[HN Gopher] Ask HN: How would you set up a child's first Linux c...
___________________________________________________________________
Ask HN: How would you set up a child's first Linux computer?
As a tech parent I think one of the best things I did for both my
son and daughter was for their first computer to help them to build
and setup their own Linux computer (It was Ubuntu back then but
they've both moved themselves to Arch these days). We went
together and bought a second hand desktop (exciting the people
selling to us also) and when I got home I pulled out the Ram, HD
and CD drive and set them aside; and then together with a
screwdriver we "built the computer" over a few days. In windows
when a child goes searching the web for a "movie maker for windows"
they are going to be in a world of hurt either finding expensive
commercial options or super scammy sites promising the world. By
comparison on Linux if they search the local "app store" they'll
find stacks and stacks of free, useful, open licensed software. My
kids loved the power, freedom and later unexpected community this
bought them. Now my friend wants the same for their daughter who
is 8 years old. I'm planning to do the same and go with her
parents and her and buy a second hand desktop together and then put
Linux on it. My question is where would you go from there? What
suggestions do you have? What to install? Any mini "curriculums" or
ideas? Would love to hear your ideas and experiences. Linux with
free and open software is the goal and focus.
Author : evolve2k
Score : 167 points
Date : 2025-11-09 11:12 UTC (11 hours ago)
| theothertimcook wrote:
| Endless OS on a ex corporate box/laptop could be a good option.
|
| https://distrowatch.com/table-mobile.php?distribution=endles...
| bkanuka wrote:
| Thanks! Never heard of Endless OS till now. Looks very
| reasonable for kids.
|
| My kids are too young for it, but it lead me to find GCompris
| (especially with kiosk mode) which is for a much better fit for
| my kid's ages.
| al_borland wrote:
| I got my nephews a raspberry pi for their first computer. I tried
| gifting an old laptop, but that was rejected my the parents as
| "too much", so I went the Pi route... first with a Kano Kit
| (which I think is no defunct) and later with a Pi 400.
|
| The Kano was nice, because it was built for kids and had some
| guided stuff to help get them into it with various software and
| hardware to play around with.
|
| With the Pi 400 it was stock Raspbian. The kid wasn't sure where
| to begin. While it came with a book geared toward kids, I don't
| know that he read it. I was trying to find a way to show him
| around to stuff he might think is fun, without it seeming boring
| over overwhelming, but I didn't feel it went that well. I was
| also living 6 hours away at the time, so there weren't regular
| visits for questions or to help things along, and the parents
| didn't know anything about Linux.
|
| Ultimately, I don't think it inspired them as much as I was
| hoping. All they actually wanted was something to play Minecraft
| on, and the Pi edition was a very compromised experience for
| Minecraft. The Kano did have a mode to let people use Scratch
| type programming to automate aspects of building, which I thought
| was really cool, but it didn't totally seem to click... though I
| did see some limited use after a couple years.
|
| I think not having someone in the house who can guide and field
| questions really hindered the ability for them to really thrive
| on Linux. It would probably be worth including a series of
| lessons to ramp up their skills and knowledge. Doing something
| like that was difficult for me due to the distance and also not
| so much parental support on the idea of kids on computers. I was
| swimming against the current a little with those gifts, because I
| thought it was important they get access to the main tool they
| are likely to use throughout their life.
| d3Xt3r wrote:
| I would recommend installing Scratch[1] - it's a programming
| language designed for kids from 8yrs old onwards. I would
| recommend pairing it with a Raspberry Pi, as you can do fun real-
| world physical stuff with using Scratch, and I think kids can
| find that very interesting. Eg, start with a simple program to
| turn LED lights on and off, programming buttons, playing sounds
| etc. Eventually this could lead to making simple games or other
| programs. Regardless, would highly recommend getting a Raspberry
| Pi as its just so much fun using it to interact with the physical
| world and getting to learn actual electronics.
|
| [1] https://scratch.mit.edu/parents/
| jerkstate wrote:
| seconded, Scratch is a wonderful learning environment. I would
| pair it with ChatGPT and supervision, LLMs will really help
| flesh out ideas and figure out how to implement them for kids
| who won't know how to start, and since you can't just copy-
| paste into Scratch, the kid will have to actually do the work
| of dragging the blocks around. We did some amazing stuff with
| Scratch - visualizing algebra and trig functions by drawing
| them as a graphing calculator would, we even made a binary tree
| based morse code decoder, a rocket simulator (using real-ish
| rocket equation physics, air resistance, etc). Now we have
| mostly moved onto Desmos (graphing calculator) and Python.
| jedimastert wrote:
| I don't want to police someone else's parenting, but even
| with supervision I would be deeply cautious against exposing
| kids to LLMs from a developmental standpoint. Even adults
| have a hard time not anthropomorphizing LLMs, a kid under a
| certain again would essentially be unable to not view an LLM
| as a person, which could have some SERIOUS ramifications down
| the line.
| nrjames wrote:
| As a parent with two kids that used Scratch during 2020 or
| so... be cautious. The web community was an unregulated social
| network with follows, likes, comments, and a wide age range
| (apparently) of people interacting. Around that time, there was
| a lot of inappropriate content, some bullying, sketches about
| self-harm, sex, etc. Perhaps they've fixed the issue. If not, I
| would try to install it locally and keep them away from the
| official website.
|
| Incidentally, I later came to believe that the visual coding
| impeded their ability to learn text-based coding. That was just
| my experience and I don't have formal research to back it up,
| but I still wonder about it.
| tracnar wrote:
| There's Hedy if you want to try a text based programming
| language for kids: https://www.hedy.org/
| QuaternionsBhop wrote:
| > visual coding impeded their ability to learn text-based
| coding
|
| As a former child, my opinion is the opposite. I learned
| visual programming with Lego Mindstorms NXT in ~2008, and
| later developed an interest in text programming on Roblox in
| ~2012. It's my belief that my fluency with concepts like
| control flow and values output from one part of the program
| serving as inputs for another part of the program were
| largely transferable to text-based programming. Learning a
| first programming language is 30% learning syntax, and 70%
| learning programming.
| bbbhltz wrote:
| We were gifted our old work laptops. My partner and I work for
| the same place. She gave hers to the mother in law after I wiped
| Windows and put Linux on it.
|
| I gave mine to my son. I figured that my son might want to use
| the touch screen I went with Gnome because it seemed a little
| more touch friendly. I told myself it doesn't matter because he
| is 8 and I can always reinstall.
|
| I chose Debian (Stable) so I wouldn't have to deal with keeping
| it updated, put a root password to prevent them from going crazy
| with installing stuff.
|
| I will have to put Scratch on it someday, for the moment he cares
| about the following:
|
| - the LEGO website to look at instructions - the music player to
| listen to soundtracks from his favourite games - MyPaint for
| making drawings
|
| He is starting to figure out the idea of folders, deleting
| things, undo, etc., but hasn't asked for any other software or
| even games yet.
|
| I am a professor and would like for my son to learn about word
| processors, spreadsheets, programming, etc.. If he ever asks, I
| will give him the root password and let him browse the repos.
| Right now, I'm just happy to see him enjoy it without doing what
| lots of his friends do: sit in front of YouTube all afternoon.
| ta12653421 wrote:
| how do you manage parentcontrol on YT?
| isoprophlex wrote:
| You ban it. It's mental cancer, to both adults and children.
| And I'm not even being hyperbolic.
|
| Even the kid-safe stuff is so incredibly viral and empty, it
| kills all creativity and volition.
| evolve2k wrote:
| I'd agree with deferring any and all social media as long
| as you can get away with.
|
| On the YT front a small thing that helps is an extension
| that removes all recommendations. So YouTube opens to a
| blank screen with only search and after watching a video
| there's no now shady this. So it becomes much more
| functional to their interests.
|
| "How to _____" "Explain how ____ works."
|
| Helps reduce the addictive parts and keep the "it's a tool"
| parts in focus.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| Yeah, Youtube for my six year old son is restricted to us
| looking up stuff for him to watch. Want to know how pencils
| are made? We'll look up a good video. Recently, that's not
| often either.
|
| CocoMelon and its ilk on Youtube are abhorrent. It's
| digital crack tailored to absorb every little bit of
| attention. Avoid that shit.
| graemep wrote:
| There is a lot of good stuff on it too, including a lot of
| educational stuff.
| zarify wrote:
| I recently installed Ubuntu on a little Geekom mini PC for my 6
| and 8 year olds to share. So far my 6 yo isn't too into it, but
| her older sister mostly uses it for the games I've put onto it
| through Epic and Steam and programming using MakeCode, mostly
| for Arcade (https://arcade.makecode.com) (I have a couple of
| micro:bit-based handheld shields) and more recently getting
| into the awesomely simple networking that the micro:bit
| provides (https://makecode.microbit.org).
|
| Since the micro:bit requires some file management for
| programming them, that's been a good entry point to the file
| system.
| ta12653421 wrote:
| Im also interested in this, so happy to hear any experience!
|
| In my situation i need some type of "remote admin capability",
| since we are separated :-(
| drlobster wrote:
| I'd give them a stack of Slackware floppies and half the manual.
| nickserv wrote:
| Pretty sure that's against the Geneva convention.
| GTP wrote:
| This comment made my day :D
| iso1631 wrote:
| If that was in the 1990s that would be impressive
|
| If that was in the 2020s...
| austin-cheney wrote:
| I would put your entire house behind a custom DNS relay you
| control, like a PiHole. Use that to eliminate access to
| advertisements, pornography, some walware, and social media.
|
| I would also consider use of Gentoo as your Linux distribution to
| force learning about building packages and command line. I would
| avoid Arch as that might be too much of a challenge.
|
| For me the goal would be forcing them to learn how this stuff
| works. I would emphasize scripting in the shell like bash
| scripts, JavaScript via node, Python, and possibly even Perl.
| This will take a lot of guidance to get this started because they
| will need some real world use cases about why they immediately
| benefit.
|
| Once you get the OS finally set up create an ISO of it and put it
| on both a thumb drive and home file server. Give the kiddo root
| access to their own computer and let them really break stuff
| because you can restore from backup
|
| Edit:
|
| Immediately downvoted. This comment apparently caused a nerd god
| to shed a tear.
| subscribed wrote:
| Learning to build packages? Gentoo? PERL?
|
| As a first platform for a preteen?
| austin-cheney wrote:
| Its how I started learning this stuff as a preteen before
| Linux as a thing. If learning is too hardcore just get them
| an iphone.
| tanderson92 wrote:
| I was literally contributing to Gentoo Linux at age 13.
| Before, my dad started me on Slackware.
|
| edit: downvoted. Some of you all simply have no belief in or
| respect for the intelligence of children.
| GTP wrote:
| Starting hardcore carries the risk of giving them a bad firs
| impression that can keep them from willing to learn thise
| things in the future.
| austin-cheney wrote:
| Its how I learned this stuff back in the days of DOS.
|
| So then pretend its easy and get them an iphone.
|
| I suspect the goal is you, as a parent, want to feel good to
| yourself that you are doing something positive for a child.
| If that's all this is really about then put them in a corner
| with some educational videos and give yourself a high-five.
| ikamm wrote:
| OP this is who you are setting up your children to be like
| GTP wrote:
| > Its how I learned this stuff back in the days of DOS.
|
| In the days of DOS there was no (widespread) alternative.
|
| You first need to capture their interest, otherwise they
| will see the shiny GUIs other people are using and wonder
| why they have to write long hard-to-remember commands
| instead of double-clicking on an icon.
| austin-cheney wrote:
| Yep, that's what I thought. Just get them an iphone and
| be done with it.
| GTP wrote:
| You seem to think that the world is either black or
| white, but reality is more nuanced than that. Plus, the
| fact that you learned a certain thing in a certain way
| doesn't mean that it is the best way for everyone else to
| learn that thing.
| austin-cheney wrote:
| It is. You are either willing to spend time with your
| child or you aren't.
| GTP wrote:
| Now I think you're trolling, because at no point this
| discussion was about the will of spenting time with your
| children or lack thereof.
| pessimizer wrote:
| You seem to think that you can only spend 24 hours a day
| with your child or zero.
| iso1631 wrote:
| > I would put your entire house behind a custom DNS relay you
| control
|
| Advertising companies are pushing DoH to remove control from
| you and give them the control, so be aware of that
|
| > I would emphasize scripting in the shell like bash scripts
|
| What would they want to script? What will they achieve? Why
| would they be interested in this?
| edde746 wrote:
| I think the benefits of DoH (& ECH) outweigh the negatives,
| especially when it comes to censorship resistance.
| ogig wrote:
| >Advertising companies are pushing DoH to remove control from
| you and give them the control, so be aware of that
|
| True. My first naive attempt at content filtering for my kids
| was to use a family friendly DNS for the whole network.
| That's when I learned about chrome's secure DNS option, witch
| effectively bypasses my intended settings. I guess endpoint
| control is the only effective option. A mandatory http proxy
| could be used to filter by hostname too. None of them easy,
| and I'm supposed to be an expert. Normal people has little
| chance of implementing technical parental controls.
| austin-cheney wrote:
| > What would they want to script? What will they achieve? Why
| would they be interested in this?
|
| That's where you, the parent, are required to spend with the
| child to help them answer those same questions. The way to
| answer it is what problems do you have that you wish were
| solved... then show the kid that.
| iso1631 wrote:
| Problems I want to solve then get my kids to solve them?
| Sure they can do some
|
| Because they will have no problems a computer can solve
| with bash scripts
| nickserv wrote:
| This would not work for mine, they just wouldn't use it under
| those conditions. I would rather show them a good time
| initially and increase complexity if they take a liking to
| learning about computers. My eldest is much more artistic than
| technical and has little interest in programming and tech in
| general. But he took to Krita on Linux with enthusiasm.
|
| BTW didn't downvote you.
| austin-cheney wrote:
| My wife, who is clearly not a child, thought all the same
| things.
|
| Her computer is old and we are no a budget... So now she is
| running Linux kicking and screaming. In all fairness there
| was no learning curve at all because she hardly knew how to
| use Windows in the first place. I showed her how to install
| applications from the command line and configure her games to
| run native or with Wine. She is happy camper, especially
| since her favorite games are running faster than on Windows.
|
| What I really suspect is that people want their children to
| just be smart... on their own. If only there were some tools
| you could buy that would just do it for you.
|
| The reality is children smart enough, at any age, to really
| do anything on a computer beyond gaming, social media, or
| ReactJS can learn anything, but it will take direct
| involvement from a parent to coach them through it. This is
| exactly the same if the kid is 8 or 18. There is no magic
| Linux set up that will just do it automagically.
| montroser wrote:
| Thanks for this perspective. For many kids this might be too
| much of a learning curve -- but for some, it might be right on.
|
| I learned a TON in the 80s as a kid by rummaging around with a
| retired Kaypro II running CP/M, breaking stuff by accident and
| fixing, and trying to hack the few games it had...
| mystifyingpoi wrote:
| > For me the goal would be forcing them to learn how this stuff
| works
|
| Ignoring the hilarity of this comment, that's not really how
| kids learn.
|
| - "Dad, I'd like to draw a house on this screen"
|
| - "Ok kiddo, first we have to download stage1 tarball from FTP
| mirror I know the name of without looking it up"
| fainpul wrote:
| "Dad, can I play a game?"
|
| "No! You're learning Perl now! End of discussion!"
| johnisgood wrote:
| I was going to say I'd help them install Gentoo or Arch. I
| learned a lot myself with some help of a friend through SSH
| when installing and using Gentoo.
|
| Do not pre-install, but make them part of the installation
| process. :P
| poolnoodle wrote:
| I sure am glad I had normal parents
| sen wrote:
| My kids (pre-teen) have Pi400s. It lets them play around with
| basic graphics apps, write stories, write and print letters to
| family, play simple games without the kid-hostile world of modern
| "mainstream" gaming, watch movies from the NAS, etc.
|
| More than enough to keep them entertained and teach them the
| basics.
| shantara wrote:
| Fedora Atomic, maybe? I would have probably found it a bit too
| restrictive as a teen, but I think it's a good choice for
| preventing a younger child from accidentally breaking the system,
| while still providing enough ability to experiment and learn
| stuff using distrobox
| evgpbfhnr wrote:
| Breaking the system is the point! Let them break stuff, you
| learn when you have to fix it afterwards.
| xrd wrote:
| They probably will want to play games. It's a slippery slope. But
| if you go that route:
|
| Steam works amazingly well. And you can set up family controls.
|
| Roblox works great using "Sober" I don't recommend letting them
| play Roblox but I'm stuck with it.
|
| Minecraft and Curseforge work well, too.
|
| Time Keeper Next is a great time limiting control system. If you
| have a little awareness of docker you can run it in a container
| and even access it on your phone through an admin gui. If you
| need help on that get my email from my profile and I'll happily
| share my details.
|
| My kids 8,10,12 know how to use the command line. I'm really
| proud of them.
| assimpleaspossi wrote:
| This is how my co-worker's son turned from a happy, energetic
| 8-year old into a 400 pound 20-something who does nothing but
| play games as soon as he comes home from work. It consumes his
| whole life.
| rpdillon wrote:
| Steam? I'm not sure what you're referring to by "this". All
| they're recommending is a standard setup that millions of
| people have. If your co-worker's son turned into a 400 pound
| 20 something, that sounds like a separate set of problems,
| not based on Steam or using Linux.
| xrd wrote:
| Agreed. I think Linux is, 800% less predatory (I love Trump
| math) than Microsoft Windows. Just booting it up clean is
| inviting a salesperson shilling all kinds of junk to your
| kids.
| xrd wrote:
| I don't disagree at all. It's such a complicated problem,
| unless you have all the kids in your kid's circle prohibited
| from gaming the peer pressure is intense. I am starting to
| come to the conclusion that you can't really limit them (my
| kids were getting an hour on weekdays and two on weekends)
| but then my son especially fiends the rest of the weekend for
| screens and it is constant conflict. I'm at wits end. But
| they exploit any gaps in parent alignment and then you have
| predatory gaming companies where PM bonuses are tied to time
| in game. It's unhealthy for kids and families.
| fullstop wrote:
| That's a problem with the kid, not the games.
| croisillon wrote:
| Windows Movie Maker used to be such a gem, pity it has been
| discontinued! Nowadays I use Openshot on Windows
| johnisgood wrote:
| OpenShot is available for Linux, too, FWIW.
| poolnoodle wrote:
| It's what hooked me on video editing as a kid. I then moved on
| to cracked Sony Vegas and eventually Premiere and After
| Effects. I made short films with my siblings and friends to try
| and recreate VFX that I had seen on YouTube channels like
| freddiew. The interest eventually died off a bit but I gained
| skills in video editing that I have to this day. Movie Maker
| made that happen for me :)
| nickserv wrote:
| I went with LDE Neon for both my kids. It's also what I use, I
| really like the KDE ecosystem, very polished experience overall.
|
| Also it's similar enough to Windows that they don't feel
| completely out of touch on the school computers.
|
| Killer app is Krita for the older one, even got him a cheap Wacom
| later on.
|
| Otherwise school work, native Linux games, and YouTube. That last
| one with the younger one I have to keep an eye on. Honestly
| thinking about blocking access, we'll see.
|
| Both like gaming, so I set up wine for them on my machine with
| separate accounts. Learning about email, downloads, files and
| folders by installing Skyrim mods (using kid friendly settings on
| Nexus), also an exercise in managing frustration...
|
| Anyway everyone will be different, just set up something they'll
| enjoy. Already for a kid to know Linux exists is a head start.
| byronic wrote:
| Seconding "YouTube ban." I do it now at the network level. If
| at some point they alter parental controls to allow list
| channels I would consider adding it back, but the sheer
| quantity put forth onto the platform makes it impossible for
| any parent to moderate (or moderate effectively).
|
| At least with streaming a TV show or movie there are defined
| breaks instead of an endless array of kid dopamine
| nickserv wrote:
| Yes, that's what I'm thinking of doing, blocking directly on
| the router.
|
| It was somewhat manageable before with proper education
| (teaching them what to avoid, time limiting), but now with
| shorts and AI it's becoming a cesspool.
|
| The main reason I allow it is to show them the dangers of it,
| of knowing to be careful. Otherwise I feel like as soon as
| they get access, they'll be completely unprepared... and of
| course as they get older they will definitely get access.
| kreyenborgi wrote:
| Do you block it with openwrt? Any good packages?
| nurettin wrote:
| Just give them a raspberry pi and show them gcompris and luanti.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| My six year old had some good fun exploring GCompris, but it
| feels like it desperately needs an overhaul and some cleaning
| up.
| microtonal wrote:
| _My kids loved the power, freedom and later unexpected community
| this bought them._
|
| I think it is also important to realize/point out that we do a
| lot of projecting and our child may have very different
| interests. Not saying that applies to you _evolve2k_ , just
| wanted to make the general point.
|
| I set up a Linux machine with our daughter and while it was
| initially ok, she did not have much interest in the power/freedom
| and it only became a nuisance for her. Her school/friends use
| PowerPoint - there is a lot of friction trying work with them in
| LibreOffice. She wanted to do DTP-like things several times and
| the Linux options are not exactly... user-friendly. Etc.
|
| In the end we got her a Mac Mini. She can still open a terminal,
| use Homebrew, etc. if she ever develops an interest. Heck, she
| can use most free software. However, she can also do the stuff
| she is currently interested in much more easily. E.g., she uses
| Swift Publisher, which is a very simple/user-friendly DTP
| program, can collaborate on PowerPoint presentations when needed,
| etc.
|
| First and foremost listen to what _your child_ is interested in.
| evolve2k wrote:
| Very fair. Yes you can't force them but I still think there is
| value in attempting to start the Linux way which you very much
| did.
|
| Sounds like you're doing a great job and tuning in to the needs
| and interests of your child. Love it!
| rpdillon wrote:
| > she did not have much interest in the power/freedom
|
| The reason I started with Linux with my kids is so they were
| aware that that power and freedom exists. Kids that grow up in
| a mobile ecosystem (and increasingly both the Microsoft and
| Apple ecosystems) are fundamentally disempowered, just as the
| adults that use that ecosystem are. The goal of having my kids
| use Linux was to make them understand that they did have
| agency.
|
| Fifteen years on, I have to say it was an excellent decision.
| They're light years ahead of their peers in terms of their
| ability to use computers.
| eptcyka wrote:
| When forced to use Linux at an early age, I was given the
| agency to be made fun of and miss out on social things, i.e.
| discussing currently relevant games. It got me the jobs and
| knowledge eventually too, but I really did not learn much
| from blindly running ./configure and make and make install. I
| shudder to think exactly how my wine installation worked.
| There are significant downsides to using Linux and the
| freedom it brings needs lots of context to appreciate. If you
| don't provide the context, Linux is not empowering- it is
| just a windows that works less.
| rpdillon wrote:
| > discussing currently relevant games
|
| We shun most of this as faddish and low quality. Fortnite
| and Battlefield are replaced with OpenMW and Veloran.
|
| If you're doing things blindly in Linux, there's no point.
| The value is in understanding and leveraging that
| understanding to achieve your goals.
|
| In many ways, this isn't about Linux at all. It's about
| parenting.
| eptcyka wrote:
| At the time it was a GTA title. Regardless, the Linux
| alternatives are useless, there is no alternative to the
| socially agreed upon phenomena, the child can either
| participate pr they cannot. The exclusion is not
| necessarily a bad thing, but you end up having the child
| swim upstream a bit.
| em-bee wrote:
| that's fair. unfortunately windows has changed so much
| since that time that the downsides of allowing kids to
| use it are much worse now than they were even 10 years
| ago.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| That's not really the case in 2025. Proton is very good
| testdelacc1 wrote:
| All games run on Linux in 2025 except multiplayer titles
| that want to install kernel level anti cheat.
| eptcyka wrote:
| Does Fortnite? I remember finishing hl2 on dx level 7,
| and then trying the same with ep1 and ep2. Those games
| are a lot harder when half the physics objects are not
| rendered. Do not get me wrong - I run Linux on all of my
| personal machines today, I play games on them, I know
| what's the state of gaming on Linux. I also know that
| every now and then I will get to at the very least read
| some logs to figure out what's going wrong, e.g. the
| native port of Civ VI was looking for a version of
| openssl whose time had passed. Further, relying on
| Wine/Proton inherently means you will always lag behind
| the bleeding edge in terms of DX APIs, as wine/mesa
| people need to catch up to implement them. Even worse if
| it is not related to graphics,e.g. as the spatial audio
| APIs don't have an open source analogue that is
| ferociously trying to keep up with feature parity. And of
| course we also have kernel level anti-cheat. I have
| immense respect for everyone who is involved in making
| games (and windows software in general) work on Linux.
| But there will always be stumbling blocks when you are
| playing 2nd fiddle, and you've not been given the sheets.
| And nobody told you where the gig is happening.
| scott_w wrote:
| > If you're doing things blindly in Linux, there's no
| point. The value is in understanding and leveraging that
| understanding to achieve your goals.
|
| I don't know about that. Just to be upfront: I'm not
| advocating putting your kids through this because I think
| they have to have that motivation for themselves to
| really benefit.
|
| However, I basically did blindly follow guides to try and
| get things working without fully understanding what I was
| doing. Over time, things stick and I'm able to look under
| the surface and get a better understanding and better
| solve the problem I'm facing.
|
| Hell, any "Learn X Language" book works like this!
| There's always boilerplate that you need to kinda skip
| over for a while just so you can get a running program.
| Hell, I'm leaning Rust and I'm using #[] "decorators" and
| I couldn't tell you exactly what they're doing!
| himeexcelanta wrote:
| I'm sure you also give out raisins and sugar free mints
| at Halloween too.
| rpdillon wrote:
| We don't get many kids coming to the house on Halloween.
| Only two this year. We buy this big bag of candy at
| Costco, and we always end up with a lot of extra, and my
| kids end up sitting and eating it. Not great.
| haunter wrote:
| >We shun most of this as faddish and low quality.
| Fortnite and Battlefield are replaced with OpenMW and
| Veloran.
|
| My parents didn't let me read Song of Ice and Fire Harry
| Potter (and do a lot of other contemporary culture
| things) when I was younger because they said they are pop
| culture fad. Only haute culture literature in this
| household! I've had a good childhood but I also missed
| out on a lot of good things because parenting decisions
| like this.
|
| And Fortnite is actually an awesome game, it's the mugen
| we were all dreaming for.
| testdelacc1 wrote:
| The point isn't to play the best "non-faddish" games.
| It's to play what's in the zeitgeist and form bonds with
| people their own age.
|
| I'm so glad my parents didn't override my decisions on
| literature or video games or TV shows. I watched anime
| then, my parents didn't get it, and that's perfectly
| fine. I continue to enjoy it now. If they had made me
| adopt their mindset of "anime = fad" or "anime = cartoon
| = childish" I'd have been worse off. Instead of enjoying
| masterpieces like _Frieren_ I'd be snobbishly thinking
| about what a fad it is.
| rpdillon wrote:
| We avoid fads because they come and go too quickly. My
| kids connect with their friends on games that are more
| enduring, like the From Software titles.
| bossyTeacher wrote:
| I feel so sorry for your kids. They deserve a better
| parent. Remember: your kids are NOT you and they DESERVE
| to have agency in their lives EVEN if it goes against
| your interests and desires.
| graemep wrote:
| That is such a sweeping statement. Part of what a parent
| does is guides kids to good decisions, and protect them
| from the consequences of bad ones. They need agency, and
| more as they get older, but you do not let them just do
| what you want.
| rpdillon wrote:
| My job is to guide them and use my judgment where their
| judgment is poor. That is intrinsic in the nature of
| parenting. Thank you for the guidance though. I
| understand that you feel strongly and that you hope my
| kids can be happy even though they're stuck with me as a
| parent. I do too!
| anvuong wrote:
| Enduring based on what metrics? Fornite is now an 8-year
| old massively (and still is) successful game. And the
| Battlefield series is actually 7 years older than the
| Souls series if you count from Demon's Souls. Comparing
| these 3 games is even more absurd because they are from
| entirely different genres, and they are not mutually
| exclusive, one can enjoy more than one genre.
|
| I agree with other commenters in here, I feel sorry for
| your kids and thankful that my parents didn't treat me
| like what you are doing with your kids now.
| rpdillon wrote:
| When I think about enduring titles, I think about whether
| the kind of game that you'd pick up 20 years later and
| still consider to be a good game. I raised them on a
| curriculum of games starting with 80s titles and as they
| got older I progressed them all the way up into the 2020s
| so they would have a perspective on where particular
| gameplay mechanics came from. I see your point about the
| longevity of the Battlefield series and Fortnite, but my
| impression is people don't go back and play earlier
| Battlefield titles: I have always viewed them a little
| bit like the FIFA titles where there is a constant
| treadmill of needing to buy the latest version of the
| game. This is not true for Dark Souls, for example --
| it's a sort of game you could play in decades and it
| would be as much of a masterpiece then it is today. I
| didn't really mean to compare the titles, but rather to
| use them as examples of titles that I would approve or
| disapprove of.
|
| My kids choose the games they play, but I exercise
| judgment in vetoing certain decisions. My example of the
| From Software titles were not games that I bought for
| them, or even played (in the case of Elden Ring), but
| rather titles that my boys were into because of their
| friend group playing it. They've been playing Night Reign
| lately and enjoying it. I think people read into my
| dismissal of Battlefield and Fortnite as indicative of
| some much larger pattern that they've had a really bad
| experience with, but I'm not sure that conclusion is
| warranted.
| testdelacc1 wrote:
| Again, that's you substituting your judgement for theirs.
| There's nothing wrong participating in a fad btw. Free
| time doesn't need to be "productive" by only consuming
| something exalted like From Software.
| rpdillon wrote:
| I substitute my judgment for theirs as a parent; that's
| intrinsic in the nature of the job.
|
| As I said in my previous comment, my kids chose the From
| Software titles because their friend group plays it, so I
| don't think that's a particularly good example of me
| substituting my judgment for theirs.
| testdelacc1 wrote:
| Ok, give us a few examples of when you substituted your
| judgment for theirs.
|
| You're trying to wriggle out by saying actually, my kids
| have impeccable taste and I didn't tell them about From
| Software, they picked it up themselves. So tell us when
| they wanted to try something that was popular among their
| friends and you vetoed it.
| ang_cire wrote:
| I was 100% on your side until you list FromSoftware
| games. As good as they are, they're a single-genre game
| developer that has a very narrow design and audience.
|
| There's nothing more substantive or enduring about their
| games intrinsically, that's 100% you just projecting your
| own opinions about what games are 'enduring' onto your
| kids, and is not giving them the 'guidance' you seem to
| think it is.
| hamdingers wrote:
| > We shun most of this as faddish and low quality.
|
| This is almost word for word the same way my parents
| talked about Harry Potter and Pokemon when I was feeling
| alienated in school for only being allowed to read
| religious books for entertainment.
|
| It leads to some pretty strong resentment, if that's the
| kind of thing you care about.
| rpdillon wrote:
| My boys are sitting and reading through this with me as I
| make comments. They are very surprised by the resentment
| expressed by many of the comments.
|
| My eldest read your comment and said that Battlefield and
| Fortnite are trash because of the multiplayer component
| that leads to gameplay that's low quality. He doesn't
| feel this way about Elden Ring, for example. In short, we
| exercise judgment.
| hamdingers wrote:
| What does that even mean? How can we trust your kid's
| judgement of games they're not allowed to play?
|
| When I was a kid I parroted my parents opinions about
| Harry Potter books being a pathway to practicing
| witchcraft. Now in hindsight I recognize those weren't so
| much my opinions as they were a performance to get my
| parents approval.
|
| To be clear I'm not psychoanalyzing your kids (not liking
| multiplayer is rational), I'm sharing my own related
| experience.
| shigawire wrote:
| That's an opinion... All multiplayer games are bad.
| rpdillon wrote:
| I didn't want to paraphrase what he said too much, but
| since you're inquiring, I think the general idea is that
| multiplayer games strive for particular types of
| engagement and the techniques that companies use to drive
| that engagement is often negative. I can see that this
| also exists in single-player games, particularly in
| mobile apps. We tend to avoid those as well.
|
| Multiplayer is a special category of risk in my opinion
| because I was an ever quest player and I built a feeling
| of responsibility toward the players that were relying on
| me and this led me away from schoolwork. I'm trying to
| avoid that same pitfall by still allowing them to game,
| even in a multiplayer setting, just only to a limited
| degree.
|
| We simply try to avoid the games that are the most
| egregious in this particular way because they're the
| riskiest.
| eptcyka wrote:
| Just to be clear, I don't think your parenting decisions
| here are harmful, and I wouldn't be where I am today if
| it wasn't for the centimeter thick gentoo manual. My only
| plea is to acknowledge the downsides- and it might well
| be the case they are minimal. I wish you luck and
| patience in parenting.
| graemep wrote:
| Limiting reading like that is extremely restrictive and
| unnecessary.
|
| I do not think it can be compared to choice of OS where
| you have to choose one per machine (unless you dual boot
| or run VMs).
|
| I am guessing when you say "religious books" you mean a
| narrow range of books approved of by a very narrow minded
| religious group. Not much mention of, say, scriptures and
| mystics using sexual imagery, for example. right? Of the
| many deeply religious major authors who did not fit that
| particular groups views?
| hamdingers wrote:
| If you follow the context of the thread it should be
| clear my reply is about GP prohibiting their kids from
| playing games with their friends, not the OS choice.
| rpdillon wrote:
| My kids play games with their friends, just to be clear.
| What we don't do is pick up any game that their friends
| happen to be playing without evaluating it first. And
| this is a discussion that I have with my children, not
| some mandate from on high.
| tietjens wrote:
| This comment is epically pretentious, but I agree that
| kids shouldn't be playing online games designed as
| skinner boxes to increase playtime and financial spend.
| Makes kids miss out because everyone is playing them? Eh,
| too bad. They gotta wait for their late teens, imho.
| miningape wrote:
| > If you don't provide the context, Linux is not
| empowering- it is just a windows that works less
|
| Couldn't agree more - Linux can be a great way to get into
| computing. But only if done in the right way. Arguably for
| an older kid / teenager (boys usually) it's important to
| have access to the same games your friends are playing,
| otherwise you start to become naturally excluded from lunch
| table talk.
|
| Of course it still depends if the kid is a social butterfly
| etc., but parents should understand this.
| doubled112 wrote:
| Agreed. My kids (8 and 11) both have Linux on desktops in
| the living room. They work really well for what they want
| now, but someday we might have to make different choices.
| em-bee wrote:
| the same happens with children not getting mobile phones,
| or not wearing the same brand expensive clothes that others
| can afford.
|
| sorry, but what you experienced is comparable to peer
| pressure, and as a parent, giving in to that is the wrong
| approach. you will not agree because you suffered as a
| result and i am sorry you had to go through that. my oldest
| is just getting into the age where these things start to
| matter, but regardless, my kids won't get phones and or
| anything besides linux for their own sake.
|
| fortunately times are changing and working in our favor.
| windows 11 is practically unusable already, inpart because
| it refuses to run on anything but the most recent
| computers, and in part because it requires an online
| account, not to mention all the advertising that i refuse
| to subject my kids to. windows games run on linux better
| than ever thanks to steam, and my kids school uses linux
| too for the most part. so admittedly, this will be easier
| for my kids than it was for you.
| rpdillon wrote:
| That's a good point. My oldest has root on his own
| System76 laptop, and he's quite accomplished at
| administering it. But he is able to play and beat Elden
| Ring in Dark Souls, which would not have been an option
| five years ago in terms of compatibility.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| Just in the last 5ish years Linux has turned into one of
| the best gaming platforms. I'm able to run pretty much
| anything on my laptop and steam deck both running Linux
| fullstop wrote:
| My kids were exposed to many operating systems at a young
| age, and you couldn't be more right regarding the mobile
| ecosystem. There's a lot of highschool aged kids who don't
| understand directories on a file system. They're used to
| tapping "open" and being presented with a list of files
| sandboxed in that environment.
| xnyan wrote:
| The situation you describing is the norm for everyone,
| including you, for most subjects. Expertise gives you
| greater understanding and allows for more meaningful
| engagement with the subject, but most people are experts
| very few things.
|
| When I "dance" (sway to the beat) at a wedding, I am doing
| the equivalent of tapping open on the file, whereas my
| parter with their lifetime of dance experience can move
| with a level of skill that is much more meaningful and
| nuanced. My best friend is a chef, his daughter has a vasty
| deeper awareness of flavor and technique vs most kids
| (including mine) who are just consuming without much
| thought. The same goes for my colleague who is also a
| musician and DJ - their kids can hear a song and instantly
| understand all the layers of production and
| instrumentation, whereas most children and adults are just
| nodding along to the beat.
|
| If I consider most of the things I do in my life, I am
| interacting with them at very shallow and superficial level
| versus an expert, and I would assume the same is true for
| you.
| fullstop wrote:
| I totally agree about expertise in a given domain. With
| that being said, I would consider navigating a directory
| tree below the level of swaying to the beat.
|
| I'm not expecting them to get into the nitty gritty about
| page alignment and DMA transfers. A directory tree is
| more on level with toe tapping.
| Gerard0 wrote:
| Hee hee, great response to a great response!
| supriyo-biswas wrote:
| When I was a teenager, I tried to dabble in Linux but the
| hardware support was abysmal and I couldn't use it, despite
| my strong intention to permanently switch to Linux.
|
| These days the hardware support is usually fine and my
| employer requires me to use Linux on the desktop, but still,
| if I was a teenager I'd still be interested in games, a
| functional office suite, etc.
|
| For my Linux hobby at the time, I ended up doing was
| installing MinGW on Windows XP and using Linux VMs on
| Windows, albeit I had an interest in that kind of stuff.
|
| I don't think forcing people to daily drive Linux for the
| usual stuff makes much sense unless they want it and have an
| interest in low level configuration.
| hastamelo wrote:
| for many kids TikTok is power, not a terminal
| graemep wrote:
| My experience is similar, although my kids are are a bit
| older (the younger one is 17).
|
| There have been issues, mostly with gaming. On the other hand
| they are happy with the results in retrospect. I just got the
| 17 year old a laptop with Windows 11 on it she wants Linux
| installed on it.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > there is a lot of friction trying work with them in
| LibreOffice
|
| LibreOffice is always a sticking point, in my experience. I
| some times get roasted for saying it, but if you want people to
| have a good experience with Linux, point them toward something
| online like Google Docs. Yeah it's not consistent with the
| ideological purity that some people want, but in my experience
| non-technical people do much better on Linux when they don't
| have to deal with LibreOffice. I won't even speculate why, it's
| just not a good fit for non-technical Linux newcomers.
| charlie-83 wrote:
| Out of interest, what's your issue with LibreOffice? The only
| issue I have with it is when you need to open documents made
| in MSOffice. Otherwise, it does everything MSOffice does and
| faster with less cloud/AI crap. Reminds me of MSOffice during
| XP era when it just worked.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > what's your issue with LibreOffice?
|
| I'm sharing observations about seeing other people,
| including casual computer users, forced into using
| LibreOffice. It becomes the software experience they hate
| the most. They associate Linux with LibreOffice and want it
| all gone so they can go back to getting work done on mac or
| Windows like everyone else they know.
|
| Your comment is a good example of the disconnect between
| average computer users and the LibreOffice fans:
|
| > The only issue I have with it is when you need to open
| documents made in MSOffice. Otherwise, it does everything
| MSOffice does and faster with less cloud/AI crap. Reminds
| me of MSOffice during XP era
|
| Collaborating with other MS Office users is a key part of
| many people's jobs. Having poor MS Office compatibility
| isn't just a footnote, it's a showstopper issue that will
| make these people's jobs harder every single day. Making
| people's job harder and take more time is a great way to
| make them hate something.
|
| As for not having cloud features and having an old style XP
| era interface: These are also points that are only positive
| for a specific type of computer user wants computing to
| return the earlier, simpler era of computing they fondly
| remember. For everyone else, that "cloud crap" is a helpful
| feature for getting their job done and that XP era
| interface makes it feel like they're stuck using outdated
| software. I understand you don't use or like the new
| features, but average people who use this software in their
| jobs might actually benefit from the new features and new
| interface.
| flakeoil wrote:
| Good point, but is Google Docs more compatible with MS
| Office than Libre Office? Can one work fricitonless
| between a Google Docs user and an MS Word user?
|
| There is also OnlyOffice as an alternative to Google
| Docs. https://www.onlyoffice.com/download-desktop
| charlie-83 wrote:
| I guess I wasn't really thinking about it in the context
| of jobs since the post was about kids. I was thinking
| about the kinds of "non-techie" people I often help with
| computer stuff (often older people). They don't even know
| what the cloud is, they just want to have a spreadsheet
| for monthly expenses, make a document or two to print out
| and an occasional presentation. There are a huge number
| of these kinds of people but they don't really generate
| money as a market segment so MSOffice has completely
| abandoned them. Those people do sometimes need to open a
| file someone else made in MSOffice but LibreOffice
| compatibility is good enough for their purposes.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > I guess I wasn't really thinking about it in the
| context of jobs since the post was about kids.
|
| The primary reason kids would use office tools is for
| classwork, which is not dissimilar from job work.
|
| If you're submitting a book report or something it
| doesn't matter what you're using to write it. However,
| once you get into group projects (which are very common,
| in my experience) being the odd one out who can't work
| with others is really not good.
|
| Kids also learn how to use computers at most schools.
| They're probably exposed to some combination of MS Office
| and/or Google Docs products already.
| rorylawless wrote:
| The average person in the real world is more likely to
| encounter documents made in Office, that would be a major
| barrier to adoption.
| andrewflnr wrote:
| I find it to be just a little bit irritatingly flaky in the
| UI. Weird glitches, slow sometines for no obvious reason. I
| don't do anything complicated with it; I can easily believe
| there are bugs lurking in lesser-used control paths.
| richstokes wrote:
| It garbles up the formatting when importing / exporting.
| You can't collaborate with people on office in a meaningful
| way.
| 1718627440 wrote:
| MSOffice also garbles up the formatting of LibreOffice
| feels. Actually it also garbles up the formatting of
| MSOffice documents. I needed to fix the documents of my
| grandparents. Guess which program just works, and which
| just makes a mess.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Please, it's a functional copy of Office '97, which millions
| (billions?) of people used happily.
|
| The thought of willfully making a child dependent on the
| biggest advertising company on the planet for their documents
| is pretty gross, at least when you have the knowledge not to.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > Please, it's a functional copy of Office '97, which
| millions (billions?) of people used happily.
|
| Exactly. The Office '97 is nearly 30 years old. The world
| has moved on. People like their modern software.
|
| I think LibreOffice appeals to people who think computing
| should have been frozen in time at some arbitrary point in
| the past when they were younger, but it feels stale and old
| to anyone who doesn't have rose-tinted glasses for the
| Office '97 era.
|
| Most people don't want their software to be turned into
| some ideological battle. They just want to get their work
| done and not have to fight the software along the way, so
| they can get back to enjoying their lives.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| There's nothing "modern" needed from a word processor for
| 99% of people. You type into the white rectangle, save,
| and/or print. Three toolbar buttons are needed for that.
|
| An actual useful feature is coediting a document, but has
| downsides, and can be done without the advertising
| company involved.
|
| One should learn how to do it with autonomy early, so not
| dependent their entire lives.
| 1718627440 wrote:
| Sorry I was THAT child in school. While I now definitely have
| some technical knowledge, 10-year-old me, definitely wasn't
| that smart.
|
| This is just not true. LibreOffice is way easier to
| understand as a child, since all the functionality is
| available and discoverable as a menu/tree structure, as
| opposed to the toolbar mess of MSOffice. That might be useful
| for professionals, but when you are a child, the
| unpredictability of these ribbons is just confusing. I just
| want to format this thing. Click on it. Search the ribbon for
| the thing. It's not there. Click slightly differently. Now
| the ribbon header changed. Click that back. Where is it?
| Still not there. Shit, how do I do that? Describe it in the
| browser. I have no clue, how anything is called. When I
| happen to find something, everything is in some foreign
| language where I can only say "apple" and "house" in. Also
| there are tons of advertisements and useless whitespace
| everywhere.
|
| Screw it, I am just opening Notepad (because Notepad++ is not
| installed and I will only figure out how to use portable
| programs from an USB stick in 2.5years) do some drafts and
| finish it at home with a sane office program. In LibreOffice
| at home, I can find the functionality I need independent of
| finding out how I need to click on the item to apply it. Also
| when I click on something, on the left there is a property
| window open, which lists all the basic properties I can
| change.
|
| MSOffice has moat for professionals who already know how to
| use it. It is not friendly for children who have never used a
| word processor.
|
| Converting MSOffice documents to LibreOffice is not that
| hard, especially as a child, since my mates also have not
| used a word processor for decades, and have not used fancy
| formatting. And then you come around the corner with a poster
| designed in Scribus. They are all like: what you can do that?
| And guess with whom, people want to be in a group for a
| presentation, and who people will trust when you tell them to
| please save it in this format?
| sssilver wrote:
| > First and foremost listen to what your child is interested in
|
| A child can only ever have interest in things he or she has
| been exposed to. A good environment will expose them to many
| different things, expanding their menu of interest options.
| hamdingers wrote:
| > Her school/friends use PowerPoint
|
| I'm amazed parents are still paying for MS office licenses...
| Google Docs had completely taken over my college in the late
| 2000s and has been the standard at all the companies I've
| worked at since then. Plus I thought Chromebooks were pretty
| standard in schools now.
|
| What's pushing parents towards a paid product over a free one
| that works better for a student use case?
| Aurornis wrote:
| > What's pushing parents towards a paid product over a free
| one that works better for a student use case?
|
| Office 365 is free for students and has the same
| collaboration features you're describing.
| hamdingers wrote:
| Do they no longer require a school email address with a
| school part of Microsoft's program? Are middle schools
| handing out .edu emails now?
|
| Edit: a web search confirms that they still have those
| requirements so I remain confused
| tayo42 wrote:
| You can do this on windows with wsl now too and have a more
| hackable machine that could dual boot in the future if wsl
| doesn't cut it
| bossyTeacher wrote:
| This. Thank you. Parents tend to project a lot of their fears
| and desires into their child. Your child is not you and will
| never be. They are their own person with their own interests.
| It's fine showing them your interests but forcing them on the
| child is not. A lot of nerd parents believe their kids like
| nerding like they do even when it's not true. Listen without
| judgement and be willing to install Windows if they want it
| rather than judging them for not wanting Linux or not caring
| about the command line or whatever programming language you are
| trying to force on them. You are a parent first. Nerd second.
| haunter wrote:
| An immutable distro, probably Fedora Kinoite
| https://www.fedoraproject.org/atomic-desktops/kinoite/
|
| >In windows when a child goes searching the web for a "movie
| maker for windows" they are going to be in a world of hurt either
| finding expensive commercial options or super scammy sites
| promising the world.
|
| It's funny that you use that example because the state of video
| editors on Windows have never been better from industry standard
| free options (DaVinci Resolve) to FOSS options (KDEnlive,
| Openshot, Shotcut, Avidemux etc).
|
| What you describe is a Google / web / browser problem not an OS
| one
| evolve2k wrote:
| Ah yes sorry the video software was a lazy example but I think
| you get my point. I did see them find confidence in having such
| a deep library of free software to poke at and around with.
|
| Insert slightly more niche need that a kid might have ;)
| 05 wrote:
| There's a Linux version of Resolve that works fine as long as
| you have NVidia and don't mind transcoding m4a audio tracks to
| PCM (some codec licensing issues I think)
| GTP wrote:
| The second hand desktop idea is good. But, if her parents are a
| bit on the nerd side as well, think how much fun they could have
| together with a Raspberry pi! It could be the evolution of
| playing Lego together.
| jamesbelchamber wrote:
| Get them to install WordPress on a different second-hand
| computer. Other things exist to host but WordPress has a lot of
| resources out there, and going from bare metal to WordPress
| introduces a lot of staples of Linux systems administration while
| still being fairly easy to do.
|
| FWIW this is what I recommend to adults wanting to get into the
| industry as well, I would just usually direct them from there
| towards automation, containerisation etc. For kids I would point
| out that they could host other things instead of WordPress, or
| even write their own..
| constantcrying wrote:
| >As a tech parent I think one of the best things I did for both
| my son and daughter was for their first computer to help them to
| build and setup their own Linux computer (It was Ubuntu back then
| but they've both moved themselves to Arch these days).
|
| Of the important things my father, who definitely is a "tech
| parent", did for me _none of them_ have anything to do with him
| teaching me some piece of technology.
|
| To be very frank, if the best thing you have done for your
| children is getting them to use Linux you are a total failure as
| a parent. To be fair to you, I do not believe you at all when you
| say this.
|
| >Now my friend wants the same for their daughter who is 8 years
| old.
|
| One of the actually most valuable thing my father did for me,
| definitely in terms of education outcome and career. Was getting
| me _interested_ and spending time with me and explaining me
| things. The particulars do not matter, I can not remember them.
| It is totally irrelevant whether what Linux distro you use or
| what you teach them. What matters is that the parent is there,
| explains and encourages.
|
| >Linux with free and open software is the goal and focus.
|
| This is about an 8 year old.
| rpdillon wrote:
| > To be very frank, if the best thing you have done for your
| children is getting them to use Linux you are a total failure
| as a parent.
|
| Where are you getting this from?
| constantcrying wrote:
| I paraphrased the part I quoted from the OP: "one of the best
| things I did for both my son and daughter was for their first
| computer to help them to build and setup their own Linux
| compute"
| a022311 wrote:
| > One of the actually most valuable thing my father did for me,
| definitely in terms of education outcome and career. Was
| getting me interested and spending time with me and explaining
| me things. The particulars do not matter, I can not remember
| them. It is totally irrelevant whether what Linux distro you
| use or what you teach them. What matters is that the parent is
| there, explains and encourages.
|
| Yup, that's the essence of parenting and should totally not be
| overlooked!
| miningape wrote:
| > Now my friend wants the same for their daughter who is 8 years
| old.
|
| Be careful - even the most obvious things (to us) won't be to a
| small child. They'll need a bit of a guiding hand and/or someone
| to ask questions to. Linux isn't obvious and I wouldn't be too
| surprised if they run into hard edges at some point (sound driver
| stops working), without someone to actually go to for help the
| computer just becomes a brick.
|
| - Someone who installed Linux on his beat-up laptop when he was
| 12 (*), and faced endless frustration with it. (My parents
| confiscated the laptop because I started hitting it lmao - later
| got a Windows desktop that "just worked")
|
| * - I don't remember if it stopped being able to run windows
| (hardware too weak) or, if the windows partition had corrupted
| itself and I couldn't afford a new copy of windows.
| evolve2k wrote:
| Oh all good points. Sorry to hear of your personal
| frustrations. Yeah agree, I think learning computing is actual
| best done in a little community or even club. You know a few
| parents who care or after school gathering in the computer room
| or library space.
|
| A friend had a cool idea of asking their friends to be their
| child's mentor in certain areas; "I'd like my child to learn
| music taste from you, would u take them under ur wing for
| this?" Then the child could call that "aunty/uncle" for advice;
| same for the tech mentor.
|
| Maybe also Linux has continued to get easier and more reliable
| over the years but yes very valid point; ongoing care and
| support make all the difference like many things.
| miningape wrote:
| Yeah that'd be a really good idea, and don't get me wrong - I
| still think Linux is a really nice idea, and will really give
| the kid an advantage. You just don't want to have the
| opposite effect by having the kid associate the computer with
| pain hahaha
|
| > also Linux has continued to get easier and more reliable
|
| 100% especially if you get some very common hardware it's
| arguably more reliable than windows nowadays lol
| pembrook wrote:
| I'd start by _not setting them up a Linux computer._
|
| In both school and work it's overwhelmingly likely they will
| either be asked to do things in MacOS or Windows only. Make sure
| they're proficient there first.
|
| Linux as a personal OS, regardless of how passionate you are
| about it, is still a hobbyist platform. If your child becomes
| super into computers, then you can help them dive deeper down the
| rabbit hole.
|
| But I wouldn't drop them at the bottom of the rabbit hole
| prematurely. Just because your kid liked listening to an AC/DC
| song doesn't mean they will want to dive immediately into the
| world of Brutal Deathcore.
| mystifyingpoi wrote:
| > is still a hobbyist platform
|
| Even if you consider this to be true (I don't), then... so
| what? They can just learn that there are other operating
| systems with different icons and different clock in the bottom
| right corner. They are kids man, they will learn fast. They
| won't unlearn Windows by using a Linux computer once in a
| while.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| Besides, they would still need to choose between Apple and
| Microsoft. I'd rather teach my kid the essentials of using a
| computer (how to find information, how to create documents,
| how to use tools like Inkscape or Krita). Those skills
| translate to any desktop environment, and most of those tools
| do too. Something like Debian or Ubuntu is just great for
| that, and comes with the benefit of being free. A tool like
| Inkscape (or its FOSS successor) is going to be available in
| twenty years time. How many proprietary apps didn't end up as
| cloud-only subscription-based services?
|
| A lot of software engineers use Linux professionally of
| course (I do), so even that argument for choosing Windows or
| MacOS isn't very strong.
| marttt wrote:
| +1. I set up Fedora, openSUSE and later Arch for our son
| (then 10-11yo). He became instantly curious about typing
| those strange words in terminal (unix heritage all the way
| :), started to check internet availability with 'ping' by
| himself, etc.
|
| Unfortunately, the laptop has a Nvidia GPU, which conflicted
| with some of his games, and the gaming experience was all in
| all not very smooth. Eventually I gave up and went with
| Windows 10 LTSC -- surprisingly usable and bullshit-free (!),
| but, well, I don't think he has ever touched the terminal in
| this Windows system. I'd say after switching to Windows, his
| progress in Actually Learning Stuff About Computers has more
| or less stalled. It's mostly mindless gaming and Youtube
| these days (luckily, he's interested in sports exercises,
| athletes etc - so there's at least some "real-world related"
| information included).
|
| Contemporary Linux can be quite confusing, but it is still
| miles ahead of Windows in encouraging the child's hands-on
| experience and exploration of the system. The GUI
| inconsistencies of current Windows are simply horrible IMO;
| back in the Win2k/XP days, it was actually quite a usable --
| and, hackable! -- system; these days it's just an insanely
| huge, impossible-to-grasp mess. Also, I have yet to find a
| simple, easily understandable and modifiable solution for
| setting daily computer time restrictions for our son on
| Windows -- surprisingly, while there are a gazillion of small
| single-purpose apps in the Windows world, there doesn't
| appear to be too many options for parental control if you
| wish to avoid a Windows account altogether.
| stOneskull wrote:
| antiX would be interesting, getting them used to config files..
|
| maybe a USB stick with a few distros on it, experimenting with
| installing them, including dual-booting.. a mix of distros
| spanning debian/redhat types, and kde/gnome types.. maybe a
| couple of live distros on their own USB stick.. having a virtual
| machine in the main install and learning about installing into
| them..
|
| scratch and python..
| ulfbert_inc wrote:
| >How would u setup a child's first Linux computer?
|
| preloaded with tons of stuff my kid might find cool (depends on
| his or her interests which nobody knows better than I do), and
| with completely disabled internet access if kid will be using it
| without my supervision.
| dsr_ wrote:
| These days, I would start with ZFSBootMenu and Debian Stable.
|
| Why ZFS? So that backups are easy, snapshots are cheap, and when
| the inevitable happens, it takes a few minutes to reboot and roll
| back.
|
| Why Debian Stable? Because it will continue to work and get
| security updates for years, without changing out from underneath
| them without notice.
|
| I would also recommend that any computer for an 8 year old be
| placed in the living room or a similar easy-to-watch-over place.
| Kids need guidance; if they didn't, they wouldn't be kids.
|
| Adblocking, obviously. Everyone needs that.
| evolve2k wrote:
| Agree with having the computer very visible in public space
| like living room. For us this was an additional reason to get a
| desktop as the first computer, it's staying put; no sneaky use
| out of sight as it's stuck where it is. Laptops can come as
| they mature.
| dismalpedigree wrote:
| I can't support Linux as the first computer enough. Both of my
| boys got an Ubuntu desktop for their 8th birthday. I showed them
| some basics. They were motivated to figure it out. They learned
| how things work along the way. Also no scammy popups or
| notifications causing confusion or them granting access "just
| click yes and it goes away".
|
| Ununtu (non root) and timekeeper plus. I work with them when they
| want to install something or do updates.
|
| They have steam, minecraft, OpenRA for games and are happy.
|
| They create music, program arduinos, edit videos they make with
| friends.
| reify wrote:
| I did this two years ago for a 10 year old.
|
| I went with Linux Mint XCFE
|
| The issue for all parents is surely online safety, especially so
| for our youngest.
|
| I managed to prevent the 10 year old acccessing porn and other
| non child friendly sites.
|
| change the browser to the Mullvad Browser or and librewolf
|
| ---------------------
|
| make sure you change the DNS in network manager and the the
| browser.
|
| https://mullvad.net/en/help/dns-over-https-and-dns-over-tls
|
| I used these: family blocks: Ads, Trackers,
| Malware, Adult, Gambling all blocks: Ads, Trackers,
| Malware, Adult, Gambling, Social media
| family.dns.mulvad.net all.dns.mullvad.net
|
| you really dont want an 8 year old on, facebook, X, reddit or any
| of the other trash sites
|
| ----------------------- search engines:
|
| Qwant provides a safe Junior search.
|
| https://www.qwantjunior.com/
|
| -----------------------
|
| It takes time to set up.
|
| once it is set up, become a kid and search for porn, gambling
| etc, to see if you as an adult can find those sites. if you do,
| block them
|
| to block sites just add lines like these to ublock/my filters
| section.
|
| If a child does click on them they are blocked and do not open.
| This also works if the child opens a link from a search engine.
| This way also removes the proceed button that allows you to
| bypass the restriction. facebook.com##^html
| youtube.com##^html threads.com##^html
| instagram.com##^html tiktok.com##^html
| pinterest.com##^html twitter.com##^html
| google.com##^html bing.com##^html reddit.com##^html
| pornhub.com##^html
|
| etc etc
|
| for fun; set up a few aliases, so they can update from the
| terminal.
|
| This is great for kids, typing update into the terminal and
| watching it update && upgrade
| pogue wrote:
| You might look at ZorinOS or Linux Mint. Mint is very easy to
| use, I was able to get my elderly mother to use it. It has a
| software store and built in automatic backups.
|
| Zorin has some built in features to support Windows software
| pretty easily I understand, but I'm not sure if that's through
| wine or a VM or what.
|
| You can test them out in your browser thru the website below and
| see if it fits what you're looking for.
|
| https://distrosea.com/
| lorenzohess wrote:
| Check out Sugar Labs and SugarOS for a basic experience
| DeathArrow wrote:
| I won't give my kids a Linux PC. It will be either Windows or
| macOS, something that just works.
| roscas wrote:
| Hi Nadella, you know that Linux works. While I can't say much
| about macOS, we know very well how Windows works and how it
| fails every day. But the point here is that Linux works and
| better than those two, that someone calls an 'OS' but while
| macOS is based on FreeBSD, Windows by itself it a mess if a OS.
| The point here is just to register that if you give someone a
| Windows and then they learn about Linux, they change. If you
| start with Linux, you will never accept Windwos because of so
| many reasons. And Nadella, we both know how the internet works,
| the internet is Linux.
| bobsmooth wrote:
| This is why I'm giving my kids a windows machine, to keep
| them away from people like you.
| kjellsbells wrote:
| There are both practical and philosophical aspects to this.
| Practically, you might want a somewhat locked down solution with
| the root account locked and the ability to wipe and reinstall
| remotely. Are you and your friend up for that? If kiddo barfs the
| system (they're kids, they will, and it's ok!) your friend is
| gonna need to be up and running quick. PXE boot, kickstart,
| recovery USB stick, etc.
|
| Before investing time you might also get a several distros on
| live USB sticks, boot each one up with the kid and parent, and
| see which one they like best before you install it. Make the kid
| part of the process.
|
| Depending on the age of the child, make the computer
| discoverable. The full app store might be too much for younger
| children (mummy what's a flatpak?) But you might preload a
| "basic" and an "intermediate" app, eg Minecraft and scratch and
| then a (simple!!) Python IDE. And put them in discoverable, kid
| friendly places on the start menu.
|
| Games. Lots of games. Both for their fun value and for teaching
| the motor skills of mouse and keyboard. Curiosity apps like
| Google earth.
|
| For older kids, compatibility with their friends is important so
| make sure that things like LibreOffice, chat etc Just Work. No 13
| year old wants to be the Odd Kid with the Bizarro Parent
| Computer. You can involve them in thinking about what it means to
| have choice in computing and to not just be a consumer, but
| they're still kids facing natural social pressures.
|
| I could go on all day. One last point. After the thing is all set
| up and has been running for a few weeks, check in with the child
| and parent. What do they like? What do they not? And fix those
| issues.
| zahlman wrote:
| > The full app store might be too much for younger children
| (mummy what's a flatpak?)
|
| More to the point, they won't know what to look for, or might
| decide on something inappropriate (or even just unexpectedly
| hard to use).
|
| > eg Minecraft and scratch and then a (simple!!) Python IDE.
|
| If the kid is interested in and ready for creating a program by
| actually typing in text, a plain text editor (that can be Xed
| or Kate or whatever) plus the command line will probably serve
| better. The simplest functional IDE is really the built-in
| IDLE, and it's IMX not pleasant to use by comparison. The
| built-in command-line REPL, on the other hand, improved
| substantially in 3.13.
| em-bee wrote:
| mu editor looks pretty good for kids to learn python.
| unfortunately it is no longer supported.
|
| thonny is an ok replacement, but doesn't feel as kid friendly
| to me.
| jll29 wrote:
| I had a long debate whether a graphical programming
| environment like Scratch was better than typing out a
| classical language such as Python, my friends sided with
| Scratch but I ended up teaching (a bunch of 11-year-olds in a
| school) Python using the pyturtle library for simple
| graphics.
|
| The advantage of Python includes being a "real" language -
| you can literally make money with what you learn. Also, the
| program as textual artifact means in can be read out and
| discussed.
| em-bee wrote:
| without root, how can they mess up the system?
|
| at worst they can mess up their account. then set up a new one.
| i don't see a situation where you would need to reinstall
| remotely.
|
| don't let them choose distros. use the same distro you have, or
| one that you are comfortable supporting. everything else will
| make it harder for you to help them.
| InfamousRece wrote:
| I set up Scratch for my daughter but she ended up mostly playing
| games (Minecraft and Super Tux are her favorite). She did pick up
| some computer skills though. For example she has pretty good
| understanding of files and directories - something that most kids
| struggle with in mobile-first era. I don't allow internet access.
| She is too young for that.
| singleshot_ wrote:
| I'd lock a bunch of parts in a closet and tell the kid he's not
| allowed to use it. Worked pretty well for me.
| Froedlich wrote:
| Please don't inflict Gnome upon them.
| fullstop wrote:
| I made sure to expose my kids to Windows, Mac OS, and Linux. They
| would use Linux for a bit, but ended up on Windows for games and
| Mac OS for media. Over the years, though, as Windows has gone EOL
| on their hardware or they have been forced into Windows 11, Linux
| has come back.
|
| My oldest now has mint on her laptop and Bazzite/W11 dual booting
| her desktop. This was her own choice, and she did the setups
| herself.
|
| My youngest is now almost an adult, but I went through the same
| thing that you are doing now about 15 years ago, before the
| prevalence of smartphones. You have a lot more options now,
| especially with cheap hardware which is well supported by Linux.
| * I picked up a tangerine iMac, and managed to install OS X on
| it. I had to install on a G4 tower first and move the disk over.
| This machine was not online, and it let them play games like
| Alphabet Express, etc, without the slings / arrows of the
| Internet. * The educational thinkpad / lenovo laptops
| were built like tanks and supported Linux well. These were
| online, so I put them behind my own DNS resolver so that I could
| block some websites like Roblox, Discord, etc. * Scratch
| was well received, but you have to watch the online interactions.
|
| When they are older, let them install Linux and give them full
| control and root access. Let them break it and try to fix it --
| if it's too far broken they can just reinstall.
|
| If they're not into tinkering, or not into tinkering yet,
| consider an immutable distribution like Kinoite, Aurora, or
| Bluefin. It is difficult for them to break things
|
| Don't expect them to dive in and never leave the Linux ecosystem,
| an important lesson is "the right tool for the job". If they know
| that it is an option, they can always choose it.
|
| I might be a bit odd in that I've been using Linux as my primary
| desktop since 1997, so the kids have seen it around for their
| entire lives.
| roscas wrote:
| First, it is really nice to see how many people use and know
| Linux and care about their kids being safe and care to teach them
| how to learn computer and programming.
|
| Second, for such young age, you still need to manage the pc. So
| Manjaro with Plasma is my choice.
|
| The software to install is your choice, because it really depends
| on what they will do, but Minecraft and other Minecraf-clones is
| a must and LibreOffice for their works.
|
| Install LibreWolf with uBlock Origin, for their default browser.
| Keep Pi-Hole as the default DNS server and if you or them don't
| have one, buy a Raspberry PI and install one. That is a critical
| step. Best 70 bucks you will ever spend.
| ggiesen wrote:
| I setup Linux Mint on an old HP laptop for my 7 year old. Things
| jist worked out of the gate. She doesn't use it for much else
| other than Roblox (Sober), Minecraft, YouTube, and OBS (to record
| videos - NOT stream), but it's teaching her how to use the
| keyboard and mouse and navigate by using something other than
| touch on a tablet. It also teaches her the basics of window
| managemen: minimizing, maximizing, putting them side-by-side,
| which has been a big adjustment but she's quickly gaining
| proficiency.
| runjake wrote:
| A full KDE install, with all its apps.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| Easy: Steam deck for christmas.
| danielktdoranie wrote:
| Cheap Chromebook. Kids are hard on stuff
| vood wrote:
| This is such a weird thing to read. You try to project your ideas
| on the kids, thinking that is the best thing to do. Let them be.
|
| I learned Linux when I was like 13 or 14 and not because my
| father told me. He didn't know much about computers in early
| 2000/late 90ties.
|
| The curiosity, the desire to learn, the need to set up my own
| isp, the need to start to make money, the curiosity of how html,
| php and other stuff worked let me to Linux.
|
| Teach them how to be curious and feed that curiosity, the rest
| will happen.
|
| And if they choose Mac over Linux, just get of their way,
| otherwise they will rebel.
| sharts wrote:
| Seems like need was a necessary prerequisite.
|
| I'd agree that projecting ideas on to kids isn't the greatest
| thing since it's top-down. But so are most ideas that get
| pushed to kids via media, school, friends, etc. And many of
| those aren't the best either.
| graemep wrote:
| Because children have the necessary skills and understanding to
| choose an OS? Most adults do not!
| encom wrote:
| >You try to project your ideas on the kids
|
| That's what parents do. My dad brought home a C64 back then,
| and a book about BASIC. We didn't have a joystick for it, so we
| built one together. He showed me how a speaker works by taking
| one apart. He taught me about HAM radio. Showed me neat stuff
| he built with electronics. Helped me with my math homework,
| because he was a goddamn math wizard. I watched him disassemble
| our piece of shit washing machine and fix it several times.
| None of it was mandatory or forced or nothing. It was more
| like, hey son take a look at this cool shit. And I thought it
| _was_ cool, and my dad was the coolest dad ever because he knew
| all this stuff!
|
| Sadly, he was taken from us too soon. I often wonder what he'd
| think about the tech and electronics of today.
| mrbuttons454 wrote:
| I started with Red Hat 6 (not RHEL) as a kid, because it was what
| was included with the book on Linux that I was gifted. Some time
| around 2000, I was given some retired beige powermac G3 desktops,
| and I switched to Debian for its PowerPC port. I've been with
| Debian ever since.
|
| So maybe pick something with the realization that they may stick
| with it for decades. :)
|
| I also kept Windows on dual boot so I could play UT99 with
| friends. The social aspect is also important. My son is
| comfortable using our Debian machines, but also has Windows on
| his primary desktop so he can play Roblox and Minecraft Bedrock
| with school friends. I wouldn't want him to lose that.
| a-dub wrote:
| i suppose the ideal would be a working device to browse the
| internet, a usb stick and a pointer to the arch install wiki.
|
| turning things on their head, i got started myself with coherent
| floppies borrowed from a friend and then later slackware linux
| downloaded off some ftp site i read about on usenet.
|
| i have vague memories of downloading mint for the atari st and
| maybe something about it's c compiler, but not much.
| cess11 wrote:
| Debian, XFCE. It'll be easy to use through point-and-click,
| decent hardware support, and the local nerds will almost
| certainly be able to reverse any software issues.
|
| Kids commonly enjoy drawing, so it's likely a good idea to
| install Krita, which I'm not so sure is in the repos and might
| require a bit of imposition of hands.
|
| Libreoffice will be installed by default, one might want to
| switch it out for something else for whatever reason.
| dangus wrote:
| These threads always come across to me as "how do I get my kid to
| be exactly like me and enjoy my interests?"
|
| > Linux with free and open software is the goal and focus.
|
| Notice the goal and focus has nothing to do with the kids and
| their learning and enrichment.
| estebarb wrote:
| The reason I started with Linux when I was 9yo (1999) is because
| we bought a computer and PC Magazine gave away a CD with Corel
| Linux. So I did what obviously must have been done... thankfully
| the disk came damaged, otherwise my lawyer dad would have learned
| the importance of making backups XD.
|
| So, I would suggest: try to get a throwaway computer, give the
| kid it and an USB with Linux and let them alone. Do not force
| anything, just give them the tools and a gentle push. Let
| curiosity take the wheel and be prepared to answer a lot of
| questions.
| rossdavidh wrote:
| My main advice here is that you need to tailor this to the
| individual child. What will turn one kid on to free computing,
| will cause another to think of Linux forever after as "that
| annoying thing which I was forced to use, when I didn't have a
| choice in the matter", and that's probably the opposite of what
| you want; it will associate "Linux" in their mind with not having
| a choice. What is this 8-year old girl interested in?
| jefc1111 wrote:
| It's so weird to me that this comment is so rare in these
| discussions. Linux / not Linux ... depends on the kid and what
| their interests are. I have two kids, one of whom I have
| exposed to Linux as I figured they'd get a kick out of it
| (which they did). But for the other I can tell they wouldn't
| really care much about the OS.
|
| Same goes for adults. I'd advocate for Linux to some of my
| friends & family but not others.
|
| Kids are all individuals!! Parenting should be flexible and
| personal.
| dayvid wrote:
| We were hacking library computers as a kid to access blocked
| sites. If you put a good enough reward behind almost any OS a kid
| will figure it out
| chasd00 wrote:
| My 13 year old came to me asking for Linux because of steam. He
| had heard of people moving to steam on Linux instead of upgrading
| to windows11. So if your child is into gaming show them steam on
| Linux and at least they'll use it to play games. Then from there
| you can ease them into Linux itself while having steam+games to
| keep up the usage and interest.
|
| Just take it slow, I pushed the console a little too hard on my
| 13 year old. He now refers to it as the "black box of despair"
| hah.
| thatjoeoverthr wrote:
| I set up one with Ubuntu for my seven year old.
|
| 1. It's in the living room next to an SNES and an N64.
|
| 2. I showed her vscode, did a short HTML tutorial, and printed
| out some HTML cheat sheet.
|
| 3. Some modest games.
|
| 4. No YouTube or social.
|
| Most of the buzzwords are not important (power, freedom) but I
| want something "unrefined". That is, a little bit of the 1980s,
| 90s "neat creative toy" experience but nothing with a Recommender
| Engine. No "digital crack".
|
| As an entertainment product, it's definitely 100% inferior to
| modern software, but you actually don't want it to "win" a
| contest against:
|
| 1. yourself
|
| 2. other children
|
| 3. healthy activities
|
| Recommenders and modern games are really strong. Do not invite
| strong, self-interested parties to compete for your child's time
| and life against yourself, their siblings, their friends, their
| neighborhood and their own developing bodies.
|
| Common pattern: Wake up; play one cup of Mario Kart 64; leave it
| behind and go outside for ten hours. Or play it together. A cute
| little nice thing in its little proper place.
| whattheheckheck wrote:
| Outside like the back yard? Where does your 7 year go for 10
| hrs?
| the_dude_ wrote:
| Not sure why a full desktop required, perhaps a Raspberry pi 5
| 16gb, the pi 500+ or any other mini pc or a cheap chromebook
| would be enough to start, obviously depends on the kid's
| interests
| farmeroy wrote:
| We set my son up with a linux computer when he was 9 - he was
| always dragging broken electronics home off the street, so when
| he found an old beat up thinkpad we managed to get it running
| with a little tenderness and linux mint! He's been on linux ever
| since, constantly upgrading computers by getting second hand/free
| laptops (it helps that his uncle works in IT and can grab a nice
| Dell or two now and again). It's always fun to put linux on a new
| machine! In any case, for him it has been great - the desktops
| are super customizable. Like everyone who gets into linux, it's
| been fun for him to install pretty TUIs and silly command line
| interfaces (bob ross quotes was a recent one). There are so many
| fun hacking tutorials on youtube. Lots of hours on kdenlive and
| blender. When he was younger he LOVED minetest, which is a
| hackable version of minecraft. Some other commenters have said
| the libreoffice is a big issue for people making the switch.
| Obviously not a big deal for an 8 year old! But my kid is about
| to go into highschool now. His school uses google classroom for
| everything so it's still not an issue. so many games that kids
| play are just in the browser? thankfully my son thinks fortnite
| and roblox are stupid ways to spend his time. it seems like if
| they really _need_ to _game_ its another issue, but that
| shouldn't be a problem for 8 year olds?
|
| There are have been so many benefits. He's been a great touch
| typer from a young age (compared to his peers especially, who
| mostly used phones). I mean, being on linux exposes you to using
| the command line, which makes you _want_ to hack, so he's learned
| about network. You also avoid the barrage of ads that microsoft
| is currently assaulting the rest of the world with in their start
| menu.
| akho wrote:
| I have a 9-yo. We experimented with time limits &c, but that just
| leads to endless discussions on the size and applicability if
| thise limits.
|
| Now he has a mostly-airgapped Thinkpad (with music, kiwix, music-
| experimantation stuff, programming things, and onlyoffice), and
| doesn't know the ipad's passcode.
|
| The laptop has nftables set up so that only an ssh connection to
| my laptop works, which I use to update it, add content, and
| occasionally unblock it, when necessary.
| ThinkBeat wrote:
| I wonder at what age they start getting upset that they dont have
| what all the other kids have. The peer pressure on conformity I
| think is still strong. thought not explicitly stated.
|
| I have seen older children cry that they dont have an iPhone or
| they dont have the latest iPhone, or in a different region, that
| they dont have Android and of course the latest Android
|
| These were older than 7 to be sure, but not sure when it starts.
|
| you can set your kid up to be independent and a FOSS influencer
| but I dont think that always works.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| > I have seen older children cry that they dont have an iPhone
| or they dont have the latest iPhone, or in a different region,
| that they dont have Android and of course the latest Android
|
| Just to be clear the solution to this is not to buy them the
| latest phone every year. You're describing consumerism, not
| parenting
| simpaticoder wrote:
| The big question for me is how to give a child an experience that
| builds an accurate mental model of what a computer is and what
| software is. This was easier back in the day (like, Apple IIe
| times) when you ran one program at a time and if you didn't
| interact with it, it sat there, inert. (Yes I realize there is
| always some steady-state physical process going on, e.g. the
| pulsing of the clock-crystal, refreshing DRAM, etc. But I'm
| talking about software.) There is something beautiful
| and....solid about running a single process running in immediate
| mode on a simple CPU.
|
| Contrast this with a modern experience. There are hundreds of
| inscrutable processes running, constantly talking to the network,
| to disk, doing who-knows-what. What does "software" mean on a
| modern machine? Software runs the gamut from a command line one-
| shot tool, to an invisible daemon, to a desktop app with a
| window, or multiple windows, to something hosted in a browser, to
| something hosted by something hosted in a browser. How can you
| build a clear mental model amidst so much noise, clutter and
| (both UI and runtime) heterogeneity?
|
| In the same why "phylogeny recapitulates ontogeny" I'd argue the
| correct computer for a kid is a single process box with either
| hard-coded programs or a floppy-like experience (e.g. SD card
| "floppies). Given all of this, the perfect kids computer system
| is an HDMI TV dongle that runs an Apple IIe emulator, Logo, and a
| handful of retro games, and an SD card slot for other programs
| (prepped by the parent). No wifi or internet, bluetooth for
| connecting a keyboard, and no mouse.
| m01 wrote:
| Get the Raspberry Pi 5 with 8GB (or more if you care). Get the
| RasPiKey [1] for faster storage (compared to SD cards), without
| needing to get an SSD. Just use the Raspberry Pi OS.
|
| Re: software setup, curriculum etc.. there are so many resources
| that target the Raspberry Pi that you can choose something that
| the child finds interesting.
|
| You can do a desktop computer build if/when they outgrow the
| Raspberry Pi.
|
| [1] https://www.uugear.com/product/raspikey-plug-and-play-
| emmc-m...
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| I would install Mint with XFCE so the kid can learn what a
| traditional GUI looks like, and the benefits.
|
| Assist them with installing the interesting programs, from
| Inkscape to Celestia to Geany and Python.
|
| But first you'll have to decide what to do about youtube. Most
| kids won't do anything else once they find it. Keep them away
| from adults as well. Probably no internet at first.
| scarmig wrote:
| For my toddler's first desktop, I started with a simple
| collaborative setup project. Nothing at all fancy: had them write
| a scheduler, MMU, etc. Holding off on network stack and drivers
| until they're a late teen, though.
| PizzaBorsch wrote:
| Well, there is nothing at all wrong with those projects, but
| perhaps start at the lowest level first, such as building a
| bootloader. Being able to boot hardware using your own code is
| a tremendously valuable lesson for a toddler to learn.
| a022311 wrote:
| Totally agree, but if you don't teach them how to build a
| simple CPU, RAM and storage device first (possibly also
| network card), the experience is quite lacking.
| graemep wrote:
| For a child that age I would definitely install some educational
| software. GCompris and KGeography for a start.
|
| I would look for things that fit the child's interests rather
| than deciding a "mini-curriculum" in advance.
| 7e wrote:
| This reeks of a weird parent trying to make their kids weird.
| Kids can learn so much more about computers when not wasting time
| yak shaving some Linux stupidity.
| HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
| I really don't see the value of getting a child started with
| Linux unless you are trying to push them into direction of being
| a developer, but even there I'm not sure how much sense that
| makes here in 2025 (from multiple perspectives).
|
| If you want an alternative to Windows, then a Chromebook might be
| a good choice since this is what they will probably be using in
| K-12 education, and there are plenty of free online tools for
| learning to program, doing 3-D modelling, etc if they are really
| into it.
| Velocifyer wrote:
| i would teach them to use arch linux.
| mythrwy wrote:
| Same way you teach kids to swim! Drop them into run level 3 and
| show them the man pages.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| Their first "Linux" computers were Android (that's based on
| Linux, right?) and Chromebook.
|
| I honestly don't know if they've ever touched a PC or Mac,
| (except for the ones we, as parents, have.) They learn how to use
| them in school.
|
| If they're interested in geeky stuff, I'll show them how to use
| them. Otherwise, it's important to recognize that "Linux" is
| often a combination of politics and hobby.
| deafpolygon wrote:
| don't give your kid sudo
| hyperman1 wrote:
| My son has his own linux account. He made an absolute mess of
| everything he could drag around on the desktop, just for fun.
| Every time I'm in there, the KDE start menu pops out of some
| other weird place, not even at the border of a screen anymore.
| Plus, we seem to have some kind of mass xeyes invasion going on
| there. It makes troubleshooting anything interesting, at least.
|
| He recently learned there are other computers running Windows,
| which he hates because of the ads.
| a022311 wrote:
| I really like the idea and I wish I was introduced to Linux too
| as a kid! (although I did eventually get into it myself when I
| was 13)
|
| Linux has a really steep learning curve for people who have only
| learned Windows at school or are used to the touch-based
| interface Chromebooks and smartphones/tablets provide. It can
| certainly be overwhelming for a kid who just wants to work on a
| school project or game with friends, so you'll need to maintain a
| delicate balance if you try to make this work.
|
| If I was considering this for my kids, I'd try to give them
| something as friendly as possible. No terminals or writing code
| at all, unless they actually get interested and start asking you
| about how the computer works. Sit down together and teach them
| how to responsibly use the internet, protect their privacy and
| find free software.
|
| Try to make the experience interactive and let them know that
| they can customize it however they want and help them do so. I
| always found Windows and macOS very limiting in that sense as a
| child and my only options were downloading sketchy apps or
| writing my own terrible scripts (I remember trying to animate my
| wallpaper on Windows with Python...).
|
| It's also very important to ensure they're covered for schoolwork
| and any gaming needs. I won't recommend Libreoffice here, Office
| online or in a VM will be a much better experience and Proton is
| amazing at gaming on Linux these days (although if you've
| selected low-end hardware it may be worth considering a dedicated
| game console).
|
| I generally think most people will appreciate Linux if they give
| it a try. People just tend to be negative because they've been
| taught to stay inside the closed ecosystem of big OS vendors and
| closed, user-hostile software. Once you experience freedom,
| there's no going back!
|
| Good luck with your project!
|
| EDIT: An important downside I forgot to mention is that there is
| practically no way to set screen-time or app limits, or block
| certain websites which is something important to have at least in
| the beginning when teaching responsible computer use. For those
| who have tried this, what's your approach?
| BrokenCogs wrote:
| I'm also interested in how to better control how my child uses
| the Linux computer, particularly how to restrict which programs
| and sites they use without stifling their creativity and
| discovery.
| zeckalpha wrote:
| I would ensure it is easily reimageable and restorable to a known
| good state.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-11-09 23:01 UTC)