[HN Gopher] New Apple Study Shows LLMs Can Tell What You're Doin...
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       New Apple Study Shows LLMs Can Tell What You're Doing from Audio
       and Motion Data
        
       Author : andrewrn
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2025-11-22 15:45 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (9to5mac.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (9to5mac.com)
        
       | chasing0entropy wrote:
       | If you're interested in this concept, it's not new and the alarm
       | has been sounded since the android Facebook app required motion
       | sensor permissions in android 4.
       | 
       | https://par.nsf.gov/servlets/purl/10028982
       | 
       | https://arxiv.org/pdf/2109.13834.pdf
        
         | thewebguyd wrote:
         | > alarm has been sounded since the android Facebook app
         | required motion sensor permissions in android 4.
         | 
         | Serves as a useful reminder that just because someone may not
         | care if these companies collect this data _now,_ they are
         | storing it, sometimes indefinitely, and as technology advances,
         | will be able to make more use of it than they were at the time
         | you agreed to share it with them.
         | 
         | It's like all the ransomware gangs hoarding the encrypted data
         | they stole, waiting for a quantum computing breakthrough to be
         | able to decrypt it.
         | 
         | Not sure what to do about it, if anything, but the average
         | person is severely under-equipped and undereducated to deal
         | with this and protect themselves from the levels of
         | surveillance that are soon to come.
        
           | skybrian wrote:
           | There are exceptions, but for the most part, I'm not sure
           | that knowing specifically what I was doing five years ago has
           | much value to me or anyone else?
           | 
           | I was probably sitting in front of a computer.
        
             | jazzyjackson wrote:
             | You are not always the target, but leaking data like this
             | empowers those that may use it against someone else. I mean
             | to say, you are providing training data. People who move-
             | like-this-at-these-times _also_ have these other
             | tendencies... It 's like fusion sensing.
             | 
             | Same with secure messaging. You might not care that [insert
             | boogeyman here] know what you're doing all day, but people
             | you interact with may be harmed by you being leaky.
             | 
             | Anyway, the whole point is your lack of imagination is not
             | a good reason to embrace surveillance. Rejecting
             | surveillance on principal slows down our descent into a
             | panopticonical hellscape.
        
               | globalnode wrote:
               | Firstly, I looked up panopticon, and it does indeed seem
               | like that is how modern societies are being structured
               | now, and secondly... It is true that people generally
               | seem to display a lack of imagination regarding all of
               | this. The whole "ive got nothing to hide so what do i
               | care if they surveil me" attitude comes across as selfish
               | and naive in this light.
               | 
               | I wonder what ad-tech or whatever org would do if we got
               | to a state where they just couldnt track or id people.
               | Would we still have free entertainment on the net? would
               | the net even still be mainstream?
        
             | fsflover wrote:
             | If only activists and journalists hide, while everybody
             | else provides all data to the government/Facebook, then it
             | becomes easy to track them.
        
         | hexbin010 wrote:
         | I tried denying the Sensor perm to most apps and my battery
         | tanked. My guess is there are a few that sit in a busy loop
         | trying to get the data with no handling of the permission not
         | being granted, because it's expected on 99.99999% of devices
        
       | andrewrn wrote:
       | Something to note here that annoys me about the title is that the
       | LLMs aren't taking in the raw data (LLM's are for text, after
       | all). The raw data is fed through audio and motion models that
       | then produce natural language descriptions, that are then fed to
       | the LLM.
       | 
       | Unrelated: yeah, this article is a little creepy, but damn is it
       | interesting technically.
        
       | palmotea wrote:
       | AI will finally allow us to bring 1984's Telescreens into
       | existence, at scale.
        
         | godelski wrote:
         | Doesn't the smartphone already far surpass the Telescreen's
         | capabilities and presence? It does more and we carry them in
         | our pockets.
         | 
         | Do people not realize we're beyond 1984? In 1984 the tech
         | wasn't always listening, rather it had the capacity to. Much of
         | it was about how not knowing meant you'd act as if you were
         | just in case. It was making reference to totalitarian states
         | where you don't know if you can freely talk to your neighbor or
         | if they'd turn you in, where people end up creating a double
         | speak
        
           | pramsey wrote:
           | In 1984 the idea was there were not enough people to listen
           | to everyone, all the time, but the mere possibility was
           | enough. Of course, for us with AI, things are considerable
           | worse. Also, tele screens were mandatory. We are not there
           | with cell phones in a de jure sense, but certainly there in a
           | de facto sense. Of course, if enough people carry phones, it
           | doesn't matter if a few stragglers don't, they will get
           | caught in the net unless they live as hermits, in which case
           | who cares about them. All the pieces are in place, there is
           | no reason we cannot have a global North Korea.
        
       | gizajob wrote:
       | Time to ditch the Apple Watch then
        
         | macintux wrote:
         | One more positive interpretation of Apple's research interests
         | here is that devices like the Watch can better differentiate
         | between "the wearer just fell and we should call 911" and "the
         | wearer is playing with their kids".
        
           | bigyabai wrote:
           | "Can" does not necessarily mean "will", especially for Apple.
           | I wouldn't be surprised if you're describing a feature slated
           | for release in 2037.
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | https://support.apple.com/en-us/108896
        
           | b00ty4breakfast wrote:
           | nuclear power generation is pretty beneficial, but that
           | doesn't justify the existence of nuclear weapons.
        
       | rckt wrote:
       | Why do you need LLM to interpret patterns?
        
         | drdaeman wrote:
         | > The researchers ran the audio and motion data through smaller
         | models that generated text captions and class predictions, then
         | fed those outputs into different LLMs (Gemini-2.5-pro and
         | Qwen-32B) to see how well they could identify the activity.
         | 
         | Maybe I'm not understanding it, but as I get it, LLMs weren't
         | really important: all they did was further interpreting outputs
         | of a fronting audio-to-text classifier model.
        
         | Lerc wrote:
         | The same reason you need transistors to make computers.
         | 
         | You don't need them, but they are one way to do it that people
         | know how to implement.
         | 
         | Identifying patterns is fairly amenable to analytic approaches,
         | interpreting them, less so.
        
           | nrhrjrjrjtntbt wrote:
           | A better analogy is: same reason you need FPGAs to run x86
           | code. You dont, but if FPGAs are hot and good for your career
           | you gonna use them.
        
         | bigyabai wrote:
         | To ensure you drank your Verification Can of Mountain Dew, of
         | course.
        
       | skavi wrote:
       | Maybe the 2026 Apple Watch will be able to auto detect running as
       | reliably as my 2015 Samsung Gear S2. My 2022 Series 8 is
       | certainly not there yet.
        
         | frizlab wrote:
         | That's weird, I have perfect running detection on an old(er)
         | (Apple) watch. Detection does start late (but is retroactive,
         | so it's not an issue).
        
           | mh- wrote:
           | And that's by design, because it waits for a larger window of
           | data to gain confidence. Notice how you ~never get false
           | positives on it starting an exercise session.
           | 
           | I see comments like GP's often enough that I think Apple just
           | does a bad job explaining how/why it works.
        
       | disambiguation wrote:
       | https://abc7.com/post/student-handcuffed-doritos-bag-mistake...
        
       | TZubiri wrote:
       | The tinfoil interpretatio that LLMs can spy on you is
       | shortsighted and a bit paranoid, it would require LLM providers
       | to actually run a prompt asking what you are doing.
       | 
       | However, any system with a mic, like your cellphone listening for
       | a "Hey Siri" prompt, or your fridge, could theoretically be
       | coupled with an llm on an adhoc basis to get a fuller picture of
       | what's going on.
       | 
       | Pretty cool, if an attacker or govt force with a warrant can get
       | an audio stream they can get some clues although of course not
       | probatory evidence.
        
       | micromacrofoot wrote:
       | we'll inevitably have universal tracking for everything like this
       | (good luck privacy), it's essentially machine learning around a
       | bunch of vibration patterns... ideal for a device that hundreds
       | of millions of people are carrying everywhere daily
        
       | eth0up wrote:
       | In about:config (Firefox) would
       | 
       |  _device.sensors.enabled = false_
       | 
       | have any effect for browser based access, or is this strictly the
       | app?
        
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       (page generated 2025-11-22 23:01 UTC)