[HN Gopher] Fran Sans - font inspired by San Francisco light rai...
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       Fran Sans - font inspired by San Francisco light rail displays
        
       Author : ChrisArchitect
       Score  : 1103 points
       Date   : 2025-11-23 18:20 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (emilysneddon.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (emilysneddon.com)
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Start here for more of the actual font:
       | https://emilysneddon.com/fransans
        
         | zygentoma wrote:
         | Both of these pages seem to me like they're designed for
         | mobile-only usage.
         | 
         | I'm sitting here with a 4k screen, browser maximized, and all
         | text is, like, huuuuge!
         | 
         | And the worst part? You can't zoom! Seems kind of user-hostile
         | to me ...
        
           | pabs3 wrote:
           | Disabling CSS helps.
        
       | aoki wrote:
       | > Back at the SFMTA, Armando told me the Breda vehicles are being
       | replaced, and with them their destination displays will be
       | swapped for newer LED dot-matrix units that are more efficient
       | and easier to maintain. By the end of 2025 the signs that
       | inspired Fran Sans will disappear from the city, taking with them
       | a small but distinctive part of the city's voice.
       | 
       | :-(
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | If the dot-matrix is fine enough, you could still render any
         | font properly. Plus you can add emoticons :)
        
         | inferiorhuman wrote:
         | All of the Breda LRVs were retired earlier this month and their
         | replacements use entirely different displays. Can't say I'll be
         | that nostalgic for the signs or trains.
        
       | eichin wrote:
       | FYI no lower case, also "contact the author for licensing". (The
       | article is a neat story of digging into the history of the
       | displays which are about to be going out of service, as well as
       | some practical aspects of the font design - it's just not
       | casually available.)
        
         | lilsneddz wrote:
         | Honestly, I wasn't expecting this font to go anywhere, and then
         | the SF Chronicle reached out, which has been lovely. Anyone who
         | emails me can have a copy, I just haven't made an easy download
         | link. I've thought about it since, but actually it's way nicer
         | to hear from people and hear about what they're making. It is a
         | community-driven project, and this slower form of distribution
         | feels closer to my original intent. :)
        
       | oktwtf wrote:
       | Typography nerds are some of my favourite nerds.
       | 
       | Font specimen pages are so often screaming with design language
       | and intention, they push and prod to evoke and present.
       | 
       | Maybe the secret has something to do with the lack of priority to
       | the actual content; just present the font gosh-darn!
       | 
       | Looks nicely executed within the confines of the inspiration.
       | very cool
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | Andrew Glassner's Notebook: Recreational Computer Graphics is a
         | _really_ neat book (I especially like the tiles that can add
         | numbers). The author 's site is https://glassner.com/computer-
         | graphics/
         | 
         | Chapter 6 in the book (
         | https://archive.org/details/andrewglassnersn0000glas/page/98...
         | ) Signs of Significance starts with 7 segment displays to the
         | 14 segment and 5x7...
         | 
         | He then goes on to the 66 segment Vienna underground font and
         | an 83 segment font he saw in an elevator at a Siggraph
         | conference in Orlando ... and then concludes with his own 55
         | element mosaic.
         | 
         | --
         | 
         | Also, Adam Savage's Tested - https://youtu.be/eKCcqlJnZcA (3
         | days ago) looking at
         | https://www.kellianderson.com/books/alphabetinmotion.html
         | 
         | At 7:00 into the video is C & D pages looking at the modularity
         | of a font.
         | 
         | (the section "U & V" about 3/4 down the page has the modular
         | components for Kombinations-Schrift
         | https://www.moma.org/collection/works/2724 which was also
         | looked at at 22:00 into the video.
        
           | Aloisius wrote:
           | Someone made a JavaScript version of Glassner's 55 segment
           | design along with a dozen others that's fun to play with:
           | 
           | https://aresluna.org/segmented-type/
        
             | shagie wrote:
             | The six segment one... if you get going with it, it's not
             | too difficult to read. There are some odd ones there, but
             | it's surprisingly readable (some are easier than some of
             | the seven segment letterforms).
        
         | larodi wrote:
         | Many of these seem to be on HN if you come to think about it as
         | every post about fonts skyrockets immediately in popularity. Or
         | STEM people are generally inclined to adoration of nice looking
         | glyphs...
        
         | baruchel wrote:
         | > Typography nerds are some of my favourite nerds.
         | 
         | A very detailed summary for another font (by the creator of the
         | font), including ancient materials as well: https://mass-
         | driver.com/article/md-nichrome-on-spacing-and-s...
        
       | Doctor_Fegg wrote:
       | For UK readers, this is eerily similar to the typeface originally
       | used on the "Thames Turbo" trains (class 165/166) from their
       | construction in the 1990s until a refurb about five years ago - I
       | could believe it was the same manufacturer. Some photos:
       | 
       | https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:166207_DMCO_Interior...
       | 
       | https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Rail_Cla...
        
         | croisillon wrote:
         | i believe that 3x5 display is quite common and might not have
         | its origin in SF
        
           | JackFr wrote:
           | It seems identical to the displays used in NJ Transit trains.
        
             | Aloisius wrote:
             | NJ Transit uses 105-segment displays. Not only do they
             | include lowercase letters, but the uppercase and numbers
             | are noticeably different from MUNI's 38-segment displays.
        
               | croisillon wrote:
               | ha :) https://www.reddit.com/r/typography/comments/1jp9ju
               | j/i_turne...
               | 
               | and from that discussion: https://aresluna.org/segmented-
               | type/
               | 
               | in Vienna we have a 66 segment:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vienna_u-
               | bahn_display_clo...
        
       | Johnny555 wrote:
       | >On route, train operators punch the code into a control panel at
       | the back of the display, and the LCD blocks light on specific
       | segments of the grid to build each letter
       | 
       | I always thought those were mechanical displays with little
       | mechanical shutters that moved to display the segments... like
       | these:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/Gj_mTp6Ypzk
       | 
       | Never knew they were LCD.
        
       | becomevocal wrote:
       | Have been in font picking mode recently so this was a relevant
       | enough distraction. Excellent read!
        
       | arkensaw wrote:
       | Be honest though, did the name come first?
        
         | lilsneddz wrote:
         | Haha, hi, it's me, Emily, the designer of this font. It
         | actually didn't come first! And strangely finding an available
         | name was almost the hardest part.
        
       | adastra22 wrote:
       | As a native that absolutely cringes at "San Fran" ... I still got
       | mad respect for that awesome name. Well done.
        
         | jabberwhookie wrote:
         | I've always found that cringe to be a strange shibboleth.
         | AFAICT everyone has to summarize with the bay area instead,
         | which I find even more comic having grown up on a coast, aka a
         | bay area.
        
           | adastra22 wrote:
           | The bay area is more than SF. If you mean San Francisco and
           | don't want to say the whole name, you use either 'SF' or 'the
           | city.'
           | 
           | I'm not sure why it's a strange shibboleth? Not every name
           | has to be shortened, and if you are going to shorten names,
           | not every short form is acceptable. I don't know where "San
           | Fran" came from, any more than "Cali", neither of which are
           | used by locals, but it just doesn't feel respectable. It's
           | not the name of the city.
        
             | gerdesj wrote:
             | "SF ... It's not the name of the city."
             | 
             | Your words ... 8)
        
               | clhodapp wrote:
               | I think it honesty just boils down to: It sounds bad.
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | You've never met an Alexander that despises being called
               | "Alex"?
        
               | mkoubaa wrote:
               | No but they all seem upset when I call them Alexa
        
               | gerdesj wrote:
               | No. Why would you "despise" being referred to?
               | 
               | My first name is Jonathan, I generally get referred to as
               | (int al) Jon, Jonny, Jo, or John (bloody silent letters).
               | 
               | As it turns out, until I was 20 I thought my name was
               | spelt Jonathon. I got a copy of my birth cert to get a
               | student loan and discovered the "truth" - even my
               | passport was wrong and my parents had to sort out the
               | first few of those and they should have known better! I
               | was born in 1970 and no one noticed that I misspelt my
               | own first name for 20 years.
        
             | gghffguhvc wrote:
             | When I lived in SF I walked past this street art a couple
             | of times a week and got a smile.
             | 
             | https://www.sfstairways.com/stairways/eugenia-avenue-
             | prospec...
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | Ha, that's great!
        
           | chaboud wrote:
           | Well, this is THE Bay Area, where we live in THE city, drive
           | on THE 101, and eat in THE Chinatown.... wait...
           | 
           | Funny enough, though, it wasn't until I moved here 15+ years
           | ago that it struck me how odd it is to call it "the Bay Area"
           | and expect people to know what that means. Nonetheless,
           | sportscasters do it. Musicians do it. All other bay areas are
           | just areas around bays...
        
             | ucarion wrote:
             | Eddie Izzard was joking in 1998 about the "The" and the
             | prohibited names for The City
             | (https://youtu.be/QRB_GhLXCds?si=R4kYkodzvYDxe33H&t=276),
             | so it's probably been like this for many decades thence!
        
             | slater wrote:
             | > drive on THE 101
             | 
             |  _excuuuuuuse_ you? It 's "drive on 101" in NorCal :P
        
               | ternaryoperator wrote:
               | in fact, use of the article before the highway number is
               | a giveaway that the person is from elsewhere.
        
             | stevage wrote:
             | like "the tristate"
        
             | jes5199 wrote:
             | ride the BART
        
           | nvader wrote:
           | My theory for why "San Fran" is looked down upon is that the
           | person saying it is perceived as making a claim to status: 'I
           | am so cool and hip that I am on familiar terms with "San
           | Fran".'
           | 
           | But shortening San Francisco to San Fran is both very
           | obvious, and betrays a cheap attempt at sophistication that
           | the soul of SF rejects.
           | 
           | SF feels like a transitory city as multiple successive waves
           | of people drift in and out. That also contribute to why a
           | shibboleth like this gets a lot of airtime. The episode
           | probably recurs weekly in bars all over the city as someone
           | who's just moved here calls it "San Fran", only to be
           | corrected by someone who's been here for just a little
           | longer.
        
         | decimalenough wrote:
         | I'll be sure to call it "Frisco" instead.
         | 
         | +1 on the awesome name though.
        
           | bonoboTP wrote:
           | Sans Francisco
        
             | simondotau wrote:
             | A silent router: Sans Fancisco
        
           | zjp wrote:
           | That's fine, it's what people from the east and south sides
           | call it.
        
         | lilsneddz wrote:
         | Hey, I made this font. I really ummed and ahhed over the name
         | for this exact same reason. But in the end it was just too
         | clever to pass up. Thanks for moving past it, haha.
        
           | drob518 wrote:
           | Bonus points for cleverness.
        
           | hamburglar wrote:
           | I also approve of the cleverness. Correct choice not to pass
           | it up.
           | 
           | I also have a soft spot for typography weenies, and
           | appreciation for well thought out typography in an age when
           | it seems like it's becoming rarer and rarer. Great to see
           | this on HN.
        
           | neonmagenta wrote:
           | what you chose was 100% wayy too good to pass up, that
           | wouldve been the first thing pun-lovers pointed out if you
           | chose anything else. because ITS RIGHT THERE
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | It's funny how most SF posts will have an "as a native" say
         | that. You don't really get that from London as much. Strangely
         | parochial attribute of the culture. I wonder which other cities
         | have such populations. NYC has a big "transplant" vs. "native"
         | thing going on so maybe it's just American, but I think people
         | do it in Vancouver too. Though Canadians just kind of copy
         | Americans for the most part.
         | 
         | I've taken to calling the city San Fran as a result. Sometimes
         | I enjoy a good EssEffOh or Frisco too. Really gets the audience
         | going.
        
           | adastra22 wrote:
           | NYC is the only other one I can think of, though I'm sure
           | there are many. Maybe LA as well? It's just that the
           | transplants outnumber the natives by a large amount. The
           | house I live in now was fruit orchards when I was born.
        
           | jeffreygoesto wrote:
           | London England or London Ontario?
        
             | andrewshadura wrote:
             | You mean Real London and Fake London?
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | As a native, we natives know which one.
        
         | RyJones wrote:
         | It's been a while since I grabbed this:
         | https://blog.ryjones.org/2006/10/21/Welcome-to-the-Bay-Area
        
       | roughly wrote:
       | That was a great read with a ton of fun little bread crumbs to
       | follow. Tipo Velez/Super Veloz gets a mention, and it's
       | definitely worthy of a diversion if you haven't seen it before.
       | 
       | For all the modern handwringing about SF, it really is a hell of
       | a city with a fascinating history.
        
       | gorgoiler wrote:
       | I like the underlying commitment to design in the original
       | displays. Seemingly the double height slants on the bottom are
       | _solely_ for rendering the letter V. They have no other purpose
       | than for that letter.
        
         | lilsneddz wrote:
         | I'm the designer of Fran Sans and I love that you noticed this
         | detail in the original displays!!! :)
        
       | agg23 wrote:
       | Beware that pressing the back arrow twice takes you to unexpected
       | naked photos.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | This is the second comment I've seen on HN today about the back
         | button having unexpected results on a site.
         | 
         | I'm so confused -- I use Chrome on a Mac and my back button
         | works entirely normally. No naked photos, sorry to report.
         | 
         | Is this a real thing that Chrome isn't susceptible to? Or are
         | people just making jokes?
        
           | anamexis wrote:
           | They mean the left arrow key on your keyboard.
        
           | decimalenough wrote:
           | Here you go: https://emilysneddon.com/tinn
           | 
           | NSFW, obviously, but also not all _that_ titillating. (It 's
           | artsy B&W photography of women in their bathrooms.)
        
           | adastra22 wrote:
           | Use the arrow key. It moves the carousel, landing on some
           | scandalizing artistic photos.
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | Not much scandalising in that IMO. Very arty photos. Would
             | anyone find this offensive?
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | I don't think any reasonable person would, but there are
               | contexts in which unexpected partial nudity might be
               | troublesome. If one's a librarian or teacher browsing the
               | web from a very public desk where people can see my
               | screen, I'd appreciate the warning.
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | Ah good point!
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | Oh, thank you. I've never heard of the left arrow key being
             | called the back arrow.
        
         | seniortaco wrote:
         | Are they naked photos you've seen before?
        
       | myself248 wrote:
       | I wonder what's happening to the displays that're being retired!
       | I hope someone can nab them from the waste stream...
        
         | lilsneddz wrote:
         | Hi, I'm Emily the designer of Fran Sans. One of the Breda cars
         | is going to the California State Railroad Museum, and it has
         | the displays in it. I also suggested to the Letterform Archive
         | in SF that they may have interest in it. I do know they've
         | archived some of the NY subway curtain displays, so I think
         | it's only fair they save one of these in their collections too.
        
           | myself248 wrote:
           | That's one, but what about all the rest? If someone at the
           | service garage has any sense, they'll make sure the displays
           | end up on eBay, not a crusher. I can see a bunch of nerds
           | turning them into all sorts of wonderful things.
        
             | lilsneddz wrote:
             | Yep, not sure, but I agree. I didn't get to speak to the
             | people in charge of these decisions, but would also love to
             | know where they're going. I wouldn't be surprised if they
             | do end up on ebay.
        
       | meta-level wrote:
       | I like it because my first name is Frans
        
       | msarnoff wrote:
       | I have seen these throughout the US and Europe and been
       | fascinated by them. Penn Station has (had? been a while) a big
       | one with more segments per character. I've been trying forever to
       | find the name of this particular style of segmented displays and
       | get more info on them. The closest I could find is "mosaic
       | display."
       | 
       | Love this article!
       | 
       | Signed, someone who has an obsession with segmented displays
        
         | sho_hn wrote:
         | It's probably Reitberger's 38-segment AFA alphanumeric LCD:
         | 
         | https://www.reitberger.de/English/Large%20displays/Alphanume...
         | 
         | https://www.reitberger.de/English/Broadsheet/Prospekt_GA_AFA...
         | 
         | These are very common here.
        
           | Aloisius wrote:
           | The Penn Station passenger display was, according to the NYT,
           | segmented LCD glass made by Signature Technologies in
           | Arizona.
           | 
           | It had 43 segments (each character had a 13 segment column,
           | 17 segments column, then another 13 segment column that was a
           | mirror of the first). You can see the segment shape on the
           | original sign:
           | 
           | https://media.wired.com/photos/59327db4aef9a462de983397/3:2/.
           | ..
           | 
           | The same segment design was used on in Spain along with a
           | more angular version:
           | 
           | https://web.archive.org/web/20210602143217im_/https://pbs.tw.
           | ..
        
         | badlibrarian wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-flap_display
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-disc_display
        
           | msarnoff wrote:
           | When I was last at Penn Station in the 2010s their departure
           | board was a mosaic LCD like the article, not a split-flap
           | display:
           | 
           | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Penn_Sta.
           | ..
           | 
           | I do miss the split flap displays at the Boston and
           | Providence Amtrak stations though...
        
       | Beijinger wrote:
       | For commercial and non-commercial use of FRAN SANS, please get in
       | touch: emily@......com
        
       | seniortaco wrote:
       | For some reason when I read this font in the digital samples, it
       | feels a bit Soviet? I subconsciously expect the text to be in
       | cyrillic.
        
       | lynndotpy wrote:
       | This is the spitting image of the "FontStruct" tool, which I have
       | fond memories of! I wonder if there was some overlap.
       | 
       | I second the sentiments here about typography nerds. This is very
       | very cool.
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | So ... hard to read then?
        
       | flypunk wrote:
       | This post ends with a beautiful poem set in Frans Sans
       | 
       | OUTSIDE MY LIFE, INSIDE THE DREAM.
       | 
       | FALLING UP THE STAIRS, INTO THE STREET.
       | 
       | LET THE CABLE CAR CARRY ME.
       | 
       | STRAIGHT OUT OF TOWN, INTO THE SEA.
       | 
       | PAST THE DAHLIAS AND THE SELF-DRIVING CARS.
       | 
       | THE CHURCH OF 8 WHEELS. THE LOWER HAIGHT BARS.
       | 
       | THE PEAK HOUR SPRAWL. THE KIDS IN THE PARK.
       | 
       | THE SLANTING HOUSES. THE BAY AFTER DARK.
       | 
       | MY WINDOW, MY OWN SILVER SCREEN.
       | 
       | I FOLLOW WHERE THE FOG TAKES ME.
       | 
       | By MADDY CARRUCAN
        
         | namanyayg wrote:
         | I moved to SF this year and I love this poem.
         | 
         | Q: is the church of 8 wheels really a popular destination? Or
         | is this the poet's bias towards the haight and hayes areas?
         | 
         | For me, Mission Dolores represents "classic SF" and is the area
         | I'm fondest of -- and contrarily, the Salesforce Park and the
         | surrounding area is the pinnacle of tech & capitalism (and b2b
         | saas.)
        
       | kens wrote:
       | I appreciate that the author talked to various people
       | (technician, engineer) and visited the shop rather than just
       | doing online research. It's rare for people to go to the effort
       | of in-person research.
        
       | int0x29 wrote:
       | When I was a child the front side displays on new Muni buses used
       | to use these probably solonoid driven LED arrays. If you sat
       | under one you could here this clattering sound that sounded kinda
       | like rain each time the display changed. This discussion is
       | bringing back old memories of those.
       | 
       | The older Breda trains and I think buses also used to use backlit
       | paper rolls for signs:
       | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/T_Third_...
       | Those were significantly more readable
        
         | lilsneddz wrote:
         | They certainly did. The SFMTA also showed these to me and
         | explained that not only were they extremely temperamental, but
         | it also cost about $3k to print one of the curtains with the
         | special barcode that prompts the curtains to rotate.
        
         | inferiorhuman wrote:
         | Assuming you mean one of these guys:
         | 
         | https://cptdb.ca/wiki/images/6/60/San_Francisco_MUNI_8001-a....
         | 
         | https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/File:San_Francisco_MUNI_8110...
         | 
         | The signs made quite a racket, but so did the buses (well, the
         | first model I linked to).
         | 
         | Fun fact: When Muni first rolled out the digital signs on their
         | newer Bredas the set the signs to rotate through three
         | different pieces of information. So for 2/3 of the time you had
         | no indication of where the train was headed.
         | 
         | Bonus fun fact: the cloth rolls have a variety of routes and
         | destinations that never came to be.
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | When I was a kid, DART (a not-quite-metro rapid transit thing
           | in Dublin) trains had printed maps with LEDs for each
           | station; they were green until the train passed them, then
           | turned red. This seemed like absolute magic to me at the
           | time.
           | 
           | When a branch line was added, these displays were updated,
           | though they weren't put in the newer rolling stock. Then
           | another station was opened on the existing line, and they
           | just switched them off. They're still present on some trains,
           | but haven't done anything in 15 years. They'll finally
           | presumably go away in the next year or so, as the '80s
           | rolling stock they're found in is due to be retired. I'll
           | kind of miss them.
        
       | some_guy_nobel wrote:
       | > For commercial and non-commercial use of FRAN SANS, please get
       | in touch: emily@emilysneddon.com
       | 
       | Cool article, pretty lame that the person creating a recreation
       | of a public-funded font is gatekeeping it behind their email,
       | though.
        
         | lilsneddz wrote:
         | Ouch, that was certainly not my intention. I didn't expect this
         | to be shared around, and hadn't considered the best way to make
         | it available. It's open, and I've shared it for free with every
         | single person who has emailed me. I feel like this slower form
         | of distribution is closer to the original intent of the font as
         | I've been able to connect and chat with lots of incredible SF
         | locals and Muni fans in the process. :)
         | 
         | I made Fran Sans for fun in my own spare time which was a lot
         | of work. I do want to add that all fonts are inspired by work
         | that came before it... yet at some point, the font becomes your
         | own. Yes, Fran Sans is based on the Trans-Lite signage, however
         | when I digitised it, I had to make a number of my own personal
         | design decisions along the way which makes this work my own.
         | Particularly the addition of different styles and characters
         | that were never made for the original signage.
         | 
         | I hoped my intent came through in my commitment to researching
         | and sharing this piece of local history that would have
         | otherwise been lost as there was nothing to be found online
         | when I started this journey.
         | 
         | Hope this clears up my intention, I'd love to send you a copy
         | if you're interested, and I'm open to hearing your distribution
         | ideas.
        
           | hamburglar wrote:
           | You just gotta get used to a knee jerk "you're open sourcing
           | wrong" reaction you're gonna get from a community of people
           | who are accustomed to it all being done in a certain way
           | (namely, that it's generally open and copyable without
           | interaction with -gasp- humans). You're doing fine and your
           | responses have been perfect imo.
        
           | dirtybirdnj wrote:
           | I agree with the hamburglar (lol) you did awesome work and
           | you owe the internet nothing. the 3d printing community is
           | rife with "stl please" expectations that everyone wants to
           | share everything and it should all be free. Give it away if
           | you can, but I think its important to have some value to the
           | creative work like this that is done.
           | 
           | > I've shared it for free with every single person who has
           | emailed me.
           | 
           | Excited and waiting :) I think it's going to make really cool
           | pen plotter art
        
       | nrhrjrjrjtntbt wrote:
       | I am not expert but I really like the font. It does a lot for
       | such a primitive display. Makes me wonder why we used to have
       | those bad 80s 90s alphanumeric LCD displays in most places too
       | cheap for pixels when they could have done this.
        
       | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
       | There are higher detail versions of these LCD displays like those
       | used on the NJ Transit Comet cars:
       | https://www.flickr.com/photos/recluse26/286211358/
       | 
       | Should be possible to get a passable @ on those.
        
         | windows2020 wrote:
         | That was my first thought as well. I've spent time on those
         | cars on the Coast Line. They used to indicate the next stop,
         | but it broke at some point. I don't ride much anymore. I'm not
         | surprised what's pictured is NJ TRANSIT, the fallback. Would be
         | nice to have faster trains someday. Until then, crack a beer
         | and enjoy the ride.
        
       | Kylejeong21 wrote:
       | i was literally just looking for some kind of font for my
       | personal site and this is super cool.
        
       | yawnxyz wrote:
       | I would love to build a programmatic version of this font defined
       | by an array of shapes (full square, triangle, rounded corner,
       | pizza, and notch), and rotations, but I think even that would be
       | a somewhat offense of the license, so I'm not going to publish
       | it.
       | 
       | An array of those would spell out most of the symbols. Some of
       | her characters violate this pattern though so it only
       | approximates most of the symbols.
       | 
       | If lilsneddz responds with yes, I'd love to publish the code so
       | people can make public interactive displays with her font design.
       | 
       | I think a system like this would make it easier to prototype
       | lowercase and other international symbols though!
        
         | lilsneddz wrote:
         | Are you joking? this sounds sick. Please go ahead!!! I think I
         | need to update my website so it's more clear how open this is,
         | haha!
        
           | yawnxyz wrote:
           | wait really?? ok!! I thought I would actually build a
           | typography editor around it, maybe if you click a cell it
           | would rotate symbols and/or orientations. Open source of
           | course!
           | 
           | This is what I'll do instead of spending time with family
           | over thanksgiving :P
        
             | california-og wrote:
             | check out https://fontstruct.com/ and
             | https://glyphdrawing.club/ for a few editors that work this
             | way (i made glyphdrawing.club). but please make one for
             | this!
        
               | yawnxyz wrote:
               | wow thank you for sharing!! I'm new to all this but I'm
               | clearly finding a new hobby
        
             | hamburglar wrote:
             | "I really like fun. So I made my own font editor." --- tom7
             | 
             | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qTBAW-Eh0tM
        
               | yawnxyz wrote:
               | learned a ton there
        
       | bcoates wrote:
       | "Unlike New York, Chicago or L.A., which each have one, maybe
       | two, San Francisco and the greater Bay Area have over two dozen"
       | 
       | Whaaa...? Los Angeles has a whole rat's nest of overlapping
       | agencies, (mostly different cities and like 4 kinds of train for
       | some reason)
        
       | kingkongjaffa wrote:
       | This reminded me of https://aresluna.org/the-hardest-working-
       | font-in-manhattan/
       | 
       | prev hn discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43053419
        
       | jdnier wrote:
       | I had not heard of Glyphs, the tool the author used. I used to
       | use Fontographer long ago.
       | 
       | https://glyphsapp.com/learn/recommendation:get-started
       | 
       | It's a great article!
        
         | antidamage wrote:
         | Also a Fontographer user here. That's how you know you did font
         | design in the last 90s.
        
       | waiwai933 wrote:
       | I'm struggling with deciphering the punctuation symbol between
       | the PS and the |. Any help? (Possibly the @ symbol but my reading
       | of the text suggests there isn't a glyph for it, but maybe I'm
       | wrong there)
        
         | tylervigen wrote:
         | I think it is @ given the context of the next paragraph, where
         | they complain that @ doesn't work well in the grid.
        
       | antidamage wrote:
       | I would invite everyone to try selecting text on the linked page
       | to see the most low-key awesome effect ever.
        
       | cmdoptesc wrote:
       | Wow, the props to the author for digging _deep_!
       | 
       | > Looking inside of the display, I found labels identifying the
       | make and model. The signs were designed and manufactured by
       | Trans-Lite, Inc., a company based in Milford, Connecticut that
       | specialised in transport signage from 1959 until its acquisition
       | by the Nordic firm Teknoware in 2012. After lots of amateur
       | detective work, and with the help from an anonymous Reddit user
       | in a Connecticut community group, I was connected with Gary
       | Wallberg, Senior Engineer at Trans-Lite and the person
       | responsible for the design of these very signs back in 1999.
       | 
       | Few years back, we had a work thread about this exact Muni Metro
       | font and the designers brought up segmented types. We never got
       | as far as the author in finding the source, but did bring up
       | other systems with similar typefaces.
       | 
       | NYC has their own called R142A:
       | https://www.nyctransitforums.com/topic/55346-r142a-mosaic-lc...
       | 
       | And here's one inspired by Spain's transit system:
       | https://aresluna.org/segmented-type/
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | R142A is simply the name of a type of subway car. The NYCT
         | identifies the car by contract number which is increasing
         | (bigger number means more recent). The latest is R211 in three
         | variants (R211T, R211S, R211A).
        
           | cmdoptesc wrote:
           | Thanks for the correction!
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | Interesting! Since Ansaldo Breda is an Italian company, I would
         | have thought that the signs were European as well. Similar LCD
         | "mosaic" displays were pretty widespread over here until a few
         | years ago (e.g. in some platform signs on the Munich U-Bahn:
         | https://www.u-bahn-muenchen.de/betrieb/zugzielanzeiger/, scroll
         | to "LCD-Digitalanzeiger'), but they have all been replaced with
         | standard TFT flat screens (or in the case of line displays on
         | vehicles, LED based dot matrix displays) since...
        
           | inferiorhuman wrote:
           | Yeah I'm surprised too - Breda spent a metric fuckton of
           | money bribing Willie Brown so that the city would buy those
           | damn things. Lots of European kit on them (like the
           | Scharfenberg couplers), most of it never worked right.
        
         | runroader wrote:
         | The segmented type site that lets you see a bunch of different
         | options reminded me of Posy's YouTube video where he
         | investigates a bunch of weird options for these:
         | https://youtu.be/RTB5XhjbgZA?si=y7npP6KfXlOGNoHZ
        
         | 98codes wrote:
         | New Jersey Transit trains use something similar to this, but
         | with many more segments
         | 
         | https://www.flickr.com/photos/recluse26/286211358/
        
       | pclark wrote:
       | Are the light rail displays ever sold anywhere?
        
       | 1121redblackgo wrote:
       | Thoroughly dank. Very well done and interesting write up.
        
       | everdev wrote:
       | This is difital archiving and will be absorbed by AI and seen by
       | aliens in another galaxy thousands of years from now in a borg
       | cube.
        
       | kelnos wrote:
       | Ah that's so neat! I've noticed some of those details before, in
       | how some of the segments of the display are shaped in various
       | ways that lets them draw characters with smooth edges, in ways
       | you wouldn't be able to do with a display where the segments'
       | shapes are homogeneous.
       | 
       | As soon as I saw the first photo, though, I was a little sad to
       | realize that it was of the old-style trains that are being phased
       | out. The author notes this near the end, but I think that the
       | trains are actually completely phased out as of a few weeks ago,
       | maybe even before this article was posted.
        
         | lilsneddz wrote:
         | They were officially phased out on the 12th of November, with
         | their final trips being on the J line.
        
       | pietroppeter wrote:
       | Great work! As a side track, it led me to dive into the history
       | of the manufacturing company of Breda trains. Originally founded
       | in Milan late 1800s by Ernesto Breda for locomotives, expanded in
       | the war products during the wars, and went through
       | nationalization, fusion to become AnsaldoBreda and later bough by
       | Japanese to become Hitachi Rail Italy.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitachi_Rail_Italy
        
         | inferiorhuman wrote:
         | Later to get banned from bidding on the contract for the
         | replacement vehicles because the trains were so mediocre
         | (although somehow still better than the earlier Boeings) and
         | the company so brazenly corrupt.
         | 
         | Meanwhile SF runs 1800s-early 1900s era Milan trams on their
         | heritage line. Not built by Breda, because of course.
        
       | thenoblesunfish wrote:
       | Fun! Would love a "style 4" where you see the thin lines e.g.
       | within the solid squares.
        
       | socalgal2 wrote:
       | Since the article compares the SF "and the Bay Area" to LA, they
       | might be surprised to find that the greater LA area has 70+
       | public transit organizations. Just to name a few, LA County
       | Transit Authority, Big Blue Bus, Long Beach Transit, Torrence
       | Transit, LADOT, OCTA, ...
        
       | shahzaibmushtaq wrote:
       | > Life is so rich when ease and efficiency are not the measure.
       | 
       | This is it, and I really like the CSS effects when
       | highlighting/selecting words, sentences and paragraphs
        
       | stevage wrote:
       | It would be interesting to see a version with the grid line gaps
       | included.
        
       | moydinjon wrote:
       | Hi
        
       | midito wrote:
       | Wow! Impressive process, outstanding result. Kudos
        
       | rldjbpin wrote:
       | Also check out Helvetica and its use in subways of the world -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2372894
        
       | knorker wrote:
       | Why is the font size on this page ENORMOUS and blocking the
       | ability to make it reasonable? Seems more than a bit user
       | hostile.
       | 
       | I guess I could try finding some reader mode extension, but the
       | effort/reward promise is not high enough to bother.
        
       | monday_ wrote:
       | I really liked the Hotspur font shown here, but can't find it for
       | either download or sale anywhere. Perhaps someone knows if it is
       | at all available?
        
         | lilsneddz wrote:
         | Hotspur is a custom font for Bell Shakespeare's brand and isn't
         | commercially available.
        
       | aemoron wrote:
       | Reminds me of the old Finnish metro station display reverse
       | engineering http://sooda.dy.fi/2013/8/19/metro-station-display-
       | reverse-e...
        
       | danilo_z_j wrote:
       | Very cool!
        
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       (page generated 2025-11-24 23:01 UTC)