[HN Gopher] Steam Machine
___________________________________________________________________
Steam Machine
Author : davikr
Score : 2608 points
Date : 2025-11-12 17:59 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (store.steampowered.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (store.steampowered.com)
| mojoe wrote:
| Steam is the only reason I have a Windows desktop, I'll probably
| just get one of these next time I want a hardware refresh (which
| admittedly will probably be many years).
|
| Interesting that it uses KDE Plasma for the desktop
| lordleft wrote:
| I like SteamOS a great deal, though it's not my daily driver
| (yet). I'm curious if people will begin to use it as a daily
| driver and thus expect Valve to be an OS developer on top of
| creating software for their gaming hardware. That's a different
| set of expectations and I wonder how they'll navigate it.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| > thus expect Valve to be an OS developer on top of creating
| software for their gaming hardware. That's a different set of
| expectations and I wonder how they'll navigate it.
|
| They've been doing it since Steam Deck launched, or even
| since they started to contribute to Proton/Wine (depending on
| exactly what you see "OS" to be). They seem to have grips on
| it more or less already, Deck upgrades are a breeze and the
| machine and software itself is open enough for a Linux hacker
| like me to be very comfortable on it, and also closed down
| enough for my nieces to not be able to brick theirs by just
| tapping around.
| oersted wrote:
| Indeed, even much earlier. With Steam Deck they achieved
| wider adoption but the first generation of Steam Machines
| came out in 2015 and they have been committed to the
| SteamOS linux distro since then.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| Yeah, I'm sure you're right overall, they've been at it
| for a long time. I think it's worth keeping in mind that
| all of the SteamOS'es before Steam Deck were pretty much
| nothing like the current (3.0) iteration. If I recall
| correctly, I think they were based on Ubuntu or Debian,
| compared to the current Arch Linux distribution.
| keyringlight wrote:
| They seem to have worked it out well by limiting SteamOS to
| their hardware, so they don't have to handle all the
| varieties a regular distro has to. There's a significant
| number of people who want an 'official' release as a
| regular installable distro but I doubt it'll happen and
| Valve are happy to delegate that to others
| jvanderbot wrote:
| Linux is my daily driver, and I run steam to play games
| (though, not on a work linux partition for reasons).
|
| It can run just about everything I want to play, but yes,
| there are plenty of things that don't work yet. Doom Dark
| Ages, for example.
| TiredOfLife wrote:
| I have been using Steam Deck oled as my main computing device
| for 2 years. It has been amazing. It's fast and silent.
| mhitza wrote:
| I've used SteamOS as a daily driver for half a year.
| Immutable distros have limitations and my distrobox images
| failed to work after a SteamOS update.
|
| If you're ok with running work stuff in a separate VM within
| SteamOS, that works great. Using Geekbench I saw only a 5%
| cpu performance penalty. Io takes a bigger hit, but that
| wasn't a blocker for me as I was intending to run VMs with
| encrypted storage anyway (which adds even more latency) but
| still a good experience for my work.
| koolala wrote:
| I've used it as a daily driver for years and its good.
| Updates do break things though so it's not the total linux
| bug-free dream.
| przmk wrote:
| It doesn't boot into the desktop by default -- it uses its own
| session with the Gamescope compositor. The desktop is easily
| accessible through the power menu though.
| nicce wrote:
| Gamescope is really nice. I am running Steam headlessly with
| that on my home server.
| PhilippGille wrote:
| > Interesting that it uses KDE Plasma for the desktop
|
| SteamOS on the Steam Deck already used KDE Plasma for the
| desktop.
| teroshan wrote:
| https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamframe [1]
|
| > Steam Frame is a PC, and runs SteamOS powered by a
| Snapdragon(r) 8 Series Processor. With 16GB of RAM, Steam Frame
| supports stand-alone play on a growing number of both VR and non-
| VR games without needing to stream from your PC.
|
| So Steam + Proton works on aarch64? Is this something already
| available/supported, or is this an announcement?
|
| [1] Steam Frame, which is the VR Headset releasing alongside the
| Steam Machine. Dedicated discussion here
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903325
| sylens wrote:
| I think this is a form of an announcement but without many
| details. I'm curious to see how well it works
| jsheard wrote:
| Valve has been quietly working on integrating the FEX x86
| emulator into Proton for a while, and it's official now.
|
| https://www.tomshardware.com/peripherals/gaming-headsets/han...
| teroshan wrote:
| Valve deciding to support Arm-based gaming is HUGE news
| Yokolos wrote:
| https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/1493
|
| This is fun, just found this issue from 2018 which was closed
| with this comment:
|
| > Hello @setsunati, this is not a realistic objective for
| Proton. As @rkfg, mentions wine for ARM does not magically
| make x86 based games work on ARM cpus.
|
| > Even if Steam were brought to ARM, and an x86 emulation
| layer was run underneath wine, the amount of games that could
| run fast and without hitting video driver quirks is small
| enough not to entertain this idea any time in the near
| future.
|
| It's mentioned in this issue
| https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/8136 which was
| closed Oct 2024 with this comment by kisak-valve:
|
| > Hello @Theleafir1, similar to #1493, this is not a
| realistic objective for Proton any time in the near future.
| baq wrote:
| Finally some clarification on what valve time _actually_
| is.
| mosselman wrote:
| What do you mean? Could you share your insight?
| yvdriess wrote:
| https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
| dmonitor wrote:
| it's running joke that Valve will announce something as
| "coming soon" only to release months or years later
|
| https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
| AlienRobot wrote:
| This kind of thing is what makes me trust Valve.
| firen777 wrote:
| >"Coming Soon" (January 10, 2017) | December 20, 2024 |
| 7th Issue of Team Fortress Comics: The Days Have Worn
| Away
|
| Out of all the IPs Valve owns, somehow it's TF2 that got
| a story conclusion and it couldn't have been more
| perfect.
| amarant wrote:
| Did someone say half life 3?
| Andrex wrote:
| Every time someone says "Half-Life 3" it's delayed
| another day from announcement. That's why everyone right
| now is talking about this "HLX" thing...
| radialstub wrote:
| I believe this work is a continuation of the work the asahi
| linux people did to get games working on M-series macs. It
| seems Alyssa Rosenzweig works at valve as a contractor. Super
| cool work. Some seriously talented folks.
| LeonM wrote:
| Alyssa works for Intel now, so I doubt she'll be doing much
| contract work for Valve anymore...
| embedding-shape wrote:
| What a jump, I'd be curious to hear first why anyone
| would prefer Intel above pretty much anything else, but
| also secondly how the actual experience difference
| between the two after working at both, must be a very
| strong contrast between them.
| KerrAvon wrote:
| usually a combination of money/benefits/locale is the
| answer to this question
| bigyabai wrote:
| Would it shock you to hear that many/most engineers don't
| pick an employer based on brand reputation?
| collingreen wrote:
| Would it shock you to hear that famous engineers with
| their own personal brand power have different
| opportunities and motivations than many/most engineers?
| vasco wrote:
| Their point is even made stronger by your comment.
| Engineers of this type don't experience megacorps like
| regular engineers. They usually have a non-standard setup
| and more leeway and less bureaucracy overhead. Which
| means brand isn't the biggest thing, the specific
| projects and end user impact are.
| ikety wrote:
| I'm sure most would stay at valve if they could. The just
| do so much contract work, and I'm sure a stable job at
| intel is better pay, benefits and stability.
| whizzter wrote:
| Maybe she was given a huge signing bonus to avoid her
| working on making X86 irrelevant? Combined with perhaps
| some interesting project to work on for real.
| array_key_first wrote:
| Personally I don't think ARM can make x86 irrelevant.
|
| I believe low wattage SOCs can make traditional desktop
| hardware irrelevant (ish), but I think ARM is orthogonal
| to that.
| neilv wrote:
| If I were Intel, this sounds like a great person to give
| an R&D skunkworks dream job.
|
| Potential lottery ticket win, they are available for
| consulting internally anywhere that can add value, and
| they're not working for anyone else.
| trenchpilgrim wrote:
| On her website it says she is working on GPU drivers
| there - I wouldn't be surprised if that's something she
| greatly enjoys and Intel gave her then opportunity to
| work on official, production shipping drivers instead of
| reverse engineered third party drivers.
| forgotoldacc wrote:
| I imagine there's also some challenging work that would
| be fun to dig into. Being the person who can clean up
| Intel's problems would be quite a reputation to have.
| sulam wrote:
| There's a real limit on what level of problem one
| engineer can fix, regardless of how strong they are.
| Carmack at Meta is an example of this, but there are
| many. Woz couldn't fix Apple's issues, etc.
|
| A company sufficiently scaled can largely only be fixed
| by the CEO, and often not even then.
| skavi wrote:
| Intel has a reputation of producing relatively high
| quality drivers for Linux.
| gregorvand wrote:
| write up on that here: https://rosenzweig.io/blog/asahi-
| gpu-part-n.html
| pdpi wrote:
| Have to wonder if there is a world where Proton comes to
| macOS.
| jsheard wrote:
| Pretty unlikely as long as Apple refuses to support Vulkan.
| Even if they did, the whole Proton project is about Valve
| controlling their own destiny rather than being chained to
| someone else's platform, and Apple is just another
| Microsoft in that regard.
| pdpi wrote:
| True, forgot about that. That said, Apple does have
| D3DMetal. A man can dream that they eventually opensource
| that.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| > Pretty unlikely as long as Apple refuses to support
| Vulkan.
|
| You would only translate into Vulcan when running on an
| OS that uses Vulcan as the native graphics API.
|
| On a Mac, Wine translates directly into Metal.
| jsheard wrote:
| Valve _could_ implement a separate Metal backend for
| Proton, what I 'm saying is they probably wouldn't want
| to spend their resources on that.
| samtheprogram wrote:
| That's because D3DMetal already exists. Games run like
| they did on Proton ~4-5 years ago, some games better.
|
| I mostly no longer boot my Linux machine anymore to play
| games.
|
| The anticheat story is probably not as good but I don't
| play any AAA games, so I wouldn't know.
| jsheard wrote:
| That's great as long as it works, but D3DMetal is a
| proprietary, closed-source Apple library so you can and
| probably will get rug-pulled by Apple neglecting or
| deprecating it as their priorities change. They've only
| ever positioned it as an "evaluation environment" for
| developers to estimate how their game will run before
| going ahead with a native Mac port, not as something for
| end-users to play Windows games with, so if developers
| don't bite then they'll have no reason to keep working on
| it.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Proton is a downstream fork of Wine, and upstream Wine
| already directly supports playing Windows games on Mac
| using D3DMetal.
|
| You don't need Proton's Wine fork when you can just use
| Wine.
| samtheprogram wrote:
| That doesn't change the fact that D3DMetal is closed-
| source. Wine just links to it.
|
| There's also DXMT which is open-source, but doesn't
| support DX12.
| pdpi wrote:
| Right now, the user experience with Crossover is that you
| have to manage the whole thing of installing Windows
| Steam in a Wine bottle, then installing games within that
| second Steam installation, then dealing with the fact
| that Steam doesn't seem to like having two instances
| running on the same computer (my native Steam loses
| connectivity every time I start the Crossover instance).
|
| Wanting Proton on Mac isn't about that specific fork of
| Wine, it's shorthand for wanting the user experience that
| Valve gives you on Linux.
| gpderetta wrote:
| As a comparison, before proton, you could run steam with
| wine under linux. Wine directx implementation was
| sufficient to make a quite a few games work just fine,
| but the experience was atrocious. You either had to
| install a new instance of steam per game or install
| everything under one bottle which didn't work well as you
| had to tweak the install per grame. Personally I used it
| just for one or two of games that I really wanted to play
| and could actually run outsisde of steam after
| installation.
|
| In comparison the proton experience is seamless.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| > Games run like they did on Proton ~4-5 years ago, some
| games better.
|
| Proton previously only worked on x86, so there was not
| the additional overhead of x86 to ARM translation.
|
| Proton on ARM will have the same performance constraints
| as Wine on ARM Macs.
| derefr wrote:
| Couldn't _Apple_ spend their resources on that? Proton is
| open-source, and Apple 's the one with the incentive to
| have more "prestige" AAA game devs to parade around
| during keynotes.
| jsheard wrote:
| Apple could but they're not interested in non-native
| games, they want native ports or nothing. As I discussed
| a few posts over, Apple went to the trouble of developing
| a DirectX compatibility layer, but then told game
| developers they're not allowed to use it for anything
| besides evaluating whether their game would run well
| enough on Mac hardware. If they go ahead with a port then
| Apple still expects them to do it all the hard way.
|
| It's textbook "perfect is the enemy of good" because
| yeah, compatibility layers have overhead, native is
| better, but if you insist on native everything but can't
| get devs on board then you just end up with no games.
| happymellon wrote:
| > compatibility layers have overhead
|
| Also, how could Apple kill the old software that is
| better than the new, if it doesn't control the emulation?
| This way they don't have to even have 10% of the features
| to force you to buy again.
|
| _cough_ /final cut/ _cough_
| Cloudef wrote:
| Target apple and in 5 years your binary wont work anymore
| anyways
| nasretdinov wrote:
| Well, some games like Civ V still manage to work! But
| they actually had to port it to 64-bit, otherwise it'd
| have the fate of all other 32-bit macOS games
| unfortunately...
| Andrex wrote:
| Exactly.
|
| Compare Steam Machine (2014) to Steam Machine (2026). The
| difference this time around is Proton support, and you
| can pretty easily see the hype on the internet for the
| new version, even after the original version was mocked
| relentlessly in some circles for having "no games."
| tick_tock_tick wrote:
| Apple could but Apple would rather die they allow
| something to work cross platform.
| davely wrote:
| I think they are also absolutely addicted to cruddy pay
| to win mobile games and they don't want to give up that
| sweet drip feed of IAP that they get a 30% cut of...
| which is substantial.
|
| For funsies, try searching App Store apps and find a way
| to filter out results for apps with IAP. Nope!
|
| (Source: me, who spent time at a mobile gaming company as
| we figured out how to continuously optimize our funnels
| so that some rich dudes in Qatar could continue to spend
| $40K a month on useless cosmetics.)
| thirdsun wrote:
| I think that filter is called Apple Arcade but of course
| it's not free.
| thefz wrote:
| Nope because they could not gouge developes with pricy
| tools, steep registration fees and cutthroat slice of
| their sales on Apple's app market.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Apple already has their own way, and they rather have
| studios rewrite the games.
|
| https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/
| swiftcoder wrote:
| The porting toolkit is more or less Apple's version of
| Proton:
|
| "evaluate your unmodified Windows executable on Apple
| silicon using the evaluation environment for Windows
| games"
|
| A bunch of games just ship the Windows executable and
| some version of that translation layer in their MacOS App
| bundle
| pjmlp wrote:
| That is step one, see WWDC sessions on the matter.
| Andrex wrote:
| Apple and gaming is like oil and water, it'll never
| happen.
|
| They'll spend billions on a handful of (late) AAA ports
| for macOS every 4-5 years, and then go radio silent
| again.
| vessenes wrote:
| Potato Potatoh. I think Apple is the largest game
| platform in the world, or ate least iOS is.
| mikkupikku wrote:
| Apple thinks PC games are for gross nerds and would
| rather not sully their fashion image by associating with
| gamer any more than is absolutely necessary. So no, Apple
| won't be doing that.
| alessandroberna wrote:
| They could also use MoltenVK
| miohtama wrote:
| Wouldn't it be Apple's benefit to get more gaming on
| MacOS? Their goals might align with Steam.
|
| Apple's native gaming story has been similar failure as
| their AI and Siri ventures. Time to fix it.
| WhyNotHugo wrote:
| Valve seems to break free form depending on someone
| else's walled garden.
|
| Apple seeks to builds its own walled garden.
|
| Their interests do not align. Apple doesn't want portable
| software on their platform, they want exclusive software.
| evilduck wrote:
| Hard to swallow.
|
| Every day I sit down at a Mac for work and proceed to
| launch VS Code, Zed, Outlook, DBeaver, Excel, Teams,
| LogSeq, Syncthing, Chrome, Firefox, LM Studio and Docker.
| I prefer MacOS but basically all of my application
| workflow exists for Windows verbatim and if using browser
| versions of the MS apps, on Linux too.
| andriesm wrote:
| Same! I main macos, love the hardware, but I keep a very
| close eye on Linux (asahi, omarchy etc) in case Apple
| gets any more toxic, and I am forced to jump ship to
| something else, and that something else won't be windoze.
|
| The last straw with MacOS was when my US bank cards
| expired, I could no longer update apps I already paid
| for, I could no longer install apps I already paid for.
| Everything was held hostage, could not install FREE apps
| via the appstore on macos or on ipad.
|
| That day my eyes opened to what Apple has become.
|
| You simply cannot trust Apple with your computing future.
| They're a fashion company now.
| BruceEel wrote:
| and plus one here! I don't know, I like my mac workflow
| but irritation and aggravation have crept in more
| frequently of late. Last week I was told a binary that
| clang++ had just produced from my own code could not be
| run because Apple couldn't check whether it was safe..
| And what to make of power users complaining bitterly
| about Tahoe & liquid glass etc? I'm hanging on to Ventura
| for now.
| poulpy123 wrote:
| Apple is big enough to not need gaming and their
| philosophy is to have the most control possible on their
| ecosystem and to be the most closed possible. For them it
| makes no sense to encourage steam to be big on mac
| (except as a way to jumpstart their own system before
| closing it). And it is especially true now that steam is
| making machines, so is a direct competitor
| easyThrowaway wrote:
| I mean, theoretically they could backport the D3DMetal
| wine driver from the Game Porting Toolkit. Also I
| remember there was some early preliminary work done on
| stock wine a few years ago.
|
| Honestly right now there is so much overlapping between
| all the wine "flavors" and forks available (Stock wine,
| Crossover, Proton/Proton-GE/Wine-GE, Game Porting
| Toolkit, winevdm, probably a few more I'm forgetting
| right now) I'm not entirely sure how many features have
| been independently implemented already multiple times.
| sgentle wrote:
| DXMT has been advancing very quickly:
| https://github.com/3Shain/dxmt
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Proton is just a fork of Wine that also translates from
| Microsoft's DirectX graphics API to the native graphics API
| of Linux (Vulcan) so you can run Windows games on Linux.
|
| The new thing Proton is adding is translation from x86 to
| ARM.
|
| Macs already have Wine, an x86 to ARM translation layer
| (Rosetta), and an Apple provided translation layer from
| Microsoft's DirectX to the Mac's native Metal graphics API
| (D3DMetal) which is integrated into upstream Wine.
| pdpi wrote:
| I mentioned elsewhere -- Right now, using Wine/Crossover
| is a hassle. Wanting "Proton on Mac" isn't about that
| specific fork of Wine, it's shorthand for wanting the
| user experience that Valve gives you on Linux.
| bsimpson wrote:
| I did catch that the streaming stick for the Valve Frame in
| the announcement video was plugged into a computer that
| looked an awful lot like a Mac.
| ENGNR wrote:
| Yes! I rewound the video to double check
|
| But honestly at this point I'm destined to buy a Steam
| Machine despite having a hefty Mac that could do gaming
| if only it were possible. Valve have been amazing about
| open computing and Apple are basically the enemy at this
| point.
|
| It makes me wonder about what using steam machine for all
| computing might look like, as the new home of open
| computing and gaming.
| philo23 wrote:
| I believe that was part of the original plan for Proton,
| but with the success of the Steam Deck that got shelved and
| it moved to a focus purely on Linux.
|
| I don't think it's ever likely to return any time soon, but
| it'd be cool if it did. Valve seemingly have very little
| interest in macOS at the moment.
|
| CodeWeavers work closely with Valve and the Wine project to
| improve compatibility with games, and Apple's own Game
| Porting Toolkit is based on CodeWeavers work on Wine too.
| So all the pieces are there in theory.
| derefr wrote:
| There was also a parallel effort to this end, targeting
| Android rather than plain Linux, resulting in an app called
| https://winlator.org/ -- which also works quite well at this
| point. (See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP0yUqcyY18)
| pippy360 wrote:
| That was a very higher quality YT video. It's clearly
| written by someone who knows when they're talking about
| even though it's mostly non-technical
| throawayonthe wrote:
| nowadays FEX works better than box86 in my experience, on
| 'desktop' linux at least
| Bombthecat wrote:
| Damn valve is cooking.
| jasonjmcghee wrote:
| Wow this looks great. Foveated streaming, great resolution,
| wireless, 144hz, looks much more comfortable... As much as I
| want this, I feel like it'll end up being a really cool thing
| that just sits on the shelf.
|
| Edit: foveated _streaming_ , not rendering
| erxam wrote:
| Maybe they've cracked the code with the dongle? Usually, you
| either have to invest both time and money into setting up the
| perfect streaming network, deal with annoying cables or
| resign yourself to inferior on-device game versions. The
| ergonomics matter more than you'd think.
|
| But if it's a very easy plug-n-play type deal to run SteamVR
| games (and on Linux!), that's a huge ergonomic improvement.
| Don't have to think too much about whether everything is
| running correctly or what-have-you.
| mavamaarten wrote:
| If it's just plug and play and works well, it'd be
| brilliant. I have experimented a lot with a couple or wifi
| dongles I had lying around and setting up a hotspot, but
| honestly I could never get it to work well.
|
| Streaming VR content is just so sensitive. I have a good
| cabled network but even a simple switch introduced
| noticeable lag spikes. In the end I have a separate router
| that I just connect straight to my PC, and then I share my
| wifi connection through my PC to that network. A whole
| silly setup just to minimize latency and packet loss. If
| that could be replaced with a simple USB dongle I'd be
| amazed.
| Hikikomori wrote:
| Bought another AP to use on 6ghz band, still alone there,
| works perfectly for my oculus. If they can do it with a
| dongle that would make it much simpler for regular people.
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| I recommend preparing a drink or two and loading up VRchat
| and joining one of the rave club groups. Check out the
| metaverse zuck wishes he ran.
| grepex wrote:
| I could see Steam creating the OASIS
| darkwater wrote:
| Any idea if Gabe likes Rush?
| embedding-shape wrote:
| I tried VRChat once or twice but never seemed to have found
| any fun places/groups to hang out that weren't obsessing
| about anime/manga most of the time. Anyone here on HN have
| better suggestions of worlds/groups or where to even look?
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| There are groups that are more focused on music (DnB,
| dubstep, other festival-friendly genres), focused on
| dancing, focused on drinking games, focused on world-
| hopping, etc. I'm into the underground rave vibe, so for
| that there's VRC Party Hub, which is a guy who runs a
| discord who befriends as many clubs as he can find in
| that scene, and imports their schedules/announcements
| channels into a nightly report of all known events.
|
| https://x.com/VRChatPartyHub
| qwm wrote:
| VRChat is one of the most socially dysfunctional online
| platforms I've ever used
| Andrex wrote:
| I haven't ventured in myself but I love reading people's
| anecdotes if you got any handy.
| jauntywundrkind wrote:
| I don't think there is foveated rendering. There is foveated
| _encoding,_ when game streaming.
|
| Looks like a very competent headset indeed though! Nice combo
| of fast streaming that can prioritize well with foveated
| encoding, and hopefully a pretty nice malleable capable
| standalone headset too.
| jasonjmcghee wrote:
| Yes - thank you, fixed
| terribleperson wrote:
| The eye tracking data is supposedly being made available to
| other software on PC (and presumably the headset as well),
| so foveated rendering should be possible but is a software
| problem.
| jasonjmcghee wrote:
| I did more research. It does indeed support foveated
| rendering. Developers do need to implement this for their
| game, but it supports it.
|
| discussed here: https://youtu.be/b7q2CS8HDHU?t=1074
|
| "For foveated rendering, [the developers] have that option,
| but it's not compulsory"
| pimeys wrote:
| My NVIDIA Shield is getting old and slow. I can see this as a
| good replacement, because it supports HDMI CEC, so you can
| control it with your remote control.
|
| Install Plex, JellyFin, FreeTube et.al. to it and you have a
| nice open source TV box.
|
| You also get 4k gaming from Steam, GOG, Epic etc. and you get
| emulators. I've been wanting to build a computer like this,
| but CEC is hard to find and the adapters that exist don't
| support full 4k resolution.
| matthewrobertso wrote:
| The specs for this steam machine say HDMI 2.0, in the past
| I used a pulse8 HDMI CEC USB dongle with a computer which
| was also HDMI 2.0 iirc. I was using a 1080p projector with
| it but their website claims 4k support: https://www.pulse-
| eight.com/p/104/usb-hdmi-cec-adapter
|
| I recently replaced a shield with an Ugoos Am6b+ running
| coreELEC, which works okay and supports some stuff the
| shield doesn't but I miss being able to run some android
| apps easily. I wonder if the new steam machine will support
| DV.
| pimeys wrote:
| https://www.pulse-eight.com/p/104/usb-hdmi-cec-adapter
|
| > Does not support resolutions and colour spaces greater
| than 4k60 4:2:0 8-bit colour.
|
| This is kind of annoying if you want 4k60 4:4:4 and
| 10-bit HDR.
| matthewrobertso wrote:
| If you want that you won't want this steam machine, HDMI
| 2.0 can do 4K60 HDR at 10-bit, but only with chroma
| subsampling (4:2:2 or 4:2:0) (not full 4:4:4).
| baq wrote:
| I lowkey hope it's good enough for coding. Really wanted to
| try out the xreal glasses, but multiple people said they
| aren't crisp enough for text.
| nickstinemates wrote:
| I can't wait until the tech reaches this stage. Infinite
| desktop space, surrounded by text and terminals. It will be
| so hard to unplug.
| bitwize wrote:
| EMACS. EMACS EVERYWHERE YOU LOOK.
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| resolution is in the 2000x2000 range so don't count on it.
| jasonjmcghee wrote:
| 2160 per eye- so a bit more than that in width... I'm
| thinking if you do 2x pixel density it could look pretty
| clean. But that's not a whole lot of real estate... that
| being said, i remember when 1280x1024 was incredible and
| that's the same ballpark as what you'd get.
| u8080 wrote:
| This is not directly comparable with display resolution
| since actually you are looking for PPI per degree of
| vision to judge on clarity.
| yencabulator wrote:
| That's 2160 pixels over ~110 degrees field of view. How
| many degrees of your view does your monitor cover? The
| density comes out very different.
| nulld3v wrote:
| There are already headsets with decent text fidelity, but
| IMO the problem is now on the host side. I tried to get an
| XR desktop env running (Stardust https://stardustxr.org/)
| on Linux but ran into graphical issues. The Windows
| ecosystem is much better though.
| philote wrote:
| I use Xreal Air Pros for gaming and sometimes working if
| I'm mobile. Resolution isn't great, but I find them better
| than looking at a small-ish laptop screen or the Steam Deck
| screen. You can definitely read text on them, but maybe not
| small text. It also helps to have prescription inserts.
|
| And now I'm curious if the Steam Frame allows inserts or
| fits well with glasses on.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| It looks good until I reached one bit:
|
| > Passthrough - Monochrome passthrough via outward facing
| cameras
|
| This is an outright bone-headed move that I can't believe
| Valve is making. Only having monochrome cameras means
| augmented reality is basically a non-starter.
|
| AR has a lot of potential. I literally bought a Meta Quest 3
| just for PianoVision [0] when I already had a Valve Index. I
| would love to see some sort of AR-based game you could play
| outdoors. But with only monochrome vision, that's gonna be
| awful.
|
| [0] https://youtu.be/apwZTV-Rg0s
| starkparker wrote:
| The videos I've seen about the Frame all call out the front
| expansion port, which "Valve says ... offers a dual 2.5Gbps
| MIPI camera interface and also supports a one-lane Gen 4
| PCIe data port for other peripherals."[1]
|
| That's plenty to support color passthrough as a physical
| addon, which in turn makes me think that, like with the
| OLED Deck, we'll see a Frame with built-in color-
| passthrough later as a different premium SKU when/if they
| justify it.
|
| 1: https://www.uploadvr.com/valve-steam-frame-official-
| announce...
| terribleperson wrote:
| I expect that a premium headset is in the works, but they
| probably didn't want to complicate what is effectively a
| console launch with multiple SKUs. They'll probably offer
| a 'Frame Pro' with wider FOV and better cameras a year or
| two down the line, possibly at the same time as the Steam
| Deck refresh we all know is coming.
| pteraspidomorph wrote:
| I'm led to believe there's only so much FOV you can get
| out of pancake lenses? This is already spoecced to be the
| best pancake FOV seen to this date.
| grafporno wrote:
| > AR has a lot of potential
|
| Name one that has to do with with this box competing with
| xbox and playstation in people's living room.
| terribleperson wrote:
| AR is really cool but it seems like a better fit for
| premium VR headsets right now. At a given price and
| assuming other specs are fixed, monochrome cameras offer
| higher refresh rate. I'm hoping this will help the frame
| offer better tracking.
| samplatt wrote:
| Sad fact is that nobody outside tiny niche-cases in
| engineering really gives a shit about XR. The current round
| of meta-branded glasses don't have features worth the
| price.
|
| When it's light & small enough to be a pair of glasses and
| more than just the expensive but limited gimmick that the
| form is currently, then it'll be world-changing. It's
| close, but it's not there yet.
| oblio wrote:
| The thing is, Google Glass was announced in 2013, 13
| years ago. Yes, hardware and software advancements have
| been huge in the meantime but the form factor is so
| restrictive that we're probably still 10 years away from
| the "iPhone moment" of XR/AR. Especially since hardware
| is in a weird place where all the cutting edge stuff is
| more or less made by a single company.
| koolala wrote:
| Has PianoVision been working for you to learn piano?
| cardanome wrote:
| To be fair, I have zero interest in AR so I am glad I will
| not have to pay for it when buying the headset.
|
| PianoVision sounds like a really bad way to learn the
| piano. There are already pianos/midi controller that have
| the abilities to light up the keys you are supposed to play
| if you really needed that. But that is a gimmick that you
| might use the first few sessions and then never again. Same
| with PianoVision.
|
| Generally, is is so much better to start with music
| notation from day one. I regret starting with all the piano
| learning apps because they only have been holding me back.
| luqtas wrote:
| some just want to play Here Comes the Sun and not learn
| proper technique to go above grade 8 esoteric stuff
| without feeling pain bc they are playing for hours a day
| delusional wrote:
| I'm more confused that it's running SteamOS which is supposedly
| Arch based, but arch doesn't officially support ARM. You have
| to use the ArchLinuxARM distro for that, which is less
| maintained. They got to be doing something off label for that.
| uncletaco wrote:
| Even if they are, Valve has a long track record of
| contributing back to open source projects.
| 0x1ch wrote:
| Proton was a community led effort years back. The guy who
| started that is now an employee at Valve (IIRC) working on
| Proton, but also getting paid :)
| 0x457 wrote:
| > arch doesn't officially support ARM
|
| Doesn't really mean much to Valve as SteamOS vendor:
|
| - linux kernel supports aarch64 just fine
|
| - user space supports aarach64 just as fine
|
| - Valve provides runtime for games (be it via proton or
| native linux), so providing aarch64 builds is up to them
| anyway
|
| The main point of ArchLinuxARM is providing compatible
| binaries, which isn't something hard to do in-house.
| whatevaa wrote:
| Arch doesn't support ARM at all. Arm is somebody else hobby
| project.
| tiberious726 wrote:
| You mean valve's?
| wafflemaker wrote:
| isn't Steam Deck arm based?
| delusional wrote:
| No. It's an AMD x64 CPU married to an onboard GPU.
| milutinovici wrote:
| No, it's AMD based
| gavinsyancey wrote:
| Arch has been working with Valve on various build system
| improvements for some time [0], which as I understand it
| are targeted at making it more feasible for them to
| eventually support more architectures [1]. This doesn't
| release for several months; I wonder if there'll be an
| official Arch Linux ARM by then?
|
| [0]: https://lists.archlinux.org/archives/list/arch-dev-
| public@li...
|
| [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41696041
| stetrain wrote:
| Just to clarify that's for the Steam Frame VR Headset. The
| Steam Machine PC uses an AMD Zen 4 x86 CPU.
| SpaceNoodled wrote:
| The headset isn't natively running games, right?
| smileybarry wrote:
| It _can_ , but it'll be a small subset of stuff. You'll
| probably be able to just hit install + play on most things,
| but it'll have a "Steam Frame Verified" program like the
| Steam Deck's.
| stetrain wrote:
| Yes, in the same way that a Quest 3 can run BeatSaber and
| other similar calibre games.
|
| For more demanding games it's designed to stream from a PC.
| jadbox wrote:
| When's the preorders happening?
| nialv7 wrote:
| > So Steam + Proton works on aarch64?
|
| CodeWeavers just announced[0] CrossOver on ARM a couple of days
| ago, so yes.
|
| [0]: https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/mjohnson/2025/11/6/twist-
| ou...
| sho_hn wrote:
| Mainly check out the Valve-sponsored FEX project.
| ljm wrote:
| It also looks like they've launched a new version of the Steam
| Controller.
| Ekaros wrote:
| >RAM 16GB DDR5 + 8GB GDDR6 VRAM
|
| Hmm. Not that it is big deal, but I would be somewhat worried
| about true longevity with the VRAM. Not sure if SteamOS helps
| there, but on PC some new titles are going over the 8GB VRAM.
| keyringlight wrote:
| One of the things I've noted for a while is that PC gaming as a
| platform seems to be polarizing between high and low spec,
| especially if you look outside of North America/Western Europe
| to places like South America or SE Asia. The steam deck and now
| this seem to be a reference/target platform for the low spec
| group. It might not be able to play the prestigious high spec
| titles well if at all, but so long as "your mileage may vary"
| is messaged well I can't see it being a problem, it hasn't so
| far.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| There's a certain category of person who spends thousands of
| dollars seemingly just to see bigger numbers in benchmarks
| and to flex their consumerism on people. I've seen quite a
| lot of commenting about how certain games are "unplayable" on
| the steam deck, games which I have been playing just fine. I
| just turn the settings down to low and enjoy the game.
| rollcat wrote:
| The main appeal of a console (for both consumers and
| developers) is that's it's a "stupid" and "fixed" device.
| Your game either runs well on it or it doesn't, but you can
| always count on this remaining consistent prior to shipping
| it.
|
| If Steam Machine gains enough foothold, it will be treated
| like a console. It won't run the latest title in 4K@120, but
| the title will still run great on default settings.
| Mr_Bees69 wrote:
| it meets or exceeds the ps5 and xbox series x, so it might not
| be top tier, but it'll be fine. I have a plenty good time on my
| series x, cant think of any stutters.
| lights0123 wrote:
| Both consoles allow more than 8GB to be used for the
| integrated GPU.
| esskay wrote:
| Actually looks like its just _slightly_ less powerful than
| them.
| AnotherGoodName wrote:
| It's a very low end Radeon 7000 series. It's absolutely
| incapable of the highest texture quality and rendering
| resolutions that need more than 8GB of VRAM. You'll likely
| never go above 1080p on this card (1440p is going to be rough
| based on benchmarks of the existing low end 7000 series).
|
| There's absolutely no reasonable way to use more than 8GB of
| VRAM on this card.
| hs86 wrote:
| Even modern low-end GPUs should have more than enough fill
| rate for high-res textures. The texture quality setting in
| games is usually not affecting performance at all until VRAM
| runs out.
| AnotherGoodName wrote:
| Part of that is that the texture detail scales to the point
| where on a low end card at low resolutions you aren't
| seeing any difference between high and low detail textures.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| No DisplayPort 2.0 is interesting because RDNA3 should
| support that.
|
| More importantly, FSR4 (currently) doesn't support RDNA3, so
| you'll be limited on upscaling too.
| gps0 wrote:
| Unofficially you can use FSR4 on RDNA3
| hs86 wrote:
| Not sure how heavy SteamOS is, but wouldn't modern games
| actually prefer a flipped memory configuration? So, 8 GB RAM
| and 16 GB VRAM would make this a more 'balanced' gaming
| appliance. But it is advertised as a general purpose PC, so 8
| GB RAM wouldn't be enough.
| Yokolos wrote:
| 8GB just isn't enough for modern AAA games. Battlefield 6,
| probably the most highly optimized AAA game to have come out
| in the past few years, still has a 16GB RAM minimum and Arc
| Raiders, which is also incredibly optimized, still has a 12GB
| minimum. Games are only going to become more resource hungry
| from here, so 8GB in early 2026 would be a terrible idea.
| cheema33 wrote:
| > most highly optimized AAA game to have come out in the
| past few years, still has a 16GB RAM minimum.
|
| Are you talking about VRAM or system RAM? Steam machine has
| 16GB of system RAM and is expandable. VRAM is limited to
| 8GB.
| Yokolos wrote:
| I'm talking about RAM. Otherwise I would've written VRAM.
| I was replying to a comment saying it would be better if
| the Steam Machine had 8GB of RAM and 16GB of VRAM.
| vel0city wrote:
| https://www.ea.com/en/games/battlefield/battlefield-6/syste
| m... Minimum PC System Requirements
| OS: Windows 10 (Proton, maybe, probably anti-cheat issues)
| Processor(AMD): AMD Ryzen 5 2600 (Yep [?] ) . . .
| Memory: 16GB (Yep, 16GB of system RAM [?] )
| Graphics Card(AMD): AMD Radeon RX 5600 XT 6GB (8 GB of RAM
| [?] )
|
| I do agree 8GB of VRAM is a little low for a device to
| release in 2026 though. But it technically does meet all
| memory requirements for Battlefield 6.
| Yokolos wrote:
| I was replying to a comment saying it would be better if
| the Steam Machine had 8GB of RAM and 16GB of VRAM. My
| point being that 8GB of RAM, not VRAM, would not be
| sufficient.
| wiredpancake wrote:
| Battlefield 6 being "highly optimized" is a joke.
|
| Runs pretty poorly on a RTX 4080 with 5800X3D @ 1440p.
|
| It also legitimately looks worse than the Battlefields that
| predate it, even up to Battlefield 1, which is over a
| decade old now.
|
| A better example is Arc Raiders.
| Yokolos wrote:
| Sorry, no. You're wrong. It's extremely optimized. I get
| 60-100 FPS on a 3060. It's ridiculously optimized. If
| you're having issues, it's particular to your system for
| some reason.
|
| I remember 2042 being significantly worse when it
| launched. I've also played almost every other AAA launch
| of recent years from Elden Ring to Borderlands 4. They
| all run worse than BF6, even now.
| commakozzi wrote:
| And it most definitely does NOT look worse than previous
| Battlefields. OP has a problem with his setup.
| esskay wrote:
| The RAM's upgradable, it's standard DDR5 on a SODIMM module
| aboringusername wrote:
| Games publishers/developers are going to have to wind in their
| necks a little. Whilst memory is abundant it's also still quite
| expensive. We should still be aiming for efficiency and the
| chances are 16gb+ are in the minority here. Fact is, the more
| VRAM and compute you demand the smaller your customer-base
| becomes.
|
| I've played many games with 8GB VRAM* and will do so for the
| forseeable. If that's not enough, I am not a customer. Simple
| as.
|
| The truth is, there is going to be a massive motivation with
| the likes of Steam Deck/Machine to actually make titles that
| are optimised and perform well within their hardware
| parameters. It's money you won't want to ignore.
|
| *One example was Silent Hill remake on PC, which used the
| unreal engine. It was optimised beautifully and ran without
| visual glitches and stutters even with the highest graphic
| demands on a 8GB RTX
| esskay wrote:
| I think it does also help that a big chunk of Steams userbase
| are playing smaller indie titles that don't need obscene
| amounts of vram. The steam deck audience for example has a
| lot of people playing both a mix of AAA and smaller games.
| Given this is advertised as 6x as powerful as the deck I'm
| sure they'll be fine. It's not meant to be a top of the line
| console thats for sure, and if it was people would be moaning
| that its too expensive.
| lawlessone wrote:
| Not using the highest settings obviously but i can run RD2
| and CP2077 on the deck fine.
|
| It will be a while before there is ps6 or new xbox.
| esskay wrote:
| oh 100% I've completed CP, RD2, Fallout 4, and god knows
| how many other games, it handles it all like a champ.
| Valves clearly following their own hardware survey
| results on their hardware plans as the modest specs are
| better than what most people active on steam are using
| right now so I think it'll be fine
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| Memory is also not that abundant anymore. Over the last month
| PC memory costs have more than doubled due to AI datacenter
| builds buying out all the manufacturing capacity.
| msabalau wrote:
| You always have the option of streaming a game, though.
|
| 8 GB is good enough for most everything, and can you stream on
| an exception basis, if something truly demanding catches your
| eye.
| energy123 wrote:
| It should be good enough for any game with a toggle on
| textures quality, which is pretty much every big title for
| the foreseeable future?
| reactordev wrote:
| These links open the Steam app on my phone and crash. :(
| teroshan wrote:
| Opening them in a private tab circumvents that behavior (at
| least for me)
| phreack wrote:
| I had to install the app to try and work around a problem with
| Steam, and then had the same problems just browsing. You can
| probably disable that behavior, but I ended up just
| uninstalling the app entirely.
|
| The support experience was so bad that I got really soured on
| Valve, and can't even get excited for these announcements now.
| reactordev wrote:
| If I uninstall the app, I'm unable to login to Steam due to
| 2FA.
| hollow-moe wrote:
| Forcing the use of the steam app for 2FA is such an ass move.
| Keeping this as a reminder of Valve still being a corporation
| with interests that can shift to the worst in a single day.
| aniviacat wrote:
| KeePassXC supports Steam's TOTP.
| hollow-moe wrote:
| I sure won't call reverse engineered function and root
| mandatory to extract the keys from the app, "not forcing
| the user".
| hyperpl wrote:
| Wonder if there is a good remote with voice input to use for
| YouTube and Kodi so I can replace my shield TV.
| Loughla wrote:
| I haven't had any problems with my shield since the update that
| killed it about 3 years ago.
|
| Or maybe I've just gotten used to it?
|
| Are you having issues with yours?
| buu709 wrote:
| My Shield is 7 or 8 years old at this point and still going
| strong. Was very much hoping for something like this from
| Steam just in case something were to happen to it.
| fph wrote:
| How much?
| babblingfish wrote:
| In 2026 we should be getting Windows on a Xbox console with the
| Xbox skinned version of windows. This would be a direct
| competitor to that since most PC gamers have the majority of
| their game library on steam.
| ksynwa wrote:
| > the Xbox skinned version of windows
|
| Isn't that what the ROG Xbox Ally devices have? At least that's
| what it looked like to me. Something like a SteamOS's gaming
| mode counterpart for Windows.
| babblingfish wrote:
| Yes, the xbox skinned version of windows is in the ROG Xbox
| Ally
| robotnikman wrote:
| And iirc it performed worse than SteamOS due to all the
| Windows bloat.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| From what I could tell, the ROG Xbox device was just Windows
| desktop mode with a full screen "Xbox" application open,
| which you can minimise and see the normal desktop behind it.
| creaturemachine wrote:
| If MS even bothers to make another xbox this is what it will
| be.
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| One (maybe the only) advantage that the hypothetical new
| Windows-based Xbox console is that it'll be able to play all
| online games that require anti-cheat like COD, Battlefield, and
| Fortnite. All games that are mega-popular but are unfortunately
| unwilling to support anti-cheat on Linux.
| hasperdi wrote:
| Does anyone know the price?
| daedrdev wrote:
| they have yet to announce the price
| haunter wrote:
| "Steam Machine's pricing is comparable to a PC with similar
| specs" [0]
|
| I's say max ~800EUR at this point
|
| 0, https://www.theverge.com/tech/818111/valve-steam-machine-
| han...
| smoovb wrote:
| Maybe we are meant to vote on it. I vote $299.
| max-leo wrote:
| > HDMI 2.0
|
| The HDMI Forum yet again rearing it's ugly head by continuing to
| block GPU manufacturers from implementing HDMI 2.1 in the Open
| Source drivers
| klipklop wrote:
| Yup. This really needs to be fixed. There have been on-going
| bug reports on it for years. AMD just needs to move the hdmi
| 2.1 stuff behind a firmware binary blob already like NVIDIA
| does. It's so annoying not having full quality HDMI. It's the
| only think keeping me from using Linux on my current gaming PC
| that is hooked exclusively up to my TV... Either that or TV's
| need to start having Display Port.
| TheTon wrote:
| This is a big miss for me. I can't use my TVs 120Hz VRR mode
| without HDMI 2.1.
|
| I realize the Xbox Series X is beleaguered at this point, but
| apart from playing games that are on Steam but not Xbox, I
| can't see why I would prefer the Steam Machine.
| max-leo wrote:
| After commenting i looked up the actual capabilities of the
| port and it turns out while the port is officially only HDMI
| 2.0 it actually still supports 120Hz, HDR and VRR anyway. So
| basically it only doesn't support Display Stream Compression
| for 144Hz and beyond.
|
| I quickly tested this by connecting my PC running Linux with
| a RX 6800 to my TV (LG C4). 120Hz, VRR and HDR were all
| available.
| TheTon wrote:
| At 4K? Or are you limited to a lower resolution due to
| bandwidth constraints?
| imp0cat wrote:
| Try for yourself. I get 4k120Hz when connecting my laptop
| directly via HDMI.
| TheTon wrote:
| Yeah I have tried it for myself. I am limited to 4K60
| when using the HDMI 2.0 port on either my M1 Mac mini or
| M1 Pro MacBook Pro and LG B2 TV. I do get 4K120 with VRR
| with newer Macs with HDMI 2.1 as well as my Xbox Series
| X. It has been my understanding that 4K120 with HDR and
| VRR requires HDMI 2.1, which is why those HDMI 2.0
| limited systems don't work. Not having a Steam Machine
| myself, I would assume its HDMI 2.0 port would be
| similarly limited.
|
| Edit: I should add, I do get 4K120 VRR and HDR on the M1
| Macs when connected to a monitor via Thunderbolt or
| Thunderbolt to DisplayPort adapter, and I would expect a
| Steam Machine to be similar using DisplayPort, but my TV
| only has HDMI input and so can't work in this mode (and a
| Thunderbolt to HDMI adapter doesn't work either).
| max-leo wrote:
| Yes, 4K120Hz! My TV could do 144Hz but i couldn't select
| it so 4K120 seems to be the limit.
| moelf wrote:
| "Luckily," the hardware won't allow for 4k@120Hz on visually
| cutting edge games anyway.
| paulatreides wrote:
| "Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still your
| PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who
| are we to tell you how to use your computer?"
| lukan wrote:
| It might be PR speak ... but for me it is working.
| knome wrote:
| you can already do whatever you want to the steam deck. it's
| just linux with a readonly base that gets atomically updated.
| but you can rip it out and do whatever. it's your hardware.
| perihelions wrote:
| > _" SteamOS 3 (Arch-based)"_
|
| Holy shit, it's the Year of The Linux Desktop, for real this
| time. It's happening. It's _actually happening_.
|
| A standard Arch Linux/KDE[0] PC for every home, in a polished,
| vendor-supported package. Like Apple, it's a single standard
| hardware/OS pair, so, FOSS' fatal hardware-support hell might
| well be made obsolete. The vendor is a household name
| corporation. There's an incredibly fortuitous (for Linux) market
| dynamic at this point in time, of "commoditize your complement"--
| the dynamic that Valve has incentives to invest massively in
| giving away a nice thing for _free_ , because that does bad
| things to its competitors. And Steam is... the killer super-app
| to end all killer apps.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SteamOS
|
| This is real life!
| atonse wrote:
| If hype is to be believed, Omarchy is also pushing a lot of
| devs to Linux.
| erxam wrote:
| The only thing that crock of shit is attracting is grifter
| bucks.
| atonse wrote:
| Omarchy is free.
| erxam wrote:
| So? That doesn't mean D14HH isn't receiving "donations"
| for his "work".
| seabrookmx wrote:
| Any devs that find the visuals, keyboard driven workflow, or
| cult of DHH appealing enough to try Omarchy are likely
| already Linux users.
|
| Linux has been a great platform for devs for a long time.
| This is exactly why WSL exists, and why MacOS has a native
| Linux container[1] tool.. because Linux was eating their
| lunch in this user segment.
|
| [1]: https://github.com/apple/container
| atonse wrote:
| I've been using MacOS as my daily driver for 20 years
| exactly because it had the best mix of (what I used to say
| a while back), "Linux that works, and ain't ugly"
|
| OrbStack has solved all the issues I had with running
| containers on macOS. It's just a wonderful piece of
| software that just works. (Not arguing vs container, just
| specifying another option)
| seabrookmx wrote:
| It's really not Linux though. You don't get a modern GNU
| userland, or even a modern bash without having to brew
| install a bunch of stuff. You don't get the networking
| capabilities. You don't get a well tested and stable ZFS
| implementation. And Orbstack may be great but it still
| has to run a VM and a Linux kernel under the hood to run
| all your containers.
|
| For some, the Mac hardware or familiarity with the MacOS
| UI justifies these downsides. Personally, I'll take my
| Framework 13 with real actual Linux (Fedora workstation)
| every time :)
| embedding-shape wrote:
| The only thing I'd like to know, if the CPU/GPU will be
| replaceable? The specs say "Semi-custom AMD Zen 4" and "Semi-
| Custom AMD RDNA3", but I don't see "soldered" anywhere, so I
| guess maybe they'll be switchable? If not with off-the-shelves
| components, maybe Valve will offer their own upgrade kits in the
| future?
| zorked wrote:
| > I don't see "soldered" anywhere, so I guess maybe they'll be
| switchable
|
| Unfortunately that's quite a logical jump...
| embedding-shape wrote:
| Yeah, I mean my comment is all speculation, guesses and
| opinions. Given the limited information, some jumping is
| required, if at least in order to ask questions :)
| opencl wrote:
| Given the memory configuration it seems _extremely_ unlikely
| that it 's socketed. It's certainly not AM5.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| You mean "16GB DDR5 + 8GB GDDR6 VRAM" or something else? I
| took it just as they didn't want to put VRAM next to the GPU
| for some reason, rather than them actually being linked
| somehow. Maybe I misunderstand.
| cflewis wrote:
| RDNA 3 is going to hold this machine back. DLSS is far and away
| better, but Nvidia's apathy towards Linux has made playing on
| something like Bazzite a worse experience. Nvidia has little
| reason to keep investing in Windows gaming drivers given the AI
| race, so seeing DLSS 4 or something on Linux is a pipe dream.
|
| I think this machine will be decent for most people, but it's
| no-one with a 3080 is going to be looking at this and thinking
| "this is worth it", as it's probably coming in at about $750.
| The question is whether it'll have power parity with whatever
| the next Xbox is.
| keyringlight wrote:
| Unless AMD/Valve pull a rabbit out of a hat it'll also be
| missing FSR4 which needs RDNA4, and is AMD's pretty-damn-
| close catch up to DLSS.
| ZekeSulastin wrote:
| I thought DLSS4 did work on Linux, and a quick glance at
| r/linux_gaming seems to say the same.
|
| I agree about RDNA3 holding it back; given its specs I'm
| hoping its significantly cheaper than $750.
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| Pretty much all (non-Apple) computers in this form factor have
| a soldered CPU and GPU (and of course soldered VRAM), and slots
| for DIMMs and M.2.
| bangaladore wrote:
| Unless you made a typo here-- Apple's equivalent to this is
| Mac Mini, which has soldered CPU, GPU and RAM (and also the
| SSD as its not soldered, but it's not standard).
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| Yes, that was my point, Mac Mini solders components that
| are not soldered on most other computers of that form
| factor, but a socketed CPU or GPU would be extremely
| unusual.
| haunter wrote:
| Soldered, not upgradable
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWUxObt1efQ&t=591s
| embedding-shape wrote:
| Shame, but makes sense. Thanks for finding it out for us!
|
| You happen to know if the same is true for the RAM? Video
| seems to mention soldered CPU and GPU only, I skimmed the
| video but didn't see it mentioned.
| robotnikman wrote:
| I'm seeing conflicting info on the RAM. Some are saying its
| soldered, others are saying its replaceable.
| amlib wrote:
| It might be because the gpu ram is soldered but the cpu
| ram is replaceable?
| butlike wrote:
| I mean, honestly, do you ask the same question about a
| PS5/Xbox? At a certain point, just build an upgradable PC. I'd
| equate this product more to a home console than a PC at this
| point
| embedding-shape wrote:
| I do not, my expectations are also way lower for Sony and
| especially Windows (still, happy PS5 owner here). I already
| have a PC, thanks for asking!
|
| Steam specifically pitches this as a console+PC so I thought
| asking clarifying questions about the PC part of the product
| made sense.
| nalekberov wrote:
| Video games were the only reason for me to use Windows, now that
| Steam solved this problem no reason to look back anymore. I am
| also not big fan of multi-player games, so not being able to play
| games with anti-cheat system buried deep into their binaries
| isn't an issue.
| thadt wrote:
| Pretty much the only reason I boot to Windows anymore is to play
| games with my kids and family. The direction of this thing is
| dangerously close to being all I'd care about from a desktop
| computer.
|
| If Valve pivoted into making a well-supported laptop with good
| hardware that ran Linux _and_ played games...
| quasigod wrote:
| Just wondering, what games are you playing that dont run on
| Linux yet? I can't think of games I'd play much with family
| that dont work well
| neura wrote:
| I do not believe that _you_ are trolling with this question,
| but answering this is just asking to be trolled.
|
| That said. Fortnite. Yes, I still play it with friends and
| cannot play it on Mac or Linux. :(
|
| I'm sure others have similar examples. Also there are just
| simple things like playing with friends and streaming on
| Discord. Anybody streaming from Windows always comes across
| smooth and HD to the other participants while anybody on
| Linux seems to consistently be received (I don't know where
| exactly in the chain the problem exists, so just "received",
| as it may not be a broadcasting or encoding problem, I'm not
| an expert in this) with a lot of artifacts and lower
| framerates.
| andai wrote:
| A friend of mine, a Linux user, says he installed Windows
| for gaming. Apparently the main issue isn't actual
| compatibility for games, but that a lot of games require
| some kind of kernel level anticheat (rootkit?).
| seabrookmx wrote:
| Yes. Valorant and Battlefield 6, for example.
| cheald wrote:
| Yes, this is broadly true. Just about everything that
| does _not_ have Linux-disabling anticheat runs
| wonderfully on Linux these days. You can check
| https://protondb.com/ to see how any given game runs.
| inexcf wrote:
| Yes and they could just make it(the rootkits) work on
| linux. It's more about the publishers/devs actively
| opposing linux.
| rtkwe wrote:
| Alternatively it's still a pretty small slice of the
| market that's not willing to dual boot for the major
| games that do require windows only anticheats so it's
| just not worth their dev and support time to try to serve
| that small slice. Valve's work on Steam Machines/Decks is
| the thing needed to actually push developers to
| supporting it by providing a relatively consistent target
| OS and a large enough install base to justify spending
| the money to support.
| jsheard wrote:
| The major anti-cheats do support Linux, but it's opt-in
| on the dev side because they're _significantly_ easier to
| bypass than the Windows versions. It 's not even close,
| getting around the Linux ACs is child's play. It sucks
| but nobody really has a good solution yet.
| rtkwe wrote:
| Yep anticheats are one of the big hurdles to 'porting' a
| lot of online focused shooters to linux. It's an
| unfortunate situation but I get it from the company's
| perspective, not having any anticheat leads to shitty
| situations for way more players than not having a linux
| version of their anticheat and a vast majority of players
| have Windows devices or are willing to dual boot.
| grepex wrote:
| This is true. Battlefield 6 is in this boat
| tapland wrote:
| It's a few games, but a few very important ones.
|
| GTAVs online ecosystem with custom servers. Rust hasn't
| enabled Linux Battleye support. Valorant
|
| Some releases that are temporarily popular like BF6,
| playtest of Battleye games where Linux support isn't
| enabled (Fellowship, Exoborne). All games in this
| paragraph also by Swedish developers. Kom igen, linuxstod
| nickstinemates wrote:
| Escape from Tarkov is the only reason I have a Windows
| Hard drive still. It doesn't have anything else on it.
| bigyabai wrote:
| FWIW, PvE and modded Tarkov _does_ actually run fine on
| Linux (Streets map doesn 't, nor does Arena).
|
| It's definitely not the same, but between Arc Raiders and
| PvE I get my extraction shooter fix. Online Tarkov is
| mostly populated by Gaming Wizards(tm) anyways.
| nickstinemates wrote:
| Yes I am playing Arc Raiders now instead of Tarkov
| because switching is not worth it. Until it will be!
| froggit wrote:
| EFT has a pretty ridiculous history with attempts at
| anticheat. Several years ago they set up their servers to
| kick anyone with virtualization enabled because cheaters
| had been using VMs to intercept network traffic (the
| network traffic wasn't encrypted for tarkov then). The
| response from cheaters was to use a seperate bare metal
| build to intercept the traffic. The devs "fixed" it right
| before windows 11 came out with virtualization on by
| default.
| mindcrash wrote:
| Some intrusive ones (EA's anti cheat for recent
| Battlefields, Activision's anti cheat for Call of Duty,
| anything from Riot to name a few) do not work.
|
| However, EAC - who is a major player in this field
| producing generic solutions - _does_ support Linux. The
| involved publisher, however, needs to approve this and
| the developer need to turn on a feature flag. That 's it.
|
| However, some publishers simply deny this for... totally
| mental reasons ...and this means that the game is marked
| as borked in protondb even though the game could as
| easily be played on Linux thanks to EAC's Linux support.
| belthesar wrote:
| "EAC supports Linux, but devs just won't turn it on" is
| the clickbait answer, but the details are more nuanced.
| EAC has multiple security levels that a title can set
| based on the threat model of the game, and most games
| with heavy MTX that use EAC shy away from it, largely
| because Fortnite doesn't do it. EAC is owned by Epic, and
| if Tim Sweeney says that you can't do MTX on Linux
| safely, then any AAA live services game with in-game MTX
| is going to shy away from it, regardless of how true the
| statement actually is.
| duskwuff wrote:
| "MTX" as in, microtransactions?
|
| What do microtransactions have to do with anticheat?
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| granting clientside without paying, things like that
| tempest_ wrote:
| You don't want someone having a skin that you are
| charging money for among other things.
| mindcrash wrote:
| The Finals has mtx, is protected by EAC, and is playable
| on Steam Deck.
|
| Throne and Liberty, which is also protected by EAC and
| has mtx, is also playable on Steam Deck.
|
| So this is bullshit and it clearly shows it's the
| publisher's choice. What Sweeney thinks has nothing to do
| with it.
| agoodusername63 wrote:
| no it shows those guys are willing to take the risk and
| learn the water is fine.
|
| most aren't
| fullstop wrote:
| > What Sweeney thinks has nothing to do with it.
|
| I don't know if this is a fever dream or if it actually
| happened, but I seem to recall reading something about
| Tim Sweeney using Linux for a week to see how it
| compared. If he liked it, Epic Megagames would publish
| titles w/Linux support. He ended up complaining about
| some irrelevant things in KDevelop and it was pretty
| clear what his intentions were before even trying things.
|
| I can't find any reference to this online, but I'm pretty
| sure that it happened. This would have been ~1998.
|
| edit: It may have been Mark Rein?
| Cloudef wrote:
| You are only safe if you run Tim's rootkit :)
| quasigod wrote:
| I dont think I'm getting trolled, I know that loads of
| games still dont work. I just wanted to get an idea of
| which games are the current biggest ones holding people
| back.
| thadt wrote:
| Fortnite & Call of Duty
|
| If I could travel back in time and prevent my kids and
| nephews from ever learning about Fortnite, I might do it.
| Instead I'm out here trying to keep from getting sniped by a
| Simpson character.
|
| Fortunately, it seems like the rest of the family is getting
| tired of COD's ceaseless churn, and might be willing to pick
| up something else.
| haunter wrote:
| Fortnite is a fun game though, it's the only game holding
| me back from fully switching to Linux. Cloud streaming just
| doesn't cut it, latency is way too high (+ more money for a
| single game)
| quasigod wrote:
| Ah I had kinda forgotten Fortnite exists haha. I think I
| assumed your kids were younger.
| babuskov wrote:
| Does Roblox run on Linux?
| andoando wrote:
| BF6 and any multiplayer EA games with anticheat
| OGWhales wrote:
| Apex is an EA game and actually ran great on Linux until
| they removed support. Unfortunate, but they said it was
| necessary to combat cheaters though that claim is somewhat
| dubious since cheaters is perfectly viable on Windows
| still.
| seviu wrote:
| FIFA is another one that comes to mind, or however they
| call it these days.
|
| Also from EA
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Battlefield 6, GTA V online, Escape From Tarkov, likely GTA
| VI
|
| Imagine not supporting the latest releases that all your
| friends are playing.
| quasigod wrote:
| Zero of my friends are playing any of these games. GTA VI
| will probably do the console first release thing anyways.
|
| Edit: Fair enough to the other ones though. This comment
| wasnt meant to be inflammatory or argumentative, but
| clearly someone else believed it was.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| What's the point of arguing like this? You're asking for
| experiences from people, then when people give you proper
| answers it glides off with "well no one I know plays
| those anyways". Isn't the discussion larger than your
| personal and private experiences, if you're discussing in
| public like this?
|
| You seemed to have some initial claim that "all games
| actually work perfectly fine, prove me wrong" but then
| you don't seem to actually want to engage faithfully
| anyways.
| navigate8310 wrote:
| They think HN is Reddit, notorious with its flaming war
| Whinner wrote:
| Steam Box 2 will be out before GTA VI
| Ferret7446 wrote:
| Depends on your friend group; statistically speaking
| they're more like to play ARC raiders than EFT which does
| run on Linux
| barbazoo wrote:
| Trying to get RDR2 to work on Linux, so far no luck.
| delduca wrote:
| I play it on Linux, try Proton hotfix.
| remuskaos wrote:
| I've played it on the Steamdeck without issue.
| OGWhales wrote:
| For me it's only games the specifically don't support Linux,
| which are mostly competitive multiplayer games with anti-
| cheat software. Apex Legends used to work great on Linux, but
| they removed support as an attempt to combat cheaters (there
| are still tons of cheaters).
| AndroidKitKat wrote:
| In addition to what others have said, a group of friends
| still plays enough League of Legends that I don't both dual
| booting. Also if you play RuneScape (RS3, not OSRS) the best
| 3rd party add-on, Alt1 Toolkit, only works on Windows.
| dmoy wrote:
| For me the thing that pushed me to reinstall windows after I
| got a cheap $10 copy was Kerbal Space Program. Though, in my
| specific case I strongly suspect it was older hardware &
| driver issues than anything else, since I've not had any
| major problems on steam deck.
|
| I do have more random crashes on certain games even on steam
| deck, but not as bad as Kerbal Space Program on my old (12
| yr) desktop.
|
| Factorio seems to work better on Linux. Which is both good
| and bad (since it's so addictive).
| Zekio wrote:
| Factorio can save without stopping the game on Linux, which
| it can't do on Windows, since they just fork the process
| and do it in the fork IIRC, which makes the saving
| something you basically don't think about on Linux, but
| bugs you when ever auto save runs on Windows last I checked
| SirMaster wrote:
| Battlefield, Call of Duty, Apex Legends, PUBG, Rainbow 6
| Siege, Fortnite
|
| Basically all the games I play regularly with my friends.
| InvertedRhodium wrote:
| Microsoft Flight Simulator
| ugurcant wrote:
| I was in the same shoes, then one day I decided to give a shot
| to Bazzite. To my surprise the installation was extremely
| smooth, and everything worked right away. Now I'm playing
| almost everything on it (Arc Raiders, EU V, HLL and Horizon FW
| recently). If you want to _try_ all you need is 15 minutes,
| some HDD space and an empty USB. You don't have to give up
| Windows at all, dual booting is also pretty smooth.
| gpderetta wrote:
| I have a bazzite box connected behind my TV. Even with a non
| optimal choice of graphic card (an old Nvidia) it works
| better than I was expecting.
| Whinner wrote:
| I also bit the bullet and did a bazzite install and am
| blown away how seamless it has been for what I need. All
| the games I like run on Steam. Even Diablo 4 runs through
| the Blizzard launcher which does take some work to get
| installed, but nothing you can't find in a youtube video.
|
| No issues using the system as my daily driver for personal
| things. I have dual monitors, one oriented vertically and
| one 144hz. All works great! I'd recommend it to anyone
| aryonoco wrote:
| The whole Universal Blue image ecosystem is so polished,
| consistent and coherent. Bazzite is their gaming image
| variant, I've also recently switched to Bluefin which is
| their Gnome variant on my workstation and everything
| works so nicely together, it's the most joy I've had
| using a computer in a long time.
| fullstop wrote:
| I've been very happy with Aurora-DX, which falls under
| the Universal Blue umbrella. I reboot it once a week to
| apply updates and I can roll back if I need to.
| barbazoo wrote:
| Loved the concept, tried it out, didn't work, at least not
| for RDR2 which I was trying to play. But how would it work,
| there is Linux, Bazzite, then there is Steam, RDR2 needs the
| Rockstar launcher, it's such an intricate web of
| dependencies, I'm not surprised something isn't working.
| computerex wrote:
| RDR2 has a gold rating:
| https://www.protondb.com/app/1174180
|
| It should work with some tinkering.
| lbschenkel wrote:
| I have finished RDR2 on Bazzite (story mode), zero issues.
| amlib wrote:
| When silly DRM or a game launcher is all that is keeping
| you from enjoying a game, that is when you get the pirated
| version without any of this bs and enjoy it without
| remorse.
| Wojtkie wrote:
| RDR2 works great on my AMD Linux machine.
| ZeWaka wrote:
| Worked fine for me on a Deck.
| agoodusername63 wrote:
| I apologize that nobody responding to you is understanding
| the point here that the last thing Linux gaming is, is
| consistent.
| akshitgaur2005 wrote:
| frankly at this point pirating the content seems a lot more
| convenient than some of these games, I wonder if those
| execs are trying to intentionally push us off
| fullstop wrote:
| RDR2 works on my Steam Deck. I had to use desktop mode to
| sign in once, but after that it's just worked from gaming
| mode.
|
| The screen is a little small, though, or my eyes are too
| old. Maybe both!
| SparkBomb wrote:
| Gaming on Linux is hit and miss, depending on the distro you
| use and your desktop environment. Some games should be
| launched with gamescope if you are using Gnome/GDM
|
| To have HellDivers run in borderless window on Debian 14. It
| required me to manually compile gamescope (wasn't that
| difficult but Valve's instructions are out of date), and use
| the backports on Trixie to upgrade the kernel to 6.16, and
| update wireplumber and pipewire (sound was flakey on some
| games). Kernel 6.16 performs much better than 6.12 just
| generally.
|
| All the Arkham games work perfectly. Doom Eternal has some
| weird latency in the mouse and aiming doesn't feel right.
|
| I could never get my Xbox One bluetooth controller behaving
| with Linux. I ended buying a 8bitdo Xbox style controller
| which works perfectly. It is much better made than the Xbox
| controller and roughly the same price.
| terribleperson wrote:
| So to be fair about Helldivers, it doesn't even reliably
| work on Windows.
|
| I have to install a two year old AMD driver to get
| Helldivers to recognize my GPU.
| SparkBomb wrote:
| I've had zero issues on Windows. None at all. I have a
| AMD GPU.
|
| Linux issues have been poor performance generally. Once I
| installed kernel 6.16 that was fixed.
| crowbahr wrote:
| That's why the correct choice is Bazzite
| SparkBomb wrote:
| No the correct choice is what I want to use and it is
| Debian. Distro-hopping doesn't fix your problems and you
| will end up with either the same issues or more issues by
| distro-hopping.
|
| I use my Linux machine for things other than games and I
| am not moving to "distro of the week" to run one game.
| tapoxi wrote:
| That's fair but Debian is shipping you multi year old
| packages when you want the latest drivers and mesa for
| games.
|
| Bazzite has those, and you can just jump into a Debian
| Distrobox for development.
| SparkBomb wrote:
| Debian 13 has mesa 25 which seems to be the latest or
| very close to the latest and installing an updated kernel
| was trivial via backports.
|
| People exaggerate the problems of using a stable distro.
| Arisaka1 wrote:
| >People exaggerate the problems of using a stable distro.
|
| Stability isn't a problem, it's a feature. Companies
| trust Debian, Ubuntu LTS, etc. for their servers EXACTLY
| because the packages are old.
|
| This isn't the case with desktop computers, where the
| latest optimizations are delivered weekly if not monthly,
| and may improve performance across the board.
| fullstop wrote:
| Sorry, but Debian 13 was recently released. Just three
| months ago, you would have been stuck on Mesa 22.
| LooseMarmoset wrote:
| Usually Debian testing will get you where you need to go
| with Steam and gaming. The stable branch won't git r dun
| for you usually.
| SparkBomb wrote:
| I find you can get a fair way with using backports. I am
| running the latest kernel and pipewire gubbings.
| pferde wrote:
| I've been playing games on Debian Stable for many years
| now, and although there were some issues back when the
| Linux Steam client first came out, in past five or so
| years, I noticed that I tend to forget to even check
| whether a game works with Proton before buying, and I
| haven't had any issues playing all sorts of games.
|
| Of course, I don't play AAA slop that's essentially
| rootkits with a game attached on the side, but even more
| reasonable AAA titles tend to work just fine.
|
| What I'm trying to say is that this "debian stable is
| from previous century" confusion needs to die. They had
| one or two slightly longer periods between two stable
| releases, many years in the past, but that seems to be
| all people remember.
| crowbahr wrote:
| The correct choice if you don't want to spend all that
| time fucking around with your configs to play a game is
| Bazzite. If you value something more than the time you
| save then sure, use Debian for that ineffable reason: but
| don't bitch and moan about Linux being hard to play games
| on just because you're using a distro that isn't designed
| for it.
|
| Bazzite makes gaming easy and is the Linux distro for
| gaming.
| LooseMarmoset wrote:
| A few games I've tried required a little fiddling to work
| correctly. Some of these, like Dark Souls, required me to
| get a Windows patcher to run in linux to patch a windows
| binary, which required me to launch the patcher from Proton
| in Steam, and know where Steam installed the game. Not
| straightforward at all, but it can be done. I would not
| call it an experience for the average Windows gamer.
|
| Some of the latest shooters, will get you banned because
| anti-cheat.
|
| That said, there's nothing in my library (180 games!) that
| doesn't run in Linux, and I have a number of games that you
| can't even get to run in Windows at all anymore.
|
| I think the gaming community should all send Gabe Newell a
| Valentines Day card, or maybe a Christmas gift, or
| something. Seriously, the man has done so much for gaming,
| think of where we'd be without him. Windows App Store, Sony
| Game Store, walled gardens...
| dbspin wrote:
| How's the Nvidia driver support in Bazzite?
| nicolaslem wrote:
| I used to also have a dedicated Windows machine just for
| gaming, but two years ago I formatted the Windows drive and put
| SteamOS (via ChimeraOS) instead. I can legitimately say that it
| has been more stable than running the same games on Windows.
| Just flawless.
| akshitgaur2005 wrote:
| now with gabecube, maybe steamos would be directly available
| for desktop too
| com2kid wrote:
| I've been using Pop_OS, buggy as hell but steam games work
| great!
|
| Everything is kinda a dumpster fire, but they nailed steam
| games.
| quasigod wrote:
| Pop_OS is pretty rough. Theyre running on a super outdated
| base while working on COSMIC
| com2kid wrote:
| The pop shop app being single threaded is just
| embarrassing. Do a search, the entire UI freezes up until
| the search is complete.
|
| Also updates regularly break my KDE session and I have to
| restart my display server.
|
| Sometimes I have to switch to a tty and back to my
| graphical console to get my display back.
|
| It is a mess all around.
|
| I haven't managed to get my GPU working in Docker, ugh.
|
| That said, it does work. Mostly.
| marcianx wrote:
| Agreed about POP Shop being slow. I recently learned that
| they were working on its replacement: "COSMIC store"
| (written in Rust + Iced), and it's super-fast. You can
| try it with `sudo apt install cosmic-store`.
| bprew wrote:
| The 24.04 beta is really stable and the new cosmic DE is
| great! I've got it on my desktop and laptop, no problems.
|
| System76.com/pop/pop-beta
| com2kid wrote:
| I actually really like my current customized KDE desktop. I
| have it all setup with transparency everywhere and a fully
| animated shader desktop wallpaper. Basically the opposite
| of everything Gnome stands for. :D
| MrBra wrote:
| For me it's been super stable. I've hardly seen any bugs. And
| in those remote cases, it would be more correct to call them
| quirks than bugs, which have later been fixed anyway. I've
| been using for intensive gaming, AI projects, and audio
| production. And when I say audio production I don't say
| Audacity. I say recent versions of Ableton Live running on
| ASIO drivers with windows VSTs and Max 4 Live instruments at
| 5 ms latency, all of this running through Wine with an
| amazing Wine managing software called Bottle (hehe). As for
| gaming,, it's not hard to see people claming they get even
| more fps than they get with windows. It's not a PopOS thing,
| it's the Linux ecosystem that is finally getting mature
| enough to pull this out (this time for real). On top of this,
| System74, the company behind PopOS who is selling laptops
| with that OS, are also optimizing the kernel to make sure
| everything runs super smoothly... I really don't see where
| your "buggy as hell" is coming from.
| com2kid wrote:
| Half the time updates require me to restart X (or Wayland,
| whichever I am using at the moment).
|
| Coming out of sleep is hit or miss. It works more often
| than I expected but sure as heck isn't 100%.
|
| Graphical corruption slowly sets in with QT based apps over
| several days and then I have to restart my display server
| again.
|
| (This actually seems to have gone away with the an update a
| month ago!)
|
| Not knowing if I'll be able to sit down at my machine and
| have it boot up I consider buggy as hell.
|
| Oh and certain items in pop shop, just clicking on them
| crashes the entire app. Every time, 100% reproducible.
|
| Some apps have 2 listings, one of which crashes pop shop to
| look at, the other of which typically works.
|
| Some apps just cannot be installed through pop shop, just
| nope, not going to happen.
| catears wrote:
| Like other commenters, I also recently made the switch. Figured
| I would dual-boot windows but have never needed to boot it back
| up again.
|
| ProtonDB is a goldmine when a game doesn't work. Oh, and
| switching from Nvidia GPU to AMD GPU seems to have worked great
| to get games to "just work".
| agentifysh wrote:
| one limitation for Bazzite for instance would be some titles
| that require anti-cheating won't work but just like OP, only
| use case I have for windows is gaming and running some
| banking app which won't work on non-Windows device
|
| love to see more and more users realize they can game just
| fine on linux
| drnick1 wrote:
| It's time to stop buying such games and send game studios a
| signal that we won't tolerate rootkits and/or closed
| platforms. Anti-cheats should run server-side, or better
| yet, servers should be community-operated. I would probably
| bought BF6, but since I exclusively use Arch, EA lost a
| sale -- too bad for them there are thousands of other games
| that work flawlessly on Linux.
| rft wrote:
| I want to echo a previous comment of mine on this topic:
|
| With the rise of mainstream-compatible, as in a standard
| gamer can get them running and use them with a similar
| frustration level as Win11, Linux first systems like
| steam deck, steam machine and even steam frame, there is
| a real, even if currently low, pressure for big publisher
| to support Linux/SteamOS. I somewhat hope/fear there will
| be a blessed SteamOS version that supports anticheats
| enough for publishers like EA, Epic and Riot to accept
| the risk.
| pdimitar wrote:
| It has been time for long time and I support your stance
| but the big publishers only speak money. I gather they
| still have enough customers for their mainstream AAA
| titles.
|
| But I would like to think that Valve it indirectly
| putting pressure on them. I too am not far from removing
| Windows and making the full jump to Linux for my gaming
| needs.
| antonyh wrote:
| Rumour has it that after the Crowdstrike fiasco future
| versions of Windows won't allow kernel level modules. I
| can only hope this is true if it kills off the main
| reason titles don't work on Linux as a side effect. I'd
| have bought BF6, some version of EAFC, and more.
| rollcat wrote:
| > Anti-cheats should run server-side [...].
|
| This. It should actually be easier to catch offenders -
| you're leaning on hundreds of years of applied
| statistics, rather than racing versus sneakier exploits.
|
| > [...] or better yet, servers should be community-
| operated.
|
| I'm conflicted about this one. I've wanted to host a game
| server at home since 2003, but couldn't get a public,
| static IP. The landscape hasn't changed much, perhaps
| even for the worse: a Quake 3 dedicated server could be
| run from a mid-range laptop while playing the game;
| Minecraft and Factorio (both great games with fantastic
| communities), by that measure, have unreasonable hardware
| requirements.
|
| So, you pay a host.
|
| OTOH there's many ways for a studio to build and operate
| an ethical live service. Check out Warframe: it's 100%
| F2P, the main source of revenue is cosmetics, and it's
| easy for people to gift stuff (whales spill their pockets
| reinforcing community goodwill, rather than gambling).
|
| It's best when a game offers both, e.g. Brood War.
| StarCraft II isn't "simply" dying; lack of LAN play
| actively hinders on-site, professional tournaments. And
| we can do nothing about it.
| MrDrMcCoy wrote:
| There's lots of neat tricks for DHT peer discovery and
| NAT hole punching these days. Wouldn't be hard to make a
| local game sever manager that lets you share join
| information to your friends and have it automatically
| resolve all the networking needed with no VPN, static IP,
| or DNS required.
| not_a9 wrote:
| (I had to make a HN account to reply to this, but...) If
| only Riot, Epic, BE, whoever else knew about this
| wondrous approach! That way they wouldn't have to reverse
| half the Windows kernel to figure out ways to stop &
| detect hacks.
|
| Valve (mostly) does serverside analytics for CS2 and the
| success of their approach can be measured by one of
| FaceIT's benefits being "we have a working anticheat".
|
| On a sidenote, I highly recommend this presentation on
| anticheat stuff: https://game-
| research.github.io/presentations/2025-08-06-bhu...
| Hikikomori wrote:
| Always fun to read the "why don't they just..." Comments
| like it's an easily solved problem.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| This promises 4k 60fps gaming and Valve is good with hardware,
| so this is an immediate buy from me if it's under 1000EUR
|
| No need to mess around building a gaming PC anymore.
| brailsafe wrote:
| > This promises 4k 60fps gaming and Valve is good with
| hardware, so this is an immediate buy from me if it's under
| 1000EUR
|
| Does it promise that? It seems like the hardware might do it,
| didn't see that anywhere
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Valve says it runs 4k 60fps with FSR and I trust them.
|
| NOTE: it's _not_ "4k60 at ultra detail", which seems to be
| implied in the minds of some PC gamers =)
| brailsafe wrote:
| Hmm, you're right, weird that I didn't that initially, I
| wonder if it was just because all the background videos
| showed errors at the time and might have messed with the
| page layout
| phdelightful wrote:
| It's <= a Radeon 7600 GPU (28 CUs RDNA3 vs 32), so I'm not
| sure I'd have advertised it as a 4k60 machine. Then again I'm
| not a marketer so what do I know. 4k60 is a flexible target
| with FSR I suppose.
| seanalltogether wrote:
| Same, if they also released something like a Steam Machine Pro
| with more ram+vram and bit higher specs I would instantly
| purchase it. Nvidia and AMD have been rightly criticized for
| releasing 8GB video cards in the past year and valve shouldn't
| be immune to that criticism.
| rft wrote:
| Would be great of Valve to just drop a Steam Machine Max++
| with an AMD Ryzen AI 395 and 128GB unified memory. I know
| this is not going to happen, but SteamOS should boot fine on
| that SoC, so you can DIY a Steam Machine that also runs LLMs
| (albeit a bit slow) :).
| gavinsyancey wrote:
| It sounds like you want to install Bazzite on a Framework
| Desktop.
| kulahan wrote:
| Extremely hard pass on a laptop. They already have the steam
| deck, and now they have this. Whether you want it portable or
| not, there are options. Laptops always end up being just...
| _so_ disappointing.
| baby wrote:
| the limit last time was anything competitive or multiplayer
| that required a weird launcher or some low-level permissions or
| something. I just want to play CS2 and hunt showdown.
| nxpnsv wrote:
| I recently got a tiny and mighty GPD win mini. I booted windows
| once to shrink the data partition and installed Bazzite Linux.
| Painless install, never even considered booting in win again,
| and so far all games I tried worked flawlessly. I know there
| are issues with anti-cheat, but I usually don't even like those
| games..
| utopiah wrote:
| > If Valve pivoted into making a well-supported laptop with
| good hardware that ran Linux and played games...
|
| SteamDeck is out since February 2022 and does all that. You can
| use a BT mouse&keyboard, plug a USB-C screen or dongle for
| HDMI. I did live presentations with that quite a few time. It's
| just a computer with another form factor.
|
| It's not "dangerously close", it's been there for years now.
|
| Basically only competitive gaming with kernel level anti-cheat
| are problematic.
| spydum wrote:
| seconding this. I bought a SteamDeck OLED -- and it blows my
| mind more people havent heard about these. it's essentially a
| bad ass handheld laptop. yes it plays games great, but the OS
| side when you boot into desktop mode is quite capable - I
| spend more time on it than my home pc these days
| kartoffelsaft wrote:
| The thing that makes that different though is the
| packing/unpacking experience. With a laptop it's just...
| opening and closing the lid. With a steam deck (or really any
| mini PC with a screen and battery), if you go wireless as you
| suggest, there's now at least 3 devices (deck, KB, mouse)
| that need to be handled and charged separately. Given my
| previous negative experiences with BT I'd go wired but that
| makes every move take even more effort.
|
| I could see a setup with a case for the deck gives it a
| laptop form factor, but that doesn't seem like what you're
| suggesting. I might also ask how often you move your setup?
| My schedule requires I do so at least 8 times/week.
| MrDrMcCoy wrote:
| A Uperfect lapdock with a USB-C PD injector from one of the
| AR glasses sets (can be bought separately) is even more
| convenient for Deck as a laptop replacement.
| xxs wrote:
| >with my kids and family.
|
| if you have an AMD GPU, Linux Mint does everything - including
| installation, bluetooth and printing(!) better than Windows
| jabwd wrote:
| AMD GPU here, but I had issues connecting my Xbox controller
| to it and using it with Steam. On Bazzite this all works out
| of the box. Would love to know what the issue was but
| could've been my bluetooth chipset or something of the sort
| -- Don't know what Bazzite does differently from Linux Mint
| sadly.
|
| Overall barely ever in Windows anymore and a happy Linux
| gamer.
| xxs wrote:
| >with my kids and family.
|
| if you have an AMD GPU, Linux Mint does everything 'gaming' -
| on top of installation, bluetooth and printing(!) better than
| Windows
| mzhaase wrote:
| I made the switch to Linux for gaming maybe six months ago. I
| play A LOT of games and have only encountered a single game
| that didn't just work.
| HexPhantom wrote:
| They already proved with the Deck that you don't need Windows
| for a great gaming experience anymore
| jokoon wrote:
| Laptops are difficult to cool down, they're bad for gaming.
|
| Unless they remove fans, or have limited hardware, but that's
| already a steam deck: just add a keyboard and a larger screen.
| graynk wrote:
| I believe you're looking for https://system76.com/
| fullstop wrote:
| I have a System76 laptop, and I bought it because they
| supported Linux and because I could buy replacement parts if
| I needed them.
|
| The battery swelled, so I contacted them and they don't sell
| the battery anymore. I tried ordering one from, literally,
| half a dozen places online and was refunded each time because
| it simply does not exist.
| spaceman_2020 wrote:
| Only reason I even had a windows machine too. I got rid of it
| because I realized after a long tiring day sitting upright, I
| really did not find sitting even more upright and playing games
| relaxing. I wanted to plop down on the couch and do it. And it
| was a gigantic tower that was taking up too much space in my
| office
|
| If I could have a machine like this instead, I'd happily buy it
| instead. Windows has zero use for me other than playing games
| yencabulator wrote:
| Playing PC games with a controller, lounging back in a good
| recliner, is much more relaxing. Many games work great like
| that, and Steam tells you how well any particular game works
| with a controller.
| rockostrich wrote:
| > If Valve pivoted into making a well-supported laptop with
| good hardware that ran Linux and played games...
|
| The Steam Deck is kind of close to this although the screen
| isn't the best. I think the closest you can get to this right
| now is adding a graphics card module on a Framework laptop.
| lenerdenator wrote:
| To the HL3 faithful, this is your reminder that
|
| _NOTHING_
|
| _EVER_
|
| _HAPPENS_
| rawling wrote:
| This is the speculated-about gap in the Steam store events,
| then?
| 12_throw_away wrote:
| In this big hardware refresh, honestly most excited about finally
| getting a new steam controller [1], which feels like it might
| finally give us a better, more extensible standard than the
| extremely outdated XInput protocol (which still doesn't even
| support motion controls)
|
| [1] https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamcontroller
| LelouBil wrote:
| I'm just hoping it has a standalone "pretend it is an
| xbox/generic controller" mode that doesn't rely on steam, so I
| can bring it to friends easily.
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| No mention of dual stage trigger though, which was my cheat
| code in rocket league to have one button for accelerate and
| boost
| nisegami wrote:
| Hoping it's there just not mentioned.
| opan wrote:
| This controller seems more like it's going for parity with
| the Deck, which doesn't have dual stage triggers. I
| wouldn't get your hopes up.
| WXLCKNO wrote:
| Wow lol. I just posted the exact same comment, there are
| dozens of us! I literally cannot play rocket league without
| the steam controller for this reason.
|
| Also set rotate left and right to the grip triggers (roll in
| aviation terms I guess).
| pythonaut_16 wrote:
| Steamdeck has the dual stage triggers right? (Though maybe
| just in software?) I'd be shocked if the new controller is
| less capable than that.
| jorvi wrote:
| You can set a dual-stage trigger in Steam Input binding with
| any controller its trigger range, its not something unique to
| the Steam Controller.
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| Sure, but having a tactile bump in the travel makes it that
| much easier. I can see the argument that it might seem
| overcomplicated or confusing to typical users though.
| jorvi wrote:
| If we get really lucky, some gamer dev will look at the
| Sony DualSense driver (yes, they wrote and upstreamed an
| official one) and figure out a way on how to shim /
| expose the adaptive triggers to Steam Input bindings.
| fwip wrote:
| I wonder if the haptics are programmable enough to
| simulate that.
| 12_throw_away wrote:
| In my dream world, hardware enthusiasts would be constantly
| creating absolutely crazy game controllers with bizarre
| combinations of inputs that look nothing like an xbox 360
| controller. There'd be a universal input protocol that would
| allow for self-describing gamepads with arbitrary numbers of
| digital buttons, analog sticks and triggers, touchpads, mouse
| inputs, haptics, gyro sensors, levers, sliders, wheels, etc.
| etc.
|
| I realize this may not be practical, but it's kind of weird
| that PCs have been more or less stuck with a protocol designed
| for XBox 360 controllers for 2 decades now, while the locked-
| down console space is seeing much more experimentation and
| innovation around input. The original steam controller at least
| hinted at being sort of an open platform for this sort of
| thing, although it didn't really take off. Fingers crossed for
| the new version.
| rtkwe wrote:
| It's because the two-thumbstick, 8 face buttons, 2 shoulder
| and 2 trigger form factor covers so many games there's not
| been a real reason for super wacky controllers. They kind of
| hit it out of the park on the 360 design and the only real
| sticking point left is the exact ergonomics which mostly fall
| into the PS thumbstick position (both lower) vs XBox position
| (left high and right low).
| likeclockwork wrote:
| The Xbox controller doesn't even have a gyro. Xbox
| controller design is completely stagnant.
| jorvi wrote:
| Gyro aiming being on all 3 console platforms would be
| such a huge boon, because then it could finally get
| implemented in every shooter. And they could start
| heavily nerfing the frankly ridiculous aim assist that
| controllers currently get.
|
| Back buttons would be another nice one. Right now there's
| just 2-4 buttons too few on controllers, and it often
| leads to strange button mappings that either shift with
| context or require multi-button activations, which gets
| even more annoying if you have to do it during, say, a
| jump.
| rtkwe wrote:
| Is that something people are actually asking for? I don't
| think I've heard of anyone actually pushing for gyro
| aiming in major shooters like COD, Fortnite etc.
| likeclockwork wrote:
| It's one of those things that people who haven't
| experienced simply wouldn't know to ask for. Wii had
| motion aiming but it was more of a gimmick, it wasn't
| until playing FPS games on the first Steam Controller
| that I, personally, realized how much more playable and
| comfortable gyro aiming made these games-- coming from
| mouse+keyboard, I found fine-aiming challenges on
| thumbsticks to be very uncomfortable.
|
| Gyro aiming completely solves both fine aiming and
| tracking aim on a gamepad when paired with some kind of
| touch sensitive control for enabling the gyro (natural
| recentering).
|
| In console FPSes they just automatically track the enemy
| if they're near your crosshair and call it a day-- giving
| everyone an aimbot instead of solving the UX issue.
| rtkwe wrote:
| I've tried Gyro aiming and could not get used to it even
| in games where it's the 'superior' choice like my brief
| daliance with Splatoon.
| kipchak wrote:
| It takes a bit of time to get used to, and games don't
| necessarily do a great job explaining it. At first I
| preferred the stick also but eventually grew to prefer
| it. I'm not sure how popular it is but a fair number of
| games like Fortnite[1] and CoD do support it.
|
| For most people you're better having relatively high
| sensitivity on the gyro and using the stick for large
| movements. Using human pistol aim as a metaphor it's like
| the stick is your arm, and the gyro is fine tune aim in
| your wrist.
|
| [1]https://youtu.be/CiSS5OsNCNU
| rollcat wrote:
| Personal experience. First: I'm not a gamer. I'm honestly
| bad at aiming with the mouse. (Even in my personal
| favourites, SC1/2, much more intensive on raw mechanics
| than AoE or BAR.)
|
| I've first played Zelda BotW/TotK (which is very light on
| precise aiming), and I found the gyro both precise and
| intuitive. The game is nowhere near as fast-paced as a
| modern shooter, and the weakpoints are large enough to
| consistently crit. I enjoy the bow.
|
| Then I've Switched to Warframe - a looter-shooter. NO
| auto-aim. My first attempts to aim with the thumbstick
| were painful and felt pointless. The default sensitivity
| was very low, which I imagine was supposed to help
| aiming, but it made many parkour moves near-impossible
| (the game heavily relies on both). You could always press
| a button to place the camera behind your back, but that
| was two-step, non-incremental, and wouldn't help turning
| up/down.
|
| So I've cranked thumbstick sensitivity to the max -
| turning the camera whichever way was now easy; then
| committed 100% to the gyro for aiming. Honestly, I'm much
| more precise than I've ever been with the mouse. I can
| consistently land headshots (super important with
| incarnons), use bows / thrown / charged weapons, etc. My
| hit ratio is between 50-70% for most weapons.
|
| I'd now be hesitant to aim with a mouse. Thumbstick -
| out. But that's just personal experience.
| keyringlight wrote:
| One big reason would be that the 360 controller was when
| they first made it standard USB to connect, and introduced
| Xinput with the standard set of inputs for games to target.
| I expect most gamers wouldn't find it pleasant if they had
| to assign buttons and axis before the joypad would be
| active/useful, then hitting play and trying to remember
| what JOY_5 mapped to as used to be needed with directinput.
| rtkwe wrote:
| The number of sticks and inputs hasn't changed much since
| the XBox and PS1 days either though, it's not just that
| the 360 and XInput became a default. Outside of
| Nintendo's experimental time in the Wii and GameCube era
| it's been the default for several decades and even
| Nintendo has basically given up and come to the same
| format since about the Wii U days.
| dezgeg wrote:
| USB HID actually works pretty much how you describe, for
| instance a Physical Descriptor can contain metadata about
| which body part a button/control is supposed to be used with.
|
| It's extremely complicated however (like many things USB),
| which is probably why everything just emulates an XBox 360
| controller like you said.
| thefz wrote:
| Maybe with 10 fingers' budget, considering that at least
| three per side must hold the device, it's the most rational
| setup to allow for reaching two directional pucks and some
| buttons?
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| SInput recently released and got supported by SDL, which plenty
| of games, but also Steam Input uses. So you can already use
| SInput in Steam Input. Better than XInput for sure.
|
| https://docs.handheldlegend.com/s/sinput/doc/sinput-hid-prot...
|
| I don't think Steam has ever published specs for their
| protocol. And without Steam, their old controller would
| fallback to a mouse/keyboard mode. The Linux kernel drivers
| (that didn't require Steam) were reverse engineered. Hori
| released a Steam Controller recently. Even that still had an
| XInput fallback switch.
| torginus wrote:
| Isn't the lack of extensibility kind of the point?
|
| It forces everyone to make the same controller, so the
| developer knows what the user will have.
| WXLCKNO wrote:
| I love my OG steam controller still. I can't tell if this new
| one has the dual stage triggers like the og (like if there's an
| additional click on full trigger pull).
|
| I used that to set things like boost in rocket League and it
| felt super intuitive.
| esskay wrote:
| According to digital foundry it does have dual stage triggers
| jdiff wrote:
| Praise Gaben. That's the one thing I've needed in any
| replacement Steam Controller and Valve finally did it
| before the last of my OG Controllers gave up the ghost.
| bargainbin wrote:
| I think the person you're replying to has made a mistake:
| I looked extensively last night and there's no mention of
| the Steam Controller having dual stage triggers.
|
| However, the Steam Frame Controllers do. Seems weird they
| would add them on the Frame wands but not the actual
| controller replacing the controller that does have them.
| bargainbin wrote:
| First thing I checked for! I feel like it's such a niche
| feature but also distinctive. It's actually a "necessity" for
| a proper Gamecube emulation experience, which has the two
| stage shoulder buttons.
|
| Like you, I also used this for boost on Rocket League and it
| was surprisingly intuitive. You can map it to the triggers
| lowest threshold to emulate it but without the tactile bump
| to rest against it just won't work.
| WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
| The trackpads are a deal breaker for me
|
| They should have put them just above the joysticks, like the
| PS5 controller
|
| Better, they should have made them detachable with a magnet,
| similar to the Switch JoyCon's system, what a missed
| opportunity
| Yokolos wrote:
| > They should have put them just above the joysticks, like
| the PS5 controller
|
| I don't understand how that would be in any way ergonomic.
| The new Steam Controller's layout has a proven track record
| with the Steam Deck, which is essentially identical. It
| allows you to play KB&M games like Alpha Centauri on the
| Steam Deck without any external peripherals. It would be
| utterly unplayable if the trackpads were in the same place as
| the PS5's pad, which is basically just used to open a menu or
| map or for gimmicky in-game gestures.
| fwip wrote:
| I found the original Steam Controller's trackpad placement to
| be just about perfect.
| jorvi wrote:
| It looks way too chunky, just like the original Steam
| Controller, Steam Deck or original duke Xbox controller. Not
| everybody has Jack Reacher hands.
|
| Microsoft really did it right with the XSX controller. They
| took the old X360 / Xone design (perfect for large and medium
| hands) shrunk it slightly and then added cut-outs and and
| angled button surfaces (perfect for medium and small hands).
| The Elite is similarly good, with the back buttons being
| elongated and thin, meaning everyone can reach them comfortably
| without them getting in the way.
| lawn wrote:
| My kids have been using the steam deck since they were 3
| years old. Granted, their hands were a bit too small but the
| Deck is way more manageable than it appears.
| hurricanepootis wrote:
| I own a steam controller and have been using it for multiple
| years. It's actually really comfortable with the way it sits
| in my hand. Far more comfortable than whatever sony had going
| on with the PS4 dualsense stuff
| archon810 wrote:
| Maybe in size, but at least by weight, it's not bad at all.
|
| Steam Controller weight: 292g.
|
| Nintendo Switch 2 controller: 235g.
|
| Sony Playstation 5 DualSense controller: 280g. DualSense
| Edge: 322g.
|
| Xbox Wireless controller: 280g. Wireless Elite series 2:
| 345g.
| terribleperson wrote:
| You do not need big hands to use a classic steam controller,
| you just need to shift your grip. It's actually hard to use a
| steam controller with big hands. With long thumbs, the proper
| grip doesn't land your thumbs in the middle of the track
| pads.
|
| Failing to better communicate the proper grip for the steam
| controller was a real fuck up on valve's part though. They
| should have tried to communicate it through design, making it
| harder to hold wrong.
|
| I am kind of concerned about the size of the new controller,
| but valve seems to have decided there's no place in the
| market for a controller without sticks.
| rkangel wrote:
| As someone who has big hands (not chunky, just long fingers),
| I find the Steam Deck sooo comfortable and satisfying to
| hold. I still use my Nintendo Switch from time to time, but
| holding it now feels like it was designed for a child (which
| it was!).
| pixelready wrote:
| Same here. The trackpads on the steam deck work great. Might
| get this for docked mode. Kinda wish a splittable controller
| was more common for ergonomics ( not great to be clenching your
| chest on a centered object like that for hours on end, similar
| to non-split keyboards ). Seems like split controllers are
| still reserved for VR and nintendo switch style systems for
| now...
| gps0 wrote:
| Can't you just use joycons without a Switch or VR controllers
| without a headset on PC?
| archon810 wrote:
| I've been using a Stadia controller with my Steam Deck OLED but
| finally it'll have a worthy upgrade.
| the__alchemist wrote:
| I wonder how this will compare to the Dual Sense; the haptics
| on that would be tough to give up!
| mcnnowak wrote:
| I'm really disappointed that the new controller takes AA
| batteries though.
| alliao wrote:
| i love it... I have a whole set of fujitsu/eneloop NiMH
| batteries
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| Maybe more electronics should do this to avoid so much
| electronic waste as when the built in battery dies, it
| becomes junk.
| pipe01 wrote:
| The steam controller has a rechargable battery, maybe you're
| thinking of the steam frame controllers?
| HexPhantom wrote:
| If Valve can push a new standard that actually takes modern
| input seriously and gives devs better tooling, I'd be all for
| it
| weberer wrote:
| I just hope they give us an option to buy a controller with the
| face buttons in the "Nintendo" order rather than the "Xbox"
| order. Like how the 8bitdo pro comes in two versions. The only
| console I actually still care about these days is the
| Switch/Switch 2, so it would be nice to not have the button
| placement suddenly reversed when switching between controllers.
|
| https://www.8bitdo.com/pro2/
| clvx wrote:
| Valve, please partner with Framework. I think this could be a
| great partnership in the future and the whole ecosystem as a
| whole.
| bogwog wrote:
| What would a Framework partnership accomplish? Ship SteamOS as
| a preinstalled option for their laptops?
| robotnikman wrote:
| That actually would be a cool idea and doable.
| nicce wrote:
| Framework could already do that if they want.
| justinsaccount wrote:
| You seem to be forgetting the framework desktop which is very
| similar in form factor to the new steam machine:
| https://frame.work/desktop
| SunshineTheCat wrote:
| Being able to play PC-ish games without Windows (all on its own)
| makes this pretty interesting. Looking forward to seeing its real
| world performance. The fact that it doesn't take up the space of
| a household appliance is a plus too.
| dmix wrote:
| You can do that today with a Steam Deck + a dock. The
| performance is surprisingly good and most higher end games you
| buy on Steam will come with pre-configured steam deck settings
| to downgrade video settings if needed.
|
| I'm going to be buying the box though for the faster AMD chip,
| as I wasn't able to play some like Resident Evil 2 remake.
| While the Silent Hill 2 Remake played decent enough.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| What exactly do you mean by "pc-ish"? Setting aside steam deck,
| are you aware that you can already install steam on linux and
| play many games [0]? Are you aware of Bazzite [1]?
|
| 0 - https://www.protondb.com/
|
| 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazzite_(operating_system)
| bongodongobob wrote:
| Long time veteran Linux user. I was not able to get anything
| to run on Steam. It's some sort of display driver
| issue/conflict, but if it takes me longer than an hour, I'm
| over it.
| 9029 wrote:
| This is exactly where Bazzite is convenient since it comes
| with the latest drivers (including 32-bit) out of the box.
| daedrdev wrote:
| A mainstream desktop PC that supports most games without windows
| is actually a massive deal in the long term as I know plenty of
| people who don't like windows but didn't have an alternative
| thot_experiment wrote:
| > Who are we to tell you how to use your computer?
|
| i'm having a hard time describing the feelings this makes me
| feel. like i've been stressed, bedraggled and worn down, and
| suddenly there's a moment where i can just rest
|
| it's nice to be excited about something for once instead of the
| baseline expectation of a horrible adversarial experience, which
| is the case for most tech in 2025
|
| it is somewhat depressing that it's this novel to expect a piece
| of hardware to actually exist to make my life nicer vs the
| default of being an abomination that tries constantly to extract
| money and information from me like a fucking vampire
|
| (and i guess, not having used this yet, this also speaks to valve
| being one of the last companies that i have any trust in to be
| capable of making a business decision that makes them less money
| in the short run in order to deliver a better product)
| keyringlight wrote:
| An ongoing 'background noise' concern I've had for a while is
| how PC gaming seems to be centralizing around steam. There's
| reasons why that happened, but it'd be real nice if
| 'infrastructure' was able to decouple from their store. It
| feels like practically requiring steam for PC gaming on windows
| and certainly on linux isn't a mile away from requiring MS
| windows, is it much freedom to pick which Seattle based company
| you run software from?
| daedrdev wrote:
| There are plenty of competing stores, they just aren't good.
| I require a game to be on steam because I like the store and
| features, but many games are also sold elsewhere.
| thot_experiment wrote:
| I don't think there's NO reason to be concerned, but I think
| it's pretty different considering the decades of history of
| how Valve acts vs how M$FT acts. Also, many games available
| on Steam are DRM free or available from other sources and
| Proton itself is open source.
|
| Valve is also not publicly traded and they have a succession
| plan of some sort in the event that gaben kicks it, I can
| only assume whatever he's come up with is sound, he's done a
| great job of running the place so far.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| > There's reasons why that happened
|
| Steam's near-monopoly was earned by simply being the best
| store. Other stores like Epic don't even include _basic_
| features like a shopping cart to buy multiple games at once.
|
| I could go on and on about why Steam is so much better than
| any other store, but this isn't the place.
|
| That said, I can understand being nervous. Steam is great
| because it's privately owned and GabeN is happy with the
| money he makes from it and doesn't feel the need to
| enshittify it in order to get more money. But eventually he
| will die or retire, and someone else will be given control.
| Supposedly, he's already vetted some people to take the job,
| but what's to say they weren't merely playing the part and
| will take it public as soon as they can?
| ZeWaka wrote:
| Epic actually got a shopping cart last year. Still has
| terrible UX, however.
| fngjdflmdflg wrote:
| The built in Steam DRM is very weak. Of course that can
| change at any time, but at least the current catalog of Steam
| DRM-only games are not really tied down to steam except via
| law/licensing.
| badsectoracula wrote:
| FWIW 95% of the games i play on my Linux are from other
| stores than Steam: GOG, Zoom Platform (not related to the
| Zoom telething) and itch.io, all of which are DRM-free
| stores. The Steam games i buy are mainly from small indie
| devs that do not have nor plan to have releases outside of
| Steam.
|
| To play games i use UMU Launcher which is basically Proton
| minus Steam (or Wine plus DXVK, etc, depending on how you
| look it at). I use the "raw" UMU Launcher with its own
| command-line utility, though it can be used as part of Lutris
| for a GUI-based experience.
| engeljohnb wrote:
| Valve earned a lot of goodwill from me when I set up my docked
| steam deck as my main media player & gaming device. It required
| me to do a lot of little hacks. I was doing stuff the device
| wasn't meant to do, but it never put up road blocks just
| because I wasn't allowed to do it. Not like when I want to do
| simple things on my wife's macbook.
| Lapra wrote:
| Steam is a service that's been running for >20 years and
| somehow hasn't been enshittified (although, I suppose when it
| first appeared it was seen as enshittification). It's worth
| celebrating, to be honest.
| ranger207 wrote:
| A couple weeks ago Amazon said something about "we were trying
| to compete with Steam and even with all our resources nobody
| noticed" and that made me realize something: ideally, companies
| with similar products and services compete on features and
| cost, but nowadays the big tech providers compete more on lock
| in than anything else. But in the market of video game retail
| stores the competition _is_ on features and price, because
| Steam competes on those terms (ref gaben's famous quote "piracy
| is a service problem"; they're even competing and succeeding
| against free products)
| PeaceTed wrote:
| I definitely didn't notice, I had no idea they were trying
| anything like that.
| butlike wrote:
| Plot twist, Valve AI will syphon all your user metrics into
| Valve's new model. J/k and all joking aside, I feel the same
| way. Feels like a love letter to gamers
| happosai wrote:
| Valve being the only company in 2025 launching something that
| isn't a AI glowing AI button.
|
| Coincidentally also the only launch in 2025 people appear
| genuinely excited about.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| The Steam Deck has been my dream computer for this reason. It
| just works, literally all of the hardware is 100% supported on
| linux. And it's also not locked down in any way. You are
| completely free to install anything you want. I'm just so glad
| at least one tech company has the resources and will to create
| something that is a fully polished consumer ready product which
| also isn't completely restricted.
| kreco wrote:
| I just need more RAM. 16GB is unfortunately not enough for me.
|
| With some luck it would be easy to upgrade ourselves.
| ark4n wrote:
| One more nail in the coffin of the xbox hardware business. Ouch.
| franczesko wrote:
| Unless MS opens up Xboxes for actual gamers (which won't
| happen). Pity, as Series X is very capable
| TheCoreh wrote:
| Very weird USB-C port placement choices...
|
| - 2 USB3-A on the front
|
| - 2 USB2-A on the back
|
| - 1 USB-C on the back
|
| If you want to plug an external USB hard drive or SSD at full
| speed, you'll need to plug it at the front? Or use up the only
| USB-C port...
|
| I suspect most joysticks sold today come with a USB-C to USB-C
| cable, so if you want to charge your controller you either need
| to plug on the back, use an adapter, or get a USB-A to USB-C
| cable?
|
| Also the single USB-C port isn't Thunderbolt/USB4, and they're
| only including gigabit ethernet, which is disappointing but
| perhaps understandable if they're trying to keep it at a low
| price.
| stetrain wrote:
| Most gaming peripherals still seem to use USB-A on the computer
| end for cables and dongles.
|
| Current Xbox and PS5 controllers charge with a USB-C port on
| the controller end but a USB-A port where the plug into the
| console.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| For controllers you can use any cable you want. The Xbox
| controller will charge just fine on a C-C cable. I don't
| think they should have gone all in on USB-C like laptops
| have, but there should have been more than one USB-C and one
| should have been on the front. Pretty much the only thing you
| need USB-A for these days is mice/keyboard with non removable
| cables. Which are becoming increasingly rare.
| stetrain wrote:
| Of course you can swap cables or adapt. I was taking about
| the cables these devices come with.
|
| I'm all about the USB-C lifestyle but PC gaming peripherals
| are still pretty dominated by USB-A.
| coopierez wrote:
| The slim PS5 uses USB-C on both ends.
| mxfh wrote:
| Because think they need to be backward compatible with decade
| old peripheral controllers. People tend to get grumpy about
| this. Yet nobody flinched when XBox ditched KinectV2 with
| Series S/X.
|
| For PC's people are used to adapters. And USB-C is superior
| in every way.
|
| A self declared general compute device should have a least
| two USB-C outs that can drive displays.
|
| For 2026 (12 years into USB-C spec) I would expect a minimum
| of 2 3.2 capable fully wired USB-C ports.
|
| Even better something newer that could do near 40GBpS or
| better. Like USB Gen 3x2
|
| (Written on usb keyboard connected to 4k monitor that also
| charges the MBP it's plugged in)
| ortusdux wrote:
| Could it be a synergy with the Steam Frame's dual band wireless
| dongle? I'm guessing they would really want users to plug that
| into the front of the device.
| MomsAVoxell wrote:
| I suspect it'll be like the Mac mini situation, and the after-
| market USB hubs that fit the form factor will expand rapidly ..
| 0x457 wrote:
| It would be a case if it had I/O like Mac mini. Like if it
| had TB3/TB4/USB4 somewhere, it doesn't.
| dmix wrote:
| most of the usecase is going to be keyboard, mouse, and
| bluetooth headset dongles. All three of mine attached to my
| Steam Deck dock are USB-A.
|
| although I own a bunch of those usb-a->c attachments you plug
| on the end, so it wouldnt make much difference
| vel0city wrote:
| > bluetooth headset dongles
|
| I imagine this has decent Bluetooth support out of the box
| even if not mentioned? Its hard to find a WiFi chipset these
| days that _doesn 't_ have some kind of Bluetooth support.
|
| Maybe _proprietary_ headset dongles, but if its just
| bluetooth its probably not needed.
| dmix wrote:
| Correct, proprietary*. Fancier gaming headsets often come
| with dongles.
| rtkwe wrote:
| You'd be wrong C to A is still pretty standard for controllers
| in my experience.
|
| As for gigabit fewer and fewer people have ethernet routed to
| their office/TV area much less >1gig networking to take
| advantage of anything better than a 1 gig.
| tagyro wrote:
| mmm ...let's agree to disagree
|
| I wired my whole place with 10Gb - couldn't do it in the wall
| (as in, hidden) so I have flat cables around the door frame
| and wall corners. I was willing to accept the cables, just to
| get 10Gb.
|
| And, IMHO, it's worth it.
| rtkwe wrote:
| Not sure what we're disagreeing about, I'm not saying it's
| not a useful thing to have just that most people don't have
| it and don't intend to have it so it's not a useful spec
| bump for Valve to spend money on.
|
| I'm personally planning on going through the pain to get
| ethernet run (luckily I have both a basement and an attic
| so it should be fairly easy) in my house and if I ever
| build new there will be whatever is the best standard at
| the time in the walls (and maybe some dark fiber but I'm
| less sure on that) but I also know I'm a vast minority of
| users at the same time. I'm also in a pretty big minority
| having a >1 gig symmetrical pipe into my house to make a 10
| gig connection to my devices actually worth while.
| tagyro wrote:
| I must have misunderstood - I prefer ethernet over wifi
| and I took your comment as more favourable towards wifi -
| in that case, my bad ^^
| rtkwe wrote:
| My setup is far from my ideal one so I'm on wifi for a
| lot of things but I was just pointing out the business
| reasons they probably went with the 1 gig port, there's
| just not that many people who are looking for or could
| take advantage of a 1 gig port.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| You could probably connect a 10gbit usb adapter to the
| USB-C port on this thing for this use case.
| iso1631 wrote:
| Personally I'd never go for 10g copper, just run some fibre
| back to your cupboard.
|
| For APs sure, do copper for POE, but not for computers. I
| doubt APs will need >1G in practical places for the next
| decade, and I don't think 10g does poe anyway (maybe 2.5g
| does)
| mrguyorama wrote:
| The steam controller also revealed has a USB-C, as does
| Hori's official steam controller.
|
| However, you can charge it from things that aren't USB ports.
| Charging bricks are cheap and most people have one for their
| phone now, except some unfortunate old iPhone users
| rtkwe wrote:
| Yes but the cord it comes with will likely be a C to A
| cable. A lot of controllers have come with USB-C ports on
| them now but ship with C to A cables. Microsoft, Sony,
| 8Bitdo; all controllers I've gotten that have a C port but
| came with the usb-a for the PC/charger end.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| I agree that gigabit Ethernet is adequate for the type of
| product this is. But I do find it funny that the Wifi chip on
| this is very likely capable of 2Gbit. We somehow entered a
| world where WiFi is typically faster than Ethernet.
| tempest_ wrote:
| What do you mean some how?
|
| Most people can't or wont retrofit their homes with wired
| networking. Those that did in the last couple decades
| likely used cat5/e.
|
| The demand in the consumer space definitely favours
| advances in wifi.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| For pretty much all computing history wired has been
| faster than wireless. And it seems reasonable that high
| speed wired should be simpler and easier than wireless.
| It's only just in the last few years the speed of wifi in
| devices has overtaken wired.
|
| It almost seems silly to even include a wired port when
| the wifi chip is faster.
| tempest_ wrote:
| Wired networking is faster than wireless, just not in the
| consumer space.
|
| Most data center networking is 10s of gigabits on the
| lower end. People are throwing out 10/40gb hardware at
| this point. There just isnt any pressure in the consumer
| space. Most people don't even have 1gb internet
| connection and that is where they access most of their
| data.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| It always has been faster in the consumer space too. It's
| really only just now with MIMO and 160Mhz wifi bands that
| wifi is faster on most devices than ethernet.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Cat 5e is rated for 2.5 Gbps at the full 100 m.
| Practically, I've not gotten any frame errors on a 30 m
| Cat 5e link up for 100 days @ 10 Gbps - but 2.5G is where
| the cheap consumer products are anyways.
|
| Wi-Fi for gaming is usually plenty fine though,
| especially if you're not in a very dense area.
| terribleperson wrote:
| I feel like part of the problem with going beyond gigabit
| Ethernet is that copper beyond 1 gigabit is expensive with
| limited adoption. SFP+ fiber is superior and not even
| expensive any more, but there's no consumer adoption.
| preston4tw wrote:
| Valve / Steam presumably has good data on what controllers and
| peripherals people are using, so I'd imagine their port choices
| are based around that. Here's a June 2024 post talking about
| Steam Input and controller market share:
| https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail...
| . At the time of the post they say "59% of sessions are using
| Xbox controllers, 26% are using PlayStation controllers, 10%
| are on Steam Decks"
| ivanjermakov wrote:
| Steam input controller says nothing about the interface being
| used (USB A vs USB C). A single USB C (with DP support, I
| hope) port in 2026 sounds like a bad design.
| senbrow wrote:
| Almost everyone is using these controllers wirelessly if I
| had to hazard a guess.
|
| The USB interface is used for initial pairing and charging,
| in which case the port location doesn't matter nearly as
| much.
| jhasse wrote:
| Yes wirelessly via an USB dongle.
| yencabulator wrote:
| Steam Machine has a built-in antenna for Valve
| controllers.
| pseudosavant wrote:
| People know that USB hubs exist and are inexpensive right?
| TiredOfLife wrote:
| It's an old semi-custom semi-discontinued laptop soc.
| viraptor wrote:
| What do you expect to do with the steam machine that will take
| more than a gigabit? I mean, it's cool when things are faster,
| but if you can saturate the link, downloads are still
| bottlenecked by the drives. And even 4k streaming is under
| 100Mbit normally.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| > And even 4k streaming is under 100Mbit normally
|
| Are you talking "4k streaming" as the current streaming
| providers do it, with trash bitrate, or "4k streaming" as you
| would do it if you had ripped your own blu-ray disks and you
| want to stream it from a NAS somewhere else in your house to
| your living room?
| viraptor wrote:
| The extreme high quality blurays are going up to 144Mbps or
| so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_HD_Blu-ray Still
| nowhere near a gigabit.
| shdjhdfh wrote:
| The highest bitrate UHD Blu-ray supports is 144mbit/s:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_HD_Blu-ray. A one
| gigabit NIC is not even close to the biggest compromise on
| this system.
| pvillano wrote:
| "the average bitrate for a 4K Blu-ray DVD can range between
| 48Mbps to 75Mbps. Some discs can also carry around 100Mbps
| or even 128Mbps, but these are more rare."
|
| https://www.tomsguide.com/tvs/forget-streaming-services-
| here...
| Jnr wrote:
| Even on the high seas the large Blu-ray releases require
| only about 40-50Mbit, maybe you can get even larger
| releases (requiring ~100Mbit for streaming) but then a
| single movie would take up 100GB+ of space and it is such
| an overkill, no one really needs it.
| daveoc64 wrote:
| I can download at approximately 2.5 Gbps from Steam on my PC.
|
| I think not having a 2.5 gigabit port at least is a poor
| choice.
| risho wrote:
| there is almost no one who has multigigabit internet and
| even for people that do, you spend significantly less than
| 1 percent of your time on that device downloading. its a
| complete non issue. this device is a midrange at best pc,
| so having a gigabit connection is exactly where it should
| be. if you want to have the best of the best build a pc.
| fractalcounty wrote:
| That's an exaggeration. Affordable multi-gigabit fiber is
| widely available in plenty of metropolitan areas in the
| US and Europe and mid-range motherboards have included
| 2.5 GbE for years now and the NICs themselves are dirt
| cheap. I don't think it's irrational to be disappointed.
| shadowpho wrote:
| >Affordable multi-gigabit fiber is widely available in
| plenty of metropolitan areas in the US
|
| Press X to doubt, isn't a large part of country under
| Comcast (aka crappy monopolistic cable)?
| AgentME wrote:
| I have >1 gbps service from them.
| clifflocked wrote:
| This is not true, at least around where I live. Gigabit
| ethernet(which is gigabit for only the downloads, and <50
| mbps for upload) is 110$ per month. Comcast is the only
| internet service provider who offers speeds over 50 mbps.
| So I make due. If I want to download a 40gb game, I take
| a break. I read a book, or eat dinner. It works itself
| out, and I can play my game.
| viraptor wrote:
| So you can theoretically download an AAA title like the new
| kingdom come at 84GB in just under 5 minutes instead of 11
| min. That's cool and all, but does it actually matter? I
| mean, with games of those sizes you're going to spend
| hundreds of hours in the game most likely. It's an
| extremely first world problem that takes minutes, maybe
| once a month.
| fractalcounty wrote:
| It's more so the fact that 2.5 GbE NICs are really cheap
| and already fairly common in consumer devices. And game
| downloads aren't the only use case, file transfers could
| benefit from the extra headroom
| pseudosavant wrote:
| A USB 2.5Gb adapter costs $15 on Amazon.
| TheCoreh wrote:
| Games are super large nowadays. IIRC Steam uses P2P for the
| update downloads, so you should be able to saturate whatever
| link you have, and the SSD should be substantially faster
| than 1Gbps. So anyone that has a > 1Gbps internet connection
| should benefit from something higher than Gigabit.
| ericd wrote:
| How are downloads bottlenecked by drives? A normal nvme drive
| does >20 gbit.
| monocasa wrote:
| A lot of devices that you commonly plug and unplug like flash
| drives and passkeys still make sense as USB-A for a lot of
| people because of the specifics of the USB spec.
|
| C to A converters for devices are technically verboten since
| they would allow an enduser to make a A to A cable, which can
| fry hosts if you plug them into eachother if they don't support
| USB OTG. You can lose certification if you try to ship a device
| with a C to A converter.
|
| Because of that, USB-A devices with an optional A to C
| converter (or neater devices that have both plugs on them
| natively) are what makes a lot of sense for a lot of people for
| the kinds of devices that live on a key chain. So it makes
| sense for that to be the default on the front of a desktop,
| IMO.
| 0x457 wrote:
| Most controller/headphone dongles come with USB-A, so 2.0 in
| the back makes sense. Radio for new steam controller is
| integrated.
|
| I have a Y-splitter for my PS5 controllers and if I didn't, I
| would have had some sort of controller dock. I assume I would
| do the same for this. Either way, TV is too far from my couch
| for a cable, so I wanted to keep playing and charging I'd use a
| powerbank from my coffee table.
|
| Gigabit Ethernet...that's sad, I'd take 2.5G, so I can better
| stream my legally ripped Blu-rays. I assume most people don't
| care because they would use Wi-Fi or their switch only goes to
| 1G. Better than JBL making android TV sound bar with 100mpbs.
|
| I think it purposely designed, so you don't try to build a NAS
| on it.
| rtpg wrote:
| > I suspect most joysticks sold today come with a USB-C to
| USB-C cable
|
| while things can be charged with USB-C cables, the only thing
| I've ever received A C-to-C cable is... a USB-C wall charger.
| Granted I haven't gotten a USB-C iPhhone yet and I gotta
| imagine that one is C-to-C.
|
| Generally lots of pack-in cables I've seen in the wild for
| charging devices continue to be USB-A-to-C. Switch 2 ports are
| USB-A, PS5 front port is USB-A... we're still getting there.
| JMiao wrote:
| I think the decision of usb2-a at the rear is for wireless
| keyboard and mouse adapters. Those ones can behave abnormally
| on usb3-a, plus it's nice to have those ugly adapters out of
| sight.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Also just old wired mice and keyboards. The desktop use
| scenarios. If you use both ports for those at back. Any
| temporary faster devices make more sense at front.
| extraduder_ire wrote:
| Adapting A ports to C is much more convenient than going the
| other way. I have a whole sack of passive A to C dongles that
| stick out less than 1cm from the port.
| lynnharry wrote:
| The console is on the TV side and I usually just charge my
| controllers on the sofa side. That way I can charge and play at
| the same time if I want to.
| terribleperson wrote:
| You can replace the internal ssd with an off-the-shelf ssd and
| it also has SD card support, so there should be less need for
| external SSDs.
|
| Gigabit Ethernet is definitely a bummer when I'm close to
| having fiber all the way to my PC.
| pseudosavant wrote:
| Real question, what would >1 gigabit Ethernet or Thunderbolt do
| for you in a low/mid-range gaming PC?
| KeplerBoy wrote:
| With thunderbolt you could connect an egpu. This machine
| won't age terribly well with it's limited GPU capabilities.
| HexPhantom wrote:
| The lack of USB-C on the front is especially odd in 2025
| jerojero wrote:
| The steam machine has a bespoke wireless connector for the (new
| steam) controller so it doesn't pollute the Bluetooth network
| and cause lag.
|
| Yes, the controller is charged through usb-c, but you can just
| use any charger around to charge that. I mean, the battery
| should last for 30+ hours so you only need to charge it on a
| weekly or biweekly basis with heavy usage.
| hebejebelus wrote:
| Very interesting! The one killer issue that jumps to mind is
| anti-cheat. I switched away from gaming on Linux via Proton to
| gaming on Windows because Battlefield 6's anti-cheat won't work
| under Proton. Many games are like this, particularly some of the
| most popular (Rainbow 6 Siege for instance). And BF6 made this
| decision only recently despite the growing number of Steam Deck
| players (and other players on linux - in fairness I don't think
| there would have been that many BF6 players on a handheld).
|
| Edit: I specifically use a gaming-only PC. The hardware is used
| for nothing else. Hence, discussions of rootkits don't really
| bother me personally much and on balance I'd really rather see
| fewer cheaters in my games. I think it would be the same with any
| of these machines - anything Steam-branded is likely to be a 99%
| gaming machine and their users will only care that their games
| work, not about the mechanisms of the anti-cheat software.
| hananova wrote:
| All Valve has to do is say "Your software cannot deliberately
| exclude linux support including kernel anti-cheat to be listed
| on Steam." And that would be that, the few devs big enough to
| make it on their own would leave, and everyone else would
| adapt.
| pityJuke wrote:
| Worth noting: Valve's own first party tournaments for their
| own game require kernel level anti-cheat (from a third party
| vendor). Valve themselves have given up on allowing players
| in their own title play competitively in a Valve sponsored
| event with a kernel level anti-cheat. I can't imagine they'd
| ever be this brash.
|
| There is no adapting without a proper solution for securing
| game integrity.
| wiredpancake wrote:
| You clearly are very misinformed on how Valve operates and
| runs the competitive CS2 environment.
|
| Valve does not require a Kernel Level Anti-Cheat for "first
| party" tournaments. It is not stipulated anywhere in the
| Major Rulebook: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/counter-
| strike_rules_and_re...
|
| The reason third-party anti-cheats are commonplace at these
| events is because most tournaments opt to use Faceit or
| similar for game scheduling. This was the case before VRS
| (with RMRs) and the TO could choose an anti-cheat of their
| choosing. This always ended up being Faceit AC or whatever
| platform the matches are scheduled via (For example, PGL
| used Challenger Mode, which used Akros Anti-Cheat). ESL of
| course uses Faceit because (ESL Faceit Group).
|
| You do not understand how Majors are run. It is very hands
| off from Valve. Only recently, with the introduction of VRS
| has Valve started controlling and implementing dedicated
| rules into the ecosystem for TOs.
| pityJuke wrote:
| > The reason third-party anti-cheats are commonplace at
| these events is because most tournaments opt to use
| Faceit or similar for game scheduling. This was the case
| before VRS (with RMRs) and the TO could choose an anti-
| cheat of their choosing. This always ended up being
| Faceit AC or whatever platform the matches are scheduled
| via (For example, PGL used Challenger Mode, which used
| Akros Anti-Cheat). ESL of course uses Faceit because (ESL
| Faceit Group).
|
| No it isn't. They're not using it by happenstance,
| because it is a feature of the platform, they're using it
| because it would not be competitively viable without it.
| PGL caught major flak for using Akros [0] because the
| tool was not good enough at the time to handle a Major
| qualifier. Just because something is not specified in the
| rulebook does not mean it is not de facto. Not a single
| Valve-sponsored major has ever lacked a third-party
| kernel anti-cheats, from the qualifiers (when they
| existed), to the VRS eligible events.
|
| Yes, I am simplifying for the audience by calling them
| first-party. They're technically all contracted events on
| a tender process [1] (well, even TI is contracted out to
| PGL as of late).
|
| The point still stands: events on Counter-Strike, with
| sponsored by Valve and with tight in-game integrations in
| the form of stickers, blog posts[2], and other
| advertisements, all rely critically on kernel-level anti-
| cheat for game integrity purposes.
|
| Or to put it more succinctly: there is no viable pathway
| for a player to get their autograph into Counter-Strike 2
| playing on Linux.
|
| [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/19
| 499bu/ak...
|
| [1]: https://www.hltv.org/news/40764/valve-sets-start-of-
| march-as...
|
| [2]: Today's blog post for the Starladder Budapest Major:
| https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/730/view/57827633
| 307...
| Goronmon wrote:
| Is there an feasible alternative to "kernel anti-cheat"
| available on Linux?
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| There isn't.
|
| When it comes to anti-cheat on Linux, it's basically an
| elephant in the room that nobody wants to address.
|
| Anti-cheat on Linux would need root access to have _any_
| effectiveness. Alternatively, you 'd need to be running a
| custom kernel with anti-cheat built into it.
|
| This is the part of the conversation where someone says
| anti-cheat needs to be server-side, but that's an
| incredibly naive and poorly thought out idea. You can't
| prevent aim-bots server-side. You can't even _detect_ aim-
| bots server-side. At best, you could come up with
| heuristics to determine if someone 's possibly cheating,
| but you'd probably have a very hard time distinguishing
| between a cheater and a highly skilled player.
|
| Something I think the anti-anti-cheat people fail to
| recognize is that _cheaters don 't care about their cheats
| requiring root/admin_, which makes it _trivial_ to evade
| anti-cheat that only runs with user-level permissions.
|
| When it comes to cheating in games, there are two options:
|
| 1. Anti-cheat runs as admin/root/rootkit/SYSTEM/etc.
|
| 2. The games you play have tons of cheaters.
|
| You can't have it both ways: No cheaters and anti-cheat
| runs with user-level permissions.
| likeclockwork wrote:
| I'm not letting a game company have root on my PC. How
| does that kind of exposure for something as frivolous as
| gaming even make sense?
| 0x457 wrote:
| That's how gaming on windows work. You're a minority with
| that opinion.
| paxys wrote:
| Something that is "frivolous" to you is a passion or even
| a profession for others. Competitive gaming is a massive
| market worldwide, and it wouldn't exist without the
| ability to enforce a level playing field. Not everything
| has to be a holy FOSS war.
| likeclockwork wrote:
| "holy FOSS war"?
|
| Why not have a commissar sit behind every gamer to make
| sure they're not cheating?
|
| That's a startling degree of access to give to these
| people for access to cosmetic micro-transactions.
|
| But, I guess if all your friends are snorting coke in an
| alley, FOMO will have you right there with them.
| Brybry wrote:
| I don't fully agree with the 1 and 2 dichotomy. For
| example, before matchmaking-based games became so popular
| a lot of our competitive games were on dedicated servers.
|
| On dedicated servers we had a self-policing community
| with a smaller pool of more regular players and cheaters
| were less of an issue. Sure, some innocents got banned
| and less blatant cheaters slipped through but the main
| issue of cheaters is when they destroy fun for everyone
| else.
|
| So, for example, with the modern matchmaking systems they
| could do person verification instead of machine
| verification. Such as how some South Korean games require
| a resident registration number to play.
|
| Then when people get banned (or probably better,
| shadowbanned/low priority queued) by player reports or
| weaker anti-cheat they can't easily ban evade. But of
| course then there is the issue of incentivizing identity
| theft.
|
| And I don't think giving a gaming company my PII is any
| better than giving them root on my machine. But that
| seems more like an implementation issue.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| Except most anti-cheats started on dedicated servers
| because it turns out most people are not interested in
| policing other players.
|
| Punkbuster was developed for Team Fortress Classic, even
| getting officially added to Quake 3 Arena. BattleEye for
| Battlefield games. EasyAntiCheat for Counter-Strike. I
| even remember Starcraft 1 ICCUP 3rd party servers having
| an anti-cheat they called 'anti-hack'.
|
| You can still see this today with modern dedicated
| servers in CS2: Face-It and ESEA have additional anti-
| cheat, not less. Even modded 3rd party server FiveM for
| GTAV has their own anti-cheat called adhesive.
| Brybry wrote:
| I would argue a lot of the early anti-cheat was just as
| much about giving admins and communities better tools to
| police themselves as it was about automated cheat
| detection.
|
| Like here's 2006 Punkbuster for Battlefield 2 (BEye might
| have been made for BF:V but Punkbuster was what I
| remember being used by servers). [1]
|
| It automatically kicked on cheat detection but it didn't
| ban. It provided logs for admins to use for bans. It
| provided a way for admins to give community players the
| power to kick. It provided a player GUID based on CD key.
| It provided an online identity verification/registration
| system (though I don't remember anyone using this). It
| let admins take screenshots of players' screens.
|
| [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20060515160425/http://www
| .evenba...
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| > So, for example, with the modern matchmaking systems
| they could do person verification instead of machine
| verification. Such as how some South Korean games require
| a resident registration number to play.
|
| If you think the hate for anti-cheat is bad, just wait
| until you see the hate for identity verification.
|
| I'm actually rather blown away that you would even
| suggest it.
| vel0city wrote:
| > For example, before matchmaking-based games became so
| popular a lot of our competitive games were on dedicated
| servers.
|
| I still had a lot of problems with cheaters during this
| time. And when the admins aren't on you're still then at
| the whims of cheaters until you go find some other
| playground to play in.
|
| And then on top of that you have the challenge of
| actually finding good servers to go join a game with
| similarly skilled players, especially when trying to play
| with a group of friends together. Trying to get all your
| friends on to the same team just for the server to auto-
| balance you again because the server has no concept of
| parties sucked. Finding a good server with the right mods
| or maps you're looking for, trying to join right when a
| round started, etc was always quite a mess.
|
| Matchmaking services have a lot of _extremely_ desirable
| features for a lot of gamers.
| conor- wrote:
| Rootkit anti-cheats can still often be bypassed using DMA
| and external hardware cheats, which are becoming much
| cheaper and increasingly common. There's still cheaters
| in Valorant and in Cs2 on faceit, both of which have
| extremely intrusive ACs that only run on Windows.
|
| At the level of privilege you're granting to play a video
| game, you'd need to have a dedicated gaming PC that is
| isolated from the rest of your home network, lest that
| another crowdstrike level issue takes place from a bad
| update to the ring 0 code these systems are running
| polski-g wrote:
| But isn't all client-side anti-cheat bypassable by doing
| image recognition on the rendered image? (either remote
| desktop or a hardware-based display cable proxy)
| Yokolos wrote:
| Modern cheats are far more advanced than this. Using a
| DMA cheat, you basically just read the game's memory from
| a different computer and there's no way for the game to
| know unless the PCI device ID is known:
| https://intl.anticheatexpert.com/resource-
| center/content-68....
| bangaladore wrote:
| DMA is "easy" to patch. No reason to allow a device to
| have arbitrary memory access. Just require use of IOMMU.
|
| FaceIT essentially has countered most modern cheats
| including those using DMA.
| https://www.faceit.com/en/news/faceit-rollout-of-tpm-
| secure-...
|
| Nowadays if memory access is needed, you are looking at
| having to find a way to load a custom BIOS or UEFI module
| in a way that doesn't mess with secure boot. Even then,
| certain anti-cheats use frequently firing interrupts to
| find any unknown code executing on any system threads.
| bangaladore wrote:
| Yes. Using another machine, record the screen &
| programmatically move mouse.
|
| At that point you have to look at heuristics (assuming
| the input device is not trivially detectable vs a legit
| one).
|
| However, that can obviously only be used for certain
| types of cheating (e.g. aimbot, trigger bot (shoot when
| crosshair is on person)).
| wnevets wrote:
| the third option is cloud gaming for everyone.
| suddenlybananas wrote:
| 3. write your codebase in a way which is suspicious of
| client data and gives the server much more control
| (easier said than done however)
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| That's just server-side anti-cheat, which I've already
| addressed.
|
| Cheating isn't always about manipulating game state,
| especially in FPSes. There, it's more about manipulating
| input, ie, auto-aim cheats.
| gf000 wrote:
| Even kernel anti-cheat can be defeated, this is a similar
| fight to what captchas have.
|
| I can just have my screen recorded and have a fake input
| signal as my mouse/keyboard.. or just simply hire a pro
| player to play in my name, and it's absolutely impossible
| to detect any of these.
|
| The point is to just make it more expensive to cheat,
| culling out the majority of people who would do so.
| gausswho wrote:
| There's a third path:
|
| 3. No humans in your multiplayer
|
| As someone who grew up amazed at Reaper bot for Quake,
| I'm surprised we don't see a rennaisance of making
| 'multiplayer' fun by more expressive, fallible,
| unpredictable bots. We're in an AI bubble and I don't
| hear of anyone chasing the holy grail of believable 'AI'
| opponents.
|
| This also has the secondary benefit of having your
| multiplayer game remain enjoyable even when people's
| short attention spans move on to the next hot live
| service. Heck this could kill live service games.
|
| Then again, what people get out of multiplayer is, on
| some unspoken and sad level, making some other person
| hurt.
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| There's just nothing like playing against other people.
| It's so dynamic and fun. Especially games like StarCraft.
| AI is just nowhere near as engaging.
| gausswho wrote:
| Cheaters are increasingly sophisticated and hard to
| detect. It leads me to think if we put the effort in, we
| could emerge the same dynamism and fun, maybe even
| moreso.
|
| If we can't fight 'em, join 'em?
| aseipp wrote:
| Today, no. Very simplified but the broad goal of those
| tools is to prevent manipulation and monitoring of the in-
| process state of the game. Consoles and PCs require this to
| varying degrees by requiring a signed boot chain at
| minimum. Consoles require a fully signed chain for every
| program, so you can't deploy a hacking tool anyway; no
| anti-cheat is needed. PCs can run unsigned and signed
| programs -- so instead they require the kernel at minimum
| to be signed & trusted, and then you put the anti-cheat
| system inside it so it cannot be interfered with. If you do
| not do this then there is basically no way to actually
| trust any claim the computer makes about its state. For
| PCs, the problem is you have to basically trust the anti-
| cheat isn't a piece of shit and thus have to trust both
| Microsoft and also random corporations. Also PCs are
| generally insecure anyway at the hardware level due to a
| number of factors, so it only does so much.
|
| You could make a Linux distro with a signed boot chain and
| a kernel anti-cheat, then you'd mostly need to get
| developers on board with trusting that solution. Nobody is
| doing that today, even Valve.
|
| Funny enough, macOS of all things is maybe "best"
| theoretical platform for all this because it does not
| require you to trust anyone beyond Apple. All major macOS
| programs are signed by their developers, so macOS as an OS
| knows exactly where each program came from. macOS can also
| attest that it is running in secure mode, and it can run a
| process at user-mode level such that it can't be interfered
| with by another process. So you could enforce a policy like
| this: if Battlefield6.app is launched, it cannot be
| examined by any other process, but likewise it may run in a
| full sandbox. Next, Battlefield6.app needs to login online,
| so it can ask macOS to provide an attestation saying it is
| running on genuine Apple hardware in secure mode, and then
| it could submit that attestation to EA which can validate
| it as genuine. Then the program launch is trusted. This
| setup requires you to only trust Apple security and that
| macOS is functioning correctly, not EA or whatever nor does
| it require actual anti-cheat mechanisms.
| osn9363739 wrote:
| I wonder what ever happened to all those AI based anti-
| cheat solutions that I heard about. Was that last year
| maybe?
| brian-armstrong wrote:
| The games would just leave Steam. The big publishers want
| their own platforms and launchers anyway.
| vkou wrote:
| That's not the trend that we're observing. As much as
| publishers and developers want to control their sales
| channels, the current trend is for them to move towards
| Steam, not away from it.
|
| The more likely outcome is that developers would segment
| matchmaking into people with kernel-level anti-cheat, and
| people without it. This seems fair to me.
| jsheard wrote:
| Several big publishers _did_ move away from Steam until
| Valve conceded some of their revenue, reducing their cut
| from 30% to 25 /20% at certain revenue thresholds. That
| convinced the publishers to return to Steam, but it
| showed that Valve isn't immune to being flexed on by the
| bigger players.
| conor- wrote:
| The big publishers already have their own launcher and
| platforms and are increasingly moving back onto Steam
| because they see higher PC player counts and sales when
| their games are there
| 59nadir wrote:
| Games can leave Steam, but whenever they do they run into
| the awkward issue that gamers aren't usually coming with
| them, at least not in numbers that justify trying to create
| your own thing.
| Yokolos wrote:
| Yeah, I would hope not. Trying to impose your will on
| suppliers and b2b customers like this is how you get hit with
| an antitrust lawsuit.
| aDyslecticCrow wrote:
| This is a issue of critical mass. With the continued growth of
| steamos, steamdeck, and linux as a game platform, eventually it
| will pull over support.
| sodality2 wrote:
| I have to wonder if it's possible to ever even guarantee
| something that can't be trivially bypassed on Linux -
| Windows, sure, it's possible with DMA, but it's damn hard. On
| Linux you could just compile a spoofed kernel or a DKMS
| module or something.
| kykat wrote:
| Look at android, locked bootloader, no root, se linux, and
| voila
| robotnikman wrote:
| It looks like Valve wants to avoid going down the road of
| an extremely locked down system like that. They even view
| the ability to load alternate OS's as a feature of their
| products.
| lifty wrote:
| They could offer both locked down signed software on top
| of their hardware and allow for bypass when the user
| wants to install their own thing. I prefer by default to
| have locked down signed chain of software bootstrapping
| but I do want to also have the ability to use my own.
| aDyslecticCrow wrote:
| you can make a signed readonly linux installation, and
| restrict your games to it. this would be like "support
| steamos but not linux".
|
| Or deliver the game as a container format, like snap or
| appimage to bypass most of the system.
|
| Or demand the installation of a kernel driver like they do
| on windows.
|
| or just give up on kernel level aticheat since they're been
| breached all the same, just as windows are restricting
| their power too.
|
| easy-anticheat has a linux version. Developers have to
| disable the support intentionally.
| lawlessone wrote:
| is it not possible for someone to have Linux spoof that
| it's Windows to the game?
| Jnr wrote:
| It doesn't have to be bypassed. Those same anti-cheats used
| by many unsupported titles are enabled for some games and
| work fine on Linux. So you just have to give the developers
| some incentive to enable it for their titles. It is a
| choice made by game developers. Currently they don't see a
| market on Linux/Steam OS but if Steam Machines become
| popular, potentially they would be missing a market and
| decide to join in.
| MindSpunk wrote:
| No, they don't work on Linux. They're borderline useless.
| The whole point of client side anti cheat software is to
| prevent players reading the game's memory or messing with
| the game's code. There's no practical way an anti cheat
| can stop someone on Linux because you can just compile a
| custom kernel that bypasses all the protections.
|
| On Windows you can't do this, so you have to go through
| one of the known APIs that anti cheat software monitors
| or find exploits in kernel drivers to get in and poke at
| the game's address space. They also look for known
| vulnerable kernel drivers on boot and block loading the
| game if they find them.
|
| Some anti cheats run on Linux, but they're borderline
| useless and trivial to bypass.
|
| Unfortunately for anti cheat software to ever work on
| Linux would require signed and attested kernels and
| locked down OS software. Something that will never fly in
| the Linux ecosystem.
| graynk wrote:
| I sincerely hope it doesn't happen then. I'd rather have game
| developers come up with a different solution that is not a
| rootkit
| kyoji wrote:
| It's worse than that, BF6's anticheat is kernel level and
| requires the Windows-only version secure boot to be enabled, at
| least on my motherboard. There is no way I'm going to faff
| about with my BIOS when rebooting just to play this game.
| Jnr wrote:
| I don't know how EFI boot works but I am running a gaming PC
| in dual boot and I have both Microsoft and my own personal
| secure boot keys loaded (for linux and grub)
|
| I boot my own signed bootloader (grub) from which I can also
| boot Windows. Windows shows it is in secure boot mode and it
| works fine with BF6 for me.
|
| But I have a feeling this allows users to run some
| bootkit/rootkit and bypass any of those kernel level anti-
| cheats. Maybe I'm wrong and EFI handover to Windows clears
| all the memory, but I somehow doubt it.
| conor- wrote:
| I view it as Valve is doing me a favor by adding friction
| towards me installing a rootkit to play video games.
|
| There's also been numerous userspace ACs that work well and
| also run in userspace (EAC, Battleye, etc.) that have been
| enabled for Linux/Proton users (including by EA with Apex
| Legends at one point). A lot of the support for Linux mostly
| comes down to the developer/publishers not wanting to and not
| because of technical reasons.
| baby wrote:
| on the other hand you can't play any of the older
| battlefields due to cheating (not like "is he cheating?" more
| like blatant "this guy is speedhacking and heashotting
| everyone" cheating that the server could easily detect if
| they cared about it)
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Is that the same Battlefields that removed support for
| private servers ?
| bob1029 wrote:
| Looking at the specs and marketing copy, it sounds to me like
| you could secure boot windows 11 on this machine.
|
| > ... a discrete semi-custom AMD desktop class CPU and GPU.
|
| > Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still
| your PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating
| system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer?
| butlike wrote:
| Do we know what kernel SteamOS uses? Is it built on linux, or
| could it be some sort of kiosk'd mode Windows where this will
| be a non-issue? One could hope but I truly don't know.
| pja wrote:
| SteamOS on the Deck is just a standard (tuned) Linux
| distribution under the hood. It would be very surprising to
| me if Valve shifted to an entirely different OS for the Cube.
| butlike wrote:
| Ahh cool, thanks
| Jnr wrote:
| It is running Valve's immutable fork of Archlinux, you can
| find their source package mirror online.
| butlike wrote:
| Awesome, thanks!
| Klaus23 wrote:
| Perhaps a trusted execution environment based anti-cheat system
| could be possible.
|
| I think Valve said something about working with anti-cheat
| developers to find a solution for the Steam Deck, but nothing
| happened. Perhaps they will do something this time.
|
| With a TEE, you could scan the system or even completely
| isolate your game, preventing even the OS from manipulating it.
| As a last resort, you could simply blacklist the machine if
| cheats are detected.
|
| There would probably still be some cheaters, but the numbers
| would be so low as to not be a problem.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| Maybe the user friction would be too much, but I'd be happy
| for the system to just straight up reboot for games which
| require anti cheat. So while that game is running, the system
| is in a verified state. But once you close the game all of
| your mods and custom drivers can be loaded just fine.
| AceJohnny2 wrote:
| Same. I mainline Destiny2 (well, a bit less these days), and
| Bungie won't support Linux/Steam Deck because they depend on
| BattlEye kernel anti-cheat.
|
| (and yet still have a problem with cheaters, see all the bans
| following the Desert Perpetual raid race)
| Jnr wrote:
| BattleEye is supported on Linux and Steam Deck, Bungie simply
| decided not to enable support for it. https://areweanticheaty
| et.com/?search=battleye&sortOrder=&so...
| davikr wrote:
| I'd have Secure Boot, and then one root for an user-modifiable
| regular Linux installation, and another root that is read-only,
| signed, custom kernel etc.
| morshu9001 wrote:
| Even without anticheat, ProtonDB has a lot of "gold" ratings it
| really shouldn't; the comments explain the real experience. See
| BeamNG and AOE2:DE.
| JBiserkov wrote:
| A bit of topic, but I was wondering how much bigger is the steam
| machine compared to the mac mini m4, since that's what I have and
| is my frame of reference. Obviously comparing apples to oranges
| and only talking about physical volume, not features,
| compatibility, price, personal preferences, etc.
|
| Mac Mini m4: 127 x 127 x 50 mm = 0.8 L
|
| Steam Machine: 156 x 162 x 152 = 3.8 L
|
| That's 4.76 times more volume.
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| It's also about twice the total TDP and more likely to spend
| time running at full bore. Bigger heatsinks and fans means
| quieter operation under load.
| Aurornis wrote:
| The Steam device has a 110W GPU and 30W CPU. The M4 Mac Mini's
| peak power consumption is less than half of that. Even with the
| Apple Silicon efficiency, it can't keep up with high power GPUs
| in graphical loads like gaming.
|
| Mac Mini will throttle itself after sustained full load,
| especially with the GPU engaged.
|
| A Mac Mini will start throttling well before the end of a 30
| minute online gaming match.
|
| A larger volume for better cooling was a good choice for a
| machine designed to run the CPU and GPU at full load for hours.
| PeaceTed wrote:
| In that sense the Mini M4 is targeted more at Desktop than
| gaming. Can do short bursts when needed but cannot run the
| marathon in terms of graphics. Nothing wrong with this, it is
| just a trade off.
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| The Mac Mini M4 is crazy small though. This steam box is still
| really small, even if it is 5x the volume of the Mac Mini M4.
| kgbier wrote:
| For anyone wondering how the Mac Studio compares:
|
| 95 x 197 x 197 mm = 3.7 L
| yencabulator wrote:
| 127 x 127 x 50 mm is likely the size of the cooling fan in the
| Steam Machine. Apples to oranges.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Will it be able to play AAA games with shitty DRM such as
| Battlefield 6?
|
| Not being able to play these huge titles on Linux really sucks!
| constantcrying wrote:
| It is not a DRM problem, you can run many EA games on Linux
| with no problems, it is an anti cheat problem, which can not be
| solved by Valve, it has to be done by EA.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Correct but the customer doesn't care whose fault it is, they
| just want to play the latest games.
| arvinsim wrote:
| Valve making more devices to propogate Steam is a good
| thing. If they achieve critical mass, EA will then be
| pressured to implement a compatible solution.
| constantcrying wrote:
| Sure, it doesn't matter to the customer. But it matters if
| the problem is going to be solved.
|
| Valve can not solve it. The only way it can be solved is if
| game studios create anti cheat software, which are
| effective and can be used within a Linux environment. This
| will only happen if companies see a profit motive to do
| this, which will happen if the market is large enough.
| Razengan wrote:
| Look at it this way: Not having to play those money suckers
| leaves you more time for all the awesome indies out there!
| rvz wrote:
| Well that's one of the big reasons why PC gaming on Windows
| will remain dominant for a very very long time and Linux-
| based PCs for gaming will always remain behind.
|
| Majority of gamers really don't care about indie games.
| (unless they are exceptional)
| nake13 wrote:
| "Over six times the horsepower of Steam Deck" [?] RTX 3060
| Laptop?
| nine_k wrote:
| Arch-based? KDE Plasma? There might happen a real "year of
| desktop Linux", in a way. That is, a Linux desktop that sneaks in
| as a side dish, but maybe gains some non-zero traction, and
| bringing FOSS to more people who are not engineers.
| CuriouslyC wrote:
| AI + Games is the killer app for Linux on the <everything>. You
| can make a beast of a gaming PC that also happens to be a beast
| of a local inference system, and that local inference system
| can manage the system for you, so grandma won't have to worry
| about the shell ever again.
| whalesalad wrote:
| "I'm on the record saying, that maybe Valve will actually save
| the Linux desktop. And it's actually not because I think games
| are important! I don't care, I don't play games. I think some
| people do, so games maybe important. But the really important
| issue is I guarantee you Valve will not make 15 different
| binaries. And I also guarantee you that every single desktop
| distribution will care about Valve binaries." - Linus Torvalds
| in 2014
|
| Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzl1B7nB9Kc&t=310s
| fracus wrote:
| I've been using Linux instead of Windows for over a decade now.
| If Linux exploded in popularity I would be afraid
| enshitification and monetization would kick in super quickly.
| FOSS can't dominate the market. The market won't allow it. They
| will find a way to exploit it. This is just a fear based on
| generalizations. Perhaps it is misguided.
| Jnr wrote:
| SteamOS on Steam Deck has been running Arch-based immutable
| distro since 2022. KDE can be started but by default it runs a
| Big Picture mode of Steam in gamescope.
| haunter wrote:
| "Steam Machine's pricing is comparable to a PC with similar
| specs" [0]
|
| It has to be no more than 800EUR then if it also wants to compete
| against the console market.
|
| Even 800EUR is too much imo because looking at the specs it's
| already not a "future proof" build, more like a previous gen
| gaming laptop
|
| 0, https://www.theverge.com/tech/818111/valve-steam-machine-
| han...
| cheschire wrote:
| thanks for that. The internals photos were what I was really
| wanting to see!
| robotnikman wrote:
| Wow, the heat sink takes up most of the internal space!
| porphyra wrote:
| Having a single big fan cool a massive heatsink (that is
| hopefully very quiet) can legitimately a good reason to get
| this over building a typical SFF PC, which often runs hot and
| loud. It sorta reminds me of the trashcan Mac Pro. I myself
| have a sandwich style case with an RTX 5070 in it which is
| quite loud under load.
| rollcat wrote:
| Yep, look at Mac Studio.
|
| Honestly I'd love to see the trashcan come back, perhaps an
| entirely new design but still paying homage.
| encom wrote:
| Paywalled, and also The Verge.
|
| https://archive.vn/ndOmA
| ivanjermakov wrote:
| What is the controversy?
| tempest_ wrote:
| Unfortunately given the fact that RAM and SSD prices are going
| through the roof coupled with the fact that a CPU like that
| alone will be near 150-200 at retail this thing is going to
| likely cost more.
|
| The console makers have avoided these price increases by mass
| producing the same sku for a while now. If stocks last into
| 2027 they will likely remain the same price. If they don't I
| imagine the console prices might jump a bit too.
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| It is basically a amd 7640u with a 7600m glued on. All
| together and subsidized by the store, there is no reason to
| think this will be more than $600, likely closer to $500.
| rafaelmn wrote:
| 600EUR is top I would pay for this, and even then the HDMI 2.0
| sucks. I get that it's a linux/amd issue with HDMI licensing
| but it still sucks for a media center when most TVs these days
| support 4k/120 VRR.
|
| I really like the controller, I think I'll pass on the device
| and just stream from my PC to TV.
| dbspin wrote:
| Digital foundry have confirmed it supports 4K/120 VRR. It's
| actually beyond the HDMI 2.0 spec, but not listed as 2.1 as
| it misses out on some obscure features of the spec. Doubtful
| you'd get 4K 120p on too many contemporary titles with this
| hardware configuration though.
| black_knight wrote:
| I might be the minority, but I frankly would buy it at 1000EUR
| easily if it meant that the hardware was really good.
| taude wrote:
| Nope, I don't think you're the minority, once people think of
| this as a micro itx build. Power supply integrated. That's
| cool. Will be curious what the actual performance is because
| hard to compare the custom chipsets with what's out there
| now.
| black_knight wrote:
| Yeah, I am seriously considering a small ITX build for my
| living room for gaming on. But this might be an
| alternative!
| taude wrote:
| my thoughts, too.
| taude wrote:
| what kind of specs can we build a mini itx these days? I
| haven't looked into it, but the small form factor is a pretty
| big premium. I'm not sure I could build a ~ Raydon 7600xt micro
| itx build for less than $1K usd? (I haven't really looked,
| though).
|
| For me, I'm looking at this like a nice micro itx build, and
| I'd probably pay up to a grand for it. (pending final specs and
| performance reviews, because it's kind of hard to compare it's
| custom chips on paper.)
| romanovcode wrote:
| Intel i7, 1tb ssd, 32gb ram and 3070 can fit in ITX which
| would be MUCH better performance than the steam box for
| games.
|
| Only downside is you have to install Windows of course.
| rollcat wrote:
| I haven't checked in detail, but I would suppose SteamOS
| isn't far off from running on general-purpose PCs. Else,
| I've heard a lot of good things about Bazzite.
| conorh wrote:
| It is truly amazing how far Proton/Steam OS has come along. I
| recently installed it on some old AMD hardware I had lying
| around, hooked it up to my TV and everything just works - zero
| problems. I look forward to checking out this Steam Machine!
| torginus wrote:
| Cool but I wish it had a single big APU chip like the consoles
| and Strix Halo - and unified memory. PCs are long overdue for
| adopting this change, and the only reason it makes sense to keep
| the separate is to make graphics cards swappable.
|
| Considering how big GPU silicon is, when you have both integrated
| and custom, it'd have made sense to integrate them.
| bigyabai wrote:
| > and unified memory. PCs are long overdue for adopting this
| change
|
| Why? Desktop PCs, especially gaming PCs, have nothing to gain
| and everything to lose by oversubscribing system memory with
| GPU workloads. The memory bus typically isn't fast enough
| anyways, and a modern PCIe x16 can easily handle the bandwidth
| of a gigantic GPU. The only advantage to unifying everything is
| latency, which isn't relevant at any framerate under 1000hz.
|
| > when you have both integrated and custom, it'd have made
| sense to integrate them.
|
| Sometimes, sometimes not. AMD's mobile packaging technology is
| not world-class like Apple and Nvidia's is. Valve had the
| experience with the Steam Deck to make the call if a mobile
| architecture was the right choice, and they decided against it.
|
| Valve doesn't have to make a Mac. This is a gaming device, it's
| designed accordingly.
| torginus wrote:
| All consoles have been using a single integrated chip since
| the last generation. The memory bandwidth a CPU uses is much
| less than GPU. Let's say a CPU does 50 GB/s peak while the
| GPU does 200+
| bigyabai wrote:
| But why is it overdue? It's easy to put the performance
| profile of a console on an SOC, it's impossible to
| integrate many desktop GPUs into the same form factor. Pull
| up a unified benchmark like the OpenCL Geekbench, it makes
| this obvious. The most powerful SOCs, like the M3 Ultra,
| pull over 250w to get worse scores than a 4080 laptop dGPU:
| https://browser.geekbench.com/opencl-benchmarks
|
| How are SOCs going to replace full-fat ATX cards when they
| can't even beat the thermally-throttled version? The SOC
| isn't even more energy-efficient, here.
| eigenspace wrote:
| What they're using here is still mostly off the shelf silicon
| with some tweaks. If they got enough volume, they probably
| could go for an all integrated APU with unified memory that
| could keep the GPU fed, but that'd be a very expensive and new
| thing to develop.
|
| I hope that if this is a success, they'll have the numbers to
| justify a Strix-Halo like APU with a smaller CPU but keeping
| the big GPU for the next generation of the device.
| Plasmoid2000ad wrote:
| I'm thinking they considered this strongly, since that's what
| they did with the steam deck.
|
| We don't know price yet, but if it's like the deck they'll be
| trying to keep it as cheap as possible. The deck supposedly was
| so off-the-shelf that it re-used a design for another AMD
| customer, leftover elements and all -
| https://boilingsteam.com/an-in-depth-look-at-the-steam-deck-...
|
| Unless Valve took a big risky bet, the Steam deck is going to
| be again re-using existing hardware and excess hardware. I'm
| presuming there are leftover unsold Zen 4 and RDNA 3 dies - and
| nothing competitive that AMD could offer from Valves
| perspective, at least when they locked the design some months
| ago.
| dvtkrlbs wrote:
| The problem with those Halo chips are they are really
| expensive. Steam is aiming for the masses so above 1k for this
| device is a no-go.
| mostly_harmless wrote:
| > you can wake your Steam Machine without leaving your couch.
| [using the built in steam controller wireless adapter].
|
| This one simple thing is the only thing that makes my
| SteamDeck+Dock feel like a second class console. So far they only
| claim it's for the Steam Controller, but I'd be great if it
| worked with the handful of 8bitdo or Switch controllers I've been
| using.
| neura wrote:
| Same issue with Switch 2. You can only wake it with a Switch 2
| controller. Nintendo's own Pro Controller for switch, which
| used to wake the Switch just fine, cannot wake the Switch 2.
| Seems like a forced upgrade issue, to me. :(
| sunaookami wrote:
| IIRC it's because the Switch 2 uses Bluetooth LE protocol for
| waking up the console which the Switch 1 does not support (it
| uses a different protocol).
| azdle wrote:
| Waking up the deck works for me with my xbox controller
| connected via bluetooth. Are you using those controllers via BT
| or USB?
|
| Edit: Now that I think about it, this might have been a feature
| added to the OLED model.
| robotnikman wrote:
| Yes, the OLED model has a different Bluetooth controller and
| iirc that's the main reason. Though Valve has been working on
| trying to backport it to the original models as well.
| bogwog wrote:
| I have a 1st gen Steam Deck (256gb), and it has supported wake
| from bluetooth peripherals for a while. I've only tested it
| with a PS5 controller, but it works. [EDIT: btw I use the
| official dock. Idk if it'll work with others]
|
| I use my SteamDeck as a streaming device too, and since my TV
| is connected via HDMI, waking the console also wakes the TV. So
| I can start playing/watching anything by just turning on my PS5
| controller (which is not ideal because the PS5 controller has
| terrible battery life and is often dead when I need it, but
| that's a different issue)
| darkteflon wrote:
| On the other hand, PS5 controller - unlike an Xbox controller
| - gets you gyro control, which makes for a very nice mouse
| experience. I play tons of mouse-only games (e.g.
| Mechabellum) from the couch thanks to the DualSense.
| chocalot wrote:
| I agree. It looks like it's in progress.
|
| Earlier this month SteamOS had a release: "Temporarily re-
| disabled experimental wake-on-bluetooth support for Steam Deck
| LCD while issues with spurious wake-ups are investigated"
|
| https://www.steamdeck.com/en/news
| ZeWaka wrote:
| You can also wake up your steam deck with the steam controller
| 1 :)
|
| This makes me wonder if they're still using the same protocol.
| ymsodev wrote:
| > Who are we to tell you how to use your computer?
|
| What a refreshing thing to hear in 2025... :D
| didibus wrote:
| Hell ya! A new gaming OS, linux based, getting console and
| portable hardware that is well built, it's what I've been waiting
| for, something that gives you a good console UX but lets you play
| PC games.
| dmix wrote:
| I've had my Steam deck plugged into my tv for the last year and
| I sometimes use the Linux desktop (just a menu option and it
| reloads into desktop mode) which has a really nice design is
| already preconfigured for casual linux use.
|
| I'd look up game review youtube videos and search stuff in
| between games from my couch. No complaints.
|
| The only downside to SteamOS being linux is the lack of easy
| mod support. It's either a PIA or not supported.
| buffet_overflow wrote:
| You have to set it up with the Steam client in Desktop Mode,
| but you can add arbitrary programs and executables as non-
| steam games.
|
| As a result, I can open Spotify in the background and have it
| play music while I game, from the primary SteamOS interface.
| energy123 wrote:
| How's the added latency when connecting a controller to the
| steam deck through Bluetooth?
|
| I tried to do something similar to you without a cable
| (controller --bluetooth--> deck --wifi & steam play--> TV)
| but it had ghastly latency, yet I didn't isolate which leg of
| the trip was responsible.
| dmix wrote:
| I use mouse/keyboard primarily and never noticed an issue
| even with bluetooth. I don't play multiplayer so wifi is
| not a factor in latency.
|
| I do have a USB wireless dongle for my xbox controller
| which apparently is faster than bluetooth. I also now use
| wireless dongles for my mouse/keyboard but mostly just for
| ease of use. All 3 USBs are connected via dock.
| LarsDu88 wrote:
| GabeN send me a devkit! I make Rogue Stargun VR
| (roguestargun.com) which should be able to run on standalone
| DavideNL wrote:
| https://mastodon.social/@stroughtonsmith/115538125708522123
| LarsDu88 wrote:
| How do I get a devkit? Both Meta and Pico have sent me free
| dev headsets.
|
| I e-mailed GabeN directly this morning...
| LarsDu88 wrote:
| I emailed him directly, and holy shit GabeN actually forwarded
| the e-mail and I'm now on a waitlist
| butz wrote:
| No external power brick. Instant buy.
| shmerl wrote:
| Is that actually a benefit? I'd say for better cooling, it's
| better to put the brick outside.
| koolala wrote:
| Makes it super portable. Throw this in a bag and use the
| Steam Frame as a monitor.
| microsoftedging wrote:
| It's glorious. The year has finally come. It's nice to feel
| excited about tech sometimes, especially when the company isn't
| completely horrible, and more competition! Great! Microsoft's
| move really, Sony and Nintendo are doing pretty okay!
|
| W shadow drop.
| simlevesque wrote:
| I bet they decided to crash their skin market in part because too
| many people were exploiting the Steam Deck loophole to take the
| skin money out of the system.
|
| Now people will need to give Steam real money to buy their new
| devices.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Really I think it was otherwise. Dropping prices mean that more
| transactions happen on their market place. And them selling
| games or hardware allows them to realise their liabilities as
| my understanding is that money in wallet on Steam is not yet
| revenue.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| Maybe, but I also think it was just a dangerous situation for
| them to be in for no benefit. Teenangers dumping all their
| money in to skins because tiktok "investors" told them to, and
| then trading them on sketchy 3rd party marketplaces both
| exposes them to risk of regulators cracking down, and doesn't
| make them much profit.
| invaliduser wrote:
| Just found about this skin market/casino thing, and also that
| my teenage son purchased a skin for 100EUR, but is still pretty
| excited and happy about it because <<its real value is around
| 700EUR>>. I am still processing this information.
| flakiness wrote:
| I'm still waiting for Steam Deck 2! Come on!
| Narishma wrote:
| They already said there won't be a successor until a
| significantly more powerful and power-efficient SoC than what
| they are currently using is available.
| flakiness wrote:
| Ugh I was about to downvote you but thanks for the tip.
|
| A Snapdragon would be perfect for a handheld. Hope the
| "machine" goes well and they change their mind.
| jadbox wrote:
| When's the preorder?
| drcongo wrote:
| I wonder if AMD have bothered finishing the gfx drivers for this
| before release.
| mystifyingpoi wrote:
| Linus Torvalds was right. Valve will save the Linux desktop.
| metalliqaz wrote:
| ...by emulating WinAPI
| flohofwoe wrote:
| And nothing wrong with that, the classic Win32 API is
| actually quite decent, especially the small subset needed for
| games. And it has the incredible advantage that it doesn't
| change since Microsoft doesn't care about Windows anymore ;)
| Rohansi wrote:
| That's not why it doesn't change.
| sph wrote:
| Heh, who cares. I can play games and my OS doesn't spy on me.
| npteljes wrote:
| The funny thing would be for Wine to then extend the WinAPI,
| and software beginning to use that extension.
| jwrallie wrote:
| Embrace, extend...
| joseda-hg wrote:
| Reverse EEE?
| osn9363739 wrote:
| I thought it was a translation layer? Not emulation right?
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| The original comment by Linus was that Valve would not accept
| the current state of things where to distribute a program on
| Linux you need to create a different package for every single
| distro. Which is true, Steam with Proton has pushed a single
| stable platform where you can publish a single build and it
| works everywhere. In desktop mode of SteamOS everything is
| installed through Flatpak.
| PeaceTed wrote:
| Sometimes you have to walk with the devil to do good deeds.
| happosai wrote:
| There is always Android ABI but kernel developers still think
| android is a calamity rather than biggest Linux success story
| ever...
| petepete wrote:
| By _embracing_ the WinAPI!
| koinedad wrote:
| Been waiting for this
| robotnikman wrote:
| The one with the front panel replaced by an Eink screen really
| looks cool https://platform.theverge.com/wp-
| content/uploads/sites/2/202...
|
| >Valve won't necessarily sell any of those extra panels, but says
| it'll release the CAD files so you can design and 3D print your
| own.
| paxys wrote:
| They haven't mentioned it anywhere, but non-upgradable
| CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD would be a massive deal breaker.
|
| Also why announce it without a price?
| giobox wrote:
| While it's a dealbraker for me too, locking the spec is how
| Valve can make a stable hardware target for devs with the
| "Steam Deck Verified" program, which they've also announced is
| coming to this box. This is one of the main reasons the specs
| for the Deck have remained almost identical since launch as
| well, Valve have said as much in interviews.
|
| I expect to see this and the Deck try to follow locked hardware
| revisions every few years, just like a console, to allow the
| verified program to work effectively.
|
| This product is so not aimed at those of us already building
| our own gaming boxes, but I'm guessing more a way to tempt
| those who have only ever owned gaming consoles into the Steam
| ecosystem.
|
| > https://www.steamdeck.com/en/verified
|
| FWIW some early access previews note the box does have a
| socketed M2 SSD and what looks like upgradable RAM.
| koolala wrote:
| The SSD is upgradable.
| keoneflick wrote:
| I wonder if Steam will finally implement multi-user sign on for
| local multiplayer games (like all true consoles).
|
| It's something that doesn't get headlines, but a real barrier for
| enjoyment for a console-like PC. Hate being stuck with 'guest 1'
| and 'guest 2' or whatever. Many games want each player to
| progress and without true multi sign on, it just doesn't work.
| Hence games dropping local multiplayer on PC.
| awakeasleep wrote:
| Steam would need to reliably pass multiple controller inputs to
| the game before your qualm gets addressed
| sophrosyne42 wrote:
| Valve reports that the Steam Machine will support inputs from
| up to 4 Steam Controllers [1], so presumably they are
| updating SteamInput to handle that.
|
| [1] https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| I'm not sure what you mean ?
|
| We have been using 3-4 controllers on the Steam Deck lately :
| Steam Controller, Xbox One gamepad, Switch 1 Joy Pads
| (together or separate).
|
| There are some quirks with the first time game setup
| sometimes, but we've never noticed any issues after that ?
| InterlooperX wrote:
| I still wonder how Steam generally handles Linux' multi user
| setup.
|
| When I last looked into it, it seemed like Steam gets installed
| into the user's space of the linux user that did the
| installation.
|
| As in, you have two Linux accounts and each would not only have
| to install their own Steam client. They would also have to
| download their own copy of the games they play into their own
| steam library.
|
| And if the game is like 100GB in size that would mean you would
| have to se aside 200GB if both linux accounts would buy this
| game.
|
| I feel like having to muck about with symlinks and stuff just
| to get both steam installations to believe this path is their
| library seems like a bit cumbersome.
|
| Especially since I dont know how steam generally reacts when
| "someone else" aka not them makes changes to that library. I'd
| hate having to "repair" the library everytime I play just
| because my steam detected the changes from my brothers steam to
| that library as suspicious.
|
| Windows does a lot of things wrong. So much that I would love
| to switch but the way it handles two windows accounts with
| their own steam account and one steam installation/library is
| at least working the way i would expect it to.
| timpera wrote:
| I really hope that we'll be able to put Windows on this.
| miguelxpn wrote:
| The landing page says "Who are we to tell you how to use your
| computer?" so I'm assuming you'll be able to do whatever you
| want with it. Similar to the Steam Deck.
| barnabee wrote:
| I hope we can, too. I _really_ hope we don 't.
| mcdow wrote:
| Why does Steam/Valve care so much about Linux? I know as devs we
| all would prefer to use Linux/Unix. But developer experience
| isn't a good business justification.
| Manfred wrote:
| Probably because Steam doesn't want to sell an Xbox and
| Microsoft won't license Windows to be rebranded.
| 0x457 wrote:
| Probably to keep MS from locking down gaming on Windows and
| cutting out Valve as distributor.
|
| Add to that, Windows isn't usable on 10ftUI or really anything
| that is not fully-controlled (think ATMs) or desktop with kb/m.
| jcelerier wrote:
| why wouldn't you use linux when you are shipping your own,
| custom, purpose-built device?
| andrewclunn wrote:
| They don't want Microsoft to be able to use its control of the
| OS to push them out. It's not the Valve needs to control the
| OS, it's that they don't want a company that views them as a
| competitor to have said control. Linux ensures that they have
| protection from that.
| kube-system wrote:
| For starters, they can't really customize Windows for the
| devices they release.
| eigenspace wrote:
| It's because Valve's entire business model is currently reliant
| on Microsoft not being emboldened to try and lock down software
| downloads to only occur through the Microsoft Store.
|
| 15 or so years ago, Microsoft started making moves in that
| direction and Valve immediately started trying to build and
| sell Linux based gaming machines in order to try and protect
| themselves somewhat from Microsoft. Those Linux gaming machines
| (Steam Machines 1.0) were a massive failure because they were
| expensive, and had very very limited game support.
|
| Valve then spent around a decade improving Wine, building
| Proton, and designing the SteamDeck, which was a great success
| for them and is now making lots of people take Linux seriously
| for gaming. Now they're moving up the value chain and trying to
| make Linux the go-to place for PC gaming.
|
| They've still got a big battle ahead of them, but already Linux
| users are around 4% of active Steam users, and the Linux
| experience is rapidly improving. Meanwhile, Microsoft seems to
| be bleeding goodwill, and is actively pissing off a huge amount
| of their Windows audience while simultaneously giving up on
| Xbox, so this is really perfect timing for Valve now.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| The business justification is called commoditizing your
| complement. https://gwern.net/complement is a good article
| about it.
| robotnikman wrote:
| You can basically tailor the OS specifically for the device and
| remove unneeded bloat. Also the threat of Microsoft and Windows
| as mentioned by other users. The introduction of the Microsoft
| Store with Windows 8 basically kicked off this whole move for
| Valve. While it took over a decade of work, its paying great
| dividends now.
| npteljes wrote:
| >I know as devs we all would prefer to use Linux/Unix.
|
| That's not true. In the 2025 SO survey, both Windows is the
| most used OS for developers, for both professional and for
| personal use.
|
| https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2024/technology#1-operating-...
| UK-Al05 wrote:
| Used != Prefer
| npteljes wrote:
| Even for personal use? If devs preferred Linux so much, I'd
| expect them to use it at least in their own time. But, what
| the stats say is that people use Win even more when it
| comes to personal devices, and Linux, not even a tenth of a
| percent. If anything, that looks like that dev _don 't_
| prefer Linux. They use when the employer pushes it onto
| them, but not anywhere else.
| UK-AL wrote:
| The problem is that many games and software still only
| work on windows.
| npteljes wrote:
| Is that why developers don't prefer Linux?
| distances wrote:
| Lots of devs prefer Linux but are forced to used Windows by
| their employers. So both can be true at the same time.
| npteljes wrote:
| The survey accounts for personal use as well. If this was
| the case, I'd expect the personal Linux use be higher than
| the professional use.
| paxys wrote:
| A bit too sparse on details.
|
| - No price
|
| - No indication for whether the CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD are upgradable or
| all soldered together on the board.
|
| - "4K gaming at 60 FPS with FSR" but doesn't mention what kind of
| games it can run at that quality.
|
| - No performance benchmarks, or mention of what the equivalent
| retail CPU/GPU to their custom one is.
|
| At face value this seems like a $500-600 PC, and that's also the
| price it would be able to compete with consoles at.
| haunter wrote:
| 8GB VRAM + 4K + FSR3 is very tough situation. Basically bit
| better than an Xbox Series S but quickly outpaced by midrange
| PCs.
|
| It will all come down to the price.
| paxys wrote:
| Yeah non-upgradable 8GB VRAM would make it a no-go for all
| but the most casual gamers. But then the casual gamers would
| rather buy a PS5 for the same price, so let's see where this
| one fits in.
| whynotminot wrote:
| The size here is actually important too. I think the PS5 is
| monstrously large and ugly. I do not want it in my living
| room.
|
| If this little box is roughly PS5 power and reasonably
| priced (we shall see) then that might hit just right.
| MBCook wrote:
| They already own the PC market. This seems more like a play
| to start to introduce Steam towards more of the console
| market.
|
| And for that, assuming a reasonable price, it looks like a
| nice attempt. Certainly much better than last time.
| haunter wrote:
| Yeah it's confirmed solderd and not-upgradable
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWUxObt1efQ&t=591s
| Kirby64 wrote:
| It's essentially an RX 7600, roughly. It's not quite 'the
| most casual gamer', but it isn't super amazing. But...
| neither is the steam deck, and steam deck flies off the
| shelves.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| Quite a lot of actual casual games, things you'd see in the
| indie or "cosy"/stardew valley-like genre only release on
| PC, or they take years to come to the Switch but nothing
| else. I see a lot of casual gamers getting the Steam Deck
| just because it's has the best selection of casual games.
|
| For casual games even the steam deck can run most of them
| at 4k 60fps
| Jnr wrote:
| As a Steam Deck owner since pre-orders, unless the price is
| extremely high, I am going to get the Steam Machine as
| well. Kids plug the Steam Deck to TV to do couch co-op
| gaming even though the resolution is only 720p. So getting
| a better resolution and performance while still getting
| access to the huge Steam library and non-steam games
| (Minecraft, etc.) is worth it. I don't care about the
| latest AAA titles and FPS shooters, for those I already
| have a desktop PC.
|
| PS5 is too expensive long term and is not usable for
| anything else. And when Steam Machine becomes obsolete,
| I'll probably just use it/gift it as a mini pc/home-server
| to someone in the family.
| energy123 wrote:
| The performance has little to do with the amount of VRAM. The
| VRAM is just a cap on texture resolution.
| mmis1000 wrote:
| They said they route vram/rams though the io die in the gamer
| nexus's video. Wondering if that means GPU will also have
| direct access to ram. So it will not actually be a very big
| problem? Probably slower, but not terribly swapping like
| those 8gb gpu.
| nalekberov wrote:
| It's soldered on the board, Gamers Nexus has already reviewed
| it: https://youtu.be/bWUxObt1efQ?t=591
| mayli wrote:
| Yeah, gemini gives $649 - $699 for BOM, $749+ if they want some
| margin from the hardware. Which is cheaper than most "Gaming
| PC", but still more expensive than Switch/PS5, and lack the
| expandability of PC.
|
| I wish they could sell at $300-$500, that's really going to
| make this a must have for this year.
| keyringlight wrote:
| Using the deck prices seems like a good place to start unless
| they're using the opportunity to change strategy. It's an
| updated SoC, but minus a screen, battery, separate dock,
| built-in controller, and less pressure to pack it in a
| handheld chassis. They mention a built in wireless adapter
| for the controller, so I assume there will be bundles with
| and without a controller.
| mayli wrote:
| I feel the same way, it has to be priced in the range of
| gaming console rather than gaming PC.
| keyringlight wrote:
| If that's the case I think it's a hugely positive thing,
| and has gone away for newly bought hardware for a variety
| of reasons over the past decade. Having a basic PC and
| then upgrading it with a GPU used to be a realistic route
| to a respectable gaming PC, but I think that's largely
| gone away now (partially due to the death of the general
| "home PC" or many being on laptops. There are bargains to
| be had in the used market, but that comes with a lot of
| asterisks.
|
| If they can get this to a large market I think it's great
| value, not just as a console-model PC but because a full
| featured desktop without lockdown is so near. It's a
| reverse of where I've thought MS missed a trick with the
| xbox, add a keyboard and mouse and let users have turn on
| a sandboxed lightweight desktop mode then funnel users to
| get software through their store, which would have been a
| great way to get xbox hardware installed in houses
| (especially the cheap S models) during covid when there
| was a sudden rush to buy PCs for home working that
| previously didn't need it.
|
| This is targeted at the living room, but I'd love to see
| non-gaming uses highlighted and get the equivalent of
| 'deck certified' whether that's linux native or efforts
| into working well under wine.
| KeplerBoy wrote:
| I wish this thing had a PCIe slot. Would be nice if case
| manufacturers sold compatible cases for the motherboard
| so you could build a bit with it. Insert a raid
| controllers and a few HDDs to get started with a homelab
| or add a beefier GPU two years down the line.
| KeplerBoy wrote:
| Gemini is vastly overestimating the cost of the BoM.
| JeremyNT wrote:
| There are some early previews where people ran some actual
| games at it[0].
|
| Here are some of their results:
|
| > _In Cyberpunk 2077, running at 4K, it's a surprisingly stable
| 60fps, albeit with the caveat of that using FSR 3 upscaling on
| Performance mode with Medium quality settings. But, also: basic
| ray tracing, something the Deck can't even think about enabling
| outside of very specific games._
|
| > _The next game I tested, Black Myth: Wukong, is best run with
| its own RT effects switched off. Still, it also averaged around
| 60fps on otherwise similar settings: Performance-level FSR 3
| upscaling to 4K, plus the Medium quality preset. And, in an
| almost unnerving repeat performance, Silent Hill f ran close
| enough to a solid 60fps (with most drops owed to Unreal Engine
| 5's signature stuttering) on the Performance-level graphics
| settings and, once again, FSR 3 running on Performance mode._
|
| [0] https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/hands-on-with-the-new-
| steam...
| andrepd wrote:
| > In Cyberpunk 2077, running at 4K, it's a surprisingly
| stable 60fps, albeit with the caveat of that using FSR 3
| upscaling on Performance mode with Medium quality settings
|
| So it's not running at 4K nor 60fps. I wish people would stop
| calling 1080p upscale through some dogshit filter as "4K"...
| rpmisms wrote:
| I would call it TV 4k, not monitor 4k. FSR looks just fine
| from across the room.
| encom wrote:
| I agree 100%. However, the upscaling _is_ pretty good. You
| can tell it 's not 4K, but it's also considerably better
| than simple bilinear resampling from 1080p.
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| Especially FSR 2 and its subsequent iterations. The
| motion vectors let them basically do TAA on the upscaled
| image.
| ricardobeat wrote:
| Not even an RTX5090 can run Cyberpunk at a consistent
| 4K/60fps without upscaling or frame generation, so it's not
| a realistic bar.
|
| The AI-upscaled image is technically 4K though, looks
| pretty sharp with FSR/DLSS, and also _significantly_ better
| than 1080p or even QHD.
| legitster wrote:
| > No indication for whether the CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD are upgradable
| or all soldered together on the board.
|
| Almost certainly. This is the direction the industry is
| heading, and the perverse unavailability of high-end discrete
| graphics cards is the nail in the coffin.
|
| See also the Framework PC.
| esskay wrote:
| We do have an indication. The RAM and SSD are both
| upgradable. The RAM is SODIMM, and storage is NVME
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| I feel like these are the only things worth upgrading even
| in a desktop too. Unless you are the kind of person who
| buys the new CPU every year, upgrading anything in a
| desktop usually means replacing almost everything.
|
| Every time I've looked at upgrading a part in my PC it's
| been the case where the CPU socket has changed, memory has
| changed to the next number of DDR, etc so it's basically
| just buying a new one of everything but the storage, psu,
| and case.
|
| There are absolutely cases where I've wished I could
| upgrade the storage in devices though.
| krige wrote:
| No, not really. I bought my current motherboard in 2018,
| and it's still more than good enough - runs almost
| everything at max detail 1080p/1440p - after I replaced
| the CPU+GPU 2 years ago.
| a96 wrote:
| The Framework Desktop has unified memory, which is the usual
| excuse.
| jm4 wrote:
| It's basically a more powerful Steam Deck that's connected to a
| TV. The games will be "verified" and the settings pre-tuned for
| ideal performance just like the Steam Deck. They did a good job
| making the most of mediocre hardware in the Deck.
|
| My initial thoughts were that this thing would cost
| considerably more, but I'm looking at the specs and it might
| not be too bad. Maybe it'll start at $499 or $599 and go up
| $749 or $849. I'm guessing SoC and not easily upgraded. It says
| Zen4 so it won't be Strix Point/Halo, but maybe some bastard
| variation with a Zen4 core and newer GPU than the Deck.
| kace91 wrote:
| Consoles frequently get better performance than an equivalent
| pc because companies optimize for that specific hardware.
|
| Frame becoming a mainstream device (compared to any random
| combination of components) might make a difference that way.
| mindcrash wrote:
| > "No indication for whether the CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD are upgradable
| or all soldered together on the board"
|
| With 99.9% certainty this box is carrying on the legacy of the
| Deck and the Deck OLED, which means that it has a 100% custom
| crafted SoC with soldered components. Which also means they
| also could perform some trickery not found in "normal" PCs,
| like UDMA and custom interface.
|
| > "but doesn't mention what kind of games it can run at that
| quality."
|
| According to the specs it has a custom _RDNA 3_ chip w / 28 CUs
| and boost clock at 2.45Ghz. The Playstation 5 has a custom
| _RDNA 2_ chip w / 36 CUs @ 2.23 GHz and the Xbox Series X has a
| custom _RDNA2 2_ chip w / 52 CUs @ 1.83Ghz.
|
| Given the optimizations AMD made in RDNA 3 (the "budget" 9070XT
| can easily keep up with the prev gen "enthousiast" 9700XTX) I
| could make a safe bet it's on the same level of performance as
| a Playstation 5
|
| > "No performance benchmarks, or mention of what the equivalent
| retail CPU/GPU to their custom one is."
|
| ~7600X, ~RX7700, but like I noted earlier that's meaningless
| because the overall architecture of the hardware in this box is
| likely completely incomparable with a generic PC (just like
| with XBX and PS5, by the way)
| wmf wrote:
| They said it's semi-custom discrete not a custom SoC. So
| basically it's a Ryzen 7400 + Radeon 7400.
| mindcrash wrote:
| I was close :)
| lawlessone wrote:
| Would this be capable of utilizing the ray/path tracing many
| games have now?
| mindcrash wrote:
| Steam Deck has a RDNA 2 chip which supports ray tracing
| (since it happily runs Indiana Jones and the Great Circle,
| which has a hard requirement for ray tracing) so I guess it
| will .
| porphyra wrote:
| According to [1], the RAM and SSD are upgradable.
|
| * 16GB DDR5 SODIMM (upgradeable)
|
| * M.2 2230/2280 NVMe SSDs
|
| [1] https://www.eurogamer.net/steam-machine-everything-we-
| know-a...
| noir_lord wrote:
| 7900XTX not 9700XTX which didn't exist.
|
| 9070XT is RDNA4 not RDNA3 and steam machine has 28CU's on
| RDNA3 which is same as RX7400 the bottom of the range RDNA3.
|
| The 7900XTX has 84 and 24GB of VRAM.
|
| This is a strictly entry level last gen GPU, don't expect
| miracles.
|
| The hardware is not good unless the price is very cheap.
|
| As for the 7900XTX been enthusiast only in the sense it it
| was the top of the line _from AMD_ it's about 4080 in some
| areas and loses badly in others (ray tracing), price wise it
| wasn't far of the 9070XT price wise at launch.
|
| I have a 7900XTX I like it a great deal but the 4090/5080 and
| 5090 crush it and the 90's are enthusiast both on price and
| perf.
|
| I ended up with a 7900XTX because nvidia pissed me off on
| Linux one time too many otherwise I'd have gotten the 4090
| but between kernel installs causing pain (nothing
| insurmountable) and them straight breaking power management
| for nearly a year on _mature_ hardware, nah, AMD deserved the
| sale, they really do support Linux better.
| fulafel wrote:
| The Steam Deck AMD chip is rumored to be a design for the
| Magic Leap 2, not for Valve.
| butlike wrote:
| All my friends have moved on to PC, and I don't really want to
| build a $1000 minimum computer with crazy LEDs that takes up a
| ton of space with a monitor at this point in my life. And
| SteamDeck doesn't support KB+M well.
|
| I have no qualms about couch gaming with a KB+M if I can do it
| with my friends and my already extensive Steam library. Unless
| they completely drop the ball on this, I'm in.
| paxys wrote:
| > and I don't really want to build a $1000 minimum computer
| with crazy LEDs that takes up a ton of space with a monitor
| at this point in my life.
|
| The beauty of a PC is you can build whatever you want. It
| doesn't need to be large, and doesn't need to have LEDs.
| There are plenty of small form factor cases on the market
| with the same footprint as this one.
| YuukiRey wrote:
| The Steam Machine is smaller than any case that would be
| considered mainstream in the small form factor community,
| at least to my knowledge. The FormD T1 is around 10L for
| example, and would look almost comically large compared to
| the Steam Machine.
|
| And enthusiast cases like this are often quite expensive
| and not easy to get. Then you need to think about thermals,
| and find hardware that actually fits.
|
| You can approach it form another angle and treat it more
| like a NUC and get a SoC but then you're probably not going
| to get close in terms of gaming performance.
|
| So long story short: I disagree that it would be straight
| forward to build something like this on your own, at the
| same price point.
| paxys wrote:
| How are you declaring it not possible "at the same price
| point" when the price of this isn't even announced?
| joseda-hg wrote:
| At the expected pricepoint, this Steam machine can't cost
| too much over say a PS5 or a regular PC with comparable
| specs and still make sense
|
| We're more or less waiting to see if / how much is Valve
| willing to subsidy the price with the expectation to
| recoup it with software
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Yep, but you need to put insane amounts of research into
| figuring out which GPUs and CPU coolers can fit your small
| case...
|
| And then you get your case and mobo and PSU and maybe CPU
| and your budget is already at over 1000EUR and you still
| need a GPU.
| paxys wrote:
| This is a fairly low spec device. You can comfortably fit
| all the hardware, case, PSU, cooling etc. in a $600-700
| budget. If you want to go small form factor then it'll
| cost a bit extra, but not _that_ much extra.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Trust me, I've tried. No success yet.
|
| Not a PC gaming expert though and I don't have infinite
| resources to spend on figuring out how many millimeters
| of space each specific case has and how long a GPU is =)
|
| But I've seen enough horror stories where someone bought
| a GPU or a heatsink that was like 5mm too big and didn't
| fit in the case without a hammer.
| bakies wrote:
| nooo.. this is about half the size of buildable SFFPCs with
| discrete graphics.
| Kreutzer wrote:
| I would reach out to those friend for freebie parts.
| koolala wrote:
| KB+M on steam deck is fine. I'm typing this on one right now.
| But I am excited for Steam Machine to use for VR streaming.
| WithinReason wrote:
| SSD and RAM replaceable, CPU and GPU soldered according to
| Linus. GPU equivalent to AMD Radeon RX 7600M
| littlestymaar wrote:
| > - No indication for whether the CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD are
| upgradable or all soldered together on the board.
|
| SSD and RAM are upgradable, source:
|
| https://www.theverge.com/tech/818111/valve-steam-machine-han...
| cubefox wrote:
| > - No indication for whether the CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD are
| upgradable or all soldered together on the board.
|
| According to a video by Digital Foundry, the main limitation
| will be the 8 GB of VRAM (some new games may require more),
| which definitely can't be upgraded.
| stoobs wrote:
| "- No indication for whether the CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD are upgradable
| or all soldered together on the board."
|
| SSD and RAM are user replaceable, CPU and GPU are soldered
| hasperdi wrote:
| Dave2D has additional info. User upgradable RAM and SSD, but not
| CPU.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=356rZ8IBCps
| derefr wrote:
| Huh, I had just been trying to look into whether there existed a
| "mini PC but with a GPU in it that's at least as good as the ones
| in game consoles."
|
| (Or, to put that another way: fundamentally, I want a game
| console -- a piece of well-integrated consumer electronics that
| lives unobtrusively in my entertainment center, hooked up to my
| TV, requiring no maintenance, controlled entirely with a
| Bluetooth gamepad. But I want it to enable me to _run_ both 1.
| current-gen games at at-least-equivalent fidelity to the console
| ports of those games; and also 2. "all the games a Windows PC
| can run." So, anything on Steam, yes; but also, all the weird
| little indie games on itch.io that never make it to Steam; and
| old DOS/Win31/Win95 games (either as polished ports from GOG, or
| through various forms of virtualization/emulation I'd set up
| myself); and even the little freeware games floating about on the
| "old internet", that someone made in Game Maker or RPG Maker 2000
| or even as a standalone Flash projector executable, way back
| when.)
|
| The closest thing I had found to that description so far, that
| even _might_ work for the use-case, was the ROG NUC.
|
| I wonder how this compares to that?
| bakies wrote:
| probably exactly what you need! :)
| thoughtpalette wrote:
| We have the ROG NUC and absolutely love it for our living room.
| Not playing any crazy AAA ultra graphics games, but it's been
| great.
|
| If I had known this was finally releasing, I would have waited
| though.
| zeec123 wrote:
| I am hyped for the improved gyro controller. Gyro aiming is so
| good that after some time it became way better than my mouse
| aiming.
| CuriouslyC wrote:
| Valve is cooking. Their work is paving the way for an open
| computing ecosystem that is gonna be lit.
| ortusdux wrote:
| I've been looking at getting a Bee-link box to run as a TV
| computer and plex server. I'm definitely holding of buying until
| I see the pricing on this!
| xd1936 wrote:
| HDMI 2.0 is a bit of a bummer. No Dynamic HDR, VRR, or eARC.
| wnevets wrote:
| Can I use it as a jellyfin server?
| moelf wrote:
| yeah it's just a Linux x86 desktop (Arch Linux) -- although,
| you'd likely want to make sure Jellyfin's hardware acceleration
| works well with AMD APU (last time I checked the AMD was under
| experimental)
| pigcat wrote:
| Can I use it as a jellyfin client? Does that... make sense?
|
| I bought a new tv (samsung s90d) and I haven't found have a
| great way to watch my jellyfin media. This tv doesn't have a
| jellyfin client in the samsung app store.
|
| I feel like I'm being stupid here, would love some suggestions
| :P I've got a local jellyfin server running on a home server in
| the basement.
| Foivos wrote:
| I thought it is very easy to burn and SD card. Since when can you
| use it as storage expansion?
| Narishma wrote:
| Steam Deck uses them the same way and it seems to work fine.
| h1fra wrote:
| not everybody has to be Apple, but the ugliness of this page (and
| the others) is astounding
| haunter wrote:
| What's ugly on the page? I think it's perfectly fine, you can
| find all the informations etc.
| artyom wrote:
| Oh, c'mon. I've been waiting for that machine for years. So much
| that I bought the Steam Deck out of frustration b/c it was _so
| close_.
|
| Two weeks ago I got tired and built a mini-ATX gaming PC with a
| RTX 5080.
|
| Way to go Steam nonetheless. I can get 100% behind a Windows-less
| gaming future. I may even buy this for a 2nd screen or for the
| kids.
| MurkyLabs wrote:
| I mean the specs seem okay but at least your computer will out-
| perform it. Just install steamOS:
| https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/65B4-2AA3-5F37-42...
| artyom wrote:
| Yeah, I understand but it but I wasn't referring to
| performance only, mostly to "living room PC gaming" in a
| convenient package, almost like a home appliance. I really
| hope Steam can pull this off.
| jorvi wrote:
| For this to truly become a console replacement, Steam needs to
| mint agreements with Netflix, Spotify and Discord.
|
| Netflix and Spotify could live as a 'game' application in the
| store. Spotify also is fairly easy to plug into Steam's overlay
| music control (currently via Decky plugins).
|
| Discord just needs integration with the Steam Friend List. I know
| Valve wants Steam Friends to compete with Discord, but that ship
| has sailed every since 2020 (and frankly, the entire decade
| before that when they let it languish).
| gapan wrote:
| What on earth is this abomination of a website? My locale is
| Greek and I'm presented with an auto-translated page in which
| most sentences don't make any sense. And I don't think it's AI
| slop, it's too bad to be even that. It feels more like google
| translate from a decade ago, translating everything word by word.
| FFS, go to fiverr and hire an actual human that knows how to
| translate stuff.
|
| Oh, and of course you're presenting greek text, as awful as it
| is, but didn't think to check if the font you're using supports
| greek at all.
|
| I'm sure it's the same for lots of other languages. _sigh_
| butlike wrote:
| i18n is hard.
| gapan wrote:
| It really isn't. Hire someone that actually speaks the
| language and can review the page before deployment.
| Otherwise, don't do it.
| pyuser583 wrote:
| What's the cost? Doesn't seem we can buy yet.
| alligatorplum wrote:
| This is likely the push i need to fully ditch windows and go
| install linux on my PC. Can't wait to preorder!
| butlike wrote:
| But will it be able to run GTA VI?
|
| Truly the only litmus test for any gaming system released from
| now until 2027.
| defraudbah wrote:
| i am ditching my ps5 for this, go valve!
| somanyphotons wrote:
| I'm surprised they went for ARM in the desktop, but for x86 on
| the handheld. Does this mean the handheld will move to ARM
| aswell?
| moelf wrote:
| >Semi-custom AMD Zen 4 6C / 12T
|
| the desktop is also x86, the VR headset (Frame) is ARM
| somanyphotons wrote:
| Does this suddenly become the best supported ARM desktop?
| tintor wrote:
| Is this the end of Windows for gaming?
| moelf wrote:
| I guess right now the GPU is too weak. And ofc even if the
| hardware steps up, there are always root-kit games gatekeeping
| :(
| DustinEchoes wrote:
| The beginning of the end.
| npteljes wrote:
| I don't think there is an end to Windows gaming. It's the de-
| facto standard PC gaming platform. If there is a real end to
| its reign, it will be in decades, as in, at least 20 years.
| somanyphotons wrote:
| If they can make it play Microsoft Flight Simulator then that'd
| be pretty enticing
| calmbonsai wrote:
| Meh, I'm hopeful, but I'll wait for specs.
| zeld4 wrote:
| 8GB vram in 2026?!
| MitPitt wrote:
| what game needs more?
| Banditoz wrote:
| Many do, especially at higher resolutions.
| simoncion wrote:
| Especially if you do stuff like "AI" upscaling, frame
| generation, and raytracing.
| hinkley wrote:
| I doubt the rest of the system will be able to do these
| high resolution versions. It's basically a console, not a
| gamer PC.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| I don't think there is any reason a game _needs_ more. I
| don't think there is any gameplay experience that couldn't
| be enjoyably delivered on this hardware. And it's a massive
| disappointment that minimum requirements bloat has been out
| of control lately.
|
| With how PC part prices have exploded after AI data center
| buying, I think we will see developers suddenly discover
| that you don't actually need half these specs to run games.
| guywithahat wrote:
| This is the real answer. Vram is largely dependent on the
| resolution you're running, and at 1080p 8gb vram is fine.
| People who want 20GB vram are probably going to build their
| own machines anyways, the steam machine is meant to be a
| console replacement to my understanding.
| pdntspa wrote:
| Is it dependent on the resolution your running, or is it
| the size of all textures that need to be cached in RAM? The
| amount of data needed to framebuffer 1080p vs 4K isn't
| _that_ great
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| I'd argue that 1080p gaming is also perfectly fine. These
| days most games have split the UI/window resolution from
| the game resolution. So you can have 4k sharp text and UI,
| while the actual game runs at 75%/50% resolution and you
| largely can't tell the difference while sitting on the
| couch.
| close04 wrote:
| It's close to an RX7500/7600 paired with a Ryzen 5 7500/7600.
| Depending on the price it can be fine for gaming. Nobody
| expects enthusiast performance. It has to be priced to be
| competitive against consoles and lower end DIY PCs.
| foresto wrote:
| I think this is fine for a mass market device.
|
| It might be easy to forget, but most gamers are not using the
| higher-end hardware that enthusiast discussions tend to focus
| on.
|
| https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
|
| Perhaps an 8GB limit will encourage game studios to allow more
| time for optimization, which seems to have fallen out of
| fashion in recent years.
|
| I imagine this will also help keep the price down, which is
| always nice.
| p1necone wrote:
| It's funny - if you look at the most recent steam hardware
| survey results this new steam machine almost exactly matches
| the median system - 16gb ram, 8gb vram, 6 physical cores, and
| the GPU looks like be roughly similar in perf to a 3060 too.
| TomatoCo wrote:
| Half Life 2 recently got a dev commentary track where Valve
| reflected on their decisions from 20 years ago. One of the
| things that stuck out to me was that, apparently, Valve
| called up Microsoft and said "Hey, what percentage of
| desktops have DirectX 8 compatible graphics cards?" and
| Microsoft had no idea.
|
| And thus the Steam Hardware Survey was born. The specs
| automatically sounded a bit anemic to me, too, but seeing
| them placed on the hardware survey I don't think they're
| making an outright _mistake_ , per se.
| sho_hn wrote:
| On the other hand the median system wasn't purchased in
| early 2026.
| kibwen wrote:
| On the other other hand, the average system in that
| survey presumably cost more than what the Steam Machine
| will retail for, if we're correct in interpreting this as
| being a competitor to dedicated consoles.
| mkozlows wrote:
| Valve has said it won't have console-like pricing, so.
| kibwen wrote:
| But even if it's double the price of the PS5/Xbox, it's
| still likely to be less than the price (at the time of
| purchase) of the mean PC in the hardware survey. For
| every gamer out there struggling along on a $500 mini-PC,
| there's another who plunked down $5,000 to play Cookie
| Clicker at 8K/240 FPS.
| p1necone wrote:
| If this gets enough adoption for gamedevs to prioritize support
| when testing games that's likely not going to be a huge
| problem. 16gb ram + 8gb vram is also similar to what all the
| current gen consoles have, although all three have the
| advantage of it being unified between the CPU and GPU so they
| can use more than 8gb vram if needed (16gb, 16gb, 12gb total
| system ram for PS5, XSX, Switch 2 respectively)
| dwood_dev wrote:
| This is my concern as well. I suspect this will struggle versus
| a PS5 because even though the PS5 only has 16GB total, its
| unified, so it can be allocated more towards VRAM if needed.
|
| If they are selling this for $300-400, it will be a hot item
| and I cant fault them at all. If it sells for $500+, its hard
| to recommend over a PS5 for most users.
|
| 1080p is already a struggle for some games with 8GB of VRAM in
| 2025, and this will probably be expected to have a service life
| of 5+ years.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| I'm thinking maybe it's unified memory? They posted "16GB DDR5
| + 8GB GDDR6 VRAM" as the specs as RAM. Typically you'd put the
| GPU-only VRAM together with the GPU, but the GPU has it's own
| separate row in the specs. Kind of suspicious how they placed
| those together like that, isn't it?
| Rohansi wrote:
| It's not unified here. The Steam Deck is and does not list
| them separately.
| lelandbatey wrote:
| I rock a 2070 super with 8GB vram and I'm still waiting for a
| big reason to upgrade. Games run good, and I play them at 1080p
| on my couch.
|
| The steam machine will be a very good upgrade!
| 59nadir wrote:
| The Steam Machine looks to me like it'll become a great
| optimization target to hit (if it becomes popular enough, which
| it probably will). Solid, predictable targets are always great,
| and now we have yet another one that doesn't have the downside
| of being in some insular, exclusive dev space like PlayStation,
| Xbox or Nintendo. It's just a PC, in an open eco system, with
| predictable and decent hardware.
| edm0nd wrote:
| Looks like the og Nintendo Gamecube but modernized.
| foresto wrote:
| Or the NeXTcube.
|
| https://www.inexhibit.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/NeXTcub...
|
| https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/NeXTcube...
| foresto wrote:
| While we're at it, the Steam Controller kind of resembles a
| space invader. :)
| schmorptron wrote:
| the GabeCube pun pratically makes itself
| nvarsj wrote:
| I'm just not seeing the market for this. Why not build a better
| steam deck dock instead?
| dangoodmanUT wrote:
| Sorry... expandable via microsd? They're terribly slow and
| unreliable, just cattle-chute us to using ssds over usb like
| consoles
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| It's just Linux, so you should be able to use a USB drive fine.
| I believe the idea is to use the same microSD card as a Steam
| Deck and Steam Frame (which also has microSD). Easily move
| games between systems.
| koolala wrote:
| You can swap out the NVMe SSD too.
| merpkz wrote:
| And yet somehow steam deck has absolutely zero issues with
| microsd cards
| koakuma-chan wrote:
| It looks pretty bad on the photos.
| m463 wrote:
| is that good bad or bad bad?
| iLoveOncall wrote:
| Irrelevant bad. It's a gaming product, you're not expected to
| wear it in public so the look doesn't matter.
| theoldgreybeard wrote:
| "the look doesn't matter"
|
| I think Sony would disagree:
|
| We wanted to do something that was bold and daring almost.
| We wanted something forward facing and future facing,
| something for the 2020s [...] The PS5's design is meant to
| demonstrate Sony's belief that the technology inside and
| the games that run on it are as eye-catching as the outside
| you see [...] that the form factor of [...] the PS5 is
| meant to "grace" your living room.
|
| The PlayStation sits in the living area of most homes, and
| we kind of felt it would be nice to provide a design that
| would really grace most living areas. That's what we've
| tried to do. And, you know, we think we've been successful
| in that.
|
| https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-boss-explains-why-
| the...
| gausswho wrote:
| Sony's dead wrong here. You want what's eye-catching in
| your living room to match your other things or fade out
| of sight. This design is nondescript and you can get your
| own custom panels if you want.
| theoldgreybeard wrote:
| My point was that the look does matter. Whether you like
| the look is a different story.
| mort96 wrote:
| I thought it looked pretty attractive? Small, understated,
| something that would fit in pretty much anywhere without
| clashing. It doesn't have anything resembling a "gaming"
| aesthetic, which is a huge plus in my book.
| koakuma-chan wrote:
| It doesn't have to be all gamer RGB, but, for me, it has to
| look well-designed, e.g., like Apple products. The Steam
| Machine looks fine, but the controller looks cheap and all
| the buttons seem too far away from each other, as if it's
| meant to be held by someone with large hands.
| mort96 wrote:
| Oh, I was just talking about the steam machine.
|
| For a controller, I don't care how it looks at all. All
| that matters is how it feels.
| branon wrote:
| Nothing really looks like Apple products except Apple
| products though, so you are locking yourself out of buying
| pretty much anything except Apple with this idiosyncrasy.
| Which I'm sure Apple is quite pleased about.
| SparkBomb wrote:
| I have a Steam Link and the Original Steam controller. The
| manufacturing while perfectly functional isn't that high
| quality.
|
| This looks similar. Kinda like a mid-ranged PC case quality.
| p1necone wrote:
| It does kinda look like a regular SFF PC case rather than a
| bespoke piece of hardware, but maybe they were going for that.
| danudey wrote:
| The biggest complaint about the PS5 is that it stood out too
| much. That's the one compelling point about the Xbox Series
| series designs - they don't look out of place in your
| entertainment centre.
|
| This is the same - you can put it somewhere people can see it
| and it's not an eyesore.
| p1necone wrote:
| Yeah the PS5 definitely went too far in the other
| direction. Too many curves making it take up even more
| space than it needs to as well (although that could have
| been an intentional choice to stop people from putting
| things on top of it).
| CobrastanJorji wrote:
| > Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who
| are we to tell you how to use your computer?
|
| From your mouth to Tim Cook's ear, friend.
| archon810 wrote:
| And Sundar's too with the latest BS about Android sideloading.
| preisschild wrote:
| Tbf at least Android is open source and AOSP itself doesnt
| have this limitation
| bnjms wrote:
| Tbf I haven't heard any news that Alphabet is requiring all
| sellers that paid off phones to be able to change to AOSP.
| 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
| Sort of. Google has slowly migrated all essential services
| into closed source libraries they control.
| drnick1 wrote:
| This isn't quite true. My GrapheneOS phone isn't lacking
| any "essential service." The only issue is that _some_
| apps distributed through the Play Store (or an
| alternative frontend like Aurora) that depend on
| proprietary Google libraries won 't work. But this is a
| problem that rests with the developers of the apps, not
| AOSP per se.
| preisschild wrote:
| Been using AOSP without Google Mobile Services for a
| decade now (LineageOS and GrapheneOS) without needing
| those "essential services"
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Is Google going to require that device makers provide
| unlocked bootloaders?
| Larrikin wrote:
| It may be too late, but its probably a good idea to to shift
| the language and start saying installing software on your own
| device. Google likes the term sideloading because it implies
| its a weird hack to not get all your software from their
| store.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Macs do allow both of those things.
|
| Valve is even borrowing some of the work done for the Mac
| version of Linux to add support for Proton on ARM hardware.
|
| > Gaming on Linux on M1 is here! We're thrilled to release our
| Asahi game playing toolkit, which integrates our Vulkan 1.3
| drivers with x86 emulation and Windows compatibility.
|
| https://rosenzweig.io/blog/aaa-gaming-on-m1.html
| drnick1 wrote:
| > Gaming on Linux on M1 is here! We're thrilled to release
| our Asahi game playing toolkit
|
| That certainly isn't thanks to Apple
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Apple gets the credit for designing a bootloader that
| allows you to run a third party unsigned OS without
| degrading device security when you do boot into MacOS.
|
| Applying the security settings per partition instead of per
| device is much more flexible, and you don't have to worry
| about Microsoft controlling which OS signing keys are
| valid.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| It's uncharacteristic of them and better than nothing.
| But simply not blocking the installation of a 3rd party
| OS should be the bare minimum required by law. Ideally
| Apple would publish documentation on the hardware so it
| didn't have to be reverse engineered.
| iAMkenough wrote:
| Although changes made since have left M3 and newer
| unsupported by the solution for the first two generations
| of their design.
| cherryteastain wrote:
| > designing a bootloader that allows you to run a third
| party unsigned OS
|
| Oh thank you master for allowing me to boot a different
| OS!
|
| Being allowed to run whatever OS you want on your device
| is a right, not something you should need permission for.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| You are allowed and maybe have one option, what's the
| problem?
| PeaceTed wrote:
| Does this mean the 1981 IBM PC gets the same praise? I
| mean you could install whatever you wanted on that thing.
| jxdxbx wrote:
| Tell every game console maker.
| firen777 wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_cluster#Decli
| ne
| rs186 wrote:
| For the sake of the argument, the topic here is running
| software on general computing devices, and most people
| don't put game consoles in that category. Also, according
| to my poor knowledge of game console history of past 30
| years, game consoles never intend to run arbitrary
| software, unless you jailbreak the device which is
| obviously not allowed by ToS.
| drnick1 wrote:
| Apple doesn't deserve any credit for that. You should be
| able to use your hardware in any way you want without
| asking Apple for permission.
| groguzt wrote:
| Apple allow this kind of thing only on Mac and while also
| ensuring it does not happen by providing 0 documentation and
| by not contributing to any outside project. FEX was not made
| as part of the Asahi Linux project btw. Please inform
| yourself before making statements
| planetafro wrote:
| Bro. I played what I consider a basic game, Inscryption, on
| my MacBook Pro M4 Pro with 24Gb and that thing sounded like
| an aircraft taking off. ...meanwhile the weak sauce Steamdeck
| plays it flawlessly. Fan hardly even spins up. There is _a
| lot_ of work to do IMO on the Mac front. I doubt Apple cares.
| joemi wrote:
| I've played much more graphically complex games on my M1
| MacBook Pro with 16GB ram and _not_ had that issue. I think
| the makers/porters of Inscryption are to blame for your
| issue, not Apple.
| arvinsim wrote:
| I agree with the other guy. Just plugging in my M1 Max
| Macbook to an external 4k monitor makes it hot to touch.
| I don't what they are doing with the cooling on this
| laptop.
| 392 wrote:
| My m4 macbook had a weird flashing external monitor
| issue. One that eventually led to my monitor appearing to
| break. But have no fear, it's a known problem since m1
| times and not a priority to fix.
| usefulcat wrote:
| Shrug. I think Minecraft qualifies as basic, and it runs
| just fine on a five year old M1 Air.
|
| It can also depend on how much effort the developer has put
| into a particular platform. Macs have not historically had
| a reputation as being a big market for games, not even in a
| relative sense, so some developers may not much effort into
| a Mac port.
| yndoendo wrote:
| That is not 100% correct. Apple is slowing closing in the
| walls on a general purpose computer and preventing the
| bypassing of Gatekeeper with the execution of unsigned
| applications to _protect the children._ [0] [1] [2] [3]
|
| [0] https://support.apple.com/guide/security/rosetta-2-on-a-
| mac-...
|
| [1]
| https://discussions.apple.com/thread/256079635?sortBy=rank
|
| [2] https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/20755
|
| [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45907259
| 63stack wrote:
| There is no "Mac version of Linux"
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| Asahi Linux is Linux specifically made to run on the
| M-series Mac hardware, so if that's not a Mac version of
| Linux, what is?
| windexh8er wrote:
| If this is your take on it, enjoy the surveillance state and
| walled garden Apple has surrounded you with. There is no
| comparison with Steam and Valve compared to "gaming" on
| Apple. Literally apples and oranges. And in this case the
| Apple is soft and tasteless.
| foxandmouse wrote:
| That said, when are we going to get a public release for
| SteamOS? ...There's a joke somewhere about them reaching
| SteamOS 3
| otikik wrote:
| Half-Life 3 confirmed
| shayway wrote:
| It's always been public:
|
| https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/65B4-2AA3-5F37-42.
| ..
|
| https://gitlab.com/evlaV/holo-PKGBUILD
| lelandfe wrote:
| > _These public repositories (@gitlab.com /evlaV) are an
| unmodified 1:1 public copy/mirror of Valve's latest
| (currently private) SteamOS 3.x (holo) GitLab repositories_
|
| This sure reads like it's private
| shayway wrote:
| You can download it and install images freely. The source
| code is private but available.
| _bernd wrote:
| > I dunno if I'd characterize this as "public"
|
| Then define public and state what's wrong with this repo
| which conflicts from your definition of public.
|
| For me this looks like a fine public resource and after a
| short glimpse it looks like that you should be able to
| even build this effing source code from this repo.
|
| Edit ps. If you edit your own content then please leave a
| note about what you have changed please
| lelandfe wrote:
| The ask was "when are we going to get a public release
| for SteamOS"
|
| Someone's bootleg copy of the private repo is not proof
| that it has
| DSMan195276 wrote:
| Well based on the paragraphs in the README it's not
| actually being updated anymore, it only reflects SteamOS
| as of August and the author quit running their process to
| update it.
| Aurornis wrote:
| The linked repo isn't the official public resource. Valve
| provides the source packages for what they distribute
| (aka GPL compliance) but this person wanted them to open
| up their private GitLab instance to the world.
|
| As far as I can tell, they wrote a script to download the
| source packages they provide and then try to reconstruct
| them into a GitLab repo.
| oblio wrote:
| Somewhere along the line during the past almost 30 years,
| we forgot what public and private mean.
| _bernd wrote:
| Now I see...
|
| Down down down you find
|
| > (April 1, 2024): After over 2 3 years (and 2 Steam Deck
| model releases - LCD and OLED) Valve still hasn't
| publicized their private GitLab repositories nor fully
| complied with the GPL. I decided to (finally) release the
| relevant portion of my automated "bot" project, aptly
| titled srcpkg2git. This/These software/tools haven't been
| updated/modified much since 2022, but should allow users
| to easily access and even mirror Valve's SteamOS private
| repositories (as I've demonstrated with these public
| mirrors (@gitlab.com/evlaV) the past over 2 3 years).
|
| Yes indeed. That's hardly public what we can get...
| Aurornis wrote:
| If I understand this correctly, Valve provides the src
| packages for the packages they distribute. This person
| wrote a script to download the src packages and extract
| them. The README misleadingly claims it's a "mirror" of
| Valve's private git repos, which is not accurate.
|
| The author wants them to open up their _GitLab instance_
| , showing their internal development. That's not required
| under GPL.
|
| Valve appears to be complying. This person wanted access
| into their internal development systems, though.
|
| The rest of the README is tens of thousands of lines
| about capitalism, abstaining from procreation, and
| withdrawing from society with hundreds of links to videos
| and hundreds of quotes. It's very strange. These are not
| the writings of a healthy person, sadly.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > https://gitlab.com/evlaV/holo-PKGBUILD
|
| So to summarize: Valve provides source code for what they
| distribute, in compliance with the GPL, but this person
| went on a personal crusade to demand they open up their
| private GitLab to the world?
|
| There appears to be some interesting history here, but this
| takes the cake as the weirdest README I've ever seen in a
| git repo.
|
| The writing is impenetrably wordy and filled with excessive
| bolding and parentheticals. It goes completely off track
| and turns into an extremely long rant that implores the
| reader to "abstain from procreation", among other things.
| There are hundreds of links and hundreds of quotes mixed
| into long-winded sections about the author's self-
| importance.
|
| Does anyone have a link to a more down to earth, less self-
| important, and more importantly concise explanation of
| what's going on?
| santoshalper wrote:
| Yeah, this is clearly a person going through a mental
| health crisis. Sorry for them.
| indigo945 wrote:
| From what I understand from this repo, the problem is
| that the official Valve source code release contains
| PKGBUILD files with build steps that reference a
| _private_ Gitlab repo that 's internal to Valve. So while
| there is a public release of all source code available
| for download from Valve's website, these sources cannot
| actually be built because they want to clone a repo that
| cannot be accessed.
|
| (In other words, even if you download a tarball of all
| SteamOS code, you cannot build it, because the build
| script insists on downloading source code from a Valve-
| internal remote, instead of looking for it locally.)
|
| So to fix this, the author of this repo did two things:
| they created public mirrors of all individual git repos
| that are referenced by the PKGBUILD scripts (presumably
| by extracting the tarballs from Valve's release and
| running git init/add/commit/push), and then they created
| a "master" repo (linked here) that has only the
| PKGBUILDs, which the author fixed so they reference their
| own public mirrors instead of Valve's internal GitLab
| repos. See [1], for example, which contains the build
| instructions for the Steam Deck's DSP driver. The
| referenced git repository ([2]) is an inofficial mirror
| of Valve's internal repo, created from the source code
| release from the Valve website.
|
| So no, it's not a "personal crusade" to demand Valve open
| up their "private GitLab to the world". It's a serious
| grievance about Valve releasing an "open-source" software
| that cannot actually be built from source, and a request
| for Valve to provide a public GitLab mirror themselves,
| such that their PKGBUILD scripts will actually work.
|
| I agree that the author has a confusing writing style,
| but I do understand their frustrations and concerns.
|
| [1]: https://gitlab.com/evlaV/jupiter-
| PKGBUILD/-/blob/master/stea...
|
| [2]: https://gitlab.com/evlaV/valve-hardware-audio-
| processing
| foxandmouse wrote:
| oh no, this again.. I remember checking out HoloISO when
| I was looking for SteamOS at launch... did a quick lookup
| on the creator and yeah, turns out he's a racist furry
| (literally)..
| p1necone wrote:
| I have a SFF pc with an AMD GPU and AMD CPU both with better
| specs that the new Steam Machine just waiting for them to
| release a standalone installer for SteamOS :(
| bsimpson wrote:
| You can use the Steam Deck recovery image to flash an SSD
| with SteamOS. It's what those of us on other handhelds do.
| runsonrum wrote:
| Have you tried CachyOS? May get the results you are looking
| for with Desktop or even Handheld addition.
| presbyterian wrote:
| Have you tried Bazzite? It's basically a drop-in
| replacement. It's based on Fedora's Atomic stuff instead of
| Arch, but if it wasn't for the logo at the start, I'd be
| hard pressed to notice I was using it and not vanilla
| SteamOS.
| p1necone wrote:
| I did try using Bazzite but I had weird issues with
| stuttering/throttling on the RX 7600 which made most
| games totally unplayable (I confirmed the same hardware
| worked fine on a windows install). That was a while ago
| though, it's probably worth me trying again.
|
| Normally I just use regular Fedora/Arch/OpenSUSE for
| gaming on Linux and never see any issues (albeit that's
| on a 6800xt at the moment) but I want that consolized
| experience.
|
| edit: found the thread where I discussed fixing this -
| few bits of false hope and then I eventually gave up.
| https://www.answeroverflow.com/m/1314736793190662216
| 20after4 wrote:
| I just use vanilla debian and Steam works great. Just set
| it to launch steam on login and set your system to auto-
| login, that should get you most of the way.
| pegasus89 wrote:
| The installer is here: https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/
| view/65B4-2AA3-5F37-42...
|
| The sources of the packages are here: https://steamdeck-
| packages.steamos.cloud/archlinux-mirror/so...
|
| And for the record most packages come directly from Arch
| Linux, unmodified.
| BolexNOLA wrote:
| That is not for desktops. I would assume they meant a
| proper steamOS desktop release. We haven't seen one in many
| years and the previous one is basically useless for most
| people.
|
| Many of us have been waiting for a proper release for a
| LONG time. Bazzite is nice but I want to see what valve
| does next.
| dathinab wrote:
| my guess is it will be mostly the same as for the
| SteamDeck but with
|
| - Game Mode becoming getting a not Steam Deck specific
| desktop version, which I would love to see, e.g. last
| time I installed Bazzite+Steam Game mode, the Game Mode
| will default to 1080p even if your GPU can render 4k
| ...(easy to fix in the options menu, tho. But not very
| convenient.).
|
| - slightly different defaults, tweaks, builds (e.g. AFIK
| not to long ago if you tried to put SteamOS on a desktop
| with RDNA3 graphics it didn't work. But they seem to more
| or less just use a standard linux graphic stack, so it's
| probably was just something on the line of "as it's not
| expected the parts needed for RDNA3 wheren't compiled
| in/shipped in the SteamOS for SteamDeck image)
| hamdingers wrote:
| There's nothing stopping you from installing it on a
| desktop with the right hardware.
|
| I have a Ryzen 5 5600 and a 7600 xt in an sff pc,
| installed steamos directly from the recovery image. It
| supports the GPU, controllers, even the super fast
| sleep/wake.
| BolexNOLA wrote:
| Valve has specifically taken down the (desktop) steamOS
| download page and only kept up the recovery page because
| it just isn't a viable desktop OS if you want to play
| modern games consistently (as well as other
| shortcomings). They explicitly discourage its use for
| desktop on the recovery page IIRC and emphasize it's for
| handheld hardware.
|
| The amount of tinkering and driver patching and just
| general work it requires to get it to play games properly
| (especially if the person is not AMD CPU/GPU) now makes
| it a non-starter except for people who explicitly want to
| _make it_ work.
|
| It can run. It generally runs poorly and with major holes
| in it.
| hamdingers wrote:
| What you are saying just doesn't align with my
| experience. I've done no tinkering and definitely no
| patching and have been able to play several modern games
| (Cyberpunk, Spiderman 2, GoW: Ragnorok). I expect it's
| not the same for Nvidia based pcs or ones with
| exceptionally old or new AMD hardware, which is why I
| specified the hardware I'm using.
|
| Telling me that the computer I've been gaming on for the
| last 7 months "isn't viable" for gaming based on CYA
| language on the downloads page is annoying and
| unconstructive.
| BolexNOLA wrote:
| You don't have to argue with me about it. Feel free to
| dismiss my opinion. But I encourage you to go do a
| cursory search online about this and see what comes up.
|
| I never said it can't be done, just that it's ill-advised
| given the limitations and specific hardware requirements
| to make it work stably/consistently. You yourself said
| "with the right hardware," which is doing a lot of heavy
| lifting.
|
| Valve doesn't stand by it as a desktop OS currently.
| Whenever it comes up, people almost always instruct folks
| to go to bazzite. What I am excited for is what they have
| planned for the steam machine because it's hard to
| imagine that an updated version of steamOS built for
| desktops isn't coming.
| danudey wrote:
| Yeah, imagine if you could install a different operating system
| on your Mac! What a world that would be!
|
| Worth noting that this is a dig against the other consoles
| which do not allow this, not Apple who (in part) does.
| bigyabai wrote:
| Apple can revoke it at any time. If a future update disabled
| or changed iBoot, there is no guarantee Linux would ever run
| again (unlike UEFI Macs).
|
| Valve is not like Apple, they treat UEFI as a default.
| jsheard wrote:
| Apple giving you more than consoles do is damning with faint
| praise, the Mac bootloader is technically open but without
| any public hardware documentation it's borderline impossible
| to do anything useful with that. Asahi have done incredible
| work but even they are still catching up with the M3,
| nevermind the current M5.
| patrickdavey wrote:
| Will it be possible to play retroarch games too? (i.e. the old
| SNES/NES games) etc. ?
| egypturnash wrote:
| I sure have installed a bunch of emulators on my Deck. It's
| not too hard to get individual games to show up in the main
| Steam menu, iirc. Haven't really fiddled with them since
| initial setup though.
| SparkBomb wrote:
| Retroarch is already on Steam as well as other emulators.
|
| https://store.steampowered.com/app/1118310/RetroArch/
|
| Even if you didn't want to use the Steam versions. Steam OS
| is essentially a customised Arch Linux and you can install
| stuff as you would on other Linux distros e.g. via packages
| and flathub. Basically it is a regular computer underneath.
| That is why I am very excited about this Steam box.
|
| https://www.gamingonlinux.com/guides/view/how-to-install-
| ext...
| theoldgreybeard wrote:
| Isn't SteamOS immutable? Can you layer packages on it like
| you can with Fedora Silverblue?
| pico303 wrote:
| On the Steam Deck you boot into desktop mode and it's a
| standard Linux. Install what you want. I have Heroic
| Launcher on mine, running games from GOG and Epic
| alongside Steam games.
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| You can add packages, but they can be wiped by the
| updates. Flatpaks work seamlessly and because of the
| Deck's popularity, most everything you would want is
| available in flatpak form
| miffy900 wrote:
| They can afford to make a big song and dance about this because
| chances are they are not selling the hardware at a loss and
| they have the regular steam store to offset the short term
| costs. If they were selling the hardware at a loss, I think
| their marketing trying to sell this device would be very
| different.
| stogot wrote:
| Is Apple selling their hardware at a loss?
| culi wrote:
| No, but I think the primary comparison is meant to be other
| major consoles (xbox, playstation, nintendo)
| tormeh wrote:
| Sort of, maybe. I read it more as them assuring everyone
| that it's still a PC if a customer ends up wanting a plan
| B.
| batiudrami wrote:
| I know you are being rhetorical but for reference, of
| course not, their margin on hardware is 36%
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| Do we count socks and slings (Pocket(tm)) as hardware?
| dathinab wrote:
| they probably will handle it like with the Steam Deck
|
| - no loss
|
| - but small profit margin anyway, to max reduce the price, to
| max increase adoption/reach
|
| for Valve people using Steam on non Windows platforms is more
| important then making a big buck from Steam Machines (because
| this makes them less dependent on Windows, MS has tried(and
| failed) to move into the direction of killing 3rd party app
| stores before, and Windows has gotten ... crappy/bloated/ad-
| infested which is in the end a existential risk for Valve
| because if everyone moves away from PC gaming they will lose
| out hugely)
| musicale wrote:
| Switch was always sold for more than component and
| manufacturing cost. PS4 crossed the threshold quickly (per
| Sony iirc?)
|
| However, that ignores R&D costs which presumably have to be
| amortized, largely through game sales and platform fees. The
| same is true for other platforms like iOS.
| culi wrote:
| I haven't gamed in almost a decade but what an exciting time to
| be alive as a PC gamer:
|
| - almost every classic console is easy to emulate
|
| - most modern consoles are, less-legally, emulatable
|
| - we have thorough archives of Flash games and ofc almost all
| non-flash web games are still functioning
|
| - cross compatibility across OS's has never been better
|
| And, best of all, almost all of this is achievable on Linux!
| You can also plug in almost any controller, VR headset, or
| monitor/projector. Remote gaming has also made incredible
| progress allowing gamers to access their expansive libraries
| while not even at home.
|
| In fact, I can't think of a single thing a console can do that
| a PC can't
| agoodusername63 wrote:
| > - most modern consoles are, less-legally, emulatable
|
| wheres the PS4 or like, any xbox emulator?
|
| It's just Nintendo that has modern, usable emulators for most
| of the games you'd want to play. xbox never got lucky for
| basically any of their consoles and Sony never got anything
| usable after PS3.
| MegaDeKay wrote:
| > wheres the PS4
|
| - early days, but ShadPS4
|
| > any xbox emulator
|
| - OG XBox: xemu
|
| - XBox 360: xenia
|
| - XBox 1: early days but WinDurango and XWine1
| agoodusername63 wrote:
| none of these consoles are "usable"
|
| I'm pretty into emulation. It's very misleading to claim
| that "modern consoles are emulatable" when no, only
| nintendo has emulators you can boot up, pick from a very
| large list of compatible games, and have a consistent
| experience that any sane person would want out of these.
|
| Sony disappears after PS3 and xbox... well I guess xemu
| is Fine, but you're going to play for an hour and then
| come to the conclusion that you're better off hooking up
| the old console
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| Xenia's usable these days. Worse than RPCS3, but usable
| tapoxi wrote:
| Early days? Those consoles shipped 12 years ago.
| culi wrote:
| I was gonna correct you and then I realized 2013 was
| indeed 12 years ago.
|
| I guess in my original comment when I said "modern" I
| just mean not the classics. Other than the latest Xbox
| and Playstation models, emulators for those lineages are
| quite mature. Even the Nintendo Switch (2017) has
| multiple really great emulators.
|
| The point is it's easier to list out which consoles _don
| 't_ have emulators than it is to list out consoles that
| do. Other than nintendo, there are pretty few console-
| exclusive games nowadays
| fwipsy wrote:
| Consoles are just loss leaders for software now. Hot take:
| this is true of the Steam Deck and Machine as well. Yes you
| can play games from other vendors, but PC gamers are very
| loyal to Steam and many will never bother. I imagine at least
| half of steam deck users just use it like a console, not like
| a PC.
| csullivannet wrote:
| I don't see a reason not to be loyal to Steam. I probably
| spend just as much if not more than console gamers but in
| return I get so much more value.
| culi wrote:
| It's pretty good as a consumer but they take a massive
| cut out for developers. I'm not crying about EA not
| getting its profit margins, but the cut Steam takes can
| _really_ hurt indie devs.
|
| I try to buy from itch.io whenever its an option.
| jsheard wrote:
| > I'm not crying about EA not getting its profit margins,
| but the cut Steam takes can really hurt indie devs.
|
| Indies actually lose more of their margin than EA does,
| because Steam reduces their 30% cut to 25% after $10m in
| sales and 20% after $50m in sales. Few indies are doing
| those numbers, so it's functionally a discount for AAA
| publishers to discourage them from leaving for their own
| launchers again (EA did leave back when it was a flat 30%
| rate for everyone).
| akimbostrawman wrote:
| It is a large cut but they also offer much more features
| than any other store not to mention exposure.
| fwipsy wrote:
| Steam is a good experience and a good price relative to
| consoles, but other PC gaming storefronts do undercut
| them. See: Epic free games, isthereanydeal.com
| (competitive marketplace for legitimate game code
| resellers, which you can register with Steam,) and the
| class action lawsuits from Wolfire Games for price
| fixing.
| aussieguy1234 wrote:
| I guess to get their stores on the platform, Epic Games etc
| will need to create officially supported Linux stores.
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| Or endorse Heroic, which works better than their launcher
| anyhow, even on Windows
| m463 wrote:
| > Consoles are just loss leaders for software now.
|
| Maybe software is just a link in the chain to
| subscriptions.
| tmtvl wrote:
| > _almost every classic console is easy to emulate_
|
| Yes, but unless you have a library from back in the day
| classic console games are hard to find and/or expensive. Try
| finding a copy of Biker Mice From Mars, for example.
| amypetrik8 wrote:
| > almost every classic console is easy to emulate
|
| >Yes, but unless you have a library from back in the day
| classic >console games are hard to find and/or expensive.
| Try finding a >copy of Biker Mice From Mars, for example.
|
| Anon, I... ..... I am sorry to be the first one to tell you
| this... but you don't need to buy a copy of Biker Mice from
| Mars off eBay for 9 gorillion dollars. You can download
| every SNES game ever made in the history of ever for zero
| dollars. Then autists have reprogrammed FPGAs so you can
| run the ROM on exact circuitry powering a CRT to have an
| essentially 99.999999% identical experience
| culi wrote:
| My friend,
|
| https://www.google.com/search?q=Biker+Mice+From+Mars+rom
| musicale wrote:
| > In fact, I can't think of a single thing a console can do
| that a PC can't
|
| Play current Nintendo game cards (and run the eShop etc.)
| without headaches or workarounds of dubious legality?
|
| Run your whole PSN library reliably, without headaches or
| workarounds?
|
| Full game system (with decent 4K in the case of PS5) for the
| price of a GPU?
|
| Work out of the box without messing with it?
| culi wrote:
| Yes it's true. Emulators still have trouble getting around
| DRM and console-exclusives
|
| But think about it this way. A PC can run PS3 games but a
| PS4 can't. A PC can run xbox 360 games but an xbox one
| can't.
|
| I think all the console-exclusives out there are more than
| made up for by PCs being the ultimate backward-compatible
| gaming system
| jeppester wrote:
| That single thing is great UX.
|
| While I personally very much enjoy all of the things I can do
| on PC and Steam Deck, I can definitely understand why my wife
| - who's not as technically inclined - prefers the PS5.
| mottey wrote:
| When Steam Pass?
| Mr_Eri_Atlov wrote:
| This project is a gaming console dream.
|
| Compact and looks nice, no qualms about displaying it in the
| living room, with customizable front panels.
|
| Optimized to just barely hit 4K 60 fps as cheaply as possible.
|
| Controllers designed to avoid stick drift, easy to charge, and
| featuring low-latency wireless connections.
|
| Stream from a Steam Machine to a Steam Deck or a Steam Frame if
| you have one; the Steam Machine enhances your other purchases
| further.
|
| Instantly supports everyone's libraries of dozens, if not
| hundreds, of games acquired over the years.
|
| And you can just use it as a desktop computer if you like?
|
| Give me the Gabecube!
| thrownawaysz wrote:
| The elephant in the room: "will this game run on my Steam
| Machine?"
|
| This is really the part a lot of people don't understand and not
| a qestion you even have to ask when you buy/download a game for a
| console.
|
| Some of the biggest games right now like BF6, COD, or Fortnite,
| League of Legends, chinese gacha games won't run on this. That
| excludes a massive part of the market, many of whom would be the
| exact audience for a simpler, more console-like PC experience.
| There's also no guarantee that future AAA games will be
| compatible with this day one (8GB VRAM is very limiting already).
|
| Yeah yeah indies but if people want to play X then offering them
| Z is not an option.
|
| This will be DOA anything over $500
| Otek wrote:
| This is true also for steam deck but it's a success anyway.
| COD, Fortnite, LoL players can stay on windows. I'm happy to
| play newest indie game on my Linux machine
| thrownawaysz wrote:
| >but it's a success anyway
|
| That's also debatable. Switch 2 sold 10m units in 6 months
| compared to the Steam Deck's 4 million in 3 years
| -\\_(tsu)_/-
|
| The Steam Deck is niche even among the gaming crowd.
|
| >COD, Fortnite, LoL players can stay on windows. I'm happy to
| play newest indie game on my Linux machine
|
| This is the mindset that makes the Steam Machine DOA if not
| priced correctly. No one will pay $800 just to play Hollow
| Knight in 4k
| galleywest200 wrote:
| Worth considering that Nintendo has a massive library of
| proprietary games they themselves produce (Mario, Pokemon,
| etc) that Steam does not have.
|
| People buy Nintendo products to play Nintendo games.
| TheAngush wrote:
| Success is relative. The Steam Deck is only unsuccessful if
| you consider the goal of the device to be "outsell
| Nintendo". I would argue 4 million units is not merely a
| success, but a _massive_ success.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| For an interesting comparison, the PS Vita did about 4
| million in the first year.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| The Steam Deck also had no marketing and is not sold in
| retail stores. It's also been a success in kicking off a
| whole product category of handheld PCs, of which most games
| will be bought on Steam.
| arvinsim wrote:
| Good thing Valve is not a publicly traded company unlike
| Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft.
|
| > This is the mindset that makes the Steam Machine DOA if
| not priced correctly. No one will pay $800 just to play
| Hollow Knight in 4k
|
| I will pay that money to finish up my backlog of games on
| Steam. I already pay that much for Steam Deck anyway.
| porphyra wrote:
| You can likely install Windows on Steam Machine if you so wish,
| and then it would actually be a fairly competent mini PC while
| having great and silent cooling. However, I suppose most casual
| gamers aren't savvy enough to tinker and install their own OS.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Maybe this will have better luck this time, and who knows,
| studios might finally care to do at Steam OS native builds.
| bigyabai wrote:
| Maybe they'll pull a Cyberpunk, and just add a "Steam Machine"
| setting to their Windows version when you run it in
| translation.
|
| I'd prefer that. It's easier for developers, easier for me, and
| only harms the already-negligible market of curmudgeonly native
| pundits that probably don't use Steam in the first place.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Then eventually they will suffer the same fate as OS/2 "runs
| Windows better".
|
| Don't build castles on kingdoms ruled by other overlords.
| bigyabai wrote:
| > Don't build castles on kingdoms ruled by other overlords.
|
| If anyone was scared by that, native software wouldn't
| exist anywhere.
|
| Seems you're still butthurt about the low adoption rate
| of... well, _alternative_ API vendors. Truly a shame, I
| wish Linux could help.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Microsoft is the one that is butthurt with SteamOS.
|
| Anyone that thinks one of the biggest console and desktop
| vendors, and publisher after ABK deal, is going to let
| another platform translating their systems win the race,
| is not paying attention to Microsoft's history.
|
| When that happens, people would have liked that studios,
| not Microsoft owned, actually cared abandon Steam OS
| native games.
|
| I play games on the platforms they are native, since Loki
| is no longer, I don't do GNU/Linux gaming, only Android,
| Windows and PlayStation.
| nelsonfigueroa wrote:
| This is exciting. I can't wait to get rid of Windows altogether.
| I only put up with it for gaming purposes.
| martini333 wrote:
| >HDMI 2.0
|
| So no 4K 120 Hz ?
| jbaber wrote:
| Many comments here and on similar posts bring up only keeping
| Windows for games, and only then for games that require heavy
| anti-cheat.
|
| Is there a reason there couldn't be non-regulation copies of
| games that don't do anti-cheat but are otherwise fine. Like metal
| baseball bats, oversized golfballs, etc. Official, but not
| allowed in competitions?
| pndy wrote:
| The body is really simple and appealing but as these are rare
| nowadays I wish they'd consider squeezing an optional optical
| drive inside or perhaps maybe some external one that would stack
| on top.
| sph wrote:
| Aren't external optical drives quite cheap and only require a
| USB connection? You could consider that instead and stack it on
| top.
| vondur wrote:
| The PC looks pretty cool in a small form factor case. And since
| it runs ArchBTW, you can run a bunch of other games too outside
| of Steam. Wondering how the pricing will be...
| KronisLV wrote:
| > CPU Semi-custom AMD Zen 4 6C / 12T up to 4.8 GHz, 30W TDP
|
| > GPU Semi-Custom AMD RDNA3 28CUs 2.45GHz max sustained clock,
| 110W TDP
|
| > RAM 16GB DDR5 + 8GB GDDR6 VRAM
|
| All of those seem a little low (at least judging by power usage)
| when compared to your average tower gaming PC build, but modern
| parts are pretty power efficient and given the form factor (and
| hopefully reasonable price) it seems like it's gonna be a pretty
| good device - definitely enough for most indie titles, all
| e-sports titles, even AA/AAA games with some upscaling/framegen,
| although I predict that your average UE5 slop game will wipe the
| floor with it. That doesn't reflect badly on the hardware, just
| how the devs use the engine in some cases, but at the same time
| being able to use it as a regular SFF PC is nice as well,
| actually a good reason to buy it compared to most consoles.
| tagyro wrote:
| [off-topic rant]
|
| Two companies, both (quasi) monopolies in their field.
|
| Company A built its fortune by exploiting people.
|
| Company B built its fortune by building (somewhat) decent
| products.
|
| Company A developed a very advanced approach to hiring: specific
| questions to assess a candidate's psychometric profile, screens
| to weed out bad choices, and a laser focus on the "top 0.1%".
|
| Company B made it very public that hiring well is vital and
| encouraged every employee to think about it and participate. They
| even published an Employee Handbook years ago [0]
|
| Today, many startups copy Company A's playbook: crafting advanced
| questionnaires, trick questions, and trying to detect behavioural
| traits in their candidates.
|
| No startup (that I know of [1]) has adopted Company B's strategy.
|
| Take your pick on who Company A is. Company B is Valve.
|
| [0]:
| http://media.steampowered.com/apps/valve/Valve_Handbook_LowR...
|
| [1]: I kjnow of one that <<pretends>> to
| paperpunk wrote:
| I love Valve games and I love that they are spending their
| resources in areas I care about and that feel underserved by
| other companies, but I don't think the moral comparison is so
| clear cut. They were also pioneers in micro-transactions, loot
| crates, software distribution tax, and turning Counter-Strike
| skins into a speculative frenzy.
| tagyro wrote:
| I have to admit, I never got into micro-transactions and loot
| craetes. I did play CS, but never cared about skins and
| focused on head shots - I am ignorant in this aspect.
| energy123 wrote:
| A reason to get this instead of Playstation/Xbox is that games on
| Steam are significantly cheaper through keys sites like g2a.com
| or just waiting for discounts.
|
| Playstation/Xbox know you're locked in because you've already
| sunk money into the console, and they use this pricing power
| against you.
| maccard wrote:
| I work in games.
|
| Please don't buy games from g2a and the likes. In the best
| case, g2a make money and the developer doesn't . in the worst
| case you're buying bogus keys or stolen accounts.
|
| Please, just pirate games instead.
| bhelkey wrote:
| > in the worst case you're buying bogus keys or stolen
| accounts
|
| Maybe this is just a hole in my knowledge but I don't see how
| this could be the case.
|
| Regarding stolen accounts: Once I activate a Steam key, I
| can't deactivate my copy to get my key back (I don't think
| anyways). How would a stolen account generate steam keys?
|
| Regarding bogus keys: If the keys primarily didn't work I
| suspect that we would see deplatforming of the site by
| payment processors. They generally don't like when all their
| customers issue chargebacks.
|
| I think there is some risk that keys sold in a grey market
| are purchased by stolen credit cards but I can't imagine that
| this is too prevalent. I would think that the credit card
| owner would dispute the charge and Steam would deactivate the
| key.
| small_scombrus wrote:
| > I would think that the credit card owner would dispute
| the charge and Steam would deactivate the key
|
| There's a real issue for both Valve and the game dev if
| this happens. _The public_ isn 't going to take _this key
| doesn 't work_ or worse _my game stopped working after I
| bought it_ and blame nebulous credit card fraud, they 're
| going to blame Valve and/or the dev
| maccard wrote:
| > There's a real issue for both Valve and the game dev if
| this happens. The public isn't going to take this key
| doesn't work or worse my game stopped working after I
| bought it and blame nebulous credit card fraud, they're
| going to blame Valve and/or the dev
|
| It's actually worse than that. G2A have a "consumer
| friendly" approach whereby if your code doesn't work,
| they'll basically just take your word for it and give you
| a new one. In effect what it means is they don't really
| care if the codes are stolen/duds, they'll just go
| through _more_ to avoid them having a chargeback against
| them.
| maccard wrote:
| > Regarding stolen accounts
|
| A good number of these sites sell accounts, not keys. You
| buy an access to an account that you log in to, with the
| key enabled on it. Again, best case it's a region swapped
| key between 5 people and g2a get paid and the devs get
| nothing. Worst case it's a stolen credit card purchasing a
| single key.
|
| > I would think that the credit card owner would dispute
| the charge and steam would deactivate the key.
|
| Yes. Chargebacks are painfully expensive for the vendor.
| One chargeback for a $10 game likely undoes 4/5 sales.
|
| https://www.tinybuild.com/single-
| post/2017/04/28/g2a-sold-45... This story did the rounds a
| few years ago explaining how much it cost a small publisher
| shmeeed wrote:
| Ouch! I got one or two games from a key seller some years
| ago. I never knew these sites were such a shady act. I
| really, actually thought they just bought the keys in bulk
| during a sale to resell them later. TIL :(
| maccard wrote:
| I'm a firm believer in letting bygones be bygones. I bought
| from them too (cdkeys back in the day) before i learned the
| truth!
| PeaceTed wrote:
| A big thing here is that you can always buy another or build
| another PC that can run this stuff if you don't like the Steam
| Machine. You cannot build a PS5/Xbox to do the same.
| jeroenhd wrote:
| Just pirate the games instead of using key sites, they're full
| of chargeback scams that often end up costing developers more
| money than piracy. Those ten bucks you save really aren't worth
| the trouble of losing your account over.
|
| With how often Steam games are on sale, you may ass well wait a
| little longer and buy directly through Valve.
|
| The beauty of PC is that you can also buy games through GOG and
| Epic if they offer a better price.
| guyforml wrote:
| Don't forget the subscription-free multiplayer
| squigz wrote:
| https://isthereanydeal.com/ is a great resource
| echelon wrote:
| > There's an LED strip, y'all!
|
| I've never seen marketing embrace southern culture like this.
|
| I love it, y'all!
| ElijahLynn wrote:
| "One USB-C and four USB-A ports."
|
| I'm confused...
| justin66 wrote:
| In case you have four old usb-powered lamps or appliances you'd
| like to connect to the thing.
| p1necone wrote:
| Excited for Steam/PC games on ARM to get better as a side effect
| of the Frame running using a Snapdragon CPU.
|
| Running x86 PC games on higher end Android devices already works
| better than you might expect via gamehub/gamehub lite/winlator,
| but it requires much random trying of different driver and
| runtime versions for every game and even then a _lot_ don 't work
| or have issues.
| PeaceTed wrote:
| I do like this about Valve. They understand the 'Chicken and
| egg' scenario and thus try to push hardware or software ideas
| forward in the hopes that it encourages others to work to that.
|
| Like Steamdeck with Proton, developers have a tangible target
| and can ensure their stuff works on it.
| sedatk wrote:
| > Steam/PC games on ARM to get better
|
| Exactly! It legitimizes ARM as a PC platform for both games and
| apps, and this helps the adoption of the architecture even on
| Windows.
| ginko wrote:
| I find it weird that a new device in 2025 still comes with only
| one USB-C port and otherwise only USB-A. Is USB-C that much more
| expensive? Is it about power delivery?
| ZeWaka wrote:
| I would imagine because most peripherals you'd connect to this
| are still mostly USB-A. Controllers, mice, keyboards, USB
| sticks, ...
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| Most peripherals these days have a detachable cable, so they
| can be used with USB-C or A. The main issue would be those
| wireless dongles.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| USB-C is still not widely adopted for many specific uses, in
| particular peripherals (keyboard/mouse dongles)
|
| Logitech finally got their USB-C dongle out last year I think ?
| Keychron only offers USB-A as far as I know. And many other
| keyboard and mouse brands are in the same boat. Depending on
| your setup that's already 2 USB-A ports needed. You can put an
| adapter, but you're then dongling a dongle.
|
| PS: just realized Valve's own VR to PC adapter is also USB-A.
| hinkley wrote:
| I was about to bitch about Logitech and their USB-A dongle
| yesterday and looked to see that they did finally produce a
| USB-C dongle. Miracles do happen.
| cesarb wrote:
| > [...] only offers USB-A as far as I know. And many other
| keyboard and mouse brands are in the same boat.
|
| Many new computers (including this Steam Machine) have
| exactly two USB-2-only USB-A ports (the rest of the USB ports
| being more capable). It's not hard to guess what they're for:
| the keyboard and the mouse.
| translucent0 wrote:
| it's meant for gaming and doesn't come with a LAN connection. sad
| lol.
| distances wrote:
| It has gigabit LAN.
| translucent0 wrote:
| it's meant for 'high-end' gaming but doesn't come with a lan
| connection(?)
| adham-omran wrote:
| What do you mean? There's 1 gigabit ethernet.
| IlikeKitties wrote:
| >Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still your
| PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who
| are we to tell you how to use your computer?
|
| In a world of locked bootloaders and ever more locked down
| device, valve is pushing the envolope with a linux based gaming
| console.
| abracadaniel wrote:
| Reporting indicates one of the use cases they designed for is
| swapping an SD card between steam deck, steam machine and steam
| frame to bring your installed games along with you, which is
| technologically unimpressive, but so far against the grain that
| it's shocking a company would include that kind of
| functionality.
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| This is especially interesting in context of Steam Frame. It's
| easy to get an unlocked mini-PC, but an unlocked "mainstream"
| standalone VR device with first-class Linux support would bring
| something new to the table.
| rvz wrote:
| 16 GB of RAM, 4K@60 FPS, with USB3.
|
| I'm afraid that this steam machine is so underpowered that it is
| no better if not much significantly slower than a MacBook Pro
| with a M4 Max.
|
| The specs appear to be from late 2019. Might as well get a PS5
| instead.
|
| No thanks and No deal.
| phkahler wrote:
| >> I'm afraid that this steam machine is so underpowered that
| it is no better if not much significantly slower than a MacBook
| Pro with a M4 Max.
|
| Isn't that one of the fastest laptops money can buy?
| danudey wrote:
| "If the Steam Machine can't compete with a $3500 laptop I
| don't even want it!"
| rvz wrote:
| Because that worked well with the last Steam Machine in
| 2015 didn't it? Even though it was much cheaper. /s
|
| Even with specs from 2019 - 2020, it already lost to the
| consoles on arrival and still can't even play the DRM'ed
| games on Day 1 as long as it is on SteamOS.
|
| You might as well get a Macbook M4 Max or an equivalent
| Windows gaming laptop as the Steam Machine is too
| underpowered for PC gamers and as long as it runs SteamOS
| (Linux) is unable to play the same games as those on
| Windows on day 1.
| danudey wrote:
| The XBox Series X and PS5 both have 16 GB of RAM; in the case
| of the XSX that's 10 GB for the GPU and 6 GB for the OS and
| apps.
|
| So 16 GB in this case, for running the same games and
| outputting to the same displays, seems entirely reasonable.
|
| > The specs appear to be from late 2019. Pass
|
| Probably more accurate to say the specs are from 2020, which is
| when the PS5 and XSX launched.
|
| > it is no better if not much significantly slower than a
| MacBook Pro with an M4 Max
|
| Does the M4 Max run SteamOS and your Windows steam games very
| well? I guess this Steam Machine is going to be embarassingly
| underpowered if it also costs $3500.
|
| On the other hand, if it is a mass-market 'console' PC priced
| at ~$500-750 then I think it's okay if it's 'no better...than a
| Macbook Pro with M4 Max'.
| rvz wrote:
| > Probably more accurate to say the specs are from 2020,
| which is when the PS5 and XSX launched.
|
| In 2026, those specs are significantly underpowered and close
| to outdated.
|
| > Does the M4 Max run SteamOS and your Windows steam games
| very well?
|
| Even if it does with Asahi Linux [0] it would still run over
| the Steam Machine in performance alone, especially with 2024
| specifications.
|
| We both know that neither of them can run DRM'ed games on
| Linux on Day 1 on Steam.
|
| > I guess this Steam Machine is going to be embarassingly
| underpowered if it also costs $3500.
|
| Not even the original Steam Machine sold well even though the
| lowest priced model was at ~$450 with the highest priced one
| was at $1,110 and was still also behind the state of the art
| console specs at the time.
|
| > On the other hand, if it is a mass-market 'console' PC
| priced at ~$500-750 then I think it's okay if it's 'no
| better...than a Macbook Pro with M4 Max'.
|
| Then there would be no point for Windows PC gamers or console
| players at all to switch. It only appeals to hardcore Linux
| users and at least competes against a Framework laptop
| running steam which is a very low bar to beat.
|
| [0] https://asahilinux.org/2024/10/aaa-gaming-on-asahi-linux/
| yencabulator wrote:
| Apple's hardware secrecy means only M1 has been reverse
| engineered to any degree. You talking about M4 is utterly
| irrelevant to gaming.
| NeutralCrane wrote:
| If it competes with a PS5, but runs my Steam Library, it's
| automatically won IMO.
| kevincox wrote:
| I wonder what video codecs will have hardware decoding support.
| Because having this able to support HTPC options with AV1 and
| h265 decoding would pair amazing to sticking this on the main TV
| for family gaming as well. I'd be shocked if it didn't have h265
| support but AV1 is not quite guaranteed at this point.
| PeaceTed wrote:
| This is the one area that Intel ARC absolutely excels at. If
| ARC doesn't survive long term, that might be its legacy in the
| same way Matrox pivoted to multi screen cards after the failure
| of Parhelia-512 GPU.
| risho wrote:
| the 8gb vram is very concerning to me. it claims to be 4k ready
| and 8gb of vram is nowhere near enough for 4k gaming natively.
| they say that this is offset by using fsr upscaling, which is
| fine, but then you need whatever amount of vram that is necessary
| for running the game at 1440p or 1080p and then additional vram
| for the fsr. this will be fine for casual games or even AA games,
| but I can't imagine AAA gaming on this thing being anything less
| than a disaster. hopefully i'm proven wrong.
| nicce wrote:
| > the 8gb vram is very concerning to me. it claims to be 4k
| ready and 8gb of vram is nowhere near enough for 4k gaming
| natively
|
| Depends on the game. I get 70fps with many games on 4k with old
| RX 5700 XT (e.g Path of Exile).
|
| Black Desert runs 70fps with FSR on 4k.
| koolala wrote:
| Does FSR use less ram since it is upscaled? Same ram
| requirements as 1440p?
| schmorptron wrote:
| They mention FSR specifically in the trailer, but this comes with
| RDNA3, meaning no FSR4 currently. Does this mean that the int8
| path for fsr4 is gonna become official to support this and the
| ps5 pro?
| outlore wrote:
| How does this compare to the Framework Desktop as a gaming Linux
| box? I notice only the RAM and storage is upgradable for the
| Steam Machine, but is there significant performance difference?
| sedatk wrote:
| I've been using my Steam Deck + Steam Dock to play Hades II on my
| TV using my Xbox controller. It's been a fantastic experience. I
| can't imagine how much better a device like Steam Machine and
| Steam's own controller would make it.
| andrepd wrote:
| > Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still your
| PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who
| are we to tell you how to use your computer?
|
| Isn't it just a relief to see a product announcement where this
| is a proudly announced selling point.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| Has anyone managed to scroll to the bottom? The page crashed on
| me if I scroll down too much. Is there a price point at the
| bottom?
| adroitboss wrote:
| The Ouya finally realized.
| Aeroi wrote:
| Something went wrong while displaying this content. Refresh Error
| Reference: Store_10230753_6f76874ef63b1abc Cannot read properties
| of undefined (reading 'video_webm_src')
| nullbyte808 wrote:
| it looks like an ugly mini fridge. Valve's UI aesthetics carried
| over to their hardware too.
| komali2 wrote:
| > We may be new but it's like we've known each other our whole
| lives: All Steam Hardware works great together, whether you're
| streaming or playing games across devices, including Steam Deck.
| And because Valve remains committed to an open PC ecosystem, we
| also play well with others (as in, your other devices).
|
| I am skeptical about this, especially streaming. I assume the
| steam box will be running steam os aka Linux with iirc kde and
| leveraging game scope.
|
| I have my steam deck docked to the living room tv and regularly
| try to stream from my gaming rig running manjaro and hyprland, to
| mixed results. Moonlight/sunshine has only ever crashed, and
| steam's native solution will often crash on the deck side
| immediately, leaving the game running on my PC. Or the game will
| play but no video will be sent. Or the controller input won't be
| sent.
|
| They still as of last week have a bug where native steam
| streaming simply doesn't work if you have the deck docked with
| Ethernet but also have wifi on. You gotta switch off wifi for it
| to work or unplug Ethernet.
|
| I've tried to keep a thread going listing options for streaming
| and the problems with each but valve locked it
| https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/11/382078096812...
| tjpnz wrote:
| The best part was that there was no mention of generative AI
| anywhere.
| theusus wrote:
| I doubt those specs are enough for running games at good graphics
| settings.
| dathinab wrote:
| I'm really wondering about the CPU+GPU.
|
| Like in some contexts it sounds like a single APU with both.
|
| But then it has normal and graphics RAM?
|
| So is it 2 SoC? Or one connected to two kinds of RAM? Does the
| GPU have direct access to the non graphic memory?
|
| The dedicated RAM makes it looks like 2 chips, but number of CU
| and similar make it look like an APU/integrated graphics???
|
| I mean even with FSR 8GiB of graphics RAM is a bit tight for
| 4k60fps. But on the other hand recent consoles (e.g. PS5 Pro) do
| promise similar things and have 16GiB for _both_ the CPU and GPU
| which in effect also means only roughly around 8GiB dedicated to
| the GPU. So it still is viable. And if the GPU could directly
| access the non graphic RAM then it could easily outperform a
| classical 8GiB RAM GPU????? But I guess it's probably nothing
| fancy like that.
|
| One good thing about it not having a AMD Max SoC or similar is
| that it probably will have console pricing. I mean for Valve
| Steam devices are about making sure Windows can't kill Steam and
| Steam staying relevant even if Windows decides to suicide
| themself with ads. So I would guess the price concept is similar
| to the Steam Deck, no loss, but also not a huge profit margin.
| BluSyn wrote:
| Steam machine so close to perfect, but 1x USBC and 1GB Ethernet
| are huge misses for a 2026 device. Also needs more VRAM. May be
| better to just do custom SFF build.
| WorldPeas wrote:
| Perhaps as a non-gamer I can tie my wagon to the hope that Valve
| will make a phone that doesn't call installing "side-loading"?
| Gabe seems to remember why computers exist.
| martin82 wrote:
| Seems like this is very under-spec'd in terms of RAM. I have my
| doubts that this will run modern games at acceptable performance.
| Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe wrote:
| > Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who
| are we to tell you how to use your computer?
|
| I'm so happy to read this
| rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote:
| That stood out to me too but my reaction was "whatever, just
| another promise that won't age well".
| Synthetic7346 wrote:
| This holds true for the Steam Deck, so I can't imagine why
| they would promise it and not follow through.
| gambiting wrote:
| I mean I'm sure it will be true for as long as Gabe is in
| charge, the moment he steps away I think all bets are off,
| depending on who takes over after him.
| serf wrote:
| >I'm so happy to read this
|
| it rings hollow from a company whose entire bedrock for
| existence is DRM procedures.
|
| does Steam still disallow accounts from playing more than one
| independently owned game at a time without special procedures?
| colordrops wrote:
| This is my number one beef with steam. It's such a big thorn
| on a rose.
| Prickle wrote:
| No. That restriction has been gone for a few years now.
|
| I can run rimworld and quasimorph via steam at the same time,
| as an example.
| babuskov wrote:
| Only if you do it on the same computer. The restriction is
| still there if you try to, for example, run one game on
| your PC and another on Steam Deck.
| Zekio wrote:
| technically you can easily bypass it by using two
| accounts and use family sharing with the extra account
| akimbostrawman wrote:
| Steam DRM is weak, non intrusive and optional so complain to
| the devs for enabling it. I rather take steam DRM than
| securerom or denuvo.
| close04 wrote:
| The problem is _for now_ more of principle. Any DRM means
| you depend on Valve /Steam to continue to legally play your
| purchased games. If Valve has a change of heart, or of
| leadership, or hits a financial rough patch they can easily
| become a rent seeking gatekeeper. That non-intrusive DRM is
| the thin line between perpetually accepting Valve's
| conditions or playing illegally. This isn't a Valve
| specific problem but they get a free pass today because of
| all the good things they've done and the good will they're
| continuously showing. If this ever runs out a lot of people
| will be _very_ disappointed.
|
| I'm not judging them "by comparison" because it's hard to
| look bad next to Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, etc. Just
| looking objectively at the situation, even if Valve was
| alone on the market.
| scrollaway wrote:
| "Not having drm" is also a "for now" thing. Everything is
| "for now". A person being good, a corporation being bad,
| everything can be appended with "for now". It's not an
| argument. You look at historical actions and willingness
| to change. Valve has been doing business this way
| forever.
| klez wrote:
| The difference is that "Not having DRM" means the games I
| bought with no DRM is still there once they enable it.
| For example, with GOG I download the games I buy and
| there's no way they can enable DRM on the copies I made.
|
| On the other hand, if the games already have DRM and it
| gets worse or for whatever reason Valve goes under and
| you can't play your games anymore, well... you can't play
| _any_ DRMed game without using whatever DRM mechanism
| they 'll choose next.
|
| In other words "No DRM -> DRM" and "DRM -> Worse DRM"
| have different outcomes.
|
| > Valve has been doing business this way forever.
|
| And Google's motto was "Don't be evil" and for a good
| chunk of their life they weren't. That worked out well,
| did it? I'm not saying Valve will do a 180 and squander
| all the good faith it acquired. I'm just saying it's not
| beyond the realm of possibility.
| akimbostrawman wrote:
| >And Google's motto was "Don't be evil"
|
| People here like to pretend google wasn't evil from the
| start.
|
| https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-
| in-ci...
|
| But you are right there is always the possibility they
| turn to shit. The advantage is that compared to other
| DRMs it is trivial to break even by yourself and all
| steam games are already freely available cracked so if
| they do just torrent them.
| gambiting wrote:
| >>For example, with GOG I download the games I buy and
| there's no way they can enable DRM on the copies I made.
|
| There is no way for Steam to enable DRM on a copy of a
| game you made after you downloaded it from Steam. It's a
| weird argument to use really - once you copied the data
| elsewhere neither platform can do anything with it.
| klez wrote:
| I'm not sure I'm understanding how Steam DRM works then.
| Does it phone home? Or is it tied to a particular device?
| How is this verified?
|
| In the first case they can just refuse to let you use
| your copy when you ask for permission.
| Orygin wrote:
| If the DRM is enabled, the game does a simple "Is the
| game available in the user's library?" and steams says
| yes or no.
|
| If the game didn't have DRM enabled, no check is made.
| Copy the game folder elsewhere, without steam install and
| it should launch.
|
| Devs can enable the DRM afterward, but your copy won't be
| locked.
|
| But even then, if valve goes bad guy, the DRM is simple
| enough to be broken, and there is no double check or
| something preventing you from playing (unlike Denuvo
| which encrypts the game and has multiple separate checks
| for the DRM).
| klez wrote:
| > If the DRM is enabled, the game does a simple "Is the
| game available in the user's library?" and steams says
| yes or no.
|
| So if one day Steam (more broadly, Valve) says "nope"
| you're locked out of your game, correct?
| Orygin wrote:
| Yes (that's the point of a DRM), but like I said, the DRM
| is easily broken. Some games can also still use steam
| features when cracked (like joining lobbies, inviting
| friends, etc), and it's the same "crack" for every game
| (not withstanding other DRM the game may have).
|
| With Valve, I'm more concerned of not being able to
| download the games if they go under, than the DRM on the
| games I have. Over time, the Steam DRM has also been more
| permissive than before, as I can now play my "family's"
| games and they can play mine.
| p_l wrote:
| Part of the apparently forgotten but huge amount of work
| that went into making digital storefront for games that
| _people trust to work_ was that Valve publicly talked
| about verifying things such as a procedure to globally
| strip DRM from all games, in case Steam was to cease
| operations.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| There is more than a single kind of Steam DRM (before
| even mentioning all the 3rd parties they allow) :
|
| https://www.gog.com/forum/general/how_to_run_steam_games_
| off...
| close04 wrote:
| There are a few DRM-free Steam games but most devs on
| Steam enable the DRM. This isn't Steam's fault but Steam
| is holding the reins of that access. It works great now,
| so smooth you can't tell there's DRM. But at the end of
| the day most of my collection is at the whims of Valve.
|
| I'm personally concerned about what happens when Gabe
| retires or shuffles off this mortal coil, and his
| replacement comes with a "fresh" revenue idea. He's a one
| of a kind visionary leader, it's not a sure thing that
| his successor is the same. I've been baited and switched
| so many times in the past few decades that it's hard to
| blindly trust any company for more than the very
| immediate future.
| akimbostrawman wrote:
| >I'm personally concerned about what happens when Gabe
| retires
|
| From the couple documentaries I have seen over the years
| it already seems like he is basically retired, only
| working on things he is interested in like the brain
| interface stuff. I think as long as valve stays a private
| company the enshitification will be limited.
| close04 wrote:
| > he is basically retired
|
| He owns Valve so semi-retired still means he at least
| keeps the spirit going. This can't last forever.
| close04 wrote:
| > "Not having drm" is also a "for now" thing
|
| What do you mean? My GOG offline installers should work
| fine with or without internet or GOG services for as long
| as the binaries can be executed. I can pass them on to my
| grandkids, if they'll ever be interested. You can own
| games, music, videos. You can do what you want with them,
| sell them, give them to family or friends. Any non-
| dystopian interpretation of DRM means you get to keep
| what you own. Changes don't apply to already owned
| things. When "renting" changes can apply retroactively to
| everything.
|
| > everything can be appended with "for now"
|
| Only if you're looking to be unreasonable and make any
| argument irrelevant. But we're trying to have a
| constructive conversation not shoot down everything with
| generic, nihilistic arguments.
|
| You wan to look at history but so selectively that it
| only supports your argument. Few companies stayed
| faithful to the customer without fault especially when
| the visionary leader and owner retired, or they hit hard
| times. The norm is for them to pull a bait and switch as
| soon as the profits looked too good to pass. When Gabe is
| out it could go either way, slowly or all at once.
| colordrops wrote:
| That has nothing to do with launching more than one steam
| game at once not being allowed.
| WithinReason wrote:
| Is going offline a special procedure?
| Neekerer wrote:
| You need to click twice
| clayhacks wrote:
| You can now have steam families and have two members play
| different games from the same library. Assuming you were
| using two machines you could just have a second account as a
| family member and play both. Or do you have a crazy beefy
| computer and are trying to run two different games on one
| machine?
| babuskov wrote:
| Not really. It still has a library level lock. What Steam
| Families has enabled is to play games from each other's
| libraries at the same time. For example, if my account has
| a game A, and your has a game B, I can play the game B
| while you play the game A. This used to be disabled before.
|
| You still cannot play a game C from my library while I play
| the game A from my own library.
|
| The only way to be able to play any game you want would be
| to create a separate account for each game.
| gpderetta wrote:
| You can go offline on one of the machines (but yes, it is
| very annoying).
| tete wrote:
| I agree. DRM sucks badly. I'd argue that it's a bit of a
| compliance thing though. Eg publisher lawyers saying DRM is
| needed, given that there doesn't seem to be much push from
| Steam for anything "draconian". At least it is for public
| broadcasters having online archives that also sometimes have
| DRM even where it isn't actually required (self-produced
| stuff).
|
| However, there is still a huge difference between buying
| hardware that literally "jails" you and force feeds you DRM
| and a system where even in the marketing says you can
| completely tear away all of that without jailbreaks, etc. and
| without stuff being super fiddly.
| babuskov wrote:
| > does Steam still disallow accounts from playing more than
| one independently owned game at a time without special
| procedures?
|
| Yes. I just tried launching one game on Steam Deck and
| another one on my desktop and it showed a message:
|
| > Error - Steam: You are logged in on another computer
| already playing Railbound. Launching Clutchtime(tm):
| Basketball Deckbuilder here will disconnect the other session
| from Steam.
| ragazzina wrote:
| This is outrageous.
| hoppp wrote:
| Yup. Sounds like its just a PC and not a locked down platform.
| Its easy for them and convenient for everyone.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Except that (I believe) "just a PC" was a bit offputting for
| a lot of people - when you buy a PC you can't just turn it on
| and play video games, especially not after Microsoft's
| shenanigans.
|
| I'm honestly surprised nobody else tried a "boot to game
| library" PC, but then, you also need the name and reputation
| for it. Microsoft could've done it, but they chose to make a
| console. Which is mostly a PC, but you need xbox games, a
| separate ecosystem.
| snvzz wrote:
| >Except that (I believe) "just a PC" was a bit offputting
| for a lot of people - when you buy a PC you can't just turn
| it on and play video games, especially not after
| Microsoft's shenanigans.
|
| Steam deck is "just a PC" as well, which can be turned on
| to immediately play video games.
|
| Thanks to its reputation, the masses will trust the Steam
| Machine to do this much.
|
| Valve know what they're doing.
| valesco wrote:
| That machine would be very different from my gaming PC
| however. I could use it exactly like a console, which is
| a different use case than a desktop PC.
| badsectoracula wrote:
| I have a Steam Deck. All you have to do to use it like a
| desktop PC is to connect a cheap hub with power delivery,
| HDMI and USB ports for keyboard and mouse, then boot into
| KDE Plasma which is a regular desktop environment.
|
| Honestly, my SD has seen more use as a stationary PC than
| a handheld :-P
| xxs wrote:
| but it has 'steam' in the name. So the target is the steam
| audience already.
|
| >Microsoft could've done it, but they chose to make a
| console.
|
| Missed the one, they did try with the rebranding of 'xbox'
| ljm wrote:
| That rebranding and Microsoft's abjectly _terrible_
| product naming convention essentially killed the Xbox.
| What the absolute fuck were they smoking when they went
| from Xbox, to Xbox 360, to Xbox One, to Xbox One X, to
| Xbox Series S and X? Like anybody wants an enterprise
| gaming console.
|
| Absolutely bonkers considering how strong they came in
| with the first Xbox, Halo, and Xbox Live.
|
| And the rationale that they couldn't go from Xbox to Xbox
| 3 because of the PS3 is abject bullshit. They skipped
| Windows 9, after all.
| ZaoLahma wrote:
| Nintendo almost managed to do the same to their own
| gaming machines with the absolutely insanely inadequate
| Nintendo Wii / Wii U decision making.
|
| As an engineer and a consumer / customer, I simply cannot
| understand why there's a need to complicate things.
|
| You have a Thing, right? It sells, right? You develop the
| next Thing? Great! Call it Thing 2. Instant success.
| MrGilbert wrote:
| I wonder why car manufacturers don't operate like that.
| They might add a number to the model (e.g. "Golf IV"),
| but it will always be advertised as "The new VW Golf".
|
| What would've happened if Nintendo simply would've
| advertised "The new Nintendo Switch"?
|
| Never thought about that, but now it's an interesting
| thought experiment.
| simondotau wrote:
| In the world of cars, industrial design _is_ the version
| number. Beyond that, VW just wants to sell their latest
| Golf to whomever is buying a new hatchback today. End of
| strategy.
|
| Numbering helps sell electronics because it makes it
| clear that your old phone/console is old and "needs"
| upgrading. It's also critical for selling software
| exclusive to a certain hardware generation.
| vel0city wrote:
| They did that with the "New Nintendo 3DS". It was
| confusing as hell.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Nintendo_3DS
|
| Things are going wrong when you have a model name like
| "New Nintendo 2DS XL" to describe a product IMO.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Nintendo_2DS_XL
| prmoustache wrote:
| Many people replace their car on a regular basis because
| it is considered a wear item.
|
| With computer/console, you have to pretend the devicethey
| are still enjoying is obsolete to invent a need to
| replace it
| simondotau wrote:
| Imagine how much more money Sony could have made if they
| called their latest game console Playstation O
| ZaoLahma wrote:
| Funny that you used that symbol, as it would have been a
| fantastically bad choice for clarity in product naming.
| I'm going to assume that you're German speaking and think
| of it as meaning "average".
|
| In my head it would have been the "Playstation Island",
| while for most of the world it would probably have been
| the "Playstation Empty Set".
| simondotau wrote:
| Not as fantastically bad as "Xbox One" though.
| tracker1 wrote:
| You mean the X-bone?
| gambiting wrote:
| >> when you buy a PC you can't just turn it on and play
| video games, especially not after Microsoft's shenanigans.
|
| In like, what way? You can "just" boot up a new Windows PC,
| install some games and play them straight away. Do you mean
| the fact that you now have to log into a Microsoft account
| first? Because if yes - SteamOS also requires you to log in
| before you can use it.
| mapcars wrote:
| >nobody else tried a "boot to game library" PC,
|
| Since Valve owns the library it makes sense that people
| will trust their solution and it has more chance for
| succcess
| pjc50 wrote:
| > I'm honestly surprised nobody else tried a "boot to game
| library" PC
|
| Microsoft _used to_ have Windows Media Centre, which was a
| version of Windows designed for HTPC use that booted
| straight to the media centre control screen. The last
| version of that was in Windows 7.
|
| It is actually possible to replace the desktop in Windows,
| window management (but not chrome, that's part of Aero
| and/or individual "owner draw" applications), Explorer etc.
| Nobody's really bothered with that.
|
| Microsoft are just too used to not having to compete, so
| they don't provide lots of variant SKUs for different uses.
| Even "point of sale" and LTS are somewhat neglected.
| imbnwa wrote:
| This. Zero reason I should have to download Playnite for
| a unified gaming frontend
| pipes wrote:
| I think valve are the only players in a position to do
| this. They can probably ship this new hardware at a loss
| and make the money back through steam game purchases. Much
| like console manufacturers.
| yencabulator wrote:
| LTT reports Valve said it'll be priced "like a PC, not
| like a console" as in not expect to be subsidized by game
| purchases.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3FkuZNSGkw
| pipes wrote:
| I see :)
| BossingAround wrote:
| I mean, even Valve has tried it in the past, and it was a
| failure. Look up Steam Machines from 2010s. I consider the
| success of Steam Deck (thanks to flawless execution this
| time) as almost a minor miracle.
| p_l wrote:
| The big difference is the extra years of work that went
| into Proton and Steam-on-Linux ecosystem, including
| controller support etc.
| Rooster61 wrote:
| A failure they fully admit they learned from. Proton was
| the outcome of that failure, and I'd say they are well
| poised to make a bigger dent this time.
| bakies wrote:
| they've done a ton of engineering to make this happen. they
| implemented the necessary interfaces in steam, _they
| developed proton_ to avoid windows, worked with hardware to
| get console features like wake from controller connect, and
| custom hardware we see here.
| Zambyte wrote:
| > I'm honestly surprised nobody else tried a "boot to game
| library" PC
|
| Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Atari, Sega...
|
| They intentionally choose to brand their personal computers
| poorly to coerce their customers into giving up control of
| their computers. That doesn't make their computers any less
| personal, unless they are using it to serve other people.
| jerojero wrote:
| Valve had to make an entire operating system to make this
| the case for steam games.
|
| A lot of these capabilities would rely on windows,
| sleeping and resuming the system thats entirely the
| purview of the OS.
|
| And Microsoft just doesn't care.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| Microsoft's core competency is a general purpose
| operating system that can be used for anything and work
| with infinite combinations of hardware.
|
| The fact that you can almost, sort of use a Windows PC as
| a gaming console, even with all the headaches that come
| with it, is something of a miracle.
| Zambyte wrote:
| Microsoft had to make an entire operating system to make
| this the case for running Xbox games. Sony had to make an
| entire operating system to make this work for PlayStation
| games. I don't really know why that's significant.
| scns wrote:
| > Valve had to make an entire operating system
|
| A Linux distribution. Which is often done by one person.
| Zero snark intended.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| The goal with consoles is not to force people to give up
| control of their computers, it's to create the best
| possible gaming appliance, which consoles succeed at.
| Zambyte wrote:
| What is the difference between an appliance and a
| computer?
| nsxwolf wrote:
| The easiest way to see the difference is to take a
| desktop PC, plug it into your living room TV set, and try
| to play games on it.
| Zambyte wrote:
| Can you tell me what the difference is?
| imbnwa wrote:
| Uh
|
| * two major platforms on PC and one of em doesn't sport a
| Big Picture mode
|
| * the other store does nasty tricks like never terminate
| a game process completely when you launch their titles
| through the other platform (very obvious w/ Alan Wake 2)
|
| * other store's titles doesn't have this problem if I use
| Playnite as the TV frontend, but Playnite is a giant
| security vulnerability waiting to happen cause you need
| 3rd party plugins to emulate Steam Big Picture
|
| * entire swatches of games that act funny with Steam
| Input or have incomplete configurations and I don't feel
| like figuring that out just to play Backrooms
|
| * Windows window management when using Steam Big Picture
| w/ controller is bad, b/c lots of desktop things will
| steal focus (hello Rockstar Games and EA)
|
| * oh yeah, mandatory LAUNCHERS
|
| * Try to play Mass Effect Legendary Edition on a TV with
| a controller; no really, try
|
| * don't even get me started on OOTB auto HDR config for
| almost any random TV with PS5 vs dicking around with the
| NVIDIA control panel
|
| * the Steam store navigation w/ controller is baaaaad in
| 2025, many times you won't be able to move or select
| certain things.
|
| This is an incomplete list. It actually doesn't matter
| whether you have a point-by-point refutation, no non-
| technical person wants to deal with any of this. They
| want machine to take care of everything. _That's what an
| appliance is_
|
| (Edit: formatting)
| nsxwolf wrote:
| Thank you for writing all of this so that I didn't have
| to.
|
| And the exciting thing is I'm not even aware of many of
| those because I don't play the same games and use
| different peripherals. If I listed out all my issues many
| would be unique to me. There are an infinity of issues
| with using a PC as a console.
|
| A random one - audio outputs and inputs randomly locking
| to something you aren't actually using. Between virtual
| devices for streaming apps you didn't know you installed,
| weird devices hidden in USB peripherals, outputs on
| various TVs and monitors - my sound rarely "just works"
| and I have to spend a lot of time in the desktop fiddling
| around with the system tray.
| currency wrote:
| Speaking of electronic devices, an appliance is generally
| locked down, and the manufacturer limits the number of
| use cases. You end up with something that is not a
| general-purpose computer, even though many use the same
| hardware as a computer would.
|
| A game console is a classic appliance. You turn it on and
| see your current game running or a selection of games to
| play and you can start playing a game with _zero_
| intermediate steps.
|
| The Steam Deck and Steam Box are designed as appliance
| emulators--they boot and by default operate in appliance
| mode. They can provide the same exact experience as a
| console if you use them as designed. They are also
| general-purpose computers, if you wish to step out of
| console mode.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| This is a good comment, I don't understand the downvotes.
|
| Anything that makes the PC gaming experience more like a
| console is good. This is the first gaming PC that I could
| actually justify putting in the living room.
| syx wrote:
| I'm sure someone will install OpenStep and recreate a NeXT
| computer 2.0
| xattt wrote:
| It just won't torch the same (1).
|
| (1) https://simson.net/ref/1993/cubefire.html
| masfoobar wrote:
| GNUStep is still going.
| actionfromafar wrote:
| If a single GNU steps in the forest, does it make a sound?
| p_l wrote:
| Install Previous and boot into it, voila ;)
| igravious wrote:
| I mean the Steam Machine's got a replaceable front cover so
| why not? :)
|
| https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co80944.
| ..
|
| https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine
| speed_spread wrote:
| Or stack eight of them and build a Connection Machine
| HexPhantom wrote:
| Props to Valve for not treating freedom like a "pro" feature
| tete wrote:
| Fingers crossed for a smartphone next. So sick of that force
| fed walled garden crap from Apple and Google.
|
| Might also help to slow down enshittification by a bit if there
| was a popular alternative. Maybe something like Waydroid could
| even ease with transition.
| davedx wrote:
| SteamPhone sounds...... metal as fuck. I'd buy it for the
| name alone
| trevorhinesley wrote:
| Signed in just to upvote this. Amen homie
| carlos_rpn wrote:
| Damn, a smartphone made by Valve would make me splurge for
| more than middle-low end, for the respect they give us alone.
|
| It just needs my banking apps, and and I'll be happy to pay
| for it.
| spacebanana7 wrote:
| It's actually not that impossible, given how the DRM
| ecosystem trusts steam I could imagine banking apps doing
| the same.
|
| Some banks might even be up for putting children's banking
| apps on the steam deck to start with.
| surajrmal wrote:
| Starting an application ecosystem is not trivial. Banks
| aren't going to rush to write a new app for an OS with
| such a small market presence. Banks also like and guide
| security features they rely on in phone apps.
| spacebanana7 wrote:
| Yeah it would still be difficult. But I could imagine
| that if steam offered to give a few million to cover
| development costs and gave projections of 20k new
| customers, they might be able to convince one of the not
| very profitable children's fintech banks to develop for
| the platform.
| jerojero wrote:
| Given that the frame runs steamOS on ARM hardware, I could
| see something like a phone in the future.
|
| But also, phones don't seem to be the best hardware to play
| PC games which is kinda the whole deal.
|
| I maybe would see first a smaller ARM based device (like
| those retro consoles).
| tracker1 wrote:
| Or.. just a better experience for mobile games, if they
| have porting tools.
| redbell wrote:
| Was going to post, exactly, this statement but found it is
| already spotted!
|
| I just hope Google & Apple read, understand and follow this.
| lentil_soup wrote:
| it's so refreshing to read something like that from a big
| company, it's weird, but felt like there's still hope? that
| there's people in power that still care? strange feeling, still
| curious about it
|
| the last few in years in tech have been depressing, like no one
| cares to make something that's actually better for the
| consumer, it's made me into a cynic and I hate it
| Quothling wrote:
| Valve is a private company. I'm not going to say that every
| public company lacks a product focus, but I think there is a
| danger in public companies where it becomes natural to
| promote MBA's over product and even sales roles. I know MBA
| is treated with hatred here, but I don't think they are
| necessarily bad or evil, but I do think they have an
| advantage in obtaining power naturally because it's basically
| their profession and espesially product people are often bad
| at corporate politics.
|
| In many public companies there is the added level of investor
| interest, and it can often be a challenge for the C levels to
| remain in power during periods of slow or even negative
| growth. Challenges that companies like Valve simply don't
| have as long as the CEO is fine with it. On the flip side,
| I'm happy with my own stock portfolio so there is that.
| graemep wrote:
| The problem is that public companies have different
| incentives. They take a more short term views.
|
| Their shareholders are not in it for the long term.
| Investment managers tend to look at anything more than two
| years as "long term", and they are conscious of their
| position in annual league tables.
|
| Even private equity and venture capital are usually going
| to be thinking about the value at which they can exit
| reasonably soon.
|
| The management of the company will be thinking about
| bonuses and options they get between now and when they move
| to the next job.
|
| A private company can often take the view that what really
| matters is how much they will be making in five or ten
| years time. Maybe even how much it will be worth when the
| current shareholder's kids inherit it. The management are
| often either owners, or are closely monitored by the
| owners.
| udev4096 wrote:
| MBAs need to read this: https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyl
| l/update/2025/10/15/pathe...
|
| tldr; GTFO!
| automatic6131 wrote:
| >that there's people in power that still care? strange
| feeling, still curious about it
|
| One day, Gabe Newell will die. Maybe his racer son will
| inherit the job, or maybe he'll delegate the job. Maybe this
| new CEO will take Valve public to ensure they get a centi-
| million dollar payout.
|
| Then all the good times end. This is the halcyon for Steam
| customers.
| gpderetta wrote:
| All good things must come to an end.
| Vegenoid wrote:
| Bad ones too, though.
| chucksmash wrote:
| centi = 10^-2
| igravious wrote:
| yeah, that's what was meant, they'll have 10k pay-out day
| :)
| qiine wrote:
| And just like that, valve will keep winning spectacularly.
| lazyfanatic42 wrote:
| Valve respects its customers. It is so insane that this isn't a
| norm; what a world we would be in if all companies did so.
| godzillabrennus wrote:
| Don't sugarcoat it. Valve has to make sure this is advertised
| as a PC to keep the licensing good on the games you've bought
| and that they are allowed to sell. Microsoft, Nintendo, and
| Sony have closed ecosystems with their consoles. Well,
| Microsoft seems to be throwing in the towel on consoles.
| justin66 wrote:
| > keep the licensing good
|
| That's an imaginary issue.
| jmkni wrote:
| > Well, Microsoft seems to be throwing in the towel on
| consoles.
|
| Can you expand on this? I'm not a massive gamer, I thought
| xbox was doing well?
| mlacks wrote:
| Halo was announced for PS5 recently
| LollipopYakuza wrote:
| Also they state that the console will remain the
| centerpiece, they want to make Xbox a "platform" to reuse
| their own term. It becomes an ecosystem rather than a
| hardware product. They idea is that as long as you have a
| gamepass, you can play on whatever you want - except
| macOS and Linux...
| tekchip wrote:
| I think they think that's converted by streaming
| unfortunately.
| littlestymaar wrote:
| > They idea is that as long as you have a gamepass
|
| Didn't they just blow the remaining goodwill they had by
| increasing the gamepads price by 50% overnight?
| thoroughburro wrote:
| > I thought xbox was doing well?
|
| It very much isn't.
| kattagarian wrote:
| >I thought xbox was doing well?
|
| Microsoft lost the console wars. Their new generation
| (Series S & X) sold almost 1/4 of what PS5 did because
| they basically don't have any exclusive game that you can
| only play in their hardware. Microsoft invested heavily
| in their Gamepass subscription (that has more than 35
| million users) and they believe that the future is on PC.
| The newest xbox hardware, a handheld made by Asus, is a
| PC running windows. The next generation of xbox hardware
| that will compete with the PS6 will also very likely be a
| PC. The xbox console is dead.
| xeonmc wrote:
| "I already have an Xbox One from 2013, why would I buy an
| extra X or S version?"
|
| "Oh, there's a PlayStation 5 now? Man I gotta upgrade
| from my PS4!"
|
| Microsoft evidently did not learn from the Wii U.
| marricks wrote:
| Didn't Xbox pivot to be an entertainment system a couple
| generations ago and flop compared to PlayStation?
| fullstop wrote:
| It probably didn't help that they removed all of those
| features over time.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| You mean compared to the PS3, one of the strong points of
| which was also having a Blu-Ray drive ?
| philwelch wrote:
| This was the Xbone/PS4 generation.
|
| The Blu-Ray drive is basically no added cost since the
| games were already distributed on optical disks, it's
| like how the PS2 was one of the most popular DVD players.
| The problem with the Xbone was that, at least judging on
| their marketing at the time, Microsoft was far more
| focused on broadening the scope of the device beyond
| games while Sony stayed focused on gaming. That's why I
| bought a PS4 despite previously using an Xbox 360.
| marricks wrote:
| Because they're not owned by private equity/publicly traded.
| If that ever happens the "let's squeeze this for every dime
| it's worth" will happen.
|
| That's really the saddest thing about capitalism, if
| everything around us wasn't getting enshittified in the exact
| same way at least the future would be more alluring.
| neya wrote:
| Gamers are a passionate bunch. Screwing around with them is a
| losing game that no one has historically ever won. And also
| because a lot of their competitors fucked up to pave the road
| for them (Think Sony's PS fiasco, Microsoft's X-Box
| clusterfuck from which they're yet to recover from, a decade
| later). Valve has gotten alot of billion dollar lessons in
| here that Valve got for free.
| Powdering7082 wrote:
| Except that you don't own the things you buy on steam
| 3acctforcom wrote:
| Gabe is literally practising Noblesse Oblige, which is really
| funny but really shows that our billionare society is really
| just a reduction to old aristocracy. He's just the good Duke,
| whereas most Dukes are horrible, horrible people.
| bigyabai wrote:
| Noblesse oblige exists because of a moral economy. You
| _can_ be a horrible Duke, because there 's no real reward
| for being the good one.
|
| This is not that - Steam has to compete on the free market,
| there _is_ a reward for making the product everyone else
| refuses to make. In a post-Deck world, it 's hard to
| believe that moral obligation plays a bigger role than the
| overall hatred of Windows for seamless gaming experiences.
| YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
| >> Valve respects its customers.
|
| That's the same Valve that doesn't let me play the games I
| paid it for unless they are running on its platform? That's
| how it "respects" me?
| ozten wrote:
| Name a game distribution platform that doesn't do this. It
| will be a toy example like a zip file purchased off of
| itch.io or something.
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| Me, too. I've been meaning to upgrade my HTPC for years, but I
| kept holding off because I had hoped that NVIDIA would release
| a new ShieldTV (the last one used the same chip as the Switch,
| so the community had quietly hoped that the Switch 2's release
| would coincide with a new Shield--no such luck). Assuming the
| Steam Machine is reasonably priced, I could easily see it also
| becoming my new Kodi box when not gaming on it.
| tracker1 wrote:
| If the Steam Machine sufficiently supports the DRM required
| for apps from Netflix, AppleTV, etc, it would definitely be a
| good option for that. As it is, my SO still likes the apps,
| though the actual subscriptions have been rotating a bit.
| Rohansi wrote:
| Have you considered dear
| 1-6 wrote:
| Steam is starting to become the 'Apple Computer Inc.' everyone
| wants.
| psyclobe wrote:
| They're gonna sell millions
| kreddor wrote:
| I pretty much already use my Steam Deck as my main Desktop
| computer at home (I have a laptop for work). If I wanted to
| upgrade, this would be a no-brainer.
| utopiah wrote:
| Can't wait for benchmarks. I have a Corsair One running
| exclusively Linux but it is getting old. I wouldn't mind
| replacing it with something even more compact and quiet.
| GaryBluto wrote:
| There goes the XBOX. Microsoft have been letting their consumer
| products rot for a while now and they're finally going to start
| feeling the consequences.
| guidopallemans wrote:
| The original steam deck was already exactly the product
| Microsoft should have made. There is now a whole class of
| similar (but generally more expensive) windows-powered devices.
| If Microsoft would have made the "XBOX Deck" they could have
| sold 10 times the numbers Steam Deck did.
|
| But indeed, I'd think Phil Spencer's days are numbered now.
| tiotempestade wrote:
| Good bye M$
| haritha-j wrote:
| I know everyone says such good things about the steam deck, but
| my personal experience hasn't been great. Steam games are the
| best case scenario, but even those often require hunting down the
| best version of proton and doesnt work out of the box. why cant
| steam auto default to the version that works with the game?
| Getting discord running properly often involves switching to
| desktop mode, and then its hard to play handheld. if i connect a
| display in handheld mode i cant increase the resolution to match
| my monitor. and then we get to 3rd party stores, requiring all
| kinds of hoops, and once you get it working and you come back to
| a game after a couple of months, its broken again. Installing
| ISOs requires even more painful work (tbf thats not an intended
| use case i guess). Disclaimer: my use of the steam deck has been
| as a fairly non technical user. For me the whole point of getting
| it was a slightly console like experience, so I wasn't willing to
| hack into it too much.
| calcifer wrote:
| > For me the whole point of getting it was a slightly console
| like experience
|
| You say this, but talk about the difficulty of 3rd party stores
| and installing ISOs. A console like experience means using
| Steam alone, and not even considering desktop mode.
| vkazanov wrote:
| Well, you have quite an advanced use case.
|
| Remember that the majority of users doesn't use anything other
| than the default steam store ui. This case works like charm. I
| use with my tv, or standalone, my 10 year old uses, and we love
| it. I just make sure to play games announced as supported.
|
| With custom things, desktop mode, non-steam software
| installation it's a typical customization story. It is amazing
| that you can do it at all but nobody will be supporting you on
| this journey.
| haritha-j wrote:
| That's fair. Perhaps I was a bit too spoilt by windows.
| UK-Al05 wrote:
| The whole point is to just use the steam UI only, and steam
| deck verified games. Anything else and your on your own.
|
| The difference is they let you if you want to.
| tropicalfruit wrote:
| i hope they can put some price pressure on other small form
| factor gaming pc
|
| the asus rog nuc is extortionate pricing, and beelink are
| constantly raising their prices too now
| sylware wrote:
| Huge streamers/youtubers were already listing games to test on
| the steam machine... which I already know they do not work on
| valve proton... (and the lack of official and legally required
| technical support will show on the medium/long run since
| proton/wine is not reliable in time).
|
| This may backfire if valve does not come clean with this
| technical support.
| masfoobar wrote:
| I've installed Debian Linux recently, and it was EASY installing
| Steam and Heroic Games Launcher. Testing Rocket League and
| Thief:TDM and worked really well.
|
| I also purchased a Steam Link and Controller a few years ago.
| Still works like a charm.
|
| I was planning to build my own PC in 2026 to be the new Family
| gaming system. I don't plan to purchase game consoles, now.
| However, after seeing the new steam machine, I will wait to see
| the costs before I make a decision.
|
| Seems like the Steam Machine.. if powerful enough and decent
| price.. can still be used as a PC. Otherwise, I will just build
| my own and stick Debian on it.
|
| Be interesting to see how the Steam Machine does against XBox and
| PS. Seems like Microsoft may lose this battle unless they do
| something different with their next-gen. By different I mean that
| gets people excited.
|
| Honestly, I think this is a good thing for Games Consoles. Lets
| me honest.. Games Consoles have not been proper "Games Consoles"
| since the GameCube, PS2 and first XBox. Since then, they are been
| more PCs than anything.
| masfoobar wrote:
| I hope someone out there creates a "GabeCube" boot up screen,
| based on the Game Cube animation.
| YellowTech wrote:
| Do you mean like this?
| https://steamdeckrepo.com/post/6YWNE/valve_gabecube
| masfoobar wrote:
| Ha!
| unpopularopp wrote:
| If they want to capture the console audience its better be priced
| like one too and not prevent me from playing multiplayer games
| due to Linux and anti cheat software not playing nice
|
| Anything above $600 is DOA and that's with accepting the fact
| that the most popular games will be not available on the platform
| lawn wrote:
| > not prevent me from playing multiplayer games due to Linux
| and anti cheat software not playing nice
|
| All other consoles are much more limited in terms of games
| available you know?
| vulk wrote:
| This will be a great reality check for consoles. If they don't
| drop their atrocious fees for online play I can't see what is the
| incentive to purchase PS/XBox in 2026.
| HexPhantom wrote:
| A little time capsule from when Valve was still trying to drag
| desktop Linux into mainstream gaming
| tete wrote:
| Wow the whole line-up being "just linux computers" that is
| compatible with everything else really makes me wish they come
| out with a Steam smartphone instead of the walled garden crap we
| are being force fed from Apple and Google.
| tonyhart7 wrote:
| valve shouldering entire linux desktop growth for 10+ years
| bytesandbits wrote:
| Damn. Windows might lose!
| alentred wrote:
| I really hope for Steam that the timing is right. Given the
| rising GPU, RAM and now storage prices, I hope they secured their
| supply chain with a fixed price for components, and at least
| first batches are going to be affordable enough for the public.
| nathias wrote:
| great news both for linux and gaming
| savolai wrote:
| Apparently js on both this and Frame page causes the webpage to
| die (entire page grey area) when scrolling on iphone with link
| opened from steam app.
| davedx wrote:
| Wait. Will I be able to play Subnautica 2 on this?
| i-chuks wrote:
| Two very important questions are: How long before the steam
| machine gets obsolete? Would it be hardware upgradeable?
| i-chuks wrote:
| So, I watched an IGN video on youTube and the answer is no. You
| can only upgrade the SSD the rest of the components are
| soldered. The steam machine is intended to be kept simple and
| for the living room, so while you can tinker with software, DIY
| hardware tinkering is very limited.
|
| https://youtu.be/xb3a3EKwhGQ?si=qeqBJ5Giwo7IqzxV
| lawn wrote:
| I swear I saw a video claiming that you could also upgrade
| the RAM, but now I'm not sure.
| nottorp wrote:
| > No giant brick! Steam Machine's power supply is built right in.
|
| Great! Extremely great!
| gigatexal wrote:
| Any idea on cost? Wish the GPU had 12 or 16GB of ram but this is
| serviceable.
|
| I think I'll wait for the gen2.
| lifty wrote:
| 2034
| aforty wrote:
| Half-Life 3 when?
| mannanj wrote:
| I couldn't see a purchase link anywhere. Too lazy to check, they
| potentially lost a customer due to this UI.
| reciprocity wrote:
| There is no purchase link. It's an announcement for an early
| 2026 release date.
|
| https://store.steampowered.com/sale/hardware
| chezelenkoooo wrote:
| I knew I was building a library if unplayed games for a reason.
| omega3 wrote:
| The non upgrade-ability of the components is a deal breaker for
| me considering the estimated cost (800eur?). I'm not sure who the
| target market for this is, the pc games already have pcs they can
| upgrade.
|
| What would make the console players consider paying effectively
| twice (compared to the current ps5 prices) to play the same
| games? I think such a device would have to be priced
| competitively with ps5 for me to even consider having a separate
| gaming device/replace the console in the living room.
| drexlspivey wrote:
| Who estimated the cost at 800eur?
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| Who quoted 800eur? This should be way closer to $500usd or PS5
| pricing. Plus the ram and storage is upgradable.
| omega3 wrote:
| It's of course estimated, based on this:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903771 Checked the
| component prices and it's in this ballpark, certainly not at
| base ps5 prices.
| nektro wrote:
| another slam dunk from Valve
| DiskoHexyl wrote:
| SteamOS has way more appeal to gamers in 2025 than it could have
| had in, say, 2004.
|
| On the surface the lack of popular multiplayer titles that
| require a kernel-level anti-cheat is a heavy downside, but gaming
| is extremely fragmented these days. In 2004 everyone, save for
| the casual players, at least tried DOOM3 and Half-Life 2. In 2025
| Fortnight has an all-time peak of 12M players, but at the same
| time there are many millions of Minecraft players who never even
| launched Fortnight. And DOTA2/LOL players who've never launched
| either of those 2. And then you see a bunch of indie titles
| selling tens of millions of copies, and their player base is
| completely unrelated to those above.
|
| The days of the gaming mono-culture are long gone, and inability
| to play a limited number of Game As A Service titles is not as
| severe of a handicap anymore, especially since people who play
| those kinds of games aren't typically as interested in any other
| titles. For better or worse, peer pressure doesn't work as heavy
| these days, as it used to
| lazyfanatic42 wrote:
| What made you go with comparing things to 2004? Seems random,
| there is so much that is different in the Linux ecosystem
| generally, Valve just put the situation on a rocket and shot it
| into space.
|
| Point taken, it really is marvelous! When I was running Gentoo
| Linux, and Windows 2000 back then I never thought things would
| be so portable and simple!
| NooneAtAll3 wrote:
| > What made you go with comparing things to 2004?
|
| I guess HL2 release?
|
| Steam launch was late 2003 and first non-valve Steam games
| appeared in 2005, so "thereabouts" can be a reason as well
| for "Valve era"
| surajrmal wrote:
| I was a heavy gamer in 2004 and never played HL2 or DOOM3. I
| know many such people. I think games like Mario party, smash,
| and Mario kart were far more ubiquitous.
| shawn-butler wrote:
| Your definition of heavy gamer I think differs from the norm
| if your main plays were Mario kart, et al.
| rkozik1989 wrote:
| Yeah, I am pretty sure most heavy gamers in 2004 were knee
| deep into MMOs and FPSes.
| TheTon wrote:
| There isn't a single one way to be a dedicated gamer.
|
| Inevitably everyone has finite time and access to games
| and has to make choices about what to play.
|
| As a Mac guy, I always found the game platform wars weird
| because even on the weakest gaming platform there are
| still more good games than anyone can individually play.
| And even on Windows, probably the strongest gaming
| platform, you're still missing out on many significant
| games.
|
| I totally understand buying a system because it has some
| game that you absolutely must play. I bought an OG Xbox
| back in the day because I thought I desperately needed to
| play Deus Ex: Invisible War when it didn't come to Mac.
| Got burned on that one, but at least I had Halo before it
| came to Mac (and was in the end much better there than on
| Xbox due to expanded online multiplayer).
|
| What I actually don't get is folks who have to play the
| hot game of the week every week. Just seems expensive in
| terms of money, time, and space for different systems,
| and you only scratch the surface of the games.
| SmallDeadGuy wrote:
| That just sounds like all you had access to was a Nintendo
| console, not necessarily due to your own choice. I missed out
| on all the early zelda, metroid, and mario home console games
| because we were a playstation family until the wii.
| nwsm wrote:
| Saying "everyone" played those two titles is still
| incorrect. Personally I think the landscape was more
| fragmented then.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Your comparisons are a mess.
|
| "Casual player" is very poorly defined.
|
| You are comparing concurrent players with unique players (IIRC
| half a billion for Fortnite ?)
|
| "Many millions" hardly means anything when you use it to cover
| 3 orders of magnitude.
|
| And so on and so forth...
| MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
| > the lack of popular multiplayer titles that require a kernel-
| level anti-cheat is a heavy downside
|
| It's a downside if all you want to do is play those games. But
| it's an upside if you're hoping they someday ditch all that
| nonsense. This puts more pressure on those publishers.
| rtkwe wrote:
| More likely is that some linux distro like SteamOS gets a
| large enough install base that it actually makes sense as a
| target and these big platforms make their anti-cheat work on
| at least that distro. As unfortunate as it is not having a
| very strong anti-cheat or a system like Valve's VAC ban to
| detect and lock cheaters out leads to really shitty online
| experiences in public lobbies for PVP games.
| Hikikomori wrote:
| Some anti cheat works with proton if the game dev allows
| it. But anti cheats are generally not effective on Linux
| because you can just load your cheat as a kernel driver.
| morshu9001 wrote:
| True. Things were better the old way with so many kids at least
| having a video game like Melee or CoD or Halo in common. I
| would've liked those to run on Linux, but that doesn't matter
| so much.
| spookie wrote:
| Eh multiplayer games are doomed.
|
| Computer vision based cheats using an external machine that
| records the game's final rendered frames, process them with
| specialized YOLO models, and control "mices" and "controllers"
| to aim for you already exist.
|
| If the aim for kernel level anti-cheats was to combat cheating,
| they have failed and are completely worthless.
| haolez wrote:
| Does anyone know if the resolution is good enough to use it for
| work? I.e., e-mails, programming, etc
|
| EDIT: I mean the VR googles.
| jerojero wrote:
| Its a linux computer, if you connect it to a 4k monitor you
| could use that.
|
| The one issue I see is that it only has one HDMI port, so you
| couldn't connect two screens without a dongle.
|
| But for all intents and purposes, its a prebuilt pc in a tiny
| form factor.
| haolez wrote:
| I mean the VR googles. Will edit my comment.
| dabluecaboose wrote:
| > The one issue I see is that it only has one HDMI port, so
| you couldn't connect two screens without a dongle.
|
| Stretching the definition of a "dongle", but the page does
| specifically say "Ready for all the peripherals and monitors
| you can throw at it" so I'm assuming some amount of USB-C
| daisychaining is supported
| sentrysapper wrote:
| oh boy here comes the GabeCube
| QuiEgo wrote:
| This kind of inspires me. I have an i5-1340p NUC I'm not using
| for anything at the moment, I wonder if I could press it into
| service as a sort of "dry run" for this type of experience
| noisy_boy wrote:
| Seems to me that there is a fourth platform emerging: Windows,
| Mac, Linux and now, Steam.
|
| PS: I know its custom Arch Linux under the hood, I'm talking
| about mass market nomenclature.
| rollcat wrote:
| The main problem with Linux as a platform, is that it isn't.
| Linux is a kernel, with a platform built on top of it. And
| that's the real issue: Gnome and KDE are separate platforms;
| but so are Ubuntu and Fedora; but so are Flatpak and Snap; etc.
| Depending on your application, you will have to support several
| combinations.
|
| For gaming, Steam OS fixes that. You _can 't_ target "Linux",
| but you _can_ target Steam on Linux.
| dustbunny wrote:
| I priced out an upgrade for my machine: Radeon 9070XT,
| motherboard and PSU, coming in at roughly $1000. Part of me knows
| I should probably just buy this instead.
| dustbunny wrote:
| For everyone talking about anti cheat, you can just install
| windows then, right?
| tdhz77 wrote:
| Just waiting on a steam pass and I'll never buy a console again.
| saghm wrote:
| My theory for a bit now has been that Valve is playing the long
| game in trying to make SteamOS a mainstay gaming platform as an
| alternative to Windows, and that the hardware products are
| essentially a way of breaking into that market. Even a few years
| ago, the idea of a custom Linux distro based on Arch Linux with
| both a built-in full desktop mode and a lower-powered gaming mode
| that you could switch between on a handheld device would have
| sounded kind of crazy, but now we're at the point where it's
| fully supported on more than one vendor's hardware. This seems
| like it could be a similar play in the traditional desktop space;
| if they can prove that the concept is viable, maybe other vendors
| will come out with similar products that come with SteamOS by
| default. All of this insulates them from having to worry about
| the long-term sustainability of making money from game sales on
| Windows, and if it works out, they wouldn't even necessarily have
| to continue making hardware indefinitely.
|
| I don't pretend to have any insight into whether this theory is
| correct beyond that it seems to track with what they've been
| doing lately, or any expertise to make claims about whether it
| will work or not. In a lot of ways, this might just be a
| projection of my desires as a gamer who enjoys not having had to
| boot into Windows to play something for quite a few years at this
| point. I do hope that maybe they're just crazy enough to not only
| try this, but pull it off though!
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Didn't Gabe Newell basically confirm 13 years ago already that
| they were aiming for that ?
|
| https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18996377
| saghm wrote:
| I'd love to be confident that the company's strategy is sound
| enough to keep the same long-term goals from that far back,
| but I don't think I'm sure enough to make strong assumptions
| about what the overall motivations of products launched in
| 2025 are from his comments in 2012. I do think that it's a
| plausible explanation, but there's plenty of room for
| humility in attempting to interpret whether intent has
| changed in the light of over a decade of new circumstances
| that may or may not have been expected.
| ajam1507 wrote:
| Not much of a theory when everything you described has already
| happened.
| CupricTea wrote:
| I still remember when Valve first showed an early alpha
| unreleased version of Steam running natively in Ubuntu for the
| first time in the early 2010s. It blew my mind that a major
| company, especially an entertainment company, was targeting
| Linux at this scale.
|
| Of course, Wine was very lackluster in those days, and for a
| while I was worried they'd eventually give up with the
| monumental effort that would be involved in getting it up to
| snuff.
|
| It's now over a decade later and they're still at it and have
| made monumental leaps. Valve truly was and still is playing the
| long game here.
|
| Imagine if Microsoft had never threatened their business with
| the Windows 8 store and the anxiety of Microsoft locking down
| their platform.
| gorgoiler wrote:
| Halflife2 ran _perfectly_ under WINE. At the time I assumed
| that it was a win for WINE but with hindsight -- and typing
| this out makes me feel so naive! -- was HL2 optimized for
| WINE in order to make WINE more successful? Of course it must
| have been!
|
| It's a shame the connotations are negative because this
| ironic comment otherwise works quite well: _This large wooden
| horse is such an extravagant gift, it has to have some
| subversive purpose, right?!_
| MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
| > maybe other vendors will come out with similar products that
| come with SteamOS by default
|
| It's already happening. Lenovo released a SteamOS variant of
| the The Lenovo Legion Go S.
| xeonmc wrote:
| I for one eagerly awaits Lenovo to release SteamOS versions
| of their ThinkPads
| omnimus wrote:
| I mean most thinkpads run linux jist fine. So they already
| are SteamOS machines.
| tracker1 wrote:
| They generally run Linux without issue already... that
| said, pre-installed options would be nice, not sure if
| SteamOS is the most appropriate. Probably Pop, Cachy or
| Bazzite, and given that Pop comes from a competitor,
| unlikely.
| hotstickyballs wrote:
| Turns out the problem with mobile was windows all along!
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| Gabe is a former MSFTy, left in 1996 to found Valve, he saw
| games as more popular than Windows. It wouldn't surprise me if
| he got into games in order to compete against his former
| employer which would suggest to me that this plan has been in
| motion since before 1996, almost 30 years. At least from my
| point of view, if I wanted to take on Microsoft, doing what he
| did for the past 30 years is how I would go about doing that.
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| Gabe gave a talk at my college like 12 or 13 years ago. He
| explicitly called out the unbelievable number of downloads
| for Doom as a sign that games were going to be huge.
|
| Fun non-sequitur: the other speaker at that talk went on to
| become the finance minister of Greece.
| elbear wrote:
| Yanis Varoufakis?
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| Yes he was a visiting professor for like a semester or
| two.
| cgio wrote:
| He was also working for Valve for a while.
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| Yes that's why he and Gabe were speakers at the talk. In
| game economies were the topic.
| yeasku wrote:
| Yanis basically created steam market and the dota/cs
| economy
| ThrowawayB7 wrote:
| > " _All of this insulates them from having to worry about the
| long-term sustainability of making money from game sales on
| Windows..._ "
|
| The weak link in your theory is that Microsoft is in control of
| the future of the DirectX API, not Valve, and it is Microsoft
| who is working with nVidia and AMD and game studios to evolve
| DirectX to take advantage of the latest GPU features. SteamOS
| can at best follow closely behind but can never take the lead
| without Valve developing their own games API that games
| developers an GPU makers are willing to target.
| beAbU wrote:
| I don't think this needs to be a theory. Valve regards
| Microsoft's flirtations with walled gardens (MS Store) as an
| existential threat. They see their investment into linux gaming
| as a hedge against future locked down windows OS, which is at
| this point probably inevitable.
| ecef9-8c0f-4374 wrote:
| I really like my steam deck. After buying it I wanted to Download
| Musik and checkout some Films just to realize they removed all
| non game media years ago
| mistyvales wrote:
| Will wait until dosdude1 upgrades it to 32GB :D
| gorfian_robot wrote:
| echoing others here in that I want Steam Lap(top).
|
| I am old and never into controller/couch gaming after the Atari
| era. I prefer either keyboard/mouse or gameboy for those nintendo
| exclusives.
|
| I also travel a lot and a console or desktop PC just doesn't make
| sense in my life.
|
| Maybe soon!
| vkazanov wrote:
| Nothing keeps you from buying an amd-based thinkpad with ubuntu
| and steam on it. I run god of war on mine, no problem.
| Rohansi wrote:
| You could always just install the Steam client on a regular
| laptop. All of Valve's hardware is basically just booting into
| that anyway.
| 0xWTF wrote:
| USB2-A ... what? Why? It's <checks watch> almost 2026. Apple
| hasn't shipped USB-A since 2017. But ok, apparently there's a
| bunch of PC folks still rocking USB-A. Cool, love that for them.
| But why not make them all USB3-A?
| bakies wrote:
| yes agree on the 3, but many gamers sporting old (e.g. xbox 360
| controller) or cheap hardware (e.g. "gaming" keyboard on
| amazon). Pretty sure USB-C is expensive because of licensing.
| checking my PC i have more A ports utilized than C
| jolmg wrote:
| Wonder if they'll ship worldwide.
| estimator7292 wrote:
| I really, really hope people start calling this device the
| GabeCube
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-11-13 23:01 UTC)