[HN Gopher] Chainalysis Successful Deanonymization Attack on Monero
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       Chainalysis Successful Deanonymization Attack on Monero
        
       Author : Anon84
       Score  : 55 points
       Date   : 2025-11-29 12:26 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (darkwebinformer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (darkwebinformer.com)
        
       | embedding-shape wrote:
       | It always seemed weird from Day 1 when I reviewed Monero vs Zcash
       | to rely on anonymization that depends on other nodes and number
       | of honest peers, instead of relying on technical anonymization
       | that Zcash does, seems much more reliable and long-term workable,
       | even though it was much harder and took them longer to arrive at
       | good solutions.
        
         | pclmulqdq wrote:
         | If Zcash had privacy by default, they would have won against
         | Monero for being the private cryptocurrency. As it stands, any
         | private transaction on the Zcash chain stands out like a sore
         | thumb and the use of de-anonymized transactions around it make
         | it easy to figure out how much money was moved. It was a missed
         | layer 8 opportunity on the part of Zcash.
         | 
         | This attack doesn't seem to work if you run a monero node,
         | though.
        
           | embedding-shape wrote:
           | You'd have a bit more credibility if your complaint was more
           | up to date :) Zcash wallets have defaulted to shielded
           | accounts and transactions for some time already.
        
             | pclmulqdq wrote:
             | It took at least half a decade if not a full decade to get
             | to the obvious place and I (and everyone else) wrote Zcash
             | off in that time.
        
               | vosper wrote:
               | You said
               | 
               | > As it stands, any private transaction on the Zcash
               | chain stands out like a sore thumb
               | 
               | Is that actually still the case or has the change to
               | defaults made anonymity more common?
        
               | pclmulqdq wrote:
               | If you look at recent mined blocks, a majority of
               | transactions are still public. So yes, even if the
               | default is shielded wallets and private transactions for
               | a specific wallet, most of the chain is not using them.
        
               | DennisP wrote:
               | True, but as of this month 30% of zcash transactions are
               | shielded, and 20-25% of addresses are private. That's a
               | fairly large anonymity set. The percentage of shielded
               | transactions is also increasing, at a rate that will make
               | them a majority within a year if the trend continues.
               | 
               | https://www.coindesk.com/research/inside-zcash-encrypted-
               | mon...
        
               | embedding-shape wrote:
               | > and I (and everyone else) wrote Zcash off in that time
               | 
               | Seemingly in the ecosystem you exists in yeah, but in the
               | world at large Zcash seems to have at least 6x the
               | volume. I guess "everyone else" didn't get your memo.
               | Regardless, I don't really care personally which one is
               | better or which one you specifically use, as long as what
               | we say is being truthful :)
        
               | pclmulqdq wrote:
               | Are you referring to on-exchange volume of a coin that
               | has pumped 10x in a few months? And it's only 6x the on-
               | exchange volume of monero? It sounds like people still
               | don't use it. If you look at the blockchain, you will see
               | very few transactions per block (literally less than one
               | per minute), so it seems the volume is almost entirely on
               | the exchanges. It's probably people speculating on
               | privacy for some reason, combined with some dumping of
               | the pre-mine.
               | 
               | The majority of the on-chain use is also public
               | transactions, so it seems the "privacy by default"
               | setting doesn't really matter.
        
               | monero-xmr wrote:
               | I know (and many others do as well, it's not that hidden)
               | of the group that pumped Zcash. Very well executed pump
        
       | pjdkoch wrote:
       | September 17, 2024
        
         | kobieps wrote:
         | surprising how often this happens...
        
           | RandomBacon wrote:
           | Monero's main "competitor" seems to be Zcash which is run by
           | a VC-backed company. The company gets 20% of all mined Zcash.
           | The incentive is very strong to FUD Monero.
           | 
           | As of this comment, Monero is #26 on CoinGecko's list of
           | crypto by marketcap with Zcash at #27. I'm guessing that's
           | why there's a few of these posts on HN all of a sudden.
        
             | kobieps wrote:
             | Sure, but I more meant people recycling year old news for
             | clicks, and smart people falling for it. That's a very
             | broad phenomenon and not tied to crypto.
        
       | nunobrito wrote:
       | This isn't deanonymization, it is modifying and infiltrating
       | nodes to then listen what is happening from naive users
       | connecting to them.
       | 
       | There was never an expectation of privacy when you connect to
       | servers outside your control with non-encrypted data. That is the
       | reason why the article itself mentions that this isn't working
       | when running your own node, as most people do.
       | 
       | This is the same thing as complaining that Monero is no longer
       | anonymous because Windows is capturing screenshots and keyboard
       | presses when you open the desktop app.
       | 
       | Monero remains anonymous by default.
        
         | dodomodo wrote:
         | In practice they (allegedly) took anonymouse transaction and
         | linked it to real world identity. Call it what you want.
        
           | fruitworks wrote:
           | The transaction wasn't really anonymouse in the first place,
           | but I agree that the UI should warn users more when working
           | in "light wallet" mode.
        
         | abecedarius wrote:
         | > running your own node, as most people do.
         | 
         | Huh, surprising -- it's _very_ different from most people using
         | most software. (Of course HN is not most people.)
         | 
         | I tried to fill myself in by asking Claude Opus neutrally "do
         | most users of Monero run their own node?" and was told it
         | couldn't find good data, it's community-promoted behavior, but
         | there were multiple reasons for skepticism.
         | 
         | I have no idea, I'm just noting my surprise.
        
           | krior wrote:
           | I don't know what asking AI adds to the discussion.
        
             | ianbutler wrote:
             | Well reading comprehension tells us they were surprised
             | that most monero folks run their own nodes and that they
             | were unable to find supporting information.
             | 
             | Your comment however does actually add nothing.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | No, reading comprehension tells us that Claude Opus
               | output the "unable to find supporting information" claim,
               | which abecedarius faithfully relayed to us. There's no
               | evidence in the text that suggests abecedarius attempted
               | to find supporting information.
        
               | ianbutler wrote:
               | Okay and if they had said Google we wouldn't be doing
               | this dance, people just hate AI and its obnoxious to see
               | comments about it on HN all the time. On a crypto post no
               | less.
               | 
               | We get it you guys don't like AI, next!
               | 
               | It is equally obnoxious to people who talk about AI for
               | everything as if it is a savior, it's a tool use it or
               | don't.
        
           | shmel wrote:
           | It's literally in their FAQ: https://www.getmonero.org/get-
           | started/faq/
           | 
           | Anyone curious about how Monero is implemented would
           | immediately understand why it's a bad idea to use remote
           | nodes.
           | 
           | >What is the difference between a lightweight and a normal
           | wallet?
           | 
           | >For a lightweight wallet, you give your view key to a node,
           | who scans the blockchain and looks for incoming transactions
           | to your account on your behalf. This node will know when you
           | receive money, but it will not know how much you receive, who
           | you received it from, or who you are sending money to.
           | Depending on your wallet software, you may be able to use a
           | node you control to avoid privacy leaks. For more privacy,
           | use a normal wallet, which can be used with your own node.
        
           | nunobrito wrote:
           | Most people don't know nor use Monero at all.
           | 
           | Most monero users are on the desktop where the common
           | practice is to download and run their own nodes and/or use
           | monero from Android on apps like CakeWallet, where their node
           | is used and assumed as trustworthy.
           | 
           | To give background info: most users are on desktops because
           | monero mining happens using CPU and instead of GPU, so they
           | install the wallet which comes with a miner included and
           | installs the node as well. They basically make some little
           | income every single day and accumulate that profit.
           | 
           | The other miners like GuPax also install a node on the local
           | computer as well, so a large majority of users simply runs
           | nodes locally because they don't want to send their hashes to
           | remote nodes which might fool them.
        
       | bhouston wrote:
       | So chainalysis is working for governments now? I guess it makes
       | sense.
        
         | MadsRC wrote:
         | Now? Chainalysis has always worked for governments...
         | 
         | It was basically spawned out of the government needing help
         | with investigating crypto - I think it was Mt. Gox...
        
           | Anon84 wrote:
           | Exactly. "Tracers in the Dark" (https://a.co/d/aos3Nka) does
           | a good job of telling that story and a couple of others from
           | the early days of blockchain analytics
        
       | walletdrainer wrote:
       | Chainanalysis is certainly not running the Tor attack as
       | described here.
       | 
       | It's technically possible, but not really practical. We'd have
       | seen darknet markets as they currently exist eradicated a long
       | ago.
        
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       (page generated 2025-11-29 23:01 UTC)