[HN Gopher] Steam Machine
___________________________________________________________________
Steam Machine
Author : davikr
Score : 1095 points
Date : 2025-11-12 17:59 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (store.steampowered.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (store.steampowered.com)
| mojoe wrote:
| Steam is the only reason I have a Windows desktop, I'll probably
| just get one of these next time I want a hardware refresh (which
| admittedly will probably be many years).
|
| Interesting that it uses KDE Plasma for the desktop
| lordleft wrote:
| I like SteamOS a great deal, though it's not my daily driver
| (yet). I'm curious if people will begin to use it as a daily
| driver and thus expect Valve to be an OS developer on top of
| creating software for their gaming hardware. That's a different
| set of expectations and I wonder how they'll navigate it.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| > thus expect Valve to be an OS developer on top of creating
| software for their gaming hardware. That's a different set of
| expectations and I wonder how they'll navigate it.
|
| They've been doing it since Steam Deck launched, or even
| since they started to contribute to Proton/Wine (depending on
| exactly what you see "OS" to be). They seem to have grips on
| it more or less already, Deck upgrades are a breeze and the
| machine and software itself is open enough for a Linux hacker
| like me to be very comfortable on it, and also closed down
| enough for my nieces to not be able to brick theirs by just
| tapping around.
| oersted wrote:
| Indeed, even much earlier. With Steam Deck they achieved
| wider adoption but the first generation of Steam Machines
| came out in 2015 and they have been committed to the
| SteamOS linux distro since then.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| Yeah, I'm sure you're right overall, they've been at it
| for a long time. I think it's worth keeping in mind that
| all of the SteamOS'es before Steam Deck were pretty much
| nothing like the current (3.0) iteration. If I recall
| correctly, I think they were based on Ubuntu or Debian,
| compared to the current Arch Linux distribution.
| keyringlight wrote:
| They seem to have worked it out well by limiting SteamOS to
| their hardware, so they don't have to handle all the
| varieties a regular distro has to. There's a significant
| number of people who want an 'official' release as a
| regular installable distro but I doubt it'll happen and
| Valve are happy to delegate that to others
| jvanderbot wrote:
| Linux is my daily driver, and I run steam to play games
| (though, not on a work linux partition for reasons).
|
| It can run just about everything I want to play, but yes,
| there are plenty of things that don't work yet. Doom Dark
| Ages, for example.
| TiredOfLife wrote:
| I have been using Steam Deck oled as my main computing device
| for 2 years. It has been amazing. It's fast and silent.
| mhitza wrote:
| I've used SteamOS as a daily driver for half a year.
| Immutable distros have limitations and my distrobox images
| failed to work after a SteamOS update.
|
| If you're ok with running work stuff in a separate VM within
| SteamOS, that works great. Using Geekbench I saw only a 5%
| cpu performance penalty. Io takes a bigger hit, but that
| wasn't a blocker for me as I was intending to run VMs with
| encrypted storage anyway (which adds even more latency) but
| still a good experience for my work.
| przmk wrote:
| It doesn't boot into the desktop by default -- it uses its own
| session with the Gamescope compositor. The desktop is easily
| accessible through the power menu though.
| PhilippGille wrote:
| > Interesting that it uses KDE Plasma for the desktop
|
| SteamOS on the Steam Deck already used KDE Plasma for the
| desktop.
| teroshan wrote:
| https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamframe [1]
|
| > Steam Frame is a PC, and runs SteamOS powered by a
| Snapdragon(r) 8 Series Processor. With 16GB of RAM, Steam Frame
| supports stand-alone play on a growing number of both VR and non-
| VR games without needing to stream from your PC.
|
| So Steam + Proton works on aarch64? Is this something already
| available/supported, or is this an announcement?
|
| [1] Steam Frame, which is the VR Headset releasing alongside the
| Steam Machine. Dedicated discussion here
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903325
| sylens wrote:
| I think this is a form of an announcement but without many
| details. I'm curious to see how well it works
| jsheard wrote:
| Valve has been quietly working on integrating the FEX x86
| emulator into Proton for a while, and it's official now.
|
| https://www.tomshardware.com/peripherals/gaming-headsets/han...
| teroshan wrote:
| Valve deciding to support Arm-based gaming is HUGE news
| Yokolos wrote:
| https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/1493
|
| This is fun, just found this issue from 2018 which was closed
| with this comment:
|
| > Hello @setsunati, this is not a realistic objective for
| Proton. As @rkfg, mentions wine for ARM does not magically
| make x86 based games work on ARM cpus.
|
| > Even if Steam were brought to ARM, and an x86 emulation
| layer was run underneath wine, the amount of games that could
| run fast and without hitting video driver quirks is small
| enough not to entertain this idea any time in the near
| future.
|
| It's mentioned in this issue
| https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/8136 which was
| closed Oct 2024 with this comment by kisak-valve:
|
| > Hello @Theleafir1, similar to #1493, this is not a
| realistic objective for Proton any time in the near future.
| baq wrote:
| Finally some clarification on what valve time _actually_
| is.
| mosselman wrote:
| What do you mean? Could you share your insight?
| yvdriess wrote:
| https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
| dmonitor wrote:
| it's running joke that Valve will announce something as
| "coming soon" only to release months or years later
|
| https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
| AlienRobot wrote:
| This kind of thing is what makes me trust Valve.
| radialstub wrote:
| I believe this work is a continuation of the work the asahi
| linux people did to get games working on M-series macs. It
| seems Alyssa Rosenzweig works at valve as a contractor. Super
| cool work. Some seriously talented folks.
| LeonM wrote:
| Alyssa works for Intel now, so I doubt she'll be doing much
| contract work for Valve anymore...
| embedding-shape wrote:
| What a jump, I'd be curious to hear first why anyone
| would prefer Intel above pretty much anything else, but
| also secondly how the actual experience difference
| between the two after working at both, must be a very
| strong contrast between them.
| KerrAvon wrote:
| usually a combination of money/benefits/locale is the
| answer to this question
| bigyabai wrote:
| Would it shock you to hear that many/most engineers don't
| pick an employer based on brand reputation?
| ikety wrote:
| I'm sure most would stay at valve if they could. The just
| do so much contract work, and I'm sure a stable job at
| intel is better pay, benefits and stability.
| whizzter wrote:
| Maybe she was given a huge signing bonus to avoid her
| working on making X86 irrelevant? Combined with perhaps
| some interesting project to work on for real.
| neilv wrote:
| If I were Intel, this sounds like a great person to give
| an R&D skunkworks dream job.
|
| Potential lottery ticket win, they are available for
| consulting internally anywhere that can add value, and
| they're not working for anyone else.
| pdpi wrote:
| Have to wonder if there is a world where Proton comes to
| macOS.
| jsheard wrote:
| Pretty unlikely as long as Apple refuses to support Vulkan.
| Even if they did, the whole Proton project is about Valve
| controlling their own destiny rather than being chained to
| someone else's platform, and Apple is just another
| Microsoft in that regard.
| pdpi wrote:
| True, forgot about that. That said, Apple does have
| D3DMetal. A man can dream that they eventually opensource
| that.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| > Pretty unlikely as long as Apple refuses to support
| Vulkan.
|
| You would only translate into Vulcan when running on an
| OS that uses Vulcan as the native graphics API.
|
| On a Mac, Wine translates directly into Metal.
| jsheard wrote:
| Valve _could_ implement a separate Metal backend for
| Proton, what I 'm saying is they probably wouldn't want
| to spend their resources on that.
| samtheprogram wrote:
| That's because D3DMetal already exists. Games run like
| they did on Proton ~4-5 years ago, some games better.
|
| I mostly no longer boot my Linux machine anymore to play
| games.
|
| The anticheat story is probably not as good but I don't
| play any AAA games, so I wouldn't know.
| jsheard wrote:
| That's great as long as it works, but D3DMetal is a
| proprietary, closed-source Apple library so you can and
| probably will get rug-pulled by Apple neglecting or
| deprecating it as their priorities change. They've only
| ever positioned it as an "evaluation environment" for
| developers to estimate how their game will run before
| going ahead with a native Mac port, not as something for
| end-users to play Windows games with, so if developers
| don't bite then they'll have no reason to keep working on
| it.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Proton is a downstream fork of Wine, and upstream Wine
| already directly supports playing Windows games on Mac
| using D3DMetal.
|
| You don't need Proton's Wine fork when you can just use
| Wine.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| > Games run like they did on Proton ~4-5 years ago, some
| games better.
|
| Proton previously only worked on x86, so there was not
| the additional overhead of x86 to ARM translation.
|
| Proton on ARM will have the same performance constraints
| as Wine on ARM Macs.
| derefr wrote:
| Couldn't _Apple_ spend their resources on that? Proton is
| open-source, and Apple 's the one with the incentive to
| have more "prestige" AAA game devs to parade around
| during keynotes.
| jsheard wrote:
| Apple could but they're not interested in non-native
| games, they want native ports or nothing. As I discussed
| a few posts over, Apple went to the trouble of developing
| a DirectX compatibility layer, but then told game
| developers they're not allowed to use it for anything
| besides evaluating whether their game would run well
| enough on Mac hardware. If they go ahead with a port then
| Apple still expects them to do it all the hard way.
|
| It's textbook "perfect is the enemy of good" because
| yeah, compatibility layers have overhead, native is
| better, but if you insist on native everything but can't
| get devs on board then you just end up with no games.
| tick_tock_tick wrote:
| Apple could but Apple would rather die they allow
| something to work cross platform.
| miohtama wrote:
| Wouldn't it be Apple's benefit to get more gaming on
| MacOS? Their goals might align with Steam.
|
| Apple's native gaming story has been similar failure as
| their AI and Siri ventures. Time to fix it.
| WhyNotHugo wrote:
| Valve seems to break free form depending on someone
| else's walled garden.
|
| Apple seeks to builds its own walled garden.
|
| Their interests do not align. Apple doesn't want portable
| software on their platform, they want exclusive software.
| easyThrowaway wrote:
| I mean, theoretically they could backport the D3DMetal
| wine driver from the Game Porting Toolkit. Also I
| remember there was some early preliminary work done on
| stock wine a few years ago.
|
| Honestly right now there is so much overlapping between
| all the wine "flavors" and forks available (Stock wine,
| Crossover, Proton/Proton-GE/Wine-GE, Game Porting
| Toolkit, winevdm, probably a few more I'm forgetting
| right now) I'm not entirely sure how many features have
| been independently implemented already multiple times.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Proton is just a fork of Wine that also translates from
| Microsoft's DirectX graphics API to the native graphics API
| of Linux (Vulcan) so you can run Windows games on Linux.
|
| The new thing Proton is adding is translation from x86 to
| ARM.
|
| Macs already have Wine, an x86 to ARM translation layer
| (Rosetta), and an Apple provided translation layer from
| Microsoft's DirectX to the Mac's native Metal graphics API
| (D3DMetal) which is integrated into upstream Wine.
| derefr wrote:
| There was also a parallel effort to this end, targeting
| Android rather than plain Linux, resulting in an app called
| https://winlator.org/ -- which also works quite well at this
| point. (See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP0yUqcyY18)
| pippy360 wrote:
| That was a very higher quality YT video. It's clearly
| written by someone who knows when they're talking about
| even though it's mostly non-technical
| jasonjmcghee wrote:
| Wow this looks great. Foveated streaming, great resolution,
| wireless, 144hz, looks much more comfortable... As much as I
| want this, I feel like it'll end up being a really cool thing
| that just sits on the shelf.
|
| Edit: foveated _streaming_ , not rendering
| erxam wrote:
| Maybe they've cracked the code with the dongle? Usually, you
| either have to invest both time and money into setting up the
| perfect streaming network, deal with annoying cables or
| resign yourself to inferior on-device game versions. The
| ergonomics matter more than you'd think.
|
| But if it's a very easy plug-n-play type deal to run SteamVR
| games (and on Linux!), that's a huge ergonomic improvement.
| Don't have to think too much about whether everything is
| running correctly or what-have-you.
| mavamaarten wrote:
| If it's just plug and play and works well, it'd be
| brilliant. I have experimented a lot with a couple or wifi
| dongles I had lying around and setting up a hotspot, but
| honestly I could never get it to work well.
|
| Streaming VR content is just so sensitive. I have a good
| cabled network but even a simple switch introduced
| noticeable lag spikes. In the end I have a separate router
| that I just connect straight to my PC, and then I share my
| wifi connection through my PC to that network. A whole
| silly setup just to minimize latency and packet loss. If
| that could be replaced with a simple USB dongle I'd be
| amazed.
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| I recommend preparing a drink or two and loading up VRchat
| and joining one of the rave club groups. Check out the
| metaverse zuck wishes he ran.
| grepex wrote:
| I could see Steam creating the OASIS
| darkwater wrote:
| Any idea if Gabe likes Rush?
| embedding-shape wrote:
| I tried VRChat once or twice but never seemed to have found
| any fun places/groups to hang out that weren't obsessing
| about anime/manga most of the time. Anyone here on HN have
| better suggestions of worlds/groups or where to even look?
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| There are groups that are more focused on music (DnB,
| dubstep, other festival-friendly genres), focused on
| dancing, focused on drinking games, focused on world-
| hopping, etc. I'm into the underground rave vibe, so for
| that there's VRC Party Hub, which is a guy who runs a
| discord who befriends as many clubs as he can find in
| that scene, and imports their schedules/announcements
| channels into a nightly report of all known events.
|
| https://x.com/VRChatPartyHub
| qwm wrote:
| VRChat is one of the most socially dysfunctional online
| platforms I've ever used
| jauntywundrkind wrote:
| I don't think there is foveated rendering. There is foveated
| _encoding,_ when game streaming.
|
| Looks like a very competent headset indeed though! Nice combo
| of fast streaming that can prioritize well with foveated
| encoding, and hopefully a pretty nice malleable capable
| standalone headset too.
| jasonjmcghee wrote:
| Yes - thank you, fixed
| pimeys wrote:
| My NVIDIA Shield is getting old and slow. I can see this as a
| good replacement, because it supports HDMI CEC, so you can
| control it with your remote control.
|
| Install Plex, JellyFin, FreeTube et.al. to it and you have a
| nice open source TV box.
|
| You also get 4k gaming from Steam, GOG, Epic etc. and you get
| emulators. I've been wanting to build a computer like this,
| but CEC is hard to find and the adapters that exist don't
| support full 4k resolution.
| matthewrobertso wrote:
| The specs for this steam machine say HDMI 2.0, in the past
| I used a pulse8 HDMI CEC USB dongle with a computer which
| was also HDMI 2.0 iirc. I was using a 1080p projector with
| it but their website claims 4k support: https://www.pulse-
| eight.com/p/104/usb-hdmi-cec-adapter
|
| I recently replaced a shield with an Ugoos Am6b+ running
| coreELEC, which works okay and supports some stuff the
| shield doesn't but I miss being able to run some android
| apps easily. I wonder if the new steam machine will support
| DV.
| baq wrote:
| I lowkey hope it's good enough for coding. Really wanted to
| try out the xreal glasses, but multiple people said they
| aren't crisp enough for text.
| nickstinemates wrote:
| I can't wait until the tech reaches this stage. Infinite
| desktop space, surrounded by text and terminals. It will be
| so hard to unplug.
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| resolution is in the 2000x2000 range so don't count on it.
| nulld3v wrote:
| There are already headsets with decent text fidelity, but
| IMO the problem is now on the host side. I tried to get an
| XR desktop env running (Stardust https://stardustxr.org/)
| on Linux but ran into graphical issues. The Windows
| ecosystem is much better though.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| It looks good until I reached one bit:
|
| > Passthrough - Monochrome passthrough via outward facing
| cameras
|
| This is an outright bone-headed move that I can't believe
| Valve is making. Only having monochrome cameras means
| augmented reality is basically a non-starter.
|
| AR has a lot of potential. I literally bought a Meta Quest 3
| just for PianoVision [0] when I already had a Valve Index. I
| would love to see some sort of AR-based game you could play
| outdoors. But with only monochrome vision, that's gonna be
| awful.
|
| [0] https://youtu.be/apwZTV-Rg0s
| starkparker wrote:
| The videos I've seen about the Frame all call out the front
| expansion port, which "Valve says ... offers a dual 2.5Gbps
| MIPI camera interface and also supports a one-lane Gen 4
| PCIe data port for other peripherals."[1]
|
| That's plenty to support color passthrough as a physical
| addon, which in turn makes me think that, like with the
| OLED Deck, we'll see a Frame with built-in color-
| passthrough later as a different premium SKU when/if they
| justify it.
|
| 1: https://www.uploadvr.com/valve-steam-frame-official-
| announce...
| delusional wrote:
| I'm more confused that it's running SteamOS which is supposedly
| Arch based, but arch doesn't officially support ARM. You have
| to use the ArchLinuxARM distro for that, which is less
| maintained. They got to be doing something off label for that.
| uncletaco wrote:
| Even if they are, Valve has a long track record of
| contributing back to open source projects.
| 0x1ch wrote:
| Proton was a community led effort years back. The guy who
| started that is now an employee at Valve (IIRC) working on
| Proton, but also getting paid :)
| 0x457 wrote:
| > arch doesn't officially support ARM
|
| Doesn't really mean much to Valve as SteamOS vendor:
|
| - linux kernel supports aarch64 just fine
|
| - user space supports aarach64 just as fine
|
| - Valve provides runtime for games (be it via proton or
| native linux), so providing aarch64 builds is up to them
| anyway
|
| The main point of ArchLinuxARM is providing compatible
| binaries, which isn't something hard to do in-house.
| whatevaa wrote:
| Arch doesn't support ARM at all. Arm is somebody else hobby
| project.
| tiberious726 wrote:
| You mean valve's?
| wafflemaker wrote:
| isn't Steam Deck arm based?
| delusional wrote:
| No. It's an AMD x64 CPU married to an onboard GPU.
| milutinovici wrote:
| No, it's AMD based
| gavinsyancey wrote:
| Arch has been working with Valve on various build system
| improvements for some time [0], which as I understand it
| are targeted at making it more feasible for them to
| eventually support more architectures [1]. This doesn't
| release for several months; I wonder if there'll be an
| official Arch Linux ARM by then?
|
| [0]: https://lists.archlinux.org/archives/list/arch-dev-
| public@li...
|
| [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41696041
| stetrain wrote:
| Just to clarify that's for the Steam Frame VR Headset. The
| Steam Machine PC uses an AMD Zen 4 x86 CPU.
| SpaceNoodled wrote:
| The headset isn't natively running games, right?
| smileybarry wrote:
| It _can_ , but it'll be a small subset of stuff. You'll
| probably be able to just hit install + play on most things,
| but it'll have a "Steam Frame Verified" program like the
| Steam Deck's.
| stetrain wrote:
| Yes, in the same way that a Quest 3 can run BeatSaber and
| other similar calibre games.
|
| For more demanding games it's designed to stream from a PC.
| jadbox wrote:
| When's the preorders happening?
| nialv7 wrote:
| > So Steam + Proton works on aarch64?
|
| CodeWeavers just announced[0] CrossOver on ARM a couple of days
| ago, so yes.
|
| [0]: https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/mjohnson/2025/11/6/twist-
| ou...
| Ekaros wrote:
| >RAM 16GB DDR5 + 8GB GDDR6 VRAM
|
| Hmm. Not that it is big deal, but I would be somewhat worried
| about true longevity with the VRAM. Not sure if SteamOS helps
| there, but on PC some new titles are going over the 8GB VRAM.
| keyringlight wrote:
| One of the things I've noted for a while is that PC gaming as a
| platform seems to be polarizing between high and low spec,
| especially if you look outside of North America/Western Europe
| to places like South America or SE Asia. The steam deck and now
| this seem to be a reference/target platform for the low spec
| group. It might not be able to play the prestigious high spec
| titles well if at all, but so long as "your mileage may vary"
| is messaged well I can't see it being a problem, it hasn't so
| far.
| Mr_Bees69 wrote:
| it meets or exceeds the ps5 and xbox series x, so it might not
| be top tier, but it'll be fine. I have a plenty good time on my
| series x, cant think of any stutters.
| lights0123 wrote:
| Both consoles allow more than 8GB to be used for the
| integrated GPU.
| esskay wrote:
| Actually looks like its just _slightly_ less powerful than
| them.
| AnotherGoodName wrote:
| It's a very low end Radeon 7000 series. It's absolutely
| incapable of the highest texture quality and rendering
| resolutions that need more than 8GB of VRAM. You'll likely
| never go above 1080p on this card (1440p is going to be rough
| based on benchmarks of the existing low end 7000 series).
|
| There's absolutely no reasonable way to use more than 8GB of
| VRAM on this card.
| hs86 wrote:
| Even modern low-end GPUs should have more than enough fill
| rate for high-res textures. The texture quality setting in
| games is usually not affecting performance at all until VRAM
| runs out.
| AnotherGoodName wrote:
| Part of that is that the texture detail scales to the point
| where on a low end card at low resolutions you aren't
| seeing any difference between high and low detail textures.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| No DisplayPort 2.0 is interesting because RDNA3 should
| support that.
|
| More importantly, FSR4 (currently) doesn't support RDNA3, so
| you'll be limited on upscaling too.
| hs86 wrote:
| Not sure how heavy SteamOS is, but wouldn't modern games
| actually prefer a flipped memory configuration? So, 8 GB RAM
| and 16 GB VRAM would make this a more 'balanced' gaming
| appliance. But it is advertised as a general purpose PC, so 8
| GB RAM wouldn't be enough.
| Yokolos wrote:
| 8GB just isn't enough for modern AAA games. Battlefield 6,
| probably the most highly optimized AAA game to have come out
| in the past few years, still has a 16GB RAM minimum and Arc
| Raiders, which is also incredibly optimized, still has a 12GB
| minimum. Games are only going to become more resource hungry
| from here, so 8GB in early 2026 would be a terrible idea.
| cheema33 wrote:
| > most highly optimized AAA game to have come out in the
| past few years, still has a 16GB RAM minimum.
|
| Are you talking about VRAM or system RAM? Steam machine has
| 16GB of system RAM and is expandable. VRAM is limited to
| 8GB.
| vel0city wrote:
| https://www.ea.com/en/games/battlefield/battlefield-6/syste
| m... Minimum PC System Requirements
| OS: Windows 10 (Proton, maybe, probably anti-cheat issues)
| Processor(AMD): AMD Ryzen 5 2600 (Yep [?] ) . . .
| Memory: 16GB (Yep, 16GB of system RAM [?] )
| Graphics Card(AMD): AMD Radeon RX 5600 XT 6GB (8 GB of RAM
| [?] )
|
| I do agree 8GB of VRAM is a little low for a device to
| release in 2026 though. But it technically does meet all
| memory requirements for Battlefield 6.
| esskay wrote:
| The RAM's upgradable, it's standard DDR5 on a SODIMM module
| aboringusername wrote:
| Games publishers/developers are going to have to wind in their
| necks a little. Whilst memory is abundant it's also still quite
| expensive. We should still be aiming for efficiency and the
| chances are 16gb+ are in the minority here. Fact is, the more
| VRAM and compute you demand the smaller your customer-base
| becomes.
|
| I've played many games with 8GB VRAM* and will do so for the
| forseeable. If that's not enough, I am not a customer. Simple
| as.
|
| The truth is, there is going to be a massive motivation with
| the likes of Steam Deck/Machine to actually make titles that
| are optimised and perform well within their hardware
| parameters. It's money you won't want to ignore.
|
| *One example was Silent Hill remake on PC, which used the
| unreal engine. It was optimised beautifully and ran without
| visual glitches and stutters even with the highest graphic
| demands on a 8GB RTX
| esskay wrote:
| I think it does also help that a big chunk of Steams userbase
| are playing smaller indie titles that don't need obscene
| amounts of vram. The steam deck audience for example has a
| lot of people playing both a mix of AAA and smaller games.
| Given this is advertised as 6x as powerful as the deck I'm
| sure they'll be fine. It's not meant to be a top of the line
| console thats for sure, and if it was people would be moaning
| that its too expensive.
| lawlessone wrote:
| Not using the highest settings obviously but i can run RD2
| and CP2077 on the deck fine.
|
| It will be a while before there is ps6 or new xbox.
| msabalau wrote:
| You always have the option of streaming a game, though.
|
| 8 GB is good enough for most everything, and can you stream on
| an exception basis, if something truly demanding catches your
| eye.
| energy123 wrote:
| It should be good enough for any game with a toggle on
| textures quality, which is pretty much every big title for
| the foreseeable future?
| reactordev wrote:
| These links open the Steam app on my phone and crash. :(
| teroshan wrote:
| Opening them in a private tab circumvents that behavior (at
| least for me)
| phreack wrote:
| I had to install the app to try and work around a problem with
| Steam, and then had the same problems just browsing. You can
| probably disable that behavior, but I ended up just
| uninstalling the app entirely.
|
| The support experience was so bad that I got really soured on
| Valve, and can't even get excited for these announcements now.
| hollow-moe wrote:
| Forcing the use of the steam app for 2FA is such an ass move.
| Keeping this as a reminder of Valve still being a corporation
| with interests that can shift to the worst in a single day.
| hyperpl wrote:
| Wonder if there is a good remote with voice input to use for
| YouTube and Kodi so I can replace my shield TV.
| Loughla wrote:
| I haven't had any problems with my shield since the update that
| killed it about 3 years ago.
|
| Or maybe I've just gotten used to it?
|
| Are you having issues with yours?
| buu709 wrote:
| My Shield is 7 or 8 years old at this point and still going
| strong. Was very much hoping for something like this from
| Steam just in case something were to happen to it.
| fph wrote:
| How much?
| babblingfish wrote:
| In 2026 we should be getting Windows on a Xbox console with the
| Xbox skinned version of windows. This would be a direct
| competitor to that since most PC gamers have the majority of
| their game library on steam.
| ksynwa wrote:
| > the Xbox skinned version of windows
|
| Isn't that what the ROG Xbox Ally devices have? At least that's
| what it looked like to me. Something like a SteamOS's gaming
| mode counterpart for Windows.
| babblingfish wrote:
| Yes, the xbox skinned version of windows is in the ROG Xbox
| Ally
| robotnikman wrote:
| And iirc it performed worse than SteamOS due to all the
| Windows bloat.
| creaturemachine wrote:
| If MS even bothers to make another xbox this is what it will
| be.
| hasperdi wrote:
| Does anyone know the price?
| daedrdev wrote:
| they have yet to announce the price
| haunter wrote:
| "Steam Machine's pricing is comparable to a PC with similar
| specs" [0]
|
| I's say max ~800EUR at this point
|
| 0, https://www.theverge.com/tech/818111/valve-steam-machine-
| han...
| max-leo wrote:
| > HDMI 2.0
|
| The HDMI Forum yet again rearing it's ugly head by continuing to
| block GPU manufacturers from implementing HDMI 2.1 in the Open
| Source drivers
| klipklop wrote:
| Yup. This really needs to be fixed. There have been on-going
| bug reports on it for years. AMD just needs to move the hdmi
| 2.1 stuff behind a firmware binary blob already like NVIDIA
| does. It's so annoying not having full quality HDMI. It's the
| only think keeping me from using Linux on my current gaming PC
| that is hooked exclusively up to my TV... Either that or TV's
| need to start having Display Port.
| TheTon wrote:
| This is a big miss for me. I can't use my TVs 120Hz VRR mode
| without HDMI 2.1.
|
| I realize the Xbox Series X is beleaguered at this point, but
| apart from playing games that are on Steam but not Xbox, I
| can't see why I would prefer the Steam Machine.
| moelf wrote:
| "Luckily," the hardware won't allow for 4k@120Hz on visually
| cutting edge games anyway.
| paulatreides wrote:
| "Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still your
| PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who
| are we to tell you how to use your computer?"
| lukan wrote:
| It might be PR speak ... but for me it is working.
| perihelions wrote:
| > _" SteamOS 3 (Arch-based)"_
|
| Holy shit, it's the Year of The Linux Desktop, for real this
| time. It's happening. It's _actually happening_.
|
| A standard Arch Linux/KDE[0] PC for every home, in a polished,
| vendor-supported package. Like Apple, it's a single standard
| hardware/OS pair, so, FOSS' fatal hardware-support hell might
| well be made obsolete. The vendor is a household name
| corporation. There's an incredibly fortuitous (for Linux) market
| dynamic at this point in time, of "commoditize your complement"--
| the dynamic that Valve has incentives to invest massively in
| giving away a nice thing for _free_ , because that does bad
| things to its competitors. And Steam is... the killer super-app
| to end all killer apps.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SteamOS
|
| This is real life!
| atonse wrote:
| If hype is to be believed, Omarchy is also pushing a lot of
| devs to Linux.
| erxam wrote:
| The only thing that crock of shit is attracting is grifter
| bucks.
| atonse wrote:
| Omarchy is free.
| erxam wrote:
| So? That doesn't mean D14HH isn't receiving "donations"
| for his "work".
| seabrookmx wrote:
| Any devs that find the visuals, keyboard driven workflow, or
| cult of DHH appealing enough to try Omarchy are likely
| already Linux users.
|
| Linux has been a great platform for devs for a long time.
| This is exactly why WSL exists, and why MacOS has a native
| Linux container[1] tool.. because Linux was eating their
| lunch in this user segment.
|
| [1]: https://github.com/apple/container
| atonse wrote:
| I've been using MacOS as my daily driver for 20 years
| exactly because it had the best mix of (what I used to say
| a while back), "Linux that works, and ain't ugly"
|
| OrbStack has solved all the issues I had with running
| containers on macOS. It's just a wonderful piece of
| software that just works. (Not arguing vs container, just
| specifying another option)
| embedding-shape wrote:
| The only thing I'd like to know, if the CPU/GPU will be
| replaceable? The specs say "Semi-custom AMD Zen 4" and "Semi-
| Custom AMD RDNA3", but I don't see "soldered" anywhere, so I
| guess maybe they'll be switchable? If not with off-the-shelves
| components, maybe Valve will offer their own upgrade kits in the
| future?
| zorked wrote:
| > I don't see "soldered" anywhere, so I guess maybe they'll be
| switchable
|
| Unfortunately that's quite a logical jump...
| embedding-shape wrote:
| Yeah, I mean my comment is all speculation, guesses and
| opinions. Given the limited information, some jumping is
| required, if at least in order to ask questions :)
| opencl wrote:
| Given the memory configuration it seems _extremely_ unlikely
| that it 's socketed. It's certainly not AM5.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| You mean "16GB DDR5 + 8GB GDDR6 VRAM" or something else? I
| took it just as they didn't want to put VRAM next to the GPU
| for some reason, rather than them actually being linked
| somehow. Maybe I misunderstand.
| cflewis wrote:
| RDNA 3 is going to hold this machine back. DLSS is far and away
| better, but Nvidia's apathy towards Linux has made playing on
| something like Bazzite a worse experience. Nvidia has little
| reason to keep investing in Windows gaming drivers given the AI
| race, so seeing DLSS 4 or something on Linux is a pipe dream.
|
| I think this machine will be decent for most people, but it's
| no-one with a 3080 is going to be looking at this and thinking
| "this is worth it", as it's probably coming in at about $750.
| The question is whether it'll have power parity with whatever
| the next Xbox is.
| keyringlight wrote:
| Unless AMD/Valve pull a rabbit out of a hat it'll also be
| missing FSR4 which needs RDNA4, and is AMD's pretty-damn-
| close catch up to DLSS.
| ZekeSulastin wrote:
| I thought DLSS4 did work on Linux, and a quick glance at
| r/linux_gaming seems to say the same.
|
| I agree about RDNA3 holding it back; given its specs I'm
| hoping its significantly cheaper than $750.
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| Pretty much all (non-Apple) computers in this form factor have
| a soldered CPU and GPU (and of course soldered VRAM), and slots
| for DIMMs and M.2.
| bangaladore wrote:
| Unless you made a typo here-- Apple's equivalent to this is
| Mac Mini, which has soldered CPU, GPU and RAM (and also the
| SSD as its not soldered, but it's not standard).
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| Yes, that was my point, Mac Mini solders components that
| are not soldered on most other computers of that form
| factor, but a socketed CPU or GPU would be extremely
| unusual.
| haunter wrote:
| Soldered, not upgradable
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWUxObt1efQ&t=591s
| embedding-shape wrote:
| Shame, but makes sense. Thanks for finding it out for us!
|
| You happen to know if the same is true for the RAM? Video
| seems to mention soldered CPU and GPU only, I skimmed the
| video but didn't see it mentioned.
| robotnikman wrote:
| I'm seeing conflicting info on the RAM. Some are saying its
| soldered, others are saying its replaceable.
| amlib wrote:
| It might be because the gpu ram is soldered but the cpu
| ram is replaceable?
| butlike wrote:
| I mean, honestly, do you ask the same question about a
| PS5/Xbox? At a certain point, just build an upgradable PC. I'd
| equate this product more to a home console than a PC at this
| point
| embedding-shape wrote:
| I do not, my expectations are also way lower for Sony and
| especially Windows (still, happy PS5 owner here). I already
| have a PC, thanks for asking!
|
| Steam specifically pitches this as a console+PC so I thought
| asking clarifying questions about the PC part of the product
| made sense.
| nalekberov wrote:
| Video games were the only reason for me to use Windows, now that
| Steam solved this problem no reason to look back anymore. I am
| also not big fan of multi-player games, so not being able to play
| games with anti-cheat system buried deep into their binaries
| isn't an issue.
| thadt wrote:
| Pretty much the only reason I boot to Windows anymore is to play
| games with my kids and family. The direction of this thing is
| dangerously close to being all I'd care about from a desktop
| computer.
|
| If Valve pivoted into making a well-supported laptop with good
| hardware that ran Linux _and_ played games...
| quasigod wrote:
| Just wondering, what games are you playing that dont run on
| Linux yet? I can't think of games I'd play much with family
| that dont work well
| neura wrote:
| I do not believe that _you_ are trolling with this question,
| but answering this is just asking to be trolled.
|
| That said. Fortnite. Yes, I still play it with friends and
| cannot play it on Mac or Linux. :(
|
| I'm sure others have similar examples. Also there are just
| simple things like playing with friends and streaming on
| Discord. Anybody streaming from Windows always comes across
| smooth and HD to the other participants while anybody on
| Linux seems to consistently be received (I don't know where
| exactly in the chain the problem exists, so just "received",
| as it may not be a broadcasting or encoding problem, I'm not
| an expert in this) with a lot of artifacts and lower
| framerates.
| andai wrote:
| A friend of mine, a Linux user, says he installed Windows
| for gaming. Apparently the main issue isn't actual
| compatibility for games, but that a lot of games require
| some kind of kernel level anticheat (rootkit?).
| seabrookmx wrote:
| Yes. Valorant and Battlefield 6, for example.
| cheald wrote:
| Yes, this is broadly true. Just about everything that
| does _not_ have Linux-disabling anticheat runs
| wonderfully on Linux these days. You can check
| https://protondb.com/ to see how any given game runs.
| inexcf wrote:
| Yes and they could just make it(the rootkits) work on
| linux. It's more about the publishers/devs actively
| opposing linux.
| rtkwe wrote:
| Alternatively it's still a pretty small slice of the
| market that's not willing to dual boot for the major
| games that do require windows only anticheats so it's
| just not worth their dev and support time to try to serve
| that small slice. Valve's work on Steam Machines/Decks is
| the thing needed to actually push developers to
| supporting it by providing a relatively consistent target
| OS and a large enough install base to justify spending
| the money to support.
| jsheard wrote:
| The major anti-cheats do support Linux, but it's opt-in
| on the dev side because they're _significantly_ easier to
| bypass than the Windows versions. It 's not even close,
| getting around the Linux ACs is child's play. It sucks
| but nobody really has a good solution yet.
| rtkwe wrote:
| Yep anticheats are one of the big hurdles to 'porting' a
| lot of online focused shooters to linux. It's an
| unfortunate situation but I get it from the company's
| perspective, not having any anticheat leads to shitty
| situations for way more players than not having a linux
| version of their anticheat and a vast majority of players
| have Windows devices or are willing to dual boot.
| grepex wrote:
| This is true. Battlefield 6 is in this boat
| tapland wrote:
| It's a few games, but a few very important ones.
|
| GTAVs online ecosystem with custom servers. Rust hasn't
| enabled Linux Battleye support. Valorant
|
| Some releases that are temporarily popular like BF6,
| playtest of Battleye games where Linux support isn't
| enabled (Fellowship, Exoborne). All games in this
| paragraph also by Swedish developers. Kom igen, linuxstod
| nickstinemates wrote:
| Escape from Tarkov is the only reason I have a Windows
| Hard drive still. It doesn't have anything else on it.
| bigyabai wrote:
| FWIW, PvE and modded Tarkov _does_ actually run fine on
| Linux (Streets map doesn 't, nor does Arena).
|
| It's definitely not the same, but between Arc Raiders and
| PvE I get my extraction shooter fix. Online Tarkov is
| mostly populated by Gaming Wizards(tm) anyways.
| nickstinemates wrote:
| Yes I am playing Arc Raiders now instead of Tarkov
| because switching is not worth it. Until it will be!
| froggit wrote:
| EFT has a pretty ridiculous history with attempts at
| anticheat. Several years ago they set up their servers to
| kick anyone with virtualization enabled because cheaters
| had been using VMs to intercept network traffic (the
| network traffic wasn't encrypted for tarkov then). The
| response from cheaters was to use a seperate bare metal
| build to intercept the traffic. The devs "fixed" it right
| before windows 11 came out with virtualization on by
| default.
| mindcrash wrote:
| Some intrusive ones (EA's anti cheat for recent
| Battlefields, Activision's anti cheat for Call of Duty,
| anything from Riot to name a few) do not work.
|
| However, EAC - who is a major player in this field
| producing generic solutions - _does_ support Linux. The
| involved publisher, however, needs to approve this and
| the developer need to turn on a feature flag. That 's it.
|
| However, some publishers simply deny this for... totally
| mental reasons ...and this means that the game is marked
| as borked in protondb even though the game could as
| easily be played on Linux thanks to EAC's Linux support.
| belthesar wrote:
| "EAC supports Linux, but devs just won't turn it on" is
| the clickbait answer, but the details are more nuanced.
| EAC has multiple security levels that a title can set
| based on the threat model of the game, and most games
| with heavy MTX that use EAC shy away from it, largely
| because Fortnite doesn't do it. EAC is owned by Epic, and
| if Tim Sweeney says that you can't do MTX on Linux
| safely, then any AAA live services game with in-game MTX
| is going to shy away from it, regardless of how true the
| statement actually is.
| duskwuff wrote:
| "MTX" as in, microtransactions?
|
| What do microtransactions have to do with anticheat?
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| granting clientside without paying, things like that
| mindcrash wrote:
| The Finals has mtx, is protected by EAC, and is playable
| on Steam Deck.
|
| Throne and Liberty, which is also protected by EAC and
| has mtx, is also playable on Steam Deck.
|
| So this is bullshit and it clearly shows it's the
| publisher's choice. What Sweeney thinks has nothing to do
| with it.
| quasigod wrote:
| I dont think I'm getting trolled, I know that loads of
| games still dont work. I just wanted to get an idea of
| which games are the current biggest ones holding people
| back.
| thadt wrote:
| Fortnite & Call of Duty
|
| If I could travel back in time and prevent my kids and
| nephews from ever learning about Fortnite, I might do it.
| Instead I'm out here trying to keep from getting sniped by a
| Simpson character.
|
| Fortunately, it seems like the rest of the family is getting
| tired of COD's ceaseless churn, and might be willing to pick
| up something else.
| haunter wrote:
| Fortnite is a fun game though, it's the only game holding
| me back from fully switching to Linux. Cloud streaming just
| doesn't cut it, latency is way too high (+ more money for a
| single game)
| quasigod wrote:
| Ah I had kinda forgotten Fortnite exists haha. I think I
| assumed your kids were younger.
| andoando wrote:
| BF6 and any multiplayer EA games with anticheat
| OGWhales wrote:
| Apex is an EA game and actually ran great on Linux until
| they removed support. Unfortunate, but they said it was
| necessary to combat cheaters though that claim is somewhat
| dubious since cheaters is perfectly viable on Windows
| still.
| seviu wrote:
| FIFA is another one that comes to mind, or however they
| call it these days.
|
| Also from EA
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Battlefield 6, GTA V online, Escape From Tarkov, likely GTA
| VI
|
| Imagine not supporting the latest releases that all your
| friends are playing.
| quasigod wrote:
| Zero of my friends are playing any of these games. GTA VI
| will probably do the console first release thing anyways.
|
| Edit: Fair enough to the other ones though. This comment
| wasnt meant to be inflammatory or argumentative, but
| clearly someone else believed it was.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| What's the point of arguing like this? You're asking for
| experiences from people, then when people give you proper
| answers it glides off with "well no one I know plays
| those anyways". Isn't the discussion larger than your
| personal and private experiences, if you're discussing in
| public like this?
|
| You seemed to have some initial claim that "all games
| actually work perfectly fine, prove me wrong" but then
| you don't seem to actually want to engage faithfully
| anyways.
| navigate8310 wrote:
| They think HN is Reddit, notorious with its flaming war
| Whinner wrote:
| Steam Box 2 will be out before GTA VI
| Ferret7446 wrote:
| Depends on your friend group; statistically speaking
| they're more like to play ARC raiders than EFT which does
| run on Linux
| barbazoo wrote:
| Trying to get RDR2 to work on Linux, so far no luck.
| delduca wrote:
| I play it on Linux, try Proton hotfix.
| remuskaos wrote:
| I've played it on the Steamdeck without issue.
| OGWhales wrote:
| For me it's only games the specifically don't support Linux,
| which are mostly competitive multiplayer games with anti-
| cheat software. Apex Legends used to work great on Linux, but
| they removed support as an attempt to combat cheaters (there
| are still tons of cheaters).
| AndroidKitKat wrote:
| In addition to what others have said, a group of friends
| still plays enough League of Legends that I don't both dual
| booting. Also if you play RuneScape (RS3, not OSRS) the best
| 3rd party add-on, Alt1 Toolkit, only works on Windows.
| dmoy wrote:
| For me the thing that pushed me to reinstall windows after I
| got a cheap $10 copy was Kerbal Space Program. Though, in my
| specific case I strongly suspect it was older hardware &
| driver issues than anything else, since I've not had any
| major problems on steam deck.
|
| I do have more random crashes on certain games even on steam
| deck, but not as bad as Kerbal Space Program on my old (12
| yr) desktop.
|
| Factorio seems to work better on Linux. Which is both good
| and bad (since it's so addictive).
| SirMaster wrote:
| Battlefield, Call of Duty, Apex Legends, PUBG, Rainbow 6
| Siege, Fortnite
|
| Basically all the games I play regularly with my friends.
| InvertedRhodium wrote:
| Microsoft Flight Simulator
| ugurcant wrote:
| I was in the same shoes, then one day I decided to give a shot
| to Bazzite. To my surprise the installation was extremely
| smooth, and everything worked right away. Now I'm playing
| almost everything on it (Arc Raiders, EU V, HLL and Horizon FW
| recently). If you want to _try_ all you need is 15 minutes,
| some HDD space and an empty USB. You don't have to give up
| Windows at all, dual booting is also pretty smooth.
| gpderetta wrote:
| I have a bazzite box connected behind my TV. Even with a non
| optimal choice of graphic card (an old Nvidia) it works
| better than I was expecting.
| Whinner wrote:
| I also bit the bullet and did a bazzite install and am
| blown away how seamless it has been for what I need. All
| the games I like run on Steam. Even Diablo 4 runs through
| the Blizzard launcher which does take some work to get
| installed, but nothing you can't find in a youtube video.
|
| No issues using the system as my daily driver for personal
| things. I have dual monitors, one oriented vertically and
| one 144hz. All works great! I'd recommend it to anyone
| aryonoco wrote:
| The whole Universal Blue image ecosystem is so polished,
| consistent and coherent. Bazzite is their gaming image
| variant, I've also recently switched to Bluefin which is
| their Gnome variant on my workstation and everything
| works so nicely together, it's the most joy I've had
| using a computer in a long time.
| barbazoo wrote:
| Loved the concept, tried it out, didn't work, at least not
| for RDR2 which I was trying to play. But how would it work,
| there is Linux, Bazzite, then there is Steam, RDR2 needs the
| Rockstar launcher, it's such an intricate web of
| dependencies, I'm not surprised something isn't working.
| computerex wrote:
| RDR2 has a gold rating:
| https://www.protondb.com/app/1174180
|
| It should work with some tinkering.
| lbschenkel wrote:
| I have finished RDR2 on Bazzite (story mode), zero issues.
| amlib wrote:
| When silly DRM or a game launcher is all that is keeping
| you from enjoying a game, that is when you get the pirated
| version without any of this bs and enjoy it without
| remorse.
| Wojtkie wrote:
| RDR2 works great on my AMD Linux machine.
| nicolaslem wrote:
| I used to also have a dedicated Windows machine just for
| gaming, but two years ago I formatted the Windows drive and put
| SteamOS (via ChimeraOS) instead. I can legitimately say that it
| has been more stable than running the same games on Windows.
| Just flawless.
| com2kid wrote:
| I've been using Pop_OS, buggy as hell but steam games work
| great!
|
| Everything is kinda a dumpster fire, but they nailed steam
| games.
| quasigod wrote:
| Pop_OS is pretty rough. Theyre running on a super outdated
| base while working on COSMIC
| com2kid wrote:
| The pop shop app being single threaded is just
| embarrassing. Do a search, the entire UI freezes up until
| the search is complete.
|
| Also updates regularly break my KDE session and I have to
| restart my display server.
|
| Sometimes I have to switch to a tty and back to my
| graphical console to get my display back.
|
| It is a mess all around.
|
| I haven't managed to get my GPU working in Docker, ugh.
|
| That said, it does work. Mostly.
| catears wrote:
| Like other commenters, I also recently made the switch. Figured
| I would dual-boot windows but have never needed to boot it back
| up again.
|
| ProtonDB is a goldmine when a game doesn't work. Oh, and
| switching from Nvidia GPU to AMD GPU seems to have worked great
| to get games to "just work".
| agentifysh wrote:
| one limitation for Bazzite for instance would be some titles
| that require anti-cheating won't work but just like OP, only
| use case I have for windows is gaming and running some
| banking app which won't work on non-Windows device
|
| love to see more and more users realize they can game just
| fine on linux
| drnick1 wrote:
| It's time to stop buying such games and send game studios a
| signal that we won't tolerate rootkits and/or closed
| platforms. Anti-cheats should run server-side, or better
| yet, servers should be community-operated. I would probably
| bought BF6, but since I exclusively use Arch, EA lost a
| sale -- too bad for them there are thousands of other games
| that work flawlessly on Linux.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| This promises 4k 60fps gaming and Valve is good with hardware,
| so this is an immediate buy from me if it's under 1000EUR
|
| No need to mess around building a gaming PC anymore.
| seanalltogether wrote:
| Same, if they also released something like a Steam Machine Pro
| with more ram+vram and bit higher specs I would instantly
| purchase it. Nvidia and AMD have been rightly criticized for
| releasing 8GB video cards in the past year and valve shouldn't
| be immune to that criticism.
| kulahan wrote:
| Extremely hard pass on a laptop. They already have the steam
| deck, and now they have this. Whether you want it portable or
| not, there are options. Laptops always end up being just...
| _so_ disappointing.
| lenerdenator wrote:
| To the HL3 faithful, this is your reminder that
|
| _NOTHING_
|
| _EVER_
|
| _HAPPENS_
| rawling wrote:
| This is the speculated-about gap in the Steam store events,
| then?
| 12_throw_away wrote:
| In this big hardware refresh, honestly most excited about finally
| getting a new steam controller [1], which feels like it might
| finally give us a better, more extensible standard than the
| extremely outdated XInput protocol (which still doesn't even
| support motion controls)
|
| [1] https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamcontroller
| LelouBil wrote:
| I'm just hoping it has a standalone "pretend it is an
| xbox/generic controller" mode that doesn't rely on steam, so I
| can bring it to friends easily.
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| No mention of dual stage trigger though, which was my cheat
| code in rocket league to have one button for accelerate and
| boost
| nisegami wrote:
| Hoping it's there just not mentioned.
| opan wrote:
| This controller seems more like it's going for parity with
| the Deck, which doesn't have dual stage triggers. I
| wouldn't get your hopes up.
| WXLCKNO wrote:
| Wow lol. I just posted the exact same comment, there are
| dozens of us! I literally cannot play rocket league without
| the steam controller for this reason.
|
| Also set rotate left and right to the grip triggers (roll in
| aviation terms I guess).
| pythonaut_16 wrote:
| Steamdeck has the dual stage triggers right? (Though maybe
| just in software?) I'd be shocked if the new controller is
| less capable than that.
| jorvi wrote:
| You can set a dual-stage trigger in Steam Input binding with
| any controller its trigger range, its not something unique to
| the Steam Controller.
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| Sure, but having a tactile bump in the travel makes it that
| much easier. I can see the argument that it might seem
| overcomplicated or confusing to typical users though.
| jorvi wrote:
| If we get really lucky, some gamer dev will look at the
| Sony DualSense driver (yes, they wrote and upstreamed an
| official one) and figure out a way on how to shim /
| expose the adaptive triggers to Steam Input bindings.
| fwip wrote:
| I wonder if the haptics are programmable enough to
| simulate that.
| 12_throw_away wrote:
| In my dream world, hardware enthusiasts would be constantly
| creating absolutely crazy game controllers with bizarre
| combinations of inputs that look nothing like an xbox 360
| controller. There'd be a universal input protocol that would
| allow for self-describing gamepads with arbitrary numbers of
| digital buttons, analog sticks and triggers, touchpads, mouse
| inputs, haptics, gyro sensors, levers, sliders, wheels, etc.
| etc.
|
| I realize this may not be practical, but it's kind of weird
| that PCs have been more or less stuck with a protocol designed
| for XBox 360 controllers for 2 decades now, while the locked-
| down console space is seeing much more experimentation and
| innovation around input. The original steam controller at least
| hinted at being sort of an open platform for this sort of
| thing, although it didn't really take off. Fingers crossed for
| the new version.
| rtkwe wrote:
| It's because the two-thumbstick, 8 face buttons, 2 shoulder
| and 2 trigger form factor covers so many games there's not
| been a real reason for super wacky controllers. They kind of
| hit it out of the park on the 360 design and the only real
| sticking point left is the exact ergonomics which mostly fall
| into the PS thumbstick position (both lower) vs XBox position
| (left high and right low).
| likeclockwork wrote:
| The Xbox controller doesn't even have a gyro. Xbox
| controller design is completely stagnant.
| jorvi wrote:
| Gyro aiming being on all 3 console platforms would be
| such a huge boon, because then it could finally get
| implemented in every shooter. And they could start
| heavily nerfing the frankly ridiculous aim assist that
| controllers currently get.
|
| Back buttons would be another nice one. Right now there's
| just 2-4 buttons too few on controllers, and it often
| leads to strange button mappings that either shift with
| context or require multi-button activations, which gets
| even more annoying if you have to do it during, say, a
| jump.
| rtkwe wrote:
| Is that something people are actually asking for? I don't
| think I've heard of anyone actually pushing for gyro
| aiming in major shooters like COD, Fortnite etc.
| likeclockwork wrote:
| It's one of those things that people who haven't
| experienced simply wouldn't know to ask for. Wii had
| motion aiming but it was more of a gimmick, it wasn't
| until playing FPS games on the first Steam Controller
| that I, personally, realized how much more playable and
| comfortable gyro aiming made these games-- coming from
| mouse+keyboard, I found fine-aiming challenges on
| thumbsticks to be very uncomfortable.
|
| Gyro aiming completely solves both fine aiming and
| tracking aim on a gamepad when paired with some kind of
| touch sensitive control for enabling the gyro (natural
| recentering).
|
| In console FPSes they just automatically track the enemy
| if they're near your crosshair and call it a day-- giving
| everyone an aimbot instead of solving the UX issue.
| rtkwe wrote:
| I've tried Gyro aiming and could not get used to it even
| in games where it's the 'superior' choice like my brief
| daliance with Splatoon.
| keyringlight wrote:
| One big reason would be that the 360 controller was when
| they first made it standard USB to connect, and introduced
| Xinput with the standard set of inputs for games to target.
| I expect most gamers wouldn't find it pleasant if they had
| to assign buttons and axis before the joypad would be
| active/useful, then hitting play and trying to remember
| what JOY_5 mapped to as used to be needed with directinput.
| dezgeg wrote:
| USB HID actually works pretty much how you describe, for
| instance a Physical Descriptor can contain metadata about
| which body part a button/control is supposed to be used with.
|
| It's extremely complicated however (like many things USB),
| which is probably why everything just emulates an XBox 360
| controller like you said.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| SInput recently released and got supported by SDL, which plenty
| of games, but also Steam Input uses. So you can already use
| SInput in Steam Input. Better than XInput for sure.
|
| https://docs.handheldlegend.com/s/sinput/doc/sinput-hid-prot...
|
| I don't think Steam has ever published specs for their
| protocol. And without Steam, their old controller would
| fallback to a mouse/keyboard mode. The Linux kernel drivers
| (that didn't require Steam) were reverse engineered. Hori
| released a Steam Controller recently. Even that still had an
| XInput fallback switch.
| torginus wrote:
| Isn't the lack of extensibility kind of the point?
|
| It forces everyone to make the same controller, so the
| developer knows what the user will have.
| WXLCKNO wrote:
| I love my OG steam controller still. I can't tell if this new
| one has the dual stage triggers like the og (like if there's an
| additional click on full trigger pull).
|
| I used that to set things like boost in rocket League and it
| felt super intuitive.
| esskay wrote:
| According to digital foundry it does have dual stage triggers
| bargainbin wrote:
| First thing I checked for! I feel like it's such a niche
| feature but also distinctive. It's actually a "necessity" for
| a proper Gamecube emulation experience, which has the two
| stage shoulder buttons.
|
| Like you, I also used this for boost on Rocket League and it
| was surprisingly intuitive. You can map it to the triggers
| lowest threshold to emulate it but without the tactile bump
| to rest against it just won't work.
| WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
| The trackpads are a deal breaker for me
|
| They should have put them just above the joysticks, like the
| PS5 controller
|
| Better, they should have made them detachable with a magnet,
| similar to the Switch JoyCon's system, what a missed
| opportunity
| Yokolos wrote:
| > They should have put them just above the joysticks, like
| the PS5 controller
|
| I don't understand how that would be in any way ergonomic.
| The new Steam Controller's layout has a proven track record
| with the Steam Deck, which is essentially identical. It
| allows you to play KB&M games like Alpha Centauri on the
| Steam Deck without any external peripherals. It would be
| utterly unplayable if the trackpads were in the same place as
| the PS5's pad, which is basically just used to open a menu or
| map or for gimmicky in-game gestures.
| fwip wrote:
| I found the original Steam Controller's trackpad placement to
| be just about perfect.
| jorvi wrote:
| It looks way too chunky, just like the original Steam
| Controller, Steam Deck or original duke Xbox controller. Not
| everybody has Jack Reacher hands.
|
| Microsoft really did it right with the XSX controller. They
| took the old X360 / Xone design (perfect for large and medium
| hands) shrunk it slightly and then added cut-outs and and
| angled button surfaces (perfect for medium and small hands).
| The Elite is similarly good, with the back buttons being
| elongated and thin, meaning everyone can reach them comfortably
| without them getting in the way.
| lawn wrote:
| My kids have been using the steam deck since they were 3
| years old. Granted, their hands were a bit too small but the
| Deck is way more manageable than it appears.
| hurricanepootis wrote:
| I own a steam controller and have been using it for multiple
| years. It's actually really comfortable with the way it sits
| in my hand. Far more comfortable than whatever sony had going
| on with the PS4 dualsense stuff
| archon810 wrote:
| Maybe in size, but at least by weight, it's not bad at all.
|
| Steam Controller weight: 292g.
|
| Nintendo Switch 2 controller: 235g.
|
| Sony Playstation 5 DualSense controller: 280g. DualSense
| Edge: 322g.
|
| Xbox Wireless controller: 280g. Wireless Elite series 2:
| 345g.
| pixelready wrote:
| Same here. The trackpads on the steam deck work great. Might
| get this for docked mode. Kinda wish a splittable controller
| was more common for ergonomics ( not great to be clenching your
| chest on a centered object like that for hours on end, similar
| to non-split keyboards ). Seems like split controllers are
| still reserved for VR and nintendo switch style systems for
| now...
| archon810 wrote:
| I've been using a Stadia controller with my Steam Deck OLED but
| finally it'll have a worthy upgrade.
| clvx wrote:
| Valve, please partner with Framework. I think this could be a
| great partnership in the future and the whole ecosystem as a
| whole.
| lavela wrote:
| Did Framework ever distance themselves from Omarchy after the
| whole discussion in October? Otherwise I hope and expect Steam
| to know better than to align themselves with Framework.
| richwater wrote:
| Any additional context for those out of the loop?
| KopyWasTaken wrote:
| This was the first blog that I found on the matter:
| https://gardinerbryant.com/the-omarchy-framework-thing/
|
| tldr; DHH is a controversial figure, and Framework are
| latching onto Omarchy. I think some folks think that
| Framework's image is being tarnished by working with DHH.
| ap2025 wrote:
| DHH is a controversial figure who increasingly comes out as
| tone deaf and perpetuating reactionary myths. It's not new
| either.
|
| https://davidcel.is/articles/rails-needs-new-governance
| https://blogs.library.duke.edu/blog/2023/11/30/why-were-
| drop...
| Spivak wrote:
| It really is so sad to see people get sucked into the
| alt-right pipeline and not even realize it despite it
| being so obvious from the outside that it's happening.
| For all his talk on indoctrination it's weird to suddenly
| have very specific opinions on a bunch of unrelated
| topics you have no personal involvement in, no expertise
| in, and tangible connection to.
|
| Except of course that despite these issues not moving the
| needle on basically anything in daily life they are part
| of a grand conspiracy corrupt society in some nonspecific
| way and must be eradicated. In a way I really can't blame
| any individual because there's very little in the way of
| defenses against it but it's sad to see the cocktail of
| intelligence, arrogance, and fame mean that no one will
| ever be successful at pulling him out.
| zcdziura wrote:
| Why would Framework "distance" themselves from Omarchy?
| What's a Linux distro got to do with anything?
| latexr wrote:
| The problem is not the distro per se, but the person behind
| it.
|
| https://jakelazaroff.com/words/dhh-is-way-worse-than-i-
| thoug...
|
| https://gardinerbryant.com/the-omarchy-framework-thing/
| lawlessone wrote:
| Unfortunately that is no longer an issue for many people.
| pie_flavor wrote:
| Valve most likely cares about more relevant things than
| idiotic Internet shitfights, such as functional technology,
| or paying customers.
| bogwog wrote:
| What would a Framework partnership accomplish? Ship SteamOS as
| a preinstalled option for their laptops?
| robotnikman wrote:
| That actually would be a cool idea and doable.
| justinsaccount wrote:
| You seem to be forgetting the framework desktop which is very
| similar in form factor to the new steam machine:
| https://frame.work/desktop
| SunshineTheCat wrote:
| Being able to play PC-ish games without Windows (all on its own)
| makes this pretty interesting. Looking forward to seeing its real
| world performance. The fact that it doesn't take up the space of
| a household appliance is a plus too.
| dmix wrote:
| You can do that today with a Steam Deck + a dock. The
| performance is surprisingly good and most higher end games you
| buy on Steam will come with pre-configured steam deck settings
| to downgrade video settings if needed.
|
| I'm going to be buying the box though for the faster AMD chip,
| as I wasn't able to play some like Resident Evil 2 remake.
| While the Silent Hill 2 Remake played decent enough.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| What exactly do you mean by "pc-ish"? Setting aside steam deck,
| are you aware that you can already install steam on linux and
| play many games [0]? Are you aware of Bazzite [1]?
|
| 0 - https://www.protondb.com/
|
| 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazzite_(operating_system)
| bongodongobob wrote:
| Long time veteran Linux user. I was not able to get anything
| to run on Steam. It's some sort of display driver
| issue/conflict, but if it takes me longer than an hour, I'm
| over it.
| 9029 wrote:
| This is exactly where Bazzite is convenient since it comes
| with the latest drivers (including 32-bit) out of the box.
| daedrdev wrote:
| A mainstream desktop PC that supports most games without windows
| is actually a massive deal in the long term as I know plenty of
| people who don't like windows but didn't have an alternative
| thot_experiment wrote:
| > Who are we to tell you how to use your computer?
|
| i'm having a hard time describing the feelings this makes me
| feel. like i've been stressed, bedraggled and worn down, and
| suddenly there's a moment where i can just rest
|
| it's nice to be excited about something for once instead of the
| baseline expectation of a horrible adversarial experience, which
| is the case for most tech in 2025
|
| it is somewhat depressing that it's this novel to expect a piece
| of hardware to actually exist to make my life nicer vs the
| default of being an abomination that tries constantly to extract
| money and information from me like a fucking vampire
|
| (and i guess, not having used this yet, this also speaks to valve
| being one of the last companies that i have any trust in to be
| capable of making a business decision that makes them less money
| in the short run in order to deliver a better product)
| keyringlight wrote:
| An ongoing 'background noise' concern I've had for a while is
| how PC gaming seems to be centralizing around steam. There's
| reasons why that happened, but it'd be real nice if
| 'infrastructure' was able to decouple from their store. It
| feels like practically requiring steam for PC gaming on windows
| and certainly on linux isn't a mile away from requiring MS
| windows, is it much freedom to pick which Seattle based company
| you run software from?
| daedrdev wrote:
| There are plenty of competing stores, they just aren't good.
| I require a game to be on steam because I like the store and
| features, but many games are also sold elsewhere.
| thot_experiment wrote:
| I don't think there's NO reason to be concerned, but I think
| it's pretty different considering the decades of history of
| how Valve acts vs how M$FT acts. Also, many games available
| on Steam are DRM free or available from other sources and
| Proton itself is open source.
|
| Valve is also not publicly traded and they have a succession
| plan of some sort in the event that gaben kicks it, I can
| only assume whatever he's come up with is sound, he's done a
| great job of running the place so far.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| > There's reasons why that happened
|
| Steam's near-monopoly was earned by simply being the best
| store. Other stores like Epic don't even include _basic_
| features like a shopping cart to buy multiple games at once.
|
| I could go on and on about why Steam is so much better than
| any other store, but this isn't the place.
|
| That said, I can understand being nervous. Steam is great
| because it's privately owned and GabeN is happy with the
| money he makes from it and doesn't feel the need to
| enshittify it in order to get more money. But eventually he
| will die or retire, and someone else will be given control.
| Supposedly, he's already vetted some people to take the job,
| but what's to say they weren't merely playing the part and
| will take it public as soon as they can?
| fngjdflmdflg wrote:
| The built in Steam DRM is very weak. Of course that can
| change at any time, but at least the current catalog of Steam
| DRM-only games are not really tied down to steam except via
| law/licensing.
| engeljohnb wrote:
| Valve earned a lot of goodwill from me when I set up my docked
| steam deck as my main media player & gaming device. It required
| me to do a lot of little hacks. I was doing stuff the device
| wasn't meant to do, but it never put up road blocks just
| because I wasn't allowed to do it. Not like when I want to do
| simple things on my wife's macbook.
| Lapra wrote:
| Steam is a service that's been running for >20 years and
| somehow hasn't been enshittified (although, I suppose when it
| first appeared it was seen as enshittification). It's worth
| celebrating, to be honest.
| ranger207 wrote:
| A couple weeks ago Amazon said something about "we were trying
| to compete with Steam and even with all our resources nobody
| noticed" and that made me realize something: ideally, companies
| with similar products and services compete on features and
| cost, but nowadays the big tech providers compete more on lock
| in than anything else. But in the market of video game retail
| stores the competition _is_ on features and price, because
| Steam competes on those terms (ref gaben's famous quote "piracy
| is a service problem"; they're even competing and succeeding
| against free products)
| butlike wrote:
| Plot twist, Valve AI will syphon all your user metrics into
| Valve's new model. J/k and all joking aside, I feel the same
| way. Feels like a love letter to gamers
| kreco wrote:
| I just need more RAM. 16GB is unfortunately not enough for me.
|
| With some luck it would be easy to upgrade ourselves.
| ark4n wrote:
| One more nail in the coffin of the xbox hardware business. Ouch.
| franczesko wrote:
| Unless MS opens up Xboxes for actual gamers (which won't
| happen). Pity, as Series X is very capable
| TheCoreh wrote:
| Very weird USB-C port placement choices...
|
| - 2 USB3-A on the front
|
| - 2 USB2-A on the back
|
| - 1 USB-C on the back
|
| If you want to plug an external USB hard drive or SSD at full
| speed, you'll need to plug it at the front? Or use up the only
| USB-C port...
|
| I suspect most joysticks sold today come with a USB-C to USB-C
| cable, so if you want to charge your controller you either need
| to plug on the back, use an adapter, or get a USB-A to USB-C
| cable?
|
| Also the single USB-C port isn't Thunderbolt/USB4, and they're
| only including gigabit ethernet, which is disappointing but
| perhaps understandable if they're trying to keep it at a low
| price.
| stetrain wrote:
| Most gaming peripherals still seem to use USB-A on the computer
| end for cables and dongles.
|
| Current Xbox and PS5 controllers charge with a USB-C port on
| the controller end but a USB-A port where the plug into the
| console.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| For controllers you can use any cable you want. The Xbox
| controller will charge just fine on a C-C cable. I don't
| think they should have gone all in on USB-C like laptops
| have, but there should have been more than one USB-C and one
| should have been on the front. Pretty much the only thing you
| need USB-A for these days is mice/keyboard with non removable
| cables. Which are becoming increasingly rare.
| ortusdux wrote:
| Could it be a synergy with the Steam Frame's dual band wireless
| dongle? I'm guessing they would really want users to plug that
| into the front of the device.
| MomsAVoxell wrote:
| I suspect it'll be like the Mac mini situation, and the after-
| market USB hubs that fit the form factor will expand rapidly ..
| 0x457 wrote:
| It would be a case if it had I/O like Mac mini. Like if it
| had TB3/TB4/USB4 somewhere, it doesn't.
| dmix wrote:
| most of the usecase is going to be keyboard, mouse, and
| bluetooth headset dongles. All three of mine attached to my
| Steam Deck dock are USB-A.
|
| although I own a bunch of those usb-a->c attachments you plug
| on the end, so it wouldnt make much difference
| vel0city wrote:
| > bluetooth headset dongles
|
| I imagine this has decent Bluetooth support out of the box
| even if not mentioned? Its hard to find a WiFi chipset these
| days that _doesn 't_ have some kind of Bluetooth support.
|
| Maybe _proprietary_ headset dongles, but if its just
| bluetooth its probably not needed.
| rtkwe wrote:
| You'd be wrong C to A is still pretty standard for controllers
| in my experience.
|
| As for gigabit fewer and fewer people have ethernet routed to
| their office/TV area much less >1gig networking to take
| advantage of anything better than a 1 gig.
| tagyro wrote:
| mmm ...let's agree to disagree
|
| I wired my whole place with 10Gb - couldn't do it in the wall
| (as in, hidden) so I have flat cables around the door frame
| and wall corners. I was willing to accept the cables, just to
| get 10Gb.
|
| And, IMHO, it's worth it.
| rtkwe wrote:
| Not sure what we're disagreeing about, I'm not saying it's
| not a useful thing to have just that most people don't have
| it and don't intend to have it so it's not a useful spec
| bump for Valve to spend money on.
|
| I'm personally planning on going through the pain to get
| ethernet run (luckily I have both a basement and an attic
| so it should be fairly easy) in my house and if I ever
| build new there will be whatever is the best standard at
| the time in the walls (and maybe some dark fiber but I'm
| less sure on that) but I also know I'm a vast minority of
| users at the same time. I'm also in a pretty big minority
| having a >1 gig symmetrical pipe into my house to make a 10
| gig connection to my devices actually worth while.
| tagyro wrote:
| I must have misunderstood - I prefer ethernet over wifi
| and I took your comment as more favourable towards wifi -
| in that case, my bad ^^
| rtkwe wrote:
| My setup is far from my ideal one so I'm on wifi for a
| lot of things but I was just pointing out the business
| reasons they probably went with the 1 gig port, there's
| just not that many people who are looking for or could
| take advantage of a 1 gig port.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| You could probably connect a 10gbit usb adapter to the
| USB-C port on this thing for this use case.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| The steam controller also revealed has a USB-C, as does
| Hori's official steam controller.
|
| However, you can charge it from things that aren't USB ports.
| Charging bricks are cheap and most people have one for their
| phone now, except some unfortunate old iPhone users
| rtkwe wrote:
| Yes but the cord it comes with will likely be a C to A
| cable. A lot of controllers have come with USB-C ports on
| them now but ship with C to A cables. Microsoft, Sony,
| 8Bitdo; all controllers I've gotten that have a C port but
| came with the usb-a for the PC/charger end.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| I agree that gigabit Ethernet is adequate for the type of
| product this is. But I do find it funny that the Wifi chip on
| this is very likely capable of 2Gbit. We somehow entered a
| world where WiFi is typically faster than Ethernet.
| preston4tw wrote:
| Valve / Steam presumably has good data on what controllers and
| peripherals people are using, so I'd imagine their port choices
| are based around that. Here's a June 2024 post talking about
| Steam Input and controller market share:
| https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail...
| . At the time of the post they say "59% of sessions are using
| Xbox controllers, 26% are using PlayStation controllers, 10%
| are on Steam Decks"
| ivanjermakov wrote:
| Steam input controller says nothing about the interface being
| used (USB A vs USB C). A single USB C (with DP support, I
| hope) port in 2026 sounds like a bad design.
| TiredOfLife wrote:
| It's an old semi-custom semi-discontinued laptop soc.
| viraptor wrote:
| What do you expect to do with the steam machine that will take
| more than a gigabit? I mean, it's cool when things are faster,
| but if you can saturate the link, downloads are still
| bottlenecked by the drives. And even 4k streaming is under
| 100Mbit normally.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| > And even 4k streaming is under 100Mbit normally
|
| Are you talking "4k streaming" as the current streaming
| providers do it, with trash bitrate, or "4k streaming" as you
| would do it if you had ripped your own blu-ray disks and you
| want to stream it from a NAS somewhere else in your house to
| your living room?
| viraptor wrote:
| The extreme high quality blurays are going up to 144Mbps or
| so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_HD_Blu-ray Still
| nowhere near a gigabit.
| shdjhdfh wrote:
| The highest bitrate UHD Blu-ray supports is 144mbit/s:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_HD_Blu-ray. A one
| gigabit NIC is not even close to the biggest compromise on
| this system.
| pvillano wrote:
| "the average bitrate for a 4K Blu-ray DVD can range between
| 48Mbps to 75Mbps. Some discs can also carry around 100Mbps
| or even 128Mbps, but these are more rare."
|
| https://www.tomsguide.com/tvs/forget-streaming-services-
| here...
| daveoc64 wrote:
| I can download at approximately 2.5 Gbps from Steam on my PC.
|
| I think not having a 2.5 gigabit port at least is a poor
| choice.
| monocasa wrote:
| A lot of devices that you commonly plug and unplug like flash
| drives and passkeys still make sense as USB-A for a lot of
| people because of the specifics of the USB spec.
|
| C to A converters for devices are technically verboten since
| they would allow an enduser to make a A to A cable, which can
| fry hosts if you plug them into eachother if they don't support
| USB OTG. You can lose certification if you try to ship a device
| with a C to A converter.
|
| Because of that, USB-A devices with an optional A to C
| converter (or neater devices that have both plugs on them
| natively) are what makes a lot of sense for a lot of people for
| the kinds of devices that live on a key chain. So it makes
| sense for that to be the default on the front of a desktop,
| IMO.
| 0x457 wrote:
| Most controller/headphone dongles come with USB-A, so 2.0 in
| the back makes sense. Radio for new steam controller is
| integrated.
|
| I have a Y-splitter for my PS5 controllers and if I didn't, I
| would have had some sort of controller dock. I assume I would
| do the same for this. Either way, TV is too far from my couch
| for a cable, so I wanted to keep playing and charging I'd use a
| powerbank from my coffee table.
|
| Gigabit Ethernet...that's sad, I'd take 2.5G, so I can better
| stream my legally ripped Blu-rays. I assume most people don't
| care because they would use Wi-Fi or their switch only goes to
| 1G. Better than JBL making android TV sound bar with 100mpbs.
|
| I think it purposely designed, so you don't try to build a NAS
| on it.
| rtpg wrote:
| > I suspect most joysticks sold today come with a USB-C to
| USB-C cable
|
| while things can be charged with USB-C cables, the only thing
| I've ever received A C-to-C cable is... a USB-C wall charger.
| Granted I haven't gotten a USB-C iPhhone yet and I gotta
| imagine that one is C-to-C.
|
| Generally lots of pack-in cables I've seen in the wild for
| charging devices continue to be USB-A-to-C. Switch 2 ports are
| USB-A, PS5 front port is USB-A... we're still getting there.
| JMiao wrote:
| I think the decision of usb2-a at the rear is for wireless
| keyboard and mouse adapters. Those ones can behave abnormally
| on usb3-a, plus it's nice to have those ugly adapters out of
| sight.
| hebejebelus wrote:
| Very interesting! The one killer issue that jumps to mind is
| anti-cheat. I switched away from gaming on Linux via Proton to
| gaming on Windows because Battlefield 6's anti-cheat won't work
| under Proton. Many games are like this, particularly some of the
| most popular (Rainbow 6 Siege for instance). And BF6 made this
| decision only recently despite the growing number of Steam Deck
| players (and other players on linux - in fairness I don't think
| there would have been that many BF6 players on a handheld).
|
| Edit: I specifically use a gaming-only PC. The hardware is used
| for nothing else. Hence, discussions of rootkits don't really
| bother me personally much and on balance I'd really rather see
| fewer cheaters in my games. I think it would be the same with any
| of these machines - anything Steam-branded is likely to be a 99%
| gaming machine and their users will only care that their games
| work, not about the mechanisms of the anti-cheat software.
| hananova wrote:
| All Valve has to do is say "Your software cannot deliberately
| exclude linux support including kernel anti-cheat to be listed
| on Steam." And that would be that, the few devs big enough to
| make it on their own would leave, and everyone else would
| adapt.
| pityJuke wrote:
| Worth noting: Valve's own first party tournaments for their
| own game require kernel level anti-cheat (from a third party
| vendor). Valve themselves have given up on allowing players
| in their own title play competitively in a Valve sponsored
| event with a kernel level anti-cheat. I can't imagine they'd
| ever be this brash.
|
| There is no adapting without a proper solution for securing
| game integrity.
| Goronmon wrote:
| Is there an feasible alternative to "kernel anti-cheat"
| available on Linux?
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| There isn't.
|
| When it comes to anti-cheat on Linux, it's basically an
| elephant in the room that nobody wants to address.
|
| Anti-cheat on Linux would need root access to have _any_
| effectiveness. Alternatively, you 'd need to be running a
| custom kernel with anti-cheat built into it.
|
| This is the part of the conversation where someone says
| anti-cheat needs to be server-side, but that's an
| incredibly naive and poorly thought out idea. You can't
| prevent aim-bots server-side. You can't even _detect_ aim-
| bots server-side. At best, you could come up with
| heuristics to determine if someone 's possibly cheating,
| but you'd probably have a very hard time distinguishing
| between a cheater and a highly skilled player.
|
| Something I think the anti-anti-cheat people fail to
| recognize is that _cheaters don 't care about their cheats
| requiring root/admin_, which makes it _trivial_ to evade
| anti-cheat that only runs with user-level permissions.
|
| When it comes to cheating in games, there are two options:
|
| 1. Anti-cheat runs as admin/root/rootkit/SYSTEM/etc.
|
| 2. The games you play have tons of cheaters.
|
| You can't have it both ways: No cheaters and anti-cheat
| runs with user-level permissions.
| likeclockwork wrote:
| I'm not letting a game company have root on my PC. How
| does that kind of exposure for something as frivolous as
| gaming even make sense?
| 0x457 wrote:
| That's how gaming on windows work. You're a minority with
| that opinion.
| paxys wrote:
| Something that is "frivolous" to you is a passion or even
| a profession for others. Competitive gaming is a massive
| market worldwide, and it wouldn't exist without the
| ability to enforce a level playing field. Not everything
| has to be a holy FOSS war.
| likeclockwork wrote:
| "holy FOSS war"?
|
| Why not have a commissar sit behind every gamer to make
| sure they're not cheating?
|
| That's a startling degree of access to give to these
| people for access to cosmetic micro-transactions.
|
| But, I guess if all your friends are snorting coke in an
| alley, FOMO will have you right there with them.
| Brybry wrote:
| I don't fully agree with the 1 and 2 dichotomy. For
| example, before matchmaking-based games became so popular
| a lot of our competitive games were on dedicated servers.
|
| On dedicated servers we had a self-policing community
| with a smaller pool of more regular players and cheaters
| were less of an issue. Sure, some innocents got banned
| and less blatant cheaters slipped through but the main
| issue of cheaters is when they destroy fun for everyone
| else.
|
| So, for example, with the modern matchmaking systems they
| could do person verification instead of machine
| verification. Such as how some South Korean games require
| a resident registration number to play.
|
| Then when people get banned (or probably better,
| shadowbanned/low priority queued) by player reports or
| weaker anti-cheat they can't easily ban evade. But of
| course then there is the issue of incentivizing identity
| theft.
|
| And I don't think giving a gaming company my PII is any
| better than giving them root on my machine. But that
| seems more like an implementation issue.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| Except most anti-cheats started on dedicated servers
| because it turns out most people are not interested in
| policing other players.
|
| Punkbuster was developed for Team Fortress Classic, even
| getting officially added to Quake 3 Arena. BattleEye for
| Battlefield games. EasyAntiCheat for Counter-Strike. I
| even remember Starcraft 1 ICCUP 3rd party servers having
| an anti-cheat they called 'anti-hack'.
|
| You can still see this today with modern dedicated
| servers in CS2: Face-It and ESEA have additional anti-
| cheat, not less. Even modded 3rd party server FiveM for
| GTAV has their own anti-cheat called adhesive.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| > So, for example, with the modern matchmaking systems
| they could do person verification instead of machine
| verification. Such as how some South Korean games require
| a resident registration number to play.
|
| If you think the hate for anti-cheat is bad, just wait
| until you see the hate for identity verification.
|
| I'm actually rather blown away that you would even
| suggest it.
| vel0city wrote:
| > For example, before matchmaking-based games became so
| popular a lot of our competitive games were on dedicated
| servers.
|
| I still had a lot of problems with cheaters during this
| time. And when the admins aren't on you're still then at
| the whims of cheaters until you go find some other
| playground to play in.
|
| And then on top of that you have the challenge of
| actually finding good servers to go join a game with
| similarly skilled players, especially when trying to play
| with a group of friends together. Trying to get all your
| friends on to the same team just for the server to auto-
| balance you again because the server has no concept of
| parties sucked. Finding a good server with the right mods
| or maps you're looking for, trying to join right when a
| round started, etc was always quite a mess.
|
| Matchmaking services have a lot of _extremely_ desirable
| features for a lot of gamers.
| conor- wrote:
| Rootkit anti-cheats can still often be bypassed using DMA
| and external hardware cheats, which are becoming much
| cheaper and increasingly common. There's still cheaters
| in Valorant and in Cs2 on faceit, both of which have
| extremely intrusive ACs that only run on Windows.
|
| At the level of privilege you're granting to play a video
| game, you'd need to have a dedicated gaming PC that is
| isolated from the rest of your home network, lest that
| another crowdstrike level issue takes place from a bad
| update to the ring 0 code these systems are running
| polski-g wrote:
| But isn't all client-side anti-cheat bypassable by doing
| image recognition on the rendered image? (either remote
| desktop or a hardware-based display cable proxy)
| Yokolos wrote:
| Modern cheats are far more advanced than this. Using a
| DMA cheat, you basically just read the game's memory from
| a different computer and there's no way for the game to
| know unless the PCI device ID is known:
| https://intl.anticheatexpert.com/resource-
| center/content-68....
| bangaladore wrote:
| DMA is "easy" to patch. No reason to allow a device to
| have arbitrary memory access. Just require use of IOMMU.
|
| FaceIT essentially has countered most modern cheats
| including those using DMA.
| https://www.faceit.com/en/news/faceit-rollout-of-tpm-
| secure-...
|
| Nowadays if memory access is needed, you are looking at
| having to find a way to load a custom BIOS or UEFI module
| in a way that doesn't mess with secure boot. Even then,
| certain anti-cheats use frequently firing interrupts to
| find any unknown code executing on any system threads.
| bangaladore wrote:
| Yes. Using another machine, record the screen &
| programmatically move mouse.
|
| At that point you have to look at heuristics (assuming
| the input device is not trivially detectable vs a legit
| one).
|
| However, that can obviously only be used for certain
| types of cheating (e.g. aimbot, trigger bot (shoot when
| crosshair is on person)).
| wnevets wrote:
| the third option is cloud gaming for everyone.
| suddenlybananas wrote:
| 3. write your codebase in a way which is suspicious of
| client data and gives the server much more control
| (easier said than done however)
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| That's just server-side anti-cheat, which I've already
| addressed.
|
| Cheating isn't always about manipulating game state,
| especially in FPSes. There, it's more about manipulating
| input, ie, auto-aim cheats.
| gf000 wrote:
| Even kernel anti-cheat can be defeated, this is a similar
| fight to what captchas have.
|
| I can just have my screen recorded and have a fake input
| signal as my mouse/keyboard.. or just simply hire a pro
| player to play in my name, and it's absolutely impossible
| to detect any of these.
|
| The point is to just make it more expensive to cheat,
| culling out the majority of people who would do so.
| gausswho wrote:
| There's a third path:
|
| 3. No humans in your multiplayer
|
| As someone who grew up amazed at Reaper bot for Quake,
| I'm surprised we don't see a rennaisance of making
| 'multiplayer' fun by more expressive, fallible,
| unpredictable bots. We're in an AI bubble and I don't
| hear of anyone chasing the holy grail of believable 'AI'
| opponents.
|
| This also has the secondary benefit of having your
| multiplayer game remain enjoyable even when people's
| short attention spans move on to the next hot live
| service. Heck this could kill live service games.
|
| Then again, what people get out of multiplayer is, on
| some unspoken and sad level, making some other person
| hurt.
| aseipp wrote:
| Today, no. Very simplified but the broad goal of those
| tools is to prevent manipulation and monitoring of the in-
| process state of the game. Consoles and PCs require this to
| varying degrees by requiring a signed boot chain at
| minimum. Consoles require a fully signed chain for every
| program, so you can't deploy a hacking tool anyway; no
| anti-cheat is needed. PCs can run unsigned and signed
| programs -- so instead they require the kernel at minimum
| to be signed & trusted, and then you put the anti-cheat
| system inside it so it cannot be interfered with. If you do
| not do this then there is basically no way to actually
| trust any claim the computer makes about its state. For
| PCs, the problem is you have to basically trust the anti-
| cheat isn't a piece of shit and thus have to trust both
| Microsoft and also random corporations. Also PCs are
| generally insecure anyway at the hardware level due to a
| number of factors, so it only does so much.
|
| You could make a Linux distro with a signed boot chain and
| a kernel anti-cheat, then you'd mostly need to get
| developers on board with trusting that solution. Nobody is
| doing that today, even Valve.
|
| Funny enough, macOS of all things is maybe "best"
| theoretical platform for all this because it does not
| require you to trust anyone beyond Apple. All major macOS
| programs are signed by their developers, so macOS as an OS
| knows exactly where each program came from. macOS can also
| attest that it is running in secure mode, and it can run a
| process at user-mode level such that it can't be interfered
| with by another process. So you could enforce a policy like
| this: if Battlefield6.app is launched, it cannot be
| examined by any other process, but likewise it may run in a
| full sandbox. Next, Battlefield6.app needs to login online,
| so it can ask macOS to provide an attestation saying it is
| running on genuine Apple hardware in secure mode, and then
| it could submit that attestation to EA which can validate
| it as genuine. Then the program launch is trusted. This
| setup requires you to only trust Apple security and that
| macOS is functioning correctly, not EA or whatever nor does
| it require actual anti-cheat mechanisms.
| brian-armstrong wrote:
| The games would just leave Steam. The big publishers want
| their own platforms and launchers anyway.
| vkou wrote:
| That's not the trend that we're observing. As much as
| publishers and developers want to control their sales
| channels, the current trend is for them to move towards
| Steam, not away from it.
|
| The more likely outcome is that developers would segment
| matchmaking into people with kernel-level anti-cheat, and
| people without it. This seems fair to me.
| jsheard wrote:
| Several big publishers _did_ move away from Steam until
| Valve conceded some of their revenue, reducing their cut
| from 30% to 25 /20% at certain revenue thresholds. That
| convinced the publishers to return to Steam, but it
| showed that Valve isn't immune to being flexed on by the
| bigger players.
| conor- wrote:
| The big publishers already have their own launcher and
| platforms and are increasingly moving back onto Steam
| because they see higher PC player counts and sales when
| their games are there
| Yokolos wrote:
| Yeah, I would hope not. Trying to impose your will on
| suppliers and b2b customers like this is how you get hit with
| an antitrust lawsuit.
| aDyslecticCrow wrote:
| This is a issue of critical mass. With the continued growth of
| steamos, steamdeck, and linux as a game platform, eventually it
| will pull over support.
| sodality2 wrote:
| I have to wonder if it's possible to ever even guarantee
| something that can't be trivially bypassed on Linux -
| Windows, sure, it's possible with DMA, but it's damn hard. On
| Linux you could just compile a spoofed kernel or a DKMS
| module or something.
| kykat wrote:
| Look at android, locked bootloader, no root, se linux, and
| voila
| robotnikman wrote:
| It looks like Valve wants to avoid going down the road of
| an extremely locked down system like that. They even view
| the ability to load alternate OS's as a feature of their
| products.
| aDyslecticCrow wrote:
| you can make a signed readonly linux installation, and
| restrict your games to it. this would be like "support
| steamos but not linux".
|
| Or deliver the game as a container format, like snap or
| appimage to bypass most of the system.
|
| Or demand the installation of a kernel driver like they do
| on windows.
|
| or just give up on kernel level aticheat since they're been
| breached all the same, just as windows are restricting
| their power too.
|
| easy-anticheat has a linux version. Developers have to
| disable the support intentionally.
| lawlessone wrote:
| is it not possible for someone to have Linux spoof that
| it's Windows to the game?
| kyoji wrote:
| It's worse than that, BF6's anticheat is kernel level and
| requires the Windows-only version secure boot to be enabled, at
| least on my motherboard. There is no way I'm going to faff
| about with my BIOS when rebooting just to play this game.
| conor- wrote:
| I view it as Valve is doing me a favor by adding friction
| towards me installing a rootkit to play video games.
|
| There's also been numerous userspace ACs that work well and
| also run in userspace (EAC, Battleye, etc.) that have been
| enabled for Linux/Proton users (including by EA with Apex
| Legends at one point). A lot of the support for Linux mostly
| comes down to the developer/publishers not wanting to and not
| because of technical reasons.
| bob1029 wrote:
| Looking at the specs and marketing copy, it sounds to me like
| you could secure boot windows 11 on this machine.
|
| > ... a discrete semi-custom AMD desktop class CPU and GPU.
|
| > Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still
| your PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating
| system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer?
| butlike wrote:
| Do we know what kernel SteamOS uses? Is it built on linux, or
| could it be some sort of kiosk'd mode Windows where this will
| be a non-issue? One could hope but I truly don't know.
| pja wrote:
| SteamOS on the Deck is just a standard (tuned) Linux
| distribution under the hood. It would be very surprising to
| me if Valve shifted to an entirely different OS for the Cube.
| Klaus23 wrote:
| Perhaps a trusted execution environment based anti-cheat system
| could be possible.
|
| I think Valve said something about working with anti-cheat
| developers to find a solution for the Steam Deck, but nothing
| happened. Perhaps they will do something this time.
|
| With a TEE, you could scan the system or even completely
| isolate your game, preventing even the OS from manipulating it.
| As a last resort, you could simply blacklist the machine if
| cheats are detected.
|
| There would probably still be some cheaters, but the numbers
| would be so low as to not be a problem.
| AceJohnny2 wrote:
| Same. I mainline Destiny2 (well, a bit less these days), and
| Bungie won't support Linux/Steam Deck because they depend on
| BattlEye kernel anti-cheat.
|
| (and yet still have a problem with cheaters, see all the bans
| following the Desert Perpetual raid race)
| JBiserkov wrote:
| A bit of topic, but I was wondering how much bigger is the steam
| machine compared to the mac mini m4, since that's what I have and
| is my frame of reference. Obviously comparing apples to oranges
| and only talking about physical volume, not features,
| compatibility, price, personal preferences, etc.
|
| Mac Mini m4: 127 x 127 x 50 mm = 0.8 L
|
| Steam Machine: 156 x 162 x 152 = 3.8 L
|
| That's 4.76 times more volume.
| hnuser123456 wrote:
| It's also about twice the total TDP and more likely to spend
| time running at full bore. Bigger heatsinks and fans means
| quieter operation under load.
| Aurornis wrote:
| The Steam device has a 110W GPU and 30W CPU. The M4 Mac Mini's
| peak power consumption is less than half of that. Even with the
| Apple Silicon efficiency, it can't keep up with high power GPUs
| in graphical loads like gaming.
|
| Mac Mini will throttle itself after sustained full load,
| especially with the GPU engaged.
|
| A Mac Mini will start throttling well before the end of a 30
| minute online gaming match.
|
| A larger volume for better cooling was a good choice for a
| machine designed to run the CPU and GPU at full load for hours.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Will it be able to play AAA games with shitty DRM such as
| Battlefield 6?
|
| Not being able to play these huge titles on Linux really sucks!
| constantcrying wrote:
| It is not a DRM problem, you can run many EA games on Linux
| with no problems, it is an anti cheat problem, which can not be
| solved by Valve, it has to be done by EA.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Correct but the customer doesn't care whose fault it is, they
| just want to play the latest games.
| Razengan wrote:
| Look at it this way: Not having to play those money suckers
| leaves you more time for all the awesome indies out there!
| nake13 wrote:
| "Over six times the horsepower of Steam Deck" [?] RTX 3060
| Laptop?
| nine_k wrote:
| Arch-based? KDE Plasma? There might happen a real "year of
| desktop Linux", in a way. That is, a Linux desktop that sneaks in
| as a side dish, but maybe gains some non-zero traction, and
| bringing FOSS to more people who are not engineers.
| CuriouslyC wrote:
| AI + Games is the killer app for Linux on the <everything>. You
| can make a beast of a gaming PC that also happens to be a beast
| of a local inference system, and that local inference system
| can manage the system for you, so grandma won't have to worry
| about the shell ever again.
| whalesalad wrote:
| "I'm on the record saying, that maybe Valve will actually save
| the Linux desktop. And it's actually not because I think games
| are important! I don't care, I don't play games. I think some
| people do, so games maybe important. But the really important
| issue is I guarantee you Valve will not make 15 different
| binaries. And I also guarantee you that every single desktop
| distribution will care about Valve binaries." - Linus Torvalds
| in 2014
|
| Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzl1B7nB9Kc&t=310s
| haunter wrote:
| "Steam Machine's pricing is comparable to a PC with similar
| specs" [0]
|
| It has to be no more than 800EUR then if it also wants to compete
| against the console market.
|
| Even 800EUR is too much imo because looking at the specs it's
| already not a "future proof" build, more like a previous gen
| gaming laptop
|
| 0, https://www.theverge.com/tech/818111/valve-steam-machine-
| han...
| cheschire wrote:
| thanks for that. The internals photos were what I was really
| wanting to see!
| robotnikman wrote:
| Wow, the heat sink takes up most of the internal space!
| porphyra wrote:
| Having a single big fan cool a massive heatsink (that is
| hopefully very quiet) can legitimately a good reason to get
| this over building a typical SFF PC, which often runs hot and
| loud. It sorta reminds me of the trashcan Mac Pro. I myself
| have a sandwich style case with an RTX 5070 in it which is
| quite loud under load.
| encom wrote:
| Paywalled, and also The Verge.
|
| https://archive.vn/ndOmA
| ivanjermakov wrote:
| What is the controversy?
| conorh wrote:
| It is truly amazing how far Proton/Steam OS has come along. I
| recently installed it on some old AMD hardware I had lying
| around, hooked it up to my TV and everything just works - zero
| problems. I look forward to checking out this Steam Machine!
| torginus wrote:
| Cool but I wish it had a single big APU chip like the consoles
| and Strix Halo - and unified memory. PCs are long overdue for
| adopting this change, and the only reason it makes sense to keep
| the separate is to make graphics cards swappable.
|
| Considering how big GPU silicon is, when you have both integrated
| and custom, it'd have made sense to integrate them.
| bigyabai wrote:
| > and unified memory. PCs are long overdue for adopting this
| change
|
| Why? Desktop PCs, especially gaming PCs, have nothing to gain
| and everything to lose by oversubscribing system memory with
| GPU workloads. The memory bus typically isn't fast enough
| anyways, and a modern PCIe x16 can easily handle the bandwidth
| of a gigantic GPU. The only advantage to unifying everything is
| latency, which isn't relevant at any framerate under 1000hz.
|
| > when you have both integrated and custom, it'd have made
| sense to integrate them.
|
| Sometimes, sometimes not. AMD's mobile packaging technology is
| not world-class like Apple and Nvidia's is. Valve had the
| experience with the Steam Deck to make the call if a mobile
| architecture was the right choice, and they decided against it.
|
| Valve doesn't have to make a Mac. This is a gaming device, it's
| designed accordingly.
| torginus wrote:
| All consoles have been using a single integrated chip since
| the last generation. The memory bandwidth a CPU uses is much
| less than GPU. Let's say a CPU does 50 GB/s peak while the
| GPU does 200+
| eigenspace wrote:
| What they're using here is still mostly off the shelf silicon
| with some tweaks. If they got enough volume, they probably
| could go for an all integrated APU with unified memory that
| could keep the GPU fed, but that'd be a very expensive and new
| thing to develop.
|
| I hope that if this is a success, they'll have the numbers to
| justify a Strix-Halo like APU with a smaller CPU but keeping
| the big GPU for the next generation of the device.
| mostly_harmless wrote:
| > you can wake your Steam Machine without leaving your couch.
| [using the built in steam controller wireless adapter].
|
| This one simple thing is the only thing that makes my
| SteamDeck+Dock feel like a second class console. So far they only
| claim it's for the Steam Controller, but I'd be great if it
| worked with the handful of 8bitdo or Switch controllers I've been
| using.
| neura wrote:
| Same issue with Switch 2. You can only wake it with a Switch 2
| controller. Nintendo's own Pro Controller for switch, which
| used to wake the Switch just fine, cannot wake the Switch 2.
| Seems like a forced upgrade issue, to me. :(
| azdle wrote:
| Waking up the deck works for me with my xbox controller
| connected via bluetooth. Are you using those controllers via BT
| or USB?
|
| Edit: Now that I think about it, this might have been a feature
| added to the OLED model.
| robotnikman wrote:
| Yes, the OLED model has a different Bluetooth controller and
| iirc that's the main reason. Though Valve has been working on
| trying to backport it to the original models as well.
| bogwog wrote:
| I have a 1st gen Steam Deck (256gb), and it has supported wake
| from bluetooth peripherals for a while. I've only tested it
| with a PS5 controller, but it works. [EDIT: btw I use the
| official dock. Idk if it'll work with others]
|
| I use my SteamDeck as a streaming device too, and since my TV
| is connected via HDMI, waking the console also wakes the TV. So
| I can start playing/watching anything by just turning on my PS5
| controller (which is not ideal because the PS5 controller has
| terrible battery life and is often dead when I need it, but
| that's a different issue)
| darkteflon wrote:
| On the other hand, PS5 controller - unlike an Xbox controller
| - gets you gyro control, which makes for a very nice mouse
| experience. I play tons of mouse-only games (e.g.
| Mechabellum) from the couch thanks to the DualSense.
| chocalot wrote:
| I agree. It looks like it's in progress.
|
| Earlier this month SteamOS had a release: "Temporarily re-
| disabled experimental wake-on-bluetooth support for Steam Deck
| LCD while issues with spurious wake-ups are investigated"
|
| https://www.steamdeck.com/en/news
| ymsodev wrote:
| > Who are we to tell you how to use your computer?
|
| What a refreshing thing to hear in 2025... :D
| didibus wrote:
| Hell ya! A new gaming OS, linux based, getting console and
| portable hardware that is well built, it's what I've been waiting
| for, something that gives you a good console UX but lets you play
| PC games.
| dmix wrote:
| I've had my Steam deck plugged into my tv for the last year and
| I sometimes use the Linux desktop (just a menu option and it
| reloads into desktop mode) which has a really nice design is
| already preconfigured for casual linux use.
|
| I'd look up game review youtube videos and search stuff in
| between games from my couch. No complaints.
|
| The only downside to SteamOS being linux is the lack of easy
| mod support. It's either a PIA or not supported.
| buffet_overflow wrote:
| You have to set it up with the Steam client in Desktop Mode,
| but you can add arbitrary programs and executables as non-
| steam games.
|
| As a result, I can open Spotify in the background and have it
| play music while I game, from the primary SteamOS interface.
| LarsDu88 wrote:
| GabeN send me a devkit! I make Rogue Stargun VR
| (roguestargun.com) which should be able to run on standalone
| DavideNL wrote:
| https://mastodon.social/@stroughtonsmith/115538125708522123
| LarsDu88 wrote:
| How do I get a devkit? Both Meta and Pico have sent me free
| dev headsets.
|
| I e-mailed GabeN directly this morning...
| butz wrote:
| No external power brick. Instant buy.
| microsoftedging wrote:
| It's glorious. The year has finally come. It's nice to feel
| excited about tech sometimes, especially when the company isn't
| completely horrible, and more competition! Great! Microsoft's
| move really, Sony and Nintendo are doing pretty okay!
|
| W shadow drop.
| simlevesque wrote:
| I bet they decided to crash their skin market in part because too
| many people were exploiting the Steam Deck loophole to take the
| skin money out of the system.
|
| Now people will need to give Steam real money to buy their new
| devices.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Really I think it was otherwise. Dropping prices mean that more
| transactions happen on their market place. And them selling
| games or hardware allows them to realise their liabilities as
| my understanding is that money in wallet on Steam is not yet
| revenue.
| flakiness wrote:
| I'm still waiting for Steam Deck 2! Come on!
| jadbox wrote:
| When's the preorder?
| drcongo wrote:
| I wonder if AMD have bothered finishing the gfx drivers for this
| before release.
| mystifyingpoi wrote:
| Linus Torvalds was right. Valve will save the Linux desktop.
| metalliqaz wrote:
| ...by emulating WinAPI
| flohofwoe wrote:
| And nothing wrong with that, the classic Win32 API is
| actually quite decent, especially the small subset needed for
| games. And it has the incredible advantage that it doesn't
| change since Microsoft doesn't care about Windows anymore ;)
| sph wrote:
| Heh, who cares. I can play games and my OS doesn't spy on me.
| npteljes wrote:
| The funny thing would be for Wine to then extend the WinAPI,
| and software beginning to use that extension.
| koinedad wrote:
| Been waiting for this
| robotnikman wrote:
| The one with the front panel replaced by an Eink screen really
| looks cool https://platform.theverge.com/wp-
| content/uploads/sites/2/202...
|
| >Valve won't necessarily sell any of those extra panels, but says
| it'll release the CAD files so you can design and 3D print your
| own.
| paxys wrote:
| They haven't mentioned it anywhere, but non-upgradable
| CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD would be a massive deal breaker.
|
| Also why announce it without a price?
| giobox wrote:
| While it's a dealbraker for me too, locking the spec is how
| Valve can make a stable hardware target for devs with the
| "Steam Deck Verified" program, which they've also announced is
| coming to this box. This is one of the main reasons the specs
| for the Deck have remained almost identical since launch as
| well, Valve have said as much in interviews.
|
| I expect to see this and the Deck try to follow locked hardware
| revisions every few years, just like a console, to allow the
| verified program to work effectively.
|
| This product is so not aimed at those of us already building
| our own gaming boxes, but I'm guessing more a way to tempt
| those who have only ever owned gaming consoles into the Steam
| ecosystem.
|
| > https://www.steamdeck.com/en/verified
|
| FWIW some early access previews note the box does have a
| socketed M2 SSD and what looks like upgradable RAM.
| keoneflick wrote:
| I wonder if Steam will finally implement multi-user sign on for
| local multiplayer games (like all true consoles).
|
| It's something that doesn't get headlines, but a real barrier for
| enjoyment for a console-like PC. Hate being stuck with 'guest 1'
| and 'guest 2' or whatever. Many games want each player to
| progress and without true multi sign on, it just doesn't work.
| Hence games dropping local multiplayer on PC.
| awakeasleep wrote:
| Steam would need to reliably pass multiple controller inputs to
| the game before your qualm gets addressed
| timpera wrote:
| I really hope that we'll be able to put Windows on this.
| miguelxpn wrote:
| The landing page says "Who are we to tell you how to use your
| computer?" so I'm assuming you'll be able to do whatever you
| want with it. Similar to the Steam Deck.
| barnabee wrote:
| I hope we can, too. I _really_ hope we don 't.
| mcdow wrote:
| Why does Steam/Valve care so much about Linux? I know as devs we
| all would prefer to use Linux/Unix. But developer experience
| isn't a good business justification.
| Manfred wrote:
| Probably because Steam doesn't want to sell an Xbox and
| Microsoft won't license Windows to be rebranded.
| 0x457 wrote:
| Probably to keep MS from locking down gaming on Windows and
| cutting out Valve as distributor.
|
| Add to that, Windows isn't usable on 10ftUI or really anything
| that is not fully-controlled (think ATMs) or desktop with kb/m.
| jcelerier wrote:
| why wouldn't you use linux when you are shipping your own,
| custom, purpose-built device?
| andrewclunn wrote:
| They don't want Microsoft to be able to use its control of the
| OS to push them out. It's not the Valve needs to control the
| OS, it's that they don't want a company that views them as a
| competitor to have said control. Linux ensures that they have
| protection from that.
| kube-system wrote:
| For starters, they can't really customize Windows for the
| devices they release.
| eigenspace wrote:
| It's because Valve's entire business model is currently reliant
| on Microsoft not being emboldened to try and lock down software
| downloads to only occur through the Microsoft Store.
|
| 15 or so years ago, Microsoft started making moves in that
| direction and Valve immediately started trying to build and
| sell Linux based gaming machines in order to try and protect
| themselves somewhat from Microsoft. Those Linux gaming machines
| (Steam Machines 1.0) were a massive failure because they were
| expensive, and had very very limited game support.
|
| Valve then spent around a decade improving Wine, building
| Proton, and designing the SteamDeck, which was a great success
| for them and is now making lots of people take Linux seriously
| for gaming. Now they're moving up the value chain and trying to
| make Linux the go-to place for PC gaming.
|
| They've still got a big battle ahead of them, but already Linux
| users are around 4% of active Steam users, and the Linux
| experience is rapidly improving. Meanwhile, Microsoft seems to
| be bleeding goodwill, and is actively pissing off a huge amount
| of their Windows audience while simultaneously giving up on
| Xbox, so this is really perfect timing for Valve now.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| The business justification is called commoditizing your
| complement. https://gwern.net/complement is a good article
| about it.
| robotnikman wrote:
| You can basically tailor the OS specifically for the device and
| remove unneeded bloat. Also the threat of Microsoft and Windows
| as mentioned by other users. The introduction of the Microsoft
| Store with Windows 8 basically kicked off this whole move for
| Valve. While it took over a decade of work, its paying great
| dividends now.
| npteljes wrote:
| >I know as devs we all would prefer to use Linux/Unix.
|
| That's not true. In the 2025 SO survey, both Windows is the
| most used OS for developers, for both professional and for
| personal use.
|
| https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2024/technology#1-operating-...
| paxys wrote:
| A bit too sparse on details.
|
| - No price
|
| - No indication for whether the CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD are upgradable or
| all soldered together on the board.
|
| - "4K gaming at 60 FPS with FSR" but doesn't mention what kind of
| games it can run at that quality.
|
| - No performance benchmarks, or mention of what the equivalent
| retail CPU/GPU to their custom one is.
|
| At face value this seems like a $500-600 PC, and that's also the
| price it would be able to compete with consoles at.
| haunter wrote:
| 8GB VRAM + 4K + FSR3 is very tough situation. Basically bit
| better than an Xbox Series S but quickly outpaced by midrange
| PCs.
|
| It will all come down to the price.
| paxys wrote:
| Yeah non-upgradable 8GB VRAM would make it a no-go for all
| but the most casual gamers. But then the casual gamers would
| rather buy a PS5 for the same price, so let's see where this
| one fits in.
| whynotminot wrote:
| The size here is actually important too. I think the PS5 is
| monstrously large and ugly. I do not want it in my living
| room.
|
| If this little box is roughly PS5 power and reasonably
| priced (we shall see) then that might hit just right.
| MBCook wrote:
| They already own the PC market. This seems more like a play
| to start to introduce Steam towards more of the console
| market.
|
| And for that, assuming a reasonable price, it looks like a
| nice attempt. Certainly much better than last time.
| haunter wrote:
| Yeah it's confirmed solderd and not-upgradable
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWUxObt1efQ&t=591s
| Kirby64 wrote:
| It's essentially an RX 7600, roughly. It's not quite 'the
| most casual gamer', but it isn't super amazing. But...
| neither is the steam deck, and steam deck flies off the
| shelves.
| nalekberov wrote:
| It's soldered on the board, Gamers Nexus has already reviewed
| it: https://youtu.be/bWUxObt1efQ?t=591
| mayli wrote:
| Yeah, gemini gives $649 - $699 for BOM, $749+ if they want some
| margin from the hardware. Which is cheaper than most "Gaming
| PC", but still more expensive than Switch/PS5, and lack the
| expandability of PC.
|
| I wish they could sell at $300-$500, that's really going to
| make this a must have for this year.
| keyringlight wrote:
| Using the deck prices seems like a good place to start unless
| they're using the opportunity to change strategy. It's an
| updated SoC, but minus a screen, battery, separate dock,
| built-in controller, and less pressure to pack it in a
| handheld chassis. They mention a built in wireless adapter
| for the controller, so I assume there will be bundles with
| and without a controller.
| mayli wrote:
| I feel the same way, it has to be priced in the range of
| gaming console rather than gaming PC.
| keyringlight wrote:
| If that's the case I think it's a hugely positive thing,
| and has gone away for newly bought hardware for a variety
| of reasons over the past decade. Having a basic PC and
| then upgrading it with a GPU used to be a realistic route
| to a respectable gaming PC, but I think that's largely
| gone away now (partially due to the death of the general
| "home PC" or many being on laptops. There are bargains to
| be had in the used market, but that comes with a lot of
| asterisks.
|
| If they can get this to a large market I think it's great
| value, not just as a console-model PC but because a full
| featured desktop without lockdown is so near. It's a
| reverse of where I've thought MS missed a trick with the
| xbox, add a keyboard and mouse and let users have turn on
| a sandboxed lightweight desktop mode then funnel users to
| get software through their store, which would have been a
| great way to get xbox hardware installed in houses
| (especially the cheap S models) during covid when there
| was a sudden rush to buy PCs for home working that
| previously didn't need it.
|
| This is targeted at the living room, but I'd love to see
| non-gaming uses highlighted and get the equivalent of
| 'deck certified' whether that's linux native or efforts
| into working well under wine.
| JeremyNT wrote:
| There are some early previews where people ran some actual
| games at it[0].
|
| Here are some of their results:
|
| > _In Cyberpunk 2077, running at 4K, it's a surprisingly stable
| 60fps, albeit with the caveat of that using FSR 3 upscaling on
| Performance mode with Medium quality settings. But, also: basic
| ray tracing, something the Deck can't even think about enabling
| outside of very specific games._
|
| > _The next game I tested, Black Myth: Wukong, is best run with
| its own RT effects switched off. Still, it also averaged around
| 60fps on otherwise similar settings: Performance-level FSR 3
| upscaling to 4K, plus the Medium quality preset. And, in an
| almost unnerving repeat performance, Silent Hill f ran close
| enough to a solid 60fps (with most drops owed to Unreal Engine
| 5's signature stuttering) on the Performance-level graphics
| settings and, once again, FSR 3 running on Performance mode._
|
| [0] https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/hands-on-with-the-new-
| steam...
| andrepd wrote:
| > In Cyberpunk 2077, running at 4K, it's a surprisingly
| stable 60fps, albeit with the caveat of that using FSR 3
| upscaling on Performance mode with Medium quality settings
|
| So it's not running at 4K nor 60fps. I wish people would stop
| calling 1080p upscale through some dogshit filter as "4K"...
| rpmisms wrote:
| I would call it TV 4k, not monitor 4k. FSR looks just fine
| from across the room.
| encom wrote:
| I agree 100%. However, the upscaling _is_ pretty good. You
| can tell it 's not 4K, but it's also considerably better
| than simple bilinear resampling from 1080p.
| legitster wrote:
| > No indication for whether the CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD are upgradable
| or all soldered together on the board.
|
| Almost certainly. This is the direction the industry is
| heading, and the perverse unavailability of high-end discrete
| graphics cards is the nail in the coffin.
|
| See also the Framework PC.
| esskay wrote:
| We do have an indication. The RAM and SSD are both
| upgradable. The RAM is SODIMM, and storage is NVME
| jm4 wrote:
| It's basically a more powerful Steam Deck that's connected to a
| TV. The games will be "verified" and the settings pre-tuned for
| ideal performance just like the Steam Deck. They did a good job
| making the most of mediocre hardware in the Deck.
|
| My initial thoughts were that this thing would cost
| considerably more, but I'm looking at the specs and it might
| not be too bad. Maybe it'll start at $499 or $599 and go up
| $749 or $849. I'm guessing SoC and not easily upgraded. It says
| Zen4 so it won't be Strix Point/Halo, but maybe some bastard
| variation with a Zen4 core and newer GPU than the Deck.
| kace91 wrote:
| Consoles frequently get better performance than an equivalent
| pc because companies optimize for that specific hardware.
|
| Frame becoming a mainstream device (compared to any random
| combination of components) might make a difference that way.
| mindcrash wrote:
| > "No indication for whether the CPU/GPU/RAM/SSD are upgradable
| or all soldered together on the board"
|
| With 99.9% certainty this box is carrying on the legacy of the
| Deck and the Deck OLED, which means that it has a 100% custom
| crafted SoC with soldered components. Which also means they
| also could perform some trickery not found in "normal" PCs,
| like UDMA and custom interface.
|
| > "but doesn't mention what kind of games it can run at that
| quality."
|
| According to the specs it has a custom _RDNA 3_ chip w / 28 CUs
| and boost clock at 2.45Ghz. The Playstation 5 has a custom
| _RDNA 2_ chip w / 36 CUs @ 2.23 GHz and the Xbox Series X has a
| custom _RDNA2 2_ chip w / 52 CUs @ 1.83Ghz.
|
| Given the optimizations AMD made in RDNA 3 (the "budget" 9070XT
| can easily keep up with the prev gen "enthousiast" 9700XTX) I
| could make a safe bet it's on the same level of performance as
| a Playstation 5
|
| > "No performance benchmarks, or mention of what the equivalent
| retail CPU/GPU to their custom one is."
|
| ~7600X, ~RX7700, but like I noted earlier that's meaningless
| because the overall architecture of the hardware in this box is
| likely completely incomparable with a generic PC (just like
| with XBX and PS5, by the way)
| wmf wrote:
| They said it's semi-custom discrete not a custom SoC. So
| basically it's a Ryzen 7400 + Radeon 7400.
| mindcrash wrote:
| I was close :)
| lawlessone wrote:
| Would this be capable of utilizing the ray/path tracing many
| games have now?
| mindcrash wrote:
| Steam Deck has a RDNA 2 chip which supports ray tracing
| (since it happily runs Indiana Jones and the Great Circle,
| which has a hard requirement for ray tracing) so I guess it
| will .
| porphyra wrote:
| According to [1], the RAM and SSD are upgradable.
|
| * 16GB DDR5 SODIMM (upgradeable)
|
| * M.2 2230/2280 NVMe SSDs
|
| [1] https://www.eurogamer.net/steam-machine-everything-we-
| know-a...
| noir_lord wrote:
| 7900XTX not 9700XTX which didn't exist.
|
| 9070XT is RDNA4 not RDNA3 and steam machine has 28CU's on
| RDNA3 which is same as RX7400 the bottom of the range RDNA3.
|
| The 7900XTX has 84 and 24GB of VRAM.
|
| This is a strictly entry level last gen GPU, don't expect
| miracles.
|
| The hardware is not good unless the price is very cheap.
|
| As for the 7900XTX been enthusiast only in the sense it it
| was the top of the line _from AMD_ it's about 4080 in some
| areas and loses badly in others (ray tracing), price wise it
| wasn't far of the 9070XT price wise at launch.
|
| I have a 7900XTX I like it a great deal but the 4090/5080 and
| 5090 crush it and the 90's are enthusiast both on price and
| perf.
|
| I ended up with a 7900XTX because nvidia pissed me off on
| Linux one time too many otherwise I'd have gotten the 4090
| but between kernel installs causing pain (nothing
| insurmountable) and them straight breaking power management
| for nearly a year on _mature_ hardware, nah, AMD deserved the
| sale, they really do support Linux better.
| butlike wrote:
| All my friends have moved on to PC, and I don't really want to
| build a $1000 minimum computer with crazy LEDs that takes up a
| ton of space with a monitor at this point in my life. And
| SteamDeck doesn't support KB+M well.
|
| I have no qualms about couch gaming with a KB+M if I can do it
| with my friends and my already extensive Steam library. Unless
| they completely drop the ball on this, I'm in.
| paxys wrote:
| > and I don't really want to build a $1000 minimum computer
| with crazy LEDs that takes up a ton of space with a monitor
| at this point in my life.
|
| The beauty of a PC is you can build whatever you want. It
| doesn't need to be large, and doesn't need to have LEDs.
| There are plenty of small form factor cases on the market
| with the same footprint as this one.
| YuukiRey wrote:
| The Steam Machine is smaller than any case that would be
| considered mainstream in the small form factor community,
| at least to my knowledge. The FormD T1 is around 10L for
| example, and would look almost comically large compared to
| the Steam Machine.
|
| And enthusiast cases like this are often quite expensive
| and not easy to get. Then you need to think about thermals,
| and find hardware that actually fits.
|
| You can approach it form another angle and treat it more
| like a NUC and get a SoC but then you're probably not going
| to get close in terms of gaming performance.
|
| So long story short: I disagree that it would be straight
| forward to build something like this on your own, at the
| same price point.
| paxys wrote:
| How are you declaring it not possible "at the same price
| point" when the price of this isn't even announced?
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Yep, but you need to put insane amounts of research into
| figuring out which GPUs and CPU coolers can fit your small
| case...
|
| And then you get your case and mobo and PSU and maybe CPU
| and your budget is already at over 1000EUR and you still
| need a GPU.
| paxys wrote:
| This is a fairly low spec device. You can comfortably fit
| all the hardware, case, PSU, cooling etc. in a $600-700
| budget. If you want to go small form factor then it'll
| cost a bit extra, but not _that_ much extra.
| Kreutzer wrote:
| I would reach out to those friend for freebie parts.
| hasperdi wrote:
| Dave2D has additional info. User upgradable RAM and SSD, but not
| CPU.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=356rZ8IBCps
| derefr wrote:
| Huh, I had just been trying to look into whether there existed a
| "mini PC but with a GPU in it that's at least as good as the ones
| in game consoles."
|
| (Or, to put that another way: fundamentally, I want a game
| console -- a piece of well-integrated consumer electronics that
| lives unobtrusively in my entertainment center, hooked up to my
| TV, requiring no maintenance, controlled entirely with a
| Bluetooth gamepad. But I want it to enable me to _run_ both 1.
| current-gen games at at-least-equivalent fidelity to the console
| ports of those games; and also 2. "all the games a Windows PC
| can run." So, anything on Steam, yes; but also, all the weird
| little indie games on itch.io that never make it to Steam; and
| old DOS/Win31/Win95 games (either as polished ports from GOG, or
| through various forms of virtualization/emulation I'd set up
| myself); and even the little freeware games floating about on the
| "old internet", that someone made in Game Maker or RPG Maker 2000
| or even as a standalone Flash projector executable, way back
| when.)
|
| The closest thing I had found to that description so far, that
| even _might_ work for the use-case, was the ROG NUC.
|
| I wonder how this compares to that?
| bakies wrote:
| probably exactly what you need! :)
| thoughtpalette wrote:
| We have the ROG NUC and absolutely love it for our living room.
| Not playing any crazy AAA ultra graphics games, but it's been
| great.
|
| If I had known this was finally releasing, I would have waited
| though.
| zeec123 wrote:
| I am hyped for the improved gyro controller. Gyro aiming is so
| good that after some time it became way better than my mouse
| aiming.
| CuriouslyC wrote:
| Valve is cooking. Their work is paving the way for an open
| computing ecosystem that is gonna be lit.
| ortusdux wrote:
| I've been looking at getting a Bee-link box to run as a TV
| computer and plex server. I'm definitely holding of buying until
| I see the pricing on this!
| xd1936 wrote:
| HDMI 2.0 is a bit of a bummer. No Dynamic HDR, VRR, or eARC.
| wnevets wrote:
| Can I use it as a jellyfin server?
| moelf wrote:
| yeah it's just a Linux x86 desktop (Arch Linux) -- although,
| you'd likely want to make sure Jellyfin's hardware acceleration
| works well with AMD APU (last time I checked the AMD was under
| experimental)
| pigcat wrote:
| Can I use it as a jellyfin client? Does that... make sense?
|
| I bought a new tv (samsung s90d) and I haven't found have a
| great way to watch my jellyfin media. This tv doesn't have a
| jellyfin client in the samsung app store.
|
| I feel like I'm being stupid here, would love some suggestions
| :P I've got a local jellyfin server running on a home server in
| the basement.
| Foivos wrote:
| I thought it is very easy to burn and SD card. Since when can you
| use it as storage expansion?
| h1fra wrote:
| not everybody has to be Apple, but the ugliness of this page (and
| the others) is astounding
| haunter wrote:
| What's ugly on the page? I think it's perfectly fine, you can
| find all the informations etc.
| artyom wrote:
| Oh, c'mon. I've been waiting for that machine for years. So much
| that I bought the Steam Deck out of frustration b/c it was _so
| close_.
|
| Two weeks ago I got tired and built a mini-ATX gaming PC with a
| RTX 5080.
|
| Way to go Steam nonetheless. I can get 100% behind a Windows-less
| gaming future. I may even buy this for a 2nd screen or for the
| kids.
| MurkyLabs wrote:
| I mean the specs seem okay but at least your computer will out-
| perform it. Just install steamOS:
| https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/65B4-2AA3-5F37-42...
| jorvi wrote:
| For this to truly become a console replacement, Steam needs to
| mint agreements with Netflix, Spotify and Discord.
|
| Netflix and Spotify could live as a 'game' application in the
| store. Spotify also is fairly easy to plug into Steam's overlay
| music control (currently via Decky plugins).
|
| Discord just needs integration with the Steam Friend List. I know
| Valve wants Steam Friends to compete with Discord, but that ship
| has sailed every since 2020 (and frankly, the entire decade
| before that when they let it languish).
| gapan wrote:
| What on earth is this abomination of a website? My locale is
| Greek and I'm presented with an auto-translated page in which
| most sentences don't make any sense. And I don't think it's AI
| slop, it's too bad to be even that. It feels more like google
| translate from a decade ago, translating everything word by word.
| FFS, go to fiverr and hire an actual human that knows how to
| translate stuff.
|
| Oh, and of course you're presenting greek text, as awful as it
| is, but didn't think to check if the font you're using supports
| greek at all.
|
| I'm sure it's the same for lots of other languages. _sigh_
| butlike wrote:
| i18n is hard.
| pyuser583 wrote:
| What's the cost? Doesn't seem we can buy yet.
| alligatorplum wrote:
| This is likely the push i need to fully ditch windows and go
| install linux on my PC. Can't wait to preorder!
| butlike wrote:
| But will it be able to run GTA VI?
|
| Truly the only litmus test for any gaming system released from
| now until 2027.
| defraudbah wrote:
| i am ditching my ps5 for this, go valve!
| somanyphotons wrote:
| I'm surprised they went for ARM in the desktop, but for x86 on
| the handheld. Does this mean the handheld will move to ARM
| aswell?
| moelf wrote:
| >Semi-custom AMD Zen 4 6C / 12T
|
| the desktop is also x86, the VR headset (Frame) is ARM
| somanyphotons wrote:
| Does this suddenly become the best supported ARM desktop?
| tintor wrote:
| Is this the end of Windows for gaming?
| moelf wrote:
| I guess right now the GPU is too weak. And ofc even if the
| hardware steps up, there are always root-kit games gatekeeping
| :(
| DustinEchoes wrote:
| The beginning of the end.
| npteljes wrote:
| I don't think there is an end to Windows gaming. It's the de-
| facto standard PC gaming platform. If there is a real end to
| its reign, it will be in decades, as in, at least 20 years.
| somanyphotons wrote:
| If they can make it play Microsoft Flight Simulator then that'd
| be pretty enticing
| nvarsj wrote:
| I'm just not seeing the market for this. Why not build a better
| steam deck dock instead?
| dangoodmanUT wrote:
| Sorry... expandable via microsd? They're terribly slow and
| unreliable, just cattle-chute us to using ssds over usb like
| consoles
| CobrastanJorji wrote:
| > Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who
| are we to tell you how to use your computer?
|
| From your mouth to Tim Cook's ear, friend.
| archon810 wrote:
| And Sundar's too with the latest BS about Android sideloading.
| preisschild wrote:
| Tbf at least Android is open source and AOSP itself doesnt
| have this limitation
| bnjms wrote:
| Tbf I haven't heard any news that Alphabet is requiring all
| sellers that paid off phones to be able to change to AOSP.
| 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
| Sort of. Google has slowly migrated all essential services
| into closed source libraries they control.
| drnick1 wrote:
| This isn't quite true. My GrapheneOS phone isn't lacking
| any "essential service." The only issue is that _some_
| apps distributed through the Play Store (or an
| alternative frontend like Aurora) that depend on
| proprietary Google libraries won 't work. But this is a
| problem that rests with the developers of the apps, not
| AOSP per se.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Is Google going to require that device makers provide
| unlocked bootloaders?
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Macs do allow both of those things.
|
| Valve is even borrowing some of the work done for the Mac
| version of Linux to add support for Proton on ARM hardware.
|
| > Gaming on Linux on M1 is here! We're thrilled to release our
| Asahi game playing toolkit, which integrates our Vulkan 1.3
| drivers with x86 emulation and Windows compatibility.
|
| https://rosenzweig.io/blog/aaa-gaming-on-m1.html
| drnick1 wrote:
| > Gaming on Linux on M1 is here! We're thrilled to release
| our Asahi game playing toolkit
|
| That certainly isn't thanks to Apple
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Apple gets the credit for designing a bootloader that
| allows you to run a third party unsigned OS without
| degrading device security when you do boot into MacOS.
|
| Applying the security settings per partition instead of per
| device is much more flexible, and you don't have to worry
| about Microsoft controlling which OS signing keys are
| valid.
| SchemaLoad wrote:
| It's uncharacteristic of them and better than nothing.
| But simply not blocking the installation of a 3rd party
| OS should be the bare minimum required by law. Ideally
| Apple would publish documentation on the hardware so it
| didn't have to be reverse engineered.
| iAMkenough wrote:
| Although changes made since have left M3 and newer
| unsupported by the solution for the first two generations
| of their design.
| cherryteastain wrote:
| > designing a bootloader that allows you to run a third
| party unsigned OS
|
| Oh thank you master for allowing me to boot a different
| OS!
|
| Being allowed to run whatever OS you want on your device
| is a right, not something you should need permission for.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| You are allowed and maybe have one option, what's the
| problem?
| drnick1 wrote:
| Apple doesn't deserve any credit for that. You should be
| able to use your hardware in any way you want without
| asking Apple for permission.
| groguzt wrote:
| Apple allow this kind of thing only on Mac and while also
| ensuring it does not happen by providing 0 documentation and
| by not contributing to any outside project. FEX was not made
| as part of the Asahi Linux project btw. Please inform
| yourself before making statements
| planetafro wrote:
| Bro. I played what I consider a basic game, Inscryption, on
| my MacBook Pro M4 Pro with 24Gb and that thing sounded like
| an aircraft taking off. ...meanwhile the weak sauce Steamdeck
| plays it flawlessly. Fan hardly even spins up. There is _a
| lot_ of work to do IMO on the Mac front. I doubt Apple cares.
| yndoendo wrote:
| That is not 100% correct. Apple is slowing closing in the
| walls on a general purpose computer and preventing the
| bypassing of Gatekeeper with the execution of unsigned
| applications to _protect the children._ [0] [1] [2] [3]
|
| [0] https://support.apple.com/guide/security/rosetta-2-on-a-
| mac-...
|
| [1]
| https://discussions.apple.com/thread/256079635?sortBy=rank
|
| [2] https://github.com/Homebrew/brew/issues/20755
|
| [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45907259
| 63stack wrote:
| There is no "Mac version of Linux"
| foxandmouse wrote:
| That said, when are we going to get a public release for
| SteamOS? ...There's a joke somewhere about them reaching
| SteamOS 3
| otikik wrote:
| Half-Life 3 confirmed
| shayway wrote:
| It's always been public:
|
| https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/65B4-2AA3-5F37-42.
| ..
|
| https://gitlab.com/evlaV/holo-PKGBUILD
| p1necone wrote:
| I have a SFF pc with an AMD GPU and AMD CPU both with better
| specs that the new Steam Machine just waiting for them to
| release a standalone installer for SteamOS :(
| mottey wrote:
| When Steam Pass?
| Mr_Eri_Atlov wrote:
| This project is a gaming console dream.
|
| Compact and looks nice, no qualms about displaying it in the
| living room, with customizable front panels.
|
| Optimized to just barely hit 4K 60 fps as cheaply as possible.
|
| Controllers designed to avoid stick drift, easy to charge, and
| featuring low-latency wireless connections.
|
| Stream from a Steam Machine to a Steam Deck or a Steam Frame if
| you have one; the Steam Machine enhances your other purchases
| further.
|
| Instantly supports everyone's libraries of dozens, if not
| hundreds, of games acquired over the years.
|
| And you can just use it as a desktop computer if you like?
|
| Give me the Gabecube!
| thrownawaysz wrote:
| The elephant in the room: "will this game run on my Steam
| Machine?"
|
| This is really the part a lot of people don't understand and not
| a qestion you even have to ask when you buy/download a game for a
| console.
|
| Some of the biggest games right now like BF6, COD, or Fortnite,
| League of Legends, chinese gacha games won't run on this. That
| excludes a massive part of the market, many of whom would be the
| exact audience for a simpler, more console-like PC experience.
| There's also no guarantee that future AAA games will be
| compatible with this day one (8GB VRAM is very limiting already).
|
| Yeah yeah indies but if people want to play X then offering them
| Z is not an option.
|
| This will be DOA anything over $500
| Otek wrote:
| This is true also for steam deck but it's a success anyway.
| COD, Fortnite, LoL players can stay on windows. I'm happy to
| play newest indie game on my Linux machine
| thrownawaysz wrote:
| >but it's a success anyway
|
| That's also debatable. Switch 2 sold 10m units in 6 months
| compared to the Steam Deck's 4 million in 3 years
| -\\_(tsu)_/-
|
| The Steam Deck is niche even among the gaming crowd.
|
| >COD, Fortnite, LoL players can stay on windows. I'm happy to
| play newest indie game on my Linux machine
|
| This is the mindset that makes the Steam Machine DOA if not
| priced correctly. No one will pay $800 just to play Hollow
| Knight in 4k
| galleywest200 wrote:
| Worth considering that Nintendo has a massive library of
| proprietary games they themselves produce (Mario, Pokemon,
| etc) that Steam does not have.
|
| People buy Nintendo products to play Nintendo games.
| porphyra wrote:
| You can likely install Windows on Steam Machine if you so wish,
| and then it would actually be a fairly competent mini PC while
| having great and silent cooling. However, I suppose most casual
| gamers aren't savvy enough to tinker and install their own OS.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Maybe this will have better luck this time, and who knows,
| studios might finally care to do at Steam OS native builds.
| bigyabai wrote:
| Maybe they'll pull a Cyberpunk, and just add a "Steam Machine"
| setting to their Windows version when you run it in
| translation.
|
| I'd prefer that. It's easier for developers, easier for me, and
| only harms the already-negligible market of curmudgeonly native
| pundits that probably don't use Steam in the first place.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Then eventually they will suffer the same fate as OS/2 "runs
| Windows better".
|
| Don't build castles on kingdoms ruled by other overlords.
| nelsonfigueroa wrote:
| This is exciting. I can't wait to get rid of Windows altogether.
| I only put up with it for gaming purposes.
| martini333 wrote:
| >HDMI 2.0
|
| So no 4K 120 Hz ?
| jbaber wrote:
| Many comments here and on similar posts bring up only keeping
| Windows for games, and only then for games that require heavy
| anti-cheat.
|
| Is there a reason there couldn't be non-regulation copies of
| games that don't do anti-cheat but are otherwise fine. Like metal
| baseball bats, oversized golfballs, etc. Official, but not
| allowed in competitions?
| pndy wrote:
| The body is really simple and appealing but as these are rare
| nowadays I wish they'd consider squeezing an optional optical
| drive inside or perhaps maybe some external one that would stack
| on top.
| sph wrote:
| Aren't external optical drives quite cheap and only require a
| USB connection? You could consider that instead and stack it on
| top.
| vondur wrote:
| The PC looks pretty cool in a small form factor case. And since
| it runs ArchBTW, you can run a bunch of other games too outside
| of Steam. Wondering how the pricing will be...
| KronisLV wrote:
| > CPU Semi-custom AMD Zen 4 6C / 12T up to 4.8 GHz, 30W TDP
|
| > GPU Semi-Custom AMD RDNA3 28CUs 2.45GHz max sustained clock,
| 110W TDP
|
| > RAM 16GB DDR5 + 8GB GDDR6 VRAM
|
| All of those seem a little low (at least judging by power usage)
| when compared to your average tower gaming PC build, but modern
| parts are pretty power efficient and given the form factor (and
| hopefully reasonable price) it seems like it's gonna be a pretty
| good device - definitely enough for most indie titles, all
| e-sports titles, even AA/AAA games with some upscaling/framegen,
| although I predict that your average UE5 slop game will wipe the
| floor with it. That doesn't reflect badly on the hardware, just
| how the devs use the engine in some cases, but at the same time
| being able to use it as a regular SFF PC is nice as well,
| actually a good reason to buy it compared to most consoles.
| tagyro wrote:
| [off-topic rant]
|
| Two companies, both (quasi) monopolies in their field.
|
| Company A built its fortune by exploiting people.
|
| Company B built its fortune by building (somewhat) decent
| products.
|
| Company A developed a very advanced approach to hiring: specific
| questions to assess a candidate's psychometric profile, screens
| to weed out bad choices, and a laser focus on the "top 0.1%".
|
| Company B made it very public that hiring well is vital and
| encouraged every employee to think about it and participate. They
| even published an Employee Handbook years ago [0]
|
| Today, many startups copy Company A's playbook: crafting advanced
| questionnaires, trick questions, and trying to detect behavioural
| traits in their candidates.
|
| No startup (that I know of [1]) has adopted Company B's strategy.
|
| Take your pick on who Company A is. Company B is Valve.
|
| [0]:
| http://media.steampowered.com/apps/valve/Valve_Handbook_LowR...
|
| [1]: I kjnow of one that <<pretends>> to
| paperpunk wrote:
| I love Valve games and I love that they are spending their
| resources in areas I care about and that feel underserved by
| other companies, but I don't think the moral comparison is so
| clear cut. They were also pioneers in micro-transactions, loot
| crates, software distribution tax, and turning Counter-Strike
| skins into a speculative frenzy.
| tagyro wrote:
| I have to admit, I never got into micro-transactions and loot
| craetes. I did play CS, but never cared about skins and
| focused on head shots - I am ignorant in this aspect.
| energy123 wrote:
| A reason to get this instead of Playstation/Xbox is that games on
| Steam are significantly cheaper through keys sites like g2a.com
| or just waiting for discounts.
|
| Playstation/Xbox know you're locked in because you've already
| sunk money into the console, and they use this pricing power
| against you.
| maccard wrote:
| I work in games.
|
| Please don't buy games from g2a and the likes. In the best
| case, g2a make money and the developer don't. in the worst case
| you're buying bogus keys or stolen accounts. Please, just
| pirate games instead.
| echelon wrote:
| > There's an LED strip, y'all!
|
| I've never seen marketing embrace southern culture like this.
|
| I love it, y'all!
| ElijahLynn wrote:
| "One USB-C and four USB-A ports."
|
| I'm confused...
| p1necone wrote:
| Excited for Steam/PC games on ARM to get better as a side effect
| of the Frame running using a Snapdragon CPU.
|
| Running x86 PC games on higher end Android devices already works
| better than you might expect via gamehub/gamehub lite/winlator,
| but it requires much random trying of different driver and
| runtime versions for every game and even then a _lot_ don 't work
| or have issues.
| translucent0 wrote:
| it's meant for gaming and doesn't come with a LAN connection. sad
| lol.
| translucent0 wrote:
| it's meant for 'high-end' gaming but doesn't come with a lan
| connection(?)
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