[HN Gopher] Alchemy
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       Alchemy
        
       Author : tobr
       Score  : 23 points
       Date   : 2025-11-09 20:04 UTC (7 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (joshcollinsworth.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (joshcollinsworth.com)
        
       | hastamelo wrote:
       | when music became easier to make in the 90s and 00s due to
       | computers, and you no longer needed studio access, everybody in
       | their bedroom started flooding the market with songs. yet music
       | remains valuable.
       | 
       | today instagram is flooded with ai videos, many extremely obvious
       | (cats doing things), yet these videos are highly popular, some
       | have 400!!! mil views, millions of likes
       | 
       | author is confused, thinks music means just beethoven or Pink
       | Floyd or whatever he considers "good music"
       | 
       | > AI will never fully displace creatives, because the moment AI
       | can mass-produce any kind of creative work at scale, that work
       | will stop being worth producing in the first place.
       | 
       | literally confusing art with elitism and gate-keeping. might as
       | well require "artist degree from an accredited institution"
        
       | dzink wrote:
       | The only question is whether what is valuable to Humans remains
       | what is valuable. If major chunks of global money is in the hands
       | of a few entities who can generate more money by doing things
       | that humans don't care for (example oligarchs profiting from war,
       | or by some far out analogy - some AI company blocking the sun to
       | extract as much energy as possible to power AI farms at the
       | expense of food farms). Then you have a real problem.
       | 
       | Money at its start was human willpower packaged conveniently for
       | transport - in exchange for money you could have humans do
       | something for you they wouldn't normally do on their own. If you
       | can make money by crunching numbers with a GPU that doesn't sleep
       | or eat, using energy that doesn't need humans to make, and you
       | can buy products with it that make you more money automatically,
       | how much would you ask of humans and serve to humans?
        
       | heddycrow wrote:
       | Look at the history of art itself to find several movements where
       | artists make the point that difficulty in production is not the
       | key feature of art. You might even find proof that human
       | connection and humanity are not the key features. In fact, it's
       | pretty hard to nail down an objective definition of art, but we
       | can say what it doesn't have to be.
       | 
       | Gold doesn't share this nebulous sort of definition. Same with
       | diamonds, what's their price now that we have figured out the
       | "alchemy" for those?
       | 
       | What is it about these sorts of questions that escape those that
       | write articles like these? Better yet, if the authors did ask
       | these sorts of questions, could they write at all? Put another
       | way, must there be a lack of depth in order for these sorts of
       | ideas to be properly viral?
       | 
       | Maybe my feed just sucks. Someone please tell me where I can read
       | what I describe. Thanks in advance.
        
         | 8organicbits wrote:
         | I think gold was mentioned to give the nod to alchemy.
         | 
         | Diamonds are an interesting example. My understanding is that
         | synthetic diamonds are largely used in industrial process (esp.
         | abrasives). Synthetic diamonds in jewelry are cheaper
         | alternatives, but jewelers can still sell natural diamonds for
         | a premium. I think jewelry diamond prices are down in recent
         | years, but not a crash. I think the market largely split.
         | 
         | The value of diamond jewelry feels quite nebulous to me. I
         | remember looking at diamonds when picking an engagement ring
         | and the jeweler had me look through the loope to examine
         | microscopic imperfections, trying to upsell me on a different
         | stone. Realizing the absurdity of using a microscope to assess
         | jewelery which would otherwise only ever be seen by naked eye,
         | the illusion of value broke and I purchased none.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | The resale value of any diamond jewellery should tell all
           | about real value of it. Unless it is actually rare and
           | special piece my understanding is that value drops massively
           | moment the payment clears.
           | 
           | Compare this to gold, silver etc. which do have labour, but
           | still difference is mostly that and some buy/sell margin.
        
         | darepublic wrote:
         | Artificial means of creating gold has not made it less scarce.
         | Diamonds on the other hand should be less expensive, its value
         | is based on proving your love to someone. Diamond resale value
         | sucks. Diamond hasn't changed at all in the process.
        
       | nprateem wrote:
       | From the school of thought that brought you "No one will buy mass
       | produced goods" and "They won't believe it if it's not true"
       | comes another idea that won't age well...
        
       | drdrek wrote:
       | Its the first player past the goal post problem, the first
       | alchemist will crash the gold market but he will be insanely
       | rich. You can see this with advertisers, when a new approach is
       | found they all rush to it. They know its going to kill it soon,
       | but the first few will get that sweet sweet revenue before the
       | public catches on.
       | 
       | AI art will poison the well, but someone will make the few bucks
       | that can be extracted before it happens.
        
         | recursivecaveat wrote:
         | Always thought it was a strange objection. Obviously the
         | argument proves too much: by the same logic there is no point
         | in inventing or operating say a wheel; the price of pots will
         | just fall to the price of clay. Of course that isn't true, you
         | make money hand over fist until reaching some kind of perfect
         | competition again once everyone else catches up, at which point
         | it becomes merely a living.
        
       | eochaid wrote:
       | New things are hard to value.
       | 
       | > When the flush of a new-born sun fell first on Eden's green and
       | gold,
       | 
       | > Our father Adam sat under the Tree and scratched with a stick
       | in the mould;
       | 
       | > And the first rude sketch that the world had seen was joy to
       | his mighty heart,
       | 
       | > Till the Devil whispered behind the leaves: 'It's pretty, but
       | is it Art?'
       | 
       | -- Rudyard Kipling, _The Conundrum of the Workshops_ [1]
       | 
       | [1] https://poets.org/poem/conundrum-workshops
        
       | ibash wrote:
       | AI is having the same effect on art as the iPhone did on
       | photography.
       | 
       | There's a lot more photos now, most of them mediocre, but some
       | exceptional.
       | 
       | It does become harder to filter great photography from noise.
        
       | bananaflag wrote:
       | Why do people want to present some tired point, that has already
       | been made a thousand times, like some clever new insight?
       | 
       | At least, if you believe that, engage with some counter-arguments
       | at least, to make your article worth reading. This blog post is
       | exactly the kind of slop (though not AI) that the author is
       | criticizing.
        
         | firefoxd wrote:
         | This should help: https://xkcd.com/1053/
        
         | jamamp wrote:
         | I would argue that the author has no obligation to engage with
         | more counter-arguments, or provide something "new" (to you) to
         | the conversation.
         | 
         | This is a blog. Blog posts are a way to show the voice of the
         | author, share their thoughts on the matter, perhaps work
         | through their own thought processes and come to a nice
         | conclusion for themselves that they choose to share with the
         | public.
         | 
         | I would find the internet and the community incredibly dull if
         | the first person to post a criticism was it and everyone else
         | always referred to their article. There'd be no further
         | discussion whatsoever.
         | 
         | I found this article to be enlightening and a wonderful way to
         | frame my disdain for AI-generated art and other content in a
         | framing that I hadn't thought of so explicitly before. The
         | analogy to alchemy is a welcomed and fresh take. I appreciate
         | this article. Perhaps I'm one of today's lucky 10,000 to have
         | made this connection.
         | 
         | I also appreciate this article because the author put effort
         | into it and voiced their opinion. Voicing opinions don't have
         | to be novel, since this isn't academia necessarily where you
         | have to fight for uniqueness and new takes.
        
       | jhbadger wrote:
       | There was a real world example akin to the alchemists getting
       | their wish of making gold and finding out that that destroyed the
       | value of it -- Spanish colonialism. Spain brought back tons of
       | silver and gold from the New World and instead of making them
       | wealthy it crashed their economy by hyperinflation.
       | 
       | https://www.worldhistory.org/article/2045/the-gold-of-the-co...
        
       | d--b wrote:
       | Ok so this argues that alchemists would destroy the value of gold
       | by creating loads of it, and that's what's going to happen to AI
       | artists. A bit of a stretch IMO, but whatever.
       | 
       | So instead what they should have done is to buy tons of lead, and
       | make people believe it was actually as good as gold. So people
       | would buy it from them, cheap at first, but then they would rise
       | the price slowly, and those people who had bought first would
       | have made a profit, triggering others to buy lead at an even
       | higher price, and making the alchemists a ton of money.
       | 
       | The play was crypyto mining, not AI art.
        
       | whydoineedthis wrote:
       | Some people make art for the sake of art though.
        
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