[HN Gopher] How will the miracle happen today?
___________________________________________________________________
How will the miracle happen today?
Author : zdw
Score : 281 points
Date : 2026-01-04 16:32 UTC (5 days ago)
(HTM) web link (kk.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (kk.org)
| gostsamo wrote:
| > I am not sure I would invite a casual tourist I met to take
| over my apartment, and cook for him, as many have done for me.
|
| leaves a bad taste. I've helped and been helped in all kinds of
| situations. The sense of entitlement in this guy and the way he
| proudly explains how he is using people is just awful. Help is to
| give when you know that the gesture will have an disproportional
| effect for the other person and will make the world a better
| place. The way he presents it, he just relies on other people
| because he can and without giving ever back. Maybe I'm
| misreading, but I don't feel inspired.
| bobson381 wrote:
| Agreed. There are helpers and the helped, and it is a good
| thing to do both when you can.
| JimmyBuckets wrote:
| This person is being honest about how he feels about a
| hypothetical situation. I appreciate the humility of sharing a
| thought people might look down on and would be trivial to lie
| about. Also based on this article I would be surprised if he is
| not the type to show such kindness - if anything this
| reflection shows that such openness is not to be taken lightly,
| that it is special and should be appreciated as such. How
| wonderful then that is is so ubiquitous.
| loire280 wrote:
| I think this was rhetorical hedging - the author was expressing
| false doubt to underscore how extraordinary the actions of his
| hosts were, but he didn't literally mean he wouldn't do the
| same for others. The tone of the rest of the piece implies he
| is very grateful for the kindness of strangers.
| gostsamo wrote:
| > I am having trouble seeing myself emptying my bank account
| to purchase a boat ticket for someone who has more money than
| I do.
|
| Another strange example. In the entire article he does not
| give one example where he is the helper or offers reason why
| he would help or why people should help. It is all about the
| taking as far as I can read. IDK, just I'm not inspired or
| excited.
| jimbokun wrote:
| Well we only know what he said.
|
| He doesn't present examples where he helped others.
| loire280 wrote:
| That's not the point of his piece, and spending time virtue
| signaling to the reader would undermine the message that
| this kindness is a form of grace, given freely without
| expectation of reciprocation.
| willparks wrote:
| I'm pretty sure the message is about the general goodness of
| humanity and the positivity of connection, "the better angles
| of our nature." As the culture gets more divided and us vs
| them, people are actually fundamentally good and helpful. I'm
| sure the people who helped him also got a positive experience
| out of it. It is not zero sum that he took something from them,
| both were positively affected by the experience.
| gostsamo wrote:
| > I learned from hitchhiking to think of this as an exchange.
| During the moment the stranger offers his or her goodness,
| the person being aided can reciprocate with degrees of
| humility, dependency, gratitude, surprise, trust, delight,
| relief, and amusement to the stranger. It takes some practice
| to enable this exchange when you don't feel desperate.
|
| That's his view. Transactional and rehearsed.
| JackFr wrote:
| > the way he proudly explains how he is using people is just
| awful.
|
| TFA: "One might even call the art of accepting generosity a
| type of compassion."
|
| Turns out he's doing them a favor!
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I get what you're saying. But to me he is simply being honest.
|
| If he did not wonder to himself how he would have felt about a
| scraggly, hippy knocking on his front door in the evening, I
| would have been suspect.
| eightys3v3n wrote:
| I would offer to help someone to the tune of an hour of my time
| or a hundred dollars to hear a story about how they are
| travelling without money. It wouldn't matter to me whether they
| used to have a job so long as they weren't claiming they would
| die if someone didn't help (which I didn't hear in this
| article).
| runamuck wrote:
| 99.9% of the people I meet want to be kind and help. You just
| need to "tune into that frequency." Fantastic anecdotal article
| that speaks to the goodness of humanity.
| esafak wrote:
| Just don't push your luck. There are a lot of people -- usually
| women -- who travel the world to prove the goodness of humanity
| and get killed by some rando along the way. Look up Pippa
| Bacca.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| I wonder what the rate of "getting killed by some rando along
| the way" actually is. Sure, lots of anecdotes, and I don't
| really know how you'd measure it, but I'm curious how it
| plays out by the real numbers.
| dheera wrote:
| s/killed/harassed/ and the numbers are pretty damn high at
| least in my circle
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| The rate of being killed is pretty damn high in your
| circle? What is s/killed? Or is it just a harassment
| issue? If it's so high, why keep doing it? I'm struggling
| to understand the risk/reward, and what the risk actually
| is compared to what it's perceived to be.
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| s/foo/bar/ is search & replace foo with bar. So yes,
| they're saying the rate of harassment is high. Even if we
| posit that >99% of men aren't harassers, a solo female
| traveler is going to encounter a lot more than 100 men,
| so is quite likely to be harassed.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| > s/foo/bar/ is search & replace foo with bar.
|
| Ah, thank you.
| JackFr wrote:
| For men I suspect the "killed by a rando" number is pretty
| low, but robbery/theft is very high. Of course if you have
| nothing to steal, that does insulate you a little.
|
| For women I suspect the "killed by a rando" number is low,
| but the sexual assault number is higher.
| buellerbueller wrote:
| >There are a lot of people -- usually women -- who want to
| travel the world to prove the goodness of humanity and get
| killed by some rando along the way.
|
| "Wont someone think of the (lots of?) women?"
|
| Honestly: how are you defining "a lot" here? A dozen or two?
| That's a vanishingly small proportion of humanity, my friend.
| And would you even hear the tales of those who travel the
| world and _don 't_ get killed? I am just saying that you are
| making a big claim, but provide no evidence.
| reaperducer wrote:
| They're human beings, not numbers or statistics.
|
| Or would you have us believe that a certain number of these
| kinds of murders are OK, because they're just "rounding
| errors" or "edge cases?"
|
| What's the over/under number?
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Of course they're human beings. I think the point is,
| should you, statistically, live a life of fear based on
| possibly negligible odds of death or assault?
| roadside_picnic wrote:
| > negligible odds of death or assault?
|
| Negligible odds of _death_ I 'll buy, but a very large
| number of my women friends over my life have been
| sexually assaulted (and probably far more than I realize,
| it's not like it's something you bring up during holiday
| dinner). I'm often shocked by how few men realize how
| prevalent this is.
|
| The idea that "women who aren't comfortably traveling the
| world alone depending on the kindness of strangers are
| living a life ruled by fear" seems _naive_ at best.
|
| Even back in the days when hitchhiking was much more
| common you would almost never see a single woman by
| herself, for good reason.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I'm male and I was speaking of males (male friends and
| co-workers for example).
| buellerbueller wrote:
| It is also more likely than not for assault victims that
| their assaulter is known to them, which goes back to the
| original point: how much more likely is a woman traveling
| the world to be assaulted or killed than one who is just
| existing in her everyday environs?
|
| My original point still stands: the commenter made a big
| claim: world travel is (more) risky for women (than not
| world travel), but provided little evidence to support
| said claim.
| Windchaser wrote:
| The odds of assault for women are not negligible.
|
| And it kinda takes the fun out of such a trip if you have
| to be on edge in order to protect yourself all the time.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I can think of one example. There are likely hundreds of
| thousands of non-examples though.
|
| You get one life. If you choose to live it to maximize
| personal safety you'll never know all the wonders you sat
| out.
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| And the 0.1% ruin it completely.
|
| It takes only one bad apple to spoil the entire barrel.
| (Literally: the bad apple produces ethylene which spoils the
| rest of the apples in the barrel).
|
| Examples of this phenomenon are everywhere. One bad cop makes
| the entire force untrustworthy, two to three unruly kids can
| make a classroom unteachable, et cetera.
|
| And a 0.1% chance of a bad encounter with a stranger as a
| vulnerable person can make it not worth approaching strangers
| at all.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| You're gong to throw away a life of living _above_ fear if
| you focus on the 0.1%. And you 'll never know what you were
| missing.
|
| You can stay at home your whole life, avoid travel, avoid
| meeting people. From my experience (60+ years now) the best
| times of my life have involved taking those "chances".
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| Me too. But is it the privilege of being large, male and
| white with a small but real family safety net? I
| specifically specified "vulnerable people" in my comment.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| That's fair--and it's true I wasn't addressing them.
| Although I feel like vulnerability, in my experience, is
| a thing that absolutely elicits sympathy, compassion from
| strangers.
|
| Part of why hitchhiking works is because you are putting
| yourself out there at the mercy of a stranger--making
| yourself vulnerable as it were.
| dpc050505 wrote:
| I know several women who've travelled alone at various
| places in South America.
|
| My sister had her credit card blocked by her bank while
| travelling in Belize just before coming home. She got a
| ton of help from locals who understood her predicament.
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| Sure, lots of women travel alone, and most of them have
| excellent experiences.
|
| But you generally don't have to talk to a lot of them
| before you encounter one that's been sexually assaulted
| on her travels.
|
| Does that mean women shouldn't travel alone outside of
| "safe" countries? I am not in any sort of position to
| make that call. But I'll be supportive of my daughters if
| they decide to do so.
| Noaidi wrote:
| Everything you said here is selfish, do you understand
| that?
|
| "From my experience (60+ years now) the best times of my
| life have involved taking those "chances"."
|
| You are not focused on giving, it is all about getting. And
| why is staying at home your whole life something looked
| down on? Just think of all the carbon it saves going into
| the atmosphere, if you can that is.
| andrewl wrote:
| Not traveling alone on foot in a country in which you
| barely speak the language does not mean staying shut in
| your house and never traveling at all and never meeting
| people. There is a middle ground.
| Noaidi wrote:
| Oh....what's the frequency Kennith? I have a hard time tuning
| to frequencies though, due to my severe mood disorder, so can
| you offer me some help on getting my tuner repaired first?
|
| Goodness of humanity? Possibility of it, yes, yes, but have you
| seen the homeless counts rise in the U.S., richest country in
| the world?
| astura wrote:
| >99.9% of the people I meet want to be kind and help. You just
| need to "tune into that frequency."
|
| Jesus.
|
| The only people who say this are white men.
|
| "You just need to "tune into that frequency."" Is especially
| gross. You were raped and murdered by a stranger? It's your
| fault for tuning into the rape-and-murder frequency instead of
| the give-me-stuff frequency. That's what the implication is.
| Ewww.
| JR1427 wrote:
| This reminds me of a video I watch recently of a comfortably off
| guy who decided to try and do a long-distance cycle with just
| PS100.
|
| He could afford not to rely on others, but instead he let people
| buy him food, give him a bed, etc.
|
| This didn't sit well with me. If you can pay your own way, but
| choose to instead let others pay for you, you're just sponging
| off people.
| c4wrd wrote:
| I think it's a balance. In some cases, the act of giving means
| much more to the giver than to the receiver, especially when
| they want to be a part of something larger than themselves.
| lukan wrote:
| I say it depends how he communicated it. If the other persons
| assumed he did not have money at all (and he was not clear
| about it) it is close to fraud - otherwise it is an awesome
| exercise in humbleness and expanding ones mind about the
| illusion of money. Not being dependent on it.
|
| I used to hitchhike with a very low budget, but liked my
| independence and feel not comfortable to be dependant on other
| people, if there was no one in time, I took a bus. (If there
| was one)
|
| But buddies I travelled with also took the no money approach
| serious (despite also having a bank account somewhere). Partly
| ideological, partly spiritual motivations. Not being dependant
| on money. It is freeing.
| f1shy wrote:
| > But buddies I travelled with took the no money approach
| serious (despite also having a bank account somewhere).
| Partly ideological, partly spiritual motivations. Not being
| dependant on money. It is freeing.
|
| I knew a ridiculous rich guy, who said the parents: "I do not
| want money from you, I will manage alone" He went to another
| city (where I met him) and he always bragged about how
| "liberating" it was, and how grown up he was, and he _knew_
| what is like to be poor, because he _was_ poor... (1)
|
| In my opinion he was full of shit and full of himself. It
| remind me about the film Inside Man, the opening scene
| features mastermind Dalton Russell (Clive Owen) in a prison
| cell, he say something like "being in a cell is not being in
| prison". Is absolutely not the same being poor, in contrast
| to having money and not using it as part of a kind of game.
|
| (1) let me give me more context: I saw him telling other
| people, who were actually poor and were struggling to eat,
| and giving lessons of life to them, explaining how being poor
| is an "opportunity". It was a miracle he conserved all teeth
| that day.
| lukan wrote:
| "Is absolutely not the same being poor, in contrast to
| having money and not using it as part of a kind of game."
|
| It is definitely not the same if there is a safety net you
| always can call and go back to. A true poor person does not
| have that. But if you have done the livestyle and know that
| you can get by without money, you do loose some fear of
| loosing money. That is indeed a liberating feeling and did
| helped me grow. But I also did not go around bragging how
| liberated I am, so I cannot judge on the person you met.
| f1shy wrote:
| > But if you have done the livestyle and know that you
| can get by without money, you do loose some fear of
| loosing money.
|
| I disagree. I've seen people that used to say "I was
| unemployed, I don't fear unemployment"... until they lost
| the job.
|
| To me is like saying "I will go to see the bear behind
| bars in the zoo, so that when I see one in the wild I do
| not fear."
|
| The people I know that actually were poor fear poverty
| the most. That guy never ever had such a fear. He even
| never ever studied or worked, because liked living from
| others, until he went back to the parents.
| lukan wrote:
| I mean, it depends of course. Especially now that I have
| children, who depend on me. I do know, even with kids you
| can hitchhike, do work exchange, etc. but it is a whole
| different story than doing it on my own, so I would never
| claim I transcended above existential fears regarding
| money. But I do believe my base attitude is way more
| relaxed to always find a way somehow and that helps me a
| lot to not get a heart attack considering all the stress
| I do have to face.
|
| About others I don't know I won't judge, but surely quite
| some like living in a illusion, no doubt about it.
| buellerbueller wrote:
| Maybe the point was the connectedness? Spend PS100 with no
| actual interactions, because literally everything is
| transactional, or "free ride" of of the very human need to
| connect socially with others?
|
| I think our future needs more of the latter and less of the
| former.
| willparks wrote:
| Right, he's promoting living in a more helpful, less isolated
| world.
| buellerbueller wrote:
| My wife and kids always make fun of me for the goofy dad-
| joke-level interactions* I will create with strangers (that
| far more often then not elicits laughs from the person with
| whom I interact).
|
| When they tease me about it, I ask them if they'd rather
| live in a world of complete atomization, free of any human
| interaction.
|
| I know I would not!
|
| * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEGohj0IkQo. (They call
| me "Bonjour" sometimes lol)
| jimbokun wrote:
| I think if he is willing to be generous in other times and
| places as well, it can be a good learning experience.
|
| I know this is also how Jesus lives in the Gospels, and has his
| disciples do so at times as well.
|
| Of course he paid his way by healing the sick and raising the
| dead!
|
| And telling really good stories.
| mapmeld wrote:
| I did some bike touring for a few days at a time, and lived out
| of monthly Airbnbs for years. I was helped out several times,
| but my objective was to only accept when I was in a pinch. It's
| when you're relying on other people as a routine that it flips
| some circuit and I question it (the difference between a friend
| staying over and moving in, Airbnb and Couchsurfing). So the
| daily hitchhiking, even though he likely needed to save money,
| got to me a bit more than the other stories.
| tejohnso wrote:
| > If you can pay your own way, but choose to instead let others
| pay for you, you're just sponging off people.
|
| I was particularly perturbed at the mention of someone emptying
| their bank account to help this guy, who has more money than
| the person emptying their account. I'm no ethics expert, but
| there is an idea that the unbounded acceptance of generosity
| becomes a form of exploitation, which I agree with.
| BrokenCogs wrote:
| Sounds like someone who takes and does not give
| bpt3 wrote:
| This was my impression as well. I'm supposed to wander around
| and wonder who I will leech off of today, while presenting it
| both a skill and to some extent as a favor to the person
| helping me?
| dheera wrote:
| Exactly.
|
| People _taking advantage of other peoples ' kindness
| systematically and at scale_ is the reason why people are less
| kind today.
| oasisbob wrote:
| Not sure I agree, the systematicness can be cultural as well.
|
| In my area there's a bunch of Islands with ferry service, but
| the ferry terminals are often remotely located on these
| islands, away from lodging and population centers.
|
| It's fairly common to see people hitchhiking their way to hop
| off the islands. Every time I've chosen to do it, I'm still
| filled with the same sense of gratitude Kevin Kelly
| describes. The folks picking me up always feel like they're
| experiencing the sense of levity and kindness, not
| habituality and scorn.
| convolvatron wrote:
| people getting increasingly hung up on enforcing reciprocity
| is just as likely a culprit
| dheera wrote:
| I wasn't trying to enforce reciprocity. I'm just saying
| that if you don't _need_ help you shouldn 't be asking for
| it from strangers.
|
| If you have a job and income you can afford transportation.
| Behaving like a broke person when you are not is taking
| advantage of other people, and taking limited kindness
| resources away from people who actually need help.
| oasisbob wrote:
| Perhaps kindness isn't a zero-sum game
| jjkaczor wrote:
| Even mentions in the article that he would be hesitant to
| respond the same way with his resources... that's when I
| stopped reading, so frankly don't know if he changed that
| attitude or not...
| postexitus wrote:
| There is a view that being a kindee is generosity, because you
| allow other people to express kindness (and feel good about
| themselves?).
| magicalist wrote:
| Sure, and a world where we're more dependent on each other
| would be a better world. It's clearer all the time that
| humans work much better that way.
|
| But if you're _only_ a "kindee", if you structure your life
| in a way that you can only receive help from other people and
| never be the helper, that's not humans dependent on _each
| other_.
| exegete wrote:
| Seems like a good way to rationalize receiving and not giving
| anything.
| econ wrote:
| For years and from people who have nothing to share.
| 85392_school wrote:
| Why would he be helped if he truly doesn't give? He speaks
| about this a little: the person being aided can
| reciprocate with degrees of humility, dependency, gratitude,
| surprise, trust, delight, relief, and amusement
|
| which, at the time, was genuinely valuable [0].
|
| [0] Discussed more at
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46555688
| BrokenCogs wrote:
| Do you donate to a charity expecting reciprocity?
| 85392_school wrote:
| This comment leaves me confused as to what you believe. Do
| you believe a man biking across the country "takes and does
| not give" in a different way from a charity, or was
| "someone who takes and does not give" simply not meant in a
| bad way?
| mise_en_place wrote:
| It's a distinct possibility. What's more likely is that this
| person is an example of someone robbed of their own agency,
| either intentionally or not.
|
| It leads to becoming dependent on others, a true Last Man in
| the original sense. That's where the resentment starts on the
| part of the giver, especially when enabling people such as this
| repeatedly and on long enough timescales.
|
| What's become clear to me is that there isn't anything
| inherently wrong (morally speaking) with these people, but they
| need to be moved out of the way so to speak. They cannot be
| allowed to escape their various containment zones, and the
| mechanism for their containment must be strengthened.
| jonnybgood wrote:
| Some would call them a begpacker. It's quite common in Asia.
| scotty79 wrote:
| > We are at the receiving end of a huge gift simply by being
| alive.
|
| I always perceived it completely opposite. Even as a few years
| old child.
| gbjw wrote:
| You think it's a curse to be alive?
| buellerbueller wrote:
| Personally, I think it is whichever of these you perceive it
| to be.
| gbjw wrote:
| Strange "curse" if it can be rid of with some perspective
| change.
| tefkah wrote:
| What perspective change? Your brains splattered on the
| wall? While I am also grateful to be alive, I don't think
| it's that hard to imagine other people being in
| situations where they feel deeply unhappy about being
| born, and that that feeling really can't be dispelled
| with a simple "perspective change", unless you mean
| suicide.
| scotty79 wrote:
| It doesn't even need to be situations, just a particular
| flavor of brain chemistry.
| monktastic1 wrote:
| I think you're misreading the comment you're responding
| to. Its parent comment said that life can be a blessing
| or a curse depending on how you choose to look. They
| responded by asking whether the word "curse" is
| appropriate if it can be changed based only on
| perspective.
| avensec wrote:
| I read the comment with a bit more grace. I just assumed
| they were skipping to the end of a journey without any of
| the subject's empathetic nuance. Meaning, most
| philosophical, spiritual, psychological, and mindset
| approaches all "end" with the idea that we have a choice
| in how we feel about things. That choice is choosing to
| feel things differently.
|
| Those ends would say that suffering is a product of our
| own making. It is a choice. Bad things can happen to you,
| but your perspective on the situation creates the
| suffering (resistance, guilt, personalization, inability
| to see it as a change agent, etc.).
| buellerbueller wrote:
| I suppose that would depend on how easy it is to change
| ones perspective, which is something I've made no claim
| about. If you are depressed, for example, perspective
| change is notoriously difficult--and in my (admittedly
| limited, anecdotal) experience, everyone I have known to
| view life as a curse has been suffering some level of
| depression.
| svieira wrote:
| If you haven't read C. S. Lewis' _The Great Divorce_ you
| may like it.
| scotty79 wrote:
| Not sure if I'd use word curse. It at least slightly implies
| agency.
|
| I'd just say it's a burden and a bother.
| circlefavshape wrote:
| I don't really understand which bit of the quoted phrase is
| opposite. Do you mean we're at the giving end of a huge gift?
| Or something else?
| tefkah wrote:
| Im pretty sure the commenter means that they do not
| experience (or at least see) life as a gift, but as the
| complete opposite. Anti-natalist-y
| sweetheart wrote:
| What an amazing blog post. Such a treat to have read this. Thanks
| for sharing.
| bpt3 wrote:
| If the world was filled with people with KK's attitude, humanity
| would have died off a very long time ago.
| buellerbueller wrote:
| Conversely, if the world was filled with people with this
| attitude, humanity would be living in a stable, post-scarcity
| situation from a very long time ago.
| bpt3 wrote:
| No, because everyone would be waiting around to be helped
| rather than producing the abundance required for a post-
| scarcity society (which can never actually exist by the way).
|
| You can't eat or sleep in gratitude, especially from people
| who have no intent of repaying your favors.
|
| Edit: To be clear, I was talking about the author in my
| comment above.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I disagree. The world _is_ in fact filled with people with this
| attitude. And it is likely why we 're still here at all.
|
| "...it is one of high importance to all those animals which aid
| and defend one another, it will have been increased through
| natural selection; for those communities, which included the
| greatest number of the most sympathetic members, would flourish
| best, and rear the greatest number of offspring."
|
| --Charles Darwin (the Ascent of Man)
| bpt3 wrote:
| You realize I'm talking about the author (KK), not the people
| he was basically grifting?
|
| I have edited my comment to make it more clear.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I did not realize, thanks for the clarification.
|
| I think you're leaning a little too hard on Kevin though.
| Grifting is putting a bit of a fine point on it.
| bpt3 wrote:
| I figured not, apologies for not making it clear.
|
| KK is basically encouraging people to go out in the world
| and say "what can this place do for me today?" which is
| bad enough on its surface, but he's doing it while
| interacting with people (in this story at least) who have
| much, much less than him in so many ways. I'm not sure
| what you want to call it exactly, but it feels
| exploitative and antisocial to me at a minimum.
| afpx wrote:
| If a species is going to die out anyway, shouldn't it try to go
| out in a way respectful to its self-identity (assuming it's
| smart enough to have self-identity)?
| pupppet wrote:
| Just want to say I love this vintage internet blog style.
| kayo_20211030 wrote:
| Loved this piece. Kindness and gratitude as a kind of symmetry. I
| have to work on both of those, I'm afraid. I suppose we all do:
| but, they seem admirable goals.
| jimbokun wrote:
| > Although we don't deserve it, and have done nothing to merit
| it, we have been offered a glorious ride on this planet, if only
| we accept it.
|
| This is the core message of Christianity. Undeserved Grace.
|
| I will also say though, I find it annoying this guy so easily
| received gifts from those least able to afford them, and then
| admits he is not willing to be so generous himself. Did he learn
| nothing from their example?
| jptlnk wrote:
| If I may, I think that's actually part of the point, and (at
| least for me) part of the lesson.
|
| I read him as saying that part of the miracle to him is that he
| has experienced something that makes him realize that it's a
| lot harder than it sounds to be loving and kind with no (or
| few) conditions, and to open your home and life to a stranger.
|
| For me, a lesson of this piece is actually the juxtaposition of
| the relative ease of -accepting- help and the strange
| difficulty of -offering- help. It's worth reflecting on, and
| imo much more relatable.
|
| I'm reminded of a friend who talks about primary and secondary
| wants. He wants to eat a burger, but he wants to want to eat a
| salad. Maybe KK wants to want to help people, and the challenge
| for him is connecting the dots.
| magicalist wrote:
| > _Maybe KK wants to want to help people, and the challenge
| for him is connecting the dots._
|
| Maybe he could try instead of waiting for someone to help him
| do it?
| eduction wrote:
| The act of writing something like this can be a way of
| helping yourself do it. I'm not sure that's his intent, or
| not, but I like the idea of writing at an intermediate
| stage. Should he wait until his behavior is perfect before
| sharing his experience? If so it might never get written.
| There is a generosity in talking about your own flaws, it
| can help people who are working through their own flaws as
| well.
|
| Paul Graham is among those who have written about how
| putting thoughts into words tends to change those thoughts:
| "You can know a great deal about something without writing
| about it. Can you ever know so much that you wouldn't learn
| more from trying to explain what you know? I don't think
| so." https://paulgraham.com/words.html
| magicalist wrote:
| > _I 'm not sure that's his intent, or not_
|
| I'll just say at the very least there's _no_ evidence in
| the text itself this is his intent. In fact, he blows
| right past his observations about himself to underline
| how magical letting other people be kind is, so it doesn
| 't appear to me that he's ruminating on himself.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| "...and then admits he is not willing to be so generous
| himself"
|
| That was not my impression. The confessed feeling guilt that he
| might _not_ be able to have done the same--but I don 't recall
| him saying that he absolutely would not have.
|
| (And in fact I believe he can put his doubts aside-- he
| probably would have done the same. Considering it in the
| abstract is different than when you come face to face with the
| choice.)
| magicalist wrote:
| > _The confessed feeling guilt that he might not be able to
| have done the same_
|
| I don't know; it's very _human_ , certainly, to feel that way
| and have that doubt about yourself, but I don't see any
| evidence of guilt in the text, or even a hand wave at wanting
| to work on that feeling or himself.
|
| Even though I love the point it seems he's trying to make,
| the post definitely rubbed me the wrong way in that it reads
| as taking help you don't need from people who need it more,
| and the reward for them is they get to help someone, and the
| reward for you is that you get free stuff and be a tourist
| marveling at how kind everyone they meet is.
|
| There's definitely a different way to write this article that
| doesn't feel like that, and it's not clear to me whether or
| not the author wrote it this way because they don't see the
| difference.
| luqtas wrote:
| as written on the emerald tablet once: "That which is above is
| like to that which is below, and that which is below is like to
| that which is above".
|
| i have received MONEY from poor/working class people on my
| hitchhike and voluteer trip. i always refused but ALL of them
| never accepted the refusal. hospitality/food i think it's not
| even considered a donation/gift for most people who helped me
| over that year. sometimes you are part of all their forgotten
| teen dreams. sometimes you are someone they can talk freely
| about anything. that has no price too
| nathan_compton wrote:
| This is what Christianity _says_ its message is, but one can
| credibly read quite a few other core messages into what various
| types of Christians do.
| krapp wrote:
| The problem with a religion where all it takes is one weird
| ritual to remain blameless in the eyes of God forever is that
| it's easy to let a lot of shit slide. Christians always say
| "we're not perfect, we're just forgiven."
|
| So even though that _is_ Christianity 's message,
| Christianity's _metagame_ means if you take it seriously, you
| don 't actually _have_ to put in the work. You 're still
| going to Heaven because grace is through faith and not works.
| igneo676 wrote:
| You've been dealing with the wrong folks then because all
| Christians should believe what James says when we says
|
| James 2:14-20, 26 (NET) What good is it, my brothers and
| sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have
| works? Can this kind of faith save him? If a brother or
| sister is poorly clothed and lacks daily food, and one of
| you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm and eat well,"
| but you do not give them what the body needs, what good is
| it? So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being
| by itself. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have
| works." Show me your faith without works and I will show
| you faith by my works. You believe that God is one; well
| and good. Even the demons believe that - and tremble with
| fear. But would you like evidence, you empty fellow, that
| faith without works is useless? For just as the body
| without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is
| dead.
| 1shooner wrote:
| >all Christians should believe
|
| I think this is the point being made: your 'should', and
| by extension your quote, has no meaning when grace is
| defined as the single goal of spiritual life, and then is
| reduced to a simple transaction.
| igneo676 wrote:
| Sure, people are free to believe whatever. I am quoting
| the very scripture they claim to believe though and so it
| would be hypocritical to do otherwise
|
| The term we have for those folks is that they're doing
| "easy-believism" and it's broadly a pitfall within
| Christianity. It's not considered normative to so heavily
| lean on grace in the way that you're describing
| afpx wrote:
| Interestingly, the New Testament forewarns that the church
| will attract all kinds of sinful people, too: hypocrites,
| Pharisees, abusers, false prophets, false teachers,
| "wolves", and those of dead faith as you mention. Jesus and
| the apostles consistently assume corruption, misuse of
| authority, and false prophets will exist.
|
| This is further reflected in the biblical distinction
| between the visible and invisible church and Jesus' parable
| of the wheat and the tares: genuine followers and the
| others grow together until the final judgment.
|
| So, many people know that only a small minority of
| "Christians" are actually faithful followers of Jesus (i.e.
| regularly read Scripture and live in obedience to it). And,
| some estimates place this number as low as 1%.
| rachel-ftw wrote:
| Stories like this always feel a little bittersweet. It's
| beautiful, but women would be in potential danger in situations
| like these.
|
| And I say that as someone who has spent years the world traveling
| alone and isn't afraid of humanity and agrees that the kindness
| of people is one of the most precious and Hope-building things in
| the world.
| Fiveplus wrote:
| I couldn't help but focus on the vicarious adventure aspect Kelly
| mentions which was the "payment" he offered drivers in exchange
| for the ride. This is a mechanism that has largely been
| deprecated by the modern attention economy.
|
| In the era of hitchhiking, the bandwidth for novelty was low. A
| driver on a long commute had no podcasts, no Spotify or
| audiobooks. A stranger with a story was high value. The
| transaction was something like = I provide logistics and you
| provide content; like the story of your cross-country bike trip.
|
| Today, we have near infinite content in our pockets. The marginal
| utility of a stranger's story has plummeted because the
| competition is Joe Rogan or an endless algorithmic feed. We have
| largely replaced the P2P protocol of kindness with a sort of
| centralized platform of service. We stripped out the human
| latency and the requirement for social reciprocity and replaced
| it with currency and star ratings. It makes me surreal to think
| about this.
| dheera wrote:
| > replaced it with currency and star ratings
|
| In addition, the socioeconomic gaps are wider. So much so that
| the software engineer rushing to their 10am meeting doesn't
| want your $50. The Uber driver does, though.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I've seen it work the other way: some evangelical Christians
| picked me and friend up in Alaska and spent the whole ride
| proselytizing, ha ha.
| dpc050505 wrote:
| I got picked up by a born again christian women hitch-hiking
| in the interior of British Columbia. She was telling us about
| smoking pot with her friends at a retirement home. Good times
| ryandrake wrote:
| > Today, we have near infinite content in our pockets. The
| marginal utility of a stranger's story has plummeted because
| the competition is Joe Rogan or an endless algorithmic feed.
|
| Not just strangers. The content tentacle reaches even deeper.
| You can go to a restaurant and see two people (presumably
| partners, who know and love one another, or friends who at
| least like to hang out together) sitting together separately
| scrolling their phones, lost down their own personal content-
| holes. When Joe Rogan is more interesting than talking about
| your day with your spouse or friend, I think it's pretty sad,
| and indicates a even bigger problem.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| To be fair, you don't know if that couple is just out for
| dinner because they didn't make anything at home that day.
| You don't know if they've been around eachother and off their
| phones for the past 24 hours. I have the opposite anecdotal
| experience to yours. Lots of people at restaurants are not on
| their phones but I've also stopped caring to look honestly.
| vkou wrote:
| Or maybe one of them is responding to another human being
| in their life over their phone, and as that results in a
| break in conversation, the other person starts using
| theirs.
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| One question could be: which set of people know more about
| each other at the end of dinner.
|
| Dinner time used to be a time of the day where couples and
| families would have the first chance since breakfast to
| discuss their day. With all of different available forms of
| communication today, my partner and I already know what
| happened during the other's day and we are doing something
| like planning the next adventure.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| > When Joe Rogan is more interesting than talking about your
| day with your spouse or friend ...
|
| ... you may (just may!) have been married for a rather long
| time. I still think that is sad, but in a different sort of
| way than it would be for younger couples/pairs.
| bee_rider wrote:
| I think maybe this happens in waves? I've been with my SO a
| while, over a decade at least, so we've run through the
| backlog of stories. But there's usually at least one or two
| new things to talk about from our independent lives. I
| guess if we were both retired, we would probably spend less
| time apart, and have less time to accumulate stories the
| other didn't know about.
|
| Although sometimes we just play the crossword, taking turns
| on one of our phones, when waiting for the waiter.
| zoeysmithe wrote:
| Rogan pushes fairly regressive and misogynistic narratives,
| so I would expect a "Rogan guy" to not have a great
| relationship with his wife and would not at all be
| surprised they stopped getting along or just lacked a lot
| in common anymore, unless she's also a Rogan type.
| JALTU wrote:
| Put another way, we are all competing with professional
| entertainers now. Sink or swim...
| phkahler wrote:
| >> In the era of hitchhiking, the bandwidth for novelty was
| low. A driver on a long commute had no podcasts, no Spotify or
| audiobooks. A stranger with a story was high value.
|
| Haha! In the 90's I picked up a hitchhiker on the Pensylvania
| turnpike. I thought 'oh, someone to talk to". After a brief
| conversation he said where to wake him up and slept until we
| were there...
| KingMob wrote:
| That's true, but hitchhiking declined in the late 70's, well
| before podcasts, Spotify, satellite radio, or even books on
| tape, so the availability of alternate content can't have been
| a factor.
|
| Instead, I've heard a variety of alternative reasons for the
| decline in hitchhiking:
|
| - govt and media fearmongering about dangerous hitchhikers -
| increased police enforcement - higher rates of car ownership -
| the Interstate Highway System made pulling over safely more
| difficult
| bityard wrote:
| Well, you're not wrong about novelty being a much rarer thing
| in the past but people rarely drove alone in total silence.
| 8-tracks and cassettes came along eventually but even before
| then, people listened to the radio which had a wide variety of
| music, news, sports, and call-in shows. Truckers had CB radios
| and would talk to other truckers and drivers to pass the time.
|
| Those who didn't see much of the world before the last two
| decades have this impression that everyone was far less
| connected to the world and each other before the Internet.
| That's not strictly true... the Internet made long-distance
| connections and access to content easier, but the ease of
| access to entertainment (namely, social media) has greatly
| weakened local connections.
| egypturnash wrote:
| I saw somewhere here saying they want some kind of AI
| appliance that learns their regular commute and warns them
| about traffic and construction and I was like, dude, every
| radio station had regular traffic reports from helicopter
| pilots through the whole morning and evening drive times.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| An individualized report tailored to your route at your
| time is much higher utility than periodic reports of a few
| popular routes provided at random intervals.
|
| Also, all the big map apps already provide real time
| traffic so not sure what LLMs ("AI") bring to the table.
| switchbak wrote:
| I dunno, I've picked up my share of hitchhikers and to me it
| wasn't about being a trade, it's about sharing presence and our
| stories. Not a transaction, but just sharing.
|
| One time I was stopped on a single lane highway in the
| mountains, in driving rain, as a power pole was blocking the
| road. A fellow commuter was in the same boat, but he was on a
| motorcycle. I invited him in my car and we just chilled and
| shared some light conversation. No trade, nothing gained
| besides someone offering a little shelter to another.
| pizzathyme wrote:
| I would encourage people to test this out for themselves, I
| think you will find a different result. People today are
| starved for in-person connection, but are afraid to initiate
| the conversation.
|
| This doesn't come naturally to me, but after working on it over
| a few years, 95% of the time strangers are excited to chat and
| say hi and make a friend.
| jkingsman wrote:
| You mentioned working on it -- do you have a particular
| strategy, venue, or opening line/guiding ethos that you find
| works well?
|
| I love making friends with strangers, but usually rely on the
| "handshake protocol" of a casual observation or small talk
| that is then accepted (with a similar slight-deepening or
| extension of the thought) or rejected (casual assent or no
| response at all), until the bandwidth opens and I can foster
| a more meaningful moment of connection with a pivot like "Oh
| awesome that you do $THING for work. Do you enjoy what you
| do?" or "Oh I don't know much about $LOCATION_YOURE_FROM.
| Good spot for a vacation, or good spot to drive straight
| through?"
|
| As somewhere between "thinks like an engineer" and "on the
| spectrum," I really enjoy hearing others' strategies or
| optimizations (optimizing for quality, connection, warmth)
| for social situations.
| cal_dent wrote:
| FWIW I think you're already doing the thing. That's it. But
| I'd suggest trying not to care too much about optimisation.
| It's unnecessary in my view because it implicit puts goals
| & outcomes as the end, when it's, ore about meandering and
| seeing where things go, endless possibilities.
| technothrasher wrote:
| > "Oh I don't know much about $LOCATION_YOURE_FROM."
|
| I always love the most to chat with strangers in line or
| wherever when I'm in a foreign country, as there's so much
| good dirt for digging with someone from a far away place.
| It's funny, though, the number of times I strike up a
| conversation with someone halfway around the world only to
| find out they live within a few miles of me. Last time I
| was in London, for example, the lady in line in front of me
| had an Australian accent, and I always enjoy talking to
| Aussies. Yep, she was an Aussie... Who lives a few towns
| over from me in the US, in the same apartment complex my
| wife lived in when I met her.
| cal_dent wrote:
| I'd echo this.
|
| There does feel like some wide resignation (more so with
| younger people <35 if I can generalise a bit) that we're too
| far gone everyone being closed off. But I've generally found
| that there is no real resolve to that resignation. Many just
| do not want to, or feel comfortable, making the start. Once
| the start is done though, the pleasantness of the experience
| is generally visible.
| diob wrote:
| Exactly this. I don't do it much in the USA to be honest, but
| when traveling.
| NaOH wrote:
| It's a choice. I go to the supermarket twice a week, not
| shopping for much. I switched the store I use three, four
| months ago, but I can already talk about some of the employees
| at the store I visit. Louis is back where he grew up right now
| because his 97-year-old grandfather died. Among other things,
| he feels lucky grandpa's passing came after the new year
| because of his time-off allotment. Nikki had great holidays,
| mostly because her adult daughter was here for a week. Nadine
| ("Shh.") has decided she's going to retire at the end of the
| month but hasn't yet told anyone at the store.
|
| Raffy, the UPS delivery guy I see maybe five times a year? He's
| doing well, finally feeling things slowing down some after the
| holidays. His fiance will finish her graduate degree this
| spring, then they're going to decide if they want to stay here
| or move back to the state where they were born. They like it
| here, but think job opportunities will be better back home.
|
| I'm sure many here are familiar with "This is Water," the
| commencement speech given by David Foster Wallace. Many often
| cite his line, "Everybody worships," his observation that we
| all hold aspects of life in reverence, whether religious things
| or otherwise. It's a valid, pithy point, but I always thought
| the key part to his speech comes later and has been widely
| overlooked:
|
| _And the so-called real world will not discourage you from
| operating on your default settings, because the so-called real
| world of men and money and power hums merrily along in a pool
| of fear and anger and frustration and craving and worship of
| self. Our own present culture has harnessed these forces in
| ways that have yielded extraordinary wealth and comfort and
| personal freedom. The freedom all to be lords of our tiny
| skull-sized kingdoms, alone at the centre of all creation. This
| kind of freedom has much to recommend it. But of course there
| are all different kinds of freedom, and the kind that is most
| precious you will not hear much talk about much in the great
| outside world of wanting and achieving.... The really important
| kind of freedom involves attention and awareness and
| discipline, and being able truly to care about other people and
| to sacrifice for them over and over in myriad petty, unsexy
| ways every day._
|
| He delivered that speech in 2005. Before the modern smartphone.
| All those people I mentioned earlier were strangers. That's no
| longer the case because all of us chose to interrupt what we
| were doing and open up a little to someone unfamiliar. It's a
| choice. Or, as Bob Dylan once sang,
|
| Freedom, just around the corner from you
|
| But with truth so far off, what good will it do
| defrim wrote:
| this comment was beautiful. In my younger years, I used to be
| so embarrassed when I'd go grocery shopping or elsewhere with
| my mother and she would ask about service people's lives and
| stories. I used to hate it and feel uncomfortable and wonder
| what the point even was.
|
| Thank you for completely changing my perspective, on
| something I haven't thought about in a long time
| cal_dent wrote:
| Ahhhhhh I love this and love that you referenced This Is
| Water something I've held dear to me as my default perception
| of life. There's so much to the world which we can access on
| our very doorstep, we just need to open up to it.
|
| It's an easy thing to forget if you don't do it consistently
| enough to be 2nd nature.
| zoeysmithe wrote:
| I dont think this is it as we've had radio and music since the
| 50s and mp3 audiobooks since the early 2000's.
|
| I think this is just the communal values of that society. Its
| not entirely some weird transaction about being entertained,
| and that's just a really mercenary way to see human life.
|
| A lot of cultures, especially in more rural areas, pity or feel
| responsibility for people walking far and will just offer them
| rides. Especially if there's risk in that area from storms or
| criminals or wild animals. Its something we've been doing since
| forever. I don't think its based on entertainment. I think
| talking and sharing is just a normal part of being human.
| thunderbong wrote:
| That was wonderful writing. As we go through the daily grind of
| life, we forget how privileged we are to be alive.
|
| I found the following two paragraphs truly incredible.
|
| > All of us begin in the same place. Whether sinner or saint, we
| are not owed our life. Our existence is an unnecessary
| extravagance, a wild gesture, an unearned gift. Not just at
| birth. The eternal surprise is being funneled to us daily,
| hourly, minute by minute, every second. As you read these words,
| you are rinsed with the gift of time. Yet, we are terrible
| recipients. We are no good at being helpless, humble, or
| indebted. Being needy is not celebrated on day-time TV shows, or
| in self-help books. We make lousy kindees.
|
| > I've slowly changed my mind about spiritual faith. I once
| thought it was chiefly about believing in an unseen reality; that
| it had a lot in common with hope. But after many years of
| examining the lives of the people whose spiritual character I
| most respect, I've come to see that their faith rests on
| gratitude, rather than hope. The beings I admire exude a sense of
| knowing they are indebted, of resting upon a state thankfulness.
| They recognize they are at the receiving end of an ongoing lucky
| ticket called being alive. When the truly faithful worry, it's
| not about doubt (which they have); it's about how they might not
| maximize the tremendous gift given them. How they might be
| ungrateful by squandering their ride. The faithful I admire are
| not certain about much except this: that this state of being
| embodied, inflated with life, brimming with possibilities, is so
| over-the-top unlikely, so extravagant, so unconditional, so far
| out beyond physical entropy, that is it indistinguishable from
| love. And most amazing of all, like my hitchhiking rides, this
| love gift is an extravagant gesture you can count on. This is the
| meta-miracle: that the miracle of gifts is so dependable. No
| matter how bad the weather, soiled the past, broken the heart,
| hellish the war - all that is behind the universe is conspiring
| to help you - if you will let it.
| magicalist wrote:
| > _I'd like to think that I would without hesitation drive far
| out of my way to bring a sick traveler to the hospital (in the
| Philippines), but I am having trouble seeing myself emptying my
| bank account to purchase a boat ticket for someone who has more
| money than I do. And if I were a cold drink seller in Oman, I
| would definitely not give cold drinks away for free just
| because the recipient was a guest in my poor country. But those
| kind of illogical blessings happen when you are open to a
| gift._
| exdeejay_ wrote:
| inedible?
| monktastic1 wrote:
| Indelible, probably -- though I admit that both trying to eat
| and trying to delete that passage failed. (I jest --
| "impossible to forget," of course.)
| thunderbong wrote:
| Interesting! I meant "incredible", though. Fixed now.
| thunderbong wrote:
| Thanks. Fixed.
| fwipsy wrote:
| I'm trying to square this guy's experience with all of the
| homeless people who don't seem nearly so lucky. Or perhaps they
| are being helped and supported and I don't see it?
|
| I agree with others here that the notion of relying on others so
| completely makes me feel uncomfortable, like I'm a burden. But I
| think that's part of what the author intends to draw attention
| to. Wouldn't a world where everyone freely supports each other,
| even if it's not needed, be a more pleasant place, and a safer
| place, than one where everyone looks out for themselves? Is a
| community where each member is only kind to other members who can
| reciprocate really kind, or just cooperative? Each act of
| kindness was given freely, and I assume the more extravagant
| examples were unasked. When you give something to others, you
| gain something yourself. As long as he's not misrepresenting his
| situation (e.g. claiming to be a victim or refugee) I don't think
| he's really doing something wrong - just something that goes
| against highly competitive big-city western values, which neither
| he nor the givers seem to share.
| supern0va wrote:
| >I'm trying to square this guy's experience with all of the
| homeless people who don't seem nearly so lucky. Or perhaps they
| are being helped and supported and I don't see it?
|
| I get that, but I do witness a lot of compassion and help
| directed to homeless folks. However, even if they're regularly
| gifted by strangers, it's likely not enough to materially
| change their situation.
|
| I would suggest that the staggering efficacy of panhandling
| does demonstrate how remarkably willing strangers are willing
| to help a rough looking homeless person on a street. And beyond
| that, there are a lot of invisible homeless (the ones not
| struggling with mental health or drug issues) that remain off
| the streets because people in their community will give them a
| few days on a couch here or there, or help fix their car, give
| them a place to park a trailer, etc.
|
| In my neighborhood, there's a homeless man that lives in a
| camper trailer in the back yard of some neighbors. They just
| met him one day and offered him a stable piece of land to be
| and help him out as they can. He comes around asking us
| neighbors for lawn care work and such to earn some money, which
| is how I learned about the situation.
| lukeschlather wrote:
| > I get that, but I do witness a lot of compassion and help
| directed to homeless folks. However, even if they're
| regularly gifted by strangers, it's likely not enough to
| materially change their situation.
|
| When I've looked at the data, the majority of homeless people
| have been homeless less than 12 months. This means that the
| majority of homeless people who benefit from support will use
| it to get out of that situation quickly. And for the most
| part, if you give help it will be immediately and materially
| useful.
| pizzathyme wrote:
| Speaking as someone who worked for the SF bay area's largest
| homeless shelter nonprofit:
|
| People who end up homeless long-term usually have negative
| social behaviors that push others away. When you help them,
| they don't tell an interesting story, they act angry or yell at
| you. When you give them money, they don't make you feel you
| happy, they make you feel afraid or annoyed.
|
| This is unfortunately often due to mental health issues or drug
| problems. It's very sad, and ends up completely isolating them
| from all friends, family, and strangers who could help them.
|
| Edit: This article actually puts this into clear terms, long
| term homeless people are poor "kindees"
| Supermancho wrote:
| > I'm trying to square this guy's experience with all of the
| homeless people who don't seem nearly so lucky.
|
| Although I don't think there's an image to confirm, "Informed
| Attractiveness", aka "Pretty people are always happy to espouse
| how friendly strangers are to them" - probably applies. There's
| also simple charisma which carries a long way. I wouldn't say I
| was ever super hot (maybe a 7 at one point), but I can point to
| many situations where I benefitted from being attractive (in
| appearance, action, or mannerism). Some tangled beard doesn't
| change host most people perceive me.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I did the hitchhiking thing in my 20's. Up to Alaska and back. I
| know what he describes.
|
| I wish everyone could have some experience like this. Because,
| like Kevin, I also have a positive view about strangers, about my
| fellow humans. And I have met a lot of people (friends,
| coworkers) where I recognize in them a fearfulness of the world.
| And I used to be like that too.
|
| It really is a different and a wonderful world I think when you
| lose your fear of it.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| From what I have heard, women in their 20s have a materially
| higher probability of experiencing the opposite.
| Noaidi wrote:
| Would you have a positive view about me, a homeless older man
| with schizoacffective disorder? Not looking for an answer, I
| just wan that in your head.
| animal_spirits wrote:
| I think the ending is worth reading to; to me this was not an
| essay showcasing a travel philosophy of reliance on others, but
| rather to express an easy to dismiss notion that you are not
| alone, and there are people that can and will look out for you.
| temp0826 wrote:
| I guess I've been struggling incorrectly.
| jepj57 wrote:
| Beautiful story. One Christmas Eve I ( with my kids in the car)
| picked up a hitchiker. His name was Christian, and he was headed
| to our church. I went out of my way, and dropped him off in the
| parking lot. I felt blessed to have helped him.
| OfficialTurkey wrote:
| I've been lucky enough to have a couple big adventures in my
| life, including living in China for a while as a teenager and
| later hiking the Pacific Crest Trail (from Mexico to Canada).
| This has been exactly my experience.
|
| On the PCT, in Mount Shasta while my friends and I were waiting
| to be seated at Black Bear Diner, an older gentleman came up and
| asked us about the hike. After talking for five minutes he told
| us he wanted to buy us breakfast and handed me a 100 dollar bill.
| I have dozens of such stories -- it was always easy to find a
| hitch into and out of town and often I would be offered a room to
| stay in. It's hard to describe but when you're an a quest, big or
| small, people just really want to help. Over the course of the
| trail I came to agree with the author: these people were doing me
| a kindness, yes, but I was also paying with experience, stories,
| levity.
|
| I agree with the other commenters that one can't always be a
| kindee. Next time you're driving up the west coast and see a
| dirty hike with a dirty pack, pick them up :^)
| Noaidi wrote:
| This world today is so cruel, no one cares for their own life or
| the life of others. I am mentally ill and homeless. Why? Why do
| all of you let this happen? Why does Kevin Kelly let this happen?
| He is am optimist only because he has not seen reality.
|
| Passages like the following are telling someone like me, the man
| with nothing, to help or else I will get no help? Just accept
| that no one has helped me for six years even though I do help
| others? And worse yet, to help rich people like him?
|
| "Receiving help on the road is a spiritual event triggered by a
| traveler who surrenders his or her fate to the eternal Good. It's
| a move away from whether we will be helped, to how: how will the
| miracle unfold today? In what novel manner will Good reveal
| itself? Who will the universe send today to carry away my gift of
| trust and helplessness?"
|
| That is just the same "power of positivity" wrapped up in new
| writing. Because no one here will rent me an apartment for 1/3 of
| my disability income. I have surrendered to my fate more than
| one. Maybe I did not do it right? Can you tell me how to do it
| right Mr. Kelly?
|
| "We are at the receiving end of a huge gift simply by being
| alive." That is easy to say when you are Kevin Kelly who seems to
| still have the silver spoon in his mouth. Hey Kevin, why don't
| you help by being more like the Christian you say you are, sell
| all of your belongings and help the mentally ill like Christ
| tells you to do?
|
| Until I see him do this, all his words are meaningless.
|
| I know I am privileged to be alive, but that privileged is abused
| by the rich boomers like KK (I am in my late 50's).
| yks wrote:
| When I read these enjoyable posts, I agree, but then the thought
| creeps in that the human experience is not all that bliss.
| Thoughts about the Russian soldiers raping Ukrainians and putting
| the grenade booby traps into the children toys (replace with
| other war experiences of your choice), or about parts of our
| society idolizing insecure men being cruel and inevitable murder
| of innocent bystanders that happens then.
|
| Of course the author had a great experience, he's a weird white
| American somewhere unexpected, the embodiment of a "traveler"
| archetype. Would that Swedish person give their car keys to a
| random Roma on their doorstep? Yeah no.
|
| I don't know where I'm going with this rant. "Check your
| privilege" screeds are overused. Being kind, on the other hand,
| isn't.
| munificent wrote:
| Yeah, it's a good article, but the dissonance between this
| today and the death of Renee Good is so hard to reconcile.
| Certainly no miracle happened for her that day.
| siavosh wrote:
| I feel like there's something in the zeitgeist happening. I've
| only become aware recently of the 'gift economy' but I'm seeing
| more and more people post things related.
| nicbou wrote:
| Does anyone else feel a sort of anxiety in those situations? I've
| been on such trips and I would rather not sleep at all than ask a
| stranger for help. When I'm in a position to help, I am delighted
| to do so, but also scared of offering.
|
| How does one get over that fear?
| Aromasin wrote:
| Like all skills; practice. Push through the fear enough times
| that you learn to love it.
|
| When I was in the military, we once had an exercise which
| consisted of our troop leaders dropping 60 of us in Edinburgh
| (Scotland) with nothing on our person except for a cheap film
| camera. We had to complete a list of challenges with different
| scores, that varied from "eat a free meal" to "play a hole at
| St Andrews golf course". We were picked up the following day
| (meaning we had to find a place to sleep the night) and had to
| debrief the group on what challenges we managed to complete
| with video evidence. To be honest, it completely changed my
| world view in a weekend.
|
| We had guys who talked their way into an airfield, miles away
| from where we started, and convinced a random pilot to give
| them a spin in his private aircraft. One group managed to get
| the castle guards to let them fire the daily One O'Clock Gun
| from the top of Edinburgh castle. Another did manage to play
| the first hole of St Andrews (PS340 a round, and a 2 hour drive
| away!). We had people crash a wedding, sew up a kilt, learn to
| play the bagpipes; it was carnage in the best kind of way.
|
| All of that was done just by asking. At the start of the day,
| everyone was awkward and embarrased. By the end of day two, we
| all just wanted to see how much further we could take it. Turns
| out that sometimes all your inhibitions do is get in the way of
| a fun time and a great story.
| sdellis wrote:
| "Instead of believing everyone is out to get you, you believe
| everyone is out to help you."
|
| Worst advice I have ever heard.
| robocat wrote:
| Beautiful and disturbing.
|
| So many people around the world are so wonderfully generous with
| everything, and we should celebrate that.
|
| However mooching off others is weird.
|
| It is a fine thing to graciously accept generosity. And it is a
| fine thing to graciously offer generosity without expectations.
|
| It gets difficult when the generous are poor if they choose to
| give. It can be hard to decline without being offensive.
|
| I have lived for lengths of time basically at the generosity of
| others (not poor, including the dole in my wealthy country) so I
| shouldn't fault the guy. However, I have also tried to give back,
| and now I'm older I also try and pay it forward. Certainly I've
| given >10x back to the government (I'm taxed highly in my country
| - and I dislike thinking about taxation as something you ever get
| back).
|
| His story is a simplification of the modern world. We are often
| given so much by our society and it can be difficult to give
| fairly back to society.
|
| Yet for some reason his writing recalls me of You can't win by
| Jack Black https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/69404
| We went back to the fire and discussed breakfast. "Nothing but
| Java," said the bum that had the coffee. "I'll go to
| the farmhouse," I volunteered, "and buy something."
| "Nix, nix," said one; "buy nothin'," said the other, "it's you
| kind of cats that
|
| make it tough on us, buyin' chuck. They begin to expect money.
| You go up to that house," pointing to a place on a small rise,
| about fifteen minutes' walk, "and tell the woman you and two
| other kids run away from home in the city three days ago and you
| ain't had nothin' but a head of cabbage that fell off a farmer's
| wagon between youse since you left. Tell her you are on your way
| back home and the other two kids are down by the bridge so hungry
| they can't walk. On your way up there git a phony name and street
| number ready in case she asks you questions. She'll give you a
| sit-down for yourself, chances are, but bring back a 'lump' for
| us. You're a decent-lookin' kid; she might git worked up about
| your troubles and ask a lot of dam' fool questions.
| Cut her off. Tell her you're ashamed to be settin' there wasting
| time and the other boys starvin' under the bridge."
| Before I got to the house a couple of dogs dashed out, barking
| savagely. A healthy, matronly woman came out and quieted them,
| looking at me inquiringly. I told her myself and two boy friends,
| runaways from home, were hungry and I wanted some food, that I
| would be glad to pay her for anything she could spare, and if she
| would wrap it up I would hurry down to the bridge with it, where
| my chums were waiting. "Yes," she said kindly, "come
| in. I haven't much here, but maybe I can find enough." She gave
| me a seat outside near the kitchen door, where I waited and made
| friends with the dogs. In no time she came out with a large
| parcel, and refused the money I offered. I thanked her and went
| down to the bridge with my "lump." The bums had coffee
| boiling. We found enough tin cans to drink from and opened the
| parcel. It contained cold, fried chicken, cold biscuits, and half
| a pie. "You're a good connecter, kid; sure you didn't
| pay for this?" one of them said.
| ericmcer wrote:
| Really nice article, but it sort of flies in the face of all our
| biological imperatives.
|
| Being a good "kindee" means forgoing security, control and some
| safety.
|
| Constant Gratitude for just the miracle of life means forgoing
| the driving dissatisfaction that will push you ahead.
|
| This is the classic battle between our ancient biological
| impulses and the reality of modern society. Many religions try to
| square these: Buddhisms central focus is to "stop grasping" your
| desires, Christianity wants you to "surrender" and put your faith
| in god. And then you also have articles like this that have a
| vague spiritual bent but mostly preach mindfulness and gratitude
| as a balm to our general dissatisfaction. Do we still need
| constant anxiety around our safety, do we still need to feel
| dissatisfied with each achievement and constantly want more? Or
| were those just useful imperatives for an animal 50,000 years ago
| but useless to us today?
|
| In my personal life I have momentary success being
| mindful/grateful, but the bare reality is we are the product of
| millions of years of life being a short cruel struggle, fraught
| with danger. Does modern society give us the right to throw all
| that away and pretend we get to float around observing the beauty
| of the world? Or is our life supposed to be a battle?
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| Care doesn't scale
|
| Harm scales trivially
|
| And it's not a question of "not everything needs to scale"
|
| If there's anything that needs to scale its care and there are
| thermodynamic limits to that because singular individuals need
| magnitudes more care than any specific individual can provide
|
| For example I had to go to the emergency room last night and the
| number of people who were involved in my care was at least 7
| people
|
| So let's say you have millions of individuals with zero care and
| support networks who need more than a single individual can care
| for them
|
| That means you need some multiple of individuals who have access
| energetic capacity to care for all of the individuals who do not
| have support or care structures for the ability to do it
| individually
|
| The fact of the matter is of the 8 billion people who live on the
| planet, there does not exist another 16 billion people who are
| servicing them to make sure that they have the care that they
| need
|
| But thermodynamics requires those 16 billion excess people to
| provide inputs to care for the 8 billion
|
| Turchin describes this as elite overproduction theory. And I'm
| not saying it is correct and I'm certainly not saying it's
| normative, but I do believe that there is a level of
| descriptiveness here that makes the mathematics of "care"
| impossible to solve with the atomic unit of human.
| roughly wrote:
| What's interesting about this post is that it would be completely
| unsurprising to most people in most parts of the world, as well
| as most people here 100 years ago. The discomfort so many people
| in this thread feel with receiving kindness and the devaluing of
| the gift of companionship, gratitude, and a good story is a
| testament to how far off human norms our society is these days.
|
| I struggle with this a lot myself - I've had to overcome deep
| feelings of inadequacy and insecurity because I never valued what
| I offered people just by being present and because I always felt
| like I had to "square the books" - that every interaction or
| relationship was an exchange that needed to square its ledgers.
| The best thing for my mental health has been to become
| comfortable just being with people and accepting their continued
| presence and return to my company as something that doesn't
| require an exchange - that human companionship and kindness are
| things we enjoy as people, not services to be itemized and
| accounted for.
|
| One interesting note on this is that it's not just an "old world"
| phenomenon - if you look at many old farmhouses across the
| midwest, they've got a separate covered section that's accessible
| from outside the house - the assumption was that travelers
| passing by could and would spend the night there, and often the
| owners would have supplies of oatcakes or other durable
| foodstuffs for travelers, because everyone who traveled needed
| somewhere to stay or something to eat at some point, and
| reciprocity could be assumed when the homeowner traveled
| themselves in the future.
| eightys3v3n wrote:
| It seems some commenters feel the author was taking advantage of
| all those people who helped them. I disagree.
|
| I think they are missing a large part of the situation through
| lack of experience, a selfish focus, or some other different
| perspective I don't understand. I very much doubt that any of the
| people who helped him along his travels thought he was in dire
| straights and needed the resources more than they did (which
| might be fraud if he had lots of resources and refused to use
| them in favour of lying to others to take their resources). I
| don't think someone who picks up a hitch hiker does so because
| they think the other person will die if they don't so it's worth
| the driver being taken advantage of.
|
| I would be willing to share resources if someone knocked on my
| door and asked to camp in my backyar; for pretty much nothing but
| the expectation of mutual respect between myself, them, and the
| rest of society. Though I would also offer a meal for the chance
| to hear about what they were doing and why. No part of that
| situation involves me thinking they Need my backyard or Need to
| be fed to live. In fact, I would do it thinking they left a job
| and a normal life and chose the journey they're on; my assumption
| would be that when they were finished they would move back to a
| more regular life. Where I would have a problem is if the person
| seemed clearly intent on living like that their whole life;
| taking without giving. So in a way, my expectation is that the
| person is giving back in the experiences and stories they share
| with others, in the knowledge and experience they take back into
| a regular life; I will happily contribute to that. I don't think
| this changes regardless of how much someone has so I don't think
| it matters if someone from Canada travels Africa for example. I
| don't see any reason to believe he was lying to people to make
| them feel sorry for him.
|
| Another aspect is that often he was indirectly selecting for
| people who were willing to share resources. By hitch hiking one
| is excluding anyone who feels they and society get no value from
| this person. One is excluding anyone who feels they would be
| taken advantage of by helping a hitch hiker. Those kinds of
| people just don't stop the car. Therefore anyone who helped him
| was obviously willing to do so and felt they would benefit more
| than what they expended to help.
| patrickmay wrote:
| I think the lesson to take from this is "Who's miracle can I be
| today?"
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| > one might even call the act of accepting generosity a type of
| compassion. The compassion of being kinded.
|
| When reading this, I can suddenly relate. There's a colleage who
| always smiles but I know she's hurt inside. Sometimes in a quiet
| moment I try to comfort her with careful listening, kind words
| and genuine advice. She's very receptive and thankful to this act
| of kindness and I find it a pleasure to be kind to her. The
| reward is so high that it almost feels compassionate towards me.
| shakil wrote:
| Lots of interesting things in this miraculous story, but I can
| assure you none of these miracles would happen without the two
| words completely left out of the article: white privilege
| mpin3247 wrote:
| white man experience
| voxleone wrote:
| Radical openness can slide into naivete if it ignores power,
| incentives, and bad actors. "Be vulnerable and good things will
| happen" is only true in constrained contexts, where norms,
| reciprocity, and consequences exist. Outside those, vulnerability
| can absolutely be exploited.
|
| Ina perfect world openness is not surrender; humility is not
| passivity; trust is not indiscriminate access.
| brushfoot wrote:
| In summary, a wealthy westerner travels the world, asking the
| poor for favors. He eventually comes to believe that enlightened
| spirituality rests primarily on gratitude. (One can't imagine
| why.)
|
| He then proceeds to passive-aggressively browbeat readers who
| aren't as grateful as he is for the "lucky ticket called being
| alive."
|
| Has it occurred to him that perhaps it was _his_ ticket that was
| lucky? It certainly seems luckier than that of the Filipino
| family who opened their "last can of tinned meat" to feed him, a
| volitional vagabond.
|
| If there's anything worth reading here, it's the reminder that
| altruism is more prevalent than individualists sometimes expect.
| The rest is frankly stomach-turning.
| cal_dent wrote:
| More so about this thread than the post, but I think it's a shame
| that so many immediately go to the edge cases of safety concerns
| (parricularly for women) or strangers with difficult mental
| illnesses. I don't want to belittle or dismiss those concerns, as
| they do exist, but letting that limit potential possibilities
| feels like a unnecessarily limited life.
|
| Granted I'm lucky enough that in my travels and general life
| nothing awful has happened to me but opening yourself to your
| fellow peers on this tiny planet is such a core part of existence
| that we should find ways of making this happen. It doesn't need
| to be picking up hitchhikers, they're millions of relatively risk
| free interactions out there. Dive in.
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