[HN Gopher] Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America ...
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Electric vehicle sales are booming in South America - without Tesla
Author : breve
Score : 118 points
Date : 2025-11-29 19:12 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
| juujian wrote:
| Not just Tesla, all established brands we know are left behind. I
| never understood Volkswagen's pivot from 'wait and See's to 'were
| inversing billions' to 'we were too late, abort'. Largest brands
| n terms of units, completely left behind in an emerging segment
| that's already dominating it's largest market (China). So many
| executives in the industry just didn't see the writing on the
| wall. I don't what GM was thinking, trying a truck as their first
| platform for EVs, but it's another indicator. This industry has
| the worst executives. Just don't see the writing on the wall.
| mtrovo wrote:
| This is what makes the innovator's dilemma repeat itself so
| many times in so many industries. It's not that the incumbent
| companies don't see the new technology; it's that they're so
| entrenched in what they know how to do that pivoting to the new
| technology is basically a Hail Mary no matter how you do it. Do
| it too early and your shareholders are going to think you're
| crazy. Do it too late, and you're risking entering a new market
| as the chaser with a bad hand of company, employees, and board
| that don't have any idea of what they're doing.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| I think it's less "pivoting is hard" and more "we know what's
| right and we're not going to pivot".
|
| It's not hard to have smaller R&D teams work on these
| problems to keep the innovation going, but most executives
| are out there prioritizing cost cuttings so that the
| shareholders get the quarterly dopamine boosts on the
| earnings calls.
| prmph wrote:
| Exactly, usually the companies know what's coming up, like
| you said. But, properly shifting gears to play a new game
| requires that you act like a startup again. It likely
| requires foregoing the fat margins you were used to. And it
| likely requires going back to the drawing board and actually
| learning from the market.
|
| And this is what companies find it hard to do. To be fair, I
| think that is not so bad a things. Companies should rise and
| die naturally. A few companies monopolizing markets forever
| does not seem good.
| ruined wrote:
| car manufacturers can afford to experiment - it's not like
| they don't have room in the budget. and they _did_
| experiment.
|
| if you don't know GM's history with electric cars: they were
| positioned to execute a successful transition about thirty
| years ago, but they simply chose not to.
| iamgopal wrote:
| The small part in me understands that, they are banking on
| three things 1) oil will be cheap because of EV boom and hence
| EV dominance will be slow and could take couple of decades 2)
| electric Energy cost will rise significantly because so much
| charging and energy infrastructure required. 3) Battery will
| reach at par with gasoline and matured standardised comodity,
| that will be the perfect time to enter.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I think #1 will probably play out to a certain extent.
| Perhaps as an oscillation between low and high as each wave
| knocks more gas stations out of business and refinery
| capacity offline. But I have to say, even low prices on gas
| won't make me go back -- I prefer my EVs in all regards to
| the ICE equivalents, with the sole exception of marathon
| (>450 miles per day) road trips, which is not my use case.
|
| I hope #2 won't be the future. It's not as easy to just jack
| up electric prices because EVs are charging, because they are
| regulated, and electricity is used for way more than cars (if
| my napkin math is right, on average people will use around
| 30% more electricity if they go full electric).
|
| I expect that as a practical matter #3 is here now, it just
| hasn't filtered down to retail car sales in the US yet.
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| > with the sole exception of marathon (>450 miles per day)
| road trips
|
| I've done 4 3000km road trips and intentionally took the EV
| leaving the ICE vehicle at home. It's a better car, and we
| need to stop to bathroom anyways, so charging isn't
| inconvenient. Saving a few hundred dollars in fuel is nice,
| too.
| gmueckl wrote:
| Long EV trips are possible amd convenient if there are
| enough chargers along the route. Sadly, this isn't the
| case on many routes in the US, at least. Europe is doing
| much better. I have no experience in other places.
| GiorgioG wrote:
| Different people optimize for different things. I have a
| 450 mile trip (each way) next weekend. I can do it in 1
| full tank of gas, but realistically I'll stop once to
| fill up halfway. I don't plan any other stops. If I had
| an EV, I'd probably have to stop twice, for 30+ minutes
| each, extending my already long trip by an hour each way.
| impossiblefork wrote:
| For a while maybe, but cheap EVs are being manufactured in
| Europe as well, and while this could reduce petrol prices,
| it's also going to reduce the need for petrol stations, and I
| think makes petrol basically dead even in a cheap-petrol
| scenario.
|
| A Renault Twingo is going to cost something like 20,000
| euros. That's twice the price of a Dacia Sandero, but a Dacia
| Spring is 16,900. The difference is only 4000, which could
| easily be a year's petrol.
| fpoling wrote:
| A modern small and medium-sized car in Europe consumes like
| 4-6 liters/100 km. Even if one drives 15 thousands km/year
| (way above average) that gives like 900 liters of gasoline
| per year or like 1500-1700 euros with typical European
| prices.
|
| And electricity is not free especially when using fast
| chargers. So at the end the savings is about 500-1000 euros
| per year. Which still is a good deal, but explains why
| people prefer to buy small gasoline cars. I think electric
| car premium must be below 2 thousand euros plus
| infrastructure must improve before gasoline car sales in
| Europe start to collapse.
| impossiblefork wrote:
| Ah. I hadn't realised that modern petrol cars had gotten
| that efficient.
|
| When I had a petrol car it was like at least 12 L/100 km,
| probably more. I remember 100 km drives (Stockholm-
| Uppsala and back) costing hundreds of Swedish crowns in
| petrol.
| ErroneousBosh wrote:
| > When I had a petrol car it was like at least 12 L/100
| km, probably more
|
| What was it? That's approximately what my late-90s Range
| Rover does, although it's converted to run on LPG which
| is much cheaper and much much much cleaner.
| Animats wrote:
| Although Ford's CEO now gets it, Ford's product line doesn't
| reflect it yet. Farley has been bringing a few sample BYD cars
| to the US, for Ford people to drive around and to take apart.
| Farley dragged his executive team to China to see a BYD plant.
| They came back scared. But what Ford actually sells is 1) an
| F-150 converted to electric, 2) a Ford Mustang converted to
| electric, and 3) a Ford Transit converted to electric. They're
| all more expensive, and heavier, than their gasoline-powered
| versions.
|
| BYD shows that electric cars are cheaper if designed properly
| from the ground up. The problem is that the US no longer makes
| many cars. Mostly giant trucks and SUVs. Hauling all that mass
| around requires a huge battery, resulting in 3-ton vehicles.
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| the mustang mach e is a purpose built EV. not a mustang with
| a battery back stuck in.
| bastawhiz wrote:
| > a Ford Mustang converted to electric
|
| I agree with your comment, but I'll be a little pedantic for
| a minute:
|
| As a Charger Daytona owner, I'd _love_ to call the Mach-E a
| mustang, but it 's really just borrowing the brand. Ford has
| said unequivocally that they'll never make an all-electric
| muscle car, which is a real shame. The Mach-E is a great car
| if you're turned off by a Model Y, but you wouldn't choose it
| over a mustang GT or a charger Daytona or a Camaro.
| lostlogin wrote:
| > Ford has said unequivocally that they'll never make an
| all-electric muscle car
|
| What's the thinking here? Pandering to some market segment?
| It sounds like they are organising the deck chairs in the
| titanic.
|
| Edit: I tried looking into the comment. It seems he was
| referring to Mustangs specifically, which is weird as they
| do make an electric one (assuming you agree it's a 'real'
| mustang).
|
| I'm confused.
| grosswait wrote:
| It's not though. Just borrowing the name as they said.
| lostlogin wrote:
| That's just it though. If the name doesn't make it a
| Mustang, what does?
| bastawhiz wrote:
| The Mach-E isn't a muscle car. The comment was
| specifically around the Mustang sedan, which they do not
| have an electric version of.
|
| Honestly, it's befuddling to me. There's a lot of folks
| who could get talked into an electric muscle car, they
| just have to know how to sell it. I own a Charger Daytona
| and literally every car guy I show it to has interest; I
| genuinely think Dodge just doesn't know how to market and
| sell it. I'm 100% confident that the right marketing
| agency could sell 100k of these, but the cohort of "it'll
| never be a Mustang" is far louder than the "wow that
| thing rips" crowd.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| "Americans only want trucks and SUVs." (I hear people say.)
|
| Cool. Then allow BYD non-trucks, non-SUVs into the U.S. then.
|
| The Japanese back in the 70's showed U.S. automakers that
| price and mileage (in that decade anyway) were important to
| Americans. I suspect price is still important.
| lifty wrote:
| Why would they allow it? It would destroy the remaining car
| industry in the US. Better to at least maintain a car
| industry, even if it's inefficient.
| newAccount2025 wrote:
| Why is that better?
| khannn wrote:
| I wish I could get a BYD Dolphin hatch for ~10k USD.
| Somehow my 12 year old Prius is worth 9k on KBB and that's
| insane.
| breve wrote:
| > _a Ford Mustang converted to electric_
|
| The Mustang Mach-e isn't like any other Mustang. It just has
| the Mustang branding.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| Ford is a bad example because they've pretty much abandoned
| all their non truck and transit van segments for years. Even
| if EVs weren't a thing, they do not compete in any of the
| segments and haven't for almost a decade. First it was
| Japanese and German companies eating their lunch, now it's
| the Chinese.
|
| Also, F150 lightening is such a failure. There was a recent
| video of it trying to haul very minimal load and it pretty
| much drained the battery in less than 100 miles.
| Marsymars wrote:
| > Also, F150 lightening is such a failure. There was a
| recent video of it trying to haul very minimal load and it
| pretty much drained the battery in less than 100 miles.
|
| Was that due to something specific with the Lightning, or
| was it just due to the intrinsic energy requirements of
| hauling loads? (Or in other words, does an EV even exist
| that's notably better at hauling loads?)
| darth_avocado wrote:
| Probably both. It was a consumer review, so hard to say
| from an engineering perspective.
| jsight wrote:
| TBH, those tests are mostly marketing failures. EV trucks
| aren't really good at hauling trailers over large
| distances, as the aerodynamics produce a massive impact
| on range.
|
| Multiple tests have shown this by showing 50% or more
| range reduction from pulling lightweight, non-aerodynamic
| loads.
|
| The marketing failure is that the companies have allowed
| consumers to incorrectly extrapolate from this to
| thinking that heavy loads in the bed have the same issue.
| They actually don't as weight is a minimal impact on
| range.
|
| Unfortunately, every thread about carrying sheetrock,
| rocks, mulch, etc shows how misinformed the average
| consumer has become in this space. It has to be a
| significant impact on sales, given that in the US these
| are the only heavy loads carried by >50% of the half ton
| pickups sold here.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| It's an intrinsic issue with hauling loads, combined with
| the relatively low range of F150L.
|
| By comparison the the Chevy Silverado EV gets ~450mi of
| range unloaded and testing seems to have it able to tow
| ~250mi of range at 70mph, which seems plenty between
| stops: https://www.hotcars.com/chevrolet-silverado-ev-
| towing/
| ErroneousBosh wrote:
| > Ford is a bad example because they've pretty much
| abandoned all their non truck and transit van segments for
| years.
|
| Perhaps in the US. Here in the UK you see a lot of Focuses
| and Fiestas, especially the ST models, and the "ST Line"
| models, which have ST trim but boring engines.
|
| Quite often you see the latter on their side a surprisingly
| long way from the tarmac, surrounded by bits of obliterated
| cattle fence, with a very patient farmer rolling it back
| onto its wheels with the Manitou to make the recovery guy's
| day easier.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I've got a Lightning and I think I like the 'converted to
| electric' aspect. Everything that fits on a regular ICE F-150
| fits on my truck. The interior is the same (okay, some trims
| have a big screen, but not all do). It would be nice if it
| had a bit more range, but when I look at the efficiency of an
| R1T or a CT, I don't see that being purpose-built would
| automatically be a win for Ford. Pickups are not ever going
| to be competitive with sedans and CUVs for efficiency.
| Marsymars wrote:
| The problem with the Lightning is mostly that it's a money-
| loser for Ford.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I've never seen a good number on this. Is it money losing
| per vehicle, or because of the amortized R&D included in
| the cost? The problem from my perspective is that it
| hasn't turned out as popular as they hoped -- truck
| buyers are a hard to convert bunch of people. Which is
| too bad, because my Lightning is my favorite of all the
| pickups I've owned over the years. It's a fantastic
| truck.
| eptcyka wrote:
| The lightning isn't selling, almost at all.
| sofixa wrote:
| > 'we were too late, abort'
|
| What do you mean, the ID series for the main VW brand have 7
| upcoming models over the next two years (4 for the Chinese
| market, 3 for everywhere).
|
| > all established brands we know are left behind
|
| I wouldn't go that far. The Renault 5 is one of the best
| selling EVs in Europe, and all the reviews are extremely
| positive (it's a fun and good looking car overall, and
| accessible). They have the 4 rolling out, and the small Twingo
| coming next year. They've also managed to narrow down the time
| from concept car to production at scale to less than 2 years
| (which according to the article on the topic I read is very
| fast).
| constantcrying wrote:
| >I never understood Volkswagen's pivot from 'wait and See's to
| 'were inversing billions' to 'we were too late, abort'.
|
| How is VW aborting in any way? They do not have a new ICE
| Platform, they are totally all in on EVs. Whether that will
| work out is of course another question, but it is bizarre to
| bring up EV when there is also Stellantis, who do not even have
| a dedicated EV Platform for their cars.
| reisse wrote:
| I thought Toyota is doing quite well in emerging markets?
| However they skipped a lot of EV craziness and just do cheap-
| and-reliable ICE cars.
|
| I also never understood why established brands lobbied for EVs,
| and not against them. They clearly had no edge over Tesla and
| Chinese brands, why compete on rival's field?
| lostlogin wrote:
| Toyota hasn't offered pure electric where I am, just hybrids.
| And they have only just started offering plug in models I can
| charge.
|
| I'd love a Corolla or Camri EV - I'm not sure what 'the
| Corolla of EVs' is considered to be.
| jeltz wrote:
| WV seems to do amazingly in Europe so not sure what you are
| talking about. It is Tesla thaumt seems to be leaving the EV
| market with no new exciting models and making the European
| market hate the brand.
|
| https://www.best-selling-cars.com/electric/2025-half-year-eu...
| LunicLynx wrote:
| Reuters disagrees
|
| https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-
| transportation/volksw...
| epmatsw wrote:
| Trivially substitutable goods, at a much lower price, with a now-
| reduced ethical difference. Not hard to see why.
| throw-the-towel wrote:
| Ethical difference? This is South America we're talking about.
| The ethical difference has been working _against_ the US this
| whole time.
| billy99k wrote:
| This is a result of over regulation in the auto industry. I
| always shake my head at the group of people that wants cheaper
| prices on goods and services, but propose regulating large
| companies to death.
|
| China is winning because they don't have to work around pesky
| labor or IP laws. Then we have people pointing to how much better
| they are at business and also want all these protections.
| happosai wrote:
| You have no idea how regulated car business in China is... For
| example china is regulating the "innovative" Tesla style door
| handles..
|
| https://carnewschina.com/2025/09/24/new-safety-requirements-...
| Animats wrote:
| Naw. US labor cost per car is about $880 to $1250, from various
| sources.[1] China EV labor cost is around $550. That difference
| is less than what heated seats add in price.
|
| [1] https://www.oliverwyman.com/our-
| expertise/insights/2025/apr/...
| paxys wrote:
| Tesla was dead in the water when it became obvious that they
| couldn't make a sub-$30K car happen. They will still probably do
| well as a luxury brand, but China is going to fill in the demand
| for affordable EVs in the rest of the world outside USA/EU.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Tesla got far enough for Musk to have the power he wanted and
| then gave up innovating and expanding. China will win the race,
| they have a third of global manufacturing capacity and already
| sell as many NEVs (battery electric and plug in hybrids)
| domestically as are sold in the US every year, while continuing
| to scale.
|
| https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/3334300...
|
| https://insidechinaauto.com/2025/11/01/live-blog-china-octob...
|
| https://www.byd.com/us/news-list/First-BYD-Electric-Vehicle-...
|
| https://rhomotion.com/news/byd-announces-further-global-expa...
|
| https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-where-tesla-and-byd-...
| noosphr wrote:
| I don't think we've seen the end game yet.
|
| I have an electric cargo bike. During a kids party yesterday I
| ran 5 different errands with it while someone with a car
| managed to get stuck in traffic, not find a parking spot, and
| miss the whole thing.
|
| The only reason why cars are the size and shape they are is
| because ICE engines couldn't be made smaller. Electric engines
| on the other hand are small enough that I can have the chassis
| of a fully functioning car be light enough to lift by one man.
|
| I think we will see small, light weight and intrinsically
| pedestrian safe cars made of tubes and canvas replace the heavy
| monstrosities we have now.
| mike50 wrote:
| The Smart for Two existed with an internal combustion engine.
| sofixa wrote:
| > The only reason why cars are the size and shape they are is
| because ICE engines couldn't be made smaller. Electric
| engines on the other hand are small enough that I can have
| the chassis of a fully functioning car be light enough to
| lift by one man.
|
| Nope, the Smart existed for quite a while. Safety standards
| made cars slightly bigger (e.g. the new Renault Twingo is
| bigger than the original), but modern American "cars" are
| massive because that's what marketing has convinced Americans
| it's what they need. American vehicle manufacturers are
| pretty terrible at everything, and efficiency standards nudge
| them that way anyways, so making massive cars with high
| margins is a good deal for them.
|
| In Europe there are SUVs, but the average car is a VW Golf or
| a Renault Clio sized. They are pretty decently sized, good
| visibility, can fit a family of 4, etc. Yeah, you can't haul
| a 50 ton campervan offroading up to Kilimanjaro, sure, but
| that's not what 99% of car trips are for.
|
| > I think we will see small, light weight and intrinsically
| pedestrian safe cars made of tubes and canvas replace the
| heavy monstrosities we have now.
|
| Renault Twizy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Twizy )
| exists, but doesn't sell all that well (compared to "normal"
| cars).
|
| The Citroen Ami (
| https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Ami_(2020) ) is
| pretty popular in certain places (saw a ton of them in
| Amsterdam and semi-rural areas in France).
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > that's what marketing has convinced Americans it's what
| they need
|
| Is there some kind of objective analysis which supports
| this claim? It seems more likely that people vote with
| their wallet, and bigger wins out a lot of the time. It's
| hardly an American manufacturer thing, either, Japanese
| cars have reliably gotten bigger year after year as well.
| sofixa wrote:
| > Is there some kind of objective analysis which supports
| this claim
|
| It's a bit hard to have objective research on marketing
| and public perceptions. But how else do you explain all
| the marketing in that regard, and the fact that
| Americans, on average, even urbanites, keep buying
| massive pickup trucks, the majority of which are never
| used for anything more than a commuter vehicle for 1,
| maybe 2 occupants? Even in rich countries with very
| outdoorsy people (Switzerland, Nordics, hell, the
| Netherlands has camping as a national sport, and during
| summertime they do mass migrations in towed campers and
| campervans towards the south of France, Italy, Spain),
| very few people buy trucks.
|
| Marketing, an arms race, manufacturers not offering much
| else because their marketing works, Americans being very
| aspirational about what they'll do with their vehicles,
| idk.
|
| > It's hardly an American manufacturer thing, either,
| Japanese cars have reliably gotten bigger year after year
| as well.
|
| Japanese vehicles in the US or everywhere? Cars in
| general have been getting bigger because of safety
| features, but American monstrosities with lower
| visibility than literal tanks are an almost uniquely
| American phenomenon (slowly invading the rest of the
| world too).
| jack_tripper wrote:
| _> but the average car is a VW Golf or a Renault Clio
| sized_
|
| That hasn't been the case here in a long time. SUVs and
| crossovers are outselling all other categories.
| sofixa wrote:
| Where is "here"?
|
| Most cars on this list, and the ones I see while living
| in one big European city, and regularly visiting lots of
| others, are not SUVs. There are plenty of them, but even
| then it's on the smaller side (e.g. a Renault Captur, not
| a Escalade 8 wheeled 65ton)
|
| https://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2025/11/europe-
| october-2025-...
| pmg101 wrote:
| Your first three paragraphs are sound.
|
| But surely the problem with the final paragraph is the
| transition? Assuming the old style of vehicle remains on the
| road, then my lightweight one is at risk of being crushed.
| Only a niche minority would choose that (as a cargo bike
| owner, I'm also one, but I recognise most are not, with good
| reason.)
|
| Unless we built a whole separate infrastructure.... We
| already see a lot of electric scooters using cycle lanes.
| bastawhiz wrote:
| I own three electric motorcycles and respectfully disagree.
| You can't make tube and canvas that let a passenger survive
| getting t-boned by a Yukon Denali or an F-250. One high-
| profile accident with a mother and her child getting peeled
| off the road with a coal shovel are all it'll take to kill
| such a form factor forever.
|
| The problem isn't the form factor you're describing, it's
| that you can't put those on the road with 1000+ horsepower
| machines that are 50 times heavier. And on top of that, a lot
| of people just don't want to give up their heated massage
| seats and connected infotainment and removable third row or
| whatever crap they pack in minivans these days.
| slurrpurr wrote:
| Of course ICEs can be tiny. Look at motorcycles, rollers and
| motorbikes. The demand for small cars is just not there
| anymore
| kakacik wrote:
| This is a bit out of touch with reality, presumably you don't
| have a car and seemingly are against any normal sized cars or
| bigger. A very narrow use case should change the world we all
| live in?
|
| Tiny cars can't do longer distances (aka higher speeds)
| safely, physics of car collisions won't let you. They have
| been around for quite some time and popularity is as it is.
| If you are hit by 50kmh car as a cyclist (seems like
| frustration/fear of yours thats behind your words), whether
| car weights 600kg or 1300kg doesn't make much difference to
| your resulting state. Personal cars have specced brakes
| according to their weight so breaking distance is cca same
| regardless of weight.
|
| Where I live (also went through kids birthday party today
| back & forth few times) - somebody with ebike would freeze
| their ass in windchill of fast moving bicycle would be below
| -10C (situation 5 months of a year), slip on partially frozen
| road could be fatal, moving around on rather narrow roads
| that have very little room for anybody but cars (Switzerland
| here but no high altitude) would be literal playing russian
| roulette with rest of traffic, triple that with wide cargo
| ebike. Alas, all parents came to the party in forest hut just
| above our village in their ICE or hybrid cars.
| EliteGadget wrote:
| > The only reason why cars are the size and shape they are is
| because _ICE engines couldn 't be made smaller_. Electric
| engines on the other hand are small enough that I can have
| the chassis of a fully functioning car be light enough to
| lift by one man.
|
| You have seen a motorbikes/mopeds, scooters and micro-cars
| surely?
|
| An electric bike is essentially a moped which have existed
| for like 70-80 years now? A small cars have been around since
| the 1950s.
|
| Cars are the shape they are because normally you want the
| option of carrying 1-5 people. 5 people is 2 adults and 3
| children. BTW cars in the past were much smaller. Compare the
| size of any car from the 1930-40s in the UK to a modern
| European car and you will notice it is much smaller they are.
| nodesocket wrote:
| What, has it been a decade of HN'ers calling for imminent
| demise of Tesla. Meanwhile I've been laughing and buying all
| the way to the bank. Keep on doubting.
| jeltz wrote:
| Tesla will report a very bad 2025 and my prediction is that
| the stock will go up anyway. The valuation is totally
| detached from the fundamentals. Tesla is a company which is
| falling behind in technology and there is not much indication
| that they will br able to fix that. But stock will likely
| stay high for a long time anyway.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Assuming they just manufactured vehicles, then this would be
| the correct take.
| SilverElfin wrote:
| In Europe didn't basically all brands take a hit? It was framed
| as Tesla falling behind but it's more that Chinese EVs are so
| cheap, nothing can compete. Even within China the competition is
| insane, with over 100 car companies fighting to survive and
| giving out big discounts.
| EliteGadget wrote:
| It isn't just Chinese EVs there are Korean brands on the road
| e.g. Jaewoo.
|
| https://jaecoo.co.uk/
|
| I'm in the UK and the only new Fords I see are these huge
| F250/F350 which make my 4x4 (which is relatively small compared
| to a modern 4x4) look tiny.
| haunter wrote:
| You managed to write the name wrong, Jaecoo not Jaewoo, and
| it's chinese not korean. On top of that it's a throwaway
| account.
| EliteGadget wrote:
| I mixed these brands up. Thanks for the correction.
|
| They (Jaecoo) opened a dealership 20 minutes from where I
| am.
| jeltz wrote:
| Pretty sure they confused Daewoo with Jaecoo. But as far as
| I know Daewoo does not exist anymore.
| EliteGadget wrote:
| I confused Jae-woo (a Korean name) with Jaecoo. I think I
| must have mis-spelled the name when googling them after
| seeing the Dealership near me. However I do remember
| Daewoo, I don't think there many left on UK roads.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jae-woo
| lawn wrote:
| Volkswagen is doing very well in Europe.
| LunicLynx wrote:
| Even reuters disagrees.
|
| https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-
| transportation/volksw...
| jeltz wrote:
| No. VW is up 78% and the market in general EV sales is up by
| 22%. It is actually just mostly Tesla doing poorly.
|
| https://www.best-selling-cars.com/electric/2025-half-year-eu...
| LunicLynx wrote:
| https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-
| transportation/volksw...
| Gualdrapo wrote:
| It was announced a few days ago some models of Tesla are coming
| to Colombia at cheaper prices than BYD and the like and people
| here seems to be crazy about Tesla now. Time will tell how
| reliable they are on our poor roads.
|
| And that's one thing about EVs here in general - they are coming
| with no spare tire but a flat tire repair kit, which it's fine
| for small issues but may not be enough for the problems said
| tough roads can give to your tires.
| sofixa wrote:
| > It was announced a few days ago some models of Tesla are
| coming to Colombia at cheaper prices than BYD
|
| How could that be?
|
| At least Renault's low cost models (like the Dacia Spring, sold
| as Kwid in Latin America) are sold for cheap in various
| markets, and are competitive to BYD pricing in the EU and Latin
| America (enough that they're seeing serious growth there).
| Tesla doesn't have anything close, price wise, so how could
| they be competing on price with BYD?
| freddier wrote:
| Colombians are asking that question too. My guess is that
| Tesla is selling them at a loss to compete against BYD. They
| may be sending unsold inventory from the US/Mexico market as
| well.
| analog31 wrote:
| Does that mean there's an arbitrage to be made by re-
| importing them?
| frameset wrote:
| Wouldn't import tax make that nonviable?
| analog31 wrote:
| They're made in the USA.
| schmuckonwheels wrote:
| > And that's one thing about EVs here in general - they are
| coming with no spare tire but a flat tire repair kit
|
| That seems to be the standard for all new cars, both ICE and
| EV; sometimes a spare is available as a paid option.
|
| Which seems insane. But it is what it is.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Yep. My Lightning is the first vehicle I've had with a spare
| in a number of years. Even donut spares are getting much less
| common, not just on EVs.
| weinzierl wrote:
| When I grew up in Germany it always made me proud that 100% of
| taxis were Mercedes Benz. If a car can withstand the rough
| demands of taxi service, it has to be good. And even in South
| America back then German cares were ubiquitous, especially
| Volkswagen.
|
| When I was in Brazil this spring[*] I rode a lot of Uber and they
| were 100% BYD - 100%, no exception. It's not that my head hadn't
| known that German auto was dead but seeing it playing out like
| this hit hard.
|
| [*] northern hemisphere
| IshKebab wrote:
| To be fair taxis have unique requirements. Taxis in the UK were
| like 80% Prius for a long time because they drive very long
| distances and hybrids are very cost effective for city driving
| where you're doing a _lot_ of low speed driving and don 't have
| convenient recharging opportunities. But most people aren't in
| that situation.
|
| Still, I think BYD are kind of killing it.
| Tade0 wrote:
| > But most people aren't in that situation.
|
| Those who commute from the suburbs actually save even more as
| hybrids achieve their lowest consumption going a steady
| 50-70km/h.
|
| Of course the same people could just get an EV and charge at
| home, but in terms of cost-effectiveness hybrids still win in
| this use case.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| BYD recently went live with a highly automated, large scale
| manufacturing facility in Brazil. The BYD Dolphin Mini sells
| for ~$22,500, and the manufacturer already has 200 showrooms
| open across the country.
|
| https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/11/22/cop-brazil...
|
| https://www.byd.com/us/news-list/First-BYD-Electric-Vehicle-...
| moffkalast wrote:
| I'm surprised Mercedes was ever price competitive for taxis
| even in Germany, I mean the average VW would do the job just
| as well at half the cost.
|
| These days they're both priced like they're selling Ferraris
| anyway so yeah. The ID Buzz starting at 70k EUR is such a
| joke.
| forinti wrote:
| I remember all taxis in Portugal being beige Mercedes in
| the 80s,when Portugal wasn't well off. I guess their
| durability is what made them worthwhile.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Mercedes taxis in Europe are not appointed like the cars
| they sell in North America. They are just normal cars
| there.
| forinti wrote:
| They are everywhere. The only limit to adoption is that many
| people live in buildings where chargers can't easily be
| installed.
| MomsAVoxell wrote:
| I've been riding a German electric motorbike for a couple of
| years, and before that, German electric mopeds.
|
| I think there is a lot of innovation in the German electric
| vehicle industry. I am quite excited for BTM, my bikes
| manufacturer, to design and release new versions of their
| platform. This model is distinctly German.
| nutjob2 wrote:
| Sadly the German car industry has lost its way in the EV
| transition and is now vainly trying to get the EU to rollback
| the sun setting of ICE car sales in 3035.
|
| Meanwhile the Chinese are eating their lunch.
| rr808 wrote:
| I think the issue is to create an ICE is a very complicated
| process requiring lots of specialist knowledge, skills and
| technologies. An EV is just much simpler, comes down to who has
| the cheapest batteries. Europe and Japan are great at the
| former, the latter no chance.
| Ankaios wrote:
| _Europe and Japan are great at the former, the latter no
| chance._
|
| Europe and Japan should be totally capable of producing super
| inexpensive batteries. They just don't, at the moment.
| nine_k wrote:
| How? By building entirely automated factories, they way
| they do for medicine production?
| AngryData wrote:
| Im sure some of it is personal bias from experience with them
| but I don't think ICE are as complicated as some people
| think. 90% of the extra shit on them are unnecessary for it
| to work but what those things are and what they do and why it
| broke or failed or how important they are is essentially
| obfuscated from the general public so they seem like overly
| complicated magic. The vast majority of cars I see do not
| fail or get trashed due to engine failure from design flaws
| or anything, most get trashed because people stop caring
| about them and treat them like trash and don't replace that
| $15 sensor, others think they can't afford the maintenance
| because car manufacturers don't give a fuck about having to
| take 3 hours disassembling other unnecessary shit to replace
| a 30 cent sensor that they know will eventually need
| replaced, but the only number the customer seems to look at
| is the total cost of the mechanic quote. They think because
| something is a $1,000+ repair that something seriously is
| worn or old and that the car is on its last legs, instead of
| the reality of that one part being a huge pain in the ass to
| replace but it is otherwise a good reliable motor for another
| 100,000+ miles. And of the cars that do get trashed because
| they have actual major mechanical problems, the vast majority
| of the problems have to do with the body work rusting out
| and/or suspension components needing replaced after being
| used for 3x their expected lifetime, which an EV is not going
| to improve in any way.
|
| Like ive seen people junkyard perfectly working and good cars
| because it is over 150,000 miles and some service guy who is
| looking for work/money told them they need to do scheduled
| maintenance some time soon and they thought the car was too
| old and was junk. And yet very few cars ive seen would not
| make it over 300,000 miles if they spent even 1/10th the
| money of their new car for maintenance on their old.
| ErroneousBosh wrote:
| In the UK, for a very long time they were Skoda Octavias.
|
| I know of two ex-taxis that were scrapped at about five or six
| years old - one was taken off the road because of a deep paint
| scratch down to bare metal from about half way along the front
| wing to the rear door, rendering it beyond economic repair -
| with over half a million miles on the clock each.
|
| Neither had been outside the Greater Glasgow area since they
| were dropped off on the transporter.
| dzonga wrote:
| Tesla has no moat
|
| 1. Batteries - BYD has them beat 2. Self Driving tech - other
| players are better 3. Luxury brands already provide the luxury
| aspect & even better built cars 4. in the US they're being
| saved by US protectionism. in Europe etc - we already see the
| chinese brands making inroads for EV sales
| inthaiguy wrote:
| I wonder how many clicks Reuters get on "Electric vehicle sales
| are booming in South America - without Tesla" vs "Electric
| vehicle sales are booming in South America"
| surgical_fire wrote:
| I actually think that the fact that Tesla is not a factor in
| this growth newsworthy.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| Well, as Tesla fans like to remind people, the MY is or has
| been the most popular model of EV.
|
| So yeah, to see EVs in South America without Tesla is actually
| newsworthy.
| yosito wrote:
| And in Europe and in Asia. Last time I was in the US, Tesla
| looked like a scam.
| tcdent wrote:
| > Chinese brands
|
| There is far more to the logistics and adoption of this outside
| of "Tesla failed to capture the region" as the article's title
| eludes to.
|
| Bribery, government corruption, risky loans, undercutting. It is
| well documented in the case of large infrastructure projects and
| the same playbook will be revealed in time.
| jasonsb wrote:
| Tariffs might keep Chinese EVs out of the US, but they don't stop
| US influence from fading everywhere else. South America is voting
| with their wallets, and 'buy American' doesn't work when the
| price is double and the tech is the same.
|
| Unless the US intends to sanction every country that prioritizes
| value over US geopolitics, this battle is already lost.
| surgical_fire wrote:
| In South America there's also no anxiety over China becoming a
| superpower, which may be an argument against Chinese products
| in the US.
|
| In fact, China has pretty good relations with most South
| American countries. Likely better than the US. I wouldn't be
| surprised if many people view China more favorably.
| jasonsb wrote:
| The average person in the west isn't losing sleep over China
| either. That anxiety is mostly manufactured by the media
| pushing the narrative that they are an existential threat.
| Maybe they are, I don't know. But what I do know is that
| western companies love it when they can sell you overpriced
| products made in China, but panic the moment chinese
| companies sell the exact same product at a fair price.
| LightBug1 wrote:
| >> "Chinese brands gain legitimacy, challenging Western
| carmakers"
|
| Musk has been shaking around his political penis at just the same
| moment as the Chinese manufacturers came of age and are on
| course, now, to supplant Tesla completely.
|
| And the Tesla shareholders / BoD waived through $1t pay package
| as a reward.
|
| Dysfunctional Leadership writ large.
| ab_testing wrote:
| I feel like a lot of readers are missing the main point. US and
| European manufactures do not want to enter this low volume zero
| margin market. The total sales in Latin America (that includes
| Mexico and South America is around five million units - that is
| less than half of what is sold in the US each year. And at a
| price point of 20K it just does not make sense for American and
| European manufacturers given that their R&as costs are higher
| than Asian manufacturers and their North American models are too
| large and expensive for South America markets.
|
| In addition they know that the US is a captive market as the
| government will not allow Chinese companies to sell their cars
| here due to data and security concerns.
|
| So it does not make sense to chase tiny profits.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Fake news? Seems like Tesla is doing just fine down there.
|
| https://finance.yahoo.com/news/byd-blows-past-rivals-tesla-1...
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