[HN Gopher] Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in L...
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Two recently found works of J.S. Bach presented in Leipzig [video]
https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/germany-hails-...
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/19/arts/music/bach-newly-dis...,
https://archive.ph/6DXns
Author : Archelaos
Score : 75 points
Date : 2025-11-17 20:13 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| dang wrote:
| [stub for offtopicness]
| mcswell wrote:
| Wunderbar!
|
| Nothing happens for about the first seven minutes, then there's
| an intro in German until about 11 minutes, and then another not
| much happens until 15 minutes. But then...!
| hulitu wrote:
| > But then...!
|
| ... an unskippable ad. /s
| gabrielsroka wrote:
| 15m28s https://youtube.com/watch?v=4hXzUGYIL9M&t=15m28s
| dang wrote:
| We'll link to that above. Thanks!
| lordleft wrote:
| Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist in
| human history. Full stop. He is able to condense so much
| complexity into his works, and he speaks to the heart as equally
| as he speaks to the intellect. He is proof that the mind and the
| heart do not have to be at cross purposes, but can be wholly
| engaged together when stimulated by sublime works of art.
| hodgehog11 wrote:
| Do you have any particular pieces in mind when you wrote this?
|
| Bach is impressive, no doubt, but to each their own perhaps. I
| acknowledge that I have not received the appropriate training
| to fully appreciate the complexity in his works, so I wish I
| could hear what you do. To my ear, (and this isn't a novel
| opinion in the slightest), I think the Baroque era was more
| limited in expression due to the inherent limitations in the
| instruments and consequent styles at the time. Within those
| constraints, calling Bach an absolute titan of composition
| would be an understatement. But one wonders what he could have
| made without those constraints.
| mitthrowaway2 wrote:
| I'm not the GP but I can recommend Bach's Partita in D minor,
| said to have been composed after returning from travel to
| find that his wife had died and been buried in his absence.
|
| https://youtu.be/VfwVim0EybY
|
| Brahms said of it: _" On one stave, for a small instrument,
| the man writes a whole world of the deepest thoughts and most
| powerful feelings. If I imagined that I could have created,
| even conceived the piece, I am quite certain that the excess
| of excitement and earth-shattering experience would have
| driven me out of my mind." _
| poly2it wrote:
| You should listen to Hilary Hahn's renditions of Bach's
| partitas and sonatas. She brings out the subtleties of Bach's
| composing beautifully, and the purity of his music is easy to
| appreciate in these solo pieces.
|
| https://inv.nadeko.net/playlist?list=PLor_18TcpRrxQmne5_SKRy.
| .. (YouTube proxy)
| lordleft wrote:
| Sure! When I think of why I love Bach, I often think of works
| where he demonstrates an ability to express often conflicting
| emotions at the same time. For example, in St. Mathew's
| Passion, there's a famous piece entitled "Mache Dich, Mein
| Herze" -- it's sung at a part where the followers of Christ
| are laying his body to rest, and somehow merges genuine
| despair with hope, representing the promise of resurrection.
| I think his ability to represent despair and hope at the same
| time is pretty extraordinary.
|
| Other pieces I love are the 3rd and 5th Brandenburg
| concertos, as well as "Wachet Auf":
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgXL_wrSPF0
|
| No shade if he still doesn't click with you. I'm just
| particularly ardent on the subject of Bach and baroque music!
| lo_zamoyski wrote:
| I presume you know Zelenka as well, a contemporary of
| Bach's (both knew each other and respected each other as
| composers).
| thinkingtoilet wrote:
| This is only scratching the surface but I will present one of
| his most famous pieces to people who might ask why something
| like this is said. Keep in mind this was written _300_ years
| ago. That 's _300. fucking. years. ago_. Think about how
| dated something from the 80s might sound. How modern does
| this sound? How completely universal is it 's beauty? To me,
| this could have been written today and still sound fresh and
| beautiful.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWoI8vmE8bI
|
| This piece is still deeply moving despite centuries of tastes
| changing. This is only barely scratching the surface of Bach.
| As a musician, when I listen to other great musicians speak,
| they all speak about Bach as the best. Of course that's
| subjective, and there are no 'wrong' answers on who is your
| favorite, but when the feeling is so nearly unanimous amount
| people who are often, frankly, contrarian and counter culture
| it says something.
| dylan604 wrote:
| > But one wonders what he could have made without those
| constraints.
|
| I had a friend that said if Mozart/Bach/et al had access to
| modern music production equipment, they'd all write
| psytrance. But it is just another example of "take great
| talent from long ago and put them in modern day" comparisons.
| PotatoPancakes wrote:
| Bach's most approachable music might be his cello suites.
|
| But also, I think there are two camps of fans of "classical
| music" (by which I mean music in the styles: Baroque,
| Classical, Romantic, Impressionist, etc). There are those who
| listen to the music, and those who play it.
|
| For the most part, those who only listen to music often
| prefer Romantic and Impressionist styles. From the moody and
| dramatic to the gentle and contemplative, these styles are
| very approachable to the untrained ear.
|
| But those who play an instrument (or sing in a choir) spend
| lots of time practicing and rehearsing and interpreting the
| music as it's written on the page. This extra time makes all
| of the little nuances of Baroque music truly come to life.
| The classic example is Bach's Crab Canon, which is a fine
| little piece of music... but once you realize that the whole
| thing is a palindrome, and you can actively appreciate how
| the same parts work in a forward and backward context, it
| becomes really interesting and pleasant.
|
| So if Bach doesn't do it for you, and you play an instrument,
| try diving into playing it yourself.
| reactordev wrote:
| I cut my teeth on Bach on Cello when I was 7. By the time I
| was in high school I could play all the instruments. I
| still don't consider Bach to be the genius everyone says he
| was. He was a nepo baby with a big purse. His brothers, his
| family, all musicians of note for prominent figures of
| society. However, his leaning on his long history of music
| within the family helped polish his work as structured
| which helped sell it. Now, Jean-Babtiste Lully was a
| character...
| Aidevah wrote:
| > _He was a nepo baby with a big purse._
|
| Interesting interpretation of "he was orphaned at 10 and
| left with nothing and had to go and live with his
| brother".
| PotatoPancakes wrote:
| If you don't like it, that's fine, I won't argue over
| taste. But your other descriptions of Bach's life deserve
| to be fact-checked.
|
| > He was a nepo baby with a big purse. His brothers, his
| family, all musicians of note for prominent figures of
| society. However, his leaning on his long history of
| music within the family helped polish his work as
| structured which helped sell it.
|
| This interpretation is not particularly historically
| accurate. Let's investigate:
|
| > He was a nepo baby with a big purse.
|
| Musicians of the baroque era weren't particularly wealthy
| or notable. Musical fame wouldn't come until the
| Classical era. And yes, music was his family trade, but
| that's how most trades went in that time. His parents
| both died before he turned ten, so he was mostly raised
| by his older brother. By all accounts they were not
| wealthy. So I think the term "nepo baby" is misleading,
| and "and "with a big purse" is simply incorrect.
|
| > His brothers, his family, all musicians of note for
| prominent figures of society.
|
| This is highly overexaggerated. JS Bach had two brothers
| who survived childhood, and neither was particularly
| "prominent." Most of his "notable family" were his
| children, especially CPE Bach.
|
| > However, his leaning on his long history of music
| within the family helped polish his work as structured
| which helped sell it.
|
| Bach's career was one of slow and steady growth. It
| doesn't appear that he leaned on his connections or
| family name much.
|
| Bach did get some widespread acclaim by the end of his
| life, but mostly as an organist, not as a composer. His
| compositions were mostly discarded and ignored for a
| whole century until Felix Mendelssohn revived interest in
| his compositions. The cello suites, for example, were
| lost for nearly two hundred years, and only re-discovered
| in the 1920's.
| reactordev wrote:
| He was known as an organist until the 18th century when
| someone decided to lump him in with the greats. His works
| were polished. Yes, he dedicated his life to music - but
| that's also where his tenure started. Baroque style
| borrowing from others and making "commercial" music of
| his day. He was a nepo baby by our standards. His older
| brother that raised him wasn't a Duke, but wasn't poor
| either. He went to the best schools. They all borrowed
| from each other in this age.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| He wasn't so "commercial" because he was doing more
| complex and countrapuntal music after it was falling out
| of fashion, and he never did an opera, which was all the
| rage.
| sbrother wrote:
| I think that's true about Bach's instrumental music, but
| his big sacred works like his Passions and the Mass in B
| minor are as "romantic" as the Baroque period gets. Like
| OP, I think of these works as basically the pinnacle of
| human artistic achievement. They somehow have all the
| nuance and complexity you're referring to -- while also
| telling a deeply emotional story, and just being heart-
| wrenchingly beautiful even if you don't know the story.
| tetraodonpuffer wrote:
| when it comes to Bach I am surprised more people don't
| mention pieces like this
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsxP-YjDWlQ (arioso from the
| cantata 156, here for oboe)
|
| which I think stands up just fine against pretty much any
| other classical piece baroque or not.
|
| Personally I have a very big soft spot for his organ works,
| as I play (badly) some organ myself, and among those I don't
| see the trio sonatas recommended nearly often enough (here is
| a live recital of all of them, which is super impressive)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK9irE8LMAU
|
| among those I probably enjoy the most the vivace of BWV 530.
| Other favorite pieces are the passacaglia and fugue
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVoFLM_BDgs the toccata
| adagio and fugue in C major
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klh9GiWMc9U (the adagio
| especially is super nice), but there's so many. Among
| organists I often come back to Helmut Walcha, and am always
| amazed at how he was able to learn everything just by
| listening, him being blind.
| bathMarm0t wrote:
| If you're going to give them the triosonatas, you gotta
| give them the good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOT
| tDYTc5JY&list=PLCDB42413B...
|
| Put on a good set of headphones and go sit in the corner.
|
| Also obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah392lnFHx
| M&list=RDAh392lnFH...
|
| The thing I appericiate most about bach is:
|
| you can play it fast.
|
| you can play it slow.
|
| you can play it with an ensemble of random instruments.
|
| you can play a single voicing all by itself.
|
| all of it screams "musical". which, if you do play say,
| Tuba, or one of the larger instruments, is a godsend, as
| most of your lines in other pieces will bore you to death.
| Tokkemon wrote:
| Nice to see the Zenph recording get some love. It's such
| a fascinating process they had to do. It's way better
| than the original Gould recordings with all his singing
| along.
| Tokkemon wrote:
| The Cantatas. All of them.
| cons0le wrote:
| Try this one on for size
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce8CDz9PUfs
| layer8 wrote:
| You should be aware that that's a hugely subjective thing.
| hearsathought wrote:
| > Bach is the greatest composer and perhaps the greatest artist
| in human history. Full stop.
|
| He's aight. Obviously you enjoy his music and that's fine. But
| have you experienced all the art from all cultures through all
| human history to make such authorative statements on such
| subjective matters?
| tgv wrote:
| This is a riposte at the level of "Then name all composers.
| Nanananana." Obviously, the answer to your question is going
| to be "no," but really a great amount of music is available
| to us, and everything that came before the Renaissance was,
| crudely put, simple music. So the commenter can be considered
| to be able to weigh Bach's merits against those of other
| artists'.
|
| IMO too, Bach is the greatest. There's really no-one who can
| so seamlessly merge content and form and achieve
| intellectually, musically and emotionally fulfilling results.
| lordleft wrote:
| I understand that a comment such as mine would rankle. I
| acknowledge that art is subjective, that there's no
| accounting for taste, etc. And yet, I don't really believe
| that, deep down. If I did, I'm not entirely sure how I could
| speak meaningfully to the differences between great and no so
| great art. Is War and Peace really as good as any other
| novel? Would it be possible for any two people to
| meaningfully communicate about art, if it really all boils
| down to mere instinctual taste? I think there must be more,
| even if I can't quite prove it. But I will acknowledge that I
| can't point to some objective rubric that obtains across all
| art when I say what I say.
| stevenjgarner wrote:
| Thank you and upvote to the OP for posting this. I love Bach
| and place him on a pedestal of my own.
|
| Personally I lack the physiological or cultural understanding
| of the significance of Tuvan Throat Singing [1] and why
| "Kongurei" (Konggurei / 60 Horses) is often described as the
| most beautiful and heartbreaking song in the Tuvan Throat
| Singing (Khoomei) repertoire.
|
| I also get that the Javanese gamelan orchestral masterpiece
| "Ketawang Puspawarna" [2] is widely cited as the candidate
| for the "most important, beautiful, and pivotal" global
| composition. So much so, that NASA included it on the Voyager
| spacecraft Golden Record in 1977 (side 2 track 2, together
| with 3 compositions of J.S. Bach). But I probably lack the
| aesthetic fabric to fully comprehend or appreciate its
| significance.
|
| [1] Tuvan Throat Singing,
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx8hrhBZJ98
|
| [2] Ketawang Puspawarna,
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irt2AsxYYnI
| reactordev wrote:
| That's debatable. Mozart was good too. But my real OG is
| Camille Saint-Saens. You want dark and moody? Light and fluffy?
| Dazzles and sparkles? He's your man.
| dabluecaboose wrote:
| _Danse macabre_ is a true masterpiece. Incredible composer.
| reactordev wrote:
| Carnival of the Animals is better...
|
| Aquarium was my sons childhood theme song
| stevage wrote:
| Organ symphony and piano concerto for me.
| reactordev wrote:
| Someone yells from the back "What about the cellos?" :D
| cons0le wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce8CDz9PUfs
| kulahan wrote:
| I think from a technical perspective, this is basically still
| true about Bach. It's not to say he has the most enjoyable
| music to listen to, but rather his music is built in a way
| that shows he was basically metagaming his music harder than
| anyone else ever has.
| stevage wrote:
| Why do you say metagaming? Did he really advance the art so
| far? I think he was just incredibly good at producing music
| within his specific parameters.
|
| (Said as a huge fan of his work. I spent a year playing
| essentially nothing but one of his fugues.)
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| Yeah he did hugely advance it.
|
| This didn't really get noticed in his own day, as they
| were busy dumbing things down into the classical period,
| but he was hugely influencial through rediscovery.
|
| Except for Italian humanists rediscovering Greek and
| Roman writings, I'm having a hard time thinking of an
| earlier instance of a chiefly posthumous legacy.
| stevage wrote:
| I don't care for Mozart but Saint Saens yes. The second
| movement of the organ symphony is utterly sublime.
|
| By a ridiculous stroke of luck I got to perform that piece as
| soloist once. Unforgettable.
| cons0le wrote:
| Nah Bach shits on Mozart. Mozart make extremely catchy music
| like Justin Beiber. I seriously do love mozart, but he merely
| wrote music. Bach weaved math into his music more than anyone
| before or after. His music sounds dense and more multi
| dimensional than mozart or saint saens. It really doesn't
| sound like he was trying to write beautiful music ( even
| though it is ) , it sounds like he was solving an equation
| and just writing out the answers as a harmonic sequence
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmsNH8t25ck - This guy is
| like 95 and still shredding on youtube
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1xJoVzoIQg
| reactordev wrote:
| See, music isn't just math, it's feel. I guess that's why I
| dislike him the way I do. It's too robotic.
|
| Truth is, they were ALL Justin Bieber. It's all pop music
| of the time.
| mrbonner wrote:
| And if you don't agree with me, I don't have to explain to you!
| xav_authentique wrote:
| Interesting to read that the complexity in his music is praised
| and seen as speaking to the intellect, whereas that is not the
| case when it comes to complexity in software.
| sambapa wrote:
| Why pay a dominatrix for a flogging when you can just stub
| your toe
| pianoben wrote:
| complexity in software is invisibly-preceded with
| "unnecessary", and usually indicates software that is
| difficult to maintain or even to verify its behavior. A
| really cool software architecture can scratch a similar itch
| as a good fugue, but that's not its typical function nor is
| it the way we usually engage with software professionally.
|
| Bach's complexity, incidentally, is seldom "for its own sake"
| - the pieces all fit together beautifully and without
| extraneous movement. Contrast that with some lesser works by
| later composers like Liszt, where you often get the sense
| that a given passage could be reduced or removed without
| harming the work.
| tgv wrote:
| I listened to them the other day, and I can't say I find them
| interesting additions to the Bach repertoire, certainly not in
| comparison to works that date to just a few years later.
| Matticus_Rex wrote:
| They can't all be bangers, and [plane-with-bullet-holes.jpg]
| dylan604 wrote:
| Maybe that's why he didn't sign them? Maybe he was on rough
| times, and just took a gig to write a studio jingle for some
| corporate presentation of the day just to get paid. Was able to
| pay rent, and keep working on his other work.
| kleiba wrote:
| They were early works.
| randogp wrote:
| Apparently the works were known since long time, not 'recently
| found' as the title suggests. The novelty is the authorship
| attribution to JSB.
| einrealist wrote:
| Could have listened live. Bummer. The recording does not do
| justice to the sound on site.
| tgv wrote:
| Here's another recording (with samples, but played well):
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tko39kUfk8o
| dust42 wrote:
| My absolute personal favourite is Toccata and Fugue played by
| organist Hans-Andre Stamm on the Trost-Organ of the Stadtkirche
| in Waltershausen [1]. Great videography, great organ and very
| expressive organist. From 3:28 on you can also see the foot work.
|
| [1]
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnuq9PXbywA&list=RDNnuq9PXby...
| Tokkemon wrote:
| I spent a long time on a Bach project that didn't really sell
| well, but I was very impressed with the final result.
|
| A system for buying arrangements of the Well-Tempered Clavier for
| any combination of instruments:
|
| welltemperedconsort.com
| barapa wrote:
| don't loving these
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