[HN Gopher] They made me an offer I couldn't refuse (1997)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       They made me an offer I couldn't refuse (1997)
        
       Author : classichasclass
       Score  : 21 points
       Date   : 2025-12-23 22:38 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jens.mooseyard.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jens.mooseyard.com)
        
       | bigstrat2003 wrote:
       | It should be flat out illegal to claim copyright on employees'
       | work like this (which includes making people sign contracts
       | giving up copyright on their work). If someone does something on
       | their own time, with their own equipment, then they should own it
       | regardless of their employer's business interests. These are
       | employees, not slaves.
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | Google's stance on this was fairly draconian when I was working
       | there, basically Google's position was that they could be in ANY
       | business at ANY time so that ANY thing you worked on was theirs.
       | On the day I joined, one of the other new hires had a marked up
       | copy of the agreement with some VERY simple wording changes that
       | said basically "wasn't in this business at the time the employee
       | started working on the project" (aka a no retro-active clause)
       | because this individual pointed out quite reasonably that if they
       | were working on something in good faith on their own that wasn't
       | part of Google's business and it turned out to be a really good
       | idea, then Google, based on how the agreement was written, could
       | go back and say "but we're in that business now too and you were
       | working for us so we own your idea."
       | 
       | To which the HR person at the orientation had said, "Don't worry
       | Google wouldn't do that." And this individual said, "I'm sure
       | they wouldn't, that's why it seems like a no-brainer to put it
       | into the agreement, it just says they won't do something that you
       | and I both agree they would never do. I can't sign the document
       | as written without this." The HR person took the updated version
       | off to someone (presumably legal). And then after lunch this
       | person was not in the group (I had seen them eating lunch) So
       | when we had finished up, before my mentor had arrived I went out
       | and found them waiting on the circle for a ride and asked them
       | what happened. They said, "Google said no and also said they were
       | rescinding the offer of employment."
       | 
       | And that told me everything I needed to know about how Google
       | really thought about things vs what they _said_ they thought
       | about things.
        
         | like_any_other wrote:
         | You think making such reasonable demands of your employer would
         | go better if every employee did it together, organized in some
         | way?
        
           | ChuckMcM wrote:
           | Hmm, collective action, you might be on to something there
           | :-). Personally I think if we could eliminate the who 'no
           | warranty of any kind' disclaimer ability for software and
           | organize around collectively fixing this sort of abuse in the
           | market that things would be different in a very positive sort
           | of way.
        
           | rcbdev wrote:
           | Works in Austria. The legally binding collective agreement
           | contract for IT workers here has a specific clause regulating
           | the terms of when an employer may or may not claim rights on
           | IP created by the employee. (SS18 Diensterfindungen)
        
           | BrenBarn wrote:
           | How about if all employees of all companies did it together,
           | organized in a way called law, so that you don't need to
           | engage in this rigmarole and the company just never owns
           | anything you do unless they specifically paid you to do it as
           | part of your job?
        
         | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
         | "And that told me everything I needed to know about how Google
         | really thought about things vs what they said they thought
         | about things."
         | 
         | What you describe doesn't really provide much signal about
         | this, because a big corp will always have a huge interest in
         | having uniform working contracts. Exceptions are possible but
         | only worth the headache with them for fairly high level
         | employees. So even for a clause that they really wouldn't care
         | much about, you'd expect a similar reaction.
        
           | franktankbank wrote:
           | Normalization of deviancy via law.
        
         | cryptica wrote:
         | This is part of the reason why I never worked for big tech. I
         | always have a side project going. I cannot function without a
         | side project.
         | 
         | I don't believe that any corporation would ever reward me for
         | any reason; so without a side project, I wouldn't have hope...
         | How would I get out of bed in the morning to go to work,
         | without hope?
         | 
         | For me; day job is survival, that's it. I do it well because
         | I'm well practiced and I need good output to provide me
         | narrative cover but I don't trust any of it. I'm not invested
         | in my day job at all. I assume it's all a PsyOp and I could
         | lose the job any day for any weird reason. I act and pretend
         | constantly and I care about nothing and no one and I trust no
         | one.
        
       | cryptica wrote:
       | I think a good strategy is to change companies often and ensure
       | that your side project isn't related to any of them. This creates
       | a lot of complications and adds a layer of protection because if
       | your current employer tried to claim the software as theirs, your
       | previous 3 employers would all have claims (weak claims, that
       | is).
       | 
       | If the software is different from what all 4 companies would
       | produce and it is all built outside of business hours, it gives
       | you full leverage.
       | 
       | If any specific company tries to imply that their claim is valid,
       | they cannot do this without validating the claims of 3 other
       | companies... Thus preventing themselves from obtaining the full
       | ownership rights over the product.
       | 
       | The company which actually wants your software would be better
       | off just paying you and accepting your simple version of reality
       | than trying to create complications for themselves by inventing
       | some elaborate legal fiction.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-12-27 23:00 UTC)