[HN Gopher] WhatsApp will become interoperable with other messag...
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       WhatsApp will become interoperable with other messaging apps in
       Europe
        
       Author : marvinborner
       Score  : 84 points
       Date   : 2025-12-01 13:23 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tuta.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tuta.com)
        
       | timpera wrote:
       | This is a really cool initative, but I'm a bit worried about
       | spam.
        
         | jkaplowitz wrote:
         | Being opt-in for the WhatsApp user reduces the severity of that
         | problem a lot, though certainly not to zero for those who do
         | opt in.
        
           | ale42 wrote:
           | TBH it also reduces the usefulness of the features a lot. If
           | I first have to contact people on another channel to tell
           | them to enable this feature because I want to message them,
           | well, I guess most people wont just do it.
        
       | benoau wrote:
       | I like this, a long time ago there were quite a few multi-service
       | messaging clients that tied into AIM, MSN, Yahoo etc it was very
       | convenient.
       | 
       | The downside is only the "gatekeepers" have to provide this
       | interoperability, when it would be far more useful if all the
       | popular platforms were facilitating it.
        
         | sunaookami wrote:
         | Yeah this only cements WhatsApp's monopoly because everyone has
         | to implement WhatsApp's proprietary protocol.
        
           | Gualdrapo wrote:
           | Still it's a bit less worse than the current situation where
           | you're forced to use the upstream app because "security" or
           | whatever.
           | 
           | Still I agree that pre-2012 IM status was much better when
           | open protocols were more popular. Of course there was the
           | Windows Live Messenger thing but even you could use something
           | like Pidgin to chat with it.
        
           | ForHackernews wrote:
           | But if there are multiple independent clients and a reverse-
           | engineered protocol, then it should be possible for someone
           | to develop a third-party server implementation.
        
           | whizzter wrote:
           | iirc WhatsApp uses the same protocol as Signal.
        
       | smt88 wrote:
       | Meta is only rolling this out in Europe. This does nothing to
       | shake their alarming monopolies in places like India.
        
         | moralestapia wrote:
         | I see no reason why none of all those extremely talented
         | developers that America desperately needs can't come up with a
         | messaging service of their own.
        
           | _dky wrote:
           | I guess it is more about captured user base than the
           | technology.
           | 
           | What other differentiating factors can you implement that can
           | steer the masses from one messaging platform to the other. I
           | cannot think of any.
        
           | j_maffe wrote:
           | They can and they have. It's the lock-in Meta is imposing
           | that's preventing new options to succeed in the market.
        
             | moralestapia wrote:
             | If you have said this about Apple/Google, I would have said
             | ... maaaaaayyybeeeeee ...
             | 
             | But in this case, how exactly does Meta prevent people from
             | India downloading and using another messaging app?
        
               | j_maffe wrote:
               | Nothing. It's a monopoly in a market that is heavily
               | network dependent. Without interoperability, it's
               | infeasible for a new option to become viable. Though I'm
               | sure you know this already and just believe that
               | monopolies are alright for consumers.
        
               | moralestapia wrote:
               | What would you believe is a solution?
        
         | Vespasian wrote:
         | Well the Indian government can consider a law similar to the EU
         | Digital Market Acts that enforces such behaviour.
        
       | qubex wrote:
       | For the iOS world, ideally the Messages app would be mandated to
       | become a generic interface receptive to protocol plug-ins to
       | interoperate with all messaging networks; and it too itself would
       | be replaceable in that role.
        
         | isodev wrote:
         | I'm not sure Apple can be a good steward of such an open, plug-
         | in based solution - they would always put in some restrictions
         | to make the process very complicated and not accessible to
         | platforms and developers.
         | 
         | At the same time, making it possible to choose WhatsApp for the
         | default messaging app has been a great relief for those not
         | locked into Messages.
        
           | qubex wrote:
           | Well the thing is: if they were particularly obnoxious about
           | their implementation, they could be replaced. I'm looking
           | forward to a multi-protocol messaging client that implements
           | other protocols as plugins. If and when such a thing arrives,
           | I'm setting it to be my default.
        
         | jandrewrogers wrote:
         | A complication is that iMessage supports a ton of collaboration
         | features that don't (and largely can't) exist across other
         | messaging apps. The messaging bits will have the same nerfed
         | interface as SMS/RCS because of missing capabilities.
         | 
         | Despite having the appearance of a messaging app, iMessage
         | operates as a backbone for a lot of OS capability that is
         | surprisingly deep.
        
         | Ajedi32 wrote:
         | That seems like a good idea in the sense that it's better than
         | separate apps for everything, but it's also probably the wrong
         | level of abstraction. For example: what happens if you try to
         | create a group chat containing an RCS user, a WhatsApp user,
         | and a Telegram user? Ideally it would just work, but I don't
         | see how that's possible without support for such a thing at a
         | deeper level than just the UI layer.
        
       | progval wrote:
       | Matrix/Element wrote more on the issue than what is referenced in
       | the article: https://matrix.org/blog/2024/09/whatsapp-dma/
        
         | pogue wrote:
         | That's from 2024. Has there been any recent updates?
        
           | progval wrote:
           | None, as far as I know. But it doesn't seem like Meta's
           | stance changed either.
        
       | sva_ wrote:
       | I wonder how this will work with e2e encryption?
        
       | input_sh wrote:
       | > BirdyChat and Haiket are the first two messaging apps that will
       | initially be interoperable with WhatsApp.
       | 
       | What the heck are BirdyChat and Haiket? Both of those don't seem
       | to actually exist, they just have a waitlist on their homepage.
       | 
       | Literally the only post on BirdyChat's blog is how they're now
       | WhatsApp-compatible, but their initial Google Play release
       | happened 45 days ago (Oct 16th).
       | 
       | Haiket's website similarly contains only one press release, which
       | is to say that they're accepting waitlists since Nov 11th, but
       | they're somehow funded by the "former CEO of AT&T Communications
       | and board member of Palo Alto Networks and Lockheed Martin".
        
         | pogue wrote:
         | I was curious too, but I figured I was just an out of touch
         | millennial who didn't know what all the kids were chatting on
         | these days and didn't want to say anything...
        
         | urbandw311er wrote:
         | This smells unbelievably dodgy
        
       | A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote:
       | I dislike fb a fair bit, but if whatsapp effectively replicated
       | functionality of pidgin, I would seriously consider it despite
       | its otherwise evil behavior. If they made it open source with
       | permissible license, I might even forgive some of fb's past
       | transgressions. They do have the resources to pull it off.
        
       | prmph wrote:
       | What would be far more useful is easy export/import functionality
       | not tied to iOS/Android backups. i lose some messages every time
       | I switch phones; it's a mess
        
         | poisonborz wrote:
         | Android: You can get the message db with root. You can export
         | individual chats in text version right from the interface. The
         | message media is stored in the user folders.
         | 
         | Still bad, sure, but there are worse offenders.
        
       | pogue wrote:
       | I'm sick of having so many different messaging apps. Everyone is
       | using a different one, so you have to download another app,
       | signup for something, figure out how to configure it & etc etc.
       | 
       | We need a modern Trillian or Pidgin that just connects to and
       | talks to everything. To be fair, Pidgin still has lots of plugins
       | for many different chat protocols. I don't know how well
       | maintained they are and if they work consistently.
       | 
       | https://pidgin.im/plugins/?publisher=all&query=&type=Protoco...
        
       | lupire wrote:
       | Ctrl-F XMPP
       | 
       | Hmm.
       | 
       | Remember when gTalk had XMPP and Facebook killed XMPP by refusing
       | to support it and launching the chat silo wars?
        
       | alex_duf wrote:
       | I wonder if that would allow Signal to become interoperable with
       | Whatsapp?
        
         | lenerdenator wrote:
         | I wouldn't want any cross-talk between my secure messaging app
         | and anything that is owned by Meta.
         | 
         | Your comms are only as secure as the node receiving them.
        
           | j_maffe wrote:
           | Yes which is fine given that you get to choose what you send
           | to which app.
        
         | djl0 wrote:
         | FTA: As reported by Heise Online, Signal and Threema will not
         | establish connections allowing for interoperability with
         | WhatsApp.
        
       | brettermeier wrote:
       | I want to read this in original language, but this website always
       | directs me to it's german version.
       | 
       | Really annoying! Respect my decision as a user to choose the
       | language I want, not where my IP comes from...
        
         | fer wrote:
         | It's been a pain point for me for years with many services.
         | 
         | Shameless plug on the topic: https://www.fer.xyz/2021/04/i18n
        
         | rrr_oh_man wrote:
         | Completely and utterly ignored by Google >:(
        
       | hmokiguess wrote:
       | If I stopped and looked at how many redundant apps I have right
       | now that'd be wild. For messaging alone, I'm on iMessage,
       | Messenger, Telegram, Signal, WhatsApp, Slack, Discord, IRC, many
       | in-app DM secondary tier feature chats, and perhaps a few other
       | esoteric ones. Can we go back to just IRC please, those were the
       | days for me.
        
         | Yokolos wrote:
         | I miss the days when I could start Pidgin and it'd
         | automatically log into every single service I use, and I could
         | chat with anybody regardless of which service they were on. I
         | didn't need half a dozen different apps running just to chat.
         | It felt like a utopia compared to what we have today.
        
           | rw_grim wrote:
           | We're working hard on getting back to that, but it takes
           | time, and we're an unfunded open source project, but soon
           | maybe?
           | 
           | You may be interested in our monthly updates
           | https://discourse.imfreedom.org/tag/state-of-the-bird
        
         | theknarf wrote:
         | People tried to standardize on XMPP back in the day, but
         | capitalism figured out that standardize didn't fit their profit
         | motivation. These days XMPP is a bit of an dated XML-heavy
         | protocol, but Matrix is a newer alternative, and it supports
         | bridging.
        
           | arthurfirst wrote:
           | No profit in allowing people to communicate freely without
           | intermediaries.
           | 
           | How to middle man and gatekeep otherwise?
        
             | hmokiguess wrote:
             | While I agree with you, there's certainly other ways to
             | make money in an open protocol. Email perhaps is a good
             | example, we are still on SMTP/IMAP and there's lots of
             | business built on custom clients and whatnot. (Ok, maybe
             | not the best example haha but hopefully you get my point
             | here)
        
               | arthurfirst wrote:
               | Email is a glorious relic from the truly distributed
               | internet that could have been...
               | 
               | That is why its so useful! It was just designed to work
               | not enslave or en-silo.
               | 
               | The opportunities came after the market was created and
               | adoption was wide-spread because it was just so useful.
               | 
               | The security business opportunities exploded once
               | Microsoft got into the market and things like computer
               | viruses spread via email due to their total negligence
               | and enabling ;)
               | 
               | I can still remember nasty things like Lotus notes or
               | ccmail but once email became widespread and the momentum
               | was undeniable they could not give that sh*t away -- they
               | did try that too.
        
         | jjav wrote:
         | This is why we must have open interoperable standards, like the
         | Internet used to and was meant to be.
        
         | baiwl wrote:
         | I also have many messaging apps, but they are all different
         | personas of myself, intended for different audiences. I have
         | zero interest in mixing them.
        
           | hmokiguess wrote:
           | That could still be part of the protocol though, that's the
           | beauty of protocols versus SaaS. Everyone wins, not just the
           | gatekeepers.
        
       | ExoticPearTree wrote:
       | And what about E2E encryption? How will that work for users? Or
       | will WhatsApp go the iMessage way and signal that you're talking
       | to a non user of the platform and that you should be careful what
       | you say there?
        
       | anonymars wrote:
       | WhatsApp is the only chat app I've encountered that refuses to
       | work* if you don't give it access to your contacts. The last
       | thing I want is to give it access to even more chats. Go eat a
       | bag of dicks, Meta. More like "metastatic"
       | 
       | * you can respond to messages but are very limited in what you
       | can initiate (as such they got you as part of someone else's
       | contact list)
        
         | gear54rus wrote:
         | Perhaps you'd be interested in learning that you can initiate
         | chats to phone numbers (regardless of contact status) by going
         | to wa.me/<phone-number>
         | 
         | I've never tested it without contacts permissions though.
        
           | throw-the-towel wrote:
           | They broke that just several weeks ago, at least for me.
        
           | wodenokoto wrote:
           | You can send the phone number to yourself in chat and then
           | click it to open it for chat.
        
         | sethops1 wrote:
         | I think this might only be true on Android? Apple has a strict
         | policy that the basic app functionality must work even without
         | permissions. And testing right now, I can send messages to
         | direct numbers without having given access to my contacts.
        
           | ckemere wrote:
           | Original poster explained that the functionality is having a
           | contact list. WhatsApp will either access and use ALL your
           | contacts or none on iPhone as well as android. Having jumped
           | through many hoops to preserve conversations without leaking
           | contacts, I'm highly attuned to this...
        
             | nasretdinov wrote:
             | Recent iOS versions allow you to share only a small subset
             | of contacts, which is really useful for apps like these
        
             | throwaway290 wrote:
             | nope. he literally wrote "cannot initiate messages if you
             | don't give it access to your contacts" and that's false on
             | iphone. on iphone whatsapp has its own separate contact
             | list if you don't give it access. and it is like this for
             | years.
        
         | throwaway290 wrote:
         | Works on iphone though.
        
         | sparkie wrote:
         | This is why you should use Graphene's contact scopes and only
         | allow access to contacts that you want to contact on WhatsApp.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _WhatsApp is the only chat app I 've encountered that refuses
         | to work_ if you don't give it access to your contacts*
         | 
         | I've never given it access to my contacts. (iOS.) It's worked
         | fine. I recently started giving it access to a limited set of
         | my contacts, but that was for convenience.
        
           | onemoresoop wrote:
           | Add Zuck's contact to the group and share that one only.
        
         | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
         | Telegram did this for me when I tested it years ago. Instantly
         | uninstalled.
        
           | dvngnt_ wrote:
           | on android telegram is optional, whatsapp is required
        
         | sureglymop wrote:
         | I don't have this issue at all, I just selectively only give it
         | access to some contacts.
         | 
         | It seems to no longer even scan the contacts by itself, only
         | when you hit "New Chat", press the triple dots and then
         | "Refresh".
         | 
         | Still a pretty garbage app but at least in terms of this it
         | seems to have actually improved.
        
       | zenoprax wrote:
       | This feels like a distraction from what is really needed: a
       | return to open standards/protocols.
       | 
       | I love the idea of Matrix but the complexity of key management
       | and federation for the average person is far too high. Signal is
       | a perfect direct replacement for WhatsApp but it still requires a
       | phone number.
       | 
       | RCS is good enough... as a fallback protocol. I don't want a
       | dependency on a phone number or a single physical device.
       | 
       | Why is email so durable but federated messaging so fragile? If we
       | can make PGP/GPG email more accessible I wonder if that could
       | translate to instant messaging?
        
         | mrguyorama wrote:
         | The only possible way to return to open standards and protocols
         | would be to make a closed protocol illegal.
         | 
         | That was vaguely the state of things before the DMCA here in
         | the US. Sega had no legal ability to stop other companies from
         | selling cartridges that played on a genesis for example, and in
         | one court case the Judge ruled that the company was legally
         | right to breach Sega's trademark rights to achieve that
         | interoperability. Sony, Nintendo, and others all lost similar
         | suits about trying to restrict interoperability with their
         | products and software.
         | 
         | In fact, Sega was going to lose that case so badly, and the
         | precedent was so clearly beneficial to the consumer and market,
         | that they chose to settle it to prevent the precedent from
         | being established. That this is something you can choose to do
         | well after it becomes obvious how the case _should_ end is an
         | atrocious feature of the US  "justice" system. You shouldn't
         | get to take a case all the way to a verdict, and then have an
         | appeals court poke holes in your claims and then say "actually
         | we don't want any of this on the record anymore"
         | 
         | The DMCA as written makes it very easy to prevent
         | interoperability by law simply with a bit of code here or there
         | to make token efforts to prevent access.
        
       | daft_pink wrote:
       | I generally wouldn't want my messages going to
       | WhatsApp/Meta/Facebook, but I'm not from a country where usage of
       | those apps is very high at all.
        
       | pedrozieg wrote:
       | What WhatsApp really needs to do is allow people to store their
       | chats in the cloud. WhatsApp is the only communication tool that
       | forces people to keep everything on their phones - or delete
       | information. This causes WhatsApp to take up a large chunk of the
       | available space on most phones.
        
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