[HN Gopher] Benn Jordan's flock camera jammer will send you to j...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Benn Jordan's flock camera jammer will send you to jail in Florida
       now [video]
        
       Author : givemeethekeys
       Score  : 140 points
       Date   : 2025-12-12 18:58 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | Noaidi wrote:
       | It is time to start asking ourselves, in all seriousness; "What
       | would you do right now if you knew that fascists were coming."
       | 
       | Because it is so obvious that they are coming.
        
         | yfw wrote:
         | Theyre already here and affecting some groups. Just ask how
         | privileged you are before youre next on the list
        
           | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
           | "Fascism, like the future, is already here, it's just
           | unevenly distributed".
        
             | metalman wrote:
             | "Fascism, like the future, is already here, it's just
             | unevenly distributed".
             | 
             | SNAP!
        
           | Noaidi wrote:
           | I agree, but I was trying not to be so "controversial" but I
           | see that did not help. Someone already thinks all of this is
           | fine and not authoritarian without providing me with an
           | explanation.
           | 
           | Forums will make fun of you for saying that Nazi's are here
           | until they are surrounded by Nazis wondering what happened.
        
         | honeycrispy wrote:
         | Michigan recently introduced a "save the children" bill that
         | would ban VPNs in an act titled "anticorruption of public
         | morals".
         | 
         | https://legislature.mi.gov/Bills/Bill?ObjectName=2025-HB-493...
        
         | metalcrow wrote:
         | Buy a gun, and learn how to use it. This is good advice even if
         | you don't believe it's necessary.
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | Find like minded people you can trust and know who will have
           | whose back if something really goes wrong. Also have a
           | passport and some cash, crypto and/or jewelry to get you out
           | if this goes too far.
        
             | LgWoodenBadger wrote:
             | As if passports can't be revoked electronically now
        
           | rationalist wrote:
           | Even if you don't like guns and don't want to own one, you
           | should know how they work and how they are used properly.
           | 
           | Kids used to be taught gun safety in public school. Public
           | schools used to have indoor ranges (I've seen one with my own
           | eyes).
           | 
           | When someone learns gun safety, they are less likely to
           | accidentally shoot themselves or someone else if they come
           | across one.
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | How could that help? The fascists have bigger guns and more
           | brownshirts.
           | 
           | If you survive the initial encounter, you're on the run and
           | an enemy of the state?
        
             | honeycrispy wrote:
             | There was a protest against the election in Tanzania on
             | October 29th where the police were ordered to gun down the
             | protesters, this is a country that has strict gun laws.
             | Hundreds died.
             | 
             | One of the reasons that doesn't happen in America is
             | because the protestors would promptly shoot back and there
             | would be a rapid formation of a militia. Hard to do that
             | when you don't have guns.
        
         | willis936 wrote:
         | Make a bug out plan. Assume roads and cars are not an option.
         | Assume you will be able to claim political asylum in another
         | nation. Pack a bag.
        
           | ericmcer wrote:
           | What nation? All the "democratic" western nations are moving
           | in this direction.
        
             | willis936 wrote:
             | This is a survivalist exercise. You're not going to fix the
             | world's problems while trying to avoid being put into a
             | labor camp.
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | > _Assume roads and cars are not an option_
           | 
           | Walk to Canada? That works from some areas.
        
             | willis936 wrote:
             | Yes. Or Mexico. It's a longer walk for some more than
             | others, but almost all of the political targets live near
             | coastal cities that are within a month of a border. This
             | would not be a trivial journey, but it would also not be
             | insurmountable for many determined people. Survival ends up
             | being a strong motivator.
        
         | alistairSH wrote:
         | Asked and answered. We, collectively, elected Trump a second
         | time and left a GOP majority in Congress.
        
         | phendrenad2 wrote:
         | Institutionalized racism. Police immune to prosecution.
         | Government-backed monopolies. Oligarchy based on proximity to
         | the supreme. Scapegoating various classes of people. False
         | flags. Surveillance economy. Seems to me that whatever we have
         | now is functionally indistinct from fascism. But if it makes
         | you feel better to keep calling it democracy...
        
         | Scubabear68 wrote:
         | Wherever Robert Heinlein is right now, he is shaking his head
         | sadly. Told ya so......
        
       | gruez wrote:
       | 1. I highly doubt the adversarial image generated by Jordan
       | actually works in practice, especially since it needs to be fined
       | tuned for a specific model, not to mention that different
       | angles/noise will probably break it even more
       | 
       | 2. Louis tries to defend whatever Ben's doing by saying that it's
       | basically like random specks of mud or bird shit, but he doesn't
       | seem to realize that intent is a thing. Having random specks on
       | your license plate isn't going to send you to jail, but if it's
       | obvious that you intentionally crafted the specks to defeat the
       | ANPR, that's a whole different thing entirely, even if they
       | vaguely look the same.
       | 
       | 3. As much as I don't like ANPR networks or government
       | surveillance, haven't courts consistently ruled that drivers have
       | less rights (ie. "driving is a privilege, not a right")? For
       | instance, the constitution guarantees free movement, but you need
       | a drivers license to drive and police can ask for your license
       | without probable cause. You also can't refuse a blood alcohol
       | test while driving.
        
         | Noaidi wrote:
         | > but he doesn't seem to realize that intent is a thing.
         | 
         | He does realize this. The problem is the police can make up
         | intent just to mess with people. How easy is it fro the cops to
         | say "You purposely splattered mud on you license plate" and
         | fine you or put you in jail. Or even use it as an excuse to
         | pull you over.
         | 
         | > haven't courts consistently ruled that drivers have less
         | rights
         | 
         | This is not about the right to drive. This is about a database
         | of collected data on you that can be searched by anyone.
         | ANYONE.
        
           | try_the_bass wrote:
           | > This is about a database of collected data on you that can
           | be searched by anyone. ANYONE.
           | 
           | Except this part isn't true?
        
             | Noaidi wrote:
             | Anyone, by that I mean anyone that matters, or a very large
             | group of people that you should be afraid of to have this
             | power. I mean, excuse my hyperbole, but is this not enough?
             | 
             | Like an ex boyfriend: https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-
             | government/article29105...
             | 
             | Or the Feds: https://centralcurrent.org/federal-
             | immigration-agents-access...
             | 
             | Or a cop anywhere: https://data.aclum.org/2025/10/07/flock-
             | gives-law-enforcemen...
             | 
             | https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/11/how-cops-are-using-
             | flo...
             | 
             | https://atlpresscollective.com/2025/11/13/atlanta-police-
             | flo...
        
               | try_the_bass wrote:
               | Seems like you're more moving the goalposts away from
               | your original, inaccurate, and highly sensational claim?
               | 
               | Maybe don't make the blatantly false claim in the first
               | place?
        
             | gunalx wrote:
             | It was at least, because of shitty security practices.
        
             | sallveburrpi wrote:
             | I think he didn't mean that say "everyone" but rather
             | "anyone who is some random person working for this private
             | company or the cops or the government or whoever they
             | inevitably sell this data to/gets access to the data when
             | it inevitably leaks through some random unsecured s3
             | bucket"
        
               | try_the_bass wrote:
               | If that's not what he meant, then maybe he shouldn't have
               | said "anyone" twice? With the caps for emphasis, even.
        
             | rationalist wrote:
             | The data is available by FOIA.
        
               | try_the_bass wrote:
               | Is it? I thought only searches of the database were
               | available that way? Like, the history of queries, not the
               | raw data.
               | 
               | I don't think FOIA requests can be used to run your own
               | searches of these databases.
        
               | rationalist wrote:
               | Submit a FOIA for a specific area and time, and you can
               | get all of the raw data for that, then you can do your
               | own searches. You generally cannot submit a FOIA for
               | _all_ of the data.
        
               | try_the_bass wrote:
               | I don't think this is true. Do you have some sources for
               | this?
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | Journalists do this all the time. We used to get big
               | 9-track reels of data where I worked.
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | > The problem is the police can make up intent just to mess
           | with people. How easy is it fro the cops to say "You
           | purposely splattered mud on you license plate" and fine you
           | or put you in jail. Or even use it as an excuse to pull you
           | over.
           | 
           | That's not the problem. The fact that intent is considered by
           | the law is a _good_ thing, because it allows you to use the
           | defence  "I didn't intend for the mud to obscure the number".
           | Without that, the cops can just say "there _is_ mud on your
           | license plate " and you have no recourse.
        
             | Workaccount2 wrote:
             | Unfortunately you are responsible for making sure your
             | plates are clearly visible while driving. Mud doesn't
             | easily coat your plate to the point of obscurity, you
             | either were driving in lots of heavy mud (clean off car
             | before going back on public roads) or haven't cleaned
             | accumulated mud off in a while (not adhering to making sure
             | your car is road legal).
             | 
             | Negligence will still get you in trouble.
        
               | IshKebab wrote:
               | Yes, but it will usually get you into _less_ trouble than
               | if you did it deliberately. That 's why almost every
               | jurisdiction has a distinction between murder and
               | manslaughter (and often first and second degree murder).
               | There isn't just a "caused someone else to die" crime and
               | everyone that does that gets exactly the same punishment.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >He does realize this. The problem is the police can make up
           | intent just to mess with people. How easy is it fro the cops
           | to say "You purposely splattered mud on you license plate"
           | and fine you or put you in jail. Or even use it as an excuse
           | to pull you over.
           | 
           | Except in this case, it'll be pretty obvious that you used a
           | carefully crafted pattern, because it's a custom printed
           | license plate rather the state manufactured one. Moreover, of
           | the list of plausible excuses capricious cops can use to
           | arrest/ticket you, this is pretty near the bottom. Something
           | vague like "speeding" or obstructing traffic (for driving at
           | or below the speed limit, since most people speed) already
           | exists, for instance.
           | 
           | >This is not about the right to drive. This is about a
           | database of collected data on you that can be searched by
           | anyone. ANYONE.
           | 
           | My point is that the courts (and to some extent, the public)
           | have generally accepted that you have less rights while
           | driving, so it's going to be an uphill battle. This is in
           | spite of the fact that I oppose ANPRs.
        
           | nkrisc wrote:
           | Driving is a privilege, not a right.
        
             | gleenn wrote:
             | Same with flying they say. But how free are you if the
             | government snaps its fingers and removes every reasonable
             | mode of transportation unless you sacrifice your privacy?
             | The cameras (which are 100% opt-out by the way, tell them
             | NO) in airports are rammed down are throats as well. How am
             | I supposed to privately move?
        
               | nkrisc wrote:
               | Congress could fix that. It could even be enshrined in
               | the constitution. Maybe we should vote for people who
               | would do that.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | Around here, folks wipe off the paint from their license plates
         | with paint thinner. The plate still has the number, but an ALPR
         | won't be able to read it.
         | 
         | I'm told the reason is so that they don't have to pay bridge
         | tolls (which are quite high).
         | 
         | It's illegal, but I see cars with bare-metal license plates,
         | all the time.
        
           | Interesco wrote:
           | (Assuming this is NY) Worth noting that NY license plates had
           | a defect that caused the paint to delaminate [1]. I am not
           | surprised that people intentionally do it, but this
           | delamination used to be extremely common.
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.syracuse.com/news/2019/08/new-york-ends-
           | contract...
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | This happened in West Virginia. But according to the
             | newspapers, it was because the prison inmates were peeing
             | in the license plate paint.
             | 
             | This was pre-public internet, so no link that I could find.
        
             | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
             | That makes sense.
             | 
             | I suspect it gives cover for the ones that do it on
             | purpose.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | If the plate is visible and clearly readable to a human but not
         | readable by a machine has the law been violated? In my state
         | there is no law that requires that my license plate be viewable
         | by ALPRs so long as it's in plain view to a human observer.
         | 
         | The software isn't a person and so I think there's a real
         | question as to whether or not you can even say the license
         | plate isn't visible to it because the software doesn't have
         | eyes it can't observe anything, that's just our way of
         | conceptualizing what it's doing. And I don't think this is
         | theoretical because this idea that the machine isn't a person
         | is argued by the state for why dragnet surveillance isn't a
         | search until a human actually goes and looks at it.
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | > but not readable by a machine has the law been violated
           | 
           | IANAL but I think that would be a violation, since it falls
           | under the "detectability" of a "feature" being "recorded".
           | 
           | > A person may not apply or attach [...] onto or around [...]
           | which interferes with the legibility, angular visibility, or
           | detectability of any feature or detail on the license plate
           | or interferes with the ability to record any feature or
           | detail on the license plate. A person who knowingly violates
           | this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree.
           | 
           | https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/253/?Tab=BillText
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | > he doesn't seem to realize that intent is a thing
         | 
         | A bit of silver lining is that the law does require intent,
         | which was a pleasant surprise since it reduces how easily a bad
         | official could weaponize the law against an innocent person.
         | 
         | > A person who _knowingly_ violates this section commits a
         | misdemeanor of the second degree
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/253/?Tab=BillText
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | > _A person who knowingly violates_
           | 
           | Is there a legal specification of "knowingly" that requires
           | intent? Or is "awareness" adequate?
           | 
           | E.g. If you know (or would be reasonably expected to know)
           | that your license plate was obscured by mud from your
           | offroading adventures, does this verbiage apply to you?
        
         | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
         | Just because you're a driver doesn't mean you get less rights.
         | It means you implicitly consent to the laws covering driving.
         | One such law that (thankfully) still protects drivers? No
         | searching and seizing items from a vehicle without probable
         | cause. You have the right to privacy in your vehicle, with this
         | caveat: they can't search for just any reason, and they're not
         | allowed to search random people. It has to be a specific
         | person, with probable cause of a specific crime.
         | 
         | It's illegal for the cops to put a GPS tracker on your car to
         | track your movements without a signed search warrant. But it's
         | legal for them to place so many cameras that they can do the
         | same thing with no warrant? Bullshit. Recording every single
         | license plate and its movements in perpetuity constitutes a
         | search of random people with no cause. Searching for your
         | specific movements constitutes a search, and therefore must
         | require probable cause or a warrant.
         | 
         | But the law doesn't protect us from this yet, because it's
         | relatively new. When new technology comes out that current laws
         | don't cover, the police abuse it. It's up to us to demand the
         | laws be updated to protect us from this abuse.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >It's illegal for the cops to put a GPS tracker on your car
           | to track your movements without a signed search warrant. But
           | it's legal for them to place so many cameras that they can do
           | the same thing with no warrant? Bullshit.
           | 
           | It's not any "bullshit" then the fact that police don't need
           | a warrant to follow you. It might be tempting to report with
           | some variant of the "2nd amendment was only intended for
           | muskets" argument, pointing out that the founding fathers
           | never imagined a cop at every street corner, but then you
           | have to deal with all the associated implications. For
           | instance, does that mean first amendment protections don't
           | extend to the internet?
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | No. The law doesn't prohibit it because it's simply automated
           | gathering of information they could gather anyway. It becomes
           | illegal when the police use technology to bypass barriers
           | (for example, seeing your weed from a drone), but not when
           | they simply use technology to automate handling with what
           | they can see.
        
       | programmertote wrote:
       | I generally don't like the idea of relying on one private company
       | to track private individual citizens' movement. So, I have an
       | issue with this punishment (although I see that allowing that
       | would also make it harder for automated toll charging systems to
       | collect tolls).
       | 
       | On a related note, when I lived in FL, I often saw cars with this
       | opaque plastic cover on number plates. I think these are
       | installed by the drivers so that they can avoid paying road toll
       | (FL has many road tolls). I also noticed that these drivers tend
       | to be more aggressive in driving than others (that's how I
       | noticed their license plates are covered). Will the same
       | punishment be applied to those drivers?
        
         | try_the_bass wrote:
         | > On a related note, when I lived in FL, I often saw cars with
         | this opaque plastic cover on number plates. I think these are
         | installed by the drivers so that they can avoid paying road
         | toll (FL has many road tolls). I also noticed that these
         | drivers tend to be more aggressive in driving than others
         | (that's how I noticed their license plates are covered).
         | 
         | I've noticed the same thing in my area of CA. Lots of folks
         | with different devices to obscure their plates, and a strong
         | correlation between the obscured plates and very poor or
         | aggressive driving.
         | 
         | I've started to quip that the obscured plates + tinted windows
         | + blacked-out taillights is the "frequent moving violation
         | starter kit".
         | 
         | Or "tell me you violate the rules of the road without telling
         | me you violate the rules of the road".
         | 
         | > Will the same punishment be applied to those drivers?
         | 
         | One could imagine that's actually the targeted demographic, and
         | not the subset of folks trying to circumvent Flock cameras.
        
           | OptionOfT wrote:
           | I see these plastic covers a lot. Especially here in AZ they
           | get UV damaged fast which makes them opaque.
           | 
           | And the more and more I want one. Not to drive like an ass. I
           | don't. I just want to drive around without being tracked.
        
             | try_the_bass wrote:
             | > Not to drive like an ass. I don't.
             | 
             | Color me skeptical
        
               | OptionOfT wrote:
               | This is the physical manifestation of "I've got nothing
               | to hide, so you can track me".
        
         | deltoidmaximus wrote:
         | Once I started looking for the plastic plate covers I was
         | actually shocked how common they are. Of course enforcement is
         | so lax these days many people seem to be using a paper
         | temporary plate that they printed out. No word on how many of
         | those are even real, I can't even read the numbers on them
         | through the window.
        
           | fullstop wrote:
           | Did you see the one which used an electromagnet to hold fake
           | leaves in place? If they got pulled over, they could push a
           | button which would allow the leaves to fall off.
        
             | anonymars wrote:
             | Need I remind you, 007, that you have a licence to kill,
             | not to break the traffic laws
        
             | nine_k wrote:
             | Leaves are not ferromagnetic, so they won't stick to an
             | electromagnet. A few small holes with a small pump that
             | constantly sucks the air from them would help stick a real,
             | unmodified leaf to the surface. and release it at will.
             | This would require tampering with the license plate, even
             | though in a very minor way.
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | _Leaves are not ferromagnetic_
               | 
               | Fake leaves, as OP said, probably are.
               | 
               | https://fallplate.com/en/product/fallplate-kit/
        
           | tbyehl wrote:
           | In my town some of the police cars have darkly tinted plate
           | covers.
        
         | saxonww wrote:
         | The opaque covers (and essentially all license plate
         | decorations, frames, covers, etc.) are illegal as of October 1
         | in Florida. I believe initially the plan is stop-and-educate,
         | but the law provides for a $500 fine and up to 60 days jail
         | time for obscuring your license plate.
        
           | almosthere wrote:
           | It is weird to me that we got to a point where we are being
           | literal about the law again, instead of the spirit.
           | 
           | I guess laws should no longer say:
           | 
           | A license plate should be attached to a car.
           | 
           | Instead it should say:
           | 
           | All vehicles that don't display their license plate for
           | cameras of any kind are illegal, the spirit of this law is to
           | make it so we can identify through the number assigned to the
           | vehicle from the state that identifies it is obvious if a
           | picture is taken of the vehicle from the front or the back.
           | 
           | Better yet, judges and legal experts should just stop playing
           | these games with words and figure out a new way to make
           | things that are supposed to be legal, legal.
        
             | gorgoiler wrote:
             | As aomeone much funnier than me once said, there's nothing
             | more uniquely American than the ability -- nay, the right!
             | -- to _get off on a technicality_.
        
               | Terr_ wrote:
               | Some escape on a technicality and some are doomed on a
               | technicality, and unfortunately the difference depends on
               | how rich and connected you are.
               | 
               | Still, this is arguably a step up from _not needing_ any
               | technicalities at all to get the same result.
        
               | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
               | Yeah. People getting off on technicalities is the reason
               | legalese exists.
        
             | michaelt wrote:
             | _> All vehicles that don 't display their license plate for
             | cameras of any kind are illegal, the spirit of this law is
             | to make it so we can identify through the number assigned
             | to the vehicle from the state that identifies it is obvious
             | if a picture is taken of the vehicle from the front or the
             | back._
             | 
             | Quarter inch high license plates are now legal. It's hardly
             | the motorist's fault if the camera is too low resolution :)
             | 
             | Regular license plates are illegal, because they're
             | unreadable to a type of camera - thermal cameras :)
        
             | buran77 wrote:
             | > It is weird to me that we got to a point where we are
             | being literal about the law again, instead of the spirit.
             | 
             | The "spirit" of any law requiring license plates on
             | vehicles is that the license plate can be read under normal
             | conditions. The letter of the law may have been more
             | generic, although many countries define very precisely
             | everything about the plate, its condition and legibility.
             | So demanding visible plates is exactly in the spirit of the
             | law. What's the point of a license plate that nobody can
             | read?
             | 
             | People exploited the letter of the law by having a license
             | that was illegible somehow. Covered, faded writing, flipped
             | under the motorcycle seat, etc.
             | 
             | > vehicles that don't display their license plate for
             | cameras of any kind are illegal
             | 
             | License plates predate traffic cameras and the requirement
             | for readable plates has been in force in many countries
             | since for almost all that time. The license needs to be
             | visible first and foremost so humans can easily identify a
             | car. It can be police or a witness when someone runs you
             | over.
             | 
             | Cameras automate this so they make abuse far easier. But
             | the need was always there for various legitimate reasons.
             | 
             | Almost no law would survive if everyone was allowed to just
             | take some literal interpretation of their own choice. The
             | attitude that "well technically the law says" is usually
             | shot down by any judge for good reason. Someone could have
             | a lot of fun with your right to "bear arms".
        
             | loeg wrote:
             | License plates have always been required to be legible;
             | that's the whole point. Obscuring them is clearly against
             | the spirit of the law, whether or not that particular
             | method is specifically codified.
        
               | LorenPechtel wrote:
               | Yeah. License plate frames started out with a legitimate
               | purpose--plates bend a lot more easily than plates in
               | frames. But they've gotten crazy.
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | imthinking of a shell game -sort of.
           | 
           | dont obstruct the plate, obfusicate it with bumperstickers
           | that have license plate like fonts, but are clearly not
           | plates to human perceptions.
        
         | wingspar wrote:
         | Those covers in FL are now fully illegal (Oct 1) along with
         | most license plate frames.
         | 
         | Have a friend who got pulled over recently and given a warning
         | for the clear cover on his plate. Apparently, they can be a
         | felony in some cases.
         | 
         | I recall on an old Top Gear episode years ago, in the UK,
         | people were selling mud in a spray can. You apparently sprayed
         | the mud up the bumper and across the plate so it looks like
         | it's just slung mud, but it just so happens to block the plate.
         | Plausible deniability in a can...
        
           | snypher wrote:
           | Sorry for the terrible source, but I always admired the
           | tactical leaf;
           | 
           | https://nypost.com/2022/11/26/unbe-leaf-able-scofflaws-
           | dodge...
        
           | jjkaczor wrote:
           | Just don't keep the can in your boot, uh I mean trunk -
           | plausible deniability would go-out-the-window...
        
             | woah wrote:
             | Just use natural mud
        
             | tclancy wrote:
             | Can I hide it in a boot in a trunk in the frunk?
        
         | tehwebguy wrote:
         | > On a related note, when I lived in FL, I often saw cars with
         | this opaque plastic cover on number plates.
         | 
         | Daily Show segment on a guy who "uncovers" these in NY
         | including cops' personal vehicles:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1J5nuA1QNs
        
       | opengrass wrote:
       | It's a payday for ride share companies.
        
       | greyface- wrote:
       | The time is ripe for ALPR-based sousveillance. If these types of
       | countermeasures are outlawed, legislators and police could use a
       | reminder that the legal principle that enables Flock imperils
       | their privacy just as much as ours.
        
         | Noaidi wrote:
         | Flock does not just read license plates, it makes a fingerprint
         | of your car. This is far beyond ALPR.
        
           | phil21 wrote:
           | What does this mean exactly? Pretty much any reasonably
           | modern ALPR system also records make/model/type/color of
           | vehicle along with the plate reading these days. Obviously
           | some are better at this than others, but even my Unifi
           | cameras do this these days.
           | 
           | The "secret sauce" of Flock is the extensive nature of the
           | camera network and database correlation.
        
             | nickthegreek wrote:
             | Directly from the serpent's mouth:
             | 
             | "No more gaps - just evidence.
             | 
             | A license plate is just a start. Flock's Vehicle
             | Fingerprint(r) tech turns footage into evidence that solves
             | cases by pinpointing vehicles by make, color, type, and
             | unique characteristics like decals, bumper stickers, and
             | accessories. This capability proved to be instrumental in a
             | recent case in Catoosa, OK where police were able to track
             | down the suspect connected to a mass murder after their
             | vehicle was spotted by a Flock camera."
             | 
             | https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/6-benefits-of-lpr-for-
             | law-e...
        
               | lisbbb wrote:
               | So we need color changing cars and we need to make
               | changes to stickers, wheels, and accessories more
               | frequently. It will be like the characters in cyberpunk
               | novels with the odd face paint and stickers that they can
               | change so as to frustrate facial recognition.
        
               | nickthegreek wrote:
               | magnetic bumper stickers are the way to go.
        
             | FireBeyond wrote:
             | Color, make, model, body damage, panels that are a
             | different color to the rest of the body, wheels, decals,
             | bumper stickers, tow hitches, roof racks, etc., so even if
             | they can't read your plate they can try to build a vehicle
             | identity, and when they do get a plate capture, they can
             | retroactively apply that to all other sightings of the
             | vehicle.
        
           | tamimio wrote:
           | Yep, I have seen it used IDing cars without plates
        
       | websiteapi wrote:
       | Is this any surprise. Messing up other peoples stuff generally is
       | a crime.
        
         | gs17 wrote:
         | > Messing up other peoples stuff
         | 
         | The "jammer" is an adversarial pattern applied to the plate.
         | The cameras are undamaged by it.
        
           | websiteapi wrote:
           | Not relevant. Does it stop legitimate use cases like toll
           | roads which use the same underlying tech?
           | 
           | Also, from the video the license plate is modified, which is
           | illegal - it's like modding your passport. As the video
           | states...
        
       | Shalomboy wrote:
       | I would very much like to leave the "free state of Florida". All
       | of the benefits of living here that I grew up knowing by heart no
       | longer exist and the state government's only concern seems to be
       | punishing people for wrongthink. It isn't cheap to lease or buy
       | property anywhere near a metro area, the coral reefs and sponge
       | beds have mostly disappeared, the beautiful wildlife in our state
       | parks has been curtailed by constant wildfires, and the schools
       | have atrophied to a shell of their former selves. What's the
       | point of living here anymore, or raising my kids here?
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | I hear Austin, TX is the bees knees
         | 
         | definitely avoid CA
        
           | beepbooptheory wrote:
           | Why leave Florida just to move to Texas?
        
             | mbg721 wrote:
             | Texas can be pricey, but it has huge and diverse growing
             | urban areas with a lot of job opportunities, where
             | someplace like Miami is really cutthroat and _very_
             | expensive.
             | 
             | Or you'd move if you like Mexican food more than Cuban and
             | South American food.
        
           | wnevets wrote:
           | > I hear Austin, TX is the bees knees
           | 
           | Talk about a lateral move.
        
           | Shalomboy wrote:
           | Austin is alluring, but I can't seem to get my foot in the
           | door at any of the big chipmakers in town. Not to be snarky,
           | but I already have enough problems with power outages during
           | hurricane season - ERCOT doesn't inspire much more
           | confidence.
        
         | lisbbb wrote:
         | The schools were ever good? FL, and the entire US south, for
         | that matter, have a long track record of poor K-12 performance.
        
           | websiteapi wrote:
           | A very common trope but performance basically is the same
           | when you normalize for socioeconomics
        
       | nullbyte808 wrote:
       | Simple solution, ditch your car.
        
         | munificent wrote:
         | It's very hard to be a functioning member of society in Florida
         | without a car.
         | 
         | Public transit is minimal, everything is spread out, 8 months
         | of the year are extremely hot, several months get monsoon
         | rains.
        
         | Shalomboy wrote:
         | That's a non-starter if you want to maintain any sort of upward
         | mobility in Florida.
        
       | LogicFailsMe wrote:
       | This would seem like a form of State AI regulation forcing you to
       | submit to flock AI surveillance. I thought the dear leader was
       | going to make any sort of regulation of AI illegal nationwide?
       | Looking forward to the absurd lawsuit asserting exactly this.
       | 
       | Especially when the boss move is just to retrain the network with
       | a bunch of examples with the flock camera jammer applied. And if
       | that's beyond the pythonic acumen of the employees of flock,
       | that's their problem.
        
         | frogperson wrote:
         | This is fascism, the rules coudlnt be clearer. Enemies bad,
         | friends good. You dont need laws or logic for that.
        
       | SamInTheShell wrote:
       | Seem to recall license plates are required to be illuminated as
       | well. What's stopping someone from just adding an additional IR
       | light to those enclosures? Couldn't you just slap an additional
       | bright enough IR light in that makes it impossible to even see
       | the plate clearly through cameras?
       | 
       | Personally, if I cared enough to obfuscate my plate info from
       | these devices, I would just taint their data by wrapping my car
       | in a wrap with various different "plates" themed art. I like cars
       | and the exterior has traditionally been treated like art.
       | Tainting data is just as effective at making the core dataset
       | useless as omitting data in the first place.
        
         | snowfield wrote:
         | Don't think that really works.think that's been debunked
        
           | SamInTheShell wrote:
           | Which thing?
        
         | BobaFloutist wrote:
         | Surely the sensor would detect the IR separately from the
         | visible light and could easily filter it out?
        
           | SamInTheShell wrote:
           | Genuinely don't know. The hack here is exploiting artifacts
           | from over exposure for the camera sensor. As to if they have
           | mitigating features to filter non visible light, I'm actually
           | curious.
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | I doubt it, that is a lot of extra cost against an attack
           | that doesn't exist today.
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | Most digital cameras see farther on the low end than humans
           | do and it can do some odd things. It made the news with the
           | Sony? camera that had a mode specifically to use this--turns
           | out it sort-of sees through many swimsuits. Or a video I've
           | seen of firefighters caught in a burnover--the fire looked
           | very weird!
        
       | pedalpete wrote:
       | I find it interesting that the law states "affects the ability to
       | record".
       | 
       | The license plate can still be recorded. A human viewing the
       | license plate recorded would still be able to visualize it.
       | 
       | There is nothing shown in this video in the law that states that
       | the license plate has to be legible to a computer or specifically
       | an AI.
        
         | pickledonions49 wrote:
         | It can be recorded, but the dots make it so some systems can't
         | recognize it. I perceived "record" in the context of
         | identification/logging.
        
       | tamimio wrote:
       | I thought it was supposed to be the golden age!? Instead we have
       | technocratic elites who are after mass surveillance whether in
       | forced digital ID or AI surveillance for cars and humans, and the
       | worst part is if you try to protect your privacy you are a
       | criminal now, like using VPNs or countering the AI. What's next,
       | using cryptography is illegal and is considered terrorism? And
       | public justification is ready; it's either "illegal immigrants"
       | or "protecting the kids" depending on your political views.
        
         | lisbbb wrote:
         | I'm planning on dystopian cyberpunk, which is how we already
         | live, tbh. There was never going to be a golden age because
         | humans are not capable of such.
        
       | milesvp wrote:
       | BTW, if you don't know Benn Jordan, his YouTube content is fire.
       | I happen to be in the intersection of things that he likes to
       | think about, but every video I've seen of his lately deserves
       | front page HN treatment. It is that good.
       | 
       | This one was particularly good, given the technical difficulties
       | of recording low frequency sounds. I can't vouch for his
       | conclusions, but the effort he goes to to record these sounds is
       | crazy.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvr8L5v8u8
        
         | butlike wrote:
         | Indeed! His content is really good. Unfortunately, I can't find
         | the video right now, but there's one of him recording natural
         | reverb in a tunnel that was really good. A 20 mile bike ride in
         | the dark makes the video very dream like and pleasant.
        
         | wvbdmp wrote:
         | He's also The Flashbulb. Probably some other aliases, too, idk.
         | But The Flashbulb is good shit.
        
         | dtj1123 wrote:
         | Benn Jordan holds a special place in my Youtube viewing habits,
         | in that he was the influence that ultimately broke my Youtube
         | addiction. I no longer engage with their recommendation
         | algorithm in any way.
         | 
         | You have to respect the integrity needed to use such a hard-won
         | platform to de-platform yourself, in the interests of your
         | audience.
        
           | wyre wrote:
           | Was there a video in particular? I admire Benn but haven't
           | seen any of his videos on the YouTube algorithm in
           | particular.
        
       | Aloisius wrote:
       | Intentionally modifying a license plate in order to prevent it
       | from being read?
       | 
       | The only thing I'm shocked about is that it hasn't wasn't illegal
       | before.
        
         | websiteapi wrote:
         | Exactly. I have no idea anyone would be surprised that
         | modifying your license plate so it cannot be read would be
         | illegal.
        
         | patrickmay wrote:
         | The plate can still be easily read by a human, just not one of
         | the Flock cameras.
        
           | websiteapi wrote:
           | Or toll booths...
        
       | pickledonions49 wrote:
       | Wow now I am being stalked by AI algorithms instead of that
       | twitchy psycho from work.
       | 
       | Jokes aside I think this is an issue for the reason of hypocrisy
       | (not that I want to track people) and usage of the technology.
        
       | lisbbb wrote:
       | Every time someone hits back in the name of individual rights and
       | privacy, the same thing happens. The state (aka government) does
       | not want us to be able to protect ourselves from its intrusions.
       | The US has become a surveillance state, it's plain as day where
       | it is heading. The weird thing is, we aren't prosecuting actual
       | crimes when they are discovered. So one must assume that the
       | surveillance is political in nature, much like what the USSR did
       | or China currently engages in. It is for repression.
        
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