[HN Gopher] They made me an offer I couldn't refuse (1997)
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They made me an offer I couldn't refuse (1997)
Author : classichasclass
Score : 21 points
Date : 2025-12-23 22:38 UTC (4 days ago)
(HTM) web link (jens.mooseyard.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (jens.mooseyard.com)
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| It should be flat out illegal to claim copyright on employees'
| work like this (which includes making people sign contracts
| giving up copyright on their work). If someone does something on
| their own time, with their own equipment, then they should own it
| regardless of their employer's business interests. These are
| employees, not slaves.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Google's stance on this was fairly draconian when I was working
| there, basically Google's position was that they could be in ANY
| business at ANY time so that ANY thing you worked on was theirs.
| On the day I joined, one of the other new hires had a marked up
| copy of the agreement with some VERY simple wording changes that
| said basically "wasn't in this business at the time the employee
| started working on the project" (aka a no retro-active clause)
| because this individual pointed out quite reasonably that if they
| were working on something in good faith on their own that wasn't
| part of Google's business and it turned out to be a really good
| idea, then Google, based on how the agreement was written, could
| go back and say "but we're in that business now too and you were
| working for us so we own your idea."
|
| To which the HR person at the orientation had said, "Don't worry
| Google wouldn't do that." And this individual said, "I'm sure
| they wouldn't, that's why it seems like a no-brainer to put it
| into the agreement, it just says they won't do something that you
| and I both agree they would never do. I can't sign the document
| as written without this." The HR person took the updated version
| off to someone (presumably legal). And then after lunch this
| person was not in the group (I had seen them eating lunch) So
| when we had finished up, before my mentor had arrived I went out
| and found them waiting on the circle for a ride and asked them
| what happened. They said, "Google said no and also said they were
| rescinding the offer of employment."
|
| And that told me everything I needed to know about how Google
| really thought about things vs what they _said_ they thought
| about things.
| like_any_other wrote:
| You think making such reasonable demands of your employer would
| go better if every employee did it together, organized in some
| way?
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Hmm, collective action, you might be on to something there
| :-). Personally I think if we could eliminate the who 'no
| warranty of any kind' disclaimer ability for software and
| organize around collectively fixing this sort of abuse in the
| market that things would be different in a very positive sort
| of way.
| rcbdev wrote:
| Works in Austria. The legally binding collective agreement
| contract for IT workers here has a specific clause regulating
| the terms of when an employer may or may not claim rights on
| IP created by the employee. (SS18 Diensterfindungen)
| BrenBarn wrote:
| How about if all employees of all companies did it together,
| organized in a way called law, so that you don't need to
| engage in this rigmarole and the company just never owns
| anything you do unless they specifically paid you to do it as
| part of your job?
| tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
| "And that told me everything I needed to know about how Google
| really thought about things vs what they said they thought
| about things."
|
| What you describe doesn't really provide much signal about
| this, because a big corp will always have a huge interest in
| having uniform working contracts. Exceptions are possible but
| only worth the headache with them for fairly high level
| employees. So even for a clause that they really wouldn't care
| much about, you'd expect a similar reaction.
| franktankbank wrote:
| Normalization of deviancy via law.
| cryptica wrote:
| This is part of the reason why I never worked for big tech. I
| always have a side project going. I cannot function without a
| side project.
|
| I don't believe that any corporation would ever reward me for
| any reason; so without a side project, I wouldn't have hope...
| How would I get out of bed in the morning to go to work,
| without hope?
|
| For me; day job is survival, that's it. I do it well because
| I'm well practiced and I need good output to provide me
| narrative cover but I don't trust any of it. I'm not invested
| in my day job at all. I assume it's all a PsyOp and I could
| lose the job any day for any weird reason. I act and pretend
| constantly and I care about nothing and no one and I trust no
| one.
| cryptica wrote:
| I think a good strategy is to change companies often and ensure
| that your side project isn't related to any of them. This creates
| a lot of complications and adds a layer of protection because if
| your current employer tried to claim the software as theirs, your
| previous 3 employers would all have claims (weak claims, that
| is).
|
| If the software is different from what all 4 companies would
| produce and it is all built outside of business hours, it gives
| you full leverage.
|
| If any specific company tries to imply that their claim is valid,
| they cannot do this without validating the claims of 3 other
| companies... Thus preventing themselves from obtaining the full
| ownership rights over the product.
|
| The company which actually wants your software would be better
| off just paying you and accepting your simple version of reality
| than trying to create complications for themselves by inventing
| some elaborate legal fiction.
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