[HN Gopher] Framework Laptop 13 gets ARM processor with 12 cores...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Framework Laptop 13 gets ARM processor with 12 cores via upgrade
       kit
        
       Author : woodrowbarlow
       Score  : 250 points
       Date   : 2025-12-05 15:49 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.notebookcheck.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.notebookcheck.net)
        
       | woodrowbarlow wrote:
       | here's the actual listing:
       | https://metacomputing.io/products/metacomputing-arm-aipc
       | 
       | i posted the article instead because it has some details that
       | aren't on the listing.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | It also has basically no details. What even is the difference
         | between the Standard and Pro offering at twice the price?
        
           | hecanjog wrote:
           | It looks like the pro is the version with the full framework
           | laptop chassis, battery, etc, and the standard is the version
           | in the coolermaster case. (The black one with antennas on
           | top)
        
       | cmrdporcupine wrote:
       | These Snapdragon X processors have some drama around not having
       | decent Linux support, right?
       | 
       | EDIT: Sorry, not SnapdragonX - apparently I can't read.
       | 
       | Also, who is "MetaComputing" and can I trust them with my money?
       | Something about the big "Web 3 Integrated Devices" branding on
       | their landing page makes me less than enthusiastic. Otherwise I'd
       | be hovering over 'buy'
        
         | celrod wrote:
         | They're 8x A720 + 4x M520, not Snapdragon X.
        
         | tencentshill wrote:
         | They are selling a configuration that costs $810.00 on
         | Framework's website for only $549.00. Zero actual info on the
         | about page or Google. I would treat it with suspicion at best.
        
           | ndiddy wrote:
           | They're just selling the motherboard on its own, not a whole
           | laptop. To make if a complete system, you'd have to buy a
           | laptop chassis from Framework's parts site and install the
           | motherboard yourself.
        
             | evanjrowley wrote:
             | You can get a whole laptop if you purchase the "Pro" option
             | that comes with the Framework 13 chassis:
             | https://metacomputing.io/products/metacomputing-arm-aipc
        
         | izacus wrote:
         | This isn't a Snapdragon though.
        
           | cmrdporcupine wrote:
           | Oh, crap, guess it helps if I read next time.
        
       | emmp wrote:
       | No interest in this exactly, but I am interested in the idea that
       | third parties are now targeting the Framework form factor
       | explicitly to sell upgrades/replacements outside of the Framework
       | marketplace.
        
         | browningstreet wrote:
         | My first thought was, "How many units could they possibly
         | expect to sell given this target?"
        
           | cmrdporcupine wrote:
           | Sounds like the board also somehow works inside a mini-itx
           | chassis or something?
        
             | clhodapp wrote:
             | It's not standard mini-itx. Since the physical form factors
             | for their laptop boards are published publicly and are
             | somewhat stable, are "desktop" cases for them.
        
             | throwuxiytayq wrote:
             | Given it's a Framework 13 mainboard, you can probably put
             | it in any Framework 13-compatible enclosure:
             | 
             | https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case
             | https://frame.work/products/framework-laptop-13-mainboard-
             | ho... https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-
             | Laptop-13
             | 
             | etc., lots of designs available.
        
               | nish__ wrote:
               | Wow. That's amazing truly. They really are entirely open
               | source. You can even 3D print one.
        
               | bsimpson wrote:
               | The Legion Go is basically that with some joycons and a
               | screen. I keep mine in my entertainment center when I'm
               | not using it handheld, and play plastic instrument games
               | on the big screen.
               | 
               | Looks like this would be an easy entry point to a DIY
               | Steam Machine that takes up ~no space under your TV.
        
           | Someone wrote:
           | FTA: _"the company has introduced a mainboard that can be
           | installe in the Framework Laptop 13 or in a mini PC case"_
           | 
           | = their market likely isn't enormous, but it is larger than
           | that of Framework Laptop owners.
        
         | dontlaugh wrote:
         | That is interesting.
         | 
         | I wish someone made a keyboard that doesn't suck, ideally split
         | as well.
        
           | thebigspacefuck wrote:
           | https://blog.perprogramming.com/posts/framework-
           | ortholinear-...
        
             | dontlaugh wrote:
             | Yes, something like that. Ideally for a reasonably sized
             | 13-14" laptop.
        
             | lawn wrote:
             | Very cool!
             | 
             | Although to be pedantic, that's not an "ortholinear"
             | keyboard (as in a square grid) rather a keyboard with
             | column stagger (which you should use).
             | 
             | I wonder if you could make it for a FW13 too? I know QMK
             | doesn't work for 13.
             | 
             | Edit: I see now that it uses a separate microcontroller, so
             | yes if you could make it fit then it should work.
        
               | evanjrowley wrote:
               | It also bothers me that the meaning of "ortholinear" has
               | been lost, but at least it's a sign that the hobby has
               | grown to a certain point.
        
               | dontlaugh wrote:
               | It should be possible to make a dumb version of such a
               | keyboard wired the same as the stock one, just with the
               | keys moved around. It would need some OS configuration to
               | be truly useful, though.
        
           | einpoklum wrote:
           | Just made a top-level comment about the same thing.
           | 
           | A big part of the core functionality of a laptop, as opposed
           | to a PC, is is that of a typewriter:
           | 
           | * Notes in class
           | 
           | * Minutes in a meeting
           | 
           | * Entries in a journal or travelogue
           | 
           | * Writing the next great novel
           | 
           | etc.
           | 
           | Why have manufacturers simply taken that away from us, in
           | favor of a terrible excuse with ridiculous tactile feedback?
        
             | dontlaugh wrote:
             | I actually like short travel very light linear switches,
             | mechanical or not.
             | 
             | I don't like row stagger and non-split keyboards, for
             | ergonomic reasons. That's definitely a niche preference,
             | but if anyone would cater to it you'd expect it to be
             | Framework or similar.
        
               | einpoklum wrote:
               | You're right that Framework is exactly where I would
               | expect flexibility on this: I mean, just looking at their
               | landing page - you see a laptop without the keyboard and
               | ports. Framework offers 176 (!) kinds of "keyboards":
               | 
               | https://frame.work/marketplace/keyboards
               | 
               | but not one decent keyboard. Why?
               | 
               | (Answer: it's basically just keyboard covers, and the
               | many options are due to variations of colors and
               | languages. But I would take a hot pink / toxic green
               | keyboard with ancient tibetan labels if the keys were
               | non-chicklet, with decent travel, sizes, and feedback. 7
               | rows if possible.)
        
           | ratrocket wrote:
           | Similar to a sibling comment, and perhaps not really
           | applicable (since this isn't a company making something
           | people can buy...), but the MNT Reform is amenable to fitting
           | a custom/ergonomic keyboard also (I hadn't seen the Framework
           | in the sibling comment, it looks very cool!).
           | 
           | I don't know how to link to it directly, but midway down this
           | article there's a picture and some more links of an MNT
           | Reform (apparently completely home-built) with a very cool,
           | "thumb-centric", column staggered ergo keyboard:
           | 
           | https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2022-07-01-july-
           | update.htm...
           | 
           | (search for "More great mods from the community..." heading
           | if interested)
           | 
           | I would very much like to have a keyboard like either of
           | those on my laptop. The stares you'd get when in public!!
        
         | roughly wrote:
         | Yeah, there's a lot of critiques of the product/packaging/etc,
         | but this feels like huge validation of the Framework model -
         | this is an unrelated 3rd party looking to get a chip in
         | consumer hands who decided to use the FW chassis. That's
         | Exactly what we all were hoping for when Framework first
         | launched.
        
           | NewJazz wrote:
           | Yeah this is what annoyed me about Pine64's Pinebook Pro 2
           | plans... No upgrade kits, they wanted to completely change
           | the form factor!
           | 
           | The chassis of my PBP is great (brittle plastic
           | notwithstanding)! That's the last thing I want to replace in
           | the device.
        
         | samrus wrote:
         | Exactly. This is exactly we get in return for compromising on
         | quality and price with framework. Other tech is cheaper because
         | of planned obsolescence or lock in. Im glad to pay more money
         | to have this freedom
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | Its about time, I hope System76 comes up with their own version
         | of the Framework laptop, because I would love to buy a laptop
         | where I can swap out all internals, motherboard etc. but I
         | really also want to work with System76 because I love what they
         | are doing with POP_OS! (though I prefer arch these days, I can
         | still use their Desktop environment etc) and love that they
         | make Linux hardware specifically.
         | 
         | We have needed a "Jeep of Laptops" for a while, maybe someone
         | needs to spec out a fully open source design that any
         | manufacturer can target.
        
           | shkkmo wrote:
           | > We have needed a "Jeep of Laptops" for a while, maybe
           | someone needs to spec out a fully open source design that any
           | manufacturer can target.
           | 
           | I'm not sure if this counts in your book, but releasing all
           | this stuff is closer than anyone else is to that dream.
           | 
           | > https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-16
        
           | adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
           | Honestly a Framework+System76 merger would make a lot of
           | sense. System76 cares about the software but uses
           | whitelabeled hardware. Framework has done excellent hardware
           | engineering but doesn't care much about the software.
        
             | joombaga wrote:
             | I don't know that it's fair to say Framework don't care
             | much about the software. Their oldest devices are still
             | getting firmware updates. At any rate, Pop!_OS runs very
             | well on Framework Laptops (though I use Arch + Hyprland, w/
             | Windows on their storage expansion card).
        
             | TheCraiggers wrote:
             | That's a bit of a hot take considering all the donations
             | they've been making to OSS projects. Sure, maybe they're
             | not making Yet Another Distro but they're donating to and
             | upstreamimg patches to things that everyone (including
             | PopOS) uses.
             | 
             | To me, that's far from not caring about the software.
             | Especially when you compare to other vendors like Pine.
        
           | blacksmith_tb wrote:
           | You can always just throw money at them for Pop!_OS[1] (which
           | is what I did when I bought my Framework 13 and installed Pop
           | on it).
           | 
           | 1: https://system76.com/donate/
        
         | legitronics wrote:
         | There's also this RISC V thing, I ordered one in July and got
         | mine in November.
         | 
         | I could transplant the desktop model I got into my original
         | framework, but I haven't attempted it.
         | 
         | https://store.deepcomputing.io/products/dc-roma-ai-pc-risc-v...
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Apple: "We can't make great products if we don't completely
         | control everything"
         | 
         | Framework: "Let us show you how it is done!"
        
       | ndiddy wrote:
       | This board uses the CIX CP8180 SoC, which has worse performance
       | and significantly worse efficiency than even Apple's M1 chip. See
       | Jeff Geerling's review of a desktop with this SoC:
       | https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2025/minisforum-stuffs-ent...
       | If you need an ARM Linux laptop, it's probably a better choice to
       | get a used M1 or M2 MacBook Pro and put Fedora Asahi on it.
        
         | cmrdporcupine wrote:
         | Yeah, or if you don't mind something with performance this low,
         | the RK3588 has much better kernel support (I have a couple
         | here) and there's some companies offering laptop format for
         | those now.
         | 
         | But as much as I love the RK3588 it's very much in the "low
         | perf utility SBC" world than "good performing general PC". I
         | use my two boards for NAS, Plex, Forgejo CI builders, etc.
         | 
         | I do recall that Jeff Geerling I think had some followup with
         | that board that perhaps there could be firmware changes that
         | improve the power efficiency later maybe?
        
           | bpye wrote:
           | I have an MNT Pocket Reform with an RK3588 and I do like the
           | device, but yeah, it can be a little sluggish at times.
           | 
           | It is very usable for email, editing documents, code review,
           | etc - but it will struggle if you're trying to multitask
           | heavily.
           | 
           | This CIX SoC is a fair bit faster than the RK3588 though I
           | believe.
        
             | cmrdporcupine wrote:
             | There's an RK3688 coming next year (hopefully?) which looks
             | like a perf bump.
        
         | chrisweekly wrote:
         | Apple hardware, yes. Fedora Asahi, maybe. OrbStack^1 provides
         | awesome flexibility and DX/UX, w/ minimal footprint.
         | 
         | 1. https://orbstack.dev/
        
           | signa11 wrote:
           | it doesn't do gui afaik.
        
           | metadat wrote:
           | Orbstack is just a less bug-ridden implementation of
           | Docker4Mac, not really pertinent or earth shattering for
           | running desktop apps on the daily.
           | 
           | What's wrong with Asahi?
        
             | dpc_01234 wrote:
             | Is _everything_ working? Last time I put Linux on a x86_64
             | Air Book I was given for free, everything was working
             | _except_ resume from suspend would crash and reboot the
             | system, and from the reading on it, it seems it is a know
             | issue due to T4 security chip or something. Made me believe
             | that if older chips doesn't yet work, the newer ones
             | probably have more caveats. Or am I wrong?
             | 
             | Generally I'm reluctant investing in Linux on a hardware
             | from company more or less hostile to it, but I also don't
             | have any need for ARM laptop, and I'm happy with my
             | Framework.
        
               | philistine wrote:
               | > more or less hostile to it
               | 
               | I wouldn't say the problem is hostility. It's complete
               | non-interest. Apple wisely allowed us to load a non-
               | chain-of-trust OS while maintaining the chain of trust in
               | macOS, which is an incredible advancement still unmatched
               | by other manufacturers.
               | 
               | And that's it. They have done zero work to accommodate
               | Linux. At all. Perhaps if Microsoft ever figures out that
               | NT used to run on more than one arch, Apple will revive
               | Boot Camp for Windows and deem it useful to include Linux
               | this time?
        
               | thewebguyd wrote:
               | > Apple will revive Boot Camp for Windows and deem it
               | useful to include Linux this time?
               | 
               | If Apple wanted to, they could already do that right now.
               | Windows runs on arm just fine. Heck, windows on Arm in a
               | parallels VM runs better on my macbook pro than it does
               | natively on an x86 laptop.
               | 
               | If Apple would make some drivers, even just for Windows,
               | I bet they'd sell more macs. But it would seem Apple
               | either calculated that ecosystem/services lock-in is way
               | more important to them than a potential boost in hardware
               | sales for alternative OSes, or they are really reluctant
               | to make drivers for Apple Silicon available elsewhere out
               | of fear it'll expose some trade secrets, which they
               | didn't have to worry about when they used intel.
        
               | Aurornis wrote:
               | > If Apple would make some drivers, even just for
               | Windows, I bet they'd sell more macs.
               | 
               | The incremental bump in sales would be very small.
               | 
               | Even when Apple did provide bootcamp drivers to run
               | Windows on old laptops, very few people used it as their
               | daily driver for a Windows computer. I'm sure Apple has a
               | better estimate of the market for people who bought Macs
               | to use with alternative OSes back when they supported it,
               | but they've calculated that it's not worth the effort.
        
               | philistine wrote:
               | The problem is indeed Windows. Could you point me to
               | where you can legally buy a Windows for ARM licence?
        
               | thewebguyd wrote:
               | You can buy it from the Microsoft Store inside of windows
               | once its installed. That's how it works with parallels,
               | or any other Windows on Arm device (say, for upgrading
               | from Home to Pro).
        
               | aseipp wrote:
               | The Macbook M2 Air running Asahi Linux is easily my
               | favorite Linux laptop ever, far superior to any Thinkpad
               | or Dell XPS I've owned, imo. I think things like
               | Thunderbolt and some DisplayPort features are missing,
               | but I have never needed this as it is purely a laptop for
               | me. But it has everything else I could want:
               | suspend/sleep, proper frequency scaling, great GPU
               | drivers, USB/wifi/bluetooth, speakers,
               | brightness/keyboard settings, etc. The webcam works I
               | think but I haven't tried it. The battery life is great,
               | though macOS is still quite a ways ahead in that
               | department.
        
               | e12e wrote:
               | > "Some DisplayPort"? There's still no HDMI/video out on
               | the M2 air under Linux? No Ethernet 1 or 10gps?
               | 
               | I'd advise buying a MacBook air m1 over an m2 if the goal
               | is to run Linux...
               | 
               | https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/feature-support/m2/
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | > What's wrong with Asahi?
             | 
             | ...all the missing support?
        
         | nottorp wrote:
         | But has Asashi managed to have support for bells and whistles
         | like graphics acceleration and sleep by now?
         | 
         | This SoC may actually have Linux drivers.
        
           | bpye wrote:
           | Graphics acceleration yes - and more fully featured than
           | Panfrost for Mali at that, but I think sleep is still just
           | s2idle.
        
           | dllu wrote:
           | It does have graphics acceleration and you can even play AAA
           | titles with fex [1] since last year. But many bells and
           | whistles still don't work --- for example, the video decoding
           | hardware, proper sleep, etc.
           | 
           | Anyway, I've been using it on my Macbook Air M2 and it works
           | fine for my use case [3]. Pretty smooth.
           | 
           | [1] https://rosenzweig.io/blog/aaa-gaming-on-m1.html
           | 
           | [3] https://daniel.lawrence.lu/blog/2024-12-01-asahi-linux-
           | with-...
        
             | nottorp wrote:
             | > proper sleep
             | 
             | :(
             | 
             | The one feature that only works properly when using both
             | Apple hardware and software...
        
         | 650REDHAIR wrote:
         | I want to support and encourage companies that aren't Apple.
        
         | beeflet wrote:
         | Asashi is a project built on sand. I'm not giving apple a dime
        
           | Melonai wrote:
           | Maybe, but it works quite well for me, so to each their own!
           | :)
           | 
           | Can't seem to get DP Alt Mode to work on my used 2021 M1 Pro
           | though, even though it's listed as supported with an
           | asterisk, maybe someone here has managed it?
           | 
           | (Also, if you're buying used and wiping MacOS are you truly
           | giving Apple a dime? I guess it's a matter of perspective.)
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | Which means it also has worse efficiency than the current
         | generation of AMD chips on offer for the Framework 13.
         | 
         | Unfortunately, I fear the biggest oversight of the Framework 13
         | is that the chassis was designed for a battery that's just a
         | lot smaller than its competition.
         | 
         | I would actually love a Framework 14 to sit between the 13 and
         | 16 and have it be focused more on packing in a big battery
         | rather some of the advantages that the 13 and 16 have at
         | present. Or, perhaps a Framework 13 chassis redesign that tries
         | to maintain backward/forward compatibility but adds some extra
         | room for larger batteries.
         | 
         | I will say, the 13 is so light that, technically, carrying a
         | spare power bank around plus the laptop is about the same
         | weight as a MacBook Pro 14", so as long as you're cool with
         | that little extra space used in your backpack I don't find the
         | short battery life to be too big a of a deal. Plus, having a
         | giant battery with you tends to come in handy.
        
       | csdreamer7 wrote:
       | https://metacomputing.io/products/metacomputing-arm-aipc
       | 
       | Save you a click or two. Looking at this I have so many
       | questions. Am I buying a mainboard? It is not clear. It lists
       | ports: it only supports 2 ports? You have four options with
       | 16/32gigs and 1tb of storage? Is the storage soldiered? If so,
       | what is the storage? emmc? Soldiered memory seems to be a given
       | in the ARM ecosystem, but the storage is completely unacceptable
       | on a framework mainboard.
       | 
       | The only difference between the pro and the regular is that the
       | second port is a usb-c over an hdmi? I am assuming this is the
       | mainboard even supporting framework extension cards.
       | 
       | No listed Linux compatibility support. Forget if the NPU even
       | works in Linux; I do not even know if this will boot Linux
       | because the company did not bother to submit devicetree patches
       | to the kernel for their SOC. No listed Windows support even.
       | 
       | This company's copy is absolutely terrible.
        
         | woodrowbarlow wrote:
         | my impression was the "pro" is the same board but comes with a
         | framework 13 chassis, but yeah the lack of explicit details
         | does not inspire confidence.
        
       | mtklein wrote:
       | This is astonishingly bad power usage for a laptop, a complete
       | dealbreaker: "...early tests show that the SoC already draws
       | about 16 watts at idle..."
        
         | antonkochubey wrote:
         | For some context, my 12-core Intel laptop consumes 1.5 to 2
         | watts at idle for the SoC. Apple M silicon might consume even
         | less.
        
         | bigyabai wrote:
         | > upgrade kit
         | 
         | > makes your laptop slower
         | 
         | Hmm...
        
         | cuu508 wrote:
         | yeah, that is impressively bad. Perhaps a reporting error and
         | it is 16W at full tilt?
        
         | gary_0 wrote:
         | Maybe it's a typo and it's 1.6W.
        
       | MBCook wrote:
       | So this isn't an _official_ thing, this is a 3rd party selling a
       | replacement motherboard, is that right?
        
         | toshinoriyagi wrote:
         | Correct, it's not sold by Framework, but is a replacement
         | mainboard sold by a 3rd party. I think that is one of the big
         | appeals of a modular laptop like Framework, though. You can
         | create an ecosystem around it, customize, and not be locked in
         | to just what the primary manufacturer makes.
        
           | MBCook wrote:
           | Yeah it's a good feature. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't
           | misreading the situation.
        
       | znpy wrote:
       | I'm curious to see battery life reports over this. Chances are
       | these arm chips will not be beating intel/amd on battery life.
       | 
       | Also worth looking at battery life compared to performance...
        
       | 999900000999 wrote:
       | I don't have much faith in Arm Linux. Tuxedo gave up.
       | 
       | Cheap Windows Arm laptops are flooding the market, if someone can
       | pick ONE laptop to support they could easily buy them on sale ,
       | refurbished them with Linux and make a profit.
       | 
       | Looks likes their are some challenges with doing this.
        
         | winterqt wrote:
         | Supposedly the ARM ThinkPads are alright on Linux.
        
           | jonkoops wrote:
           | Not really. The drivers are not upstream, so it only works
           | well on specially made Ubuntu spins that carry out of tree
           | patches and random binary blobs. It is really still quite a
           | mess at the moment.
        
             | danans wrote:
             | > It is really still quite a mess at the moment.
             | 
             | Integration, testing, and support are all expensive. Right
             | or wrong, that's a reason why if a laptop "just works"
             | (like a Mac, Windows Thinkpad, or a Chromebook), it
             | probably has proprietary binaries.
             | 
             | Also, if you aren't paying for the OS (via the hardware
             | it's coupled with), you can't expect the OS to have the
             | benefits of tight hardware integration.
             | 
             | Even Framework laptops use proprietary boot firmware, and
             | they've been pretty clear that they only provide support
             | for Ubuntu and Fedora, not the alphabet soup of other Linux
             | desktop distros.
        
         | embedding-shape wrote:
         | > I don't have much faith in Arm Linux. Tuxedo gave up.
         | 
         | I was also slowly loosing hope, although I do still run some
         | NixOS ARM Raspberry PIs. But with the recent Valve backing, I'm
         | back on the train again, and eagerly awaiting the slow but
         | steady improvements, and figuring out where I can contribute
         | back.
        
         | blisstonia wrote:
         | They probably gave up on their Snapdragon X efforts as
         | Snapdragon X2 Elite was nipping at their heels and they'd have
         | a redundant device by the time their efforts came to market.
        
         | alecsm wrote:
         | Valve is gonna save the day once again.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Running Windows stuff.....
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | I quite prefer that to the alternative of _not_ running
             | Windows stuff.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | Thing is, that strengths Windows market relevance, as IBM
               | learnt with OS/2 and its Windows compatibility.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | Good. I love exploiting Windows' market relevance, it's
               | rather fun and engaging.
        
             | alecsm wrote:
             | I don't use Windows but I do run a lot of software made
             | only for Windows. I don't see any problem with that.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | Until the fountain runs dry, because the kingdom lords
               | diverted the river from Valve's well castle.
        
               | alecsm wrote:
               | I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.
               | 
               | Valve is pushing mostly open source to expand to other
               | platforms which is a win win for everybody.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | That would be true if they were actually making devs
               | embrace SteamOS.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | They are. You're mad that Valve isn't militantly
               | enforcing Linux-native games, which is nonsense. The OG
               | Steam Machine did that and was DOA.
               | 
               | Thousands of game studios are gone now, and supporting
               | their software is important legacy work. You don't have
               | to appreciate that, but I do. I do not give the _faintest
               | fuck_ about the opportunity cost you bemoan towards
               | native UNIX games when I do this. That 's your problem,
               | not mine.
        
             | 650REDHAIR wrote:
             | Isn't Valve's new VR headset running ARM?
             | 
             | I have faith!
        
           | alimbada wrote:
           | I was about to comment to say that unless Valve is prepared
           | to invest significant effort into an x86 -> ARM translation
           | layer that's not going to happen but a quick search for
           | "linux x86 to arm translation" led me to an XDA article[1]
           | proving me wrong. The recently announced Steam Frame runs on
           | ARM and can run x86 games directly using using something
           | called FEX.
           | 
           | Now we just need to be as good as (or better than) Apple's
           | Rosetta.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.xda-developers.com/arm-translation-layer-
           | steam-f...
        
             | alecsm wrote:
             | From yesterday:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46126446
        
         | darksaints wrote:
         | Honestly, I don't have much faith in _Linux_ anymore, and it
         | has everything to do with the explosion of the kernel 's
         | codebase due to the explosion of cheaper devices running linux
         | and the (admittedly difficult) management issues surrounding
         | the kernel. I feel like from a security perspective, macos is a
         | better choice and that pains me as a long time linux user.
         | 
         | Can we please move on to microkernels already? I'm fine with a
         | tiny performance hit, I just don't want to get rooted because I
         | plugged in the wrong USB stick.
        
           | bigyabai wrote:
           | You can use microkernels whenever you want. Just be aware
           | that they typically have the same issues with zombie/cruft
           | code and aren't necessarily more secure for every
           | application.
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | I want a 4TB SSD.
           | 
           | To do that on a MacBook I'm spending a minimum of 3200$.
           | 
           | If you have unlimited money ( or can expense it) a 3200$ to
           | 4k MacBook is going to be the best experience money can buy.
           | 
           | If you have limited funds, a 200$ used computer can get the
           | job done with the right distro.
        
           | bayindirh wrote:
           | If you don't want to go macOS route and want to leave Linux
           | world, your destination would be FreeBSD or OpenBSD.
           | 
           | On the other hand, if you're not running Wine, you can't get
           | autorun virii from USB drives, plus the Windows virii just
           | lives there and can't do anything.
        
             | eigencoder wrote:
             | What about plan9? ;)
        
               | ggm wrote:
               | Plan9 is like ocean yacht racing. If you have to ask
               | about the "cost" you aren't the target market.
               | 
               | Plan9 is like writing. You either do it, or talk about
               | doing it. I'm talking not doing btw. I tried, but I got
               | stuck on trivial things and the barrier to asking for
               | help over 2+2= is high. (No offence intended. The 9 heads
               | aren't interested in running a kindergarden)
        
         | kidfiji wrote:
         | Valve seems to be putting a lot of resources into this area for
         | their Steam Frame
        
         | tensor wrote:
         | Do you mean "desktop arm linux"? Because AWS, Google, and
         | others all run Linux on their arm servers and that market
         | segment is only growing.
        
           | H1Supreme wrote:
           | I've been running ARM VM's on my M1 MBP for the last few
           | years, and outside of the very beginning, it's been pretty
           | smooth sailing.
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | We run a handful of Linux workloads on Graviton without any
         | issues.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Pity it's not snapdragon. That may have improved chance of
       | snapdragon Linux becoming viable
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | Great, now there's just the matter of getting a proper keyboard,
       | rather the junk that most laptops these days have.
       | 
       | https://kickingandstreaming.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/x2...
        
       | coffeeaddict1 wrote:
       | I'd like to ask HN a very vaguely related question. I need to get
       | a self-hosted runner (for GitHub Actions) that is capable of
       | running Windows ARM64. What are my options other than buying a
       | machine and do everything manually? Are there any service
       | providers that offer Windows ARM64 VMs? I can only seem to find
       | options for Linux.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Your best bet is probably Azure. Otherwise you can spin up an
         | AWS graviton VM and install windows on it yourself.
        
         | khazit wrote:
         | In case you don't already know, there are Github-hosted runners
         | that run Windows arm64 [1]
         | 
         | Also, it's not what you're asking, but self-hosted runners are
         | a security nightmare if you don't have the hardware to
         | completely isolate them from your local network.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/actions/partner-runner-
         | images/blob/main/i...
        
           | coffeeaddict1 wrote:
           | They don't seem to be available for private repos (unless you
           | sign up for Github Teams or Enterprise).
        
         | 6SixTy wrote:
         | Microsoft offers Windows on ARM servers. Could slam the Windows
         | ARM ISO on a 3rd party VPS as well.
        
           | coffeeaddict1 wrote:
           | Any recommendation for an Arm vps? I tried using a Hetzner
           | server but apparently their server offering doesn't support
           | mountint Windows Arm images.
        
       | NoSalt wrote:
       | I would love to have a Framework laptop, but there is no
       | guarantee the company will be around as long as, say, Lenovo,
       | Dell, Apple, etc., and I would hate to get used to being able to
       | customize on the fly, then have to go back to a run-of-the-mill
       | laptop just because Framework went out of business.
        
         | vaylian wrote:
         | In the worst case you would have used your Framework just like
         | a regular laptop from Lenovo, Dell or Apple. You might not gain
         | much, but you also don't lose anything.
         | 
         | But that's just the worst case.
        
         | flankstaek wrote:
         | Better to have loved and lost then to have never loved at all.
         | Why not buy the Framework, support the business, and have a
         | laptop that's making you happy while it's around?
         | 
         | There's no guarantee any company lasts forever. What's the
         | point in not using something now because it might be gone in
         | the future?
        
         | nish__ wrote:
         | If the company goes under, someone else will probably start
         | manufacturing parts. Their CAD designs are open sourced on
         | GitHub.
        
       | anthonyryan1 wrote:
       | Does this board boot Linux via a device tree, or have hardware
       | discovery?
       | 
       | How about UEFI vs arm-specific bootloaders?
       | 
       | I tried arm32 Linux a few years back, and the largest hindrance
       | at the time was the device trees and non-UEFI boot process. Given
       | up on exploring the platform further (except maybe for SBC like
       | raspberry pi) until that situation improves.
        
         | woodrowbarlow wrote:
         | the minisforum ms-r1 has the same SoC and supports UEFI
        
         | aseipp wrote:
         | The CIX CP8180 uses UEFI (it is intended to boot Windows which
         | requires it) but the boot flow can, I believe, use either ACPI
         | or device trees, based on a boot setting. The ACPI boot flow
         | has the advantage that any normal Linux distro should work,
         | while the device tree variant I think has more hardware
         | enablement.
         | 
         | The upstream story due to this is kind of a mixed bag, though.
         | I think they also still use out-of-tree NPU drivers, etc.
         | Device trees and other updates are still flowing upstream. I
         | think the next Mesa release will support the Immortalis GPU
         | series though, so that'll hopefully polish off a big remaining
         | problem with ordinary distros.
        
       | ktallett wrote:
       | The complaints about battery life are valid however I see this as
       | a test board to help bring more Linux programs to life on ARM. It
       | can also be useful for porting other OSes like Haiku.
        
       | Nav_Panel wrote:
       | I've had a Framework 13 for several years now, so I'm excited to
       | see this kind of thing start to happen. Praying the next one out
       | is a GPU/tensor workload unit so I'm not stuck at home on my
       | desktop when I want to mess around with local AI models...
        
       | timpera wrote:
       | Windows 11 ARM64 is the best operating system I've ever used for
       | a laptop. Really excited to see this, although I wish this was a
       | Snapdragon X CPU.
        
       | daft_pink wrote:
       | The real problem with ARM is whether the software vendors are
       | really supporting it.
       | 
       | I use business software everyday that doesn't support ARM,
       | because of it's licensing system doesn't work on ARM processors.
       | 
       | Instead of fixing it, the company just sells cloud hosted windows
       | licenses for $100 per user.
        
       | kelnos wrote:
       | > _early tests show that the SoC already draws about 16 watts at
       | idle_
       | 
       | Ooof. I feel like power efficiency would be the main reason I'd
       | take the plunge and switch from x86_64 to arm64, given that there
       | would be difficulties and trade offs software-wise to do so.
       | 
       | My 13th-gen Intel board in my Framework 13 sits at around 11W
       | semi-idle (Firefox constantly burning 35% of one core for reasons
       | that are my fault). And this is with Linux, where power
       | management isn't always the best.
       | 
       | Regardless, I'm happy to see something like this. It might not be
       | something I want today, but it's a step in the right direction.
        
         | nubinetwork wrote:
         | It's either a firmware or soc thing, hoping they can fix it
         | without having to spin a new chip. O6 owners keep bringing it
         | up, but personally I don't care since in my case it's lower
         | than the hardware it's replacing.
        
       | tonypapousek wrote:
       | > The Qualcomm Snapdragon X Plus and Snapdragon X Elite have
       | proven that ARM processors have earned a place in the laptop
       | market
       | 
       | That's a strange revision of fairly recent history. Love 'em or
       | hate 'em, Apple's the one that proved out laptop ARM at scale.
        
       | j45 wrote:
       | It does make me wish I could drop in a macbook air motherboard
       | into a framework to get a differnet kind of ARM processor.
        
       | r2vcap wrote:
       | Qualcomm talked a lot about Snapdragon X Elite as the future of
       | Windows and Linux on ARM, but results so far are mixed. Windows
       | on ARM is finally usable on recent laptops, yet compatibility
       | gaps remain, and Linux support is still far from mature.
       | 
       | The high idle power on the Framework ARM upgrade board shouldn't
       | be blamed solely on MetaComputing or CIX. Poor idle power
       | efficiency is a long-standing issue on Linux laptops, especially
       | with new platforms, so this looks more like an ecosystem-level
       | power-management problem than a single-vendor failure.
       | 
       | What stands out to me is that Chinese companies are actually
       | shipping hardware and pushing into every possible market segment.
       | Their decentralized, diversified corporate ecosystem seems to
       | enable fast experimentation and broad market penetration.
        
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