[HN Gopher] Firefox Forcing LLM Features
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Firefox Forcing LLM Features
        
       Author : birdculture
       Score  : 77 points
       Date   : 2025-11-08 18:51 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (equk.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (equk.co.uk)
        
       | empiko wrote:
       | Where can I find these LLM features in Firefox?
        
         | johnh-hn wrote:
         | In your address bar type: about:config
         | 
         | You can search for the configuration options mentioned in the
         | article (e.g. browser.ml.enable) in there.
        
         | smir wrote:
         | Last update has these features in side bar along with side bar
         | tabs, confirmed on windows but couldn't see those on arch with
         | sway wm
        
         | Retr0id wrote:
         | Right click -> "Ask an AI chatbot"
        
       | BolexNOLA wrote:
       | >Alternatives # There are a few projects that are forks of
       | firefox with these features removed.
       | 
       | >I would think most non technical users would just use a
       | different browser.
       | 
       | I would think they would list one or two of them under the
       | "alternatives" section...?
        
         | MrAlex94 wrote:
         | Waterfox (which I maintain), Tor Browser, Mull (based on Tor)
         | and I assume LibreWolf as well?
        
         | dr_pardee wrote:
         | https://www.waterfox.net/
        
         | procaryote wrote:
         | LibreWolf seems to default most of these off.
         | extensions.ml.enabled defaults to true, but the others look
         | good
         | 
         | LibreWolf in general is a browser you need to enable things if
         | you want them rather than have to disable spyware like for
         | mainline firefox
        
       | nrclark wrote:
       | Mozilla sure is going out of their way to alienate their
       | remaining users. This is going to be Pocket 2.0.
       | 
       | Who asked for this? Who wants it? Certainly not the Linux / open-
       | source crowd, and they're just about the only ones who are
       | keeping Firefox alive.
       | 
       | If there's anybody from Mozilla or the Firefox dev team in this
       | thread, I'd be interested to hear the thinking behind this
       | addition.
        
         | noir_lord wrote:
         | It annoys me that I have to disable this alongside the
         | telemetry I already had to disable (and their Home page crap).
         | 
         | Telemetry should always be _opt in_ not _opt out_ - I don 't
         | care how you justify it but especially I don't care when you've
         | marketed yourself with "Firefox is built with privacy and
         | protection as the default."[1]
         | 
         | [1] https://www.firefox.com/en-US/user-privacy/
         | 
         | When it comes to on by default - If what you are doing amounts
         | to "I Am Altering the Deal, Pray I Don't Alter It Any Further."
         | then you might have to ask yourself whether you should be doing
         | it.
        
         | dzikimarian wrote:
         | I want this. I'm Firefox user for years btw.
         | 
         | Most prominent thing is chat in sidebar. It's iframe + a few
         | shortcuts. Optional, harmless, using zero resources. Actually
         | quite convenient.
         | 
         | Another is perplexity being one of the search providers. This
         | is literally config not code. I wonder how many people actually
         | removed or even looked at the list of the default search
         | providers before that.
         | 
         | I think only real one is ml naming for tabs. Just meh.
         | 
         | Honestly people who deny any usefulness of AI are getting
         | dangerously close to flat-earthers by now.
        
           | nativeit wrote:
           | Any reason why extensions couldn't fill these niches?
        
             | dzikimarian wrote:
             | Personally I don't care - it could be first-party
             | extension.
             | 
             | But you could bring up the same argument about vertical
             | tabs, tab groups, Firefox Sync or many other things that
             | interfere with the browser on much deeper level than
             | shortcut to open page in the sidebar.
             | 
             | Is there argument to single out this specific feature apart
             | from "AI bad"?
        
           | malnourish wrote:
           | Agreed; I wish they would expose how to set your own chat
           | provider more easily than about:config, but the sidebar chat
           | is easily my most used unique "UX" Firefox feature.
           | 
           | I'd like to see (opt-in) automatic grouping. The kinda-sorta
           | grouping it does still requires you to manually engage with
           | it.
        
           | t_mann wrote:
           | > Honestly people who deny any usefulness of AI are getting
           | dangerously close to flat-earthers by now.
           | 
           | What made you jump to that conclusion? My guess about someone
           | who's using a non-mainstream browser and figuring out how to
           | configure it to their liking is that they're likely also
           | using AI in more ways than the standard Chat-Webinterface, eg
           | Agents, CLI tools, MCP,... To give an analogy, rolling your
           | eyes over brainrot memes isn't denying the usefulness of
           | smartphones or messengers either. The underlying sentiment is
           | being critical of things that get pushed down our throats
           | through A/B-optimized patterns that ultimately serve other
           | interests than your own, profits or darker.
        
             | dzikimarian wrote:
             | Making a very simple feature and enabling it, with option
             | to disable it is no pushing down the throat, nor dark
             | pattern.
             | 
             | Please don't compare it to Google or Microsoft products
             | that give you "Enable now/Remind later" or just no option
             | at all.
        
           | tolciho wrote:
           | > Honestly people who deny any usefulness of AI are getting
           | dangerously close to flat-earthers by now.
           | 
           | This is a remarkably useless argument; "any" could be
           | anything whatsoever, for example that the fuzzy logic of some
           | prior AI craze ended up in certain rice cookers, while
           | ignoring that the remaining
           | 99.8881118881118883479075520881451666355133056640625 (or so)
           | percent of AI is some combination of grift, wishful thinking,
           | or both.
        
           | andrew_lettuce wrote:
           | Way to move the goalposts. The argument is not about the
           | usefulness, it's about baked-in on by default features for
           | what are obvious extension workflows. About the only
           | marketing advantage FF has at this point is customizable and
           | lack of dirty tricks. Mozilla seems confusingly desperate to
           | sell out here asap
        
             | dzikimarian wrote:
             | Why this is obvious extension workflow and vertical tabs or
             | FF Sync aren't?
             | 
             | How do you propose they finance development if we consider
             | simple integrations with zero privacy or customization
             | impact "selling out"?
        
               | BrenBarn wrote:
               | Those are also obvious extension workflow.
               | 
               | They would need to finance a lot less development if they
               | stopped changing things and just worked on maintaining a
               | limited core functionality including a nice extension
               | system. That's it. Most of their "development" over the
               | last 10 years has been a total waste of time.
        
               | dzikimarian wrote:
               | You really think these things are requiring significant
               | development budget, compared to keeping up with things
               | like wasm, webgpu, grid/flex layouts?
               | 
               | Can you really say with a straight face, that not doing
               | vertical tabs or chat shortcut would allow them to
               | operate on much smaller budget?
        
         | yreg wrote:
         | It should be opt-in to avoid alienating users.
         | 
         | That being said, I'm a FF user interested in exploring what LLM
         | features in webbrowsers could bring. I would hate it if lack of
         | them would make me switch to chromium-based browsers. So I'm
         | happy Mozilla is exploring these.
        
         | Ukv wrote:
         | > Certainly not the Linux / open-source crowd
         | 
         | At least the local AI features, being able to translate or
         | summarize a page without sending it off to Google, seem like
         | they'd appeal to this crowd the most.
         | 
         | I don't really understand the article's complaints (like "high
         | cpu & ram usage with firefox local ai features" and "forcing
         | [...] without asking the user") when to my understanding
         | they're something you have to intentionally decide to use and
         | are not using any resources otherwise - unless there's some
         | feature I've missed.
        
           | HappyPanacea wrote:
           | > At least the local AI features, being able to translate or
           | summarize a page without sending it off to Google, seem like
           | they'd appeal to this crowd the most.
           | 
           | Yes I would like more local translation support! (Faster,
           | better, more languages, sometimes it fails on mobile for
           | unknown reasons). Also Firefox history could use refresh
           | (like suggested here
           | https://community.brave.app/t/improvements-for-browser-
           | histo... and 5 can be AI enhanced)
        
           | jchw wrote:
           | Local translation, sure. Summarization? No... For one thing,
           | I don't use _anything_ for that (does Google have a
           | "Summarize This" feature now?) But unless I missed it, I
           | don't even think this article disables the local translation
           | feature. I'm pretty sure that is controlled by
           | `browser.translations.enable`.
        
           | 0manrho wrote:
           | Any AI features, helpful or no, seems to me like something
           | that should exist in the form of an extension, not baked into
           | the browser. Or, if baked in, should be opt in, not opt out
           | by default, as regardless of where you fall on it, AI is a
           | divisive topic and people have strong opinions on it.
           | Especially the people in Firefoxes remaining small audience
           | that tend to be more technically literate and
           | privacy/security conscious.
           | 
           | I have no problem with it announcing new features and asking
           | if I wish to enable them after an update, but I'd really
           | rather prefer it not to force enable new features (regardless
           | of proximity/relevance to AI) whether it tells me about them
           | up front - and especially don't want it to if they aren't
           | even notifying me of it.
        
         | rc_kas wrote:
         | Yeah. As a Mozilla/FF user for as long as I have memory ...
         | unwanted "features" are about the only way to get me stop using
         | this browser.
        
         | charcircuit wrote:
         | >Certainly not the Linux / open-source crowd
         | 
         | Appealing to that crowd is not big enough to grow it's market
         | share from 2%.
        
           | do_not_redeem wrote:
           | Appealing to that crowd is how they grew their market share
           | the first time around. The techies came first, trust was
           | established, and then they recommended it to everyone else.
           | 
           | Do you really think AI features are going to move the needle
           | here? Is your grandma going to think "Wow, Firefox can
           | summarize my emails!" and switch web browsers?
        
             | fabrice_d wrote:
             | Most of Firefox user base has always been on Windows, not
             | Linux. What OS do you think the "techies" that promoted
             | Firefox to replace IE in the first place were running?
        
               | do_not_redeem wrote:
               | Sure maybe 20 years ago. But back then Linux's userbase
               | was also on Windows, because desktop Linux hadn't really
               | become usable yet. I think nowadays Firefox's marketshare
               | is a lot higher on e.g. Ubuntu (where it's the default)
               | than it is on Windows (where Edge is the default).
        
             | charcircuit wrote:
             | Optimal marketing strategies change over time. What may
             | have worked 20 years, may not be the right approach today.
             | Many businesses struggle with this. They remember what they
             | did to initial gain success, but that marketing route is no
             | longer effective so they fail to figure out how to reach
             | new people and eventually die.
             | 
             | >Do you really think AI features are going to move the
             | needle here?
             | 
             | It's better than doing nothing at least.
        
         | scuff3d wrote:
         | I switched to Vivaldi because I was fed up with Firefox.
         | 
         | I'm not thrilled it isn't open source. But it works, it has the
         | best out of the box experience I've seen in any browser, and
         | they don't shove AI features in my face.
        
       | lemoncookiechip wrote:
       | They're all easily disabled in the GUI itself. The article is
       | exaggerating, the closest argument is that it enables itself by
       | default when it first updated which is fair, but they're easy to
       | disable within the menu itself.
        
         | skydhash wrote:
         | Anything enabled by default without prompting in an update is
         | usually against the user.
        
         | skywhopper wrote:
         | How? about:config doesn't count as "the GUI", imo.
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | Where? I just looked in Settings.
        
           | input_sh wrote:
           | Right click on the icon - remove.
           | 
           | The same goes for right clicking on the page - ask AI -
           | remove.
        
       | MrAlex94 wrote:
       | I understand why Mozilla have started implementing these
       | features, it seems to have more mass market appeal than not -
       | look at how popular "AI" powered browsers have become.
       | 
       | But boy does it not add extra effort removing these features
       | every time there's a new roll-out and it's not done the best way
       | IMO. I feel as if these features would go down better if Mozilla
       | actually notified the user that they're available and then
       | offered whether to enable them or not (could have them enabled by
       | default for new users). That way you're still giving a choice,
       | but in a more respectful manner.
       | 
       | If anyone is interested I've gutted all the more obscene stuff
       | out of Waterfox and have instead left the useful ones such a ML
       | translation, which is opt-in.
       | 
       | Related: I feel like onboarding is a lost art, more software
       | should bring back software wizards and UI tours. Feels like you
       | somehow have to intuitively know how something works (unlikely)
       | or do a web search on how to use everything instead of having it
       | shown to you nicely.
        
         | BrenBarn wrote:
         | So true about onboarding. The trend towards trying to make all
         | interfaces simple and immediately accessible has led to lots of
         | functionality being deeply hidden. Of course you don't want the
         | interface to be insanely complicated but you also don't want to
         | make it so simple it's limiting.
         | 
         | Sort of related, after reading this I went and checked the
         | Waterfox reddit and saw some people complaining about recent
         | changes. I agree with a person there that one of the most
         | important things is not changing. One of the reasons I use
         | Waterfox is to not be subject to the caprices of Mozilla. I
         | just want the same interface I've been using since back in the
         | days of like Firefox 4.0. If there are changes, they can be
         | introduced in an opt-in, reversible way as you suggest. But the
         | default assumption should be "don't break users' workflows by
         | changing behavior".
         | 
         | I appreciate all you do with Waterfox! I've been using it for
         | years now.
        
         | anonymouskimmer wrote:
         | > Related: I feel like onboarding is a lost art, more software
         | should bring back software wizards and UI tours.
         | 
         | Yes, please! We use Google's online office programs at work and
         | every time it has so far popped up a notification about a new
         | feature I immediately dismissed it by the act of actually doing
         | the work I opened the tab to do. Then I have no idea how to
         | find out what that feature was again, as the popup notification
         | was dismissed.
        
           | knollimar wrote:
           | Seriously. I'm the type of person to read the what's new, but
           | they're temporally placed for minimal engagement with them
        
           | dehrmann wrote:
           | I'm torn because I probably do want to know what new,
           | relevant features are, but I opened the app for a reason, so
           | I want the tour to get out of my way so I can do my work.
        
         | themafia wrote:
         | > look at how popular "AI" powered browsers have become.
         | 
         | Is there an active user market for browsers? If there isn't
         | then this analysis is useless.
        
         | scuff3d wrote:
         | > ...look at how popular "AI" powered browsers have become.
         | 
         | What? I have yet to meet a single person who has any interest
         | in "AI powered browsers"
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | That's disappointing. If they can do EME-free builds, they can do
       | LLM-free builds. This isn't a 'tricky issue'
       | 
       | https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/05/reconciling-mozillas-missi...
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | The built in LLM translation is great. I'm leaving that enabled.
       | It's useful and it's a perfect application for local LLM to be
       | better than the equivalent corporate services.
       | 
       | I disable a ton in default FF and even run the unbranded versions
       | so that it's not trialware (FF branded builds all expire when
       | their baked in add-ons CA TLS certs expire). But the LLM
       | translation? That's finally a good feature.
       | 
       | It isn't clear what browser.ml.chat and browser.ml.pageAssist are
       | associated with in terms of features. Does anyone know? I tried
       | disabling all shown in the write-up and local LLM translation
       | still seems to work so I assume it's something else.
        
         | reyqn wrote:
         | The built-in translation is not LLM, it's NMT
        
       | asciimov wrote:
       | What is your favorite Firefox alternative?
        
         | brazukadev wrote:
         | Floorp is good so far switched without regrets
        
         | aprilnya wrote:
         | Zen revolutionized my workflow!
        
         | nativeit wrote:
         | Good coffee and/or long walks.
        
         | Barrin92 wrote:
         | I've been using Vivaldi alongside Firefox anyways for the edge
         | cases where non-chromium browsers refused to work but I've
         | switched fully now because of the latest round of AI crap. At
         | least Vivaldi has explicitly committed themselves to keep it
         | out of the browser.
         | 
         | https://vivaldi.com/blog/keep-exploring/
        
       | briga wrote:
       | There's a checkbox on whether you want to use it or not in the
       | settings page, does this not change these settings?
       | 
       | I don't feel opposed to them changing the browser in principle--
       | certainly there have been many improvements to web browsers over
       | the years. Is privacy the concern here?
        
         | johnh-hn wrote:
         | If the checkbox you're referring to is the "Use AI to suggest
         | tabs and a name for tab groups" one, then I can't see what
         | setting it changes. It's not the browser.ml.enable flag. I
         | tried unchecking it, restarting the browser, and that flag was
         | unaffected. This is in version 144.0.2.
         | 
         | Searching for "AI" shows one other setting: "Quickly access
         | bookmarks, tabs from your phone, AI chatbots, and more without
         | leaving your main view." But I'd already disabled that
         | apparently. Despite that, there are plenty of flags that were
         | enabled mentioned in the article.
        
         | dawnerd wrote:
         | Last I checked there wasn't and you still had to fiddle with a
         | few about:config options to actually turn off all the ai stuff.
         | I would be fine with it if it was just a settings page rather
         | than hidden settings.
        
       | web3-is-a-scam wrote:
       | They're opt-out and can be disabled in the settings or fully
       | disabled in about:config. Definitely annoying but not enough to
       | make me switch to a Chromium based browser.
        
         | JadeNB wrote:
         | > They're opt-out and can be disabled in the settings or fully
         | disabled in about:config.
         | 
         | Any setting where there's a difference between "disabled" and
         | "fully disabled" is user hostile. And, for a company that
         | advertises itself as all about respecting the user, Mozilla
         | sure does love their user-hostile decisions.
        
       | Lerc wrote:
       | This should not be considered an LLM issue. It's a user
       | experience issue.
       | 
       | Mozilla has made changes that happened by default before. Often I
       | have had to find the setting to put it back to how I wanted. I
       | remember when it moved the URL bar to the bottom.
       | 
       | I don't think it is always an easy call to make. Tabs were a
       | significant user experience improvement, but hiding it behind an
       | opt-in would have limited it to people who knew about it.
       | 
       | I use Firefox as main on desktop and mobile. I have noticed
       | messages on upgrade pointing to LLM features. I haven't engaged
       | with them an from thereon haven't noticed any change because of
       | them.
       | 
       | Saying there are reports of excessive memory or CPU use isn't
       | terribly useful without references to those reports. One such
       | report posted on HN was shown to have been unrelated to the LLM.
       | 
       | Are there any reports actually showing degradation because of
       | LLMs rather than post hoc ergo propter hoc?
        
         | themafia wrote:
         | > This should not be considered an LLM issue.
         | 
         | LLMs are garbage and they add nothing to the browsing
         | experience.
         | 
         | > Are there any reports actually showing degradation because of
         | LLMs rather than post hoc ergo propter hoc?
         | 
         | You can control this option with a setting. It seems like it
         | would be really really easy to just test this. As a result I
         | can't see any reason to doubt this by default or apply a
         | legalistic evidentiary standard when considering it.
        
           | celsoazevedo wrote:
           | .
        
             | reyqn wrote:
             | And is also not using an LLM. It's neural machine
             | translation.
        
           | skybrian wrote:
           | It's easy to test, therefore there is no need to test it? I
           | don't see how that follows. If you haven't tested it then you
           | haven't tested it.
        
         | dathinab wrote:
         | > Are there any reports actually showing degradation because of
         | LLMs rather than post hoc ergo propter hoc?
         | 
         | AFIK no
         | 
         | nearly all AI features only do any compute if you explicitly
         | ask them to do stuff
         | 
         | the only exception is that when you create a tab group (and
         | only then!) it will auto recommend a name. And while I don't
         | find a very useful for me (and I use tab groups a ton) I also
         | have observed that non technical users get confused with
         | unnamed tab groups and the UI around them so I really
         | understand why they do that. Also while it's "technically" a
         | LLM it's tiny and fast to run and could also have been
         | implemented with just embeddings at a slightly loss of quality
         | (and again only runs if you create a tab group and not at any
         | other time and not if you computer has less then 3GiB of RAM
         | etc. etc.(yes FF disables AI features on very low RAM devices
         | AFIK))
         | 
         | Put people hear AI think LLM get angry and stop thinking.
         | 
         | Or considering that maybe a non negligible amount of people
         | outside of their bubble want exactly that and might leave your
         | browser if you don't supply that.
        
       | impossiblefork wrote:
       | As long as it's local I think it's okay.
       | 
       | I also think that we in the long run will probably let machines
       | do most tedious browsing for us-- digesting ad-ridden websites,
       | digesting interfaces. The LLM navigates the actual web, presented
       | to maximize revenue and maximize user engagement, time spent on
       | the website etc., but we only see actual content, carefully
       | arranged to be as comprehensible as possible, and if we want to
       | communicate with somebody through a website controlled by others
       | we formulate the message and the LLM submits it.
        
         | zmmmmm wrote:
         | Is it local though?
         | 
         | I'm so confused, they have a whole page that starts with how
         | they run everything on device[0]. But the page ends telling you
         | how great it is that you can choose your AI service which then
         | leads to a page where ... all the options are hosted AI
         | providers and half the page is about you have to read their
         | terms of service and they all invade your privacy[1]. I
         | stupidly enabled Gemini at some point and now there's no
         | obvious way in the UI to disable it. I can only switch to a
         | different hosted service provider.
         | 
         | I searched in settings for AI, model, LLM, nada.
         | 
         | Whatever good things they did here they totally screwed up the
         | comms and UI execution of it.
         | 
         | [0] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/firefox-ai/ai-browser-
         | fe...
         | 
         | [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/ai-chatbot
        
       | f33d5173 wrote:
       | >I would think most non technical users would just use a
       | different browser.
       | 
       | I would think most users would ignore the features they don't
       | like? Idgi
        
       | nerevarthelame wrote:
       | Honestly, I haven't even noticed LLM features in the desktop
       | version. But I found it really annoying in the mobile (iOS) app.
       | There's a "Summarize Page" feature that's adjacent to "Find in
       | Page." It's easy to mis-tap when you're just trying to search for
       | a term on the page. It's also activated by the shake gesture,
       | which can happen accidentally.
       | 
       | Three dots -> Settings -> Page Summaries to disable that.
        
       | eahm wrote:
       | Sharing my configs, hopefully they'll be helpful to someone. I
       | don't even use Firefox but I keep the settings updated (prefs.js
       | can be modified by Mozilla/Firefox, user.js does not change).
       | 
       | NOTE: Some settings might block too much, edit and use as you
       | please.
       | 
       | https://rentry.co/browserconfigs /
       | https://rentry.org/browserconfigs
        
       | catach wrote:
       | I've found the "Copy text from image" menu command to be useful
       | from time to time, and the features I'm not interested in seemed
       | easy to turn off/dismiss/ignore?
        
       | zkmon wrote:
       | Wondering how these chatbot links in the sidebar are any
       | different from bookmarks.
        
       | threeducks wrote:
       | I think that (optional) AI features are fine, but the model
       | selection only shows the big providers by default. You can enable
       | local LLM support under about:config ->
       | browser.ml.chat.hideLocalhost (set to false). It will check
       | localhost:8080, which is not a great choice for a fixed port. I'd
       | prefer if I could just point it at any OpenAI-compatible
       | endpoint. Either way, seems to work well when serving a local
       | model with llama.cpp.
        
       | delduca wrote:
       | Firefox for Windows now have a button "Talk to OpenAI"
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | What is this all about? Where would I find any of these LLM
       | features? What do they even do?
       | 
       | When I go to about:config and enter "browser.lm", there's nothing
       | displayed. That's on the latest 144.0.2 release.
       | 
       | Is any of it somehow related to this?
       | https://www.heise.de/en/news/One-API-for-all-Mozilla-ends-LL...
        
       | bitsig wrote:
       | For people using NixOS, you can wrap these configs in extraPrefs
       | in wrapFirefox firefox-unwrapped:
       | 
       | Example: Put this expression(using lockPref to hardcode the
       | config values) in environment.systemPackages(assuming "with
       | pkgs"):                 (wrapFirefox firefox-unwrapped {
       | extraPrefs =             (               ''
       | lockPref("browser.ml.enable", false);
       | lockPref("browser.ml.chat.enabled", false);
       | lockPref("browser.ml.chat.hideFromLabs", true);
       | lockPref("browser.ml.chat.hideLabsShortcuts", true);
       | lockPref("browser.ml.chat.page", false);
       | lockPref("browser.ml.chat.page.footerBadge", false);
       | lockPref("browser.ml.chat.page.menuBadge", false);
       | lockPref("browser.ml.chat.menu", false);
       | lockPref("browser.ml.linkPreview.enabled", false);
       | lockPref("browser.ml.pageAssist.enabled", false);
       | lockPref("browser.tabs.groups.smart.enabled", false);
       | lockPref("browser.tabs.groups.smart.userEnable", false);
       | lockPref("extensions.ml.enabled", false);               ''
       | );                })
        
         | ekr____ wrote:
         | I know I'm a broken record on this topic, but messing with
         | prefs directly is not a supported way of configuring Firefox,
         | so if you do this, you shouldn't complain that Mozilla changed
         | the prefs and reenabled these features.
         | 
         | It's of course totally fine to be annoyed if Firefox doesn't
         | have a supported preference to disable them (though from the
         | discussion below it sounds like they do) or if you set that
         | preference and then they change it.
        
           | themafia wrote:
           | > is not a supported way of configuring Firefox
           | 
           | What is the supported way?
           | 
           | > you shouldn't complain that Mozilla changed the prefs and
           | reenabled these features.
           | 
           | Then they should provide a reliable way of getting what I
           | want. This notion that software developers know better than
           | me is poisonous.
        
             | ekr____ wrote:
             | > What is the supported way?
             | 
             | The settings UI.
             | 
             | > > you shouldn't complain that Mozilla changed the prefs
             | and reenabled these features.
             | 
             | > Then they should provide a reliable way of getting what I
             | want.
             | 
             | As I said in the comment you are responding to, it's
             | perfectly legitimate to complain if Mozilla didn't provide
             | a setting to disable these features (though it seems they
             | have done so in at least some cases). However, if they
             | don't do so, and you decide to disable them in some
             | unsupported way, you shouldn't be surprised that you get
             | unexpected results.
             | 
             | > This notion that software developers know better than me
             | is poisonous.
             | 
             | I don't think this is really a reasonable proposition as a
             | general matter. A browser is a very complicated piece of
             | software and each individual configuration point is
             | additional development and testing burden, both separately,
             | and in combination with other configuration points.
             | Developers need to make all kinds of decisions in order to
             | manage engineering complexity. In some cases, where
             | developers know that people will want to configure things,
             | they'll provide configuration options but it's not
             | practical to do so for every feature, and inevitably in
             | some cases they'll get it wrong (see "legitimate to
             | complain" above).
        
           | KetoManx64 wrote:
           | How is it an unsupported way of configuring Firefox when they
           | literaly code the browser to accept and parse the config file
           | and set the settings?
        
       | pessimizer wrote:
       | It's important to remember that if people think of Firefox as a
       | way to escape LLMs being pushed on them in Chrome, they might
       | accidentally attract users from Chrome. It's the only possible
       | reason why this wouldn't be a plugin. Why else would a user-
       | focused browser consciously come up with strategies that attack
       | user preferences?
       | 
       | You just don't understand the eleven-dimensional chess that you
       | have to play to get from 30% marketshare to 2% marketshare. They
       | have to think they have a winning strategy, judging by the way
       | they talk to everybody who criticizes their decisions.
        
       | marginalia_nu wrote:
       | Mozilla seems to be an organization that is metrics driven to a
       | degree that would make Robert MacNamarra blush.
       | 
       | I think this is why they keep shoving new features at users
       | whether they want them or not, making them incredibly difficult
       | to disable, rather than presenting an option try something new,
       | or even making opting out of features easy and intuitive.
       | 
       | The latter two would lead to fewer users of the feature, which
       | means it risks being removed for not being used by most users.
       | Not to mention having an easy opt-out functionality means its
       | usage can be tracked, which could generate unwanted statistics
       | and make a stakeholder lose face.
        
       | evolving-silica wrote:
       | I'm not sure if I ever used any LLM features from Firefox besides
       | exploring, but so far it seems great they're trying local
       | approach instead of sending it to some "partner".
       | 
       | In the comment section here I see lot of people complaining about
       | the fact it's enabled by default as well as some concerns about
       | resource usage. Could someone experienced in desktop app
       | architecture explain if disabling them functionalities makes
       | Firefox that much faster or using less resouces? I'd assume that
       | those functionalities are kind of loaded on demand?
       | 
       | "AI" became such a keyword that seem to instantly give either
       | positive or negative response, it's also an advertised feature of
       | every second app with many of them just forcing AI into you just
       | because of hype. This doesn't seem to be a case in Firefox - so I
       | highly disagree with the title - the features are there but they
       | don't go into your way if you don't want them, therefore it's
       | easy to just use it, only when needed
        
       | metalman wrote:
       | deleated from most recent linux install on a new to me desktop.
       | vile I just want to work(create stuff), there is nothing that any
       | "service" can do for me. the relentles attempts to get in the way
       | of sending and recieving information is mindbogling, and I am
       | going to be getting an analog telephone adapter, so that I can
       | start useing fax, over cellular data, and making paper plans
       | ,taking pictures, and converting to pdf's to avoid the wasted
       | time and cost of software solutions the surreal part is that the
       | LLM's have found me, and are recomending me to people looking for
       | custom metal, so much for a low profile there, and somehow my
       | number got out on indeed, and I got a wave of people calling,
       | applying for "the job" but bitterly complaining that the app they
       | downloaded as part of that, wasn't working right. fine, ok,
       | whatever.
       | 
       | but not on my machine
        
       | dathinab wrote:
       | sure the smart tab group features are kind useless (but tab
       | groups are grate)
       | 
       | but I don't understand why people make such a deal about it
       | 
       | it looks a loot like "I don't like this so it mustn't even exist
       | even if some people like it" mentality
       | 
       | like
       | 
       | - all of this features are opt in, they don't just randomly send
       | your data somewhere or randomly eat your CPI resources (without
       | you having enabled them)
       | 
       | - the smart tab group features(1) are the only very visible and
       | kind dump/useless one, and you can disable them without tweaking
       | internal configs unser "Addons > On-device AI" (but it won't
       | disable the button in the group tabs menu which is used to enable
       | that feature in the first place)
       | 
       | - for many users side translations is an important must have
       | feature, it's one of the AI features, and having a local on-
       | device no data send to servers translation is very desirable (to
       | be fair US users probably don't care nor realize it matters, but
       | it really matters) (To be fair the OP didn't disable this either)
       | 
       | - for increasingly many users integration with chat bots (e.g.
       | ChatGPT) is a must have browser feature(2). The integration is
       | also only visible in a context menu(3) and hidden in the a
       | selector for the side bar and needs to be explicitly setup before
       | it does anything. So a feature some people want and treat as must
       | have and now can have and for everyone else it's pretty much out
       | of the way and not pushed onto you at all. So why insists that
       | it's not okay to have it even in a selector hardly any power
       | users will ever use (because the other options there are
       | bookmarks, and history, both with well known widely used keyboard
       | shortcuts)
       | 
       | - the preview was a "Labs" (i.e. experimental preview) feature
       | you have to explicitly enable and then use the right hot key to
       | use, and it's one of this "some people expect this feature in
       | 2025" features (but not sure what happened to it, it's neither in
       | Labs nor enabled in any FF browser I have, so maybe they
       | discontinued it)
       | 
       | (1): They IMHO are pretty dump and seem more like a way to setup
       | the whole infrastructure around them with a trivial to implement
       | feature then a in depth feature mozilla cares about. I guess.
       | 
       | (2): On HN it often seems like only enthusiasts and not many non-
       | tech people use ChatGPT and co. _That is not true at all_. When
       | it comes to "simple" ChatGPT usage far more non technical users
       | use it then technical one. Like for dump stuff like shopping
       | list, holiday check lists, etc. The problem OpenAI has isn't that
       | they don't have a lot of users, it's that they need a absurd
       | amount of high paying users. But the tasks most non-tech people
       | use generic ChatGPT for aren't worth a lot. Like even the Plus
       | plan is a "only if you are wealthy enough to burn 20 bucks every
       | month without caring" option in such a context and the Pro plan
       | just absurd.
       | 
       | (3): Is anyone except non technical users still using browsers
       | context menus in a way where a "Ask AI Chat-Bot" entry
       | matters???? Like copy, past, undo, redo, select all have trivial
       | short cuts. Language/spell check is rarely touched and inspect
       | has a short cut where you press Q after right clicking.
        
       | zmmmmm wrote:
       | It's boggling my mind that FireFox is 2% of the browser market
       | now. I'm hoping that includes mobile where it makes a lot more
       | sense. But even so, really sad. It is actually a great browser
       | (putting aside this issue of AI features being pushed) and I
       | actually do have much greater trust that it is respecting my
       | privacy over Chrome and Edge.
        
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