[HN Gopher] My Home Fibre Network Disintegrated
___________________________________________________________________
My Home Fibre Network Disintegrated
Author : alienchow
Score : 240 points
Date : 2026-01-11 04:19 UTC (18 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (alienchow.dev)
(TXT) w3m dump (alienchow.dev)
| johnboiles wrote:
| That seems incredibly fast for plastic to degrade like that. I
| wonder if you could have something generating ozone in there.
| alienchow wrote:
| I'm not sure either. It's not an air tight bomb shelter and
| it's used like an average storeroom, storing stuff like winter
| jackets, suitcases and paint. I do use small amounts of Calcium
| Chloride based dessicants to keep the room dry.
| mixologic wrote:
| Have you checked for Radon?
| lima wrote:
| Radon and its progenitors won't produce nearly enough
| radiation to damage plastics like that at naturally
| occurring levels.
| ajross wrote:
| Radon is a noble gas and chemically inert. It's
| radioactive, which is why it's a toxicity worry. But there
| was enough radiation in that basement to mechanically
| damage plastic in three years, OP would be long since dead.
| chneu wrote:
| If it's underground at all, check for radon.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| Radon is a noble gas. It's not going to affect fiber or
| wiring... but yes, if you're going to spend much time down
| there, definitely a good idea to check for it.
| VanTheBrand wrote:
| Radon is radioactive. The alpha particles it emits can
| break down polymers and degrade plastics.
| bluGill wrote:
| Interseting - I have high radon (mitigeted in the house
| via a fan), if I burry fibre what will I need to do to
| get something that will work? I have an outbuilding that
| I want to give internet.
| lima wrote:
| No, radiation from radon at naturally occurring levels
| won't cause any damage to plastics.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| If it were radioactive enough to do that, you'd have a
| much bigger problem than some networking flakiness.
| VanTheBrand wrote:
| I don't disagree but your comment made it sound
| impossible which it isn't.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| It absolutely is, for all practical purposes. Alpha
| radiation won't go more than 100 um or so into plastic.
| mzhaase wrote:
| Water based or solvent based paint?
| alienchow wrote:
| Should be solvent based.
| adzm wrote:
| My first thought exactly. I know someone who inadvertently
| melted a ton of stuff with overuse of an ozone generator,
| similar kind of effect
| joecool1029 wrote:
| I've had this failure on soft-touch usb cables from the 2000's,
| not related to movement, just in a box in room temperature
| storage they disintegrate like this. It was described to me as
| thermoplastic elastometer degradation but I'm not really
| satisfied with that vague of an answer. Main comment thread when
| I first jumped in to discuss it:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28054090
| golem14 wrote:
| I have a couple of USB cables from the 2000's like this, some
| of them original apple cables. But most are fine.
|
| While some show brittleless, more plstics goes gooey and tarry
| - especially some ABS coating that makes the material more
| grippable,like computer mice or binoculars.
| joecool1029 wrote:
| With the new information from OP we might have an answer. My
| phone cables were in box with phone and battery, enclosed
| space. I believe the battery electrolyte decomposing over the
| years outgassed and caused the TPE to degrade. mayyybe small
| amounts of hydrogen fluoride.
| russdill wrote:
| If you buy a consumer product labeled "military grade" you are
| buying snake oil. And not just snake oil, incredibly over priced
| snake oil.
| anonym29 wrote:
| Military grade: mass produced by the lowest bidder
| snowmobile wrote:
| I only use handmade artisanal networking equipment.
| daedrdev wrote:
| There are plenty of things where mil spec is extremely strict
| and high quality. They wont be sold to consumers as they are
| priced accordingly
| esseph wrote:
| A company can not sell a product to consumers cheaper than
| it can sell to the federal government, and the federal
| government contract normally comes first. A lot of the
| stuff you can buy (minus restricted items), it'll just cost
| you.
| bluGill wrote:
| They can't sell the same thing but they can sell
| something slightly different. put a different type of
| paint on it and you can sell for different prices.
| kakwa_ wrote:
| Well, not mass produced enough.
|
| Common mass produced products manufacturers have incentives
| to not mess-up too badly: recalls or warranties on such
| scales are a nightmare.
|
| With military contracts, its a paid maintenance opportunity.
| mjanx123 wrote:
| > Military grade: mass produced by the lowest bidder
|
| This
|
| In the military, military grade is a synonym for crap
| somat wrote:
| Military-grade just means it has a spec, now, I will admit
| having a spec is nice, very nice. but in general it says little
| about the actual quality of the item. And if the spec can't be
| found or there is no spec. Probably best to stay away, in those
| cases they are not even selling you the snake oil but the sound
| of it sloshing in the bottle.
| culi wrote:
| There is no legal requirement for it to refer to MIL-SPEC.
| More often than not it is just pure marketing without any
| actual spec tied to it
| hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
| Military grade afaict just implies the military 'could' use
| it, by that definition almost any company sells military
| grade products or services, except companies who explicitly
| would not sell to the military.
| bluGill wrote:
| the military often writes a spec and then refuses to buy
| anything that doesn't meet it. Most soldiers are not
| going to walmart to get supplies - even f walmart sells
| that type of thing.
| hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
| I'm not talking about what the military could or would
| use, I'm talking about what it takes for something to be
| called military grade.
| colechristensen wrote:
| "military grade" isn't a protected phrase. As a consumer
| you might be able to sue them if the thing breaks and
| they can't prove that phrase meant anything? But
| doubtful.
|
| Claiming to conform to a more specific product or process
| standard would be more specific fraud.
|
| But in general though "military grade" is a red flag for
| shitty marketing.
|
| Example: pop tarts are military grade! [1]
|
| Though their commercial packaging is likely not.
|
| https://www.dla.mil/Portals/104/Documents/TroopSupport/Su
| bsi...
| JohnFen wrote:
| In the US, "military grade" is like "natural". There is
| no legally enforced meaning, so it means whatever the
| manufacturer says it means. Sometimes that's something
| real and of some value, but the majority of the time it's
| just a meaningless marketing buzzword.
| deadbabe wrote:
| Original Gameboys are military grade, and even in the
| gulf war when they were used, there was one that survived
| being melted.
| normie3000 wrote:
| Used for what?
| cweagans wrote:
| If you had one, you could also buy games in the form of
| "cartridges". Putting one of those cartridges into the
| gameboy would let you play the game for as long as the
| batteries held out.
| OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote:
| Yeah if you see something labelling itself "MIL-SPEC",
| that's grade A snake oil bullshit.
|
| That said military spec stuff is actually generally a good
| sign that something is of higher quality than random off
| the shelf garbage but only if you know there's a specific
| spec you want it to work with. And most of the time you
| aren't even necessarily looking for a MIL-STD (standard)
| but rather a MIL-PRF (performance rating/spec).
|
| So like if something is "MIL-SPEC" run. But if you see say
| a spool of fiber that is "MIL-STD-1678 compliant" and more
| importantly "MIL-PRF-49291 compliant" and "MIL-PRF-85054
| compliant", that's probably a really good sign that it'll
| do its job. The former PRF documenting perf requirements
| for the fiber itself and the latter PRF the
| cabling/sheath's corrosion and deterioration resistance.
|
| It's the military so odds are it'll probably cost extra for
| that and it'll still kinda suck but it'll suck in exactly
| the way they promised.
| throw0101c wrote:
| TIL:
|
| * https://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Warfare-Centers/NSWC-
| Dahlgr...
|
| * https://landandmaritimeapps.dla.mil/programs/MilSpec/Li
| stDoc...
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Anything with "Marine" in its title, is usually 5X more
| expensive, but worth it.
|
| Nothing sucks more than having the engine crap out, 150Km
| offshore, because your fuel injection system got
| corroded.
| pixl97 wrote:
| Hell, anything even close to salt water is apt to get
| ate. What's funny is you'll see people say they want to
| retire and get a beach house. No. You. Don't. Blowing
| sand is hard on stuff, getting in gears and moving parts.
| But the salt, the salt is like some alien monster that
| just dissolves things that flat landers would never
| expect. Get the smallest amount of saltwater flooding in
| a closet with equipment and things start to corrode away
| like it's an alien acid world.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Exactly. It's a very successful marketing play on MIL-SPEC:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Military_Standar...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_grade
| donw wrote:
| "Military-grade" has a very specific meaning: it's at least 10x
| overpriced and painted black.
| ekropotin wrote:
| Why black? Shouldn't it be camouflage?
| reactordev wrote:
| Drop it in some mud
| addaon wrote:
| No, that would be "tactical."
| mrexroad wrote:
| I personally look for the 1,000x overpriced space marine spec
| so I can get it in white.
| chneu wrote:
| Basically same with any company with "Patriot" or "Veteran" in
| the name.
|
| It's just a weak pander to people's weak egos. Freedumb, if you
| will.
| dismalpedigree wrote:
| Tactical everything!
| zeristor wrote:
| I'm waiting for "Titanium Sourdough" optical fibres myself.
| harvey9 wrote:
| Well those materials are verifiable at least.
| colechristensen wrote:
| My favorite are "titanium" products which are just
| electroplated with a layer of titanium a few atoms thick.
| mlrtime wrote:
| Not really if it is owned by Veterans. There are many veteran
| owned businesses and I see nothing wrong with it.
| Forgeties79 wrote:
| I don't disagree but it's not hard to understand why people
| think "military grade" means it's better. "Military grade"
| communicates tough/durable/stress tested to a lot of people.
| Veteran/patriot isn't an indicator of build quality, even if
| it is also pandering to a certain sensibility.
| russdill wrote:
| For many products it just means it's a small run from a
| group that may not have a lot of domain experience using
| materials and methods that will make the end product appear
| superior to buyers.
| Forgeties79 wrote:
| Totally understand that, I'm just talking about the
| difference between "patriot/veteran" and "military grade"
| to the average person. The latter heavily implies
| "quality build" while also appealing to people (mostly
| dudes) who want that sort of label for whatever reason,
| while the former is purely about values and has no
| implications as far as quality is concerned.
| iso1631 wrote:
| America is a country which thinks buying cheap tat from China
| with American Flags on is patriotic
| oliyoung wrote:
| What if it's Military Grade Snake Oil?
| colechristensen wrote:
| Someone should legit retry actually selling oil made of
| snakes as a miracle solution to some modern problem.
| ErroneousBosh wrote:
| If you buy a commercial product labelled "military grade", you
| are also buying snake oil.
|
| "Military grade" is generally shit. It's built down to a price,
| manufactured the cheapest possible way, so they can get the
| lowest possible tender submitted. Bonus prize if the
| manufacturer is owned by either someone already in government,
| or with close ties to someone in government.
|
| The only "military grade" devices I own are some woefully
| unsuccessful radios, which failed in the market because they
| were actually good - easy to use, reliable, and easy to repair
| - which made them about 5% more expensive than the cheapest
| option which was made by a company part-owned by the government
| and part-owned by someone who donates heavily to the
| Conservatives.
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| But shitload of vendors won't bother and just sell you a
| "military grade" or, even in non-english speaking countriess,
| say a "MIL-SPEC Daniel Defense AR-15". They won't list every
| spec in detail. And they make good AR-15s (but not cheap).
|
| Anyone who thinks the triggers listed as MIL-SPEC from, say,
| Geissele here:
|
| https://geissele.com/triggers.html
|
| aren't totally fine is out of his mind. They're amazing
| triggers, widely used and loved.
|
| And they don't say which specs its passing (at least not on the
| main page): it's just MIL-SPEC.
|
| As a sidenote my very best laptop passes
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL-STD-810 but most people will
| just say it's "military grade" or "MIL-SPEC".
|
| Guess what? Its screen never broke overnight like the one of my
| MacBook M1 Air did (the infamous "bendgate").
|
| I can bend my LG Gram's screen and it's keeps working fine. I
| can let it drop. Friend who sold it to me stepped on it when he
| woke up once.
|
| There's a very big difference between saying: _" There are
| shady vendors"_ and saying _" Military specs do not exists and
| it's impossible for consumers to buy items passing military
| specifications"_.
|
| Yes, there are dishonest vendors.
|
| Yes, military specs do exist.
|
| And, yes, it's possible for consumers to buy products passing
| (and even surpassing) actual military specs.
| iso1631 wrote:
| > incredibly over priced snake oil.
|
| Military grade snake oil?
|
| When I see "military grade" I assume overpriced $30,000 hammer
| misnome wrote:
| FS will literally sell you heavy-duty Armored (e.g.
| thicker/stronger sheath) cable and the packet it comes in will
| be labelled "military grade". That's literally your scenario.
|
| Is one supposed to send it back for a refund and order the much
| thinner, less-durable cable? Or is perhaps the landscape not as
| black-and-white as your "this is automatically snake-oil"?
| yumraj wrote:
| There are even military grade phone cases, whatever that means.
| dlcarrier wrote:
| There are some ratings, like semiconductor temperature ratings,
| with labels that include "military", (e.g. manufacturers may
| name their products, from the narrowest to widest operating
| temperatures, with something like: commercial, industrial,
| automotive, military) and "military" would indicate a better
| product.
|
| On the other hand, when a product is designed and manufactured
| to sell to a military, it's going to be expensive, and that
| extra cost isn't going to quality or capability, it's going to
| compliance. You're more than likely paying extra to get
| something using some old and outdated technology, that includes
| paperwork to prove that it's only built using the approved old
| and outdated technology.
| Bedlow wrote:
| Is it a humidity problem? in our climate in the Med all kinds of
| plastic, pu and rubberised materials will just start cracking and
| flaking after a year or two.
| rhplus wrote:
| About page on OPs blog says Singapore, so yeah.
| userbinator wrote:
| PU is especially vulnerable to degradation via hydrolysis.
| rhplus wrote:
| Buried under cement/concrete. A good reminder of the benefits of
| planning to install some conduit.
| dbetteridge wrote:
| Came to the thread to see if anyone else had mentioned conduit.
|
| It's cheap as chips and saves you a lot of future brick cutting
| or concrete breaking
| alienchow wrote:
| I do have PVC conduits under the flooring. You can see the
| photos here: https://alienchow.dev/post/homelab1/
|
| In theory I can pull a new cable through. But practically it
| might be tough due to the number of bends (shelter -> wall ->
| vent -> ceiling -> wall -> floor -> room). In the worst case
| scenario I can give it a try, but it's probably going to
| destroy the new fibre cable when I pull it through. For now
| the connection still works, so I am hoping it doesn't get to
| the point where I have to give that a try.
| dbetteridge wrote:
| Fair enough! I had a cursory search in the post for mention
| of conduit and couldn't see anything obvious so wasn't
| sure.
|
| AFAIK fibre cable should be pretty flexible, though not a
| massive fan of tension.
|
| From memory bends shouldn't be less than 5cm radius or
| thereabouts so it depends on your conduit size!
|
| Nice post btw, appreciate the detailed planning involved.
| hvb2 wrote:
| I've seen dummy wires being put in when the conduit goes
| in.
|
| Say initially you need 2 wires from A to B. That probably
| means there's plenty of room left. So you just put 4 more
| other wires in there. When the time comes you need to pull
| a new one, you pull in the new by pulling out the old
| duk3luk3 wrote:
| you can always try the plastic bag + vacuum cleaner trick -
| take a thin flexible rope, tie it to a small plastic bag,
| stuff the small plastic bag into the conduit, use a vacuum
| cleaner at the other end to suck the plastic bag & rope
| through. You can then use the rope to pull through new
| cable. If you make the rope twice the length of the
| conduit, you can keep it in there indefinitely to pull
| through new cable whenever you want.
| barryvan wrote:
| This is an unreasonably effective way of running cables.
| The first time I used it it felt like magic with how
| quick and painless it was.
| oakwhiz wrote:
| Bends ideally need pull boxes, but given the lack of pull
| boxes, you might be able to use fish tape where where fish
| rods / glow rods don't work, if you cannot get a pullstring
| / pull cable going.
| angry_octet wrote:
| That's why they invented cable lube. That number of turns
| is no obstacle, even with existing cables. But you should
| also have a pull cord spool.
| sgarland wrote:
| To anyone reading this and assuming it applies equally to
| electrical conduit, it does not, which is why the NEC
| specs a maximum of four 90 degree bends between pull
| points. You could probably manage five, as was described,
| but it is technically disallowed (again, for electrical
| wiring - the NEC doesn't care about networking).
| glitchc wrote:
| The article mentions PVC trunking, which I take to mean
| conduit.
| danw1979 wrote:
| Then why the drama in the article ? Just pull another one
| through.
| ta988 wrote:
| and always install extra guide wire
| defrost wrote:
| > A main component of why I was in sheer horror was the fact that
| I had stupidly buried all of these cables under my cement
| flooring in PVC trunking from my shelter to all of the rooms in
| the flat.
|
| This I don't quite get .. as I understand it "PVC trunking" is a
| type of cable channeling / ducting.
|
| I do a lot of cable and pipe layout around houses, farms,
| workshops, worksites, etc. and it's routine to use pipes /
| ducting / channels to allow other cables to be threaded through
| after or to replace bad cables.
|
| As much as cable deterioration _sucks_ it should be a relief to
| have ducting to pull good through after the bad.
| alienchow wrote:
| The electricians mentioned that in order to curve the cables
| along underneath the floor tiling they couldn't use metal
| trunking which would cause sharp angles, so they used PVC pipes
| to do curvy trunking for the fibre cables. I could
| theoretically pull a new cable through by ripping out the wall
| outlet if this cable actually fails. You can see it in my
| earlier homelab post. But due to the length of the trunking and
| the number of bends, I'm not too sure if I can safely drag a
| new fibre cable through.
|
| But yeah, maybe it's not that bad after all. I hope it won't
| get to that point.
| defrost wrote:
| I feel for you & yeah, fingers crossed :-)
|
| One of my love / hates is Australian parrots and cockatoos -
| fantastic birds, noisy as hell - and they can rip out and
| shred unprotected wiring from rural camera and sensor systems
| like winged can openers.
| fc417fc802 wrote:
| > due to the length of the trunking and the number of bends,
| I'm not too sure if I can safely drag a new fibre cable
| through.
|
| I saw someone commented elsewhere about a plastic bag and a
| vacuum. Another option to keep in mind is a lubricant
| intended specifically for the task of pulling cable through a
| conduit.
| ErroneousBosh wrote:
| In the olden days, when things like TVs and VCRs had cabinets
| made from polystyrene and PVC-jacketed power cables, you'd
| often find that if something had been put away with the mains
| lead coiled up on top, it then left a "scar" on the case. This
| is because the plasticiser in the PVC jacket attacked the
| polystyrene, leaving the mains lead fragile and brittle and a
| nasty gooey mess on the case that you couldn't fix.
|
| That's why the leads are wrapped in a polythene bag.
|
| When people started using polystyrene sheet insulation in
| houses (thankfully they no longer do this!) the cables running
| inside the walls were affected in the same way, with the PVC
| insulation rotting off as the plasticiser leached out and
| attacked the polystyrene. Of course there you had the added joy
| of having a potential electrical fire with a source of just-
| about-inextinguishable fuel, the polystyrene foam made of fuel
| and air.
|
| I wonder if something similar has happened here, something's
| gotten onto the fibre jackets and pulled the plasticiser out?
| jandrese wrote:
| Looking at the pictures it looks like the fiber itself might be
| inside of that spiral metal conduit in the middle and the outside
| is just abrasion protection. There are way too many strands for
| that outside bit to be the fiber. It's obviously bad that the
| outside plastic disintegrated, but it looks like the buried
| cables might be fine.
|
| I have a similar problem on my car where the 12v wiring is
| disintegrating like this because the manufacturer tried to switch
| to a more environmentally friendly wiring. Now the wire jackets
| turn to dust at the slightest touch or if they vibrate too much.
| I'm forever tracking down intermittent shorts in the wiring
| harness.
| Infernal wrote:
| Your car wouldn't happen to be a Volvo would it?
| jandrese wrote:
| Mini Cooper. From what I've heard it's a BMW thing.
| chaboud wrote:
| BMW and Toyota have famously used bio-derived insulation
| reported to be like catnip for rodents.
|
| The bio-oil plasticizers also migrate out more quickly in
| thermal cycling than the old dead dinosaurs approach.
| Hilariously, when I asked my mechanic about getting an M5,
| he laughed and explained that the radiator components are
| known to turn brittle and crack after 5-6 years because of
| this.
|
| (I don't envy automotive folks. The stuff they have to deal
| with is next level.)
| mikeocool wrote:
| Last time I had to call AAA to jump my car, the guy
| opened the hood very carefully and told me he'd had three
| rats jump out of engines at him that day, presumably
| because of the "soy wires."
| userbinator wrote:
| 1990s Mercedes would be my guess.
| esseph wrote:
| The outside strands are kevlar. The fibers are inside the
| armored core often inside another jacket.
| madaxe_again wrote:
| The metal coil will hold the actual fibre itself, yes - after a
| few more layers of protection. This is what is usually called
| "armoured" cable and is suitable for suspension and direct in
| ground. Dunno why he's using it indoors.
|
| Honestly, this writeup is... weird? Dude doesn't know you can
| terminate fibre at home with like $50 of gear?
|
| I had the fucking fox attack a freshly laid 500 meter line,
| literally the day before I was going to stuff it in conduit and
| bury it. Didn't just break the fibre, she (I know this fox,
| well) chomped it into pieces, hauled on the exposed Kevlar,
| generally had a party.
|
| Did I despair? Did I launch a baby complete with bathwater into
| the sun?
|
| No. I bought a cleaver, some alcohol wipes, some stripping
| pliers and a whole bunch of mechanical terminators.
|
| Needn't have worried. Repaired it, outdoors, first attempt, in
| the rain, and have since buried it - no problems five months
| on.
| alienchow wrote:
| Hey actually I didn't know! It's my very first time dealing
| with fibre networking so I just maxed out the supposed
| durability specs. I figured I'd rather go overkill than
| regret not having done so. Ironic I know.
|
| Unfortunately I can't easily dig the cable out and bury it
| again in this case. I'll have to figure out how to pull a new
| cable using the existing cable through the PVC conduits as
| the cable shares a larger conduit with multiple other fibre
| and Ethernet cables. The whole project was orchestrated
| remotely in a different timezone with me giving the
| electricians instructions over WhatsApp photos and audio
| recordings, so that limited what I could realistically
| control onsite back then. Often the contractors would proceed
| with a do first ask questions later approach while I was
| still asleep. The networking project was holding up the
| entire home renovation so everything was learnt and planned
| in a short amount of time.
|
| AFAIK fibre splicing and terminating tools are very
| expensive. Do point me in the right direction for the $50
| tools and I could go get some and DIY.
| adinisom wrote:
| If you want to pull another cable:
|
| - secure a string to the old cable
|
| - pull the cable out the other end, pulling the string
| through
|
| - secure the string to the new cable
|
| - pull the string out the other end, pulling the new cable
| into position
| EvanAnderson wrote:
| Pull a string alongside the new cable, too, and tie it
| off on both ends. Always leave a pull string in the
| conduit.
| rovr138 wrote:
| > a string
|
| At this point, multiple. Just in case.
| alexfoo wrote:
| You forgot to also tie another piece of string to the new
| cable so that you pull the new cable AND this other bit
| of string through.
|
| This gives you a piece of string in the conduit run to be
| able to pull through the next thing days/weeks/years
| later.
| jaeckel wrote:
| > [...] a string [...]
|
| Does someone have a recommendation for a specific
| material the string should be made of?
| upofadown wrote:
| Back in my day the local telephone company used waxed
| lacing cable for that sort of thing[1]. These days it
| seems that polypropylene string is popular (search on
| "conduit pull string").
|
| You basically want something that is slippery and will
| tend to not get stuck. I have used Dacron fishing line,
| but that is mostly because I had a bunch of it laying
| around.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_lacing
| relaxing wrote:
| They also make bottles of cable pulling lubricant for
| this purpose.
| sgarland wrote:
| AKA boy butter [0].
|
| 0: http://www.electricalslang.com/Slang/boy%20butter
| brianwawok wrote:
| The sell pulling string in the electrical section of the
| hardware store.
| fried-gluttony wrote:
| Excuse me to hijack this comment adinisom.
|
| I wanted to reach you regarding your comment here:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44547866 Would you
| be willing to maybe elaborate on the problems caused -
| I've planned to adopt Miro Sameks for an application? DM
| me via my about me, if interested. Would be very
| thankful.
| Sesse__ wrote:
| > AFAIK fibre splicing and terminating tools are very
| expensive.
|
| They're more like $600 expensive than $6000 expensive these
| days. For very low budget, you could go with a mechanical
| (aerobic) splice; it's more loss, less robust and takes up
| more space, but doesn't require a fusion splicer.
| ErroneousBosh wrote:
| Yes, the whole thing is built like bike brake cables, with a
| spirally metal support core, the goodies up the inside, and
| then a nylon braid and PVC jacket over the top.
|
| I have issues with the PVC-jacketed cables under the bonnet of
| my nearly-30-year-old Landrover, where the plasticiser has been
| baked out of the insulation and they've gone brittle. Worst
| affected are the wires to the fuel injectors and the lambda
| sensors, presumably because the former are at the top of the
| engine and get reflected heat off the bonnet, and the latter
| because they're near the literally red-hot exhaust downpipes.
|
| That's okay for an old vehicle that you'd expect to repair,
| though.
|
| I've seen the same problem in three-year-old Toyotas, and that
| is Just Not On.
| kev009 wrote:
| There are very survivable fiber cables designed for stage and A/V
| setups for instance, and even "real" military grade ones. But the
| common thin LZSH stuff is surprisingly resilient in my
| experience, so long as it didn't kink the OP would probably have
| been fine with a "standard" cable. In any case I would always try
| to place fiber in a place where it can be re-pulled.. conduit,
| tray, or a plenum.
|
| I bought a big spool of 6 strand Corning stuff a long time ago
| for various projects, the cost and diameter don't increase much
| to add some protection lines even if you never imagine using them
| they can save you a re-pull if you bugger something up in
| construction.
| bananadonkey wrote:
| The contractors were probably dubious of that resiliency given
| their lack of experience. I recently ran fibre in my house and
| have to say I was pleasantly surprised that fiber patch cables
| (unarmored) can survive a good pull through a duct.
| madaxe_again wrote:
| They can survive a 500m pull (in 100m stages, or the friction
| is too high) in mud and rain, through active water line.
|
| Honestly, fibre, even unarmoured with just a standard Kevlar
| & HDPE sleeve is hardy stuff. When I first started mucking
| around with it a few years ago I was like "don't breathe on
| it too hard", now I'm like "tie the fibre in a knot on the
| bullbar and pull it with the truck".
| Sesse__ wrote:
| > Honestly, fibre, even unarmoured with just a standard
| Kevlar & HDPE sleeve is hardy stuff.
|
| To be fair, it also got a lot better in the last 20-30
| years. In particular, we now have bend-insensitive fiber
| for the last mile (G.657.A1/G.657.A2) and in general, we
| just figured out how to make it more robust.
| madaxe_again wrote:
| You can kink the shit out of fibre and it's fine. Like, I've
| accidentally managed ~15mm diameter loops while pulling and
| then proceeded to yank on them. The Kevlar takes the brunt.
| Only time I broke a fibre was when it was me and two other guys
| pulling on it as hard as possible - and instead of moving it
| went "ping".
| userbinator wrote:
| The link to the product says "TPU outer jacket". That's
| thermoplastic polyurethane, which is well known for degrading via
| hydrolysis:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyurethane#Hydrolysis_and_bi...
|
| ...so it is a bit amusing to see "TPU Jacket Features Water,
| Abrasion Resistance" in the product description. PVC or PE would
| be far better and more common.
| alienchow wrote:
| ... Shucks. I should really have scrutinised the materials.
| Sesse__ wrote:
| > PVC or PE would be far better and more common.
|
| Be aware, depending on where you live and where the cable goes,
| PVC and HDPE outer jackets may not be allowed due to fire
| safety issues. But yes, neither of those are prone to the same
| degradation over time, so in many cases they will be a good
| choice.
| jmward01 wrote:
| Anyone in the US military that has bought 'military grade' Bates
| shoes and pulled them out of a locker after a year just to see
| the soles disintegrate can likely tell you the value of 'military
| grade'.
| askvictor wrote:
| Shoes need to be used, or the rubber and/or glue holding the
| sole on will deteriorate.
| zdragnar wrote:
| There's gotta be more to it than that. I've got a pair of
| dress shoes I wear maybe thee times a year at most, and I've
| had them for somewhere between ten and fifteen years, perhaps
| longer.
|
| The soles (rubber because winter) are in perfect condition,
| and the leather isn't too bad either, though I've not really
| conditioned it enough and it's starting to show.
| gleenn wrote:
| Both can be true. I have specifically heard that shoe glue
| needs to be repeatedly compressed to be maintained or it
| will disintegrate. Anecdotally as well, I had a pair of
| quality, lightly used, but old, hiking boots that had the
| sole completely separate after a day of heavy use. The
| runber sole completely detached from the leather shell
| inner shoe. The crazy thing was that BOTH boots failed
| within 20 minutes of each other.
| pixl97 wrote:
| Environmental factors can be very picky on what gets
| attacked and what doesn't.
|
| In one of the oddest losses of a pair of shoes, I had fire
| ants break into my closet and eat the foam rubber out of
| one pair of extra lite running shoes. Turned the damned
| things to swiss cheese. Nothing else was messed with. They
| didn't want leather or rubber, just whatever those shoes
| were made of.
| lostlogin wrote:
| And because they are military grade they need to be used for
| some military stuff.
| ekropotin wrote:
| > military grade cable
|
| Bruh
| bradgessler wrote:
| What's the advantage of using fiber optics for home networking
| over 10Gbe Ethernet?
| clhodapp wrote:
| They get less hot (especially the network adapters on the ends
| of them), can go a lot further, can be a lot denser (including
| being able to carry things other than Ethernet in the same
| bundle), and are a lot more future-proof (unless the cable
| jacket literally crumbles at the slightest movement in a few
| years).
| reactordev wrote:
| Server-grade fiber optics can get to terrabit/sec speeds. In
| other words, ludicrous speed.
|
| (He's gone, plaid!)
| ggm wrote:
| Many people believe running fibre between buildings, even in
| ducts, is safer than running copper because you get opto-
| isolation from lightning.
|
| The second thing is that domestic buildings usually do not come
| with a consistent ground plane. I worked in a 1960s build
| purpose made for mainframes and we had ~48v floating between
| racks at either end of the building and had to do a shitload of
| work to reground the building, in the 90s (-we were
| decommissioning an IBM 3033 and deploying a secondhand cray1)
| the point being somehow, God knows how, prior rs232 serial
| wiring didn't care and the ground plane for the mainframe was
| fine at the time. Pre Ethernet this stuff maybe just passed
| code.
|
| I suspect people who build their own home to some spec acquire
| these theories. Data comms? Not much reason tbh unless you're
| pushing a lot more data than normal.
| amluto wrote:
| > The second thing is that domestic buildings usually do not
| come with a consistent ground plane.
|
| Ordinary _unshielded_ copper Ethernet doesn't care: it's
| transformer-isolated at both ends. _Shielded_ cable may
| object to carrying any substantial amount of current through
| the shield.
|
| Anyway, there are a handful of good reasons to use fiber:
|
| - Length. Copper is specced for 100m. Panduit will sell fancy
| copper cable that they pinky-swear works for Ethernet at
| 150m. Single mode fiber will work at silly long distances.
|
| - High bandwidth. Copper will do 10Gbps. High speed specs
| exist, but there is approximately zero commercial
| availability of anything beyond 10G using copper at any
| appreciable distance. Fiber has no such problems.
|
| IMO if you are running fiber anywhere that makes it awkward
| to replace (i.e. not just within a single room), use single
| mode. Multimode fiber has gone through ~5 revisions over the
| last few decades, and the earlier ones have very unimpressive
| bandwidth capabilities at any reasonable distance. Even the
| latest version, where truly heroic engineering has gone into
| reducing modal dispersion, relies on fancy multistrand cables
| for the faster Ethernet speeds. Single-mode fiber, meanwhile,
| continues to work very well and supports truly huge bandwidth
| at rather long distances, and even decades-old fiber supports
| the latest standards. And the transceivers for single-mode
| fiber are no longer much more expensive than multimode
| transceivers.
| amluto wrote:
| Late edit: one exception is A/V. Sometimes you want fiber
| for applications other than networking. There are A/V
| applications for fiber, for example. If you need this, use
| what the thing you're using the fiber for requires, and
| consider putting it in conduit. If your application calls
| for MMF, consider using the highest grade you can get at a
| reasonable price, which is probably OM4.
|
| Also, preterminated fiber is a thing. While it's not _that_
| hard to terminate MMF, it's still easier and more reliable
| to buy preterminated fiber. SMF terminations are apparently
| much more sensitive to being done perfectly, and buying
| preterminated fiber is wise. (I've never personally
| terminated any fiber, but I have installed and connected
| fiber, and it's delightful to just plug it in.)
| alienchow wrote:
| It's one of those "just because" moments. The idea was to
| future proof my home infra for a 25G NAS connection. Most
| ethernet connections tap out at 10G. While theoretically
| speaking Cat 8 cables can do 40G, hardware support for full 40G
| Cat 8 NICs is rare. Fibre is very very flexible with its
| potential bandwidth and SFP28 transceivers are relatively
| affordable (if you don't do what I did by using SMF. Home
| networks should only use MMF if the property isn't a mansion.)
| sschueller wrote:
| I still prefer SMF over MMF. It also allows me to "move"
| where the city fiber comes in and patch it to another
| location without any active hardware. So I can for example
| move my router into another room.
|
| I ran SMF and have no regrets.
| https://sschueller.github.io/posts/wiring-a-home-with-fiber/
| aftbit wrote:
| I'd say the opposite - any fibre in a wall should probably be
| single-mode fibre (SMF), simply for future proofing. Single
| mode optics aren't much more expensive and single mode fibre
| hasn't changed nearly as many times as multi-mode. You can
| run 25G over the same SMF that once ran 1G - not so with MMF.
| mdswanson wrote:
| Also much lower power and heat.
| 20after4 wrote:
| This is the most compelling reason (unless you really need
| the range of fiber) - 10GbE can be really power hungry. Each
| 10G switch port that is in use adds something like 1-5 watts
| to the power budget. 1 watt is reasonable but most switch
| hardware isn't nearly that efficient. That could mean 10
| watts for every single link if you're using 5 watts at each
| end. Multiply that by several links and it starts to add up
| really quickly.
| tbrownaw wrote:
| I kinda want some just 'cause it's cool, with the only problem
| being that I haven't been able to find an excuse to justify (to
| myself) needing it.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| For me, it was for a nearly 100ft run that try as I may to get
| a good termination, I'd often find my Mac Studio and Ubiquiti
| EdgeSwitch struggle to negotiate at more than 5gbps. So I got a
| smaller switch upstairs, ran 10GbE to it, approximately 10ft,
| and then ran OM-3 fiber for the 100ft up into my attic, across
| my house and down into the garage. Rock solid at 10 Gbps.
| ericd wrote:
| 10GbE rj45 (normal ethernet jack) spf modules tend to burn
| power and get extremely hot, like to the point of burning you
| if you touch it - the manual for my switch said to leave
| adjacent ports unoccupied if using one of those. The fiber ones
| run cool to the touch.
|
| Also, not needing to rerun any cabling if we want to bump up
| speeds in the future, you just change the laser module on
| either end. These should be good to >100x current speeds. Not
| the case with copper.
| crote wrote:
| "10GBASE-T runs hot" is only half true.
|
| The real problem here is that 10GBASE-T is _ancient_. The
| spec dates back to 2006! And worst of all: it only saw
| lukewarm adoption by the datacenter industry, so there hasn
| 't really been a reason for manufacturers to refresh their
| lineups. This means that SFP+ transceiver you buy in 2026
| might be using chips manufactured using a 20-year-old node.
| No wonder it is running hot!
|
| 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T are essentially using the same
| technology, but you don't hear anyone complaining about it
| running hot: hardware for this only recently started to
| become available due to consumer demand, so any hardware for
| that is being manufactured using more modern technology,
| which means a lower power use.
|
| It's still going to consume more power than fiber, but a
| modern 10GBASE-T SFP+ transceiver should not be _burning_
| hot.
| userbinator wrote:
| Realtek recently made a new 10GBASE-T NIC that consumes
| much less power:
|
| https://www.servethehome.com/cheap-10gbe-realtek-
| rtl8127-nic...
| ericd wrote:
| Ah, thanks! That helps explain why it seemed like a sort of
| poorly executed/ill conceived product. Any good brands you
| know of? I think I just got something random from FS.com or
| maybe even Amazon.
| bob1029 wrote:
| Fiber runs cool because it's operating well within the
| physical capacity of the channel. Copper needs an incredibly
| high signal to noise ratio to overcome the limitations of its
| medium. Copper will consume 5-10x more power than fiber for
| the same # of bits transmitted.
| toast0 wrote:
| If they're using spf+, it's almost certainly ethernet on the
| fiber. Do you mean, why not use copper twisted pair?
|
| Ethernet runs on many mediums, as well as over the ether.
| fulafel wrote:
| Ethernet can be run over copper or fiber cabling, it's not an
| alternative to fiber networking. Assuming you meant what's the
| advantage of fiber over copper: you can use faster speeds,
| longer distances less power on fiber plus it's not electrically
| coupled.
|
| (speeds: 100 gig today, but faster speeds are coming.)
| crote wrote:
| 10G is looking to be the end for twisted-pair copper.
|
| 25GBASE-T and 40GBASE-T were standardized 10 years ago, but
| there are still basically zero products available with support
| for it. The datacenter market just wasn't interested and chose
| to use fiber and DAC instead. Worst of all: it requires Cat8
| cables and is limited to 30 meters. This means it can't reuse
| existing cabling, and doesn't have the reach for many home
| applications - OPs blog post mentions the longest run in their
| apartment being 55 meters.
|
| Combine that with the general death of wired networking for
| home & office use, and it is extremely unlikely the market of
| hardcore tech enthusiasts is big enough to warrant massive
| investments into developing some kind of 25G-over-Cat6-for-100m
| standard.
|
| 10G is pretty much the standard for high-end gear these days.
| This means any kind of future-proof setup needs to be prepared
| for a future upgrade to a fiber-based technology.
| __turbobrew__ wrote:
| For me, I wanted my networking to be future proof over the next
| 25 years if Im going to be putting all that work in to wire up
| the house. My ISP already offers 5Gb/s upstream and will most
| likely offer 10Gb/s in the coming years.
| rconti wrote:
| I'm kind of going the opposite way. I've got 10gig internet,
| and I planned on running fiber for future-proofing in our
| remodel, but the past 20 years has taught me that fiber's day
| is coming "real soon like now" for a long time... and then
| copper keeps up because everyone uses it.
| nevi-me wrote:
| I sympathise with burying cables that you think are for life,
| only to need to replace them later.
|
| We ran fibre cables in the ceiling when constructing our house. I
| requested the electrician to shield the cables with some tubing,
| but he probably thought I was being extreme. We have 9 cables, 2
| of them don't work, likely from being bent by mistake or
| something.
|
| The wiring is intermixed with electrical and ethernet (for
| cameras) cables, making the process a bit tricky. At least for us
| we might only have to cut the ceiling boards in a few places to
| help guide the replacement cables.
| madaxe_again wrote:
| 9/10 times the problem is at the terminator - they can get
| yanked out of position if they are pulled rather than the
| sleeve. Snip off the pulled end of the suspect line with Kevlar
| shears and shine an OFF down the other end - and you'll
| probably see laser. It's then a surprisingly simple job to re-
| terminate with mechanical connectors.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| This is why you always bury a rugged, big diameter tube, and run
| the cables inside of that.
| timzaman wrote:
| Pvc also dries out and cracks. But yes.
| sfeng wrote:
| If it's underground (meaning not in the sun) the lifespan of
| PVC is 100+ years. It seems unlikely it will be his problem
| if it ever cracks.
| fulafel wrote:
| PVC used in water pipes had some surprises, the lifespan
| there turned out to be less than optimistically expected
| when PVC pipes came to the market. 100 years might be hard
| to test for...
| isoprophlex wrote:
| You can always splurge on some military grade pvc conduits
| :^)
| gleenn wrote:
| My friend also always runs multiple string lines through during
| construction. Later if a wire breaks or you want an additional
| cable or upgrade, you attach your new wire to a string and pull
| the string from the other end all the way through. If they had
| done this, they could have simply dragged a new fiber optic
| cable through.
| aarmot wrote:
| You can pull the wire and second string together so you have
| always a single string in conduit.
| overtone1000 wrote:
| Upvote for posting about a failure. We should all be more vocal
| about our failures.
| jijijijij wrote:
| Coiled up high-speed fiber optic cables suffer data-abrasion due
| to centrifugal forces. Either reduce data speed or arrange those
| cables in straight lines with space-grade angle connectors.
| lexicality wrote:
| Worse still, the loop-de-loops can make your packets dizzy
| which is an unpleasant experience for anyone doing a video call
| with you and makes games such as VR chat completely untenable.
| fluoridation wrote:
| It does highly improve the QoS if you stream Sonic gameplay.
| jijijijij wrote:
| Yes! Although looping dizziness happens in copper, too.
|
| If you ever experience this, but can't uncoil the
| transmission cables, a workaround is to spin your desk chair
| in the opposite direction of data flow, at about the speed of
| light (for the respective cable medium). This temporary
| cancels out the effects of ethernet frame looping induced
| dizziness. Alternatively, you can treat any sickness
| symptomatically by chewing on a piece of ginger. The latter
| also helps with aforementioned data-abrasion in fiber optic
| cables through means not fully understood, yet.
| adastra22 wrote:
| FYI "military grade" is code for "cheapest bidder."
| subscribed wrote:
| So what should I buy, "telco"?
| Animats wrote:
| Would that be this item? [1] The product description and SKU
| match.
|
| It's not clear who "FS" is. A reseller? A manufacturer? They seem
| to be in Singapore. There's no excuse for the external plastic
| sheath disintegrating. They must have formulated the plastic
| wrong. The terms specify a 30 day warranty.
|
| Here's a catalog of real mil-spec fiber optic cables.[2] This is
| overkill for home applications; you put these in a fighter jet.
|
| In between are Telecom Industry Association compliant fiber optic
| cables. That's what telcos use. There are US manufacturers with
| real plants and addresses.
|
| [1] https://www.fs.com/products/70220.html
|
| [2] https://www.glenair.com/catalogs/fiber-optics.pdf
| JoachimSchipper wrote:
| FS is almost certainly fs.com, who do sell lots of fiber stuff.
|
| I agree that less-than-milspec equipment should survive being
| installed in a home, but... this fiber didn't.
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46572962 seems to be
| relevant.
| unsnap_biceps wrote:
| FS is a US company. They are a fairly reasonable option for
| third party networking equipment. We run a ton of their SPF+
| transceivers in our racks, as they're significantly cheaper
| than OEM parts and indistinguishable in operation and we've had
| excellent support the handful of times we needed it over the
| years.
| M95D wrote:
| When you design, build or renovate your house, _always_ plan for
| future replacement of cables and pipes!
| vbernat wrote:
| From the photos, it does not look like the fibers themselves are
| damaged. You should check the error rate on both sides. If it is
| 0, the not optimal values of your speedtest are not related to
| your fiber. If it is not 0, the more likely issues are in order:
| connectors to clean (buy a cleaning pen), bend radius somewhere,
| faulty optics, then the fiber. You can also pay a professional to
| run an OTDR on your fiber. It would show where the fiber is
| degraded.
| mkj wrote:
| Fs.com are a well regarded company. The OP should contact them
| and see if there's a recall on those cables or something. Sounds
| similar to what happened with some mains power cables sold by a
| hardware store in Australia.
| nubinetwork wrote:
| I don't regard them very well personally... I bought a bunch of
| DAC cables from them, only to have them start emailing me under
| the guise of assigning me a "account manager"... I blocked
| their domain from my mail server and told them to never contact
| me again.
| sschueller wrote:
| They offer to provide you with personalized service and you
| block them? What do you do when you walk into a high end
| watch or clothing store?
|
| FS provides account managers and they are very useful if you
| are working on a project as they can guide you and help you.
| nubinetwork wrote:
| Is it too much to ask to just be able to buy things without
| being chased around by someone?
|
| I have a Newegg business account (and maybe a few more for
| other pc stores, I'd have to check), but I literally never
| have them trying to get me to buy things. /shrug
| phil21 wrote:
| fs.com sells primarily b2b. Account managers are normal
| and customary.
|
| Just decline politely. They are not a bad company in that
| regard.
|
| I have my issues with FS product itself, as it can be
| spotty sometimes in terms of compatibility and
| repeatability (e.g. getting the same optics firmware
| every time over the course of a couple years) but they
| typically handle exceptions and problems quite well. Via
| your account manager contact.
|
| Weird reason to hate a company, imo. Would be far
| different if they continued to spam you with phone
| calls/e-mails after you declined the request.
|
| Sounds like both parties dodged a bullet.
| jeffrallen wrote:
| Right, but sometimes your account manager's job is to
| manage a giant RMA as a result of their manufacturing
| department f'ing up. So while I am greatful she did a good
| job, I would have preferred to not need an account manager
| at all...
| Sesse__ wrote:
| FS.com is great for all kinds of fiber stuff... but curiously,
| nothing long-distance. I never really understood it; you can get
| a 40-channel DWDM setup (including tunable 100gig SFPs) just like
| nothing, but a drum of quite normal G24 loose tube cabling meant
| for outdoor use? Nope. You'll have to go elsewhere for that. And
| I guess that's also what happened here; the poster picked the
| best thing they had for the purpose, and it's just not that good.
|
| I've also had problems with their pigtails also being weird, by
| the way (layers separating so that automated cutters can't
| stretch the pigtail properly). It's weird when everything else is
| so good--it's as if they only care about what's going on internal
| to a data center and you never need to do a splice. :-)
| sschueller wrote:
| I can confirm the pigtails issue. They are a huge pain to strip
| for whatever reason. Even cheap ones from AliExpress work
| better.
| ZeroConcerns wrote:
| There's no link to the data sheet of the actual cable, but, yeah,
| looks like this should not have happened in such a short
| timeframe unless there's something _really_ funny going on in
| that room, like ambient temperatures above 50 degC.
|
| Another thing that should not have happened is installing the
| cable in loops in this way: any 'building' or 'underground' type
| cable needs to be of the _exact_ length required at the
| demarcation point, fastened properly to prevent movement and
| terminated on a proper patch panel (can be a one-port box-type
| thingy for small setups), from where you use regular patch cords
| to connect your equipment.
|
| (Loops are definitely _allowed_ though, but that use case is
| mostly for aerial fiber to enable repair splices, and there are
| some very specific bend-radius and strain relief requirements,
| which, again should be spelled out in the cable data sheet)
| gertrunde wrote:
| From one of the photos, the cable spec "G657A2" is visible on
| the outside - and specs listed for that indicate it's "bending
| insensitive single-mode fibre", apparently it can tolerate 10
| loops around 15mm mandrel. (Which does surprise me).
|
| But yes, agreed, a lot of "Er... why would you do it like
| that?" bits.
| ZeroConcerns wrote:
| Those 10 loops definitely only apply to the single mode fibre
| itself, not the entire assembly with armor and everything,
| because that's just... physically impossible.
|
| Cables for direct burial only like to be bent once or twice,
| and then only gently. Anything else may very well break the
| armor (whether plastic or metal), after which all bets are
| off.
|
| Still, for the outer jacket to become brittle to the extent
| described, something else is required, which may very well
| turn out to be "shoddy manufacturing"...
| alienchow wrote:
| Thanks, I really appreciate the SMEs commenting here. I'm
| learning a lot.
|
| Definitely learnt it the hard way this time. You're right that
| buried cables should be exact in length and fastened to a patch
| panel. I'll probably look into better conduit design as well
| for the next time (in 15 years?). Having shared conduits means
| I would risk damaging other cables if I tried to pull a new
| cable through.
| ZeroConcerns wrote:
| Good conduit and patch panel design is definitely key for a
| happy life. Leaving some extra space/capacity initially is
| also a good idea, especially since (unless you're covering
| truly great distances) there's not exactly a lot of
| innovation in the single mode fibre space: strands you put in
| today (even if it's 'the cheapest stuff your vendor sells
| most of', which is generally my philosophy for selecting
| cables) will still be viable a few years down the road.
|
| Sharing/in-place-repurposing conduit is not something I'd
| recommend, but if you must, leave a few dummy cables (a.k.a.
| 'pieces of string') on the initial install...
| EvanAnderson wrote:
| > Another thing that should not have happened is installing the
| cable in loops in this way: any 'building' or 'underground'
| type cable needs to be of the exact length required at the
| demarcation point...
|
| This hasn't been my experience with fiber entrance cables
| terminated by ILECs, Spectrum, and Lumen. They typically leave
| a significant service loop bound to the cable ladder or backer
| board-- usually 15-20 feet.
| ZeroConcerns wrote:
| Depends on the type of cable assembly. If it's fiber strands
| inside a soft-ish plastic jacket (and most of the cable is in
| fact in conduit), a service loop is fine, albeit a bit
| pointless for most repair scenarios. For armored cables
| (which are _significantly_ stiffer), you only do these loops
| in situations where you expect to need to replace significant
| sections (think 'getting hit by a falling tree' or
| 'particularly aggressive rodents') and you have the space.
| deno wrote:
| Both tree and rat took out my fiber so the loops are
| definitely useful. If your fiber goes through your whole
| house it's significantly less work to only have to
| reconnect one end instead of redoing the whole run.
| layla5alive wrote:
| I have a > 75ft service loop on a 48-count underground burial
| fiber from the street.
| Sesse__ wrote:
| > any 'building' or 'underground' type cable needs to be of the
| exact length required at the demarcation point, fastened
| properly to prevent movement and terminated on a proper patch
| panel (can be a one-port box-type thingy for small setups)
|
| How exact is exact? :-) I once had to reterminate some fiber
| that was cut and terminated to exact length, which means there
| was literally two centimeters from the wall to the connector. I
| literally had to squeeze the fiber splicer up against the wall
| to have a chance at splicing on new pigtails, but I had two
| mis-cuts and I was hosed. :-)
| simonjgreen wrote:
| I'd be acquiring or borrowing a fusion splicer and splice
| protectors then getting them into a fixed enclosure on the wall
| with socket outlets.
|
| It seems like wizardry when you first see it, but actually fusion
| splicing fibre is not hard at all once you've done it a few
| times.
|
| The most important part is the cleaving, always use a high
| quality cleaver.
|
| Chances are very high the fibres themselves in the cables are
| absolutely fine, they are remarkably resilient given their size.
| oakwhiz wrote:
| If it's any consolation, you can have fiber without jackets as
| long as they are cable-managed very carefully.
| borlox wrote:
| Regarding the last few sentences about the speedtest, Fibre
| doesn't degrade in a way that you get 30 to 40% line speed. DSL
| did that, fibre doesn't.
|
| Speedtests for 10G are complicated and will show low numbers
| because of all the different TCP parameters and schedulers.
| Sometimes because peering links of your ISP or the speedtest
| providers are saturated.
| mlrtime wrote:
| When I had 5Gbs fiber with a UDM I could never get it to speed
| test close to 5Gbps.
|
| My internet network would would test at theoretical limits with
| proper iperf2 settings. I tried using public iperf servers but
| wasn't successful.
| xorcist wrote:
| This looks like regular hydrolysis, same thing that happens to
| shoe soles after any number of years.
|
| I don't think it's fair to make fun of the cable specifications,
| seems to me they held up just fine despite the jacket
| disintegrating. The article doesn't mention the error rate, but I
| wouldn't be surprised if it was still zero.
| il-b wrote:
| The coils are too tight. The tension on the plastic pulled it
| apart.
| jeffrallen wrote:
| If the point of a home lab is to learn useful lessons where your
| customers don't pay for your stupidity (or more politely: your
| learning journey) then this guy's next employer is definitely
| getting their money's worth.
|
| But that reminds me of something: I spend money on hobbies, but I
| spend the absolute minimum amount of money possible on home IT
| research and learning. Fuck that noise: if my employer wants a
| lab, they can damn well pay for one.
| Havoc wrote:
| That's weird. Only place I've seen a rapid degradation of cables
| were those getting direct sunlight.
|
| The conclusion paragraph seems doubtful to me though - unlikely
| that speeds will slow down from a cables external plastic flaking
| LoganDark wrote:
| I imagine there could be some slowdown if the exact wavelength
| of the transmission also happens to come in from outside where
| the jacket is missing.
| mikelabatt wrote:
| Was there a technical reason for not using corrugated ducts in
| the concrete, maybe because it's a shelter?
| DannyBee wrote:
| I have fs.com armored cable installed for 10 years now. Different
| times and spools. It is all in perfect shape. They test all their
| cable. Something is almost certainly disintegrating your cable.
| If you have any spare old pvc pipe or something in the basement,
| hit it with a hammer and see if it is brittle (the hammer should
| bounce). If it is brittle, I would not hang out in the basement
| until you figure out what is going on.
|
| One random guess other than gases of various sorts: If you have
| the lights on a lot, it's possible you have lighting that is not
| properly uv filtered somehow.
|
| (It theoretically could be lots of heat/humidity vs certain types
| of cable jackets, but that would be obviously noticeable most of
| the time)
|
| The fiber and even the armor itself looks fine in your pictures
| and I bet the error rate is zero. Outside of bending, i can't see
| how you could damage the fiber when the armor is in perfect
| shape. That armor will unravel if you really damaged it. The
| speed thing is not how fiber works. It's hard to get marginal
| link enough to generate retries that degrade your speed by 10%.
| Most of the time either you have full speed link, no link, or so
| many errors speed is zero. The optics almost always have rx/TX
| signal strength DDM you can look at
|
| Also did you say you direct buried it in cement? If so it's not
| rated for that. Direct burial and concrete tight/safe are not the
| same thing at all, not the least of reasons being concrete is
| highly alkaline (ph12-13) when poured
| wolfi1 wrote:
| if the PVC is brittle it almost certainly lost its plasticizer,
| could be that the alkaline eroded it
| userbinator wrote:
| Unplasticised PVC, commonly used for rigid pipe, is normally
| brittle and will shatter, which is why it's not allowed for
| pneumatic systems. It doesn't crumble easily, however.
| mindcrash wrote:
| This is why should never-ever directly bury cables in the
| ground/walls/floor and ALWAYS use rigid PVC and/or flexible PVC
| tubes from site to site and pull the fiber or UTP cables through
| those tubes.
|
| As an alternative if you are networking a single location and you
| don't mind seeing some finishing profiles on the walls (or want
| something easy in a pre-existing situation) you can also drill
| somewhere along the wall and feed the cables directly down to the
| floor or up the ceiling and cover them up.
|
| But always, ALWAYS, make them easily accessible and easily
| removable.
|
| Got plenty of experience to say no cable will survive a lifetime,
| and if you experience a problem without easy access you are
| fucked.
| alienchow wrote:
| Thanks HN folks for all the comments. To clarify a bit, the
| cables are pulled through PVC conduits under the flooring before
| being buried in cement. Currently the hypotheses for why the
| cable disintegrated so quickly is hydrolysis and paint solvents.
| Singapore is extremely humid but this doesn't explain why the
| exposed cabling on the other end is still healthy and not
| crumbly.
|
| The second possibility is that I keep the leftover wall paints
| (Nippon Paint Vinilex 5000) in the same room and have noticed
| that much of the solvents have evaporated. It is possible that
| the solvents in the air might have caused the cable to fail in 3
| years. It would explain why the other ends that aren't exposed to
| the air inside the bomb shelter aren't falling apart.
|
| Some other learnings from this. Buried cabling should always be
| permanently fixed and attached to a patch panel instead of
| dangling in the open. That was the original plan but I figured it
| wouldn't be an issue. I was wrong. Always measure exact length of
| buried fibre cabling as they aren't meant to be stored in loops.
| voxlax wrote:
| Oh, sry! Your comment came after I posted mine. I had similar
| experience with a bottle of organic thinner for paints.
| nadams5755 wrote:
| next i'd take a look at the network equipment's transceiver
| signal strengths. ideally over time to see if this has
| degraded. additionally, take a look at ethernet errors,
| retransmits, etc.
|
| if you're using 25gbps/sfp28 transceivers, you probably have
| FEC. if so, you probably have both correctable and
| uncorrectable error counters to look at.
| oakwhiz wrote:
| I see telecoms make loops all the time both indoors and
| outside. The loops should be strapped together and strapped
| down though.
| pclmulqdq wrote:
| Yeah, leaving hanging loops with a gentle bend radius is very
| common as long as the loop is secured, and does not cause
| problems. Maybe something pulled on it though?
| vermilingua wrote:
| You say that the connection would be permanently severed, but
| if the fibre is run through PVC can't you pull a new run?
| Easiest way is to use the existing fibre to pull the new cables
| through.
| voxlax wrote:
| I believe, he might have stored some solvent in the vicinity of
| the cable. Anyway it won't affect the optical performance of the
| cables. It's just the loss of mechanical protection. The
| disintegrating sheathing could be repaired by shrink tubing,
| which is more convenient than by wrapping it up in tape.
| bawana wrote:
| Andromeda strain
| melchebo wrote:
| First question, bomb shelter??
|
| Next what popped in my head, "Military grade means, made by the
| lowest bidder."
| analog31 wrote:
| Something caught my attention as a musician: Coiling cables can
| leave them with a permanent twist, depending on how you do it.
| Musicians are taught an "over under" method for avoiding this
| problem. Otherwise, if a service loop is needed, it can be hung
| in a figure-eight pattern to avoid the twist.
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