[HN Gopher] Framework Laptop 13 gets ARM processor with 12 cores...
___________________________________________________________________
Framework Laptop 13 gets ARM processor with 12 cores via upgrade
kit
Author : woodrowbarlow
Score : 250 points
Date : 2025-12-05 15:49 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.notebookcheck.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.notebookcheck.net)
| woodrowbarlow wrote:
| here's the actual listing:
| https://metacomputing.io/products/metacomputing-arm-aipc
|
| i posted the article instead because it has some details that
| aren't on the listing.
| jeffbee wrote:
| It also has basically no details. What even is the difference
| between the Standard and Pro offering at twice the price?
| hecanjog wrote:
| It looks like the pro is the version with the full framework
| laptop chassis, battery, etc, and the standard is the version
| in the coolermaster case. (The black one with antennas on
| top)
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| These Snapdragon X processors have some drama around not having
| decent Linux support, right?
|
| EDIT: Sorry, not SnapdragonX - apparently I can't read.
|
| Also, who is "MetaComputing" and can I trust them with my money?
| Something about the big "Web 3 Integrated Devices" branding on
| their landing page makes me less than enthusiastic. Otherwise I'd
| be hovering over 'buy'
| celrod wrote:
| They're 8x A720 + 4x M520, not Snapdragon X.
| tencentshill wrote:
| They are selling a configuration that costs $810.00 on
| Framework's website for only $549.00. Zero actual info on the
| about page or Google. I would treat it with suspicion at best.
| ndiddy wrote:
| They're just selling the motherboard on its own, not a whole
| laptop. To make if a complete system, you'd have to buy a
| laptop chassis from Framework's parts site and install the
| motherboard yourself.
| evanjrowley wrote:
| You can get a whole laptop if you purchase the "Pro" option
| that comes with the Framework 13 chassis:
| https://metacomputing.io/products/metacomputing-arm-aipc
| izacus wrote:
| This isn't a Snapdragon though.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Oh, crap, guess it helps if I read next time.
| emmp wrote:
| No interest in this exactly, but I am interested in the idea that
| third parties are now targeting the Framework form factor
| explicitly to sell upgrades/replacements outside of the Framework
| marketplace.
| browningstreet wrote:
| My first thought was, "How many units could they possibly
| expect to sell given this target?"
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Sounds like the board also somehow works inside a mini-itx
| chassis or something?
| clhodapp wrote:
| It's not standard mini-itx. Since the physical form factors
| for their laptop boards are published publicly and are
| somewhat stable, are "desktop" cases for them.
| throwuxiytayq wrote:
| Given it's a Framework 13 mainboard, you can probably put
| it in any Framework 13-compatible enclosure:
|
| https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case
| https://frame.work/products/framework-laptop-13-mainboard-
| ho... https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-
| Laptop-13
|
| etc., lots of designs available.
| nish__ wrote:
| Wow. That's amazing truly. They really are entirely open
| source. You can even 3D print one.
| bsimpson wrote:
| The Legion Go is basically that with some joycons and a
| screen. I keep mine in my entertainment center when I'm
| not using it handheld, and play plastic instrument games
| on the big screen.
|
| Looks like this would be an easy entry point to a DIY
| Steam Machine that takes up ~no space under your TV.
| Someone wrote:
| FTA: _"the company has introduced a mainboard that can be
| installe in the Framework Laptop 13 or in a mini PC case"_
|
| = their market likely isn't enormous, but it is larger than
| that of Framework Laptop owners.
| dontlaugh wrote:
| That is interesting.
|
| I wish someone made a keyboard that doesn't suck, ideally split
| as well.
| thebigspacefuck wrote:
| https://blog.perprogramming.com/posts/framework-
| ortholinear-...
| dontlaugh wrote:
| Yes, something like that. Ideally for a reasonably sized
| 13-14" laptop.
| lawn wrote:
| Very cool!
|
| Although to be pedantic, that's not an "ortholinear"
| keyboard (as in a square grid) rather a keyboard with
| column stagger (which you should use).
|
| I wonder if you could make it for a FW13 too? I know QMK
| doesn't work for 13.
|
| Edit: I see now that it uses a separate microcontroller, so
| yes if you could make it fit then it should work.
| evanjrowley wrote:
| It also bothers me that the meaning of "ortholinear" has
| been lost, but at least it's a sign that the hobby has
| grown to a certain point.
| dontlaugh wrote:
| It should be possible to make a dumb version of such a
| keyboard wired the same as the stock one, just with the
| keys moved around. It would need some OS configuration to
| be truly useful, though.
| einpoklum wrote:
| Just made a top-level comment about the same thing.
|
| A big part of the core functionality of a laptop, as opposed
| to a PC, is is that of a typewriter:
|
| * Notes in class
|
| * Minutes in a meeting
|
| * Entries in a journal or travelogue
|
| * Writing the next great novel
|
| etc.
|
| Why have manufacturers simply taken that away from us, in
| favor of a terrible excuse with ridiculous tactile feedback?
| dontlaugh wrote:
| I actually like short travel very light linear switches,
| mechanical or not.
|
| I don't like row stagger and non-split keyboards, for
| ergonomic reasons. That's definitely a niche preference,
| but if anyone would cater to it you'd expect it to be
| Framework or similar.
| einpoklum wrote:
| You're right that Framework is exactly where I would
| expect flexibility on this: I mean, just looking at their
| landing page - you see a laptop without the keyboard and
| ports. Framework offers 176 (!) kinds of "keyboards":
|
| https://frame.work/marketplace/keyboards
|
| but not one decent keyboard. Why?
|
| (Answer: it's basically just keyboard covers, and the
| many options are due to variations of colors and
| languages. But I would take a hot pink / toxic green
| keyboard with ancient tibetan labels if the keys were
| non-chicklet, with decent travel, sizes, and feedback. 7
| rows if possible.)
| ratrocket wrote:
| Similar to a sibling comment, and perhaps not really
| applicable (since this isn't a company making something
| people can buy...), but the MNT Reform is amenable to fitting
| a custom/ergonomic keyboard also (I hadn't seen the Framework
| in the sibling comment, it looks very cool!).
|
| I don't know how to link to it directly, but midway down this
| article there's a picture and some more links of an MNT
| Reform (apparently completely home-built) with a very cool,
| "thumb-centric", column staggered ergo keyboard:
|
| https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2022-07-01-july-
| update.htm...
|
| (search for "More great mods from the community..." heading
| if interested)
|
| I would very much like to have a keyboard like either of
| those on my laptop. The stares you'd get when in public!!
| roughly wrote:
| Yeah, there's a lot of critiques of the product/packaging/etc,
| but this feels like huge validation of the Framework model -
| this is an unrelated 3rd party looking to get a chip in
| consumer hands who decided to use the FW chassis. That's
| Exactly what we all were hoping for when Framework first
| launched.
| NewJazz wrote:
| Yeah this is what annoyed me about Pine64's Pinebook Pro 2
| plans... No upgrade kits, they wanted to completely change
| the form factor!
|
| The chassis of my PBP is great (brittle plastic
| notwithstanding)! That's the last thing I want to replace in
| the device.
| samrus wrote:
| Exactly. This is exactly we get in return for compromising on
| quality and price with framework. Other tech is cheaper because
| of planned obsolescence or lock in. Im glad to pay more money
| to have this freedom
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| Its about time, I hope System76 comes up with their own version
| of the Framework laptop, because I would love to buy a laptop
| where I can swap out all internals, motherboard etc. but I
| really also want to work with System76 because I love what they
| are doing with POP_OS! (though I prefer arch these days, I can
| still use their Desktop environment etc) and love that they
| make Linux hardware specifically.
|
| We have needed a "Jeep of Laptops" for a while, maybe someone
| needs to spec out a fully open source design that any
| manufacturer can target.
| shkkmo wrote:
| > We have needed a "Jeep of Laptops" for a while, maybe
| someone needs to spec out a fully open source design that any
| manufacturer can target.
|
| I'm not sure if this counts in your book, but releasing all
| this stuff is closer than anyone else is to that dream.
|
| > https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-16
| adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
| Honestly a Framework+System76 merger would make a lot of
| sense. System76 cares about the software but uses
| whitelabeled hardware. Framework has done excellent hardware
| engineering but doesn't care much about the software.
| joombaga wrote:
| I don't know that it's fair to say Framework don't care
| much about the software. Their oldest devices are still
| getting firmware updates. At any rate, Pop!_OS runs very
| well on Framework Laptops (though I use Arch + Hyprland, w/
| Windows on their storage expansion card).
| TheCraiggers wrote:
| That's a bit of a hot take considering all the donations
| they've been making to OSS projects. Sure, maybe they're
| not making Yet Another Distro but they're donating to and
| upstreamimg patches to things that everyone (including
| PopOS) uses.
|
| To me, that's far from not caring about the software.
| Especially when you compare to other vendors like Pine.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| You can always just throw money at them for Pop!_OS[1] (which
| is what I did when I bought my Framework 13 and installed Pop
| on it).
|
| 1: https://system76.com/donate/
| legitronics wrote:
| There's also this RISC V thing, I ordered one in July and got
| mine in November.
|
| I could transplant the desktop model I got into my original
| framework, but I haven't attempted it.
|
| https://store.deepcomputing.io/products/dc-roma-ai-pc-risc-v...
| amelius wrote:
| Apple: "We can't make great products if we don't completely
| control everything"
|
| Framework: "Let us show you how it is done!"
| ndiddy wrote:
| This board uses the CIX CP8180 SoC, which has worse performance
| and significantly worse efficiency than even Apple's M1 chip. See
| Jeff Geerling's review of a desktop with this SoC:
| https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2025/minisforum-stuffs-ent...
| If you need an ARM Linux laptop, it's probably a better choice to
| get a used M1 or M2 MacBook Pro and put Fedora Asahi on it.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Yeah, or if you don't mind something with performance this low,
| the RK3588 has much better kernel support (I have a couple
| here) and there's some companies offering laptop format for
| those now.
|
| But as much as I love the RK3588 it's very much in the "low
| perf utility SBC" world than "good performing general PC". I
| use my two boards for NAS, Plex, Forgejo CI builders, etc.
|
| I do recall that Jeff Geerling I think had some followup with
| that board that perhaps there could be firmware changes that
| improve the power efficiency later maybe?
| bpye wrote:
| I have an MNT Pocket Reform with an RK3588 and I do like the
| device, but yeah, it can be a little sluggish at times.
|
| It is very usable for email, editing documents, code review,
| etc - but it will struggle if you're trying to multitask
| heavily.
|
| This CIX SoC is a fair bit faster than the RK3588 though I
| believe.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| There's an RK3688 coming next year (hopefully?) which looks
| like a perf bump.
| chrisweekly wrote:
| Apple hardware, yes. Fedora Asahi, maybe. OrbStack^1 provides
| awesome flexibility and DX/UX, w/ minimal footprint.
|
| 1. https://orbstack.dev/
| signa11 wrote:
| it doesn't do gui afaik.
| metadat wrote:
| Orbstack is just a less bug-ridden implementation of
| Docker4Mac, not really pertinent or earth shattering for
| running desktop apps on the daily.
|
| What's wrong with Asahi?
| dpc_01234 wrote:
| Is _everything_ working? Last time I put Linux on a x86_64
| Air Book I was given for free, everything was working
| _except_ resume from suspend would crash and reboot the
| system, and from the reading on it, it seems it is a know
| issue due to T4 security chip or something. Made me believe
| that if older chips doesn't yet work, the newer ones
| probably have more caveats. Or am I wrong?
|
| Generally I'm reluctant investing in Linux on a hardware
| from company more or less hostile to it, but I also don't
| have any need for ARM laptop, and I'm happy with my
| Framework.
| philistine wrote:
| > more or less hostile to it
|
| I wouldn't say the problem is hostility. It's complete
| non-interest. Apple wisely allowed us to load a non-
| chain-of-trust OS while maintaining the chain of trust in
| macOS, which is an incredible advancement still unmatched
| by other manufacturers.
|
| And that's it. They have done zero work to accommodate
| Linux. At all. Perhaps if Microsoft ever figures out that
| NT used to run on more than one arch, Apple will revive
| Boot Camp for Windows and deem it useful to include Linux
| this time?
| thewebguyd wrote:
| > Apple will revive Boot Camp for Windows and deem it
| useful to include Linux this time?
|
| If Apple wanted to, they could already do that right now.
| Windows runs on arm just fine. Heck, windows on Arm in a
| parallels VM runs better on my macbook pro than it does
| natively on an x86 laptop.
|
| If Apple would make some drivers, even just for Windows,
| I bet they'd sell more macs. But it would seem Apple
| either calculated that ecosystem/services lock-in is way
| more important to them than a potential boost in hardware
| sales for alternative OSes, or they are really reluctant
| to make drivers for Apple Silicon available elsewhere out
| of fear it'll expose some trade secrets, which they
| didn't have to worry about when they used intel.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > If Apple would make some drivers, even just for
| Windows, I bet they'd sell more macs.
|
| The incremental bump in sales would be very small.
|
| Even when Apple did provide bootcamp drivers to run
| Windows on old laptops, very few people used it as their
| daily driver for a Windows computer. I'm sure Apple has a
| better estimate of the market for people who bought Macs
| to use with alternative OSes back when they supported it,
| but they've calculated that it's not worth the effort.
| philistine wrote:
| The problem is indeed Windows. Could you point me to
| where you can legally buy a Windows for ARM licence?
| thewebguyd wrote:
| You can buy it from the Microsoft Store inside of windows
| once its installed. That's how it works with parallels,
| or any other Windows on Arm device (say, for upgrading
| from Home to Pro).
| aseipp wrote:
| The Macbook M2 Air running Asahi Linux is easily my
| favorite Linux laptop ever, far superior to any Thinkpad
| or Dell XPS I've owned, imo. I think things like
| Thunderbolt and some DisplayPort features are missing,
| but I have never needed this as it is purely a laptop for
| me. But it has everything else I could want:
| suspend/sleep, proper frequency scaling, great GPU
| drivers, USB/wifi/bluetooth, speakers,
| brightness/keyboard settings, etc. The webcam works I
| think but I haven't tried it. The battery life is great,
| though macOS is still quite a ways ahead in that
| department.
| e12e wrote:
| > "Some DisplayPort"? There's still no HDMI/video out on
| the M2 air under Linux? No Ethernet 1 or 10gps?
|
| I'd advise buying a MacBook air m1 over an m2 if the goal
| is to run Linux...
|
| https://asahilinux.org/docs/platform/feature-support/m2/
| bigyabai wrote:
| > What's wrong with Asahi?
|
| ...all the missing support?
| nottorp wrote:
| But has Asashi managed to have support for bells and whistles
| like graphics acceleration and sleep by now?
|
| This SoC may actually have Linux drivers.
| bpye wrote:
| Graphics acceleration yes - and more fully featured than
| Panfrost for Mali at that, but I think sleep is still just
| s2idle.
| dllu wrote:
| It does have graphics acceleration and you can even play AAA
| titles with fex [1] since last year. But many bells and
| whistles still don't work --- for example, the video decoding
| hardware, proper sleep, etc.
|
| Anyway, I've been using it on my Macbook Air M2 and it works
| fine for my use case [3]. Pretty smooth.
|
| [1] https://rosenzweig.io/blog/aaa-gaming-on-m1.html
|
| [3] https://daniel.lawrence.lu/blog/2024-12-01-asahi-linux-
| with-...
| nottorp wrote:
| > proper sleep
|
| :(
|
| The one feature that only works properly when using both
| Apple hardware and software...
| 650REDHAIR wrote:
| I want to support and encourage companies that aren't Apple.
| beeflet wrote:
| Asashi is a project built on sand. I'm not giving apple a dime
| Melonai wrote:
| Maybe, but it works quite well for me, so to each their own!
| :)
|
| Can't seem to get DP Alt Mode to work on my used 2021 M1 Pro
| though, even though it's listed as supported with an
| asterisk, maybe someone here has managed it?
|
| (Also, if you're buying used and wiping MacOS are you truly
| giving Apple a dime? I guess it's a matter of perspective.)
| dangus wrote:
| Which means it also has worse efficiency than the current
| generation of AMD chips on offer for the Framework 13.
|
| Unfortunately, I fear the biggest oversight of the Framework 13
| is that the chassis was designed for a battery that's just a
| lot smaller than its competition.
|
| I would actually love a Framework 14 to sit between the 13 and
| 16 and have it be focused more on packing in a big battery
| rather some of the advantages that the 13 and 16 have at
| present. Or, perhaps a Framework 13 chassis redesign that tries
| to maintain backward/forward compatibility but adds some extra
| room for larger batteries.
|
| I will say, the 13 is so light that, technically, carrying a
| spare power bank around plus the laptop is about the same
| weight as a MacBook Pro 14", so as long as you're cool with
| that little extra space used in your backpack I don't find the
| short battery life to be too big a of a deal. Plus, having a
| giant battery with you tends to come in handy.
| csdreamer7 wrote:
| https://metacomputing.io/products/metacomputing-arm-aipc
|
| Save you a click or two. Looking at this I have so many
| questions. Am I buying a mainboard? It is not clear. It lists
| ports: it only supports 2 ports? You have four options with
| 16/32gigs and 1tb of storage? Is the storage soldiered? If so,
| what is the storage? emmc? Soldiered memory seems to be a given
| in the ARM ecosystem, but the storage is completely unacceptable
| on a framework mainboard.
|
| The only difference between the pro and the regular is that the
| second port is a usb-c over an hdmi? I am assuming this is the
| mainboard even supporting framework extension cards.
|
| No listed Linux compatibility support. Forget if the NPU even
| works in Linux; I do not even know if this will boot Linux
| because the company did not bother to submit devicetree patches
| to the kernel for their SOC. No listed Windows support even.
|
| This company's copy is absolutely terrible.
| woodrowbarlow wrote:
| my impression was the "pro" is the same board but comes with a
| framework 13 chassis, but yeah the lack of explicit details
| does not inspire confidence.
| mtklein wrote:
| This is astonishingly bad power usage for a laptop, a complete
| dealbreaker: "...early tests show that the SoC already draws
| about 16 watts at idle..."
| antonkochubey wrote:
| For some context, my 12-core Intel laptop consumes 1.5 to 2
| watts at idle for the SoC. Apple M silicon might consume even
| less.
| bigyabai wrote:
| > upgrade kit
|
| > makes your laptop slower
|
| Hmm...
| cuu508 wrote:
| yeah, that is impressively bad. Perhaps a reporting error and
| it is 16W at full tilt?
| gary_0 wrote:
| Maybe it's a typo and it's 1.6W.
| MBCook wrote:
| So this isn't an _official_ thing, this is a 3rd party selling a
| replacement motherboard, is that right?
| toshinoriyagi wrote:
| Correct, it's not sold by Framework, but is a replacement
| mainboard sold by a 3rd party. I think that is one of the big
| appeals of a modular laptop like Framework, though. You can
| create an ecosystem around it, customize, and not be locked in
| to just what the primary manufacturer makes.
| MBCook wrote:
| Yeah it's a good feature. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't
| misreading the situation.
| znpy wrote:
| I'm curious to see battery life reports over this. Chances are
| these arm chips will not be beating intel/amd on battery life.
|
| Also worth looking at battery life compared to performance...
| 999900000999 wrote:
| I don't have much faith in Arm Linux. Tuxedo gave up.
|
| Cheap Windows Arm laptops are flooding the market, if someone can
| pick ONE laptop to support they could easily buy them on sale ,
| refurbished them with Linux and make a profit.
|
| Looks likes their are some challenges with doing this.
| winterqt wrote:
| Supposedly the ARM ThinkPads are alright on Linux.
| jonkoops wrote:
| Not really. The drivers are not upstream, so it only works
| well on specially made Ubuntu spins that carry out of tree
| patches and random binary blobs. It is really still quite a
| mess at the moment.
| danans wrote:
| > It is really still quite a mess at the moment.
|
| Integration, testing, and support are all expensive. Right
| or wrong, that's a reason why if a laptop "just works"
| (like a Mac, Windows Thinkpad, or a Chromebook), it
| probably has proprietary binaries.
|
| Also, if you aren't paying for the OS (via the hardware
| it's coupled with), you can't expect the OS to have the
| benefits of tight hardware integration.
|
| Even Framework laptops use proprietary boot firmware, and
| they've been pretty clear that they only provide support
| for Ubuntu and Fedora, not the alphabet soup of other Linux
| desktop distros.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| > I don't have much faith in Arm Linux. Tuxedo gave up.
|
| I was also slowly loosing hope, although I do still run some
| NixOS ARM Raspberry PIs. But with the recent Valve backing, I'm
| back on the train again, and eagerly awaiting the slow but
| steady improvements, and figuring out where I can contribute
| back.
| blisstonia wrote:
| They probably gave up on their Snapdragon X efforts as
| Snapdragon X2 Elite was nipping at their heels and they'd have
| a redundant device by the time their efforts came to market.
| alecsm wrote:
| Valve is gonna save the day once again.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Running Windows stuff.....
| bigyabai wrote:
| I quite prefer that to the alternative of _not_ running
| Windows stuff.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Thing is, that strengths Windows market relevance, as IBM
| learnt with OS/2 and its Windows compatibility.
| bigyabai wrote:
| Good. I love exploiting Windows' market relevance, it's
| rather fun and engaging.
| alecsm wrote:
| I don't use Windows but I do run a lot of software made
| only for Windows. I don't see any problem with that.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Until the fountain runs dry, because the kingdom lords
| diverted the river from Valve's well castle.
| alecsm wrote:
| I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.
|
| Valve is pushing mostly open source to expand to other
| platforms which is a win win for everybody.
| pjmlp wrote:
| That would be true if they were actually making devs
| embrace SteamOS.
| bigyabai wrote:
| They are. You're mad that Valve isn't militantly
| enforcing Linux-native games, which is nonsense. The OG
| Steam Machine did that and was DOA.
|
| Thousands of game studios are gone now, and supporting
| their software is important legacy work. You don't have
| to appreciate that, but I do. I do not give the _faintest
| fuck_ about the opportunity cost you bemoan towards
| native UNIX games when I do this. That 's your problem,
| not mine.
| 650REDHAIR wrote:
| Isn't Valve's new VR headset running ARM?
|
| I have faith!
| alimbada wrote:
| I was about to comment to say that unless Valve is prepared
| to invest significant effort into an x86 -> ARM translation
| layer that's not going to happen but a quick search for
| "linux x86 to arm translation" led me to an XDA article[1]
| proving me wrong. The recently announced Steam Frame runs on
| ARM and can run x86 games directly using using something
| called FEX.
|
| Now we just need to be as good as (or better than) Apple's
| Rosetta.
|
| [1] https://www.xda-developers.com/arm-translation-layer-
| steam-f...
| alecsm wrote:
| From yesterday:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46126446
| darksaints wrote:
| Honestly, I don't have much faith in _Linux_ anymore, and it
| has everything to do with the explosion of the kernel 's
| codebase due to the explosion of cheaper devices running linux
| and the (admittedly difficult) management issues surrounding
| the kernel. I feel like from a security perspective, macos is a
| better choice and that pains me as a long time linux user.
|
| Can we please move on to microkernels already? I'm fine with a
| tiny performance hit, I just don't want to get rooted because I
| plugged in the wrong USB stick.
| bigyabai wrote:
| You can use microkernels whenever you want. Just be aware
| that they typically have the same issues with zombie/cruft
| code and aren't necessarily more secure for every
| application.
| 999900000999 wrote:
| I want a 4TB SSD.
|
| To do that on a MacBook I'm spending a minimum of 3200$.
|
| If you have unlimited money ( or can expense it) a 3200$ to
| 4k MacBook is going to be the best experience money can buy.
|
| If you have limited funds, a 200$ used computer can get the
| job done with the right distro.
| bayindirh wrote:
| If you don't want to go macOS route and want to leave Linux
| world, your destination would be FreeBSD or OpenBSD.
|
| On the other hand, if you're not running Wine, you can't get
| autorun virii from USB drives, plus the Windows virii just
| lives there and can't do anything.
| eigencoder wrote:
| What about plan9? ;)
| ggm wrote:
| Plan9 is like ocean yacht racing. If you have to ask
| about the "cost" you aren't the target market.
|
| Plan9 is like writing. You either do it, or talk about
| doing it. I'm talking not doing btw. I tried, but I got
| stuck on trivial things and the barrier to asking for
| help over 2+2= is high. (No offence intended. The 9 heads
| aren't interested in running a kindergarden)
| kidfiji wrote:
| Valve seems to be putting a lot of resources into this area for
| their Steam Frame
| tensor wrote:
| Do you mean "desktop arm linux"? Because AWS, Google, and
| others all run Linux on their arm servers and that market
| segment is only growing.
| H1Supreme wrote:
| I've been running ARM VM's on my M1 MBP for the last few
| years, and outside of the very beginning, it's been pretty
| smooth sailing.
| whalesalad wrote:
| We run a handful of Linux workloads on Graviton without any
| issues.
| Havoc wrote:
| Pity it's not snapdragon. That may have improved chance of
| snapdragon Linux becoming viable
| einpoklum wrote:
| Great, now there's just the matter of getting a proper keyboard,
| rather the junk that most laptops these days have.
|
| https://kickingandstreaming.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/x2...
| coffeeaddict1 wrote:
| I'd like to ask HN a very vaguely related question. I need to get
| a self-hosted runner (for GitHub Actions) that is capable of
| running Windows ARM64. What are my options other than buying a
| machine and do everything manually? Are there any service
| providers that offer Windows ARM64 VMs? I can only seem to find
| options for Linux.
| paxys wrote:
| Your best bet is probably Azure. Otherwise you can spin up an
| AWS graviton VM and install windows on it yourself.
| khazit wrote:
| In case you don't already know, there are Github-hosted runners
| that run Windows arm64 [1]
|
| Also, it's not what you're asking, but self-hosted runners are
| a security nightmare if you don't have the hardware to
| completely isolate them from your local network.
|
| [1] https://github.com/actions/partner-runner-
| images/blob/main/i...
| coffeeaddict1 wrote:
| They don't seem to be available for private repos (unless you
| sign up for Github Teams or Enterprise).
| 6SixTy wrote:
| Microsoft offers Windows on ARM servers. Could slam the Windows
| ARM ISO on a 3rd party VPS as well.
| coffeeaddict1 wrote:
| Any recommendation for an Arm vps? I tried using a Hetzner
| server but apparently their server offering doesn't support
| mountint Windows Arm images.
| NoSalt wrote:
| I would love to have a Framework laptop, but there is no
| guarantee the company will be around as long as, say, Lenovo,
| Dell, Apple, etc., and I would hate to get used to being able to
| customize on the fly, then have to go back to a run-of-the-mill
| laptop just because Framework went out of business.
| vaylian wrote:
| In the worst case you would have used your Framework just like
| a regular laptop from Lenovo, Dell or Apple. You might not gain
| much, but you also don't lose anything.
|
| But that's just the worst case.
| flankstaek wrote:
| Better to have loved and lost then to have never loved at all.
| Why not buy the Framework, support the business, and have a
| laptop that's making you happy while it's around?
|
| There's no guarantee any company lasts forever. What's the
| point in not using something now because it might be gone in
| the future?
| nish__ wrote:
| If the company goes under, someone else will probably start
| manufacturing parts. Their CAD designs are open sourced on
| GitHub.
| anthonyryan1 wrote:
| Does this board boot Linux via a device tree, or have hardware
| discovery?
|
| How about UEFI vs arm-specific bootloaders?
|
| I tried arm32 Linux a few years back, and the largest hindrance
| at the time was the device trees and non-UEFI boot process. Given
| up on exploring the platform further (except maybe for SBC like
| raspberry pi) until that situation improves.
| woodrowbarlow wrote:
| the minisforum ms-r1 has the same SoC and supports UEFI
| aseipp wrote:
| The CIX CP8180 uses UEFI (it is intended to boot Windows which
| requires it) but the boot flow can, I believe, use either ACPI
| or device trees, based on a boot setting. The ACPI boot flow
| has the advantage that any normal Linux distro should work,
| while the device tree variant I think has more hardware
| enablement.
|
| The upstream story due to this is kind of a mixed bag, though.
| I think they also still use out-of-tree NPU drivers, etc.
| Device trees and other updates are still flowing upstream. I
| think the next Mesa release will support the Immortalis GPU
| series though, so that'll hopefully polish off a big remaining
| problem with ordinary distros.
| ktallett wrote:
| The complaints about battery life are valid however I see this as
| a test board to help bring more Linux programs to life on ARM. It
| can also be useful for porting other OSes like Haiku.
| Nav_Panel wrote:
| I've had a Framework 13 for several years now, so I'm excited to
| see this kind of thing start to happen. Praying the next one out
| is a GPU/tensor workload unit so I'm not stuck at home on my
| desktop when I want to mess around with local AI models...
| timpera wrote:
| Windows 11 ARM64 is the best operating system I've ever used for
| a laptop. Really excited to see this, although I wish this was a
| Snapdragon X CPU.
| daft_pink wrote:
| The real problem with ARM is whether the software vendors are
| really supporting it.
|
| I use business software everyday that doesn't support ARM,
| because of it's licensing system doesn't work on ARM processors.
|
| Instead of fixing it, the company just sells cloud hosted windows
| licenses for $100 per user.
| kelnos wrote:
| > _early tests show that the SoC already draws about 16 watts at
| idle_
|
| Ooof. I feel like power efficiency would be the main reason I'd
| take the plunge and switch from x86_64 to arm64, given that there
| would be difficulties and trade offs software-wise to do so.
|
| My 13th-gen Intel board in my Framework 13 sits at around 11W
| semi-idle (Firefox constantly burning 35% of one core for reasons
| that are my fault). And this is with Linux, where power
| management isn't always the best.
|
| Regardless, I'm happy to see something like this. It might not be
| something I want today, but it's a step in the right direction.
| nubinetwork wrote:
| It's either a firmware or soc thing, hoping they can fix it
| without having to spin a new chip. O6 owners keep bringing it
| up, but personally I don't care since in my case it's lower
| than the hardware it's replacing.
| tonypapousek wrote:
| > The Qualcomm Snapdragon X Plus and Snapdragon X Elite have
| proven that ARM processors have earned a place in the laptop
| market
|
| That's a strange revision of fairly recent history. Love 'em or
| hate 'em, Apple's the one that proved out laptop ARM at scale.
| j45 wrote:
| It does make me wish I could drop in a macbook air motherboard
| into a framework to get a differnet kind of ARM processor.
| r2vcap wrote:
| Qualcomm talked a lot about Snapdragon X Elite as the future of
| Windows and Linux on ARM, but results so far are mixed. Windows
| on ARM is finally usable on recent laptops, yet compatibility
| gaps remain, and Linux support is still far from mature.
|
| The high idle power on the Framework ARM upgrade board shouldn't
| be blamed solely on MetaComputing or CIX. Poor idle power
| efficiency is a long-standing issue on Linux laptops, especially
| with new platforms, so this looks more like an ecosystem-level
| power-management problem than a single-vendor failure.
|
| What stands out to me is that Chinese companies are actually
| shipping hardware and pushing into every possible market segment.
| Their decentralized, diversified corporate ecosystem seems to
| enable fast experimentation and broad market penetration.
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