[HN Gopher] Growing up in "404 Not Found": China's nuclear city ...
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       Growing up in "404 Not Found": China's nuclear city in the Gobi
       Desert
        
       Author : Vincent_Yan404
       Score  : 651 points
       Date   : 2025-12-28 06:43 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (substack.com)
        
       | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
       | Hi HN, OP here.
       | 
       | I grew up in "Factory 404," a secret nuclear industrial city in
       | the Gobi Desert that officially didn't exist on public maps. This
       | is a memoir about my childhood there.
       | 
       | It was a surreal place: we had elite scientists living next to
       | laborers, a zoo in the middle of the desert, and distinct
       | "communist" welfare, all hidden behind a classified code.
       | 
       | This is Part 1 of the story. I'm happy to answer any questions
       | about life in a Chinese nuclear base!
        
         | nrhrjrjrjtntbt wrote:
         | Thanks Vincent for submitting, this is really fascinating.
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Thank you! I will post the second part soon.
        
             | grumbelbart wrote:
             | Stupid question, but is 404 the real designator of that
             | city, or a pun towards the HTTP error code?
             | 
             | Edit: And what a great read, thank you!
        
               | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
               | Not a stupid question at all! 404 is the real, official
               | designator (Factory 404) established in 1958, long before
               | the web existed.
               | 
               | The coincidence with the HTTP error code is purely
               | accidental, yet incredibly poetic--because for decades,
               | this city literally could not be found on any public map.
        
               | netsharc wrote:
               | I wonder why 404, any relation to 4 being similar to the
               | word "death" in Chinese?
        
               | embedding-shape wrote:
               | My first guess would be that they at one point decided to
               | use numbers to designate locations instead of names, to
               | make it easier for them to be secret (eg "codenames").
               | Then at one point someone figured that actually, lets not
               | just thoughtlessly increment the numbers, but pick random
               | numbers between 1-1000 so we add even more confusion.
               | Kind of like Seal Team 6 I guess.
        
               | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
               | Yes,4 sounds similar to death in Chinese. But 404 was
               | just a coincidence.
        
         | tgv wrote:
         | Well written, and interesting. I'm slightly surprised at the
         | detailed memories you have from such an early age.
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Thank you! To me, my childhood memories are imprinted in my
           | mind as vivid images. I'm simply using language to describe
           | the pictures that I still see in my head.
        
         | hermitcrab wrote:
         | Very interesting, thank you.
        
         | ocfnash wrote:
         | Thank you for sharing these memories.
         | 
         | I'd be very interested to hear any thoughts you might have
         | about Jung Chang's book "Wild Swans".
         | 
         | I read this book a year or two ago and learned a lot from it,
         | but I also learned that many people who grew up in China take
         | issue with the author's account. I'd be grateful for any
         | remarks you may be able to share.
        
           | em500 wrote:
           | What are you looking for exactly? And what issues did you
           | hear from others who grew up in China? Most of the historical
           | / political events (Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution)
           | are fairly accurate, while personal / family experiences are
           | necessarily subjective. China is a huge, diverse country with
           | a vast range of experiences from people growing up in
           | different regions and eras (just like the US, or Europe), so
           | it's hard to dispute any personal / family experience.
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | You've touched on a very sensitive and important point.
           | 
           | It's true that many people who grew up in China have a
           | complicated relationship with narratives that focus on
           | negative historical periods. There is often a defensive
           | reaction, a feeling that such stories are 'smearing' the
           | country's image.
           | 
           | However, as a writer, I believe that truth is always more
           | important than a curated image. Authentic memories are often
           | scarce, precisely because they are difficult to tell. My goal
           | with the '404' series is to provide a piece of that missing
           | truth--not to judge, but to document a reality that actually
           | existed. In the long run, I believe a society is better
           | served by facing its complex past than by forgetting it.
        
             | avhception wrote:
             | Hello from Germany, and thanks for the blog post.
             | Fascinating read. I liked how you intertwined the personal
             | point of view with the bigger picture.
             | 
             | "Facing a complex past" is a big theme in Germany, too, of
             | course, and I think it's the only proper way to deal with
             | it. Direct witness accounts and retelling are important and
             | add something that a dry history book can't provide. Keep
             | up the good work!
        
         | microtonal wrote:
         | I just wanted to say 'thank you!'. This was a really
         | interesting read, looking forward to the next part!
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Thank you! I will post on Monday.
        
             | saagarjha wrote:
             | Please do share it here :)
        
         | yorwba wrote:
         | Since you mention a trip to Beijing, I wonder what the security
         | precautions were to keep the secret base secret. I assume
         | visitors from other cities would need to apply for a travel
         | permit similar to the one still required for some border areas
         | in Xinjiang and Tibet, but were there also restrictions on
         | people leaving?
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | That's a great question. In the early days, physical travel
           | permits were indeed the norm. But the most effective
           | 'security precaution' was psychological.
           | 
           | We had secrecy education (Bao Mi Jiao Yu ) starting as early
           | as primary school. We were taught from a very young age that
           | our city didn't exist to the outside world, and we simply
           | didn't talk about it. But when I was a kid ,I didn't know
           | anything about 404.
        
             | sophrosyne42 wrote:
             | Given those precautions and your training, was it hard to
             | share about it? Aren't you worried about the Chinese
             | government punishing you for sharing?
        
               | saltwatercowboy wrote:
               | He sells a storytelling course... perhaps this is meant
               | to be a 'gotcha' where he reveals the con after the fact?
               | My guess is there are people reading this who know
               | something isn't quite right.
        
               | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
               | I can personally guarantee that this piece is 100% non-
               | fiction.My course also focuses on narrative writing
               | techniques.Does 'Storytelling' have to imply fiction?In
               | Chinese "story(Gu Shi )" just things happened, it can be
               | real or fiction .
        
               | schoen wrote:
               | There are a lot of subtleties about connotation here. I
               | would say that "storytelling" traditionally primarily
               | meant fiction, but some modern uses also include
               | narrative technique generally, including nonfiction and
               | also marketing. There may also be older traditions of
               | nonfiction storytelling, but that has some connotation of
               | a ritualized or formalized activity (e.g. children
               | sitting in a circle listening to a recitation).
               | 
               | The term that has no connotations of fiction is probably
               | "narrative".
               | 
               | I think many languages have closely related words for
               | fictional narratives and nonfictional narratives.
        
               | onraglanroad wrote:
               | I don't think that's true. Perhaps in your dialect of
               | English, but if I was down the pub and someone started
               | with, "Did I ever tell you the story of when I...", I
               | certainly wouldn't assume it was fictional.
        
               | johanyc wrote:
               | Here's a chinese article about 404 published back in
               | 2020.
               | 
               | https://chaiwanbenpost.net/article/%25E4%25B8%25AD%25E5%2
               | 59C...
        
               | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
               | And how did you know I sold storytelling course before,
               | did I mention it somewhere?
        
               | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
               | I did write and publish this story in Chinese first.So I
               | hope it's fine.
        
         | thenthenthen wrote:
         | Thank you for sharing. I have been researching this topic for
         | about ten years now and no first hand accounts like to talk or
         | are they alive anymore, this is a very important story,
         | especially in contrast the the dominant Western narratives,
         | thank you!
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Thank you for this profound comment. It is incredibly
           | humbling to hear this from someone who has spent a decade
           | researching the topic.
           | 
           | You are right--the generation that built '404' is aging, and
           | many of their stories are fading into silence. One of my
           | primary motivations for writing this was the realization that
           | if I didn't document these memories now, they might be lost
           | forever.
           | 
           | I hope my first-hand account can provide a more nuanced,
           | human layer to the historical data you've gathered. There is
           | so much more to tell beyond the official records.
        
           | thomassmith65 wrote:
           | As often as not, these days, when someone online criticizes
           | the West, it's for something absurd (eg: Churchill
           | interfering with Hitler's continental invasions, or America
           | using the word _' regime'_ when discussing Iran). Obviously,
           | other times the criticism is wholly justified.
           | 
           | What _" dominant Western narratives"_ apply here? I'm not
           | going to bicker. I'm just curious.
        
             | idiotsecant wrote:
             | There's no need to be defensive. We are largely westerners
             | on a western website studying history from a western
             | perspective. There's nothing wrong with that, it's natural.
             | It just means we lose some understanding of events if
             | that's the only side we know. OP is performing a service by
             | documenting first-person history, and doesn't need to
             | justify why it's important. It's important.
        
               | sophrosyne42 wrote:
               | I'm still curious what specific narratives you had in
               | mind when you said "dominant Western narratives"
        
               | xanthor wrote:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46410398
        
               | sersi wrote:
               | To be fair, my father in law who is Chinese and had to
               | exile himself during the cultural revolution would pretty
               | much say the same thing about the Cultural Revolution.
               | Educated people in China who lived through it will
               | certainly criticise the Cultural Revolution (or The Great
               | Leap Forward for that matter) if they are in a situation
               | when they can be honest about it.
               | 
               | So I'm not sure that specific comment would be considered
               | to be a "dominant western narrative" unless you're going
               | to tell me that older (and so who have lived through it)
               | educated people in China who don't speak a word of
               | English have a western mindset because they're educated.
        
               | xanthor wrote:
               | Read Dongping Han
        
               | sersi wrote:
               | Oh the fact that there has been some positives from the
               | cultural revolution (by having educated people sent to
               | the farm and rural area) doesn't stop the fact that the
               | cultural revolution was a net negative for the country.
               | How many works of arts have been destroyed due to it? How
               | many people suffered? Nothing is ever white or black but
               | it doesn't mean that we can take a small positive outcome
               | and use that to justify atrocities.
        
               | xanthor wrote:
               | The fact that you immediately think you know what the
               | author I referenced has written and continue to plow
               | forward with your pre-established conclusions is evidence
               | of the "dominant western narrative" effect.
               | 
               | Accounts from well-off diaspora of any country will
               | always be negative. It's a self-selecting group with
               | specific interests.
        
               | sersi wrote:
               | I mean I skimmed it earlier but I do plan to read it.
               | That said my pre-established conclusions are based on
               | first hand negative accounts of people who currently
               | still live in China some of which do not speak English so
               | weren't influenced by any "western narrative" (where I
               | also lived for a number of years before moving to HK).
               | Those are not accounts from a well-off diaspora.
               | 
               | EDIT: By the way, it's not that hard either to find books
               | written by Chinese writers not part of the diaspora that
               | are critical of the cultural revolution (Serve the people
               | by Yan Lianke, 3 body problem by Liu Cixin) or the great
               | leap forward (4 books by Yan Lianke). Obviously, writers
               | living in China that have to deal with censorship tend to
               | be less directly critical of it compared to writers from
               | the diaspora but that doesn't stop some criticism to
               | shine through.a
        
               | therealpygon wrote:
               | It's a valid question, despite the cynical delivery.
        
               | throw10920 wrote:
               | > There's no need to be defensive.
               | 
               | This is extremely manipulative. The only reasons to say
               | something like this are to shame the person you're
               | respond to and/or attack and discredit them and force
               | them to respond defensively. Don't do this.
               | 
               | (it also immediately outs you as not having any valid
               | points to make, because someone with a reasonable
               | response doesn't need to stoop to emotional attacks)
        
               | thomassmith65 wrote:
               | My comment was asking for details about its parent
               | comment, not about the main post.
               | 
               | I was curious about the 'narratives' it mentioned.
               | 
               | They might be wrongheaded; they might be valid.
               | 
               | Either way, it piques my interest.
        
             | andruby wrote:
             | Not OP, but one example could perhaps be American
             | Prometheus and the Oppenheimer film. I would consider them
             | "dominant Western narratives" about the origin of the
             | nuclear bomb.
             | 
             | And like the person said, there is nothing inherently wrong
             | with such a narrative. Like them I'm also curious about
             | non-western narratives.
             | 
             | If most groups, cultures, religions, countries were more
             | curious about "non-native" stories, maybe we'd all be a bit
             | more open-minded and understanding.
        
               | RealityVoid wrote:
               | I think Oppenheimer is pretty fair as it goes. It's
               | pretty clear with it being the US perspective and they
               | give credit to the other countries that they have good
               | scientists that will figure the thing out (and they did).
               | I think for exposing a man's experience, it's quite good.
               | What makes me wrong? (An honest invitation to illuminate
               | me)
        
               | thomassmith65 wrote:
               | The last paragraph is true, but up to the point where one
               | becomes a useful idiot for a totalitarian state. I don't
               | mean _you_ , but on social media there are quite a few
               | people like that.
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | I don't think I'm criticizing Western narratives. This is
             | simply my personal perspective and experience growing up
             | there.
        
               | girvo wrote:
               | They weren't accusing you of that, but asking the other
               | commenter what the meant :)
        
               | thomassmith65 wrote:
               | I know! It was a fantastic read. My comment was referring
               | to another comment with an ambiguous reference.
        
         | viktorcode wrote:
         | Just wanted to say thank you for sharing this view into
         | entirely different world for many of us!
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Thank you for the kind words! It's been an incredible
           | experience sharing this 'different world' with the HN
           | community today.
        
         | moffers wrote:
         | Was there anything you can recall that 404 maybe had but the
         | rest of China might not have because of its special status?
         | Access to newer consumer technologies, or something like that?
         | Just was curious if there was something "better" about living
         | in a government secret beyond long train rides and melting
         | neighbors.
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Exactly. To give you some concrete examples that I'll dive
           | deeper into in Part 2:
           | 
           | Soviet Architecture: Many of our residential and
           | administrative buildings were designed and built by Soviet
           | experts, giving the city a distinct 'Stalinist empire'
           | aesthetic that felt very grand compared to the surrounding
           | desert.
           | 
           | Elite Salaries: The wage levels in our factory were on par
           | with those in Beijing, which was extraordinary given our
           | remote location.
           | 
           | The 'Post-Scarcity' Bubble: For many families, daily expenses
           | were minimal because the 'unit' (Danwei) provided almost
           | everything. We regularly received rations of high-quality
           | rice, flour, and oil as part of our work benefits, so we
           | rarely had to spend money on basic survival.
           | 
           | In a country that was still struggling with scarcity, living
           | in 404 felt like living in a futuristic, well-provisioned
           | fortress. Stay tuned for Part 2, where I'll talk more about
           | this 'gilded' lifestyle.
        
             | eastbound wrote:
             | You've written more words in answers than in the original
             | article. Thank you very much for giving us this privilege
             | and providing "support" for details of your writings.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | > _404 is a classified code for a nuclear industrial base._
         | 
         | Can you expand? A code under what system? What were some other
         | code numbers and what (unclassified) things did they refer to?
         | Did each code refer to a specific city or specific factory? Or
         | were all cities/factories dedicated to a certain type of
         | industry or military objective classified under the same code?
         | Why did they teach you this code number growing up?
         | 
         | I'm really fascinated by this. Fantastic story overall, can't
         | wait for part 2!
        
           | jdietrich wrote:
           | Most things in the Chinese military system are numbered
           | rather than named. Military units are numbered twice - a
           | public cover designator and a private true unit designator,
           | originally four and later five digits. Factories got a three
           | digit number - 296 for the small arms factory in Jiangshe,
           | 816 for the uranium enrichment plant in Fuling and so on.
           | Everyone in and around Factory 404 would have known it as
           | such, but the _mere existence_ of Factory 404 was a state
           | secret.
           | 
           | The existence of such a large and conspicuous secret might
           | seem bizarre to the post-cold-war mind, but it was fairly
           | common in the West too. For example, the British Telecom
           | Tower in central London stands at 189 metres tall and had a
           | revolving restaurant that was open to the public, but was
           | also a designated site under the Official Secrets Act.
        
             | eastbound wrote:
             | Is it victim of the enumeration vulnerability, ie between
             | 403 and 405 you can guess what they were busy with and
             | therefore identify the activity? Or do they randomize the
             | numbers, but then just 3 digits seems little for such a big
             | country?
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | I don't know the code system, for me they are random 3
           | numbers(like Plant 504 : A uranium enrichment facility.)Thank
           | you liking it, I will post the second part on Monday.
        
           | orbital-decay wrote:
           | These are just numbered designations for many military
           | organizations, just like in the Soviet Union. For example,
           | pre-WWII Plant No.8 -> Artillery Plant 88 -> post-WWII
           | Research Institute 88, nowadays known as TsNIIMash, with
           | Special Design Bureau 88 led by Korolyov (known as RSC
           | Energia today) as a spin-off.
        
         | ElijahLynn wrote:
         | Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
        
         | quakeguy wrote:
         | Great article, thx for sharing it! What i want to know, where
         | exactly is this city? I mean geographically, i even could not
         | locate it on GMaps or the like?? I mean, i get it, thats the
         | whole point isnt it? Still curious.
        
           | lamek wrote:
           | 40.230000,97.360000
        
           | AlotOfReading wrote:
           | https://www.google.com/maps/place/40%C2%B013'48.0%22N+97%C2%.
           | ..
        
             | quakeguy wrote:
             | Damn, that looks awful, those tailings alone...
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | And it looks like they have their own dedicated coal
               | powerplant.
        
               | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
               | Yes,and I feel it's the sweetest home for many years.
        
         | allan_s wrote:
         | Thanks a lot, I really first thought "404" was just a geek
         | reference and not the actual code name !
         | 
         | I have some very good friends which are Chinese but are not
         | able to read English, do you mind if I do a AI translation, and
         | if you can check it to see if it translate what you're trying
         | to convey ? (I propose that as I think it would be too much to
         | ask to ask to redo the text in Chinese)
         | 
         | Edit: haha I see you actually did the reverse ! Do you mind
         | sharing also the original CHinese script ? That would also help
         | me with my own mandarin learning !
        
           | oofbey wrote:
           | Is it just a coincidence that the HTTP code for "not found"
           | became the same as the code name for this city?
        
             | marssaxman wrote:
             | I find it hard to imagine otherwise. HTTP codes are based
             | on the server return code system used in FTP, first
             | published in 1971, where each of the three digits had a
             | specific role and the values simply counted up from 0-9 as
             | different meanings were assigned. HTTP is a little looser
             | about the syntax, but it's the same general idea. Given the
             | scheme, _something_ was going to be code 404.
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | Yes,it's just a coincidence.
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | That's so kind of you!
           | 
           | I did write and publish this story in Chinese first. You
           | don't need an AI translation for them; the original text
           | exists and has been quite popular in the Chinese corner of
           | the internet.You can search for it using the title:<<Wo Zai
           | 404Chang Da >>
        
             | allan_s wrote:
             | Zai Teng Xun Xin Wen Zhao Dao Liao ,Tai Xie Xie Ni !Wo Zhun
             | Bei Man Man Kan ,Zhen You Yi Si !
        
               | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
               | He Mu Qian De Ban Ben You Yi Dian Chu Ru ,Zhong Wen Ban
               | Mei You "Fang She Xing Sha Fa "Zhe Bu Fen .
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | I do not wish harm to befall you, but is it that because
               | of CCP censors that you removed it from the Chinese
               | version? Did they ask you to remove it or did you do that
               | proactively?
        
               | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
               | When I first write this in Chinese, they didn't censor
               | anything, just let me published without question.The
               | first guy wrote this been called by phone, they said it's
               | secret, but nothing happened later. Before I published
               | here I add some part, for example, the context of the
               | famine, in Chinese version, people know what I talked
               | about.
        
             | below43 wrote:
             | Thanks. It's interesting to compare the original HN article
             | with the browser-translated story (from
             | https://news.qq.com/rain/a/20240110A03FKJ00).
             | 
             | I definitely appreciate the style of the HN English
             | article, but I think the browser-translated version
             | possibly gives a bit more context to some of the story.
             | 
             | e.g. This is the English version _" We would clutch candy
             | wrappers in our hands, giggling endlessly. The teacher
             | would scold us for disturbing the nap, but we Hid behind
             | our parents, still laughing."_
             | 
             | This is the browser-translated version: _" I kept giggling
             | when I saw her, and she giggled too, and we kept laughing
             | with small sugar paper during our lunch break. When my
             | parents came to pick us up, the teacher criticized us for
             | being undisciplined, and we still hid behind our parents
             | and giggled."_
        
         | jl6 wrote:
         | Hi OP, as a side question, are you using an LLM like ChatGPT to
         | translate or write your comments here?
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Yes,English is not my first langue, I have to use AI
           | translate for now.
        
         | edgineer wrote:
         | What would you say to someone who has long been fascinated by
         | nuclear weaponry and hopes to one day witness a test explosion?
         | 
         | I see even China hasn't tested in decades and so my chances of
         | doing this are close to nil, but I ask because your answer
         | could tell more how you feel about the technology and its
         | future. My physics professor told me to study supernovae
         | instead.
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | To be honest, for me, nuclear explosions only exist in the
           | imagery of propaganda and documentaries. I am not a
           | physicist; I don't understand nuclear physics on a technical
           | level.
           | 
           | My perspective on 'the nuclear' is purely emotional and
           | sensory--I simply find it terrifying. I resonate much more
           | with the raw, human suffering described in Svetlana
           | Alexievich's Voices from Chernobyl than I do with the
           | scientific future of nuclear power.
        
         | SilverElfin wrote:
         | > During the "Three Years of Hardship" (1959-1961), when more
         | than 30 million people across China starved to death, our
         | factory area faced a desperate crisis. At one point, there were
         | only a few days' worth of rations left in the warehouses, and
         | workers began to suffer from severe edema due to malnutrition.
         | 
         | I was curious about this part and lingering perspectives among
         | Chinese citizens. How do they regard the past mass starvations
         | and deaths in the 1900s? Are these events well known? Are they
         | seen as a catastrophe? Do they blame someone (like the
         | government) or is it seen as the cost of progress or a natural
         | disaster? Do old and young people see these events differently
         | from each other?
         | 
         | Thanks for writing and sharing!
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | I think it's well known, cause that generation are still
           | alive.In the Northern China, the situation was often more
           | dire because the land is unforgiving. In the South, people at
           | least had the chance to supplement their rations by fishing
           | in the rivers.While the official term often points to
           | 'natural disasters,'it is widely recognized as a man-made
           | catastrophe.
           | 
           | I remember when I was 4 or 5 years old, my mother told me
           | stories about those years. As a child, I didn't understand
           | the historical context; I thought mass starvation was
           | something that happened cyclically, like the seasons. I
           | vividly remember asking her: 'Does this happen every few
           | years? Should we start stockpiling food now just in case?'
           | 
           | Even today, you will see older Chinese people who cannot bear
           | to see a single grain of rice left on a plate. It's not just
           | frugality; it's a ghost from 1959.
           | 
           | A common criticism of Chinese people is that they 'eat
           | everything,' but a major reason for this is that China has
           | endured more famines than almost any other nation in human
           | history.
        
         | zerofor_conduct wrote:
         | Fascinating and well told - many thanks!
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Thank you!
        
         | jama211 wrote:
         | Amazing story, thank you for sharing it
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Thank you! I will post the second part on Monday.
        
         | sgnelson wrote:
         | Did you interview Yuan Gongpu or was this part from another
         | source?
         | 
         | I'm interested in the laborers who did the work, not just the
         | scientists who designed everything.
         | 
         | Thanks for your story.
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Sorry I didn't,his Chinese name is Yuan Gong Pu ,you can
           | search this and there and many articles about him.
        
       | nephihaha wrote:
       | 404 does sound a bit like a nightmare posting, and God knows what
       | the adults felt like. They probably couldn't say much. But
       | children see things very differently. I forwarded this on to
       | several people.
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Thank you for sharing this with others. You've hit on the exact
         | emotional core I wanted to explore.
         | 
         | For the adults, 404 was a place of immense pressure, secrecy,
         | and often sacrifice. But for us kids, it was just 'home.' We
         | played in the shadows of giants and nuclear reactors without a
         | second thought.
         | 
         | That contrast--the 'nightmare' for the parents and the
         | 'playground' for the children--is what makes these memories so
         | surreal to look back on. I'm glad that perspective resonated
         | with you.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Cool post!
       | 
       | Always interesting to read about people's lived realities that
       | are completely different
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Thank you! It was indeed a unique place to grow up. I'm
         | planning to publish the next chapter shortly, so stay tuned.
        
       | tomcam wrote:
       | My father-in-law worked there as a programmer during the Cultural
       | Revolution. There were always guards on the other side of the
       | (locked) office door. Sometimes they'd shoot at random things to
       | remind the nerds just who was in charge.
       | 
       | When I worked at Microsoft the biggest complaints were parking
       | and the variety of subsidized foods at the cafeteria.
        
         | eunos wrote:
         | There were programmers already during Cultural Revolution in
         | China?
        
           | magnio wrote:
           | China made its first computer in 1958 and its first 1
           | megaflop computer in 1973, so yes, their nascence of computer
           | programming preceded the Cultural Revolution, about 10 years
           | after the West.
        
           | nephihaha wrote:
           | The so called Cultural Revolution was certainly programming,
           | just not of the computer variety and at massive human cost.
        
           | p2detar wrote:
           | I could believe it, the timespan should be 1966-1976, so
           | maybe in late 70s. I know a lot of automation software was
           | being written in my Eastern European socialist country in
           | assembly language around 1974. I think mostly for 6800-based
           | chips like probably MOS 6502.
        
           | tomcam wrote:
           | It was also a Cold War. My father-in-law and mother-in-law
           | were both gifted mathematicians and mainframe programmers.
           | She also designed CPUs. She is a sweet sweet person and a
           | major badass. She is my hero. She's in her 80s and was more
           | accomplished in her 20s than you and I put together will ever
           | be.
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | That's exactly why I wanted to write this story. It is surreal
         | to think that while we worry about parking spots today, a
         | generation of brilliant minds was working under the barrel of a
         | gun (sometimes literally, as you described). The tension
         | between the 'Red' (political) and the 'Expert' (technical) was
         | a defining tragedy of that era.
        
           | konart wrote:
           | Korolev's story comes to mind instantly. Not only his of
           | course.
        
           | glimshe wrote:
           | I don't disagree with that, but I want to point out that this
           | is one facet of hedonic adaptation. People will always
           | complain about of what they don't have. For instance, most
           | inmates in inhumane prisons would love to have the life you
           | describe if they could enjoy some degree of freedom as a
           | result.
        
             | cwmoore wrote:
             | "inhumane prisons" is as redundant as "ink pen"
        
               | lijok wrote:
               | There are plenty of humane prisons out there.
        
               | bdangubic wrote:
               | not in america but yea...
        
               | lijok wrote:
               | Even in america
        
               | bdangubic wrote:
               | name one
        
               | mc32 wrote:
               | "Club Fed"
        
               | embedding-shape wrote:
               | Not every implementation of "prisons" in the world is
               | about payback or keeping harmful people out of society,
               | some places focuses on rehabilitation, and more often
               | than not, those prisons are not inhumane at all, because
               | that would defeat the very point of the prison.
               | 
               | Maybe if you consider "Can't walk wherever I want" as
               | inhumane, all of them are, but there is definitely a
               | difference between a prison in Rwanda vs one in Norway,
               | and probably one would feel humane after observing the
               | other.
        
             | mcphage wrote:
             | > most inmates in inhumane prisons would love to have the
             | life you describe if they could enjoy some degree of
             | freedom as a result.
             | 
             | On the other hand, people (generally) get sent to prison
             | for committing a crime, not for being incredibly smart or
             | talented.
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | This is where it gets psychologically complex. I've often
             | thought that while happiness often comes from having a
             | clear, defined place in a system, freedom is the terrifying
             | opposite--it's the absence of those boundaries.
             | 
             | My feelings toward 404 are deeply conflicted. It was a
             | cage, yet for a long time, I desperately wanted to go back.
             | As I explore in Part 2, the most tragic part wasn't the
             | strength of the cage, but its fragility. It vanished almost
             | overnight, and when the 'cage' that gave us our identity
             | and social standing disappeared, many of us lost our sense
             | of meaning entirely.
             | 
             | We were free, but we were also 'lost' in a world that no
             | longer had a place for us.
        
               | mc32 wrote:
               | That sounds similar to what some ex-Soviets relate. The
               | system was bad, but by and large had understandable rules
               | that you could use to your advantage, if you had the
               | right standing. Once that system collapsed, they were
               | left to fend for themselves --so even though they had
               | more freedom, they had less certainty in today and
               | tomorrow. Like a 13 year old suddenly becoming an orphan.
        
         | xixixao wrote:
         | I already grew up in a middle class family, but I had a fellow
         | intern at FB whose father used to smuggle furs into Soviet
         | Russia. I really loved that juxtaposition. Nothing new under
         | the sun, but knowing him personally it hit me more :)
        
           | rixed wrote:
           | I once (>20 years ago) had luch with our sales representative
           | in ... was it Malaysia or the Philippines? In his custom made
           | blue suit, he told me in perfect Oxford English how his grand
           | father had to kill several fighters from enemy villages in
           | order to be allowed to marry his grand mother...
           | 
           | I don't know how exagerated that was, but yes sometimes
           | things go fast:)
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | I think that's the beauty of storytelling--it turns 'nothing
           | new under the sun' into something deeply personal and hit us
           | differently.Thank you for sharing that connection, it makes
           | the world feel a lot smaller.
        
         | martin-t wrote:
         | While I absolutely agree that in the current state of things
         | most western people are so well off they can't even imagine
         | what it means to actually be oppressed and suffer, I can't help
         | but notice that the current state of things can quickly change
         | and that we're in a constant yet barely visible struggle with
         | forces that want to bring about just that kind of oppression
         | here and that we're slowly losing it.
         | 
         | You might think this is about the rise of fascism[0] in the US,
         | Chat Control in the EU, the failure of revolution in Belarus
         | and Turkey, censorship in the UK, martial law in South Korea,
         | etc. But it's about all of those.
         | 
         | I am reminded that the only real power comes from violence
         | (performed or threatened) and that we keep building cool stuff
         | because we get paid a lot, yet we don't own the product of our
         | work and it is increasingly being used against us. We don't
         | have guns to our heads yet but the goal of AI is to remove what
         | little bargaining power we have by making us economically
         | redundant.
         | 
         | At every point in history, oppressing a group of people
         | required controlling another (smaller but better armed) group
         | of people willing to perform the oppression. And for the first
         | time in history, "thanks" to AI and robotics, this requirement
         | will be lifted.
         | 
         | [0]: https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-
         | the-...
        
           | expedition32 wrote:
           | The Netherlands in 2025 is a decadent country were everyone
           | can do whatever the hell they want.
           | 
           | But a gay man growing up in the 1950s in a rural village was
           | plenty oppressed. It's actually quite fascinating how in the
           | 1960s/70s we had a Cultural Revolution of our own that ended
           | a thousand years of religious oppression! And we didn't even
           | have a Mao.
           | 
           | But never forget we are always one bad week away from sliding
           | backwards.
        
           | mlindner wrote:
           | Whenever people start talking about things called "the rise
           | of fascism in the US" as if its a foregone fact rather than a
           | highly fringe opinion, it's unfortunately rather easy to
           | assume that the person doesn't have a good ability to tell
           | fact from "story they heard online from a web post".
           | 
           | It's fine if you want to argue that there is a rise in
           | fascism in the US, but you need to actually pose that
           | argument, not just talk about it as if its true and that
           | everyone agrees with you.
           | 
           | Also, there is not currently any martial law in South Korea.
           | That was a brief event that lasted a matter of hours from
           | when it was announced and when it was repealed. It's an open
           | question if any actions were actually performed under the
           | guises of it.
        
             | jeremyjh wrote:
             | The POTUS is calling for his political enemies to be
             | executed. He has sent soldiers - illegally - into "Democrat
             | cities". He is using what is left of the DOJ to prosecute
             | political enemies. The dismissal rate in the DC circuit is
             | at 20% due to all the baseless vindictive prosecutions. The
             | FCC is cancelling shows critical of the POTUS. SCOTUS is
             | allowing racial profiling. ICE has committed a half dozen
             | high profile cases of political violence against protestors
             | - several in direct violation of a federal judges orders.
             | 
             | But yes, you are its hysterical fringe voices calling this
             | the "rise of fascism in the US".
        
             | martin-t wrote:
             | There's a web post and a web post.
             | 
             | The source I linked is written by a historian[0] - a guy
             | who actually studied how this kind of stuff happens. You'll
             | also notice that his post uses a fairly high standard of
             | proof - using 2 different definitions of fascism and using
             | only the wannabe-dictator's own statements to show he
             | satisfies all points.
             | 
             | There's also a YouTube video and a YouTube video. Here's an
             | actual lawyer talking about the legality of the proto-
             | dictator's actions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hybL-
             | GJov7M
             | 
             | [0]: https://acoup.blog/about-the-pedant/
        
             | Hikikomori wrote:
             | https://whatisfascism.org/docs/Warning_Signs_of_Fascism.pdf
             | 
             | Is any of the boxes not checked?
        
           | rixed wrote:
           | > I am reminded that the only real power comes from violence
           | 
           | Rather from numbers in my opinion. "Divide and conquer", or
           | its modern equivalent "confuse and manipulate", is what makes
           | violence effective. It is always striking to compare how much
           | people are similar, even in our divided society, versus how
           | much dissimilar they think they are. I'm used to help
           | organize long boat trips with all kind of people from various
           | backgrounds, and it's funny to watch.
           | 
           | In the past it was easy to convince people that "the other"
           | was strange and dangerous, due to physical distance. Today we
           | achieve the same with social media.
        
             | martin-t wrote:
             | > Rather from numbers in my opinion.
             | 
             | Because for now more people means more violence. If you
             | control more people, you control more potential violence.
             | So if your enemy controls more people, you need to either
             | amass more people in your cause or divide the enemy's
             | cause.
             | 
             | And there are limits to how many people you can control.
             | Even in the past, they were surprisingly large to my
             | liking. Helot slaves to their Spartan owners were 7:1 at
             | some point apparently. Soldiers in WW1 had riles and
             | bayonets, yet one guy with a revolver could send dozens of
             | them to their deaths. But still, it was impossible to
             | censor communication among ordinary people and prominent
             | enemies of the regime required constant supervision by
             | another person. Digging up dirt or evidence could take
             | months of work. Now so much communication is online,
             | detecting dissent can be automated to a large extent.
             | There's a limit to how many people can be in prison without
             | starving and without the state collapsing by how many
             | people need to perform useful work and how many people you
             | need to guard them.
             | 
             | But I bet soon we'll see a new dystopian nightmare where
             | prisoners are watched by automated systems 24/7, increasing
             | the prisoner to guard ratio. And finally, look at Ukraine.
             | Artillery was the primary cause of casualties in the past
             | century of wars and you needed people to transport heavy
             | shells, load and fire them. Apparently 1 ton of explosives
             | per death. Now it's drones, which can be mass produced
             | largely automatically and controlled automatically. And
             | they are so precise you could use them to target
             | individuals in crowds.
        
           | HellDunkel wrote:
           | What is this ,,Chat Control in the EU" ?
        
             | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
             | https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/12/after-years-
             | controvers...
        
           | NonHyloMorph wrote:
           | I have come to that conclusion as well. Curious if there is
           | some political or cultural theorisation efforts out there on
           | this?
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | It might be, but it's confidential, so I think it's hard to
             | do such things in China.
        
       | didntknowyou wrote:
       | nice read. interesting experience and great writing. looking
       | forward to the next part.
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Thank you! I will post soon.
        
       | zizon wrote:
       | > I was born in 1991, thirty years after China's first atomic
       | bomb explosion, and right around the time of the dissolution of
       | the Soviet Union.
       | 
       | I smell cooked
        
       | thatsadude wrote:
       | Nice read!
        
       | swe_dima wrote:
       | My grandfather, who is a nuclear scientist, and my mom also come
       | from a small closed-off city in Siberia (Russia).
       | 
       | Visiting my grandparents I remember we had to go through a sort
       | of border control to get there.
       | 
       | My mom told stories of how the government would change the
       | asphalt every year in that city to cover the nuclear dust.
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Wow, thank you so much for sharing this. It's fascinating and
         | deeply moving to see how similar our childhood memories are,
         | despite being thousands of miles apart.
        
       | NotGMan wrote:
       | >> Witnessing such scorched-earth containment makes the modern
       | definition of nuclear power as the 'cleanest energy' completely
       | incomprehensible to me.
       | 
       | It's called bad governing. To connect nuclear "not clean" with
       | such bad governing is bit much.
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | You make a fair point, and from a purely technical or policy
         | perspective, I agree that bad governance shouldn't be conflated
         | with the potential of nuclear technology itself.
         | 
         | However, as a writer, I'm describing the subjective reality of
         | growing up in that environment. When you see 'scorched-earth'
         | measures taken to manage a city, it shapes your visceral
         | perception of that power, regardless of the science behind it.
         | My goal isn't to debate nuclear policy, but to capture how that
         | specific 'bad governing' colored the way we, as residents,
         | perceived the very energy that defined our lives.
        
         | colinb wrote:
         | This argument that nuclear power generation is clean if you
         | ignore the times when it isn't seems a bit no-true-Scotsman to
         | me. It's a thing I've changed my mind about more than once in
         | the past. What sways my thinking now is:
         | 
         | - most nuclear power does indeed seem to be well run with
         | minimal pollution. - when it goes wrong, the consequences are
         | awful and long-lived (I can, off the top of my head, name two
         | sites that are dangerous decades after they were polluted. I
         | suspect there are others that don't have the same cultural
         | resonance for me. - the alternatives in terms of renewables and
         | storage are improving seemingly from one day to the next.
         | 
         | The long term consequences, and human frailty in the face of a
         | requirement for total and eternal vigilance convince me that
         | the risk outweighs the reward. Where nuclear power once seemed
         | [to me. I appreciated that some people have always been anti-
         | nuke] like the least bad option compared with e.g. coal, now
         | there are better ways to make our lives work.
         | 
         | If the endless 50-years-in-the-future ever actually expires and
         | we get practical fusion power, it'll be interesting to see how
         | this changes my thinking. Perhaps that will will have fewer
         | toxic side effects when it goes wrong.
        
           | sgjohnson wrote:
           | > This argument that nuclear power generation is clean if you
           | ignore the times when it isn't seems a bit no-true-Scotsman
           | to me.
           | 
           | The same can be said about wind and solar. Nothing about
           | producing the rare earths required is clean.
           | 
           | Even if we include Chernobyl, nuclear is still by far the
           | safest source of energy when looking at deaths per TWh
           | generated.
           | 
           | > I can, off the top of my head, name two sites that are
           | dangerous decades after they were polluted
           | 
           | Two? I can only count one. Fukushima is almost perfectly safe
           | today, although exclusion zones still exist.
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | If I set up a wind generator and then leave it with no
             | maintenance it's a risk to an area a little bit bigger than
             | its maximum height. If I leave a nuclear reactor unattended
             | it's a risk to hundreds of thousands of square miles.
        
         | subscribed wrote:
         | Precisely.
         | 
         | Especially when comparing the number of deaths(1) from then-
         | China's favourite energy source or simply Uranium's
         | efficiency(2) and the fact we know now how to recycle most of
         | the waste(3)
         | 
         | Sure, I prefer the solar too, but I agree the governance is the
         | bigger problem in the example from the story.
         | 
         | (1) https://www.researchgate.net/figure/rates-for-each-energy-
         | so... and https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2023/10/new-nuclear-
         | power-is-p...
         | 
         | (2) https://xkcd.com/1162/
         | 
         | (3) https://whatisnuclear.com/recycling.html and
         | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S036054421...
        
         | thisislife2 wrote:
         | I don't know about "bad governing". It sounds more like a
         | rigorous containment policy when nuclear technology was at its
         | infancy in China. ( _Regulations are written in the blood of
         | your predecessors_ -
         | https://old.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/ud3lt4/lpt_osh...
         | ). It is also about preventing accident leakage of information
         | and preserving secrecy. For e.g. In the 1970s, India learnt
         | that Pakistan was working to create a nuclear weapon when
         | Indian agents in Pakistan collected hair samples of Pakistan's
         | nuclear scientist, from a barber shop where they got their hair
         | cut - traces of plutonium radiation were found in the hair
         | samples, and Pakistan's nuclear weapons program got exposed.
        
           | FarmerPotato wrote:
           | The LLM flipped from "scorched earth" to " bad governing" as
           | the sofa faded from its context window.
           | 
           | The metaphor says maybe "extreme cleanliness is like war",
           | second pass war is bad governing...
           | 
           | Don't engage with it.
           | 
           | At this point, you're arguing with an LLM, not a coherent
           | storyteller. The events your question refers to have been
           | downgraded in the context window.
           | 
           | It's like the game of twenty questions where the LLM doesn't
           | have a persistent secret object, it's just simulating
           | consistency.
        
       | jpgvm wrote:
       | You are a great writer. Would love to hear what came next and
       | eventually how you found your way to HN. :)
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Thank you so much! That means a lot to me.I'll be posting Part
         | 2 very soon on my Substack to continue the story. Hope to see
         | you there!"
        
       | electroglyph wrote:
       | those jerks put a zoo in the desert!? =(
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Yes, next part I will talk about the zoo.I will post on Monday.
        
       | martin-t wrote:
       | > Our license plates started with "Gan-A," the same as the
       | provincial capital. We laughed at people from other cities like
       | Jiayuguan ("Gan-B") or Jiuquan ("Gan-F"). Even as kids, we joked,
       | "We're still number one." Because our grandparents were the
       | country's elite and we lived in the "Nuclear City," I always felt
       | like I was living at the center of the world.
       | 
       | Am I reading too much into this or does China have a culture of
       | competition which involves mocking those you deem below you even
       | for the most shallow reasons?
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | That's a very observant question. I wouldn't say it's a
         | universal Chinese culture of competition, but rather a
         | reflection of the naive, bubble-like pride we had as children
         | in that specific environment.
         | 
         | We genuinely believed we were special because of the city's
         | status, even if that pride was based on something as shallow as
         | a license plate. It was our way of making sense of our 'elite'
         | isolation. The irony is that this unrealistic sense of
         | superiority made the eventual loss of our home even more
         | disorienting. When the world you thought was the 'center'
         | disappears, you're left feeling completely lost.
        
         | embedding-shape wrote:
         | Mocking those below you is almost a global phenomena that
         | humans seems to have been doing almost forever, and still do,
         | almost everywhere on the planet. Doesn't really strike me as
         | something uniquely Chinese by any margins.
        
           | Aboutplants wrote:
           | You can even take it a step farther because animals display
           | the same type of behavior
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | In my school in Europe we had 4 classes for each grade. A, B, C
         | and D. Guess who felt they were better than everybody else?
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Who?
        
             | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
             | What comes before A?
        
           | brabel wrote:
           | Same in Brazil, but I think everyone thought their classes
           | were superior regardless of their letter! Obviously B is the
           | best btw ;)
        
           | eden-u4 wrote:
           | mine too, but none was such a dick. also, anything related to
           | school (particularly at a young age), is not viewed as
           | something to boast of (at least in my experience in italy,
           | serbia and portugal).
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | Do you really not think this happens outside China?
         | 
         | I've lived in the US and Australia. Both have the exact same
         | phenomenon.
        
         | throw4r3w45 wrote:
         | You are reading too much into this.
         | 
         | It would be like someone writing an article about growing up in
         | a town with a winning sports team, joking with others about
         | those living in towns with losing sports teams.
         | 
         | Imagine someone reading that and commenting, "...am I reading
         | too much into this or does America have a culture of
         | competition which involves mocking those you deem below you
         | even for the most shallow reasons?"
        
       | fcpguru wrote:
       | Amazing, related story. I had a friend that always talked about
       | growning up in 418 Pennsylvania. It began as a company town for a
       | ceramics manufacturer in the 1920s. The factory specialized in
       | heat resistant vessels. You know like kettles, pitchers,
       | industrial teapots. Each stamped each with a model number tied to
       | production lines.
       | 
       | Line 418 was the most profitable. When the post office opened,
       | the clerk assumed "418" was the town name, not the factory line
       | number. By the time anyone noticed, mail was flowing, checks were
       | signed, and no one wanted to correct the federal government. The
       | factory closed in the 1950s. The town shrank but remained oddly
       | proud of its name. Residents leaned into it without explaining
       | it.
        
         | onionisafruit wrote:
         | I grew up in 200 Pennsylvania. It was ok.
        
           | fcpguru wrote:
           | oh i agree, an OK town. But man 406 PA, was just not
           | acceptable.
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | Named after the original town in Oklahoma, I presume?
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | This is an incredible story! Thank you for sharing the legend
         | of '418'.
         | 
         | It's fascinating how industrial logic can accidentally become a
         | place's identity, whether it's a production line in
         | Pennsylvania or a secret code in the Gobi Desert. The fact that
         | residents remained 'oddly proud' of a name that was essentially
         | a clerical error resonates deeply with me.
         | 
         | In 404, our pride was tied to a secret mission; in 418, it was
         | tied to a factory's success. Both show how humans can find a
         | sense of home and belonging in the most 'functional' or even
         | 'accidental' labels. This is exactly the kind of connection I
         | hoped this post would spark.
        
           | amazingman wrote:
           | Unfortunately the comment you're responding to is a joke.
           | HTTP status code 418 is a joke response: "I'm a teapot".
        
           | FarmerPotato wrote:
           | That's a lot of LLM replies, and counting.
        
             | shimman wrote:
             | Yeah I was willing to suspend disbelief but that comment
             | kinda did it there.
        
               | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
               | My sincere apologies to everyone here. You caught me red-
               | handed, and I feel terrible about it.
               | 
               | I promise that the story of 404 is my own, lived
               | experience. Just as the whole article, they are translate
               | by LLM.
        
               | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
               | I thought 418 was something similar to 404, and made a
               | stupid joke. Sorry again.
        
         | Keyframe wrote:
         | oddly enough, your post is the only mention and the source of
         | such a town.
         | 
         | edit: 418.. I've been had.
        
         | tacone wrote:
         | Quite funny coincidence with 418 HTTP status code.
        
         | frogpelt wrote:
         | FYI, 418 is the HTTP status code that means the server is a
         | teapot.
        
           | drdeca wrote:
           | Technically a HTTCPCP status code I think?
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | Atlanta is frequently referred to as "the 404" due to it being
         | one of our area codes for calling.
         | 
         | April 4th is an informal city holiday, "404 day".
         | 
         | Lots of artists and companies make "404" branded stuff, and you
         | generally see the number all over the city:
         | 
         | https://mondaynightbrewing.com/beer/404-atlanta-lager/
         | 
         | https://sneakernews.com/2025/03/21/adidas-superstar-404-day-...
         | 
         | https://x.com/kodakk6000/status/1775929898390978721
        
           | cman1444 wrote:
           | Doesn't this happen for lots of area codes? 305 for Miami in
           | particular as Mr. Pitbull likes to remind us.
        
             | ZeWaka wrote:
             | Yep. 808 is synonymous with Hawaii, since the whole state
             | uses just that area code.
        
               | triyambakam wrote:
               | "808 all day" as an example
        
           | Aboutplants wrote:
           | 412 is the area code for Pittsburgh and is all over the place
           | with branding and slogans. Area codes in general are a common
           | signifier within communities and the population. It's always
           | neat to see locals rep their area codes as advertisement or
           | branding, I like it
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | Anachronistic though, as area codes don't really mean
             | anything anymore in the era of mobile phones.
        
         | Aboutplants wrote:
         | Eighty Four, Pennsylvania is home to headquarters of 84 Lumber.
         | 
         | The name origination is however much less interesting but still
         | entertaining
         | 
         | "Eighty Four was originally named Smithville. Due to postal
         | confusion with another town of the same name, its name was
         | changed to "Eighty Four" on July 28, 1884. The origin of the
         | name is uncertain. It has been suggested that the town was
         | named in honor of Grover Cleveland's 1884 election as President
         | of the United States, but that occurred after the town was
         | named. Another possibility is the town's mile marker on the
         | Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. Another is that the town was named
         | after the year the town's post office was built, by a
         | postmaster who "didn't have a whole lot of imagination."
        
         | 0_____0 wrote:
         | You had me there!! But I've been to a place called "Pie Town"
         | NM which got its name in a similar way, so I figured it could
         | have been true!
        
           | bsagdiyev wrote:
           | There's also Truth or Consequences, NM named after a game
           | show (I believe?)
        
       | vjvjvjvjghv wrote:
       | On my trip back from china this week I watched a Chinese movie
       | about their nuclear bomb project. Basically the equivalent of
       | Oppenheimer. Quite interesting movie and now I am reading this
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Yes, it's really like the small town in Oppenheimer.
        
         | lantastic wrote:
         | Sounds interesting. What's the title?
        
           | vjvjvjvjghv wrote:
           | Roaring Across the Horizon
        
       | Keyframe wrote:
       | What's the deal with AI here in the comments?
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | You caught me! Yes, I am using AI to assist with the
         | translation.
         | 
         | My IELTS score is 7.5, but my writing band is 6.0.
         | 
         | I write my thoughts and comments in Chinese first and then use
         | AI to translate them. The entire article was also translated
         | from my original Chinese manuscript.
        
           | jeremyjh wrote:
           | The reply to the 418 joke is clearly generated, not just
           | translated.
        
             | mgraczyk wrote:
             | It doesn't sound generated to me
        
             | the_af wrote:
             | The comment with "you touched on an interesting and
             | profound point" is also not a translation of anything a
             | human would write, but AI slop/filler.
        
               | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
               | Yes it is, really sorry for it. I don't know how to
               | delete it.
        
           | Keyframe wrote:
           | Right, you do what you think is best. I'm in no position to
           | tell you what to do. Having said that, it comes off as
           | robotic and impersonal. Personally, I'd rather read you
           | trying to write with your own words what you wanted to write.
           | That is, if you're not AI yourself which there are high
           | chances of and I'm leaning on that theory.
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | Que Shi ,Wo Zi Ji Ye Fei Chang Tao Yan AIWei De Wen Zi ,Hen
             | Xi Wang Wo De Ying Wen Neng He Zhong Wen Yi Yang Hao . Zhi
             | Shi Ke Neng Huan Yao Hao Ji Nian Shi Jian Ba .
        
           | hexbin010 wrote:
           | You're not just translating though
        
           | thrdbndndn wrote:
           | I would like to read the original Chinese version as a native
           | speaker. Is there any chance you post that (the article
           | itself) too?
        
             | decimalenough wrote:
             | https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/22190111
        
               | thrdbndndn wrote:
               | Wow, thanks. I vaguely remembered reading something about
               | this years ago on Zhihu, and I didn't even realize it was
               | the same article!
        
           | themantalope wrote:
           | Ni Ke Yi Ba Zhong Wen Ban Fa Dao Wang Shang Ba
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/22190111 Zhe Li Shi Yuan Ban
             | De ,Wo Shao Wei Xiu Gai Liao Yi Xie Bu Fen .
        
           | Igrom wrote:
           | Xie Xie Ni De Wen Zhang ,Tai You Yi Si Liao . Zhe Yao Shen Mi
           | De Gu Shi Rong Yi Xi Yin Ren ,Mo Yi Li Mian Fan Liao Shao Xu
           | Yu Fa Shang De Cuo Wu ,Huan Hui You Ren Jie Yi Ma ?Ren Gong
           | Zhi Neng Yong Qi Lai Que Ke Neng Zheng Shi Yu Yuan Wei ,Rang
           | Da Jia Zhi Yi Ni Dui Gu Shi Jia Yi Guo Kua Zhang Huo Bian Zao
           | . Wo Jian Yi ,Di Er Bu Bu Yong Ji Qi Fan Yi ,Shou Dong Fan Yi
           | Fan Yi Ba . Hui Fu Ren Xiao Xi ,Zi Ji Xie Ye Geng Hao .
           | 
           | Thank you very much for the article, it was super
           | interesting. The mystery in the story draws people in, and
           | people surely won't mind a couple of grammatical mistakes.
           | But you have to watch out: the use of AI makes it easy for
           | people to suspect that the story might've been embellished.
           | For the second part, it might be better to try translating it
           | manually; the same goes for writing replies.
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | Yes, I will try my best.Thank you.
        
               | lanyard-textile wrote:
               | Your best is more than good enough.
               | 
               | Thank you for sharing your story. It makes the world a
               | better place.
        
           | xena wrote:
           | I'd rather read something in "bad English" than laundered
           | through generative artificial intelligence tools.
        
             | o10449366 wrote:
             | Highly doubt this. Have you read a translated book? Are you
             | looking for literal translations or a translation from
             | someone who's an expert in both languages and makes
             | subjective adjustments based on their experience?
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | No, I agree with the other commenter. I'd rather read
               | broken English than the fake tone AI injects on
               | everything (and the suspicion of fabrications, too).
        
               | pbalau wrote:
               | In my new domain, photography, the most common "advice"
               | for beginners is to learn the exposure triangle, shoot
               | manual and get everything done in camera. This kind of
               | advice comes from beginners, quite close to take a fall
               | from the Dunning-Kruger scale. I'm working towards a
               | distinction from one of the most respected photography
               | organizations in the world and nobody involved with it
               | that gave me guidance ever asked how I took the images.
               | 
               | Maybe or, most likely this is the same for writing: there
               | are people that think correct grammar and punctuation and
               | no help on achieving this, means writing.
        
           | Aboutplants wrote:
           | Tip, I'd rather read slightly bad grammar due to simple
           | translation than AI assisted interpretation of what you are
           | wanting to say.call me old fashioned I guess
        
             | o10449366 wrote:
             | Why? Would a incorrect but literal translation be closer or
             | further from what the author is trying to communicate?
             | 
             | I've been seeing this take on HN a lot recently, but when
             | it comes to translation current AI is far, far superior to
             | what we had previously with Google Translate, etc.
             | 
             | If the substack was written in broken English there's no
             | way it would even be appearing on the front page here, even
             | less so if it was written in Chinese.
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | An incorrect but more authentic translation would seem
               | more real, like an human earnestly trying to tell a
               | story. We would accept the imperfections and have a
               | subjective feeling of more authenticity.
               | 
               | Of course, even this can be faked, sadly.
        
               | o10449366 wrote:
               | When the translation differs so much from what the author
               | is trying to say in their native language, it loses its
               | earnestness.
               | 
               | That's why translation is a job in the first place and
               | you don't see publishers running whole books through
               | Google translate. No one, least the authors, would accept
               | that.
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | We don't know how much the imperfect translation would
               | differ from the author's intent, but we would sure try to
               | meet him halfway. Nobody would criticize his broken
               | English.
               | 
               | Contrast this with the faux polite, irritating tone of
               | the AI, complete with fabrications and phrases the author
               | didn't even intend to write.
               | 
               | Authenticity has value. AI speech is anything but
               | authentic.
        
               | o10449366 wrote:
               | I mean, you're making assumptions about the author's
               | intent going one way, but not the other. What if the
               | polite tone is what they intended? And how do you know
               | they didn't review the output for phrasing and
               | fabrications?
               | 
               | The author acknowledged they used AI to translate. Is the
               | translation they decided to publish among the given tools
               | they had available to them not by definition the most
               | authentic and intentional piece that exists?
               | 
               | All of this aside, how do you think tools like Google
               | Translate even work? Language isn't a lookup table with a
               | 1:1 mapping. Even these other translation tools that are
               | being suggested still incorporate AI. Should the author
               | manually look up words in dictionaries and translate word
               | by word, when dictionaries themselves are notoriously
               | politicized and policed, too?
        
           | wizzwizz4 wrote:
           | Please use actual machine translation systems, not generative
           | AI.
        
             | jiggawatts wrote:
             | That's some grade A nonsense.
             | 
             | The core algorithm behind modern generative AI was
             | developed specifically for translation, the task which
             | arguably these chatbots are the most suited! It's the task
             | that they're far the best at, both relative to older
             | translation algorithms (which were also AI), and relative
             | to their capabilities other tasks that they're being put
             | to. These LLMs are "just" text-to-text transformers! That's
             | where the name comes from!
             | 
             | "Stop using the best electric power tool, please use the
             | outdated steam powered tool." is what you're saying right
             | now.
             | 
             | You're not even asking for something to be "hand crafted",
             | you're just being a luddite.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | Heh, it's amazing how people have already forgotten
               | exactly how terrible older ML translation was.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | The "terribleness" is a feature. It means I can be
               | confident that the meaning of fluent output corresponds
               | to the meaning of the input: I'm capable of hand-
               | translating any passages the computer can't, but I'm
               | _not_ capable of proof-reading all the translations to
               | spot fluent confabulations.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | > _The core algorithm behind modern generative AI was
               | developed specifically for translation_
               | 
               | Indeed! And yet, generative AI systems wire it up as a
               | lossy compression / predictive text model, which
               | discreetly confabulates what it doesn't understand. Why
               | not use a transformer-based model architecture actually
               | designed for translation? I'd much rather the model take
               | a best-guess (which might be useful, or might be
               | nonsense, but will at least be _conspicuous_ nonsense)
               | than substitute a different (less-obviously nonsense)
               | meaning entirely.
               | 
               | Bonus: purpose-built translation models are much smaller,
               | can tractably be run on a CPU, and (since they require
               | less data) can be built from corpora whose authors
               | consented to this use. There's no compelling reason to
               | throw an LLM at the problem, introducing multiple ethical
               | issues and generally pissing off your audience, for a
               | worse result.
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | Zhe Yang Que Shi Ke Yi Bi Mian AIWei Er ,Dan Shi Ke Neng
             | Yue Du Qi Lai Hui Ti Yan Hen Chai ,Wo Zui Zao Jiu Shi Yong
             | machine translationFan Yi ,Hen Duo Bu Fen Bian De Fei Chang
             | wordy,Tong Shi Ling Ren Fei Jie .
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | What models are you using? I'm using whatever's built
               | into Firefox 140.6.0esr (some Bergamot derivative, iirc),
               | which gives me:
               | 
               | > This can avoid the taste of AI, but it may be very bad
               | to read, I first used machine translation translation,
               | many parts become very wordy, and at the same time
               | puzzling.
               | 
               | Perfectly clear and comprehensible. It's not fluent
               | English, there are comma splices everywhere, and it
               | translated "machine translationFan Yi " as "machine
               | translation translation", but _I_ understand it - and I
               | 'm confident it's close to what you actually meant to
               | say. I can spot-check with my Chinese-to-English
               | dictionary, and it seems like a slightly-better-than-
               | literal translation. My understanding of your comment:
               | 
               | > This can avoid the smell of AI, but it may be a
               | struggle to read. I initially used a dedicated machine
               | translation system, but many parts became verbose (/ very
               | wordy) and incomprehensible.
               | 
               | Generative models don't solve the Ling Ren Fei Jie
               | problem: they just paper over it. If a machine
               | translation is incomprehensible, that means the model
               | _did not understand_ what you were saying. Generative
               | models are still transformer models: they 're not going
               | to magically have greater powers of comprehension than
               | the dedicated translation model does. But they _are_
               | trained and fine-tuned to _pretend_ that they know what
               | they 're talking about. Is it better for information to
               | be _conspicuously_ lost in translation, or _silently_
               | lost in translation?
               | 
               | Please, be willing to write in your native language, with
               | your own words, and then provide us with either the
               | original text, or a _faithful_ translation of those
               | words. Do you really want future historians to have to
               | figure out which parts of this you wrote yourself, and
               | which parts were invented by the AI model? I suspect that
               | is not the reason you wrote this.
        
           | pyuser583 wrote:
           | In the technology industry, many people are not native
           | speakers.
           | 
           | Low-level English is normal and accepted.
           | 
           | On the job, I never speak above the level of a 13-year-old.
           | 
           | AI generated English is hated.
           | 
           | Consider using English, not software translation.
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | I hate that too, but my english writing is not good enough
             | to write a long article, I edited this many times, I
             | thought it's acceptable.Yes, I will try my best to learn
             | english writing.
        
           | deadbabe wrote:
           | Write your comments in Chinese, we will use our own
           | translation.
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | Sounds good.Wo Hui Shi Zhao Yong Zhong Wen Hui Fu ,Zhi Shi
             | Bu Zhi Dao Zai HNShang Mian Zhe Yang Jie Shou Du Gao Yao ?
        
       | selfawareMammal wrote:
       | What are the coordinates? Been looking for it around 100km west
       | of jiayuguan but I can't seem to get it right
        
         | yorwba wrote:
         | Chinese Wikipedia
         | https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%94%98%E8%82%83%E7%9F%BF%E5...
         | has the coordinates. It's a lot closer to Yu Men  than to Jia
         | Yu Guan .
        
           | marcellus23 wrote:
           | Edit: nevermind
           | 
           | I don't know if those coordinates are correct. They seem to
           | be the exact coordinates of Jiayuguan City [0], but then the
           | article also says that the 404 site is located "100 km west
           | of Jiayuguan City," with living areas later relocated to
           | Jiayuguan. So I think the article authors just put the
           | Jiayuguan coords there.
           | 
           | 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiayuguan_City
        
             | yorwba wrote:
             | 40deg10'49''N 97deg16'36''E is not exactly 39deg46'24''N
             | 98deg17'18''E. Did you maybe copy the wrong coordinates?
             | Anyways, have an OpenStreetMap link
             | https://www.openstreetmap.org/?#map=11/40.1243/97.3375
        
               | marcellus23 wrote:
               | You're right, I think my confusion was that they're both
               | labeled Kiayukwan in Apple Maps.
        
         | Eduard wrote:
         | DMS: 40deg 10' 48.67'' N, 97deg 16' 36.49'' E
         | 
         | Decimal: 40.180185, 97.276804
         | 
         | Geo URI: geo:40.180185,97.276804
         | 
         | https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?language=en&params...
        
       | frozenseven wrote:
       | More info about similar places:
       | 
       | - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_city
       | 
       | - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_townlet
        
       | ElijahLynn wrote:
       | "My biggest dream in kindergarten was to be a big brother. I
       | wanted to care for a younger sibling. But under the One-Child
       | Policy, if my mother had another child, she and my dad would lose
       | their jobs. She had to follow the rules and terminate a
       | pregnancy. My wish was impossible."
        
       | ElijahLynn wrote:
       | "Once, a soldier entered the residential area after coming into
       | contact with radioactive material. His hands turned a necrotic
       | black, like charred wood. The authorities didn't just isolate
       | him; they traced his entire trajectory and burned every single
       | item he had touched. A friend of my father lost his entire sofa
       | because of this. Witnessing such scorched-earth containment makes
       | the modern definition of nuclear power as the 'cleanest energy'
       | completely incomprehensible to me."
        
       | tolerance wrote:
       | I'm curious how HN's general warmth toward self promotion is
       | going to be affected by the steady proliferation of AI-assisted
       | content.
        
         | roncesvalles wrote:
         | There is nothing intrinsically wrong about using AI to help
         | convey your ideas, as long as the ideas being conveyed are 100%
         | genuinely yours. Because then it just becomes a choice of
         | _style_ , and a non-native speaker may not have a better choice
         | of style than "LLMese".
         | 
         | It's like writing something with a commodity Bic ballpoint vs a
         | fancy fountain pen with expensive ink. The style of the prose
         | itself is not the valuable artifact, at least not here (it may
         | be in certain places e.g. poems and novels), unless you think
         | well-written/well-spoken people are automatically more
         | veritable or intelligent, which is just as shallow as lookism.
         | 
         | The witch-hunt style comments where people accuse an author of
         | using LLMs as if it's some big gotcha that discredits
         | everything they said need to stop. It only derails the
         | discussion.
        
           | tolerance wrote:
           | > It's like writing something with a commodity Bic ballpoint
           | vs a fancy fountain pen with expensive ink. The style of the
           | prose itself is not the valuable artifact, at least not here
           | (it may be in certain places e.g. poems and novels), unless
           | you think well-written/well-spoken people are automatically
           | more veritable or intelligent, which is just as shallow as
           | lookism.
           | 
           | I think this simplifies the entire discipline of literary
           | criticism and I suppose every other related science. You can
           | _write_ the same prose with both the Bic and the fountain
           | pen; the quality of pen only affects the _material_ quality
           | of the writing--the ink--but not the style (rhetoric?
           | eloquence?) of the writing (i.e., the contents of language,
           | how it's conveyed, etc.). We aren't arguing whether it's
           | appropriate to depreciate writing generated by an LLM to
           | using speech-to-text as opposed to using a keyboard.
           | 
           | The style of the prose _does_ contribute to the value of the
           | artifact and speaks to the repute of the reader in addition.
           | Readers care about what you say and how you say it too.
           | 
           | Nonetheless I as well as others have good reason to
           | interrogate the intrinsic value of LLM-assisted writing
           | especially when it refers to writing like the one being
           | discussed which I reckon qualifies as a part of the "literary
           | non-fiction" genre. So it's apt that we criticize this
           | writing on those grounds. Many here have even said that they
           | would prefer the 100% genuinely-styled version of the
           | author's experience which is apparently only 1.5 points lower
           | than whatever their verbal acumen is. [1] Which I imagine
           | places them around the rank of your average American...and I
           | assume so with charity toward the Americans.
           | 
           | While I think some LLM accusations are lazily applied I think
           | communities such as this one benefit from these discussions
           | when waged critically. Especially when status and social
           | capital are of implicit interest.
           | 
           | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46411214
        
       | icemelt8 wrote:
       | The most shocking thing in this article is learning about the
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine I didn't know
       | about it, what an unnecessary loss of life in a modern era.
        
       | aduwah wrote:
       | Thank you for sharing your story. Cannot wait for the next part
        
       | moorkh wrote:
       | This was a great read. Can't wait for the next installment. Where
       | do you live now?
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Thank you! I live in Toronto right now.
        
       | arjie wrote:
       | Incredible account. I love these. If you posted translation would
       | you mind posting the original as well? Great story.
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Thank you!Here is the original link
         | https://news.qq.com/rain/a/20240110A03FKJ00
        
       | edwardtay wrote:
       | This is a fascinating glimpse into a world most people will never
       | experience. A few questions if you're open to sharing:
       | 
       | 1. How did the classification level affect everyday social
       | interactions? Were there topics that were implicitly off-limits
       | even within the city among residents?
       | 
       | 2. You mentioned the zoo in the middle of the desert - what drove
       | that decision? Was it purely for morale/quality of life, or were
       | there other factors?
       | 
       | 3. Looking back now with perspective, how do you think growing up
       | in such a unique environment shaped your worldview compared to
       | peers who grew up in "normal" Chinese cities?
       | 
       | Also really interested in hearing about the technical side if
       | you're comfortable sharing - what was the general sentiment among
       | the scientists and engineers about their work? Did they talk
       | about it as "nation-building" or was it more pragmatic?
       | 
       | Looking forward to Part 2!
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Hen Duo Ren Jian Yi Wo Bu Yao Yong AIFan Yi ,Suo Yi Wo Yong
         | Zhong Wen Hui Da ,Xin Ku Da Jia Yong Yi Xia Fan Yi Gong Neng .
         | 1.Han Qu Li Ji Hu Suo You Ren Ren Shi Suo You Ren ,Wo Ba Ma Fan
         | Zhuo Shang De Hua Ti Jiu Shi Tong Shi Ba Gua . Zhe Yang De Hua
         | Zheng Ge She Hui Fen Wei Qi Shi You Dian Ya Yi ,Zhi Yao Ni Zuo
         | Liao Ren He Chu Ge De Shi ,Hen Kuai Suo You Ren Du Hui Zhi Dao
         | .  2.Wo Ye Jue De Jian Yi Ge Dong Wu Yuan Jian Zhi Shi Feng
         | Liao ,Wen Zhang Di Er Bu Fen You Ti Dao Zhe Ge . Wo Da Bo Shi
         | Fu Ze Tiao Xuan Dong Wu De Ren ,Cong Quan Guo Ge Di Yun Dong Wu
         | Guo Qu . Ke Neng Wei Hu Cheng Ben Tai Gao Ba ,Dong Wu Yuan Li
         | De Kong Que Man Man Mei Liao ,Bian Cheng Zhen Zhu Ji ,Zui Hou
         | Zhi You Ji Zhi Jia Yang Mu Ji Liao .  3.Ke Neng Zui Da De Bu
         | Tong Shi Wo Fei Chang Hao Qi ,Dui Yi Qie Du Hen Hao Qi ,Zhi Jin
         | Reng Ran Shi Zhe Yang ,Dui Suo You Shi Qing Du Xiang Wen Yi Xia
         | Wei Shi Yao . Ling Wai Yi Ge Hen Da De Ying Xiang Shi ,Wo Gan
         | Jue Zi Ji Mei You Gen ,Zai Shi Jie Shang Piao . Wen Zhang Di Er
         | Bu Fen You Ti Dao ,Zheng Ge Han Qu Ban Qian Liao ,Wo Mei Gu
         | Xiang Liao .  4.Na Yi Dai Ren Shi Zhen De Ren Wei Zi Ji Zai
         | nation-building,Bu Ji Hui Bao De Fu Chu . Hen Duo Ren Du Shi
         | Cong Fa Da Cheng Shi Diao Guo Qu De ,Ta Men Jia Ren Hen Duo
         | Nian Du Bu Zhi Dao Ta Men Zai Zuo Shi Yao . Hen Qi Guai ,Zhe Ke
         | Neng Bei Ren Wei Shi Zui Yan Zhong De Xi Nao ,Dan Shi Dang Ta
         | Men Chi Kai 404Fan Dao Zhao Bu Dao Sheng Huo De Yi Yi Liao .
        
       | saltwatercowboy wrote:
       | Something about this feels off. Anyone else?
        
         | the_af wrote:
         | It feels off to me as well.
         | 
         | It's the kind of unverifiable story that we would like to
         | believe, but there's almost zero way of having independent
         | confirmation. The photos could be from anywhere. The author
         | seems likeable and writes an interesting story, but who knows
         | how much of it is true.
         | 
         | The story seems almost tailored to cater to HN, with secret
         | projects, nuclear power, China, and secrecy.
        
           | amdivia wrote:
           | Feels AI-ish as well, and OP used em-dashes in some of their
           | replies. But it could be attributed to a language barrier of
           | sorts requiring the use of LLMs to communicate
        
             | nephihaha wrote:
             | I use em dashes in prose -- and I am not AI.
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | I'm using AI to translate comments, and it does sounds AI.
             | My IELTS is 7.5, and writing band 6.0, so I have to rely on
             | the tool currently.
        
           | seanmcdirmid wrote:
           | It is completely plausible, and no details in the story are
           | outlandish for China. Heck, it feels tamer than I would
           | imagine, even.
        
             | robwwilliams wrote:
             | Agreed. In my opinion, too much strange embodied experience
             | in this engaged and engaging Part 1.
             | 
             | If I told you stories from my childhood as an 10-year old
             | child of an undercover operative in West Germany in
             | 1962-1963 I think many would claim "fiction". If I did not
             | have my sister as an independent memory backup, even I
             | might have doubts. She was lucky and unlucky and had a big
             | brother.
        
             | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
             | Part 2 is the harsh part, including death and execution.
             | And now I know how hard life was, but when I was a kid, I
             | just feel 404 is the sweetest home.
        
               | seanmcdirmid wrote:
               | That makes sense. I've heard harsher stories in China.
               | 
               | I lived in west Richland Washington as a kid, my dad
               | worked at Hanford which is a giant nuclear reservation in
               | the western USA. It was mostly typical American kid life,
               | so nothing on your experience, except my dad eventually
               | died of a rare cancer and we got a settlement from the US
               | Department of Energy.
               | 
               | I spent 9 years living in Beijing but first visited in
               | 1999 when thinks were kind of still brutaleski. I've had
               | a couple of experiences with the PLA (living in a
               | building where I wasn't supposed to be living and some
               | off limit areas on the border for foreigners that they
               | don't tell you about).
        
               | maxglute wrote:
               | I was invited to lunch near factory 541, tank city, a
               | pseudo closed area sprawled in some Shanxi valley. Turned
               | out it was lunch and a show, they were going executing
               | some drug traffickers from strike hard. Impromptu don't
               | do drug lesson from uncle. We had to turn around because
               | I had naturalized western citizenship and weird dialect
               | by then and they figure security would not let us
               | through. It was pretty surreal experience vs how nice and
               | insular danwei life was otherwise.
        
               | johanyc wrote:
               | is part 2 already published somewhere in chinese?
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | Those pictures photoed by me and my parents,I did use LLM to
           | translate, cause my english is not good enough to write a
           | long article.
        
             | saltwatercowboy wrote:
             | I apologise. I write too and I've been bothered by LLM-
             | generated content masquerading as the work it takes to tell
             | an effective narrative. It was the combination of generated
             | responses in the comments alongside what I thought was a
             | generated image that set me off, but I was clearly being
             | far too militant.
        
         | decimalenough wrote:
         | It's translated. Here's the original:
         | 
         | https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/22190111
        
       | qingcharles wrote:
       | Were there any birth defects from the radiation? I'm still
       | haunted by a BBC report I saw when I was a kid of residents who
       | lived near some Chinese nuclear test facility and it showed the
       | unbelievable birth defects their children were suffering.
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | As far as I know, it didn't happen in 404, cause factory area
         | and living area are split. Wo Men Han Qu Li Hao Xiang Mei You
         | ,Yin Wei Sheng Huo Qu He Sheng Chan Qu Shi Fen Kai De .
        
       | tingx wrote:
       | 404 history
       | https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E6%A0%B8%E5%...
        
       | Obscurity4340 wrote:
       | > Witnessing such scorched-earth containment (ending with
       | someones couch being neutralized) makes the modern definition of
       | nuclear power as the 'cleanest energy' completely
       | incomprehensible to me.
       | 
       | Thats a bit much, isnt it? This was in the early days of their
       | nuclear progress, of course at the time it wasnt going to be a
       | linear, completely efficient and sanitized. Kind of a weird
       | comment, nothing develops perfectly while its development chugs
       | along
        
         | jama211 wrote:
         | It's a personal emotional experience, nothing weird about it at
         | all. Only weird thing is how you singled it out.
        
         | nephihaha wrote:
         | The development programme was haphazard. They got bits and
         | pieces off the Soviets and had to figure the rest out.
        
           | Obscurity4340 wrote:
           | Right, but the statement extends to the present state of mind
           | of the writer. They're saying that they currently find the
           | notion that nuclear energy can be clean or the cleanest as
           | absurd based on their childhood in the infancy of the
           | program.
           | 
           | Isnt it currently the consensus that nuclear energy can be
           | one of the more clean energy sources? Because they seem to
           | hold their childhood view that thats crazy
        
       | Koekje wrote:
       | This seems to be the original story in Chinese, from 2016:
       | https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/22190111
        
         | Aboutplants wrote:
         | Now I'm confused
        
           | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
           | I posted this in Chinese first.And use AI translated.
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Yes,it is.
        
       | desmoulins wrote:
       | This is really interesting, from what the first part describes,
       | the design and operation of "factory 404" has a lot in common
       | with similar facilities built in the US and Russia. The US built
       | the Hanford/Richland site in the desert of eastern Washington,
       | and Russia built Mayak/Ozyorsk in an isolated part of the Urals.
       | They're all versions of this project to build a self-contained
       | 'utopia' city in the wilderness, dedicated to secret work on
       | nuclear technology. There's also the same social tension between
       | highly skilled workers, transient unskilled workers, and the
       | military/political leadership. (For anyone interested, _Plutopia_
       | by Kate Brown is a good read on the subject)
       | 
       | I wonder if this site in the Gobi ended up having the same
       | problems with radioactive contamination from accidents and
       | unethical experiments that Hanford and Mayak had?
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | To be honest, growing up inside, we lived in a state of
         | 'enforced innocence.' While Hanford and Mayak's histories are
         | now well-documented in the West, 404's specific records
         | regarding accidents or contamination remain largely
         | classified.I only heard some stories from my parents.
        
       | schoen wrote:
       | In the U.S. we have belatedly had declassification of various
       | parts of military history, including lots of details about Los
       | Alamos (where the U.S. atom bomb was invented). Sometimes this
       | has happened on a delay of many decades and there are certainly
       | still some things that the public might think of as part of
       | "history" that are not officially declassified. Has there been a
       | similar process in China where older military history is no
       | longer officially secret?
        
         | orbital-decay wrote:
         | See also "Restricted Data: The History of Nuclear Secrecy in
         | the United States" by Alex Wellerstein.
        
       | nonninz wrote:
       | Absolutely beautiful story thank you so much for sharing.
       | 
       | I don't mind AI translation at all. The style comes off as a bit
       | weird indeed, but I just took it off as a style I'm not used to
       | because it comes from a different culture than mine. I wouldn't
       | mind much the naysayers, I'd like to see them posting something
       | in chinese and see how they'd like it ;)
       | 
       | I really enjoyed the writing style actually, all these different
       | anectodes condensed in shorter sentences, without fluff or trying
       | to connect them in a single narrative. Maybe this is not the
       | correct way to put it, but I'm also not a native English speaker
       | nor I have any classical training in writing.
       | 
       | Yours is the first substack I ever subscribed to and can't wait
       | to read part two. It actually pushed me to start writing some of
       | my childhood experiences.
       | 
       | Thank you again. Absolutely fascinating.
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | Thank you so much! I hope LLM didn't ruin the vibe, so I edited
         | many times, but still, english is not my first language, so it
         | probably still "looks like AI". I will try my best and I will
         | post part 2 on Monday.
        
       | Reason077 wrote:
       | Is the "404: not found" error code actually a humorous reference
       | to China's secret nuclear city?
       | 
       | After all, HTTP was invented at CERN, a nuclear research
       | institute. Staff there would presumably have been aware of "404"
       | and probably made jokes about the fact that it didn't exist...
        
         | Vincent_Yan404 wrote:
         | It's a coincidence.It's defined both a digital void and my
         | childhood home is the kind of irony.
        
       | tsoukase wrote:
       | First thank you for the sincere description. Second aren't you
       | afraid that the government doesn't run after you? Is this event
       | officially declassified? You certainly provide only childish
       | memories but... you know.
       | 
       | I am glad to know there was a third place besides USA and USSR
       | preparing nuclear stuff during the cold war.
        
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