[HN Gopher] I can't upgrade to Windows 11, now leave me alone
___________________________________________________________________
I can't upgrade to Windows 11, now leave me alone
Author : firefoxd
Score : 251 points
Date : 2025-12-21 18:43 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (idiallo.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (idiallo.com)
| spencerflem wrote:
| I love the phrase I heard recently: "software developers don't
| understand consent"
|
| It describes so much
| baal80spam wrote:
| Sales people don't understand it, not software developers.
| hulitu wrote:
| See Windows and Android. Blaming only the sales people is ...
| not helping.
| bigyabai wrote:
| Blaming the sales people is correct. Technically-minded
| people likely _do_ know better, they just lack the
| authority to override the top-down administrative
| decisions.
| ghostly_s wrote:
| These problems are rampant enough in the OSS world too, never
| heard of an open source salesman.
| paradox460 wrote:
| Rms?
| Blackthorn wrote:
| Which one invented "ask me again later" dialogs?
| mikestew wrote:
| Sales people, and that shit rolled downhill to the devs.
| The days of devs writing dialog text in something like
| Windows are _long_ gone.
| heelix wrote:
| What is the difference between software and car sales? The
| car sales knows when they are lying.
| canyp wrote:
| If you are a software developer and you implemented that
| without question, you suck.
| kotaKat wrote:
| Turns out "AI" is now "Arrogant Incels"?
| kgklxksnrb wrote:
| When I, as a developer, was told (essentially forced if I
| wanted to keep my job) to implement dark patterns, I did it
| knowing I made the world worse. I was fully aware of it, and my
| coworkers as well, we discussed it openly, and I imagine
| everyone implementing such tech are. Of course I and other
| could claim plausible deniability, "we didn't understand
| consent".
| ThrowawayR2 wrote:
| Software developers understand consent well but they understand
| dollar signs even better.
| drnick1 wrote:
| The Penguin is calling.
| mystraline wrote:
| Exactly.
|
| Upgrade, to Linux.
| claysmithr wrote:
| 2026 year of the linux desktop
| baal80spam wrote:
| Any year now!
| WXLCKNO wrote:
| I've always dual booted windows with some Linux and used
| it like 90/10.
|
| I haven't even tried windows 11 even though my PC is
| compatible.
|
| Went full Linux and I'm not sure what I was missing at
| this point that I needed from Windows.
|
| Ran Pop OS (cosmic) which is the new Wayland based one
| but unfortunately it's still buggy and then I switched to
| a gaming focused Linux called Bazzite which has been
| perfect.
|
| Tiny learning curve because it's an "immutable" OS but
| have everything I need running on it plus everything
| gaming related works out of the box.
| brokencode wrote:
| I'm really hoping Steam Deck keeps on pushing game makers
| to support Linux. It's really gotten a lot better, except
| for competitive games that need most types of anti-cheat.
|
| If Linux supported all the games I wanted to play, I
| would ditch Windows on my home PC.
| brokencode wrote:
| I ran Linux on my laptop in college over a decade ago and
| it worked great.
|
| It just depends on application compatibility and to a
| smaller extent driver support, though that shouldn't be a
| problem for an older laptop.
| summa_tech wrote:
| I don't know... Two people around me recently switched to
| Linux because they could not stand how bad Windows 11
| got. I did not encourage either of them (I've got my
| share of frustrations after running a Linux desktop
| exclusively for 25 years, and will not consent to be the
| object of their ire when they inevitably get frustrated -
| I'd rather help them on neutral ground instead).
| bigyabai wrote:
| It was 2019 for me. I haven't daily-driven a Windows or
| Mac machine in almost 5 years now.
| Animats wrote:
| Me either.
|
| But Firefox on Ubuntu is not very good. It can expand to
| fill the whole machine and get killed by the OOM killer.
| Sometimes during long text input it hangs and has to be
| killed and restarted. 8 GB isn't enough any more.
| bigyabai wrote:
| Yep, I use a tab suspender to keep Firefox in check, and
| use zram/swap on my laptop. Works like a charm for me.
| Too wrote:
| To be honest Linux desktop has been ready for the past 4-5
| years or so. Long gone are the days where Bluetooth
| suddenly stopped, external monitors crashing and when
| closing the lid only put the laptop to sleep every fifth
| time. Heck, even Wayland, wireless printers and usb-c
| docking stations work these days, even with nvidia. You
| might even find some games.
|
| It's become a boring appliance that just works every time.
| Just they way I want it. I even forgot how to use grub.
| burky wrote:
| Especially having ChatGPT, Claude, or Gemini available
| nowadays. It's a godsend when troubleshooting any Linux
| issues, and you can learn so much in the process.
|
| I just upgraded my PC's motherboard, CPU, memory, and
| video card and used Claude as a build buddy to help me
| lay out steps to follow. I also used it after installing
| CachyOS for the second time, but on this new hardware. It
| had me double checking to make sure I had all the proper
| drivers set up by running commands, but everything was
| already setup correctly by CachyOS. It even helped me
| figure out that I had a fan wire half plugged in, which
| was causing a fan not to throttle. I would alternate
| between Claude Sonnet 4.5 and ChatGPT 5.2. But it's so
| much easier and quicker than the old days of sifting
| through the manuals and forums, if you could get online
| to a forum that is.
| twilo wrote:
| Why bother with Linux when there is MacOS? You get decent
| hardware to go with it too
| MarsIronPI wrote:
| Because some of us would rather not have to buy new
| hardware just because Apple says no more updates for your
| machine.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| IMO Mac eco is good hardware plus meh software. Some built
| ins are really in bad shape -- but I guess people have
| different opinions, although I think calling Finder a beta
| version is an insult to "beta".
| canyp wrote:
| Because MacOS is just as insidious? Recent versions will
| bring up the iCloud pop-up on every boot. Won't go away
| until you comply.
|
| Both Mac and Windows are for suckers.
| chocochunks wrote:
| Actual control over my computer? Apple might have less ads,
| but they really go out of their way to make you feel
| uncomfortable doing anything they deem not the happy path.
| And they're still plenty willing to push subscriptions and
| their software.
| Neil44 wrote:
| Not being battered by upsells nobody asked for every time you
| turn the laptop on is so refreshing.
| cogman10 wrote:
| My 5 year old laptop runs a lot faster as well.
|
| Linux was designed to run on potatoes and has very little
| bloat over the years. The UX isn't terribly worse on fairly
| old hardware.
| immibis wrote:
| Linux has plenty of bloat. But it's _your_ bloat. You get
| the power to slice through it how you want and nobody will
| stop you.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Well, I'd say it's almost the reverse of how it is with
| windows.
|
| In windows, the bloat is built in by default. You don't
| get to chose how the start menu works, you get the
| windows default start menu and you better like the ads in
| it. It takes work to pull that garbage out.
|
| In linux most stuff is opt in.
|
| The other part of linux is most stuff isn't simply there
| running in the background by default. Firefox eats a
| decent amount of memory, but it's not doing that when I
| don't have my browser open.
| charcircuit wrote:
| >Linux was designed to run on potatoes
|
| This is factually not true.
| MarsIronPI wrote:
| > Linux was designed to run on potatoes and has very little
| bloat over the years. I think it's more that it was
| designed in the 80s-90s for hardware at the time, and
| hasn't added bloat or "requirements" since then. So as
| computers have gotten more capable Linux takes less of the
| overall capacity.
| maniacwhat wrote:
| This reminds me of the situation with online ads.
|
| Most people with ad blockers don't realize how unusable the
| web is for those that don't have ad blockers. I think most
| would agree this is a poor state that industry incentives
| have landed us in, and with the web being distributed, it's
| hard to know how to fix.
|
| Similarly those who use Linux probably don't realize how bad
| Windows has got recently.
|
| Microsoft has managed to replicate this awful ux problem on a
| system that they entirely control...
| the_snooze wrote:
| When your computer does what you tell it and it doesn't
| actively try to undermine your intentions, computing becomes
| fun again.
| MarsIronPI wrote:
| Instead, you get battered by proselytes every time you go
| online! :D
| userbinator wrote:
| Windows used to be like that too, when MS was more focused on
| being hostile to the competition than its own customers.
| jesprenj wrote:
| I sure like seeing Expanded Security
| Maintenance for Applications is not enabled. 0
| updates can be applied immediately. 108
| additional security updates can be applied with ESM Apps.
| Learn more about enabling ESM Apps service at
| https://ubuntu.com/esm
|
| every time I log in. Or
|
| > You do not have a valid subscription for this server. Please
| visit www.proxmox.com to get a list of available options.
|
| every time I log in.
| Too wrote:
| That's if you run a OS version older than 5 years. You can
| still update to a newer Ubuntu version for free and get
| another 5 years if you pick an LTS version.
| bramhaag wrote:
| Believe it or not, Ubuntu is not the only Linux distribution.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| So disable it?
| petcat wrote:
| > at this point a Windows machine only belongs to you in name.
| Microsoft can run arbitrary code on it.
|
| I get what the author is trying to say, but...like... obviously?
| souenzzo wrote:
| I mean, the free software community has been saying this for 40
| years now.
| voidfunc wrote:
| I mean.. how is this different from any OS distribution?
| Apple can push whatever. So can Red Hat or Ubuntu or Gentoo.
| Unless im literally running Linux From Scratch im at the
| mercy of maintainers to do whatever they want.
| undersuit wrote:
| Provide a way to show that your compiled code is what you
| say it is.
|
| https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds
| MarsIronPI wrote:
| But where does the original compiler come from?
| Reproducible builds are only as good as the compiler used
| to compile them. That's the point of Trusting Trust. If
| you build with a backdoored compiler and I reproduce your
| build with the same backdoored compiler, that solves
| nothing. This is why full-source bootstrap is
| important[0].
|
| [0]: https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2023/the-full-source-
| bootstrap-...
| Certhas wrote:
| Is that true? Can Ubuntu download and install and run new
| code without me doing anything? I am not sure that's the
| case.
|
| Of course every time I run an update, they can install
| whatever. But that's different from what Windows is doing
| as I understand it...
| AndrewDucker wrote:
| "Ubuntu will apply security updates automatically,
| without user interaction. This is done via the
| unattended-upgrades package, which is installed by
| default."
|
| https://documentation.ubuntu.com/server/how-
| to/software/auto...
| aruggirello wrote:
| Right, but it's a minor annoyance, get rid of it with:
| sudo apt-get remove --purge unattended-upgrades
|
| (doesn't trigger removal of anything else, and you'll
| enjoy 420kb of additional disk space).
|
| OTOH the real issue with Ubuntu is snap(d). Snap packages
| _definitely_ do auto-update. You may want to uninstall
| the whole snap system - it 's (still?) perfectly
| possible, if a little bit convoluted, due to some
| infamous snaps like firefox, thunderbird, chromium, or
| eg. certbot on servers
|
| Or just use Debian or any snap-free fork for the matter.
|
| Edit: fixed
| jmclnx wrote:
| There are a lot more distros than RH, Ubuntu, Gentoo and
| LFS. And none of them will show you ads except maybe
| Ubuntu. Plus you can also look at *BSD.
|
| None of them comes close to what Microsoft is doing. To me,
| your comment looks like you do not understand the Linux
| eco-system. Plus IIRC, LFS can now come with compiled
| binaries.
| II2II wrote:
| I'm not sure what the current state of most distributions
| is, but I remember update applications providing an option
| to accept or reject individual packages. Even without that,
| you could preview the list of pending updates and delay
| them indefinitely, do manual updates of individual
| packages, or configure it to ignore particular packages
| during updates. Historically, I believe that you could
| block certain updates on Windows as well - or maybe you
| could just rollback and update. Of course none of this is
| considered user friendly so things may have changed.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| _I mean.. how is this different from any OS distribution?_
|
| The other OS distributions let you turn it off.
| ErroneousBosh wrote:
| > Apple can push whatever. So can Red Hat or Ubuntu or
| Gentoo
|
| In the case of Ubuntu and Debian, and to a lesser extent
| RedHat, I trust the developers not to do that because they
| have a history of not "just pushing whatever".
|
| Also in many cases I actually know these developers, and I
| can go round and ask them / remonstrate with them / put a
| brick through their window / other response if required
| about it.
| p_ing wrote:
| In 1985, there were no autoupdates/forced updates/or really
| any available updates that didn't come on physical media.
| asdefghyk wrote:
| Probably influenced by the Microsoft history of sneaky things
| over last 45 years
| II2II wrote:
| I get what you're saying, but OS vendors could prevent
| themselves from running arbitrary code, even from themselves,
| without the user's authorization if they really wanted to. I'm
| not sure it is in anyone's best interest since it would affect
| everything from security updates to automatically installing
| device drivers (e.g. people would be left with insecure systems
| or would claim Windows is broken since most would not
| understand the prompts). It would also be difficult to prevent
| Microsoft's marketing department from sneaking a trojan horse
| into things like security update.
| charcircuit wrote:
| The average user is not able to understand the code that is
| running and the 99th percentile user does not want to spend
| the time to understand the code.
| kgwxd wrote:
| Make it do the security stuff out-of-the-box, allow the user
| to change ANYTHING they want, including turning off the
| security stuff. Linux! It's in everyone's best interest.
| amelius wrote:
| Holds for Apple devices just as well.
| TekMol wrote:
| Linux
| Fairburn wrote:
| Block updates, remove bloat via PS scripts. Done.
| self_awareness wrote:
| > I also paid for a pro version of the OS.
|
| Yep. And you got what you've paid for.
|
| Look at it. This is "pro" now.
| rspoerri wrote:
| disable tpm in the bios
| ktm5j wrote:
| What would that accomplish?
| rspoerri wrote:
| it doesnt install windows 11...
| andrewstuart wrote:
| Satya Nadella really nosedived Windows.
| stevenjgarner wrote:
| I disagree. I think his intention was to maximize shareholder
| value which he has done dramatically by making the user the
| product being sold. Microsoft stock has soared even at the
| expense of Microsoft shedding users. Satya has realized the
| true value of Windows as a revenue platform. It never was a
| competitive operating system.
|
| From my earlier comment to another Windows post:
|
| Windows 11 has transitioned from a standalone tool into a
| digital storefront that prioritizes recurring revenue through
| aggressive prompts for Microsoft 365 and OneDrive
| subscriptions. By mandating cloud-based Microsoft Accounts, the
| OS effectively anchors your identity to a marketing ID,
| allowing the company to track behavior and monetize your data.
| The interface now functions as an advertising platform,
| injecting "recommended" apps and sponsored content directly
| into the Start menu and search results. Ultimately, this shift
| means users are no longer just customers of a product, but
| recurring assets whose attention and telemetry are sold to
| sustain Microsoft's ecosystem and maximize shareholder value.
| wvenable wrote:
| I disagree. Satya doesn't give a crap about Windows; he's the
| cloud guy. Over 40% of Microsoft's revenue is cloud. Another
| 20% is office (which is also heading towards cloud). Windows
| revenue is a measly 9% -- even less than _gaming_.
|
| Windows is what it is because it's really not important to
| Microsoft to anymore. It's effectively unmoored from the rest
| of organization and left to fight for some kind of financial
| relevance in an organization that doesn't care about it
| anymore.
| Animats wrote:
| Why would anyone want to buy a new computer now unless the old
| one is worn out? There is no price/performance improvement. Nor
| will there be for the next five years or so. NVidia says to
| expect 10% price increases each year. DRAM prices have doubled,
| and Samsung says not to expect price cuts. Micron just exited the
| retail RAM business.
|
| Microsoft is trying to escape this trap by pivoting to Windows as
| a subscription service. It will get worse, not better.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| My only complain is that nowadays laptops are usually poorly
| built, so unless one purchases an expensive guarantee, anything
| beyond the default guarantee is not guaranteed.
| cm2187 wrote:
| And the manufacturers are in a quest to remove as many keys
| as they can from the keyboard. Like you can hardly find any
| light laptop today with page up/down keys anymore. Why?....
| Haven't these guys heard of keyboard shortcuts?
| arccy wrote:
| don't you like doing finger contortions to use all the
| modifier keys?
| cm2187 wrote:
| I think it is the single most convincing proof that we
| are being secretly replaced by lizard people with 8
| fingers!
| AdrianB1 wrote:
| 8 fingers to each of the 4 hands, to be clear :)
| gerdesj wrote:
| You probably didn't grow up with horrors like the
| WordPerfect function key strip or being faced with a
| keyboard like that on the ZX80/81/Speccy etc.
| sixtyj wrote:
| Yes, it's a miracle that after 40 years of typing every
| day, my fingers still work. But that may be a biased view
| on my part; there may be lots of programmers out there
| with arthritis in their fingers, carpal tunnel syndrome,
| and other occupational diseases.
| OptionOfT wrote:
| They aren't always the same: https://devblogs.microsoft.c
| om/oldnewthing/20110809-00/?p=99...
|
| Also, even when they are the same, on certain laptops you
| literally hit the key-rollover problem.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| Oh yeah, they sometimes put page up and down on up and down
| which infuriates me very much. There are other issues like
| less USB ports, but overall quality is poor comparing to
| MacBooks.
| userbinator wrote:
| I suspect it's gradual cost-cutting. At the manufacturing
| scales they're operating with, even one keyswitch adds up.
| ack_complete wrote:
| Worse than that, there's no consistency in Fn+key
| shortcuts. Recently acquired an HP Ergonomic Keyboard as a
| replacement for a broken Sculpt, only to find out that it
| literally cannot send Ctrl+Break -- there's no key for it,
| no Fn+key shortcut for it and the remapping software
| doesn't simulate it properly.
| intrasight wrote:
| Buy the keyboard you want. There are plenty of good ones.
| VerifiedReports wrote:
| Nothing tops Apple's infantile refusal to put a (real)
| Delete key on their laptops. Instead, they have a Backspace
| key mislabeled "delete."
|
| When the Eject key became obsolete, Apple had a perfect
| opportunity to fix this omission with essentially no
| effort. NOPE. Meanwhile, everybody else managed to have a
| proper Delete key on their laptops.
| joshka wrote:
| A hill that I'll die on is that Apple's terminology is
| more correct than PC terminology for this.
|
| Backspace makes sense if you see the computer as a fancy
| typewriter.
|
| Delete makes sense if you consider the actions from first
| principles.
|
| Consider the various forms of deletion (forward,
| backward, word, file deletion, etc.) Each of these just
| has a modifier key in Apple's way of thinking. (None, Fn,
| Option, Cmd) which makes complete sense when viewed
| against how consistent it is with the whole set of
| interface design guidelines for Apple software.
|
| The only reason that this doesn't make sense is that it's
| incompatible with your world view brought from places
| with different standards. They will never "fix" this as
| there's just nothing to fix.
| rob74 wrote:
| Yes. So Microsoft (which manufactures hardware itself and has
| close ties to other hardware manufacturers) needed to find...
| other ways to, er, _motivate_ people to buy new hardware
| anyway. Which brings us back to the blog post we are commenting
| on.
|
| Not sure Windows as a subscription service is the end goal
| though. But maybe we should all wish for M$ to do that, maybe
| that would be what's needed to finally bring about the Year of
| The Linux Desktop(tm).
| kgwxd wrote:
| > motivate people to buy new hardware
|
| Open source drivers, and a sense that Linux support will
| forever be top priority, would be a motivator for me. Most of
| my tech spend has been with Valve in the past few years. I'd
| love if there was another company I actually enjoy giving my
| money to.
| kalaksi wrote:
| May I suggest Framework (https://frame.work/linux).
| CrossVR wrote:
| I don't think selling more hardware is the primary
| motivation. The motivation is ensuring everyone has TPM 2.0
| enabled on their device.
|
| This allows Microsoft to protect parts of their software even
| from the user that owns the hardware it's running on. With
| TPM enabled you finally give up the last bit of control you
| had over the software running on your hardware.
| sixtyj wrote:
| And clever people found out the way -
| https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-
| re...
| bitwize wrote:
| Windows 12 will close the loophole: your CPU will require
| a signed code path from boot down to application level
| code. No option to disable Secure Boot or install your
| own keys. But there needs to be an installed base of
| secure hardware for this to happen, hence the TPM 2.0
| requirements for Windows 11.
| CrossVR wrote:
| You're missing the point, the TPM 2.0 requirement is
| there to drive adoption, not to actually prevent you from
| installing Windows 11.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Registry keys and autoattend.xml config keys are not
| clever people finding a way, it's people using stuff
| Microsoft put there to do just this for now. I.e. Windows
| 11 has not been strictly enforcing these yet, they are
| just "officially" requirements so when they eventually
| decide to enforce in a newer version (be it an 11 update
| or some other number) they'll then be able to say "well
| it's really been an official requirement for many years
| now, and over 99% of Windows 11 installs which has been
| the only supported OS for a while now are working that
| way" at that time. If they just went straight from
| Windows 10 to strictly enforced Windows 11 options
| it'd've been harder to defend.
| fluidcruft wrote:
| Maybe instead Microsoft could allow Windows 11 to install
| and run on machines that are otherwise capable and just
| flash red screens at you all the time where otherwise ads
| would show up that constantly nag that "THIS COMPUTER IS
| FUCKING INSECURE!" or something. It would be equally as
| annoying but I'm sure running latest Windows 11 but with
| TPM 1.0 instead of TPM 2.0 will be more secure than running
| Windows 10 without bug fixes and security patches.
|
| (But my understanding is there were other things like
| bumping minimum supported instruction sets that happened to
| mismatch a few CPUs that support the newer instruction sets
| but were shipped with chipsets using the older TPM)
| will4274 wrote:
| We want to delete the fallback code paths... You'll just
| get failures from bitlocker instead of install failures,
| or windows hello failures, or ...
| will4274 wrote:
| Hardware key storage is a low level security primitive.
| Both Android and iOS have mandated it for far longer. It's
| a low level security primitive that enables a lot of
| scenarios, not just DRM.
|
| For example - it's not possible to protect SSH keys from
| malware that achieves root without hardware storage. Only
| hardware storage can offer the "Unplug It" guarantee - that
| unplugging a compromised machine ends the compromise.
| CrossVR wrote:
| Ah yes Android and iOS, they have truly become bastions
| of user freedom since mandating secure enclaves. That
| really puts my worries to rest. /s
| LtWorf wrote:
| If you want to protect keys you get a yubikey or
| something like that.
| tapoxi wrote:
| Unbreakable DRM for software, such as for your $80 billion
| game business or your subscription office suite.
|
| As a bonus, it prevents those pesky Windows API
| compatibility tools like Wine from working if the
| application is designed to expect signed and trusted
| Windows.
| com2kid wrote:
| The mass exodus to Linux gaming is already causing a push
| back against kernel level anti-cheat.
|
| People who 5 years ago didn't give a hoot about computing
| outside of running steam games are now actively
| discussing their favorite Linux distro and giving advice
| to friends and family about how to make the jump.
| blibble wrote:
| it will never be unbreakable, and only needs to be broken
| once
|
| intel can't even get SGX to work
| 9dev wrote:
| > With TPM enabled you finally give up the last bit of
| control you had over the software running on your hardware.
|
| The overwhelming majority of users never had any kind of
| control over the software running on their hardware,
| because they don't know (and don't want to know) how the
| magical thinking machine works. These people will benefit
| from a secure subsystem that the OS can entrust with
| private key material. I absolutely see your point, but this
| will improve the overall security of most people.
| Terr_ wrote:
| > The overwhelming majority of users never had any kind
| of control
|
| Uninterested is vastly different than unable, especially
| when that majority is still latently "able" to use some
| software that a knowledgeable-minority creates to Help Do
| The Thing.
|
| The corporate goal is to block anyone else from
| _providing_ users that control if /when the situation
| becomes intolerable enough for the majority to desire it.
|
| Most people don't move away from their state of residence
| either, but we should be very concerned if someone floats
| a law stating that you are not permitted to leave without
| prior approval.
| hulitu wrote:
| > So Microsoft (which manufactures hardware itself and has
| close ties to other hardware manufacturers)
|
| You mean the Microsoft vacuum cleaner ? /s
| chocochunks wrote:
| Any computer that can't run Windows 11 is almost a decade old.
| There has been plenty of improvement. Compare a laptop with a
| high end Intel i7 7920HK to even a lower end part like the Core
| Ultra 5 226V. Right now prices on pre-builts and laptops aren't
| totally reflecting the craziness at least.
| detritus wrote:
| Cool, but my decade-old machine works perfectly well for my
| needs, as too I imagine a million other such machines.
| chocochunks wrote:
| I'm sure it works, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been
| improvements.
| ErroneousBosh wrote:
| Not really. Improvements like what?
|
| I have a brand-new work laptop which absolutely crawls
| compared to my nearly-15-year-old Thinkpad T430. Is this
| slowness the Windows 11 advantage? My personal laptop
| runs plain ordinary Ubuntu 24.04 perfectly, and
| everything works.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| Not a lot of people benefit from having 20 cores to hit.
| LtWorf wrote:
| If by improvements you mean that suspend works like shit
| on newer machines, yes there have been.
| dotancohen wrote:
| My daily desktop is mostly 2012 vintage. This hardware is
| still in use and works fine.
|
| For what it's worth, that machine is being used while I
| upgrade my 2001 Computer Of Theseus once more. It's now
| getting it's third motherboard with CPU - this one salvaged
| from a 2018 or 2019 gaming machine. It's on its second case,
| and has seen more hard drive and memory upgrades than I can
| count - all of them piecemeal. Other than perhaps the
| motherboard screws and hard drive screws, I'm not sure if
| anything actually purchased in 2001 still survives in there.
| Maybe the power cable and pc speaker. And I don't remember
| ever replacing the rear case fan now that I'm looking at it.
| CrzyLngPwd wrote:
| It's triggers broom :-p
| sys_64738 wrote:
| Anybody who can upgrade a computer completely deserves a
| medal from the council.
| ungreased0675 wrote:
| But somehow, apps and websites load just as fast on my decade
| old personal laptop as on my brand new work laptop.
| ack_complete wrote:
| The antivirus / EDR / monitoring / inventory software that
| most corporate IT departments installs ages computers ten
| years. We constantly had problems with such services
| slamming the disk, holding files open, breaking software,
| running CPUs at 100%, etc.
| odie5533 wrote:
| Many budget laptops from 2020 don't support Windows 11. HP
| laptops with AMD A4-9125, HP notebooks with AMD A6-7310 APU,
| HP Envy x360 models with first-generation AMD Ryzen
| processors.
| beached_whale wrote:
| 2020 Apple MacBook pro has an i9-9880HK, more than enough,
| but lacks TPM2.0. The issue is this is just a waste of
| resources and money for a large number of people and the
| TPM2.0 requirement is silly.
| bluescrn wrote:
| A decade in computing used to mean revolutionary
| improvements:
|
| - from the C64 to the Pentium
|
| - from the Playstation 1 to the Xbox360
|
| - from the Nokia 3310 to the iPhone 4.
|
| Each of these in roughly a decade.
|
| But 2015-2025 in terms of desktop PCs? Some decent (but not
| revolutionary) steps forward with GPUs, and much more
| affordable+speedy SSDs. But everything else has been pretty
| small and incremental.
|
| And when enthusiasts upgrade, the old parts usually find new
| homes. My old 6th-gen i7 from a decade ago still has more
| than enough power for my Dad to use as a home PC for basic
| photo editing, web browsing, and spreadsheets. But Win10 end-
| of-life wants to turn that machine into e-waste.
| horizion2025 wrote:
| Well it also means it could be a good time to buy so you won't
| have to pay even more overprice for the same performance years
| down the line. I just bought one a good month ago. My old one
| was over 10 years old, not worn out, but not upgradeable to Win
| 11. I had been thinking waiting one more year before the
| security updates to Win10 are out... But I bought in when the
| first stories hit of the DDR5 price rises - at that time there
| had 'only' been a doubling, now the price is a further 3x of
| what I paid a good month ago. I thought it might be a good time
| to buy given the machine was so old and component prices were
| going up, and might for a long time. But yeah, performance
| improvements aren't what they used to. Part of the reason is
| that normal things were already felt so fast on the old one ;-)
| But I did get a much better gfx cards allowing some games that
| were unplayable before, and I think the CPU upgrade was needed
| for that as well, and then you might as well overhaul the
| machine. I also went from 16 to 64 GB, and the 16 GB had been a
| bit too little for some things.
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| > There is no price/performance improvement.
|
| Both performance and performance-per-watt continue to improve
| with each new generation of CPUs.
| VerifiedReports wrote:
| But that is squandered by piss-poor programming and stupid
| visual gimmicks.
|
| I had to return to Windows as a daily work platform after a
| long time away (on Macs). I already knew that it had devolved
| into a grotesquely defective, regressive parade of UI
| blunders and deleted functionality... but its actual
| performance is TERRIBLE. I'm waiting for simple operations
| that I wouldn't have expected to wait for 20 years ago, even
| on bog-standard office desktop machines.
| tombert wrote:
| You're not wrong, but I was disappointed recently by how well
| an eleven-year-old Macbook Air still works. I installed NixOS
| on it, and it's still pretty usable even on modern websites.
|
| An eleven year old computer is still _useful_ , which is kind
| of cool, but also kind of bothers me in that apparently we
| haven't made enough progress in software to justify buying
| new hardware, apparently.
| gldrk wrote:
| I'm actually happy about DRAM prices and hope more people share
| your mindset. This is the only thing that can force developers
| to start optimizing memory usage instead of externalizing the
| costs onto the poorest users.
| tyjen wrote:
| I sincerely hope it works out this way instead of pricing out
| open sourced development. A couple open sourced projects
| changed their licensing to help mitigate the increased cost
| burden from skyrocketing hardware costs. It'll be a sad and
| potentially dangerous day if most people are permanently
| priced out.
| doctorpangloss wrote:
| the #1 computing platform is the phone, 99.99% of users
| experience no memory pressure on iPhones
| pwg wrote:
| > Why would anyone want to buy a new computer now unless the
| old one is worn out? There is no price/performance improvement.
|
| Which is exactly why MS is pivoting to begging you to buy a new
| computer by harassing you with an apparently undismissable
| "upgrade" dialog.
|
| They _have_ to keep the upgrade treadmill running, and lacking
| "better performance" as the bait, they have resorted to
| outright harassment.
| gmponyo wrote:
| Do yourself a favor and start using Linux on both machines.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| I've been running Win11 without a TPM for 6 years. Saying you
| can't upgrade isn't the same thing as Windows saying you can't
| upgrade. Knowing your OS seems to be a lost art. I'm not
| dismissing the valid complaint, but the title is empirically
| wrong clickbait.
| tartoran wrote:
| Win11 was released at the end of 2021. What were you running
| for 6?
| prmoustache wrote:
| Just use something else and stop whining.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| There must be a way to disable this thing. Maybe we can disable
| the service? But anyway I already switched to Linux for my daily
| usage. It is not smooth as Windows due to driver issues and other
| weird things, like Firefox crashing frequently when I'm typing in
| a text box like this one, but still feels better than Windows.
|
| The Windows team and its product manager is determined to trash
| the product. Good work!
| ivanjermakov wrote:
| > There must be a way to disable this thing.
|
| If Windows had a slogan, this would be it.
| prmoustache wrote:
| In late 2025, there are plenty of alternatives:
|
| Linux FreeBSD NetBSD OpenBSD DragonflyBSD Haiku Plan9 Redox
| ReactOS Debian Gnu/Hurd FreeDOS Genode SculptOS
|
| And probably some others I haven't heard of. Using Windows in
| 2025 AND complaining about it is complaining about a self
| inflicted wound.
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| I think it would be less daunting for many if there were 1 or 2
| popular alternatives to rally around. Including window managers
| / desktop environments. (Granted, it's nice they can all
| coexist peacefully.)
| dullcrisp wrote:
| I think Linux is the most popular of the alternatives listed.
| askvictor wrote:
| There are a handful of popular Linux distros. Ubuntu is
| probably the most beginner-friendly one with the most staying
| power; it's the easiest place to start if you have no other
| ideas/requirements.
|
| The thing is, a healthy ecosystem thrives on diversity.
| Rallying behind one or two tends towards a monoculture.
| mr_person wrote:
| The more likely option than any of these excellent free options
| is going to be MacOS... just because your average user with
| even semi-technical inclination does not want to use
| LibreOffice Present; they want PowerPoint.
|
| I have just seen this first hand with my significant other:
| they are very technical and more than capable of it, but have
| zero interest in learning Linux and instead just bought a
| MacBook on Black Friday specials when their 5 year old HP
| laptop finally got too annoying to use.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Well, I didn't mention MacOS because it is not installable on
| the author's win10 computer.
|
| Also, MacOs is as difficult to learn as Linux is for someone
| who never used it. Resistance to change exist in all
| directions.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Most people are fine with the web version of Powerpoint.
| brooke2k wrote:
| Having a job that requires Windows is not what I would call
| self-inflicted.
| db48x wrote:
| True. It is a would inflicted by your employer in that case.
| Maybe you could find a different one that doesn't inflict
| such wounds.
| detritus wrote:
| What a bubble you exist in. I'm self-employed and my entire
| suite of software is either windows or apple only and I
| have 'been a pc' for nearly thirty years and have pc
| hardware that fulfills all my requirements and can't run
| apple software.
|
| I'm eyeing up a shift to apple when my current hardware
| fails me, but it's impossible for me to just go Linux.
| mistercheph wrote:
| You are a digital serf, dependent on the good will and
| love of a lord that gives you access in exchange for a
| tax.
|
| I really wish free(libre) tools existed that allowed you
| to do your work. Hopefully they will in the future, I am
| sure someone has tried/is trying to build them.
| tombert wrote:
| I think in your situation I'd use a Mac just because they
| don't show you a bunch of advertising bullshit all the
| time, but I do understand the overall point: a lot of
| software simply doesn't exist on Linux.
|
| Wine is getting better and better, but it's still not
| perfect yet. I am so wishing that they figure out a way
| to get modern MS Office working, and then I feel like a
| lot of people's only reasons for staying on Windows would
| suddenly disappear.
| prmoustache wrote:
| That is besides the point. In that case it is self-inflicted
| by the company choosing to depend on it.
| AdrianB1 wrote:
| Until recently (<10 years ago) Windows and native Windows
| apps (like Office) were the norm in most companies. Almost
| all employees knew how to use Windows. Re-training all was
| difficult. Now, with mostly web-apps for most non-IT
| employees it is a realistic change, but I am still not sure
| corporations will want to run without Active Directory and
| Crowdstrike.
| XorNot wrote:
| I literally only use Windows for games. And I guess now
| RealityScan which is gaming adjacent.
|
| If I had the confidence that I could play a new release on
| Linux day 1 without trading an enormous amount of performance,
| I wouldn't need Windows at all.
| some-guy wrote:
| My boomer mother in law could handle Linux whether it be GNOME
| or KDE. What she cannot handle is not being able to put in a
| DVD of Turbo Tax 20xx and double click the install button. Nor
| can she handle not having the native Outlook client, or
| Microsoft Word.
|
| Yes there are alternatives, and possibly even good enough web
| versions of these tools, but most of the world isn't like you
| and me.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Does TurboTax still distribute DVDs? I thought it was
| entirely online now.
| tombert wrote:
| Realistically only four of those are viable for modern
| workflows (Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD). It would be
| pretty hard to use Plan 9 or Genode/SculptOS with seL4 as a
| typical desktop OS. Haiku is _almost_ there, but I think it
| still has a ways to go before being anywhere close to adequate
| for my typical desktop use.
|
| I agree with the sentiment though; nowadays Linux has gotten
| good enough for most stuff, to a point where I don't really see
| why anyone still runs Windows. If only I could convince my
| parents of that...
| ChrisSD wrote:
| It's beside the point of the article but...
|
| > The hardware limitation is specifically TPM 2.0
|
| Almost every even half decent CPU made in the last decade does
| have TPM 2.0, albeit for some strange reason OEMs used to ship
| with it disabled. You may be able to turn it on in the bios.
| derekdahmer wrote:
| My 7700k, a top of the line CPU from 2017, doesn't support
| Windows 11 even though it has TPM 2.0. I had to install using
| rufus.
| ChrisSD wrote:
| For sure, there are other hardware requirements a 2017 CPU
| may fail.
| lachiflippi wrote:
| This is a massive pet peeve of mine as well. As far as I'm
| aware there's not a single consumer CPU listed in the Windows
| 11 compatibility list that _doesn 't_ have builtin TPM2.0.
| stevenjgarner wrote:
| Microsoft users are the product being sold
| j1elo wrote:
| Adding to the enshittified pile of bad decissions that Windows
| has become, the actual requirements for Windows 11 are just a
| corporate caprice and not a real " _requirement_ ". I did
| whatever it needed to bypass the checks at install time, and W11
| is now working exactly and equally as well as W10 was, on a
| laptop which only has TPM 1.2 and an old CPU.
|
| Where is the requirement then in modern CPUs and TPM 2.0,
| Microsoft? Didn't you mean "nice to have" so additional but
| perfectly optional security features could be enabled?
| Dwedit wrote:
| Rufus will let you install with a local account even on PCs that
| don't support TPM, but would you really want to?
| mastazi wrote:
| For many types of users, Windows is no longer viable. I have
| friends who work at a .NET shop and most of that team now uses
| Macs. Unthinkable just a few years ago. Meanwhile, I checked
| ProtonDB and now 90% of my Steam library is Platinum or Native.
| So I finally switched my gaming PC to Linux. Microsoft's
| priorities are elsewhere, Windows doesn't have a bright future.
| CommenterPerson wrote:
| I ordered a basic Windows laptop, it comes with Windows 11. It's
| going to be my Linux starter computer. I'm not a computer person.
| Wish me luck!
| codepoet80 wrote:
| I hope you researched Linux driver support for that model
| first. I share the dissatisfaction with the direction of
| Windows -- but their driver library is unparalleled. Linux CAN
| run great on lots of machines, but it has nowhere near the
| hardware support.
| notKilgoreTrout wrote:
| I've not really seen that much of a problem with Linux
| drivers being available recently while the quality problem of
| windows drivers being unreviewed code seems like its partly
| addressed for central monopolies but still in the peripherals
| if you'll pardon the pun.
| prmoustache wrote:
| > but it has nowhere near the hardware support.
|
| My usb scanner would like to have a word with you. Its last
| supported driver was for windows 2000 and it still works well
| on Linux.
|
| Hardware support vary between the 2 operating system and new
| stuff may be supported earlier on windows but I can't say
| that windows driver library is unparalleled, quite the
| opposite actually.
| sam_goody wrote:
| In Win 11 Home, and want to add a local account and not change it
| to a Windows account, and not share my stuff with MS. No Cloud or
| "Backups", thank you.
|
| The option to enable a local account was through the command line
| only. The dark patterns and persausion to convince me not to was
| off putting.
|
| But every time I boot in to have to go through the nag screen is
| off the wall.
|
| It is truly crazy how much I understand the dedication people
| have to avoid using a unfamiliar system.
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| And it's not just TPM. I have tpm module however they don't
| support my Intel 7700K processor.
| kosma wrote:
| Surprisingly effective solution: Windows Registry
| Editor Version 5.00 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Pol
| icies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
| "ProductVersion"="Windows 10"
| "TargetReleaseVersion"=dword:00000001
| "TargetReleaseVersionInfo"="22H2"
| markus_zhang wrote:
| Just curious what does it do?
| ack_complete wrote:
| Sets the underlying Registry keys for the Group Policy
| "Select the target Feature Update version". It tells the
| Windows Update service to select updates for a specific
| feature update instead of offering latest.
|
| https://gpsearch.azurewebsites.net/Default.aspx?PolicyID=151.
| ..
| smj-edison wrote:
| Is it possible to switch an existing windows 10 install to the
| extended support version? (Can't remember the exact term).
| markus_zhang wrote:
| LTSC. Technically MSFT doesn't offer them to laymen like us but
| I don't think they would care if you pirate them.
| eswat wrote:
| Sad to look back years ago when the first mobile apps started
| adopting this "Remind Me Later"-only dark pattern and is now
| festering everyday drivers like your OS.
|
| Between these and services that suddenly suffer from amnesia and
| spamming me with marketing notifications and emails after months
| or years of silence, it's becoming more tiring to use any service
| that grows significantly enough where they don't need to care
| about what their users actually want.
| dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
| > Sad to look back years ago when the first mobile apps started
| adopting this "Remind Me Later"-only dark pattern and is now
| festering everyday drivers like your OS.
|
| I can offer a slightly different perspective. I remember
| Microsoft from the 90s and early 2000s. And while technical
| details differ, their attitude towards users didn't change that
| much.
| horizion2025 wrote:
| The worst is when the only 'dismiss'-option is "I will do it
| later"... even if you have no intention of ever doing it...
| essentially forcing you to lie. It has been a while since I've
| seen it though, so that's progress!
| labrador wrote:
| I'm happy with Windows 11 after tweaks to fix it. I certainly
| sympathesize with Windows 10 users who can't upgrade. But it
| seems to me Windows 10 users aren't getting the message:
| Microsoft just isn't that into you.
|
| Do you think Windows OS is a profit center, especially after
| factoring in the cost of security fixes for older less secure
| releases? I'm guessing not (I don't have the figures) and
| Microsoft would rather you replace your 10 year old laptop that
| can't run Windows 11 or run Linux on it. They really don't care
| which, just as long as you go away and they don't have to support
| you anymore.
|
| I'm not assosciated with Microsoft, just someone who has been
| using their products for 40 years. I am someone who can read in
| between the lines, and this is my take.
| VitalKoshalew wrote:
| There is no free support, e.g. call center agents for Windows
| 10 users. As for security vulnerabilities in Windows 10,
| Microsoft is going to continue fixing them until at least 2032
| (probably longer with extended support) anyways, as Windows 10
| 1809 LTSC end-of-life is 2029 and Windows 10 21H2 IoT LTSC is
| supported until 2032.
|
| Microsoft isn't that into you either. With Windows 11 you are
| not a customer, you and your data are the products.
| labrador wrote:
| Meh. I'm also a Linux destop user on a second machine. I'll
| completely switch when Windows 11 becomes a problem for me.
| Microsoft used to be a OS company, but is now a cloud company
| that offers Linux on it's cloud services.
| CivBase wrote:
| The author just wants Microsoft to stop harassing him. He's not
| asking for handouts. He's not even asking to be allowed to
| bypass the hardware requirements for Windows 11. He just wants
| to stop getting nagged by Microsoft to upgrade.
|
| He could buy new hardware and run Windows 11. But this pattern
| will only continue from Microsoft. The only way out is to run a
| non-Microsoft OS (assuming he can).
| labrador wrote:
| You're not getting what I'm saying. Hassling him is the
| point. They want him to use Windows 11 or go away. He's a
| security update expense because he's too cheap to upgrade his
| laptop or run Linux on it.
| materialpoint wrote:
| The important point here is that data collection and
| telemetry is worthless and was never about improving the
| experience for you as a user. The coders behind the update
| nag had every opportunity to do a hardware check, but as I
| say, big data is never used to improve anything for end
| users.
| materialpoint wrote:
| How did you tweak and fix it? I suffer with Windows 11 at work
| and everything is just so slow. Alt+Tab often gets stuck and
| clicking icons on the taskbar don't register about a fifth of
| the time. Take a screenshot with Shift+Win+S? That's gonna take
| at least 10 seconds for the snipping app to even load, after
| which what I wanted to screenshot is probably gone. Open a tab
| in Explorer? Five seconds, during which individual parts of the
| UI update. Delete 50k files from some image analysis? That's
| gonna crash explorer.exe and take down the whole shell. I
| suppose they rewrote the Windows shell in React, and every
| basic interaction is a major undertaking. At home I have a 12
| year old PC, with Linux and the Gnome DE. It is absurd how much
| faster it is, everything is snappy and instantaneous. To me,
| there is nothing to fix in Windows 11 - they have failed
| horribly.
| labrador wrote:
| From my experience, a computer running that slowly is out of
| memory and hitting the swap file constantly. The tweaks I did
| are in settings. I turned off widgets, OneDrive and Ads. Also
| there have been comprehensive scripts for cleaning Windows 11
| shared here on Hacker News if you look for them.
| ThrowawayB7 wrote:
| > " _Do you think Windows OS is a profit center...?_ "
|
| The consumer editions are not all there is to Windows. Nearly
| every seat of Windows 11 Enterprise used in corporations is a
| paid license and there are a lot of corporations. Nearly every
| instance of Windows Server is a very expensive paid license and
| is required to run Active Directory, MS Exchange, SQL Server,
| etc.
| labrador wrote:
| I have no experience with Windows Server or Enterprise and
| don't know anyone who does. Forgive me for omitting
| "consumer" from my description. Yes, I mean consumer Windows.
| damion6 wrote:
| Use Rufus it'll disable hardware requirements, without hassle.
| You will need an iso. If you know someone with 11 have them
| download it. Otherwise download the generic.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| ...but then you have to use Windows 11...
| gchamonlive wrote:
| Or a Windows 10 installation that won't get security updates.
| I don't know which is worse.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Windows 10 can still get updates, for I don't remember how
| many years.
|
| It's a PITA it's not made more obvious, but there are free
| options, paid options (30$ a year if I remember well), all
| straight from Microsoft fully supported. Sailing the seven
| seas for a LTS if the other way.
| gchamonlive wrote:
| [delayed]
| adastra22 wrote:
| Had to scroll way too far down through windows gripes to find
| this, the real answer. Windows 11 will run just fine on your
| machine, OP. Just use Rufus and a USB stick to do the upgrade.
| gchamonlive wrote:
| It also lets you skip the first time install dialogue by
| setting defaults and add a local-only account. Rufus is the way
| to go about installing windows.
| throwaway613745 wrote:
| Ultimately, I didn't switch to Linux because I _wanted_ to. I
| switched to Linux because Microsoft became so actively hostile to
| me I felt like I didn 't have any other choice.
|
| No Microsoft, I'm not buying new hardware just to get the new OS.
| No, I'm not going to let you nag me every single day until I get
| pissed off enough to. No, I will not tolerate all the little
| things in your OS that piss me off everyday. Your software sucks.
| Your filesystem sucks. Your constant nagging sucks. I don't want
| your cloud TPM security bullshit and I DEFINITELY don't want
| Copilot or Recall.
|
| Seriously Microsoft: fuck you.
|
| Giving up being able to play certain games - which require me to
| install malware into my computer anyway - is a small price to pay
| to have my sanity and freedom back. I own my computer, not you.
| Goodbye and good riddance.
|
| I already used MacOS and Linux for work anyway. But don't worry
| Apple, you're riding that line pretty dangerously too - you're
| gonna be next on the chopping block if you don't get your act
| together. Framework Desktop is looking like a mighty capable
| replacement for my Mac Studio.
| canyp wrote:
| The most egregious thing in recent iterations of Win11 is that a
| fresh installation will basically map all of your home folder to
| OneDrive. My Documents, My Pictures, My Music, etc. A recent
| Windows update also told me that I _need_ OneDrive now to back up
| my files. Yup, apparently you really, really need it.
| __david__ wrote:
| Worse is that the notification for this "error" telling me I
| couldn't back up without OneDrive was behind the little dot in
| the restart/logout menu in the start menu, which (until now)
| only showed me that updates were required. Now that they've
| infested that notification with ads there's no reason for me to
| ever look at it again. Good job, Microsoft.
| matltc wrote:
| This threw me so hard when I grabbed a cheap laptop from Costco
| with win11 pre installed. I was saving files to
| c:/users/me/desktop and then when I opened Desktop in File
| Explorer, my shit was gone.
| Melatonic wrote:
| Switch to Win10 LTSC iOT if you want to keep getting security
| updates for many years
|
| Bonus is it strips out all the crap and is super fast
|
| Downside is a few specific pieces of software refuse to install
| (for no good technical reason). Adobe Photoshop for example
|
| There is also win11 LTSC iOT which I believe might actually
| install on older hardware that normal win11 will not (don't quote
| me on this)
| its-summertime wrote:
| I don't know how many years/months/days/hours the author is going
| to continue using Windows for, but this seems like a perfect task
| to be "resolved" by AHK, which is probably in the top 10 things
| Windows users have access to. Worth trying, at least before
| switching to another source of operating system.
| YY3427394872 wrote:
| I wonder how hard would it be to just switch back to Windows 7
| for these kinds of cases? Obviously the most ideal solution is to
| use Linux but there's still some edge cases where Windows is
| needed or is just preferred. If you install Windows 7 in a VM
| you'll be blown away by having a simple, clean OS that just runs
| applications and doesn't shove ads or Bing search into the start
| menu. And obviously it would be vulnerable to software exploits
| but if the device is mostly kept offline I can't see many issues
| with that coming up. Something to think about...
| born-jre wrote:
| I want to experiment with windows PE for that kind of use there
| used to be lite windows "distro" bashed on pe I used to love
| playing with
| sylens wrote:
| At a certain point you'll lose application support, including
| from the major browsers and other services like Steam
| matltc wrote:
| That's what you get for running Microsloth Windoze
|
| Seriously though, don't get why anyone would voluntarily use, let
| alone purchase, any windows distro.
| mistercheph wrote:
| Use Linux
| indubioprorubik wrote:
| Microsoft making advertisements for
| https://store.steampowered.com/steamos ?
| prinny_ wrote:
| I can only hope that this degradation of UX will make more people
| switch or consider switching to other distributions. It's the
| only thing that will make microsoft listen.
| bullen wrote:
| My old 6600 from 2016 is still running fine, I replaced the SSD
| (Intel 400GB to X25-E 64GB that will last 20 years minimum), the
| RAM (Micron to Samsung from aliexpress before the price hike...
| got 8 sticks of 16GB for $40 a pop for backup) and even the old
| trusty monitor (Both Eizo 5:4 matte VA; mercury tube to led, with
| f.lux/redshift the blue light is ok).
|
| But with a 3050 upgrade from the 1050 and later 1030 (best GPU
| for eternity if you discount VR) I had in it it's good for
| another decade. If a game comes out that does not run on it I
| wont play it... simple as that... 150W is enough. So far only
| PUBG stutters, what a joke of bloat and poor engineering that
| game has become...
|
| Win 10 improved NOTHING over 7. Win 11 improves NOTHING over 10.
|
| YMMV but recommendation is still: do not buy new X86 hardware; do
| not use new OS/languages.
|
| Build something good with what you have right now.
|
| Make it so good it's still in use after 100 years.
| some-guy wrote:
| > Win 10 improved NOTHING over 7. Win 11 improves NOTHING over
| 10.
|
| You had me up to this point. The problem is that there are
| actually quite a few improvements under the hood over those
| upgrade paths, but they are unfortunately hidden under all of
| the bullshit. I was an early adopter of Windows 11 specifically
| because of their efficiency core support over Windows 10 when I
| upgraded my CPU.
| bullen wrote:
| You need to look at the cost of improvements, and they
| overshadow all progress.
|
| I'm going linux with TWM (desktop with design look from the
| 70s) on ARM because M$ is clearly not thinking about the long
| perspective.
|
| We need a stable platform to build quality software.
|
| And that's saying alot seen how linux is deprecating libc
| after very short time and the legacy joystick API is not
| being compiled into modern kernels anymore.
|
| Stability is way more important than bells and whistles.
| Rohansi wrote:
| > _Win 10 improved NOTHING over 7_
|
| Windows 7 doesn't have compressed memory (ZRAM). Doesn't
| support TRIM for NVMe SSDs. Doesn't have WSL. Doesn't have ISO
| mounting built in. Doesn't have HDR, variable refresh rate,
| etc...
| bullen wrote:
| Are those really improvements though.
|
| RAM maybe wears quicker if compressed?
|
| NVMe will break long before a good old SATA drive.
|
| WSL... lol
|
| ISO you can do with daemon tools for free...
|
| Displays are good enough at 60Hz 5:4 matte.
| sys_64738 wrote:
| WSL is an excellent Micro-Soft technology.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| I have fedora xfce running beautifully on a 2011 i5 Mac mini.
| Replacing the hard disk with modern SSD was all it took to get
| it running at acceptable speeds where interacting with xfce is
| roughly instantaneous
| ethin wrote:
| I would happily switch to Linux, problem is it doesn't support
| the audio hardware I have. And although I've tried to figure out
| how the drivers get it working on Windows, I can't separate the
| wheat from the chaff in the 500+ USB packet dump Wireshark gives
| me :-( Otherwise I'd dump Windows and throw NixOS on this thing
| and stripe my two NVMes.
| beached_whale wrote:
| Microsoft with the push to require TPM 2.0, that isn't really
| required, is responsible for huge amounts of new e-waste. Any
| green initiative they claim is out the door.
| throw_m239339 wrote:
| It's an eco-disaster but on the other hand there is Linux... at
| some point people need to take a stand, especially given how
| crappy W11 is...
| zeppelin101 wrote:
| Just go with LTSC
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| Wasnt there a Google cross app logging framework and request
| tracking project 15 years ago?
|
| Did grafana die when I wasn't looking? Does datadog still make
| money?
|
| What's weird about this article is that it's the same thing being
| said 20 years ago. Is this a sign of people not learning from the
| better parts of Java deployment stacks?
| linguae wrote:
| I miss the days when personal computers were simply tools, akin
| to pencils and handheld calculators. I remember the days of
| Macintosh System 7 and Windows 95. No upselling services. No
| automatic updates. No nagging. You turned your computer on,
| executed programs, and that was it.
|
| On the Windows side, things started going downhill starting with
| the Windows XP era, and on the Mac the annoyances began sometime
| in the mid-2010s.
|
| It seems Microsoft, Apple, and other companies realized that
| they're leaving money on the table by not exploiting their
| platforms. Thus, they're no longer selling simple tools, but
| rather they are selling us services.
|
| Yes, there are good Linux distributions that don't annoy me, and
| the BSDs never nag me, but the problem with switching to these
| platforms is that I still need Microsoft Office and other
| proprietary software tools that are not available outside "Big
| Tech." There are other matters that make switching away from
| Windows and macOS challenging, such as hardware support and
| laptop battery life.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| What kills me is there seems to be no option for accounting
| that is acceptable to CPAs besides being held captive paying
| whatever QuickBooks cloud demands. It's not like dual entry
| accounting has changed much in 500 years. There are bank
| integrations and service contracts (notably Apple Card wasn't
| willing to pay licensing fees for the quickbooks file format,
| so you simply couldn't syncronize your accounts with your
| spending, instead falling back to manual import), but they
| would not make investors happy by merely offering bank
| connection services
|
| (God forbid banks be required by law to offer a web connector
| that allows you to request your own data. A workaround I've
| tried is to have my bank send me an email alert on every
| transaction over a penny, so at least I have a record, but
| never got around to setting up an auto import from my inbox)
| abe_m wrote:
| I've heard that many times, but the 3 accounting firms I've
| worked with for my business didn't care what accounting
| software I used. They were all happy to work with Gnucash so
| long as I could provide the needed reports, all of which were
| pre-configured in Gnucash. Two were small firms, but one was
| part of a major national accounting firm/franchise.
| stouset wrote:
| I too remember the days when every unpatched Windows PC was a
| member of a botnet. Perhaps less fondly than you.
|
| And thankfully this was before a time when everyone's computers
| and phones had access to their bank accounts, credit cards, and
| before email was the gateway to virtually your entire life.
| jagoff wrote:
| Hogwash, nonsense, and FUD. I recall actively attempting to
| infect an unpatched, fresh windows xp machine back in college
| as part of an assignment in infosec to specifically infect a
| vm for study. None of us were able to infect our machines
| during the single session we had to do it in. Your anecdote
| is just as meaningful as mine.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > I miss the days when personal computers were simply tools,
| akin to pencils and handheld calculators.
|
| > System 7 and Windows 95
|
| If Windows 95 was the complexity level of a pencil to you, Win
| 10/11 is merely a color pencil. You should be fine getting rid
| of the nagging and adapting it to your needs, it hasn't become
| 10x or 100x more complex, merely incrementally more.
|
| > Microsoft [...] not exploiting their platforms.
|
| That's a phrase I didn't expect. What part of Microsoft do you
| feel was leaving money on the table, as they were sued by
| basically the whole globefor their business practices ?
| isolatedsystem wrote:
| Easy answer to your last point: Work machine and Non-work
| machine. If I'm working for a company and the company needs MS
| Office, they will give me a machine with MS Office. I will
| treat that machine like a radioactive zone. Full Hazmat suit.
| Not a shred of personal interaction with that machine. It
| exists only to do work on and that's that. The company can take
| care of keeping it up to date, and the company's IT department
| can do the bending over the table on my behest as MS approaches
| with dildos marked "Copilot" or "Recall" or "Cortana" or "React
| Native Start Menu" or "OneDrive" or whatever.
|
| Meanwhile, my personal machine continues to be Linux.
|
| This is what I'm doing at my work now. I'm lucky enough to have
| two computers, a desktop PC that runs Linux, and a laptop with
| Windows 11. I do not use that laptop unless I have to deal with
| xlsx, pptx or docx files. Life is so much better.
| jokoon wrote:
| I suspect there are cybersecurity stakes regarding win11 and
| win10, but I am not entirely sure.
|
| I think that the spectre mitigation are not a problem in win11
| because win11 is not supported on CPU that are vulnerable, which
| might be a reason they encourage people to get win11 and get a
| new PC, but that's an unverified guess, I am just trying to get
| them the benefit of the doubt.
|
| SteamOS looks like it might take a lot of the windows cake, but
| it remains to be seen if they will be able to.
|
| So far it doesn't look like SteamOS supports most of PC hardware
| out there, but it could be a next step for Valve.
| AndyKelley wrote:
| 2026 will be Year of the Linux Desktop, at least for Mr. Diallo!
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-12-21 23:00 UTC)