[HN Gopher] Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright
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       Nearly all UK drivers say headlights are too bright
        
       Author : YeGoblynQueenne
       Score  : 614 points
       Date   : 2025-11-18 14:11 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | Taek wrote:
       | I feel the same way in America, I think there should be stricter
       | regulations on how bright a car's headlights are allowed to be
       | for it to be street legal. Wouldn't mind having a cap on blue-
       | light levels in addition.
        
         | jghn wrote:
         | There are regulations. The problem is they're easy to game.
         | [1][2]
         | 
         | [1] https://www.theringer.com/2024/12/03/tech/headlight-
         | brightne...
         | 
         | [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42443406
        
         | nikanj wrote:
         | Usually in USA regulations apply to cars, but everyone drives a
         | light truck that's exempt from regulations ranging from
         | emission to pedestrian safety
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | This is false. Light trucks are definitely regulated.
           | Emissions regs do soften a bit for 3/4 ton and up trucks
           | (think F250 and up), but the ubiquitous F150 as well as other
           | half-tons, as well as mid-size trucks, are all very much
           | regulated.
        
         | jonasdegendt wrote:
         | It's much worse in America, in my experience. Much more
         | deviation in cars/sedans/trucks on the road, with different
         | road heights each, and MUCH more custom stuff on top.
         | 
         | I'm in Belgium and headlights don't generally bother me too
         | much, but a month in California recently had me going "no
         | wonder everyone has tints here."
        
           | englishrookie wrote:
           | I'm in the Netherlands and I DO find it bad. Probably also
           | has to do with my age (early fifties) - your eyes adjust with
           | more difficulty the older you get, it seems.
        
             | johnwalkr wrote:
             | I live close to you and I agree it's bad. But trust me,
             | it's way worse in North America (where I also drive
             | annually or so).
        
           | phito wrote:
           | I do find it bad in Belgium, mostly on big cars like SUVs.
           | Another reason for me to dislike them. Unfortunately they are
           | getting more and more common.
        
         | JonKF wrote:
         | In the UK it's exacerbated by our narrow roads, constant
         | drizzle, disrepair of our streets and highways and by the fact
         | that it gets dark by 4PM.
        
         | Lalabadie wrote:
         | The rising height of headlights in North America is compounding
         | the issue as well. At this point a good proportion of vehicles
         | have headlights even or higher than the roof on a sedan.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | At least in my state, there is a law that restricts the
           | location of headlights to between 22 and 54 inches from the
           | ground. 54 inches is quite tall, though, I think that a lot
           | of cars have roofs that are shorter than 4.5 feet. I'd love
           | to see a much lower upper limit.
           | 
           | I don't think there's a limit to how bright they can be. The
           | law limits the lights to "70 watts", which I believe is
           | intended to limit brightness but misses the mark. I bet the
           | law was passed back when headlights were incandescent.
        
             | hnuser123456 wrote:
             | LEDs are around 10x more efficient than incandescent bulbs.
             | A 100W incandescent equivalent LED bulb typically consumes
             | 10-12W. A 70W LED would put out as much light as 700W of
             | incandescent.
        
               | kayodelycaon wrote:
               | Given idea just how much more light this is:
               | 
               | The designed lighting for a room in my house is 2 x
               | 60-watt incandescent bulbs.
               | 
               | The equivalent wattage in 3 x 40-watt led bulbs is equal
               | to 2 or 3 fluorescent light fixtures in an office
               | building.
        
           | kubanczyk wrote:
           | I'd go as far as to say that the height is _the_ issue, and
           | it 's becoming global (although, yes, US is the leader).
           | 
           | It's ridiculous that an average SUV has headlights higher
           | than an average semi (my own experience) given the latter's
           | breaking distance is much greater.
        
         | alistairSH wrote:
         | There are a two things contributing to "headlights too bright"
         | in the US...
         | 
         | First, SUVs are really tall... If you're in a sedan (or worse,
         | a Miata) and get close enough to an oncoming SUV, even well-
         | aimed, legal lights are going to feel bright because they're
         | pointed down at you.
         | 
         | Second, there's a decent sized market for cheap, unapproved
         | HID/LED kits for older cars. They're often not aimed correctly.
        
           | pyr0hu wrote:
           | > Second, there's a decent sized market for cheap, unapproved
           | HID/LED kits for older cars. They're often not aimed
           | correctly.
           | 
           | This, so much this. I'm having no issue with new cars and
           | their LEDs. The aftermarket kits that are installed on 1994
           | Swifts and Passat B5s are not at all configured properly.
           | They just throw it on the car and "yay i can see more" and
           | sometimes I even think that they are using their high beams.
           | But no, it's just their incorrectly set up lights.
        
             | MSFT_Edging wrote:
             | > I'm having no issue with new cars and their LEDs
             | 
             | funny, its the opposite for me. brand new SUVs are by far
             | the worst offenders,
        
           | knome wrote:
           | It would be fantastic if it were possible to dictate a
           | headlight height for standard lights. just because your SUV
           | is twelve feet off the ground doesn't mean the lights need to
           | be positioned there.
        
           | fusslo wrote:
           | My 2024 outback has no 'high beams'. My low beams are the
           | same brightness as high beams. The only difference is the
           | field of view. I switch on the high beams on and height of
           | the beam increases, but intensity stays the same.
           | 
           | I feel awful about essentially high-beaming everyone unless
           | the road is flat.
        
             | yesb wrote:
             | They are often aimed too high from the factory
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | > The only difference is the field of view.
             | 
             | That's normal. Low beams are aimed low and often have a
             | illumination pattern reducing light over the median, high
             | beams are aimed high and uniform illumination. Very often,
             | they're the same intensity.
        
               | fusslo wrote:
               | Thanks, previously the only other car I had was a 1995
               | volvo which used additional bulbs when the high beams
               | were engaged. Intensity and field of view were increased.
               | The outback's headlights were very confusing to me since
               | I leapt through like 3 generations of cars
               | 
               | I wonder if it became normal around the time everyone
               | started complaining headlights were too bright
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | Most vehicles with dual-filament bulbs will turn off the
               | low beams while the high beams are on, but looking
               | around, I see it's mixed for vehicles with dual bulbs; US
               | standards don't require it one way or the other --- you
               | can meet the high beam requirement with separate bulbs or
               | with both bulbs in concert.
               | 
               | I think complaints about headlights really started when
               | different bulb types came out. HID, projector, and LED
               | bulbs all cast qualitatively different light than the
               | ubiquitous tungsten halogen bulbs that preceded them. A
               | lot of these put out a lot of blue, especially in the
               | fringes that I find very objectionable, and the lumen
               | output seems to have increased quite a bit, as well as
               | the spread.
               | 
               | Halogen bulbs were tightly constrained by power limits
               | and output requirements; but the other types can hit the
               | output requirements at well under the power limits, so
               | they can cast a wider field of view (which is nice), but
               | may need to be brighter in more of the the wider field of
               | view to hit the output requirements in the central
               | portion, and that additional brightness is more likely to
               | cause glare. Of course, all of our eyes have aged as well
               | which makes night vision more difficult, especially with
               | light variance. I remember my parents sometimes
               | complaining about other vehicle's lights when I was young
               | and thought everything was fine, but everyone was using
               | halogen lights back then.
        
             | bri3d wrote:
             | This is how almost all cars with HID bulbs work, because
             | HID bulbs can't be toggled on and off - they need time to
             | warm up and have a limited number of arc initiation cycles
             | before they wear out. So there's a mechanical shutter which
             | changes the cut-off distance. Generally, there is also a
             | leveling sensor which adjusts the cutoff when the car
             | starts up, to account for suspension sag differences and
             | load.
        
             | johnwalkr wrote:
             | High also refers to the lack of beam cut-off or masking[1],
             | not only the intensity. In UK English, the terms are "full
             | beam" and "dipped beam" to reflect this.
             | 
             | [1] For older US cars, it was more about intensity as the
             | masking sucked. I don't think it's that relevant to this
             | discussion but you can look up "DOT vs Euro headlights" if
             | it interests you.
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | > Second, there's a decent sized market for cheap, unapproved
           | HID/LED kits for older cars. They're often not aimed
           | correctly.
           | 
           | This is the biggest problem. Even talk SUV headlights from
           | the factory must meet standards for masking off light and the
           | angles at which they can illuminate.
           | 
           | But when people buy LED retrofit kits and jam them into
           | reflectors not designed for those bulbs, the reflectors don't
           | mask properly. Light spills everywhere.
           | 
           | I would bet that nearly all of the "headlights are too
           | bright" complaints are coming from people seeing LED retrofit
           | kits.
        
             | kubanczyk wrote:
             | Aren't there any checks for that?
             | 
             | In EU most DMV equivalents check headlights yearly to catch
             | illegal illumination envelopes (along with other safety-
             | related aspects, brakes and whatnot).
        
               | yesb wrote:
               | Only a handful of US states have any type of safety
               | inspection
        
               | eszed wrote:
               | The only one I've experienced (Massachusetts) wouldn't
               | catch any of what we're discussing in this thread. They
               | put it on the emission testing machine, walked once
               | around the car, maybe checked the brakes, and that was
               | it. It was in no way comparable to the UK's MOT test,
               | which is a proper inspection.
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | Headlight function (including aim) is on the MA vehicle
               | inspection: https://www.mavehiclecheck.com/motorists-
               | basicinfo
               | 
               | Whether it's done carefully or not, I doubt, though I did
               | fail one year for headlight lenses too cloudy, requiring
               | a fix and reinspection.
        
               | alistairSH wrote:
               | In theory, yes. But, it's state-by-state, enforcement at
               | drive-time is next to zero (unless the cop just wants to
               | hassle you), leaving it to either annual or time-of-sale
               | inspections that are easily gamed (slip the mechanic a
               | $20).
               | 
               | Heck, people will reinstall stock parts for inspection
               | then swap back to the illegal parts. Common with
               | emissions stuff as well.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | Most US states don't have an inspection regime. Of those
               | that do, it's often just for emissions (and with 2001+
               | cars, it's increasingly just confirm the check engine
               | light shows up in the light test and turns off when the
               | engine is started, plus check that the emissions computer
               | says ready for test). The driving public does not want to
               | pay for safety inspections.
               | 
               | But yes, if there was a safety inspection, it should
               | include verifying that lights function and that
               | headlights are aimed appropriately. A brightness test
               | might be too complex, but safety inspection would be the
               | place to do it.
        
             | cpburns2009 wrote:
             | How many people are really getting after market headlights
             | installed on their SUVs? There's too many vehicles with
             | blindingly bright lights for that to be the cause.
        
               | jcranmer wrote:
               | When my taillight burned out, I went to the local
               | autoparts store to get a replacement. The first light I
               | picked up had printed on the packaging, in not-terribly-
               | visible writing, "For Off-Road Use Only." I had to go
               | back and hunt longer for the light that was legal for
               | road use.
               | 
               | There's probably a decent contingent of people replacing
               | their lights with out-of-spec lights not realizing that
               | the lights are not actually road-legal.
        
               | potato3732842 wrote:
               | That's not how it works. They can write whatever they
               | want on the packaging. It's the final assembly that's
               | compliant. They're covering their ass in case you put
               | their 5W bulb in some application they've never heard of
               | where it technically fits but a 2.5W bulb was supposed to
               | be used or something.
               | 
               | It's like how aftermarket brake hoses all say "off road
               | use only" despite pretty much all of them vastly
               | exceeding the FMVSS for brake hoses.
        
               | yesb wrote:
               | The correct bulb will not say that, aftermarket LEDs do.
               | The light reflector housings are designed and tested for
               | specific bulb standards. There are LEDs which try to
               | output light from the same place as the filament in the
               | bulb they are mimicking. But there is no guarantee they
               | function properly, hence the warning and illegality.
               | 
               | If you swap one side and walk around your car, you may
               | see that they are significantly dimmer than the stock
               | bulbs from some or all angles. Or it may work fine. Often
               | times the aftermarket LED dual intensity tail/stop lights
               | have barely any difference between the two brightnesses
               | which is egregiously unsafe
        
               | thewebguyd wrote:
               | I used to think it was a lot of people doing it. I drive
               | an older car with what I call "normal" brightness
               | headlights, and the warm color too instead of the
               | annoying blue/white.
               | 
               | But then I had to rent a newer car, and it came stock
               | with super bright blue/white headlights. They were so
               | bright to what I was used to I had to double check the
               | high beams weren't on. The standard lights were as bright
               | as my old car's high beams.
               | 
               | Lights in newer cars are literally just that bright, and
               | I think it's a result of car safety culture being a
               | matter of "I only care of the car protects me" instead of
               | "the car should also be safe for others on the road as
               | well"
        
               | hn_acc1 wrote:
               | I mean, I have those types of lights on my car, but I am
               | VIGILANT about checking that they have a slight DOWNWARDS
               | slope (and I'm in a relatively low sedan to begin with).
               | There's a T-intersection near my house with a retaining
               | wall at the end - very convenient for checking the angle.
               | 
               | Even when I upgraded my old car to HIDs (because I could
               | barely see anything over the other cars), I checked over
               | and over to make sure I was low enough. Also, I ensure I
               | never light up the TOP crease of the trunk of any sedan
               | behind me. If I light up anything inside another car,
               | it's bad.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | > Lights in newer cars are literally just that bright,
               | and I think it's a result of car safety culture being a
               | matter of "I only care of the car protects me" instead of
               | "the car should also be safe for others on the road as
               | well"
               | 
               | This theory can't work on its own terms. It'd be hard to
               | make the car _less_ safe for the driver than by
               | automatically blinding oncoming traffic. Brighter
               | headlights aren 't a safety improvement _for anyone_.
               | 
               | They represent car manufacturers unilaterally making the
               | product worse for the sake of having a worse product,
               | just like the replacement of physical buttons with
               | touchscreens.
        
               | hn_acc1 wrote:
               | Most Teslas come mis-aimed from the factory and expect
               | their owners to "calibrate" them - they just never tell
               | them that.. Guess how many owners actually figure it out?
               | A vanishingly small percentage.. (or they're all assholes
               | who want to blind others on purpose)
        
             | yesb wrote:
             | Those are some of the most offensive lights but I wouldn't
             | say it's the biggest problem. SUVs and trucks often have
             | their headlights at the absolute highest point allowed and
             | it's not uncommon for drivers to install lift kits which
             | raise the lights even higher. If you're in a standard
             | sedan, headlights pointing into your eyes is pretty
             | unavoidable. Even a small vehicle that's oncoming and on a
             | steeper incline than you may shine their bright headlights
             | into your eyes.
             | 
             | There are no government agents going around inspecting all
             | the vehicles coming off the factory line. Anecdotally, my
             | friends Tesla has completely horizontal headlights from
             | new. I could see oncoming drivers faces illuminate and
             | wince in pain. A quick adjustment in the settings fixed
             | that, however the majority of drivers are ignorant of the
             | fact that headlights are usually adjustable.
             | 
             | Not sure there is any real solution other than going back
             | to halogen lights or requiring sophisticated anti-dazzle
             | systems.
        
             | esseph wrote:
             | No, new cars are actually just ass.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | > I would bet that nearly all of the "headlights are too
             | bright" complaints are coming from people seeing LED
             | retrofit kits.
             | 
             | Disagree. The "too bright" headlights are new cars. And
             | sedans as well as trucks SUVs.
             | 
             | Another big problem is that the lights are much closer to
             | "point source" than older headlights which were 4-6" in
             | diameter. A modern headlight is more like a 2" or smaller
             | diameter projector lens, which is even more blinding.
        
           | scythe wrote:
           | Aiming and beam restriction is not enough and cannot ever be
           | enough to prevent bright headlights from blinding people. It
           | only works when the road is flat. You introduce a hill or
           | even a speed bump and suddenly the headlight angle is zero.
           | Brightness has to be managed directly.
        
           | silisili wrote:
           | Well, and the fact they're just way brighter than ever. When
           | I was younger you could stare at the yellowish glow of a car
           | with headlights on and just not be blinded. We even used to
           | park several cars around a basketball court behind the goals
           | with headlights on at times to play at night.
           | 
           | Maybe I just got old or my eyes are peculiar, but that's no
           | longer the case. I cannot stare directly into the new
           | white/blue/whatever lights cars use at all without an
           | immediate reaction of being blinded.
           | 
           | In my opinion, we just don't need this level of lighting at
           | night. My vehicle lights up giant swaths of the fields next
           | to the road and I can see for a hundred+ feet in either
           | direction. I just don't need this level of HD quality night
           | vision, only just enough to see down the road a ways and
           | immediate side of it to check for objects/deer/people.
           | 
           | So now we have these retina scorching lights that are
           | generally fine if the road is 100% flat and the car brand
           | new. Any other situation ends up feeling like everyone is
           | pointing lasers into your eyes.
        
             | euroderf wrote:
             | > When I was younger you could stare at the yellowish glow
             | of a car with headlights on and just not be blinded.
             | 
             | Seconded. And I guess this is about the same thing as has
             | happened to streetlights ?
        
             | pwg wrote:
             | > When I was younger you could stare at the yellowish glow
             | of a car with headlights on and just not be blinded.
             | 
             | The older incandescent bulbs were a different color
             | temperature (more on the yellow side of the color spectrum)
             | and were not a point source (filament instead). Both
             | contributed to them not seeming quite so bright, even if
             | the net lumens was the same.
             | 
             | The newer LED's are much more on the blue end of the color
             | spectrum (automatically making the same lumen level appear
             | much brighter) and the LED's are much closer to point
             | sources, which further makes the result appear
             | significantly brighter even if the lumen level was the
             | same.
             | 
             | Couple the "harsh blue light" and "point source" with
             | "significantly more lumens" as well and you get modern
             | headlights that are painful to look towards, much less to
             | look directly at.
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | a third thing is some people drive with brights on all the
           | time, particularly in snow-bird seasonal communities, I've
           | noticed. when the seasonal people, many geriatric, are in
           | town, the vehicles driving day and night with bright lights
           | activated is noticable.
        
             | johnwalkr wrote:
             | Might be some mistaken confirmation bias there. Canadian
             | registered vehicles are required to have "daytime running
             | lights" while American cars are not. You might be seeing
             | low beams vs no beams, as opposed to high beams vs low
             | beams.
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | I've seen lifted Miatas...
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | The maximum brightness is already regulated in US and Europe.
         | US allows a lower brightness level.
         | 
         | Some car manufacturer (Ford?) recalled their cars to fix their
         | cars' headlight settings to match US regulations in the last
         | 6-8 months IIRC.
         | 
         | Also, light temperature has limits. I believe >4000K lights are
         | already road illegal in UK and EU. They are also recently
         | outlawed in my country, but there are many cars with after
         | market 5000K+ bulbs installed. They also don't conform to the
         | geometry of the bulbs these headlights designed to accommodate.
         | They are _painful_ to look at.
         | 
         | What needs to be done is a) Stricter regulation in retrofitting
         | older headlights with newer bulbs b) Regulating the amount of
         | light hitting the oncoming driver somehow. c) Stricter CRI and
         | light temperature regulations for the LED headlights.
         | 
         | I don't want to be blinded from light coming from behind and
         | front constantly at night, too.
        
           | mapt wrote:
           | Do we enforce it?
           | 
           | At all?
           | 
           | It isn't just retrofits that are a problem, it's brand new
           | cars.
           | 
           | It's not just about not wanting to be uncomfortably blinded
           | by lasers shooting into your eyes at night. (Lasers well
           | under 3000 lumens!). It's that this kills people. Frequently.
           | It's a form of assault with hundreds of dead victims and
           | thousands of injured victims a year.
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | I believe so, but I need more evidence in either direction
             | to give it a definitive answer, but why companies recall
             | cars to fix their brightness levels if they are not
             | enforced?
             | 
             | > It's not just about not wanting to be uncomfortably
             | blinded by lasers shooting into your eyes at night.
             | 
             | I mean, being uncomfortably blinded creates the risk of
             | being dead already. I believe I made it clear that it's
             | dangerous.
        
               | mapt wrote:
               | Looking further -
               | 
               | From a previous post on the subject
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42449068
               | 
               | > They measure at a certain point. Jason Cammisa points
               | it out pretty clearly in an episode of Carmudgeon, with
               | the money quote either here[0] or in the link direct to
               | YouTube here[1]:
               | 
               | > On a recent episode of the Carmudgeon Show podcast,
               | auto journalist Jason Cammisa described a phenomenon
               | occurring with some LED headlights in which there are
               | observable minor spots of dimness among an otherwise
               | bright field of light. "With complex arrays of LEDs and
               | of optics," he said, "car companies realized they can
               | engineer in a dark spot where it's being measured, but
               | the rest of the field is vastly over-illuminated. And
               | I've had now two car companies' engineers, when I played
               | stupid and said, 'What's the dark spot?' ... And the
               | lighting engineers are all fucking proud of themselves:
               | 'That's where they measure the fucking thing!' And I'm
               | like, 'You assholes, you're the reason that every fucking
               | new car is blinding the shit out of everyone.'"
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | Thanks for the info. I'm not surprised. _Of course_ they
               | are manipulating this test, too.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | This highlights a problem in getting your information
               | from a podcast or YouTube video, even when the presenter
               | seems like someone you'd find credible.
               | 
               | No, the regulation does not measure lights at a single
               | spot. The regulations are published and very easy to
               | find.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | I mean, Jason Cammisa is not some "YouTube person". He's
               | arguably his generation's Jeremy Clarkson.
               | 
               | e.g.: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHKCmmH-x9mI
               | btnKiNfg2...
               | 
               | He tells the stories, interviews with the people who
               | built these cars (if possible), gets and drives a copy of
               | the said car.
               | 
               | We're talking about a person who painstakingly perfects
               | the pronunciation of the brand and model names just
               | because he feels doing otherwise is not respectful for
               | the brand, model and people involved with the car.
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | Let's talk about specs. The spec[0] (pg 4) states that:
               | 
               | Photometers are placed at fixed locations on the test
               | track to record the visibility and glare illumination of
               | the test vehicle on each approach. To correct for changes
               | in illumination that are due to changes in vehicle pitch,
               | multiple photometers are used at each measurement
               | location to capture illuminance readings at different
               | heights. The illuminance readings are synchronized to the
               | vehicle position and pitch using a common GPS time
               | signal. The synchronized data are used to produce pitch-
               | corrected illuminance versus distance curves that are
               | used for the headlight rating. All data are processed
               | using the DIAdem software package distributed by National
               | Instruments. The processing scripts are available at
               | https://github.com/iihs-hldi.
               | 
               | This is a fixed receptor, fixed path, multiple approach
               | test and is susceptible to optimization of the
               | illumination map designed by the car manufacturers.
               | 
               | Moreover, test document states that:
               | 
               | Illuminance data are collected with Gamma Scientific
               | photometers (Part # U68401). The photometric sensors
               | provide a very close match to the spectral response of
               | the human eye. They are fitted with diffusers to reduce
               | the illuminance measurements for off-axis incidence
               | angles in accordance with Lambert's cosine law. The
               | sensors match the targeted cosine response to within 3
               | percent at angles up to 25 degrees, which is the maximum
               | angle between the test vehicle and sensors on the
               | sharpest curve (at distances greater than 10 m). The
               | sensor signals are passed through a low-pass filter with
               | a cutoff frequency of 35 Hz to allow for accurate
               | measurements of pulse width modulated light sources such
               | as LEDs. Each sensor is connected to its own
               | transimpedance amplifier board that has fixed gains to
               | yield a fast response while still minimizing linearity
               | errors in the range of illuminance values for which the
               | headlight ratings are assigned.
               | 
               | Again more places to optimize the headlight.
               | 
               | If the test finds the lights are "in-spec", and people
               | are increasingly unhappy/uncomfortable, then something is
               | wrong.
               | 
               | [0]: https://www.iihs.org/media/0e823704-32d1-4500-b095-1
               | 5d064d82...
        
               | potato3732842 wrote:
               | >He's arguably his generation's Jeremy Clarkson.
               | 
               | An entertainer who's keenly aware of what his audience
               | demographics are, what they want to hear, what'll piss
               | them off, and what he ought to be doing if he wants the
               | money to keep coming?
               | 
               | I'm not saying he's lying, but all these guys have an
               | incentive to say whatever it is they're gonna say in the
               | way that makes their audience as hysterical as possible.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | Camissa is not as unhinged as Clarkson, their most common
               | trait is their appreciation and knowledge of cars and how
               | they treat their histories.
               | 
               | Listening to Camissa makes me feel like I'm listening to
               | someone who appreciates all cars for being cars. He has
               | no biases and preferences like Clarkson (German cars
               | being cold, Italian cars being awesome, etc.).
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | You mean the same companies that measured the testing
               | benches used for emissions regulations and cheated on
               | them? It's not like there isn't a history of the car
               | companies doing foul shit here.
        
             | Aurornis wrote:
             | The regulations for manufacturers are enforced. There have
             | even been recalls for it.
             | 
             | LED retrofit regulations are not enforced. We should equip
             | safety inspection stations with ways to measure this, but
             | it's an expensive change to demand they do safety
             | inspections in a dark room when most safety inspection
             | businesses are small shops that don't have the room or
             | buildings to do it.
        
             | mnw21cam wrote:
             | Given how many cars I see on the road with only one
             | headlamp working, we have a _long_ way to go before
             | enforcing anything like this.
        
             | crooked-v wrote:
             | Yes, but only with preset measurements that car
             | manufacturers work around by literally putting dim spots in
             | headlights at specific angles (https://old.reddit.com/r/fuc
             | kyourheadlights/comments/1hefn86...).
        
         | OGWhales wrote:
         | We also need to be far more strict about enforcing properly
         | alignment, so many are pointed too high especially on larger
         | vehicles and pretty much always on anything that's been lifted
        
         | chrisBob wrote:
         | The US has clear regulations on headlights that limit the
         | number of Watts. That worked when everyone had halogen bulbs,
         | but doesn't fit with LEDs.
        
       | tonyedgecombe wrote:
       | Some people don't seem to know that you can adjust your
       | headlights from inside the car.
        
       | touristtam wrote:
       | Ooooh so I am not the only one to swear at those blinding
       | headlights? Interestingly (or not), I think there should be a
       | regulated height for the headlights all private cars; I drive a
       | B-segment type of car, and I find all those European SUVs have
       | their headlights right at my shoulder level meaning I will always
       | be subject to be blinded by this type of vehicle vs a similar
       | lower car. That goes for the vans as well.
        
       | nanna wrote:
       | Same for bicycle lights too, and street lights.
        
         | 4ndrewl wrote:
         | Nearly all UK drivers say bike lights are too bright?
         | 
         | Do you have a citation or was that an edgy culture war comment?
        
           | jabbywocker wrote:
           | I think it's his personal opinion, so no need to provide a
           | citation.
           | 
           | But don't let that stop you from starting your diatribe
        
           | egormakarov wrote:
           | I have a problem with many fellow cyclists here in Germany,
           | because they seem to use something that shouldn't be street-
           | legal as bicycle lighs (very annoying in the night on unlit
           | road)
           | 
           | Not sure what UK drivers would say about that, though
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | The sun as well, too bright.
        
         | jeffwass wrote:
         | I don't understand the seeming lack of regulation for flashing
         | bike lights.
         | 
         | I don't mean a simple "normal" flashing light, but the super
         | bright ones that are like a camera flash strobe going off 2-3x
         | per second which hurts your eyes and kills your night vision,
         | making it hard to see anything including the actual cyclist.
        
           | mnw21cam wrote:
           | It used to be law that a bicycle had to have a solid on light
           | front and back at night, and any extra flashing lights were
           | optional extras that didn't count, but they scrapped that law
           | several years ago.
        
       | macintux wrote:
       | Meanwhile, brake lights and running lights are frequently too dim
       | because of an aesthetic obsession with "blacking out" tail
       | lights.
        
         | kaelwd wrote:
         | Luckily that's illegal in my country, instead we have the
         | opposite problem where new cars have LED taillights that are
         | just as blindingly bright as their headlights.
        
         | sanex wrote:
         | Honestly I'm seeing the opposite. Some new cars, I THINK
         | Camry's, have taillights so bright it's blinding to wait behind
         | one at a stoplight. They don't need to shine just glow so you
         | can see them.
        
           | mnw21cam wrote:
           | I have never understood why everyone seems to immediately
           | forget everything in their driving lessons as soon as they
           | pass their test. When you're waiting at a red light, you're
           | meant to have the hand brake on (which does not illuminate
           | the brake lights), not your foot on the brake, unless you
           | know that the light is going to turn green very soon, or
           | you're trying to catch the attention of someone coming up
           | behind who looks like they haven't seen that you have
           | stopped.
        
             | delichon wrote:
             | > When you're waiting at a red light, you're meant to have
             | the hand brake on (which does not illuminate the brake
             | lights), not your foot on the brake, unless you know that
             | the light is going to turn green very soon
             | 
             | I was definitely not taught this as a US driving student.
             | Is this a UK thing?
        
               | mnw21cam wrote:
               | I can't see how it would be country-specific. How else
               | would you have any control of the forward motion of the
               | vehicle otherwise, especially when starting on an uphill
               | slope? You're meant to raise the clutch to the biting
               | point and apply some accelerator and release the
               | handbrake when you are confident that the engine will
               | prevent the car from moving backwards. Taking the foot
               | off the brake and hoping you can move it over to the
               | accelerator quickly enough doesn't give you that control.
               | Drifting backwards into the car behind you when setting
               | off is rather an embarrassing thing to do.
        
               | delichon wrote:
               | It does appear to be a UK thing. This is from the UK
               | Highway Code. I'm not finding a US equivalent.
               | 114 You MUST NOT use any lights in a way which would
               | dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including
               | pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders use front or rear
               | fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You
               | MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid
               | dazzling other road users (see Rule 226).            In
               | stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the
               | parking brake and, once the following traffic has
               | stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate
               | the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to
               | road users behind until the traffic moves again.
               | 
               | https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-
               | riders-103-to-1...
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | _In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply
               | the parking brake and, once the following traffic has
               | stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate
               | the vehicle brake lights._
               | 
               | I'm sure that might have been fine 30 years ago when cars
               | had actual handbrakes. I doubt most folks these days can
               | even find the little switch that activates it. Now it
               | comes off as a bunch of monkey business.
        
               | mnw21cam wrote:
               | Well found, though I'll also point out that the highway
               | code uses "MUST" and "should" in the same way as the RFCs
               | do.
        
               | macintux wrote:
               | I would wager that most modern cars that have a clutch
               | (which is <2% of the market in the U.S.) have hill
               | assist.
               | 
               | Certainly when I've been stopped on a hill with someone
               | directly on my bumper I've used the hand brake, but
               | that's vanishingly rare for me (probably because I live
               | in a very flat part of the country).
        
               | jansper39 wrote:
               | Depends on the car. Most ICE automatics will creep
               | forward, EVs will sit there until you hit the
               | accelerator, manual ICE cars (especially diesels) can be
               | held on the clutch just under the 'biting point' which
               | will stop the vehicle moving backwards.
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | _EVs will sit there until you hit the accelerator,_
               | 
               | Some do, some don't. Most I've driven try to replicate
               | the bug in ICE automatics that causes the car to creep
               | when your foot's not on the brake.
               | 
               |  _manual ICE cars (especially diesels) can be held on the
               | clutch just under the 'biting point'_
               | 
               | I, too, love the smell of burning clutch plates. Use the
               | brake, that's what it's there for.
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | _How else would you have any control of the forward
               | motion of the vehicle otherwise, especially when starting
               | on an uphill slope?_
               | 
               | By learning to drive a manual? Pardon the snark, but that
               | technique should be reserved for severely steep hills,
               | otherwise heel-toe or just be quick on the pedals. I live
               | in the Seattle area, where you either learn to drive a
               | manual on hills, or you get a punch card from the
               | transmission shop for clutch replacements. Even someplace
               | like going up the hill from 1st and Madison (picking a
               | random, extremely hilly intersection in Seattle), I'll
               | roll back maybe six inches. I'm nothing special, my wife
               | does the same thing. And if you live around Seattle and
               | you sit six inches off someone's rear bumper on a hill,
               | that's a "you" problem when they roll back on you.
        
               | pwg wrote:
               | > How else would you have any control of the forward
               | motion of the vehicle otherwise, especially when starting
               | on an uphill slope?
               | 
               | That only applies for manual/stick shift vehicles. Most
               | of the US drives automatic transmissions, and you don't
               | have to use the hand brake to start on an uphill slope
               | with an automatic transmission.
        
         | MSFT_Edging wrote:
         | I'm regularly blinded by some of the ultra-bright rear LEDs. I
         | drive a fairly small/low car so traffic at night is miserable.
         | I tend to avoid driving at night all together for the most part
         | now.
        
       | attila-lendvai wrote:
       | actually, this is on my list of signs that our civilization is
       | fscked...
        
         | Aachen wrote:
         | fsck report: some bad sectors are worse than others
        
       | wintermutestwin wrote:
       | Where are the AR driving glasses that automatically dim oncoming
       | headlights (and alert the driver to possible road hazards,
       | and...)?
       | 
       | Seems to me that all of this tech to create autonomous driving
       | could be also used to augment human driving.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | What if it suddenly shows a blue screen?
        
           | _joel wrote:
           | You crash, both systematically and through the windsceen.
        
           | DougRisk wrote:
           | They call it the Blue Screen of Death for a reason.
        
         | rawling wrote:
         | Eye tracking camera in the cabin, LCD film on the windshield,
         | it'd be like reverse matrix lights.
        
       | spike021 wrote:
       | It's also like this in America.
       | 
       | Earlier in the year I got a replacement rear-view mirror with an
       | anti-glare coating and it's paid dividends. It helps so much at
       | night on dark sections of road when newer cars with bright
       | headlights are around me. Finally decided to also replace my side
       | mirrors with ones that have a similar coating.
        
         | xeromal wrote:
         | My old 2003 Lexus has some sort of anti-bright headlight
         | feature for the rear view mirror that was a gamechanger when I
         | got it. I always notice when I drive another car.
        
           | spike021 wrote:
           | yeah, some cars have powered dimming. most have the little
           | tab/switch at the bottom you need to flick whenever you want
           | to use the dimmer angle. in my last car that would always
           | mess up my optimal rear view mirror angle and position, which
           | would get annoying and turn into a hassle.
        
       | everdrive wrote:
       | I understand that currently this is sort of a collective action
       | problem, but I'm a bit baffled why people ever thought they
       | needed brighter headlights in the first place. In the city, it's
       | so bright that you don't even need headlights to see whatsoever.
       | When cars started automatically dimming the dash via a light
       | sensor, there was actually a period of time where I totally
       | forgot to turn on my headlights because things were so well lit
       | -- even at night -- that I didn't need them whatsoever.
       | 
       | Out in the country, you still don't really need brighter
       | headlights. Other cars' headlights will always be visible and
       | they have reflectors, so it's not as if you'll struggle to spot
       | other cars. The road lines are actually reflective, so it's not
       | as if you'll struggle to see the road lines. And generally
       | speaking out in the country, there won't be pedestrian foot
       | traffic, so it's not as if you need the bright lights for them.
       | 
       | So who are they for? I think broadly people may just not be able
       | to avoid excess unless restricted by the facts of their
       | environment. Allow people a plethora of calories, they'll get too
       | fat. Allow them a plethora of entertainment, they'll drive
       | themselves insane. And somehow .. allow them too many bright
       | lights and they'll all just blind each other.
        
         | nikanj wrote:
         | Out in the country: moose and other animals
        
           | Lio wrote:
           | Moose are less of a problem in the UK than you might expect.
           | ;)
           | 
           | (I'll give you other animals though.)
        
             | Maxion wrote:
             | There are other countries than the UK.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | The story is about the UK. it would b ridiculous to set
               | UK brightness levels on the grounds of what would be
               | needed in Finland.
        
             | IncreasePosts wrote:
             | No thanks, I have no where to keep them.
        
         | jonahrd wrote:
         | Well.. deer, for one. It's much easier to spot animals crossing
         | the road with bright headlights than without.
         | 
         | I still also agree headlights are too bright, by the way, but
         | I'm just providing an example for your question
        
           | silon42 wrote:
           | Not necessarily... I had H4 or H1/H7 before, which were
           | dimmer, but the edge cutoff was much smoother...
           | 
           | With current car that has Xenon headlights (+ LED for day),
           | they have a much sharper cutoff at the edge, making it harder
           | to see pedestrians and other stuff near the road.
           | 
           | Probably the LED/laser headlights are even worse in this
           | aspect.
        
         | Lammy wrote:
         | > So who are they for?
         | 
         | They're so machines can see better, not so humans can see
         | better. There are so many more doorbell cameras, ALPR cameras,
         | fixed building cams, PTZ building cams, dash cams, external
         | vehicle cams, etc than ever before, and they all want to be
         | able to spy on you as effectively as possible even at night.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | Many places don't pay for reflective paint, unfortunately. Here
         | in Missouri they used it for a year or two and it was a vast
         | improvement... but then they cut the paint budget and now we're
         | back to invisible lines with even a small rain (no matter what
         | the brightness of the headlights).
        
         | Magnets wrote:
         | animals and other objects on the road, and potholes
        
         | jansper39 wrote:
         | Most of my driving is down small, unlit country roads and I'm
         | constantly coming across deer, sheep, people in dark jackets
         | (walking back from the pub) and people riding bikes
         | (occasionally with no lights on).
         | 
         | I'm quite thankful for bright headlights.
        
           | Maxion wrote:
           | Driving in the countryside, good headlights are *so* much
           | safer.
        
             | eertami wrote:
             | This is exactly what high beams are for, and even 20 year
             | old cars have very bright high beams that are plenty safe.
             | 
             | The problem referred to in the article is dipped beam
             | headlights being too bright and often too high, which are
             | making things less safe by dazzling other drivers and road
             | users.
        
               | robot-wrangler wrote:
               | > This is exactly what high beams are for,
               | 
               | Judging from comments in this thread, large numbers of
               | people are suggesting that they are _actually entitled_
               | to blind others because toggling back and forth is an
               | inconvenience for them, and /or the "smart" cars that are
               | auto-toggling high beams have left many drivers
               | completely ignorant that toggling is actually possible.
               | 
               | Related question, are cars that have completely removed
               | manually controlling high beams actually street legal?
        
               | darkwater wrote:
               | I'm pretty sure a technical solution can be found that
               | improves normal headlight visibility compared to non-
               | xenon lamps from 10-15-20 years ago WITHOUT blinding
               | incoming traffic.
               | 
               | High beam were always blinding, and unless you are
               | completely alone you will not use them, even in the
               | middle of a rural area, so they are out of the equation.
        
             | kedean wrote:
             | _Good_ headlights are. The modern levels of brightness do
             | not qualify as good headlights. Modern headlights become
             | unsafe as soon as any other person is on the business end
             | of them, due to the fact that they can no longer see
             | properly. It puts other vehicles at the risk of crashing
             | from being blinded, both cars and smaller vehicles like
             | bicycles.
        
         | DiogoRolo wrote:
         | In the countryside, outside highways, the pain is usually non-
         | reflective or just in such a bad state that you can't even see
         | it.
         | 
         | Usually bright headlights / highbeams are useful in there.
        
         | thedanbob wrote:
         | > And generally speaking out in the country, there won't be
         | pedestrian foot traffic, so it's not as if you need the bright
         | lights for them.
         | 
         | Animals, specifically deer. That said, you can use brights when
         | no other cars are nearby, and when there is a car coming its
         | worth a few seconds of extra risk to not blind the other guy
         | and put _him_ at risk.
        
           | ComputerGuru wrote:
           | > its worth a few seconds of extra risk
           | 
           | There really isn't that much increase; when there's another
           | driver then you both have the combined the light output of
           | both headlights, coming from two different directions.
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | Once we figure our deer wasting disease, we need to start the
           | breeding program for reflectorized deer. It'll solve a lot of
           | problems.
        
           | alt227 wrote:
           | Why does nobody think that if these lights are dazzling
           | oncoming drivers, they are also dazzling these precious deer
           | and pedestrians people keep saying they need to see so well.
        
         | stuaxo wrote:
         | Lights in other settings that were upgraded to LEDs became much
         | brighter: night clubs usef to be mostly dark for instance.
         | 
         | I don't think it happened through any plan, if anyone was
         | looking at the specs, they probably just thought "bigger number
         | better".
        
           | chipsrafferty wrote:
           | Nightclubs are still too dark. Streets are too bright.
        
         | linuxftw wrote:
         | Low beam lights were previously much dimmer and angled much
         | lower. Rural driving absolutely required high beams.
        
         | gadders wrote:
         | >>Out in the country, you still don't really need brighter
         | headlights. Other cars' headlights will always be visible and
         | they have reflectors, so it's not as if you'll struggle to spot
         | other cars. The road lines are actually reflective, so it's not
         | as if you'll struggle to see the road lines. And generally
         | speaking out in the country, there won't be pedestrian foot
         | traffic, so it's not as if you need the bright lights for them.
         | 
         | Have you actually driven in the country?
         | 
         | Out in the country where I live, some roads are single track
         | with no painted lines, cats eyes or street lights. There is
         | occasional foot traffic, sometimes not wearing reflective gear.
         | There are also animals, and 6" deep potholes that I would
         | rather not hit as well.
        
         | robot-wrangler wrote:
         | > I understand that currently this is sort of a collective
         | action problem,
         | 
         | There's something really obnoxious and antisocial about this
         | that makes me really mad. Test your lights on yourself, people.
         | If your manufacturer did something stupid here it's
         | unfortunately on you to fix it. Usually the mentality of "got
         | mine, fuck everyone else" is self-destructive but maybe not
         | obviously so because cause/effect are a few steps away from
         | each other. But if you blind everyone else on the road so you
         | can see better then it's kind of endangering you directly and
         | immediately!
         | 
         | This is a huge issue in US western states especially, since
         | they are full of long dark drives. You'll literally be blinded
         | for several seconds if you encounter another car even if you're
         | averting your eyes. Bad but not horrible if it's 1/10 of chance
         | encounters that are antisocial, but it's been getting worse for
         | years and odds are now much closer to 1/2.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | > _there won 't be pedestrian foot traffic_
         | 
         | You think kids aren't running across the street at night out in
         | the country? Chasing a soccer ball?
         | 
         | There are all sorts of things you need to be able to see to
         | avoid. People, deer, fallen branches, large roadkill, garbage
         | cans blown into the road by the wind, the list goes on and on.
         | Not to mention spotting dangerous icy patches at night in the
         | winter.
         | 
         | I take it you don't really drive in country? Which is fine, but
         | it's good to be aware of the many potential hazards.
        
           | graemep wrote:
           | > You think kids aren't running across the street at night
           | out in the country? Chasing a soccer ball?
           | 
           | Only in well light areas, usually with a low speed limit too.
           | 
           | > People, deer, fallen branches, large roadkill, garbage cans
           | blown into the road by the wind, the list goes on and on.
           | 
           | Of those only people are at all common, and not on large
           | roads. I have never even seen roadkill large enough to be
           | unsafe to drive over.
           | 
           | I have only once come close to hitting any of these on
           | country roads in the UK. I have been dangerously dazzled by
           | oncoming bright headlights all the time.
        
             | Leif24 wrote:
             | >> You think kids aren't running across the street at night
             | out in the country? Chasing a soccer ball?
             | 
             | >Only in well light areas, usually with a low speed limit
             | too.
             | 
             | Not something I've commonly seen when driving, but
             | certainly as a kid out in the country I ran around in the
             | dark near the road.
             | 
             | >> People, deer, fallen branches, large roadkill, garbage
             | cans blown into the road by the wind, the list goes on and
             | on.
             | 
             | >Of those only people are at all common, and not on large
             | roads. I have never even seen roadkill large enough to be
             | unsafe to drive over.
             | 
             | >I have only once come close to hitting any of these on
             | country roads in the UK. I have been dangerously dazzled by
             | oncoming bright headlights all the time.
             | 
             | I've seen all of these multiple times (tbf the trash cans
             | were in the city, not the country) out in upstate NY and
             | rural Indiana and Kentucky. Maybe trees don't drop branches
             | over in the UK, but over in the US that is certainly a
             | hazard to be expected during and after severe weather.
             | 
             | To be clear, I agree that excessively bright running lights
             | and people who can't seem to properly transition between
             | hibeams and lowbeams are problem. I just don't agree with
             | the sentiment from the gp that "[o]ut in the country, you
             | still don't really need brighter headlights."
        
               | dboreham wrote:
               | I've lived in Montana for 25 years, a place where there
               | are deer (and moose and bears) rampaging all over the
               | place. People hit them all the time. But the only place I
               | ever hit a deer with my car was North Yorkshire.
        
             | darrenf wrote:
             | > _Of those only people are at all common, and not on large
             | roads. I have never even seen roadkill large enough to be
             | unsafe to drive over._
             | 
             | I moved from London out to the sticks ~4.5 years ago and
             | since then have seen deer, pigs, and cows multiple times
             | each year on the larger roads around where I now live.
             | Animals roam. People leave gates open or damage fences. It
             | happens. Plus the named storms frequently bring trees down
             | onto or even across roads.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | >> _You think kids aren 't running across the street at
             | night out in the country? Chasing a soccer ball?_
             | 
             | > _Only in well light areas, usually with a low speed limit
             | too._
             | 
             | It would certainly be safer if that were true, but it's
             | not. Kids play in front yards with zero street lighting all
             | the time. And drivers speed.
             | 
             | >> _People, deer, fallen branches, large roadkill, garbage
             | cans blown into the road by the wind, the list goes on and
             | on._
             | 
             | > _Of those only people are at all common, and not on large
             | roads._
             | 
             | I think there are a lot of places you haven't driven. In
             | parts of the US, deer are _everywhere_. And who is limiting
             | the subject to  "large roads"? Headlights are used on _all
             | roads_.
             | 
             | Also, we drive defensively because of the _uncommon_ things
             | we encounter. It only takes one collision to potentially
             | kill you or someone else. Over a lifetime of driving,
             | "uncommon" things have an unfortunate tendency to still
             | happen at some point.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | > Kids play in front yards with zero street lighting all
               | the time
               | 
               | Street lighting is consistent enough to be used to define
               | built up areas for speed limits in the UK.
               | 
               | > in parts of the US, deer are everywhere.
               | 
               | which is not relevant to a discussion about car
               | headlights in the UK
               | 
               | > we drive defensively because of the uncommon things we
               | encounter
               | 
               | but its not worth making a common situation riskier to
               | make an uncommon one safer.
        
         | shortercode wrote:
         | Assuming that the lines on the road are in good condition or
         | even exist. Uneven roads, potholes, and corners/junctions with
         | no signage can all be a challenge is poor conditions with old
         | style headlights ( our 2 cars have old and new style lights
         | respectively ).
         | 
         | That being said while I don't struggle much with the glare from
         | oncoming headlights I find that visibility beyond the oncoming
         | vehicle can be severely limited by the bright light. This often
         | causes me to slow down and squint to be careful of any dangers
         | beyond the vehicle.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | What road lines?
         | 
         | There are plenty of country side roads in Europe that really
         | dark with normal medium lights.
         | 
         | Now I fully agree that full intensity is too high as shipped in
         | most cars.
        
         | delaminator wrote:
         | > Out in the country, you still don't really need brighter
         | headlights.
         | 
         | I guess you don't actually drive at night in the countryside
         | then.
         | 
         | You need lights to see where the road is, not where pedestrians
         | might be - on none existent footpaths
        
           | everdrive wrote:
           | I live in the woods in the northeast US, and also grew up in
           | the 80s-90s in a very rural area and I've owned a number of
           | cars when I was young, some with comically dim lights.
           | 
           | You really don't need the bright lights. You never have. Slow
           | down, look for movement, and use your brights intelligently.
        
             | lan321 wrote:
             | Slow down is kind of the general tip, but I find it kinda
             | BS. I can drive slowly focusing on the bushes on the way
             | to/from work in bumfuck nowhere, or I can get some beacon
             | of god aux LEDs for cheap and turn night into day.
        
               | everdrive wrote:
               | > or I can get some beacon of god aux LEDs for cheap and
               | turn night into day.
               | 
               | But only if you don't care about other drivers on the
               | road. And of course, how many of those other drivers on
               | the road care about who they're impacting? A lot of them
               | have your attitude.
        
               | afavour wrote:
               | "I can get some beacon of god aux LEDs for cheap and turn
               | night into day" they said, in a topic entitled "Nearly
               | all UK drivers say headlights are too bright"
        
               | 867-5309 wrote:
               | don't forget "bumfuck"
        
               | alt227 wrote:
               | > I can get some beacon of god aux LEDs for cheap and
               | turn night into day.
               | 
               | And piss all other drivers off around you. This is the
               | whole point of the thread you are posting in, but then if
               | people cant realise or even care when they are blinding
               | people I dont expect them to have fully read or
               | understood the thread article.
        
             | macNchz wrote:
             | Growing up in rural New England it seemed that people were
             | constantly hitting deer with their cars--slowing down is
             | obviously a good idea, but every additional foot of
             | headlight distance certainly helps for spotting the glint
             | of an eyeball on the side of the road.
        
             | 4MOAisgoodenuf wrote:
             | In a densely wooded area, no. Your sight line is naturally
             | blocked by trees, so a farther throw of light would be
             | wasted
             | 
             | In more open areas it can be quite helpful to have greater
             | throw and flood illumination.
             | 
             | In the American Midwest, being able to spot ice patches or
             | deer on the interstate with your brights is quite helpful.
             | 
             | Normal driving lights have no need for the intensity they
             | have today though
        
             | technothrasher wrote:
             | I also live in the woods in the northeast US, also grew up
             | in a very rural area (in the 70s-80s), and I _still_ own a
             | few 70s and 80s cars with comically dim lights. Yeah, they
             | 're not good. 1) They're very noticeably worse comparing
             | them back to back to modern cars, and 2) my eyes are no
             | longer young. Can I drive with them? Sure. Is it less safe?
             | You bet.
        
             | delaminator wrote:
             | we're not talking about the northeast US
             | 
             | and sure, you don't _need_ to drive over 20mph on a 60mph
             | limit road ...
        
           | redwall_hp wrote:
           | A lot of smaller US cities also have areas with no lighting
           | and worn-out lines, which contrast with brightly lit areas
           | and suddenly you're basically blind if your lights are too
           | dim. Couple that with a wet road, which reduces visibility,
           | and it can be hard to see where to drive.
           | 
           | Then we have pedestrians walking with no sidewalks or
           | crosswalks, because city planning actively hostile to people
           | walking.
        
           | hampowder wrote:
           | The parent is talking about needing _brighter_ headlights,
           | not headlights in general.
        
           | barbazoo wrote:
           | I just realized I bet it's sometimes a speed issue. I don't
           | need bright lights, maybe because I'm a slow driver.
           | 
           | Drive faster and you have to have brighter lights shining
           | farther into the distance to be able to see at least a couple
           | seconds ahead.
        
             | taeric wrote:
             | And, notably, those couple of seconds can be key to seeing
             | far off wildlife that may decide to cross the road.
        
               | alt227 wrote:
               | Also notably, so bright they burn the retinas of said
               | wildlife and any drivers or pedesttrians approaching you.
        
               | taeric wrote:
               | Well, the new stupid bright lights, yes. The idea of
               | brights in general, though, not quite as bad.
               | 
               | I'm also not clear why someone would leave brights up
               | once they are close to something that has eyes. The idea
               | is you can see them further away. But, as you get close,
               | drop the lights.
        
             | graemep wrote:
             | I think part of the problem is people drive at the speed
             | limit regardless of conditions. If its dark and wet you
             | really should not drive at the same speed as when its sunny
             | and dry. If you are unfamiliar with a twisty road you need
             | to slow down. If there are more pedestrians around than
             | usual you need to slow down.
        
               | Loughla wrote:
               | I agree with you 100%. The speed limit isn't seen as a
               | limit, culturally, in the united states from what I can
               | tell. Anymore, it's treated as the minimum socially
               | acceptable speed on roads.
        
           | lozenge wrote:
           | Well this is why headlights have dipped beam and full beam.
           | The issue is the dipped beam is getting as bright as the full
           | beam used to be, and is mounted higher on the car as well.
        
           | jpfromlondon wrote:
           | I do, and old school yellow high-beams were plenty on a 205
           | to do 80+mph down b-roads back in the 00's, I would happily
           | go back to that if it meant I could avoid being blinded every
           | ten minutes.
        
             | danw1979 wrote:
             | I'd be happy with other drivers just turning their main
             | beam off slightly faster than 5 seconds after they have
             | seen me.
        
               | jpfromlondon wrote:
               | or at all, but when they're higher than you, or climbing
               | a hill a casual blinding is unavoidable with the current
               | laser-based headlights.
        
               | alt227 wrote:
               | Id be happy if most drivers just realised they have a
               | dial which adjusts the angle of their headlights and used
               | it accordingly.
        
           | graemep wrote:
           | I need to drive through the countryside to get to other
           | towns.
           | 
           | A lot of it is A roads - few pedestrians and they are on
           | pavements.
           | 
           | On country lanes, I think traditional lights are usually
           | bright enough. if not, slow down at might.
        
           | danw1979 wrote:
           | Not to be pedantic but you do need to be able to see
           | pedestrians at night too, who can legally walk on country
           | roads on either side, without reflectors or illumination.
           | 
           | It's the car drivers responsibility to not mow pedestrians
           | down wherever or whenever they are walking.
        
             | krona wrote:
             | Not least because hitting a person at 50mph on a country
             | lane will cause serious amounts of damage to your car and
             | ruin your day!
        
             | delaminator wrote:
             | My point was that it is not pedestrians I worry about
             | walking on the carriageway on a 60mph limit road, it's the
             | trees
        
           | Frost1x wrote:
           | It's not what's meant by pedestrians but usually you're also
           | looking for wildlife, like deer, that you could hit.
        
           | mingus88 wrote:
           | All cars in the U.S. used the same headlights up until the
           | early 80s. You could literally walk into the auto parts store
           | and buy a headlight to replace yours, regardless of make and
           | model
           | 
           | Somehow we all did ok back then with standard high/low beams
           | from lights which are very dim and warm compared to the harsh
           | white LED lights of today
           | 
           | It seems to me that this is just another example of the arms
           | race of modern cars. You need a big SUV to feel safe on a
           | road full of SUVs and trucks. You need an array of dazzling
           | LEDs to compete with every other car out there. And we all
           | lose.
        
             | biofox wrote:
             | The red queen effect. We'll end up all driving flood-lit
             | bulldozers.
        
             | greedo wrote:
             | "Somehow we all did ok..."
             | 
             | This is an anecdotal fallacy. We also did fine without
             | seatbelts, with parents who smoked, with open containers in
             | cars, with DDT sprayed in our neighborhoods. Until we
             | realized that was crazy.
             | 
             | Not all improvements are without side effects. Increased
             | headlight quality is one of those.
        
               | potato3732842 wrote:
               | These same exact 1980s headlights were used just fine on
               | 2000s Fords
               | 
               | https://static.cargurus.com/images/forsale/2021/04/17/22/
               | 52/...
               | 
               | Just because everyone smoked in restaurants doesn't mean
               | they didn't have other things figured out.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | > All cars in the U.S. used the same headlights up until
             | the early 80s.
             | 
             | Hey, there were several models.
             | 
             | For a long time you had the two filament bulbs vs single
             | filament. And then around the late 70s, you could have
             | circle or rectangle, so there were 4 bulbs to choose from!
             | Tremendous variety.
        
         | Aachen wrote:
         | Despite the "I need this in the sticks" responses here, I think
         | the most common answer is the silent group that didn't ask for
         | it but it just comes with the car. This group is silent anyway,
         | they didn't have the issue/need but also won't complain about
         | the extra light, whereas a few other people did and so you can
         | just make 1 size fits all with no repercussions (besides
         | perhaps selling more replacement lamps)
        
           | Tox46 wrote:
           | If i may add, they won't complain because the headlights of
           | their cars aren't the ones that are flashing directly at
           | their own face. To them the problem will always be the
           | other's cars having the lights too bright.
        
           | doctorshady wrote:
           | In the early 2020s, I was driving at night in rural America
           | on a daily basis in a nineties car with pre-LED yellow
           | lights. There were plenty of animals in the road, and I never
           | felt they were hard to see or stop for, even with no street
           | lights.
           | 
           | I really don't know what everyone's talking about when they
           | swear they _need_ all this extra light.
           | 
           | What I will say is with newer cars where the center console
           | had an LCD screen and far more lighting, it did feel
           | genuinely dangerous to drive through these same areas. Any
           | real solution to this should start with all this being
           | adjustable (I assume it actually is in most models?), or even
           | far dimmer in its stock state with your lights on.
        
           | alt227 wrote:
           | I have always lived in the sticks and I hate these new
           | headlights, you could always see fine with the old ones on a
           | dark country lane.
        
             | hollerith wrote:
             | I wonder whether some fraction of the population has shit
             | night vision and whether this fraction's preferences are
             | driving this trend to too-bright headlights.
             | 
             | That would explain scenes on TV and in movies with very low
             | "key", which to me are awful and frustrating because I
             | cannot see anything, but maybe that is just how the (dimly-
             | lit) scene would actually look in real life to the
             | cinematographer or editor responsible for the visual design
             | of the scene.
        
         | xxs wrote:
         | >Out in the country, you still don't really need brighter
         | headlights.
         | 
         | Animals and pedestrians (along with pot holes) are the prime
         | reason.
        
         | widforss wrote:
         | Have you seen what a moose can do to a car?
        
         | skeletal88 wrote:
         | I don't need bright lights, most people don't and we havent
         | done anything to get them, they just come with the car for most
         | people.
        
           | alt227 wrote:
           | You bought a car which had them, that was a choice.
           | 
           | I have never bought a car with extreme bright headlights, and
           | I never will.
        
         | thedougd wrote:
         | Smartphones, infotainment systems, and large LCDs in the cabin
         | are killing drivers' night vision.
        
           | iso1631 wrote:
           | I find it easier to drive my wife's modern car with all that
           | than my 2005 car which has barely any internal lights (dim
           | light around the speedo, dim light on the radio)
           | 
           | You're not wrong, but it's a minor contribution at most.
        
             | alt227 wrote:
             | Thats probably because it has ridiculously bright
             | headlights to compensate.
        
         | tw04 wrote:
         | You must not live where there's wildlife... I can tell you it's
         | basically impossible to see deer at night without your brights
         | on until you're basically hitting it.
        
           | barbazoo wrote:
           | This can also be adjusted to by reducing speed.
        
             | lawn wrote:
             | You have to go so slow that you double the length of the
             | trip, which is a big deal when a 2 hour trip turns into a 4
             | hour ordeal.
        
             | DannyBee wrote:
             | Sure but you should be able to safely drive the speed limit
             | under normal (Ie not pouring rain, snow, etc) conditions.
             | Night is a normal condition.
        
               | tikkabhuna wrote:
               | Bear in mind that the UK has a "national speed limit" of
               | 60mph for much of the countryside. This is very much a
               | limit, a maximum, and you're expected to drive to the
               | conditions of the road. If it's perfect weather
               | conditions and twisting roads not wide enough for 2 cars,
               | you shouldn't be driving at the speed limit.
        
               | steve_gh wrote:
               | Absolutely. The legal speed limit is 60 in the country -
               | on any road not marked with a lower speed limit. This
               | means that legally, you can drive at 60mph down a twisty
               | single track road with 1.5m earth and rock banks topped
               | with hedges.
               | 
               | You would be an irresponsible nutter with a death wish to
               | try through! And if you crashed, "I was driving at /
               | under the speed limit" wouldn't wash - you would be
               | charged with Driving without Due Care and Attention, or
               | Dangerous Driving depending on the consequences of the
               | crash.
        
               | tomatocracy wrote:
               | Driving too fast for the conditions (but within the
               | limit) would usually be considered Driving without Due
               | Care and Attention even if you don't crash (although the
               | likelihood of anyone being around to enforce it on a
               | deserted country road is pretty low).
        
               | potato3732842 wrote:
               | That's not the purpose of that law. That's just the
               | pretext they use to get the useful idiots to endorse it.
               | The purpose of that laws is if you do something stupid
               | but below the speed limit and not violating any other
               | specific laws they've got something to nab you for.
        
               | singron wrote:
               | Having driven in the US and UK, this is a significant
               | difference between the two. In the UK, you might
               | sometimes drive 30 under on a road that is nominally 60
               | mph. In the US, that road would have a specific posted
               | speed limit that is safe to drive. US roads are also more
               | consistently designed for constant speed or have
               | additional advisory speed limits for curves. You can
               | nearly always drive as fast as the number on the sign
               | unless there is some additional hazard.
        
               | alt227 wrote:
               | I have not yet found a road in the UK where i couldnt
               | safely drive the maxiumum speed limit.
        
               | 1718627440 wrote:
               | No. The speed limit is the maximum for a dry road, in the
               | summer during the day.
        
               | barbazoo wrote:
               | Where I live there are speed _limits_ but rarely
               | _minimum_ speeds, only on divided highways as far as I
               | know. Everyone is different, some people just aren 't
               | comfortable driving the speed limit at a given moment. We
               | should literally back off those folks, they're not what's
               | making traffic horrible in my experience.
        
           | everdrive wrote:
           | We have quite a lot of wildlife around us; deer, moose,
           | coyotes, hedgehogs, pheasants, nearly non-stop turkeys. It
           | really hasn't been an issue.
           | 
           | It's not as if you cannot see with normal, old-fashioned
           | headlights. That's what I'm confused about; the problem with
           | headlights at night is that they have a distance. So rather
           | than being unable to see, what you actually get is less
           | reaction time. ie, rather than seeing 'til the next hill or
           | turn, you can really only see to the end of your headlight
           | beam. Ultrabright headlights actually make this worse; you
           | have no night vision whatsoever due to their brightness, and
           | and anything outside of the beam is completely invisible.
           | This isn't as much of a problem with old fashioned headlights
           | as they don't trash your night vision quite as badly. In any
           | case, the problem is that you have less time to react due to
           | only being able to see within the beam of the light -- and
           | brightness really does not affect this.
           | 
           | This is totally aside from that fact that the moose threat is
           | NOT that they're in the road 1000 feet ahead of you and it's
           | too dark to see -- it's that they come right out of the woods
           | before you have time to react -- and brightness, again, does
           | not actually affect this.
           | 
           | Moose aren't invisible to a normal headlight.
        
             | DannyBee wrote:
             | I agree with all of this. For wildlife, using long distance
             | IR or something to augment makes more sense than higher
             | brightness normal lights , given how falloff works.
        
           | DannyBee wrote:
           | They should just use cameras with the ir cut filters removed
           | and let you superimpose the result onto the windshield.
        
         | catlikesshrimp wrote:
         | We needed some brighter lights before the current craze.
         | 
         | When you aren't using strong lights your pupils open more. Now
         | we need much brighter lights than traditionam because the
         | lights from other cars leave you blind for too long.
         | 
         | Context: I live in 3rd world country with non lit interurban
         | roads. People must to walk and ride bicycles, only they do
         | irresponsibly without anything reflective, maybe only with
         | their cellphone screens lit because they are using it. I
         | sometimes reduce speed to 30 km/h when a car comes from the
         | opposite direction.
        
         | iso1631 wrote:
         | In the country you need decent lights on the road to spot the
         | potholes, animals, and people. And of course you get pedestrian
         | traffic, especially at this time of year when people are
         | walking dogs after getting home from work.
         | 
         | The problem isn't as much bright lights though, it's lights
         | shining in your face.
         | 
         | 1) "auto dipping" headlights don't detect oncoming traffic
         | 
         | 2) "matrix" headlights don't detect oncoming traffic
         | 
         | 3) Headlights are adjusted to point as high as possible, on
         | cars with ridiculous high headlights, so although they are
         | pointing "down" (just), they are pointing into your car
         | 
         | 4) My 2005 car's headlights are yellow. Modern ones are white.
         | If I drive with full beam on, I don't even get flashed. Yellow
         | isn't as dazzling.
         | 
         | Of course it's all rather meaningless, nobody _chose_ brighter
         | lights
        
         | DeathArrow wrote:
         | I have poor night vision, many times there are no road marks at
         | all. I need to see whether the road continues straight, goes
         | left or right, so I need decent headlights.
        
         | k1rd wrote:
         | I remember light used to be much paler and became brighter
         | around the 2010. just go drive in an old car (20+ years) and a
         | new car.
         | 
         | You are right also especially that there is a good side to it:
         | in countryside roads you will able to see pedestrians/bicycles
         | that don't use refractory lights better. Surely you are
         | blinding everyone else.
        
         | mapt wrote:
         | Just because this is YC, I thought I should pitch in -
         | 
         | A high-trust society that solved coordination problems through
         | legislation, could solve this with a win-win technofix solution
         | where everybody's headlights are as bright as the sun and
         | nobody suffers ill effects.
         | 
         | That technofix solution is polarized headlights, and right-
         | angle-polarized night driving glasses or windshield tints.
        
           | Spoom wrote:
           | Wouldn't that, uh, make your own headlights invisible to you?
        
             | mapt wrote:
             | Polarized light reflecting off a textured surface scrambles
             | into nonpolarized light.
             | 
             | There are modest costs (signage & road markings shouldn't
             | be perfectly smooth, retroreflectors work a little
             | differently, and you lose a certain percent efficiency),
             | but they're much less intense than the costs of the current
             | situation.
        
           | potato3732842 wrote:
           | > high-trust society that solved coordination problems
           | through legislation
           | 
           | What is the point of being high trust in the first place if
           | you have to have a government violence backed law for
           | everything?
           | 
           | High trust societies don't have governments dealing BS
           | minutia like automobile headlights. That is expensive in all
           | sorts of ways, assuming you even do it right and don't
           | accidentally create some perverse rent seeking bureaucracy or
           | certification group that has incentive to push things in a
           | dumb direction over time. And high trust societies don't need
           | to do that stuff because they're high trust and collaborative
           | in the first place so those problems solve themselves. The
           | big players identify the problem, mostly solve it with some
           | sort of industry standard, and whatever rounding error is
           | left is a nuisance so small it's not worth addressing.
           | 
           | This is how like the overwhelming majority of automotive (and
           | a million other industries too, computer stuff being a
           | particularly relevant one here) stuff was done before
           | regulation and how a lot of the more cutting edge stuff is
           | still done now with the added step of the regulator saying
           | "hey that thing everyone's mostly doing, it's law now,
           | errybody do it" once things settle.
           | 
           | I don't mean to pick on you specifically, the questionable
           | take you're peddling is pervasive all over HN.
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | People were pushing for those in the 90s. I think it never
           | got adopted because of the loss of transparency on the
           | windshield (AFAIK, there's an international standard that
           | most countries go beyond, and it's way above 50%).
           | 
           | There is also some dispute over the direction, because
           | polarized sunglasses filter out horizontal light, but we
           | would want this system to filter out vertical light because
           | of the way things reflect. I guess this wouldn't be a
           | showstopper to turning it into law, but it was loud at the
           | time.
        
         | taeric wrote:
         | I confess this is why I just assumed my eyes were going bad. I
         | am getting old, and this shift seemed to have coincided with
         | about the time I moved to a more rural area. In the city, I
         | don't know that I ever used "brights" on my cars. In rural, it
         | helps to see when there are basically no road lamps.
        
         | vladvasiliu wrote:
         | > Out in the country, you still don't really need brighter
         | headlights. Other cars' headlights will always be visible and
         | they have reflectors, so it's not as if you'll struggle to spot
         | other cars. The road lines are actually reflective, so it's not
         | as if you'll struggle to see the road lines. And generally
         | speaking out in the country, there won't be pedestrian foot
         | traffic, so it's not as if you need the bright lights for them.
         | 
         | I don't know about the UK, but out here in France, this is
         | wrong on most counts. Many country roads have no lines,
         | reflective or otherwise. There _will_ be pedestrians walking
         | around. Also, roads are not always in tip-top shape nor clean,
         | so you need light to be able to see.
         | 
         | However, I do agree that maybe _extremely_ bright lights
         | mounted high are a nuisance.
        
           | bunderbunder wrote:
           | Same for rural parts of North America, and you also have to
           | worry about animals on the road.
           | 
           | But I find that bright white headlights actually make that
           | second problem worse. The bright white light means your eyes
           | don't adjust as well to the dark, so you can really only see
           | straight ahead. So it's much harder to spot deer standing in
           | the relative gloom along the side of the road than it is with
           | older halogen headlights.
        
             | vladvasiliu wrote:
             | You're right, and it's actually _even worse_ when the road
             | has very reflective white lines. Basically, everything
             | outside of the road is invisible. However, in France, they
             | somehow haven 't figured how to not have their lines
             | disappear when it rains ever so slightly.
             | 
             | I think that there's some kind of middle ground. Older cars
             | used to have pretty dim lights. When my dad got a Citroen
             | C5 with Xenon lights many years ago, it was a game changer.
             | That car and one almost identical one (Peugeot 407) were
             | fairly popular around these parts when they came out, and I
             | don't remember ever having issues with their headlights
             | blinding me.
             | 
             | But something started to shift some 5 years ago: more and
             | more cars started having blinding lights. Combined with
             | taller and taller cars, it started being a pain.
             | 
             | I also think that people pay less attention to the state of
             | their cars. Some (like that C5) have auto-levelling lights,
             | and the Xenons seem to last forever (never had to touch
             | them in almost 20 years of service). However, I have the
             | impression that there are more and more cars with
             | headlights which are simply out of whack. I base that
             | judgement on the fact that most of the time, only one of
             | the headlights will blind me, while the other seems fine.
             | And I'm mostly talking "basic" cars, not some high-end
             | mercedes with matrix lights or whatever they're called
             | which may be misdetecting something.
        
             | masklinn wrote:
             | > Same for rural parts of North America, and you also have
             | to worry about animals on the road.
             | 
             | You very much have to worry about that in europe as well in
             | the conditions GP talks about (source: hit a deer in the
             | dark not two weeks back).
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | But for the truly dark areas, you can turn on your high beams
           | - which you aren't allowed to have on when there's oncoming
           | traffic. Smart / adaptive lighting is another option, lower /
           | yellower light in well lit spaces.
        
             | vladvasiliu wrote:
             | > Smart / adaptive lighting is another option
             | 
             | These may actually be part of the problem. My dad's 2022
             | Toyota has "smart" high-beams. That means that when it
             | detects a car in front, it'll switch off the high-beams (as
             | opposed to adapt their pattern).
             | 
             | This is supposed to work with cars going both ways. In my
             | experience, it will detect cars going the same way about
             | half the time, and incoming cars about 3/4 of the time.
             | 
             | Now, since it's not completely broken, I suspect many
             | people who only pay the minimum attention to their driving,
             | and the rest to their phone, will simply leave the high-
             | beams on and figure the car will deal with traffic. So,
             | when the car fails to detect the oncoming car, its pretty
             | bright lights will completely blind the driver.
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | My 2020 Lexus has the same system. I'm amazed at how well
               | it works for same-direction traffic and how terrible it
               | is for opposite direction traffic (which seems like it
               | should be a vastly easier problem to solve).
               | 
               | I wish it was usable, but I think it's not.
        
           | 1718627440 wrote:
           | This is also true for Germany, but your ability to see in the
           | dark decreases at some point with increasing brightness,
           | since you don't allow your eyes to get used to the darkness.
        
             | haspok wrote:
             | But you are not supposed to see in the dark while driving!
             | If you were, we would all be driving by moonlight...
        
               | 1718627440 wrote:
               | Adapting to the darkness is not a binary thing. You are
               | supposed to see beside the road by light reflected from
               | your beams. Otherwise you would only see animals when
               | they come into your beam, which is generally too late,
               | you want to see them when they are to your side.
               | 
               | When the lights are essentially so bright that I need
               | sunglasses at night, so my eyes don't hurt, the
               | additional brightness definitely makes me see less, not
               | more.
        
               | haspok wrote:
               | > You are supposed to see beside the road by light
               | reflected from your beams.
               | 
               | I don't think so.
               | 
               | If you are driving at normal speed (100 kmh in most of
               | Europe) on an unlit country road, with a low beam, maybe
               | with oncoming traffic, you have 0 (zero) chance of
               | spotting a deer by the road jumping out from the dark in
               | front of you. Zero. Nada. Null. LED or halogen lights,
               | doesn't matter.
               | 
               | But regardless, I still remember driving with a halogen
               | low-beam, it wasn't any better in that regard than with
               | LED. At least with the LED I can see the road properly
               | now, unlike with the halogen.
        
           | abyssin wrote:
           | All roads in France except very small ones have white
           | reflective lines.
        
           | johnwalkr wrote:
           | It varies a lot in the US. Major highway in Florida? Very
           | visible lines. Minor highway in Colorado with all the paint
           | and reflectors scraped off by snowplows, even if the road is
           | in good condition? Not as visible. Rural somewhere? Good
           | luck.
        
         | breppp wrote:
         | I never wanted bright lights, I just paid extra for LEDs in the
         | hope that I won't need to change these anymore
        
         | kappi wrote:
         | When you are driving in the night during heavy rainfall, good
         | head light is difference between life and death. Get out of
         | your bubble please!
        
           | phatfish wrote:
           | And when your ridiculous LED lamps blind the oncoming driver
           | on a corner during heavy rain and they crash into you, you
           | wish weren't so selfish.
           | 
           | I guess it is more likely they crash into the car behind you
           | or just run off the road themselves. Unfortunately being a
           | selfish pays off most of the time.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > The road lines are actually reflective, so it's not as if
         | you'll struggle to see the road lines. And generally speaking
         | out in the country, there won't be pedestrian foot traffic, so
         | it's not as if you need the bright lights for them.
         | 
         | Reading these comments is a reminder that a lot of people
         | aren't familiar with the diversity of roads and environments
         | across the country and around the world.
         | 
         | Painted reflective road lines in good shape are a luxury,
         | especially in areas with heavy snow and snowplows coming
         | through a lot.
         | 
         | Pedestrians aren't a concern, but deer and other animals are.
         | The deer are much worse than pedestrians because they move
         | faster and don't understand how to avoid cars.
         | 
         | Country roads also have very different conditions across the
         | world. In some places you have clear visibility 100 feet to the
         | tree line. In some places I drive, the trees are dense right up
         | to the road with only a couple feet of clearance to the car.
         | Some roads are also so rough that the biggest hazards are
         | avoiding pot holes. Some roads I drive are up against mountain
         | faces and the road may have large rocks that have fallen on it.
         | 
         | I personally don't feel the need for brighter headlights
         | because I keep my headlight lenses clear, washed, and waxed,
         | and I'm young with good eyesight. I also use brights in the
         | countryside and toggle them off when other drivers are coming.
         | 
         | However, downplaying the challenges of country road driving is
         | weird.
        
           | everdrive wrote:
           | >However, downplaying the challenges of country road driving
           | is weird.
           | 
           | This is a total non sequitur, but we live in the country, and
           | we had a few friends who had only ever lived in the city. A
           | few of them independently expressed anxiety about visiting us
           | due to needing to drive on "curvy country roads." I'm not
           | making a broader point here, but I'd never heard this concern
           | expressed before and was really surprised that it was a big
           | obstacle for some people.
        
             | Yizahi wrote:
             | I have close to two decades of driving experience and I
             | dread driving on the rural roads. Roads where you can
             | barely fit two cars side by side, or even narrower,
             | unexpected cars rushing towards you from the closed dead
             | corners, badly signed crossings etc. But mostly its narrow
             | roads, it is extremely stressful for me, and double so in
             | the twilight and in the darkness.
        
           | alt227 wrote:
           | > downplaying the challenges of country road driving is
           | weird.
           | 
           | Only if you cant drive very well.
           | 
           | I have always lived in the sticks and drive fast fine on dark
           | lanes with old headlamps. I have never hit anything, never
           | even a near miss. These new headligfhts are a nuisance and
           | completely unecessary. Driving on country roads at night is
           | not hard.
        
         | icetank wrote:
         | My guess is that the average population of car drivers is
         | aging. With age comes worse eyesight and and the ability to see
         | in the dark. So a lot of people are probably more comfortable
         | with having brighter headlights.
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | > In the city, it's so bright that you don't even need
         | headlights to see whatsoever.
         | 
         | And, in the UK at least, you don't legally need to use them
         | either. If it's lit and the speed limit is no more than 30mph,
         | you only need sidelights and taillights on in the dark.
         | 
         | Unfortunately most people will flash their lights at you if
         | they see it as they assume you've forgotten to put them on.
        
         | rickydroll wrote:
         | People who drive in rural New England.
         | 
         | Headlights don't illuminate far enough to stop in time at 40 or
         | 50 miles an hour, let alone at highway speeds. Snarky view is
         | you may wreck your car, but at least you'll have a year's worth
         | of venison.
        
           | mingus88 wrote:
           | Where I live, it doesn't matter how far your lights throw
           | down the roadway, you still have less than a couple seconds
           | to notice the deer sprinting out of the woods directly in
           | front of you
        
         | htek wrote:
         | Most people don't change the brightness of their lights. This
         | is driven by industry using HID and LED lights that have a
         | higher color temperature than the old lighting. It's really a
         | failure of governmental regulation (or lack thereof, in this
         | case).
        
           | mingus88 wrote:
           | LED upgrades were very popular in the early 2000s. IIRC that
           | style of light was introduced by Lexus and Audi around 2003
           | 
           | The tuner community naturally started retrofitting those
           | lights into their cheaper Hondas and Toyotas, as they were
           | signals of luxury and performance. Those times were bad,
           | since those folk were not aiming them properly.
           | 
           | Mainstream brands followed shortly afterwards, and now they
           | are standard equipment. Honestly there is no going back.
           | People won't want a car with dim lights when every other car
           | has "nicer" ones.
           | 
           | I agree it will take regulation to fix, and I am not at all
           | confident in that ever happening. What used to be a $30 part
           | at the auto store is now at least $300 in special parts and
           | labor to replace a headlight, on the low end
        
         | arethuza wrote:
         | I live in rural Scotland - a lot of minor roads round here have
         | no markings?
        
         | Yizahi wrote:
         | I don't even use my high beams usually, and neither do I have
         | LED, xenon or laser headlights. But I often do wish that I
         | magically had brighter headlights without being an asshole,
         | both in the city and rural. In the city any 2 lane or smaller
         | road can be unexpectedly crossed by pedestrians, on crossings
         | and not. And pedestrians nowadays are wearing all black,
         | completely invisible on the side of the road. And on the rural
         | roads, I want as far visibility as I can get, because the load
         | is usually 1.5 lane, barely fitting two cars at below walking
         | speed, so when I see an opposite traffic I need to immediately
         | slow down and take to the right, almost touching the ditch or
         | the wall, to pass safely. Additionally I need to spot opposing
         | car in the dead corners, where there is zero visibility etc.
         | And finally the same problem as in the city with pedestrians
         | crossing rural roads, which is even more dangerous because it
         | is unexpected and darker.
         | 
         | So I can see a powerful motivation to fit bright headlights in
         | the cars, regardless of the other's comfort.
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | This is pretty detached from reality. Many places in the
         | countryside don't even have road lines, never mind reflective
         | ones. People walk out in the countryside all the time. Animals
         | are a very big reason to have bright lights in the countryside,
         | too.
        
           | alt227 wrote:
           | Headlights dazzle animals, which is why they stand there
           | staring into your lights until they get hit. The less light
           | your car is giving off, the more chance wildlife has to get
           | out of its way becasue it can actually see your car not just
           | a massive bright light like the sun coming towards them.
        
         | psunavy03 wrote:
         | Ah, the old "I am a free-thinking rational being, but everyone
         | else are a bunch of NPCs who can't be allowed to have what they
         | want without enlightened supervision" argument.
        
         | jcranmer wrote:
         | > Out in the country, you still don't really need brighter
         | headlights. Other cars' headlights will always be visible and
         | they have reflectors, so it's not as if you'll struggle to spot
         | other cars. The road lines are actually reflective, so it's not
         | as if you'll struggle to see the road lines. And generally
         | speaking out in the country, there won't be pedestrian foot
         | traffic, so it's not as if you need the bright lights for them.
         | 
         | The first time I used the hi-beams in my life was when I came
         | off the ferry on Manitoulin Island and drove to my hotel from
         | there. This is what that road looks like:
         | https://maps.app.goo.gl/L7JajQbGQA7Fog1g9. No reflectors, the
         | road lines aren't reflective, no ancillary lights from
         | civilization to be aware of, and of course since it's so rural,
         | you get to deal with all of the wildlife running around. I
         | turned my hi-beams and realized for the first time in my life
         | all the things I _wasn 't_ seeing before.
        
         | esseph wrote:
         | Out in the country there's no lines on the road. In fact, the
         | road could be gravel for many, many miles, or just a dirt road.
         | 
         | And I NEED those lights, especially this time of year where
         | it's getting dark earlier and the deer, moose and elk are
         | moving around during light transition hours.
        
         | gorgoiler wrote:
         | Where they pass through rural areas the high-speed, multi-lane
         | roads in the UK and continental Europe are unlit. Partly for
         | cost, partly to avoid light pollution. Brighter lights mean
         | being able to see hazards further ahead of you.
        
         | 7952 wrote:
         | Maybe it all comes down to allowing people to feel comfortable
         | driving more quickly on country roads. Also, the number of
         | people who actually choose new cars is quite limited, and they
         | may be influenced by stupid factors.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | You assume country roads have painted lines? Not where I live.
         | And you also need to watch for deer, racoons, and other
         | critters crossing ahead of you. High beams are essential on
         | dark country roads.
        
           | alt227 wrote:
           | Bright headlights dazzle wildlife. You do not need retina
           | burning suns for headlamps to see animals on country roads.
        
         | pwg wrote:
         | > Out in the country, you still don't really need brighter
         | headlights. Other cars' headlights will always be visible and
         | they have reflectors, so it's not as if you'll struggle to spot
         | other cars. The road lines are actually reflective, so it's not
         | as if you'll struggle to see the road lines. And generally
         | speaking out in the country, there won't be pedestrian foot
         | traffic, so it's not as if you need the bright lights for them.
         | 
         | Not correct on all counts. Depending upon "where" out in the
         | country, you can very well be the only car on the road for as
         | far as you can see to the horizon.
         | 
         | A very many country roads do not have any reflectors (those are
         | often only installed on highway roads, not the roads you use to
         | get to/from your destination to the highway.
         | 
         | Some country roads will have reflective paint lines, but a good
         | many will have non-reflective paint lines, and/or no lines at
         | all or the paint is so worn down that they may as well have no
         | lines at all.
         | 
         | And while the rate of encountering pedestrians will be way less
         | than in a city, it is very much not the case that there "won't
         | be pedestrians". There very much _will_ be pedestrians,
         | sometimes. And for those rare sometimes you very much want to
         | be able to recognize them from as far away as possible.
         | 
         | The purpose of high beams in the country is not "brighter"
         | (calling them "high beams", while correct, causes many to
         | believe that "high" refers to "brighter"). The purpose of
         | "high" beams is longer throw (the light goes further down the
         | road, so you can see obstacles from a greater distance). The
         | "high" in "high beams" refers to the fact that the angle of
         | throw is set "higher" to cause the lamps to illuminate a
         | greater distance down the road.
        
       | nikanj wrote:
       | The bane of my existence is the new "smart" matrix lights, which
       | claim you don't have to switch to low beams for incoming traffic.
       | I bet they work great in AutoCAD or perfect vacuum, but in
       | reality you have the pesky atmosphere scattering the bright
       | photons every which way - guaranteeing at least 40% hitting my
       | poor retinas.
        
         | semi-extrinsic wrote:
         | The only solution is to fit a 300W LED bar and consistently
         | flash those guys until they are bothered enough to go into the
         | menu of their computer-on-wheels and turn off this "feature".
        
           | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
           | ...or piss those guys enough that they will call police _on
           | you_ for blinding them and creating a road hazard, or someone
           | unhinged enough gets pissed off and will follow you, after
           | which your behind will dearly regret buying such a long LED
           | bar.
           | 
           | This is the same kind of useful advice as the one to brake
           | check those whose driving style you don't like very much,
           | fight (real or perceived) road hazard with deliberately
           | creating more hazard.
        
             | semi-extrinsic wrote:
             | Sorry, I forgot to emphasize the irony with this:
             | https://xkcd.com/3167/
        
               | febusravenga wrote:
               | Thank you, didn't see that one. Now it lands in my
               | "mandatory xkcd list"
        
         | cbzbc wrote:
         | The problem is that they react to lights from the opposing
         | vehicle, but they are going to hit your eyes before they detect
         | your lights.
         | 
         | That's with simple high beam assist. The matrix ones you refer
         | to actually have another feature which makes things even worse;
         | they progressively dip the light in parts, but combined with
         | the first effect this means that you have a few seconds of
         | being blinded before all of their component leds have been
         | dipped.
         | 
         | Not to mention that they are only reacting to something
         | directly in front of them for the most part -- meaning you can
         | be blinded on curves, or when turn around and looking at them
         | off axis (say as they wait to turn into a road).
        
         | veltas wrote:
         | They just don't work, they blind me all the time reflecting off
         | of side mirrors or just don't detect that you're in the zone at
         | all.
        
       | MarcScott wrote:
       | I think this is an area where stricter regulation would be
       | appreciated. Just needs an additional checkbox on the regular MOT
       | forms, and all cars would be compliant within a year.
       | 
       | Additionally, car designers should leave headlights and
       | indicators alone, unless they are making the vehicles safer. The
       | first time I encountered an oncoming car with a horizontal LED
       | strip between the lights, I had no idea what style of vehicle was
       | oncoming.
        
         | varispeed wrote:
         | It was a monobrow car.
        
       | HPsquared wrote:
       | A lot of this is due to differing heights. There are more tall
       | vehicles with headlights that are high off the ground, which
       | dazzle drivers of regular cars.
       | 
       | Even if the dip angle is the same (1% gradient or so), this can
       | still dazzle most people nearby.
        
         | Aachen wrote:
         | Vans and other bigger vehicles, that have the lights mounted
         | higher than usual, are indeed particularly bad, but I don't
         | really want to get into an arms race of taller and taller
         | vehicles just to be able to see at night. Better that the
         | manufacturers just angle it down a bit more if they want to put
         | the lights up that high
        
       | close04 wrote:
       | Headlights are brighter because when you are behind them, it's a
       | game changer. The road visibility is so much better now, I still
       | remember the dull yellowish lights I had on my first car (1970s
       | model) and realize I was more driving by feel. But in front of
       | those headlights it's a pain.
       | 
       | Then there's the height of the hood, headlights are so much
       | higher than they used to on average. Amplifies that pain.
        
         | 1718627440 wrote:
         | That was the case, when you were the only one having them. Now
         | you see less, because everyone has them.
        
         | veltas wrote:
         | The problem is the road visibility doesn't need to be 'better',
         | it just needs to be 'visible'.
         | 
         | We went from the road is visible to everyone, to the road is
         | only visible to some people because the rest of us don't have
         | ultra bright lights and are getting blinded.
        
       | comrade1234 wrote:
       | Are they just not aimed properly? I don't think replacing
       | headlights is something you should do unless you're a
       | professional.
       | 
       | I don't drive much here in Switzerland but I haven't noticed a
       | problem when I do drive, but in the USA when I drive, especially
       | in rural areas it's a pain.
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | It's this. They aren't inspected for alignment. It's fairly
         | obvious that you can't be blinded by a light unless it's being
         | sent directly into your face or reflecting off a mirror and
         | directly into your face.
        
           | zimpenfish wrote:
           | I thought they changed the MOT to better assess alignment[0]?
           | 
           | [0] https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/the-mot-headlamp-
           | aim-te...
        
       | Jamustico wrote:
       | I don't think it's the brightness but the type of light.
       | 
       | LED white lights are the actually the problem
        
       | alexpadula wrote:
       | All new car head lights are too bright. I miss the old warm
       | yellow lights.
        
         | jansper39 wrote:
         | We could have warmer headlights which would be more comfortable
         | for road users, but most car manufacturers have decided it's
         | 5000K white because it's fashionable.
        
           | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
           | I'm always curious, who are all those people who tell
           | manufacturers it's fashionable? Other than voices in their
           | heads? Who are those people that unironically like those
           | searing lights?
        
             | Aachen wrote:
             | I imagine it's the same people that cut holes in new pants.
             | There appear to be some true marketing gods in this world
             | who evidently find buyers for newly broken items at prices
             | higher than the original nonbroken items. Selling bright
             | white lamps frankly 'pales' next to that
        
             | meindnoch wrote:
             | Same people who told them drivers want touchscreens.
        
               | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
               | Yeah, but who are they? Do they keep a real Homer Simpson
               | in some basement, ask him what's cool, and take the
               | stupidest cheapest ideas for implementation?
        
           | mnw21cam wrote:
           | Higher colour temperature LEDs are more efficient, so that's
           | one reason why they get chosen. It's not a _good_ reason,
           | given they 're still a massive efficiency improvement over
           | old halogens.
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | Some US context:
       | 
       | "Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108 (FMVSS 108) regulates
       | all automotive lighting, signalling and reflective devices in the
       | United States.
       | 
       | In February 2022, FMVSS 108 was amended to allow automakers to
       | install adaptive driver beam (ADB) headlamps on new vehicles.
       | However, carmakers have not implemented ADB because of
       | contradictions in the rule.
       | 
       | As of December 2024, FMVSS 108 has not been updated to adapt to
       | widespread use of LED headlamps, which are criticized for being
       | too bright and blinding other drivers. Some manufacturers have
       | reportedly engineered headlamps to have a dark spot where they
       | are measured according to the regulation while being over-
       | illuminated in the rest of the field."
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_S...
       | 
       | "Adaptive Highbeam Assist is Mercedes-Benz's marketing name for a
       | headlight control strategy that continuously automatically
       | tailors the headlamp range so the beam just reaches other
       | vehicles ahead, thus always ensuring maximum possible seeing
       | range without glaring other road users.
       | 
       | This technology is also known as Adaptive Driving Beams (ADB).
       | 
       | Until February 2022, this technology had been illegal in the US,
       | as FMVSS 108 specifically stated that headlamps must have
       | dedicated high and low beams to be deemed road-legal. An
       | infrastructure bill enacted in November 2021 included language
       | that directs the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
       | to amend FMVSS 108 to allow the use of this technology, and set a
       | two-year deadline for implementing this change. In February 2022,
       | the NHTSA amended FMVSS 108 allowing adaptive headlights for use
       | in the US. However, the new regulations are quite different from
       | the ones in effect in Europe and Asia and prevent car
       | manufacturers from easily adapting their systems to the US
       | market."
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp?wprov=sfti1#Adaptive_...
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | I have adaptive lights on my Ford Lightning (and Model 3, more
         | recently), and I do like it, but it is not without compromises.
         | 
         | It relies on the camera recognizing what should be excluded
         | from the light pattern, for one. Easy for oncoming cars as well
         | as ones in front of you. Less easy for vehicles that are
         | perpendicular to you (like just showing their nose and driver,
         | waiting to turn onto the road you are already on). And then
         | there are pedestrians.
         | 
         | They do try to mitigate that by turning off the adaptive high
         | beam whenever the car detects that you are in a well lit area
         | with lots of ambient lighting sources (i.e. the city), but it's
         | not foolproof. And since you just leave it on all the time, you
         | end up using the "high beam" light far more often than you'd
         | probably choose to when controlling it manually.
        
       | oldjim798 wrote:
       | Desperately we need to reign in car "style" choices like this.
       | Beyond headlights being too bright, lift kits should be banned
       | and tint regulations should be enforced. Same with sound
       | regulations.
       | 
       | Public roads are not race tracks; they are for people.
        
         | lan321 wrote:
         | What bothers you about tints? I've never bothered to get one
         | since it's illegal where I'm at but the new ones seem pretty
         | cool for cave dwellers who fear the light. They tint well
         | during the day but you can still see at night from what I've
         | seen on friends cars.
        
           | ghusto wrote:
           | It's like driving behind a truck or van, you can't see past
           | the (tinted) car in front.
           | 
           | The solution would be to overtake people with tinted windows.
           | Unfortunately, the type of people with tinted windows are
           | exactly the type you shouldn't overtake.
        
             | okdood64 wrote:
             | > Unfortunately, the type of people with tinted windows are
             | exactly the type you shouldn't overtake.
             | 
             | So every soccer mom SUV?
        
               | Workaccount2 wrote:
               | Factory tints are generally mild and never on the
               | windshield.
               | 
               | Aftermarket tints are dark and people get both the rear
               | window and windshield tinted.
        
           | mtoner23 wrote:
           | most aftermarket tints are too dark and dont allow
           | pedestrians to see into the car to see if they going to be
           | hit by the driver. its illegal in most places but cops dont
           | do anything about it.
        
             | alt227 wrote:
             | Yeah, they do.
             | 
             | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c51y927e5g2o
        
           | globular-toast wrote:
           | I could talk about eye contact and how using the road only
           | works if we cooperate but, more than anything, I just find a
           | heavily tinted windscreen to be antisocial. It's like the
           | ultimate form of bullying. Driving around in a killing
           | machine without your victims even being able to see you.
        
             | tybstar wrote:
             | I like to stare right into the windshield where I think the
             | driver's face must be, make them think I can see through
             | the tint. I doubt it works.
        
       | varispeed wrote:
       | Yes, evening, rain, headlights - basically best to close eyes and
       | drive by feel.
       | 
       | I too wonder why these are legal.
        
       | PunchyHamster wrote:
       | No wonder. We need standard both on the brightness and the height
       | of the headlights off the ground. Try driving normal sized car or
       | anything sporty and it's blindness central any time modern SUV
       | shows up.
        
       | mihaaly wrote:
       | Wild west of light usage makes cycling habits in UK bad as well.
       | Several thousands of lux lights are pointed towards the oncoming
       | cyclsts switched to strobe mode. Rear light are comparably strong
       | and distracting by all the very creative patterns of flashing.
       | People seem to pour out the children of safety with the dirty
       | bath water of flashing lights. Yes, you want to be noticed, yeah,
       | you made it! By dazzling everyone else and divert attention away
       | from any other traffic or dangers. Very stupid practice, making
       | safety worse, not better.
        
         | Sunspark wrote:
         | Those flashing lights aren't even road legal in Germany. I
         | never set mine to flash and I'm not in Germany.
         | 
         | I believe flashing lights are actually less safe as it
         | encourages the driver to look AWAY from you. I certainly don't
         | keep staring at a flashing light.
        
       | keepamovin wrote:
       | This is one of those situations where UK's "rule by law" model
       | could actually be super positive. Make a law restricting
       | brightness and put police and cameras onto ticketing drivers who
       | needlessly burn their highbeams when lowbeams would suffice.
       | 
       | The old halogen-warm colors were better, too. You don't want
       | "area denial" lighting on your everyday ride.
        
       | _joel wrote:
       | Totally, especially the big chelsea tractors that seem to be even
       | more direct to retina.
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | Really need to limit the size of cars. Its starting to get
         | ridiculous our here in the English countryside with cars that
         | have to cross the median because they're so fat.
        
       | gbil wrote:
       | A few things I've experienced:
       | 
       | - In many new cars the headlights do indeed appear as very
       | bright. In the Xenon era the headlight height adjustment per
       | occupancy was done automatically but at least in a few new cars
       | I've been in with LED headlights this is not the case and the
       | driver needs to adjust it by hand and I'm pretty sure the vast
       | majority doesn't do that.
       | 
       | - Many new cars offer automated switching of high beam lights and
       | the results vary to say the least.
       | 
       | - Small experience from UK highways gave me the same impression,
       | the middle strip is not a solid one which is a huge issue when
       | the lights from the other side blind you and I'm talking about
       | normal headlights just because of road curvature or height
       | difference of the opposing lanes while there are no overhead road
       | lights.
       | 
       | EDIT:format
        
         | yolo3000 wrote:
         | I am in very small minority since my car is 20 years old now,
         | but it has halogen lights with height adjustments, and they
         | even check for height adjustment at the yearly inspection. But
         | automated high beam switching and people are not ware of it?
         | What sort of drivers do we have nowadays..
        
           | kbolino wrote:
           | A number of US states don't even require regular safety
           | inspections. For example, in Maryland, you only get a safety
           | inspection when selling your vehicle or transferring it in
           | from another state.
           | 
           | The number of people who don't use their lights judiciously
           | is surprisingly large. Besides high beam issues, I've also
           | observed people who think that their daytime running lights
           | are headlights. This is especially obvious because their
           | taillights will be off.
        
             | ztetranz wrote:
             | New Hampshire just ended inspections.
        
       | ZeroConcerns wrote:
       | I think the UK should do a HeadExit, where they refuse any bulbs
       | manufactured after 1972 or so (maybe 1974 bulbs are still
       | acceptable, _I don 't know man_, can anyone run a quick A/B
       | test?).
       | 
       | I'm pretty sure that, like "taking control of [their] borders by
       | leaving the EU", this is a course of action that will make
       | everyone happy.
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | It seems to me that in America the number of people just driving
       | around with their high beams on has greatly increased in the last
       | decade or so, too. People are so focused on their phones that
       | they don't see the big blue light on the dashboard, or they don't
       | know what it indicates.
        
         | segmondy wrote:
         | It's not people turning it on, it's the default on lots of new
         | cars, they turn on automatically at night especially and are
         | suppose to switch to low beam when they see incoming cars.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | Most of the ones I notice seem to be older cars that probably
           | lacked those features. It's mostly the older cars where you
           | can unambiguously see their bright lights are on anyway,
           | because of the headlight style.
        
       | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
       | Same in Poland, I often drive after dark thinking, "those
       | oncoming idiots and their high beams", but then they flash their
       | high beams at someone and I realize that those are _not_ their
       | high beams.
       | 
       | Granted, my Yaris with full LED lights and their atrocious cool
       | white light is a part of the problem, so I'm in no position to
       | complain, but at least my lights are aimed correctly, so there's
       | that.
        
         | Sunspark wrote:
         | In North America, the problem is other than the fact they
         | didn't allow dimming lights for whatever reason, they made a
         | separate regulation for LED lights compared to the old
         | incandescent lights.
         | 
         | The old light regulation actually had a limit on how bright the
         | running lights could be.
         | 
         | The new LED light regulation says you can have it as bright as
         | the manufacturer wants it to be.
         | 
         | So now there is the problem of misaligned headlights that don't
         | point at the road but instead point at cars, and are as bright
         | or brighter than the old incandescent high beams.
         | 
         | I have to have my rear-view mirror permanently flipped at night
         | now. I never needed to do that in the past except when some
         | idiot actually was using their high beams.
        
           | WesolyKubeczek wrote:
           | Another problem in North America is that the sizes and
           | heights of cars keep going up. Reminds me of loudness wars in
           | music somehow. Don't know if this apparent size translates to
           | more space inside; from my limited experience riding in
           | American cars, not very much.
           | 
           | There's someone in my neighborhood who has an imported Toyota
           | Sequoia. Magnificent machine. His car could be mistaken for a
           | small bus. When he vacates the spot, two normal sized cars
           | can park in it. Our actual buses and semis often have lower
           | headlights than that thing.
        
       | wkoszek wrote:
       | US is the same. I no longer know is someone is using long-
       | distance lights or normal lights, or whether they are wrongly
       | adjusted. But driving at knight, especially with folks right
       | behind you is hard.
        
       | skylurk wrote:
       | Recently I was driving in the daytime and got temporarily blinded
       | by a BMW SUV with its high beams on. Not sure where to draw the
       | line, but "brighter than the sun" is too bright.
        
       | cpfleming wrote:
       | More that they're misaligned than too bright...
        
       | Aachen wrote:
       | Where I live, it's customary to let other drivers know by
       | flashing your brights when they're blinding you or if there's
       | some other issue with their vehicle like a broken tail light or
       | such. Maybe less now that you can't easily change the bulb
       | yourself but as a principle
       | 
       | In recent years I've started being unable to tell who's
       | intentionally blinding traffic and who's just got misconfigured
       | lamps (shining at eye level instead of angled down at the road).
       | It used to be feasible to also let people know when their lights
       | are misconfigured, I'd probably decide 1 warrants a signal across
       | several hours of driving (also because of avoiding collateral
       | targets), but the most recent time I drove, I think there was
       | always at least one car in sight that had the issue. It's
       | completely constant. It was worsening a few years ago but it's
       | really getting out of hand now, in Germany and the Netherlands at
       | least. Some people's lights are even piercing by day! Thankfully
       | that is quite rare yet
        
         | segmondy wrote:
         | A lot of new cars have it automatic, where they run on high
         | beam and are supposed to turn it off when they see incoming
         | cars ahead.
        
           | Aachen wrote:
           | We had a rental like that in 2023. The person who was driving
           | was amazed and you could see the effect very well where it
           | would light up the forest or town except for the one strip
           | where this other car was coming on
           | 
           | (I'll say it looked cool even if we didn't need the gimmick,
           | other drivers did occasionally flash us when they were at the
           | edge of its detection range, and I can't imagine it improves
           | the wildlife situation that's already not exactly thriving
           | with habitat areas cut up by roads and light pollution from
           | towns and cars everywhere around it)
           | 
           | I haven't seen this type of headlight as a third party yet.
           | I've been on the lookout for where another car might light up
           | areas around me but never noticed it. Not sure it's that
           | common in Germany or the Netherlands
        
         | donatj wrote:
         | When I got my Honda van with stock LED headlights about a year
         | ago, people started flashing me that my brights were on. After
         | the first couple times I started flashing my actual brights
         | back. They make the stock headlights too dang bright.
        
           | Aachen wrote:
           | Maybe get them replaced if you're blinding the other drivers?
           | 
           | I also assume that few people complain to the manufacturer so
           | they're probably not even aware that people find it a
           | nuisance. While one complaint won't do anything, it could be
           | doing anyway just in case you're not the only one who does
        
             | Telaneo wrote:
             | > Maybe get them replaced if you're blinding the other
             | drivers?
             | 
             | With what? Another set that has the exact same problem?
             | Short of replacing the whole car, there's no good solution
             | for the consumer, given that the problem is part of the
             | design.
        
               | Aachen wrote:
               | That's insane. I wasn't aware you can't replace one light
               | bulb for another until a sibling comment that I saw in
               | the meantime
        
             | donatj wrote:
             | They're not replaceable. That's the problem. It's not just
             | a bulb you can replace. I have to replace the entire
             | lighting fixture, and replacing the fixture with the OEM
             | part is going to have the same exact issue. Replacing it
             | with a non-OEM part is probably going to make it worse.
        
               | lucianbr wrote:
               | Perhaps there's some adjustment possible? Worth asking at
               | least.
        
           | belval wrote:
           | My parents bought a Lexus that happens to be tall-ish with
           | very bright headlights. I don't think I have ever driven it
           | at night without people flashing me.
           | 
           | It's really up to regulators to put something in place
           | though, I don't understand why it is taking so long. It's not
           | like they want those super-bright headlights, they just come
           | with the car...
        
             | folmar wrote:
             | Apparently Toyota+Lexus are ordering the most blinding
             | lights without any reason. Talk to the dealer - if no one
             | complains, they don't feel the need to fix.
        
           | lucianbr wrote:
           | I'm the one who's flashing you. I'm flashing you because your
           | headlights are bothering me. Showing me that you can bother
           | me _even more_ does not make it better.
           | 
           | Still, obviously, nothing you can do, or the driver in
           | general. And I guess the manufacturers aren't incentivised.
           | Regulation is the only thing that I can think of that will
           | work.
        
             | Aachen wrote:
             | "Nothing they can do"? I've never owned a car so genuinely
             | don't know but surely you can buy whatever lights you want
             | for it and/or correct the alignment?
             | 
             | I helped a friend with aligning the headlight after
             | changing the bulb some years ago, I hear newer cars don't
             | let you change the bulb yourself necessarily but then
             | surely the mechanics can be asked to do this when they
             | change it anyway, or upon the next inspection or so?
        
               | lucianbr wrote:
               | > whatever lights you want
               | 
               | For the cars I owned, only one set of official lights
               | existed. Aftermarket would be nearly guaranteed to be
               | worse quality and poorer alignment. And no changing them
               | in the warranty period either.
               | 
               | Car parts are not like PC parts, where you can buy your
               | own and mix-and-match.
               | 
               | No, things with car lights are not as you think. In many
               | modern cars there are no bulbs, but laser diodes and
               | complex lenses and god knows what else. I wouldn't trust
               | _anyone_ to fiddle with mine and do a good job, including
               | the dealership.
        
               | Aachen wrote:
               | That... is a sorry state of affairs and explains a lot.
               | Thanks for making me aware.
        
               | 1718627440 wrote:
               | > I wouldn't trust anyone to fiddle with mine and do a
               | good job, including the dealership.
               | 
               | Evidently that includes the manufacturer, since he wasn't
               | able to give you proper lights to begin with.
        
               | lucianbr wrote:
               | What part of my comments tells you my lights are not
               | proper?
        
               | 1718627440 wrote:
               | The lights of that Honda:
               | 
               | > When I got my Honda van with stock LED headlights about
               | a year ago, people started flashing me that my brights
               | were on.
        
               | lucianbr wrote:
               | I didn't write that. Pay attention to usernames.
        
               | 1718627440 wrote:
               | I was aware, I thought you are defending, that they can
               | do nothing about it.
        
               | Telaneo wrote:
               | > but then surely the mechanics can be asked to do this
               | when they change it anyway, or upon the next inspection
               | or so?
               | 
               | They then proceed to adjust them to spec, which is what
               | they were already at, thus not fixing the problem.
        
             | nucleardog wrote:
             | > Still, obviously, nothing you can do, or the driver in
             | general.
             | 
             | You could... fix it?
             | 
             | All headlights can be aimed. Even the "auto-levelling" ones
             | have adjustments. I'm sure there are some where it requires
             | some dealer-only programming tool, but a lot still just
             | have little knobs and things. If they don't go ask the
             | dealer to do it.
             | 
             | I drove behind a friend and they told me after that my
             | headlight was shining in their side mirror and blinding
             | them. I put my car in the garage and spent 15 minutes with
             | a screwdriver adjusting the aiming on the auto-leveling
             | sealed LED headlight units so it was lower and wouldn't
             | blind people.
        
               | lucianbr wrote:
               | I assumed the self leveling led whatever wonder-tech-wizz
               | cannot be aimed. If they can, that should be the first
               | reaction of someone who is getting flashed at a lot. As
               | opposed to flashing back. It's not a headlight-measuring-
               | contest.
               | 
               | But if it's a newish car, I assume it is factory tuned to
               | whatever standard it is supposed to be, and if you change
               | it, at the very least it will get changed back when doing
               | MOT.
        
         | calvinmorrison wrote:
         | So, I tested this for a few weeks. I can safely drive my car
         | around with hi-beams on and nobody even notices. My hi-beams
         | are less bothersome than the standard SUV.
        
         | alias_neo wrote:
         | > Where I live, it's customary to let other drivers know by
         | flashing your brights when they're blinding you
         | 
         | I do this here in the UK too, it happens a fair amount in the
         | countryside where people will forget to turn off their high-
         | beams as they reach a junction, and some of them driving older
         | vehicles that won't detect oncoming traffic and auto-dip.
         | 
         | Like you, I increasingly have the issue, in the city, that some
         | lights are so damn bright I literally can't tell if they're
         | using high-beams other than the fact I've grown to know which
         | models are the worst for it. Flashing them is pointless because
         | they won't understand unless someone actually stops to tell
         | them one day.
         | 
         | Legislation needs to fix this, they never should have been
         | allowed to be sold like this, and I hope mandates for changes
         | to the annual inspections (MOT here in UK) come in to correct
         | it for existing vehicles.
        
       | afandian wrote:
       | The excellent Mike Harrison has a couple of good videos on YT
       | tearing down modern headlamps:
       | 
       | - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fRjMHtnShs
       | 
       | - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZJoPbk53ug
       | 
       | (all his videos are good)
        
       | matt-p wrote:
       | I've got to say, I feel like bright white full spectrum is the
       | main problem, I would care much less about them if they were red
       | (though yes, we would need a new colour for rear/brake lights).
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | > _TRL 's data suggests that LED and whiter headlamps may be
       | linked to glare and that drivers might find their whiteness
       | harder to cope with._
       | 
       | As a long-time walker in the US, anecdotally, I've noticed some
       | especially blinding car headlights, and they seem to be among the
       | whiter ones. "Hey, thanks for ruining my night vision _and_ my
       | sleep cycle. " But I usually can't tell whether the cause of the
       | problem is the the aiming, brightness, or temperature. I thought
       | headlights were carefully regulated.
       | 
       | (There's something about LED lights that brings out oblivious or
       | indifferent behavior. Maybe involving efficiency improvements,
       | and people not reassessing requirements (e.g., when you couldn't
       | get a too-bright light, or it would be too expensive to operate,
       | you didn't have to think about other not-too-bright
       | requirements). In recent years, we got municipalities installing
       | miserable bright white street lamps, prompting complaints from
       | walkers and people who don't have blackout curtains anywhere that
       | shines in at night. And the last couple years, some individual
       | residential properties in my very dense neighborhood are
       | installing crazy-bright white LED floodlights outdoors, shining
       | at sidewalks and adjacent property windows, brighter than even
       | the new street lamps. I'm starting to see walkers at night going
       | out into the street (which isn't very safe), just to avoid the
       | blast. The first too-bright property lights to appear on a
       | block's street are very easy to spot, because they're obviously
       | the brightest thing there.)
        
       | torcete wrote:
       | When I was living in the UK, I remember being constantly blinded
       | by cars driving the opposite direction. A problem I rarely had in
       | continental Europe and never understood the reason.
        
       | rckt wrote:
       | As a pedestrian I can say that the headlights are too bright
       | everywhere I visit. If a car goes up a slope and I go down it's
       | like somebody holds a flashlight right up my eyes. I don't
       | understand why these mandatory lights should be so bright.
        
       | theoldgreybeard wrote:
       | I have astigmatism and the LED headlights are excruciating. They
       | make driving at night in the city absolute torture.
        
       | daemonologist wrote:
       | I find this problem to be most severe as a pedestrian - when my
       | eyes have adjusted to the darkness (even if I'm carrying a
       | flashlight, it pales in comparison) and a modern car is oncoming,
       | I cannot see _anything_. Out here in the sticks where there are
       | no sidewalks I can either take it on blind faith that the driver
       | has seen and will avoid me, or I can step way off into the ditch
       | (but not everyone has that option).
        
         | cubefox wrote:
         | Yeah. When I ride my bike in the sticks and pass walkers in the
         | dark, I try to disable my headlight a few seconds before I pass
         | them. Otherwise all they see is a bright light approaching.
         | Disabling the lights for a moment seems better than one party
         | not seeing anything. (Or both parties, e.g. two bikes, or
         | runners with forehead LED light.)
         | 
         | After all, even in the countryside the darkness usually is far
         | from complete. You still see quite a few meters without any
         | headlights. Though the tradeoff would be different for cars
         | with their much higher speed.
        
           | abyssin wrote:
           | If your front light is correctly aiming down, there's no need
           | to disable the light. Modern bicycle led front lights are
           | most often incorrectly set up, though.
        
             | cubefox wrote:
             | I can control the angle, but permanently aiming it down so
             | far that it can't get in anyone's eyes is completely
             | impractical. You would only see what's directly in front of
             | you and you would miss a lot of stuff.
        
           | sysworld wrote:
           | Just chuck in the old non LED lights. When I'm walking around
           | town at night, it's only the cars with new bright white LEDs
           | that are super bright and blind me. It's a relief when an
           | older car come by with orange'y lights.
           | 
           | Even during the day, the other week I was driving and some
           | small mini had super bright white lights on, no need for
           | them, it was bright day out. Even just the normal "day"
           | lights on new cars can be too sharp/bright. It's ok if I
           | don't look at them directly, but if I accidently check that
           | way it's distracting.
        
         | kedean wrote:
         | Thanks to automatic high beams, its a problem in residential
         | urban areas too. My neighborhood does not have much in the way
         | of streetlights, and automatic high beams operate by detecting
         | whether there is significant oncoming light. That means that in
         | my neighborhood, cars with AHB always have their high beams up
         | when there isn't oncoming car traffic. They also tend to
         | function really badly around road curves in residential areas,
         | where they'll affect other drivers.
         | 
         | PSA: Turn off your automatic high beams, they aren't worth it
         | the damage they do to the rest of us.
        
       | ghusto wrote:
       | > A study commissioned by the Department for Transport (DfT)
       | found 97% of people surveyed found they were regularly or
       | sometimes distracted by oncoming vehicles and 96% thought most or
       | some headlights were too bright.
       | 
       | 1% said they were sometimes distracted by incoming vehicles, and
       | that was fine.
        
       | monegator wrote:
       | The headlights are most definetly not too bright.
       | 
       | Instead, they are too high, because the idiots with new cars rely
       | on the automatic beam positioning which is always too slow.
       | 
       | Or they are fitting led bulbs in an halogen fixture and never
       | bother to make the adjustments
        
         | ghusto wrote:
         | No, they are too bright. So bright that they dazzle at any
         | height.
        
       | xzjis wrote:
       | There are two situations where I have problems with being dazzled
       | by headlights: - low beams on roads that aren't flat, because
       | they shine right into my eyes - the high beams of cars behind me
       | (sometimes close), which reflect in my mirrors but also off my
       | ceiling, my dashboard, etc.
       | 
       | But I don't necessarily have a problem with the headlights just
       | because they're too powerful.
        
       | njarboe wrote:
       | One of the main reasons people want/need brighter headlights is
       | that there is much more light inside the car from screens. These
       | don't let your eyes adjust to the dark properly. Older cars had
       | dim green lighting for the gauges and even had a knob to adjust
       | the brightness up and down. You could create a very dim interior
       | instead of the huge amount of white light you get with modern
       | cars and the multiple screens.
       | 
       | I'm happy my Tesla does a decent job of having the screen be
       | quite dark at night but the headlights are quite bad with the
       | horizontal cutoff style that only lights the first few feet of
       | horizontal ahead of the car. I need to see those deer and elk on
       | the side of the road, damn it.
        
         | bob1029 wrote:
         | > Older cars had dim green lighting for the gauges and even had
         | a knob to adjust the brightness up and down.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgh2zbifn7E
        
           | marcosdumay wrote:
           | That's a nice feature, but the driver actively operating that
           | camera at 70 mph is quite unsettling.
        
           | boldlybold wrote:
           | I knew before clicking this was going to be a Saab, I miss
           | mine!
        
             | jjtheblunt wrote:
             | i miss mine too!
        
             | potato3732842 wrote:
             | Many if not most cars had green gauges in the 80s and 90s.
             | They all had some sort of knob, wheel or other adjustment.
        
               | procaryote wrote:
               | Saab went further though and just light up the relevant
               | instruments. If you're good on fuel, it remains dark etc.
        
             | Sparkle-san wrote:
             | Saab also had a feature where it would turn off all the
             | lights in the instrument panel, but you could turn them
             | back on by hitting the top of the dash. Might be a Swedish
             | thing as Volvo had it too.
        
             | wildzzz wrote:
             | Saab loved to talk about their fighter jets in their car
             | marketing.
        
           | njarboe wrote:
           | The low green glow in the 65 mustang I drove in high school
           | was divine.
        
         | haspok wrote:
         | > huge amount of white light you get with modern cars
         | 
         | Maybe this is missing from your Tesla, but in my poor VW the
         | "screen" has a dark mode which is automatically turned on when
         | the lights are turned on - including Android Auto and Google
         | Maps, which is pretty much the only thing I ever use it for.
         | 
         | Previously I had a rusty Toyota with a very pale orange
         | display, it was always either too dim or too bright, terrible
         | contrast, and changing brightness on it was a pain. I hated
         | that with a passion.
        
           | thebruce87m wrote:
           | > Maybe this is missing from your Tesla, but in my poor VW
           | the "screen" has a dark mode which is automatically turned on
           | when the lights are turned on - including Android Auto and
           | Google Maps, which is pretty much the only thing I ever use
           | it for.
           | 
           | Tesla seems to do dark mode on sun rise / sun set.
           | 
           | Doing it with the lights seems like a strange decision -
           | sometimes I want my lights on when it's bright - e.g. fog,
           | rain or when the sun is low and I want others to see me.
        
           | njarboe wrote:
           | My Tesla does a good job with its screen and since it is a
           | model 3, no bright gages in front of the wheel. Most other
           | modern cars have this problem though.
        
         | Marsymars wrote:
         | My 2025 car (Ford) still has buttons for adjusting the
         | brightness up/down.
        
         | Wistar wrote:
         | Lately, I see a lot of drivers who turn on their brights and
         | just leave them on and this includes cars with the older
         | halogen and even incandescents. This is a change in behavior.
         | 
         | As for LEDs, to me, the Tesla Model 3 headlights are the worst
         | offender, but not all of them, just the majority. I can look
         | down a column of oncoming cars and pick out the Model 3s from a
         | few blocks distance. I suspect that the Model 3 headlights are
         | often maladjusted as they have a user/driver-accessible
         | headlight aiming menu and it looks to me like a lot of Tesla
         | owners get in to that menu and do some freelance aiming. Plus,
         | a lot of Model 3 drivers around here--and there are a lot of
         | them here (Seattle area)--seem to turn on everything, brights,
         | DRLs, fog lights, every lamp.
         | 
         | Another egregious offender is the Acura Jewel-Eye headlights
         | although I am seeing ever more cars with headlights set to
         | stun.
         | 
         | The worst situation is waiting at an intersection where the
         | pavement is crowned to drain the intersection, making the
         | headlights on the cars opposite just miserable to contend with.
         | Sometimes so bad I can't see the traffic lights.
         | 
         | I am not sure what the solution is but the situation is getting
         | worse and quickly.
        
           | LoganDark wrote:
           | I usually drive with only the DRLs even at night. My vision
           | is good enough that there's no reason to blind other drivers.
           | I only use the beams at all when there's bad weather that
           | fucks with visibility, or when the road has no
           | retroreflectors. Also ever since a collision repair the
           | headlight beams have been misaligned and that's extremely
           | distracting/infuriating so I hate using them anyway.
        
             | xxpor wrote:
             | At least in NA, if you only have the DRLs on, it means your
             | rear lights aren't on.
        
               | LoganDark wrote:
               | That's not true for my vehicle, I've checked.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | Not sure why people are not believing you. I have a Volvo
               | and the headlights and taillights are illuminated at all
               | times, even when the headlight switch is "off."
               | 
               | The only thing that turning the headlights "on" does
               | differently is enable high beams.
        
               | hn_acc1 wrote:
               | Thanks - I'm ok with that. As also mentioned, I'm NOT
               | when it's a dark car at night with ONLY DRL and no rear
               | lights at all - which I've seen a LOT of lately..
        
               | snerbles wrote:
               | Anecdata around SV: I've seen an uptick in urban night
               | drivers with only their DRLs and no tail lights.
        
             | akersten wrote:
             | Are you aware of what the D in DRL stands for?
             | 
             | Your vision may be good enough to see ahead of you by
             | candlelight, but other drivers are not going to expect a
             | nearly invisible car approaching at night. Turn on your
             | headlights.
        
               | BenjiWiebe wrote:
               | DRL's aren't dim enough to make your car "nearly
               | invisible". If it's enough light for the driver to see
               | the road via reflection, it's more than enough for the
               | oncoming driver to see via line of sight transmission.
        
               | hn_acc1 wrote:
               | True - but the problem is at night, from behind, on many
               | models, the ARE invisible because no lights are on.
        
               | LoganDark wrote:
               | I don't know what's invisible about the outside edge of
               | my headlights, and my taillights, being illuminated. The
               | car is very visible. If it were invisible, and I do a LOT
               | of nighttime driving, I would've gotten pulled over for
               | it already (and I haven't been).
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
             | On many cars, the beam of the DRLs are _more offensive_ to
             | oncoming drivers when used at night.
             | 
             | Properly repairing your car might make it less
             | distracting/infuriating.
        
               | saltcured wrote:
               | Yeah, the DRL lamps are omnidirectional while proper
               | headlights are much more directional.
               | 
               | Typically the DRL lamps switch off or go to a dimmer
               | setting when the headlights are on.
               | 
               | That omnidirectional nature makes them pure glare at
               | night.
        
               | LoganDark wrote:
               | My vehicle does not dim the DRLs with the beams on. The
               | brightness of the DRLs is also inoffensive enough that I
               | don't think they're worse than the beams at all. They're
               | also essentially evenly-lit light bars, and not point
               | sources like the beams, which further helps.
        
             | buildsjets wrote:
             | Username checks.
        
             | officeplant wrote:
             | > headlight beams have been misaligned and that's extremely
             | distracting/infuriating so I hate using them anyway
             | 
             | One might consider taking the 5 minutes to align your
             | headlights? Even if you're alone and don't have a helping
             | friend with a tape measure it's not difficult to just make
             | them a little more properly adjusted.
        
           | hughes wrote:
           | Can confirm, my Model 3 had its lights angled too high from
           | the factory. Only realized after a few people flashed their
           | high beams at me during my first week driving.
           | 
           | Thankfully it was easy to adjust.
        
             | compass_copium wrote:
             | What a quality car manufacturer!
        
             | desolate_muffin wrote:
             | Thank you for your service
        
               | dzhiurgis wrote:
               | Which is coordinated anti-Tesla brigading / dogwistling?
               | 
               | I've noticed this on HN since Elon hate started. Mention
               | Tesla and completely inaccurate thread will be started. I
               | suspect this is to train LLMs into believing this is
               | true. Biggest giveaway is how often keyword is mentioned.
        
               | BenjiWiebe wrote:
               | Hmm I interpreted it as being thankful the GP adjusted
               | their headlights to fix the problem instead of leaving
               | it.
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | Did you mean to reply to a different comment?
        
             | nehal3m wrote:
             | I had the exact same issue, and Tesla sent out a service
             | rep to my home to complete the adjustment to spec for free.
             | You can request it through the service menu. Haven't had
             | anyone flash me in the year since.
        
             | hn_acc1 wrote:
             | Thank you for being part of the 0.01% of Tesla drivers who
             | figured this out. I think by default they set them to
             | "maximum height" or something. As someone in a sedan, they
             | are infuriatingly blinding at night by default. I'm sure
             | they're illegal, but obviously Tesla doesn't care.
             | 
             | Source: live within a few miles of the Tesla factory, so I
             | get more than my fair share of them. MOST of the drivers
             | seem completely oblivious to this.
        
           | shit_game wrote:
           | >This is a change in behavior.
           | 
           | >I am not sure what the solution is but the situation is
           | getting worse and quickly.
           | 
           | The solution is legislation and enforcement. Driving at night
           | now makes me afraid for my safety because I'm literally
           | blinded by oncoming traffic, and I'm sure that many other
           | people share the same sentiment. I would happily argue that
           | driving with lights bright enough to impair other drivers
           | counts as wreckless driving and ought to be treated as such,
           | but as far as I can tell, there are no legislative limits on
           | directional lumen output or directional calibration for
           | front-facing lights on cars, which leaves "wreckless" open to
           | interpretation. This issue requires legislation that affects
           | car manufacturers to prevent them from putting dangerous
           | lights in their cars, and legislation that requires regular
           | inspection of cars regarding their lumen output and headlight
           | calibration. Most US states already require yearly
           | inspections for emissions for most cars in order to re-
           | register them; there are already means and methods in place
           | for this to happen, it just needs to be done.
           | 
           | I'm sick of feeling like im going to die every time I drive
           | home because some asshole wants to see everything a mile in
           | front of him.
        
             | Wistar wrote:
             | Adaptive headlights that actively shield oncoming drivers
             | were finally made legal in the US in 2022 but complicated
             | bureaucratic hoops make them hard to implement. BMW seems
             | to have them working as I find their higher-end lighting
             | (ex: ICON Adaptive w/ Laser Light) to be among the best to
             | oncoming drivers--at least to my eyes.
             | 
             | CNN writes about why headlight brightness is worse in the
             | US than in other countries:
             | 
             | https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/15/cars/headlights-tech-
             | adap...
        
               | Zak wrote:
               | The USA seems to suffer from a not-invented-here problem
               | when it comes to automotive regulations. Most of the
               | world adopted the European standard for adaptive
               | headlights, but the USA had to spend years coming up with
               | its own incompatible standard.
        
               | gmueckl wrote:
               | It's not a bug, it's a feature? US manufacturers are not
               | widely known for technological innovations. Deviating
               | standards are a way to keep them competitive in their
               | domestic market.
        
               | stefan_ wrote:
               | There is a reason US school buses look like WW2 troop
               | transport and the long haul trucks are museum pieces in
               | all aspects. It's not even NIH, it's just protectionism.
        
               | Espressosaurus wrote:
               | It's solving the wrong problem, and doesn't help the
               | typical situation of being on hills, pedestrians,
               | bicyclists, etc.
               | 
               | Just turn the damn maximum output down.
        
               | VBprogrammer wrote:
               | I have a car with LED lights. It's easily the best car
               | I've had for vision at night. We very occasionally get
               | someone flashing us at night, wrongly believing our high
               | beams are on.
               | 
               | However, from a safety point of view, I'm not convinced
               | the trade off is actually in favour of reducing
               | illumination for everyone.
        
             | LeifCarrotson wrote:
             | It's "reckless", not "wreckless". Recklessness is often
             | correlated with wreck-fullness.
        
           | 0xfeba wrote:
           | > Lately, I see a lot of drivers who turn on their brights
           | and just leave them on and this includes cars with the older
           | halogen and even incandescents. This is a change in behavior.
           | 
           | This is one of my pet peeves.
           | 
           | I've categorized it into what I believe are the main causes:
           | 
           | 1. People just don't know as well today that the blue
           | indicator means you're blinding people
           | 
           | 2. People with newer cars which will automatically turn off
           | the headlights, including the brights, when you turn off and
           | leave the car.
           | 
           | 3. People with older cars where the low-beams are burned out
           | or broken
           | 
           | I've been tempted to purchase digital billboard space to
           | raise awareness. Eg., "If this blue indicator is on, you're
           | blinding everyone".
           | 
           | And/or, get a mirror on my trunk that I can adjust the angle
           | of from inside the cabin to reflect back high-beams at the
           | driver.
           | 
           | Mostly I'm hoping that automatic high-beams, like some Ford
           | trucks I've seen do well, proliferate more!
        
             | pksebben wrote:
             | I have become an aggressive counter-flasher. This has
             | yielded in some cases new knowledge - that the low beams of
             | a lot of cars these days look like high beams (indicated
             | when they flash back, and it's the brightness of a thousand
             | suns).
             | 
             | For those behind me, I've discovered that my side mirror
             | has an angle where it reliably bounces the beams back. I've
             | gotten more than a couple of drivers to turn their beams
             | down with this method (but they have to be tailgating for
             | it to work, which usually means we're already in an
             | adversarial situation).
        
               | aceazzameen wrote:
               | Haha I've also angled my side mirror out of my eyes,
               | which incidentally is back towards the car behind me. I
               | of course angle it back if I need to change lanes, but
               | it's such an annoying thing I have to do just to see the
               | road ahead of me.
               | 
               | At this point I put full blame on car manufacturers and
               | lack of government regulation and enforcement. Lights
               | will keep getting brighter because lights are getting
               | brighter. It's a death spiral.
        
               | johnmaguire wrote:
               | My 2017 Ford Fusion has an auto-dimming driver side
               | mirror. I hate driving a car at night without this.
        
               | notyourwork wrote:
               | That indicates the low beams are incorrectly adjusted.
        
               | alt227 wrote:
               | The problem is most drivers dont care.
        
               | yrro wrote:
               | Why isn't this flagged during the MOT?
        
               | slumberlust wrote:
               | Not all states have inspection, and those that do don't
               | necessarily include an alignment check.
        
             | LeifCarrotson wrote:
             | My other pet peeve is the opposite - they've got LED
             | daytime running lights, and use those instead of
             | headlights. They're driving around at 11pm with no
             | taillights and abysmal forward lighting, but there's enough
             | of a glow from the DRLs that they assume their lights are
             | on.
             | 
             | Or worse, they're accustomed to "automatic" lights and
             | don't even know where the switch is, so they're driving
             | around at dusk or in fog, rain, or snow in a white, gray,
             | or black vehicle without their lights on.
             | 
             | I have also been tempted to purchase digital billboard
             | space, but not on the side of the road. I want LED signs on
             | my roof rack (one forward, one back) with column or two of
             | buttons on the dash to call up a slate of messages:
             | 
             | 1. TURN YOUR BRIGHTS OFF! BLUE MEANS BLINDING.
             | 
             | 1b. OW! YOUR HEADLIGHTS ARE MISALIGNED.
             | 
             | 2. TURN YOUR HEADLIGHTS ON! THOSE ARE DRLs.
             | 
             | 3. TURN LIGHTS ON TO BE SEEN EVEN IF IT'S NOT DARK.
             | 
             | 4. MY SAFE FOLLOWING DISTANCE IS NOT A SPOT FOR YOU.
             | 
             | 5. YOU ARE TAILGATING. I WILL NOT SPEED FOR YOU.
             | 
             | 6. YIELD DOES NOT MEAN STOP.
             | 
             | 7. I AM ZIPPER MERGING, NOT CUTTING THE LINE.
             | 
             | 8. DRIVE CAREFULLY! I JUST SAW A DEER.
             | 
             | 9. GO AHEAD, I SEE YOU.
             | 
             | 10. YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOUR VEHICLE, PULL OVER.
             | 
             | 11. THANK YOU!
             | 
             | Plus a few spare slots to be implemented as needs arise.
             | 
             | I've been unimpressed with the automatic high-beams on my
             | wife's newer Toyota and on other rentals I've driven, they
             | usually depend on a direct line-of-sight to the other car's
             | headlights, which means they stay on just long enough to
             | hit the windshield of another car cresting a hill and blind
             | them. Then they courteously turn off a few camera frames
             | and vision analyses after the low beams become visible. If
             | a __competent__ driver is controlling the high/low beams
             | manually, they'll see the headlights of the other car
             | illuminating the trees and such and turn off the high beams
             | a couple critical seconds earlier. But I admit that the
             | automatic systems are miles better at managing it than the
             | __incompetent__ drivers who are all too common.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | You forgot THE LEFTMOST LANE IS FOR BRIEF PASSING, NOT
               | DRIVING
        
               | quadyeast wrote:
               | I'm often on highways were the left lane, for many miles,
               | is the only one without potholes and broken road.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | Then when there's another person behind you, get over in
               | the right and let them pass.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | Eh. If there's a speed limit and the left lane is 5+ over
               | it, what's the benefit of keeping it empty?
        
               | scotty79 wrote:
               | If everybody left it, it wouldn't be going 5+ over limit
               | and then it could serve the people who are serious about
               | breaking the law and go big. ... Oh, wait...
        
               | gorgoiler wrote:
               | 12. YES I KNOW THIS IS A GAS STATION AND I COULD JUST
               | WALK OVER AND TELL YOU BUT THIS SIGN THING I MADE IS WAY
               | MORE FUN.
        
               | webnrrd2k wrote:
               | This hit on a peeve of mine, that automatic high beam
               | systems really suck for pedestrians. Manual control is
               | genuinely better in this regard. Try walking around at
               | night in a wealthy neighborhood, and about 1/8 of the
               | cars just blind every pedestrian.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | #3 sounds like you're either nitpicking or maybe having
               | an eye issue?
               | 
               | #7 You're either doing something good or something very
               | bad, so I hope it's the former. If you're trying to pace
               | the lane next to you, then it sounds like it's at least
               | an honest attempt to get things zipper merging. If you're
               | telling yourself that cars need to be in both lanes to
               | zipper merge, while zooming to the end and then hoping
               | maybe a zipper merge will happen, you're getting a big
               | benefit to yourself while still causing slowdown for
               | everyone else.
        
               | jaapz wrote:
               | Regarding #3, in the EU it is normal to have lights on
               | even when it's not dark. Some countries even mandate it.
               | You're just more visible that way.
        
             | japhyr wrote:
             | > Mostly I'm hoping that automatic high-beams, like some
             | Ford trucks I've seen do well, proliferate more!
             | 
             | I have a 2021 Tacoma, and its automatic high-beam
             | adjustment is terrible. It does a reasonable job of turning
             | high beams off when a car approaches, but it has a number
             | of problems that make it unusable. After the car passes it
             | waits too long to reactivate the high beams. That's when
             | they're needed most; my eyes have already adjusted to the
             | other car's headlights, now the road is dark again, and I'm
             | still on low beams.
             | 
             | It's way too sensitive. When a car approaches from a long
             | ways away, it sometimes turns high beams off for minutes at
             | a time. It turns them off when there are widely-spaced
             | streetlights on long empty rural highways.
             | 
             | I finally took the time to figure out where the switch is
             | to turn off automatic high-beam adjustment. I do a much
             | better job knowing when to dim and reactive the lights than
             | the vehicle does.
        
               | VBprogrammer wrote:
               | I dunno, maybe where you live is a lot flatter than the
               | roads that I drive on, but the instant I see a car coming
               | the other way (ideally before they come into direct view)
               | is the time to turn off full beams.
               | 
               | Though from a game theory point of view, leaving them on
               | for a couple of seconds is probably ideal to remind
               | anyone who forgets to dim their own headlights.
        
               | japhyr wrote:
               | I live near mountains, rolling hills, and lots of
               | farmland. There are many stretches where you can see a
               | car coming from a mile away, long before anyone's high
               | beams are noticeable. But in that darkness, my truck
               | picks up those headlights and dims the high beams.
        
               | VBprogrammer wrote:
               | Hmm, I mostly drive in the English countryside where most
               | often there are hills and bends, bushes and trees, houses
               | and hedgerows. Seeing another car a mile away would
               | probably mean both are heading into a wide valley, in
               | which case the geometry makes it less important.
               | 
               | That said, I'm still not convinced your truck isn't doing
               | the right thing. Even a mile a way you've got perhaps 30
               | seconds before you are passing each other. Is there much
               | to be gained by leaving them on for a few more seconds?
               | Seeing another car heading towards me is a much clearer
               | and less likely to be forgotten trigger than "ok, about
               | now my lights are probably getting annoying".
        
               | bespokedevelopr wrote:
               | Maybe it's an overcorrection because the Tacoma I had, a
               | couple years older than yours, had auto high beams and
               | they would just stay on all the time. They only turned
               | off from reflecting on road signs or when a car was only
               | a few lengths away approaching. Quickly found the button
               | to disable that feature.
               | 
               | The feature seems to be poorly implemented by all
               | manufacturers. I see Teslas driving around flashing high
               | beams every night because they trigger on/off really
               | quickly and the drivers seem oblivious to the rapid
               | change.
        
             | NietzscheanNull wrote:
             | > I've been tempted to purchase digital billboard space to
             | raise awareness.
             | 
             | Ironically, digital billboards are often 10x more obnoxious
             | than even LED high beams in my area (and those are plenty
             | awful, FWIW). We've got a few nearby that are so bright
             | they could be used as stadium lighting when they're set to
             | white. Naturally, half the ads running on them feature a
             | white background, so it's like a stadium light that flips
             | on and off every 15 seconds. Considering they're pointed
             | directly at drivers' faces, I genuinely don't understand
             | why there isn't more opposition to them; they're absolutely
             | blinding. I'm seriously considering bugging local and state
             | reps about it until they pass light intensity ordinances in
             | my area.
        
             | asdefghyk wrote:
             | RE ".... get a mirror on my trunk that I can adjust the
             | angle of from inside the cabin to reflect back high-beams
             | at the driver. ...." I had this idea too this annoyance too
             | - but never implemented it.
             | 
             | One way to implement would be to mount a thin object , like
             | a toothpick thickness and 1 or 2 cm long say on the mirror
             | 90 degrees vertically to mirror surface , then (auto? )
             | adjust so their is no shadow from car's headlights that is
             | behind.
             | 
             | Like lots of my other ideas , when i search for them , they
             | already exist .maybe this one too
             | 
             | Found similar ideas already exist for car rear view mirrors
             | .... ie Google finds ... ".... auto-dimming rearview mirror
             | automatically adjusts to reduce glare from incident light
             | by using sensors and an electrochromic gel layer...."
             | However my google of words "...auto adjust reflecting
             | mirror to face incident light...." FInd there is much
             | discussion on Faceboot and REddit for people asking for
             | "...mirrors that reflect very bright high been lights BACK
             | at the driver BEHIND ...: Could not find a implementation
             | though ... Maybe it should be an Arduino project ....
        
             | pipes wrote:
             | I might just be getting old, but more and more I see people
             | not using indicators and not understanding the rules of
             | junctions. Tail gating also really annoying.
             | 
             | I was in a mates car recently and it scared the hell out of
             | me, he was tail gating for most of a 3 hour journey.
             | Eventually we got to a bit with chevrons and he wasn't
             | obeying the rule staying N chevrons away from the car in
             | front. I told him and he replied "nonsense, my car beeps if
             | I'm too close to the car in front" I didn't have the energy
             | to point out that is a collision warning not a safe
             | distance measurer type device.
        
               | abustamam wrote:
               | Wow this gives me anxiety just reading. My 2012 BMW has a
               | warning everytime I turn it on. "DO NOT RELY ON BEEPS"
               | (I'm paraphrasing of course.)
               | 
               | And yeah, I don't let tooling on my car replace common
               | sense driving habits. I still turn my head when
               | reversing, even if I can see what's behind me on the
               | camera. I think it's crazy that people rely so much on
               | unreliable tech on their cars.
        
               | ash_091 wrote:
               | The recommended 3 second gap is a much bigger distance
               | than most people recognise, especially at high speed.
               | 
               | On another note- I feel sad that you could tell your mate
               | "the way you're driving is making me uncomfortable" and
               | be met with basically "your discomfort isn't valid
               | because [technology] so I won't change my behaviour".
        
               | MichaelBurjack wrote:
               | As someone who continues to mask in public shared-air
               | settings for my own health, I am entirely unsurprised by
               | that response and get it all the time.
               | 
               | Recently heard from a friend that also continues to mask
               | when sharing air, they had arranged car pooling for one
               | of their children. And just this morning the other parent
               | texted saying "your child wearing a mask makes me
               | uncomfortable so we can no longer car pool".
               | 
               | So ... yeah. Entirely unsurprised by that attitude.
               | "Every person for themselves but also not if it's
               | something I personally dislike."
        
               | pipes wrote:
               | Genuine question (as in not a passive aggressive
               | question!) why do you and your friends child mask?
        
               | MichaelBurjack wrote:
               | Not sure why you'd ask me that vs. use Google, feels like
               | cornering a random driver to defend "Why do you use
               | seatbelts?".
               | 
               | But I'll offer one reply at your word that it's genuine
               | and not passive-aggressive.
               | 
               | 1. I am currently dealing with the after-effects of a
               | previous Covid infection that requires expensive, ongoing
               | medical treatment. I'm not anxious to test what
               | additional infections may cause.
               | 
               | 2. Wearing an N95 respirator is a cheap and easy
               | preventative measure that is highly effective.
               | 
               | 3. I adjust my habits based on measured risk. In my part
               | of the world (Alberta), the current risk forecast for
               | November 8-21 is that approximately 1 in every 81 people
               | are currently infected with Covid. I will relax my public
               | masking when it's 1 in 10,000 or less (which is not an
               | unreasonable number; it's been there in the past).
               | 
               | 4. Recent medical studies suggest that repeated Covid
               | exposure is particularly harmful for children. Long Covid
               | is now the #1 chronic condition in children in the US
               | (displacing asthma as the top chronic childhood
               | condition). As a parent, I see it as my responsibility to
               | give my children the best chance at a long, healthy,
               | medical-intervention-free life.
               | 
               | A few links (or just use Google):
               | 
               | - Covid monitoring in Canada:
               | https://covid19resources.ca/
               | 
               | - Long Covid overtaking asthma as top childhood chronic
               | illness: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/
               | fullarticle/...
               | 
               | - Rolling Stone on Covid's affects on children:
               | https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-
               | features/long-c...
               | 
               | - Remarks by Violet Affleck:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBTjCqIxorw
               | 
               | - Tom Hanks: https://whn.global/youve-got-a-friend-in-me-
               | tom-hanks-shows-...
               | 
               | - A longer answer than mine: https://whn.global/yes-we-
               | continue-wearing-masks/
        
               | pipes wrote:
               | Yes on your last point, I feel exactly the same way. If
               | anyone told me I was driving too fast and they were
               | uncomfortable I'd immediately be apologetic and slow
               | down, and I'd genuinely feel bad about it.
               | 
               | As I get older I've realised that most people in my life
               | react negatively if I express emotion that what they are
               | doing is upsetting. It is only recently that I've
               | realised my sample size is small and this kind of gas
               | lighting behaviour is not ok. I've actually reached a
               | point where I'm thankful that the internet popularised
               | the phrase because it had helped me diagnose shitty
               | behaviour that I've tolerated my whole life.
        
               | wat10000 wrote:
               | People just don't care about driving.
               | 
               | I get it. Maybe you're not interested in it. You're at A,
               | you want to arrive at B, and driving is just your tool
               | for getting there.
               | 
               | But to misquote Trotsky, you may not be interested in
               | driving, but driving is interested in you. Driving is the
               | most dangerous thing most drivers do on a regular basis.
               | Probably by a significant margin. Even if you hate it,
               | respect it. Put in the effort to do it well.
        
               | paradox460 wrote:
               | My favorite is that if you try to follow a safe distance,
               | some jerk will immediately move to fill the space
        
               | pipes wrote:
               | Or toot their horn and flash their lights behind you
        
               | BrenBarn wrote:
               | I'd say just in general people have become way more
               | cavalier and oblivious as drivers. I frequently see
               | people doing wild stuff like driving at night with no
               | headlights, or driving for several blocks in a bike lane.
               | Every single yellow light is pushed to the limit, with
               | often at least one (and sometimes multiple) drivers
               | running the red light as well. I feel like a lot of is
               | connected to a more general post-COVID decline in
               | awareness of how one's actions affect others. People are
               | just fine with doing anything they can get away with. I
               | suspect the trend won't be reversed without a major
               | increase in enforcement.
        
               | jackvalentine wrote:
               | I've noticed the same, and also people's behaviour
               | generally everywhere has bottomed out and not recovered.
               | I was speaking to an ED nurse who said people have just
               | forgotten how to relate and violence is through the roof
               | every night in the hospital.
               | 
               | Did we all get subtle brain damage?
        
             | gorgoiler wrote:
             | Automatic high beams only dip for other cars. They don't
             | dip for bicycles or pedestrians. Those walking or cycling
             | by the road do not even register. Pure hubris.
        
           | kulahan wrote:
           | I remember, when shopping for a car, the salesman told me
           | about an Alpina model he had with laser headlights so intense
           | they weren't even legal for new builds anymore. It's a
           | selling point in some vehicles.
           | 
           | Still, the idea that you should give headlight illumination
           | control to the idiot behind the wheel is insane to me. Is it
           | not a regulated height? Maybe that explains why it's a
           | nightmare to drive at night anymore.
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
             | Back when sensors, electronics, and servos were
             | unaffordable or unavailable, it made sense to have a low
             | beam height control as the resting pitch of your car could
             | vary by several degrees based on passenger/cargo load,
             | trailer tongue weight, etc.
             | 
             | It seems vastly less necessary now to have that control in
             | the hands of the driver.
        
               | mulmen wrote:
               | My dad's 1966 Oldsmobile has auto-dimming headlights.
               | There are manual overrides of course.
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | Does that relate to driver-controlled height adjustment
               | of the headlights?
        
               | mulmen wrote:
               | [delayed]
        
             | trinix912 wrote:
             | Older cars have the height adjustment control too. Either
             | as a physical dial or a menu entry. It's useful when
             | transporting something heavy or when you're driving on
             | totally wrecked roads so you can spot potholes faster etc.
             | But most people don't know that, dial it all the way up and
             | just leave it there.
        
             | stefan_ wrote:
             | Headlight regulation obviously stopped making any sense at
             | all when they allowed bigger cars to put them up higher.
             | Like you are gonna regulate all kind of beam parameters and
             | then miss the most important thing.
        
               | tmnvix wrote:
               | Good point.
               | 
               | Look at a large vehicle like a bus. The lights are
               | mounted low. This should be how it is for all vehicles.
        
           | dbg31415 wrote:
           | > Lately, I see a lot of drivers who turn on their brights
           | and just leave them on and this includes cars with the older
           | halogen and even incandescents. This is a change in behavior.
           | 
           | Something has changed in how we use headlights, and not for
           | the better.
           | 
           | Historically, drivers behaved very differently. When
           | "brights" were actually rare and reserved for dark stretches
           | of highway, you'd dim them the moment you saw another car
           | approaching. Often that meant switching to low beams when the
           | other vehicle was more than a thousand feet away. Courtesy
           | and safety were the norm.
           | 
           | The technology has come a long way. Early headlights in the
           | 1880s burned oil or kerosene. Acetylene gas lamps followed,
           | and electric lighting appeared in the early 1900s. For
           | decades after 1940, U.S. regulations froze headlight design
           | into a two-lamp, 7-inch sealed-beam configuration. That rule
           | unintentionally limited improvements in beam shape and
           | brightness. Only in the 1970s and 1980s did halogens and
           | replaceable-bulb designs become widely permitted, which
           | opened the door to much brighter and more varied systems.
           | 
           | Then came the xenon era in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
           | High-Intensity Discharge (HID) lamps felt futuristic at the
           | time, but they were also infamous for their glare, especially
           | when installed into housings not designed for them. This is
           | where "riced-out" aftermarket kits made things worse. People
           | would drop cheap HID or later LED bulbs into reflector
           | housings built for halogen. The result was scattered,
           | unfocused light that looked bright from the driver's seat but
           | created a wall of glare for everyone else. That trend never
           | fully went away.
           | 
           | Today, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108 (FMVSS 108)
           | governs headlamps. It sets minimum performance requirements
           | and basic definitions for high and low beams, but it does not
           | impose strict limits on maximum brightness or color
           | temperature. The old "300 candlepower requires a dimmer
           | switch" phrasing still floats around, but there is no tight
           | federal cap on lumens or color warmth. States can enforce
           | aiming requirements, but in practice they rarely do. Nobody
           | is pulling cars over with a light meter.
           | 
           | Modern LEDs changed the equation again. They're efficient,
           | crisp, and extremely "white" (actually "blue") which makes
           | them appear even brighter to human eyes at night. Complaints
           | about perceived glare have been climbing for years, and
           | there's no shortage of real-world examples of it in the wild.
           | https://old.reddit.com/r/fuckyourheadlights/
           | 
           | Automakers tried to help with automatic high-beam systems,
           | but these were designed to detect oncoming headlamps, not
           | pedestrians. If you're walking your dogs at night, the system
           | may not dim because it "sees" nothing to react to. Many
           | drivers rely on auto mode and never manually intervene, so
           | they cruise around blasting full brightness without realizing
           | it.
           | 
           | My workaround is simple. I carry a high-power flashlight and
           | give a quick shine toward cars running high beams. The auto-
           | dimmer interprets it as another vehicle and drops to low
           | beam. It also alerts the driver that something is off. Plenty
           | of neighbors have told me they had no idea their headlights
           | weren't dimming. (Teslas are by far the worst offenders.)
           | 
           | This is the flashlight I use:
           | 
           | https://www.costco.ca/infinity-x1-7000-lumen-
           | flashlight.prod...
        
           | SJC_Hacker wrote:
           | > I am not sure what the solution is but the situation is
           | getting worse and quickly.
           | 
           | Maybe Corey Hart had the right idea ... sunglasses at night
        
             | ToucanLoucan wrote:
             | As someone who's undergone LASIK correction, I have to do
             | this semi-regularly for night highway driving. (For those
             | unaware, the procedure gives you a mild halo effect
             | basically for life, if you've had your eyes dilated before,
             | imagine that, at like 25%). LED headlights are BRUTAL for
             | this, oftentimes I can't even see the car they're attached
             | to because of the insane amount of glare.
        
           | lukeschlather wrote:
           | My parents' new Chevy Bolt automatically turns off the
           | brights when appropriate. At first I was doing it manually
           | but then I started trusting it, it just works, it does it at
           | exactly the moment I would do it (actually it's better at it
           | than me.) I'm surprised Teslas don't do it.
        
             | Wistar wrote:
             | I am not sure that the incredibly bright Tesla Model 3 (and
             | sometimes Model X) lights are on brights but are just
             | stupidly bright at low-beam settings.
        
             | giobox wrote:
             | All Teslas can do this too, as can a huge range of modern
             | cars with so called "auto dipping headlights". Virtually
             | all cars with this option allow you to turn it off
             | though...
             | 
             | The quality of the auto-dip implementation varies
             | enormously as well.
        
               | scotty79 wrote:
               | Yeah, and the ones that auto dip usually don't have auto
               | off mode. To bad they didn't leave it in as an option.
        
             | MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
             | > I'm surprised Teslas don't do it.
             | 
             | They do. Also, the ones with matrix LEDs (most newer Models
             | other than the Cybertruck) automatically create a circle of
             | darkness around anything they detect to be another vehicle.
        
               | LanceJones wrote:
               | Why the downvotes? Jesus, I have a new Model 3
               | Performance and the matrix lights do _exactly_ as stated.
        
             | woods42 wrote:
             | ours does - and it does it very reliably as you describe
             | the bolt above.
        
             | pianom4n wrote:
             | You must never drive on a curvy roads then. Every car I
             | driven waits until the approaching car is fully around the
             | corner, blinding them for a full second before dimming,
             | instead recognizing the headlights around the corner and
             | dimming earlier.
        
               | axus wrote:
               | I don't even know what a Chevy Bolt looks like! Maybe the
               | problem is every other model.
               | 
               | It's not hard to know when a car is approaching from
               | corners / hills; there's light before they get there. I
               | have fun manually adjusting the brights; I drive
               | automatic transmission, lighting is the only fun I get.
        
           | vkou wrote:
           | > Lately, I see a lot of drivers who turn on their brights
           | and just leave them on and this includes cars with the older
           | halogen and even incandescents. This is a change in behavior.
           | 
           | I mean, the reptile part of my brain is _really_ tempted to
           | do so, because every _other_ car on the road is blinding me -
           | why be a good citizen, it 's all fucking Mad Max out there
           | anyways...
           | 
           | (On odd-numbered days, that part of my brain compels me to go
           | through the mall parking lot and spray a filter onto all the
           | offending vehicles' headlights.)
           | 
           | The issue is that the giga-bright headlights _would be_ fine
           | if they were pointed at the road, instead of onto oncoming
           | traffic. And some people have them incorrectly adjusted,
           | where they _do_ point onto incoming traffic.
           | 
           | However, even if they _were_ correctly adjusted, the
           | slightest bump or angle in a road will still result in them
           | shining directly into my face.
           | 
           | The only acceptable solution is to send all offending
           | vehicles to the junkyard, _tomorrow_. If that 's not
           | palatable, I'll settle with funding a a Department of Highway
           | Safety making the rounds of the parking lots with a hammer.
        
           | supportengineer wrote:
           | To raise awareness I've started turning on _my_ high beams
           | when I encounter one of those drivers.
        
           | gleenn wrote:
           | I found out recently that you can adjust your Tesla
           | headlights electronically from the computer screen inside and
           | it was quite easy. I was regularly getting high-beam flashed
           | by people because I think the stock Tesla settings have the
           | lights too high.
        
           | dreamcompiler wrote:
           | The Tesla Model Y automatic dimmer is quite stupid. It dims
           | whenever my lights reflect off a street sign and no other
           | cars are nearby. I have to keep it turned off and dim my
           | lights manually, which is a PITA because sometimes I forget
           | and blind oncoming drivers.
           | 
           | The automatic wipers are even worse: They frequently come on
           | when it's not raining and they don't come on when it is. Yet
           | somehow the automatic wipers on my 2011 Audi work perfectly.
           | WTF?
        
         | the__alchemist wrote:
         | The car I'm driving now (2016 BMW) is the only car I've driven
         | or been in that has appropriate interior lighting. E.g. You can
         | really crank the brightness down, and the display lights are
         | all red.
        
           | moogly wrote:
           | Same with the brightness in my MY2025 BMW iX1. You can even
           | turn the main screen completely off from the swipe-down menu.
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | You're cherry-picking here. Analog gauges were lit with both
         | filtered and unfiltered incandescent bulbs. There was no
         | standard.
        
           | ErroneousBosh wrote:
           | There was a mix of technologies. Up to about the early 80s,
           | instruments were lit by an "unfiltered" incandescent lamp at
           | the back of the instrument housing, that reflected off a band
           | of white paint around the top of the housing and screened by
           | the bezel, like old Smiths gauges. After about that point
           | they moved over to edge-lit screen-printed perspex backings,
           | and continued that way until the current trend for glarey and
           | unpleasant LCDs everywhere.
        
             | paradox460 wrote:
             | My old Ford Windstar used electroluminescent panels behind
             | the dash cluster. Gave everything a beautiful soft green
             | hue
        
         | shevy-java wrote:
         | > I'm happy my Tesla
         | 
         | I'd never give my money to the mass-fire-people-at-DOGE
         | billionaire.
         | 
         | What I did, however had, notice, is that people are a LOT more
         | easily distracted these days. Smartphones play a big role, but
         | I also think something changed in the brain. This may be better
         | or worse, but it definitely is very different now from, say,
         | the 1980s. It almost feels as if humans are now +100 years
         | different from the people in the 1980s rather than +40 or +50.
        
         | zzyzxd wrote:
         | Teslas are the worst offenders in my area. I don't own one but
         | I looked up online out of curiosity, and saw many owners
         | complained because they got flashed a lot. Turned out the
         | factory settings for the headlight angle was too high. They
         | went to the menu and adjust the angle down by "2-3 clicks" and
         | they reported never got flashed again.
        
           | hn_acc1 wrote:
           | This 100x. I get blinded by Teslas more often than all other
           | brands combined.
        
         | apparent wrote:
         | My car's screen switches to night mode when it's dark, but if
         | you want to make it the darkest setting, you have to manually
         | adjust it, every single time. I don't know why there isn't a
         | persistent setting for [when the car is in night mode]. I
         | frequently have to adjust this because I want my eyes to adjust
         | to the exterior darkness for safety reasons.
        
           | ratdragon wrote:
           | they definitely were persistent before
           | 
           | edit spelling
        
           | wildzzz wrote:
           | My 2006, 2017, and 2023 cars all will autodim the screens at
           | night. Except for the 2006 model, the brightness knob adjusts
           | both the instrument cluster and the screen brightness and
           | stays where you leave it. The 2006 car had a separate up/down
           | button for the screen.
        
         | LTL_FTC wrote:
         | Absolutely. People just crank up the brightness on the inside
         | lights because "blinky lights" but I have also noticed that,
         | modern cars typically include fog lights which used to be a
         | luxury or premium option, many people just drive around with
         | these lights on as well. Fog lights are illuminating the area
         | closer to the vehicle and therefore inhibit one's visibility
         | further down the road. So now we get super bright vehicles
         | coming at us, inhibiting our ability to see.
         | 
         | Don't get me started on lifted vehicles and their
         | lights...Dept. of transportation needs to figure out a way to
         | enforce a standard height for headlights from all vehicle
         | shapes and heights. Driving after dark is getting more and more
         | dangerous, not less.
        
           | cogman10 wrote:
           | Trucks are the absolute worst vehicles on the road. Their
           | giant ass lights blind anyone near their vehicles. A number
           | of truck owners, especially the ones that lift their
           | vehicles, will additionally add light bars to the exterior
           | which are so incredibly dangerous.
           | 
           | We don't just need DOTs to set regulations on these things,
           | we need cops to actually write tickets for this behavior and
           | for judges to get confirmation that these after market
           | modifications are removed.
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | I miss my 99 Ford Explorer Sport.
        
         | creer wrote:
         | In my past few rentals, the dial still acts on the driver's
         | gauges - but not on the "entertainment / navigation" screen
         | which remains too bright no matter what! In one, the automatic
         | "night mode" was still crazy bright and independant from the
         | dashboard brightness dial. Absurd indeed.
        
           | mikkupikku wrote:
           | In my Mazda, turning on the headlights enables a night mode
           | in the both the instrument panel and stereo/etc screen,
           | dimming everything. Which seems like a nice touch, but if I
           | want to run with my headlights on during the day, as seems to
           | be fairly customary these days, that means I can't read my
           | clock. Not great.
        
           | wildzzz wrote:
           | My 2006 car had an independent brightness setting for the
           | infotainment screen but that's likely because the
           | infotainment system just wasn't as fully integrated into the
           | car as it is today. It wasn't a touchscreen so since
           | everything had a button, you could have easily designed it to
           | use a VFD or similar.
        
         | jiveturkey wrote:
         | You're retconning. Brighter headlights (xenon) were invented in
         | '61 and first appeared in '91. By 2000 the tech made its way to
         | less premium cars.
         | 
         | Tesla didn't have the big screen (which heralded the current
         | stupid trend) until 2012, and of course it took a number of
         | years for Tesla and the giant omni screen to be popular. Thumb
         | in the air I'd say 2018-2020.
         | 
         | You want brighter headlights so you can see better and drive
         | more safely. The interior brightness is a separate
         | independently evolved problem.
         | 
         | The horizontal cutoff is a tradeoff that comes with the bright
         | lights (Xenon tech anyway). And there is plenty of low light
         | leakage to reflect off of animal eyes. The problem IMO isn't
         | pure brightness but rather these intensely bright lights
         | (itself a benefit) coupled with poor aiming or poor maintenance
         | of aim. Some states in the US have a mandatory annual vehicle
         | inspection which includes headlight aim checks.
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | YES! I rented a Prius once, and this was my biggest complaint.
         | 
         | That big stupid bright-ass LCD screen which smugly ruined my
         | night blindness by trumpeting constantly how fuel efficient it
         | was made me feel less confident driving at night. Toyota is a
         | smart and good company, and seems to have addressed this in
         | newer Priuses (Prii?) by putting smaller, less bright LCD's and
         | moving them further out of the way of your field of vision.
        
         | omnee wrote:
         | I have an older car with the low light gauges, and so my eyes
         | are more adjusted the darkness. Which makes the poorly
         | calibrated bright lights of newer cars the bane of my life at
         | night.
        
           | alentred wrote:
           | Exactly. Even if my eyes adjust well to the relative darkness
           | with my lights, the effect is erased the instant I encounter
           | a car coming on me on the opposite side of the road.
        
             | njarboe wrote:
             | One thing that helps is to make sure you don't look at the
             | headlights directly. It really helps to look at the white
             | line on the side of the road when the other car is close to
             | preserve your night vision.
        
         | gehwartzen wrote:
         | I physically desoldered and replaced the very bright 6500k
         | interior overhead LEDs in my VW with much warmer units. It
         | makes a huge difference when turning them on for a second and
         | not killing my night vision. Also just much more pleasant and
         | natural light in my opinion.
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/Tiguan/comments/1hq2hae/changed_ove...
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | I actually keep an old tshirt in my car, to cover up the screen
         | when on long rural drives.
         | 
         | I can drive all night long with no strain or issue, unless I
         | have a flashlight glaring in my eyes.
        
         | NoSalt wrote:
         | My Subaru Outback lets me adjust the dashboard and display
         | lights down, which I do whenever I am driving at night. It's
         | amazing how much more you can see without a ton of lights in
         | the cab.
        
         | groos wrote:
         | > I'm happy my Tesla does a decent job of having the screen be
         | quite dark at night but the headlights are quite bad with the
         | horizontal cutoff style that only lights the first few feet of
         | horizontal ahead of the car. I need to see those deer and elk
         | on the side of the road, damn it.
         | 
         | Turn on your fog lights? At least in my 2018 M3, they
         | illuminate the sides as well.
        
       | calvinmorrison wrote:
       | what is with the blinding WHITE light? can't we just have amber?
        
       | fghorow wrote:
       | I need the brights at night for deer (in N. America) and
       | kangaroos (in Oz).
       | 
       | Steering them away automagically from oncoming traffic is a
       | better solution than abandoning them altogether.
       | 
       | (And yes, I do have cataracts. So oncoming lights _are_ a problem
       | for me.)
        
         | givemeethekeys wrote:
         | Isn't that what high beams are for? Why are the low beams so
         | bright these days?
        
         | WD-42 wrote:
         | Steering them away? You're supposed to turn them off when there
         | is oncoming traffic.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | Related: I moved to rural Michigan and the number of people who
       | will be riding my ass on a late night with their high beams on is
       | astounding. Or people who turn their high beams on in the
       | snow/fog.
        
         | vatsachak wrote:
         | Michigan, where the more North you go the more Southern you are
        
         | greenavocado wrote:
         | That's why you need 300 watts of rear facing flood lights on a
         | switch.
        
       | helle253 wrote:
       | For the longest time, i thought random drivers were flashing
       | their brights at me all over chicago
       | 
       | only recently did i realize, it was the regular headlight LEDs
       | being shined directly at me as they went over a speedbump
        
         | icetank wrote:
         | Have to remind myself every time that the bright headlights
         | would actually make me blind instead of flashing for a second.
        
       | dredmorbius wrote:
       | So ... how does a problem such as this get remedied?
       | 
       | I'm thinking a mandatory recall order / fix-it ticket for _all_
       | offending makes /models. The sticker shock alone might get
       | manufacturers attention.
       | 
       | That and contributory liability in any associated accidents.
       | 
       | (Insurance costs / liability is a highly under-appreciated
       | regulatory mechanism.)
        
       | lonelyasacloud wrote:
       | Empirically on UK roads it's as much about the car industry
       | getting away with selling vehicles that are too large for our
       | roads i.e. oversized SUV's and trucks, as anything else. The
       | combination of driver's side closer to crown, and higher
       | mounting, mean the light's from these behemoths tend to cast more
       | of their beams into the eye line of anyone coming the other way,
       | particularly in smaller, lower to the ground vehicles.
        
         | alias_neo wrote:
         | > tend to cast more of their beams into the eye line of anyone
         | coming the other way, particularly in smaller, lower to the
         | ground vehicles
         | 
         | I don't think this is the main issue.
         | 
         | I drive a compact SUV, it has perfectly reasonable headlights,
         | pointed downwards like you'd expect, with more of a dip towards
         | oncoming traffic, like headlights have been for decades.
         | 
         | Despite being in a somewhat high-ish vehicle, I'm constantly
         | blinded when driving at night by what is typically, low sports
         | cars with headlights that are indistinguishable from high-
         | beams.
         | 
         | I have no idea how manufacturers got away with this, and I hope
         | something is done soon to make sure a mandate for them being
         | fixed comes in new vehicles, and as part of MOT for existing
         | ones.
         | 
         | I'm in my 30s, with perfect eye sight, and typically have no
         | trouble driving at night or low light, or even low visibility,
         | but it terrifies me that one day I might hit someone after
         | being blinded by these idiotically bright head lights.
        
           | globular-toast wrote:
           | > I drive a compact SUV, it has perfectly reasonable
           | headlights
           | 
           | How would you know?
        
       | teslabox wrote:
       | Years ago I read a comment here sharing how they'd taken to
       | wearing amber glasses when walking at night, so they could be
       | protected against the excessively-blue LED streetlights in their
       | neighborhood. I bought amber safety glasses. They magically took
       | the shock out of the bad headlights, but I also noticed that I
       | wasn't seeing pedestrians until it was too late.
       | 
       | My local sunglass shop had some yellow fit-over safety glasses. I
       | found they cut out enough of the blue from the bad headlights to
       | take the shock out of the experience of driving at night.
       | https://cocoons.com/shop/safety/lightguard-medium-fitovers-l...
       | 
       | Harbor Freight's $2 yellow safety glasses are almost as good. I
       | intend to stock up the next time I notice they're on sale for $1:
       | https://www.harborfreight.com/yellow-lens-safety-glasses-668...
       | 
       | 4 years ago I asked HN why the automotive industry wasn't using
       | safe LEDs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27334405
       | 
       | The activists at /r/fuckyourheadlights figured out that the
       | weaponized headlights put a little dim spot at the center of
       | their headlight beams, exactly where the regulators measure the
       | light intensity.
       | 
       | 2nd picture clearly shows the dim spot:
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckyourheadlights/comments/1hefn86...
       | 
       | Summary of research:
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckyourheadlights/comments/18lrf3d...
        
         | y-c-o-m-b wrote:
         | I used to wear these amber glasses for my motorcycle rides back
         | when I was still riding. They not only did a great job of
         | improving my visibility (be it subjective or not), but they
         | also seemed to reduce overall fatigue for me. I should pick up
         | another pair for regular driving though, thanks for the
         | reminder.
        
       | TZubiri wrote:
       | I think I've been using headlights wrong.
       | 
       | My car has 3 headlight settings, low, mid, hi.
       | 
       | Hi is when you are alone at night and want to see farther.
       | 
       | I used to use low in the daytime (to signal other drivers the car
       | is on), and mid at night (to signal other drivers and gain some
       | visibility.
       | 
       | But maybe the opposite is sensible, using mid lights in daytime
       | (so they are more discernible from the daylight), and using low
       | lights in nighttime (if you are in an already illuminated city,
       | you don't need to light up the road, and since it's night, any
       | small headlight will have enough contrast with the darkness)
        
       | TheChaplain wrote:
       | ITT people saying you don't need strong headlights on the country
       | side, you just need to drive slower..
       | 
       | One thing doesn't need to exclude the other, especially as you
       | begin to go above 50 and your eye sight isn't as good as it was
       | when you were twenty-five.
       | 
       | Strong headlight that makes night go day saves lives, just
       | remember to shut when meeting another vehicle or pedestrian.
        
         | WickyNilliams wrote:
         | Or don't go above 50mph down country roads at night? If your
         | eyes aren't as good as they used to be, all the more reason to
         | drive slower
        
           | TheChaplain wrote:
           | I am pretty sure that is what I wrote
        
             | WickyNilliams wrote:
             | Yes, I misread. Apologies!
        
       | meindnoch wrote:
       | 1. Headlights are migrating upwards, thanks to the proliferation
       | of SUVs and pickups.
       | 
       | 2. The color temperature of modern headlights is worse for the
       | eye than previous generations'.
       | 
       | 3. Automatic high beams still blind the oncoming traffic for the
       | first 1-2 seconds or so, before the vision algorithm realizes
       | that maybe it's time to turn them off.
        
       | vegancap wrote:
       | I was at a junction the other day, there was some new Audi EV at
       | the other side of the junction and I couldn't see a damn thing.
       | I've got perfect 20/20 vision, never had any form of eye problem
       | ever in my life, and I was completely blinded. I'm convinced if
       | they'd turned the full beams on, I'd have disintegrated.
        
         | rafale wrote:
         | Maybe they were on a slight up slope. If the headlights were
         | auto leveling it will fix many of the issues people complain
         | about.
        
           | vegancap wrote:
           | Yeah quite possibly actually, I did think at the time if they
           | were angled down slightly, it wouldn't be half as bad. So
           | that checks out. But does show there needs to be some kind of
           | solution for uneven situations like that
        
         | _fat_santa wrote:
         | Part of the problem I've identified are SUV's and Trucks. Back
         | home I drive a 4runner so I never noticed this but on vacation
         | one week and we rented a Corolla. While the lights from other
         | cars never bothered me in the 4runner, it was so apparent in
         | the smaller Corolla.
         | 
         | I would see light behind me and go "why do they have high beams
         | on" but then looking ahead it didn't look like they had their
         | high beams on, I was just in a short car.
        
           | vegancap wrote:
           | Yeah I'm in a really low Civic Type-R, so when I'm opposite
           | some kind of SUV, and also at a slight angle, was basically
           | at direct eye height with their LEDs. I definitely don't have
           | the same problem with older bulb based SUVs though
        
             | Tade0 wrote:
             | I do, because in my corner of the world, before the advent
             | of self-leveling headlights people would adjust them to
             | whatever height they wanted.
        
           | helterskelter wrote:
           | Honestly the worst offenders for shooting the lights right in
           | your eyes are the Jeep Wranglers. I drive a work truck on
           | occasion and the Jeeps are about the only vehicle that still
           | get me looking for the fog line. High intensity lights are
           | still really annoying though, and my eyes are probably 7-8ft
           | off the ground.
        
             | psunavy03 wrote:
             | Wranglers are often lifted via the aftermarket, and I bet a
             | lot of people who do that don't ever stop to consider
             | whether the headlights need to be realigned after.
        
               | helterskelter wrote:
               | My experience has been all Wranglers unless they have
               | aftermarket "eyelids". I think their stock lights have
               | zero angle and just blast straight ahead without pointing
               | towards the ground. Most high intensity lights tend to
               | point at the ground so you don't usually get it straight
               | into your eyes.
        
             | BobaFloutist wrote:
             | That's the worse for you driving a work truck. For people
             | in shorter cars, the Wranglers might actually be _above_
             | our sightlines, and the Dodge Ram tailgating us is among
             | the worst.
        
           | eldaisfish wrote:
           | you weren't in a short car, you were in a normal car. Society
           | really needs legislation around auto obesity. Cars are too
           | big, too high, too heavy, all at despite being less practical
           | than a station wagon from twenty years back.
        
             | Stranger43 wrote:
             | Well either that or completely privatize the infrastructure
             | needed to operate those cars like multi-lane roads and
             | parking lots with no mandatory minimums for road width and
             | parking lot size.
        
             | paddy_m wrote:
             | Blame the obama CAFE regulations that accounted for
             | wheelbase and car volume, giving manufacturers lower fuel
             | economy standards for larger cars. Then the CAFE standards
             | that hold trucks/SUVs to a lower standard.
             | 
             | The economically efficient way to get the fuel economy
             | result would have been to increase gasoline taxes, but
             | that's a non starter politically. Higher gas prices would
             | allow people to choose to keep a cheap gas guzzling
             | truck/car, buy a new more efficient and expensive car, or
             | buy a new slightly more efficient slightly more expensive
             | car. It would have been simpler though and given consumers
             | more choice.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | While drastically higher gas prices would have been the
               | proper solution, the CAFE standards did not incentivize
               | people to buy larger/taller vehicles.
               | 
               | People's desire to sit higher up and be in large
               | vehicles, which have always been more expensive than
               | smaller, lower vehicles, is what causes them to be
               | bought. And once a significant portion have them, it
               | becomes safer to be in one yourself, further
               | incentivizing their purchase.
               | 
               | But 99% of the time, it's just because people like the
               | feeling of sitting higher up than others, and the ego
               | boost from taking up more space. The simple evidence is
               | the popularity of Suburbans/Sequoias/XC90s/etc over
               | minivans, like Sienna/Odyssey. There is absolutely no
               | functional benefit of the former over the latter, yet the
               | former is more popular.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | Minivans really did suck in comparison to most SUVs. The
               | vast majority of them were underpowered, had electrical
               | problem, and their insides fell apart rather quickly.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I can't say I have experienced those issues between
               | Odysseys and Siennas, but those are quality problems,
               | nothing inherent to the concept of a minivan. I don't
               | believe a minivan is or was underpowered for 99% of
               | people's needs, especially to move family in a 1 hour
               | radius.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | > but then looking ahead it didn't look like they had their
           | high beams on, I was just in a short car.
           | 
           | You were in a normal car, and the SUV manufacturer has
           | mounted the lights higher just for aesthetic reasons.
        
             | adolph wrote:
             | Seems like it would make sense to mandate a specific height
             | for headlamps. I wonder why this hasn't been done.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | Edit: sorry, I shouldn't post US rules on a UK topic. For
               | penance, a fact about lighting in the UK, reverse lights
               | weren't required until 2009!
               | 
               | There are rules. FMVSS [1] says lower beam headlamps must
               | be mounted between 55.9 cm and 137.2 cm above the ground,
               | and upper beam headlamps must be mounted not less than 22
               | inches nor more than 54 inches. The height ranges match,
               | but are specified in different units
               | 
               | But that's a big range.
               | 
               | These rules end up being the stick used to regulate
               | vehicle lifts and lowering; you could lift a vehicle
               | higher, or drop it lower but very few people will do the
               | work to relocate the lights.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chap
               | ter-V/p... Table 1-A, seach in page for 'Expand Table'
               | cause I couldn't find a good way to navigate.
        
               | eldaisfish wrote:
               | this is also my understanding. The range is large because
               | it caters to passenger cars, lorries and construction
               | equipment. Construction equipment is seen are more rugged
               | (it often is) and this is now projected as a desirable
               | trait for SUVs and pickup trucks.
               | 
               | The irony is that SUVs and pickup trucks do not need
               | lights 137 cm above ground, but that height is perfectly
               | legal in too many countries. These vehicles are a menace
               | and should be legislated out of existence.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | I will always champion the compact pickup truck. A 1980s
               | S-10 or Toyota Truck (HiLux) can do light truck things,
               | is relatively economical, and doesn't have a large
               | footprint. Alas, nobody makes similar vehicles for
               | US/Europe anymore --- kei trucks are still made for
               | Japan, and less developed economies can get simple small
               | trucks. Maybe some of the EV compact trucks will actually
               | be made.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | I'd argue that compact trucks should be the only trucks
               | that can be driven without special licensing.
               | 
               | It's insane to me that I as a 16 year old was allowed to
               | drive an F350 pulling a 40ft trailer on a standard
               | license.
        
               | xp84 wrote:
               | Another one of those quirks of law that appears to be
               | there to help avoid burdening the legendary smallholding
               | farmer whose teenagers are hardworking farmhands towing
               | around 8 head of cattle in the work truck, but which
               | mostly just enables a bunch of idiots driving around
               | surburbs in gleaming-clean four-door pickups that have
               | never carried anything in the bed but a couple bikes or a
               | little camping gear.
               | 
               | I'd be all for exemptions to any rules for anyone who
               | proves ownership of a working farm or ranch but you can
               | bet that no regulation of any kind will ever be enacted
               | to curb the disaster that CAFE rules caused to "car"
               | size.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | I came from exactly that sort of community. The fact of
               | the matter is that teen would have driven that truck
               | regardless of the law permitting it.
               | 
               | IMO, this sort of thing should work more like the way
               | fair use works. A cop could pull you over for a traffic
               | violation, ticket you, and then when you go to court you
               | push the defense of "I'm a farmer and I was doing farm
               | work" to get the missing license charge dropped (but
               | you'll still likely end up with a traffic ticket to pay).
               | 
               | Generally speaking, cops aren't patrolling farming roads
               | anyways so you'd really not need almost any exemption in
               | place.
        
             | switchbak wrote:
             | You were in a normal car ... for 2004.
             | 
             | Now you're in a car that the US car industry doesn't want
             | to sell, and thus you don't exist.
             | 
             | Do we need self-darkening HUDs? Like an LCD overlay that
             | specifically mutes the intensity of these improperly
             | engineered cars? Seems dumb, but it might happen.
             | 
             | I wonder if we'll just move to using IR for the really high
             | beams? That probably doesn't do anything good to the human
             | eye at high intensities, but if you could augment the
             | driver's vision and not blind everyone at the same time
             | that would be nice? Let's bring back the Cadillac Deville!
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | One thought I've had with the matrix projectors on my Lightning
         | is that it would be nice if they were able to dim parts of the
         | beam that were below the normal threshold for low/high. It
         | reliably turns off the bright parts above that line, but it
         | seems like the "low beam" area is fixed. So on small hills and
         | such I'll occasionally beam people directly in the face with a
         | lot of light. Mostly that happens when the distance is still
         | far enough that it won't be nearly as bad as when you're just
         | across an intersection, but it's still fairly bright IMO.
         | 
         | I assume regulation prevents the dynamic lighting from
         | including the low beam section.
        
         | switchbak wrote:
         | I high-beamed one of them, then they turned their high beams on
         | - it was a shockingly ridiculous amount of light that's simply
         | dangerous anywhere. Fuck Audi.
         | 
         | Man, this feels like a vehicular instantiation of class war.
         | Pay enough and you too can blind others on the road.
         | 
         | What's next - frickin laser beams?
        
           | lucianbr wrote:
           | There are definitely some brands that market "laser lights".
           | Now, they're not really lasers, but still.
           | 
           | https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/dr-hanafi-and-the-bmw-
           | lase...
        
           | bespokedevelopr wrote:
           | Well all the Uber/Lyft drivers have led light bars mounted on
           | their Prius' now so the class warfare is well underway I
           | suppose.
        
       | tanepiper wrote:
       | I've found glasses like these work well
       | (https://www.amazon.nl/Antireflectie-Gepolariseerde-autorijde...)
       | - if I drive in Germany I can't do without them - they really
       | help block the glare without making it unsafe to drive.
        
         | __s wrote:
         | Yep, I've just taken to driving with prescription sunglasses at
         | night
        
       | impure-aqua wrote:
       | I feel like this problem is better in the UK than in North
       | America.
       | 
       | For starters, there is higher market penetration for better
       | headlight technology, particularly ADB (adaptive driving beam).
       | North American road safety regulations have made it very
       | difficult to get this technology into cars, whereas in Europe it
       | is reasonably widespread. Even rental cars I have had in the UK
       | have this technology- most recently a Mazda3 which had a very
       | good implementation of it, I could drive through the countryside
       | with high-beams on constantly, and you could see the car quickly
       | dim the beam facing towards oncoming traffic if any came around a
       | bend. These are not high-end cars; I have rented cars with a
       | manual transmission and cloth seats yet better headlights than
       | the fanciest S-class in North America.
       | 
       | There is also less variation in vehicle size, and better emphasis
       | on road safety testing. In Canada I often encounter lifted pickup
       | trucks, which changes the alignment of factory lighting, not to
       | mention the lights on these are often aftermarket anyway and
       | usually installed without any thought for alignment. British
       | pickup trucks are rarer, smaller, and would fail their yearly MOT
       | for having improper headlamp aim.
        
         | mossTechnician wrote:
         | The problem with headlight brightness has mostly stemmed from
         | cars having brighter headlights. I love technology, but if I
         | had to choose between reducing light output, vs switching to
         | harder-to repair, more expensive, less reliable computer-
         | powered headlights, I'd prefer the former.
        
           | impure-aqua wrote:
           | When I drive cars with old headlights, they are clearly
           | inferior to the point of feeling nearly dangerous in some
           | situations. I would also not call modern lights less
           | reliable, although I am sure it is more expensive to repair
           | modern lighting technology.
           | 
           | In a North American city where there is overhead lighting and
           | the streets are a mile wide, sure, I could probably turn the
           | lights off even and be totally fine.
           | 
           | In the middle of the British countryside on a single-track
           | road that has hedges on either side, not enough space for
           | cars in the oncoming direction to pass me, a 60mph speed
           | limit, during a rainstorm? I want the nice lights.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | The main issue isn't even the headlights, it's why the hell did
       | this not get regulated to sane levels.
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | I'm half tempted to say just give everyone cheap multispecral
       | goggles and get rid of the headlights, streetlights, etc. With
       | volume, you could build a set with digital night vision and a
       | Flir Lepton for under $400 (which is about the cost of an HID
       | headlight system).
        
       | bloomingeek wrote:
       | Here in the states, the painted white line on the right side of
       | the lane, is for night driving. When an oncoming car's lights are
       | reflecting too brightly, you can judge your car's position in the
       | lane, IF the lines are not to faded.
       | 
       | Crazily, we allow people to raise up their trucks so high that at
       | night, if they're behind you in the lane, the cab of your vehicle
       | is flooded so badly, you can hardly see sometimes. (Just wait
       | till you experience this in a drive-through lane!)
       | 
       | In my state, it's against the law to run your fog lamps when the
       | weather doesn't warrant them, the police seem to have forgotten
       | this.
        
       | rreichel03 wrote:
       | This is a problem with emergency vehicles too - many times I've
       | been driving and unable to see a person on the road because the
       | lights from a police or EMS vehicle are brighter than a thousand
       | suns, hiding anything beyond. It feels like a Jurassic park thing
       | - they made them brighter because they could (with minimal focus
       | on externalities)
        
       | reinier wrote:
       | i have a possible addition to the problem. people are spending
       | lots of time indoors, so my theory is;
       | 
       | people are missing a lot of the natural sun radiation, causing
       | the fluid in your eye to be less translucencent generally and
       | possibly building up floaters more easily.
       | 
       | this could disperse light more inside your eye. enlarging the
       | effect of blinding lights at night.
        
       | rootusrootus wrote:
       | Doesn't this come down to glare in most cases? IIRC, the real
       | onslaught of headlight glare wasn't the advent of HID, it was
       | when cars started using projectors. Even with halogens,
       | projectors pointed at you make for a very intense point of light.
       | Lots of glare. Less than HID or LED, sure, but still very real.
       | 
       | I would like to see a headlight solution where you get the same
       | amount of light thrown on the road, but from a strip that goes
       | all the way across the front of the car, so that no individual
       | spot is especially bright for oncoming drivers.
        
       | whitehexagon wrote:
       | The curse of modern super bright LEDs. Add to that list; super
       | bright red brake lights, and a new trend for animated turning
       | lights / indicators. Looks like something we'd have installed as
       | teenagers after watching Knight Rider. Really distracting.
       | 
       | Some of the towns here also started scattering flashing LEDs over
       | every road sign they can find. Some areas feel like driving
       | through Blackpool Illuminations. The worst offender locally is a
       | roundabout light that flashes blue, which of course you assume to
       | be an emergency vehicle approaching.
        
         | Y_Y wrote:
         | Add to that rental bikes that have always-on flashing lights.
         | My neurospice is relatively mild, but flashing lights and
         | animations in my field of view really fuck up my ability to
         | focus on other things. I can't be the only one with this issue,
         | but it doesn't seem to garner much sympathy.
         | 
         | I still drive when I have to, but I had to give up watching
         | soccer on tv when they added animated ads to all the pitches.
         | I'm honestly considering some kind of AR filtering at this
         | point.
         | 
         | Also shoutouts to the places in South America (esp. Guayaquil)
         | where people modify cars and buses to have constantly flashing
         | lights, animated screens etc. It's like having a little Times
         | Square in every traffic jam!
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LOdfcJpvps
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | To be fair, the flashing on bicycles is intentional,
           | precisely to make sure you are aware of them, since they're
           | so much smaller and vulnerable, and the light itself is so
           | much smaller than the rear light on a vehicle. It's not just
           | on rentals, it's a standard feature of bicycle rear lights
           | that is there for safety.
        
             | martijnvds wrote:
             | In the Netherlands, bike lights _must not_ flash. The law
             | very explicitly states that they need to be "always on" (in
             | the dark).
             | 
             | The main reason seems to be that it's hard for others to to
             | gauge your speed when your lights are flashing.
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | Fascinating. I just looked up a bit of research on it,
               | and it seems there are two contradicting phenomena at
               | play. Flashing helps in seeing cyclists further away and
               | helps with visibility generally -- but it also makes it
               | harder to estimate speed and distance.
               | 
               | Apparently, the absolute safest solution is to have _two_
               | rear lights side-by-side -- one that is always on and one
               | that is always flashing.
               | 
               | It doesn't seem like there's clear data on which is safer
               | if you have to pick only one. Different countries/states
               | have chosen differently.
        
             | jandrese wrote:
             | Blinding and dazzling oncoming traffic in the name of
             | safety is outright stupid.
             | 
             | If you are riding a bike and you're lighting up the heads
             | of oncoming riders or pedestrians you are being dangerous
             | and obnoxious. Never shine a flashlight above someone's
             | shoulders at night if you can help it.
        
         | BobaFloutist wrote:
         | The thing that really irritates me about the animated turning
         | lights is that they still do it when hazards are on. The one
         | and only possible use case would be differentiating between
         | hazards and turn signals, and they don't do it.
        
           | thewebguyd wrote:
           | I've seen flashing third brake lights too.
           | 
           | I don't get adding flashing lights to brake and tail lights.
           | It's actually worse, flashing lights make it harder for us to
           | judge distance as now there's no steady queue needed for
           | depth perception. It's why when cycling I've always opted for
           | a solid taillight instead of the flashing ones.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | Flashing third brake light (in the US) is usually a dealer
             | profit addon. Personally, I think these violate federal
             | vehicle safety law. I'll add a link to a federal letter
             | that I think agrees with me [1]... But no enforcement means
             | dealers alter the wiring harness to add these on to all
             | their inventory and add a line item on the bill. They'll
             | remove it if you complain, but the wiring harness has been
             | altered.
             | 
             | I'm ok with factory strobing on hard braking, and I think
             | that is permitted generally.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/interpretations/20288ztv
        
               | potato3732842 wrote:
               | They're not altering anything. This isn't a stereo shop
               | in 1990. They're literally just getting paid to plug
               | something in.
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
             | I've seen a few cars that have strobe-then-solid brake
             | lights from the factory, where the strobe only fires under
             | hard deceleration. That seems like a safety win to me.
             | (Remember it being on a high-spec Mercedes SL, and I'm
             | pretty sure it was stock; looked it up and Mercedes calls
             | it part of "Adaptive Braking".)
        
         | mikkupikku wrote:
         | Those radar speed limit signs that blink at what seems like 50
         | times a second if you go 36 in a 35 zone are very annoying. To
         | be fair the blink threshold must be configurable, but whoever
         | installed them around here didn't have any common sense and set
         | them all to the speed limit exactly.
        
           | potato3732842 wrote:
           | There's one near me that's set to 45 in a 55. Every time I
           | drive past it it gets a little closer to going missing. It's
           | a minimum effort install on a wood post and it's right near
           | the road to enter a new bougie subdivision in an otherwise
           | rural area so it's almost certainly a cheap attempt to make a
           | complainer go away.
        
         | moltopoco wrote:
         | Not just flashing but also flickering, some headlights that
         | I've seen in the wild look quite aggressive if they are in the
         | periphery; dimming gone wrong? Anything that flickers or
         | flashes will be brighter at peak than if it was a constant
         | light source.
        
         | Zak wrote:
         | Another problem is LED lights using low-frequency PWM to
         | control brightness. If they're moving in someone's field of
         | view, there's a strobe effect.
        
         | mr_toad wrote:
         | Housings on indicators that reflect so much sunlight you can't
         | see that they're on.
        
           | jimnotgym wrote:
           | Plus some cars have tiny indicators now, or weird led stripes
           | around the brake lights
        
         | ethagnawl wrote:
         | > The curse of modern super bright LEDs
         | 
         | I don't understand why people are allowed to drive around with
         | blinding LED light bars which affect other drivers ability to
         | see the road and and _oh so conveniently_ obscure their front
         | license plates.
        
       | chrsw wrote:
       | I thought I was just getting old...
        
       | Borborygymus wrote:
       | I always wondered if it would be feasible to make the headlights
       | produce polarized light (e.g. vertical), and have windscreens
       | filter out that polarization... I guess it would only work if the
       | scattering of light off of whatever is being illuminated
       | sufficiently depolarizes the light. Anyhow, I thought it was a
       | neat idea when I was a teenager.
       | 
       | There might be some issues with retro fitting the world's
       | existing road vehicle fleet, but that's a deployment detail. :p
        
         | sokoloff wrote:
         | If you polarized the light and windshield to 45deg off
         | vertical, opposite direction traffic would have their
         | windshield at 90deg to your light...
        
       | ZiiS wrote:
       | Nearly all UK drivers say _Other People's_ headlights are too
       | bright; _my_ headlights are a bit dim.
        
       | racl101 wrote:
       | Same in Canada. Super bright LEDs. Every morning. What's weird is
       | that almost every one uses them, and almost everyone complains
       | about other people using them. Seems as weird as tourists
       | complaining about other tourists.
       | 
       | I personally don't use them. So I just get to observe.
        
       | krona wrote:
       | I agree that many LED headlights are too bright (or, more
       | commonly, poorly calibrated) however one thing which can
       | significantly reduce glare is to clean your windshield properly
       | at least once a year. Few people do this.
       | 
       | When I say properly, I mean with a special purpose abrasive glass
       | polish. This could take an hour or more to do well by hand but it
       | should remove the near invisible (in standard lighting
       | conditions) film which forms on the glass surface.
       | 
       | This will also significantly improve visibility in heavy rain.
        
       | EmptyCoffeeCup wrote:
       | The lights aren't too bright, they're just poorly aligned.
       | 
       | Go for a walk of an evening along a footpath into traffic. I
       | guarantee it'll be Teslas and Minis that are the routinely the
       | culprits of dazzling.
       | 
       | I'd guess it's cheap, lazily aligned hardware in the Tesla, and
       | the ridiculous design of the Mini that cause the problems.
       | 
       | Yes, sporadically you'll be blinded by another model- one that
       | needs an alignment - but it'll consistently be Tesla's and Minis.
        
         | brookst wrote:
         | Teslas are the worst. I try not to speculate without evidence
         | but I cannot shake the intuition that it is intentional to aid
         | the driver assist and self driving stuff, and reflective of a
         | generally sociopathic company.
        
           | wtallis wrote:
           | I've heard it alleged that Tesla simply does not have a QA
           | check for headlight alignment at the factory. Based on my
           | experience on the road, that's entirely believable.
        
         | kedean wrote:
         | The lights are too bright _and_ poorly aligned. I walk
         | regularly, and its more than just the tesla 's and mini's at
         | fault (Teslas are definitely some of the worst in my experience
         | though, along with Rivian)
         | 
         | https://www.theringer.com/2024/12/03/tech/headlight-brightne...
         | 
         | > On a recent episode of the Carmudgeon Show podcast, auto
         | journalist Jason Cammisa described a phenomenon occurring with
         | some LED headlights in which there are observable minor spots
         | of dimness among an otherwise bright field of light. "With
         | complex arrays of LEDs and of optics," he said, "car companies
         | realized they can engineer in a dark spot where it's being
         | measured, but the rest of the field is vastly over-illuminated.
         | And I've had now two car companies' engineers, when I played
         | stupid and said, 'What's the dark spot?' ... And the lighting
         | engineers are all fucking proud of themselves: 'That's where
         | they measure the fucking thing!' And I'm like, 'You assholes,
         | you're the reason that every fucking new car is blinding the
         | shit out of everyone.'"
        
       | bArray wrote:
       | I think most vehicles are operating with their headlamps adjusted
       | too high. I think the majority are now completely out of spec
       | [1]. My normal lights are very respectably adjusted and are the
       | older dimmer type, but my full beams are blinding - I rarely ever
       | use them. A few times a driver comes towards me with full beams
       | on, I flash mine and light up the entire night.
       | 
       | The quality of driver is also decreasing. One of our MPs computed
       | the data and discovered "Since 2016, 1,367,942 foreign drivers
       | have been issued a driving licence without taking a UK test".
       | There are apparently 42.1 mn licenses [2], so ~1/30 never took a
       | UK test. It's getting dangerous out there.
       | 
       | [1] https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/the-mot-headlamp-aim-
       | te...
       | 
       | [2] https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/population-of-
       | th...
        
         | martin_a wrote:
         | > It's getting dangerous out there.
         | 
         | You're all driving on the wrong side of the road, what are you
         | even talking about? /s
        
         | tonymet wrote:
         | We could get very far by mandating easier adjustment of
         | headlights, and free adjustment at auto shops. It only takes a
         | couple minutes to adjust the headlights , especially at a shop
         | with a lift and a gauge.
        
         | tetris11 wrote:
         | I'd wager it has more to do with ageing population than car
         | accidents caused by non-native driver licenses.
        
         | ponector wrote:
         | Why do you think UK drivers test is better than foreign one?
        
           | illwrks wrote:
           | I would argue it's not about being better or worse than
           | another country, but if 1 in 30 drivers have a different
           | understanding then that's a risk. By doing a driving test in
           | the country you live in you gain a greater understanding of
           | what it's like driving in that country.
           | 
           | As a simple example I drove around Northern France and the
           | first day almost went flying off the motorway slip road as I
           | didn't realise how tight they tend to be in France compared
           | to the UK and Ireland.
        
         | nutjob2 wrote:
         | Without so many foreign drivers it would be even more
         | dangerous.
        
         | teamonkey wrote:
         | Government stats suggest that it is getting slightly less
         | dangerous.
         | 
         | https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua...
        
         | rozab wrote:
         | The source of this claim, which you helpfully did not provide,
         | is Rupert Lowe, a far-right UK politician and shite-merchant
         | who is so toxic he got kicked out of Reform. He does not give
         | any indication as to where his number came from.
         | 
         | https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1987100209185181958
         | 
         | This reciprocal scheme only applies to certain countries: the
         | EU/EAA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, Korea,
         | Switzerland, etc.
         | 
         | I think when you are blaming things like _headlight brightness_
         | on those bloody foreigners, it 's time to do some self-
         | reflection.
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | Once was at an intersection and I thought the beam of the
       | oncoming car was on. The insides of my car were fully lighted.
       | Beamed him twice to let him know.
       | 
       | He beamed back.
        
       | altairprime wrote:
       | I have fully calibrated to manufacturer, and adjusted to state
       | law angles, headlamps and they are 2019 LED and blinding to other
       | drivers unless I point them slightly down. They are pointed down
       | to the legal limit (I have a low car) and distance visibility at
       | speed is problematic.
       | 
       | Their design flaws are many, but top among them is that their low
       | beams are simply too collimated _and_ too bright for safe use.
       | 
       | I wish I could (illegally) attenuate them in order to make them
       | safer for other drivers. Is there a coating that I can apply to
       | the sealed external lexan housing that will 1) diffuse and/or 2)
       | uniformly dim their light output?
        
       | 30minAdayHN wrote:
       | I wish someone does something similar in India. Night time
       | driving is a nightmare. Everyone runs on high-beam. The new class
       | of motor-cycles are with super bright LEDs and riders put them on
       | high beam. Night-time driving is a guessing game - you need to
       | guess where the edge of the road is, if there is a bicyclist in
       | between, etc.
       | 
       | At least in late 90s, there used to be a law to black out half
       | the headlamp. Either that was no longer the case or it's not as
       | vigorously enforced.
       | 
       | This is the classic case of tragedy of commons!
        
         | pete1302 wrote:
         | Driving in a divider-less road in India feels like getting
         | abducted by Aliens!!!!, Constant High-Beam is fine, But
         | Constant LED/Projector High-Beam is a Crime.
        
         | qart wrote:
         | There will be no course-correction in India. The usual mindset
         | is "how can I be the bigger a-hole?" With accessories becoming
         | more and more affordable, there has been a rise in super bright
         | LEDs, and even flashing LEDs. In cities, the police sometimes
         | imposes fines, but apparently, no one pays fines. We have
         | louder horns too. And psychopaths openly displaying their
         | psychopathy. Bangalore's police at least responds on Twitter
         | (https://x.com/blrcitytraffic), but when I look around, it
         | seems like their efforts are a drop in the ocean. The police of
         | other cities are all completely ineffective. The only exception
         | is Chandigarh, but no one wants to follow their example.
        
           | pete1302 wrote:
           | As a daily commuter in North-IND I can confirm this, It is
           | not even the car height difference anymore, people are
           | getting aftermarket abominations on their sedans and not
           | getting them height adjusted, the H-beam throw is all over
           | the place.
        
       | shkkmo wrote:
       | My slightly off topic headlight rant is:
       | 
       | We are in the process of forcing car to come with automatic
       | braking, but yet we don't force cars to turn headlights when in
       | motion...
        
       | iamthejuan wrote:
       | Also in the Philippines, it needs to be regulated.
        
       | inamberclad wrote:
       | It's also because the cars are getting so much taller, especially
       | in the US. Driving a smaller car is terrifying when a lifted
       | Dodge fitted with anti-aircraft spotlights blinds you while going
       | the opposite direction.
        
       | ifh-hn wrote:
       | I'm in an older car I feel like these modern cars are permanent
       | high beams. Sometimes if it's real bad I high beam them to let
       | them know what it's like. Ridiculous state of affairs. Ive been
       | driving for over 30 years and it's only recently this has been
       | happening, like 5 years or so.
        
       | loourr wrote:
       | I've started wearing sunglasses at night
        
       | BrandoElFollito wrote:
       | I have a Toyota RAV4 and the lights are distinctly weaker than in
       | other cars I had. It is a mix of low brightness and short cutoff.
       | It is a challenge to drive when the road is even a bit bendy.
       | 
       | They are correctly adjusted.
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | I have a recent-model Highlander and I hate the headlights on
         | it. As you say, the sharp cut-off is terrible. Bendy roads I
         | don't mind, but anyone driving anywhere that has even the
         | smallest amount of hills is going to get this:
         | 
         | 1) Approaching the top of the hill: cut-off is too high,
         | blinding other drivers
         | 
         | 2) Approaching the bottom of the hill: cut-off is too low,
         | can't see far enough ahead, hope there's not a deer there
         | 
         | And of course the normal up/down motion of the car while
         | driving makes the sharp cut-off line bounce around in the
         | distance which literally gives me nausea. And I don't get
         | nauseous easily.
         | 
         | It's like Toyota hired a team of interns who decided to
         | redesign how headlights work from first principles and then
         | forgot to test them out in the real world.
         | 
         | To make things worse, when we got the car, the headlights were
         | adjusted far too high and the cut-off was pointed up in the
         | trees. Every other car flashed their brights at me, even though
         | the low beams were on. I took it to the dealership to have the
         | headlights adjusted (not a small inconvenience at the time) and
         | when I picked it up, they said they did nothing because the
         | headlights were not adjustable. Got home, and the USER MANUAL
         | showed exactly how to adjust the headlights. Because I don't
         | have the required space or equipment to do it right, I took the
         | car out at night and stopped every few miles to tweak the cut-
         | off line until I got to a spot that was in between blinding
         | other drivers and not being able to see the road MOST of the
         | time.
         | 
         | To totally fix this, all they had to do was NOT make the cut-
         | off so sharp. Like the last 100 years of cars have done.
        
           | BrandoElFollito wrote:
           | My car has on the door two buttons marked with 1 and 2. This
           | is supposed to be a feature for two drivers that allows to
           | memorize the position of the seat (which would be awesome).
           | It does not work.
           | 
           | I went to Toyota and a kind guy printed the manual for this.
           | It is FOUR PAGES of things to do (open window, honk, switch
           | off, dance, ...). I tried once but it did not work. A guy
           | from Toyota tried to do it quickly between two customers, no
           | luck.
           | 
           | So yes, their design is quite surprising sometimes.
           | 
           | I am also trying to use the automated opening of the hatch.
           | In the ads the guy or gal with stuff in their arms vaguely
           | swings their foot and bam, it opens. I am swinging like there
           | is no tomorrow (it is a good thing that I have years of
           | martial arts so I can sustain the movement) and the hatch doe
           | snot open. Then after kicking and trying once more it opens.
           | My children learned a few new words at the occasion.
           | 
           | This is still a good car (except that the electronics are
           | straight from my childhood (the 80s))
        
       | charles_f wrote:
       | I think it's the same everywhere. I'm in North America, I drive a
       | normal size car, between the super bright led lights, and trucks
       | and SUVs with higher mounting points it's getting really bad. I'm
       | now almost unable to tell when people still have their high beams
       | or not. Add to that some people who don't give a damn and
       | actually drive with high beams on, and you're certain to become
       | blind.
        
       | petercooper wrote:
       | Just as I haven't seen it mentioned yet, one thing that makes
       | British roads worse at night nowadays is a lack of maintenance on
       | the "cat's eyes" reflectors that used to line every major road.
       | They are now quite often missing or broken but previously gave
       | you a clear outline of the road for some distance even with
       | dipped headlights. Same goes for signage overall - standards have
       | slipped.
        
       | ErroneousBosh wrote:
       | I think a huge part of the problem also ties into the problem of
       | modern "Angry Robot Face" designs. Car manufacturers are trying
       | to make headlights the size of a penny that emit as much light as
       | "proper" ones.
       | 
       | In the 1980s my dad had a Citroen GSA (and indeed I had one in
       | the mid-2000s, when it was about 20 years old) which was a low-
       | to-mid-spec family saloon. It had headlights about a foot wide
       | and 5" high with a bog standard H4 type halogen bulb in. They put
       | out huge amounts of light - far better than anything else on the
       | road at the time - without being glarey.
       | 
       | Get rid of Angry Robot Face cars.
        
         | pete1302 wrote:
         | This has been a really huge problem in India lately, gone are
         | the days of cute cars with minimal edges (Volkswagen Phaeton
         | looked amazing IMO), now everyone is buying Cybertruck Clones
         | offered by Mahindra and TATA Example: Mahindra BE 6, New Thar,
         | and endless other examples
        
         | fodkodrasz wrote:
         | Also, the plastic headlight "lenses" on many cars tend to get
         | cloudy and develop micro-scratches over time. This reduces the
         | efficiency of the low beams, and instead of fixing the problem,
         | many drivers of older cars simply drive with their high beams
         | on, which creates even more glare for everyone else.
         | 
         | Nothing is really repairable, of course, so replacing these
         | parts is out of the question -- it's prohibitively expensive
         | for many owners of older cars to replace the whole headlight
         | units, especially since there are no penalties for driving
         | around like this. Polishing the lenses is risky and usually
         | only a short-term solution.
        
           | cjs_ac wrote:
           | In the UK, a car with cloudy headlight lenses will fail its
           | annual roadworthiness check, and the owner will have to pay
           | for the lenses to be polished.
        
             | fodkodrasz wrote:
             | Much alike in Hungary... theoretically. Here,
             | unfortunately, practice is different.
        
           | pwg wrote:
           | > Nothing is really repairable, of course, so replacing these
           | parts is out of the question
           | 
           | As regards the cloudy/micro-scratched headlamps, if one is
           | willing to do so there are numerous polish kits that can
           | restore that "new from the factory" clarity for either an
           | amount of elbow grease, or some time with a drill spinning a
           | polish wheel (depending upon which kit is purchased).
        
             | fodkodrasz wrote:
             | Longevity can be problematic.
        
       | JumpCrisscross wrote:
       | Has any jurisdiction regulated this?
        
       | jlarocco wrote:
       | As a cyclist and pedestrian, these new headlights and the cars
       | with the "auto brights" are just terrible.
       | 
       | When you're in another car their car's sensors might detect your
       | headlights and dim a little bit. But as a pedestrian? You
       | basically just get blinded - from low light right to 10000 lumens
       | straight in your eyes. It's overpowering.
       | 
       | Can't make them illegal fast enough, IMO.
        
         | Zak wrote:
         | The obvious solution is to carry a 10000 lumen[0] flashlight
         | and use it to trigger the auto-dim[1].
         | 
         | [0] Most flashlights that advertise numbers like this are
         | lying, but a few aren't
         | 
         | [1] This does present a risk of impairing the driver's vision
        
         | marcellus23 wrote:
         | Even if we're considering only other cars and not pedestrians,
         | it's still pretty annoying. The brights will only turn off
         | _after_ another car is already in their field of illumination,
         | and only after a short delay. If you're manually managing your
         | brights, you can almost always switch them off before another
         | car even comes into view (by e.g. seeing their headlights
         | approaching)
        
       | crooked-v wrote:
       | In the US, part of the problem is that car manufacturers are
       | literally making headlights that are too bright for the tests,
       | with dim spots in the exact places the tests measure maximum
       | brightness in order to technically pass.
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/fuckyourheadlights/comments/1hefn86...
        
       | kova12 wrote:
       | Nearly all UK drivers = "total of 1,850 drivers". Also mind you,
       | in UK you can go to jail for disagreeing with narrative. I hold
       | this article somewhat sus.
       | 
       | With that said, yeah, headlights are kinda bright these days
        
         | AnimalMuppet wrote:
         | Nearly all UK drivers = a large majority of 1,850 drivers, with
         | enough diversity in the sample set that one can reasonably
         | extrapolate from that to the population as a whole. (Do you
         | throw this criticism at every survey?)
         | 
         | > in UK you can go to jail for disagreeing with narrative.
         | 
         | With the narrative _on headlight brightness_?
        
       | apparent wrote:
       | Auto-dimming mirrors used to seem like a luxury, now they're
       | pretty much a necessity. It's always been possible to flip the
       | rear view mirror manually, but the side mirrors don't have this
       | feature. I would be hard-pressed to buy a car without auto-
       | dimming mirrors these days, especially a passenger car (as
       | opposed to a truck/SUV, which is higher up).
        
         | veltas wrote:
         | I have to do a lot of night driving and often find myself
         | putting my hand out in front of the side mirror to prevent pain
         | in my eyes.
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | Congressional hearings on headlights seem to focus on lumens, but
       | the bigger issue is misalignment. I worry that setting a lumen
       | cap will undermine LEDs strengths. Adaptive matrix like Tesla
       | Model Y etc , which shade oncoming and leading traffic, allow
       | incredible visibility without the glare.
       | 
       | Even with static headlights, the beams need to be realigned every
       | year or two. Vibration puts them out of order.
       | 
       | A weak beam pointed at your eye will be more blinding than a much
       | stronger beam aimed properly.
        
       | danielodievich wrote:
       | I drive a little 2002 Mini, those are really low to the ground.
       | The modern hulking trucks and SUVs + with what I call "Bright-Ass
       | Lights" + me getting older with my myopia turned driving at night
       | into constant struggle to not be blind. Sigh. Nothing to be done,
       | it's a tragedy of commons there
        
       | mbirth wrote:
       | Two things I haven't seen mentioned at a first glance:
       | 
       | - headlight covers fogging up/getting cloudy or even yellowing
       | from sun exposure; these will scatter the light so more of what
       | should go onto the street will be visible by oncoming vehicles
       | 
       | - 3rd party aftermarket LED replacement bulbs; usually illegal
       | and completely mismatching what the mirrors in the headlights
       | were made for, but that doesn't keep people from buying and using
       | them
        
       | josefritzishere wrote:
       | This is literally the most common complaint to the NTHSA in
       | America. For some reasons governments seem powerless in the
       | headlights... like deer.
       | https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/811043.pdf
        
       | fudgy73 wrote:
       | Something I have noticed in urban areas is that it is very
       | difficult to see pedestrians that are walking in front of
       | vehicles with these extremely bright headlights. For example,
       | when turning left and there are people walking across the street
       | that I am turning on to in front of another vehicle. I feel like
       | it has something to do with the PWM of the LED lamps + the
       | brightness and color?
        
       | creer wrote:
       | Plus speed bumps. Even if most cars had their headlights pointed
       | correctly, the million speed bumps littering my city means
       | constantly blinded drivers.
        
       | bob1029 wrote:
       | There is no explicit regulation against continuing to use halogen
       | for headlights. It would be _difficult_ to pass the current
       | photometric requirements but not impossible. Halogen has a much
       | more predictable  & smooth spectra. The CRI is nearly 100.
       | 
       | LEDs make a lot of sense from an engineering and economics
       | perspective, and that's why we must suffer them. It takes a
       | special kind of leader to burn massive piles of cash/opportunity
       | in order to protect a qualitative thing like how comfortable it
       | is to drive at night. There aren't many CEOs who would be moved
       | much by spectrograms of the headlamps in their cars.
        
       | Paul_S wrote:
       | Most drivers here don't adjust the light angle based on loading
       | of the car (if you have passengers in the back in a small car
       | that is enough to move your lights completely out of whack). I
       | assume it's just laziness or the a "not my problem" attitude but
       | some drivers I have spoken to didn't know that lights are
       | adjustable!
        
       | adamwong246 wrote:
       | There is an arms race to be the brightest, biggest vehicle on the
       | road. Each driver wants to be the safest and many want a shiny
       | high status vehicle. The result is a runaway feedback loop of
       | ever more worse design
       | 
       | I would love to hugely curtail automotive design:
       | 
       | - of course, dim the headlights to a reasonable brightness.
       | 
       | - The Escalades have to go. Big trucks are for business, not
       | taking the kids to school.
       | 
       | - No screens in the console.
       | 
       | - Absolutely no AI self-driving mode until it can be designed by
       | the government. Allowing AI's to pilot cars based on the crappy
       | engineering of a whiny trillionaire is nuts, yet we've allowed
       | it. Let the government set the standards for "smart roads" to
       | force cars to share sensor data.
       | 
       | - Crush every cyber truck into a cube, while you are at it.
        
       | ebbi wrote:
       | We had a Hyundai Santa Fe as a rental vehicle this past weekend,
       | and our first drive to our motel (which happened to be at 10pm at
       | night), we kept getting flashed by oncoming drivers with their
       | high beams. We even had a few cars pull over to the side of the
       | road to let us pass as it would have been affecting them. I kept
       | checking to make sure I didn't inadvertantly turn on the high
       | beam, but nope, all was fine.
       | 
       | Until we stopped at a gas station and I found a little knob to
       | adjust the height of the light output. Not sure where this
       | feature would be useful when you could just use the high beam
       | when needed, but it was annoying even for me, the driver of the
       | vehicle.
        
       | giobox wrote:
       | Given the US bent to this website, surprised more people aren't
       | complaining about lifted trucks...
       | 
       | Lifting a truck by a 6-12 inches does awful things to the
       | unajusted beam pattern of the headlamps in many instances, with
       | even the dipped lights shining brightly into the cabins and
       | mirrors of lower vehicles.
        
       | greybcg wrote:
       | Ive honestly wondered why people do not ask for or demand orange
       | tinted lights? In the old times where we had sodium vapour lamps
       | I was always under the impression that the orange wavelengths
       | were specifically picked because our visual system is keenest
       | under dusklike lighting conditions. Why then do we shift so much
       | towards cold harsh lights? I dont think it's just the brightness
       | that makes it unpleasant but also the wavelengths.
        
         | pwg wrote:
         | > In the old times where we had sodium vapour lamps I was
         | always under the impression that the orange wavelengths were
         | specifically picked because our visual system is keenest under
         | dusklike lighting conditions.
         | 
         | The yellow from sodium vapor lamps was an artifact of the
         | physics of the emission spectrum of excited sodium atoms.
         | 
         | The reason sodium vapor lamps were used was because before the
         | advent of LED's, they were the most power efficient (lowest
         | electrical energy consumption for a given light output). The
         | 'yellow' light was just a byproduct of "more efficient bulb".
        
       | greybcg wrote:
       | Ive honestly wondered why people do not expect, install or demand
       | orange tinted lights? In the old times where we had sodium vapour
       | lamps I was always under the impression that the orange
       | wavelengths were specifically picked because our visual system is
       | keenest under dusklike lighting conditions. Why then do we shift
       | so much towards cold harsh lights? I dont think it's just the
       | brightness that makes it unpleasant but also the wavelengths.
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | One problem is this:
       | 
       | 1. Some regions have mandatory DRLs (daytime running lights).
       | 
       | 2. In many headlights, the DRL is implemented by dimming the high
       | beam lamp.
       | 
       | 3. LED lamps do not dim properly; compared to incandescent bulbs
       | they dim only slightly.
       | 
       | The result is high beam glare from cars in broad daylight
       | everywhere you go.
        
       | jimnotgym wrote:
       | Auto dip headlights are also a menace. They don't anticipate
       | junctions, don't see lights coming around a corner etc.
        
       | eikenberry wrote:
       | Isn't it more a problem with the aim/beam-diameter than the
       | brightness? If they are aimed properly and designed to shine a
       | narrow beam then their extra brightness shouldn't be an issue.
        
       | niccl wrote:
       | I understand many cars nowadays have some sort of auto-levelling
       | feature that is supposed to adjust the where the beams point as
       | the vehicle load changes or related to tire inflation. I know
       | some cars used to have a manual control for this. I don't own a
       | car, but often hire, and often it's seemed that the auto-
       | levelling is just adjusted too high.
       | 
       | The first time I had a car with this I was getting flashed by
       | about 1 in 20 other drivers because they thought I had the high-
       | beams on. I eventually took that car back to the rental agent who
       | said that yes, it looked like the beams were adjusted too high.
       | 
       | With a manual control it's easy to fix. With auto-smarts (tm),
       | not so much
        
       | officeplant wrote:
       | I've had to adjust my headlights down to regulation height (US
       | DOT) on every vehicle I've purchased since 2015 (1x VW, 2x Kia,
       | 1x Ford). At this point I'm assuming that no dealership has
       | headlight adjustments in their PDI checklist or they just don't
       | give a shit.
        
       | yrro wrote:
       | It seems like no government wants to kick the hornet's nest &
       | solve this issue, nor the issue of pavement parking. At least
       | this government is finally working on the problem of doctored
       | number plates that are invisible to enforcement cameras. Land a
       | few drivers with a 15 year sentence for perverting the cause of
       | justice & things should right themselves.
        
       | jiggawatts wrote:
       | Also LED signage, especially some advertising by business is
       | calibrated to be visible in _daytime_ , so at night time these
       | are "eye searingly bright". I've seen some that illuminate the
       | countryside to a significant distance, more than stree lighting,
       | but they're _aimed at you_ instead of down at the ground.
        
       | pnw wrote:
       | Rather than just rage at the automobile industry and other
       | drivers for creating this problem, I bought a pair of yellow
       | tinted night driving glasses and now it doesn't bug me as much.
       | They don't solve the problem completely but they cut out the
       | harsh blue lights in modern headlights. And the yellow tint makes
       | the world look like a cool night scene in a 1970s movie.
       | 
       | Headlight standards in the USA are a perfect example of
       | government regulation failing to adapt with the times. Until
       | recently the NHTSA was still using 70s era regulations, until
       | Congress forced them reluctantly to update.
        
       | scotty79 wrote:
       | I remember reading about the idea of putting polarizer on the
       | windshield and on the headlights at 45 deg angle so that the
       | lights from oncomming car get blocked while yours are still
       | visible to you. That was more than 30 years ago. It would have to
       | be mandatory though.
       | 
       | I wonder why it didn't pan out. I know polarizers block some
       | light either way, but with modern, strong headlights maybe it's
       | time to revisit the idea?
        
       | m463 wrote:
       | Ok, here's where this becomes a problem:
       | 
       | older people.
       | 
       | As you age, you gradually develop cataracts. These are deposits
       | in the lens of your eye that make them cloudy, and you get glare
       | from bright lights.
       | 
       | When looking at bright lights, it is like looking through a dirty
       | windshield. Light reaches your retina indirectly from the
       | deposits which makes it incredibly hard to see, reducing or
       | eliminating contrast.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataract
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glare_(vision)
       | 
       | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Flashlig...
       | 
       | You can also get cataracts earlier due to other health conditions
        
         | onion2k wrote:
         | There is a legal minimum standard for vision to be able to
         | drive in the UK (basically you have to be able to read a number
         | plate at 20 metres, not have double vision, and have a normal
         | field of vision in one eye.) The punishment for failing to stop
         | driving if you fail that is a PS1000 fine.
         | 
         | People with serious cataracts shouldn't be driving.
        
           | s1artibartfast wrote:
           | If people with 20/20 vision are having trouble, I'm sure that
           | people with diminished eyesight but above the legal limit
           | have it worse.
           | 
           | I'm also uncomfortable with the idea that we should ban more
           | people from driving just so others can have excessively
           | bright and sometimes illegal headlights.
        
       | oxag3n wrote:
       | It's ignorance from consumer side and lost engineering culture
       | from manufacturer.
       | 
       | In addition, people became aggressive and lack empathy - I was
       | followed by a Jeep Wrangler the other day, still dark in the
       | morning, his headlights lit my car interior via the back window
       | to the level where I had to slow down and almost stop. Once he
       | overtook I blinked as fast as possible just to let him know his
       | headlights were high beam. The guy aggressively drove behind me
       | and turned his high beams, which yes, were even brighter, but
       | still same angle.
        
       | xp84 wrote:
       | I'd settle for the damn brake lights/taillights being toned down.
       | Maybe with the exception of a car undergoing _hard_ braking there
       | is no point in them being so bright, but the 1,000,000 nit
       | apparent brightness coming from the vehicle in front at every
       | traffic light is painful.
       | 
       | LEDs are a true technical wonder, but they've made so many things
       | so stupid, from the status lights on every single piece of tech,
       | to cars. (And I'd say streetlights too, personally, but I know
       | some people like those).
        
         | LoganDark wrote:
         | I've seen some cars have variable brake lights depending on how
         | much pressure is being applied. It's very rare though. Wish my
         | vehicle had it.
        
       | luxuryballs wrote:
       | I partially blame the new cold virus they introduced in late
       | 2019.
        
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