[HN Gopher] OpenAI's cash burn will be one of the big bubble que...
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       OpenAI's cash burn will be one of the big bubble questions of 2026
        
       Author : 1vuio0pswjnm7
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2025-12-30 21:44 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.economist.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.economist.com)
        
       | dredmorbius wrote:
       | Archive/Paywall: <https://archive.is/rHPk3>
        
         | bariswheel wrote:
         | thank you!
        
       | laweijfmvo wrote:
       | why does the article used words like burn and incinerate,
       | implying that OpenAI is somehow making money disappear or
       | something? They're spending it; someone is profiting here, even
       | if it's not OpenAI. Is it all Nvidia?
        
         | zaphar wrote:
         | Because that's normal language idioms in financial analysis
         | reporting?
        
         | popalchemist wrote:
         | Because typically one expect a return on investment with that
         | level of spending. Not only have they run at a loss for years,
         | their spending is expected to increase, with no path to
         | profitability in sight.
        
           | bdangubic wrote:
           | not that I disagree but would it be fair to say though that
           | we have seen this before where it turned out OK? say Uber?
           | Amazon?
        
             | oh_my_goodness wrote:
             | To become the next Uber, do I just need to run huge losses?
        
         | simonw wrote:
         | Your burn is the money you spend that exceeds the money you
         | earn, see also "burn rate".
        
         | wat10000 wrote:
         | "Burn rate" is a standard financial term for how much money a
         | startup is losing. If you have $1 cash on hand and a burn rate
         | of $2 a year, then you have six months before you either need
         | to get profitable, raise more money, or shut down.
        
         | lexicality wrote:
         | I suspect most of it is going to utilities for power, water and
         | racking.
         | 
         | That being said, if I was Sam Altman I'd also be stocking up on
         | yachts, mansions and gold plated toilets while the books are
         | still private. If there's $10bn a year in outgoings no one's
         | going to notice a million here and there.
        
       | andsoitis wrote:
       | In a parallel universe, governments invest in the
       | compute/datacenters (read: infra), and let model makers compete
       | on the same playing field.
        
         | websiteapi wrote:
         | why would they do that? not to mention governments are already
         | doing that indirectly by taking equity stakes in some of the
         | companies.
        
           | candiddevmike wrote:
           | Same reason they should own access lines: everyone needs
           | rackspace/access, it should be treated like a public service
           | to avoid rent seeing. Having a data center in every city
           | where all of the local lines terminate into could open the
           | doors to a lot of interesting use cases, really help with
           | local resiliency/decentralization efforts, and provide a
           | great alternative to cloud providers that doesn't break the
           | bank.
        
             | websiteapi wrote:
             | should the government own all types of "public services"?
             | e.g. search index, video serving infra, etc?
        
         | simonw wrote:
         | If that did happen, how would the government then issue those
         | resources?
         | 
         | OpenAI ask for 1m GPUs for a month, Anthropic ask for 2m, the
         | government data center only has 500,000, and a new startup
         | wants 750,000 as well.
         | 
         | Do you hand them out to the most convincing pitch? Hopefully
         | not to the biggest donor to your campaign.
         | 
         | Now the most successful AI lab is the one that's best at
         | pitching the government for additional resources.
         | 
         | UPDATE: See comment below for the answer to this question:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46438390#46439067
        
           | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
           | National HPC labs have been over subscribed for decades with
           | extensive queueing/time sharing allocation systems.
           | 
           | It would still likely devolve into most-money-wins, but it is
           | not an insurmountable political obstacle to arrange some sort
           | of sharing.
           | 
           | Edit: I meant to say over _subscribed_ , not over
           | provisioned. There are far more jobs in the queue than can be
           | handled at once
        
             | simonw wrote:
             | Huh, TIL - thanks for the correction.
             | 
             | https://www.ornl.gov/news/doe-incite-program-
             | seeks-2026-prop...
             | 
             | > The Innovative and Novel Computational Impact on Theory
             | and Experiment, or INCITE, program has announced the 2026
             | Call for Proposals, inviting researchers to apply for
             | access to some of the world's most powerful high-
             | performance computing systems.
             | 
             | > The proposal submission window runs from April 11 to June
             | 16, 2025, offering an opportunity for scientific teams to
             | secure substantial computational resources for large-scale
             | research projects in fields such as scientific modeling,
             | simulation, data analytics and artificial intelligence.
             | [...]
             | 
             | > Individual awards typically range from 500,000 to
             | 1,000,000 node-hours on Aurora and Frontier and 100,000 to
             | 250,000 node-hours on Polaris, with the possibility of
             | larger allocations for exceptional proposals. [...]
             | 
             | > The selection process involves a rigorous peer review,
             | assessing both scientific merit and computational
             | readiness. Awards will be announced in November 2025, with
             | access to resources beginning in 2026.
             | 
             | Not sure OpenAI/Anthropic etc would be OK with a six month
             | gap between application and getting access to the
             | resources, but this does indeed demonstrate that government
             | issued super-computing resources is a previously solved
             | problem.
        
           | pear01 wrote:
           | Well, people bid for USA government resources all the time.
           | It's why the Washington DC suburbs have some of the country's
           | most affluent neighborhoods among their ranks.
           | 
           | In theory it makes the process more transparent and fair,
           | although slower. That calculus has been changing as of late,
           | perhaps for both good and bad. See for example the Pentagon's
           | latest support of drone startups run by twenty-year-olds.
           | 
           | The question of public and private distinctions in these
           | various schemes are very interesting and imo, underexplored.
           | Especially when you consider how these private LLMs are
           | trained on public data.
        
         | wat10000 wrote:
         | That seems like a terrible idea. Data centers aren't a natural
         | monopoly. Regulate the externalities and let it flourish.
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | That's malinvestment. Too much overhead, disconnected from long
         | term demand. The government doesn't have expertise, isn't lean
         | and nimble. What if it all just blows over? (It won't? But who
         | knows?)
         | 
         | Everything is happening exactly as it should. If the "bubble"
         | "pops", that's just the economic laws doing what they naturally
         | do.
         | 
         | The government has better things to do. Geopolitics, trade,
         | transportation, resources, public health, consumer safety,
         | jobs, economy, defense, regulatory activities, etc.
        
         | aucisson_masque wrote:
         | I'd rather stay far away from this parallel universe.
         | 
         | Why would you want my money to be used to build datacenter that
         | won't benefit me ? I might use a LLM once a month, many people
         | never use it.
         | 
         | Let the one who use it pay for it.
        
           | inerte wrote:
           | That's like every government initiative. Same as healthcare?
           | School? I mean if you don't have children why do you pay
           | taxes... and roads if you don't drive? I mean the examples
           | are so many... why do you bring this argument that if it
           | doesn't benefit you directly right now today, it shouldn't be
           | done?
        
             | magpi3 wrote:
             | Healthcare, schools, roads, generative AI. One of these
             | things is not like the others.
        
               | inerte wrote:
               | We gave incentives to broadband, why not generative AI?
        
           | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
           | You are already paying for several national lab HPC centers.
           | These are used for government/university research - no idea
           | if commercial interests can rent time on them. The big ones
           | are running weather, astronomy simulations, nuclear
           | explosions, biological sequencing, and so on.
        
         | cambrianentropy wrote:
         | In a completely alternate dimension, a quarter of the capital
         | being invested in AI literally just goes towards making sure
         | everyone has quality food and water.
        
           | dmitrygr wrote:
           | Without capital invested in the past we wouldn't have almost
           | anything of modern technology. That has done a lot more for
           | everyone, including food affordability, than actually simply
           | buying food for people to eat once.
        
           | marcellus23 wrote:
           | I'd rather live in a universe where that money is taken out
           | of the military budget.
        
         | paulcole wrote:
         | Do you like this idea?
        
         | Zigurd wrote:
         | Prediction: on this thread you'll get a lot of talk about how
         | government would slow things down. But when the AI bubble
         | starts to look shaky, see how fast all the tech bros line up
         | for a "public private partnership."
        
         | nutjob2 wrote:
         | That sounds like a nightmare.
        
       | mvkel wrote:
       | The fact is nobody has any idea what OpenAI's cash burn is.
       | Measuring how much they're raising is not an adequate proxy.
       | 
       | For all we know, they could be accumulating capital to weather an
       | AI winter.
       | 
       | It's also worth noting that OpenAI has not trained a new model
       | since gpt4o (all subsequent models are routing systems and prompt
       | chains built on top of 4), so the idea of OpenAI being stuck in
       | some kind of runaway training expense is not real.
        
         | micromacrofoot wrote:
         | they're paying million dollar salaries to engineers and
         | building data centers, it's not a huge mystery where their
         | expenses are
        
         | wahnfrieden wrote:
         | wasn't 4.5 new
        
         | Imustaskforhelp wrote:
         | Didn't they create Sora and other models and literally burned
         | so much money with their AI video app which they wanted to make
         | a social media but what ended up happening was that they burned
         | billions of dollars.
        
         | computerphage wrote:
         | Why do you think they have not trained a new model since 4o?
         | You think the GPT-5 release is /just/ routing to differently
         | sized 4o models?
        
           | wahnfrieden wrote:
           | they're incorrect about the routing statement but it is not a
           | newly trained model
        
         | ta9000 wrote:
         | How are they updating the data then? Wouldn't the cutoff date
         | be getting further away from today?
        
       | adriand wrote:
       | This article doesn't add anything to what we know already. It's
       | still an open question what happens with the labs this coming
       | year, but I personally think Anthropic's focus on coding
       | represents the clearest path to subscriber-based success (typical
       | SaaS) whereas OpenAI has a clear opportunity with advertising.
       | Both of these paths could be very lucrative. Meanwhile I expect
       | Google will continue to struggle with making products that people
       | actually want to use, irrespective of the quality of its models.
        
         | esel2k wrote:
         | Where does google struggle to make products people don't want
         | to use? Is it a personal opinion?
        
       | gip wrote:
       | There is no doubt that OpenAI is taking a lot of risks by betting
       | that AI adoption will translate into revenues in the very short
       | term. And that could really happen imo (with a low probability
       | sure, but worth the risk for VCs? Probably).
        
       | Avicebron wrote:
       | On the radio they mentioned that the total global chocolate
       | market is ~100B, I googled it when I was home and it seems to be
       | about ~135B. Apparently that is ... all chocolate, everywhere..
       | OpenAI's valuation is about 500B. Maybe going up to like 835B.
       | 
       | I'd love to see the rationale that OpenAI (not "AI" everywhere)
       | is more valuable than chocolate globally.
       | 
       | ... so crash early 2026?
        
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       (page generated 2025-12-30 23:00 UTC)