[HN Gopher] IBM to acquire Confluent
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       IBM to acquire Confluent
        
       Author : abd12
       Score  : 309 points
       Date   : 2025-12-08 13:43 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.confluent.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.confluent.io)
        
       | jituyadav wrote:
       | is it good or bad for confluent employees?
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | Both.
         | 
         | IBM will likely give Confluent employees a large pay package,
         | and then let them go after the merger.
        
         | vb-8448 wrote:
         | They will get some money in the short term, but they better
         | start looking for another job
         | 
         | edit: btw, it's typical for any acquisition/merger
        
         | xocnad wrote:
         | From experience, and to slightly refute the sibling replied,
         | good for the confluent peeps that get flagged as being
         | essential to the acquisition, they'll get a retention bonus of
         | 100-300% of base pay spread over three years. The cutting of
         | staff will begin likely in the 3-5 year time frame.
        
         | abtinf wrote:
         | It depends a lot on which org they go into, and the motivations
         | of the P&L owner of that division.
         | 
         | IBM is a really big and diverse company, in a way fundamentally
         | different from most other big tech. In a sense, it is
         | completely incoherent to refer to them as a singular entity.
         | 
         | My opinions are my own. I worked at IBM like a decade ago in a
         | role where I could see the radically different motivations of
         | divisions.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | IBM paid a ~30% premium on the current stock price, so all
         | shareholders (I imagine employees own a bunch of shares) will
         | get a decent chunk of cash.
         | 
         | Some redundant departments (HR, finance, accounting and the
         | like) will be downsized after the acquisition.
         | 
         | Engineering and product will be unaffected in the short term,
         | but in a year or two the IBM culture will start to seep in, and
         | that would be a good time for tenured employees to start
         | planning their exits. That's also when lock-up agreements will
         | expire and the existing leadership of Confluent will depart and
         | be replaced by IBM execs.
        
           | CyanLite2 wrote:
           | And sales teams will likely be forced to cross-sell IBM
           | Products.
        
         | pm90 wrote:
         | IPO'd at 45, high of 90ish, sold at 30. It depends on the
         | strike price for employees, but its not clear if its
         | universally a good outcome.
        
       | itsanaccount wrote:
       | And the enshittification treadmill continues. Great time to be a
       | kafka alternative.
       | 
       | I'll start.
       | 
       | https://github.com/tansu-io/tansu
        
         | gooob wrote:
         | wait what's wrong with kafka?
        
           | itslennysfault wrote:
           | What's wrong with kafka or what WILL BE wrong with kafka?
        
           | Boxxed wrote:
           | I was in the midst of writing a snarky reply and then
           | realized my _actual_ issue with Kafka is that people reach
           | for it way too often and use it in ways that don 't really
           | make sense.
           | 
           | Kind of like how people use docker for evrything, when what
           | you really should be doing is learn how to package software.
        
             | stackskipton wrote:
             | Ops here, Docker is packaging software.
             | 
             | Agree on the Kafka thing though. I've seen so many devs
             | trip over Kafka topics, partitions and offsets when their
             | throughput is low enough that RabbitMQ would do fine.
        
               | marcosdumay wrote:
               | No, docker is a software for packaging systems.
               | 
               | The people distributing software should shut them damn up
               | about how the rest of the system it runs in is
               | configured. (But not you, your job is packaging full
               | systems.)
               | 
               | That said, it seems to me that this is becoming less of a
               | problem.
        
           | kevstev wrote:
           | Nothing inherently wrong with the core product IMHO. The
           | issue is more with Confluent, who have been constantly
           | swinging from hot buzzword to hot buzzword for the last few
           | years in search of growth. Confluent cloud is very expensive,
           | and you still have to deal with a surprising amount of
           | scaling headaches. I have people I consider friends that work
           | there, so I don't want to go too deep into their various
           | missteps, but the Kafka ecosystem has been largely stagnant
           | outside of getting rid of Zookeeper and simplifying
           | operations/deployment. There have been some decent quality of
           | life fixes, but the platform is very expensive, yet if you
           | are really all-in on Kafka, you would be insane to not get
           | support from Confluent- it can break in surprising ways.
           | 
           | So you are stuck with some really terrible tradeoffs- Go with
           | Confluent Cloud, pay a fortune, and still likely have some
           | issues to deal with. Or you could go with Confluent Platform,
           | still have to pay people to operate it, while Confluent the
           | company focuses most of their attention on Cloud and still
           | charges you a fortune. Or you could just go completely OS and
           | forgo anything Confluent and risk being really up the river
           | when something inevitably breaks, or you have to learn the
           | hard way that librdkafka has poor support for a lot of the
           | shiny features discussed in the release notes.
           | 
           | Redpanda has surpassed them from a technical quality
           | perspective, but Kafka has them beat on the ecosystem and the
           | sheer inertia of moving from one platform to another. Kafka
           | for example was built in a time of spinning rust hard disks,
           | and expects to be run on general purpose compute nodes, where
           | Redpanda will actually look at your hardware and optimize the
           | number of threads its spawns for the box it is on- assuming
           | it is going to be the only real app running there, which is
           | true for anything but a toy deployment.
           | 
           | This is my experience from running platform teams and being
           | head of messaging at multiple companies.
        
           | itsanaccount wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification is helpful if
           | you arent aware of how late stage capitalism works
        
             | philipallstar wrote:
             | Late stage of what?
        
         | osigurdson wrote:
         | https://nats.io
         | 
         | Not a drop in replacement, but worth looking at.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | https://pulsar.apache.org/
        
         | adamdecaf wrote:
         | Redpanda has been a superior wire-compatible alternative to
         | Kafka for years.
         | 
         | https://www.redpanda.com/compare/redpanda-vs-kafka
        
           | inesranzo wrote:
           | Until Redpanda becomes enshittified.
           | 
           | Sigh.
        
         | spyspy wrote:
         | `SELECT * FROM mytable ORDER BY timestamp ASC`
        
           | alexjplant wrote:
           | Ah yes, and every consumer should just do this in a while
           | (true) loop as producers write to it. Very efficient and
           | simple with no possibility of lock contention or hot spots.
           | Genius, really.
        
             | antonvs wrote:
             | It's one of my favorite patterns, because it's the highest-
             | impact, lowest-hanging fruit to fix in many systems that
             | have hit serious scaling bottlenecks.
        
             | CharlieDigital wrote:
             | I've implemented a distributed worker system on top of this
             | paradigm.
             | 
             | I used ZMQ to connect nodes and the worker nodes would
             | connect to an indexer/coordinator node that effectively did
             | a `SELECT FROM ORDER BY ASC`.
             | 
             | It's easier than you may think and the bits here ended up
             | with probably < 1000 SLOC all told.                   -
             | Coordinator node ingests from a SQL table         - There
             | is a discriminator key for each row in the table for
             | ordering by stacking into an in-memory list-of-lists
             | - Worker nodes are started with _n_ threads         - Each
             | thread sends a "ready" message to the coordinator and
             | coordinator replies with a "work" message         - On each
             | cycle, the coordinator advances the pointer on the list,
             | locks the list, and marks the first item in the child list
             | as "pending"         - When worker thread finishes, it
             | sends a "completed" message to the coordinator and
             | coordinator replies with another "work" message         -
             | Coordinator unlocks the list the work item originated from
             | and dequeues the finished item.         - When it reaches
             | the end of the list, it cycles to the beginning of the list
             | and starts over, skipping over any child lists marked as
             | locked (has a pending work item)
             | 
             | Effectively a distributed event loop with the events queued
             | up via a simple SQL query.
             | 
             | Dead simple design, extremely robust, very high throughput,
             | very easy to scale workers both horizontally (more nodes)
             | and vertically (more threads). ZMQ made it easy to connect
             | the remote threads to the centralized coordinator. It was
             | effectively "self balancing" because the workers would only
             | re-queue their thread once it finished work. Very easy to
             | manage, but did not have hot failovers since we kept the
             | materialized, "2D" work queue in memory. Though very rarely
             | did we have issues with this.
        
               | ahoka wrote:
               | Yeah, but that's like doing actual engineering. Instead
               | you should just point to Kafka and say that it's going to
               | make your horrible architecture scale magically. That's
               | how the pros do it.
        
               | tormeh wrote:
               | Kafka isn't magic, but it's close. If a single-node
               | solution like an SQL database can handle your load then
               | why shouldn't you stick with SQL? Kafka is not for you.
               | Kafka is for workloads that would DDoS Postgres.
        
         | tormeh wrote:
         | Apache Iggy seems like a project with a lot of momentum:
         | https://github.com/apache/iggy
        
         | linsomniac wrote:
         | Do any of these alternatives make it easy to transition a
         | system that is using Kafka Connectors and Avro?
        
       | mistercheph wrote:
       | Another genius move from International Business Machines!
        
       | zkmon wrote:
       | Kafka is already past it's prime time. Time for new solutions for
       | the oldest problem - sending a message.
        
         | slekker wrote:
         | Erlang/OTP!
        
         | spyspy wrote:
         | I'm still convinced the vast majority of kafka implementations
         | could be replaced with `SELECT * FROM mytable ORDER BY
         | timestamp ASC`
        
           | devnull3 wrote:
           | That is exactly what I am doing with sqlite.
           | 
           | Have a table level seqno as monotonically increasing number
           | stamped for every mutation. When a subscriber connects it
           | asks for rows > Subscriber's seqno-last-handled.
        
           | fatal94 wrote:
           | Sure, if you're working on a small homelab with minimal to no
           | processing volume.
           | 
           | The second you approach any kind of scale, this falls apart
           | and/or you end up with a more expensive and worse version of
           | Kafka.
        
             | devnull3 wrote:
             | I think there is a wide spectrum between small-homelab and
             | google scale.
             | 
             | I was surprised how far sqlite goes with some sharding on
             | modern SSDs for those in-between scale services/saas
        
               | fatal94 wrote:
               | What you're doing is fine for a homelab, or learning. But
               | barring any very specific reason other than just not
               | liking Kafka, its bad. The second that pattern needs to
               | be fanned out to support even 50+ producers/consumers,
               | the overhead and complexity needed to manage already-
               | solved problems becomes a very bad design choice.
               | 
               | Kafka already solves this problem and gives me message
               | durability, near infinite scale out, sharding, delivery
               | guarantees, etc out of the box. I do not care to develop,
               | reshard databases or production-alize this myself.
        
               | NewJazz wrote:
               | Some people don't and won't need 50+ producers/consumers
               | for a long while, if ever. Rewriting the code at that
               | point may be less costly than operating Kafka in the
               | interim. Kafka is also has a higher potential for failure
               | than sqlite.
        
               | fatal94 wrote:
               | Ofc, and not everybody needs or cares for all the
               | features Kafka has. Then use another known and tested
               | messaging system. Use NATS or ZMQ. Or any cloud native
               | pubsub system
               | 
               | My main point is, I have zero interest in creating novel
               | solutions to a solved problem. It just artificially
               | increases the complexity of my work and the learning
               | curve for contributors.
        
               | umanwizard wrote:
               | Okay, then those people don't have to use Kafka. What is
               | your point?
        
               | NewJazz wrote:
               | I was responding to someone who was responding to someone
               | that wasn't using Kafka telling them to use Kafka. What's
               | yours?
        
               | CyberDildonics wrote:
               | sqlite can do 40,000 transactions per second, that's
               | going to be a lot more than 'homelab' (home lab).
               | 
               | Not everything needs to be big and complicated.
        
             | raverbashing wrote:
             | "Any kind of scale" No, there's a long way of better and
             | more straightforward solutions than the simple SELECT
             | 
             | (SELECT * from EVENTS where TIMESTAMP > LAST_TS LIMIT 50)
             | for example
        
           | Romario77 wrote:
           | pull vs push. Plus if you start storing the last timestamp so
           | you only select the delta and if you start sharding your db
           | and dealing with complexities of having different time on
           | different tables/replication issues it quickly becomes
           | evident that Kafka is better in this regard.
           | 
           | But yeah, for a lot of implementations you don't need
           | streaming. But for pull based apps you design your
           | architecture differently, some things are a lot easier than
           | it is with DB, some things are harder.
        
             | ahoka wrote:
             | Funny you mention that, because Kafka consumers actually
             | pull messages.
        
               | politelemon wrote:
               | What is the reason for using Kafka then, sorry if I'm
               | missing something fundamental.
        
           | hawk_ wrote:
           | Yes but try putting that on your CV.
        
         | gooob wrote:
         | wait what do you mean? what's wrong with kafka?
        
         | pokstad wrote:
         | Nothing wrong with Kafka. Time to build better abstractions on
         | top of Kafka.
        
         | avrionov wrote:
         | What are the alternatives?
        
           | esafak wrote:
           | RedPanda, Iggy, Pulsar, Fluvio, NATS, etc.
        
         | Zigurd wrote:
         | ATProto? (aka AT protocol, ATP, Atmosphere...)
        
       | jhickok wrote:
       | "With the acquisition of Confluent, IBM will provide the smart
       | data platform for enterprise IT, purpose-built for AI."
       | 
       | https://newsroom.ibm.com/2025-12-08-ibm-to-acquire-confluent...
       | 
       | I don't understand how this acquisition is relevant for AI.
        
         | exsomet wrote:
         | Every time an executive says AI the number goes up.
        
         | oedemis wrote:
         | Streaming, EDA can solve lot of data challenges for enterprise
         | AI use cases
        
         | kitd wrote:
         | Event-driven AI decision making is the C-suite wet dream. A
         | large % of major orgs run Kafka for their eventing systems.
        
           | jhickok wrote:
           | So the idea is sorta watching the wire of streaming data with
           | autonomous agents or something like that?
        
             | kitd wrote:
             | Exactly. An agent may be acting on the contents of
             | individual events, but also spotting trends and patterns in
             | events, and intervening where needed/instructed.
        
           | brown9-2 wrote:
           | not for much longer
        
         | charles_f wrote:
         | They probably have cursor licenses
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | As I read the release, it just sounded like "something
         | something something data, something something something AI."
         | 
         | AI is just the lastest buzzword. Everyone has it, because they
         | have to. Don't look behind the curtain.
        
         | scarmig wrote:
         | You can double your company's value by saying it's an AI
         | company. Easiest, simplest way to create value.
        
         | Oras wrote:
         | AI Agent for Kafka Consumer group
         | 
         | /s
        
         | egorfine wrote:
         | Anything today has to contain the word "AI" otherwise it simply
         | won't be considered.
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | It's depressing how IBM always uses the same language with
         | every single acquisition. They don't care about the actual
         | tech, only the patents and the ability to resell it.
        
       | udev4096 wrote:
       | How is IBM still alive? Or is it trying to prove the same
        
       | hadrien01 wrote:
       | Genuine question: how did the IBM acquisitions of Red Hat and
       | HashiCorp turn out?
       | 
       | For Red Hat, there's no longer an official "public" distribution
       | of RHEL, but apart from that they seemingly have been left alone
       | and able to continue to develop their own products. But that's
       | only my POV as a user of OSS Red Hat products at home and of RHEL
       | and OpenShift at work.
        
         | EarthIsHome wrote:
         | Gnome has stagnated significantly.
        
           | tannhaeuser wrote:
           | If only it had stagnated around gnome 2.0.
        
           | throw10920 wrote:
           | Could that be due to increased popularity of KDE?
        
           | phkahler wrote:
           | >> Gnome has stagnated significantly.
           | 
           | GTK is still alive. It seems like Cosmic desktop with GTK
           | apps will be a reasonable path forward. Of course there's KDE
           | and QT, but I mean as an alternative to those.
        
           | shrubble wrote:
           | The Gnome desktop that shipped with Solaris over two decades
           | ago is just as useful, possibly more useful, as the tablet-
           | oriented hamburger menu UI of today.
           | 
           | Yes, two decades:
           | https://adtmag.com/articles/2003/08/04/solaris-gets-a-
           | gnome-...
        
           | JeremyNT wrote:
           | I'm not sure this is bad? It's still maintained, and it isn't
           | like there are frequent revolutions in UI design - if it
           | works, it works.
           | 
           | Slow and boring is a pretty nice place to be.
        
           | jamespo wrote:
           | Linux on the desktop isn't a lucrative business
        
         | m4rtink wrote:
         | Well, there is CentOS Stream:
         | 
         | https://www.centos.org/centos-stream/
         | 
         | And Fedora is still the upstream of RHEL, nothing changed
         | there.
        
           | bluedino wrote:
           | It seems like most users got tired of the unknowns with
           | CentOS and went to Alma/Rocky. Doesn't help that most third
           | party software vendors also didn't bother to support it.
        
         | this_user wrote:
         | The argument has been made that the real value of RH lies in
         | the people working there. And if IBM were to interfere too
         | heavy-handedly, those people would just leave, and RH would
         | become basically worthless.
        
           | bityard wrote:
           | Maybe that's how it should work, but it's not how it actually
           | works.
           | 
           | The culture makes the company. Everyone on the lower rungs of
           | the org chart knows this, because it's what they live and
           | breathe every day. A positive, supportive workplace culture
           | with clear goals and relative autonomy is a thing of beauty.
           | You routinely find people doing more work than they really
           | have to because they believe in the mission, or their peers,
           | or the work is just fun. People join the company (and stay)
           | because they WANT to not because they have to.
           | 
           | Past a certain company size, upper management NEVER sees
           | this. They are always looking outward: strategy, customers,
           | marketing, competition. Never in. They've been trained to
           | give great motivational speeches that instill a sense of
           | company pride and motivation for about 30 seconds. After
           | that, employee morale is HR's job.
           | 
           | I have worked in a company that got acquired while it was
           | profitable. The culture change was slow but dramatic. We went
           | from a fun, dynamic culture with lots of teamwork and
           | supportive management, to one step or two above Office Space.
           | As far as the acquiring company was concerned, everything we
           | were doing didn't matter, even if it worked. We had to
           | conform to their systems and processes, or find new jobs.
           | Most of us eventually did the latter.
           | 
           | Somehow Red Hat seems to be a notable exception. Although IBM
           | owns Red Hat, they seem to have mostly left it alone instead
           | of absorbing it. The name "IBM" doesn't even appear on
           | redhat.com. Because I'm an outsider, I can't say whether IBM
           | meddled in Red Hat's HR or management, but I would guess not.
        
         | rmccue wrote:
         | We moved off HashiCorp's Terraform Cloud when they tried to
         | hike the price 100x on us, although that was technically pre-
         | acquisition I think (it was their move to resource-based
         | pricing). In talking with our account manager, they basically
         | said they only really cared about enterprise accounts, and that
         | migrating away would probably make sense for us.
         | 
         | HashiCorp also changed their licenses to non-open-source
         | licenses, but again I think this was technically pre-
         | acquisition (I think as they were gearing up to be a more
         | attractive target for an exit).
        
           | dangus wrote:
           | In addition to this, I've noticed that OpenTofu is gaining
           | much more interesting features and are actually acting upon
           | long-requested functionality that HashiCorp has refused to
           | implement (example: provider for_each in 1.9.0)
        
           | mitchellh wrote:
           | > (I think as they were gearing up to be a more attractive
           | target for an exit).
           | 
           | A common conspiracy theory, but not true.
        
             | sethops1 wrote:
             | Source: the guy the company was named after
        
           | jen20 wrote:
           | > were gearing up to be a more attractive target for an exit
           | 
           | An "exit" from the public market?
        
             | everfrustrated wrote:
             | Yes. They were burning the cash they raised from IPO as
             | weren't profitable and no real path to profitability.
             | Needed to find a buyer to take private as the other option
             | - raise debt or print shares - wasn't going to happen as
             | the share price had massively tanked and wasn't going to go
             | up any time soon.
             | 
             | Hopefully mitchellh will write a book about Hashicorp some
             | time. Would be fascinating to read the inside take.
        
         | CSMastermind wrote:
         | I migrated our company off Terraform to Pulumi as a direct
         | result of the acquisition.
        
           | tietjens wrote:
           | How has it been? Sincere question.
        
         | HashiCorps wrote:
         | Former-Hashi employee here: there's a clear prioritization of
         | enterprise products. So much so that I would not be surprised
         | if they stopped supporting the Open Source projects entirely.
         | That would be a big boost for the forks.
         | 
         | Red Hat has far more autonomy. We are not structured the same.
         | 
         | On the HR side -- many good people are leaving; new hires have
         | to be on-site for 3 days and located in 4 "strategic" locations
         | in the US.
        
       | leeoniya wrote:
       | previously...
       | 
       | https://www.confluent.io/blog/confluent-acquires-warpstream/
        
         | enether wrote:
         | Warpstream (by Confluent (an IBM company))
        
       | elcapitan wrote:
       | At least you can now safely buy into Kafka, as nobody ever got
       | fired for buying IBM.
        
         | notepad0x90 wrote:
         | This isn't the old times, you can expect the opposite outcome
         | these days.
        
           | kevstev wrote:
           | OP IMHO was obviously being sarcastic.
        
             | notepad0x90 wrote:
             | Fair.
        
         | antonvs wrote:
         | I know companies who would certainly have fired people for
         | buying IBM, if they could have gone back in time to do so.
        
       | b33f wrote:
       | Maybe a good time to consider alternatives
       | https://www.redpanda.com/compare/redpanda-vs-kafka
        
         | mliezun wrote:
         | Maybe this whole thing it's because Snowflake acquired redpanda
         | earlier this year:
         | https://www.investors.com/news/technology/snowflake-stock-re...
        
           | jerrinot wrote:
           | Snowflake did not acquire RP after all.
        
         | tapoxi wrote:
         | We switched to Redpanda's BYOC product because we couldn't use
         | Confluent Cloud (contractual reasons) and BYOC was a third the
         | price of Confluent for Kubernetes while also being a managed
         | service.
         | 
         | I've been pretty happy with RP performance/cost/functionality
         | wise. It isn't Kafka though, it's a proprietary C++ rewrite
         | that aims for 100% compatibility. This hasn't been an issue in
         | the 2+ years since we migrated prod, but YMMV.
        
         | dangoldin wrote:
         | I led the engineering team of a large adtech company
         | (TripleLift - order of hundreds of billions of events/day) and
         | we evolved from self hosting Kafka, to paying a vendor
         | (Instacluster), to migrating to RedPanda.
         | 
         | RedPanda was a huge win for us. Confluent never made sense to
         | us since we were always so cost conscious but the
         | complexity/risk of managing a critical part of our infra was
         | always something I worried about. RedPanda was able to handle
         | both for us - cheaper than Kafka hosting vendors with
         | significantly better performance. We were pretty early
         | customers but was a huge win for us.
        
           | dangoodmanUT wrote:
           | This. Using RP was like a breath of fresh air compared to the
           | dread of Kafka (both local dev, and running a prod cluster)
        
       | geodel wrote:
       | This is great news. Kafka (the messaging/streaming platform) has
       | finally found its natural home.
        
       | notepad0x90 wrote:
       | This is so fascinating to me. I mean how IBM keeps taking over
       | other companies, but they consistently deliver low
       | quality/bottom-tier services and products. Why do they keep doing
       | the same thing again and again? How are they generating actual
       | revenue this way?
       | 
       | Ok, so does anyone remember 'Watson'? It was the chatgpt before
       | chatgpt. they built it in house. Why didn't they compete with
       | OpenAI like Google and Anthropic are doing, with in-house tools?
       | They have a mature PowerPC (Power9+? now?)setup, lots of talent
       | to make ML/LLMs work and lots of existing investment in
       | datacenters and getting GPU-intense workloads going.
       | 
       | I don't disagree that this acquisition is good strategy, I'm just
       | fascinated (Schadenfreude?) to witness the demise of confluent
       | now. I think economists should study this, it might help avert
       | larger problems.
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | I'm pretty convinced there is a bell curve of "understanding
         | what IBM does" where idiots and geniuses both have absolutely
         | no idea.
         | 
         | It really is probably that strangest company in tech which you
         | think could be mysterious and intriguing. But no one cares.
         | It's like no one wants to look behind the boring suit and see
         | wtf. From my low point on that bell curve I can't see how they
         | are even solvent.
        
         | embedding-shape wrote:
         | Your fascination seems hinged on the fact that IBM has "lots of
         | talent to make ML/LLMs work" which judging by what they've put
         | out so far and talk publicly about, is very far from the truth.
         | Anyone who has a clue seems to (rightly) have left IBM decades
         | ago, and left are business people who think "Managed to
         | increase margin by 0.1%" is something to celebrate.
        
           | notepad0x90 wrote:
           | To be a bit more candid, they have lots of employees outside
           | of the US (particularly in India). and both in the US and
           | elsewhere, people need to eat. They may not have the talent
           | to innovate new tech like OpenAI and others, or do cutting-
           | edge R&D, but they certainly have the talent to take LLM
           | breakthroughs and adapt. They could have competed with many
           | of the B-Tier LLM services out there with the right
           | leadership.
        
             | embedding-shape wrote:
             | > but they certainly have the talent to take LLM
             | breakthroughs and adapt
             | 
             | I'll believe that when I see it. They had a decade
             | headstart with all of this, and yeah, could have been at
             | the forefront. But they're not, and because of the
             | organization itself, they're unlikely to have a shot at
             | even getting close to there. Seems they know this
             | themselves too, as they're targeting the lower end of the
             | market now with their Granite models, rather than shooting
             | for the stars and missing, like they've done countless of
             | times before.
        
           | pea wrote:
           | It's a shame because people forget how good IBM research was
           | back in the day. I do wonder if they still have great people
           | in those r&d labs, or if they all left.
        
             | alienbaby wrote:
             | There are good people in IBM. But they don't have the
             | resources behind them anymore. Look at the market cap of
             | ms, Amazon. Google, meta et al, compared to IBM.
        
         | photon_lines wrote:
         | Why in the world would economists need to study this? It's been
         | known that large bureaucracies have been dysfunctional for over
         | a couple of decades now if not centuries. The large reason is
         | because 1) the incentives to do great work are not there (most
         | of the credit for a huge company's success goes to the CEO who
         | gets 100X the salary of a regular worker while delivering
         | usually pretty much nothing) 2) politics usually plays a huge
         | role which gives a huge advantage to your competition (i.e.
         | your competition needs to spend less time on politics and more
         | time on the actual product) and 3) human beings don't
         | functionally work well in groups larger than 100-250 due to the
         | overwhelming complexity of the communication needed in order to
         | make this type of structure work. Incentives though I think are
         | the primary driver - most people at companies like IBM don't
         | have any incentives to actually care about the product they
         | produce and that's the secret behind the ruin of almost every
         | large company.
         | 
         | Edit: you also seem to be giving too much credence to Watson.
         | Watson was actually mostly a marketing tool designed to win in
         | Jeopardy and nothing else. It was constructed specifically to
         | compete in that use-case and was nowhere near to the
         | architecture of a general transformer which is capable of
         | figuring out meta-patterns within language and structurally
         | understanding language. You can read about Watson's design and
         | architecture here if you're curious:
         | https://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs4740/2011sp/papers/AIMa...
        
           | shadow28 wrote:
           | > most of the credit for a huge company's success goes to the
           | CEO who gets 100X the salary of a regular worker while
           | delivering usually pretty much nothing
           | 
           | Well, in Confluent's case I'm not so sure that's true given
           | that their CEO is also the company founder as well as one of
           | the original authors of Apache Kafka.
        
             | jimbokun wrote:
             | Not Confluent, IBM.
        
           | johnnyanmac wrote:
           | More like we need psychologists to ask "why are companies
           | still working with IBM's efficiencies 30 years after its
           | peak?" The workers don't have to care but the businesses
           | dealing with IBM should.
        
         | stackskipton wrote:
         | >Why do they keep doing the same thing again and again? How are
         | they generating actual revenue this way?
         | 
         | IBM has a ton of Enterprise software, backed by a bunch of
         | consultants hiding in boring businesses/governments.
         | 
         | They also do a ton of outsourcing work where they will be big
         | enterprise IT support desk and various other functions. In
         | fact, that side has gotten so big, IBM now has more employees
         | in India in then any other country.
        
         | prodigycorp wrote:
         | > Ok, so does anyone remember 'Watson'? It was the chatgpt
         | before chatgpt. they built it in house. Why didn't they compete
         | with OpenAI like Google and Anthropic are doing, with in-house
         | tools?
         | 
         | Leadership in IBM also thought that Watson was like what what
         | OAI/Anthropic/Google are doing now. It wasn't. Watson was
         | essentially a ML pipeline over-optimized on Jeopardy, which is
         | why it failed in literally every other domain.
         | 
         | Outside of Jeopardy, Watson was just a brand.
        
           | notepad0x90 wrote:
           | Sure, but they were doing that stuff. They had ML people,
           | infrastructure, marketing, branding,etc... already. Their
           | product sucked, but they could have copy-catted OpenAI in
           | 2022+ like everyone else.
        
             | kedean wrote:
             | I don't think that would have gotten them much of anywhere.
             | They already spent a decade trying to find markets for
             | Watson to fit and generally failing at it. The problem with
             | Watson wasn't technology, it was that it had no direction.
        
         | sqircles wrote:
         | There are entire niches of us that make a living (not at IBM)
         | making certain IBM products actually do what they're supposed
         | to. From my vantage point I see essentially zero maintenance
         | going on with their products. I sincerely don't understand the
         | market (why do people keep paying hundreds of thousands to
         | millions of dollars for non-existent support?) - but whatever.
        
         | rzerowan wrote:
         | To add to that i think their R&D labs along with HPE were one
         | of the few to innovate on the memristor and actually build some
         | fascinating concept machines.If i rememeber HPE's was 'The
         | Machine'.
         | 
         | Athough i think they just di/dont know how to adapt these to
         | market that isnt a enterprise behemoth , rather than
         | develop/price it so more devs can take a hold and experiment.
        
         | ericol wrote:
         | > Ok, so does anyone remember 'Watson'? It was the chatgpt
         | before chatgpt. they built it in house
         | 
         | I do. I remember going to a chat once where they wanted to get
         | people on-board in using it. It was 90 minutes of hot air. They
         | "showed" how Watson worked and how to implement things, and I
         | think every single person in the room knew they were full of
         | it. Imagine we were all engineers and there were no questions
         | at the end.
         | 
         | Comparing Watson to LLMs is like comparing a rock to an AIM-9
         | Sidewinder.
        
           | photon_lines wrote:
           | If anyone is curious to see what Watson actually was you can
           | find it here (it was nowhere near to a generalized large
           | langue model -- mostly made for winning in Jeopardy): https:/
           | /www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs4740/2011sp/papers/AIMa...
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Watson was nothing like ChatGPT. The first iteration was a
           | system specifically built to play Jeopardy. It did some neat
           | stuff with NLP and information retrieval, but it was all
           | still last generation AI/ML technology. It then evolved into
           | a brand that IBM used to sell its consulting services. The
           | product itself was a massive failure because it had no real
           | applications and was too weak as a general purpose chat bot.
        
             | ericol wrote:
             | I had no idea about what Watson was initially meant to
             | solve.
             | 
             | I do remember they tried to sell it - at least in the
             | meeting I went - as a general purpose chatbot.
             | 
             | I did try briefly to understand how to use it, but the
             | documentation was horrendous (As in, "totally devoid of any
             | technical information")
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Everything will make sense when you realize that IBM is a
         | consulting company. They don't care about building great
         | products. In fact building self-serve products will directly
         | take away from their consulting revenue. They instead need to
         | be good at marketing and selling their services. Watson was
         | exactly that - a marketing demo that got them in the news cycle
         | and helped them sell a giant wave of contracts under a single
         | brand to unsuspecting CIOs of legacy non-tech companies. Every
         | acquisition helps with this goal. Red Hat - locking companies
         | into licenses and support contracts for the OS. HashiCorp &
         | Confluent - locking companies into support contracts for their
         | cloud infra.
        
           | signatoremo wrote:
           | The service part you are likely referring to is now Kyldryl,
           | a separate company. IBM now focus on software and cloud.
           | There are still services but are much less prominent.
        
             | drewda wrote:
             | FWIW, both of your comments can have some truth:
             | 
             | - the pure consultancy is another company now - the IBM
             | portfolio of software "products" are being packaged in ways
             | that emphasize professional services and elaborate
             | licensing schemes (rather than turnkey software)
        
         | alienbaby wrote:
         | They gave up on watson about 18 months before llm's popped up,
         | and they have simply just not got enough cash on hand to
         | compete. While the big boys grew fantastically bigger over the
         | past 15 years as cloud happened ibm fumbled time after time and
         | shrank ever smaller, and is now desperately hoping it can stay
         | relevant. but in the end they just haven't got the resources to
         | compete on that stage anymore.
        
           | rdtsc wrote:
           | The recent interview with Arvind had the "grapes are too
           | green, anyway" energy. They missed the train because they
           | were licking their Watson wounds. Then sorta regretted it but
           | it's too late.
           | 
           | Same thing happened with their cloud offering. They laughed
           | at AWS, then tried to catch up, then missed and pivoted to
           | "hybrid" (cloud and local).
        
           | sva_ wrote:
           | If they hadn't sold the ThinkPad (and related) brands I would
           | care.
        
         | Lu2025 wrote:
         | > they consistently deliver low quality/bottom-tier services
         | and products
         | 
         | I worked with IBMers. The main priority for a lot of them is to
         | ensure continuous employment for themselves and their buddies.
         | They'd add unnecessary complexity to a product to stretch out
         | the development for another couple of years. And they work at
         | leisure pace for tech. Actual 9 to 5, many coffee breaks. They
         | can't compete.
        
           | Lammy wrote:
           | > And they work at leisure pace for tech. Actual 9 to 5, many
           | coffee breaks.
           | 
           | Ultra-based. We should all be so lucky.
        
           | Xiol wrote:
           | They will die happy knowing they did more than just create
           | shareholder value.
        
           | jhallenworld wrote:
           | I'll say this about IBM: because it's so old, it was the most
           | diverse company I ever worked for- including age,
           | nationality, race, sex, and any other category you can think
           | of. Basically you had all types of people in all stages of
           | life, not just young white workaholic tech-bros. The founders
           | are long gone, so everyone there (including CEO) is a
           | professional- meaning nobody has any kind of personal
           | attachment to the company. We were all in the same boat, as
           | it were. When your older coworker suddenly disappears due to
           | a stroke, it puts things in perspective.
           | 
           | The fast-paced startup is really the hack, combining the
           | energy of youth with the ego-mania of their founders. Ask
           | yourself, is it healthy?
           | 
           | Anyway, IBM's customers tend to be other fortune 100s and
           | governments- basically other similar organizations, and my
           | experience was that we took care of them pretty well. The
           | products were not pretty (no Steve Jobs-like person to
           | enforce beauty), and rather complex due to all the enterprise
           | requirements. But they were quite high quality, particularly
           | the hardware.
        
           | sva_ wrote:
           | Sounds like the German government. Or probably other
           | governments as well.
        
           | supportengineer wrote:
           | >> Actual 9 to 5, many coffee breaks
           | 
           | Found my dream job :-)
        
         | chadcmulligan wrote:
         | Have you seen Office Space? I'm sure it was based on IBM
        
         | JensRantil wrote:
         | In Sweden, IBM makes a shit tonne of money from SAP
         | implementation consulting.
        
         | Onavo wrote:
         | They have some real money printers that most probably haven't
         | heard of. IBM Maximo for example dominates some industries the
         | way SAP and Salesforce does.
        
       | JSR_FDED wrote:
       | IBM have an absolutely stellar record of blowing acquisitions.
       | The highly motivated newly acquired team will be in honeymoon
       | phase for 3 months, and then it slowly dawns on them that they've
       | joined an unbelievably rigid organization where things like
       | customer satisfaction and great products don't matter at all.
       | Then they'll be in shock and disbelief at the mind boggling
       | Byzantine rules and internal systems they have to use, whose sole
       | purpose is to make sure nobody does anything. Finally, the core
       | IBM sales force will start to make demands on them and will short
       | to ground any vestiges of energy, time, opportunity and
       | motivation they might have left. The good team members will leave
       | and join a former business partner, or decide to spend more time
       | with the family. They'll meet often at the beginning to relive
       | the glory days of pre-acquisition and recount times where they
       | went went above and beyond for that important early customer. But
       | then these meetings will become fewer and fewer. Finally they'll
       | find a way of massaging their resumes to cast the last years as
       | being "at the heart of AI infrastructure".
        
         | coliveira wrote:
         | IBM is designed to milk every last bit of money from their
         | clients. So they need to add new products every now and then to
         | add new money flows.
        
         | embedding-shape wrote:
         | Surely by now everyone, including non-developers and non-
         | software people, know exactly what IBM is, and you don't sell
         | to IBM/join IBM without knowing exactly what's about to happen.
         | No one joins IBM today and thinks there will be a huge focus on
         | customer satisfaction or focus on great product design, it's
         | all about squeezing maximum profit out of products until you
         | need to discontinue them because you chased away all of the
         | customers.
        
           | oersted wrote:
           | Not wrong but the image that people are painting in the
           | comments is getting close to a caricature now.
           | 
           | The stuff IBM is doing on Quantum Computing is serious
           | cutting-edge science and engineering for instance. The R&D
           | they are doing on semiconductors on their 2nm and sub-2nm
           | processes is also impressive and hardcore tech. They are
           | doing a bunch of progress on post-quantum cryptography and
           | homomorphic encryption. They've fallen behind now, but they
           | were also quite strong on pre-LLM NLP for a couple of
           | decades, it was not all fluff.
           | 
           | Yes they have an awful enterprise culture and they are not
           | focused on building excellent products. But what they offer
           | fits the needs of many organizations, and a lot of the things
           | they are doing on R&D are no joke.
        
             | jen20 wrote:
             | > not focused on building excellent products
             | 
             | > a lot of the things they are doing on R&D are no joke
             | 
             | Sounds a _lot_ like Microsoft too...
        
               | ekianjo wrote:
               | Sounds a lot like every very large company, in broader
               | terms
        
             | tgma wrote:
             | IBM shouldn't be thought of as a singular company. It is a
             | conglomerate that does widely distinct things. Some
             | enterprise boring profit squeezing, some shady scam "IBM
             | blockchain on Z OS prevents viruses," some research/patent
             | efforts elsewhere.
             | 
             | That said the GP is spot on for this sort of acquisition we
             | know what will happen and has nothing to do with 2nm
             | research division.
        
               | newsoftheday wrote:
               | > IBM shouldn't be thought of as a singular company. It
               | is a conglomerate that does widely distinct things.
               | 
               | Agreed, like others, small startup I was with, we were
               | acquired years ago and first advice from IBMers who'd
               | been acquired was that IBM is like 1000 smaller
               | companies.
        
               | kedean wrote:
               | > IBM shouldn't be thought of as a singular company. It
               | is a conglomerate that does widely distinct things.
               | 
               | This. Employees in the various sub-companies and
               | divisions usually don't even know who most of the
               | executive leadership is outside their little world. There
               | is no cohesive "IBM" anymore, and I don't think there has
               | been for a very long time.
        
             | bdelmas wrote:
             | Doing research? Sure... Maybe. But it doesn't mean they are
             | going to get anywhere to mass production... What was their
             | last huge innovation? On top of that I won't give that much
             | credit for what they do or say they do. Remember how much
             | they lied about many of their "innovations" like IBM
             | Watson?
        
               | _zoltan_ wrote:
               | Scanning Tunneling Microscope, high-temperature
               | superconductivity - 2 Nobel prize right there.
               | 
               | Then laser eye surgery, magnetic storage, relational
               | databases, UPC barcodes, DES, FFT, RISC, ...
               | 
               | yeah, almost nothing. /s
               | 
               | disclaimer: I work for IBM Research and I love every
               | second of it.
        
             | Lu2025 wrote:
             | > The R&D they are doing on semiconductors on their 2nm and
             | sub-2nm processes is also impressive and hardcore tech.
             | 
             | But they don't have production. How can they develop
             | successfully without running silicon in a fab?
        
               | zipy124 wrote:
               | They sell the patents to manufacturers. They are an IP
               | shop.
        
         | cr125rider wrote:
         | I hope Hashicorp survives. A few higher ups I've talked to
         | there made it seem like IBM wants to learn from them, not force
         | their old ways onto Hashicorp. We'll see. That one is still
         | pretty new.
        
           | gedy wrote:
           | Not to be cynical but that's said a lot in acquisitions by
           | bigger companies to motivate some people to stay, but just
           | doesn't seem to happen.
        
             | embedding-shape wrote:
             | And even if there is a 20% of executives actually believe
             | in "We should learn from HashiCorp", usually not even that
             | is enough to counter-act the default mode of operation
             | which is squeezing customers. GLHF to remaining HashiCorp
             | believers, but personally I'd try to find alternatives for
             | the software you use from them if you haven't already.
        
               | rdtsc wrote:
               | Executives will say anything to boost the next quarter
               | results. After that they get rebooted and start again,
               | and nothing they said before counts for anything.
        
             | everfrustrated wrote:
             | Usually the internal stakeholder that made the case to
             | acquire the business leaves/gets promoted and new managers
             | come in and start the assimilation process.
        
             | jerlam wrote:
             | And in two years, the acquired management team all leaves
             | like clockwork because they got their retention bonus.
        
             | ljm wrote:
             | For every incredible journey there is an equal and opposite
             | lesson to be learned
        
           | sausagefeet wrote:
           | HCP wasn't any prize when they got bought, though, right?
           | HashiCorp Cloud was more like a fog in terms of growth. A
           | bunch of products got lost a long the way (Boundary?
           | Waypoint?) HCP lost 50% of its IPO value by the time it was
           | bought. Yes, I know IPO's are high and always go down, but it
           | went from around a $14bn valuation to being bought for
           | something like $6.5bn.
        
             | apgwoz wrote:
             | Not to mention HashiCorp bled talent before the acquisition
             | was even announced (BUSL started it) and it didn't really
             | stop as far as I'm aware.
        
             | rdtsc wrote:
             | I never quite figured out why IBM even bought them.
             | Terraform? Wasn't there an open source clone by that point?
        
               | denimnerd42 wrote:
               | terraform and vault are both sticky products
        
           | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
           | They said the same thing about Red Hat. The fact that
           | Whitehurst resigned from IBM should tell you something.
        
             | blcknight wrote:
             | I'm pretty sure Jim had aspirations of being IBM CEO but
             | they picked Arvind instead.
        
               | robszumski wrote:
               | exactly. standard move when you aren't going to get a
               | second shot.
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | My friends at RedHat were embracing similar forms of copium.
           | By now they've all either moved on or are actively hand
           | sitting while exploring options.
        
           | hazmazlaz wrote:
           | Judging from what my contacts say, I would not hold my
           | breath. HCP is going to get smashed by bureaucracy and
           | bigcorp bs just like all other IBM acquisitions. All you have
           | to do to verify this is look at linkedin and track the
           | departures of the the acquired staff.
        
           | rdtsc wrote:
           | They tell that to every company they buy
        
         | gnatman wrote:
         | Pretty bleak, and describes my experience to a T (although
         | involving other companies). Has there ever been an example
         | where a company has been acquired and culture/morale/conditions
         | have actually improved rather than dissolved?
        
           | Romario77 wrote:
           | I wouldn't describe it as improved necessarily, but
           | successfully integrated. This happened many times - youtube
           | by google for example. Facebook acquisitions are pretty
           | successful too (not looking if it was good for humanity, just
           | from business perspective).
           | 
           | Some companies like Amazon buy companies and let them run
           | almost independently - IMDB for example, Zappos, Twitch,
           | Whole Foods, Zoox, Audible.
        
             | chubot wrote:
             | Android was also an acquistion by Google, run relatively
             | separately, and it grew into something huge
        
               | chubot wrote:
               | Uh weird that I got downvotes
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)#
               | His...
               | 
               |  _Android Inc. was founded in Palo Alto, California, in
               | October 2003 by Andy Rubin and Chris White_
               | 
               |  _Google acquired the company in July of [2005] for at
               | least $50 million_
               | 
               | It was ad-supported of course, but it's definitely not
               | similar to IBM acquisitions
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | The Apple acquisition of NeXT has (only half-jokingly) been
           | described as NeXT buying Apple with Apple's money. That's
           | obviously an exceptionally rare case.
        
             | gnatman wrote:
             | I think I've seen people on here describe Google's
             | acquisition of DoubleClick in similar terms--- or at least
             | in the sense that DC's culture infected & somewhat replaced
             | Google culture. I may be misremembering though.
        
         | CharlieDigital wrote:
         | > ...and internal systems they have to use, whose sole purpose
         | is to make sure nobody does anything
         | 
         | I once had to use Lotus Notes after the company I was at was
         | acquired by the now defunct Computer Sciences Corporation. I
         | decided I would never, _ever_ work for another company that
         | used Lotus Notes.
        
           | trollbridge wrote:
           | Hasn't Notes been sluffed off to HCL?
        
             | calgoo wrote:
             | Not OP, they have not tried to sell it to us... yet at
             | least. They are still trying to convince us that MyCloud is
             | a amazing product.
        
           | lisbbb wrote:
           | The worst ever product: IBM FileNet! What an awful product.
           | An acquisition, btw.
        
           | newsoftheday wrote:
           | A lot of people seem to voice a disdain for Notes but I
           | actually liked it for some reason.
        
             | acomjean wrote:
             | Notes was pretty decent as a groupware/ nosql platform.
             | Lotus script wasn't great. I might be biased because my
             | first CS job was to write applications with it.
             | 
             | It felt like they basically tacked on the email
             | functionality to to Notes to sell it, but it always seemed
             | kinda ok to me.
        
             | CoastalCoder wrote:
             | That's because your comment is only 3 levels deep.
             | 
             | Let's revisit this when it's Reply to Reply to Reply to
             | Reply :)
        
         | wetwater wrote:
         | In defense of Byzantines. Their rules and amazing diplomatic
         | prowess is what let them be an empire for so long. The negative
         | connotations to Byzantine comes from the negative perception
         | the west had of them. Byzantines were very practical in regards
         | to who they allied with.
        
           | godzillabrennus wrote:
           | I'm sure the children who watched their parents get murdered
           | before they themselves were taken into slavery during the
           | fall of Constantinople appreciated those rules and the
           | alliances they supported.
        
             | catlover76 wrote:
             | No empire lasts forever. Your sentence could apply to a lot
             | of times and places in the pre-modern era
        
         | godzillabrennus wrote:
         | I've heard IBM is really just an external government agency. If
         | you look at it through the lens of being acquired by a
         | government bureaucracy, then your explanation makes perfect
         | sense. IBM is too entrenched to fail and too poorly run to be
         | acquired.
        
         | diob wrote:
         | Yeah, they acquired the company I worked at and left us alone
         | for a year or two. Each year would get worse though, and each
         | year we swapped nearly all bureaucratic things around. Always a
         | different way to do performance reviews goals, etc.
         | 
         | A lot of the successful projects at the original company are
         | now dead.
         | 
         | It's also weird being in IBM, because if your "contract" ends
         | they put you on the bench. Then you basically have to job hunt
         | within IBM, and if you can't find anything within a month or so
         | you are out. It's super weird.
        
           | tssva wrote:
           | "It's also weird being in IBM, because if your "contract"
           | ends they put you on the bench. Then you basically have to
           | job hunt within IBM, and if you can't find anything within a
           | month or so you are out. It's super weird."
           | 
           | This is standard operating procedure at most
           | consulting/professional services firms.
        
             | newsclues wrote:
             | Also the CIA
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | Sounds similar to university applied research arms too.
               | 
               | GTRI locally hires a lot of non-students to work in its
               | various labs. Its labs then pitch ideas to private
               | companies and the DoD. Sometimes they're solicited
               | directly if the lab is well-known and has a track record
               | of delivering good research-oriented results. They
               | research and build prototypes around various
               | capabilities: robotics, avionics, even classified stuff.
               | 
               | They're always pitching, because contracts end or fall
               | through, and that's the source of everyone's payroll. The
               | labs can even be competitive with one another, and the
               | individual researchers might spend time split between
               | labs.
               | 
               | Academics as a service.
        
             | lisbbb wrote:
             | Yes, the bench sounds great but it is incredibly nerve-
             | wracking and I never liked that aspect of consulting at
             | all. Better to just go to zero pay and be a free agent and
             | if the company finds you another gig, great, but no
             | promises either way.
        
           | Gilthoniel wrote:
           | I don't know how many contracts IBM deals with, but the
           | concept of a bench is very common in government contracting.
           | It helps retain talent in an environment that's more volatile
           | than a typical office. Good for the company to avoid brain
           | drain and hiring overhead, good for the employee because it's
           | a built-in safety net. Much better than your contract ending
           | and immediately being out of a job, especially in today's
           | market
        
             | derefr wrote:
             | I don't think they're objecting to the idea of a bench as
             | an ultimate fallback; I think they're objecting to the idea
             | that there isn't, during such "internal layoffs", a default
             | automatic reassignment of all headcount to other teams. In
             | such cases, you would only land on the bench if you refuse
             | the automatic reassignment.
        
             | system_exit wrote:
             | Longer Bench allowed only for consultant with security
             | clearance as those are such a hard thing to come by.
             | General govt work, they just let you go like in commercial
             | sector.
        
             | lisbbb wrote:
             | Those are the positives. The downside is that the sales
             | team presents you with really lousy contract opportunities
             | and you are pressured to accept one knowing it is a crap
             | assignment that isn't helping your career growth. And you
             | can be stuck on one of those for years!
        
         | justin66 wrote:
         | > They'll meet often at the beginning to relive the glory days
         | of pre-acquisition and recount times where they went went above
         | and beyond for that important early customer.
         | 
         | Yeesh. Which level of hell is that?
        
         | samiv wrote:
         | That's a very cynical take. Unfortunately likely correct.
         | 
         | It's a fact that a publicly traded company is beholden to Wall
         | Street and any time such a company would use their earnings for
         | R&D the P/E and margins go down (i.e. spending more money to
         | earn the same) and this is considered a negative signal at Wall
         | Street and the company gets punished in the market.
         | 
         | So the only way a company can spend their earnings is to pay
         | dividends or buy assets such as other companies, which then
         | must be squeezed for margins.
         | 
         | More here:
         | 
         | https://www.cringely.com/2015/06/03/autodesks-john-walker-ex...
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | There were a series of Dilbert comics that spoke to this.
         | 
         | Dilbert's company buys an "artsy" startup (represented by a
         | chap with a goatee and a ponytail).
         | 
         | Dilbert comments something like "We get your energy and skill,
         | and we provide ... an endless supply of 3-ring binders."
         | 
         | To which the chap replies "I hear that if your name goes into a
         | binder, you lose your soul."
        
         | senderista wrote:
         | I had friends that worked at a high-profile IBM acquisition a
         | decade ago and this is exactly what happened.
        
         | bgro wrote:
         | IBM isn't really a tech company anymore. More of a legal
         | trolling company that cosplays as tech.
         | 
         | They seem to primarily benefit from kickbacks in the form of
         | both leasing and technical contracts for things like opening
         | offices in a location for tax benefits or to promote local
         | economy.
         | 
         | Then they see how far they can cut back their end of the
         | contract after the first few months (e.g. Maybe we agreed to
         | have 500 employees in an office, but since nobody is allowed
         | in, we think we can get away with 100 employees.) Then this
         | turns into trolling about how the contract never defines what
         | in office means so can we offshore... Too much undefined
         | confusion, so I guess we get to break the contract but keep
         | what the mayor paid us... Then they just shut down the office
         | and move on to the next location.
         | 
         | It seems like the local government must be in on these schemes
         | for leasing. Otherwise this wouldn't be going on for decades as
         | it has been.
         | 
         | The other part of business, technical contracts, is similar
         | except instead of leasing it's providing some sort of
         | infrastructure coverage for something big. It starts off with
         | good faith fulfilling the contract. Then a few months later
         | it's like well we have a US military contract that demands US
         | employees but US employees are too expensive. What if we
         | offshore but all the traffic is technically going through a
         | single US employee's computer which is what the contract
         | technically demands.
         | 
         | Then it turns into well we have offshore people working on this
         | anyway, why not just give them direct access and we'll have a
         | US person overseeing them. Lay everyone else off.
         | 
         | Then they see how long they can get away with this until
         | someone gets mad. Then they take one step back to see how close
         | to the technical contract they can get while threatening to
         | abandon the whole thing at the same time.
         | 
         | Along with this sort of atmosphere and attitude for the law, it
         | seems we see them constantly doing everything possible to
         | constantly fire old people or anyone else that has legally
         | protected status. So you'll get statistical analytics on ways
         | to fire protected people based around the constant performance
         | reviews with statistics being used to see how close groups of
         | protected people can be removed without statistically breaking
         | the law. Whatever that algorithm is.
         | 
         | That plays into just straight up cutting people, but it also
         | goes into a lot of other subsystems of skirting the law, like
         | if old people can't relocate as easily then hopping offices and
         | forcing people to relocate 5000 miles is a way they can be
         | eliminated. Part of this might be moving people onto new teams
         | and then saying that team has to be in office for some made up
         | reason, and then firing them for not relocating or using some
         | made up metric like badging timestamps to get them, or some
         | other technicality like leaving for lunch 5 minutes early
         | despite being a salaried employee which is reported as hourly
         | because of tax trolling.
         | 
         | I don't know how IBM still exists because from my perspective
         | it's pretty clear they're breaking or at best on razor thin
         | gray line on ice on just about every possible law you could
         | break.
        
         | nosefurhairdo wrote:
         | I'm with a company that was acquired by IBM ~2.5 years ago. The
         | internal systems are definitely rough, but for the most part
         | it's business as usual.
         | 
         | I've heard chatter from our engineering leadership that IBM is
         | trying to push some silly initiatives, but we've been able to
         | prioritize the right work so far.
         | 
         | I also get more equity (one time award + employee stock
         | purchase plan) than I did previously, and with how IBM stock
         | has been performing lately this has been a net positive for me.
         | 
         | FWIW I have heard that IBM used to force their management style
         | on acquisitions in years past, so perhaps this is a fairly
         | recent shift towards a less hands-on approach.
        
           | bonzini wrote:
           | > FWIW I have heard that IBM used to force their management
           | style on acquisitions in years past
           | 
           | Definitely wasn't like that for Red Hat. We had a CFO with an
           | IBM past which was a really nice guy and never ever felt like
           | he was parachutes from IBM.
           | 
           | Now after 6 years legal, HR and finance will move to IBM
           | starting next January; but my perspective from engineering is
           | that after the acquisition it's been and remains business as
           | usual.
           | 
           | I have no idea how it was for Hashicorp.
        
             | lisbbb wrote:
             | Haven't heard a damn thing about "RedHat" in years, though.
             | It's dead as far as Linux distros go. I'm sure it's used in
             | the IBM-o-sphere, but I'm just not around that at all.
        
               | bonzini wrote:
               | Well I am not sure what other commercial distros you
               | consider to be alive, but Red Hat makes Canonical's
               | yearly revenue in a couple weeks.
               | 
               | Outside IBM land, Meta runs on a CentOS Stream fork.
        
         | viccis wrote:
         | Yep, this is a classic acquisition story. You go from a hungry
         | company out there to fight to succeed and join a big corp where
         | most projects are just endless series of meetings people have
         | about what they want to do without any real timeline or
         | immediate plan to start.
         | 
         | The worst is when your sales team (and all of its super
         | valuable institutional knowledge of your specific market) are
         | cut, and all your management is laid off so that the new corp's
         | managers (who have embedded themselves into the corporate
         | bureaucracy like a trichinosis worm) can treat all your teams
         | as free headcount.
         | 
         | Soon, your company, which was acquired for growth, can't do
         | anything and turns into an albatross around the new corp's
         | neck. So the layoffs begin.
        
         | AMerrit wrote:
         | I worked for a small company acquired by IBM in 2011. We had a
         | good 5-6 year run where our product sales went up (largely
         | because so many IBM people were selling it) and we were largely
         | left alone. Once things slowed down a bit the IBM rot set in
         | quick though. These days I think all that's left is a skeleton
         | crew maintaining the obligatory long term contracts around the
         | main product, every other part of the original company has been
         | picked clean.
        
           | jhallenworld wrote:
           | You can measure it by how many management steps you, as an
           | employee of the recently acquired company are from the CEO in
           | the hierarchy. As time goes on, this number tends to
           | increase. It used to be easy to see this in Lotus Sametime or
           | something that had some form of employee directory.
        
             | framebit wrote:
             | Fun fact: there's an IBM/Lotus Sametime theme song.
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daitUOzVpvc The lyrics
             | rhyme "PC" with "easy."
        
               | jhallenworld wrote:
               | That's awesome. Before ~2007 they allowed you to use
               | open-source Pidgin to connect to the Domino servers. A
               | friend of mine and I used it to make a bot: if you
               | sametimed me, you got Zork.
               | 
               | It reminds me of another IBM IT rule: they wanted your
               | chat history (and email) older than two years to be all
               | deleted for legal liability reasons. It was important to
               | save your sametime chat history (an XML file) and export
               | your email periodically if you wanted to keep this stuff.
               | 
               | This was actually better than Slack in one way- you could
               | grep the files for things, and not have to rely on search
               | within the tool.
        
         | methuselah_in wrote:
         | This is what is happening with red hat also?
        
         | jhallenworld wrote:
         | >mind boggling Byzantine rules
         | 
         | Hint: by all means possible, make sure you are not the owner of
         | (or manager of the person who owns) any assets beyond your
         | personal laptop. If, for example, you end up being the owner of
         | all the development and test servers of the original company,
         | then it will become your responsibility to ensure that each OS
         | (of each LPAR of each VM) is security compliant, is running the
         | end-point asset manager, and has up to date OS patches, that
         | the DASD is encrypted, and you must periodically show physical
         | proof that the asset still exists and indicate where it's
         | located- photos of assets tags or whatever. It will be your
         | responsibility to dispose of the asset (with all associated
         | paperwork) at the end of its life.
         | 
         | It helps if such machines are not actually on the 9. network,
         | or are behind an internal firewall (then they don't care about
         | the security compliance as much).
        
           | numbsafari wrote:
           | ... isn't this... what you should be doing already?
        
             | jhallenworld wrote:
             | Probably, but now it's going to be formalized and will
             | entail a lot of paperwork (manual entry on many very badly
             | written JAVA-based CRUD applications). Sure, these things
             | are all good ideas, but trust me, they have all been
             | overthought. Do you want this to be your job?
        
             | lII1lIlI11ll wrote:
             | > ... isn't this... what you should be doing already?
             | 
             | I still "own" (i.e. I'm the sole user with a root access
             | and can install OS of my choosing) an old machine from the
             | days before everything moved to a cloud and guess no one
             | from IT has got to decommission it yet. I'm have no idea
             | where it is located (besides knowing which office it is
             | assigned to), never saw it, no way in hell am going to
             | attach any tags and waste my time to install enterprise
             | spyware on it or manually encrypt it's data. Do engineers
             | do that for development servers on your job? If yes, name
             | and shame!
        
         | ljm wrote:
         | This feels like the kind of post you can only write with sombre
         | experience.
        
       | shrubble wrote:
       | IBM is buying market share, not a surprise; at least one telecom
       | has all their Kafka stuff on the Confluent cloud, and there must
       | be 1000s of such customers.
        
       | theta_d wrote:
       | I worked for IBM Cloud about 6+ years ago. While there, we had to
       | connect to a Softlayer VPN to get into our Jira instance. My VPN
       | account and Jira account never got provisioned so I couldn't
       | connect nor see the Jira board. My team-mates couldn't even
       | assign a ticket to me b/c of this. They would just put my
       | initial's in the ticket summary and send me a slack of the
       | details.
       | 
       | It was right before I left that we got our own Jira instance.
       | This was all around the time of the Red Hat acquisition. I
       | remember the announcement b/c we used SuSE for everything IIRC.
        
         | askafriend wrote:
         | Why didn't you ask to get the accounts provisioned?
        
           | Reubachi wrote:
           | I imagine that's done via JIRA tcket/IT before onboarding.
           | 
           | So if they somehow can get past initial device
           | deployment/user account logon, and get other resources IE;
           | slack....well that speaks to how difficult/pointless it would
           | be to get proper VPN/Jira access.
        
             | theta_d wrote:
             | I believe it was an ancient ServiceNow incantation that all
             | the current employees couldn't seem to hunt down.
        
           | esafak wrote:
           | You'd have to be able to find the person to do that first
           | hehe!
        
           | ecshafer wrote:
           | What's the largest company you've worked for? A lot of big,
           | older companies, are just so messed up that its just not
           | worth it. How do you do this? Well you have to find the
           | specific form, or specific person who does the thing, who is
           | that? no one knows. So that provisioning of a vpn and getting
           | in jira might literally be like a month of work.
        
             | thinkingtoilet wrote:
             | I've worked for S&P Global, so pretty large. If you don't
             | have an account that you need, then you need to be
             | tenacious, which of course is super annoying. If you don't
             | have an account on a system you should, it's 100% on you
             | after a while.
        
           | prmoustache wrote:
           | I work for a company that has so much bureaucracy and silos
           | that teams maintain wiki pages with links and routing on how
           | to create tickets for specific tasks and wether there is a
           | specific mandatory information needed in order to not have
           | your ticket just closed as incomplete without an explanation.
           | 
           | Sometimes a team unilaterally decide to change the process,
           | info is sent to a random number of mailbox/managers who may
           | fail to pass the info. Some entire teams just put themselves
           | in away status 24/7 and do not respond to direct messages.
           | 
           | So yes I can believe his story. Sometimes in these kind of
           | companies you just don't know who and how to ask for
           | something and you just hope someone knows someone who might
           | know.
        
           | Zigurd wrote:
           | On consulting engagements, 0% of the time are Jira and git
           | provisioned correctly for an outside consultant. I used to be
           | appalled at being paid for two or three days of waiting for
           | the IT guy to fix this. Now I use the time to find cleaning
           | supplies and deep clean my cubicle and chair. People do look
           | at me funny, but I feel better not just sitting there
           | reading.
        
           | theta_d wrote:
           | I did, multiple times. I was a contractor. I was the only one
           | on my team of contractors whose account was screwed up. There
           | seemed to be no priority to do anything there. One of many
           | many reasons I left when I could.
        
           | bongodongobob wrote:
           | I had a similar thing happen to me with a huge company as a
           | contractor. I couldn't work for 3 weeks due to a combination
           | of login issues and permissions settings. Couldn't file a
           | ticket and no one was really sure who to call/ask. Finally a
           | director caught wind of it and knew who to talk to.
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | How is this different from Apache Qpid or RabbitMQ or IBM MQ (at
       | least the first and third of those is already owned by IBM!)
        
         | orthoxerox wrote:
         | If you're serious, Kafka is a topic-centric message bus.
         | Everything is a topic, not a queue, and its internals are
         | optimized to achieve very quick at-least-once delivery.
        
       | ekropotin wrote:
       | Could anyone please explain what IBM is even doing these days?
       | Where revenue is coming from?
        
         | stuff4ben wrote:
         | it's a public company, read the quarterly reports
        
       | hjaveed wrote:
       | good for the founding team! Kafka is an enterprise bloat. most of
       | the queueing solutions could be built with something much simpler
        
       | gtirloni wrote:
       | If Apache Foundation is where open source projects go to die (a
       | bit unfair though), IBM is the equivalent for for-profit
       | companies.
        
         | deniscoady wrote:
         | _If Apache Foundation is where open source projects go to die
         | ..._
         | 
         | I can't think of a better place for longevity of open source
         | projects than Apache (maybe I'm out of the loop?).
         | 
         | Compare it to the Linux Foundation where everything is a single
         | commercial vendor sponsored project. At lease Apache requires
         | independent governance and a diverse ecosystem before the
         | project graduates.
         | 
         | Am I missing something with the Apache Foundation?
        
       | belter wrote:
       | This is so funny. Now CNBC says "...The addition of Confluence
       | will strengthen IBM's artificial intelligence portfolio..."
       | 
       | Since when is streaming event logs AI? Am I taking crazy pills?
        
         | CyanLite2 wrote:
         | Near-Real-time inference is a hot thing these days with Apache
         | Flink, which is commercially supported by Confluent (not
         | Confluence)
        
         | 9dev wrote:
         | Haven't got the memo? Everything computing is AI now. If you
         | want to sell it, that is.
        
       | rileymichael wrote:
       | ibm also acquired datastax (managed pulsar) this year. building
       | on top of these specialized managed service providers is becoming
       | increasingly risky. at this point i'd rather use one of the
       | kneecapped cloud provider offerings if possible (azure event hubs
       | / aws msk / etc.) than risk being extorted in a few years as the
       | result of some acquisition. at least you can work around the
       | limitations..
       | 
       | anyone have an idea on how streamnative is doing? we're
       | considering them for managed pulsar and unfortunately nobody else
       | is in the game
        
         | DebtDeflation wrote:
         | And two years prior IBM acquired Ahana (PrestoDB SaaS). Totally
         | agree that businesses need to much more carefully assess the
         | risks of moving to these hosted open source platforms. Reminds
         | me of when over a decade ago companies moved to Snowflake for
         | their DWs because "our Teradata costs are out of control".
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Some market reaction
       | 
       |  _Confluent stock soars 29% as IBM announces $11B acquisition
       | deal_
       | 
       | https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/08/ibm-confluent-deal-data.html
        
       | jarym wrote:
       | Let the Bluewashing begin. Everything will be WebSphere-first and
       | then WebSphere-only.
        
       | jcims wrote:
       | IBM was teabagging the Hasicorp booth at re:Invent with
       | conspicuously old hardware set out like a museum piece. Ugh.
        
         | umanwizard wrote:
         | What does this mean?
        
           | edm0nd wrote:
           | I read it as purposely making the booth unattractive or
           | bland? not sure either haha
        
       | Zigurd wrote:
       | It's like how lots of species evolve into crabs, or crab like
       | things. Instead of dying out evolutionarily, failed giants like
       | IBM evolve into Computer Associates.
        
       | semessier wrote:
       | the price sounds a little bit high from a technical perspective
        
       | purplezooey wrote:
       | Adjacent space, but can't help but wonder why Confluent did so
       | much better than MapR
        
         | btown wrote:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20053188 and
         | https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252468013/MapR-collapse-...
         | have some context on MapR's demise.
         | 
         | IMO they were simultaneously worse situated for near-real-time
         | stream processing and for S3-esque cloud storage, areas Kafka
         | and Confluent excelled.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-12-08 23:00 UTC)