[HN Gopher] EU Council approves Chat Control mandate for negotia...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       EU Council approves Chat Control mandate for negotiation with
       Parliament
        
       Author : mseri
       Score  : 84 points
       Date   : 2025-11-26 21:52 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.techradar.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.techradar.com)
        
       | tonoto wrote:
       | Is this the end of secure communication within EU?
        
       | raverbashing wrote:
       | Note this is the council position
       | 
       | The path from position to actual implementation (details) is long
       | 
       | And you can bet there's still a lot of opposition of people (with
       | actual involvement in the legislative process)
       | 
       | And legal hurdles for implementation as well
       | 
       | (this all reminds me of the discussion around the copyright
       | directive where people here were decrying it was going to be the
       | end of memes. So, how did that go again?)
        
       | giuliomagnifico wrote:
       | In a nutshell, there will be no more intrusions into chats, but
       | only obligations for the companies to provide preferential
       | channels for victims of these crimes.
        
         | debugnik wrote:
         | And companies considered high-risk will have to "contribute to
         | the development of technologies to mitigate the risks relating
         | to their services." Which sooner or later will involve another
         | attempt at client-side scanning.
        
       | thecopy wrote:
       | Seems... fine? At least i dont see any invasion of privacy or
       | encryption related obligations in this proposal.
       | 
       | The EU ostensibly wants to improve innovation, i wonder how these
       | new assessment regulations help with that, especially for SME and
       | startups.
        
         | halJordan wrote:
         | "High risk" providers will be obligated to "contribute"
         | technologies "to mitigate." Seems like a doublespeak way of
         | saying enforced decryption or enforced backdoors.
        
           | stephen_g wrote:
           | Yes, I see this as the people pushing for surveillance and
           | control taking what they can get for now, with the view to
           | bring it back to mandatory scanning before all is said and
           | done.
        
           | potato3732842 wrote:
           | It's one of those things that will obviously be used to boil
           | the frog over time via beurocratic rules.
           | 
           | Year 1 a minimum viable effort manual process will be fine.
           | But they'll say "not good enough" to someone every now and
           | then and the minimum can do in order to get a) permission b)
           | enforcers not crawling up your ass (IDK if it will be
           | permission based or enforcement after the fact based) will
           | ratchet up.
           | 
           | By year 10 or 20 "everyone" will have an API or a portal or
           | whatever.
           | 
           | And worse, by creating a compliance industry they create a
           | whole suite of business and people who will ask for more,
           | more, more more.
        
           | orwin wrote:
           | No, because EUCJ still have power to interpret the laws, or
           | to declare the laws illegal. And the EUCJ, while incredibly
           | pro-consummer, seems to really, really dislike the police
           | state.
           | 
           | It will happen only if the council manage to defang the EUCJ
           | (it does try, regularly, to reduce the judiciary power by
           | forcing it to make unpopular statements on obviously illegal
           | laws, so it might be a long term goal).
        
           | dr_hooo wrote:
           | Sadly, another attempt will likely be made at some point. At
           | least the regulation is quite explicit:
           | 
           | > This Regulation shall not prohibit, make impossible,
           | weaken, circumvent or otherwise undermine cybersecurity
           | measures, in particular encryption, including end-to-end
           | encryption, implemented by the relevant information society
           | services or by the users. This Regulation shall not create
           | any obligation that would require a provider of hosting
           | services or a provider of interpersonal communications
           | services to decrypt data or create access to end-to-end
           | encrypted data, or that would prevent providers from offering
           | end-to-end encrypted services.
        
       | jacknews wrote:
       | I know it's the recognized term for 'officially designated
       | authority', but 'competent authority' seems to conflate two
       | traits that do not necessarily co-habit.
        
         | Zaiberia wrote:
         | Just read it as "we have the competence to make decisions with
         | authority on this issue", though we all wish it always meant
         | "we have authority to make competent decisions on this issue"
         | xD
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | Legal competence is like a legal person -- it's a subset of
         | what we normally associate with the term.
        
       | throw_a_grenade wrote:
       | The crux is in those ,,risk assessments", to be approved by
       | authorities. IIUC those authorities will be able to designate
       | e.g. Signal ,,high risk" and slap penalties unless they
       | ,,mitigate" the risk. Hard to tell what will happen without
       | seeing final regulation.
        
       | johnwayne666 wrote:
       | Does this already include the parliament's position based on a
       | trilogue or will there be amendments before it's voted in
       | parliament?
        
         | throw_a_grenade wrote:
         | IIUC no, this is Council position before trilogue.
        
       | aestetix wrote:
       | Honest question. The EU was created as an economic and trade
       | institution. How has it morphed into a wierd political
       | institution, which NATO was already supposed to be?
       | 
       | The root question: how did an organization that ushered in things
       | like the Euro become a body that decides whether Europeans are
       | allowed to have personal privacy?
        
         | saubeidl wrote:
         | > The EU was created as an economic and trade institution. How
         | has it morphed into a wierd political institution, which NATO
         | was already supposed to be?
         | 
         | That is not the case.
         | 
         | The 1957 Treaty Establishing the European Community contained
         | the objective of "ever closer union" in the following words in
         | the Preamble. In English this is: "Determined to lay the
         | foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe
         | .....".
         | 
         | > The root question: how did an organization that ushered in
         | things like the Euro become a body that decides whether
         | Europeans are allowed to have personal privacy?
         | 
         | Sensationalist framing aside, how does any government become a
         | body that decides anything?
        
           | aestetix wrote:
           | That treaty was established just over a decade after Hitler
           | surrendered, when there were two Germanys, an Iron curtain
           | across Europe, and a lot of other things which changed
           | significantly after the Wall fell. Surely you would agree
           | that those words meant something quite different then than
           | they do now?
           | 
           | I don't think my framing was sensationalist at all. Chat
           | Control is using the threat of child porn to make people
           | forget the reasons why the ECHR cares so deeply about
           | privacy. I'm not sure why Denmark is pushing it so hard, but
           | governments have long feared and hated encryption.
        
             | saubeidl wrote:
             | Not only are you moving your goalposts from "this wasn't
             | the original purpose" (it was - it's part of the founding
             | document!), but it has been reaffirmed and strengthened
             | over and over again since:
             | https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-
             | briefings/cbp-...
             | 
             | Don't get me wrong - I, too, care about privacy and think
             | Chat Control is a horrible idea, that thankfully seems to
             | be getting shut down. That doesn't mean the EU is somehow
             | not legitimate as a governing body.
        
               | aestetix wrote:
               | I was not moving goalposts. I was saying that the way we
               | interpret the words has changed over time, and therefore
               | we are taking words that meant one thing in 1957 and
               | reinterpreting them to fit assumptions for today. Thus
               | the semantic drift creates a shift.
               | 
               | To address the other point, I think we're missing a
               | question of scope. Is the EU a legitimate governing body
               | for negotiating trade deals and employment regulations
               | between countries? Absolutely. I question however whether
               | in recent years EU has begun to either scope-drift or
               | expand their scope beyond what might be considered
               | reasonable.
               | 
               | I think this is a natural tendency within human nature,
               | especially when a governing body is given some power.
               | Over time new opportunities arise which allow the body to
               | gain more power, and then they reinterpret founding
               | documents to include some of the new powers they want. I
               | think it is pretty clear this is happening with the EU.
               | Look at the rise of nationalist parties in Germany and
               | France, etc.
        
           | inglor_cz wrote:
           | "contained the objective of "ever closer union" "
           | 
           | Such words in any Preamble are usually meant as a lofty
           | declaration of some ideal, not a concrete political goal.
           | 
           | After all, "ever closer" does not even mean federation, it
           | means a unitary state, which is "closer" than a federation or
           | a confederation.
           | 
           | If you believe that a single sentence in a 1957 treaty can be
           | used as a ramrod to push European federalization from above,
           | you will be surprised by the backlash. European nations
           | aren't mostly interested in becoming provinces of a future
           | superstate, potential referenda in this direction will almost
           | certainly fail, and given the growth of the far right all
           | over the continent, I don't expect the governments to agree
           | to any further voluntary transfer of powers to Brussels.
           | 
           | Also, the European Commission is not a government and is not
           | _meant_ to act as a government that can decide  "everything".
           | 
           | The countries that formed the EU have only agreed to transfer
           | _some_ powers to Brussels. Not give it an unlimited hand over
           | everything. And Chat Control is a major infringement of
           | constitutional rights in many countries, where inviolability
           | of communication except for concrete warrants has been
           | written into law for decades.
           | 
           | Imagine a situation if the German Constitutional Court says
           | "this is illegal by the German Grundgesetz, and German law
           | enforcement may not execute such laws". Do you believe that
           | German authorities will defer to Brussels instead of its own
           | Constitutional Court? Nope. Same with Poland etc. Local
           | constitutional institutions have more legitimacy among the
           | people than the bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels.
        
             | saubeidl wrote:
             | I don't think a mere Federalization should happen. I think
             | a unitary state is - as you said! - what we all signed up
             | for and what we should get.
             | 
             | There's a reason the "ever closer" phrasing has been
             | repeated over and over again - in the 1983 Solemn
             | Declaration, the 1997 Maastricht Treaty, the 2009 Lisbon
             | treaty etc etc.
             | 
             | Look at China's rise and our fall - a direct consequence of
             | centralization and the lack thereof.
        
               | constantius wrote:
               | I assume this is sarcasm, but, for those reading, a
               | unitary state is definitely not what those words meant.
               | If they did, that would mean that 27 countries willingly
               | and fully signed away their sovereignty, without
               | knowledge of the public. The only times where this has
               | happened before in world histoey was either surrender in
               | the face if insurmountable odds, or a decision by the
               | elites in exchange for unimaginable riches. As far as I
               | know, the politicians and bureaucrats who made/signed
               | those treaties didn't become billionaires since.
        
               | saubeidl wrote:
               | This has happened many a time. The US constitution is one
               | such example.
        
               | inglor_cz wrote:
               | There is a reason indeed - unbridled utopianism that will
               | eventually sink us.
               | 
               | In practice, the only political party that openly
               | advocates for a European Federation, Volt, is polling
               | around statistical error from zero in most EU countries.
               | The will of the people isn't there.
               | 
               | Becoming a federation or even a unitary state isn't a
               | self-executing protocol. Actual heads of governments have
               | to meet, agree to dissolve their individual countries
               | into a superstate with one central government, and actual
               | parliaments have to ratify this.
               | 
               | You don't have the vote to do this democratically.
               | European nationalisms were at their lowest ebb in cca
               | 2000; since then, they have returned with vengeance.
               | 
               | You don't have the force to do this forcibly. No Genghis
               | Khan or Napoleon on the scene.
               | 
               | And in the current connected world, you can't even do
               | this by stealth. The only result of the people actually
               | learning of such a plan would be far-right governments in
               | France and Germany at the same time, ffs.
               | 
               | Please stop. Just stop. When I was a youngster, I
               | witnessed violent collapse of Yugoslavia, somewhat less
               | violent collapse of the Soviet Union and fortunately non-
               | violent collapse of Czechoslovakia, three entities whose
               | constituent nations didn't want to be tied together. I
               | don't want to see 2.0 of those, continent-wide, when I am
               | old.
               | 
               | "Look at China's rise and our fall - a direct consequence
               | of centralization and the lack thereof."
               | 
               | Becoming more like China is not particularly attractive
               | for former Eastern Bloc countries. Chat Control is enough
               | of a window into such future that I don't want to go
               | there. Also, your history is massively incomplete.
               | Cherry-picking of some events while ignoring others.
               | 
               | The pinnacle of European power, with the European
               | countries controlling half of mankind, happened around
               | 1900, with no centralization of the continent in place.
               | And we have been losing our relative strength since 2000,
               | which is precisely the time when the continent is most
               | integrated ever.
               | 
               | Chinese central government unleashed at least two total
               | disasters on its own population in the 20th century - the
               | Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. It can
               | unleash some more if a sufficiently unhinged person gets
               | into power again. With centralized power, you are free to
               | make some Huge Mistakes.
               | 
               | I certainly don't want future Brussels to start some
               | European versions of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, just
               | because they can. Austria-Hungary collapsed on such
               | stupidity after 400 years of continuing integration.
        
               | saubeidl wrote:
               | > The will of the people isn't there
               | 
               | The will of the people never mattered. All that matters
               | is ideology and force to execute on it.
               | 
               | > Becoming more like China is not particularly attractive
               | for former Eastern Bloc countries
               | 
               | Yeah, what's attractive for former Eastern Block
               | countries is mooching off Western Europe, taking our
               | money and then blocking any progress and electing
               | regressive autocrats. In some ways, it was better when
               | you were one of our (Austrian) colonies. At least we
               | managed to drag you into modernity against your will.
               | 
               | > Chinese central government unleashed at least two total
               | disasters on its own population in the 20th century - the
               | Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution. It can
               | unleash some more if a sufficiently unhinged person gets
               | into power again
               | 
               | That's the beauty of it! They did all of that _and yet_
               | they are thriving now. None of this shit matters in the
               | long term. To quote Mao -  "A revolution is not a dinner
               | party".
        
               | LunaSea wrote:
               | > what we all signed up for
               | 
               | No, we didn't. The EU ignored the French and Dutch
               | people's votes.
        
             | surgical_fire wrote:
             | > Local constitutional institutions have more legitimacy
             | among the people than the bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels.
             | 
             | Repeating this bullshit over and over does not make it
             | true.
             | 
             | The EU has a parliament that approves laws. The
             | commissioners are appointed by the democratic elected
             | governments. It has a legitimate mandate.
        
               | inglor_cz wrote:
               | Ask local armed forces, judges or police whether they
               | would back Brussels or their local government if it came
               | to an actual forceful showdown.
               | 
               | This is the ultimate legitimacy test, not things written
               | on paper.
        
               | surgical_fire wrote:
               | > things written on paper.
               | 
               | "things written on paper" is the basis of any serious,
               | respectable country. "Things written on paper" should be
               | respected, because when you are serious about your
               | commitments, words matter.
               | 
               | I don't want to see the country I live in become a
               | shithole because local armed forces or police think
               | themselves above the law.
               | 
               | The ultimate legitimacy test is whether you are serious
               | about the things you sign. Not if some proto-fascist
               | wants to tear down institutions.
        
         | blibble wrote:
         | ever closer union in the Treaty of Rome
         | 
         | the entire point is to build a country called Europe
         | 
         | and the EU is built on the "Monnet method", where it slowly
         | ratchets forward taking more power from national parliaments
         | and giving it to the EU council/commission
         | 
         | (with a useless parliament there to make it appear democratic)
         | 
         | the UK leaving is the only example of the ratchet being
         | reversed
        
         | hshdhdhj4444 wrote:
         | The EU almost certainly has protected privacy for most European
         | nations than it has hurt it.
         | 
         | You simply need to look at the precipitous decline in privacy
         | in the UK after it left the EU to see some of the most stark
         | examples of this.
        
         | surgical_fire wrote:
         | You speak as if the EU is somehow divorced from the national
         | governments, and is imposing its will to the helpless states
         | that compose it.
         | 
         | The commissioners that propose laws are appointed by each
         | national government. The national governments of each member
         | state is all in on this.
         | 
         | NATO is not a political institution. It is a defense treaty
         | (this one completely outside the realm of democracy).
        
         | sunaookami wrote:
         | >How has it morphed into a wierd political institution
         | 
         | Von der Leyen, an autocratic fascist that is ruining this
         | continent. She failed to push her agenda in Germany so she
         | "failed upwards". Even how she got this position was highly
         | controversial and went against the top candidate principle. The
         | EU commission is exceeding their competencies. The EU is not
         | democratic, there is no parliamentary oversight, the parliament
         | can't even introduce legislative proposals. No one can vote for
         | the EU commission, only the parliament can vote for or against
         | all the proposed candidates (not one by one). Parliament is
         | essentially a rubber stamp for the commission.
         | 
         | I could be jailed for this comment btw.
        
         | throw_a_grenade wrote:
         | EU (and preceding organisations since European Coal and Steel
         | Community) were created so that there will be no war in Europe.
         | How exactly this objective is achieved is of secondary
         | importance. It is economic institution, because someone
         | calculated that this will be best shot, but if (or when)
         | calculation credibly shifts (for example, that it would be
         | better for them to be a religion, a feudal system, or a
         | federation -- whatever), it will morph into something else.
         | 
         | I'd say that it has 100% fulfilled its primary goal that there
         | is no military conflict between major European states for like
         | 80 years and counting, which is longest period ever recorded
         | and a historical anomaly. The means of how it was executed is
         | obviously a matter of debate, mistakes were made etc., but we
         | over here generally make love, not war.
        
         | concinds wrote:
         | The answer is pretty simple. This decision isn't "the EU".
         | 
         | The European Commission has fewer employees than the Luxembourg
         | government (and keep in mind, they're "running" a continent).
         | 
         | This decision was the Council, i.e. simply the national member
         | governments. Don't let anyone blame "the EU" for this, the
         | national governments are the ones that proposed this, pushed it
         | through EU institutions, and might now try to override the EU
         | parliament about it. Just because national (elected)
         | governments are pushing it through EU institutions doesn't mean
         | you should blame "the EU". It wasn't the "Eurocrats".
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | > a weird political institution, which NATO was already
         | supposed to be?
         | 
         | NATO is a military alliance, not a government.
        
       | emptysongglass wrote:
       | I am ashamed to be Danish. Where are the mass protests of
       | hundreds of thousands, the mass walkouts from our workplaces
       | until our government at last respects our human dignity?
       | 
       | Our government has today turned the EU into a tool for total
       | surveillance I don't know if there can be any return from. Our
       | democratic processes have been abused, and our politicians shown
       | to be nothing but craven, self-interested agents of control.
        
         | sam_lowry_ wrote:
         | What about going out in front of your city hall with a poster
         | saying no-chat-control?
         | 
         | You risk nothing, do you?
        
           | bigbadfeline wrote:
           | > What about going out in front of your city hall with a
           | poster saying no-chat-control?
           | 
           | Unorganized, individual acts cannot change anything in the
           | EU.
           | 
           | > You risk nothing, do you?
           | 
           | Given the legislative maze the EU has become, you can't be
           | sure of that, but you surely gain nothing.
           | 
           | The conditions in Europe are quite specific, and in that
           | environment, pan-EU legislation (except the customs union)
           | should be optional for individual members, anything else can
           | and will be used against the people.
        
       | general1465 wrote:
       | Is there still a loophole for politicians not to be tracked?
       | Because if so, some people will make a lot of money by creating a
       | political party and turning citizens into politicians for yearly
       | fee and thus bypassing this whole law.
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | Elected officials of if I recall correctly. Not just people
         | belonging to a political party.
        
           | general1465 wrote:
           | In big governments or also in councils?
        
         | snet0 wrote:
         | You can read the proposal and found out, if you're interested.
         | 
         | > In the light of the more limited risk of their use for the
         | purpose of child sexual abuse and the need to preserve
         | confidential information, including classified information,
         | information covered by professional secrecy and trade secrets,
         | electronic communications services that are not publicly
         | available, such as those used for national security purposes,
         | should be excluded from the scope of this Regulation.
         | Accordingly, this Regulation should not apply to interpersonal
         | communications services that are not available to the general
         | public and the use of which is instead restricted to persons
         | involved in the activities of a particular company,
         | organisation, body or authority.
        
       | deafpolygon wrote:
       | The wording on all this is incredibly vague. The intentions are
       | pretty clear, but as the saying goes... the road to hell...
        
       | constantcrying wrote:
       | I just want to reiterate that in Germany getting convicted of
       | gang raping a 15 year old (and stealing her phone and purse and
       | filming the rape) is something which gets you _probation_. Yes,
       | the crime was proven, there was no doubt about the guilt.
       | 
       | In this context putting the entirety of the population under the
       | suspicion of facilitating child rape is completely and utterly
       | deranged.
        
       | miohtama wrote:
       | The trick is that because they could not pass the proposal that
       | enforces message scanning, now this proposal defines "high risk
       | activities" and in the case of high risk activity, the national
       | authorities can force someone to comply (i.e. start to scan
       | messages, block, stop activity).
       | 
       | Here is the actual text:
       | https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-15318-2025-...
       | 
       | High risk classification is at the end of the text.
       | 
       | Some highlights of what is defined as high risk, and thus can be
       | forced to go through mandatory scanning or forbidden:
       | 
       | - Encrypted messaging follows closely due to privacy concerns and
       | the potential for misuse. Posting and sharing of multimedia
       | content are also high-risk activities, as they can easily
       | disseminate harmful material.
       | 
       | - The platform lacks functionalities to prevent users from saving
       | harmful content (by making recordings, screenshots etc.) for the
       | purpose of the dissemination thereof (such as for example not
       | allowing recording and screenshotting content shared by minors)
       | 
       | - Possibility to use peer-to-peer downloading (allows direct
       | sharing of content without using centralised servers)
       | 
       | - The platforms' storage functionalities and/or the legal
       | framework of the country of storage do not allow sharing
       | information with law enforcement authorities.
       | 
       | - The platform lacks functionalities to limit the number of
       | downloads per user to reduce the dissemination of harmful
       | content.
       | 
       | - Making design choices such as ensuring that E2EE is opt-in by
       | default, rather than opt-out would require people to choose E2EE
       | should they wish to use it, therefore allowing certain detection
       | technologies to work for communication between users that have
       | not opted in to E2EE
       | 
       | Also, a lot of these points do not sound like they are about the
       | safety of children
       | 
       | - Platforms lack a premoderation system, allowing potentially
       | harmful content to be posted without oversight or moderation
       | 
       | - Frequent use of anonymous accounts
       | 
       | - Frequent Pseudonymous behavior
       | 
       | - Frequent creation of temporary accounts:
       | 
       | - Lack of identity verification tools
       | 
       | Based on the light of the proposal, Hacker News is very dangerous
       | place and need to have its identity verification and CSAM
       | policies fixed, or face the upcoming fines in the EU.
        
       | jauntywundrkind wrote:
       | Given how badly the EU just folded on GDPR, data protection and
       | AI laws (which were good laws generally imo, and tragic to see
       | useful exercise of sovereignty erased), I want to have hope that
       | this might not stand.
       | 
       | But unfortunately I feel like the big tech interests probably
       | somewhat want this happen, are happy to hand the citizenry over
       | to the state. That we won't hear much from them over this all.
       | With some notable Signal sized / Medium Tech exceptions.
       | 
       | It sure does seem like there's a huge legitimacy crisis the EU
       | council is creating around itself by going so far against the
       | will of the people, by intruding so forcibly into literally
       | everyone's life.
        
       | mrtksn wrote:
       | >At the beginning of the month, the Danish Presidency decided to
       | change its approach with a new compromise text that makes the
       | chat scanning voluntary, instead.
       | 
       | Hmm, so this will probably make the life for those who don't scan
       | quite hard and if they experience a high profile scandal getting
       | out of it will not be easy I assume.
       | 
       | I'm not sure what to think of it, not being mandatory and
       | requiring risk assessment sounds like "Fine, whatever don't do it
       | if you don't want to do it but if something bad happens it's on
       | you". May be fair to some extent, i.e. Reddit and Telegram can
       | decide how much they trust their users not to run pedo business
       | and be on the hook for it.
       | 
       | On the other hand, it is a backdoor and if the governments go
       | crazy like they did in some other countries where high level
       | politicians are implicated with actual pedophiles and have a
       | tendency for authoritarianism Europe may end up having checking
       | user chats for "enemies of the state" instead of CSAM materials.
       | Being not mandatory here may mean that you get constant bullying
       | because you must be hiding something.
        
         | tux3 wrote:
         | I assume this is a delay to get a foot in the door. After some
         | time, the scanning will be made no longer voluntary.
         | 
         | One has to take rights away slowly, otherwise the frog jumps
         | before you can boil it.
        
           | foofoo12 wrote:
           | "voluntary" can also be pretty meaningless depending on the
           | context. In the UK, if the police suspects you of
           | shenanigans, they'll politely invite you for an "voluntary
           | interview".
           | 
           | Of course you can decide to not go, it's voluntary, right?
           | Yes, you can. Your choice. And when you reject their kind
           | offer they'll come and arrest you so you can attend the
           | interview.
        
             | perihelions wrote:
             | Telegram didn't go along with "voluntary" stuff, so they
             | arrested the founder on terrorism and CSAM charges. Now he
             | alleges French intelligence offers to intervene in his
             | court case (through deniable intermediaries, naturally), in
             | exchange for doing some "voluntary" moderating.
             | 
             | This is the example they threaten all tech platforms with.
             | This is the implicit "or else" they won't put in writing.
             | 
             | https://www.reuters.com/technology/telegrams-durov-says-
             | fran...
             | 
             | > _" MOSCOW, Sept 28 - Pavel Durov, the billionaire founder
             | of the Telegram messaging app, accused French intelligence
             | on Sunday of having asked him through an intermediary to
             | censor some Moldovan voices in return for help with his
             | court case in France."_
             | 
             | (And I can't help but notice a pattern of censorship
             | tactic:
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5503354 ( _" French
             | homeland intelligence threatens a sysop into deleting a
             | Wikipedia Article (wikimedia.fr)"_ (2013))
        
           | mckirk wrote:
           | While I fully agree with your sentiment, I'd like to take the
           | opportunity to share a favorite fun-fact of mine: the frogs
           | in the not-jumping-out experiment had their brains removed
           | beforehand. Which might make the analogy more apt, actually,
           | considering how much under siege our attention is these days.
        
         | bossyTeacher wrote:
         | I feel like this will just incentivise the creation of
         | privately run federated messaging systems. Powerful people will
         | always be protected, any smart people will run fed messengers
         | for their private stuff and normie tech for normie comms. This
         | power will just turn into another form of control. As always,
         | the only losers will be the average citizens.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46056358
        
         | mseri wrote:
         | Thanks for the link. I had missed the other two submissions.
         | 
         | If any admin is around, they should probably be merged. This is
         | the other one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46055863
        
       | jasonvorhe wrote:
       | Good old salami tactics still work. Same goes for going way over
       | target to then settle for your actual goal.
       | 
       | Good old democracy at work.
        
       | spwa4 wrote:
       | Why follow the EU's press release instead of stating what's
       | happening? The EU parliament voted - many times. They voted
       | AGAINST having this law at all. The EU council is now threatening
       | to fully override parliament, but "gives parliament another
       | chance" to agree, in hopes this makes the member states more
       | likely to cooperate.
       | 
       | More correct would be to state the in power EU governments have
       | decided to use the EU council power to override the will of both
       | the EU parliament and the member states' own parliaments - for
       | now, by threatening parliament with the override.
        
       | wnevets wrote:
       | They're are merely extending the current policy, it was set to
       | expired early next year.
        
       | bgwalter wrote:
       | They could have subpoenaed the _unencrypted_ Gmail accounts of
       | Maxwell, Epstein and Barak like two decades ago. They can _still_
       | subpoena Barak 's Gmail and other accounts, especially after
       | Giuffre's allegations about "a well known prime minister".
       | 
       | I have the feeling this will not happen.
        
         | Xelbair wrote:
         | Oh but those people would be exempt from scanning anyways.
        
           | techjamie wrote:
           | "Don't worry, the scans won't invade your privacy or expose
           | your information."
           | 
           | "Oh, so the politicians' communications are being scanned
           | too, then?"
           | 
           | "Oh, heavens no. That might risk the privacy of our
           | communications."
        
       | squigz wrote:
       | Taking the reasons at face value (for the sake of argument) I
       | guess what I'm confused about is why this would be necessary. I
       | would think there were already laws/regulations/liability
       | reasons/etc requiring companies to make efforts to ensure they're
       | not hosting CP and other such things? Am I wrong?
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | No, you're not wrong. But this framing allows them to paint the
         | parties opposing these measures as being 'pro CP'.
        
       | johanvts wrote:
       | Misleading title, the council approves their mandate for
       | negotiations with parliament. It's still a long way to go before
       | it turns into law and I think it's rather unpopular in
       | parliament.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Ok, we've put that in the title above. Thanks!
        
       | lysace wrote:
       | This is a major win! Basically: It's now (still) voluntary for
       | services to implement scanning for CSAM material.
       | 
       | Source: Swedish national public service news (Sveriges Radio)
       | interviewing Jon Karlung, CEO of _Bahnhof AB_ - a major privacy-
       | centric and politically outspoken ISP in Sweden. Think XS4ALL but
       | in Sweden.
        
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