[HN Gopher] Reminder to passengers ahead of move to 100% digital...
___________________________________________________________________
Reminder to passengers ahead of move to 100% digital boarding
passes
Author : teekert
Score : 129 points
Date : 2025-11-10 15:46 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (corporate.ryanair.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (corporate.ryanair.com)
| ivanjermakov wrote:
| I'm not installing airline app. So electronic tickets (email
| PDFs) won't work either?
| lsxr wrote:
| Agreed here. I'll check in online, but I'll only install their
| app as a last resort. I'm hopeful that boarding passes are
| still sent as PDF. Then again, I rarely fly Ryanair anyway.
| shrx wrote:
| "passengers will no longer be able to download and print a
| physical paper boarding pass"
|
| Doesn't look like it will be possible. That's a deal breaker
| for me, I don't need another app spying on me on my phone.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| The announcement says no downloads and required use of their
| app, but the dedicated help page says otherwise:
|
| https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-
| pa...
| jonplackett wrote:
| Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why are you specifically
| adverse to installing airline's apps?
| everdrive wrote:
| I'm averse to installing any apps. I don't want to use a
| smartphone, and I don't want companies or governments to
| mandate their usage. As a consumer you have no real way of
| knowing which apps are tracking you and selling your data and
| which are not. Every app is suspect, even if some are
| legitimately clean. Every single company that says "just use
| the app" is another roll of the dice: will they get breached
| and reveal my data? Are they tracking me and selling to
| advertisers / insurance companies / police? Consumers really
| have no way of knowing for sure.
| ranger_danger wrote:
| It's an unnecessary invasion of privacy for one, and not
| everyone has or wants a smartphone or to install third party
| apps, or carry it with them onto the plane. It could also be
| dead, broken or otherwise incompatible, or the passenger may
| have a disability or religious reason that prevents them from
| using it.
| ryandrake wrote:
| In addition to the great reasons others posted, I'll point
| out another one: Most airline apps won't even install or run
| on my device anymore. So, even if I wanted to use the
| airline's app (I don't), their developers have chosen to not
| support my device, and therefore I cannot even install or run
| it.
|
| If a company is going to make something a requirement like
| this, they need to also invest in the effort to support
| everyone's device, and not block people with old, icky
| phones.
| Zambyte wrote:
| I don't carry a smartphone.
| subscribed wrote:
| Excessive surveillance.
|
| Selling my location, list of the installed apps, cookies,
| whatever they can extract.
|
| That's for starters.
|
| But most importantly why the hell should I be forced to use
| phone app if having a printed pass was good enough?
|
| I need to reverse your surprising question into: should I be
| expected to install, update, maintain and use apps of ALL the
| service providers I use?
|
| Separate app for train provider A, another for train provider
| B, another for bus provider C.
|
| No paper tickets.
|
| An app to purchase groceries, another app to pay for the
| parking, another app to buy a coffee, another app to buy a
| newspaper in the kiosk. And app to check in the hotel, an app
| to order food in the restaurant, an app to call the tax
| return website (not the phone, an app).
|
| Can you see now how absurd is to normalise it?
| zzo38computer wrote:
| In addition to that (which is already bad), you will need a
| compatible smart phone (I do not have and do not intend to
| have; other people mentioned the same thing), and if you do
| have then it might use more battery power and more disk
| space, and sometimes the battery power will run out (or it
| can fail due to many other reasons), so it is even worse
| than what you mention.
| greenchair wrote:
| Think about the future ramifications if more companies were
| to implement this invasive garbage. Do you want to have to
| install mcdonalds app to order their food? Great clips app to
| get a hair cut?
| embedding-shape wrote:
| And more importantly from
| https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ryanair/id504270602 which people
| now are required to download and install:
|
| > Data Linked to You - Location, Contact Info, Identifiers, Usage
| Data, Other Data
| ezfe wrote:
| Any app that you log into "links" anything in your profile to
| your phone, so of course it links this information.
|
| I'm all for calling out bad privacy practice, like when a
| Weather app says it links your contact info. But an airline app
| inherently does this.
|
| Did you know that Ryanair knows your name when you fly! They
| even know what city you're flying from.
| subscribed wrote:
| They didn't necessarily have to know my main email address
| though! Or a list of the installed apps.
| Fernicia wrote:
| You can reject all of these permission requests and the app
| still works.
| embedding-shape wrote:
| "Other Data" and "Identifiers" too? Don't remember seeing
| requests for those in any application.
| fph wrote:
| The app still works /for now/.
| meindnoch wrote:
| "Ryanair, Europe's No.1 airline, today (Thurs, 6 Nov) reminded
| passengers that from Wed (12 Nov) it will move to 100% digital
| boarding passes. This means that from Wed (12 Nov) passengers
| will no longer be able to download and print a physical paper
| boarding pass but will instead need to use the digital boarding
| pass generated in their "myRyanair" app during check-in to board
| their Ryanair flight."
|
| Why does it matter whether the boarding pass barcode is scanned
| from a printed paper vs a phone screen?
| saubeidl wrote:
| Their app lets them exfiltrate data on you and use it for
| advertising/sell it to ad networks.
| reliablereason wrote:
| they say it is it's cause its greener but they could have
| used a website.
| saubeidl wrote:
| A pdf on your phone would've done that as well, but that's
| what they're explicitly banning with this move.
| netsharc wrote:
| Didn't Uber get caught tracking their users (I want to say
| victims but there are actual victims of Uber sexual
| harassment/assault) even though they didn't have the app
| open?
|
| Tracking where your passengers go on vacation would be useful
| data for them. Sheesh you could even track flights: "User was
| online at London Heathrow until 11:45, and was then offline,
| and came back online again in Madrid at 14:30, the
| corresponding flight at those times was EasyJet 78".
| jackhalford wrote:
| Flying now requires you to own a smartphone
| fanatic2pope wrote:
| And to install an app, which almost certainly has privacy
| invasion baked into the terms of use.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| With Ryanair. Something to be avoided if at all possible, but
| a very bad precedent in any case.
| conception wrote:
| Maybe it's nfc not qr.
| tencentshill wrote:
| It's may be a dynamic QR code that changes at intervals.
| cl3misch wrote:
| It has to be compatible with the physical scanners at the
| airport, e.g. before security. So Ryanair probably is not
| very flexible in how they design the code.
| fph wrote:
| Does the QR code that you use when boarding have to be the
| same QR code that you use before security, though?
| Fernicia wrote:
| Anti theft perhaps? Last March a guy was able to sneak onto a
| Delta flight by taking a picture of someone else's QR code.
| Some ticketing apps have temporal QR codes that are resistant
| to this exploit.
| meindnoch wrote:
| They didn't verify the passenger's identity at the gate?
| redfern314 wrote:
| ID is never checked at the gate for domestic flights, only
| international, at least in the US.
|
| This was the case being referenced:
| https://abc7.com/post/wicliff-yves-fleurizard-stowaway-
| secur...
| Zambyte wrote:
| I have never been asked to show ID on domestic flights at
| the gate.
| mikestew wrote:
| For a period after 9/11, ID was required to be shown at
| the gate on domestic flights. I don't recall when that
| stopped, but it's been a while (and apparently long
| enough ago that apparently some have never had to do it).
| toast0 wrote:
| I seem to recall IDs occasionally being checked at the
| gate prior to 9/11 as well. Memory is fuzzy, but they
| weren't checking boarding passes or ids at security. But
| back then I would always get my boarding pass at the
| check-in counter (sometimes exchanging an _actual_ ticket
| for the boarding pass).
| mikestew wrote:
| _Memory is fuzzy..._
|
| Yeah, I can't recall well enough to agree with you, can't
| remember enough to dispute it, either. That was a long
| time ago. :-)
| toast0 wrote:
| I spent some time looking for old information, best I
| could come up with was this article [1] from 1996 about
| requiring photo ID at check-in, which doesn't mention
| checking at the gate, but does mention why the airlines
| might be happy to do it (protect revenue by making sure
| passengers don't fly on other people's tickets... unless
| they share their name with the other person). This
| article [2] , also from 1996, is a little bit less
| precise about if people are denied at check-in or by gate
| agents.
|
| I think it's all quite hazy, because if you had no
| checked bags and it was a small airport, but you might
| just go to the gate and try to get your boarding pass
| there. That and 24 years have passed. :D
|
| [1] https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-
| xpm-1996-09-11-fi-42564-...
|
| [2] https://www.chicagotribune.com/1996/12/29/no-match-
| no-flight...
| jandrese wrote:
| Wouldn't that be noticed when the actual passenger tried to
| board and the system said they were already on board?
| 4ndrewl wrote:
| It'll be interesting to see where this is enforced. Most people
| won't actually see a member of Ryanair staff until the gate (at
| which point very often you're asked to scan your own barcode
| with a staff member present).
|
| I reckon you'll be able to print out a screenshot of the app
| and use it to check your bags in and get through security. They
| won't hold a flight up with checked bags at the gate - will
| cost them too much money.
| rixed wrote:
| It's not rare that some staff are checking that passengers
| have all needed documents as they head to departures. Looks
| like they could check app usage there. They could also easily
| check the app when bags are checked in (that's Ryanair staff
| doing this).
|
| In smaller airports (the ones Ryanair used to operate from)
| it's also sometimes their own barcode scanners before the
| gates that are dedicated to them.
|
| I believe they will be able to enforce this in many places.
| 4ndrewl wrote:
| Ryanair use scan-and-drop self-checkin of bags in many
| airports.
|
| It would also be curious to see who pays for removal of
| persons once they are airside - eg in the case the flyer
| with nothing to check in who goes past airport security,
| but before RyanAir staff meet them at the gate.
| kyriakos wrote:
| Unless it's a TOTP style code and changes
| 4ndrewl wrote:
| Unlikely - that would require changes for non-airline
| barcode users (eg Airport Security, Duty Free, etc)
| kyriakos wrote:
| Yeah you are right
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| >Why does it matter whether the boarding pass barcode is
| scanned from a printed paper vs a phone screen?
|
| They can't collect your data from a printed sheet.
| ndr wrote:
| Why force the app though?
|
| And is it true it won't allow screenshotting?
| subscribed wrote:
| Selling customer data for a premium, obviously.
| chris_va wrote:
| Out of curiosity, what happens when someone does not own a
| smartphone (or the battery is dead)? They just can't fly?
|
| And, if their server flaky, does that mean all boarding will
| stop? If the agents can check people in manually, it seems like
| the small fraction of people using a paper boarding pass can't be
| adding much extra cost. If they are saving cost by removing that
| flow, presumably they are giving up redundancy. Given the quality
| of airline software, I predict they will see a mass outage within
| a year.
| swiftcoder wrote:
| Keep in mind that Ryanair _already_ charges EUR50 to print you
| a replacement boarding pass at the counter if you can 't make
| the app work...
| dinkblam wrote:
| but you can print for free before heading to the airport
| philipwhiuk wrote:
| Not now.
| lxgr wrote:
| If you own a printer.
|
| I've once been in that situation with Ryanair: I booked
| through some reseller, not knowing that they'd make all
| bookings using some omnibus Ryanair account they would not
| share the password for (so mobile app use was out), and
| only emailed me the boarding pass PDF. But I didn't have a
| printer...
|
| The airport business center did have one, with a moderate
| 50 cent per page fee - except if that page contains a
| boarding pass, in which case it was 8 Euro.
| GTP wrote:
| Interesting price discrimination here.
| netsharc wrote:
| I would've photoshopped the barcode onto a Covid
| certificate and then ask to print it...
|
| Isn't barcode on the PDF good enough anyway, to be
| scanned by a machine (either biological or electronic)?
| Obviously it's Scamair, so they could've imposed dumb
| rules like "we need the physical paper"
| lxgr wrote:
| Yup, that's it. They explicitly weren't allowing scanning
| off of a screen, as far as I remember. (The code on the
| screen might be fraudulent, after all - can't do that on
| paper!)
| afandian wrote:
| > passengers will no longer be able to download and print a
| physical paper boarding pass
| InfinityByTen wrote:
| 10 years ago I had to pay ryanair that amount for I didn't
| print the boarding pass. How the times have changed.
| afavour wrote:
| This is simply the mindset of discount airlines. If your
| battery is dead when you arrive at check-in that's too bad for
| you. It's in the terms and conditions.
|
| If the server is flaky then boarding will be delayed for
| everyone and it'll be a whole crapshow but if their overall
| cost is lower than it would have been with printed boarding
| passes, fine.
| lxgr wrote:
| Usually they'll happily help you out with a "late boarding
| pass printing fee" on the order of a hundred EUR/$, though.
|
| If this really is a total refusal to do even that, I'd be
| slightly surprised, but I'm sure their business developers
| have done the analysis and it makes some sense to them.
| Muromec wrote:
| I'm surprised they can get away with it in the EU. T&C or
| not, you paid for a fare and they know you did
| lxgr wrote:
| I once flew from London on Ryanair when the airport's passenger
| Wi-Fi was completely down, and 4G was completely overloaded as
| a result as well.
|
| Things were indeed pretty chaotic. I can't remember if they did
| print paper boarding passes in the end.
|
| > it seems like the small fraction of people using a paper
| boarding pass can't be adding much extra cost
|
| You're looking at this from the wrong angle: This is Ryanair.
| Actual cost does not matter, only the opportunity to extract
| more revenue. Presumably app users are that much more valuable
| to Ryanair (as they can be upsold various things there, and
| potentially because it also acts as a filter for a generally
| less profitable customer segment).
| gruez wrote:
| The upsell opportunity isn't worth anywhere near $50 though.
| I suspect it acts as a price discrimination filter. You make
| people jump through hoops (ie. installing an app) to save
| some money, with the expectation that people who are willing
| to jump through hoops are more price sensitive, and would
| also be willing to switch to another airline.
| nagisa wrote:
| They already charge that and more if you have to check-in
| at the airport for any reason. And you cannot check-in
| online without making an account with them. Ryanair is
| grift squared.
|
| That said I never had problems boarding with a PDF
| displayed on the phone screen. Unfortunate that they're
| going away.
| jonas21 wrote:
| It's also a marketing channel for future flights. The app
| almost certainly asks for notification permissions, and most
| people will say yes -- they're useful for knowing if your
| flight is delayed or there's a gate change.
|
| Now they have a channel where they can let you know about
| deals, etc. I'm sure they've modeled exactly how much this is
| worth, and I'd be willing to bet it's a lot.
| baxtr wrote:
| Re notifications: I have seen important apps not working
| unless you allow notifications.
|
| This might be the case here as well.
|
| You wanna fly? Allow notifications!
| lxgr wrote:
| Isn't that against App Store guidelines? (Not that Apple
| could afford to kick out Ryanair, but I think they have
| other options, such as blocking updates until it's been
| remedied etc.)
| paganel wrote:
| Stupid question here, because I haven't flown with Ryanair in
| like almost 10 years, but I've recently flown with WizzAir
| and after checking-in online (the night before) it generated
| a .pdf boarding pass which I saved on my phone. I was then
| able to get onto the plane by presenting the QR code from
| said .pdf, i.e. while I was at the gate, no need for internet
| access. Does Ryanair do things differently?
| zoeysmithe wrote:
| These byzantine arguments and justifications and profit
| motivation and incentive tea readings are so ridiculous at a
| certain point, I'm surprised so many people wont even
| consider socializing airlines.
|
| What a cold comfort to a grandma struggling to use an upsell-
| focused dark patterns app when the wifi is poor at some
| airport to get home to see her grandkids stuck at some
| airport to say, "Well, this maximized shareholder revenue."
|
| I feel like I'm in the last stages of 'anything goes'
| capitalism. The ridiculousness here has hit such levels,
| especially in the USA, that there must be pushback sooner
| than later. I dunno how the Irish feel about this considering
| this is their airline (HQ at least), or their experiences,
| but on this side of the pond, this has all has reached new
| levels of absurdity that would make even Kafka blush.
| lrvick wrote:
| Frontier already expects digital boarding passes. I do not own
| a phone, so they charged me a $25 fee to print one at customer
| service. Except they also do not accept cash, so I had to go
| buy a gift card with cash from a vending machine for another $5
| fee.
|
| For $30 I could buy an entire discount printer and print one
| myself.
| schmookeeg wrote:
| Thank you for FAXing this comment in :)
| MissTake wrote:
| Or just using a laptop or a desktop pc...
| selimthegrim wrote:
| You can print Frontier boarding passes. They just make
| the link very hard to find.
| lukan wrote:
| You pay 50 EUR.
| jandrese wrote:
| For what it is worth, at least on iPhone you can still use the
| bus/train pass feature in Wallet even when the battery is dead.
|
| But it has always been the Ryanair brand to ask the consumer
| "how much bullshit are you willing to put up with to save a
| buck?"
| embedding-shape wrote:
| > For what it is worth, at least on iPhone you can still use
| the bus/train pass feature in Wallet even when the battery is
| dead.
|
| Doesn't seem like it'll help in this case, seems Ryanair is
| forcing the usage to be via their app instead of anything
| else.
| jandrese wrote:
| It depends on the details. Last time I flew I used the
| airline's app to get the ticket which were then immediately
| loaded into wallet and read via NFC at the gate.
|
| But this is Ryanair so it's probably going to do some
| stupid QR thing that will be super touchy and be a struggle
| to work on at least half of the devices. Bonus points if
| the app refuses to start if it can't make a live internet
| connection back to some cursed cloud service so the people
| waiting in line who accidentally let their phone go to
| sleep find they can't get it to show the ticket in the dead
| zone at the gate.
| GTP wrote:
| For what it's worth, I flew multiple times using the
| boarding pass from their app without any problem.
| stavros wrote:
| You need the app to download the pass (AFAIK) but it goes
| into your Google/Apple wallet after that. I have the app
| disabled (so it can't run in the background, as much as
| possible), and I only use it to get the pass.
|
| I wish they'd just let me download a pkpass file, but what
| can you do.
| gruez wrote:
| >For what it is worth, at least on iPhone you can still use
| the bus/train pass feature in Wallet even when the battery is
| dead.
|
| AFAIK that only works for NFC passes? For passes that are
| just qr/bar codes I can't imagine how that'd work if the
| battery is actually dead. The "use bus passes when battery is
| dead" feature only works because there's dedicated low power
| circuitry to power the NFC hardware, which obviously doesn't
| exist for the display.
| PaulRobinson wrote:
| > Out of curiosity, what happens when someone does not own a
| smartphone (or the battery is dead)? They just can't fly?
|
| Yup, based on this announcement, and previous policy calls
| they've made, that person won't be able to fly. End of. They
| lose their seat, kthxbye!
|
| Ryanair has made its way in the budget market (arguably
| inventing the budget market to some extent), by employing
| money-making practices of dubious need from charging people to
| use toilets on-board, to flying with so little fuel that they
| regularly call fuel emergencies on approach.
|
| Their bet - that the market seems to support - is that people
| will put up with almost anything if it means a cheaper ticket.
|
| They're even expecting to get clearance from authorities to get
| rid of proper seating and move to "standing seats" so they can
| get more people onboard, their theory being you'll stand for 3
| hours on a plane if it means your ticket is x% cheaper.
|
| I refuse to fly with them on principle - they're a terrible
| airline owned by a terrible person, run in a terrible way. It's
| only a matter of time before people realise just how dangerous
| they are as an operation. I hope it's just a data security
| issue they run into and people run away from the app scared,
| and not the increasingly inevitable hull loss that many have
| been predicting for years.
|
| This is just another reason not to fly with them, for me.
| gruez wrote:
| >to flying with so little fuel that they regularly call fuel
| emergencies on approach.
|
| If you're talking about the recent incident, I thought that
| was because they tried landing several times at different
| airports? Is there any evidence that they routinely fly with
| less fuel buffer than other airlines?
| throwaway290 wrote:
| a lot of hearsay saying they pack less fuel than other
| airlines (but not below minimum required limit) in
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45539943
| rkomorn wrote:
| > (but not below minimum required limit)
|
| I hate just about everything I know about Ryanair but if
| they're not below required limits, then I'd say they're
| not the problem and the point is moot.
| PaulRobinson wrote:
| Sure, I first heard about this years ago when Channel 4 (a
| UK broadcaster) ran a program about pilots stating they
| were concerned about the policy. There had been outrage
| within the aviation industry after three fuel emergencies
| in one day at one airport. [0] Ryanair sued [1], and lost:
| Channel 4 had engaged in fair journalism, it turns out.
|
| Seems they're still at it, hence the recent incident.
|
| [0] https://www.eurocockpit.eu/news/fuelling-debate-safety-
| vs-pr... [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23686678
| sodality2 wrote:
| All three flights were diverted due to weather, and none
| of them fell below the legally required amount of fuel.
| One has to wonder if it's really reasonable to criticize
| them in this instance if a single weather event affected
| them all.
| sebastiennight wrote:
| > charging people to use toilets on-board
|
| AFAIK this has never happened.
|
| This is a PR stunt that is regularly used (like the idea of
| standing-room-only tickets) to generate a new round of press
| for the company and highlight how cost-efficient and ruthless
| they are, which aligns with their branding and keeps the
| story alive.
|
| I understand the sentiment but as sibling comment points out,
| you're very light in the way of stating facts to back up
| these claims.
| notreallyauser wrote:
| There's an interview with the CEO where he explains
| (claims) the idea of that policy is to reduce demand so
| they can leave out a couple of toilets and put in / sell
| more seats -- it's not about the charge for the toilet per
| se.
| sebastiennight wrote:
| > There's an interview with the CEO
|
| May I point out that your counter-argument to "this is a
| PR stunt" is "no no, the CEO himself floated this idea
| publicly and got interviewed in the press to talk about
| it".
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| I mean it isn't surprising people put up such abuse when I
| find that usually these discount airlines are half the ticket
| price of a major carrier for the same sort of flight. I've
| gotten remarkably good at efficiently packing my allotted
| small personal item bag.
| potato3732842 wrote:
| The whole business model of discount airlines is to cater to
| the fat part of the bell curve and not the long tails. If you
| require special accommodation at any point in the process don't
| fly via a super budget value airline. Even if they do support
| your use case, they're not in the business of making it easy
| and they'll hit you with a "fuck you" fee to make it worth
| their while.
| RobotToaster wrote:
| > If you require special accommodation at any point in the
| process don't fly via a super budget value airline
|
| That sounds pretty illegal if they aren't making
| accommodations for disabilities.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| Discount airlines charge you if you so much as talk to a
| gate agent. I think their lawyers have found ironclad
| routings around something like that.
| zdragnar wrote:
| They'll make accommodations, but those will be very budget
| accommodations and not comfy, just like everything else
| about them.
|
| Hence why you're better off going with something else. In
| fact, you're almost always better off going with something
| else. I'm not a giant, but at 6'4" (1.93 meters) I've found
| that I absolutely detest most shared transit. Either my
| legs are too long or shoulders too broad, and even non-
| budget airlines can be unpleasant to fly in.
| jplrssn wrote:
| The one advantage Ryanair has over non-budget airlines is
| that none of their seats recline.
| walletdrainer wrote:
| It's true, in my experience at 6'7" it is much nicer to
| fly private. Shared transport offers a much inferior
| experience except on long haul flights where you have
| actual first class, but even then you need to be careful
| while booking to not accidentally end up on some silly
| plane.
| kube-system wrote:
| Yeah, disability accommodation laws are pretty weak, even
| in the countries with the strongest protections.
| "reasonable" accommodations often equate to situations
| that still don't actually provide practical
| accommodations for people.
| hansvm wrote:
| I'm not sure I understand. It sounds like you're saying
| you don't like the leg room being so cramped that beyond
| a certain height you're physically required to angle your
| knees into a neighboring seat's space. That's surely part
| of the charm though?
| zdragnar wrote:
| It's bad enough when I have to fight for elbow room with
| the people next to me. It's a whole 'nother experience to
| fight for the elbow room of the people in front of me to
| have a place to put my knees.
| Spivak wrote:
| I had the misfortune of acquiring a temporary disability
| while I was overseas and it kind of opened my eyes to how
| shitty the west treats the disabled. While I was in
| eastern airports the staff were tripping over themselves
| to accommodate me. I was assigned at least one person
| whose entire job was to stay with me and take me where I
| needed to go. They handled my bags, security, even got me
| food and drinks when I got hungry. It was beyond
| respectful. But as soon as I got to the western leg of
| the journey home I became a burden. I basically just got
| a wheelchair and my partner had to push me around while
| juggling our luggage.
|
| It's crazy to see real life proof that it doesn't have to
| be this way.
| Der_Einzige wrote:
| The right wing rise world wide will gut disability
| accommodations.
| kakacik wrote:
| We talk about ryanair, the scummiest of the bottom scum of
| airlines, they wanted to charge everybody 2 euros to use toilet
| (or did it pass? I can't imagine in EU, I would piss on their
| cabinets since I don't carry coins around).
|
| I always print boarding passes, traveled enough to see tons of
| people struggling with their phones, with their pdf viewers or
| airline apps, to block everybody else to know what good manners
| and empathy to others (or simply less stressful travel) are. I
| wish I could save that atto fraction of a planet by not
| printing but it can't be like that with current ways of things.
|
| Luckily ryanair is mostly absent from our airport (Geneva), its
| Easyjet all the way, way more than even Swiss airlines which
| chickened out on numerous levels on every swiss airport apart
| from Zurich. They are low cost with their share of issues but
| man, compared to ryanair they are absolute top versus rotten
| vomit, to keep things polite but precise.
| Theodores wrote:
| You would also be surprised at how 'tech savvy' non-tech people
| are in the UK. It is quite common for non-tech people to
| screenshot train ticket QR codes just in case they have no
| signal at the station yet none of the common train booking apps
| suggest this.
|
| Rest assured, Ryanair knows their passengers very well. They
| know that every single one of their passengers knows how to
| babysit a smartphone so the battery doesn't die on their
| flight. Let's be honest, sudden unexpected incontinence is more
| likely than a Ryanair passenger fluffing up their pocket device
| for doom-scrolling.
| HiPhish wrote:
| > Out of curiosity, what happens when someone does not own a
| smartphone (or the battery is dead)?
|
| Or you drop your phone. Or it gets stolen. Or for whatever
| reason the software fails. Electronic devices are so flimsy,
| even if you want to use an app it's worth having paper as a
| backup option. It's the same reason why I always carry cash and
| a card on me (and I pay in cash as much as possible anyway).
| kjs3 wrote:
| My wife used to laugh at me that I almost always print out a
| boarding pass. Until the day her phone died at the gate.
| chickensong wrote:
| Not to mention that the hard copy always scans flawlessly
| at the gate. Phone scans, not so much.
|
| Not only does the phone scan not work well, but people
| often aren't prepared and so the boarding line stalls while
| people unlock their phone and retrieve the e-ticket.
| majorchord wrote:
| > If you have already checked-in online and your smartphone
| or tablet dies, you will receive a free of charge boarding
| pass at the airport.
|
| > If passengers don't have a smartphone or tablet, as long as
| they have already checked-in online before arriving at the
| airport, they will receive a free of charge boarding pass at
| the airport.
|
| https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-
| pa...
| dynm wrote:
| Contrary to what many replies are telling you, the link clearly
| states that if you don't own a smartphone, you can check in
| online and then obtain a boarding pass for free at the airport.
|
| (Not sure how easy that will be or if they actually verify that
| you don't own a smartphone, etc.)
| nocoiner wrote:
| I'm sorry, I am not seeing that at all at the link. I am
| surely missing something, but can you cut/paste what you are
| seeing on this point?
| jenadine wrote:
| The linked article doesn't have that info. But it is in
| their FAQ
|
| https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-
| pa...
|
| > as long as they have already checked-in online before
| arriving at the airport, they will receive a free of charge
| boarding pass at the airport.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Technically, the vast majority of users don't own their
| device. They are leasing it through their carrier. Then
| because it is HN, once the device is paid off, the user still
| doesn't own it as they cannot use it as they see fit and
| still must use it as the manufacturer sees fit. So this "own"
| word is potential for interpretation
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| >Contrary to what many replies are telling you, the link
| clearly states that if you don't own a smartphone, you can
| check in online and then obtain a boarding pass for free at
| the airport.
|
| The press release says absolutely nothing of the sort.
| MaoSYJ wrote:
| Passport/EU-ID to check you already have a ticket should be the
| standard. Everyone saves time and money this way BUT now they
| can earn more money at the gate.
| ninalanyon wrote:
| In Norway on Norwegian carriers all you need for internal
| travel is the credit card you booked the ticket with.
| shellfishgene wrote:
| No ID? So anyone with the card can use the ticket?
| hleszek wrote:
| It is said on their website that if you lose your phone or it
| dies, you can get a free boarding pass at the airport.
|
| Source: https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-
| boarding-pa...
| jakub_g wrote:
| Most of the answers are here:
|
| https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-pa...
|
| Re: the "their server is flaky" (I believe you mean at the
| gate) case, I think any airline might be then struggling with
| boarding passengers, whether they have paper boarding cards or
| not.
| hansvm wrote:
| For more fun, Frontier's app doesn't even run on my phone. Step
| 1 to fly with them is to go buy a phone from the last 2-3 years
| (can probably get away with something a little older if iOS).
| Beijinger wrote:
| No problem. Normally they can print a ticket for you. 50
| bucks...
| reconnecting wrote:
| Traveling seems to be essential, but having the App Store,
| iPhone, or Android definitely are not.
|
| What happens if your phone is stolen, broken, discharged?
| Finally, I fly several times a month with different companies,
| does that mean I should have a circus of apps on my phone?
|
| I hope someone will regulate this matter.
| nashashmi wrote:
| Typically other companies have used emails and websites to
| download passes. Maybe the same can happen here.
| reconnecting wrote:
| It's clearly explained in Ryanair's press release that this
| is not the case and the application is mandatory.
| philipwhiuk wrote:
| > What happens if your phone is stolen, broken, discharged?
|
| Pay Ryanair 50 bucks for a printed boarding pass at the
| counter.
| reconnecting wrote:
| Thanks, but I'm fine with printing my own boarding pass at
| home for free.
|
| From my perspective, even a paid toilet (1) would be a better
| offering than this.
|
| 1. https://abcnews.go.com/Travel/Green/paying-pee-airlines-
| crit...
| ryandrake wrote:
| More broadly, we need regulation where companies cannot make
| "ownership of the newest smartphone" a requirement to do
| business with them. I'm lucky to be in the USA where we still
| haven't smartphone-ized everything yet, but every year I see it
| creeping in. Every year, a new bank requires a smartphone to
| create a passkey or whatever. Every year, a restaurant I like
| moves over to QR code menus. Every year, a doctor decides to
| move over to smartphone-based payments only. And of course, all
| of the crappy app developers insist that 1. I use a very recent
| phone and 2. I run the latest OS, or I'm shut out.
|
| I have no problem with enabling smartphone-based payments and
| passes for people who like them, but companies should not be
| allowed to block out (or charge extra to) others who prefer not
| to tether themselves to a phone.
| reconnecting wrote:
| Here in some European countries, like France, having a
| smartphone out in a restaurant is a sign of bad etiquette.
| It's not crucial, but from some people's perspective it might
| seem out of place. However, some restaurants tried QR code
| menus due to COVID-19, but most of them have since stopped
| using them.
|
| I fully agree that having the latest version of a phone/OS
| should not be treated as a requirement for access to
| services, especially essential ones.
| fauigerzigerk wrote:
| _> More broadly, we need regulation where companies cannot
| make "ownership of the newest smartphone" a requirement to do
| business with them._
|
| I'm not keen on mobile apps in general, but I don't see a
| need for regulation here. Companies want customers. It's not
| in their interest to needlessly harass people with pointless
| technology requirements that drive people to competitors. No
| company has ever required "the newest smartphone" for
| everyday tasks.
|
| I don't support a general right to refuse adoption of any and
| all new technologies. What I do support is a mandate to use
| open technologies wherever possible for infrastructure that
| no one can reasonably avoid. What we can't allow is that
| people who lose some oligopolist account can no longer live a
| normal life.
| reconnecting wrote:
| >Companies want customers.
|
| Indeed, and that's why perhaps some internal marketing
| analytics show that people with installed apps often buy
| tickets from the same airline company. Then, we discover
| how airline companies decide to push their mobile phone
| application adoption through mandatory tickets.
|
| Such decisions are always about sales, and never about
| security or customer care.
| fauigerzigerk wrote:
| You're probably right. I just think it's not worth piling
| the equivalent of technical debt on our legal system just
| to curb small annoyances. Budget airlines are an
| incredibly rich source of small annoyances.
| ryandrake wrote:
| "Companies want customers" is often not enough of a market
| force to result in behavior that is inclusive of everyone,
| which is why, for example, we need things like the
| Americans with Disabilities Act, which mandates that
| companies' services are accessible to all, and other laws
| which require full and equal accommodations. We could
| almost argue that making things "[new] smartphone only"
| might violate the ADA. I'd like to see such a lawsuit.
| fauigerzigerk wrote:
| I agree that we sometimes need regulation to guarantee
| access for everyone.
|
| But regulations need to be kept up-to-date and they need
| to be consistently enforced. That's a lot of work. Having
| too many of them only helps lawyers and people who can
| afford them.
|
| Some random company requiring a smartphone for access to
| some service doesn't strike me as exclusionary enough to
| justify burdening the system with more regulation.
| leptons wrote:
| >. And of course, all of the crappy app developers insist
| that 1. I use a very recent phone and 2. I run the latest OS,
| or I'm shut out.
|
| Signal did this when my wife's Macbook could no longer be
| updated to the latest Apple OS version. Signal just stopped
| working for her completely _on her laptop_. She couldn 't
| install the latest version of Signal due to her not being on
| the latest OS, and Signal won't allow the old version to work
| once it's outdated. We had to buy her a whole new laptop (not
| Apple this time) to get her back on Signal (something she
| relies on).
|
| Yes, I know about the hacky workarounds to get the latest OS
| working on a Macbook, but fuck that noise.
| reconnecting wrote:
| I was not an active Signal user, but the same thing happens
| with Signal on my macOS Catalina, which I also don't want
| to update.
|
| Luckily, email is always with me, despite OS version and
| platform.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Third party developers dropping support for OS versions
| that are, frankly, not even very old, is a scourge in
| software today.
|
| I can _maybe_ understand sunsetting support if the OS
| made a huge backwards-incompatible step change, but macOS
| and iOS updates don 't tend to be that kind. The
| differences (for developers) between Catalina and Mojave
| are minuscule. Retaining support for Mojave should be
| close to zero effort on the part of the developer. There
| should be no difference in maintenance burden between
| building an application that runs on Mojave and Catalina,
| and building an application that runs only on Catalina+.
| blamazon wrote:
| Use a different airline, the free market will take care of the
| rest!
| lrvick wrote:
| Not always a choice unless you want to spend the night at an
| airport and miss the thing you are flying in for.
| rixed wrote:
| Or use a different phone than apple's or google's, one that
| protect your privacy against airline companies stealing and
| resselling your data. The free market will... hem...
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| And pay more than what you'd pay for ryanairs extortionate
| ticket printing service
| hexbin010 wrote:
| Haha all of them end up getting dragged down to Ryanair's
| level
|
| Almost all short haul airlines in Europe more-or-less
| resemble the Ryanair model now
| afavour wrote:
| Traveling by plane, and specifically by budget airline, isn't
| essential. I'm not in favor of Ryanair's move here but it's
| also a free market, they can add restrictions and the market
| will react to it.
| reconnecting wrote:
| I'm fine with restrictions if they are reasonable/justified.
| I don't have an app store and I'm not planning to use one,
| and it's unclear to me why I'm unable to download and print a
| ticket when they can do the same for EUR50.
|
| From a personal computer there are zero requirements, I don't
| need to have a special OS, or application, or anything. On
| the mobile application side, I must have one of two
| authorized app stores, an account there, and perhaps a
| specific OS version. This is something that I find unfair in
| this business practice.
| hexbin010 wrote:
| What do we do if/when all other airlines copy Ryanair
| (again)?
| kyriakos wrote:
| If a government offers official apps for those platforms and
| banks allow you to use some services for free via app but
| charge a fee if you show up in person I think airlines can get
| away with it too
| jimbokun wrote:
| You can check in online before leaving for the airport in that
| case.
| hollowturtle wrote:
| Do the checkin online and add the boarding pass to your
| ios/android wallet, as simple as that. Just did the last
| weekend with ryanair. Btw the faq specify that as long as you
| do the checkin online, if you lose your device or it dies a
| boarding pass will be printed for you for free
| phyzome wrote:
| Wow, to hell with that. I'm not installing an airline app, even
| if I _had_ a smartphone.
| aquir wrote:
| Can I download the app, add the boarding pass to Apple Wallet and
| remove/disable the app? Or just take a screenshot of the boarding
| pass and then uninstall it?
| PaulRobinson wrote:
| Likely dynamic generated QR codes. These are becoming more and
| more common place.
| subscribed wrote:
| Come on, it's not meant to be user-friendly, anyone who buys
| that deserves to buy a bridge.
| swiftcoder wrote:
| Huh. I feel like one of Ryanair's major profit centres in the
| past has been that EUR50 fee they charge to print your boarding
| pass at the counter when the app doesn't work...
| philipwhiuk wrote:
| Sure.
|
| You'll no longer be able to print a boarding pass but they
| will.
| everdrive wrote:
| A grim view of things to come. More companies will do this, and
| eventually your defacto tracking device (ie, your smart phone)
| will become your government-mandated tracking device. I'd like to
| stop traveling by air altogether. Sadly, I need to travel for
| work this December.
| Aurornis wrote:
| Boarding an airplane, which requires that someone check your
| ID, is one of the most reliable tracking indicators available
| to show that a person was in a specific place at a specific
| time.
|
| Nabbing people at airports is a common strategy for this
| reason.
|
| Putting the boarding pass on a phone doesn't make it easier for
| the government to know that you're flying.
| everdrive wrote:
| I just mean in general. If airplane companies normalize using
| an app then other companies may as well. Do you need a
| smartphone to pump gas? Or to use government services? How
| about to buy groceries? That sort of slippery slope is what I
| would be afraid of.
| matwood wrote:
| > If airplane companies normalize using an app then other
| companies may as well.
|
| I fly a lot and can't remember the last time I had a paper
| boarding pass. When I board the vast majority of people
| also use their phones, so normalization has already
| happened with air travel.
| rurp wrote:
| You think this mandated budget airline app is only going to
| track a gate check-in and nothing else? My guess is that it
| will collect an absurd amount of extra data and waste endless
| amounts of time with up-sells and other dark patterns.
| IlikeKitties wrote:
| If you live in the EU, the euID app that's coming in the next
| few years will use the google play integrity API. It's all but
| inevitable.
| Zambyte wrote:
| > Sadly, I need to travel for work this December.
|
| Tell your employer you need a phone.
| thomond wrote:
| I'm a bit shocked the EU allowed them away with this.
| colinbartlett wrote:
| How can this possibly be legal? If it truly is, the EU needs to
| get on it immediately.
| IlikeKitties wrote:
| Than you haven't been watching the EU enough. They are
| currently working on MULTIPLE different omnibus laws that will
| make owning an Google or Apple Approved Phone, running Google
| or Apple Approved Firmware and using the Google or Apple App
| store de-facto mandatory for living in the EU.
|
| You vill download ze app and you vill accept the TOS.
|
| *Downvote me all you want here's the proof:*
| https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technic...
| teekert wrote:
| What you are presenting is all opt-in.
| mrbadguy wrote:
| For now
| hexbin010 wrote:
| It always begins that way to squash criticism.
| teekert wrote:
| I'm convinced they won't, they are just slow to react.
| physicsguy wrote:
| The whole point of Ryanair has always been low cost flights by
| shoving passengers in and stick to the rules to make everything
| faster and having less staff. People want the PS30 flight but
| don't want to stick to the conditions, ultimately. But that is
| the trade off you make.
| zb3 wrote:
| Requiring a particular app for something that could be achieved
| by scanning a code (displayed on a screen) is bullshit.
|
| And let me guess - then they'll use Play Integrity API so that
| you cannot fly if you're not using Google certified device with
| preinstalled privileged spyware (or lease an Apple device you
| don't own)?
| thomascountz wrote:
| Phone's dead/dropped under a bus tire/stolen at security/got bit-
| flipped by a cosmic ray, now what?
|
| Nearly 80% of 207M passengers already adopted it means 41M
| passengers have not.
|
| I apologize in advance for being overly dramatic. I just flew
| with a digital boarding pass and my phone nearly died while
| waiting at the outlet-less gate. I'm sure I could have gotten
| assistance, but it was stressful.
| rixed wrote:
| Empty battery is not unlikely in airports that make it extra-
| hard to recharge a phone (Looking at you, BER). Long ago it was
| possible to unplug a vending machine as a last resort, but
| these days all electrical sockets are concealed, as a measure
| to prevent overnight stays in airports I believe.
| jenadine wrote:
| If you lose your phone or if it's out of battery, you'll get a
| free boarding pass at the airport as long as you checked in
| online before getting to the airport.
|
| If you didn't check in before, you'll have to pay a 50EUR fee.
| (Same as before)
|
| Source: https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-
| boarding-pa...
| tmilard wrote:
| Let's be honnest : more and more service will move to "only
| Smarphone" way. For economic reason (less process so less
| expences).
|
| So what.
| codegeek wrote:
| I think requiring app is an overreach. I hate installing apps. If
| you want to save money and not do paper, I would just do this:
|
| - Provide a discount/credit for using electronic digital boarding
| pass (PDF file, no apps). If someone is not able to use the PDF
| etc (either their own printout or on their phone) and require a
| paper pass at the airport for any reason, their discount/credit
| goes away. Simple.
| globular-toast wrote:
| > faster
|
| Scanning a QR code from a screen is faster than from a piece of
| paper? How does that work?
|
| > smarter
|
| A smart person would carry both a digital and paper copy of their
| travel documents.
|
| > greener
|
| Ah, yes, all it takes to make flying "green" is eliminating a
| single sheet of A4 paper per passenger.
| rixed wrote:
| > Ah, yes, all it takes to make flying "green" is eliminating a
| single sheet of A4 paper per passenger.
|
| That's 80% filled with ads...
| johnjames87 wrote:
| Remember: you can always pick a different airline.
| teekert wrote:
| Yes, but also, collectively, democratically, via are laws, we
| can set where a race to the bottom ends.
| subscribed wrote:
| No, I can't. They're the only airline serving the city I have
| to visit a few times a year. Next two airports are 250 and 350
| km away.
|
| Not really feasible.
| hexbin010 wrote:
| Until all other short-haul airlines copy them
|
| They already copied many, many other aspects of the low-cost
| business model, so I'm sure this will follow
| colinbartlett wrote:
| Will the app requirement be disclosed at purchase everywhere? IE:
| If I am buying on a third-party online travel agent, will the
| checkout process state that in order to board the flight at the
| cost quoted, that I will need to have a smartphone with the app
| installed?
| Freak_NL wrote:
| There does not appear to be an app requirement after all. You
| _are_ required to check-in online before heading to the airport
| though.
|
| See: https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-
| pa...
| OptionOfT wrote:
| But why? What is wrong with PDFs? Either printed or digitally?
|
| Want to make it a little bit more fancy? Apple Wallet and Google
| Wallet both support a more fancy setup.
|
| Technologically speaking banning the other things is only driven
| by hoping that people will forget something and they can charge
| extra.
|
| What's next? They 'accidentally' kill the app during boarding.
| And they can up charge you.
| IlikeKitties wrote:
| A printed PDF doesn't sell your data for profit. An App does.
| 9cb14c1ec0 wrote:
| ^ This, and nothing else. There is a dark, evil underbelly to
| the data broker ecosystem that is largely powered by random
| apps people install on their phones.
| rixed wrote:
| Ryanair basically invented most of the dark patterns that are now
| prevalent in all travel websites. Back then, the experience was
| so awful that it was comical (and even inspired a song[0]).
| Therefore I'm not surprised that they are the first to mandate
| you install their app on your phone. All other companies that
| have dreamed of this will be quick to follow suit.
|
| Notice the euphemism of calling this "going digital". Everybody
| is already digital, using a pdf reader on their phone at the
| terminal, despite some companies discouraging this practice.
| That's not digital enough, is it?
|
| [0]: https://youtu.be/Id-zzOGnN6A?t=102
| Freak_NL wrote:
| This announcement is a load of bull. See this page about the new
| system:
|
| https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-boarding-pa...
|
| > But what if, and what if, and what if?
|
| > If you have already checked-in online and your smartphone or
| tablet dies / is lost, you will receive a free of charge boarding
| pass at the airport.
|
| > If passengers don't have a smartphone or tablet, as long as
| they have already checked-in online before arriving at the
| airport, they will receive a free of charge boarding pass at the
| airport.
| lxgr wrote:
| Wow, this might just be an improvement on the status quo (app
| optional, but high boarding pass printing fee if it's not
| used).
|
| I don't think this policy will hold up in the face of Ryanair
| ticket resellers though, since it seems to be pretty clearly
| designed to make their life harder once again, but free
| replacement printing would offer them a way out.
| jimbokun wrote:
| It's hilarious how many HN commenters claimed these things
| weren't true without bothering to check.
| jakub_g wrote:
| > "If X or Y or Z... you will receive a free of charge boarding
| pass at the airport"
|
| After queueing for 1.5h in a single queue for the entire
| flight, served by one service crew person.
| hexbin010 wrote:
| And some Swissair agent denying knowledge about this new
| policy
| blululu wrote:
| Ironic that RyanAir's press release website has a print button as
| if anyone prints websites. There are a lot of advantages to paper
| and printers. As a general policy policy point I don't love this
| direction. But also it's RyanAir. This is by far the smallest
| customer rights violation that they have and will continue to
| commit. And at this point everyone should know that a 25 quid
| flight from Manchester to Madrid on RyanAir has a catch. Just be
| glad your luggage wasn't jettisoned over the channel to save
| weight.
| bluebarbet wrote:
| A "boarding pass" was always a redundant document anyway. As are
| "tickets" whenever ID is required for the service in question.
| The ID has a number on it, in the system _that 's_ the ticket. In
| police states like China, tickets are a thing of the past.
|
| That flying - an entirely unsustainable mode of transport - is
| now widely viewed as a commoditized consumer good is already a
| form of ethical collapse IMO. Now this. We need regulation. But
| for that, people need choose it, to _vote for_ it.
| Animats wrote:
| Can you display the boarding pass in a web browser? Allowing a
| RyanAir app on your phone seems high-risk.
| qazxcvbnmlp wrote:
| so many opportunities for shenanigans!
|
| 'watch this ad before we give you your boarding pass'
|
| 'no boarding pass for you until your group is called'
|
| 'ah ha! you have an iPhone 17 pro max instead of a
| $BUDGET_ANDROID, cool your seat fees will be 20% higher'
|
| 'oh you got your boarding pass on this device, but need it on a
| different device now? cool lets do a device transfer fee'
| rwmj wrote:
| Ryanair are probably reading this thread looking for ideas.
| HiPhish wrote:
| > but will instead need to use the digital boarding pass
| generated in their "myRyanair" app during check-in to board their
| Ryanair flight.
|
| And of course it's only possible using a specific proprietary
| app. You'd think a penny-pinching company would want to use open
| standard to save money instead of develop a custom app, right?
| I'm 100% sure this is done intentionally to scoop up as much
| personal data from their customers.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| Yes. Scooping up user data is just another revenue stream. That
| is the point.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Particularly for airlines. For years actually flying
| passengers hasn't been profitable, it's all about side income
| that makes a profit [1].
|
| [1] https://www.investopedia.com/the-four-biggest-us-
| airlines-al...
| canucker2016 wrote:
| There's a YouTube video that talks about how valuable the
| major US airlines reward program is. The market cap of each
| airline is less than the value of each airline's reward
| program at the time the video was made.
|
| I recall Apple was valued in a similar manner back in the
| late 1990s. Their market cap was barely more than cash on
| hand. Talk about missed investing opportunities...
|
| Not that I'm saying airlines are the next AAPL.
|
| edit - here's the video - "How Airlines Quietly Became
| Banks" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggUduBmvQ_4
| swyx wrote:
| i cant believe i'm about to defend Ryanair but just fwiw it
| seems quite normal to do a custom app specifically for tickets,
| for anticheat purposes + the nicety of putting your ticket in
| Apple Wallet is nice enough that i willingly do it for the
| airlines i fly.
|
| ok that wasnt really defending Ryanair but just being
| argumentative for the sake of fairness. obviously Ryanair
| doesn't have Ticketmaster level tech.
| pphysch wrote:
| Why do you need to download and run an app to get your ticket
| into your phone's Wallet?
| serial_dev wrote:
| You can usually get the ticket printed at the desk, print it
| at home, have a PDF on any device like a Kindle, take a
| screenshot of the QR code, add to your wallet on your phone
| even without proprietary apps, etc...
|
| I download the airline's apps, but I hate relying exclusively
| on these potentially unreliable apps, or unreliable phones so
| I always get the ticket in other formats, too: always have an
| analog version, and some form of digital version on at least
| two devices.
|
| I don't travel often, but when I do, missing a flight would
| be expensive or annoying, so it's a reasonable trade off for
| me, ymmv. With that said, I also don't fly Ryanair, so they
| can do whatever they want.
| swyx wrote:
| btw ryanair charges you like $75 for printing at the desk
| haha
| gruturo wrote:
| It absolutely doesn't take an app to issue a boarding pass
| which will appear in your Apple Wallet. It's literally a zip
| (with extension .pkpass) containing a master JSON, a few
| assets like logos and a digital signature. There are
| tutorials for making your own.
|
| Many airlines let you download one once you check in on their
| website, or email you one, or embed a download link in an
| SMS, just to name 3 alternatives.
| robocat wrote:
| Recent experience with United: the SMS option was deeply
| broken (as in couldn't actually get one boarding pass from
| the link in SMS). Their kiosks were crap too (as in
| attendant tries to tell me I'm doing it wrong, then they
| can't do it, and they finally have to check me in on their
| own terminal).
|
| The overall UX/UI of airlines is terribly broken.
| john01dav wrote:
| Why does a boarding pass need a rootkit? ("anticheat" is
| usually code for root kits, and at least it has some positive
| trade off for users in the video game case)
|
| They can just check the scanned pass against their own
| database to verify authenticity. They could also
| cryptographically sign it.
| chickensong wrote:
| It may be "quite normal" to you, but that doesn't mean it's
| good. Stockholm syndrome comes to mind here.
|
| Until technology gives us better controls, we must assume
| that every app, particularly those from large profit-driven
| corporations, is hostile.
| slumberlust wrote:
| No. I'm app fatigued and over it. Let's put some power back
| into he hands of consumers for once.
| nutjob2 wrote:
| Its so they can collect a fee of 50 euros or pounds off you
| when your phone battery is flat or the app otherwise doesn't
| work.
| hleszek wrote:
| It is said on their website that if you lose your phone or it
| dies, you can get a free boarding pass at the airport.
|
| Source: https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/lp/explore/digital-
| boarding-pa...
| ranger_danger wrote:
| This should be at the top of this thread... it practically
| makes the whole thing a nothingburger.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| It moves the app one notch back from mandatory, but
| that's still enough to be a real problem. That method is
| going to have very low capacity and if you lie about your
| phone being dead or elsewhere that might screw you over.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| I wonder if its like frontier where they hide the standardized
| mobile boarding pass behind a dark pattern?
| addandsubtract wrote:
| So far, you can just download the boarding pass to
| apple/google wallet after checking in. Only dark patterns are
| in their booking process.
| dalmo3 wrote:
| So instead of one proprietary app now you need two?
|
| What's darker than dark?
| addandsubtract wrote:
| You can also take a screenshot of your ticket. The passes
| are just for convenience.
| ranger_danger wrote:
| Ryanair app blocks screenshots
| benoau wrote:
| Vantadark patterns.
| piperswe wrote:
| There are plenty of open-source apps that can store &
| show .pkpass files, though I don't know if they're
| compatible with Frontier's passes
| lazide wrote:
| Ryanair _is_ the dark pattern. Like damn.
| g-mork wrote:
| They move 200 million passengers a year. The app is full of
| upsell. Please explain how your open standard accomplishes
| their goals
| Retric wrote:
| You can upsell just fine through a website.
| pmontra wrote:
| Their goal is not my goal. My goal is to fly to a
| destination. A paper ticket has always been enough for that.
| And if they want to upsell a web page can be full of
| upselling too. But I don't want upsells, only a flight and
| air companies are commodities. Imagine if I had to install an
| app for every chain of gas pumps around my country and the
| nearby ones.
| throw20251110 wrote:
| Imagine you drive an EV and that's exactly what you have to
| do.
| ranger_danger wrote:
| I think with these kinds of ideological issues, all one can
| do is vote with their wallet. Nobody is forcing you to fly
| Ryanair, there are other choices, and if you don't like
| their practices, don't fly with them. If enough people do
| it, then they might change their ways, but if their 80%
| number is accurate, you're probably just stuck not flying
| with them anymore and nobody else is going to care but you,
| unfortunately.
|
| Not trying to be rude at all... you said their goal is not
| yours, so that's why you choose not to do business with
| them. Every business can't please everyone at the same
| time.
| kube-system wrote:
| The GP was commenting on the motivations of Ryanair, and
| the parent was responding to that.
| madaxe_again wrote:
| Actually, it isn't even possible in all cases.
|
| I literally have just got home from a Ryanair flight where they
| provided me with no option but a paper boarding pass for my
| daughter.
|
| It's essentially a result of a crazy hack they've implemented
| to support families who have Ryanair prime.
|
| You can only name adults as Ryanair prime members, and when you
| book through a Ryanair prime account, you can only book for the
| named members. There's a maximum of two per account, as it's
| intended for couples. The kids, aged 2-16, you have to make a
| "linked booking". You don't get boarding passes through the app
| or email - the only option is to go to a customer service desk
| and have them print you a paper boarding pass.
|
| Also... digital boarding passes _are_ an open standard - IATA
| BCBP. You can go make your own.
|
| https://www.iata.org/contentassets/1dccc9ed041b4f3bbdcf8ee86...
| ranger_danger wrote:
| Page | 32
|
| 2.6.3. Fraud Prevention
|
| Ill-intentioned persons may falsify their BCBP by changing
| the flight number or class of service. They may also simply
| print two copies of the BCBP and pass one to a friend, or
| even create a counterfeit BCBP. Technical solutions exist,
| e.g. algorithms, called certificates, which can for example
| secure the bar code if necessary.
| rkagerer wrote:
| Which I assume also means you need to agree to a shitty, user-
| hostile ToS?
| ekjhgkejhgk wrote:
| > And of course it's only possible using a specific proprietary
| app.
|
| Right. I like email. I guess fuck me.
| hansvm wrote:
| Yeah, it's right up there with the rest of the shady business
| practices.
|
| Delta, for example, charges more physical cash for a cash+miles
| ticket than for a pure cash ticket (every time I've been
| inclined to try to use miles over the last few years anyway). I
| get that they maybe don't meet the legal barrier for fraud, but
| even a child can see that it's unethical.
|
| Toss in the seat-selection UI (strongly suggesting you have to
| select a seat if you don't know the game and figure out how to
| exit that menu, but every possible seat has an upcharge above
| the ticket price), "trip insurance" which is insanely
| overpriced and mostly only covers the things the airline is
| already required to reimburse you for, and everything else they
| do, and it's obvious that when a new anti-feature comes out
| (mandatory app usage being the latest and greatest) it just
| exists to scam a few more dollars out of you and lie a bit more
| about the true ticket price.
| TrainedMonkey wrote:
| I am going to summarize with - they want you to use their app
| for monetization and ux purposes.
| cyanydeez wrote:
| Open source should work hard on a "universal" VM to load these
| types of apps into.
| xn wrote:
| The airline that inspired at least one passenger to write a song
| about them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1SKldiiWm4
| _trampeltier wrote:
| Reminder, soon you need just a strong jammer to stop the world.
| fmkamchatka wrote:
| > Will deliver a greener experience
|
| LMAO. When you get people on a flight your unprinted paper is
| meaningless.
| jojomodding wrote:
| Even before this, I already had all my
|
| > Travel Documents: accessible in one convenient place.
|
| in my hand, with it requiring exactly 0 clicks to present the
| piece of paper to the barcode scanner.
| kcartlidge wrote:
| I like how their number one benefit is _Order to Seat_. In one
| fell swoop it shows that:
|
| * Their priority is revenue above all else (fair enough; honest
| too)
|
| * They are either deceptive or stupid
|
| Re the deception/stupidity - if _everyone_ is moving to using the
| same app, how does _everyone_ "get served first" as per their
| bullet point?
| cromulent wrote:
| Last time I flew Ryanair in July, I presented my phone to the
| agent to check my boarding pass. She took my phone to scan it. I
| turned my head to talk to my companion.
|
| When I looked back, the agent was in my settings, quietly
| enabling all the permissions for the app (which I had
| deliberately disabled).
|
| When I (shocked) told her off, she rolled her eyes and said I
| would need to change them anyway to scan the bag tags.
|
| The cheek.
| imp0cat wrote:
| Seriously, just pin the app to the screen before handing your
| phone to anyone.
|
| https://www.samsung.com/sg/support/mobile-devices/pin-an-app...
| cromulent wrote:
| Yep. I naively thought that no-one representing a company
| would ever do such a thing.
| jakub_g wrote:
| TIL about App Pinning! It's also available in Android on
| Pixels.
| silisili wrote:
| I have no idea about Europeans, but as an American who's flown a
| lot recently, the push to smartphone based tickets has been a
| nightmare. Not because of the tickets, but people aren't
| seemingly smart or considerate enough to use them correctly.
|
| Paper tickets were so fast. Fold, press, beep, done.
|
| App based tickets? Constant announcements (I'm talking 10 or more
| during boarding) to turn your brightness up. Despite that, I saw
|
| 1 - 25ish percent of people had dark screens, so the attendant
| had to take the phone, up the brightness, scan it, then hand it
| back.
|
| 2 - A number of screen with cracks or something (didn't get a
| good look) that required moving the QR code around to get it to
| scan.
|
| 3 - An alarming number of people who didn't bother to even unlock
| their phone, who then proceed to fumble with thumbing or face
| scanning, close whatever they were doing, then go into the app
| and find their ticket.
|
| I'd say the boarding process took at minimum two to three times
| as long as they did with purely paper tickets.
| Arch-TK wrote:
| Temporarily controlling screen brightness is something that, at
| least on android, the app can do itself...
|
| The cracked screen thing - funny.
|
| I wonder how long these twats will hold out.
|
| I hope by the next time I fly Ryanair, someone has figured out
| how to emulate the look of the app and extract the relevant
| data so I don't have to run their garbage malware on my phone
| in order to have the pleasure to fly a "cheap" airline which
| bills you for everything after using every dark pattern
| imaginable when you purchase their tickets.
| jerlam wrote:
| While annoying, the boarding pass scanning process usually
| isn't the bottleneck.
|
| After I scanned my boarding pass, I then waited in line in the
| jet bridge, because people in the plane were busy putting their
| luggage in the overhead compartments, searching for their
| seats, moving to let people sit in the window seats, and other
| assorted activities.
| john01dav wrote:
| I wonder how these gate agents will react if I show their app
| throwing a hissy fit and refusing to work when it is blocked from
| any data mining. No permissions, no google play services, no
| safetynet, maybe no network. It is non cooperation with their bs,
| but it looks like a technical issue. And, if it can work without
| such things, then I hate it much less.
| neximo64 wrote:
| Probably thats the goal, so there is a way to charge a fee. Do
| you not know Ryanair
| galaxy_gas wrote:
| When you do this they charge you the human assist fee and
| boarding pass fee or you don't board.
| john01dav wrote:
| I'd probably pay the fee, take my flight, then charge it back
| with a reason like "Fee for not using app, app did not work.
| Fee advertised as optional was not, in fact, optional for
| me". Completely true statement.
| criddell wrote:
| You would win but then Ryanair would ban you from flying
| with them in the future.
| ponector wrote:
| Why should they care? Without presenting a boarding pass you
| can't even approach the gates, cannot pass security check.
|
| And you cannot get a boarding pass without an app.
| gkoz wrote:
| > What happens if I lose my smartphone or tablet?
|
| > If you have already checked-in online and your smartphone or
| tablet is lost, you will receive a free of charge boarding pass
| at the airport.
|
| Seems pretty clear what we need to do to stop this nonsense.
| jen20 wrote:
| Given that Ryanair used to charge to print a boarding pass at
| the airport, it seems pretty likely their response will just be
| to do so again. This is a company which literally hates its
| customers.
| Simon_ORourke wrote:
| I'm 100% certain the douche who runs Ryanair is extremely
| concerned about paper waste.
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| The last time I flew Ryanair their printed boarding pass didn't
| work in security.
|
| Not even when I went back and got them to print it at the desk.
|
| I did eventually get their app to download it, and it was fine in
| that.
|
| So. There's that.
| rkagerer wrote:
| Was hoping you could opt out by moving to Morroco, where local
| regulations bar digital boarding passes. But Ryanair still makes
| you get digital ones there, and have you redeem it for a physical
| one at the airport.
| jl6 wrote:
| Ryanair is best thought of, not as an airline, but as a kind of
| carnival game that delivers a small monetary prize if you win,
| and a nasty electric shock if you do it wrong. By playing
| Ryanair, you have the opportunity to acquire a slightly cheaper
| flight, and if you can keep a steady hand and navigate the
| arbitrary rules (each a cunning trap), you can indeed save some
| money. Good luck.
| ninalanyon wrote:
| So i can't fly with Ryanair unless I have smartphone.
| ibejoeb wrote:
| Note: You can print a boarding card at the kiosk or agent desk.
| fortran77 wrote:
| My 92 year old mother will never be able to fly RyanAir. She is
| unable to use a cell phone.
| bfkwlfkjf wrote:
| Reminder what kind of company ryanair is. At one point some 15
| (?) years ago ryanair used to charge you 60 euros if you showed
| up at the boarding gate having only the boarding pass on your
| phone instead of printed on a piece of paper. There was
| absolutely no reason for this (their reader reads as well from
| phone as from paper) other than betting that some fraction of the
| people would forget to print their boarding pass in paper. And
| they were right, I saw it in front of me many times and one time
| almost happened to me. If memory serves me I believe that at the
| time this was regulated out by the EU.
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