[HN Gopher] Calculus for Mathematicians, Computer Scientists, an...
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       Calculus for Mathematicians, Computer Scientists, and Physicists
       [pdf]
        
       Author : o4c
       Score  : 184 points
       Date   : 2025-11-23 16:31 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mathcs.holycross.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mathcs.holycross.edu)
        
       | qntty wrote:
       | Writing a calculus book that's more rigorous than typical books
       | is hard because if you go too hard, people will say that you've
       | written a real analysis book and the point of calculus is to
       | introduce certain concepts without going full analysis. This book
       | seems to have at least avoided the trap of trying to be too
       | rigorous about the concept of convergence and spending more time
       | on introducing vocabulary to talk about functions and talking
       | about intersections with linear algebra.
        
         | JJMcJ wrote:
         | Anyway you've already got Apostol - if it's just calculus as
         | such get an older edition. Modern ones have extra goodies like
         | linear algebra but have modern text book pricing (cries softly
         | in $150/volume).
        
           | tzs wrote:
           | Getting an old enough edition of Apostol's "Calculus" to not
           | include linear algebra might be a bit challenging. Linear
           | algebra was added to both volumes in their second editions,
           | which came out in 1967 for volume 1 and 1969 for volume 2.
           | 
           | The second editions are still the current edition, so no
           | worry that you might be missing out on something if you go
           | with used copies. If you do want new copies (maybe you can't
           | find used copies or they are in bad shape) take a look at
           | international editions.
           | 
           | A new copy of the international edition for India from a
           | seller in India on AbeBooks is around $15 per volume plus
           | around $19 shipping to the US. Same contents as the US
           | edition but paperback instead of hardback, smaller pages, and
           | rougher paper. (International editions also often replace
           | color with grayscale but that's not relevant in this case
           | because Apostol does not use color)).
           | 
           | You can also find US sellers on AbeBooks that has imported an
           | international edition. That will be around $34 but usually
           | with free shipping.
        
             | JJMcJ wrote:
             | Thanks for the info on cheaper editions, not important to
             | me but to others in USA it might be a big help.
        
           | throwaway81523 wrote:
           | Spivak's book is still good too.
        
       | CamperBob2 wrote:
       | That's a pretty diverse audience. Is this .pdf supposed to be a
       | one-size-fits-all effort?
        
         | analog31 wrote:
         | I'm probably dating myself, but at my college, there was one
         | calculus course for everybody. But also, a lot of the students
         | in those areas had overlapping or double majors. For instance I
         | majored in math and physics.
         | 
         | Perhaps the bigger question is whether it's at the right level
         | of difficulty for the audience.
        
           | anikom15 wrote:
           | I think there are usually two: Calculus for scientists and
           | engineers which is analytical and has lots of symbols, and
           | Calculus for everyone else which is more practical.
           | 
           | Math majors might have their own. I also know they end up
           | taking complex Calculus.
        
             | analog31 wrote:
             | Thinking about it, ours was a small college -- 2500
             | students. So there may have been a practical reason for
             | everybody taking the same math courses. They were taught
             | more as "service" courses for the sciences and engineering
             | than as theoretical math courses. And the students who
             | didn't need calculus typically satisfied their math
             | requirement with a statistics course.
             | 
             | Complex analysis and real analysis were among the higher-
             | level courses, attended mostly by math majors, with the
             | proviso that there were a lot of double majors. That was
             | where it got interesting.
             | 
             | The requirements for the physics major were only a handful
             | of math credits shy of the math major.
        
             | beezle wrote:
             | Usually engineering/math calc and then a much less rigorous
             | business/arts&crafts calc for the rest.
        
       | garyfirestorm wrote:
       | Is there a hard copy to purchase? I can't seem to find it
       | anywhere.
        
       | kalx wrote:
       | How much math skills do you need to appreciate this book?
        
         | analog31 wrote:
         | My first impression, paging through it, is that it's at a
         | somewhat higher level than the typical college calculus course.
        
         | nightshift1 wrote:
         | the Postscript at the end says:
         | 
         |  _While not every student is expected to read the book sequen-
         | tially cover to cover, it is important to have the details in
         | one place. Calculus is not a subject that can be learned in one
         | pass. Indeed, this book nearly assumes readers have already had
         | a year of calculus, as had the students of MAT 157Y. I hope
         | this book will grow with its readers, remaining both readable
         | and informative over multiple traversals, and that it provides
         | a useful bridge between current calculus texts and more
         | advanced real analysis texts._
        
       | zkmon wrote:
       | >> the author's wish to present ... mathematics, as intuitively
       | and informally as possible, without compromising logical rigor
       | 
       | The books in the West in general kept getting less rigorous, with
       | time. I don't see Asian or Russian books doing this. The audience
       | getting less receptive to rigor and wishing for more visuals and
       | informal talk. When they get to higher studies and research,
       | would they be able to cope with steep curve of more formalism and
       | rigor?
        
         | mjburgess wrote:
         | Nope, but mathematics research is one of the most rarefied
         | fields being extremely difficlt to get into, hard to get money,
         | etc. -- (this is my understanding, at least). Progress is made
         | here by people who, aged 10 are already showing signs of
         | capability.
         | 
         | There's not much need for a large amount of PhD places, and
         | funding, for pure mathematics research.
         | 
         | Likewise, on the applied side, "calculus" now as a pure thing
         | has been dead alone time. Gradients are computed with
         | algorithms and numerical approximations, that are better taught
         | -- with the formal stuff maintained via intuition.
         | 
         | I'm much more open to the idea that the west has this wrong,
         | and we should be more focused on developing the applied side
         | after spending the last century overly focused on the pure
        
         | kardianos wrote:
         | I agree with this. But I don't see the students rejecting this,
         | but the education degreed peoples who choose texts and the
         | publishers want to make all learning for all people. This is
         | foolish. Most people don't need to know calculus. And if you do
         | learn it, do so with rigor so you actually learn it and not
         | just the appearance of it, which is much much worse.
        
           | DrSAR wrote:
           | Not sure I agree with 'appearance [...] is much worse'.
           | 
           | Given the choice between a class room of first years who
           | believe (in themselves and) an appearance of calculus
           | knowledge or a room of scared undergrads that recoil from any
           | calculus-inspired argument they 'have never learnt it
           | properly', I'll take the former. I can work with that much
           | more easily. Sure, some things might break - but what's the
           | worst that can happen?
           | 
           | We'll sort out the rigour later while we patch the bruises of
           | overextending some analogies.
        
         | elcapitan wrote:
         | This may be a stupid question, but what do people usually mean
         | when they refer to a mathematical text as being "rigorous"?
         | Does it mean that everything is strictly proof-based rather
         | than application-oriented?
        
           | actinium226 wrote:
           | Generally that's what it means. And also when proofs are
           | presented, a rigorous book will go through it fully, whereas
           | a less rigorous one might just sketch out the main ideas of
           | the proof and leave out some of the nitty gritty details
           | (i.e. it's less rigorous to talk about "continuity" as "you
           | can draw it without lifting the pen" as compared to the
           | epsilon-delta definition, but epsilon-delta is pretty
           | detailed and for intro calculus for non-mathematicians you
           | don't really need it).
        
             | mike50 wrote:
             | This is the reason that everyone at my university said to
             | just take the Applied version of Calculus 1 and 2 t avoid
             | the proofs.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Not necessarily proof-heavy, but at least with formally
           | rigorous definitions and theorems.
        
           | zorked wrote:
           | Rigorous = a pain in the ass to learn from, but you gain
           | imaginary points for the pain.
        
         | nabla9 wrote:
         | > Russian books doing this.
         | 
         |  _Mathematics: Its Content, Methods and Meaning_ by A.D.
         | Aleksandrov, A.N. Kolomogorov, M.A. Lavrent'ev,..
         | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/405880.Mathematics
         | 
         | It's still a masterpiece. Originally published in 1962 in 3
         | volumes. The English translation has all in one.
        
           | wirrbel wrote:
           | is that like a Landau Lifshitz for Math?
        
             | nextos wrote:
             | No, it's just a gentle overview.
        
         | actinium226 wrote:
         | > The books in the West in general kept getting less rigorous,
         | with time.
         | 
         | I wonder if it's because more people are going to college who
         | would have otherwise gone to a vocational or trade school? If
         | the audience expands to include people who might not have
         | studied calculus had they not chosen to go to college, I feel
         | like textbooks have to change to accommodate that.
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | If you care about getting all the nitty gritty details of a
         | "rigorous" proof, maybe the quicker approach is to install Lean
         | on your computer and step through a machine-checked proof from
         | Mathlib. What you get from even the most heavyweight math books
         | is still quite far from showing you _all_ the steps involved.
        
         | bmitc wrote:
         | While world class, Russian mathematics is not known for rigor,
         | formality, or detail, so I'm dubious.
        
       | mathattack wrote:
       | Seems like a lot of different audiences. My observation is this
       | is trying to cover 2 of the 3 common tracks:
       | 
       | 1 - Proof based calculus for math majors
       | 
       | 2 - Technique based calculus for hard science majors
       | 
       | 3 - Watered down calculus for soft science and business majors
       | (yes, there are a few schools that are exceptions to this)
       | 
       | If he can pull off unifying 1 and 2, good for him!
        
         | lanstin wrote:
         | I don't think they are unifiable, the aims and methods one
         | needs to learn are just too different. Limits of covering boxes
         | and scaling your epsilons and so on, stuff from Tao's class on
         | analysis is far away from being able to deal either non-trivial
         | differential equations or stability analysis. You can prove all
         | sorts of things about dense subspaces of Hilbert space and
         | still get totally lost in multiple scale analysis, and vice
         | versa. (Ed: epsilon was spelled espikon)
        
       | anthk wrote:
       | Get Zenlisp running too https://www.t3x.org/zsp/index.html and
       | just have a look on how the (intersection) function it's defined.
       | 
       | Now you'll get things in a much easier way, for both programming
       | and math.
        
       | belter wrote:
       | This one is a hard pass. The book needs tighter editing and more
       | rigorous reviewing.
       | 
       | It tries to serve all at once, but ends up in an awkward middle
       | ground. Not deep enough to function as a real analysis text for
       | Mathematicians, yet full of proofs that Scientists and Engineers
       | do not care about, while failing to deliver the kind of practical
       | rigor, those groups need when using calculus as a tool.
        
       | gbacon wrote:
       | > Die Mathematiker sind eine Art Franzosen: Redet man zu ihnen,
       | so ubersetzen sie es in ihre Sprache, und alsbald ist es etwas
       | ganz anderes. (Goethe)
        
       | JosephK wrote:
       | >Calculus is an important part of the intellectual tradition
       | handed down to us by the Ancient Greeks.
       | 
       | No it isn't? It was discovered by Newton and Leibnitz. If they're
       | talking about Archimedes and integrals, I seem to recall his work
       | on that was only rediscovered through a palimpsest in the last
       | couple of decades and it contributed nothing towards Newton and
       | Leibnitz's work.
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | Calculus was actually pioneered by the Kerala School of
         | mathematicians in India during the European Middle Ages,
         | several centuries prior to Newton and Leibniz popularizing it
         | in Europe. The Indian texts were also quite well known to
         | Europeans by that time, it was nowhere close to an independent
         | discovery.
        
         | DroneBetter wrote:
         | Archimedes had functionally developed a method of integration
         | (which was how he obtained results like volume/surface area of
         | a sphere, or centre of mass of a hemisphere) in a manuscript
         | that got lost to time and then rediscovered in a palimpsest
         | (pasted and written over with a religious text)
        
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