[HN Gopher] Arduino published updated terms and conditions: no l...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Arduino published updated terms and conditions: no longer an open
       commons
        
       Previous thread: _The Death of Arduino?_ -
       https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45984143
        
       Author : felineflock
       Score  : 259 points
       Date   : 2025-11-21 15:44 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.molecularist.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.molecularist.com)
        
       | baaron wrote:
       | Previous discussion:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45984143
        
         | timbit42 wrote:
         | This article is much, much better than the LinkedIn article
         | though.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Thanks, we'll put that in the top text as well.
        
       | abstractbeliefs wrote:
       | Arduino has long been fraught with governance and licensing
       | issues, but at its core has been supported first and foremost by
       | a community of keen amateurs and patient professionals teaching
       | in their off time.
       | 
       | This is a reminder - never sell out your baby unless you're
       | willing to see it squeezed for every penny, community be damned.
        
         | adfm wrote:
         | Arduino is as influential as it is controversial and has been
         | from the beginning.
         | 
         | https://arduinohistory.github.io
         | 
         | https://hackaday.com/2016/03/04/wiring-was-arduino-before-ar...
        
       | Random09 wrote:
       | Looks it's time to move on. New platform and tools will emerge,
       | I'm sure of it. The only way we can fight corpos is not giving
       | them money and not talking about them.
        
         | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
         | BeagleBone has been great and is going strong
        
           | stackghost wrote:
           | It's not cheap but I really enjoy tinkering with their RISCV
           | boards.
        
           | chemotaxis wrote:
           | It's a completely different thing. Single-board computer
           | versus a microcontroller. It might not matter for some
           | applications, but it's a major tradeoff.
           | 
           | But the only value of Arduino is the community (and the
           | compile-time layer of syntactic sugar, if you like it).
           | Otherwise, it's just an expensive breakout board for a cheap
           | chip you can buy from Mouser or DigiKey. If you know how to
           | solder, you don't really need the board in the first place.
        
             | KalMann wrote:
             | Aren't you forgetting about the software that makes it so
             | easy and straightforward for newcomers to flash programs
             | and experiment the microcontroller?
        
               | chemotaxis wrote:
               | First, the software is available whether you buy the
               | board or not.
               | 
               | Second, there's no real difficulty barrier, not anymore.
               | There are point-and-click tools, free integrated IDEs,
               | cheap programming dongles, etc. There are more
               | _tutorials_ for Arduino than the underlying chip, and I
               | 'm not saying that doesn't matter - but it boils down to
               | the community, not the hardware.
        
         | f1shy wrote:
         | Esp32; teensy; seed
        
       | actinium226 wrote:
       | It doesn't look like they've made any drastic changes that would
       | impel anyone to leave Arduino tomorrow, or in the foreseeable
       | future, but if they keep going down this route I imagine the
       | community will move to RPi. They've always been vastly more
       | performant than Arduino and they can run linux, which is somewhat
       | more approachable than the concept of programming a
       | microcontroller and only being able to talk to it over serial.
        
         | frumplestlatz wrote:
         | It looks like they have modern options that run Linux now; it's
         | no longer the realm of 8-bit Atmel MCUs.
         | 
         | I'm not sure what the value proposition is overall, though. The
         | IDE, perhaps? I never particularly saw the draw, but it clearly
         | met the needs of some real market niche.
        
           | ibgeek wrote:
           | Maybe two different things here: SBCs that run Linux versus
           | microcontrollers (MCUs).
           | 
           | MCUs are lower power, have less overhead, and can perform
           | hard real-time tasks. Most of what Arduino focuses on are
           | MCUs. The equivalent is the Raspberry Pi Pico.
           | 
           | In my experience, the key thing is the library ecosystem for
           | the C++ runtime environment. There are a large number of
           | Arduino and third-party high-level libraries provided through
           | their package management system that make it really easy to
           | use sensors and other hardware without needing to write
           | intermediate level code that uses SPI or I2C. And it all
           | integrates and works together. The Pico C/C++ SDK is lower
           | level and doesn't have a good library / package management
           | story, so you have to read vendor data sheets to figure out
           | how to communicate with hardware and then write your own
           | libraries.
           | 
           | It's much more common for less experienced users to use
           | MicroPython. It has a package management and library
           | ecosystem. But it's also harder to write anything of any
           | complexity that fits within the small RAM available without
           | calling gc.collect() in every other line.
        
             | exasperaited wrote:
             | Yes. One looming concern here is that if the new Arduino is
             | happy locking stuff down, the Arduino IDE story could end
             | up being murkier like the PlatformIO story.
        
         | nyeah wrote:
         | The patent language would worry me a lot. It would be tough to
         | have to admit, up front, "even if this widget becomes popular I
         | can never build a business on it."
         | 
         | But I'm not using Arduino, so idk.
        
           | phoehne wrote:
           | The cool thing about an Arduino is you can just buy the
           | boards and use them in a commercial product. This isn't
           | something you can do with other boards. Some people have said
           | the license requires you to disclose your firmware, but
           | that's not the way I read it and I've never heard of anyone
           | being compelled to release anything (unless they modify any
           | GPL covered code).
           | 
           | Not all platforms give you the right to do this. For example,
           | if you buy a dev board from STM - it's only licensed for
           | research and development. Also, because you might want to
           | continue to sell the same thing for years, and the board
           | designs were open-sourced, you could buy the same part for
           | years and years. So you can continue to sell your CNC kit
           | that uses an Mega 2560 without worrying about Arduino coming
           | after you or that they'd discontinue that part.
        
             | nyeah wrote:
             | Has Qualcomm changed that?
        
               | phoehne wrote:
               | Not in the short while since they've purchased Arduino,
               | but I could see them restricting the licensing for
               | commercial use, while keeping it freely usable for
               | education. Like STM.
        
           | exasperaited wrote:
           | > "even if this widget becomes popular I can never build a
           | business on it.
           | 
           | With the exception of a handful of applications for their
           | higher-end boards, I would think most of this flotilla of
           | ships has already sailed, just on a cost basis?
           | 
           | Especially lately. So much more choice.
        
             | nyeah wrote:
             | There's believing Arduino isn't useful for anything
             | serious. And that might be true, I don't know. But then
             | there's buying the company and making sure it isn't good
             | for anything serious. It's that second part that confuses
             | me.
        
         | phoehne wrote:
         | It won't be just one big move that kills the community.
         | Eventually, I could see it as locked down as the STM32
         | ecosystem. Nor do I see them continuing to sell the same parts
         | for over a decade. They'll just want to use it to promote new
         | kit. Nor do I see them keeping to board designs open over the
         | long term. That will come one little step at a time.
        
         | exasperaited wrote:
         | Full-size RPi isn't Arduino's competition, surely (except for
         | the newest Uno Q, which is a novel take on a Pi-type SBC).
         | 
         | There are meaningful disadvantages to replacing an Arduino with
         | even the Pi Zero.
         | 
         | Yeah, makers will move to Raspberry Pi products for the
         | ecosystem and documentation, but it will be to the RP2040/2350
         | products.
         | 
         | But also the ESP32 series, particularly Adafruit's kit.
        
         | bangaladore wrote:
         | RPi is not a good analog compared to Arduino.
         | 
         | The main feature of classic Arduino boards has always been a
         | thin abstraction layer on bare metal. RPi is not that at all.
         | 
         | (As mentioned by the other commenter, I'm referring to their
         | Linux boards, not the Pico)
        
           | ginko wrote:
           | RPi Picos are certainly bare metal.
        
             | bangaladore wrote:
             | Yes, their MCU offerings are. And I generally think that
             | Micropython is a better "modern" Arduino.
             | 
             | But most people know them for their Linux boards. And
             | that's what OC was talking about.
        
           | actinium226 wrote:
           | I disagree, I think for the average hobbyist Arduino is an
           | abstraction of "thing that can talk to sensors and actuate
           | motors." You're right of course that RPi (excl pico) is very
           | different from Arduino, but for the hobbyist it makes no
           | difference if the processor on the Arduino is an Atmel or an
           | ARM.
        
             | bangaladore wrote:
             | > but for the hobbyist it makes no difference if the
             | processor on the Arduino is an Atmel or an ARM.
             | 
             | I don't think anyone was arguing they cared about Atmel vs
             | ARM. In fact, the point of Arduino is to make that not even
             | something a user would need to know.
             | 
             | The argument is Linux vs Bare metal Arduino are vastly
             | different user experiences and complexities.
        
         | procaryote wrote:
         | I often use picos because they're much more capable when it
         | comes to interfacing with hardware.
         | 
         | You can do gpio, pwm etc from a linux pi but the hardware is
         | worse at it and you'll be fighting against the system quite a
         | bit. It's a lot of boring complexity to be allowed to do
         | something simple; and the next update might break it.
         | 
         | If I need a linux system AND hardware interfacing, I'll usually
         | use a regular pi + a pico for the hardware stuff and connect
         | them via serial or something
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | Do tinkerers still use Arduino? I have a couple of boards here,
       | but since I moved to ESP32, I never used them again. The last
       | usages I gave an Arduino board was for it to serve as a
       | programmer for my ESP2688. And the Arduino IDE has been replaced
       | with PlatformIO in VS Code.
        
         | Fairburn wrote:
         | Same, esp32. Not liking the path that Arduino is on currently.
        
         | hiddencost wrote:
         | Yup. Esp32 is just better.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | I actually use Teensy. I found that the ESP32 and its whole
         | WiFi stack (?) were slowing the device down. It's not bare-
         | bones enough for many of my projects.
        
         | ghurtado wrote:
         | No we don't.
         | 
         | I have dozens of Arduinos that I will never use.
         | 
         | With a similarly priced (sometimes cheaper) platform like the
         | amazing rp2040 / rp2350 which is roughly 100 times more
         | powerful, I have no idea what the niche is for them any more.
         | 
         | The way they dropped the ball with their IDE is amazing. It
         | still looks and feels like something that was rejected during
         | beta testing in 1993
         | 
         | Arduino is following roughly the same trajectory as BlackBerry,
         | with the current phase being "rapidly fading into obscurity"
        
           | cptskippy wrote:
           | I just made the discovery the other day that there are two
           | Arduino IDEs, the old crusty one maintained by Arduino.org
           | and the new hotness maintained by Arduino.cc.
           | 
           | I'd been using the Arduino.org version which had mostly
           | driven me to use PlatformIO and ESPHome.
           | 
           | https://www.arduino.cc/en/software/#ide
           | 
           | Unfortunately, but perhaps fortuitously, I needed to use a
           | Library only compatible with Arduino 3.0.0 which is
           | incompatible with PlatformIO. That lead me to discover the
           | Arduino.cc IDE which, while not on par with VSCode, is
           | dramatically better than the Arduino.org IDE.
        
           | adiabatichottub wrote:
           | I'm sure somebody like me would happily take them off your
           | hands. The AVR is still a solid platform for low-level
           | applications. A lot of the Arduino libraries never really
           | took full advantage of what you could do with that chip.
           | Whatever happens with the Arduino IDE, those boards will
           | still be useful tools for quite a while.
        
           | jack_tripper wrote:
           | _> No we don't_
           | 
           | Why do you speak for everyone? I use my 2009 Arduino when I
           | need something quick and simple.
        
           | jonp888 wrote:
           | There's plenty of semi-technical tinkerers out there, doing
           | things like building flight sim cockpits, scraping by on
           | copying ready made code, doing minimal changes and asking
           | forums or LLMs if they get stuck.
           | 
           | They just want something that works, and ideally to keep
           | using the same thing they've always used. They know what
           | Arduino is, as long as it does the job they aren't interested
           | in researching alternatives. They don't want to get involved
           | in adapting someone's instructions for a different pin
           | layout, or risk that anything they've done up to now stops
           | working.
           | 
           | Yes, _we_ all know it 's a massively out of date platform
           | easily outclassed by much cheaper and more flexible
           | solutions, and if you must use the Arduino IDE it can build
           | code for all sorts of boards. But for non-technical people by
           | far the most important factor is to stick with something safe
           | and known.
        
         | fodkodrasz wrote:
         | Not sure if this really counts as tinkering, but the other day
         | I needed a custom HID device for my PC. I ordered an Arduino
         | Micro (I think?), one that supports HID out of the box, and
         | with under 300 lines of code my problem was solved.
         | 
         | The Arduino HAL and the overall comfort of the Arduino IDE are
         | genuinely valuable. I didn't have to learn new flashing tools
         | or a new debugging toolchain just to light a few LEDs, read
         | some buttons, and emulate keypresses on a PC. The learning
         | curve was basically zero.
         | 
         | I've worked with embedded systems before, and this level of
         | simplicity is incredibly useful for people who just want to
         | ship simple solutions to simple problems without fighting
         | through vendor-specific, arcane tooling.
         | 
         | I've got some RP2350s since then with Micropython, now those
         | might be even better for getting stuff done (without network or
         | extreme low power needs)
        
           | jacquesm wrote:
           | The Arduino IDE works for many other devices as well if you
           | really want it.
        
         | shevy-java wrote:
         | I tried to get into it; built some simple LED thingies. Then
         | kind of fatigued.
         | 
         | I semi-attribute this to my lack of willpower but perhaps
         | arduino also isn't as tinker-epic as I thought it may be.
        
         | jgerrish wrote:
         | I don't know if I'll use Arduino in a professional project, but
         | the existence of simavr and in-tree QEMU support means I can at
         | least unit-test my code without dedicated test runners hooked
         | up to hardware or licensing for Wokwi.
         | 
         | Indie devs who need testable builds might be a smaller market
         | than tinkerers, but they're there.
         | 
         | It's a pain anticipating money flow into the future in more
         | ways than one.
        
       | oytis wrote:
       | What's the point of paying a hefty sum of money for the right to
       | destroy a product and a team neither or whom are in competition
       | with you? Not the first time I see it happening
        
         | nyeah wrote:
         | For some reason most companies never seem to realize that they
         | will destroy their acquisitions. It's always kind of an
         | afterthought. "Oh, right, we have to terrify the new customers
         | and lay off the people who make the products work. Sam, take
         | care of that, will you?"
         | 
         | Acquisitions tend to be done in a haze of dream-state thinking.
         | Maybe that's part of it.
        
         | toyg wrote:
         | You're buying an established brand to augment yours, regardless
         | of what that brand does. It's a sort of SEO.
         | 
         | In this case, though, I disagree that there was no competition.
         | Ecosystems like Arduino are real threats to large incumbents in
         | adjacent sectors. If all the tooling and products necessary to
         | embedded development end up being easily accessible, expensive
         | options like Qualcomm's become effectively commoditized.
         | Qualcomm basically acted like Bill Gates buying Compu-Global-
         | Hyper-Mega-Net https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/Compu-Global-
         | Hyper-Mega-Net
        
       | zajio1am wrote:
       | From Arduino ecosystem i always have a feeling that they try to
       | do an unnecessary ecosystem lock-in. Most Arduinos are just Atmel
       | AVR MCU with fancy bootloader. You do not need Arduino-this or
       | Arduino-that for programming them, avr-gcc and avr-libc is
       | enough.
        
         | oytis wrote:
         | There is no lock in, you can use avr-gcc with Arduino boards.
         | Arduino is a portable SDK with HAL, you can add support for
         | your own devices to it pretty easily
        
           | zajio1am wrote:
           | Yes, i mean more like educational lock-in, trying to push
           | their own tools and SDKs so people get used to them.
        
             | oytis wrote:
             | The point is ease of use. It was designed for artists and
             | other non-programmers originally. I've seen people who
             | would never figure out how to use a crosscompiler do pretty
             | cool things with Arduino.
        
           | ghurtado wrote:
           | The lock-in is that it's a big pain in the arse to use
           | anything but their IDE.
           | 
           | Most vendor lock-in isn't "it's impossible to do the thing"
           | but "it's hard enough to do the thing any other way, so this
           | is effectively the only practical way to do it"
        
             | MSFT_Edging wrote:
             | It's also possible to import the Arduino libs/headers and
             | build against them with a little bit of Make.
             | 
             | I put together a simple setup to skip the arduino ide on an
             | AVR design, but still be able to use their serial.println
             | and other utilities. You can use it side by side with
             | manual register masks for enabling IO.
        
             | oytis wrote:
             | But the vendor in this case is Atmel and the hard way has
             | existed before Arduino was created. The contribution of
             | Arduino was that they made the simplified path - it doesn't
             | make sense to accuse them of lock in for that.
        
             | ErroneousBosh wrote:
             | > The lock-in is that it's a big pain in the arse to use
             | anything but their IDE.
             | 
             | How so? It uses bog standard avr-gcc and avrdude. There is
             | nothing stopping you from using those yourself.
             | 
             | What's hard about it?
        
         | abstractbeliefs wrote:
         | I think it's important to understand the early development.
         | 
         | It's true that you can (and always could) use avr-gcc and libc,
         | but the core sale was what makes it not this.
         | 
         | The "locked in"/captured API and IDE were directly extensions
         | of a language and IDE called Processing.
         | 
         | Processing overlaid an art-focussed layer on top of Java,
         | providing a simpler API, and an IDE with just two buttons.
         | 
         | Arduino was based on this - the same IDE format, similar API
         | conventions (just on top of C++), precisely to allow these same
         | artists to move into physical installations and art.
         | 
         | Arduino was not designed initially to be so general, it was
         | tool written by and for this specific group of people, so has
         | opinions and handrails that limit the space to provide the same
         | affordances as Processing specifically.
        
         | phoehne wrote:
         | From an embedded developer's perspective, Arduino is awful.
         | That hero-loop programming is not what anyone should ever do.
         | And experienced developers can get better results from
         | something like FreeRTOS (or if you're a masochist Zephyr). And
         | ESP32s are cheaper, as are RP2040s. ...
         | 
         | But take a room full of kids and get them to write a program
         | that blinks an LED, or drive a simple 'robot' forward, and it's
         | awesome. Easy to use. I've never burned out a board (even
         | driving considerable current through them). Things are
         | tolerably well marked. Lots of teaching tools. Lots of
         | different suppliers of easy to connect motors, servos, lights,
         | sensors, etc.
         | 
         | For the same reason, if you are not an embedded engineer, but
         | need a simple micro-controller to turn something on an off like
         | a heater in a chicken coop, it's fantastic. And if you want,
         | buy the $5 knock-off Uno. It should be the same, except that it
         | doesn't support the (now defunct) foundation.
        
           | adiabatichottub wrote:
           | > From an embedded developer's perspective, Arduino is awful.
           | 
           | Specific AVR Arduino annoyances I remember:
           | 
           | * Strings loaded to RAM instead of program memory, so you use
           | up all your RAM if you have a lot of text. Easily fixed with
           | a macro
           | 
           | * serial.println blocks, so your whole program has to stop
           | and wait for the string to be transmitted. Easily fixed with
           | a buffer and ISR
           | 
           | * Floating-point used everywhere, because fuck you
           | 
           | * No printf(). It's in avr-libc, and it's easy plumbed in,
           | but the first C/C++ function that everybody ever learned to
           | use was somehow too complicated or something.
           | 
           | * A hacked-together preprocessor that concatenated
           | everything, which meant you could only have your includes in
           | one place, thus breaking perfectly good, portable code.
           | 
           | I think they ultimately did a disservice to novice
           | programmers by giving them something that was almost a
           | standard C++ environment, but just not quite.
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | > Strings loaded to RAM
             | 
             | Modern AVRs have program memory mapped into the RAM address
             | space. The GCC linker scripts for the parts that support
             | this put strings into .rodata within that memory region,
             | obviating the need for special macros to retrieve them.
             | However, you won't find this on most of the usual suspects
             | in the Arduino AVR ecosystem.
        
       | whynotmaybe wrote:
       | > The most dangerous change is Arduino now explicitly states that
       | using their platform grants you no patent licenses whatsoever.
       | You can't even argue one is implied.
       | 
       | > This means Qualcomm could potentially assert patents against
       | your projects if you built them using Arduino tools, Arduino
       | examples, or Arduino-compatible hardware.
       | 
       | Yep, the complete opposite of "open".
        
       | adhoc_slime wrote:
       | arduino's response to the discourse is here:
       | 
       | https://blog.arduino.cc/2025/11/21/the-arduino-terms-of-serv...
        
         | M95D wrote:
         | I don't trust that reply.
         | 
         | I'm not saying the person(s) who wrote that is(are) lying. It's
         | just that it doesn't seem to come from someone with authority
         | to make decisions like that or even from someone well informed
         | about the global strategy of the corporation.
         | 
         | To me "Arduino Team" is just a bunch of hopeful or even naive
         | employees.
        
           | belval wrote:
           | Your comment is/was getting downvoted perhaps because of the
           | last line but this is very true:
           | 
           | > It's just that it doesn't seem to come from someone with
           | authority to make decisions like that or even from someone
           | well informed about the global strategy of the corporation.
           | 
           | Arduino is owned by Qualcomm, Qualcomm is known for being
           | litigious. Whoever wrote that note, unless it was the CEO of
           | Qualcomm, doesn't actually call the shots and if tomorrow the
           | directive comes from above to sue makers they will have to
           | comply.
        
             | cosmicgadget wrote:
             | I mean even if it came from the CEO he could change his
             | mind tomorrow.
             | 
             | It's maybe better to look at incentives, something that
             | blog posts can help illustrate. Does Qualcomm want to mine
             | the maker community for IP or get them to adopt its
             | technology?
        
       | sansseriff wrote:
       | I remember 15 years ago when I was in highschool I really wanted
       | to learn how to program 8 bit microcontrollers without Arduino.
       | And everybody looked at me like I was crazy. There was barely any
       | learning material out there about how to do this.
       | 
       | Now, I imagine the bias pushing everyone to learn on arduino is
       | even more intense? Who out there is programming these chips in
       | pure C using open source compilers and bootloaders?
       | 
       | Edit: Of course there's other platforms like Esp32; teensy; seed.
       | But I've only programmed Esp32s using the arduino dev
       | environment. Are there other good ways of doing it?
        
         | RobRivera wrote:
         | Whats the motorola ecosystem like these days? Its been a good
         | 16 years for me
        
         | phoehne wrote:
         | 15 years ago I think Arduino was the best choice for
         | educational purposes. I still think it's a great choice now.
         | The fact the IDE and board are basically the same as they were
         | 15 years ago, means you can figure out how to set everything up
         | once and focus on teaching, rather than PC trouble-shooting.
         | Which, for basic concepts, or younger kids, is great. And if
         | they find a 5 or 10 year old video on how to do something, it's
         | still relevant.
         | 
         | If I were putting teaching materials today - I would pick
         | something like Micro python. The down side is it isn't as
         | "canned" a solution, meaning there might be something new to
         | figure out every so often. Which means you spend more time
         | helping people trouble shoot why something isn't working,
         | instead of teaching something useful. On the up side, Python is
         | pretty much the introductory language of choice, today. With
         | lots of available materials.
         | 
         | That's not to say Arduino was perfect. Far from it. Just easier
         | to do, and more consistent over time, than other options.
        
         | colonial wrote:
         | > Are there other good ways of doing it?
         | 
         | I'm working on an ESP32 project right now, and Espressif
         | provides shrink-wrapped toolchains for C/++ and Rust. The
         | latter even comes with a little tool called 'espup' that
         | cleanly installs their fork of Rust and LLVM (for Xtensa
         | support) - I was able to compile and run a blinky in less than
         | half an hour.
         | 
         | See https://docs.espressif.com/projects/rust/book/ - it also
         | wasn't too hard for me to whip up a Nix Flake with the same
         | toolchain, if that's your jam.
        
         | cptskippy wrote:
         | > But I've only programmed Esp32s using the arduino dev
         | environment.
         | 
         | Well you can use PlatformIO/VSCode and the ESP-IDF.
         | 
         | If you're ok with the Arduino 2 framework, then you can use
         | PlatformIO as well. Unfortunately Arduino 3 support isn't there
         | yet so a lot of libraries like HomeSpan won't work on
         | PlatformIO at the moment.
         | 
         | https://github.com/platformio/platform-espressif32/issues/12...
        
         | pedro_caetano wrote:
         | > Who out there is programming these chips in pure C using open
         | source compilers and bootloaders?
         | 
         | The gcc-arm-none-eabi toolchain is pretty much what you are
         | asking for at least for ARM targets. You can literally use a
         | text editor and gcc-arm-none-eabi, that's it.
         | 
         | And if you want something really bare bones avr-gcc still
         | targets the whole atmel family including those ATtiny chips
         | which are also a lot of fun.
         | 
         | I don't know the state of it nowadays but 'Mbed' is probably
         | worth looking into. The project had _a_lot_ of Middleware
         | libraries to abstract hardware, a few levels below, makes
         | embedded development a little less datasheet dependent,
         | specially if you are just hacking something as a hobbyist.
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | You can also ditch the space consumed by a bootloader and
           | save the UART for something productive in your designs. This
           | is makes it feasible to use the smaller capacity chips and
           | have more headroom on the larger ones. AVR programmers are
           | cheap and the latest serial port based protocol requires the
           | barest of hardware to support.
        
         | adiabatichottub wrote:
         | I learned how to program the AVR in assembly 25 years ago by
         | reading the datasheet and various articles in Nuts and Volts.
         | For its time the AVR had a very accessible development kit, the
         | STK500, which cost about $100. A few years later avr-libc came
         | along and if you were running linux and knew how to write C it
         | was pretty easy to get started.
        
         | watermelon0 wrote:
         | > There was barely any learning material out there about how to
         | do this.
         | 
         | I started playing around with ATmega/ATtiny around 2008, and
         | from what I remember, there were plenty of tutorials and
         | examples out there.
         | 
         | I remember that AVR and PIC were two popular options among
         | hobbyists at that time, but I started with AVR since it was
         | easier to get the programmer, and it had a lot better open
         | source tooling.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | Small MCUs like the low-end PICs are best programmed in Asm.
        
         | ErroneousBosh wrote:
         | > Who out there is programming these chips in pure C using open
         | source compilers and bootloaders?
         | 
         | Everyone using Arduino, for a start.
        
       | jajuuka wrote:
       | Qualcomm wasted no time and tanking this purchase. Not sure how
       | the MBA's thought this would be a good idea to change everything
       | about a project. Wouldn't be surprised to see the prices of the
       | boards go up $200 tomorrow at this rate.
        
       | ndiddy wrote:
       | This article is somewhat misleading. The changed ToS only covers
       | Arduino's hosted cloud services, not the IDE or microcontroller
       | library. This is spelled out in black and white in the first
       | paragraph of the ToS:
       | 
       | > 1.1 The Site is part of the platform developed and managed by
       | Arduino, which allows users to take part in the discussions on
       | the Arduino forum, the Arduino blog, the Arduino User Group, the
       | Arduino Discord channel, and the Arduino Project Hub, and to
       | access the Arduino main website, subsites, Arduino Cloud, Arduino
       | Courses, Arduino Certifications, Arduino Docs, the Arduino EDU
       | kit sites to release works within the Contributor License
       | Agreement program, and to further develop the Arduino open source
       | ecosystem (collectively, the "Platform"). The use of the Site,
       | the Platform, and the Services is governed by these Terms
       | including the other documents and policies made available on the
       | Platform by Arduino.Certifications, Arduino Docs, the Arduino EDU
       | kit sites to release works within the Contributor License
       | Agreement program, and to further develop the Arduino open source
       | ecosystem (collectively, the "Platform"). The use of the Site,
       | the Platform, and the Services is governed by these Terms
       | including the other documents and policies made available on the
       | Platform by Arduino.
        
         | mrlambchop wrote:
         | (caveat - not a lawyer... but I'll share my opinion)
         | 
         | That list in 1.1 isn't an exhaustive definition which is IMO,
         | one of the causes of the fire. Again, "IMO", the list is an
         | illustrative set of examples as there is no limiting language
         | like "solely" or "only" and the clause even mixes services and
         | purposes, which again signals it's descriptive rather than
         | definitive.
         | 
         | Saying that, whilst the list inside the definition of "the
         | Platform" is illustrative, the category it defines seems scoped
         | to Arduino-hosted online properties which could be argued is
         | the intent. But its an argument alas...
         | 
         | Either way, ambiguous policy is being communicated by these T+C
         | updates and that is a real problem.
        
         | st3fan wrote:
         | Yeah no. Wishful thinking. History has shown that huge
         | corporations taking over open source project generally results
         | in a big change how those projects are governed and how the
         | legalese like t&c turns out.
         | 
         | Not a lawyer obviously - but lets see how this plays out.
        
       | mlindner wrote:
       | This was already covered in the previous thread you mentioned.
       | Just merge the threads.
        
         | macintux wrote:
         | Dang added the previous thread to the description. I don't know
         | why he didn't merge them.
        
       | jcalvinowens wrote:
       | Is Arduino actually used for anything serious? While I certainly
       | appreciate how their whole ecosystem has made working with
       | microcontrollers more accessible... even the most casual
       | hobbyists I know very quickly move on to something like an ESP32.
        
       | teo_zero wrote:
       | Please, before commenting on this article, be sure to read
       | Qualcomm's reply posted by adhoc_slime:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46007805
        
       | lysace wrote:
       | https://github.com/arduino/arduino-ide
       | 
       | License: GNU Affero General Public License v3.0
       | 
       | Who does the fork? Paging e.g. Adafruit and Sparkfun.
        
       | tonyhart7 wrote:
       | Qualcomm would force arduino to focus at enterprise offering
       | 
       | its happy ending for both investor
        
       | franky47 wrote:
       | Sad, I wrote my first ever programs on Arduino, learned C++
       | through it, and did my first OSS contribution by creating the
       | Arduino MIDI Library, ~16 years ago.
       | 
       | I wouldn't be where I am if it wasn't for Arduino. Thank you to
       | the OSH community for making these boards open to all back then.
        
       | nofunsir wrote:
       | I see Gianluca Martino let arduino.com lapse/is squatting it.
       | Maybe the experiment is done? Is Adafruit no longer
       | #TeamArduinoCC ?
        
         | ptorrone wrote:
         | good find, i can say that we are (adafruit) always
         | #teamopensourcearduino which is what cc _was_
        
       | LandoCalrissian wrote:
       | Qualcomm blew this up in record time, impressive stuff.
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | That's sad. Perhaps a fork may be created, but right now I think
       | it is true that arduino is dead. Guess we need an alternative
       | now.
        
       | manchoz wrote:
       | Arduino official response -
       | https://blog.arduino.cc/2025/11/21/the-arduino-terms-of-serv...
        
       | talideon wrote:
       | Well, I'd say the Qualcommisation of Arduino is happening as
       | expected and apace.
        
       | VerifiedReports wrote:
       | I haven't even considered Arduino for anything in years. It's
       | just way overpriced and oversized. For the same price as an Uno
       | you can get a Raspberry Pi 4, or seven Picos.
       | 
       | Nonetheless, this looks like another step toward robbing everyone
       | of something useful and reducing our options... not to mention
       | encouraging others to do the same thing. Depressing.
        
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