[HN Gopher] White House gives Maduro ultimatum as U.S. moves tow...
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White House gives Maduro ultimatum as U.S. moves toward land
operations
Author : clanky
Score : 19 points
Date : 2025-11-30 20:45 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.miamiherald.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.miamiherald.com)
| ncr100 wrote:
| Maybe Epstein files are hiding in Maduro-land? /s
|
| Unnecessary waste of life, attention, money coming soon.
| more_corn wrote:
| Gunna go get that Nobel peace prize no matter who he has to blow
| up to find it.
| jleyank wrote:
| Somebody should convince the guy that it doesn't count ending a
| war that you started a little while before... Also, there has
| to be a general trend of peacefulness in one's behaviour.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| The only advantages I can see to America pushing for Maduro's
| removal are unlocking mismanaged oil supplies and removing a hive
| of Russian, Iranian and Chinese activity from the Western
| Hemisphere.
|
| Those are the upsides. The downsides are prompting anti-American
| balancing moves across South America, Bay of Pigsing and
| increasing Maduro's legitimacy, giving Russian air defences a
| paintbrush to our kit and fucking it up completely and sparking a
| refugee crisis.
|
| In practice, I'm increasingly convinced we're about to go to war
| because of what a dead pedophile knows about the President.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Don't forget the death and pointless carnage as downsides.
|
| Bombing fishing boats, saying it's "drugs" and using that to
| justify a war in our back-porch is insanity.
|
| Who even supports this? It seems like the most unjustified war
| we've ever started.
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| This feels even more manufactured than the Iraq invasion. I
| don't understand why Trump would do something like this which
| is gonna peel off yet another group of his supporters. Maybe
| he just thinks he's invincible now? He must feel like this
| helps him politically somehow, but I can't figure out how.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _he must feel like this helps him politically somehow,
| but I can 't figure out how_
|
| Distracts from a tariff-ravaged economy and the Epstein
| files. Potentially lets him funnel defence spending to
| allies.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _Who even supports this?_
|
| Over a third of each of 2024 Trump voters and self-identified
| conservatives consider Venezuela America's "enemy" [1]. (Over
| two fifths of each of the male, Hispanic, 65+ and $100k+
| income demos view Maduro unfavourably.)
|
| Also, "weapons and AI platforms that were designed for a
| future conflict with China or struggled to prove themselves
| on the Ukrainian battlefield have found a niche in the
| administration's tech-enabled crackdown on drug trafficking"
| [2]. ("In an interview, Palantir Technologies Chief Executive
| Alex Karp declined to say whether his company's technology
| was involved in counternarcotics operations, but voiced
| support for the strikes. 'If we are involved, I am very
| proud,' Karp said.")
|
| [1] https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabRe
| por... _The Economist /YouGov, November 15 to 17, U.S. Adult
| Citizens_
|
| [2] https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/trumps-
| focus-...
| clanky wrote:
| One third is really not a solid base of support for major
| military action, especially among the administration's
| staunchest supporters. My purely subjective impression is
| that there is plenty of doubt in the ranks of MAGA about
| this, Fox News consent manufacturing notwithstanding. Of
| course, the imperatives of imperialism being what they are,
| I don't think it makes much difference.
| tomatotomato37 wrote:
| Those upsides could have also been accomplished by pointing the
| CIA at Venezuela to do the same thing they've been doing across
| South America for the past fifty years.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _Those upsides could have also been accomplished by
| pointing the CIA at Venezuela to do the same thing they 've
| been doing across South America for the past fifty years_
|
| Has the CIA actually advanced American interests in South
| America? Legitimate question. My layman's understanding is
| they serially fucked the theatres they were assigned to
| alongside America's reputation in exchange for, at best,
| short-term U.S. wins.
| clanky wrote:
| "Has the CIA advanced _American_ interests " is the wrong
| question. The CIA does not work for "The United States"
| proper, it works for a tiny section of it that comprises
| the ruling elites. Those people certainly enjoyed
| significant material benefits from CIA actions in
| Guatemala, Panama, El Salvador, etc.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _CIA does not work for "The United States" proper, it
| works for a tiny section of it that comprises the ruling
| elites_
|
| The CIA is popular with voters [1].
|
| Not superbly. But more than the IRS, DoJ or Department of
| Education.
|
| [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-
| reads/2024/08/12/americans...
| coffinbirth wrote:
| How is it possible that a president of a country can close the
| airspace of another country?
|
| How can the extrajudicial killings of (over 80 by now!) alleged
| drug traffickers without any charges or trials be justified or
| accepted? These are, in fact, crimes against humanity.
|
| I'm convinced at some point in the future U.S. citizens will have
| to learn what war means.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _How is it possible that a president of a country can close
| the airspace of another country?_
|
| To be fair, closing airspace before engaging in air operations
| is an international courtesy. It reduces the chances of downing
| civilian airliners. (In a similar vein, announcing closures and
| then not following through is _incredibly_ damaging.)
|
| > _alleged drug traffickers without any charges or trials be
| justified or accepted? These are, in fact, crimes against
| humanity_
|
| No, they are not. They are war crimes.
|
| If you're concernd about it, call your representative and tell
| them you care about the American military conducting war
| crimes. There is currently momentum on the issue [1].
|
| [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2025/11/30/war-crimes-
| hegseth-...
| coffinbirth wrote:
| It cannot be a war crime if there is no war. There is no
| declaration of war and no approval of Congress. The ICC
| classified these strikes as crimes against humanity.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _It cannot be a war crime if there is no war_
|
| Is this true? Legitimate question.
|
| (Under U.S. law, I _do_ believe they are war crimes given
| they 're an abuse of war powers, whether exercised legally
| or not.)
|
| > _ICC classified these strikes as crimes against humanity_
|
| No, it did not. A "former chief prosecutor at the
| International Criminal Court (ICC)" told the BBC "US air
| strikes on alleged drug smuggling boats would be treated
| under international law as crimes against humanity" [1].
|
| I haven't seen the ICC take an official position on any of
| this, which is expected, since it's a judicial body that
| grinds slowly.
|
| [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd9kgqwnk8wo
| lazide wrote:
| None of it matters while he has a functional US military
| protecting him.
| defrost wrote:
| Part of the mechanism to make this possible is dropping the
| full weight of the DOJ and other three letter agencies down
| hard on anybody who dares to point out the illegality of many
| of the actions here.
|
| eg: _Pentagon Is Investigating a Member Of Congress Who
| Criticized Trump_
|
| ~ https://talkingpointsmemo.com/where-things-stand/pentagon-
| is...
|
| is essentially direct retribution against elected members,
| former military members who merely state that serving troops
| are required to follow the law and the constitution _first_ as
| a priority.
|
| This wastes the time, money, and resources of those prepared to
| state the emperor has no clothes and serves as a dire warning
| to any other that might think to stand up.
| mrlonglong wrote:
| Destabilising south America like this will only entrench the
| cartels and bring the war right into the United States.
| clanky wrote:
| That will be a problem for South Americans and to a lesser
| extent you and me, not the ones pulling Trump's strings.
| DustinEchoes wrote:
| "No new wars"
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(page generated 2025-11-30 23:01 UTC)