[HN Gopher] Isengard in Oxford
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Isengard in Oxford
Author : lermontov
Score : 105 points
Date : 2025-12-21 05:42 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (lareviewofbooks.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (lareviewofbooks.org)
| delichon wrote:
| If we took all of the recorded works of this man who hated the
| automobile, train an LLM from them, and ask it what it thought of
| AI, the result would be obscene twice. Once for the project
| itself and once for the sentiments it would express. If it chose
| a metaphor from middle earth it would probably be a _palantir_ ,
| and would not appreciate the joke of having become one.
| TRiG_Ireland wrote:
| And yet he owned a motor car, and enjoyed fast driving. Humans
| are complex.
| ionwake wrote:
| well he probably had a problem with cars around the
| university. Ive lived there and the traffic with cars is
| basically horrendous, for a small university town ( and Ive
| lived in Birmingham and London very crowded places). Finally
| after a century they have made big changes to reduce traffic.
|
| Its such a problem that if you investigate cycling deaths,
| the biggest hotspot is literally a roundabout in the center
| of Oxford outside a college. By hotspot I mean , its
| literally the number one most dangerous location ( about a 10
| meter stretch) for cyclists in about a 50 mile radius. I
| discovered this one day just doing some random research on my
| own.
|
| Also unfortunately I know someone whose girlfriend got killed
| near that same roundabout.
|
| I dont even think its common knowledge, other than "watch the
| traffic".
|
| Its actually quite shocking they even allowed the traffic to
| get that bad, it is after all "meant" to be the brightest
| minds in the country ( or was at some point).
| lordnacho wrote:
| Is it the one by Magdalen/Hilda's?
| Doctor_Fegg wrote:
| Yes.
| PunchyHamster wrote:
| What they were supposed to do, stop people from moving in ?
|
| It's generally hard for any existing city (especially if it
| is older one with narrow streets) to transform
| communication, from cost to having to displace citizens in
| worst case.
| BoxOfRain wrote:
| I know the very roundabout you mean without having to look
| it up, I used to cycle in Oxford very often and while I'm
| sure there's a tendency on the internet to underrate
| locals' stories as hyperbolic, it really can't be stressed
| enough how hazardous this particular feature of civil
| engineering is.
| Doctor_Fegg wrote:
| Not mentioned in this review is that the scheme to reduce
| Oxford's traffic actually took effect in October:
| https://oxfordclarion.uk/clarion-weekly-31-october-ghost-edi...
|
| So far it seems to be making a noticeable, albeit modest
| difference. Traffic in the city centre is clearly reduced. Buses
| are no longer queueing for ages at the Plain (the notorious
| roundabout that connects East Oxford to the city centre) - in
| fact, bus journey times are improved throughout. There are some
| knock-on effects, particularly in North Oxford in the evening
| peak, but generally it's working well. Footfall in the city
| centre remains high according to official figures, and certainly
| it was pretty rammed yesterday when I was doing my Christmas
| shopping.
|
| It's only the third congestion charge to have been implemented in
| the UK, after London and Durham. (The Oxford scheme thus far is a
| slightly watered-down version of the full "traffic filters"
| mentioned in the review, because of the overrunning closure of
| the bridge by the railway station which cuts off one of the main
| routes into Oxford.)
|
| So Tolkien was right. Ignore the conspiracy theorists. Have
| courage and fight back. Cars in historic city centres like Oxford
| are not something we have to just accept.
| notahacker wrote:
| The bridge closure is such a big impediment to travel into
| Oxford I haven't even bothered applying for the residents'
| permit...
|
| Congestion charge is only ever going to be a minor
| inconvenience to Oxford city centre visitors since it's already
| inconvenient to drive in and driving has very little benefit
| considering it's very small, doesn't sell much in the way of
| bulky items and has a decent bus service to the suburbs and
| park and ride.
| lelanthran wrote:
| Link doesn't seem to have a link to the text; I'd love to read
| it.
| cgh wrote:
| It's available for purchase from multiple sellers, from
| bookshop.org to Amazon.
| gotezk wrote:
| Have to hand it to the author of that article. It is really
| nicely written for what it is and doesn't get in its own way.
| Learned lots of new things. Would be intrigued to hear what
| exactly happened to Christopher Tolkien and being silenced/pushed
| aside.
| KineticLensman wrote:
| Well Christopher Tolkien was 'silenced' by the fact of his
| dying at the age of 95.
|
| The article in my opinion unnecessarily links JRR Tolkien's
| views on the monstrosity of cars with the much later conspiracy
| theory that car-free zones are an attempt by the UN to limit
| personal freedoms. TFA does itself make clear that there wasn't
| a connection but if it was me I wouldn't have mentioned it in
| the first place, when there is so much more interesting to say
| about Tolkien's own views on modernism.
| yoan9224 wrote:
| Tolkien's hatred of automobiles and industrialization permeates
| all his work, but I'd never read about his specific activism
| against Oxford's road-building schemes.
|
| The irony is that Oxford now has one of the most restrictive
| traffic policies in the UK (congestion charging, traffic filters)
| and it's working quite well. Buses are faster, footfall is up,
| and the city center is more pleasant.
|
| Cars in dense historic city centers really don't make sense. They
| take up enormous space for parking, create noise and pollution,
| and are slower than walking or cycling for most trips within city
| limits.
|
| Would be interesting to see what Tolkien would think of modern
| urbanism movements. Feels very aligned with his values.
| retrac wrote:
| > Would be interesting to see what Tolkien would think of
| modern urbanism movements. Feels very aligned with his values.
|
| Still much too dense.
|
| There was a movement, broadly contemporary with Tolkien, that
| somewhat reflect his views on this topic. The push at end of
| the late 19th century in the UK to create "garden cities". They
| were the first modern planned cities. Supposed to be
| communities of several tens of thousands, fully walkable, with
| industry and large ugly infrastructure hidden out of sight
| behind greenbelts.
|
| They wouldn't really be built in that manner until after World
| War II and by then were much more car-centric.
|
| I anticipate some skepticism on Tolkien's part about the
| basically progressive nature of the whole scheme. I think
| Tolkien was skeptical about the basic concept of social
| progress. His whole generation was. The War sort of ruined any
| hope of progress. He hated industrialization for a much deeper
| reason than just the automobile. The influence of the war on
| his anti-industrial and social views is hard to overstate:
|
| > Here nothing lived, not even the leprous growths that feed on
| rottenness. The gasping pools were choked with ash and crawling
| muds, sickly white and grey, as if the mountains had vomited
| the filth of their entrails upon the lands about,
|
| That is surely from his memory, lifted directly from the
| Western Front.
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