[HN Gopher] Report: Microsoft kills official way to activate Win...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Report: Microsoft kills official way to activate Windows 11/10
       without internet
        
       Author : taubek
       Score  : 312 points
       Date   : 2026-01-03 18:53 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.neowin.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.neowin.net)
        
       | xiconfjs wrote:
       | ,,just like the gypsy woman said"
        
       | alex1138 wrote:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46471081 already posted
        
       | incognito124 wrote:
       | Thank you, Microsoft, for accelerating the advent of The Year of
       | The Linux Desktop
        
         | petepete wrote:
         | They're pulling out all the stops. If you told me that whoever
         | was in charge of the consumer versions of Windows was trying to
         | drive it into the ground, I'd believe you.
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | To be fair, Microsoft did deliberately drive Nokia into the
           | ground.
        
             | wvenable wrote:
             | Nokia was driving pretty close to the ground before
             | Microsoft ever got involved.
        
               | lfllfkddl wrote:
               | Well, many consider Elop to be a Microsoft asset.
        
             | saubeidl wrote:
             | Maybe the Finns got their mole in to extract revenge. Don't
             | forget Linux is Finnish as well ;-)
        
               | wiseowise wrote:
               | Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
        
             | justsomehnguy wrote:
             | Look at the Nokia sales volume, revenue and the date of
             | Burning Platform memo - and don't repeat this bullshit ever
             | again.
        
           | chocochunks wrote:
           | They're working on Xbox too!
        
             | tialaramex wrote:
             | At this point probably there's no room for another
             | Playstation-style video game console. My friend who plays
             | only console-style video games, the sort of person who
             | owned Wii-U and an Xbox One as well as that generation of
             | Playstation, bought a gaming PC last year. He will
             | undoubtedly buy a Switch 2 at some point, to play a Zelda
             | or something, but why would you buy another Xbox?
             | 
             | So I think Xbox becomes a brand for video games with
             | Windows and then gradually it loses relevance until one day
             | the question is "Why isn't Minecraft on Steam like a proper
             | video game?"
        
               | eek2121 wrote:
               | According to leaks with an excellent track recordWe are
               | getting at least 1 more console, and possibly 2. The
               | first (most likely) is a classic Xbox, the second is a
               | handheld. After that, who knows?
               | 
               | All I know is that I own both an Xbox Series X and a PS5.
               | I use the PS5 more. I also own a PC, and it sees more
               | than 1,000 times the usage of either. I bought the PS5
               | for exclusives, and Sony began changing that. However
               | there are still alot of older PS4/PS5 titles that are fun
               | to play, and some games are just better with a controller
               | and a TV.
               | 
               | That being said, I'm likely not going to purchase any
               | other consoles.
        
         | AnthOlei wrote:
         | I switched my parents onto Linux a couple months ago, after my
         | mom kept getting confused between edge and chrome - not being
         | to uninstall edge was the last straw, but the massive amount of
         | adware slowing down her capable-but-old laptop was a close
         | second.
         | 
         | So far so good! Some smaller hiccups, like chrome won't use
         | dolphin, but I installed rustdesk so I can help them through
         | whatever.
         | 
         | Over Christmas the in-laws were asking about Linux because of
         | windows issues, which was surprising since they're
         | technologically literate but in a layman sense. I didn't try to
         | switch them over since the parent experiment is still ongoing
         | but a couple more months of seamless use and I'll consider it a
         | success.
         | 
         | All this to say I'm very glad for Microsoft leadership!
        
           | owaislone wrote:
           | Cool. I used to install it on all my family and friends
           | computer when I was a teenager but as I grew older and had
           | less and less time, being the constant tech support guy for
           | everyone I introduced to Linux got very hard so I stopped
           | recommended/installing it. Which distro did you choose for
           | your parents?
        
           | incognito124 wrote:
           | My non-technical friend installed linux on her 10yo old
           | laptop _by herself_ after a windows update slowed down her
           | device and rendered it unusable. She said she said she read
           | about it somewhere and that the Ubuntu installation was
           | pretty intuitive.
           | 
           | I was both amazed and proud. She's daily driving Linux now
           | 
           | (to be fair, it's just tv shows and web apps like chatgpt or
           | docs, but still, Linux is now a good-enough alternative, at
           | least anegdotally)
        
             | plagiarist wrote:
             | AFAICT the only thing that should be keeping people from
             | Linux nowadays is gaming (especially VR) and systemd doing
             | dumb shit device naming so that changing the physical
             | location of an unrelated GPU renames your NIC and breaks
             | your internet.
        
               | graynk wrote:
               | ALVR has been working really well for me on my Quest 3.
               | 
               | there are a lot of other things stopping people from
               | migrating besides gaming though. sure, there _are_
               | alternatives for professional audio /photo/video
               | editing/producing, but they all mean losing some
               | functionality if you migrate.
        
               | flipthefrog wrote:
               | Would have switched years ago if it wasn't for Adobe.
               | Open source equivalents to Photoshop and Lightroom are
               | NOT viable alternatives
        
               | bentcorner wrote:
               | For casual use I use lightroom web and it's good enough
               | for me, if you haven't tried it, I highly recommend.
               | 
               | I'm sure for some workflows it isn't sufficient but for
               | basic edits and raw development it works quite well.
        
               | throwaway1389z wrote:
               | Don't use NIC name for networking. This is a none
               | problem.
        
               | malfist wrote:
               | It is clearly a problem for them. Just because you do
               | something different doesn't invalidate their pain point
        
               | jasomill wrote:
               | I was under the impression that the systemd device naming
               | schemes were created specifically to solve the problem
               | you describe[1].
               | 
               | Are there cases where the old scheme worked well that
               | none of the systemd schemes properly address?
               | 
               | Is the scheme Windows uses to bind configuration to
               | physical network interfaces even documented?
               | 
               | [1] https://systemd.io/PREDICTABLE_INTERFACE_NAMES/
        
             | b112 wrote:
             | anecdotally?
        
               | incognito124 wrote:
               | Yes, thank you. It's 'c' in English but 'g' in my mother
               | tongue
        
               | b112 wrote:
               | Interesting, I can see how it would sound the same, with
               | a different accent.
        
               | fwipsy wrote:
               | Native English speaker. I tried saying both out loud and
               | it sounds the same. It's just a glottal stop (?) either
               | way in my accent.
        
               | SAI_Peregrinus wrote:
               | "Hard c" is voiced, "g" is unvoiced.
        
               | Sharlin wrote:
               | (I think you mean the other way around.)
               | 
               | But the difference is almost meaningless in this case
               | because in practice the c blends to the d, which is
               | voiced.
        
             | barbs wrote:
             | My Dad, who's well into his 60s, managed to install linux
             | himself on his computer. His kept the windows partition in
             | a dual boot setup just in case, but spends just about all
             | the time in Linux, he loves it.
        
           | fwipsy wrote:
           | After my mom's Chromebook died I switched her to Ubuntu +
           | Firefox on a Thinkpad x201 and it's been her daily driver for
           | years. I keep asking to buy her a newer laptop with a bigger
           | screen (800p is pretty painful these days) but she won't let
           | me.
        
           | theandrewbailey wrote:
           | Sometime around 2012, Windows XP started having issues on my
           | parent's PC, so I installed Xubuntu on it (my preferred
           | distro at the time). I told them that "it works like
           | Windows", showed them how to check email, browse the web,
           | play solitare, and shut down. Even the random HP printer +
           | scanner they had worked great! I went back home 2 states
           | away, and expected a call from them to "put it back to what
           | it was", but it never happened. (The closest was Mom
           | wondering why solitare (the gnome-games version) was
           | different, then guided her on how to change the game type to
           | klondike.)
           | 
           | If "it [Xubuntu] works like Windows" offended you, I'd like
           | to point out that normies don't care about how operating
           | system kernels are designed. Normies care about things like a
           | start menu, and that the X in the corner closes programs. The
           | interface is paramount for non-technical users.
           | 
           | A family friend recently called me for advice on her old
           | decrepit laptop. I told her about my work "laptop": a Surface
           | Pro tablet with Linux. I just sold one to her (I work in
           | e-waste recycling), partially on the security and privacy
           | advantages of Linux. Lets see how that works out.
        
           | spuz wrote:
           | My elderly parents asked me to install Linux on their laptops
           | this Christmas after finally getting sick of the adware on
           | Windows. If Microsoft can make them switch, anyone can.
        
           | Fnoord wrote:
           | I switched my mum to Unix(-like).
           | 
           | Her router is running Linux. I can tell because of the speed
           | of the WLAN alone.
           | 
           | Her STB runs Linux, specifically Android TV (Nvidia Shield
           | TV). Thanks for adding the fantastic ads in the newest
           | Android TV, Google! /s
           | 
           | Her vacuum cleaner runs Linux, I know because I slapped
           | Valetudo on it.
           | 
           | Her NAS runs Linux (DSM), Synology.
           | 
           | Her printer runs Linux (Brother).
           | 
           | Her Raspberry Pi with Home Assistant runs Linux (DietPi).
           | 
           | Her tablet runs macOS variant, iPadOS.
           | 
           | Her smartphone runs macOS variant, iOS.
           | 
           | Her smartwatch will run macOS variant, watchOS.
           | 
           | OK, fair enough. Her laptop! Her laptop still runs Win...
           | wait a sec, she hasn't had a laptop for more than a decade.
           | She's been using that super expensive hardware keyboard for
           | iPad. My mum never even used Windows 10 or 11. Her laptop
           | came with Windows Vista back in the days, it was terribly
           | sluggish.
           | 
           | I don't know which year it is, but it isn't the year of the
           | Windows OS.
           | 
           | And yes, I am super happy with Microsoft using thumb screws
           | like these. Squeeze them tight. The more computers will slip
           | through your fingers, grand moff Nadella.
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | > Her tablet runs macOS variant, iPadOS.
             | 
             | > Her smartphone runs macOS variant, iOS.
             | 
             | > Her smartwatch will run macOS variant, watchOS.
             | 
             | None of these platforms run a variant of macOS, rather a
             | variant of Darwin.
        
               | Marsymars wrote:
               | I have no particular insight into whether the wikipedia
               | article is correct, but it says "iOS is based on macOS."
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | Being repeated since Windows XP days, and yet without Proton
         | there is no Linux gaming.
        
           | capitol_ wrote:
           | And yet, without the software for Linux gaming, there is no
           | Linux gaming.
           | 
           | Very hard to falsify such a statement.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | Software written for Windows, running with a translation
             | layer on GNU/Linux.
        
               | graynk wrote:
               | is there a point somewhere in this statement?
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | A reality slap.
        
               | 2b3a51 wrote:
               | Not the parent or grandparent poster and not a gamer.
               | 
               | The echo in my mind from the statement was along the
               | following lines:
               | 
               | I can do everything at work remotely from my Linux laptop
               | as they use Microsoft365/Sharepoint/Teams/Outlook and
               | all. I can just log in via Chromium and noone knows any
               | different with _one_ exception: the finance portal. I
               | have to be on an employer owned Windows PC to do that one
               | thing as it is the last  'native program' needed. Moral:
               | enterprise-ish stuff is happening via the Web browser.
               | 
               | Steam _et al_ financing WINE /Proton and generally
               | hammering all the sharp edges out of the compatibility
               | layer for running Windows software on Linux. Moral:
               | Complex Windows native software _can_ be run under Linux.
               | 
               | So, at some point in the future, does Microsoft just
               | phase out Windows? Replace it with a really well
               | engineered Linux with compatibility environment for
               | legacy software?
        
               | chrisldgk wrote:
               | The translation layer doesn't really matter though, does
               | it? If a user installs a game and it runs the same, the
               | user doesn't care about the translation layer inbetween.
               | If installing and running a game on Linux is the same as
               | running it on windows, there's no reason to prefer one
               | over the other for gaming.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | It certainly does, because it allows game studios to keep
               | ignoring GNU/Linux, even when they happen to have
               | Android/Linux games written with the NDK, it is a Valve's
               | problem.
        
               | Tom1380 wrote:
               | With better performance than on Windows
        
               | u8080 wrote:
               | Maybe in rare cases with few compatible games.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | In some cases.
        
           | nkrisc wrote:
           | So there is Linux gaming, you're saying.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | No there isn't.
             | 
             | What is there are Linux users playing Windows games.
             | 
             | There used to be one, sadly the likes of Loki Entertainment
             | are now gone.
        
               | malfist wrote:
               | What do you call a game that plays natively on Linux?
               | 
               | Not a windows game.
        
           | gligorot wrote:
           | There is a chicken/egg problem.
           | 
           | We should be happy it has a solution.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | I would not call being dependent on Windows games a
             | solution.
        
               | badsectoracula wrote:
               | The file format and APIs used are irrelevant as long as
               | the games work. The games work and that is all that
               | matter.
        
           | timeon wrote:
           | Sure but not everyone is using desktop for gaming.
        
         | FridayoLeary wrote:
         | every discussion like this has at least one of these comments.
         | The year of the Linux Desktop must be nearly here. They've been
         | predicting it for years already!
        
           | abdusco wrote:
           | Linux on desktop = the fusion energy of computing.
        
           | throwaway1389z wrote:
           | Yeah, except there has been a steady increase in Linux (~5%
           | "confirmed") and a steady decline of Windows. I bet a large
           | percentage of those "unknown" are also linux machines.
           | 
           | https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-
           | share/desktop/worldwide...
        
           | llm_nerd wrote:
           | As the old saying goes, it happens slowly and then all at
           | once. The things tethering people to Windows have largely
           | disappeared for many/most people.
           | 
           | One of my sons has a desktop that is quite powerful and
           | overwhelmingly adequate for what he does. As Windows 10 hit
           | the end of support we were considering how to move forward as
           | Windows 11 refuses to work on his device. We realized there
           | is absolutely nothing keeping him on Windows, and perhaps we
           | just replace his PC with a Mac Mini. But in the meantime he's
           | rolling with Ubuntu and has lost absolutely nothing and
           | gained plenty.
        
           | leptons wrote:
           | For me, after 35 years of Windows, 2025 was the year of the
           | Linux desktop. Finally. Linux has become a lot better, and my
           | skills with Linux have too. And Microsoft screwed me over a
           | few times too many. I had bought a "lifetime license" for
           | Outlook, which cost me over $100 a couple of years ago. So
           | then I wanted to upgrade the CPU on the machine running the
           | VM where I had Outlook running, and suddenly that "lifetime
           | license" ended due to the CPU being different. That was
           | really the last straw for me. I moved to Linux Mint and
           | Firebird for email, and it's been great. Now all of my VMs
           | are running Linux, all the locally hosted services I had
           | running have Linux binaries. The switch was a lot easier than
           | I anticipated.
           | 
           | If Microsoft is alienating people like me, using Windows for
           | 35 years, they can alienate anyone.
           | 
           | The forced buying of new hardware just to run Windows 11 is
           | going to be the last straw for a lot of people. And Apple is
           | really no better, their existing x86 machines have the same
           | problem. We could no longer update a MBP, and other software
           | stopped working due to the inability to update (and sorry, no
           | we're not going to use hacky solutions to force it to
           | update).
        
         | throwaway1389z wrote:
         | The only thing holding millions, possibly in the 100s, from
         | switching to Desktop Linux from Windows is Apple's iPhone
         | support.
        
           | stefanfisk wrote:
           | As a Mac user I might be missing something obvious - why do
           | they need iPhone support on their computer?
        
             | throwaway1389z wrote:
             | Backups. Copying photos. Sharing files. As a Mac User,
             | you're probably well served with backups integration in
             | Finder, as well as iCloud, AirDrop, iMessage, and friends
             | without realising it.
        
               | llm_nerd wrote:
               | Do you mean like...iTunes? Huh?
               | 
               | I know approximately zero people who still tether an
               | iPhone to a desktop for any sort of backups.
        
               | throwaway1389z wrote:
               | No.
        
               | lorenzhs wrote:
               | Even if it was still a thing (and it really isn't, imo),
               | libimobiledevice does a decent job already, and given a
               | little funding it shouldn't be super hard to close the
               | gaps and build a nice UI on top of it. But that's not
               | happening because very few people care about it at all.
               | 
               | Now, AirDrop support is a completely different beast. But
               | it requires hardware support (promiscuous mode, iirc)
               | that many common chipsets simply lack.
        
               | throwaway1389z wrote:
               | Your response and the parent sounds like the comments on
               | DropBox thread. It is detached from reality of consumers
               | and fails to contribute direction that can actually move
               | the needle.
        
               | llm_nerd wrote:
               | Could you describe the "reality of consumers", because it
               | sounds like you just time travelled from 2011.
        
               | jasomill wrote:
               | The only integrations that matter to me are Messages and
               | notifications for phone calls, neither of which are even
               | available on Windows AFAIK, and could just as usefully be
               | implemented as a Web app as a native Windows app if Apple
               | chose to do so.
               | 
               | Oh, and USB tethering, but in my recent experience that's
               | harder to get working on Windows 11 than on Linux (had to
               | find the correct driver manually on
               | catalog.update.microsoft.com as neither Windows Update
               | nor any of the Apple Windows apps installed it, only to
               | have some update or other remove it without my knowledge
               | or consent a few weeks later).
        
               | gambiting wrote:
               | Eh? I don't have an iPhone, but my mum does and she uses
               | it fine without a Mac. Everything just syncs to iCloud,
               | if there is some benefit to connecting it to a Mac then
               | I'm genuinely unaware of it.
        
         | mat_b wrote:
         | Haha. Been seeing this comment for at least 20 years now. Some
         | things never change...
        
         | eek2121 wrote:
         | I've been using Linux since the 90s, however I was never super
         | awesome with it. I can do the basic stuff, and with a bit of
         | documentation/guidance, a bit more. I was able to install Arch
         | Linux at least 3X, for example. I also managed to build a
         | kernel like twice...although I didn't do a great job of
         | configuration.
         | 
         | I think my crowning achievement came early on when I managed to
         | follow Linux From Scratch all the way through.
         | 
         | I say all of this to say that I am finally off Windows for
         | good. It has become my daily driver. I've no obstacles. Not in
         | gaming, software dev, personal work, media consumption (beyond
         | streaming services degrading streams for a non-supported OS),
         | or anything else. I've found open source apps to be quite a bit
         | better than their closed source equivalents.
         | 
         | Things have really shifted in the past 5-10 years, and I dig
         | it. KDE + CachyOS is great! Although I hear Bazzite is better
         | for new users (I have some decent experience using Arch so I
         | prefer Cachy)
         | 
         | I don't foresee ever moving back to Windows. The AI and
         | constant push to Microsoft Edge, Second OOB experience, and
         | other nonsense (including Diablo 2: resurrected, a [now]
         | Microsoft owned product that still gets a few updates, hard
         | locking my system), I decided to take my ball and go home...to
         | Linux. A few people I know who aren't even remotely computer
         | literate at all have done the same, and they've been surprised
         | at how much better everything is, particularly on somewhat
         | older hardware.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | Is it The Year of the Linux Desktop again?
        
       | mulakosag wrote:
       | I have not used windows in a while but thinking of building a PC.
       | Is there a way to install way older version of windows 10 without
       | Microsoft's AI nonsense and the online account requirement?
        
         | lifetimerubyist wrote:
         | I just did it today with the current ISO you can download from
         | Microsoft themselves. Then installed all the Windows updates,
         | graphics drivers and even enrolled in the free extended
         | security support. Then I just uninstalled Cortana and Copilot
         | manually. Ezpz
         | 
         | Be warned that they employ extreme amounts of dark patterns to
         | try and trick you into converting the offline account into an
         | online one.
         | 
         | Online activation of the Windows license is separate from an
         | online user account.
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | > Be warned that they employ extreme amounts of dark patterns
           | to try and trick you into converting the offline account into
           | an online one.
           | 
           | This would be an extremely valuable comment if you would
           | document that.
        
           | abound wrote:
           | Were you able to enable extended security updates without
           | logging in?
           | 
           | I've held out for literal years, but that was the thing that
           | finally made me log into an online user account (and start
           | figuring out how to finally cut the last bit of Windows out
           | of my life)
        
             | wmf wrote:
             | Just pirate the updates with Massgrave.
        
           | robinsonb5 wrote:
           | Were you able to use the online activation system without a
           | Microsoft account? I wasn't able to - though as you say, that
           | account doesn't have to be tied to the license or an account
           | on the machine being activated.
        
         | CamperBob2 wrote:
         | Look into LTSC, and the resources at https://massgrave.dev/ .
         | 
         | Disclaimer: I have no personal knowledge of that site, but it
         | is commonly recommended when this subject comes up.
        
           | q3k wrote:
           | I've heard that it is a way to reliably but potentially
           | illegally activate MSFT products. Stay away.
        
             | kristofferR wrote:
             | Nah, it's been hosted by Microsoft for years, on Github for
             | a decade, without as much as a takedown notice, 161k stars
             | now, they don't mind.
             | 
             | https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts
             | 
             | If they wanted it removed from GitHub they would have done
             | so.
        
             | nixass wrote:
             | Hot take but legality is completely irrelevant for home use
        
             | 9x39 wrote:
             | If you're a midsize business with revenue, theoretically
             | one of their enforcement partners may take a run at you,
             | but this is not a thing with home users (or even most small
             | business abuse).
        
             | shepherdjerred wrote:
             | I'd feel bad only if there were a legitimate way to acquire
             | the LTSC for home use
        
         | everyone wrote:
         | Just get Windows 10 LTSC from the pirate bay and install IOT
         | version. It's an actually good version of Windows MS dont sell
         | to normal people.
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | It's based on 20H2, so there's software that doesn't support
           | it like Starfield.
        
             | 9029 wrote:
             | I thought it worked just fine on LTSC 2021 (21H2)
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | It's possible, but it won't get security updates anymore.
        
         | kristofferR wrote:
         | Windows 10 is outdated, not recommended at all. Just install
         | Win11 Enterprise and get your favorite LLM to give you
         | instructions to remove the stuff you don't want, after like 15
         | minutes it will be totally cleaned for perpetuity.
        
         | wvenable wrote:
         | If you're willing go through a little bit of trouble -- and it
         | sounds like you are -- it's pretty easy to configure Windows 11
         | to look and act pretty much like Windows 7. You'd be hard
         | pressed to tell what version of Windows I'm running if you gave
         | it a cursory glance.
         | 
         | The main tool for me is https://www.startallback.com/
         | 
         | O2O Shutup ( https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 ) is also
         | pretty useful for disabling anything you don't like all in one
         | place -- it doesn't even install.
        
           | nilslindemann wrote:
           | I also found Winscript and Windhawk useful.
           | 
           | https://github.com/flick9000/winscript
           | https://github.com/ramensoftware/windhawk
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Only Aero, Classic theme not really.
        
         | shepherdjerred wrote:
         | https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
        
       | jjaksic wrote:
       | When Nadella took over from Ballmer, he steered Microsoft in a
       | better direction for a while. But by now he's become a lot worse.
       | The biggest software company can no longer produce good software
       | and its products are actively hostile to users. Nadella cares
       | only about one thing, which is shoving AI everywhere and to
       | everyone, at any cost. The irony is that he knows nothing about
       | AI, how to build capable models or how to build useful AI
       | products, nor does he have people who do. AI is his Metaverse:
       | something he's singularity focused on, to the point of neglecting
       | everything else, without any idea what to actually do with it.
        
         | YY4387268632 wrote:
         | I noticed an immediate dip in quality of the products when
         | Nadella came into power. Even Windows 8, for all the faults of
         | the Metro UX, felt like a complete product.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | I miss Balmer in what concerns Windows development culture.
        
           | burnte wrote:
           | As someone who lived through a small portion of the internal
           | mess that was Vista, I DO NOT miss him at all. I worked there
           | 6 months and his bizarre management directives were obvious.
           | Behind every single developer push was a lock-in push, too.
           | Every "open" product had to have some form of lock in or
           | vendor-only advantage. None of it was driving customer
           | success, it was all about enforcement and lock-in from top
           | down.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | Meanwhile nowadays everyone at Windows is a Web developer.
        
           | acka wrote:
           | Developers, developers, developers, developers[1].
           | 
           | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fcSviC7cRM
        
           | wolvoleo wrote:
           | He seemed to me like such a total d**k, sorry to say but the
           | energy I got from him and the things he did (throwing chairs
           | etc), brrr. Also his public shows were so hard and pushy.
           | This is not ok even for a CEO. A toxic work environment is
           | never acceptable.
           | 
           | If I had worked for MS I would have hated him and the company
           | he forged. I don't like Nadella much (note, there's very few
           | 'leaders' I like) but at least he seems to be a nice person.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | At least Windows development wasn't done with Chrome.
        
               | wolvoleo wrote:
               | That's a good point. The new electron apps like teams and
               | "new" outlook are terrible.
        
               | bezier-curve wrote:
               | It wasn't? There are those kernel protected
               | msedgewebview2.exe processes Microsoft shoved into
               | Windows 11, actively making performance horrible.
        
         | awesan wrote:
         | People have forgotten this, but he did the same with Windows
         | Phone for a while at the very start of his time as CEO. His
         | motto was "cloud first, mobile first" where cloud meant Azure
         | and mobile meant Windows Phone. After some time he gave up and
         | they pivoted into the direction he is now well known for, which
         | was to focus on good developer tooling regardless of OS.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | GitHub and VSCode were smart ways to quickly recapture
           | developer mindshare. They felt distinctly un-Microsoft with
           | how open and multiplatform they were.
           | 
           | The Azure Linux friendliness play was essential and smart.
           | Again, Microsoft felt like they were opening up to the world.
           | 
           | But they've backslidden. They've ceded Windows and gaming to
           | their cloud and AI infra ambitions. They're not being
           | friendly anymore.
           | 
           | Microsoft spent a lot of energy making Windows more consumer
           | friendly, only to piss it away with Windows 11.
           | 
           | One evil thing they were doing that they've suddenly given up
           | on: they spent a ton of money buying up gaming studios
           | (highly anti-competitively) to win on the console front and
           | to stymie Steam's ability to move off Windows. They wanted to
           | make Windows/Xbox gaming the place everyone would be. They
           | threw all of that away because AI became a bigger target.
           | 
           | They'll continue to win in enterprise, but they're losing
           | consumer, gamer, and developer/IC support and mindshare. I've
           | never seen so many people bitch about GitHub as in the last
           | year. You'd swear it had became worse than Windows 7 at this
           | point.
        
             | littlestymaar wrote:
             | > You'd swear it had became worse than Windows 7 at this
             | point.
             | 
             | Do you mean Windows Vista instead? Because Windows 7 was
             | probably the last (half-)decent windows (no UI though for
             | tablet, no ads in the OS, no ubiquitous telemetry, no
             | account BS).
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | Yeah, my mistake. I spent the post-XP era on Linux and
               | specially Ubuntu.
               | 
               | I've been using all three major OS families recently and
               | I'm not enjoying my time on Windows. It's so full of ads,
               | and the Linux / Unix bits feel bolted on.
        
               | timeon wrote:
               | Often gets confused because of same liquid-glass as
               | vista.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Windows 7 was the last Windows version to still support
               | the Classic theme: https://betawiki.net/images/d/da/Windo
               | ws_7_classic_theme.png
        
             | mattmanser wrote:
             | Do you think they'll continue to win in enterprise? As a
             | casual office user, who's had to do some PowerPoint and
             | word docs recently, I found the experience of using office
             | 365 truly miserable. All of them are laggy and horrible to
             | use.
             | 
             | I think by moving onto the cloud they've left themselves
             | open to being disrupted, and when it comes it'll be like
             | Lotus Notes, an extremely quick downfall.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | They have enterprise users locked in mainly due to Active
               | Directory, for which there is no good replacement, and to
               | a some extent SharePoint. There's also Office, of course,
               | and you are right that the migration to web tech isn't
               | well taken. I'm thinking of "New Outlook" in particular.
               | They probably plan to EOL classic Outlook when Office
               | 2024 EOLs in 2029. The last stronghold will be Excel. If
               | native Excel ever gets discontinued, then everything
               | Microsoft will have been webshittified(tm).
        
               | ezst wrote:
               | Trust me, I really want that to happen, but who has the
               | billions to burn (and the will to use them at that) to
               | build a solid alternative? Most probably, the EU will
               | have a misguided shot at it, out of desperation from the
               | USA, and will subsidise some inadequate local actors. I'm
               | not sure whether it will be good, timely nor sufficient.
        
             | the_snooze wrote:
             | >One evil thing they were doing that they've suddenly given
             | up on: they spent a ton of money buying up gaming studios
             | (highly anti-competitively) to win on the console front and
             | to stymie Steam's ability to move off Windows. They wanted
             | to make Windows/Xbox gaming the place everyone would be.
             | They threw all of that away because AI became a bigger
             | target.
             | 
             | No kidding, the totally threw it all away. It used to be
             | that Windows was already the place for gaming. And the Xbox
             | 360 arguably won its generation. But that was a long time
             | ago. Has any Microsoft gaming release exceeded expectations
             | lately? Call of Duty will always sell like hotcakes, but
             | the latest Black Ops is a hot expensive mess that
             | underperformed last year's title.
        
               | starkparker wrote:
               | > the Xbox 360 arguably won its generation
               | 
               | Maybe it won some battles in your part of the world,
               | presumably North America. But the PS3 outsold it globally
               | as its contemporary, and even the PS5 passed the 360 in
               | global lifetime sales as of November 2025:
               | https://www.vgchartz.com/article/466599/ps5-outsells-
               | xbox-36...
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Microsoft seems to have decided that they can't make all
               | that much money with gaming. But they are underestimating
               | the mindshare they are losing with that.
               | 
               | Slightly related, they also discontinued most of their PC
               | peripherals in 2023, many of which were quite good:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35748645
        
             | Brian_K_White wrote:
             | Windows 7 was about the best Windows ever got, like 2K and
             | XP. Vista and 8 (and now 11) are the bad ones.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | Yes, I use Win7 every day!
        
             | WWLink wrote:
             | Microsoft has never been an end-user-focused company.
             | Almost every successful product they've ever made was to
             | sell to a business for their employees to use. Everything
             | else they seem to either half ass or screw up or lose their
             | passion for at some point.
             | 
             | I think I first came to that realization with windows phone
             | 7/8? The UI was cool looking, but functionality was half-
             | baked and third party app availability was dismal. HOWEVER!
             | You could sign a windows phone into an active directory/365
             | account and manage the bloody daylights out of it via group
             | policy and the tools to do that were SUPER WELL MADE.
             | 
             | Same is/was true of Microsoft Teams - an utter abomination
             | of a chat client, the search is garbage, the emoji and
             | sticker variety sometimes weird, the client itself randomly
             | uses up 100% CPU for no reason and is just generally
             | buggy... but gosh darnit, MS made sure sysadmins could ban
             | memes and use of certain emoji via policy and gave insane
             | amounts of detail to auditing and record keeping. So sure
             | it's a pile of shit to use, but awesome if you wanna spy on
             | your employees and restrict their every move.
             | 
             | Windows is fun because with the enterprise version, they
             | give all that control to the employers, but with the
             | consumer version they give all that control to advertisers,
             | developers, and themselves.
             | 
             | I think this is also why every consumer-focused product
             | they make either fails instantly, or ends up rotting on the
             | vine and failing after whoever evangelized that product
             | leaves the company (possibly being forced out for not being
             | a "culture fit"). Do I have to go on about zune/windows
             | phone/xbox? Or surface? Or the way they randomly dumped
             | their peripherals product line on another company? lol.
        
             | amluto wrote:
             | > But they've backslidden. They've ceded Windows and gaming
             | to their cloud and AI infra ambitions. They're not being
             | friendly anymore.
             | 
             | Forget being "friendly". GitHub has enormous mindshare and
             | has frankly quite reasonably pricing (far cheaper than
             | GitLab, for example), but the product just sucks lately.
             | The website, while quite capable (impressively so at times)
             | is so slow and buggy that it's hard to benefit from any of
             | its capabilities.
             | 
             | It's gotten to the point where, every time I try a newish
             | capability, I ask myself "how bad can this possibly be,"
             | and it invariably exceeds expectations.
             | 
             | GitHub needs to take a step back and focus on fixing
             | things. Existing features should work, be coherent, and be
             | fast. If it takes longer to load a diff in the web viewer
             | than it takes to pull the entire branch and view the diff
             | locally, something is wrong.
             | 
             | If a coworker reviews my code, I should not sitting right
             | next to them, literally looking at the same website they're
             | on, and wondering why they see the correct context for
             | their review comment but I don't.
        
           | justsomehnguy wrote:
           | > "focus on good developer tooling"
           | 
           | So "developers, developers, developers"?
        
         | coliveira wrote:
         | People don't understand that this is MS culture. It doesn't
         | mater the CEO. They'll always move to lock customers into the
         | useless products they create.
        
         | csdreamer7 wrote:
         | Nadella was the one who fired Microsoft's QA team for Windows.
         | It took a while but those chickens finally came home to roost.
         | 
         | https://www.computerworld.com/article/1626871/microsoft-to-b...
         | 
         | This one youtuber, I forget his name, was fired as part of that
         | layoff. He had a son with severe Autism and Microsoft's health
         | benefits were very important to him.
        
           | bsimpson wrote:
           | There's a long-circulating mind virus that makes executives
           | believe top-tier engineers don't need their software tested.
           | 
           | Google's QA is pitiful too.
        
             | hnthrowaway0328 wrote:
             | They have long adopted the mindset to get users as free
             | beta testers. Long gone the tradition that quality matters.
        
             | Seattle3503 wrote:
             | It's always the departments that are closest to the
             | customer that pay the price in my experience. At one
             | company, after killing QA, the support team created their
             | own internal QA process. They were going to deal with the
             | issues anyways, so they wanted to catch as many as they
             | could first.
        
             | ahartmetz wrote:
             | In case of some recent Windows parts, that would need to be
             | compounded by the mistaken belief to have top-tier
             | engineers working for them.
        
           | frde_me wrote:
           | > He had a son with severe Autism and Microsoft's health
           | benefits were very important to him.
           | 
           | This really sucks for him. Through should Microsoft _not_
           | layoff specific people due to health conditions? Is that
           | something we require from companies?
        
             | bowsamic wrote:
             | Yes I'd say that such people should get extra protections
        
               | kwanbix wrote:
               | In europe (at least in Germany), they do get extra
               | protection.
        
               | CrimsonRain wrote:
               | And that's why people think 5 times before hiring such.
               | It's already super hard to fire people unless they make
               | gross mistakes. It's nearly impossible to fire someone
               | like that. It's stupid.
        
               | kakacik wrote:
               | Its not stupid rather humane, just very ineffective from
               | economical perspective.
               | 
               | You want society where its everybody for themselves, fuck
               | the rest, be lucky with ie your health so you and your
               | family can have a decent life and one problem big enough
               | can wipe you out? The benefit is more money, economy
               | works better, is more agile to ever-changing situation.
               | Just those extra money often go to that healthcare (since
               | we all end up with various issues over time, the only
               | exception is early death), or university for kids, or
               | cost of properties.
               | 
               | Or something glacial, without real pressure to improve,
               | more poor, but with additional safety nets.
               | 
               | I keep saying it over and over - EU should take over
               | system (and mindset, good luck there) of Swiss folks.
               | They strike the best balance between predatory capitalism
               | that often grinds unlucky individuals and various safety
               | nets (free top notch public education, almost free public
               | healthcare, very good but not ridiculous social system
               | etc). Unsurprisingly, mix of European competency and a
               | bit of proper capitalism creates one of best stable
               | living standards in the world, and arguably still The
               | most free nation in the world (TM).
               | 
               | Its a place that french or germans just can't swallow -
               | neighbor showing them how much better a similar society
               | can end up functioning with few rather minor tweaks.
        
               | jasomill wrote:
               | In the US at least, there are needs-based high-risk
               | insurance programs run by states that do just that.
               | 
               | Even so, while it's not a good argument against layoffs,
               | the fact that it's even considered as such is in itself a
               | reasonable argument against health care being tied to
               | specific employment.
        
             | chrishare wrote:
             | Not at all - it's legal, but it doesn't garner goodwill
             | either.
        
             | project2501a wrote:
             | How about you nationalize your healthcare, so people like
             | that are not depended on their work to get the care they
             | need?
        
               | bagels wrote:
               | What role did you specifically play in your country's
               | nationalization of healthcare?
        
               | cheesecakejava wrote:
               | Maybe not that person above, but I've continually voted
               | in support of it and initiatives to expand it
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | Employer provided health care insurance came about during
               | WW2 because Roosevelt froze wages. Companies discovered
               | they could "raise" wages by paying for the insurance
               | themselves.
               | 
               | The practice persisted because employer paid health
               | insurance is tax-deductible, while it isn't if a person
               | pays it out of pocket.
               | 
               | The obvious solution is to make it tax-deductible.
        
               | jagged-chisel wrote:
               | I don't see how this addresses the comment you replied
               | to.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | I suggested an alternative solution to the one proposed
               | by the comment I replied to.
        
               | jagged-chisel wrote:
               | I don't understand how "make it tax-deductible" is an
               | alternative to "nationalize healthcare so it's not tied
               | to employment."
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | Sorry, I don't know how to make it any clearer.
        
               | wwweston wrote:
               | It doesn't. It's part of a rosary of things people wield
               | to stave off thinking about the topic. You _can_ do other
               | things besides nationalizing all care or insurance, but
               | when you hear people talk about "open up markets to cross
               | state competition", or "everyone gets an HSA", or "make
               | insurance tax deductible /it's fdr's fault", it's rarely
               | about the specific policy, those are liturgical texts /
               | catechisms designed to give the impression of solutions
               | without substance.
               | 
               | Tax deductibility is only a very minor reason why most
               | private insurance is employer provided; the much larger
               | reason is that employment is a decent way to get a
               | reasonably distributed group (of people generally healthy
               | enough to work) and that's one way of getting balanced
               | risk pool if you're not doing community rating or a
               | societ wide pool.
        
               | y7 wrote:
               | > The obvious solution is to make it tax-deductible.
               | 
               | Or make employer paid health insurance count as income
               | and therefore _not_ tax-deductible.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | True. Total employee compensation is around 145% of their
               | salary. The government could tax that extra 45%, but I
               | doubt that would fly politically.
               | 
               | Typical accounts of employee compensation only measure
               | wages and salaries. I've only seen the WSJ using total
               | employee compensation, which is a far more realistic
               | figure.
        
               | wombatpm wrote:
               | Or lower the age for Medicare every year until everyone
               | is covered.
        
               | trollbridge wrote:
               | Note that a freshly laid off person will usually qualify
               | for generous Medicaid benefits, including in WA state.
        
             | dghlsakjg wrote:
             | Companies don't have agency. People do. Compassion is a
             | cross cultural value. Including amongst those that run
             | companies.
             | 
             | For the most part none of us has any "required" obligation
             | to anyone else.
             | 
             | Is it something we require of companies? No. But being a
             | responsible, compassionate human being that considers the
             | totality of circumstance is something I expect of that
             | company's leaders. Especially a company that has the money
             | and need for technical skills elsewhere in the org.
             | 
             | The golden rule does not stop being true just because you
             | are at work.
             | 
             | Preemptively: duty to shareholders is broader than short
             | term profit maximizing. Avoiding bad PR like this is also
             | in the service of MS shareholders.
             | 
             | As a side note: Nadella moved his home to Canada, while
             | working at MS, so his special needs kid could go to a
             | specialist school. That is absolutely the right choice. The
             | argument that MS should not consider the health of their
             | employees children is horseshit when they allow the CEO to
             | set up house hours away in a different country for that
             | exact reason.
             | 
             | At the end of the day, a kid suffered unnecessarily through
             | no fault of his parents or his own.
        
             | mxkopy wrote:
             | Yes
        
             | mschuster91 wrote:
             | > Is that something we require from companies?
             | 
             | In Germany, yes. For mass layoffs, this absolutely has to
             | be considered. In general, the older the employee is, or if
             | the employee has dependents, the more difficult it gets to
             | both fire them or lay them off.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | Germany's GDP is shrinking.
               | 
               | The regulations that make it hard to lay off someone have
               | an equal and opposite effect of making companies very
               | reluctant to hire. This impedes the efficient allocation
               | of labor, resulting in a poorer GDP.
        
               | monocasa wrote:
               | It looks like Germany's GDP has increased every year in
               | recent memory except 2009 and 2020.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Germany#Data
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | google [german gdb growth] says: "-0.2% annual change
               | (2024)"
        
               | omnicognate wrote:
               | The "GDP Growth (Real)" column in the wikipedia article
               | GP linked agrees, but it doesn't tell a story that
               | justifies "Germany's GDP is shrinking".
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | See the graph "G7 Real GDP % change compared to pre-
               | Pandemic level":
               | 
               | https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-
               | briefings/sn02...
               | 
               | The US has 13.3% growth and Germany 0.1%.
        
               | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
               | I would 100% chose to live in Germany than the USA. GDP
               | is one consideration, but QOL more important.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | Live wherever you want to!
        
             | eek2121 wrote:
             | Legally, Microsoft, or any company, cannot use any personal
             | factors in determining who to lay off. If they do, they
             | risk a very real lawsuit. All one needs to do is show some
             | evidence of discrimination, and the EEOC doesn't charge a
             | dime, the worst they will do is deny to pursue. If that
             | happens, most private lawyers will take the case on
             | contingency.
             | 
             | This is the reason you see sweeping cuts without regard to
             | age, sex, etc.
             | 
             | There have also been lawsuits in the past that have settled
             | out of court where a company's layoffs appear to overly
             | inflict damage on one class vs. another, even if the intent
             | was not to do that.
             | 
             | I am not defending these companies at ALL btw. I just have
             | a bit of experience in this area due to the legalities, and
             | I wanted to share it.
             | 
             | I am also not saying that companies don't do this, but the
             | smart ones don't, and the smart ones at least try to at
             | least avoid making it look obvious.
        
           | WalterBright wrote:
           | COBRA enables one to continue with the employer's insurance
           | for up to 18 months after a layoff.
        
             | trollbridge wrote:
             | Yes, because it's easy to afford $2000 or $3000 a month
             | when you just got laid off.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | Microsoft pays well. The prudent move is to not increase
               | spending until saving up at a bare minimum 6 months of
               | "runway".
               | 
               | I live in Washington. My accountant told me stories, one
               | of which was a Microsoftian who got the big job, and
               | promptly bought the most expensive house he could swing.
               | He soon ran into trouble because he didn't have enough
               | left to pay the property tax, and was forced to sell it.
               | 
               | BTW, Microsoft has unusually generous benefits for
               | autism. Many autism clinics have sprouted up around the
               | campus to take advantage of that.
               | 
               | Never, ever, EVER assume that a high paying job is a
               | guarantee for life.
        
           | SlightlyLeftPad wrote:
           | Was he the reason shift-left hit mainstream? Recently,
           | smaller non-faang companies followed suit and fired all the
           | qa people. DevOps/SRE people are likely next.
        
         | mihaaly wrote:
         | Concerning AI he is also cluless about how to use it well - or
         | at all - for their non-AI product portfolio.
        
         | ezst wrote:
         | I feel the same, but in hindsight it makes a ton of sense once
         | you consider that Microsoft customers have not, and for a very
         | long time, been its end users. Instead, it's been those (mostly
         | technically incompetent) FortuneXXX middle/top-managers and IT
         | support department managers that they hooked on to Azure & al.
         | via obscene service agreements (for no better cause than
         | "everyone else is doing it anyway" and "nobody ever gets fired
         | for placating MS stuff everywhere").
         | 
         | Microsoft is just profiteering off of their defacto monopoly,
         | selling more is their only metric, the "what" is secondary.
        
         | Geste wrote:
         | Not aiming at you specifically, but I am tired of seeing shitty
         | behaviour that is dismissed as best as incompetence. I do not
         | want to believe someone becomes the CEO of one of the strongest
         | organization on earth without a strategy sixth sense. So, why
         | would he be shoving AI everywhere ? What does he know that we
         | don't about it ? Is it just plan surveillance ?
        
           | solarkraft wrote:
           | I think Hanlon's razor becomes a lot weaker the more the
           | offender has to gain from their action.
           | 
           | Nadella is doing his job of shareholder value maximization
           | quite well.
        
         | lexoj wrote:
         | True, its insane how bad MS teams performs and is built and
         | this is coming from a company that have written their own OS,
         | Programming languages, frameworks etc.
        
         | joshribakoff wrote:
         | I actually just had to independently tag him on LinkedIn after
         | my son had an issue with his Minecraft account. Their account
         | recovery flow directs you to call on the phone and then when
         | you call on the phone, it directs you to use the account
         | recovery flow. When we went to their Support page we received a
         | stack trace from asp.net. After wasting several hours, we
         | screenshot of the error and tagged him on LinkedIn and filed a
         | credit card dispute.
         | 
         | In my LinkedIn post I questioned if they can't be trusted with
         | a $30 game license how can we trust them with a multi million
         | dollar copilot rollout? I pointed out that it seems like this
         | is more than just a lack of human support. It is a company
         | that: does not care about their own brand, the up-time of their
         | own systems, their own employees, or their customers.
         | 
         | I question if their goal is to simply extract money under
         | unethical conditions. I question whether they expect the
         | customer to just repeatedly purchased the game every time the
         | company fails to deliver it. I also questioned to him why he
         | has hiring managers bragging on LinkedIn that they expect
         | people to output 1 million lines of code per month, so they can
         | rewrite the operating system in rust, while their systems are
         | off-line.
        
       | InsideOutSanta wrote:
       | I have a little AMD AliExpress PC where the Windows installer
       | recognizes neither the wifi card nor the Ethernet port. I guess
       | there's a way to download the drivers on another computer and
       | load them during installation, but instead of figuring out how to
       | do that or what the latest option for circumventing the online
       | requirement is, it now runs Pop OS.
        
         | Wowfunhappy wrote:
         | Nothing wrong with Pop OS, but I assume you could still install
         | Windows without activating it, install the drivers, then
         | activate online.
        
           | buccal wrote:
           | Without unofficial bypasses of MS online account requirements
           | you would not come to a point where activation is a concern.
           | No internet access is not enough of a reason for MS let you
           | use your device.
        
           | burnt_toast wrote:
           | That won't work. Windows won't let you finish the
           | installation process unless you connect to the internet so
           | you can't get the PC to a point where you could install the
           | drivers.
        
             | blagie wrote:
             | Really?
             | 
             | When did this come up?
             | 
             | I know tons of people who run Windows unactivated. The key
             | difference is there's a watermark. Otherwise, it seems to
             | work fine.
        
               | jasomill wrote:
               | Personalization options like wallpaper and color settings
               | are disabled until activation, though I'm sure there are
               | workarounds.
        
               | fylo wrote:
               | Unless they have fixed it you used to be able to change
               | stuff really quickly after install before it locked it
               | down due to activation.
        
             | jasomill wrote:
             | The official solution[1] is to slipstream network drivers
             | onto the Windows image before installation.
             | 
             | The official solution for non-technical users is to buy a
             | PC with Windows preinstalled.
             | 
             | [1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-
             | hardware/manufactu...
        
           | II2II wrote:
           | The trouble is you need network access to end up at the
           | desktop to install the network drivers in the expected
           | manner. Both of the ways I am aware of resolving the issue
           | involve dropping to a command prompt. One method is to run
           | the device driver installer from the command prompt. The
           | other method is to run the bypassnro script from the OOBE
           | directory, to get to the desktop to install the driver. There
           | are probably other ways, but given that most search results
           | talk about non-official ways (which I place less faith in,
           | frequently don't work, and are more complex anyhow) I don't
           | see how most people would get around the problem.
           | 
           | In contrast, most desktop oriented Linux distributions have a
           | simpler installer and provide at least enough hardware
           | support to leave you at a functional desktop. (There may be
           | issues with more esoteric hardware, but chances are that
           | hardware wouldn't work under Windows until vendor supplied
           | drivers are installed anyhow.)
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | A few years back I bought win 11 pro retail on usb flash
           | drive.
           | 
           | I just install and type in the key. no network.
           | 
           | I use it for VMs no network necessary.
        
       | Wowfunhappy wrote:
       | What does this mean for using Windows in air gapped environments?
       | I would have assumed this was common enough to make Microsoft
       | want to support it.
       | 
       | Is it possible to activate via a web browser on a separate
       | computer, similar to the flow for phone activation?
        
         | cheschire wrote:
         | you probably need to stand up a key management server (KMS)
        
         | wvenable wrote:
         | Just don't activate. It's not necessary.
        
           | Wowfunhappy wrote:
           | If you're a home user, I agree. But if you're a business,
           | wouldn't this be a liability?
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | Liability would be to not purchase a license, not failing
             | to activate it.
             | 
             | Only risk would be to not have suppport available.
        
               | lfllfkddl wrote:
               | You don't get support on non-activated software.
        
               | prmoustache wrote:
               | That's my point. The question is which fraction of
               | users/businesses actually ever ask for support? And as
               | long as error can be replicated on an activated install,
               | I guess they could still get support.
               | 
               | I knew a number of companies who were using a handful of
               | RedHat servers and many more running CentOS and whenever
               | they encountered issues on a CentOS system they would
               | just replicate it on a RedHat one before asking for
               | support and sending logs. Morally dubious but
               | contractually OK.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | You rarely get useful support from Microsoft anyway.
        
           | makeitdouble wrote:
           | Can't remember what, but there will be functional limitations
           | if you don't activate, even with a verified key.
        
         | tormeh wrote:
         | Microsoft is the US military's biggest supplier. There is
         | definitely a solution for this. And that solution is probably
         | not available to regular users.
        
           | wolvoleo wrote:
           | Yeah this. The common man rules don't apply there.
           | 
           | Even in Enterprise by the way. No way we pay the amounts
           | listed on the MS website.
        
           | wmf wrote:
           | Regular users buy a PC with Windows pre-activated.
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | I would guess (no idea) that military computers log into the
           | cloud, maybe it is a special (expensive) ms military cloud.
        
             | leptons wrote:
             | That then is explicitly not an "air gapped" computer, which
             | there definitely is need for in the military and
             | government.
        
           | jasomill wrote:
           | There are several solutions, and while most are limited to
           | volume licensing, which, depending on your definition, may
           | exclude "regular users", at least one is not:
           | 
           | 1. Supply the code given by the "slmgr /dti" command to
           | Microsoft over the phone or online from a non-air gapped
           | machine.
           | 
           | 2. Apply the resulting activation code with the "slmgr /atp"
           | command.
        
         | 9x39 wrote:
         | Key management services or Active Directory activation.
         | 
         | This is a small roadbump to home/smb free activations.
        
         | bri3d wrote:
         | VAMT proxy activation, or full fledged volume licensing with
         | KMS
        
         | navigate8310 wrote:
         | The closest solution is using IoT LTSC
        
           | andix wrote:
           | Last time I tried to use it for an appliance, we weren't able
           | to buy licenses. Microsoft gave us the contact to the only
           | reseller in our country, and they couldn't find anyone in the
           | company who knew how to sell Windows IoT licenses.
           | 
           | Edit: We only wanted to buy around 20 licenses, so their
           | motivation was also not that big to figure it out.
        
         | andix wrote:
         | I don't think regular Windows 11 is that useful in those cases.
         | You probably either want an intranet connected Windows client,
         | that gets activated and updated via a local server. Probably
         | also a LTSC release, that doesn't get feature updates all the
         | time.
         | 
         | Or a Windows 11 IoT image, that only enables some specific
         | features, and is stripped down for a specific purpose.
         | 
         | For individual use I guess the solution is to set it up once
         | with internet connectivity and air gap afterwards.
        
           | leptons wrote:
           | >For individual use I guess the solution is to set it up once
           | with internet connectivity and air gap afterwards.
           | 
           | That's simply not good enough for some purposes. Once a
           | computer is connected to the internet, _at all for any amount
           | of time_ , the system could be considered to be less secure.
        
             | andix wrote:
             | Sure, but why do you need to use Windows for such a
             | specific setup?
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | Internal key activation can be done through a KMS host , which
         | can be activated by phone (or some other dedicated mean if
         | you're big enough for MS to care)
         | 
         | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/get-started...
        
       | well_actulily wrote:
       | I'll never install Windows on another machine.
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | The way this is going, I'm probably going Linux only next time I
       | upgrade.
        
       | hiccuphippo wrote:
       | I read their handheld Xbox is a version of Windows with none of
       | the bloat nor slop. I'm sure they'll never sell that as a version
       | of Windows but I wonder if it's possible to make it into an
       | installable by third parties like other custom ISOs that float
       | around the internet.
        
       | atomicnumber3 wrote:
       | Is this the last way that was vaguely easy to access? Can you
       | still run the OOBE command or use the XML unattended install
       | method?
        
         | nzeid wrote:
         | Would like to know this as well.
        
       | Jare wrote:
       | When I recently installed Windows 11 on my new rig, it didn't
       | recognize the built-in motherboard wifi and I could only connect
       | after installation of Windows + mobo drivers. How would that work
       | now?
        
         | MrDOS wrote:
         | Just like you used to be able to provide storage drivers on a
         | floppy disk, you can now provide NIC drivers on a USB stick.
         | (IIRC, there's a button for it on the Microsoft account sign-in
         | page of the OOBE.)
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | There are activation cracks right?
        
       | wolvoleo wrote:
       | I do have to say that telephone process was terribly tedious. You
       | had to enter 50 digits or so and it would repeat them all to
       | confirm, ugh.
        
         | rationalist wrote:
         | You could do so by keypad, and I was done in either 3 or 4
         | minutes (I forget which).
        
           | wolvoleo wrote:
           | Yes it just felt really really awkward and drawn out. I
           | really hated it. I had some sequestered VMs at work which
           | were not allowed internet access so I got this a lot. Was a
           | security lab.
        
       | rawling wrote:
       | Dupe
       | 
       | 283 comments
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46471081
        
       | 867-5309 wrote:
       | awaiting what massgrave dev do about this. if nothing, then
       | there's nothing to worry about
        
       | spudlyo wrote:
       | With both Windows 11 and macOS Tahoe now being non-starters for
       | many, it's clear that we're going to continue to see impressive
       | growth in the Linux desktop in 2026. Last year I migrated my
       | Windows gaming machine to Ubuntu, and it's been a great success.
       | I don't play games that require kernel level anti-cheats, so for
       | me, Proton has worked great. I'm playing new games like Anno 117
       | on my 2019 vintage RX 5700xt and am having a blast. I'm about to
       | wipe my Windows 10 partition and not look back.
       | 
       | I still have an M1 laptop with a broken screen that is going
       | strong in clam shell mode, but once it dies or I can no longer
       | run Sequoia for whatever reason, I'll be tempted to abandon macOS
       | if Apple can't move beyond the mess they've made with Tahoe.
        
       | michaelhoffman wrote:
       | I understand why this is bad, but I _personally_ would sign up
       | for a Microsoft account anyway. Mainly, I don 't want all my
       | stuff in "C:\Users\micha". Is there a way to set your username?
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Unless you prepare a custom image for installation, a non-local
         | account is created, but you can replace it by a local account
         | later.
        
       | jimbo808 wrote:
       | If/when support for Linux gaming becomes widespread and easy to
       | navigate with few configuration hurdles, Windows will die very
       | quickly. As for MacOS, I genuinely can't wrap my head around why
       | anyone who is technically competent would prefer that OS.
        
         | herpdyderp wrote:
         | Unfortunately sim racing requires Windows (that's my last
         | holdout).
         | 
         | As far as macOS goes, Linux is so good but I also like my
         | peripherals to work for my job where I don't have time to
         | tinker all day.
        
         | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
         | Fewer and fewer people own home computers anymore. I would not
         | be surprised if ChromeOS laptops outpace home Windows install
         | at some point.
         | 
         | The bastion of Windows installations will still be the
         | corporate market. Outside of developer circles, Macs are only
         | used by executives - the drones still get underspecced Windows
         | laptops.
        
         | paulryanrogers wrote:
         | Doubtful this will ever happen for the most lucrative part of
         | desk/lap-top gaming: multiplayer and micro transaction games.
         | They require anti-cheat to keep the money flowing. And IIUC,
         | Linux fundamentally grants too much user control for effective
         | anti-cheat.
        
         | JCattheATM wrote:
         | > As for MacOS, I genuinely can't wrap my head around why
         | anyone who is technically competent would prefer that OS.
         | 
         | Even technical users can succumb to Apple's Reality Distortion
         | Field.
        
       | lencastre wrote:
       | what about that mass grave site ... asking for a friedn
        
       | spwa4 wrote:
       | The only official way to activate Windows 11/10 without internet
       | is to insert a linux installation USB stick. Got it.
        
       | bossyTeacher wrote:
       | The responses here baffle me. This IS GOOD NEWS. HN more than
       | anyone should understand this. Every mistake Microsoft makes with
       | Windows is a free win for Linux. We should celebrate this and
       | encourage Nadella to make Windows as hostile as possible. Add
       | that nasty recall ai spyware, put ads everywhere.
       | 
       | People here hating on Nadella and loving Ballmer are missing the
       | point. This is not a partisan issue. Windows stopped being good a
       | long time ago. Arguably XP was the last good version of Windows.
       | 
       | Windows becoming an OS mostly for corporate types is beneficial
       | for the world. Let us celebrate!
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | A decent amount of people actually like Windows as graphical
         | user interface, and some of the related tech. That's a loss
         | that Linux can't replace in a comparable fashion. Unless
         | https://loss32.org/ becomes a viable reality, that is.
        
         | joshribakoff wrote:
         | The flaw in this logic is they are a monopoly. They continue to
         | profit off of the bad user experience, that's been their
         | business model since day one, and they keep posting growth
         | numbers. I hope they do die, but in the meantime the bad
         | decisions still negatively impact users, and many of them
         | didn't have a choice.
         | 
         | The other flaw in your logic is assuming that markets are free.
         | A free market is one that is both informed and consents. In
         | this market, there is both misinformation and a lack of
         | consent.
        
       | EAtmULFO wrote:
       | Server 2022 > Windows 11 for desktop OS. No bloatware, less
       | garbage, almost identical driver and application support.
        
         | andix wrote:
         | An expensive solution.
        
           | Retr0id wrote:
           | Well, only if you pay for it
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | It EOLs in October this year, however.
        
           | jasomill wrote:
           | Server 2025, then?
           | 
           | Though admittedly $1,176/16 cores is a bit steep for a
           | desktop OS, and don't forget the CALs if you plan to use file
           | sharing or Remote Desktop (or third party alternatives like
           | Steam Remote Play).
        
         | hasperdi wrote:
         | Why Windows Server 2022, not 2025? Can't the latter be used as
         | desktop OS?
        
       | throawayonthe wrote:
       | You should still be able to activate windows offline by using the
       | "ZeroCID" or "KMS4k" methods with
       | https://massgrave.dev/chart#basics
        
       | ivanjermakov wrote:
       | If you think Windows is bad, imagine there are people paying real
       | money to use it.
        
       | hexo wrote:
       | Windows becoming less and less relevant every day and then they
       | do this. 2026 is gonna be true Year of the Linux Desktop.
        
       | llmslave2 wrote:
       | Microsoft? Nah, it's called Microslop now.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46471081
        
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       (page generated 2026-01-03 23:00 UTC)