[HN Gopher] EFF Launches Age Verification Hub as Resource Agains...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       EFF Launches Age Verification Hub as Resource Against Misguided
       Laws
        
       Author : iamnothere
       Score  : 67 points
       Date   : 2025-12-10 20:35 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.eff.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.eff.org)
        
       | mikece wrote:
       | Any time law-makers claim that a law is meant to protect children
       | you can guarantee that the safety of children had almost nothing
       | to do with it. This is all a push to normalize digital ID (to
       | protect the children!); once normalized it will become
       | _mandatory_.
        
         | no_wizard wrote:
         | I always ask myself _who wins_ with these laws (well, any law
         | really). so far, the only winner seems to be the government and
         | data collectors. It seems these laws are intended to collect
         | leverage in the long run.
        
           | guilamu wrote:
           | Well, you just answered brilliantly to your own question. You
           | nailed it.
        
         | owisd wrote:
         | You think car seats and childproof bottle caps are a conspiracy
         | as well?
        
       | dvh wrote:
       | This gives me Leisure Suit Larry flashbacks
        
         | blitzar wrote:
         | Ken sent me
        
           | kingforaday wrote:
           | LSL4 was my favorite.
        
       | giancarlostoro wrote:
       | Not to mention people lose accounts because someone reported them
       | as underage, and now they don't want to fully dox themselves over
       | this. Who can blame them considering discord's own support ticket
       | system was hacked which included people who had to validate their
       | age.
        
       | bobajeff wrote:
       | I wonder what the psychological effect of having little or no
       | privacy would do to people. Are we all going to be paranoid
       | schizophrenics? How would a world of paranoid schizophrenics
       | work? How insane are world events going to be from that point on?
        
         | pyuser583 wrote:
         | You think you have privacy?
         | 
         | At best, you go back and forth between no privacy, a heavily
         | condition privacy. At best.
         | 
         | Let's take privacy back, but that's a big process.
         | 
         | If you haven't internalized surveillance, start working on it!
        
       | rlpb wrote:
       | I'd be OK with an "I am a child" header mandated by law to be
       | respected by service providers (eg. "adult sites" must not permit
       | a client setting the header to proceed). On the client side,
       | mandate that consumer devices that might reasonably be expected
       | to be used by children (every smartphone, tablet, smart TV, etc)
       | have parental controls that set the header. Leave it to parents
       | to set the controls. Perhaps even hold parents culpable for not
       | doing so, as a minimum supervision requirement, just as one may
       | hold parents culpable for neglecting their children in other
       | ways.
       | 
       | Forcing providers to divine the age of the user, or requiring an
       | adult's identity to verify that they are not a child, is
       | backwards, for all the reasons pointed out. But that's not the
       | only way to "protect the children". Relying on a very minimal
       | level of parental supervision of device use should be fine; we
       | already expect far more than that in non-technology areas.
        
         | ProjectArcturis wrote:
         | I'm not sure that making parents legally culpable for their
         | kids being smart enough to download a new browser is LESS
         | government intrusion.
        
           | e40 wrote:
           | It could be added at the router? The child's computer could
           | be identified and this header added, in a MITM situation...
           | but, maybe that would be easy to defeat, by replacing the
           | cert on the client? Not my area of expertise... really just
           | asking...
        
         | hypeatei wrote:
         | Okay, so the HTTP header idea seems like it would have two
         | issues:
         | 
         | 1) Given that it just says you're a "child", how does that work
         | across jurisdictions where the adult age may not be 18?
         | 
         | 2) It seems like it could be abused by fingerprinters, ad
         | services, and even hostile websites that want to show
         | inappropriate content to children.
        
           | phantasmish wrote:
           | > 1) Given that it just says you're a "child", how does that
           | work across jurisdictions where the adult age may not be 18?
           | 
           | It's a client-side flag saying "treat this request as coming
           | from a child (whatever that means to you)". I don't follow
           | what the jurisdiction concern is.
           | 
           | [EDIT] Oooooh you mean if a child is legally 18 where the
           | server is, but 16 where the client is. But the header could
           | be un-set for a 5-year-old, too, so I don't think that much
           | matters. The idea would be to empower parents to set a policy
           | that flags requests from their kids as coming from a child.
           | If they fail to do that, I suppose that'd be on them.
        
             | hypeatei wrote:
             | The concern is that websites have no way to tell the actual
             | age in this scenario so you'd be potentially
             | inconveniencing and/or blocking legitimate users (according
             | to the server jurisdiction's rules)
             | 
             | It doesn't seem sufficient, and would probably lead to age
             | verification laws anyway.
        
         | bena wrote:
         | I am a Russian proxy site, I make requests for you without the
         | header. I serve you the content because I don't care about
         | following American laws.
         | 
         | Alternatively, just use an older browser that doesn't serve the
         | header.
         | 
         | If anything, you'd want the reverse. A header that serves as a
         | disclaimer saying "I'm an adult, you can serve me anything" and
         | then the host would only serve if the browser sends that
         | header. And you'd have to turn it on through the
         | settings/parental controls.
         | 
         | Now, this doesn't handle the proxy situation. You could still
         | have a proxy site that served the request with the header for
         | you, but there's not much you can do about that regardless.
        
         | pembrook wrote:
         | > _Perhaps even hold parents culpable for not doing so, as a
         | minimum supervision requirement_
         | 
         | Even the idea of prosecuting parents for allowing their child
         | to access 'information,' no matter what that information is,
         | just sounds like asking for 1984-style insanity.
         | 
         | A good rule of thumb when creating laws: imagine someone with
         | opposite political views from yours applying said law at their
         | discretion (because it will happen at some point!).
         | 
         | Another good question to ask yourself: is this really a severe
         | enough problem that government needs to apply authoritarian
         | control via its monopoly on violence to try to solve? Or is it
         | just something I'm abstractly worried about because some
         | pseudo-intellectuals are doing media tours to try to sell books
         | by inciting moral panic?
         | 
         | As with every generation who is constantly worried about what
         | "kids these days" are up to, it's highly highly likely the kids
         | will be fine.
         | 
         | The worrying is a good instinct, but when it becomes an
         | irrational media hysteria (the phase we're in for the
         | millennial generation who've had kids and are becoming their
         | parents), it creates perverse incentives and leads to dumb
         | outcomes.
         | 
         | The truth is the young are more adaptable than the old. It's
         | the adults we need to worry about.
        
       | alkindiffie wrote:
       | Would be great if EFF also sets up a phone verification hub.
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45989890
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-12-10 23:01 UTC)