makes more sense than trying to push a tiny
           | subscription revenue number.
        
             | anticorporate wrote:
             | It's the problem that the whole industry is facing - the
             | current generation of hardware is sufficient that hardware
             | refreshes will continue to decline, and companies that want
             | to keep milking us for money regularly need to find a new
             | way to do it.
        
               | no_wizard wrote:
               | Sufficient for whom? At my job they're still refreshing
               | workstations regularly. They buy and churn hardware on a
               | regular basis.
               | 
               | Not quite "buying on release week" basis but some % of
               | employees always getting new hardware at max specs in the
               | design org
               | 
               | Makes even engineering jealous sometimes
        
               | alwillis wrote:
               | > the current generation of hardware is sufficient that
               | hardware refreshes will continue to decline
               | 
               | If anything, Apple is refreshing their hardware much
               | faster now compared to the Intel days. There's literally
               | a new MacBook Pro and MacBook Air every year. And of
               | course there are 3-4 new iPhones every year.
        
               | anticorporate wrote:
               | By declining hardware refreshes, I meant on the consumer
               | side, not the producer side.
        
               | rstupek wrote:
               | I hate subscriptions as much as the next person but how
               | would you pay for continued development of software? Do
               | you say a person can continue to run version X forever
               | but if they want a new version they pay for it?
        
               | anticorporate wrote:
               | > Do you say a person can continue to run version X
               | forever but if they want a new version they pay for it?
               | 
               | I'm not particularly interested in sustaining the
               | financial growth of software companies. I did that for
               | years and I'm done.
               | 
               | But, what you suggest is literally what the software
               | industry did for decades before subscriptions became the
               | norm.
        
             | vile_wretch wrote:
             | $129/year is surely better than $300 once, 15 years ago.
             | Though I'm guessing not offering it for free is to keep it
             | distinct from iMovie and to maintain some semblance of
             | "Pro"-ness (which I'm gathering is up for debate either
             | way.. the last time I did any actual video editing it was
             | on Final Cut Pro 5 so I'm out of the loop)
        
             | alwillis wrote:
             | > It's cheap enough it's not enough to fund development of
             | Final Cut but also not enough money to bother spending time
             | on it. Find it odd personally, just offering them free to
             | keep hardware makes more sense than trying to push a tiny
             | subscription revenue number.
             | 
             | Apple doesn't work that way.
             | 
             | Unlike almost all other tech companies that are organized
             | by divisions, Apple uses a functional organizational
             | structure.
             | 
             | So all of the software teams are under one head of
             | software; there's no senior vp of the Final Cut division,
             | for example.
             | 
             | For accounting purposes, all software is lumped together.
             | 
             | Apple made $391 _billion_ in revenue last fiscal year; when
             | you 're making that kind of money, you can afford to do
             | things for reasons other than the amount of money you could
             | make.
             | 
             | Whatever revenue Final Cut generates isn't required to
             | _fund_ the Final Cut team.
        
           | pier25 wrote:
           | One might argue it offers significantly less value too.
        
         | acomjean wrote:
         | Subscription model so it's adobes model. But you can buy "one
         | time". Though they have a tendency to just end product support
         | (aperture software was canceled leaving a lot of bad taste for
         | photographers that used it)
         | 
         | Wonder what Adobe thinks of this. Their support for Mac was
         | pretty important in getting OS X off the ground, now they're
         | competing with a unified stack.
         | 
         | When I was a Mac user I remember buying Logic express 9 (I
         | still have the disk). The price is a good deal, but you really
         | are all in forever..
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | FTA: _"Alternatively, users can also choose to purchase the Mac
         | versions of Final Cut Pro, Pixelmator Pro, Logic Pro, Motion,
         | Compressor, and MainStage individually as a one-time purchase
         | on the Mac App Store."_
        
         | mirzap wrote:
         | How so? Apple's subscription cancellation is one click away,
         | and you don't get overcharged when canceling.
        
         | F7F7F7 wrote:
         | Adobe invented subscription bundles? In that sense did the
         | Creative Cloud copy iCloud?
        
       | Fraaaank wrote:
       | Alternative title: "Apple slaps subscription model on existing
       | apps"
        
         | jen20 wrote:
         | Except that isn't an alternative title, unless you want to lie
         | by omission thus being wrong.
         | 
         | "Apple offers new option for subscription in addition to
         | existing one-time purchase optinos" might be an alternative
         | though, and reduce the number of cynically inane comments from
         | people that apparently didn't RTFA before commenting.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | I am still waiting for "XCode for iPadOS", where we can have a
       | Smalltalk like approach to development, beyond what Swift
       | Playgrounds allows for.
        
         | eurekin wrote:
         | I played once with hosting a VSCode server on a raspberry pi
         | for general development and it was actually quite powerful,
         | when used from an iPad. Just not strictly for Swift
         | unfortunately
        
           | qn9n wrote:
           | The ecosystem is fine for non-Apple development. It's just
           | building apps for iOS, macOS, etc. that is impossible on iPad
           | right now past some basic applications.
        
           | ajcp wrote:
           | I'm hosting a VSCode server with Termux/Ubuntu container on
           | my old Pixel 6a and I cannot overstate how awesome it is for
           | just a fun dev setup, especially with a tablet. Easy to nuke
           | and start clean too!
        
         | kmeisthax wrote:
         | Unless Apple gets off several high horses regarding code
         | signing and, more importantly, app containerization; any Xcode
         | for iPadOS is going to be useless. Like, imagine Xcode without
         | custom build steps or third-party compilers.
         | 
         | The larger problem is that the iPad has a dual nature. At the
         | launch of the product, Apple positioned it as a netbook killer
         | - i.e. a simplified computer for specific tasks, one where the
         | locked down nature of the device might actually be considered a
         | feature. That's why they built everything on iPhone OS[0].
         | However, there's always been the implication that this is
         | supposed to Someday(tm) replace the Mac. It keeps getting new
         | features to make it more useful as a computer replacement,
         | which just makes the deliberate restrictions placed on the
         | device more and more glaring. And Apple seems to think they can
         | just keep adding features until they can make you do every
         | computing task wearing a strait-jacket in a padded room.
         | 
         | This particular duality came to a head with the Apple Vision
         | Pro. Any app that would actually be useful on a VR headset is
         | either:
         | 
         | - Incompatible with Apple's code-signing and containerization
         | requirements (i.e. developer tools)
         | 
         | - Not economic to offer at the small scale of the visionOS app
         | market (at least, not while Apple is demanding 30%)
         | 
         | - A game (Apple really doesn't wanna talk about the Vision Pro
         | as a games machine)
         | 
         | On a related note, Swift Playgrounds stopped getting updates
         | almost a year ago. I updated my HTML editor demo project for
         | iPadOS 26 and now I can't even compile it because Apple has yet
         | to ship the version 26 SDK. And there's really nothing any
         | third party can do to fix Swift Playgrounds to make it actually
         | usable again.
         | 
         | [0] Strictly speaking, Apple's first internal demos of
         | capacitive touch were for a tablet project specifically to
         | spite Windows XP tablets. Although by the time they were
         | writing actual shipping code it was intended for iPhone and
         | iPad came later.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Everyone that argues about this misses the point.
           | 
           | It isn't about doing and publishing apps without having to
           | buy a mac.
           | 
           | Rather having a more powerful development experience that
           | isn't as constrained as Swift Playgrounds, useful for
           | prototyping ideas.
           | 
           | I do not care if in a similar vein, to a Smalltalk like
           | environment I would always need to run the app from inside
           | the dev env, and then use a Mac, or some cloud build workflow
           | if I ever would like to actually publish it.
           | 
           | Just like I use several other coding on the go environments.
        
       | isoprophlex wrote:
       | God fucking damn not you too, Apple. Adobe isn't a role model to
       | emulate. I hate Adobe's practices. The whole world hates Adobe's
       | practices. I want to pay for a thing with my money and then use
       | it without worrying about ongoing costs, the UI changing,
       | features breaking, or shit being shoved down my throat because
       | some seedy PM wants a raise.
       | 
       | EDIT: I know you can still buy the software... but for how long?
        
         | spott wrote:
         | You can. They are offering both options.
        
         | joshstrange wrote:
         | RTFA, you can still buy them for a one-time purchase on the App
         | Store
        
           | moolcool wrote:
           | For now...
        
       | xd1936 wrote:
       | Is this replacing the one-time purchase of these apps on macOS?
        
         | shmoogy wrote:
         | Doesn't sound like it > Alternatively, users can also choose to
         | purchase the Mac versions of Final Cut Pro, Pixelmator Pro,
         | Logic Pro, Motion, Compressor, and MainStage individually as a
         | one-time purchase on the Mac App Store.5
        
         | artimaeis wrote:
         | No, fta:
         | 
         | > Alternatively, users can also choose to purchase the Mac
         | versions of Final Cut Pro, Pixelmator Pro, Logic Pro, Motion,
         | Compressor, and MainStage individually as a one-time purchase
         | on the Mac App Store.
        
       | cupofjoakim wrote:
       | That's great if you need everything. If you need one of them, not
       | so much.
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | I'm curious how many people actually use all this stuff
         | themselves. It seems like an extreme niche, and more often than
         | not will have people paying for apps they will never use.
        
           | d_runs_far wrote:
           | Maybe I'm old skool... but for the last 30+ years I've been
           | using a combination of photoshop, illustrator, FCP, after
           | effects (back when it was CoSA...), some audio editing and
           | mixing in quite a bit of code as well. While others on my
           | team specialize in one or two domains, I've managed to keep
           | my skills in many.
           | 
           | Back in the day I was considered a 'MultiMedia' creative. I
           | don't even know what to call myself these days.
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | You can buy the individual tools, if you want.
        
       | jasongill wrote:
       | It's $12.99/mo or $129/yr for a subscription that includes Final
       | Cut Pro, Logic Pro, Pixelmator Pro, Motion, Compressor,
       | MainStage, Keynote, Pages, and Numbers
       | 
       | Educational discount with verification required drops the price
       | to $2.99/mo / $29.99/yr.
       | 
       | The regular-price subscription includes family sharing, education
       | price does not.
       | 
       | One-time purchase versions remain available: Final Cut Pro
       | ($299.99), Logic Pro ($199.99), Pixelmator Pro ($49.99), Motion
       | ($49.99), Compressor ($49.99), and MainStage ($29.99).
       | 
       | Comes out January 28th
        
         | thecupisblue wrote:
         | That's actually surprisingly cheap compared to other
         | subscriptions in the industry, especially for such a high
         | powered suite.
        
           | Towaway69 wrote:
           | Undercut the competition until there is no competition, then
           | raise prices or have I missed something?
           | 
           | Ah, yes - cross finance your loses by selling compute in your
           | own data centres / hosting service because you can.
        
             | beernet wrote:
             | Not an Apple fan at all, but damn, in the views of some of
             | the HN community, one can only do wrong. Pathetic.
        
             | embedding-shape wrote:
             | Pretty spot on. I think what's new is that Apple is
             | employing this tactic, before they always went with "Our
             | stuff is more expensive because it's better", but as they
             | seem to slightly pivot into other directions now, this
             | choice also seems to align with the new direction.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | Somehow I don't think Apple is going to put Adobe out of
             | business.
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | They don't need to.
               | 
               | They want marketshare to enhance their other market
               | positions and give them optionality for future strategy.
               | 
               | They'd love the whole market, but they don't need it and
               | they won't employ too many resources chasing that.
               | 
               | They're a powerful giant with hands in so many places.
               | Each enforcing other endeavors.
               | 
               | This encourages people to stay in the Apple hardware
               | ecosystem, for instance. It dog foods their silicon. It
               | keeps people thinking of Apple as the creative brand and
               | operating system. More creatives buying Apple -> more
               | being produced and consumed for and on Apple.
               | 
               | Also the strategy of getting kids young has always been
               | genius. They started that in the eighties, I think.
        
               | twoodfin wrote:
               | Well put.
               | 
               | Best framing I've seen of the answer to, "Why is Apple in
               | the streaming service business?"
        
               | sleepybrett wrote:
               | They don't need to, but they do lose a bunch more of the
               | 'feeder' market. If need to edit video to a semi
               | professional standard I'd pick this bundle at 12.99/month
               | (and get extra tools i might need) vs adobe premiere for
               | 22.99/month.
               | 
               | As someone who came up along side adobe, the only reason
               | photoshop is as entrenched as it is is simply because of
               | piracy. Ditto for premiere. It created the market that
               | they then locked down with subscriptions.
               | 
               | I think you are going to see shops that are smaller,
               | doing their own design stuff internally, increasingly
               | moving away from adobe subscriptions.
        
             | exitb wrote:
             | Apple doesn't ever need to make much money on this
             | software, when they make money on hardware needed to use
             | it.
        
               | sofixa wrote:
               | Apple hardware has "only" a 36% margin, while their
               | software and services have a 75% margin. They definitely
               | want to make more money on software with absurd margins.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | A huge portion of that margin is from the 33% App Store
               | cut which is infinite margin for them, effectively.
               | 
               | "software and services" really should be broken out from
               | the App Store cut.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | Is margin profit/revenue or profit/costs? I think it is
               | the former, so it should be "effectively 100%" right?
               | 
               | Anyway, this isn't really a meaningful quibble argument-
               | wise, it is obvious what you mean!
        
             | thecupisblue wrote:
             | I would assume it's because younger generations of
             | creatives are using their software less and less,
             | increasing the risk of losing the market completely on the
             | software side. At this pricing, more of them will turn to
             | paying Apple rather than paying for multiple services,
             | keeping them tied into the ecosystem.
             | 
             | Also so many people are paying for Canva, Capcut etc that
             | taking a piece of that cake is quite a low hanging fruit if
             | you have a distribution platform.
        
               | no_wizard wrote:
               | The acquisition of the Affinity software by Canva I
               | imagine motivated this.
               | 
               | It's even a similar pricing model, though technically
               | with Pages / Numbers / Keynote covers a little more
               | ground but I think the main intent is to get creatives
               | using Apple's creative software again
               | 
               | Pixelmator being the only 3rd party software because
               | Apple never made a competitor to Photoshop
               | 
               | Though since Canva went full on toward more robust tools
               | I imagine they have started capturing the entire editing
               | chain more than they did 2-3 years ago, hence the
               | Affinity acquisition
        
               | Someone wrote:
               | > Pixelmator being the only 3rd party software because
               | Apple never made a competitor to Photoshop
               | 
               | Pixelmator isn't third party.
               | https://www.pixelmator.com/blog/2024/11/01/a-new-home-
               | for-pi...:
               | 
               |  _"November 1, 2024
               | 
               | A new home for Pixelmator
               | 
               | Today we have some important news to share: the
               | Pixelmator Team plans to join Apple"_
               | 
               | That deal completed almost a year ago.
        
             | nozzlegear wrote:
             | What data centers? Does Apple even have data centers? Can
             | people purchase compute on Apple's data centers?
        
               | darrenf wrote:
               | > _What data centers? Does Apple even have data centers?_
               | 
               | Apple absolutely has data centres. Where do you think
               | Apple TV, Apple Music, iCloud, Maps, etc compute happens?
               | 
               | Here's a press release straight from the horse's mouth
               | about one in Denmark, in late 2020:
               | https://www.apple.com/uk/newsroom/2020/09/apple-expands-
               | rene...
               | 
               | > _Can people purchase compute on Apple 's data centers?_
               | 
               | Not to my knowledge, but that's not saying much.
        
               | nozzlegear wrote:
               | > Not to my knowledge, but that's not saying much.
               | 
               | But that's the entire crux of their comment: undercut the
               | competition, and make them pay for compute on Apple's
               | data centers.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | Get them in the door now and jack up the price later.
        
           | jonwinstanley wrote:
           | As long as you buy a macbook to use it on, they are happy
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | They'd be even happier if you bought one of the Mac Studios
             | or Mac Pro. Please, someone, anyone.
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | I don't think they have any trouble selling Studios.
               | Pros, on the other hand...
        
               | sleepybrett wrote:
               | Yeah studios are pretty boss machines, I know at least
               | two companies that offer studios instead of macbooks to
               | WFH employees if they want.
        
           | brk wrote:
           | That was my thinking. I already use several of these apps,
           | the $130/mo. is a no brainer to pick up the others.
        
           | philistine wrote:
           | The competition for the Creator Studio is not exactly Adobe.
           | Of course Apple will be happy to build on their offerings to
           | be able to really take on Adobe, but this subscription is
           | priced to compete with the online services popping up from
           | nowhere that have stolen the ease of use market away from
           | Adobe.
           | 
           | The real competition in this market in 2026 is Canva.
        
             | tln wrote:
             | Canva, really? Is this looking forward at what is coming?
             | 
             | I see the rise of and have to deal with Canva-generated
             | PDFs instead of Adobe Illustrator. So the low end market of
             | video / animation, I could absolutely see Canva dominating.
             | Doubt we'll see audio tools though.
             | 
             | Final Cut Pro -- Professional non-linear video editing *
             | Canva? Partial: Best for social clips; lacks FCP's RAW,
             | multicam, and AI transcript tools.
             | 
             | Logic Pro -- Professional music production and MIDI
             | sequencing * Canva? No: No DAW capabilities, plugin
             | hosting, or live mixing.
             | 
             | Pixelmator Pro -- Advanced image editing and graphic design
             | * Canva? Partial: Good for templates; lacks Pixelmator's
             | precision layers and AI retouching.
             | 
             | Motion -- 2D/3D motion graphics and cinematic effects *
             | Canva? No: Canva uses presets; Motion offers granular
             | keyframing and VFX creation.
             | 
             | Compressor -- Advanced media encoding and batch exporting *
             | Canva? No: No control over specific codecs, bitrates, or
             | pro output formats.
             | 
             | MainStage -- Live performance audio rig for stage use *
             | Canva? No: No live audio processing or MIDI instrument
             | hosting.
             | 
             | Keynote -- Cinematic presentations and slide decks * Canva?
             | Yes: Canva's primary competitor for collaborative,
             | template-based slides.
             | 
             | Pages -- Word processing and page layout * Canva? Yes:
             | Canva Docs is a direct alternative for visual/marketing
             | documents.
             | 
             | Numbers -- Spreadsheets and data visualization * Canva?
             | Yes: Canva Sheets handles basic data viz, though lacks
             | Numbers' complex formulas.
        
               | girvo wrote:
               | With Canva's ownership of Affinity, yeah I see Canva as
               | being a big competitor in parts of this space now. Or
               | will be as those tools become more widespread across
               | Canva's users.
        
         | prodigycorp wrote:
         | time to dust off that 20 year old edu email address. with these
         | discounts, college has paid for itself!
        
           | yardie wrote:
           | I finally had to give mine up. Needed to reset the password
           | which required a trip to 4HELP office and I live halfway
           | around the globe now. But the kiddo will be starting college
           | soon so I can mooch off their edu email address.
        
             | qingcharles wrote:
             | Ah, I've been mooching off an old library card for years to
             | rent books for my Kindle. Finally got an email saying "Just
             | pop into your local branch to renew this year." Ah...
        
               | bookofjoe wrote:
               | YES! I was a happy Kanopy movie viewer until last year I
               | got a message that my library card no longer worked on
               | Kanopy and I had to physically go in to the library to
               | get a new one. Maybe someday....
        
               | yardie wrote:
               | You have to renew them? I've been using the same card
               | since '03. I went in a 2 years ago to pay my fine for a
               | book lost in the couch cushion for a few months.
               | Librarian thought it was quaint that I still have my old
               | tattered library card.
        
           | WmWsjA6B29B4nfk wrote:
           | If you are planning anyway to break the terms of the license
           | and effectively steal the software, why even bother paying
           | something for the privilege? Just get it for free, surely it
           | has to be available cracked
        
             | embedding-shape wrote:
             | > break the terms of the license and effectively steal the
             | software
             | 
             | We're all (mostly/some) software people here, you don't
             | need to use terms established by the "anti-piracy" firms to
             | make your point, no one is "stealing" anything here, even
             | if they were getting it for free from TPB or whatever.
        
               | renewiltord wrote:
               | Indeed. But people are stuck on these archaic unrelated
               | terms for now. AI firms will make the whole thing
               | obsolete while luddites cry about "stealing from artists"
               | and stuff like that.
        
               | embedding-shape wrote:
               | > But people are stuck on these archaic unrelated terms
               | for now
               | 
               | Seen it in media for decades at this point, which makes
               | sense, most people can't tell up from down.
               | 
               | What's sad is hearing those things echoed here of all
               | places, a community for _hackers_ , and people are
               | repeating the words of the MPAA.
        
             | prodigycorp wrote:
             | Spare me the morality play. Apple gifted Donald Trump a 24k
             | gold statue! They _will_ gift me an educational discount to
             | Final Cut Pro.
        
               | WmWsjA6B29B4nfk wrote:
               | There was no morality play. My point is your copy/use of
               | software is equally "illegal" whether you just download a
               | cracked copy or pretend to be an active college student
               | and pay the student price, when you are not in fact an
               | active college student. Either way, you won't have a
               | valid license. So why bother paying?
        
               | prodigycorp wrote:
               | I mean, why not? I barely use FCP, sometimes to trim a
               | movie in places. I'm still going to be subsiding other
               | users. I'd rather not pirate.
        
               | Forgeties79 wrote:
               | This is quite the slippery argument IMO. So it's not
               | about morality, it's about legality. But also it's about
               | paying for a valid license, so they shouldn't pay at all?
        
             | lifetimerubyist wrote:
             | won't somebody think of the poor trillion dollar company!
        
             | Fnoord wrote:
             | Cracked software has risks attached to it, such as malware.
        
             | qingcharles wrote:
             | When I moaned to the Adobe support person about a recent
             | price hike they said "It's a real shame you haven't signed
             | up for a free educational course online, like the ones from
             | Google, that would qualify you for a student plan. Or have
             | you? I'll wait here while you tell me if you are enrolled
             | in one of those free Google courses. Take as long as you
             | need."
             | 
             | So now I'm getting an education too.
        
           | SirMaster wrote:
           | That almost never works for me, they usually use a service
           | that verifies current student enrollment like SheerID.
        
         | jasoneckert wrote:
         | The most important benefits in my opinion are choice and price
         | - people like me who prefer to buy software outright can still
         | do so at a reasonable cost, while others who opt for a
         | subscription can also do so (again, at a reasonable cost).
        
           | embedding-shape wrote:
           | It's pretty clever that they keep the "pay one time" option
           | still alive while announcing the availability of
           | subscription, so anyone who says "Boo, not you too Apple" can
           | easily be shut down with "You still have the option to buy
           | it!" instead of leaving those critics without answers. Of
           | course, they'll eventually remove the option to buy the
           | software by paying once, I think everyone can see the writing
           | on the wall, but still clever of them to choose to do it
           | later for PR purposes. 1-0 to Apple :)
        
             | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
             | Office 365 - the subscription version of Office - was
             | released in 2011.
             | 
             | Microsoft still offers a one time purchase of Office. There
             | is precedent for Bigcorp keeping a one time purchase
             | version and offer a prescription.
        
               | Plasmoid2000ad wrote:
               | Yes - but perpetual purchases have an interesting gotcha
               | that Microsoft didn't realise at first. To encourage
               | subscription over perpetual, ongoing or evergreen updates
               | are limited to subscription version.
               | 
               | Office 2024 has every feature that was added since Office
               | 2021 to the subscription version - while a chunk of loyal
               | customers are unaware of them. Back when Google was
               | competing hard with Google Suite, a big perception
               | problem formed with the perpetual customers believing and
               | convincing others that Google were far ahead, with collab
               | editing and other features - after Office had added
               | equivalent.
               | 
               | So for me, If there's a subscription and one-time option
               | - I wonder if the one-time gets all updates going
               | forward. If it doesn't, I realise that they'll regret
               | that if competition picks up, and try to fix it later. If
               | it does include updates... I worry it will be like many
               | other lifetime updates one-time purchases - when
               | competition is low they'll renege on that promise.
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | So far from what I can tell, Final Cut Pro has gotten
               | perpetual updates. Since you can only buy it via the Mac
               | App Store, ther can't do upgrade pricing.
        
               | chrisandchris wrote:
               | They could - and some of the 3rd party vendors did: There
               | is a 1Password 7 and a 1Password 8. There was also a
               | Things 1/2, which is now a Things 3. it usually works by
               | creating a new app, and not updating the old one anymore.
        
               | BeetleB wrote:
               | > To encourage subscription over perpetual, ongoing or
               | evergreen updates are limited to subscription version.
               | 
               | Of course ... ? Before the subscription model, you
               | wouldn't get free Office upgrades.
        
               | albedoa wrote:
               | Yes. That sentence is setup for the speculation in the
               | third paragraph. Folks in this sub-thread are wondering
               | how the one-time price option plays out with Apple
               | Creator Studio.
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | You would definitely not get free upgrades for Office.
               | You would get minor point release updates. You also had
               | to upgrade the Mac version often for:
               | 
               | - the System 7 transition
               | 
               | - the 040 Macs and to get a "32 bit clean version"
               | 
               | - to get the full speed of running natively on PPC Macs
               | 
               | - to get a native OS X version instead of one that ran in
               | the OS 9 sandbox
               | 
               | - the Intel transition to get native performance.
               | 
               | I would much rather pay $150 (?) a year for a five user
               | license where each user gets 1TB of storage and each user
               | can use Office across Macs, Windows, iPhones and iPads.
               | 
               | It's the same price as Dropbox's 2TB plan and all you get
               | for that is storage.
               | 
               | On a related note: Steve Jobs was right - Dropbox is a
               | feature not a product.
        
               | PinguTS wrote:
               | Actually, you can buy only the 2024 version of MS Office
               | for Mac, while the subscription is more up to date. You
               | cannot buy a packaged 2025 version.
        
               | einr wrote:
               | Because there is no such product as Office 2025, much
               | like there was no Windows 96. There is Office 2004, 2008,
               | 2011, 2016, 2019, 2021 and 2024. They usually release
               | roughly every three years so there might be an Office
               | 2027. 365 is a separate (but closely related) product.
        
               | nialse wrote:
               | The one-time purchase version of Microsoft Office is not
               | available worldwide. Where offered, it is reduced to
               | Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote, with Outlook as a
               | Business edition extra. Individual apps can sometimes be
               | bought separately, but pricing usually makes this
               | impractical. This is to push buyers to Microsoft 365
               | subscriptions which is the primary product.
        
               | Obscurity4340 wrote:
               | What else is there/have they thats not?
        
               | addandsubtract wrote:
               | *Microsoft 365 Copilot
        
               | systemtest wrote:
               | Please note that you need Microsoft 365 Copilot Live
               | Essentials for Business Premium if you want InsightDeck
               | (formally PowerPoint) included.
        
               | patapong wrote:
               | I had to google this to see if it was satire... What have
               | we come to
        
               | benterix wrote:
               | > Microsoft still offers a one time purchase of Office.
               | 
               | he writing is on the wall, they will remove it sooner or
               | later.
        
               | 0x457 wrote:
               | It's been available for something like 15 years since
               | subscription purchase was introduced. Why so negative?
        
             | TheCraiggers wrote:
             | > but still clever of them to choose to do it later for PR
             | purposes. 1-0 to Apple :)
             | 
             | They're doing it because it makes them more money.
             | Corporations are not your friend.
        
               | embedding-shape wrote:
               | Yes, of course, ultimately every choice they ever do is
               | for money, because they're a for-profit company. But
               | maybe we can be slightly more granular about exactly _how
               | that choice makes them more money_ , which is because it
               | gives them good PR. I was just being more specific, but
               | we're saying the same thing :)
        
               | TheCraiggers wrote:
               | Fair enough. I was just trying to point out / remind
               | everyone that they're not doing it out of benevolence.
               | Your post just read a bit like that to me.
               | 
               | Obviously you're right that PR ultimately translates into
               | money.
        
               | stanmancan wrote:
               | Parent isn't insinuating otherwise. They're saying the
               | subscription model is more lucrative, so eventually
               | they'll remove the one time payment option, but keeping
               | it as an option for the announcement keeps the bad PR at
               | bay.
        
               | virgil_disgr4ce wrote:
               | "PR purposes" IS doing it for money
        
             | carlosjobim wrote:
             | > It's pretty clever that they keep the "pay one time"
             | option still alive while announcing the availability of
             | subscription, so anyone who says "Boo, not you too Apple"
             | can easily be shut down with "You still have the option to
             | buy it!"
             | 
             | Probably not. Those customers are almost completely
             | irrelevant and not people who Apple or anybody else cares
             | about. They won't mind if you kick and scream.
        
             | SunshineTheCat wrote:
             | Yea I've already purchased some of these apps so I was not
             | going to thrilled if they pulled an Adobe and made me pay
             | for an overpriced subscription on top of it >:(
        
               | james-bcn wrote:
               | > overpriced
               | 
               | Seriously? This is incredibly reasonable.
        
               | pantulis wrote:
               | It's not outrageous, for sure, specially if you happen to
               | have a use case for all the bundled apps. But things
               | change if you consider that the one time payment for
               | Logic Pro equals about 18 months of the subscription. In
               | my case, I bought Logic Pro in 2013 for 180EUR. Obviously
               | a subscription seems expensive no matter what the price
               | is.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | So you bought Logic Pro vX for 180EUR. Did you receive
               | Logic Pro vX++ for free?
        
               | wrs wrote:
               | Yes, Logic updates have been free for many years. FCP as
               | well.
        
               | pantulis wrote:
               | Well what I didn't receive for free is the 3 macs that
               | have been running the same licensed product ;)
        
               | wrs wrote:
               | Indeed, and considering the 14 years of free Logic
               | upgrades I'm surprised they bothered charging the initial
               | $199! (I do remember being a bit miffed that it was $199
               | regardless of my existing license for the giant $999 box
               | that was Logic Studio.)
        
               | smith7018 wrote:
               | If a students needs Logic Pro for 3 months for a class
               | then they can get it (with the other apps) for $9 total
               | ($6 if you count the free month). That makes more sense
               | than a one time fee of $200. On the other hand, if you're
               | planning to use the software for over a decade like
               | yourself then $200 is very cheap.
        
               | kergonath wrote:
               | Exactly what I was thinking. I bought Pixelmator Pro 3
               | days ago... But I am happy, as I have absolutely no need
               | for the others, except for the free ones.
        
             | smugma wrote:
             | Many years ago Apple reduced their pricing on many of these
             | apps. They also made their OS updates free.
             | 
             | Apple wants its customers to buy/subscribe to these tools
             | so that you're in the Apple ecosystem and buy more hardware
             | and services.
             | 
             | Unlike Adobe, they have profit-maximizing incentives to let
             | you stay on the buy/rent model that you prefer.
        
             | whycome wrote:
             | Why do you think they will remove the option to buy the
             | software? They've kept the model for years. They're
             | targeting different audiences with the move.
        
             | philipallstar wrote:
             | > so anyone who says "Boo, not you too Apple" can easily be
             | shut down with "You still have the option to buy it!"
             | instead of leaving those critics without answers
             | 
             | This is like saying that it's clever for Mars to keep Mars
             | Bars while launching a new bar, as it "shuts down"
             | complaints that Mars Bars will no longer exist.
        
               | hnlmorg wrote:
               | I don't really understand the point you're trying to get
               | at but your analogy doesn't really work here because a
               | new chocolate bar would be a new product. Not a different
               | way of buying the same product.
        
               | hexasquid wrote:
               | They're running a conspiracy to trick people into not
               | shutting them down by offering two ways to pay, the
               | devious foxes.
        
             | alwillis wrote:
             | > Of course, they'll eventually remove the option to buy
             | the software by paying once, I think everyone can see the
             | writing on the wall
             | 
             | There's no indication Apple is planning to end the option
             | of paying once for these apps.
             | 
             | Apple introduced subscriptions for Final Cut and Logic
             | nearly three years ago [1]; this isn't new by any means.
             | Pages, Numbers and Keynote remain available at no cost.
             | 
             | [1]: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/05/apple-brings-
             | final-cu...
        
             | groundzeros2015 wrote:
             | You are complaining about a problem that hasn't happened
             | yet and there is no inherent reason it will happen.
        
             | handsclean wrote:
             | The other thing that's going to go away is purchasing only
             | what you need. I want exactly one of these apps, I bet
             | virtually nobody uses all of them, and yet the suckers are
             | going to be telling us that being made to buy stuff we
             | don't want or use is "more value".
        
               | smith7018 wrote:
               | > and yet the suckers are going to be telling us that
               | being made to buy stuff we don't want or use is "more
               | value".
               | 
               | You're making up an individual to get mad at for no
               | reason.
               | 
               | > The other thing that's going to go away is purchasing
               | only what you need
               | 
               | There is no proof of this. So you're making up a
               | situation to get mad at for no reason.
               | 
               | > I want exactly one of these apps
               | 
               | Perfect, Apple lets you buy the one app you want for a
               | reasonable price! So what's the issue?
        
               | handsclean wrote:
               | Of course predictions about the future are not present
               | reality.
               | 
               | It's not set in stone, but it's supported by the times
               | this has happened before and by trends in Apple and in
               | tech. "Nothing will ever change" is a prediction, too,
               | and one much less supported by evidence.
        
             | alwa wrote:
             | Final Cut Pro X has been available for purchase (at the
             | same price, IIRC) for well over a decade now. Pro feathers
             | were ruffled at the time they leapt from FCP7 to FCPX: the
             | $299 price point was something like 1/4 of the going rate
             | for its predecessors, was Apple planning to abandon its
             | pros for the consumer market? Well. Here we are almost 15
             | years later, and if you paid the one-time price back then,
             | you're still getting free updates today (at least on
             | desktop). And you can still buy in with 299 2025 dollars,
             | rather than 299 2011 dollars.
             | 
             | At the time, the common wisdom was that they'd go the same
             | route as Adobe: you'd have to buy Final Cut X+1 in a couple
             | years for another $299, and Final Cut X+2 a couple years
             | after that... to their credit, that's not the way it's
             | gone.
             | 
             | So that way, I imagine, all the film folks have a little
             | more money to chuck at their high-powered Mac hardware
             | budgets in the next refresh cycle instead... An evergreen
             | Final Cut Pro license costs _almost_ as much as 1TB of SSD
             | from those guys!
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | That is true, but it is also true that FinalCut lost big
               | time against DaVinci for all semi-professional users
               | which are exactly FinalCut's main target group.
               | 
               | I'd argue that it is very likely that Final Cut X+1 was
               | Apple's plan. It just did not pan out and they were busy
               | with other things. Now they made the first step
               | correcting that (or cutting the losses, depending how you
               | want to see it).
        
               | bredren wrote:
               | I had thought a main problem for professional video
               | editors w FC had to do with video editor UX philosophy.
               | Something difficult to pivot away from.
               | 
               | I'm hand waving there because I'm not a pro but my
               | neighbor is and I don't recall the details.
               | 
               | But I'm curious how you see FC also lost in semi pro to
               | Davinci specifically.
        
               | josephg wrote:
               | Davinci Resolve is free. At least, for the non studio
               | version. (There's a few studio only features, but almost
               | everything is available in the free version of resolve).
               | And a lot of people want to learn resolve anyway for
               | color grading. Why not just edit in resolve too? Resolve
               | studio is also quite cheap, given you buy it once and own
               | it forever. Including updates.
               | 
               | I spent last week helping out at a short filmmaking
               | course. The DP running it has used Final Cut for his
               | entire career. But not a single student chose to edit
               | their film using Final Cut. The class was split between
               | resolve and premier pro. (Premier was chosen by a lot of
               | people because it's what they use at school, and they
               | have a free licence to premier from their school while
               | they're studying.)
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | This, plus:
               | 
               | - The studio version of DaVinci is still affordable
               | should you need it.
               | 
               | - DaVinci has many good tutorials
        
               | dbspin wrote:
               | The 'cut' page in DaVinci specifically exists to
               | replicate the FC editing UX.
               | 
               | It's an optional way of editing separate from the 'edit'
               | tab.
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | > At the time, the common wisdom was that they'd go the
               | same route as Adobe: you'd have to buy Final Cut X+1 in a
               | couple years for another $299, and Final Cut X+2 a couple
               | years after that... to their credit, that's not the way
               | it's gone.
               | 
               | And that's _despite_ Apple having zero interest in doing
               | things that don 't ultimately make them money.
               | 
               | I have a theory for how sales of these one-time-purchase
               | yet indefinitely-updated apps happens to work out
               | positively on Apple's balance sheet, while it doesn't for
               | most other large players right now.
               | 
               | And that's that, due to Apple's vertical integration
               | (they make the hardware, they make the OS that runs on
               | the hardware, they make the apps that run on the OS) --
               | and due to these apps only targeting their own
               | OSes+hardware, with no consideration of portability to
               | other platforms -- a lot (like 90+%) of the "enablement"
               | work for these apps ends up time-budgeted as _OS_ work,
               | rather than apps work.
               | 
               | Or, I guess, to be more charitable, you could say that
               | Apple's engineers develop first-party apps not just to
               | sell them, but at least in part to _drive_ the
               | development of the OS as a developer platform. You could
               | even describe the OS frameworks as the product, and the
               | apps themselves as the byproduct. (In that lens, the only
               | reason FCP would cost anything at all is to avoid
               | accusations of anti-competitive behavior.)
        
               | akd wrote:
               | The core of Apple's success has always been to capture
               | the cultural leaders. Artists, musicians, journalists,
               | etc. have used Apple at much higher percentages than the
               | general public.
               | 
               | Now that the iPhone made Apple much more of mainstream
               | company, it's harder to do -- what does it mean to focus
               | on cultural leaders when 90% of American teens have an
               | iPhone? But in the 15 years since Steve Jobs' death they
               | have still been doing a decent job of it.
               | 
               | The company
        
             | dabinat wrote:
             | There are features they are planning to make exclusive to
             | the subscriptions. I don't know if they're planning to make
             | the one-time purchase go away completely, but it seems like
             | it's going to be approached as the "lesser" option.
             | 
             | https://www.macrumors.com/2026/01/13/apple-creator-studio-
             | ex...
        
             | tshaddox wrote:
             | Yes, shame on them for only making good decisions now,
             | instead of in the future.
        
             | wilg wrote:
             | I think it's okay, or even better probably, if they move to
             | subscription only. All Apple's paid apps have languished
             | for years and if its actually a revenue stream for them
             | maybe they'll actually make them industry-leading again.
        
           | Someone1234 wrote:
           | For *now.
           | 
           | Adobe also started out as a choice between subscription or
           | buying. The only thing maybe keeping Apple honest is that
           | their stuff isn't as popular.
        
           | concinds wrote:
           | All companies should do this. Sometimes I want a one-time
           | purchase. Sometimes I want to try the program for a few
           | months and I prefer a cheap subscription over a big upfront
           | cost. And very, very rarely, I'll prefer the subscription,
           | even though it's more expensive over time, to support a cool
           | indie studio with recurring revenue instead of one-time
           | purchases that may dry up and lead to lack of interest from
           | the devs.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | This is my argument for the Adobe subscription. One day,
             | I'm a photographer needing apps like Photoshop and
             | Lightroom and After Effects (because I do a lot of
             | timelapse). One day, I'm a graphic designer, so I need
             | Photoshop and Illustrator. One day, I'm an editor, so
             | Photoshop, Premiere, Illustrator, and After Effects. One
             | day, I'm doing desktop publishing with Photoshop,
             | Illustrator, InDesign.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | So what about next year when all of the apps receive
           | updates/upgrades? Will the paid-in-full versions receive the
           | upgrade for free, or will they have upgrade prices? I
           | remember the days of Adobe's annual version upgrades, and
           | they were at least $99 per app. Using that as the basis, the
           | Adobe subscription plan is not more expensive that just
           | broken up into 12 payments. People that kept running v4 to
           | avoid the upgrade prices eventually got left out as they
           | could not open files provided to them from others using the
           | most recent version. Let's not forget our history on the one-
           | time purchase pros/cons
        
             | wrs wrote:
             | These apps have provided free updates after initial
             | purchase for many years already. It would be big news if
             | that stopped.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | That is definitely a break from the old Adobe model
        
               | pests wrote:
               | You know this is a thread about Apple and not Adobe,
               | right?
        
             | larkost wrote:
             | These are being sold on Apple's AppStore, and there the
             | model is that you get all of the updates for that App. Of
             | course there is the work-around that some apps use, which
             | is to create a new App (i.e.: MyApp vs MyApp2), which Apple
             | could do at some point in the future.
             | 
             | The best one to watch at the moment is if Pixelmater Pro
             | license holders from before it was bought by Apple get
             | access to any of the new improvements.
        
           | iAMkenough wrote:
           | Except certain features in the software will be reserved for
           | subscribers only.
        
           | NBJack wrote:
           | For now. Let's not forget MS Office had a period like that as
           | well. I give it five years max.
        
           | schappim wrote:
           | This isn't the whole story as one-time purchases will no
           | longer have access to all new features without a subscription
           | [1].
           | 
           | 1. https://www.macrumors.com/2026/01/13/apple-creator-studio-
           | ex...
        
         | Forgeties79 wrote:
         | Not related to your comment exactly but I feel like I need to
         | get this out in this thread somewhere:
         | 
         | As someone who defended FCPX and used it professionally for
         | years even when it was at its most hated (2011 or so), it's
         | been woefully supported the last few years and no one should be
         | on it anymore. Resolve Studio outclasses it top to bottom for
         | the same one-time cost and runs great on both MacOS and
         | Windows. Linux it's bumpy unfortunately but it does technically
         | run lol
        
           | embedding-shape wrote:
           | > Resolve Studio outclasses it top to bottom for the same
           | one-time cost and runs great on both MacOS and Windows
           | 
           | Best 200-300 EUR I spent some years ago, and still receives
           | free updates, Blackmagic Design is a really nice company.
           | And, not only does Resolve run great on macOS and Windows,
           | they have Linux native builds that run even better than it
           | does with the same hardware using Windows, which is REALLY
           | nice.
        
             | Forgeties79 wrote:
             | Oh interesting re: Linux. My understanding was it was
             | rougher but maybe I should try myself!
        
               | embedding-shape wrote:
               | Runs like a dream for me, albeit on workstation-hardware
               | so YMMV. It runs better under X than Wayland, at least
               | the version I'm still stuck on, but otherwise the
               | performance is top notch and easily worth a try :)
        
           | geerlingguy wrote:
           | Not arguing against Resolve, but FCP is still great for
           | edits.
           | 
           | It lacks some flashy social media features and modern
           | conveniences for sure, but it's still a very good and widely
           | used editor.
        
             | Forgeties79 wrote:
             | It lacks a lot more than flashy social media features - and
             | given their biggest driver in the 2010's was arguably
             | YouTubers, they actually need more robust social media
             | features. For starters, they _just_ added voice isolation
             | what? A year ago? That has been bog-standard for resolve
             | and premiere for years now. The audio tools in general are
             | still very subpar.
             | 
             | I used it professionally from 2011-2020 or so. Around 2020
             | the gaps in feature parity became wider and more apparent,
             | it's clearly not a priority anymore. Once I went to resolve
             | I basically abandoned it. I use maybe every 6mo tops now
             | for quick stuff for friends and family or to open an old
             | project.
             | 
             | The one thing I will say is for speed cutting, it's
             | probably the best. And that's no small thing! But that's
             | about it.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Based on revenue estimates, if Apple _wanted_ to be
               | competitive here, they could _buy_ Blackmagic for a
               | billion or so ...
        
               | qingcharles wrote:
               | It's certainly interesting that Apple have been pushing
               | Blackmagic's products. They practically rely on
               | Blackmagic software for all their demos when they release
               | some new bit of hardware. They totally conceded on the
               | camera app, for instance.
        
               | steve1977 wrote:
               | Also in their behind the scenes for their "Shot on
               | iPhone" videos, usually they show Resolve, Premier or
               | Media Composer, but rarely Final Cut.
        
         | dangoodmanUT wrote:
         | Thank god they preserved the one time purchase. I bought all of
         | these apps back in like ~2013 and have been using them for
         | literally 13 years with all updates (fcp, compressor, motion)
         | 
         | good on them
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | It's rare for a company to not only offer one-time purchases,
           | and keep updating them, but also not
           | rebranding/renaming/version cut-off charging at some point.
        
             | tarentel wrote:
             | It helps that you have to continue to buy their hardware to
             | keep running said software. I guess they could be greedy
             | and keep making me pay for Logic every few years so I'm
             | happy they don't do that but they're still making money off
             | my initial purchase of logic just in a different way.
        
         | drcongo wrote:
         | That's actually a hell of a deal considering I already pay $5 a
         | month just for Logic on the iPad.
        
           | apercu wrote:
           | I bought Logic maybe 8-9 years ago, and get free upgrades....
           | If I had paid $5/mo it would already have cost me ~$280.00
           | more than I paid.
           | 
           | Even if I had to purchase an occasional update (assuming they
           | were reasonably priced), I'd still be coming out ahead.
           | 
           | I hate "renting" software.
        
             | drcongo wrote:
             | Oh yeah, my Logic for Mac is probably about that age too,
             | but there's no choice to buy it outright on iPad sadly.
        
               | Fnoord wrote:
               | I bought a license for Pixelmator Pro a couple of years
               | ago. IIRC it cost 30 or 40 EUR. I don't use it much, but
               | it is unlikely you're going to need all of that software.
        
               | apercu wrote:
               | Oh, didn't know that. That's lame.
               | 
               | I could see using an iPad for automation, triggered by
               | midi, but I use an Air for that (and even if I used an my
               | Pro, I still have to use a USB C hub because for some
               | reason Apple things 1 (or 2) USB ports is enough. Sigh.
        
         | g947o wrote:
         | I thought they basically gave away Keynote/Pages etc to anyone
         | with an Apple device?
        
           | hmbakhsh wrote:
           | Potentially AI slop features coming to both that they'll
           | charge for?
        
           | yohannparis wrote:
           | It's literally in the introduction of the page.
           | 
           | > plus new AI features and premium content in Keynote, Pages,
           | and Numbers
        
             | g947o wrote:
             | So it's the GP comment that is inaccurate.
        
         | ksec wrote:
         | >Comes out January 28th
         | 
         | I wonder why? Why not today but 28th of Jan?
         | 
         | Part of me thinks M5 MacBook Air and M5 Pro MacBook Pro will
         | also be released on January 28th.
        
           | ExoticPearTree wrote:
           | I would like this to be very true. Can't wait to get the new
           | Air.
        
           | systemtest wrote:
           | Could be related to billing cycles
        
         | simjnd wrote:
         | But Keynote, Pages and Numbers are already free
        
           | Rebelgecko wrote:
           | Seems like a great "opportunity" for Apple to pump up their
           | Services revenue
        
           | aobdev wrote:
           | From the subheading: "plus new AI features and premium
           | content in Keynote, Pages, and Numbers"
        
         | cultofmetatron wrote:
         | the other benefit is that subs can be a sort of extended trial.
         | Ive been wanting to try out final cut pro but I don't want to
         | do a full video project if i'm going to be evaluating it.
         | better to have 1-3 months to really know before I plunk down
         | 299 bucks.
        
           | tarentel wrote:
           | They offer a 3 month trial already.
        
         | btown wrote:
         | As someone who's loved Logic Pro since the days before Apple
         | bought Emagic, this is amazing that it will be accessible to a
         | broader audience.
         | 
         | There are many discussions e.g.
         | https://gearspace.com/board/music-computers/1433515-why-does...
         | about the reasons for its popularity, but one stands out to me
         | - its event data model.
         | 
         | There are far too many tools out there (from FL Studio on one
         | end, to MuseScore on the other) that present piano-roll-based
         | rapid prototyping and traditional western score notation as
         | diametric opposites. From day 1, Logic challenged itself "what
         | if we can use the same event-based data model to render both."
         | 
         | None of this complexity is hidden - you can edit the raw event
         | stream directly. If you're a developer familiar with, say,
         | React, it makes music creation quite intuitive - everything
         | from visual to audio output is a function of a transparently
         | formatted data store.
         | 
         | And while that has its challenges, and some of the UX
         | innovations of e.g. MuseScore have been slower to arrive in
         | Logic, because of this "dual life" it's unmatched as a
         | pedogogical tool, and a professional creative tool as well.
        
           | jmsgwd wrote:
           | How else could you represent piano roll data than as a stream
           | of events? I thought that was ubiquitous since the invention
           | of MIDI.
           | 
           | Are you saying other sequencers are unable to render the same
           | data as piano roll and score?
        
             | btown wrote:
             | Among professional-ready DAWs, as far as I know, it's
             | unique in its approach. Pro Tools and FL Studio still don't
             | have score rendering or even MusicXML export! Reaper has
             | limited score rendering/engraving support, but minimal
             | customizability.
             | 
             | And on the notation-oriented side, you have things like
             | MuseScore, Finale, etc. where there is an event model, but
             | the UI itself doesn't have mature (or any) support for
             | tracking mixer/knob automation (outside of what can be
             | derived automatically from dynamic symbols).
             | 
             | Years ago, I used Logic in a musical theater context where
             | I could build a constantly-updated demo for
             | pitching/rehearsals/live-iteration _and_ edit the final
             | orchestration to be printed for the pit orchestra, both
             | from the same living document. Could I have duplicated my
             | changes in a DAW and notation software separately, and kept
             | them in sync manually? Absolutely, and many creators do.
             | But there 's something special about having that holy grail
             | at your fingertips.
        
               | einr wrote:
               | _Among professional-ready DAWs, as far as I know, it 's
               | unique in its approach._
               | 
               | Cubase, surely? I'm pretty sure it has done this for
               | _decades_ unless I am misunderstanding what you 're
               | saying.
        
           | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
           | There's a lot of information in a traditional western score
           | that cannot be easily represented in a pianoroll, at least
           | not losslessly.
           | 
           | Considering them as alternate views of the same data model
           | gets problematic when the composer uses the full bag of
           | tricks that score notation allows (notably repeats, but also
           | the problem of representing tuplets correctly when a
           | pianoroll can offer no clues about how to structure them). So
           | for example, the user can create a set of notes in the
           | pianoroll that will never be played correctly by anyone
           | reading the score; the user can create dynamics in the score
           | that cannot be correctly presented in the pianoroll version.
           | 
           | I'm not saying it isn't possible to do an MVC-style system
           | with two different views of the same data model - it clearly
           | is. It's just moving between the two views is not lossless,
           | and moving between the two controllers (i.e. editing) is not
           | equivalent.
        
         | deafpolygon wrote:
         | My concern here is are they going to start locking features for
         | Pages, Numbers, and Keynote behind a paywall? Yes, it's free--
         | but will they still have all of the newer features without a
         | subscription?
        
           | mrkstu wrote:
           | I'm assuming that they're going to (fairly) lock AI
           | generative features behind the subscription since they'll be
           | incurring ongoing costs.
        
           | apparent wrote:
           | They'll be pressured by gdocs and other similar products to
           | not keep too much of this behind a paywall. I already don't
           | know anyone who loves using Pages (every time I share a
           | document I have to export it to .docx, which is annoying), so
           | they're already starting off behind by a bit.
        
             | deafpolygon wrote:
             | I really enjoy Pages, but if they're going to lock stuff
             | behind a paywall -- it might be time to look at other
             | things. I can't afford to add a whole bunch of new
             | subscriptions.
        
         | kolanos wrote:
         | Does this mean Keynote and Pages are now paid products? Aren't
         | they included with Mac OS?
        
           | aobdev wrote:
           | From the subheading: "plus new AI features and premium
           | content in Keynote, Pages, and Numbers"
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | > Educational discount with verification required drops the
         | price to $2.99/mo / $29.99/yr.
         | 
         | Guess it's time to take some online self-paced courses at a
         | university for no reason in particular ...
        
         | benterix wrote:
         | Make the one-time purchase while you still can. The educational
         | version is a great value, and the license allows the software
         | to be used for commercial purposes.
        
         | sleepybrett wrote:
         | Meanwhile the subscription for Adobe Premiere ALONE is 22.99/mo
        
           | FireBeyond wrote:
           | Yeah, I'm pissed that the Photography plan
           | (Lightroom/Photoshop) has gone from 9.99/mo to 24.99/mo in
           | the last 18 months.
        
       | al_borland wrote:
       | Too bad they killed Aperture.
        
         | hbbio wrote:
         | Now they acquired Photomator with Pixelmator, but it's still an
         | independent subscription... not even included in this bundle.
         | Maybe they just forgot.
        
       | dormento wrote:
       | Wow, RIP the icons I guess :/
        
       | kurishutofu wrote:
       | When was the last time Apple made some significant update to its
       | professional desktop apps?
        
         | joezydeco wrote:
         | Forget that. TikTokers are the revenue stream now.
        
           | embedding-shape wrote:
           | TikTokers ("influencers" in general) don't do their editing
           | or any part of their "production pipeline" on computers, kids
           | are doing the full thing via smartphones nowadays. Blew my
           | mind initially too, as I always did "serious work" at a
           | computer and never the phone, but seems they're managing it
           | somehow.
        
             | no_wizard wrote:
             | They often start there, some stay there, some graduate to
             | an iPad, but a a lot of the higher end creators absolutely
             | edit in desktops or laptops (usually MacBooks)
             | 
             | My old job dealt with this quite a lot as they were our
             | target market, so I got some up close views of how for
             | example, creators like MrBeast go about their editing (well
             | the employees anyway)
             | 
             | Though I did note a lot of creators that do graduate to
             | more robust software basically go from lightweight editor
             | via Canva -> iMovie or equivalent -> professional software
             | e.g. FCPX or Premiere
        
               | embedding-shape wrote:
               | Yeah, that matches what I've seen too, bigger productions
               | adopting a more traditional pipeline, while "influencers"
               | or whatever they're called today, kind of stick with the
               | tools they've learned, until they "graduate" as they
               | expand the team and bring in actual professionals.
        
           | rvz wrote:
           | They use CapCut which is free and on the web and Google Docs.
           | 
           | To them what Apple just announced is trash.
        
         | tarentel wrote:
         | Logic Pro gets regular updates. I believe most of it is AI
         | driven nonsense but they are making changes. Flashback capture
         | was a nice fairly recent addition and surprising this wasn't
         | implemented sooner. There are also regular bug fixes and
         | performance improvements. I can't speak for the other apps.
         | 
         | https://support.apple.com/en-afri/109503
        
       | tjpnz wrote:
       | Pages, Numbers and Keynote are the first apps I bin whenever I'm
       | setting up a new Mac. Would people actually pay money for them?
        
         | troupo wrote:
         | They want you to pay money for premium AI features in those
         | apps, which is worse.
         | 
         | The apps themselves are fine IMO.
        
         | piersroberts wrote:
         | I'd forgotten Pages and Numbers existed, but Keynote is worth
         | paying for if it means that I don't have to use PowerPoint.
        
         | embedding-shape wrote:
         | > Would people actually pay money for them?
         | 
         | Why would someone need to buy them, they only run on macOS and
         | macOS hardware comes with it by default, doesn't it?
        
         | nottorp wrote:
         | I use Pages once a month for an invoice :)
         | 
         | Not sure why tbh, my other invoices are done in LibreOffice.
        
         | insane_dreamer wrote:
         | I absolutely would. I've used them for years, alongside MS
         | Office on Windows and Libre Office on Linux, and while they
         | lack a few features they're not ones I've ever needed and the
         | UI and ease of use is far superior to Office. Especially Pages
         | is a pleasure to work with compared with Word.
        
         | void-pointer wrote:
         | Numbers is brilliant simply because of independent freely-
         | movable tables
         | 
         | It looks so much better than the grid enforced by Excel.
        
           | bromuro wrote:
           | Yeah Numbers wins, when going back to Excel I miss it. It's
           | not as powerful though.
        
         | pico303 wrote:
         | Keynote is so much better for presentations that PowerPoint
         | it's not even funny. But if you're not doing presentations, I
         | can understand dumping it. I do like to have Pages because it
         | means I don't have to bother with Word's annoying ribbon
         | interface and Copilot AI when I'm writing...though sounds like
         | that may be changing?
        
           | quitit wrote:
           | Keynote is completely underrated, likely because people
           | assume it's just a Powerpoint clone, but it's more like a
           | highly templated motion graphics app with a UI that steers
           | people into using it as Powerpoint replacement.
           | 
           | So not only is it a far quicker way to make a PPT than using
           | Powerpoint. I also see it used for making presentation
           | videos, interactive PDFs and even animated GIFs/HTML5
           | animations.
           | 
           | The number of motion graphics marketing videos I see which
           | are actually just Keynote files exported to video is
           | impressive.
        
         | data-ottawa wrote:
         | I put up with Numbers awful pivot table mechanics (why do they
         | have to be manually updated?) because it genuinely allows you
         | to create nice information displays with your tables.
         | 
         | I have a numbers file for my personal finances and it is so
         | nice having some tables at the top with mortgage info and then
         | details below. It makes running what-ifs super easy. Charts in
         | excel and GSheets just kinda float over your content awkwardly.
        
         | PlunderBunny wrote:
         | I paid for Numbers way back when it was a paid app. I have
         | simple needs, and I much preferred the smooth inertial
         | scrolling compared to running Excel in a VM (which was what I
         | was doing before).
        
       | fidotron wrote:
       | > These apps will continue receiving updates, with the latest
       | versions adopting the beautiful new visual design language with
       | Liquid Glass on all platforms
       | 
       | Are the Apple people really this oblivious, or is someone in PR
       | trolling us?
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | Apple no longer supports GL, so Liquid Glass - GL = Liquid Ass.
        
         | codebyaditya wrote:
         | I read it less as obliviousness and more as internal language
         | leaking into marketing. What's "Liquid Glass" to Apple reads
         | like an aesthetic system though but to outsiders it sounds like
         | jargon inflation. I feel the gap between internal coherence and
         | external clarity shows up in these releases a lot.
        
           | faust201 wrote:
           | Pretty sure these marketing speak was decided half-an-year
           | before. Sales and marketing just do their job
           | 
           | /S
        
           | nottorp wrote:
           | > like an aesthetic system
           | 
           | An idiotic aesthetic system that ignores all the human
           | interface guidelines that the Apple of 30+ years ago helped
           | start.
        
         | storus wrote:
         | I guess it's enforced top-down. Yesterday I picked up my
         | MacBook from a logicboard repair and they forced Tahoe on it
         | despite running Sonoma originally so I spent most of yesterday
         | getting rid of Tahoe and reverting back to Sonoma.
        
           | Fnoord wrote:
           | Sonoma won't receive updates for long any more. Better off
           | switching to Sequoia. It'll give you 20 months to switch
           | away, instead of 8 months.
        
             | storus wrote:
             | Each new macOS version brings new restrictions causing some
             | essential apps to stop working or work in a more
             | complicated way so I keep delaying macOS upgrades as late
             | as possible. macOS used to be an OS that lowered my
             | cognitive complexity but that's no longer true these days
             | due to security overreach.
        
               | einr wrote:
               | As a macOS sysadmin I feel this in my bones, and of
               | course I don't know what apps are essential for you, but
               | FWIW Sequoia has been basically identical to Sonoma for
               | me. In fact I had to double check what I was running on
               | this computer before writing this because there's just no
               | functional or aesthetic difference that I know of off the
               | top of my head.
               | 
               | (And yes, I'm holding off on Sonoma for as long as
               | possible because... yuck)
        
         | baggachipz wrote:
         | Have you never had to toe a company line before?
        
         | guestbest wrote:
         | It sounds like internally it's a checklist item they have to
         | mention everywhere.
        
           | cons0le wrote:
           | Yep, it's not trolling, it's just them doing the job. A well
           | paid lawyer will defend a client even if they're guilty
        
             | 12345hn6789 wrote:
             | A well paid lawyer defending a guilty client is upholding
             | the Justice system. Every man has a right to a fair trial.
             | 
             | Apple wasting years of everyones time on bad faith UX
             | design
        
         | blitzar wrote:
         | someone in PR is trolling
         | 
         | the beatings with liquid glass will continue till morale
         | improves
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | They don't have much of a choice. They bet the house on liquid
         | glass and need to keep up appearances.
        
           | reddalo wrote:
           | I think they just need to wait a bit and then present
           | something more sensible as the new hot design.
        
           | msabalau wrote:
           | When you are in a hole you can at least stop digging.
        
           | mh2266 wrote:
           | > They bet the house on liquid glass
           | 
           | How? If they reverted to the previous iOS and macOS designs,
           | Apple would go out of business?
        
             | pier25 wrote:
             | God only knows how much money they invested into the new
             | GUI engine for all their platforms. It was a super
             | expensive bet.
        
               | lII1lIlI11ll wrote:
               | > God only knows how much money they invested into the
               | new GUI engine for all their platforms. It was a super
               | expensive bet.
               | 
               | What are you basing these claims on?
        
         | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
         | You've never worked at BigCorp have you? At Amazon, part of the
         | initial indoctrination when I was hired there was competitive
         | messaging when talking to clients (I worked in ProServe) and
         | what you were never allowed to say. I remember we could never
         | say we had a "moat".
         | 
         | I'm sure there is approved marketing copy.
        
         | matthoiland wrote:
         | Dear Apple, Please do not add liquid glass to your professional
         | applications. Keep it simple, gray, performant, and functional.
         | Thank you.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | Doesn't matter. The apps run on the OS, the latest hardware
           | only runs the OS at the hardware release date and later.
           | You're getting the Fisher-Price UI whether you want it or
           | not, even if the apps never change a thing.
        
         | bromuro wrote:
         | I like the Liquid Glass design so this is a point for me.
        
         | sgustard wrote:
         | At least in the screenshots I did not notice absurdly large
         | window corner radii.
        
           | lynndotpy wrote:
           | Because every app is presented in fullscreen. Showing the
           | windowing system would make sense if this was announced pre-
           | LG.
        
       | me_online wrote:
       | apple can pry my one-time final cut pro purchase from my cold,
       | dead hands.
        
         | acomjean wrote:
         | Many years ago, before Final Cut Pro x my cousin asked me to
         | help inject some video from tapes and keep the time code. In
         | Final Cut Pro. I couldn't figure it out.
         | 
         | So in desperation I read the manual. It was seriously well
         | written and I understood the program, what needed to be done
         | and how to do it.
        
       | sirwhinesalot wrote:
       | And here's the ruining of Pixelmator Pro everyone was waiting
       | for. I paid _one time_ 20 euros for it (discounted). And I would
       | gladly pay again even full price for a new major version.
       | 
       | I don't want yet another subscription.
       | 
       | I see that they can still be bought (for now) but I wonder how
       | long that will last.
        
         | joshstrange wrote:
         | One-time purchase versions are still available. For Pixelmator
         | Pro it's $49.99 on the App Store
        
           | sirwhinesalot wrote:
           | For now.
        
           | dsego wrote:
           | That's not very reassuring.
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | Pixelmator Pro is upgraded a couple of times under Apple's
         | wings, and this thing is not being ruined.
         | 
         | You'll still be able to buy it if you want. All apps are still
         | can be bought. It's in the text.
         | 
         | Apple surprised me nicely there.
        
       | moolcool wrote:
       | How long until the option to buy-once for this software goes
       | away? I am not a fan of this trend.
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | You will (soon) own nothing and be happy.
        
       | joshstrange wrote:
       | In this thread: No one who has even skimmed the article
       | 
       | I'll say this loud for the people in the back: YOU CAN STILL BUY
       | IT OUTRIGHT
       | 
       | They are still offering one-time purchases, calm down.
        
         | dsego wrote:
         | But for how long?
        
       | andsoitis wrote:
       | Excited to see whether the new Apple boss will lead to software
       | innovation, which has been pretty stagnant the last few years.
       | 
       | https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/08/technology/apple-ceo-tim-...
        
       | EagnaIonat wrote:
       | Are they planning to discontinue Garage band?
        
       | kace91 wrote:
       | I don't get why they think "professional" is a generic tier.
       | 
       | If I'm a music producer, what's the value of being given a
       | digital art drawing program? If I'm an illustrator, why do I need
       | a cinema post production suite?
       | 
       | Some people might happen to do both, but overlap is largely
       | accidental, right? The fact that they think of all professions as
       | a bundle is even insulting as it signals the products are mostly
       | toys/hobbyist stuff.
        
         | jen20 wrote:
         | > If I'm a music producer, what's the value of being given a
         | digital art drawing program? If I'm an illustrator, why do I
         | need a cinema post production suite
         | 
         | Are you talking about Adobe here?
        
           | bigyabai wrote:
           | Probably not, seeing as Creative Cloud has bundles focused on
           | specific mediums.
        
             | jen20 wrote:
             | Their default is the "All" plan which includes many of the
             | same categories as the Apple bundle.
        
         | Forgeties79 wrote:
         | A lot of people round trip through various softwares to create
         | things. As a film editor I use NLE's, DAW's, music production
         | tools, various encoders (like compressor), graphic design
         | tools...I'd say it's the norm not the exception to need 2-3
         | specialized pieces of software during projects.
        
         | steve1977 wrote:
         | I think that's why they call it "Creator" studio. Creators - in
         | the way the term is usually used today - indeed do use many of
         | these tools. Maybe you produce music, create a video about you
         | producing music and also need an engaging thumbnail for
         | YouTube.
         | 
         | In a feature film production, these would certainly be separate
         | roles. But apart from maybe Logic Pro for composers, Apple's
         | tools are not really relevant at those levels of the
         | entertainment business anymore. Post-pro would be Pro Tools for
         | audio, something like Avid Media Composer for editing etc.
         | 
         | I think Apple has realized they are not playing on that level
         | anymore and target their marketing to where they are still in
         | the game. That's not necessarily a bad move.
        
           | tarentel wrote:
           | Tons of professionals use logic. Really, you will find money
           | making musicians using any of the major daws. Pro tools might
           | still be the standard for recording studios but that's likely
           | it.
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | Most musicians I know use Ableton or Bitwig on macOS. Logic
             | Pro is really a hassle for collaboration and touring from
             | what I've heard.
        
             | steve1977 wrote:
             | My point was more that creators will often use more than
             | one tool.
             | 
             | I know Logic is widespread amongst beat producers and
             | songwriters, especially in the US. But you will also often
             | see tracks getting produced on Logic but the final mix then
             | happens on Pro Tools (by professional mixing engineers).
             | 
             | But that's why I explicitly mentioned Logic, I think it's
             | the one pro app from Apple that still deserves the moniker,
             | at least in regards to where it is used. The video stuff
             | not so much anymore.
        
         | acuozzo wrote:
         | > I don't get why they think "professional" is a generic tier.
         | 
         | The target market is prosumer, not true professional.
        
           | vehemenz wrote:
           | I don't think there's that much of a distinction.
           | 
           | The real difference is that a "true professional" already has
           | the software--purchased at full price by themselves or by
           | their employer--and doesn't need a subscription in the first
           | place.
        
             | acuozzo wrote:
             | The biggest distinction, in my experience, is that
             | prosumers tend to be means-focused and professionals tend
             | to be ends-focused, so there's less zealotry and evangelism
             | in professional circles.
        
               | steve1977 wrote:
               | Also in professional circles, there's usually one or two
               | industry standards and you just use what everyone else is
               | using.
        
         | vehemenz wrote:
         | Many people that use professional tools are genuinely doing
         | hobbyist stuff. Especially if they haven't already bought their
         | tools outright.
         | 
         | But besides, this subscription works with Family Sharing and is
         | only $12, so it looks easy to get your money's worth.
        
       | lemonlime227 wrote:
       | The individual one time purchase versions are still available for
       | all the apps. Final Cut, Logic, Motion, Compressor, and MainStage
       | are offered in a bundle for education by Apple as a $199.99 one
       | time purchase (no education status is verified) [1]. Pixelmator
       | Pro is available as a one time purchase as well for $49.99 [2].
       | Not included in the Creator Studio is the Lightroom alternative
       | Photomator, which is available as a one time purchase of $119.99.
       | You could recreate just the Creator Studio as a one time $250
       | purchase, or the entire suite (including Photomator) for $370.
       | 
       | Not available for one time purchase are the AI features and
       | templates available for the free apps (Keynote, Pages, Numbers,
       | Freeform).
       | 
       | Personally, I'm glad that one time purchases are still options
       | for the core pro suite: long term they do hold value compared to
       | paying Adobe a subscription (or dealing with the high seas on
       | macOS). However, I don't see things like the education bundle
       | sticking around much longer, so purchase it sooner rather than
       | later.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.apple.com/us-edu/shop/product/bmge2z/a/pro-
       | apps-...
       | 
       | [2]: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pixelmator-pro/id1289583905
        
         | no_wizard wrote:
         | The inclusion of Pixelmator Pro is simply so they no longer
         | have a hole in the software lineup as a competitor vs Affinity
         | (I think the real competitor to this bundle) and Adobe
         | 
         | I think they view Photos as a viable replacement for Lightroom
         | and equivalents.
        
           | admp wrote:
           | Photomator would be a more level Lightroom alternative, odd
           | it's not included in the new Creator Studio package.
        
             | AlanYx wrote:
             | That's probably a clue that maintaining Photomator is not
             | on Apple's long-term roadmap. I imagine they'll merge some
             | features into Photos and eventually discontinue it.
        
         | silveira wrote:
         | Thanks for the info, I was looking for this. I have the "Pro
         | Apps Bundle for Education" that I bought years ago and it is an
         | fantastic deal.
        
         | lemonlime227 wrote:
         | Additional info: Final Cut Pro is going to keep getting
         | updates, but certain features (presumably AI related) are not
         | going to be included with the one time purchase and are gated
         | to the subscription [1].
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.apple.com/final-cut-
         | pro/#:~:text=A%20one%2Dtime%...
        
       | throwaway85825 wrote:
       | Another subscription slop?
        
       | samgranieri wrote:
       | I wondered when Apple was going to do this. Seemed inevitable
       | when Final Cut Pro on the iPad had a subscription, I think.
       | 
       | I hope I can still use the non subscription version of Pixelmator
       | pro I bought
        
       | aosaigh wrote:
       | It's odd not to see Photomator in this bundle. Feels even more
       | likely that they're going to kill it off in place of the regular
       | Photos app.
        
       | andsoitis wrote:
       | Innovation!
       | 
       | More seriously, the subscription probably comes out cheaper than
       | buying several (even if not all) of the apps that come in the
       | bundle.
        
         | lysace wrote:
         | Yeah! They were courageous enough to take the step that
         | Microsoft did with the Office suite (announced 1988, launched
         | 1990) and with Microsoft 365 as subscription in 2011.
        
       | Kye wrote:
       | I'm keeping an eye on Graphite (https://graphite.art/) as
       | something to move to from Affinity's stuff, but it's good there's
       | a new option for people who need more.
        
       | geerlingguy wrote:
       | I still miss Aperture. Photos is a far cry still, many years
       | later.
       | 
       | Lightroom never matched Aperture's organizational abilities for
       | libraries with tens of thousands of RAW photos.
        
         | apgwoz wrote:
         | I've been waiting to see what happens with Photomator, and the
         | fact that it's not being included in anyway here makes me think
         | it might not survive? Either that, or it's gonna be heavily
         | integrated into Photos...
        
           | herrherrmann wrote:
           | I was also surprised to not see Photomator included. Wouldn't
           | it perfectly complement the lineup? I hadn't thought of such
           | a pessimistic interpretation, but now I'm worried as well ...
        
             | apgwoz wrote:
             | I think Apple killed Aperture primarily because it was
             | confusing to have iPhoto and Aperture with largely
             | overlapping workflows. Aperture had the loupe view, and
             | side by side comparison stuff, saved color grading tools (I
             | think?), sure, but it wasn't differentiated enough to
             | justify a Pro designation. I think it makes more sense for
             | Photomator features to be absorbed into Photos... and maybe
             | Photos gets some new Pixelmator integrations if you have
             | it, for quick touch ups / enhancement type things.
             | 
             | On the other hand, Final Cut / iMovie will exist side by
             | side because it's truly a basic vs Pro situation.
             | 
             | Not a product manager at Apple, of course, but this is what
             | logically seems to make sense.
        
               | herrherrmann wrote:
               | Uff, I sure hope you are wrong! I don't want to use the
               | iCloud library for photos, but have my photos available
               | as digital files elsewhere on the ssd. Of course, your
               | prediction makes more sense from Apple's standpoint,
               | unfortunately.
        
               | apgwoz wrote:
               | I do like the convenience of iCloud, but totally agree
               | that having them safe elsewhere is necessary. I've been
               | pretty bad about keeping solid, non-iCloud backups of my
               | photos. I definitely need to be more proactive about it.
        
               | jeffbee wrote:
               | I mean, the friendly way to kill off the differences
               | between Aperture and Photos would have been to add all
               | the missing workflow stuff to Photos _before_ killing
               | Aperture. Photos did not get lift-and-stamp edits until
               | late 2022, years after Aperture was discontinued, and it
               | isn 't as good as the corresponding feature in Aperture
               | was. Also, it would have been cool if the Photos import
               | from Aperture library had ever worked, even a little bit.
               | I keep an external hard drive around with my old Aperture
               | library because I know it contains photos that Photos.app
               | still hasn't pulled in correctly.
        
         | haunter wrote:
         | I wish there was something like GOG but for old general
         | software
        
         | canbus wrote:
         | Tried Darktable?
        
           | data-ottawa wrote:
           | For me it didn't work with Fuji RAW, so I couldn't really use
           | it.
        
         | squidsoup wrote:
         | Frustrating that Photos is really not suitable for anything
         | other than editing snaps. I'd love to ditch Adobe, but
         | Darktable doesn't support Fuji raws, and there really aren't
         | that many great commercial alternatives to Lightroom that don't
         | also have a subscription model.
        
       | reactordev wrote:
       | Apple CC
       | 
       | Like Adobe CC
       | 
       | I love Logic and all but really?
       | 
       | I can't help but notice Apple in the last decade has kind of been
       | spinning in circles software wise while their hardware division
       | makes breakthroughs with M-series chips.
       | 
       | 2026, the year of the Linux Desktop...
        
       | rado wrote:
       | Pixelmator Pro is fantastic. I've forgotten about Photoshop for
       | many years. Just buy it.
        
       | felineflock wrote:
       | That Synth Player and Chord ID seem to be killer features on
       | Logic Pro. Are they recent additions? Do they work well?
        
         | steve1977 wrote:
         | It's not released yet.
        
       | H1Supreme wrote:
       | Seems like a pretty solid deal, if you need everything. I don't
       | know who that person is though. The intersection between Final
       | Cut Pro and Logic users is pretty small, I'd imagine.
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | I'm that kind of user but I would rather not use Logic, Final
         | Cut, or PixelMator unless Apple really improves those. On top
         | of that there's also the platform lock-in concern.
        
         | 542458 wrote:
         | TBF, you can say the same thing for adobe creative cloud - the
         | intersection between After Effects and Indesign users is also
         | effectively nil!
         | 
         | But having one simple opex line item for "software I buy for
         | the creative types" is appealing for a lot of orgs.
        
           | pier25 wrote:
           | But the CC subscriptions offers a lot more.
           | 
           | Photohsop, Illustrator and After Effects are pretty much
           | industry standards.
        
             | srik wrote:
             | Apple really should've grabbed Affinity before canva.
             | Would've rounded out this suite much better.
        
               | pier25 wrote:
               | Yeah. The Affinity team with Apple's resources could have
               | made an amazing Adobe CC alternative for Mac users.
        
           | doctorpangloss wrote:
           | Yes, re: opex. The product is "renewals," not software
           | really.
        
         | cush wrote:
         | Subs like this are great for people who can't afford the full
         | versions yet
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | There's quite a few creative hobbyists and freelancers.
         | 
         | In a past life, I'd have fallen quite squarely in the latter
         | and I still fall in the former.
         | 
         | Given this also extends to my family, it feels like a no-
         | brainer replacement for creative cloud.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | This is Off Topic, but the first thing I notice on that page were
       | those icons for apps with Apple Creator Studio.
       | 
       | They look _AWEFUL_.
        
         | MattRix wrote:
         | I don't think they look awful, and they're more interesting and
         | opinionated than most boring icons you see these days.
        
           | simjnd wrote:
           | They're definitely awful compared to the icons they're
           | replacing. Losing so much identity and detail.
        
         | lexoj wrote:
         | It has that new slop aesthetics.
        
           | steve1977 wrote:
           | Yup, looks like they have been created by some intern with
           | Image Playground.
        
         | toddmorey wrote:
         | TERRIBLE! Can't believe Apple is using these.
        
         | concinds wrote:
         | It's a massacre. The originals[0] were metaphorical and easy to
         | grasp. These new ones are meaningless, for most of them you
         | can't guess what the app does from the icon. The beautiful
         | 3-axis colorwheel gimbal, gone. The concert access badge, gone.
         | The pressed record award replaced with a disc? Is that the MP3
         | player app?
         | 
         | And Final Cut Pro looks like Windows 11's garbage free
         | ClipChamp! None of them have the gravitas of the old ones.
         | 
         | It's weird because uniformity and minimalism haven't been "in"
         | in years, outside the Silicon Valley bubble. They're very
         | culturally out of touch.
         | 
         | [0]:
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/1qbz6g8/whos_excited...
        
       | speak_plainly wrote:
       | This seems like an Apple AI subscription under the guise of a
       | software bundle.
       | 
       | It's a good value for some, especially if you want to use FCP,
       | but seems like a bad value for most users who are expecting more
       | value from their Mac purchase.
       | 
       | I wonder if new Macs will offer a three-month trial for this
       | suite, or if the standard apps will be pre-installed and the AI
       | features are unlocked through a subscription.
       | 
       | If bundled versions of iWork go away, we may see a renaissance
       | for G Suite.
        
         | TimTheTinker wrote:
         | Sounds plausible. Someone internally likely has AI sales
         | numbers to meet, so creating new subscriptions and adding "AI"
         | to them can help juice AI-related numbers toward that quota.
        
       | NoSalt wrote:
       | > _" come together in a single SUBSCRIPTION"_
       | 
       | Ummm ... no, thank you.
        
       | arvinsim wrote:
       | Is the one-time purchase versions guaranteed for life?
       | 
       | If not, then this would likely go the way of others before where
       | it will eventually be removed.
        
         | prmoustache wrote:
         | Nothing is ever guaranteed for life...except the promise of
         | death.
        
       | WillAdams wrote:
       | Is anyone finding Freeform useful?
       | 
       | I tried it out when it was first announced and found it painfully
       | limited --- did I miss something? Has it gotten better?
        
         | jonpurdy wrote:
         | I find it useful as a massive canvas for keeping a bunch of
         | stuff in context, visually. And accessible via Mac and iPhone.
         | But it is sorely lacking a major feature: highlight text to add
         | a hyperlink. I end up with full URLs instead of hyperlinked
         | words and it's pretty messy.
        
         | Toutouxc wrote:
         | I use it regularly to do rough sketches of objects on my iPad
         | to model in CAD later on the computer. It doesn't feel right
         | for artwork or notes or basically anything else.
        
       | cush wrote:
       | That's a great deal
        
       | nxobject wrote:
       | When you're not plowing money into putting AI everywhere, it's
       | easier to be cheaper than Adobe I guess...
       | 
       | (For what it's worth, the iWorks apps - Pages/Keynote/Numbers are
       | free and bundled with macOS.)
        
       | noodlesUK wrote:
       | I think this is a huge mistake at least as far as the office
       | software goes. One of the key advantages to Pages.app and friends
       | is that they are pre-installed and free on MacOS. This will just
       | drive people to M365 and Google Docs.
        
         | zffr wrote:
         | Pages and other iWork apps will remain free. The premium
         | features are for curated images and templates, and AI assisted
         | document creation. If you don't care for those features, you
         | will not be affected by the change.
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | Good thing they remain free and pre installed. As per the
         | article.
        
       | wildredkraut wrote:
       | lol, what a money grab.
        
       | tomovo wrote:
       | It's a pity Apple didn't choose to acquire Affinity when there
       | was a chance. Pixelmator Pro looks like a toy app compared to
       | Logic or Final Cut. I don't see how it could ever catch up to
       | Photoshop. Even at such small scale it's always been very buggy
       | in my experience and development seems to have stalled (apart
       | from some obligatory AI features).
       | 
       | I am glad the standalone purchases are still available and I
       | assume they will stay updated in sync with the subscription-based
       | ones. I would hate my copy of Logic getting slowly obsolete..
        
         | philistine wrote:
         | Affinity never made mac-assed Mac apps. Pixelmator is more a
         | Mac app than Messages or Music. That's why they bought them
         | instead of Affinity.
        
           | tomovo wrote:
           | Maybe. Form over function, not a surprise.
        
         | handsclean wrote:
         | Your experience is starkly different than mine. Are you sure
         | you aren't thinking of Pixelmator, Pixelmator Pro's much more
         | toy-like predecessor from ~10 years ago?
         | 
         | My experience is that while there's a feature and community gap
         | for both Pixelmator Pro and Affinity, Affinity just tried to
         | copy Photoshop, positioning it as a worse but cheaper
         | Photoshop, while Pixelmator Pro feels like an attempt to make a
         | better photo editor, losing some familiarity points but also
         | being tangibly better than Photoshop at most use cases it can
         | handle, which is many. It's also an excellent macOS citizen.
         | Between those two factors, it seems much more up Apple's alley.
        
           | tomovo wrote:
           | I guess it depends a lot on the use cases. I've used both the
           | original Pixelmator app and the "Pro" may have been a rewrite
           | internally but it didn't feel like a significant step up for
           | me at the time, more like a rebrand and a way to charge for
           | it again. And so many bugs. The development team did respond
           | to a few of my bug reports, which was nice.
        
         | Petersipoi wrote:
         | Your experience couldn't be more different than mine. I love
         | Pixelmator Pro. One of my favorite apps on my computer. Super
         | quick and snappy. Does what I need it to. Which doesn't mean it
         | does what everyone needs it to. I get that it isn't a Photoshop
         | replacement. But not everyone needs a Photoshop replacement.
        
       | brcmthrowaway wrote:
       | Does anyone use these apps?
        
       | pentagrama wrote:
       | Here is a quick side by side comparison between Apple Creator
       | Studio and the Adobe Creative Cloud suite. Each app may be
       | stronger or weaker depending on the use case, workflow, and
       | specific user needs, so this is only a rough equivalence.
       | Function            | Apple                | Adobe
       | | Adobe price / month         --------------------|--------------
       | --------|---------------------|--------------------         Image
       | editing       | Pixelmator Pro       | Photoshop           | ~USD
       | 20         Video editing       | Final Cut Pro        | Premiere
       | Pro        | ~USD 23         Motion graphics     | Motion
       | | After Effects       | ~USD 23         Audio production    |
       | Logic Pro            | Audition            | ~USD 23
       | Video encoding      | Compressor           | Media Encoder
       | | Included with Premiere Pro         Live audio          |
       | MainStage            | No direct equivalent| N/A
       | Docs/presentations  | Keynote/Pages/Numbers| Express/Acrobat
       | | ~USD 10 to 24         --------------------|--------------------
       | --|---------------------|--------------------         TOTAL
       | | USD 12.99 / month    | ~USD 100+ / month   |
       | | (7 apps bundle)      | (5 apps separately)|
       | |                      | USD 69.99 / month  |
       | |                      | (bundle 20+ apps)  |
       | 
       | Disclaimer: table formatting assisted by ChatGPT (hope it works
       | on HN).
        
         | Svoka wrote:
         | Pixelmator probably is Lightroom. And adobe has "Photography
         | Bundle" with Lightroom and Photoshop for $20/mo.
        
           | ezfe wrote:
           | No, Photomator (and Photos) is Lightroom. Pixelmator is
           | Photoshop.
        
           | mesh wrote:
           | No, Lightroom is a dedicated photo editor and DAM.
           | 
           | Pixelmator is closer to Photoshop, you can do some photo
           | editing, but its not focused on it, and does not have asset
           | management.
        
         | mesh wrote:
         | What this misses is that Creative Cloud is much more than a
         | bundle of apps. It includes everything you need around the apps
         | for pro workflows (i.e. fonts, AI, stock, collaboration,
         | etc...).
         | 
         | (I work for Adobe)
        
       | jwr wrote:
       | After Apple suddenly discontinued Aperture, which left users like
       | me with huge complex photo archives hanging, I will never trust
       | any professional software tool from Apple again. It is a disaster
       | that I still haven't fully recovered from.
       | 
       | I've learned my lesson -- all my archives will now be maintained
       | by me, in file structures, with metadata in text files.
        
         | incanus77 wrote:
         | Me too, with Aperture. Huge misstep and insult to the user
         | base.
         | 
         | This is a useful tool:
         | https://github.com/cormiertyshawn895/Retroactive
         | 
         | However, you still need to run an older OS. I've still got on
         | my todo list the process of fixing all of this.
        
         | trinix912 wrote:
         | Not only Aperture. The FCP7-FCPX transition was a disaster as
         | well.
        
         | redundantly wrote:
         | It's been a decade and it still hurts that it was discontinued.
        
         | steve1977 wrote:
         | Logic users on Windows also weren't too happy when Apple bought
         | Emagic and dropped Windows support shortly after.
        
         | dgxyz wrote:
         | Learned that lesson too. Then got into Lightroom. Now getting
         | out of that by exporting stuff slowly. Moving to files on disk
         | and edits in Darktable now. No "library".
        
         | movedx wrote:
         | Please don't take this as me saying you were wrong to ever
         | trust Apple, however the best way to organise any data is
         | usually just files on a disk.
         | 
         | That's becoming a recurring theme for me and even some of my
         | corporate clients now. Confluence, for example, is out the
         | window for secure documentation around sensitive environments
         | and Word Docs in One Drive are back in. It's surprisingly
         | refreshing and gets the job done way better.
        
           | f_allwein wrote:
           | Power tip: replace the Word docs with Markdown.
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | From what I recall, aperture did use files-on-a-disk,
           | maintaining original photos read-only and letting everything
           | else be operations on those originals.
           | 
           | (am I recalling correctly?)
        
           | dgxyz wrote:
           | Agree with all of this, apart from possibly OneDrive but
           | that's for another post.
           | 
           | Not Apple-specific really that point for sure anyway.
           | Personally I don't think we should _ever_ ever trust any
           | vendor to control our data or act as a proxy for access to
           | it. If it 's not on a physical disk in your hands, in a
           | format which is documented and can be opened by more than one
           | application, then you're one step away from being screwed.
           | There are so many tangible risks we love to sweep under the
           | rug from geopolitics, commercial stability, security, bugs to
           | unexpected side effects. And I've seen some real horror
           | stories on all of those fronts.
           | 
           | At the same time I managed to embed myself thoroughly in it
           | and I'm 3 months in to undoing the mess. It's VERY hard to
           | get back to files on disk. No moving away from that is
           | probably the best option I suspect a lot of us never took.
           | 
           | Hardest stuff to get out of is iCloud/Apple and Adobe.
        
       | karmakaze wrote:
       | OT: ...protecting their privacy. LOL _(wrong playbook triggered
       | writing this)_
       | 
       | > [...] to make Apple Creator Studio an exciting subscription
       | suite to empower creators of all disciplines while protecting
       | their privacy.
        
       | krm01 wrote:
       | It's actually a pretty big deal. I always wondered why they didnt
       | compete with Adobe. Even when Steve Jobs was still around. 90%+
       | of Adobe users are on Macs.
       | 
       | Why though isn't such a significant announcement on the Apple.com
       | homepage?
        
         | mrkstu wrote:
         | Because Adobe would have gone Windows only, which would have
         | been a potentially fatal blow to Apple at the time. Same reason
         | Claris was spun out.
        
         | timeon wrote:
         | At least Acrobat reader is not relevant on macOS.
        
       | opengrass wrote:
       | Cool, just don't send me your project files in email attachments.
        
       | JeremyJaydan wrote:
       | I've had "buy motion" on my todo list for a while now.. just
       | wanted to learn something new but it never made sense to buy it.
       | With the subscription I think I'll give it a shot. Awesome!
        
       | zuInnp wrote:
       | Last thing I did when I was a student was to buy the Apple pro
       | apps bundle for education. It still haven't regretted it :D
       | 
       | So, if you are a student, you can get logic, final cut, motion,
       | compressor and mainStage for $199.99 for ever.
        
       | qubex wrote:
       | The only apps from Apple I give a sizeable fraction of a dam
       | about are Pages and Numbers, and hopefully they'll emerge from
       | the scourge of AI largely unscathed.
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | Fuck Apple I'm done with all their rent seeking and shit lock-in.
       | Broken CLI tools. Hello Asahi Linux and x64 FreeBSD.
        
       | imagetic wrote:
       | Bad move Apple. Bad move.
        
       | spankalee wrote:
       | Tangential, but: MainStage the best deal in the entire pro audio
       | industry.
       | 
       | As a keyboard player who mainly plays (and owns) classic electro-
       | mechanical keyboards like Hammonds, Rhodes, Clavinets, and
       | Wurlitzers, Apple's emulators that they brought from Logic are
       | really top-notch - often better than what you get with dedicated
       | hardware.
       | 
       | $30 is an insane price for what it delivers. I just wish it were
       | available for iPad, and I'd use it more for gigging.
        
       | bob1029 wrote:
       | > Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, Pixelmator Pro, Keynote, Pages,
       | Numbers
       | 
       | https://i.imgflip.com/2siu6l.jpg
        
       | nipperkinfeet wrote:
       | All these companies can go to hell with their subscription traps.
        
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