[HN Gopher] Penpot: The Open-Source Figma
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Penpot: The Open-Source Figma
        
       Author : selvan
       Score  : 665 points
       Date   : 2025-11-27 02:14 UTC (20 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | b3ing wrote:
       | I think Figma stole the grid layout idea from penpot, but it's
       | common in software to do that
        
         | simulo wrote:
         | Penpot took it from CSS.
        
       | echelon wrote:
       | I was immediately drawn to the emoji in the commit message
       | titles.
       | 
       | I love this team. It's so endearing.
        
         | tyleo wrote:
         | While I agree, I'm not sure it's a team, it looks like mostly
         | one dude :)
        
           | jhancock wrote:
           | Thats Clojure...one person can look like a whole team ;)
           | 
           | couldn't help being cheeky...actually there are quite a few
           | contributors.
        
             | douchescript wrote:
             | Yeah, finally some lisp!
        
           | 8organicbits wrote:
           | I'm seeing several contributors:
           | https://github.com/penpot/penpot/graphs/contributors
        
           | pavlov wrote:
           | Penpot is a startup that raised $12M a few years back:
           | 
           | https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/02/penpot-the-open-source-
           | pla...
        
           | okhobb wrote:
           | Figma is also one dude.
        
             | kekub wrote:
             | 1.65k employees according to Wikipedia.
        
       | Myzel394 wrote:
       | I tried to self host penpot a few months ago but the app would
       | crash after a few minutes and not properly show the canvases. So
       | a no for me
        
         | zonghao wrote:
         | They seem to update very frequently; I don't know if it still
         | crashes now -- I'm planning to try it myself.
        
           | v3ss0n wrote:
           | What i tested happned 5 months ago. if the issue exist 1
           | month ago too it is the same problem.
           | 
           | The problem lies with the whole thing is XML and SVG unlike
           | Figma's Canvas/WebASM . The whole thing is unable to scale.
        
             | IseardMi wrote:
             | They are actually working on a new canvas-based rendering
             | engine in order to get away from using the DOM so that
             | should help performance quite a bit.
             | 
             | https://community.penpot.app/t/its-time-for-penpot-to-
             | almost...
        
       | WillAdams wrote:
       | For folks who want a stand-alone desktop release:
       | 
       | https://github.com/author-more/penpot-desktop/releases
        
         | RamblingCTO wrote:
         | That's a pity:
         | 
         | > Penpot Desktop loads the Penpot web application like a
         | browser does. For offline use, the built-in local instance
         | creator can set up and run a local Penpot instance via Docker
         | (per the official self-hosting guide).
        
           | seu wrote:
           | Came here to complain about the same. I downloaded the app,
           | but it needs an online account. What's the whole purpose of
           | making it open source and downloadable, if it doesn't work
           | offline?
        
             | Mashimo wrote:
             | The self hosted version needs an account outside your
             | network?
        
               | WillAdams wrote:
               | Apparently.
               | 
               | I'm stuck at waiting for a confirmation e-mail.
        
               | noahjk wrote:
               | PENPOT_FLAGS=disable-email-verification
        
               | WillAdams wrote:
               | Which file needs that?
        
               | viraptor wrote:
               | That sounds like an environment variable to set when you
               | start it.
        
               | WillAdams wrote:
               | That was it.
               | 
               | I'm in!
               | 
               | Thanks!
        
             | franga2000 wrote:
             | > built-in local instance creator
        
       | v3ss0n wrote:
       | Unstable, very crash prone with just a few users designing 10
       | plus pages. And a huge memory hog too.
       | 
       | I run it on Dedicated server with 64GB Ram , it starts to lag as
       | soon as a 5-6 pages and memory 20GB, lagging out the whole team
       | and then crashes.
        
         | shakna wrote:
         | Figma is a huge memory hog, too...
        
           | mitemte wrote:
           | Figma has become absolutely shocking in the past few years.
           | The performance is so bad these days. It doesn't help that
           | almost every designer doesn't care to split things into more
           | than one document. I've seen Figma documents with hundreds of
           | screens.
        
             | okhobb wrote:
             | I'm sure if the original developer bothered to show up
             | again he could fix it in a weekend.
        
             | gyomu wrote:
             | _> It doesn't help that almost every designer doesn't care
             | to split things into more than one document_
             | 
             | That's how these tools encourage you to use them. If the
             | tool crumbles under its own usage modalities, that's
             | because it's poorly designed, not the user's fault.
        
             | 542458 wrote:
             | You don't need to split into multiple files to make large
             | documents manageable, multiple pages works just fine (pages
             | you're not using aren't loaded). But even still, I have
             | absolutely massive pages with ~100 screens on them that
             | work just fine on this base-tier M2 MBA.
             | 
             | Honestly given the complexity of the screens involved I
             | feel Figma's performance is pretty reasonable. (Now,
             | library publish and update - that's still unreasonably slow
             | IMO)
        
         | SoKamil wrote:
         | > very crash prone
         | 
         | > And a huge memory hog
         | 
         | On the server side or the frontend side?
        
       | vsviridov wrote:
       | Have been self-hosting this on Docker/Portainer for several weeks
       | for a few people. Works fine so far.
        
       | Alupis wrote:
       | You don't just have to self-host, they offer a hosted version
       | that's far more reasonably priced than Figma[1].
       | 
       | Their free tier supports up to 8 members, limited to 10GB of
       | storage.
       | 
       | The next tier supports unlimited members, and is price-capped at
       | $175 a month, but is limited to 25GB of storage.
       | 
       | The final tier is price-capped at $950 a month, with unlimited
       | storage.
       | 
       | [1] https://penpot.app/pricing
        
         | poly2it wrote:
         | > unlimited storage
         | 
         | Surely it's not actually unlimited. I wish such claims wouldn't
         | be as common in the industry.
        
           | walski wrote:
           | Does it really matter if in real-world-use 99% of the users
           | never hit any limit? And I cannot blame anyone to use
           | "unlimited" instead of "fair use, with reasonably large
           | limits so that you will (probably) never see any restrictions
           | in your use of the product"
        
             | okhobb wrote:
             | HN users want to know if you're allowed to host the whole
             | Internet on it.
        
               | reddalo wrote:
               | Creative people could start encoding terabytes of movies
               | inside of Penpot documents.
        
               | tonyhart7 wrote:
               | This is why we can't have nice things.
               | 
               | People see 'unlimited' and will do everything in their
               | power to 'fact-check' it, forcing the producer to place a
               | 'hard cap' and making everyone's life worse.
        
               | wltr wrote:
               | Don't use the unlimited lie then, I assume.
        
               | tonyhart7 wrote:
               | It's not a lie if no one is abusing it.
               | 
               | Travel to high trust societies if you don't get what I
               | mean.
               | 
               | Things would be so much easier if we could expect human
               | decency and ethics, even if there is no law against it,
               | because it goes against our values as humans.
        
               | threeducks wrote:
               | > It's not a lie if no one is abusing it.
               | 
               | It absolutely is a lie, but you might live in a society
               | where constant lying has been normalized. Personally, I
               | believe that society would be better off if companies
               | were held to the letter of their words.
        
               | tonyhart7 wrote:
               | Because that's not a lie; under special circumstances, it
               | can be true.
               | 
               | For example, consider a restaurant that offers free rice
               | refills because Asian people love eating rice to fill up.
               | An employee working overtime who really needs it can get
               | as many refills as they want.
               | 
               | Of course, this system falls apart if everyone starts
               | doing it, as the restaurant would need to bake that cost
               | into the price to sustain the business.
               | 
               | But my point is: you can have nice things in society, or
               | you can have a dystopia where people take advantage of
               | each other at every single opportunity.
               | 
               | The choice is yours.
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | A dystopia is where people lie about free rice bowls to
               | get people in the door but can't deliver. That's not nice
               | things its taking advantage of a lie and blaming people
               | who take up the offer.
        
               | tonyhart7 wrote:
               | read again, its not lie
               | 
               | its like giving up your seat when there is pregnant woman
               | on the train
               | 
               | if you really need it then its okay, but I know why you
               | don't believe this because its hard to have this policy
               | in US where everyone weight 200 lbs
        
               | twelvedogs wrote:
               | Someone will abuse it though, so why bother with the
               | bullshit
               | 
               | You don't build high trust societies with lies
        
               | tonyhart7 wrote:
               | "You don't build high trust societies with lies"
               | 
               | Yes because you build it with trust, I trust you to not
               | ruin this things so everyone can enjoy it
               | 
               | I can understand where you coming from because when I
               | watch YT videos about people that exploit the loophole or
               | game the system, people literally praise them for
               | "beating the game" and this is happen mostly with US
               | where everyone is materialistic
               | 
               | but my counter argument is game theory, where everyone
               | can cooperate for betterment of your environment
        
               | sallveburrpi wrote:
               | Things would be so much easier if there weren't a super
               | small minority of extremely greedy rich and powerful
               | people who ruin it for everyone...
               | 
               | Alas we decided collectively that money trumps(sic)
               | everything so low trust society is the natural
               | consequence of this.
               | 
               | At its core it's a spiritual problem. Capitalism is cool
               | but making it a religion has its trade offs.
        
               | Aurornis wrote:
               | In my experience the SaaS unlimited abusers often aren't
               | even trying to do capitalism things. They're just abusing
               | the systems for the thrill of it.
               | 
               | They go on Reddit and brag and compete about doing
               | useless things to store files on these services, like a
               | competition. They're bragging on HN about GitHub tools
               | that force files into a non-file service and have rate
               | limiters tuned to upload right at the server's rate
               | limit.
               | 
               | It's not capitalism, it's people thinking they're winning
               | points against capitalism by abusing a corporation. Even
               | if that corporation is a small startup trying to offer a
               | product on a small budget.
        
               | sfn42 wrote:
               | If there is a limit then it isn't unlimited. That's what
               | the word unlimited means.
               | 
               | Either it is _unlimited_ or it is not. If you call
               | something unlimited then there should not be a limit. You
               | cant abuse it, it 's unlimited. There is no limit, so you
               | can never go beyond the limit which means you can never
               | abuse it.
               | 
               | That's what unlimited means. If you mean something else
               | then use a different word.
        
               | wltr wrote:
               | I understand that, but the phrasing is just wrong.
               | Unlimited is unlimited. Otherwise it's just doublespeak.
        
               | mnx wrote:
               | "starbucks says there is no limit on how many napkins I
               | can use but they got mad when I took the whole container,
               | liars"
        
               | threeducks wrote:
               | It might have become socially acceptable to lie when
               | everyone else is, but it is still a lie. Back in my days,
               | you at least had to put an asterisk behind such
               | outrageous claims.
        
               | wltr wrote:
               | Heck, adding a word like 'almost' would make it rather
               | truth.
        
               | Aurornis wrote:
               | Can confirm. Worked at a startup with some very generous
               | (though not "unlimited") limits designed to allow for
               | bursts and spikes of usage.
               | 
               | Some people took it upon themselves to try to abuse and
               | saturate the limits to "prove" that we couldn't handle
               | it.
               | 
               | We could actually handle it, but it wasn't worth offering
               | it to this small number of users who were trying to prove
               | a point by abusing it to the max without an actual use
               | case. They just wanted to show off on Reddit that the
               | were making our servers suffer.
        
           | tossandthrow wrote:
           | It likely is as it is not general purpose storage.
           | 
           | Even though your Linux iso's are called "images", they can
           | not be added to a penpot design file - sorry to say.
        
             | kuschku wrote:
             | Can penpot import images? Given enough time, anything that
             | can store PNG will become an automated backup backend
        
           | PaulRobinson wrote:
           | It's a little like "unlimited holidays". If you turn up on
           | day 1 and then say "Right, I'm off on my unlimited holidays!
           | See you never!" and disappeared, they would stop paying you.
           | There is an implicit fair use clause in all unlimited offers
           | - I know a guy who pushed back on "unlimited holidays"
           | because he didn't want to get penalised in performance
           | reviews and it turns out that in his UK-based org it was 29
           | days a year, or one day more than the legal statutory
           | minimum.
           | 
           | Firms like penpot are basically saying "look, if you pay us
           | this much, we're not going to put hard quotas on you, just
           | get on with it", but if you then try storing backups of annas
           | archive on it, they are probably going to suggest that you
           | are not operating within the spirit of the agreement, even if
           | you're within the letter of it: fair use will apply.
           | 
           | Some people like to know where they stand. They want hard
           | quotas. So fine, ask them for hard quotas. Ask for the fair
           | use clause and understand it.
           | 
           | Most of us know what it means (it's a soft quota with fair
           | use limitations), and are happy with not abusing the tier and
           | having a bit more freedom, though.
        
             | noduerme wrote:
             | Hah. I'm a self employed freelancer, but a friend works for
             | (MegaCorp Intl) and every time we go for beers he mentions
             | that he has _" Unlimited Paid Time Off"_. But whenever I
             | ask if that means he could take a few months to hike the
             | Andes with me, he says.... well, no, actually they'd fire
             | him if he took too much time. How much is too much? I ask.
             | Well basically anything that would make them notice his
             | absence, apparently.
        
               | falcor84 wrote:
               | And there's a problem in the other direction too - I
               | don't expect people who really can leave for a few months
               | without their absence being noticable to have much job
               | security.
        
               | noduerme wrote:
               | This is a corporate culture thing. I can be in the middle
               | of nowhere for months, and it makes no difference to my
               | clients. No one even notices. I have a phone that always
               | rings, and laptop. I don't have a corporate health plan
               | or a 401k but I don't have to ask permission..
        
               | sallveburrpi wrote:
               | But if you are still reachable you aren't on time off...
               | I also work remotely from anywhere; doesn't mean I'm
               | constantly on vacation
        
               | Aurornis wrote:
               | Every company is different. I've had the "unlimited time
               | off" company where the _CEO_ would go after anyone who
               | took a week or more.
               | 
               | I've also had the unlimited time off company where I took
               | an actual month off and it was fine because I got my work
               | done.
        
             | poly2it wrote:
             | The issue is that if storage is too cheap, people will
             | inevitably mine filecoin on it. Additionally, promising
             | "unlimited storage" and not holding that promise might be a
             | legal liability.
        
               | written-beyond wrote:
               | I laughed but also hate the fact that the world needs to
               | worry about "file coin" ruining it for us.
        
               | sallveburrpi wrote:
               | Tbh if it wasn't crypto it would be something else -
               | people always find a way. Tragedy of the commons or
               | something like that
        
           | chrisbuc wrote:
           | Perhaps "uncapped" rather than "unlimited" would be a better
           | term for us to start using
        
             | BoredPositron wrote:
             | I would say it's the opposite. If there is moral compass
             | and we don't get high-up if someone tries to store their
             | Linux isos on pen pot and gets a ban.
        
         | hk__2 wrote:
         | For now. Mattermost too used to be cheaper than Slack, and
         | Gitlab too used to be cheaper than GitHub. I know the story,
         | "look we did X, the open-source Y" and two years in you now
         | have two versions, the free and the "enterprise" one with
         | exclusive features.
        
           | sallveburrpi wrote:
           | What would be a better way to fund large-scale open source
           | projects in your opinion?
           | 
           | Please don't say donations because that doesn't work for
           | something as complex as the projects you mentioned
           | 
           | Edit: ok there are some where it works like Blender - no idea
           | how they do it though...
        
             | CuriouslyC wrote:
             | The open core model is fine, but your community edition
             | should be a reasonably complete product. Gitlab is a good
             | example of this. They're not selling access, they're
             | selling convenience.
             | 
             | The features that differentiate to enterprise customers
             | don't matter to small shops anyhow: policy compliance,
             | monitoring, fancy reporting, fine grained access
             | control,etc. Give away tools that are useful for
             | individuals and small teams, and charge for the features
             | that are large team/enterprise related.
        
               | Tostino wrote:
               | You're naive if you think those don't affect small shops.
               | 
               | If you want to do enterprise software, even as a small
               | shop, things like requiring pull request approvals is an
               | absolute must.
               | 
               | Our customers demand it.
               | 
               | Doesn't matter how many employees we have, or how
               | profitable we are. If we want to sell software to most
               | large CPG companies, this stuff is non-negotiable.
               | 
               | So I just use GitHub.
        
               | CuriouslyC wrote:
               | The workflow I like in Gitlab is protected branches. This
               | lets you go fast on a dev trunk then pull changes over
               | intentionally.
        
             | mirzap wrote:
             | There are multiple models:
             | 
             | 1. Like Sentry - open source all the features, provide the
             | cloud (hosted) version. Most businesses don't want to self-
             | host, but want a bit cheaper alternative
             | 
             | 2. Paid tier, buy once - own forever with 1 year update
             | support. Later you can charge lower price to extend the
             | update cycle.
             | 
             | 3. Blender model - donations. Very hard to get it right.
             | 
             | 4. Laravel/Next.js model - Open source the tooling,
             | monetize the platform
        
               | satvikpendem wrote:
               | Sentry isn't open source, it's source available.
        
             | Aurornis wrote:
             | > What would be a better way to fund large-scale open
             | source projects in your opinion?
             | 
             | Same price for same core feature set would be a good start.
             | Or lower price for smaller feature set.
             | 
             | Having a premium price for a reduced product means your
             | target audience is limited to people willing to pay a
             | premium for a lesser product to support open source. There
             | are some groups willing to do this, but most simply want a
             | tool that does the job without adding too much to their
             | already huge SaaS budget.
             | 
             | I'm extremely sensitive to core workflow tools for a
             | company these days. It only takes a few days of lost work
             | because some tool corrupted your design or the engineers
             | have to spend a few days working around an issue in a tool
             | to make the effective cost of using that tool extremely
             | high.
             | 
             | Engineering time is expensive. If a tool that costs $20 per
             | person per month causes even one issue per month that
             | potentially produces hours of work and rework (like the
             | spontaneously resizing element a commenter above noted)
             | then the true cost is going to be in the hundreds or
             | thousands of dollars per month in lost productivity.
        
             | hirako2000 wrote:
             | Blender did it by facing the industry going cutting edge
             | for a decade or more. They somehow found enough donation to
             | keep the thing as indie would support it just enough. Today
             | blender is arguably better than industry standards, they
             | just have to face the marketing wave but like Wikipedia
             | probably got plenty of support.
             | 
             | These are the rare examples of Linux going through the
             | torrent, typically emerges as proud victorious, with
             | reasonably low profile
        
           | CuriouslyC wrote:
           | Mattermost is nice but I lost some respect for them for a
           | couple reasons:
           | 
           | 1. Slightly worse product than Slack (if just for lack of
           | connect) yet they're charging more for the cheapest license.
           | 
           | 2. Gating reasonable OAuth support behind the paid version is
           | crippleware
           | 
           | IMO they're gonna get forked, and they'll deserve it.
        
           | Alupis wrote:
           | That's the beauty of the open source, self-hosted option
           | then, no? If they radically change pricing one day, pick up
           | your ball and self-host without any limits.
        
             | hju22_-3 wrote:
             | And that's exactly why they don't do radical changes,
             | because people hate those. They do slow, small and
             | insidious changes over a long time period. And then it
             | isn't as easy to simply "pick up your ball" and be on your
             | way.
        
       | givemeethekeys wrote:
       | With the integration of AI, people are using Figma for more than
       | just design.
       | 
       | A recent use-case that a friend was gushing about:
       | 
       | - Input notes, data into Figma and ask its AI to summarize it
       | into presentation worthy slides with built-in games to keep
       | meeting members engaged, and host them to a website.
        
         | rubenvanwyk wrote:
         | What? That's crazy.
        
       | nullzzz wrote:
       | It's indeed a reasonably usable tool. Gets very slow with large
       | canvases though, so don't put everything into a single canvas.
        
       | boriskourt wrote:
       | Penpot has been invaluable! A very nice system and team. 'On
       | prem' Figma has a lot of unique possibilities.
        
       | aedis wrote:
       | Lunacy is amazing for me. Very fast and intuitive.
       | 
       | Tried Penpot, it was laggy and non usable.
        
         | rc1 wrote:
         | https://icons8.com/lunacy
         | 
         | Not open source however
        
           | barrenko wrote:
           | Thank you both, had no idea about existence of lunacy (the
           | app).
        
         | rubenvanwyk wrote:
         | I found out about Lunacy because it uses AvaloniaUI; have been
         | a fan of it so far.
        
       | hbcondo714 wrote:
       | First discussed here 3 years ago:
       | 
       |  _Penpot: Open-source design and prototyping platform_
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32851262
       | 
       | 1145 points, 128 comments
        
       | cyberax wrote:
       | Do you support MCP? I really want to be able to do conversation-
       | based UI design!
        
         | lejalv wrote:
         | https://github.com/penpot/penpot-mcp
        
       | boriskourt wrote:
       | Also, when it comes to UI elements this is my go to vector
       | editor. Keeps things simple, has good ways of handling units and
       | layout. A pleasure designing custom icons, or quick graphical
       | elements. Plus a great export system to keep things organized.
       | 
       | There are many things you can do besides full app flows, it
       | doesn't dictate how you use it. Really reminds me of early Sketch
       | and how productive I was with it. Its wild that this is open
       | source.
        
         | arcastroe wrote:
         | It is my go-to vector editor as well. But a large pain point is
         | that text elements cannot be vectorized or converted to paths
         | or shapes. So your designs cannot be exported meaningfully
         | because there is no guarantee that the receiving end will have
         | the same fonts you designed with.
         | 
         | Exporting to svg may look completely different when opened
         | elsewhere if your designs have any text elements.
        
       | tonyhart7 wrote:
       | Clojure huh???? never see that outside financial system
        
         | boriskourt wrote:
         | https://pitch.com/ is also a huge Clojure visual app. They
         | build UIX [0] which is a really nice interface to React.
         | 
         | [0]: https://github.com/pitch-io/uix
        
       | comezkandirali wrote:
       | Why don't they provide a desktop version, similar to software
       | such as GIMP, Inkscape, and others? Do they believe they cannot
       | achieve the desired revenue through crowdfunding? Many projects--
       | most notably Blender--have been highly successful using this
       | approach. It seems unreasonable that an average designer should
       | be required to learn server administration
        
         | wltr wrote:
         | The closest analogy would be Sketch for macOS, which Figma
         | simply copied at first, and then mostly replaced. I would love
         | to see open source Sketch for open source systems.
        
           | Valodim wrote:
           | You mean which Figma replaced in the market, because they
           | were not limited to a native app?
           | 
           | This is imo a cautionary tale that being a native app
           | primarily is a bad idea in this year.
        
             | wltr wrote:
             | From the user perspective Figma is great, and I might say
             | it's even better. However, all that came from throwing more
             | money into the problem, I believe. Figma just won because
             | they invested unlimited money into this, while Sketch might
             | be self-funding, if I'm correct here. To me this is rather
             | 'money is a very nice asset to have' kind of thing.
        
               | mattkevan wrote:
               | Very different strategies. Sketch has been self-funding
               | and sustainable from day 1. They have had 20m funding
               | recently, but a fraction of Figma's 749m.
               | 
               | Figma lost over 1bn in Q3 on revenues of 274m. Share
               | price is down 70% from IPO 3 months ago.
               | 
               | It's also clear from Figma's latest product releases - a
               | grab bag of unfinished AI tools and a laughably shoddy
               | website builder - that their primary audience is
               | investors and not end users. I don't think the market of
               | product designers is large enough to support their
               | valuation and have any hope of making a decent return
               | unless they diversify rapidly into other areas and try to
               | become the next Adobe. Meanwhile Canva and more AI native
               | tools are busy biting at their heels.
               | 
               | Speaking as a daily user, I hope they stay around long-
               | term and don't enshittify themselves too much. But I'm
               | not optimistic.
        
           | boriskourt wrote:
           | Figma has set an expectation for designers that their
           | projects support multi-user editing by default and are
           | available to clients, teammates and stakeholders without
           | having to install anything. Its hard to go against that kind
           | of productivity in any org.
           | 
           | Penpot provides the same.
        
             | wltr wrote:
             | I'm actually surprised it delivers on the promise. Last
             | time I checked it a couple of years back, it was nowhere
             | near.
        
           | b3ing wrote:
           | Sketch copied Fireworks, which Adobe abandoned after buying
           | out Macromedia. I knew XD would fail, which is funny because
           | Adobe had the best UI tool but didn't know what to do with
           | it.
           | 
           | They still are really clueless, Animate has had hardly any
           | updates in 13yrs, yet other animation tools offer a lot of
           | innovative features.
        
         | sodimel wrote:
         | There is in fact an effort to make a desktop application!
         | 
         | Source (& releases): https://github.com/author-more/penpot-
         | desktop
         | 
         | Topic on penpot forum: https://community.penpot.app/t/penpot-
         | desktop-road-to-1-0/72...
        
           | comezkandirali wrote:
           | I am referring to the convenience of being able to download
           | it from the store and start using it immediately. If it were
           | as effortless as I described, they would reach a much larger
           | number of users
        
             | boriskourt wrote:
             | https://penpot.app/ you don't have to download it at all :)
        
               | comezkandirali wrote:
               | Thanks for the information, but I was talking about the
               | advantage of local usability.
        
             | franga2000 wrote:
             | > If it were as effortless as I described, they would reach
             | a much larger number of users
             | 
             | Almost certainly not. If you need this kind of tool, you'll
             | either self-host it, use the hosted version or use Figma.
             | There are no comparable offline-only alternatives. What
             | users are they using exactly?
        
         | boriskourt wrote:
         | I am not sure what you are really asking here. They have almost
         | 20k commits of frontend and server code [0] over half a decade
         | of development. What would a desktop version of this look like
         | outside of a bundled Tauri/Electron wrapper?
         | 
         | [0]: https://github.com/penpot/penpot
        
           | comezkandirali wrote:
           | I am not a software developer. There are many people who
           | think like me...
        
       | wltr wrote:
       | So, Java instead of wasm, but open source. While LogSeq is an
       | open source copycat (not really) of Obsidian, I simply can't
       | stand it. I have tried Penpot a couple of years back, so cannot
       | say anything about it, with the exception that I noticed it's
       | Clojure. Would love to learn more if someone can comment on that.
       | I guess I'm biased against Java, but I'm not experienced with it,
       | so I may be very wrong on that one. Of course having an open-
       | source Figma around feels empowering, so much it is ingrained
       | into the current dev process.
        
         | nuriaion wrote:
         | Penpot is also implemented in Clojure/ClojureScript.
         | ClojureScript is a Clojure Dialect which compiles down to
         | JavaScript. So there is no Java involved on the frontend :)
        
           | wltr wrote:
           | Perhaps my bad. I just don't know Clojure at all, and
           | honestly it might be the first time I'm seeing it, hence the
           | mistake. My quick search prior to my posting returned this:
           | 
           | >Clojure is a dynamic and functional dialect of the
           | programming language Lisp on the Java platform.
           | 
           | So I thought this is built on Java, or like that. I'd love if
           | someone could explain it in simple terms, as I'd love to drop
           | the 'Java = bad' attitude. It's just that my prior experience
           | taught me to stay away from Java.
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
             | There are a few things to unpack here. Clojure is a lisp
             | hosted on the Java virtual machine (JVM). Subsequently,
             | someone created Clojurescript which is an implementation
             | (of the vast majority of) Clojure that compiles to
             | JavaScript. The majority of Clojure code can run on either.
             | 
             | "Java = bad" is also something that you should probably
             | drop. The JVM in particular is a very robust host and
             | there's a large ecosystem for it. Java the language has
             | also improved over the years, but the JVM is great (and has
             | a large market share as a result).
        
         | Mashimo wrote:
         | At least the linked repository contains 0% Java.
         | 
         | Clojure 79.2%
         | 
         | JavaScript 7.2%
         | 
         | SCSS 6.0%
         | 
         | Rust 4.7%
         | 
         | HTML 1.4%
         | 
         | Shell 0.4%
         | 
         | Other 1.1%
        
           | Antibabelic wrote:
           | They are referring the Clojure, which is hosted on the JVM.
        
       | maelito wrote:
       | It's amazing how the design world in my experience loves to use
       | closed-source software, Figma first. The chiasm with the dev
       | world is huge. Penpot's cool in this perspective.
        
         | kleiba wrote:
         | In many industries, you want to use a mix of (a) the best tools
         | available for the job, and (b) what everybody else in the same
         | industry uses.
         | 
         | Open vs. closed source is a secondary consideration outside
         | tech circles, and often within.
        
       | closingreunion wrote:
       | I feel like we are in a godlden age of foss tools that are
       | reasonably competitive with existing proprietary incumbants.
       | 
       | I'm going to try to run an instance for my local creative
       | community. If everyone chips in server costs and donation, then
       | it would be huge savings for everyone.
        
       | supermatt wrote:
       | I really wanted to like penpot, but when I tried a few months
       | ago, simply navigating between pages (even on the example
       | documents) was causing parts of the document to change in bizarre
       | ways. I didn't want that level of risk with documents I actually
       | cared about, so continued to use figma. I guess it's time to give
       | it another shot.
       | 
       | EDIT: still broken 8 months later :(
        
         | cirelli94 wrote:
         | I think you should post a issue at this point D:
        
           | supermatt wrote:
           | I raised the issue in the forums at the time, with video
           | captures demonstrating the issue(s).
        
             | ogrisel wrote:
             | I think it would help to open an issue on github making
             | explicit the following three points explicit in the report:
             | 
             | - steps to reproduce from scratch;
             | 
             | - what you expected to happen;
             | 
             | - what you actually observed (include the screenshot or
             | video capture in addition to a textual description).
             | 
             | Otherwise, you might risk your report being ignored due to
             | a silent misunderstanding about the mismatch between your
             | expectations and the actual results.
        
               | supermatt wrote:
               | At the time i wasn't sure if it was PEBCAK, which is why
               | i started a discussion in the forums. As there were no
               | replies, i received no notifications, and so I forgot all
               | about it.
               | 
               | If anyone is interested in opening a bug report you can
               | see the issue here: https://imgur.com/a/hZ1ja9o
        
               | ogrisel wrote:
               | Personally, I do not understand why you think there is a
               | bug from this screen capture alone. Maybe because I am
               | that familiar with penpot and figma, but still, I do not
               | find it obvious.
               | 
               | This is why it's important to describe explicitly the
               | three points in text:
               | 
               | - steps to reproduce;
               | 
               | - what you expected to happen;
               | 
               | - what actual result you observe instead.
               | 
               | Something that might be obvious to you but isn't for
               | others will just be silently ignored most of the time.
               | 
               | EDIT: I now see the problem after reading your other
               | reply above:
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46064757#46069546
               | 
               | This is why it's important to describe explicitly the
               | difference between what you expected and what you
               | observed. I swear I did not see the change in button
               | width before reading the linked comment.
        
               | supermatt wrote:
               | > This is why it's important to describe explicitly
               | 
               | That is a fair point. I will take it on board when giving
               | people screenshots and videos of bugs in future.
               | 
               | > I did not see the change in button width
               | 
               | There's actually a lot more visual changes than that just
               | the button, but I will leave that to the reader as an
               | exercise in spot-the-difference ;)
        
               | pixelatedindex wrote:
               | > There's actually a lot more visual changes than that
               | just the button, but I will leave that to the reader as
               | an exercise in spot-the-difference ;)
               | 
               | This is fair. But issues like this will never get my
               | attention in general because I don't have time to do this
               | exercise - I would much rather have it all spelled out.
               | Even if there are a bunch of related issues they won't
               | get fixed in a single PR, it likely will be multiple.
               | 
               | I guess my point is that if you really want OSS projects
               | to improve, the issue submitter can't just ask the
               | maintainer "figure it out". It totally works this way in
               | the corporate world though (IME).
               | 
               | Edit: I'm sorry to have jumped to conclusions. Leaving my
               | comment up for accountability.
        
               | supermatt wrote:
               | I didn't ask the maintainer to "figure it out". I posted
               | a thread in the forum with multiple videos to start a
               | discussion.
               | 
               | People here have stated I should have filed on GitHub,
               | and because I don't want to link my GitHub to this
               | account I suggested someone else do it.
               | 
               | That was 6 hours ago, and people are still commenting
               | about my lack of a suitable report rather than actually
               | reporting it correctly themselves - as is evident by the
               | lack of a new issue on the github.
        
               | pixelatedindex wrote:
               | I'm sorry for jumping at you like that.
        
               | supermatt wrote:
               | No problem :)
        
               | pixelatedindex wrote:
               | > I swear I did not see the change in button width before
               | reading the linked comment.
               | 
               | I didn't either! I stared at that gif for a few minutes
               | and I couldn't tell what the problem is (or what to look
               | for). It wasn't until you said "changing button width" I
               | knew where to focus my attention.
        
               | ErroneousBosh wrote:
               | "Content not available in your region"
               | 
               | So, given that Penpot appears to mostly be developed in
               | the EU, you'd need to fix that part first.
        
               | supermatt wrote:
               | I'm not sure what you are referring to. If you mean the
               | video link, I am in the EU and can see it.
        
               | IshKebab wrote:
               | I hate how every time someone even talks about an issue
               | with an open source project, some smart alec replies
               | "well did you raise an issue?" - or worse - "did you send
               | a PR to fix it?".
               | 
               | We are all very aware how bug reporting works. And user
               | criticism of bugs isn't somehow invalidated just because
               | the users didn't go to the sometimes very large effort to
               | report bugs.
               | 
               | I wouldn't have reported this bug either. If the example
               | documents are getting corrupted just by navigating them
               | that indicates that it's just a really buggy project
               | (corroborated by other comments here) that I'm not even
               | going to use, so why would I spend my time working on it?
        
               | theultdev wrote:
               | I can see both sides of the dilemma and I don't
               | necessarily like when a maintainer defaults to "open a
               | PR" but asking for a reproducible issue wherever
               | requested is not too much to ask.
               | 
               | With a PR I understand not wanting to put the effort in
               | as it may not be merged. But offering up a reproducible
               | example on the correct forum is the least you could do.
               | If you want the problem fixed that's the best way
               | forward.
        
               | supermatt wrote:
               | > offering up a reproducible example on the correct forum
               | is the least you could do
               | 
               | I suggested someone do that 8 hrs ago:
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46069471
               | 
               | So far no takers. Just people saying what they would do
               | instead of actually doing it :)
        
         | yuters wrote:
         | I've loaded an example document and do not see what you mean
         | when navigating between pages. A problem like that should be
         | extremely jarring and it is very hard to believe it would be
         | ignored.
        
           | supermatt wrote:
           | > A problem like that should be extremely jarring
           | 
           | Agreed - I don't see how its not glaringly obvious to anyone
           | who uses the app:
           | 
           | https://imgur.com/a/hZ1ja9o
        
             | dallen33 wrote:
             | Genuinely asking - what's the issue? I don't see it.
        
               | supermatt wrote:
               | I click to navigate to the "Examples" page (I am
               | gesturing with my mouse to circle around a bit I want you
               | to look at). Then i navigate to "Main components", and
               | back to "Examples" and the content in that area has
               | changed. For example, the button has changed to half the
               | original width.
        
               | morcus wrote:
               | It's that very bottom button you're referring to, right?
        
               | supermatt wrote:
               | Thats the one I specifically mention, sure, but there are
               | many more changes to the page overall if you compare the
               | before and after.
        
             | ninkendo wrote:
             | Unrelated but imgur is basically malware at this point. I
             | had to click through so many layers of nagging popups
             | (including a "don't support us" button, then a severely
             | low-contrast "view in safari" button on a dialog explicitly
             | designed to get me to accidentally click the app link),
             | then when I finally got to your picture, any sort of
             | interaction with the page whatsoever, including pinch-
             | zooming to see the image, just took me away to a different
             | page altogether.
             | 
             | I sincerely hate imgur and hope the whole site goes
             | bankrupt, and I can't stand it when anyone links to them.
        
               | supermatt wrote:
               | Can you suggest a low-effort alternative I can use in
               | future?
        
               | dugidugout wrote:
               | https://catbox.moe/
        
               | IshKebab wrote:
               | Yeah can't see that lasting. I wish someone would make
               | one with _limited_ adverts that just pays for the hosting
               | and moderation costs. How hard can it be?
        
               | culi wrote:
               | https://alternativeto.net/software/imgur/
               | 
               | Here's a comparison of alternatives
        
               | fnord77 wrote:
               | strange, I got no pop ups at all
        
               | virgil_disgr4ce wrote:
               | Yeah, imgur had very simple & humble origins and fostered
               | a surprisingly active, reddit-like community (though I'm
               | sure imgurians would resent that particular comparison),
               | and then holy shit it just turned into a bizarrely
               | bloated overstuffed hodgepodge of fire-garbage. I just
               | looked at the homepage for the first time in forever and
               | --wait, what? "Arcade"?
               | 
               | Bleh.
        
               | omnicognate wrote:
               | Also it's not accessible in the UK without workarounds
               | that I'm not going to bother with for that dumpster fire
               | of a site.
        
               | sergiogjr wrote:
               | I'm glad that at times like these, I switched to Brave
               | browser on all of my platforms (desktop and mobile). I
               | can't recommend it enough.
        
             | tgtweak wrote:
             | Came with receipts lol - hopefully they can repro and fix
             | this but the fact it as omitted for 8 months kind of hints
             | at how little people are using it.
             | 
             | Yeah you can really see the resize comparing the before and
             | after. https://jpst.it/4KgSB
        
             | yuters wrote:
             | Wow you're right. I've tried again with the same
             | wireframing kit and it happened to me too! That's
             | unbelievable.
        
       | sreekanth850 wrote:
       | I tried Motiff and penpot, to be framk Motif was way superior
       | than both figma and penpot in terms of rendering and performance
       | with large design files. unfortunately they shutdown due to
       | lawsuits. Went back to figma.
        
       | lexicality wrote:
       | I dunno if I can move to a design platform that doesn't have a
       | silly name. It'd ruin the joy I get every day when I open it.
        
       | wildmXranat wrote:
       | Interesting. No idea how it works, but I'm willing to try this
       | out for a quick test as long as I can self host it
        
       | leo_e wrote:
       | I'm willing to pay the "performance tax" of the web stack/self-
       | hosting if it means my design files aren't held hostage in a
       | proprietary cloud silo.
       | 
       | Figma is fantastic software, but it has become a single point of
       | failure for entire product orgs. If Penpot is "laggy" right now
       | but gives me a docker-compose up guarantee that I own the
       | pipeline, that's a trade-off I'll take.
       | 
       | Performance can be optimized eventually (it's code); closed-
       | source licensing terms cannot be optimized by users (it's legal).
        
         | rtaylorgarlock wrote:
         | Exactly. I'm a little interested to see if perhaps designer's
         | eyes will continue to open to the power of licensing terms and
         | control of their work with the whole AI conversation. The only
         | designers i've heard say they care about open source are on the
         | web side of design.
        
         | elsa26 wrote:
         | Do you mean you would want to self-host apps like penpot if it
         | was easy to do so?
        
       | singpolyma3 wrote:
       | I want to like penpot, but on even my beefiest computers it
       | causes the whole system to slow to a crawl when opening anything
       | complex.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | There's an unofficial desktop version.[1] It lags the hosted
       | version quite a bit. Anyone tried it?
       | 
       | [1] https://community.penpot.app/t/penpot-desktop-road-
       | to-1-0/72...
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | For me the deciding factor is which one has access to the most
       | free packages of already-designed objects (i.e., for making
       | workflows, etc.). How does penpot do in that regards compared
       | with Figma?
        
       | diacritica wrote:
       | Hi, Pablo from Penpot here.
       | 
       | - New rendering engine should fix the performance issues. See
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciG0U5jJtHY (older reference
       | https://community.penpot.app/t/its-time-for-penpot-to-almost...)
       | Open beta coming in the next few weeks, finally!
       | 
       | - Our business model is Open Nitrate (see
       | https://community.penpot.app/t/penpots-upcoming-business-mod...).
       | For the impatient, think of it as a reverse open-core. The
       | current pricing model for SaaS is quite straightforward. The
       | "unlimited storage" for Enterprise on SaaS is fine, believe me.
       | 
       | - This is a European startup that was founded in 2011 and pivoted
       | to a product-centric actvity in 2021. We're 45 people. We believe
       | open source is the right social contract. All employees use Linux
       | as their operating system. Yes.
       | 
       | - In terms of our vision of AI, I published this whitepaper in
       | August https://penpot.app/blog/penpot-ai-whitepaper/ If you want
       | to understand how we think about Penpot, design and platforms,
       | read it.
       | 
       | - 3 months later, we can demo our MCP server capabilities here
       | https://community.penpot.app/t/penpot-mcp-server-showcase-as...
       | but see also our internal folder with 1min clips here
       | https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1CCuBqHEevWsp15bY...
       | (my favourite is the flat design to design tokens and back to
       | design). "design as a graph" is our ML-based applied research. We
       | hope to have something cool ready at some point next year.
       | 
       | - The whole point of building Penpot was to unite designers and
       | developers. New tools and platforms can play a role. We focused
       | on declarative and semantic design paradigms departing from
       | imperative design paradigms.
       | 
       | - We have 1.2M users, 25k Penpot new deployments every month, 30k
       | new SaaS signups every month and a growing community of
       | contributors and partners. Ironically, the early adopters are
       | Fortune 500 companies knowing that a cycle is over and that they
       | need to own their design assets. UI design is now as valuable as
       | code, if not more.
       | 
       | - I don't like the "Open-Source Figma" label as we're building a
       | superior tool but I understand it's a nice shorcut for now :)
       | 
       | - DM me on Linkedin if you have a couple of millions to spare :P
        
         | dustingetz wrote:
         | are you happy with ClojureScript?
        
           | diacritica wrote:
           | I'm afraid it depends on whom you ask. Some devs really like
           | it, some others don't. As we move towards a more multilingual
           | stack, everyone will be happy and the product will shine even
           | brighter. I don't code in ClojureScript (or Clojure) so I
           | can't answer directly. Here's a nice blog post though (on why
           | Penpot chose Clojure) https://community.penpot.app/t/penpot-
           | chose-clojure-as-its-l...
           | 
           | The new rendering engine is wasm + rust + skia, in case
           | you're curious.
        
       | mdtrooper wrote:
       | Sorry (maybe fall some negative karma points to me) but I tell
       | that Penpot remembers to me to YaCy
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YaCy . When a project is awesome
       | but the language made it is the worse (YaCy is made of in java,
       | and PenPot Clojure).
        
         | rnewme wrote:
         | Just for curiosity, what lang would you have picked for YaCy in
         | 2003, and which one for the Penpot today?
        
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