[HN Gopher] The Perplexing Appeal of the Telepathy Tapes
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Perplexing Appeal of the Telepathy Tapes
        
       Author : surprisetalk
       Score  : 59 points
       Date   : 2025-11-11 13:34 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (asteriskmag.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (asteriskmag.com)
        
       | mtlynch wrote:
       | I listened to the first episode of the _Telepathy Tapes_ , but
       | then I read this article[0] and watched this video[1] of someone
       | using a spellboard with their child and felt like _Telepathy
       | Tapes_ had deceived me.
       | 
       | I hope the people facilitating communication in the podcast
       | aren't faking the communication as obviously as in that Instagram
       | video, but the rest of the article showed specifics of the
       | podcast where it feels like the host is using "sleight of hand"
       | to present evidence in an overly strong way.
       | 
       | [0] https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/the-telepathy-
       | tapes-...
       | 
       | [1] https://www.instagram.com/reel/C_-ln0iO6i6/
        
         | ch4s3 wrote:
         | FC is always fake even thought the facilitator usually believes
         | earnestly that it is real. It works partially through the
         | ideomotor effect where the facilitator subconsciously makes
         | physical queues to the letter they are thinking of next. There
         | are plenty of tests where the facilitator is blind to a piece
         | of information that the subject of facilitation can see and the
         | FC always fails this test.
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | I would guess it is hard on facilitators once they're caught
           | out.
           | 
           | Nobody likes their beliefs to be shattered, especially when
           | it is so brutally caring.
        
         | an0malous wrote:
         | Are you serious? That video is nothing like the tests in the
         | telepathy tapes, they have kids who don't need to be touched at
         | all and spell completely independently.
         | 
         | I hate this whole "skeptic" culture so much, it's just as
         | religious as the people who believe things without evidence.
         | You have a preconceived agenda about things you were told are
         | wacky and you don't even bother to review the evidence before
         | drawing a conclusion.
         | 
         | There is more rigorous peer-reviewed, published evidence for
         | psychic abilities than most sociological and biological fields.
         | 
         | The Ganz experiment has been reproduced 78 times by 46
         | different researchers, but sure it's all fake and a blogger and
         | an one obviously fake strawman instagram video are suddenly
         | enough evidence for the skeptics who constantly demand the
         | highest standard of academic rigor from the other side.
         | 
         | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11134153/
        
           | wredcoll wrote:
           | > There is more rigorous peer-reviewed, published evidence
           | for psychic abilities than most sociological and biological
           | fields.
           | 
           | If this proved that such things were real, there would be a
           | corporation exploiting it by now.
        
             | an0malous wrote:
             | That is folk logic, not rational thinking.
             | 
             | First, the US and Russian governments did spend decades
             | researching these abilities and in the US they CIA, DIA,
             | Army, and other agencies all used psychics. Perhaps they
             | are still using them, or maybe they found satellites and
             | drones easier to work with.
             | 
             | The other issue is that psi seems to have strong
             | statistical significance but low effect size. It's not a
             | crystal ball, the inconsistent results make it inconvenient
             | for things like stock markets and espionage.
             | 
             | Finally, maybe people do use psychic abilities but they
             | lack the introspection abilities to recognize it. Where do
             | your thoughts really come from? If you're a stock trader
             | and you have a hunch or insight about an opportunity, where
             | did it come from? Sure you likely gathered data and
             | evidence to support your investment, but didn't you first
             | have a hunch or a fuzzy idea that seemingly came from
             | nowhere?
             | 
             | We have much to learn about consciousness. I'm not asking
             | anyone to accept psi on faith, but this culture of
             | skepticism boils down to "psi isn't real because psi can't
             | be real" and I believe it's holding back our understanding
             | of reality to be so close minded.
        
       | almosthere wrote:
       | I haven't watched the TT but anecdote. One of our friends has an
       | autistic child, but fairly high functioning. When he was about 6
       | or 7 one morning this child complained he didn't want to go to a
       | weekly playground and told his mom the slide was broken and it
       | wouldn't be fun. Mom said what are you talking about - when they
       | arrived, the slide was literally broken. The friend said there
       | was no possible way he should have known that (I don't know the
       | details) but this child does not have a phone and is under non-
       | stop supervision.
        
         | igor47 wrote:
         | Selection/confirmation bias. Think of all the times the child
         | told their mother some other random things which turned out not
         | to be true. Those incidents don't stick out because children
         | say nonsense all the time.
        
           | pfdietz wrote:
           | Or, perhaps the slide was cracked the previous week and now
           | had completely failed.
        
         | pulvinar wrote:
         | There are other possibilities, the most likely being that the
         | slide was already in the process of breaking when the child
         | used it last, and he noticed that before others did.
        
         | driggs wrote:
         | Of every story you've ever heard about this child, this
         | singular event is your evidence for telepathy? Shouldn't that
         | alone be strong evidence against your interpretation?
         | 
         | I'm reminded of the anecdotal, arbitrary miracles attributed to
         | Jesus in the gospels of the New Testament. An omniscient, all-
         | powerful son of god chooses to prove his infinite power by
         | providing wine at a party.
         | 
         | Or maybe there was another, much more likely and mundane
         | explanation.
        
         | wredcoll wrote:
         | My pre-adolescent child says all sorts of things, occasionally
         | some of them turn out to be true!
        
       | igor47 wrote:
       | > skeptics generally don't care to push back
       | 
       | They _do_ care to push back though! It 's just that there's much
       | more of a market for wishful pseudoscientific bullshit than for
       | careful, history and evidence based sceptical bashing of hopes.
       | Just another example of how broken our information ecosystem is.
       | 
       | I learned about TT from my favorite podcast the SGU, where it was
       | placed in the historical context of the FC controversy and then
       | roundly debunked.
       | 
       | https://www.theskepticsguide.org/
        
         | VMG wrote:
         | I am eternally grateful for the SGU.
         | 
         | Our escape to reality indeed
        
         | an0malous wrote:
         | It's not pseudoscientific, it's one of the most rigorously
         | studied topics in academia and has pushed the standard for
         | psychology research: https://www.deanradin.com/recommended-
         | references
         | 
         | The Ganzfield experiments have been reproduced 78 times by 46
         | researchers and this review article concludes that anomalous
         | cognition meets the standards of proof:
         | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11134153/
         | 
         | The president of the American Statistical Association has
         | reviewed the evidence for psi and said: "Using the standards
         | applied to any other area of science, it is concluded that
         | psychic functioning has been well-established"
         | 
         | https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/202...
         | 
         | Of course you don't believe it because you listen to a podcast
         | about skepticism so it's a dogma for you, you've drawn your
         | conclusion without even considering the evidence. Skepticism is
         | a religion as much as Catholicism in Galileo's time.
        
       | Hugsun wrote:
       | I listened to a few episodes on a recommendation. The episodes
       | lead you to believe that the host is some agnostic person that's
       | just curious about these reports. They are not as the original
       | lead is from another superstition believer podcast.
       | 
       | They also present the cameraman as a token skeptic, who is of
       | course quickly swayed into belief.
       | 
       | They lean heavily on a host of tricks with long histories of non-
       | reproduction when tested rigorously.
       | 
       | A "scientist" (known crackpot and woo believer) is employed to
       | make the experiments sound. And their terrible academic
       | reputation was explained away using conspiratorial arguments.
       | 
       | I found TT wholly unconvincing and consider it a scam to get
       | people to pay for the actual evidence. I won't pay of course and
       | confidently assume it to be poor based on the publicly available
       | material.
        
       | parpfish wrote:
       | > For months, I was puzzled as to why a great number of listeners
       | wholly ignorant of the autistic experience were so enamoured by
       | The Telepathy Tapes. ... I feel I'm finally starting to
       | understand. Moving forward, the series has expressed a desire to
       | explore the wider nature of consciousness and explore topics
       | outside of the autistic community.
       | 
       | It's right there in the name -- Telepathy. It's not a show about
       | autism, that's just a means to the end. It's a show about the
       | paranormal and it appeals to people that want to learn about the
       | paranormal.
       | 
       | The fact the the author has this 'revelation' about the true
       | appeal at the end is strange. it'd be like having a big
       | breakthrough that "i though people were watching The X-Files
       | because they were all interested in learning about FBI
       | bureaucracy, but it turns out people are interested in aliens!"
        
         | rdtsc wrote:
         | > It's right there in the name -- Telepathy. It's not a show
         | about autism, that's just a means to the end.
         | 
         | It has to be both. If it was just about "hey, look random
         | fortune tellers are telepathic, let's watch 500 hours of video
         | about it" that won't go anywhere. It would be dismissed right
         | off the bat. But it has to be something like autism. Everyone
         | has someone in their family or acquaintance circle who has
         | autism nowadays. Some are non-verbal and it's sad and
         | frustrating not being able to talk with them. Aha, but what if
         | there was a way? - Telepathy to the rescue. So it's like a
         | necessary two part thing.
        
           | cogman10 wrote:
           | What I don't like is that these things ignore the individual.
           | Rather than dealing with "this is a nonverbal person, they
           | likely have limited understanding" people that believe this
           | garbage think "oh, this is a magic guru with super powers and
           | wisdom beyond comprehension".
           | 
           | That becomes dangerous when it comes to watching these
           | individuals. No, they really don't know to not play in the
           | street. They don't know not to eat the berries. They aren't
           | connected with animals and don't know some can hurt them.
        
       | munificent wrote:
       | I have a pet theory (certainly unoriginal) that humans as a
       | species feel a compelling need to indulge in some form of magical
       | thinking in order to cope with existential horror.
       | 
       | A few things are simultaneously true:
       | 
       | 1. We have a truly fantastic level of agency as actors in the
       | world. A single human can build a house out of raw materials,
       | write a book series with hundreds of settings and believable
       | characters, start a war, etc.
       | 
       | 2. In order to make the most of that agency, we need a
       | psychological system that makes us feel empowered to use it.
       | Having nature's most impressive brain would be pointless if we
       | all believed everything we tried was doomed to fail anyway so we
       | should just sit in the dirt and eat slugs.
       | 
       | 3. We are also corporeal objects made of surprisingly fragile
       | meat and bone subject to the careless whims of physics. Through
       | no fault or intention of anyone, all of your agency can be
       | completely taken in an instant. Just be standing in the wrong
       | place when a tree branch snaps off, have one cell misdivide and
       | become cancerous, choke on a grape.
       | 
       | We need 2 in order to make the most of 1. But the more we believe
       | ourselves in control, the more horrific contemplating 3 becomes.
       | 
       | I often wonder if we evolved magical thinking and all of its
       | manifestations like religion, parapsychology, destiny, fate, etc.
       | in order to hold these three realizations in some sort of stable
       | configuration.
        
         | cactusplant7374 wrote:
         | My theory is that this all about "I know something you don't
         | know." The people I have met with the most fringe theories
         | don't have much agency in life. I suppose it could be a form of
         | narcissism as well.
        
         | WJW wrote:
         | In addition to the accidental things already listed under 3,
         | there is also the additional points that:
         | 
         | - Other people exist and they also have a lot of agency, the
         | exercise of which sometimes directly interferes with your life.
         | Not to mention how much capacity bigger entities like countries
         | have to mess with your life it they wanted to.
         | 
         | - In opposition to point 1: while humans do have tremendous
         | agency, they also have very little agency when seen against how
         | big the universe really is. There are more stars in the sky
         | than people on Earth, by a considerable margin. Nobody can do
         | anything at all to influence them. Hell, we can't even
         | manipulate the orbit of our own planet in any meaningful way. I
         | think many of the magical thinking paradigms are ways to cope
         | with that as well.
        
         | 0xdeadbeefbabe wrote:
         | Is a game of poker magical thinking?
        
           | munificent wrote:
           | It can be, depending on your thought process while playing.
           | If you're indulging in feeling like your willpower can affect
           | what cards get drawn, then yes. If you're just thinking about
           | betting strategy and your opponents, then less so.
           | 
           | My own magical thinking indulgence is fishing. I'll tell
           | myself dumb stuff like "the next cast will be the one". I
           | think any sort of gambling-like experience where random
           | chance is heavily involved can be an outlet for magical
           | thinking, healthy or otherwise.
        
         | pino999 wrote:
         | I enjoy mythologies and partake in magical thinking. Religion
         | is a tool, you can use on yourself.
         | 
         | I don't mind 3. Two is a bit over the top, I feel. When I was
         | atheist I didn't need such tools or believe everything would
         | fail.
         | 
         | A different data point.
        
         | fellowniusmonk wrote:
         | Humans make meaning, as far as we have observed we are the
         | meaning making organ of the universe in a totally literalist
         | physicalized sense. Stars convert mass to energy, humans
         | convert energy to semantic meaning with high syntactic
         | complexity, density and causal leverage.
         | 
         | We build the libraries, we deflect the asteroids for the
         | foreseeable future (we really should check and see if dolphins
         | would like thumbs.)
         | 
         | Flight existed before apes but - in a purely non-woo sense - a
         | few of us gave the universe the how and why of it.
         | 
         | We haven't yet definitively ruled out the possibility of
         | altering spacetime topology, or solving entropy, or plucking
         | entities out of the light cone.
         | 
         | Humans tend to bring what they desire into the world. Wheat
         | threshers, combines, tricorders, harry potter cloaks.
         | 
         | Listen to interviews of people who lived from the mid 1800's to
         | the mid 1900's. They say the whole damn world changed,
         | everything changed.
         | 
         | Now,
         | 
         | A large contingent of Humans want eternal life, want
         | resurrection.
         | 
         | There is this kind of speculative naturalists pascals wager at
         | play right now that we are losing at.
         | 
         | Where a certain contingent of the population simply refuses to
         | believe that the earth could be destroyed by an asteroid, or if
         | it was it will be part of the fulfillment of their wishes for a
         | new heaven and earth.
         | 
         | But if they have the least doubt in the quite moments of the
         | night they need to realize. That if only what we empirically
         | observe is stable and true, then their only hope for their
         | desires coming true might be humans making it happen. We don't
         | know yet, we just don't know, it's early days yet, nothing or
         | everything might be in the future.
         | 
         | So we really need to preserve humans so they can keep making
         | meaning, make our existence more resilient and keep pushing the
         | edge and expansion of knowledge.
         | 
         | At one point humans thought travel to the moon was impossible,
         | some living people still do, but the very strange implications
         | is that us and other meaning making agents might actually fill
         | the universe with meaning, we might end up giving the universe
         | meaning, as semantically less complex dna bootstrapped us we
         | may bootstrap the whole universe.
         | 
         | I find it highly unlikely but I cannot rule it out and no one
         | else can either. We really need to protect human and the life
         | we can see.
        
         | Loquebantur wrote:
         | Ironically, scientism is also a manifestation of "magical
         | thinking": Going through ritualistic motions of scientific
         | appearances without actual understanding, getting positive
         | feedback from the multitudes being just as incompetent.
         | 
         | Here, with the "Telepathy Tapes", the subject matter is
         | immediately categorized as "magic": stuff deemed to be
         | impossible because of it "obviously/implicitly contradicting
         | scientific knowledge".
         | 
         | But that contradiction doesn't really exist? To give a
         | decidedly clumsy, but entirely "physically possible",
         | explanation of "telepathy": little green men from outer space
         | might facilitate that effect using extremely advanced
         | technology, hiding their presence and foiling attempts at
         | getting easily understood evidence.
         | 
         | While such a scenario is highly inconvenient for current human
         | academia to address, it's not "impossible" in any way? Isn't it
         | really "magical thinking" to assume, such "outlandish"
         | scenarios were excluded by natural law?
        
           | Yizahi wrote:
           | So, to explain one invisible and unprovable thing for which
           | there is zero evidence, you have invented a completely
           | different invisible and unprovable thing for which there is
           | also zero evidence. Great job :)
        
             | ctoth wrote:
             | But don't you see? My two invisible things with no evidence
             | support each other, giving each other evidence! Hey, what
             | are you doing... put down that razor!
        
             | Loquebantur wrote:
             | There are many "invisible" things that exist. "Telepathy"
             | isn't "unprovable". The "Telepathy Tapes" are evidence in
             | favor of telepathy (It appears, you confuse "evidence" with
             | "proof"). The explanation I suggested is neither
             | "invisible" nor "unprovable". There actually is evidence
             | for it as well (again, your idea of evidence is wrong).
             | 
             | In other words, your assessment is entirely counter-factual
             | and simply false.
             | 
             | Noting the absurd down-votes on my comment in conjunction
             | with the lack of comments providing any rational argument
             | is actually evidence in favor of the hypothesis presented
             | there.
        
               | munificent wrote:
               | _> The  "Telepathy Tapes" are evidence in favor of
               | telepathy (It appears, you confuse "evidence" with
               | "proof")._
               | 
               | To the degree that "E.T." is evidence in favor of alien
               | life, yes.
        
             | almosthere wrote:
             | The problem with science approaching telepathy tapes is
             | that a parent will say:
             | 
             | My kid knows when another kid is sick.
             | 
             | Scientist: We have to apply scientific rigor, so let's ask
             | him for tomorrow's lotto numbers.
             | 
             | Parents: Yeah, we said he can tell you when another kid is
             | sick and it's 100% correct every time.
             | 
             | Scientist: That proves this is all bullshit.
        
           | foltik wrote:
           | Ritualistic "magical thinking" stays the same regardless of
           | outcomes or new information. Science does the exact opposite
           | - predictive power determines what's true. Nobody said your
           | alien hypothesis is impossible; just that it's highly
           | implausible. No predictions, no evidence, no way to test it.
        
             | Loquebantur wrote:
             | Your assessment of "magical thinking" being impervious to
             | criticism funnily applies just the same to the attitude
             | exhibited here regarding "fringed" ideas like "telepathy".
             | The "Telepathy Tapes" are "new information", people's
             | attitudes stay the same regardless.
             | 
             | "Predictive power" isn't the source of truth in science,
             | evidence for that attribute is. Given even only a hint of
             | such evidence, scientists are supposed to work in order to
             | acquire more, not to ignore the hint because that work
             | would inconvenience them.
             | 
             | You claim that "alien hypothesis" was implausible, but that
             | statement would require solid arguments in its favor. And
             | those don't exist. You rather argue from ignorance, but
             | absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
             | 
             | Again, your pretense of "no predictions, no evidence, no
             | way to test it" is simply counter-factual. You argue from
             | ignorance. (To reiterate, evidence isn't the same as
             | "proof")
        
               | foltik wrote:
               | The "Telepathy Tapes" aren't new information. They repeat
               | a setup already tested under controlled conditions:
               | facilitators know the answers and guide participants
               | through non-telepathic cues, usually without realizing
               | it. When those cues are blocked, the "telepathy"
               | disappears. Scientists did the rational thing, tried to
               | replicate the effect, and it failed.
               | 
               | Absence of evidence isn't proof of absence, but when
               | every controlled test comes up empty, that's the result.
               | You might as well call a magician's card trick new
               | evidence for magic.
        
               | Loquebantur wrote:
               | You invoke magic when you pretend, those "tests" were
               | somehow "proof" instead of merely evidence against the
               | claim.
               | 
               | Argument from authority is no valid scientific approach,
               | neither is you putting up a straw-man (your claim how the
               | supposed effect came to be). Just because that's how you
               | can imagine how the "trick" might work doesn't mean, it's
               | what's actually happening. Just because the result
               | (dis-)pleases you doesn't mean, the experiment was done
               | (in-)correctly.
        
               | foltik wrote:
               | I am not invoking magic. When proper controls are added,
               | the effect disappears. That is probabilistic evidence
               | against the claim, not proof of anything. Just the
               | outcome of repeated tests.
               | 
               | No one is appealing to authority. The experiments are
               | public, the methods transparent, and the results
               | reproducible. If there is a better design, describe it.
               | 
               | Facilitator cueing is not a guess or straw man. It has
               | been directly measured in controlled studies, and when
               | those cues are removed, performance drops to chance. That
               | is what the data shows.
               | 
               | You say tests are not proof, which is true, but repeated
               | failure still counts. You call cueing a straw man, though
               | it has been measured directly. Is there any outcome that
               | would convince you the effect isn't there? If not then
               | this isn't a discussion about evidence anymore.
        
         | Yizahi wrote:
         | That need is not a cause, it's a reason. The cause is mental
         | variation we have as a species and which is never openly talked
         | about.
        
         | mjklin wrote:
         | "A tendency to superstition is of the very essence of humanity
         | and, when we think we have completely extinguished it, we shall
         | find it retreating into the strangest nooks and corners, that
         | it may issue out thence on the first occasion it can do with
         | safety."
         | 
         | - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
        
           | msuniverse2026 wrote:
           | That is funny because the occult/mystical system of
           | Anthroposophy is built on the foundations of a Goethean
           | approach to science.
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | Enter: the enduring appeal of superheroes.
         | 
         | Notably, entering as our supernatural folk heroes started to
         | fade in the mass communication age.
        
         | messe wrote:
         | > H L H Hn I Y Hn' s HI?
         | 
         | > "Yes! The sun would have risen just the same, yes?"
         | 
         | > n
         | 
         | > "Oh, come on. You can't expect me to believe that. It's an
         | astronomical fact."
         | 
         | > H sn L n H RIsn
         | 
         | > "Really? Then what would have happened, pray?"
         | 
         | >  R BLL  LIng gs L H ILLIn H RL
        
           | lukebechtel wrote:
           | Just finished hogfather and loved it.
        
       | andrewla wrote:
       | Blocked & Reported (the podcast) did two episodes on this [1] and
       | [2] that breaks down most of the controversy. This has completely
       | ruined me on anything even adjacent to this, like whether Koko
       | the gorilla could actually communicate.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.blockedandreported.org/p/episode-210-facilitatin...
       | 
       | [2] https://www.blockedandreported.org/p/episode-242-the-
       | telepat...
        
         | MangoToupe wrote:
         | Of course Koko could communicate. The beef is over whether she
         | engaged in true use of human language.
        
         | Loquebantur wrote:
         | A podcast manages to convince you, but you cannot tell what
         | exactly the issue is that renders "anything even adjacent"
         | logically impossible?
         | 
         | What about the possibility of being fooled the other way
         | around, along with the majority? Truth isn't decided by
         | majority vote after all.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Sure. But often one of the two sides has an obvious agenda.
           | 
           | I thought of James Randi and "spoon bender", Uri Geller. I
           | suppose if you're cynical enough you can presume that both
           | are desperate for airtime, self-promotion and we should
           | therefore be skeptical of both.
           | 
           | Randi though for me has much less to gain in exposing frauds.
        
             | schiffern wrote:
             | Being convinced without the ability to explain the argument
             | is troubling.
             | 
             | But more importantly, mainstream scientists have the
             | "obvious agenda" (well documented by now) to avoid ridicule
             | and mockery. So if you're willing to weaponize ridicule and
             | mockery, you can successfully suppress scientific
             | investigation into whatever areas you choose.
             | 
             | Let's not forget, the CIA invented the very term
             | "conspiracy theory" to suppress investigation into illegal
             | intelligence activities.
        
               | pinkmuffinere wrote:
               | I mean, at some point we are convinced as a convenience.
               | You can use mathematical formulations describing _how_ a
               | motor works without understanding why they are true.
               | Similarly, I don't believe that there is a grand
               | conspiracy involving chemtrails, even though I haven't
               | proven that all the theories I've heard are false. I'm
               | just fairly confident that this _could_ be done, given
               | enough time and resources. But practically, I have to get
               | on with my life.
        
               | Loquebantur wrote:
               | Being lazy incurs costs. With regard to "conspiracies"
               | that cost is explicitly vulnerability to them.
               | 
               | Neither "chemtrails", "UFOs&aliens" nor "telepathy"
               | appear particularly "plausible". But that could just as
               | well be a statement about your method of determining
               | 'plausibility'?
               | 
               | You invoke limited personal resources to justify
               | complacency. Likely, you estimate the costs of being
               | wrong as negligible since you never really thought about
               | possible implications and do not know about any being
               | particularly relevant to you. That's an argument from
               | ignorance.
        
               | pinkmuffinere wrote:
               | Ya, I agree, my main point is that arguments from
               | ignorance are acceptable sometimes. My main claim to
               | schiffern is something like "Being convinced without the
               | ability to explain the argument is sometimes fine." As
               | specific examples, I propose chemtrails and how-motors-
               | work. I think it is totally acceptable to dismiss the in-
               | depth explanation for most people, because for most
               | people they just aren't that important.
               | 
               | Are you claiming that you never dismiss anything without
               | fully understanding it? Do you completely understand all
               | of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Baha'i, etc? I
               | think it is possible to generate an infinite list of
               | things you don't fully understand. And yet you of course
               | have to take a practical stance on some of these things
               | for your everyday life.
        
               | robocat wrote:
               | > the CIA invented the very term "conspiracy theory"
               | 
               | I find the best conspiracies are supported by facts
        
               | schiffern wrote:
               | Catch 22. The best way to avoid hard facts is to scare
               | away scientists. ;)
               | 
               | But I agree, this is just garbage pseudoscience. I
               | listened to the Banned & Reported episode, and TL;DR the
               | Telepathy Tapes experiments had a non-blinded
               | 'facilitator' _touching_ the blindfolded  'psychic.' My
               | mind immediately went to Clever Hans, before the podcast
               | hosts even brought it up later in the episode.
               | 
               | Just watch any Derren Brown video to see how easy it is
               | to 'cue' someone from across the room. This is James
               | Randi 101, folks...
        
       | sunscream89 wrote:
       | I am shocked that I cannot comment that we are not alone in our
       | own minds. That an entire culture exists among us who can network
       | our minds and meddle in our thoughts.
       | 
       | Or that conventional society is cognitively dissonant for
       | ignoring this prevailing truth, even if the examples are confused
       | and unscientific.
       | 
       | Science is not ultimate truth.
       | 
       | Science is constrained ignorance in pursuit of existential
       | truths.
       | 
       | We are not alone in our own minds and an entire long standing
       | culture exists among us who can mess with our thoughts.
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | Sounds like schizophrenia.
        
           | sunscream89 wrote:
           | It is very like schizophrenia.
           | 
           | In fact, I doubt most accounts of voices in our minds could
           | be technically considered schizophrenia by any scientific
           | measure of the brain.
        
             | nemosaltat wrote:
             | Nemo saltat sobrius... nobody dances sober nisi forte
             | insanit... unless he is insane
             | 
             | Your user name, HN join date, and comment history (largely
             | flagged) are intriguing to me. Do you have any longer form
             | version of your ideas publicly available?
        
               | sunscream89 wrote:
               | I share my normal as of you congenial side to acrue
               | karma, so that I may burn it saying truthful things the
               | mind coddled intelligentsia do not want to hear.
               | 
               | For me, these are the hare.
               | 
               | I will message something from your profile. Thanks for
               | taking an interest in the greatest estrangement of our
               | humanity.
               | 
               | I have had a hand full of former HN accounts. Some search
               | condition ("thought control") may reveal them all.
        
         | thisisbrians wrote:
         | I can chime in to say: the scientific method, so far, cannot
         | explain consciousness, and that the whole materialistic basis
         | for physics is facing a crisis in the face of quantum
         | mechanics, etc. Most of us have utmost confidence in a method
         | that so far has nothing to say whatsoever about the most
         | important quality of our existence: that we are aware.
        
           | sunscream89 wrote:
           | Consciousness is the inflection upon the potential of
           | existential being. One might say existential reality peering
           | back upon itself.
           | 
           | Awareness is merely a temporal feedback in the higher order
           | cognitive biotechnology.
           | 
           | Awareness is the tip of consciousness. Consciousness is
           | programmable, can be manipulated, augmented, even inhibited.
           | All with or without awareness.
        
           | wredcoll wrote:
           | The "scientific method" doesn't explain anything. It's a
           | method for evaluating claims people make.
           | 
           | The fact that there is no scientifically verifiable theory of
           | consciousness has no bearing on the science that helped
           | people create, say, my computer monitor.
        
         | danlugo92 wrote:
         | This place has always been babylon central.
         | 
         | I also remember when hating Apple was cool you could not say
         | one single good thing about the iPhone Mac etc they would just
         | pile on you like it's high school all over again.
         | 
         | Remember the cool people are out and about, the un-cool will
         | always be over-represented in internet discussion.
        
         | hn_acc1 wrote:
         | Can you give an example of what kinds of thoughts are "meddled"
         | with?
        
           | sunscream89 wrote:
           | I risk great karmatic death by over sharing.
           | 
           | I'll name a few, though you won't like them and it is
           | important to know the super elite can mess with your mind
           | while stone cold sober like you're drunk out of your senses
           | and you their hypnotized puppet. The mass mob culture train
           | for years to perfect "special effects" which range from
           | audible voices to weird sexual things, like infamous gaydar.
           | Thought control culture is responsible for sexual dysphoria
           | for instance. It's like a mostly anonymized internet only
           | networks among our minds. No inherent rules, only hierarchies
           | among the mobs.
           | 
           | Special effects include: voices, spinning thoughts, emotional
           | shifts. They can even give you farts.
           | 
           | Individually these things are mostly harmless and they
           | obviously do these things because they are a culture of ...
           | jerks. Combined they can drive someone mad. Someone public
           | shooting mad.
           | 
           | For the mentally (intellectually or emotionally) advanced,
           | there are whole inner worlds within ourselves just as or more
           | compelling than whatever is going on outside. Mostly they
           | play there, and then screw with us when they want something.
           | 
           | What are they up to? They are the game masters. And their
           | mobs caught up in their drama. Protected by the comfortable
           | lie of modernity, these fiddle with us and influence our
           | mindsets to drive our illusions of self determinism.
           | 
           | Anything more specific and I may be considered inflammatory.
        
       | sys32768 wrote:
       | Reminds me of how in the early 1980s we used my great-
       | grandmother's Ouija board to spook ourselves to no end.
       | 
       | It was telling us names, giving us addresses, and all sorts of
       | serious stuff you wouldn't expect adolescents to make up.
        
       | aaroninsf wrote:
       | PSA the _appeal_ is the only perplexing part,
       | 
       | and ITT many of us agree, it's not perplexing, it's just humans
       | engaging in the same magical thinking and coping strategies we
       | always to.
       | 
       | The "telepathy" is 100% a fabrication of parents desperate to
       | believe their situation and kids are something other than they
       | are.
        
       | marze wrote:
       | I was interested to learn recently that Alan Turing believed
       | telepathy was a real thing. At least that is what someone wrote.
        
         | ianburrell wrote:
         | He brought ESP up in his paper about the Turing Test. My
         | understanding is that it is possible counter argument to his
         | proposed machine intelligence.
         | 
         | Belief in ESP back then is more understandable since they
         | didn't have the experiments that disproved it, or the knowledge
         | of biology that doesn't show a mechanism.
        
       | speak_plainly wrote:
       | An ideal listen for anyone looking to sharpen their critical
       | thinking. The reasoning moves are subtle, and it's easy to miss
       | the small leaps and omissions that reveal how persuasive but
       | unsound arguments work.
       | 
       | If you want to test your logic radar, keep a Reasoning-Error
       | Bingo Card handy -- here are some of the most common moves to
       | watch for:
       | 
       | - Anecdotal Evidence as Proof - moving personal testimonies
       | presented as sufficient evidence.
       | 
       | - Cherry-picking - highlighting the few "hits" or successful
       | moments and ignoring null or failed sessions.
       | 
       | - Facilitator/Ideomotor Bias - unacknowledged influence of
       | helpers who already know the answers.
       | 
       | - Lack of Experimental Control - demonstrations without blinding
       | or verification procedures.
       | 
       | - Equivocation on "Spelling" and "Communication" - shifting
       | definitions of what counts as independent expression.
       | 
       | - Over-extension/Universal Claim - extrapolating from a handful
       | of cases to "all nonspeakers."
       | 
       | - Appeal to Emotion and Narrative Framing - using distressing or
       | inspiring stories to disarm skepticism.
       | 
       | - Appeal to Authority - invoking credentials, research funding,
       | or famous supporters in place of data.
       | 
       | - Confirmation Bias/Omission of Counter-Evidence - excluding
       | decades of research debunking similar methods.
       | 
       | - Shifting the Burden of Proof - implying critics must disprove
       | telepathy rather than producers proving it.
       | 
       | - Quantum-Language Hijack - invoking "quantum entanglement" or
       | "energy fields" as pseudo-explanations.
       | 
       | - False Dichotomy ("open-minded vs. materialist") - framing
       | skepticism as moral or emotional failure.
       | 
       | - Paradigm-Appeal Fallacy - claiming we're witnessing a
       | scientific "revolution" instead of providing data.
       | 
       | - Ambiguous Success Criteria - redefining what counts as a
       | correct answer or "connection."
       | 
       | - Halo Effect through Compassion - moral halo from helping
       | disabled children transferred to truth of the claim.
       | 
       | Ironically, in trying to transcend "materialism," the series
       | repeats Descartes' old mistake -- treating mind and matter as
       | mutually exclusive instead of as aspects of a single natural
       | order. That move saddles them with the same impossible burden
       | Descartes faced: explaining how an immaterial mind could causally
       | interact with the physical world on top of everything else they
       | need to prove.
        
         | martin-t wrote:
         | This should be taught in primary school.
         | 
         | I had a realization that logical biases and fallacies form
         | well-known patterns only at uni and only on my own.
         | 
         | I then had a much worse realization - that most people still
         | don't know about them and that they don't care.
         | 
         | You can't make people care, that only comes when they are the
         | ones getting hurt by others being manipulated. But you can give
         | them tools to know what they should care about when that
         | happens.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-11-11 23:01 UTC)