[HN Gopher] I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going...
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       I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great
        
       Author : rorylawless
       Score  : 458 points
       Date   : 2026-01-10 15:26 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
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 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | djfergus wrote:
       | https://archive.is/CEsFK
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | Congratulations and welcome to the club!
       | 
       | But please, do not push to make Linux into a Windows Clone :)
        
         | RankingMember wrote:
         | I can't say I understand the prevalence of Windows-esque UI
         | theming/refits beyond short-lived novelty- are people out there
         | actually trying to make their UIs look like Windows XP and then
         | using them like that on a daily basis?
        
           | jmclnx wrote:
           | To me it is adding things that windows love to do.
           | 
           | Examples: binary log files, binary configuration, .ini files,
           | hidden options.
        
           | mrintegrity wrote:
           | I configured gnome to look like win 95/98, tried to use it
           | for a while but the novelty wore off quite fast. Weirdly the
           | mouse pointer still looks like win95 randomly in certain
           | applications, guess I didn't clean up thoroughly!
        
       | ktallett wrote:
       | I have been using Fedora comfortably as my main os on a framework
       | for the last 18 months and I have had no issues. I do just think
       | for all that I do, lab work, coding, and gaming. I also run
       | debian on mnt pocket reform and tbh I think it is OSes' like
       | Linux that allow devices like that to exist. Windows and Mac just
       | aren't options.
        
       | jna_sh wrote:
       | Moved my Framework laptop to Bluefin and my gaming desktop to
       | Bazzite early last year. Zero regrets, zero issues. I'm not new
       | to Linux by any means, I've been dabbling since a kid. But in
       | adulthood, I had given up on having Linux as my daily driver
       | because I just wanted my main computers to work, I didn't want
       | maintaining them to be a hobby. That's not been an issue with
       | Bluefin or Bazzite. I'm sure it's not for a lot of modern
       | Linuxes, but these ones I can vouch for at least!
        
         | bikelang wrote:
         | Bazzite is my first immutable distro. Idk that I would want
         | this for my dev machine - but for a gaming/general desktop
         | usage it's pretty amazing. If they exposed more of the
         | maintenance tooling and stuff like adding RPM layers via the UI
         | then I think they'd have a really compelling OS for non-
         | technical users.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | I agree, if you have a specific dev flow that is compatible
           | with the immutable OS approach, then these can be wonderful
           | dev machines, but personally I don't want to change my
           | workflow to fit the OS, I prefer the OS to fit my workflow.
           | 
           | At some point I I'm pretty confident that I will switch to an
           | immutable version of Fedora and relearn my workflow in a
           | distro box like world as I do see some real benefits to doing
           | so, but I'm not in a hurry
        
             | jna_sh wrote:
             | I expected it to be an issue but I've had surprisingly few
             | problems so far. If you're working in docker-land or can
             | use devcontainers, it just works. If you're not but your
             | stack is well supported by homebrew, also not a problem.
             | Anything else you can handle via a distrobox container,
             | where you can install from package managers to your heart's
             | content, and they have good integration with the base OS,
             | but I've had to reach for distrobox a lot less than I
             | expected.
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | Interesting, thanks! Out of curoisity would you (or
               | anyone else) mind sharing some details about which stacks
               | you work on? And have you done any GTK or linux native
               | apps?
               | 
               | I do a decent amount of GTK and occasionaly Qt, and
               | wonder if there's any extra friction for that
        
               | jna_sh wrote:
               | I've not done any native Linux app development I'm
               | afraid, I can see that being quite painful...
               | 
               | I am mostly over in web application and Python ML land.
        
           | mongrelion wrote:
           | I had the dilemma of choosing between Bazzite and CachyOS or
           | Manjaro for my workstation, which is also my gaming rig.
           | 
           | The whole immutable distro felt like a hinder for my workflow
           | (running docker containers, etc.), so that's why I went for
           | CachyOS.
        
             | jna_sh wrote:
             | I think you should take another look, especially at the
             | "Bazzite developer experience" edition: container based
             | development is pretty much what it's centred around.
             | Alternatively, Bluefin, which is much more dev focused
        
       | IgorPartola wrote:
       | Back in the days of Unity I decided to make a full switch to
       | Linux and it just worked. The UX was unfamiliar but it had a
       | cohesiveness that made sense. I use macOS for the past 10 years
       | as my main system (work stuff needs Mac-specific things) but
       | switching to a decent Linux distro would honestly feel like an
       | upgrade. Windows continues being a shitshow and I want nothing to
       | do with it.
       | 
       | What I think could really push Linux desktop forward is if
       | various PC gaming influencers started doing content on how to
       | game on Linux. Given that it is not just viable now but actively
       | sometimes better than on Windows it would make for good content
       | AND show people an alternative. And soon as AAA games start being
       | created for Linux first and run on Windows in some sort of
       | compatibility or emulation mode that will really start turning
       | the tides.
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | I think this is both the blessing and the curse of the
         | incredible work that wine and steam has done. Unless and until
         | we get the Linux packaging stuff figured out in a way that
         | developers can target Linux instead of having to target each
         | individual distro, I think the clear incentive for the vast
         | majority of gaming companies will be to target windows even if
         | they ultimately care more about Linux, because wine and proton
         | are so good and so much easier to support than each individual
         | distro natively.
         | 
         | Don't get me wrong, I rejoice when I get a native Linux game. I
         | buy nearly every native Linux game I can find that is
         | reasonably priced and sounds remotely interesting. I have a
         | couple dozen games in my GOG backlog that I haven't even tried
         | to run yet, but I bought on a sale or something because they
         | were relatively cheap and supported Linux natively. So I would
         | love a world where it was Linux first and Windows second.
        
           | IgorPartola wrote:
           | Steam runs plenty well on Linux and has for a while but I
           | guess developers might want more than one option for
           | distribution.
           | 
           | But to me it seems like in the long run emulating Linux on
           | Windows is easier than the other way around.
        
             | 0xabe wrote:
             | I wanted to setup a family gaming PC in the living room for
             | Christmas and went with CachyOS. It gave me a one click
             | gaming installation option that just worked. I'm not
             | interested in the FPS games with constant anti cheat
             | mechanisms right now. It has worked with every game I've
             | tried so far. Examples include: Crazy Machines 3, Cygni,
             | Gradius, and Bejeweled (all on Steam.)
             | 
             | I have a PC with Windows 10 and so does my dad that I'll be
             | converting to some kind of Linux soon. Windows 11 isn't
             | even an option due to the TPM chip requirement. The
             | computers are still quite good and it makes no sense to
             | abandon them. With Linux their performance will probably
             | improve.
        
         | MegaDeKay wrote:
         | > What I think could really push Linux desktop forward is if
         | various PC gaming influencers started doing content on how to
         | game on Linux. Given that it is not just viable now but
         | actively sometimes better than on Windows it would make for
         | good content AND show people an alternative.
         | 
         | Not _exactly_ what you are looking for, but Gamers Nexus at
         | 2.57M subscribers is working on Linux Gaming Benchmarks with
         | help from Wendel at Level1Techs [0]. Steve bemoans the shitshow
         | that Windows has become all the time.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovOx4_8ajZ8
        
       | peanut-walrus wrote:
       | I've been a Linux admin for 25 years but up until a few months
       | ago my personal computer has been windows (gaming desktop) or Mac
       | (laptop).
       | 
       | I decided to give desktop Linux another shot and I'm glad I did.
       | I was prepared for a lot of jankiness but figured I have enough
       | experience to fix whatever needs fixing. Surprisingly, this has
       | not been the case at all, the PC has been not only as stable as
       | Windows or Mac but also performs better and is much more
       | comfortable and intuitive to use. I never really want to "work
       | on" my personal computer, I want it to just be there for me
       | reliably. I've always had a soft spot for free software, but I
       | just couldn't justify the effort until now.
       | 
       | So I guess this is my love letter to all the devs that have made
       | the modern Linux desktop possible. Even compared to just a few
       | years ago, the difference is immense. Keep up the good work.
        
         | rsyring wrote:
         | I've been running a Linux desktop for about 13 years. There are
         | still "moments" where you have to work on it and it can be more
         | opaque than Windows/Mac. But you have the control to do what
         | you need to do, which is one huge factor for me in Linux's
         | favor.
         | 
         | I moved my immediate and mostly non-tech family to all run
         | Linux including an aging relative who needed a locked-down
         | Firefox install to keep her from falling victim to predatory
         | sites and extensions. Pretty easy to script the entirety of the
         | OS install and lockdown so that it was documented and
         | repeatable. Can't do that without techie roots but I love that
         | it's possible and mostly straightforward from a scripting
         | perspective. It's almost exclusively get the right file with
         | the right config in the right place and restart a service.
         | 
         | The only major day-to-day downside IMO is battery life on Linux
         | laptops. Can't compare to current generation of Macs but that's
         | true for Windows too.
        
           | arcfour wrote:
           | I have been using desktop Linux for about the same amount of
           | time and the way I see it now, even on the occasion where I
           | have to troubleshoot something weird (which has maybe been
           | one or two times in the past few years), it doesn't sound any
           | different from the issues people are having with Windows and
           | Mac these days--and at least I can fix it!
        
             | throw-qqqqq wrote:
             | > and at least I can fix it!
             | 
             | 100% this!
             | 
             | I wrote this in another thread:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=46120975
             | 
             | > Openbox does everything I need it to. I don't want Mac or
             | Windows, they both suck in ways I can't change. Sure, Linux
             | can be rougher, but at least I'm not helpless here. I can
             | make the changes I need, and the software is generally less
             | broken IME
        
             | freedomben wrote:
             | Yes exactly. When I had a Mac for work, I had to tinker
             | with that thing just as much if not more so than I do
             | Linux. To windows credit, it was the best of the three when
             | it came to not having to tinker to get what I want, but the
             | lack of ability to configure it in a way that was
             | comfortable and preferable was more limited and difficult,
             | so there were annoyances I had to just live with. The point
             | at which they started injecting ads into my desktop
             | experience was a dark day and the day I said goodbye
        
               | arcfour wrote:
               | Oh god, I had a Mac for work recently and had to spend 3
               | weeks becoming an expert in Mac External Displays And
               | Thunderbolt just to get my HP Thunderbolt 4 dock
               | (officially compatible with Macs!) to use a dual monitor
               | setup with it. Finally I got it working, but every
               | configuration I tried Just Worked(tm) on Linux. Jeez...
        
           | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
           | In my experience, the remaining difficulties with Linux tend
           | to revolve around managing ownership and permissions of files
           | and directories.
           | 
           | I recently plugged in my external hard drive into my Linux PC
           | and it just wouldn't read it. "You do not have permission to
           | access this drive" or something like that. The solution after
           | googling ended up being (for some reason) some combination of
           | sudo chown -R user /dev/sda1 and unplugging and reconnecting
           | the drive.
           | 
           | No way to do that from the GUI (on KDE at least) and I'm not
           | sure how I'd even solve that problem if I didn't know the
           | super user password.
           | 
           | Still glad to be using Linux, of course, but sometimes these
           | problems still pop up.
        
             | amlib wrote:
             | This shouldn't happen with external disks formatted with
             | ntfs, ext or udf. If you have an EXT4 or something like
             | that external disk things get more hazy...
        
               | crazysim wrote:
               | Can't it just do what I _mean_ if it's a Desktop install
               | and mount it like ntfs, udf, or etc?
        
               | bisby wrote:
               | no? A file system is the format that the data on the disk
               | is stored as. If you mount an ext4 disk as ntfs, it
               | wouldn't load properly. It's not just the interface for
               | loading the data, it's how the data is actually stored.
        
               | crazysim wrote:
               | What I mean is that it should ignore permissions on
               | external ext4 by default in Desktops.
        
               | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
               | Whether it should or shouldn't, it did. But I think the
               | issue is less that it happened, and more that the user
               | interface doesn't respond to the "no permission" error by
               | offering up a button you can click to attempt to grant
               | yourself permission. If it can be done through the
               | terminal, there should be a novice friendly way as well.
               | 
               | (For that matter, a novice user shouldn't even have to
               | know how their external hard drive is formatted! It might
               | not even be their drive; it could be a family member
               | attempting to share photos with them. If they're just
               | plugging it in for the first time and seeing errors,
               | they'd be pretty hesitant to mess around with the
               | terminal typing in commands they don't understand).
        
               | amlib wrote:
               | Sorry, I didn't mean to imply this isn't an important
               | problem that needs to be addressed. I mostly agree with
               | what you say and I bet the right way to deal with this is
               | to have it be mounted with a special user space
               | filesystem like fuse that wraps the permissions to always
               | look correct for the user that mounted it, but I guess no
               | one so far has decided to take upon such task...
        
             | noAnswer wrote:
             | I don't doubt you had that problem. But it, and the
             | solution you want, sound a bit strange. You want a button
             | that gives your user access to everything despite its
             | access settings... Than login and work as root.
             | 
             | I mean it's hard to tell what really happened. But a
             | different user could have created this files with access
             | rights only for himself on purpose. Something one can do
             | with NTFS on Windows too. It also could have been a distro
             | bug.
             | 
             | > but sometimes these problems still pop up.
             | 
             | I'm a 90% Windows- 9.5% Linux- 0.5% Mac-Admin at day job:
             | Don't tell me Windows has no problems poping up. ;-)
        
           | surgical_fire wrote:
           | I've been on Mint for nearly 4 years now,. migrating from
           | Windows.
           | 
           | The only hiccup I had was botched updates once, and the OS
           | would error during boot.
           | 
           | The fix was easy, boot to terminal, fiddle with timeshift to
           | restore to the point prior to update, then apply de updates
           | carefully with a few reboots in between.
           | 
           | Now, was that easy? For someone well versed in the
           | technicalities, yes. For a layman, probably not.
           | 
           | Now, that said, it was the only problem I had in 4 years. It
           | has been very smooth sailing besides that.
           | 
           | My experience with Windows prior to that was always horrible.
           | Yearly clean installs because after a while the computer felt
           | extremely sluggish. Random blue screens for god knows what
           | reason.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | It's been like that for 15 years or more.
         | 
         | The fact that you now need an account for almost any piece of
         | hardware, including computers, phones etc is a major drawback
         | that arrived with the internet era. Linux has been able to
         | avoid that temptation.
        
           | dannyfritz07 wrote:
           | Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. 15 years ago I was
           | still looking up installation and driver procedures and
           | workarounds to install Linux on my devices. I failed to
           | install arch in college because I didn't have a driver for my
           | SATA drive for example.
           | 
           | Today though. Yeah totally easy. Especially if you get one of
           | the many machines with Linux support. Smooth sailing all
           | around.
        
             | mixmastamyk wrote:
             | Windows has also needed external drivers installed at
             | times, since the DOS days. It's the nature of obscure, new,
             | or advanced hardware.
        
             | noAnswer wrote:
             | Facetiously: Well actually, you didn't need a driver for
             | the SATA drive but the SATA controller.
             | 
             | Something that was also true for Windows and such a common
             | problem that many BIOSes would offer a IDE compatibility
             | mode one could switch to.
             | 
             | 26 years ago I installed SUSE and it just worked on my self
             | build PC. Smooth sailing all around. Than I tried Debian
             | and couldn't for the life of me get X11 to work.
             | 
             | So yeah, the distro and hardware lottery is still a
             | problem.
        
         | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
         | I've been using Linux as a desktop for that entire time, and
         | actually, it was better before. The hardware was simpler, more
         | compatible, and relied less on firmware blobs, so making Linux
         | drivers was way easier. And the software was simpler because
         | GUI makers weren't trying to be fancy. The peak of Linux
         | desktop stability and ease of use was in 2002. It's been
         | downhill from there.
        
         | Salgat wrote:
         | My experience, as a software developer, is that both Windows
         | and Linux desktop are great. The biggest advantage Windows has
         | is better support for desktop applications that are used by a
         | lot of people, which is just the nature of Windows being more
         | popular for desktop users, and is why I use it. With Linux,
         | it's more likely you'll have to be a bit more savvy with
         | occasional issues.
         | 
         | To note, with official Linux support on Windows, it's trivial
         | for me to get everything I want as a developer on Windows, so
         | that's never been a hard blocker for me.
        
       | SirFatty wrote:
       | Proof that this is the year of Linux on the Desktop!
        
       | toddmorey wrote:
       | Commercial OSes (both Windows and MacOS) now feel so insanely
       | agenda driven, and the agenda no longer feels like anything close
       | to making the user happy and productive. For Mac, it feels like
       | Apple wants to leverage what came out of VisionOS and unify the
       | look and feel of mobile and desktop--two things no one asked for.
       | For Windows, it feels like ads for their partners and ensuring
       | they don't fumble the ai/agent transition the way they did with
       | mobile.
       | 
       | Linux is SUCH a breath of fresh air. No one wants it to be
       | anything other than what you want it to be. Modern desktop Linux
       | has a much improved out of the box experience with good support
       | for all the hardware I've thrown at it. And Claude Code makes it
       | very fast and trivial to personalize, adapt, automate, etc.
        
         | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
         | Come back when I can run Linux on a laptop that has 12+ hours
         | battery life, runs fast, that's lightweight, quiet and doesn't
         | cause infertility from the heat when I put it on my lap....
         | 
         | Using an x86 laptop in 2025 is like using a flip phone 6 years
         | after the iPhone came out.
         | 
         | Of course if you are a gamer, ignore everything I just wrote.
        
           | mecsred wrote:
           | You mean the framework Ive been running for the past 4 years
           | or so?
        
             | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
             | You mean the same ones that consistently get bad reviews
             | for being hot, with poor battery life, heavy and sub par
             | screens?
             | 
             | https://community.frame.work/t/fw-16-review-the-good-the-
             | bad...
        
               | smj-edison wrote:
               | It's important to distinguish between the Framework 13
               | and the Framework 16. The Framework 16 is by far the most
               | ambitious of the two, and so it has had a lot more
               | issues. I use a Framework 13, and I've loved it. It's
               | light, has a solid frame, and runs Linux great. The
               | battery life isn't great, and the speakers aren't either,
               | but I've been able to mitigate the latter with
               | EasyEffects.
        
             | plagiarist wrote:
             | I've got a Framework I am not too upset with, but the
             | battery life (especially during sleep) is definitely one of
             | my gripes. I still have yet to try powertop or other tools
             | to optimize, maybe I would be proven wrong.
        
               | dale_glass wrote:
               | Sleep just ceased to exist in the last few years and got
               | replaced with an always on, low power mode.
               | 
               | I believe the reasoning was partly that suspend to RAM
               | had serious reliability issues due to the complexity of
               | saving the state, partly that people starting expecting
               | cell phone-like performance where eg, mail is always
               | received.
        
               | mixmastamyk wrote:
               | Depends. The Intel models still support sleep on Linux
               | (at least up to 12 or 13 gen, AMD boards only nap.
        
           | greenavocado wrote:
           | Besides the 12+ hour battery life which is only achievable
           | with ARM processors, everything described can be accomplished
           | easily for the typical slightly above average computer user
           | with Kubuntu today.
           | 
           | I installed latest Kubuntu on my old 2015 MacBook Pro and it
           | runs ice cold now when playing YouTube videos with Firefox
           | whereas before it ran hot even with a Mac fan control app
        
             | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
             | So everything but good battery life is achievable on a
             | portable device?
             | 
             | "Besides that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"
             | 
             | This isn't 2015... ARM Macs have been out for six years
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | If you know what to look for, you can also get good
               | battery life. The 268V CPU will give you pretty good
               | battery life.
        
               | xerox13ster wrote:
               | Come on, buddy, at this point, nobody could take you
               | seriously.
               | 
               | You are attributing to the software and OS a difference
               | that exists because of hardware.
               | 
               | You can't seriously sit here and say Linux battery life
               | on x86 doesn't reach your par when you're comparing it to
               | a completely different computing architecture.
               | 
               | You're comparing apples to oranges and complaining the
               | oranges are more sour than the apples.
               | 
               | Run Asahi Linux and tell me how it goes.
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | I don't care _why_ it's better. Whose fault is it that
               | Linux gets worse battery life on every computer that also
               | runs Windows or MacOS?
        
               | redeeman wrote:
               | it doesnt on thinkpad p16s
        
               | xerox13ster wrote:
               | Don't try to act like that is the discussion we've been
               | having.
               | 
               | You're holding Linux on x86 to a Mac on ARM standard.
               | 
               | It's fine if Linux doesn't meet your standards, but don't
               | try to act like that's Linux's fault and not your
               | standards'.
               | 
               | Nothing x86 meets your standards, so save the criticism.
        
               | timschmidt wrote:
               | Linux gets WAY better battery life on SteamDeck than
               | Windows: https://www.howtogeek.com/ive-tried-steamos-and-
               | windows-on-m...
        
               | rpdillon wrote:
               | I think what you're running into is that you have a
               | different attitude than some of us do about technology.
               | I've been using computers for a very long time as well,
               | but I don't feel a sense of entitlement to the latest and
               | greatest features because it often comes with other
               | compromises regarding freedom and control. Because Linux
               | is several years behind Windows and Mac in terms of
               | adopting those technologies, there is an evergreen
               | argument in every thread about Linux which boils down to
               | "Why can't it do this thing from the last four years?"
               | 
               | This is uniformly tiring and uninteresting. I've been
               | using 1920x1080 displays for 25 years and they're just
               | fine. A retina display is not necessary to do anything
               | that I need. Similarly with these requirements about
               | particular thermals and particular battery lifetime. I
               | can buy a battery and I can find a wall outlet.
               | 
               | You're comparing not having those features to having your
               | husband assassinated during a play. But I don't think a
               | lack of those features ruins the computing experience the
               | way having your husband assassinated would ruin the play.
               | The thing that ruins the play for me is when they chain
               | me to my seat and tell me I have to watch the whole thing
               | while they pin my eyelids open. And that's how I feel
               | about using Windows or Mac OS.
               | 
               | So to turn your original comment around, Windows and Mac
               | OS can call me when they allow me to configure my system
               | as I see fit, and not shove ads for their auxiliary
               | services in my face every time I try to start a program
               | or modify a setting.
        
             | cogman10 wrote:
             | I believe devices based on Lunar Lake (and the upcoming
             | panther lake) can hit 12h battery life. Something with a
             | 268V will be the fastest low power chip you can grab that
             | will likely support linux.
             | 
             | But I do wish there was a viable ARM laptop offering that
             | supports linux.
        
             | bitwize wrote:
             | But here's the thing with Apple ARM processors. Each core
             | in that M3 chip is _faster_ than the corresponding core in
             | an x86 chip. _And_ it has unified memory, meaning that the
             | CPU, GPU, and NPU all get access to the same RAM.
             | 
             | So you can get long battery life, cool thermals, _and_
             | superior performance _all in the same machine, at the same
             | time_. It will take the rest of the industry years to catch
             | up to what Apple has wrought.
        
           | xerox13ster wrote:
           | Given that this is your stance and demands for laptop
           | hardware I have to assume that you have never once
           | participated in the laptop market prior to the M1 releasing?
           | 
           | That's the only way your unrealistic expectations make sense.
           | 
           | Of course, people have been parroting that about Linux on
           | laptops for over a decade. I never understood it, since I've
           | never had any significant issues with Linux on my laptops.
        
             | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
             | Yes and I also had a flip phone before the iPhone came out
             | and a 90 pound CRT before large CRTs got affordable.
             | 
             | In fact my first computer was a 1Mhz Apple //e with 128KB
             | of RAM.
        
               | xerox13ster wrote:
               | I'm not sure what your point is?
               | 
               | You were ahead of the curve on displays and behind the
               | curve on phones and I guess congrats on the 2e start, I
               | had an early Mac.
               | 
               | What does this have to do with the price of CPU cycles in
               | clamshell PCs?
               | 
               | You abstained until ARM because you could see the future
               | and you knew that the specs you demanded we're gonna be
               | available eventually?
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | My point is that because something is acceptable before
               | something else came along better doesn't mean it's
               | acceptable now.
               | 
               | Would you have been okay if Android phones had still been
               | BlackBerry clones 7 years after the iPhone came out?
        
               | xerox13ster wrote:
               | I don't know what to say to that other than I pity that
               | mindset.
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | So I should still be using an Apple //e and an 80 pound
               | CRT TV?
        
               | xerox13ster wrote:
               | Please be serious, that straw-man is clearly not my
               | point. (I thought you said it was 90# of CRT)
               | 
               | There's definitely a balance between the newest of the
               | newest bleeding edge hardware that we could only have
               | dreamed of five years ago, and still functional hardware
               | from five years ago.
               | 
               | Just like engineering is a balance between technical
               | optimization and cost.
               | 
               | Seems like your mindset is one that chooses optimization
               | at any cost, which is pitiable.
               | 
               | I bought an M3 when it was brand new but I also have a
               | Dell XPS laptop that's running an Intel 8th GEN
               | processor. Both have their uses, and the existence of the
               | M3 does not make the Dell worthless or unacceptable.
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | A 6 year old M1 MacBook Air that is still being sold new
               | for $699 at Walmart is not "bleeding edge" and not
               | expensive. Even the latest MacBook Air with 16GB RAM is
               | $999.
               | 
               | And a 27 inch CRT was between 70 and 100 pounds...
        
             | carlosjobim wrote:
             | Battery life was always better on Macs, along with a bunch
             | of other things.
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | Apple did some OS optimizations. But the next to last x86
               | laptop generation (the butterfly keyboard era) was really
               | bad. The keyboards were bad and they had poor thermals
        
               | carlosjobim wrote:
               | Yes, those were far from perfect. Keyboards were
               | horrible. Still superior in many other aspects.
        
               | xerox13ster wrote:
               | Yeah, but that's Mac, not Linux on Laptops of the era
               | designed for Windows
        
               | hecifato wrote:
               | I remember battery life on my Late 2015 MBA was great for
               | the time. It easily got through my post-secondary
               | classes, 3-8 hours depending on the day, with leftovers.
               | IIRC Apple claimed 12 hours of battery life. That was a
               | significant improvement over the suggested 5 hours of my
               | previous laptops.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | Indeed nothing other than being the only device that
             | dropped connections on some of my routers, no hardware
             | video decoding no matter what tips from Linux forums I
             | tried, OpenGL 3.3 when the card supported OpenGL 4.1....
             | 
             | And when during 2024 I looked for a replacement after it
             | died, I was so lucky that I got one with an UEFI that
             | refused to load whatever distro I tried from SSD, while
             | having no issues loading the same, if it was on external
             | box over USB.
        
               | iam-TJ wrote:
               | "refused to load whatever distro I tried from SSD" sounds
               | very much like a feature in AMI InsydeH2O firmware (and
               | possibly others) where-by one has to manually "trust" the
               | boot-loader file the boot menu entry points to. This
               | doesn't seem to apply to Microsoft Windows boot loaders
               | so I've always assumed the signing certificate is checked
               | directly against the MS UEFI CA root rather than the
               | intermediate 3rd party certificate that is used by
               | Microsoft to sign distro shim files.
               | 
               | I have kept a screenshot of the firmware setup for years
               | to remind me where the option can be found; looking at it
               | now:
               | 
               | menu: Security > "Select UEFI file as trusted"
               | 
               | That would bring up a file-chooser where one can navigate
               | the files in the EFI System Partition and select the
               | distro's initial boot-loader file. For example, for a
               | Debian install it would either or both of:
               | 
               | /EFI/debian/shimx64.efi /EFI/debian/grubx64.efi
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | No, because that wasn't even an option on that device.
        
           | prezk wrote:
           | Linux will run on most platforms, so just pick up a fast,
           | lightweight laptop, and select a conservative power profile
           | for longer battery life and less heat, and don't run
           | 32-thread machine learning jobs on it.
           | 
           | A 12-hour laptop battery life is a little bit of a red
           | herring: yes, you can get it on efficient ultrabooks and
           | MacBooks, with light use like web browsing or office work, on
           | low brightness and minimal background apps. This is true on
           | MacOS, Windows and Linux. The first two may be better at
           | handling low power modes on hardware peripherals, but OTOH on
           | Linux I have a better control over background tasks.
           | 
           | I have an absolute trash travel laptop from last decade,
           | running Fedora Linux, and it lasts for multiple days if I
           | keep it mostly closed and just open it for whatever
           | browsing/editing I need on the road.
        
             | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
             | And how many laptops _running Linux_ are light, power
             | efficient, fast, quiet with good battery life?
             | 
             | My 16 inch M3 MacBook Pro runs 5 hours at 80% brightness
             | doing development with my USB powered (video and power from
             | one USB cord) portable monitor. The Mac battery is powering
             | the monitor
             | 
             | https://a.co/d/gHqpcs3
        
               | prezk wrote:
               | Pretty much every laptop on the planet will run Linux.
               | Maybe your optics are tinted because you seem to be a Mac
               | person, and Linux support for newer Macs has known issues
               | with low power modes.
               | 
               | I note how your 12+ hour claim was reduced to 5 hours
               | when you actually put it to real work. It's still
               | impressive, of course, but 5 hours aren't out of reach
               | for Ryzen laptops either.
               | 
               | BTW, I have a RISC-V platform with 8 1.6GHz CPUs that
               | uses under 5W under full load; on your 100Wh battery it
               | would last for 20 hours. It's not a complete system, and
               | performance lags behind Apple/Intel CPUs, but I think in
               | few years RISC-V may take a bite out of both.
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | It's not "running Linux" that's the issue. It's running
               | Linux and getting good battery lifez
               | 
               | And a 1.6Ghz RISC V CPU isn't exactly "fast" in 2026 or
               | even 2021.
               | 
               | You noted that it was 5 hours _when powering a second
               | monitor from its USB port_. Not just displaying video
               | from the USB port, the monitor is getting power from the
               | USB port.
               | 
               | How long do you think your 5 hour laptop would last
               | powering an external display - again not just video out,
               | also supplying power?
        
               | mixmastamyk wrote:
               | I personally don't care about battery life, there are
               | power outlets around everywhere I'll be more than several
               | hours.
               | 
               | Still, no one is getting that kind of battery life
               | outside apple, just the way it is. If your existence
               | revolves around battery life there's no substitute.
               | 
               | But note, this thread is about replacing Windows, and
               | Wintel does not do as well as Apple either. So this
               | thread is off-topic.
        
           | Rayosay wrote:
           | I think that the ThinkPad X13s Gen1 might meet these
           | requirements. It is my favorite ARM Linux laptop I've ever
           | used. It has great support in Debian 13 (trixie), and it
           | feels pretty smooth and fast. It doesn't have any fans, stays
           | cool, and I regularly get a full day's worth of battery life
           | out of it with margin to spare (10-12 hours). It's better
           | than the newer Snapdragon X1 Elite based ThinkPads, in my
           | opinion, even though it isn't quite as fast because it is
           | passively cooled, is easily fast enough that I've never
           | noticed it feeling "slow", has good driver support in
           | mainline Linux and Mesa (which took a few years to be fully
           | worked out, but is there now), and it's readily available for
           | a good price (on eBay).
        
             | oliwarner wrote:
             | Have you managed to get sleep states to work? I'd love mine
             | but it never sleeps properly.
             | 
             | Ubuntu but I'd change for sleep.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | Why would anyone come back? Nobody is bothered by you having
           | a device that you like, and nobody cares if you replace it.
           | 
           | People without this particular 12 hour battery life
           | requirement (which is quite niche, most of us live near
           | plugs) are talking about what works for them.
        
             | cocoto wrote:
             | Battery life is the best selling point of MacBooks and the
             | reason these are selling like crazy. I'm a full time Linux
             | user and I'm even considering buying a macbook and running
             | a Linux VM full time because of the battery.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | Just to be clear this is entirely a response to what I
               | have in the parentheses, right?
               | 
               | Ok, perhaps it is not niche. I don't know. I have never
               | had to use a laptop for 12 hours without any ability to
               | recharge but if that's a common use case I'm happy that
               | folks are finding a way to satisfy.
        
           | rwyinuse wrote:
           | I love my expensive Macbook at work, but at home old my old
           | Thinkpad running Linux is a godsend. The performance is
           | perfectly adequate for all my daily non-work needs, battery
           | lasts several hours, and since the thing has little monetary
           | value, I can be pretty careless with it, in an environment
           | with small kids running around and doing random things. At
           | this rate, I think it will last me well into 2030's.
           | 
           | I'm not going to buy a new Macbook with my own money as long
           | as I can't install Linux on it. I don't want perfectly fine
           | machines to turn into e-waste, or at least become insecure
           | once the original manufacturer decides not to offer OS
           | updates anymore.
        
             | wwweston wrote:
             | Pre-lenovo or post? any particular model?
        
           | tazjin wrote:
           | Xiaomi, Honor and Huawei make ARM-based notebooks like that.
           | The closest to your description is probably the Qingyun line
           | of laptops.
        
           | everdrive wrote:
           | >is like using a flip phone 6 years after the iPhone came
           | out.
           | 
           | I was doing this and it was great. I only had to get a smart
           | phone for work, and I hate the stupid thing.
        
           | oliwarner wrote:
           | Like the ThinkPad T14s or any other Snapdragon X Elite, or
           | better? Apple chips _are_ great in this space but they 're
           | not alone.
        
           | faust201 wrote:
           | One good thing is choice. You are free to use macOS or even
           | windows.
           | 
           | But this battery argument is bull shit
           | 
           | 15 years ago it was so difficult to find charging points.
           | 
           | Not now. I have never ever been in a situation the I needed
           | to be away from charging for > 6 hours. 6-10 hours is really
           | possible.
           | 
           | If your working or life demands that then pity you. I have
           | better life/work.
           | 
           | And again choice. You are free to use macOS or even windows.
        
             | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
             | My "work life" involves business travel - consulting.
             | 
             | My personal life involves month long stints of me working
             | outside the home and even at home, I am sometimes working
             | on the patio enjoying 80 degree weather in the middle of
             | winter in Florida...
        
           | RiverCrochet wrote:
           | Most of Linux's laptop woes is due to two things:
           | 
           | A. ACPI which is a sprawling, overengineered mess created by
           | Microsoft, Intel, and Toshiba, and
           | 
           | B. ACPI-specific things like sleep and power being tested
           | only for Windows
           | 
           | B is a direct result of two things: 1) crappy outsourced
           | firmware developers, and 2) Microsoft's 1990s strategy of
           | disallowing OEMs from offering systems with other operating
           | systems preinstalled.
           | 
           | So, not really Linux's fault. If the interfaces that
           | controlled all the laptop goodies were exposed as normal
           | hardware (and documented) instead of gatekept behind ACPI
           | methods that have to be written by firmware vendors that can
           | often barely spell the menu options correct in the setup
           | screens, then this issue would not exist.
           | 
           | UEFI is ACPI's successor and carries on this legacy. It's
           | disappointing that it's seeping into the ARM world.
        
             | timschmidt wrote:
             | > If the interfaces that controlled all the laptop goodies
             | were exposed as normal hardware (and documented) instead of
             | gatekept behind ACPI methods that have to be written by
             | firmware vendors that can often barely spell the menu
             | options correct in the setup screens, then this issue would
             | not exist.
             | 
             | > UEFI is ACPI's successor and carries on this legacy. It's
             | disappointing that it's seeping into the ARM world.
             | 
             | Arm (and Risc-V and other arches) Linux has
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devicetree instead of ACPI,
             | which is better in that it declaratively documents the
             | hardware in a system and how to access it. However, the
             | hardware support which can be found in the Arm ecosystem is
             | in no way better than that for x86 laptops. Many SoC
             | manufacturers still don't put any effort into upstreaming
             | drivers or device trees, many devices are still only
             | supported by tossing a single release of a heavily patched
             | kernel over the corporate wall and then forgetting about
             | them.
        
           | lpcvoid wrote:
           | Just buy any modern Laptop? What you describe hasn't been an
           | issue for at least ten years now.
        
           | nhhvhy wrote:
           | I recently switched to Debian on my laptop (Zephyrus G14)
           | because it was the only way I could get it to NOT run into
           | the problems you described. Went from ~2 hours of battery
           | life to 10, and no more of the constant jet engine level fan
           | activity I experienced with windows.
        
           | bigfatkitten wrote:
           | I was doing that on my Thinkpad X220 a decade ago.
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | I find it so odd that Apple put so much weight behind the
         | VisionOS design, rolling it out to all platforms, considering
         | so few people have Vision Pro. The justification for bringing
         | some iOS ideas to macOS made sense, because everyone knows how
         | to use iOS and is familiar with those conventions.
         | 
         | I'm curious if we'll see another major shift with the new deign
         | lead, or if the higher ups will want to run with Liquid Glass
         | for a while after so much investment, and not wanting to
         | alienate users by radically changing design direction too
         | often. Or if Liquid Glass is here to stay as long as we have
         | Vision Pro, because VR/AR demand that style of UI, so
         | everything else needs to fall in line for consistency's sake.
         | 
         | I think I'd be more apt to switch to Linux if it wasn't for all
         | the mobile integration macOS and iOS have. Giving that up is a
         | tough sell. It also means finding new solutions for managing
         | photos, music, notes, and a bunch of other things. I also
         | struggle to find non-Apple hardware I find acceptable. I've
         | used Linux on and off for over 20 years, and in the past few
         | years is gotten to the point where I think I could daily drive
         | it with little to no compromise, in a bubble. But mobile really
         | bursts that bubble.
        
           | xerox13ster wrote:
           | KDE Connect
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | It's not actually really the same as the visionOS design,
           | merely inspired by it.
        
           | Wowfunhappy wrote:
           | > I find it so odd that Apple put so much weight behind the
           | VisionOS design, rolling it out to all platforms, considering
           | so few people have Vision Pro.
           | 
           | I suspect they began working on Liquid Glass before the
           | Vision Pro was publicly unveiled, so they didn't know what
           | the public response would be.
           | 
           | What I honestly find more baffling is that they thought the
           | Vision Pro would sell well. It just isn't a good product.
           | 
           | Perhaps they're still banking on a future where the Vision
           | Pro becomes a pair of real glasses. In which case, Liquid
           | Glass _is_ the type of interface you 'd want to have.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | I thought I saw various comments to the effect that the
             | Vision Pro is just a developer thing to bootstrap the app
             | ecosystem, a prelude to a real consumer product. But if
             | that is the case I'm slightly confused as to why they
             | aren't sharing more of their roadmap...
        
               | 1over137 wrote:
               | Since when does Apple share their roadmap of anything?
               | They have been super-secretive for decades.
        
               | Wowfunhappy wrote:
               | I mean, if this was the strategy, it has clearly failed,
               | right? The Vision Pro doesn't have anything approaching a
               | thriving app ecosystem.
               | 
               | And if this was the strategy, I'd have expected to see
               | that consumer product by now. It has been almost two
               | years.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | 100% agree.
        
         | t43562 wrote:
         | Even within the range of Linux distros there are some that feel
         | more agenda-driven than others. That's the absolute wonder of
         | it. One can sidestep the flamewars and just use another distro
         | that suits likeminded people.
         | 
         | On the other hand I think this makes it difficult to provide a
         | perfect experience - you have to stay closer to the herd if you
         | want trouble free computing. You have the choice.
        
           | nwallin wrote:
           | I think it's great that there are Linux projects where the
           | people in the project are obviously unhinged fanatical
           | idealists sent on a mission by god to do <whatever> in the
           | One True Way. I wouldn't use any of those projects, but it's
           | great that they exist, and sometimes their good ideas
           | percolate out to projects that I do use.
           | 
           | Like fine, they're gonna make a distro that only uses
           | software under one of the FSF's free as in freedom copy-left
           | open source licenses, not just excluding closed source
           | software, but also binary blob device firmware and software
           | distributed under one of those filthy permissive licenses.
           | That's great. It's fucking _unusable_ , but it's awesome that
           | it exists and it's great that they're doing it.
        
             | herdymerzbow wrote:
             | Curious to hear which good ideas had their origin in a
             | distro run by fanatical idealists. Not asking for evidence
             | to try and disprove you. Genuinely curious!
        
         | blauditore wrote:
         | >unify the look and feel of mobile and desktop
         | 
         | Lol, that's what Microsoft tried 10+ years ago and everybody
         | gave them shit for it, especially Apple fans. Now Apple is
         | "inventing" this again.
        
           | 1over137 wrote:
           | Lots of Apple fans are giving Apple shit for it now too.
        
             | josephg wrote:
             | The new glass look is just so bad. It feels cheap, like a
             | child's toy. And performance is worse as a result.
             | 
             | I've turned it off on my phone, via the accessibility
             | settings. But it's clear Apple doesn't test the UI layout
             | much with the new glass look turned off. Lots of controls
             | are subtly misaligned now. I regret updating.
             | 
             | I have a Linux workstation. On Linux, nobody has the power
             | to foist new ideas - good or bad - onto all users. All the
             | arguing and bike shedding is one of Linux's big weaknesses.
             | But it's also a huge strength. The desktop experience
             | hasn't gotten worse over the last 20 years like it has on
             | windows and macOS. Programs start more or less instantly,
             | as they should on modern hardware.
        
               | dunham wrote:
               | > But it's clear Apple doesn't test the UI layout much
               | with the new glass look turned off
               | 
               | I turned it off and the keypad buttons for screen time
               | passcode became white on white.
        
           | snek_case wrote:
           | Ubuntu also tried this with Unity. They were hoping that
           | Ubuntu would become more popular on tablets if they had a
           | more tablet-friendly UI... They imposed this on desktop users
           | even though nobody asked for it and basically nobody used
           | Linux on a tablet. It was kind of a disaster. Ubuntu is a
           | commercial entity though, so yeah, prone to the same kind of
           | bad management decisions. as Microsoft and Apple. At least
           | with Linux you have options. Personally I just want Linux to
           | keep becoming more reliable over time, and have better
           | support for energy-saving features on laptops. It's sad that
           | Ubuntu still has issues waking up from sleep mode in 2025.
           | Somehow those problems haven't been fixed in 20 years.
        
             | CarVac wrote:
             | The thing is, Unity was great as a UI even on desktop. The
             | main issue was poor performance early on.
        
               | shevy-java wrote:
               | I found it was horrible. It is similar to GNOME here - a
               | design for tablets and smartphones. It simply does not
               | work on the desktop computer.
        
               | byproxy wrote:
               | I use standard GNOME as my desktop environment and
               | nothing about it feels like it was designed for tablets
               | and/or smartphones. Not that it isn't capable of being
               | used as such, but my desktop usage doesn't indicate that
               | tablet/smartphone use-cases were the primary goal. Is
               | GNOME even in wide use for those contexts?
        
               | abacadaba wrote:
               | ya i was a GNOME hater for a long time after the GNOME 3
               | transition, switched between Mate and KDE for years. But
               | gave up on those due to persistent video instability and
               | went to vanilla Ubuntu GNOME and it's actually pretty
               | nice. Not sure if it was good originally but I actually
               | prefer it now.
        
               | tombert wrote:
               | In a bit of fairness to the haters, Gnome 3 used to have
               | a lot of graphical glitches and was unstable in a lot of
               | its early iterations, but I broadly agree with your
               | characterization.
               | 
               | I think if you actually give modern Gnome a chance (and
               | actually make an attempt to _learn_ it), it 's actually a
               | pretty slick desktop.
        
               | tombert wrote:
               | I disagree with this characterization.
               | 
               | I don't run Gnome now (since I have more fun hacking on
               | Sway), but I really don't think that the characterization
               | of it being a "tablet desktop" is actually very fair. I
               | found Gnome to be very productive, and actually extremely
               | keyboard focused. Outside of a tiling window manager like
               | Sway or i3, I actually have found it more keyboard-
               | centric than any other desktop I've used.
               | 
               | The reason I am harping on keyboard is because to me the
               | keyboard is the signature differentiator between
               | "desktop" and "tablet".
               | 
               | I feel like everyone hated on Gnome because it was
               | different. They tried it for ten minutes, didn't bother
               | trying to actually learn how to use it, declared it as
               | "shit", and moved on. I was one of those people.
               | 
               | It wasn't until I decided to stick with Gnome for a few
               | weeks (using the Antergos distro of Arch) that I came
               | around, and now I find it to be the most productive of
               | the "normie" desktops on Linux.
        
               | marssaxman wrote:
               | It really was! I have never even used a tablet, but I was
               | disappointed when they dropped Unity and went back to the
               | old way.
               | 
               | But I was never a Windows user, either, and I've never
               | held the idea that there is one normal and right way to
               | do a computer interface, so I think I was more open to it
               | than many people are.
        
               | drdec wrote:
               | To me, the killer feature of Unity was the searchable
               | application menus. Wish that was still a thing
        
               | fao_ wrote:
               | KDE supports this! It's called the "global menu", and has
               | search built in. GTK app support is iffy, though
        
               | dualogy wrote:
               | Since I found with searchable app menus / start menus
               | that I don't ever navigate through menus but just start
               | typing, I ditched the menu entirely and have KRunner
               | bound to the Win key. Not only is it fine with any
               | desktop app GTK or not (that packagers have ensured will
               | install with its FreeDesktop metadata file or some such),
               | it supports all the enabled KDE Search plugins. So I
               | don't ever open a calc app again, either..
        
             | lossyalgo wrote:
             | I also still have tons of issues waking from sleep mode on
             | various PCs running Win10/11 so I wouldn't be so quick to
             | label it an OS issue.
        
               | whatevaa wrote:
               | Yeah, it is a general PC thing. Steam deck sleeps
               | perfectly, so it can be done properly, but manufacturers
               | are lazy.
        
             | tormeh wrote:
             | I suspect that's an Nvidia problem. Never been an issue for
             | me using AMD.
        
               | spockz wrote:
               | It's the only issue I have on my CachyOS install on an
               | AMD 5900X+9070XT without additional peripherals. It seems
               | like when I hit sleep it doesn't manage to fully enter
               | sleep (illustrated by the power lights) and then never
               | wakes up anymore until a hard power reset.
        
               | kentonv wrote:
               | I've had wake-from-suspend issues on plenty of non-nvidia
               | machines, and I have had nvidia machines that have no
               | issues.
               | 
               | I think it has nothing to do with the GPU and everything
               | to do with the motherboard chipset.
        
             | jayd16 wrote:
             | Keep in mind there's a whole class of touch screen laptops
             | that did need to be serviced by Windows and Linux.
        
           | horsawlarway wrote:
           | Honestly, forced to use a macbook for work and I get
           | incredibly strong "windows 8" vibes from macos.
           | 
           | Apple still has pretty incredible hardware, although it's
           | definitely priced with that in mind - but the software has
           | been a _constant_ slog. Change for change 's sake, needless
           | shifting in settings/config menus. Weird "we tried to make
           | this similar to mobile" themes in some places but not others.
           | Overly complex os navigation, without clear goals or
           | direction.
           | 
           | Frankly - the OS apple is producing for their traditional
           | computers feels like garbage. I use Arch/Gnome on my personal
           | hardware and I feel like some time in the last 5ish years my
           | opinion swapped - I used to think Gnome was mostly copying
           | Apple design choices, but slightly worse. Now I think Gnome
           | is just a more clear, more usable DE than what Apple is
           | releasing. I moved my wife to Arch/Gnome on her personal
           | laptop last year, and the sure sign was that she hasn't
           | really had any problems with it.
           | 
           | All that said... I still keep a laptop around with Windows 11
           | on it, because I have a couple of legacy tools (CNCs, solar
           | inverters) that still want it, and _holy shit_ is modern
           | Windows just absolute trash. I grew up on Windows, from
           | windows 3.1 to windows 10, and it 's the worst of the 3 by a
           | good distance right now.
           | 
           | You know something's gone wrong with commercial tech
           | companies when the only OS that actually feels like it's
           | intentionally designed for users is the free product.
        
             | shinycode wrote:
             | In what way does MacOS feels like garbage ? I use it
             | everyday on a +5y MacBook and it's an absolute blast.
             | Powered on for weeks without reboot, 3x4K 32inch screens,
             | hundred of chrome pages and apps opened and it's all
             | smooth. Ofc I don't even hear a fan but the software is
             | amazing for me. It all works, all the time.
        
           | halapro wrote:
           | You can't seriously compare how inappropriate Windows 8 was
           | on desktop to the latest macOS. Bad UI aside, the OS is
           | effectively the same OS X from 2001 with some fresh skin.
           | 
           | Also a lot of people hate on macOS changes, I myself did not
           | upgrade to the latest version.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | I guarantee that there is enough stuff from 2001 that won't
             | work in Tahoe.
        
             | Wowfunhappy wrote:
             | Actually, I think Tohoe is much worse!
             | 
             | Windows 8 is fundamentally just Windows 7 with a full
             | screen start menu. This is a dumb usability downgrade, but
             | unless you went out of your way to install Metro apps, it
             | wasn't such a big change. Your apps worked the same way
             | they always had.
        
               | debo_ wrote:
               | Mac OS Touhou would probably be better received than Mac
               | OS Tahoe.
        
             | icedchai wrote:
             | I'm still on Sequoia on both my Macs. I updated my iPad Pro
             | to iOS 26, decided it was meh, and am not updating my
             | phone. My iPhone is over 4 years old and figure the new iOS
             | will run like crap on it and then I'll be forced to get a
             | new phone.
        
               | 20after4 wrote:
               | > figure the new iOS will run like crap on it and then
               | I'll be forced to get a new phone.
               | 
               | Indeed, it does run like crap on older phones. You made
               | the right choice. I don't feel forced to upgrade my phone
               | but the new OS definitely drains the battery faster and
               | feels slightly sluggish, making me regret the "upgrade."
        
               | aucisson_masque wrote:
               | What about the security update, especially for the phone
               | ? There have been critical flaws patched recently.
               | 
               | Agree that iOS 26 is trash and it empty my iPhone 13 mini
               | battery in less time than I need to write it.
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | Except that GNOME Mobile is actually pretty close to
           | achieving that right now, and runs quite well on any
           | reasonably up-to-date mobile hardware if the kernel-level
           | support is there.
        
           | latexr wrote:
           | Effectively no one is arguing Apple is "inventing" this, and
           | tons of people--especially the most ardent Apple fans--hate
           | this direction. Adoption of the 26 OSs is lower than others
           | in recent memory. Even the comment you're replying to is
           | critical of it.
           | 
           | There are a lot of legitimate reasons to criticise Apple,
           | especially under Tim Cook. Let's please not do this obvious
           | rage bait where you fabricate that a group has a singular
           | unified hypocritical opinion which is the opposite of what
           | we're seeing just so you can hate on them.
           | 
           | What even is the point? For the past twenty years, I have
           | _never_ seen an Apple fan being as close to annoying as the
           | haters are. Same thing with other groups like vegans: There
           | are more people loudly proclaiming that vegans are annoying
           | than there are annoying vegans in the world.
           | 
           | Why must we keep defining ourselves by hating on others? As
           | long as they're not causing harm, let people be. "Why are you
           | so angry?"
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExEHuNrC8yU&list=PLJA_jUddXv.
           | ..
        
           | barnabee wrote:
           | I'm old enough to remember everyone _praising_ Apple for not
           | following Microsoft and making iOS it 's own separate thing.
           | 
           | It's totally mad that they're now trying to converge their
           | two differentiated, successful, and (mostly) well-liked OSes
           | with the new one they just made for a $3000 headset nobody
           | bought and even fewer people use with any regularity.
        
           | temporallobe wrote:
           | They also seem to be reinventing Windows Vista (visually).
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Windows is a bizarre product at this point; it is what the
         | company is famous for, but it is small beans next to Azure,
         | right?
         | 
         | Nobody would get into the Operating System business to make
         | money I think, the going rate is $0, subsidized by something
         | (an ad company, a hardware company, or general kindness and
         | community spirit).
        
           | MarsIronPI wrote:
           | No, Windows still has Windows tax, which is why I always
           | choose "No OS" when buying a machine. MacOS/iOS/iPadOS were
           | never for sale separately, so we can't judge the price.
           | Android sure is subsidized though.
        
             | g947o wrote:
             | Android does have a cost. While the OS itself is free, any
             | manufacturer that wants to put Play Store, which is almost
             | every company outside China, needs to pay Google a license
             | fee, which effectively pays for Android. Of course there
             | are also ads everywhere in Android and Android apps that
             | helps pay the bill.
        
               | MarsIronPI wrote:
               | Wow, so the only OSs with no money in them are the FOSS
               | ones. Makes sense, though.
               | 
               | (No, at this point Android hardly counts as FOSS
               | anymore.)
        
           | gunalx wrote:
           | Productivity and Cloud have a revenue of about 30B each while
           | personal computing only was 13.5B (that includes windows Xbox
           | and search + advertising) according to ms earnings report q4
           | 25
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | Yep! That's what I was thinking of. It is a cloud hosting
             | company that keeps some legacy software around for
             | sentimental reasons.
        
               | wvenable wrote:
               | The only reason Azure is a success though is because of
               | Windows. Maybe now it's so big that it can exist without
               | Windows but Windows is the gateway into Azure. So many
               | other companies would kill for a platform (aka Meta) and
               | here Microsoft has one and is treating it poorly. In pure
               | financial terms it makes sense but, as a business
               | strategy, I think it's severely lacking.
        
               | davkan wrote:
               | I would imagine a significant portion of the cloud
               | revenue is derivative of windows though. Whether that's
               | lift and shift workloads or entra id which is picked over
               | alternatives for its compatibility with existing windows
               | and AD infrastructure.
        
           | leptons wrote:
           | If you want the "Home" version of Windows, you'll get ads and
           | crap, but the cost will be free/low. If you don't want the
           | ads and need a more professional setup, then you can pay for
           | Windows "Pro" version. They also have server versions that
           | cost a lot more, so yes, Microsoft can and does make money
           | from their OS. No, it's probably not as much as they make
           | from Azure now, but in the past it made them a lot of money.
           | It's estimated Windows brings in ~$20 billion for Microsoft,
           | which is nothing to balk at. Azure brings in ~$75 billion.
           | $20 billion isn't "small beans" in this equation, it's
           | substantial.
        
         | Macha wrote:
         | It's typical business logic. It's not enough to focus on making
         | the product better than the user, you must have a "big" product
         | vision and you're only allowed make changes that align with
         | that product vision.
         | 
         | So when that vision is something that users are ambivalent on
         | (3D TV, AI operating system, etc...), well tough, that's still
         | all they're getting until it hurts the company financially or
         | the next executive has a different "big idea". :(
        
         | 1over137 wrote:
         | Commercial OSes (both Windows and macOS) are also both
         | American, and lots of people are trying to de-Americanize.
        
           | cyberpunk wrote:
           | Yep, I'm in this boat. After years of macs my next will be a
           | FreeBSD Desktop.
           | 
           | edit: Although phone is much harder. I guess I'll just turn
           | all the 'stuff' like icloud off, use only signal and my
           | banking/etc apps, and get a separate camera.. Anyone found a
           | less painful way to live without an iPhone/Android?
        
             | Forgeties79 wrote:
             | As someone who had been in the Apple ecosystem since
             | Windows XP, it was difficult to lose that constant seamless
             | interplay between my phone and computer. But honestly? The
             | trade-off was worth it in the end. I'm 8mo into Linux-only
             | desktop and man...it's great.
        
               | 20after4 wrote:
               | Look into KDE Connect1 - it provides some of that
               | seamless experience. It even has some basic support for
               | syncing between iOS and Gnome, but it's originally
               | designed for seamless integration between Android and
               | KDE's plasma desktop.
               | 
               | 1. https://kdeconnect.kde.org/
        
               | Forgeties79 wrote:
               | I use it some but it's just not the same. Very useful and
               | well built don't get me wrong.
        
             | barnabee wrote:
             | GrapheneOS is not quite "without" Android but it's without
             | what makes it bad (Google) and works fine for me. I hear
             | LineageOS is ok too.
        
             | touwer wrote:
             | Fairphone with Graphene
        
               | hans_castorp wrote:
               | Graphene only runs on Pixel phones
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | However if we don't get something like SuSE desktops and
           | laptops at Media Markt and friends, most people won't care.
           | 
           | In fact I know of library that rolled back to Windows kiosk
           | mode, from a previous SuSE deployment, because it wasn't what
           | library users were expecting.
        
           | shevy-java wrote:
           | Yeah. The TechBros changed things globally. I can not support
           | their Evilness, so I also need to get people to commit to
           | having viable alternatives, e. g. improving LibreOffice to
           | the point where the proprietary office suites from US
           | corporations are no longer needed.
        
           | anon291 wrote:
           | Linux is also realistically American since the largest
           | contributors are American corporations and the dictator for
           | life lives on Portland oregon.
           | 
           | America has a monopoly on software essentially.
        
             | cultofmetatron wrote:
             | assumign this is arguing in good faith..
             | 
             | the issue is not about it being american as it is america
             | being in control of it. you don't get access to windows or
             | mac os source code. You can however take the linux source
             | code, fork it and make it yours. that "dictator for life"
             | in portland can't stop you. nor can anyone else in the us
             | government for that matter.
        
               | 20after4 wrote:
               | Not to mention that many of the most important open
               | source events and organizations are based in Europe.
        
               | luckylion wrote:
               | But technically you can also do that with chromium and
               | gecko, but it's a lot of work, so very few do. And those
               | that do don't cut the line, they'll almost all still
               | follow upstream and just apply their changes.
               | 
               | So in the end, they're still dependent on the decisions
               | made in the US. That doesn't need to be a problem, but I
               | don't think "you can get the source code" really changes
               | that.
        
               | cultofmetatron wrote:
               | > but it's a lot of work, so very few do.
               | 
               | sure but a nation state that takes digital sovereignty
               | seriously could easily devote some resources towards
               | maintaining their own fork. Thats the point. Hell, north
               | korea has their own special linux distro
        
             | 1over137 wrote:
             | It doesn't much matter that Americans are the largest
             | contributors, because you can still take it and change it
             | however you want.
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | The question is which nation you'll have to depend on when
             | you want a bug fixed. With OSS, the answer is "none".
        
         | rrgok wrote:
         | As if Linux was/is not agenda driven. People really forgot I
         | guess.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | By agenda-driven, I think they mean the commercial operating
           | systems are designed with the intention of improving the
           | uptake of other products and services by the companies that
           | sell them.
           | 
           | I think you are referencing something more like a political
           | agenda. And Linux to some extent, GNU even more so _are_
           | motivated by a political agenda: user empowerment. It is
           | just... a good agenda.
        
           | b00ty4breakfast wrote:
           | Obviously, you can't build something as complex as a modern
           | operating system without intention, and therefore an "agenda"
           | but I have a feeling you know what OP was getting at.
           | 
           | I also know that the impulse to be a pedant is strong because
           | I fight it every day, ha!
        
         | Forgeties79 wrote:
         | I turn on my computer, the desktop shows up...and that's it. No
         | random windows, no popups about some bundled software I don't
         | use or how my subscription for X service I don't want isn't
         | activated. A chime and a blank screen. Bazzite made my computer
         | _fun_ again.
        
         | shevy-java wrote:
         | I agree with you. Microsoft really has gotten bad in this
         | regard. In the past, the operating system was kind of semi-
         | useful. Now one has to wonder what the real agenda is. For me
         | the quitting point was the recall-sniffing on everyone; I don't
         | care if this can be disabled. To me it means that the USA wants
         | to monitor me non-stop. That's a no go. (I was already using
         | Linux before, so I don't depend on Microsoft anyway, but it now
         | meant that I also need to stop using secondary computers with a
         | Microsoft-tainted operating system. I can not trust the USA in
         | any regard anymore with the TechBros in charge. They killed all
         | goodwill and reputation.)
        
         | themafia wrote:
         | > and ensuring they don't fumble the ai/agent transition
         | 
         | They've already fumbled it.
         | 
         | > the way they did with mobile.
         | 
         | It's the exact same way they fumbled with mobile. They were
         | very late to the party and decided to buy their way in. It
         | _never_ works.
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | MS was almost two decades early to the mobile party, and
           | still fumbled it. Because they didn't have the usability
           | insights around touchscreens that others pioneered.
           | 
           | Also could never name things--they named it Wince.
        
         | SilentM68 wrote:
         | Windows has evolved into the world's highest security risk.
         | MacOS feels like Eye Candy due to its increasingly inaccessible
         | price for people with low resources. So, price and security are
         | the reasons why I switched to Linux.
        
           | TacticalCoder wrote:
           | > Windows has evolved into the world's highest security risk.
           | 
           | It has always been.
        
             | SilentM68 wrote:
             | That unfortunately is true, for the most part. Whether this
             | is due to financial reasons or for lack of engineering best
             | practices, I can't say. All I can say is that, switching to
             | Linux has led to significantly less cost, technical or
             | spyware issues, not counting the issues which I created out
             | of ignorance.
        
           | derrheat wrote:
           | Getting a macbook is cheaper than it has ever been. You can
           | get a new m4 macbook air for around 750 on amazon. The prices
           | of apple laptops have been dropping every year despite
           | inflation in the rest of the economy....
        
             | SilentM68 wrote:
             | Yes, prices have gone down over the years, but still
             | unaffordable by people who can afford less.
             | 
             | Don't get me wrong, MacOS graphics, aesthetics, GUI, are
             | awesome and I like its consistency but there are cons, too.
             | 
             | They typically have a higher upfront cost, limited
             | upgrades, fewer ports/software options, repair challenges.
             | 
             | For comparisons, I purchased an Acer Helios 300, three or
             | four years with the following specs:
             | 
             | The Acer Predator Helios 300 Processor: Intel(r) Core(tm)
             | i7 Memory: 16 GB RAM Storage: 512 GB SSD Display: 15.6"
             | Full HD (1920 x 1080) IPS ComfyView Graphics: NVIDIA(r)
             | GeForce RTX 20xx.
             | 
             | I upgraded the machine's drives, to three, run Windows on
             | the 500GB SSD drive, Linux on a 2TB M.2 drive and have a
             | 4TB storage drive.
             | 
             | This is not something that I could do on a MacOS without a
             | significant price upgrade. As such, I would say that MacOS
             | is restrictive as far as hardware upgrade, and price. It's
             | just Eye Candy for most people.
        
           | hollerith wrote:
           | >price and security are the reasons why I switched to Linux
           | 
           | What measures do you take to insulate yourself from desktop
           | Linux's really bad security?
        
             | SilentM68 wrote:
             | Ha, I have nothing on my machine that anyone would want.
             | Yes, my life is that boring. So no, I keep nothing of
             | importance in the drives, just old memories.
             | 
             | Out of the box, I've experienced less spyware-related
             | issues with Linux. I have enabled UFW, installed ClamAV,
             | closed or blocked communication with some ports. But for
             | the most part, I've not had the same problems that had
             | caused system and browser infections. If anything, the
             | badly designed hardware of the machines and systems that
             | I've built tend to cause the problems, for the most part,
             | not to mention my own stupidity. If I do begin to
             | experience, spy or adware-related issues, I suppose I could
             | look into something like this: https://github.com/pi-
             | hole/pi-hole
             | 
             | Though if things got to the point where I'd need more
             | protection, I'd think about the following:
             | 
             | -Keep system and software updated. -Enable firewall (e.g.,
             | UFW). -Use strong passwords and MFA. -Install from trusted
             | sources only. -Encrypt disks (e.g., LUKS). -Use SELinux or
             | AppArmor. -Sandbox apps with Flatpak/Wayland. -Install
             | antivirus like ClamAV. -Disable unnecessary services.
             | -Monitor logs and use tools like OpenSnitch. -Switch to
             | CubesOS (qubes-os.org) but I'm not that paranoid, yet :)
             | 
             | I'm just not too tech savvy, but honestly if anyone had
             | enough knowledge, they'd probably could get into my system.
             | That being said, though I consider Linux to be more secure
             | than Windows, no system is 100% secure, in my view.
        
         | nailer wrote:
         | I'm stuck in a world of AirDrop and expecting my phone to know
         | the Wi-Fi password on my laptop, so I'm not gonna leave MacOS
         | but it absolutely does suck. It used to be that Spotlight file
         | finding was broken, but as of the last today Finder file
         | finding is broken too. This is on multiple new Macs.
        
         | pedalpete wrote:
         | Mac feels like it is constantly trying to sell you on their
         | cloud services. A few times a day it will tell me that I
         | haven't backed up to the cloud.
         | 
         | Windows is strangely less direct, but will regularly
         | automatically try to save something to onedrive and force a
         | subscription. Plus, it is just full of ads and nonsense.
        
           | ElCapitanMarkla wrote:
           | Ugh it annoys me so much that the desktop etc is all in one
           | drive without me setting it that way. But then there is still
           | a desktop/documents directory in the usual spot under your
           | profile, just the files don't appear if you actually look at
           | the desktop.
        
         | dana321 wrote:
         | Windows 10 and Sequoia are the last two versions before the
         | complete and utter enshittification of these operating systems.
        
       | curious_riddler wrote:
       | I would gladly move to Linux from macOS if only I could get the
       | same energy efficiency on the arm MacBooks.
        
       | p4coder wrote:
       | How do you do taxes in Linux? Install a windows VM? I don't want
       | to use the web version. With Google docs being good enough, I
       | don't really need windows for anything else. Last time I checked,
       | the tax software didn't run under wine.
        
         | Majestic121 wrote:
         | Where do you need windows to do your taxes? Is this a US thing?
        
           | jethro_tell wrote:
           | I hope not because I've been doing my US taxes on Linux for
           | 15 years.
           | 
           | It's probably a specific windows desktop app, probably
           | TurboTax by intuit, the company that lobbies to make filing
           | your taxes hard and to destroy any free simple government app
           | to file taxes.
           | 
           | So, not sure why they'd complain about not being able to help
           | shoot their foot off but we all have preferences. :shrug:
        
             | sylens wrote:
             | TurboTax has had a great browser-based version for over a
             | decade now
        
           | p4coder wrote:
           | Yes, it is the unfortunate reality of the US. You either fork
           | over all your data to tax preparation companies on the web or
           | pay them to use windows/MacOS software. There is still paper
           | filing by doing taxes by hand, but that's a bit too
           | inconvenient. Free online filing is restricted to $89k annual
           | income.
        
         | xboxnolifes wrote:
         | What tax software are you running? Basically all of the tax
         | software for individuals is a browser-based SaaS.
        
         | bikelang wrote:
         | In years that my taxes are simple - I open up my browser and go
         | to FreeTaxUSA. In years that my taxes are complex - I pay a
         | CPA. What do you use?
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Personally I'm fine using the web version. If you arbitrarily
         | cut out solutions, you will be sure to find unsolvable
         | problems.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | Since it is paid, how is he going with hardware accelerated video
       | decoding on YouTube, Netflix or Amazon Prime?
       | 
       | Which I never got to work properly on the laptop/netbook I owned
       | until 2024.
        
         | bigyabai wrote:
         | Who knows, it's 2026 now.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Yeah, and still it isn't the Year of Linux Desktop for 90% of
           | the world, unless it is hosted on a VM.
           | 
           | Being generous with Steam hardware survey numbers for
           | GNU/Linux.
        
         | osamagirl69 wrote:
         | There have been leaps and bounds of progress in the last few
         | years. Youtube hardware acceleration works perfectly in
         | chrome/firefox now (assuming you have working video drivers).
         | 
         | As far as I know netflix still limits you to 720p under most
         | browsers (although their support page shows that opera of all
         | things supports 1080p)
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | I watch Freetube and Netflix on my Starlite tablet and it works
         | well. Works on the laptop too, though I don't watch there.
         | 
         | libva is usually installed these days but you can install it
         | manually. For Netflix you'll need to install widevine.
        
       | antennafirepla wrote:
       | For not much prior research, he sure has done a lot of prior
       | research to even know about desktop environments or bootloaders
       | compared to your average windows user. This article read like
       | every other promising Linux is user friendly and easy, then
       | proceeding with the author fixing issues the average user
       | wouldn't be able to even diagnose.
       | 
       | I think anyone technically savvy enough to follow the article is
       | already aware Linux is a viable primary OS, the question is can
       | you manage it without having to become a Linux nerd? I want to be
       | able to tell normal people they can use Linux.
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | If you get someone to help you with the installation, or buy a
         | pre-installed Linux, then yes I believe this to be true. I only
         | have anecdotal evidence, but I have my dad who is very non-tech
         | savvy who after about a day with gnome actually said it's the
         | first desktop environment that he liked more than Windows 95.
         | There has been one time in 5 years that he had to reach out for
         | technical assistance. It turned out that he had been misled by
         | a prompt to buy Ubuntu pro and had gotten into a weird state. I
         | blame that one solely on canonical, not on Linux in general.
         | After that I switched him to Fedora, and he's been running that
         | now for a few years and didn't even realize I had changed his
         | underlying OS. He is able to install anything he wants from the
         | graphical storefront, and same with updates. In the early days
         | we did have some trouble getting his printer to work, though
         | once we switched him to Fedora everything on that printer
         | worked out of the box. When my sister came over to his house
         | with her MacBook, she had to mess with the Mac to get the
         | printer working for over an hour, and it was still pretty hit
         | or miss. It would lose half the jobs she tried to send to it.
         | It truly is remarkable how usable Linux is for the average
         | person now. For people that have to run software that only runs
         | on Windows or Linux, excluding games of course since steam and
         | other game managers handle those wonderfully now, there is
         | definitely still a bit of pain. But for people who can get by
         | with cloud-based or Linux friendly software, it's really quite
         | good.
        
           | jethro_tell wrote:
           | My sister was the same, she brought her machine over, I
           | booted a Ubuntu disk and did the disk config in the install
           | and then she set the rest of the stuff up and I haven't heard
           | from her about it for 5 years, other than that I check if
           | she's still using it now and again.
        
           | philistine wrote:
           | Printers. It always haunts us. I have exclusively bought
           | Brother for home and work for close to two decades at this
           | point because they follow CUPS standards requiring no
           | fidgeting, and their modern offerings all have AirPrint,
           | which eliminates the need for drivers. It's 2026, and the
           | normies still think you cannot print from your phone because
           | printers suck so much.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | Hey, we should be thankful that printers suck. Wasn't this
             | whole journey kicked off by Stallman getting frustrated
             | with printer drivers?
        
             | ipsi wrote:
             | Even then - I have a reasonably nice Brother
             | Printer/Scanner/etc device, and I could _never_ get
             | AirPrint to reliably work until I switched over to using
             | Ethernet instead of Wi-Fi. Something to do with it going to
             | sleep and not broadcasting the necessary mDNS stuff, IIRC.
             | I couldn 't find any combination of settings in the printer
             | to make it happy, and since it's now right next to a
             | switch, it's not really worth the effort of digging any
             | further.
        
           | einpoklum wrote:
           | > after about a day with gnome actually said it's the first
           | desktop environment that he liked more than Windows 95.
           | 
           | You have to choose that?
           | 
           | I'm a long-time Linux user, and I don't like GNOME better as
           | a desktop environment. I'll take a Windows 95-like desktop UI
           | over GNOME any day of the week...
        
           | rav3ndust wrote:
           | > but I have my dad who is very non-tech savvy who after
           | about a day with gnome actually said it's the first desktop
           | environment that he liked more than Windows 95.
           | 
           | more anecdotes, but I had the same experience with getting my
           | mother in law on Linux. she is 75, and hadn't used a computer
           | since her old job, and she used Windows XP, i believe she
           | said, there. a couple of years ago, she wanted a bigger
           | screen device to use for her internetting since her eyesight
           | isn't what it used to be (her primary computing device was
           | always her Android phone otherwise). my wife and I got her a
           | thinkpad t440p, set her up with Debian GNOME, showed her how
           | to use the Software Centre and install her stuff and update
           | the machine, and off she went. haven't had a call to fix
           | anything at all. she says she likes the experience better
           | than the computers she remembers using at work running
           | Windows.
        
         | xerox13ster wrote:
         | *GASP* OH NO THEY MIGHT LEARN A SKILL!!!!
         | 
         | Snark aside, I really really don't understand the aversion,
         | even within the tech community, to learning new skills
         | especially as it pertains to Linux.
         | 
         | Would having new knowledge be such a burden? Why is it
         | something to avoid? Why is it not a good thing if normal people
         | learn more about computing?
         | 
         | Do we want a population of iPad baby Linux users? Normal people
         | can use it now, don't gate keep.
         | 
         | We have people going "I don't have to read, I could just have
         | the AI do it for me" and pretty soon they're not gonna be able
         | to think. People don't want to think or learn because we have
         | such a cultural aversion to being a nerd. Nerd is not a bad
         | thing.
        
           | erikon wrote:
           | Because although sometimes annoying, people already have a
           | good alternative making the hours required to invest in
           | something they're not interested in a very high price.
           | 
           | It's the same reason why as a software developer I use Visual
           | Studio Code and don't plan to learn (neo)vim.
           | 
           | I (like many who'd have to learn Linux) have better things to
           | do.
        
             | xerox13ster wrote:
             | You simply dismissed or forgot the learning you did to use
             | Visual Studio Code.
             | 
             | Regardless of how much learning you did you still had to
             | learn how to use it.
             | 
             | Just trying to short-circuit that logic and show you that
             | it cuts both ways and that we should be willing to learn
             | new tools.
        
               | erikon wrote:
               | That is true, but you can't deny the fact one tool has a
               | significantly steeper learning curve. They are not the
               | same.
        
           | retsibsi wrote:
           | Partly, the issue isn't "they would have to learn about
           | Linux, and that's bad", it's "they would have to learn about
           | Linux, and they wouldn't want do that, and so they would get
           | frustrated and quite likely give up on it, and my
           | recommendation would have been a waste of their time".
           | 
           | The other part is that they're not necessarily wrong not to
           | want to learn about Linux! Learning is great, when it's
           | something interesting or valuable. But if I'm not interested
           | in the thing, and my time and mental resources are limited,
           | and I have a good enough alternative, I think it's absolutely
           | fine to avoid it.
           | 
           | Most of us choose to drive a car that just works, and take it
           | to a mechanic when it doesn't, rather than buying one that
           | requires and rewards tinkering. Maybe you're into cars, I
           | don't know, but I bet you take this attitude to at least
           | _some_ of the useful objects in your life.
        
             | otherme123 wrote:
             | > Most of us choose to drive a car that just works, and
             | take it to a mechanic when it doesn't, rather than buying
             | one that requires and rewards tinkering.
             | 
             | You can also bring your Linux machine to the mechanic. The
             | only difference is that we linux users are also the
             | mechanics.
             | 
             | My mother only wants a browser and a mail client, maybe a
             | word processor from time to time. I installed Fedora, and
             | the thing is still working after 5 years or so. I ssh into
             | the thing once a month to do a "dnf update", she doesn't
             | even notice. After initial setup, no more tinkering ever
             | needed.
        
               | whatevaa wrote:
               | Because you maintain it for her.
        
           | throwaway2046 wrote:
           | It should be a choice, not a requirement. With Windows you
           | can get your work done without knowing much about Windows
           | itself, but with Linux you're forced to understand every
           | level of the entire OS so you can debug it first and then
           | maybe get your work done. For an OS built around user freedom
           | Linux sure doesn't give its users much choice on how to use
           | it.
        
         | simion314 wrote:
         | Windows is worse , just latest example: a USB WiFi antenna for
         | the PC, on Linux it just works, on Windows you need either to
         | buy a CD drive to install the drivers - not sure if your
         | grandma can buy a cd drive, install it and install drivers. On
         | Linux it just works.
         | 
         | People like buy a computer and use whatever is on it, they
         | can't manage to install windows, the drivers needed for the
         | hardware, I had to setup emails, or other online accounts for
         | this kind of people so give them a preinstalled Linux and they
         | should manage,.
        
           | jama211 wrote:
           | You would never use the cd lol, it would auto install - and
           | if it didn't you'd download the drivers online though if it's
           | such a piece of junk as to need that then it's a junk piece
           | of hardware anyway.
        
             | redeeman wrote:
             | hardware that doesnt have builtin drivers to windows are a
             | piece of junk? i think you'll find thats most hardware then
        
               | leptons wrote:
               | You are hilariously wrong. Seriously, what century are
               | you living in? It's been a _very long time_ since I had
               | to install a specific driver for any piece of hardware on
               | Windows, and I go through _a lot of hardware_. Every
               | piece of hardware I had is automatically installed and
               | configured without any hassle whatsoever.
        
             | simion314 wrote:
             | >You would never use the cd lol, it would auto install -
             | and if it didn't you'd download the drivers online though
             | if it's such a piece of junk as to need that then it's a
             | junk piece of hardware anyway.
             | 
             | Sure, sure , so all hardware that does not autoinstall on
             | Windows directly without a driver or internet is junk.
             | AFAIK Windows can't install the correct nvidia or AMD
             | drivers and you need to use special steps to prepare a
             | windows install USB since the installer for some reason
             | starts from the stick but doe's not have the drivers to
             | complete the installation from the stick
        
           | whatevaa wrote:
           | Nowadays these things contain a hidden storage partition to
           | install a driver.
        
         | ErroneousBosh wrote:
         | Linux is a lot more user-friendly than Windows, with generally
         | useful error messages when things go wrong.
         | 
         | How do you fix Windows when it breaks every couple of weeks and
         | the only information you get is a bright blue screen with a
         | couple of lines of hexadecimal on it?
        
           | jama211 wrote:
           | I don't think you've used windows in 20 years by the sounds
           | of it
        
           | CamperBob2 wrote:
           | You run memtest86 to rule out a RAM issue, then check with
           | your system reseller or mobo vendor for BIOS mitigations for
           | the latest round of Intel CPU bugs. If you are able to rule
           | out the RAM and CPU, try a different power supply. Failing
           | that, the motherboard itself may be causing the issue.
           | 
           | Unfortunately there are few good ways to narrow down
           | intermittent hardware failures (which is what you are
           | experiencing) beyond these common steps.
        
         | jama211 wrote:
         | Well said. There's a lot of angry comments below but it's all
         | people who don't want to deal with these hard truths.
        
         | mkozlows wrote:
         | What's funny is, the author is only having these questions
         | because they chose a wacky Arch-based ultra-techie distro that
         | I'd never even heard of.
         | 
         | If they'd just installed normal Ubuntu or Fedora, they wouldn't
         | even know what a bootloader was, and they'd just use whatever
         | desktop environment (probably GNOME, maybe KDE) came with it.
        
           | yoyohello13 wrote:
           | For real. I should write a blog post about my expierience but
           | it would only be like 2 sentences. "Hey! I switched to Linux.
           | I bought a desktop from System76 and it all just worked."
        
         | barbs wrote:
         | My Dad managed to install linux (Q4OS) on his computer in a
         | dual-boot setup, having never even touched Linux before. He
         | hasn't asked me for help once, whereas historically I've been
         | his tech support when he was running Windows. He's loving the
         | linux experience.
         | 
         | I believe if my Dad is able to install, use and benefit from
         | Linux, anyone can.
        
       | rubymamis wrote:
       | There's no soul in major OSes these days - Windows is a big
       | bloatware and macOS's aesthetics is the result of design for the
       | sake of the design instead of any practical use. No wonder we're
       | seeing this sentiment for an alternative growing.
        
       | Kapura wrote:
       | I installed a dual boot on my gaming machine last year when the
       | Win10 support ended, and I have also had basically no issues.
       | Something something HDR in certain video games is the biggest
       | complaint I have, which is not all that important and will be
       | higher priority for developers in future as more gamers leave the
       | sinking Windows ship.
       | 
       | Microsoft has really, really fucked up windows 11, and ultimately
       | abandoning it is the only recourse the consumers have.
        
       | greenavocado wrote:
       | If you need Windows these days just install virt-manager and load
       | the version of Windows you need.
       | 
       | It's really fast and lightweight (my laptop stays cold at idle
       | while running the Windows VMs) with all the HV enlightenments for
       | good computational efficiency.
       | 
       | Installing and using the virtio drivers is key for many useful
       | features such as memory ballooning, fast networking with low
       | computational overhead, and virtiofs which is used to mount a
       | virtual drive in the Windows guest in a way that it's not a
       | "network" drive.
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | How does this work compared to VirtualBox?
        
       | iwanttocomment wrote:
       | I hadn't run desktop Linux in several years now. (I've run it
       | server-side for decades.)
       | 
       | Out of the increasingly loud outpouring of support for desktop
       | Linux over the past year, I went ahead and installed some distros
       | to get back in on the action. I came to four conclusions:
       | 
       | 1) You can play games on desktop Linux now other than Tux Racer.
       | Cool!
       | 
       | 2) There's less weird X11-wrangling. Thank god.
       | 
       | 3) It's otherwise still pretty much the desktop Linux I've always
       | known and felt mildly annoyed by.
       | 
       | 4) The current versions of Windows and macOS have gotten to be so
       | unbelievably annoying for no good reason that a mildly improved
       | desktop Linux now actually seems far less annoying than the
       | mainstream options do.
       | 
       | Good job, Microsoft and Apple, for giving us the year of
       | retreating in disgust to the Linux desktop.
        
         | einpoklum wrote:
         | ... and considering the GTK file picker we still have to live
         | with, that's saying something.
        
           | bigyabai wrote:
           | File pickers are an XDG standard, you can replace it whenever
           | you want: https://flatpak.github.io/xdg-desktop-
           | portal/docs/doc-org.fr...
        
       | fpauser wrote:
       | I switched from Windows to Linux ~20 years ago because and never
       | came back to Windows. First years I used Ubuntu and experimented
       | with Xubuntu, Lubuntu etc. Later went to Fedora Linux with Gnome
       | Desktop which is still my preferred Linux Distribution. Nice to
       | see so many people thinking about free and open alternatives to
       | big tech!
        
         | kbrkbr wrote:
         | I switched 25 years ago.
         | 
         | Still, every computer I buy comes with Microsoft tax and their
         | OS preinstalled. In all these years I always left a small
         | Windows partition, in case I need it. Never booted it.
        
       | 0xperke wrote:
       | For all who switched to Linux: which distro did you choose and
       | why?
       | 
       | Fedora: wanted to have the newest kernel and updates due to new
       | hardware - so far i am really satisfied; the only issue i have is
       | that the printer does not work everytime... as a workaround i
       | print with my iphone instead.
        
         | while_true_ wrote:
         | Debian stable with KDE Plasma. Plasma is similar in feel to Win
         | 10, but far more customizable. It's the first Linux desktop
         | I've used that feels professional and polished. Short video:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ6bojRSIw0
        
         | karussell wrote:
         | The printer also was my reason I picked Ubuntu over Arch /
         | Endeavour OS :)
         | 
         | I don't want to tweak hours and Ubuntu was so far always a no
         | brainer. At some point, probably 5 years ago after they
         | switched to GNOME Shell, I even stopped switching the desktop
         | manager and kept using the default one.
        
         | vlod wrote:
         | PopOS is what I've picked (using it ~6 years). Their new
         | distribution is called Cosmic (Wayland). They've moved away
         | from Gnome to a rust based Iced.
        
         | undyingtrillion wrote:
         | I also use Fedora only because it seems like Debian's nvidia
         | driver installation is a big pain, Fedora made it as easy as
         | Ubuntu.
        
         | davemo wrote:
         | I swapped to Bazzite on my gaming rig (5800x3D, 64gb DDR4, 4080
         | Super 16gb) and it's been fantastic. I tried going with Omarchy
         | for a bit to try and have that machine do double duty as a
         | dev/gaming machine, but I felt like the gaming experience on
         | Omarchy is a second-class citizen compared to what the Bazzite
         | experience is optimizing for, and I realized that the Hyprland
         | setup and tiling window manager adds a lot more friction for my
         | normal gaming needs. (I just want to have a few Path of Exile 2
         | windows open to tab between while gaming, and the tiling window
         | setup in Omarchy had me hitting more hiccups between fullscreen
         | and windowed mode than I care to troubleshoot on my gaming
         | rig).
         | 
         | Immutability in OS updates is also something I didn't know I
         | needed until I experienced it on Bazzite; pretty advantageous
         | as a gamer using Linux with nVidia hardware these days.
         | 
         | This is my second go around on Bazzite, YMMV but I opted for
         | Gnome over KDE this time and have had zero issues running the
         | games I am into (WoW, PoE2) and no funky window management
         | issues that I seemed to run into with KDE.
         | 
         | I'm considering a move to a Framework machine in the very near
         | future, and still need to settle on a distro for dev; most of
         | that is done on an M3 Max Macbook these days.
        
         | cagey wrote:
         | Pop!OS (22.04) nearly 2 years ago, after having read generally
         | favorable reviews on HN and getting a sense of
         | "monernity/stability/mainstream'ness of Ubuntu without snap and
         | with closer-to-leading-edge kernels" on an Asus Vivobook 17 (my
         | daily personal/WFH driver).
         | 
         | Later (on repurposed low-spec Chromebooks, then on newer
         | deployments just because I came to like it) Crunchbang++ (12,
         | then 13) which is Debian-based.
         | 
         | I avoid printing like the plague, and keep a long-remaining-AUE
         | Chromebook around almost solely for its ability to WiFi-print
         | to our aging Brother laser printer.
        
         | unethical_ban wrote:
         | CachyOS KDE. My first time using Arch family after meant years
         | of Debian and some Fedora. Honestly fedora is great, and I
         | wanted to try something new.
         | 
         | You know what's fun? Being able to change system fonts, which
         | you can't do on Windows.
         | 
         | I'm using the IBM Plex fonts and they are so good looking.
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | edit: after "many" years.
           | 
           | What are peoples' thoughts on which style of distro is best
           | to hand over to a non-techie user for the least amount of
           | hand-holding?
           | 
           | I re-install so much that I don't know how easy it is, or how
           | the distros prompt, when something like Debian Stable or
           | Fedora need to update to the next version. With Arch, you
           | constantly get the "updates ready" and it is always fresh.
        
         | dmit wrote:
         | NixOS. Had prior Linux experience, so wasn't too worried about
         | learning multiple new major paradigms in parallel. Also had
         | been running a lil' NixOS server for half a year before that,
         | so I could carry over most of my configuration.nix from there,
         | and also the safe feeling of knowing that if I do mess up
         | stuff, I could with very high probability just reboot to a
         | previous generation and have everything back to working exactly
         | the same as before.
         | 
         | Edit: the two configuration.nixen has since been merged in a
         | single dotfiles repo, which also covers my Macbook via
         | https://nix-darwin.org.
        
         | lunar_rover wrote:
         | Started with Debian 10 GNOME, switched to KDE 5 for its
         | features, went back because of the design issues(KDE 6 is much
         | better). After a few years I switched and settled on Fedora
         | Silverblue.
         | 
         | With rpm-ostree automatic updates are so reliable it's a set
         | and forget experience.
        
         | mvdtnz wrote:
         | Fedora 43 with KDE. It's almost perfect.
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | Gentoo with KDE plasma, because I can :)
         | 
         | I don't really recommend this route, but I will say that the
         | experience has been pretty great. Once setup the regular
         | maintenance is just boring update commands. Most days, it's a
         | less than 1 minute affair to get everything compiled and up to
         | date.
         | 
         | Arch would be a pretty equivalent experience as would be using
         | bin packages with gentoo.
        
         | nineteen999 wrote:
         | I guess i've never really "switched" - I've always used Linux
         | desktops together with Windows desktops - each to the strengths
         | that they are good at it. And this goes back to the late
         | 1990's. There are times I've used more than the other.
         | 
         | But yes Fedora - I have traditionally worked on "Enterprise"
         | Linux where RHEL is the standard, so I track Fedora for
         | bleeding edge development work and target EL for "production".
         | 
         | Don't get me wrong I'm just as comfortable on Debian systems or
         | even building Linux-from-scratch type systems but I really
         | don't have a day to day use case for Linux distributions
         | outside of Fedora/Redhat, they cover all my needs.
        
         | surgical_fire wrote:
         | Mint because I am a filthy casual. I love Mint. It has been
         | smooth sailing for the past 4 years running it on a 2019 Dell
         | X5. Part of why I lack any motivation to get a new machine is
         | because it still runs very smooth with Mint.
         | 
         | I plan on getting a new machine in the near future. Then I'll
         | use my old Dell as a testing ground for other Distros. Was
         | thinking of testing Tumbleweed first.
        
           | leptons wrote:
           | I started with Ubuntu but had some problems installing
           | software. Then I moved to Mint and it stuck with me. I
           | converted 6 virtual machines from Windows to Mint Linux, and
           | it's been great.
           | 
           | I then moved my main server that runs the VMs from Windows to
           | Linux Mint, and that went far better than expected, basically
           | no problems at all. I had two LSI x8 SAS RAID cards, each
           | running an 8 disk RAID 10 array. Moving over to Linux there
           | was nothing to do except plug them in, and they just worked.
           | No drivers to install. I did have to find a copy of the
           | management software, but that runs exactly the same as it did
           | on Windows.
           | 
           | The last VM I have is running a somewhat complex IIS web
           | server setup that I have to move over to Linux, and I haven't
           | had the time to dig in on that yet, but I will do it this
           | year.
           | 
           | The last system I have on Windows is my laptop/workstation.
           | It doesn't behave that well on Linux with my 3 displayport
           | monitors, and a few other things. I have it dual-booting to
           | Mint, so I will keep trying. There's really not much software
           | that I need that only runs on Windows (I do not play any
           | games).
        
             | surgical_fire wrote:
             | > There's really not much software that I need that only
             | runs on Windows (I do not play any games).
             | 
             | This is the main barrier for most people, I reckon.
             | 
             | I mostly play on consoles nowadays, but I recognize that
             | games are important as they bring the masses. If gaming on
             | Linux becomes important, the rest will follow.
        
         | kstenerud wrote:
         | Kubuntu. I wanted the compatibility of Ubuntu, but not the
         | horrible UI.
         | 
         | It's not without its problems, though:
         | 
         | Snaps completely bork the system, so you need to remove snap
         | entirely on Kubuntu (good riddance anyway - snaps are a
         | plague).
         | 
         | Idle suspend is flaky. Sometimes it won't come back. Better to
         | just disable it.
         | 
         | Sometimes the machine just freezes up. Either it completely
         | freezes, or the mouse slows down to 1fps with the entire
         | movement queued up (move the mouse and it'll go exactly where
         | you told it to, over 2-3 minutes).
         | 
         | WIFI was a nightmare, but I switched to ethernet so it's not an
         | issue for me anymore (desktop machine).
         | 
         | Bluetooth is iffy. I just switched to wired speakers.
         | 
         | On the plus side, AI works great!
        
         | Jigsy wrote:
         | Originally started with Xubuntu 22.04, but switched to Mint at
         | the start of March last year since it (Xubuntu) was going to
         | EoL.
         | 
         | Mint does everything I need it to, so there's no need for me to
         | hop.
        
         | BrenBarn wrote:
         | I switched fully to Linux about four years ago. I chose
         | Kubuntu. I had previously used Linux Mint for quite a while,
         | but on a computer that wasn't my main one. I downloaded some
         | ISOs and tried out a few distros in VMs.
         | 
         | I definitely find KDE the most appealing. I'm one of these
         | people who feels like desktop UI pretty much peaked around
         | Win98 or Win2000, and KDE more or less lets me have that
         | experience. It's customizable and works well. It has occasional
         | problems and annoyances, but over time I find they're
         | comparable in magnitude to what I had with Windows.
         | 
         | It always seems like Ubuntu has the best compatibility with
         | stuff overall, in the sense that anything that has a Linux
         | version will almost always explicitly say they support Ubuntu.
         | I looked at some other KDE-based distros but Kubuntu seemed
         | like the safest choice. I had used Linux Mint KDE in the past
         | and was bummed to see it go away; if that still existed I might
         | well have chosen it.
         | 
         | Notably, I had attempted to switch to Linux several years
         | before (around 2014), but wound up going back to Windows
         | because I just encountered too many gotchas. But things were
         | much smoother this time. The main reason I switched was because
         | I felt Windows 10 was getting too intrusive and user-hostile,
         | and also no longer made it easy for me to get the "Windows
         | classic" look and feel that I wanted. I'm glad I switched when
         | I did, because since then those trends have become even more
         | pronounced; I'd probably be pulling my hair out if I were using
         | Windows now. I still have a Win10 VM for situations where I
         | need Windows, but I rarely use it.
        
         | lpcvoid wrote:
         | Debian. Rock solid, dependable. If you need new features, use
         | backports.
        
         | MrDresden wrote:
         | Switched back in 2009 and back then Ubuntu was the easiest to
         | get running.
         | 
         | And I've stuck with it ever since while trying Fedora, Arch and
         | a few others along the way.
         | 
         | I guess it just works for me, know my way around the tooling
         | and can use that knowledge on my Debian servers.
        
       | wnevets wrote:
       | WSL and Windows Terminal has done a fantastic job at delaying my
       | move to Linux as my primary desktop but Microsoft seems hellbent
       | on ruining Windows.
        
         | nchmy wrote:
         | This was my stance for the past couple years, but I moved to
         | Linux (PopOS) 3 months ago because wsl2 kept crashing from OOM
         | (even though I had allocated excess ram). I kept having to
         | manually manage my memory usage by choosing which apps,
         | containers etc to run.
         | 
         | There's nuisances in popos, but I am generally thrilled.
        
           | Joel_Mckay wrote:
           | Even Microsoft often doesn't use its own servers for critical
           | infrastructure.
           | 
           | It is a fools errand. =3
        
       | lifetimerubyist wrote:
       | I replaced Windows with Linux about 6 months ago. Then I ran into
       | a game I really wanted to play but it didn't run well with Proton
       | (not kernel anti-cheat, just bad performance) after all the
       | tweaks so I just reserved to dual booting with Windows 10.
       | 
       | After not using Windows for so long, I came to realize that
       | Windows is just as much a mess as Linux just in different ways.
       | You get used to the quirks so you don't notice them after a while
       | but they are definitely there.
       | 
       |  _Most_ of my games work just fine or even better on Linux. Some
       | of my older games don't even work on Windows that work perfectly
       | under Wine /Proton which is truely miraculous. The Wine team and
       | Valve have made some incredible contributions to the preservation
       | of games on PC, it can't be understated.
       | 
       | So I daily drive Linux and play those handful of games on
       | Windows, and I'll probably stay this way for now and try the
       | proton situation again in a few years.
        
         | surgical_fire wrote:
         | > Then I ran into a game I really wanted to play but it didn't
         | run well with Proton
         | 
         | Out of curiosity, which game?
         | 
         | I promise I am not asking as a gotcha. Just genuinely curious.
         | 
         | I don't play many new games on PC (normally I play recent games
         | on consoles). What I play on PC is older/niche games.
         | 
         | I have a couple of oddballs that I could not make work on
         | Proton. Others had weird issues that got fixed over time.
         | 
         | Sometimes there is a fix, such as fiddling with different
         | Proton versions, etc. Lutris makes this somewhat
         | straightforward.
        
       | nikanj wrote:
       | Do any of the main-stream Linux installers make any attempt at
       | bringing over your files?
       | 
       | I have seen so many "anyone can switch to Linux" articles, and
       | none of them seem to mention "all of your files are going to be
       | utterly lost"
        
         | hackyhacky wrote:
         | This is a non-issue if your files are stored in a partition
         | separate from your OS, and is infeasible otherwise.
         | 
         | * If you have a separate partition, you can replace your OS and
         | your file remain untouched.
         | 
         | * If you don't have a separate partition, your OS and your
         | files will be replaced by the Linux installation. The only way
         | to preserve your files is to copy to some external media before
         | installation. Even if the Linux installer could retain files
         | while reformatting a partition (which might be technically
         | feasible), it would have no way of knowing _which_ files to
         | retain: the user could easily keep important files in arbitrary
         | directories, not just in their designated C:\User\Patrick
         | directory, and they would be understandably irate if the
         | installer promised to keep files but didn 't. To say nothing of
         | adding complications of copying files that Windows has pushed
         | to OneDrive.
        
           | nikanj wrote:
           | > This is a non-issue if your files are stored in a partition
           | separate from your OS, and is infeasible otherwise.
           | 
           | That is one of the biggest ifs of 2026. I don't think any
           | major PC laptop vendor has ever sold consumer laptops with
           | anything but one-big-partition layout. For the average user,
           | their files are not stored in any partition, they are stored
           | "right there on my desktop, with a separate folder for photos
           | and bills"
        
         | BoredPositron wrote:
         | What desktop OS offers file migration from a different desktop
         | OS during installation on the same machine? Windows and macOS
         | definelty not...
        
           | nikanj wrote:
           | Windows definitely keeps your files right there in your
           | Desktop / Documents folder when you update from Windows 10 to
           | Windows 11.
           | 
           | Like it or not, Aunt Clara is going to expect the same when
           | she "upgrades" to Ubuntu.
        
             | BoredPositron wrote:
             | Can I interest you in some new goal posts right over there?
        
         | hxugufjfjf wrote:
         | What files? Where would the files be originally for this to be
         | a concern? I've switched OS many times but I don't think I've
         | ever thought about moving any files.
        
       | GeoAtreides wrote:
       | >I picked CachyOS rather than a better-known distro like Ubuntu
       | because it's optimized for modern hardware,
       | 
       | >First challenge: My mouse buttons don't work. I can move the
       | cursor, but can't click on anything.
       | 
       | Maybe should've picked Ubuntu? I suspect this is the Linus (tech
       | tips, not Torvalds) strategy of picking up an obscure distro for
       | content purposes. Can't really have an article if everything just
       | works, right
        
         | fumeux_fume wrote:
         | Yeah, if the goal of the article was to convince Windows users
         | to switch to Linux then Ubuntu would provide as frictionless an
         | install as Windows. Since the author chooses CachyOS, of course
         | there's going to be some important steps during installation
         | that need to be handled with some forethought and extra
         | software to handle all hardware issues. After all, CachyOS is
         | based on Arch Linux and inherits it's minimal mindset. But the
         | article about switching from Windows to Ubuntu has been already
         | written a thousand times.
        
         | MarsIronPI wrote:
         | I don't think PopOS could be called "obscure". At the time that
         | the LTT video came out, PopOS and Manjaro (IIRC) were _the_
         | distros to game on, if you wanted up-to-date OOTB working
         | drivers.
        
         | mkozlows wrote:
         | I suspect they sincerely picked CachyOS because they read
         | people advocating for it, and were convinced by the advocacy.
         | People advocate all kinds of distros, and all of them except
         | the one I advocate are bad choices.
        
         | littlestymaar wrote:
         | Ubuntu's UI isn't particulates intuitive for people coming from
         | Windows anymore (it hasn't been for the past 13 years tbf).
         | 
         | Mint is the best default to advise to someone switching to
         | Linux (it's mostly Ubuntu under the hood, but without the snap
         | nonsense and with a less imaginative UI).
        
           | jauntywundrkind wrote:
           | I really struggle when folks recommend a distro that is only
           | now getting itself unstuck from a decade++ of inaction,
           | starting an advance that other distros have been up to for
           | decades.
           | 
           | Starting people out on a dinosaur has some advantages yes but
           | personally I think it's malpractice, setting users up to have
           | to make major painful shifts in the future to update all the
           | derelict knowledge they gain.
           | https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=449033
        
         | dminik wrote:
         | There's this reply in the comments from the author.
         | 
         | > Nah, it's a problem with this particular mouse in X and
         | Wayland and it's been seen on Fedora and OpenSuse almost since
         | the mouse came out. Not a Cachy issue, a nonstandard USB HID
         | implementation by the vendor
         | 
         | Tbh, I don't even know what a distro would have to do to break
         | this.
        
       | karussell wrote:
       | If only I could use recent Apple hardware with Linux :)
       | 
       | A year ago I was about to switch from Linux to Mac for that
       | reason after 25 years using Linux (although I really don't like
       | MacOS). But then Apple released their Glassy OS and so I just
       | bought a used Lenovo for 300EUR with 1 year warranty ...
        
       | neko_ranger wrote:
       | this is the tech equivalent of "I'm a strong, independent nerd
       | and I don't need no windows"
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | My Linux evenings usually appear 6 months down the road. It's the
       | big updates that cause system breakdowns. This is like saying I
       | got married in November and everything is going great. Far too
       | early to know how far your patience will be tested before you
       | leave.
        
         | timbit42 wrote:
         | In my experience, it's not so much the updates as the upgrades
         | but even upgrades are smooth with Linux Mint.
        
       | loehnsberg wrote:
       | Why Bedrock? Get the kids a Steam Deck, Prism Launcher, open a
       | local server and boom :) It's not iOS convenience but they'll
       | sure love to tinker with all the mods you can install.
        
       | browningstreet wrote:
       | I was watching the Lenovo CES keynote and couldn't believe how
       | hard they were selling Qira on Lenovo computers and Motorola
       | phones. All the major players have platform specific Windows
       | features that can't possibly meet their success criteria in terms
       | of ROI. Lenovo isn't Apple or Google or Microsoft, and even the
       | latter two have trouble selling fully integrated platform
       | services on hardware.
       | 
       | All this time, money, dev energy, and marketing to keep trying to
       | find a magical bean in their stalk and they still just won't
       | support open hardware and open source OSes with vigor.
       | 
       | Apple people tend to buy Apple products generation over
       | generation, and none of the Windows hardware manufacturers are
       | even close to having that rep. Even in this thread people are
       | recommending Gen 1 Thinkpads, but Lenovo's heart really isn't in
       | it across the board. Dell went simple with the revived XPS but
       | the release versions don't offer Linux in the BYO order flow.
       | 
       | And no, I don't think Framework is good enough.
        
         | ethersteeds wrote:
         | Gotta be doing something, elsewise it's layoffs for your
         | business unit
        
           | browningstreet wrote:
           | The "do something" is support open hardware, sell more
           | machines, provision fewer product variations.
           | 
           | I get that these are the immovable objects and sacred cows of
           | the management ranks ..new executives need to try, try, try
           | again. All these features just sit in the "update" queue
           | advertising their uselessness, and eventually highlight their
           | abandonment.
        
       | modeless wrote:
       | > My goal here is to see how far I can get using Linux as my main
       | OS without spending a ton of time futzing with it
       | 
       | > First challenge: My mouse buttons don't work. [...] Not a major
       | issue; I can get around fine with just the keyboard.
       | 
       | > Then I remember that my root partition is only 100GB. I reboot
       | back into the Cachy live image and use the Parted utility to
       | increase it to 1TB, then make a second btrfs partition in the
       | remaining space.
       | 
       | I don't think the goal was achieved here. For most people it
       | still takes some dedication and a lot of computer knowledge to
       | switch successfully.
       | 
       | But I expect things to continue to improve now that Valve has
       | solved the single major blocker for a large chunk of people, that
       | being running their back catalog of games. It's an amazing gift
       | to the community that we should all be very thankful for.
        
       | blipvert wrote:
       | Not a desktop thing (digital out-of-home signage) but we're
       | dropping Windows like it's flaming dogshit. Minimal Linux install
       | with X, Blackbox and player software (and management/monitoring
       | stuff obvs) on all new assets and the thousands of extant ones
       | will get replaced as soon as feasible.
        
       | rrgok wrote:
       | I came back to Windows when Windows 10 came out and everything is
       | going great too.
       | 
       | Everything just works. Snappy. Professional awesome native tools
       | (Office, Affinity series, Directory Opus, Visual Studio,
       | AutoHotkey,...)
        
       | mongrelion wrote:
       | I ran Archlinux as my main driver on both PC and Laptop for more
       | than a decade but after having the opportunity to use a Windows
       | machine with WSL and eventually WSL2, I felt like I had access to
       | the best of both worlds: a Linux terminal for development (bash +
       | tmux + vim, now bash + zellij + neovim) without the hassle of
       | updates breaking things every few months and a out-of-the-box
       | native gaming experience.
       | 
       | But with the enshitification of Windows (first all the spam and
       | ads on the Start menu, then Microsoft forcing you to have an
       | account to be able to use the machine and the expensive license
       | for Windows Professional if you want access to Hyper-V, which I
       | did), I did some research, tried a few new distros (Manjaro,
       | Bazzite and CachyOS) and settled for CachyOS (gaming support was
       | the main driver, based on Archlinux was secondary).
       | 
       | I do everything I did on Windows and some more: all the terminal
       | stuff plus browsing, CAD modeling, 3D printing / slicing, Office
       | stuff... I miss nothing. No more double partition to boot into
       | Windows when I want to game.
       | 
       | My RX 9070 XT runs smoothly with no driver issues whatsoever. I
       | even have tested the waters running some LLMs with LM Studio and
       | that also worked out of the box.
       | 
       | The only thing that has been a bit meh are Teams and Slack and I
       | believe that has to do with the fact that I ran them in Firefox.
       | Once I ran Slack on Chromium, noise canceling was again
       | available.
       | 
       | 2009 was the year of Linux on desktop for me. 17 years later,
       | after going back and forth between macOS and Windows, it feels
       | good to be back home.
       | 
       | One last note in my random ramble is that I do not have as much
       | spare time as before, and I had heard this from other people back
       | in the day whenever I'd say I ran Archlinux on my machines, so I
       | am going to repeat what others have said to me: it's really nice
       | to not have to worry about much, be able to sit down and get
       | productive right away. To me, CachyOS and KDE have made that idea
       | my actual experience and for that I am grateful.
        
         | timbit42 wrote:
         | > without the hassle of updates breaking things every few
         | months
         | 
         | That's not so much a Linux issue as an Arch issue.
        
       | ant6n wrote:
       | We use OneDrive/Teams/Office365 at work. I think this will be
       | difficult with Linux. Doable with Mac.
       | 
       | In think MacBook Air + Microsoft365 may be the cheapest startup
       | IT setup that doesn't require windows itself.
        
         | gwbas1c wrote:
         | I'm mostly happy with OneDrive on Mac. I lead a major
         | competitor to OneDrive back in the day, so that's saying a lot.
         | 
         | I still have to restart it from time to time, though.
        
         | BoredPositron wrote:
         | You use your private hardware at work?
        
       | tobadzistsini wrote:
       | Article reads like an anti-Linux post because the author goes on
       | about, "muh mouse buttons" and "how many desktop environments?"
       | Screw that, do something simple like Ubuntu that just works
       | without decision paralysis. The whole piece reads like, "Linux is
       | good if you're smart so git gud" esp. since he makes a point of
       | crowing how it's Arch-based.
        
       | Neil44 wrote:
       | I switched my main everyday machine to Ubuntu last May, no
       | regrets, it's a superior experience day to day.
        
       | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
       | > I picked CachyOS rather than a better-known distro like Ubuntu
       | because it's optimized for modern hardware
       | 
       | So this isn't a usual comparison, as the vast majority of users
       | will choose Ubuntu, Fedora, or Mint. CachyOS is also a new
       | distro, meaning it won't last long (most distributions, like
       | small businesses, only last a few years). It's also Arch-based,
       | meaning the user is going to get constant updates, which leads to
       | problems. Finally, Cachy is optimized for speed and security, not
       | hardware.
       | 
       | > First challenge: My mouse buttons don't work. I can move the
       | cursor, but can't click on anything. I try plugging in a mouse
       | (without unplugging the first one), same deal. Not a major issue;
       | I can get around fine with just the keyboard
       | 
       | And this is where I stop reading
        
         | osamagirl69 wrote:
         | If you hold out for a few more paragraphs until he gets past
         | the installer there is closure:
         | 
         | The issue is that he was using an obscure gaming mouse, and the
         | solution was to use a different mouse.
        
       | secondcoming wrote:
       | It's kind of concerning to me that Ubuntu has started paywalling
       | some package updates behind Ubuntu Pro. Thinking of switching to
       | Debian.
        
       | Dwedit wrote:
       | I can't switch to Linux because I am so dependent on Visual
       | Studio.
        
       | jama211 wrote:
       | "Linux is so easy and great, my mouse didn't even work and I have
       | it unplugged to this day, and I can't even play minecraft!" - I
       | use every OS and have arch on my gaming pc (dual booted I'll
       | admit), but this is both one of the worst articles advocating for
       | desktop Linux and one of the best at the same time, because it
       | shows the harsh truth a lot of people experience and us Linux
       | users don't even want to admit exists.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | I agree. Yet another "Linux is great! The only issues I had
         | were A, B, C, D, E...".
         | 
         | I also use every OS and Windows 11 is still the most hassle
         | free and reliable (at least if you install the IoT version
         | using Rufus). I _still_ have to use X because Wayland has a
         | couple of remaining issues. Also most distros inexplicably use
         | Gnome despite KDE being significantly better. Why?
        
           | lunar_rover wrote:
           | KDE 5 wasn't much better than GNOME 3, it's the main reason
           | behind GNOME default I think. It's only til KDE 6 they got
           | back up on their feet and solved the most egregious design
           | issues, many more still linger.
           | 
           | GNOME/Red Hat in a long time is the only one even trying to
           | figure out a solution for some of the longstanding issues
           | like application distribution and sandboxing. Those rant
           | articles about GNOME unfortunately went nowhere since the
           | other desktops were all stuck. KDE Discover eventually
           | supported Flatpak which was advocated by GNOME for years,
           | SteamOS using Flatpak ended up being the decisive push.
           | 
           | GNOME having better enterprise support can be another factor.
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | _" Windows is great... you only need to... install the IoT
           | version using Rufus"_
           | 
           | Oh and tweak 24 settings with these powershell scripts, and
           | better run them after every update to ensure they weren't
           | changed back on purpose. Otherwise, _totally_ hassle free.
        
             | IshKebab wrote:
             | Nope. I tweaked _one_ setting via the GUI (to get the
             | taskbar back to the left where it rightfully belongs).
             | Literally everything else I 've left as-is. The IoT edition
             | doesn't come with any bloatware and Rufus does a couple of
             | other tweaks automatically.
        
       | christkv wrote:
       | Im pretty happy with bazzite after getting used to the atomic
       | fedora underpinning and how it changes the way I have to organize
       | and install some stuff
        
       | 999900000999 wrote:
       | It's a catch 22.
       | 
       | The way to make Linux easy to use is basically just to pre-
       | install it and ensure the hardware is compatible.
       | 
       | System 76 does this, and charges 3x as much as other OEMs.
       | 
       | At this point if I'm a consumer ohh Linux is 3x the price.
       | 
       | If you install Linux on a refurbished Thinkpad, most of the time
       | you can get something very nice for 500$ or less.
       | 
       | I often dream, if I had money, of buying and refurbishing
       | hundreds of laptops per year. Installing Linux and giving them
       | out.
       | 
       | Would be better than cities handing out Chromebooks.
        
         | lpcvoid wrote:
         | If I buy a laptop from Lenovo today, buying it without an OS or
         | with Linux is cheaper than Windows.
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | I noticed the blog post said nothing about working with
       | documents, i.e. the office suite the poster was using. Or - maybe
       | he wasn't at all? I wonder. Same goes for email, although perhaps
       | he was just using webmail.
        
         | saltmate wrote:
         | Have you ever heard of Thunderbird? There's to my knowledge no
         | other mail client besides maybe mutt that offers more features
         | and flexibility. For office, LibreOffice doesn't feel very
         | modern but is capable of a lot of things.
        
       | DetectDefect wrote:
       | On the desktop. Laptop/mobile devices still significantly suffer
       | under Linux compared to proprietary operating systems. The author
       | even admits: "Tried getting Linux on my laptop over Christmas.
       | Didn't work." We have a lot more work remaining to claim any sort
       | of victory.
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | My experience:
       | 
       | I came from windows to MacOS so despite what folks bemoan about
       | MacOS ... I still love it and it is problem free enough that I
       | don't feel the need to do the lifting to go to Linux.
       | 
       | I think that's a common thing for those of who maybe haven't
       | ridden MacOS for so long.
       | 
       | Windows for me is on a whole several levels of worse when I have
       | to dive back into it. Windows feels like an OS POINTED AT ME
       | rather than for me.
        
         | bigyabai wrote:
         | > it is problem free _enough_
         | 
         | The money's paw curls.
         | 
         | I used to love macOS, back in the Mojave days. You could run
         | almost anything you wanted, and _still_ get work done on a
         | decently made machine. Those were the days when the grass truly
         | felt greener to me, macOS for creative work simply annihilated
         | any other option on the table.
         | 
         | Then Catalina stripped out 32-bit compatibility, ruining my
         | Ableton Live project folder and Steam library. And Big Sur
         | removed the sleek, professional-looking UI that I loved.
         | Apparently Tahoe is infecting it with the glass disease, but
         | I've long since migrated to Bitwig and Steam on Linux.
         | 
         | macOS taught me, ultimately, that any feature you take for
         | granted can be removed to fulfill someone's OKR.
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | Yeah I mean that's the software life right?
           | 
           | You use the platform you use ... until it doesn't work for
           | you. I did that for Windows and now I'm on MacOS. Maybe one
           | day Linux, maybe I pick a flavor there that doesn't work for
           | me eventually.
        
           | Capricorn2481 wrote:
           | Ableton supports 64 bit. How did that ruin your projects?
        
       | arbuge wrote:
       | Is there a secure and good replacement for OneDrive on Linux?
        
         | Joel_Mckay wrote:
         | In general, people just use noIP home router VPN, ssh/sftp host
         | on LAN, and a sshfs client on their iOS/Android device or
         | MacOS/Windows/Linux. It will look like any other network shared
         | drive in the native OS.
         | 
         | For paid services, there are also native Dropbox client support
         | in MATE, Ubuntu, or Mint desktop file managers etc.
         | 
         | iOS sftp:
         | 
         | https://www.photosync-app.com/home
         | 
         | Android sftp:
         | 
         | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.bukacek.fil...
         | 
         | Practically speaking, I often recommend dual booting from 2 ssd
         | drives for windows and Linux. There are just some commercial
         | software/games that can't run properly within a linux
         | environment (programs like Wine do allow running some Windows
         | native programs, but YMMV.)
         | 
         | https://www.linuxmint.com/ or
         | https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop is a great starter OS.
         | 
         | If you already use a posix system like MacOS, than the workflow
         | will seem more familiar. =3
        
         | timbit42 wrote:
         | NextCloud?
        
           | lpcvoid wrote:
           | Throwing in opencloud here. I ran nextcloud self hosted for
           | many years. If you need only file sharing on a webui with
           | users, then opencloud is faster, more stable and less
           | resource hungry.
        
       | bhattisatish wrote:
       | In case of small enterprises, what are the options for migrating
       | to Ubuntu for all remote users?
       | 
       | How does one have an MDM solution? Most of the solutions out
       | there are poor on Ubuntu or need lots of work to get things
       | right. Can anyone provide a reference architecture/solution that
       | allows them to be SOC2 compliant? But also not have high friction
       | for developers and more importantly not have bigger overheads on
       | process or investment?
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | The industry standard endpoint security solutions all run on
         | either Windows or Mac. Endpoint security is an absolute MUST
         | for a corporate environment.
        
           | bigyabai wrote:
           | What is RHEL, chopped liver?
        
             | hxugufjfjf wrote:
             | EDR products are really quite bad on Linux, even RHEL in my
             | experience.
        
             | bitwize wrote:
             | It's been years since I've seen RHEL on the desktop at
             | work. Any company that tolerated Linux desktops has either
             | been large and geeky enough to go all-in on Linux and roll
             | their own custom management solutions (Google), or else was
             | still operating in "startup mode" with an attitude of "we
             | trust our software devs, let's just give them a laptop and
             | let them go nuts with root" which means they would flunk
             | any serious security audit. And most of those used Ubuntu
             | or similar.
             | 
             | The only place I've actually seen RHEL on the desktop, also
             | the only large instutition besides Google I've seen Linux
             | desktop rollout, was in government labs; and for those the
             | government can commission arbitrarily bespoke security
             | systems. In the real world, the CISO of your organization
             | is going to go with one of the industry standards, like
             | Cisco Secure Endpoint, which--again--only exist on Windows
             | and Mac. In the real world, you might be issued a Mac if
             | you're a developer, otherwise a Windows machine, and that's
             | what you'll use, end of story.
        
           | leptons wrote:
           | Yeah, I requested to have a Linux desktop from my employer
           | and was flatly told " _NO_ ". None of our many security
           | applications supports it, which is a real shame. As we use
           | Windows and MacOS, I can't see how we'll really be more
           | secure on those platforms, even with the security theater
           | applications they force us to use.
        
             | bitwize wrote:
             | The standard approach is to use intrusive spyware to
             | monitor all activity "for security" rather than to use
             | systems designed to be resistant to attack. I call it the
             | "fucking for virginity" approach to infosec. The reason why
             | is because it's assumed that all attack-resistant systems
             | break down somehow, under some circumstances but the audit
             | trail to determine who committed the attack and how is non-
             | negotiable, especially in regulatory and compliance
             | settings. So institutional infosec tools are more
             | interested in gathering the audit trail if/when an attack
             | happens than in preventing the attack (in a "while we value
             | the things in column A, the things in column B take
             | priority" kind of way). And since they're almost always
             | proprietary and considered beyond reproach by the corporate
             | infosec division, well... occasionally something like the
             | Clownstrike incident of 2024 does happen. But even that's
             | not as bad as having had a breach without a sufficient
             | audit trail to defend against liability or claims of
             | noncompliance with regulations or industry standards (e.g.,
             | HITRUST in the health field).
        
           | lpcvoid wrote:
           | Crowdstrike Falcon runs on Linux.
           | 
           | Edit: that's probably a bad thing, lol
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | "Continue reading with a Verge subscription"
       | 
       | Well ...
        
       | Jigsy wrote:
       | I've really been enjoying Linux since I started using it back in
       | mid 2024.
       | 
       | Although I was trying to shift to Linux slowly at the time, I
       | honestly wish I'd switched sooner.
        
       | jeffreygoesto wrote:
       | Did this in 91 as well. Going well ever since.
        
       | Lvl999Noob wrote:
       | I recently switched to linux from windows. The only reason I was
       | sticking with windows was because hoyoverse refuses to support
       | linux. I finally decided I need some break from them anyways and
       | took the plunge.
       | 
       | First, I tried to install fedora atomic cosmic. It kind of worked
       | but I could not get it to work with my dock + external monitors
       | at all. Now that I am used to that setup, I can't go back.
       | 
       | Not wanting to spend time figuring it out, I just installed
       | Ubuntu instead. Thankfully, that worked out though it's not
       | perfect. Everytime I turn on my laptop, I need to spend 10-15
       | minutes turning the monitors on and off until ubuntu recognises
       | them correctly and also sends dp output (it shows the monitor in
       | settings and I can open windows on it but the monitor doesn't
       | actually show anything; other times, it reads the monitor as
       | something nvidia with the lowest resolution).
       | 
       | I tried to install genshin anyways on ubuntu. I couldn't get it
       | to work via wine/lutris. Virtualbox doesn't support gpu
       | passthrough so I tried using virt-manager. The setup was too hard
       | and it didn't work anyways. I gave up on hoyo at this point and
       | install steam instead.
       | 
       | Honestly, ubuntu is rough and Linux as a whole is very rough. But
       | on the whole, I would still pick this over dealing with windows
       | any longer.
        
         | imer15 wrote:
         | check out the launchers here for hoyo stuff, i haven't tried
         | the genshin one but zzz worked nearly out of the box (had to
         | change the wine version it was using iirc)
         | https://github.com/an-anime-team
        
         | whatevaa wrote:
         | GPU passtrough on a laptop? If GPU is not in a separate IOMMU
         | group I wouldn't even try.
        
       | articsputnik wrote:
       | I moved from 15 years of macOS to Linux (Omarchy in my case). I
       | was mostly using the terminal and am therefore super happy with
       | my choice now. I wrote more at https://www.ssp.sh/blog/macbook-
       | to-arch-linux-omarchy/, in case of interest.
        
       | johnhamlin wrote:
       | I'm getting closer with every update Apple pushes
        
       | edem wrote:
       | My gaming PC now runs Zorin, my dev box rund Omarchy. It is time.
       | Commercial OSes are dead.
        
       | nh2 wrote:
       | I'm using Linux on the desktop for 15 years and I still sometimes
       | cannot connect to Wifi.
       | 
       | This is because the list of network refreshes (and disappears)
       | before I can find and click the correct Wifi:
       | 
       | https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/network-manager-applet/-/issu...
       | 
       | This completely breaks the Linux experience for anybody living in
       | a reasonably populous area. The issue has 3 upvotes.
       | 
       | I also put a 400 $ bounty on it, if anybody wants to give it a
       | shot. (Given that AI is supposed to replace 90% of programmers
       | last year, making the Wifi list stay visible should be easy,
       | right?)
       | 
       | This worked fine 10 years ago.
       | 
       | Most of my gripes are around some UI garbage behaviour like that.
       | I have a file manager on one PC (I think it's the Ubuntu one
       | where some "GUI in Snap" stuff breaks the GUI) breaks the file
       | picker dialogue, so that when pasting a directory path in to
       | navigate there, at the exact instant you press Enter, it
       | autocompletes the first file so that that gets selected, leading
       | you to upload a file you didn't want to upload.
       | 
       | That said, all of that feels like really high quality compared to
       | when once per year I click the Wifi menu on some Windows and it
       | take 20 seconds to appear at all.
        
         | forgotaccount22 wrote:
         | PR on the way
        
           | forgotaccount22 wrote:
           | PR created https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/network-manager-
           | applet/-/merg...
        
             | nh2 wrote:
             | Excellent, I will try it straight away. I'll pay out 75% if
             | it works (as it fixes my immediate problem), and the
             | remaining 25% if it gets merged. I'll email you after my
             | test.
             | 
             | I think one possible complaint you might get in the review
             | is that when refreshing is fully disabled in the menu,
             | people won't see new networks come up (e.g. when they had
             | just enabled Wifi, or unsuspended).
             | 
             | Maybe a good solution would be to to have one unclickable
             | menu entry pop up labelled e.g. "Networks changed, re-open
             | this menu" to solve that. Probably in nm-applet's main
             | context menu of which the list is a child, instead of in
             | the list itself, so that its appearance doesn't move around
             | the networks on which the user is currently intending to
             | click.
        
               | forgotaccount22 wrote:
               | It only stops refreshing if you are hovering the actual
               | SSID list items which in my opinion is the cleanest way
               | to do it, if you want new data you can reclick/rehover
               | the "available networks". The Other option is putting the
               | refresh on a global timer, but that would add magic which
               | isn't clear to the user.
               | 
               | Thanks, I will be awaiting your test result!
        
               | nh2 wrote:
               | I agree that logic is sound, but it is also not
               | discoverable to the user:
               | 
               | They might open the list (with the cursor resting on one
               | of the items, or use the keyboard to navigate out of
               | comfort or for accessibility reasons), then notice "oh
               | wait, I haven't actually enabled my phone's Wifi hotspot
               | yet", enable that, and wait forever for it to appear.
               | 
               | That's why I'm thinking something should visually (and
               | non-visually) change so the user can notice.
               | 
               | Maybe even cleaner would be to add a tooltip to the
               | currently-hovered entry? That might work for both mouse
               | and non-mouse use cases, and might even work for
               | screenreaders.
        
               | nh2 wrote:
               | Confirming it works, thank you! I sent you a mail. In
               | case it doesn't arrive, contact us via the support chat
               | on https://benaco.com
        
           | VertanaNinjai wrote:
           | Well, huge shoutout to you for following up on your word!
           | 
           | https://gitlab.gnome.org/rickyb/network-manager-
           | applet/-/com...
        
             | forgotaccount22 wrote:
             | Ashamed to admit that the power of monetary motivation got
             | the best of me here. But it was also nice to apply myself.
        
         | herczegzsolt wrote:
         | If you are sensitive to these issues, unfortunately you need to
         | go with a mainstream linux distribution and use near-default
         | settings.
         | 
         | It's great that you can customize everything and use your own
         | window manager, compositor, etc ... but these issues are the
         | price you pay. It is unfair to compare this to Windows, where
         | you don't even have these customization options.
         | 
         | Specifically for the network manager applet, it is not fixed
         | because it's not really used anymore. GNOME Shell has it's own
         | network selection menu that does not use the applet. It is the
         | default on most systems, so users don't face this issue by
         | default.
        
           | rickdg wrote:
           | I use ubuntu and the default remote desktop just stopped
           | working since 24: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/rdp-stopped-
           | working-after-upg...
           | 
           | With Linux, you just have to be prepared to hit a bug and
           | find no help coming anytime.
        
             | Xfx7028 wrote:
             | >>With Linux, you just have to be prepared to hit a bug and
             | find no help coming anytime.
             | 
             | Mate there are bugs in windows and macos that have been
             | unfixed for years. This is not a good argument in my
             | opinion.
        
             | nh2 wrote:
             | > find no help coming anytime
             | 
             | Well, see sibling thread: Looks like you just need to post
             | your bounty in HN and somebody will do within a few hours.
             | Somebody to that for Windows or macos.
             | 
             | Sometimes I feel the bounty topic isn't well served yet. On
             | the GNOME bug tracker it doesn't seem to be very
             | discoverable. Are there current good platforms to advertise
             | bounties where people actually look?
        
             | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
             | Are you proposing that the linux community offers worse
             | support than any kind of software support that you pay for?
             | I've found strangers on the internet to be worlds better
             | than anything I've ever gotten from a vendor.
        
             | 63stack wrote:
             | >With Linux, you just have to be prepared to hit a bug and
             | find no help coming anytime.
             | 
             | I'd argue it's the opposite. Windows stuff randomly
             | breaking on forced unattended updates is a common trope by
             | now. If you try to search for solutions, you will find
             | "Trusted Microsoft Computing Expert Gold Level Diamond
             | Star" people on MS forums giving you advice ranging from
             | "reinstall drivers, uninstall drivers, update bios, run
             | virus scan, and defrag your ssd".
             | 
             | If you search for problems on linux, you will get much
             | higher quality answers.
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | I've been recommending Mint/Cinnamon over Ubuntu for years now.
         | Its wifi widget does not do this, nor does it use snap.
        
           | hexbin010 wrote:
           | Mint is really polished
        
           | mft_ wrote:
           | I jumped on the Linux bandwagon with my main work laptop last
           | week, when my perfectly fine (I thought) Windows 11
           | installation nuked itself without warning (possibly related
           | to merely opening Teams).
           | 
           | I somewhat randomly chose Mint, and a few oddities aside;
           | it's been a pretty good experience.
        
         | hexbin010 wrote:
         | Also the latest KDE UI that inserts a tiny password input box
         | below the SSID when you click the SSID, and doesn't scroll it
         | into view, so you're left wondering what's going on
         | 
         | Really really bad WiFi connection UI all over
        
         | llmslave3 wrote:
         | Last time I tried Linux I was so done with Windows I installed
         | Arch. Couldn't connect to Wifi. I figured it was Arch, so I
         | installed Ubuntu. Literally the same problem. So I got a new
         | USB wifi adaptor that said it supported Linux...same problem. I
         | gave up and have been using a MacBook ever since lol.
        
           | lpcvoid wrote:
           | Perhaps you could have checked if the firmware was installed?
           | Most distros have non free firmware in their packages, it
           | just needs to be installed.
        
             | llmslave3 wrote:
             | I tried everything lol.
        
             | mft_ wrote:
             | Or maybe the operating system should _just work_ reliably
             | for (at least) the basics? Or if it can't, at least give an
             | indication why?
             | 
             | Blaming a new user like this is one of the cultural reasons
             | why the 'year of the Linux desktop' has always been n+1.
        
         | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
         | That sounds like a GNOME problem, not a Linux problem.
         | 
         | You should give KDE a go.
        
       | rickcarlino wrote:
       | Linux is one of the last strong defenses for the idea that people
       | should control the computers they own. On desktops and servers,
       | root access is normal, and attempts to take it away do not work
       | because software freedom is well established. On phones, that
       | never happened. There is no real, mainstream "Linux for mobile,"
       | and the result is a world of locked-down platforms where things
       | like "sideloading" are treated as scary security risks instead of
       | basic user rights. This makes it much easier for lawmakers to
       | argue for removing root access on mobile devices, even though the
       | same idea would be unrealistic on desktop systems.
       | 
       | A great deal of gratitude is owed to all the people who volunteer
       | their free time to create the stable desktop environment we have
       | free access to on Linux in 2026.
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | If you're interested in this aspect of user agency, you might
         | like the "trustworthy technology" site a few friends and I are
         | working on: https://aol.codeberg.page/eci/
        
         | ReptileMan wrote:
         | >Linux is one of the last strong defenses for the idea that
         | people should control the computers they own.
         | 
         | Please run Kate/Kwrite as root and then we will talk on the
         | topic. Or pipe password to ssh
        
           | jamblewamble wrote:
           | You dont have to use that software. Who even would? You're an
           | adult, presumably, so use vim.
        
           | zufallsheld wrote:
           | That's the good thing with open source. You can theoretically
           | fork it and remove what prevents you from using Kate as root.
        
             | ReptileMan wrote:
             | Sure. But the malaise of smug people taking decisions that
             | are outside of the scope of the software is creeping into
             | linux too. It is up to me decide what is secure, not them.
        
               | tom_ wrote:
               | It's smug people telling other people what to do all the
               | way down!
        
       | austin-cheney wrote:
       | I have old computers. Windows 10 is dead and Windows 11 will not
       | install on old hardware. I put Debian 13 on my wife's computer.
       | 
       | At first she found it really frustrating, but then reality set
       | in: she didn't really know Windows either. On Linux there is
       | pretty broad capability to solve your own problem if you can get
       | over fear of a terminal.
       | 
       | Her favorite game runs faster on Debian so that helps.
        
       | anon291 wrote:
       | I have used Linux my entire adult life. Honestly never really had
       | any issue with setup. Everything just works without having to do
       | anything. Much easier than windows usually.
        
       | TacticalCoder wrote:
       | It's quite interesting to see all these people switching to Linux
       | on the desktop and realizing it works. Some of us are using Linux
       | on the desktop since more than ... a quarter of a century.
       | 
       | Everytime I read such an article I'm thinking _" duh, of course
       | it works"_ but apparently people still think it's not the case.
       | 
       | I do really, really, really wonder what's going to happen once
       | battery usage is more efficient on Linux than on Windows. For in
       | every thread about Linux on the desktop, there seems to be an
       | endless flow of comments saying _" I can get 11 hours of battery
       | time on Windows, but I only get 10h40 minutes on Linux"_.
       | 
       | Linux powers billions, if not tens of billions of devices by now:
       | trust me, it can power your desktop/laptop just fine.
        
       | jauntywundrkind wrote:
       | It's great that we are already in such a strong spot! I'm also
       | excited for how LLM's can help folks administer & setup systems.
       | 
       | There's still a lot of folks who bounce of setting up this or
       | that thing that requires editing some config file. We're really
       | good now about making most things pretty well UI'ee up, but Linux
       | is such a malleable platform (complementary): LLM's decondtrain
       | what users can do from what UI has been built. That's super
       | exciting.
       | 
       | Step 1 of folks being able to use Linux as a desktop is going
       | pretty well these days. With some AI hope, I hope folks get more
       | and more enticed into setting up some devices. Once you're up
       | with TailScale and have a service or two deployed, it can be very
       | addictive to keep going. LLM's can make setting up & customizing
       | the desktop easier, & they can help operate & admin services too.
       | Strong hopes users will have much more agency, with where we are
       | going.
        
       | 20after4 wrote:
       | I've been using nothing but Linux on my desktop since 2013.
       | Converted my parents around 2015. Rarely a complaint from them
       | and I haven't even once considered switching back to Windows. My
       | shiny new Macbook Air is collecting dust. Almost all of my gaming
       | is done on a SteamDeck or a Linux desktop. The only applications
       | that I can think of where Windows or Mac are still relevant would
       | be CAD and Audio/Video production. And even those are use-cases
       | where Linux has viable options. Actually, Video probably doesn't
       | even belong here since one of the most popular video packages
       | (DaVinci Resolve) has Linux support and there are multiple open
       | source options like Kdenlive. For music, it's really hard to beat
       | Apple's ecosystem: Mac and iOS have an incredible variety of
       | affordable and really high quality audio applications, however,
       | the gap is narrowing with lots of great music software on Linux
       | as well. There are free software options for CAD and 3d Modeling
       | (Blender, Freecad) but most of the popular CAD software is either
       | Windows only or Windows/Mac. Some of this may be possible to get
       | working under Wine but I haven't tried.
        
       | s0a wrote:
       | can we just boot to a browser sandbox and call it a day? ditch
       | all the old bloatware. we do not need native apps.
        
       | desireco42 wrote:
       | I installed Omarchy last year when it come out (Arch distro for
       | devs) on laptop and December I installed it on desktop machine,
       | the powerful one.
       | 
       | Now I can play and work on a same machine for the first time in
       | like 15+ years since I switched to Mac so I can work.
       | 
       | It isn't smooth sailing, I have bluetooth speakers and
       | headphones, switching is not easy experience. Vibe coding, audio
       | dictation works on Thinkpad which is underpowered compared to
       | desktop, but it isn't working there. In fact this is more
       | troublesome issue then headphones.
       | 
       | But for most part I could live with those issues and hopefully
       | they get resolved.
       | 
       | Macs are just annoying, updates are for things I don't care and
       | everything is about pushing me towards some subscription or
       | other. I don't see future there for myself
        
       | cramcgrab wrote:
       | When you think about it, lots of Linux and Unix devices.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | I replaced windows with linux 30 years ago.
       | 
       | Then i replaced linux with mac os.
       | 
       | Cook, keep in mind that if you keep dumbing down Mac OS I can
       | switch back to linux in 24 hours.
        
       | bstar77 wrote:
       | I have been primarily in the tiling window manager space for the
       | past 5 years... that said I've been driving Cosmic on my NixOS
       | workstation and I'm really impressed... it looks great, is
       | simple, performs well and does tiling quite well. It's not going
       | to take me away from Niri, but it's my goto suggestion now for
       | any one getting into Linux.
        
       | grog454 wrote:
       | > I reboot, log into Epic and GOG, and start downloading The
       | Outer Worlds, a game from 2019 I've been playing a bit lately. It
       | runs fine with Proton, and I can even sync my saves from the
       | cloud. I play it for a few minutes with my trackball, remember I
       | hate gaming on a trackball, and plug my gaming mouse back in. It
       | works fine as long as I'm in the game, but outside the game,
       | mouse clicks stop working again. It makes sense -- the bug is on
       | the desktop, not in games -- but it's very funny to have a gaming
       | mouse that only works for gaming.
       | 
       | What is it with mice and OSes?
       | 
       | Windows is the only OS I can seem to configure to get low
       | latency, high accuracy, linear movement with, and it's not for
       | lack of effort.
       | 
       | I struggled for several years to do SWE work on a Mac and no 3rd
       | party program could get it working the way it does on Windows. I
       | tried Linear Mouse and many others. I eventually gave up, went
       | against the prevailing (90%) culture where I work, and exchanged
       | my mac for a windows laptop. I haven't measured it, but I _feel_
       | more productive simply because I can click what I want to click
       | marginally faster.
       | 
       | Is something in Mac drivers performing non-linear mapping? Why?
       | 
       | Based on the quote above it seems like Linux hasn't even gotten
       | up to par with Mac for mice.
       | 
       | The best litmus test for an OS for me is whether I could play an
       | RTS or FPS competitively with it, even though I haven't played
       | either for years.
        
       | pipes wrote:
       | I've done the same, though I've used Linux in work and home for
       | 22 years (I think 2004 was my first install).
       | 
       | At home I consistently gave up on Linux due to hardware and game
       | compatibility issues.
       | 
       | A combination of buying a steam deck plus windows 11 pushed me
       | back to Linux.
       | 
       | It is oddly peaceful using mint Linux. No adverts. No "like what
       | you see" wall paper click bait. No news site click bait. No
       | register with an online Microsoft account that doesn't have a no
       | button. Just my computer.
       | 
       | The one annoying thing is, some games just don't play nice with
       | wine / proton (for some reason I want to play soldier of fortune,
       | even though I know it's not great). Others are a pain to set up.
       | But mainly it is good enough. (I'm a gog.com junkie). So I may
       | end up installing windows 11 lts. Though I did that with windows
       | 10 and it was lacking some DLLs that some old games needed and
       | was pretty much unfixable.
        
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