[HN Gopher] A.I. and Social Media Contribute to 'Brain Rot'
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       A.I. and Social Media Contribute to 'Brain Rot'
        
       Author : pretext
       Score  : 194 points
       Date   : 2025-11-07 15:34 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | cramsession wrote:
       | Television rotted the brains of a good portion of the boomer
       | generation. Ditto for garbage like People magazine. If you watch
       | some old TV ads from the 80s, it's scary at how bad they are. The
       | variety of content from modern, connected platforms definitely
       | can be harmful but it leaves people less susceptible to
       | manipulation than a dozen TV stations and yellow journalism.
        
         | reactordev wrote:
         | Exactly. The article should just say "Mass consumption of media
         | causes brain rot" because since 1900 that's all it's doing.
         | 
         | Radio programs that caused mass hysteria. TV advertising that
         | caused people to cook plastics into their food. The
         | advertisements for hair loss. For ED. For testosterone, for
         | bunions, warts, insomnia, apnea, eczema, droopy eye, eye bags,
         | teeth, dogs teeth, cats bum, extended car warranty, leasing a
         | car, phones, computers, vbros, and all those TikTok "hacks"
         | which are just mcguyver poor people hacks.
         | 
         | Brain rot comes from watching others live their lives...
         | 
         | Get outside, do something.
        
         | gdulli wrote:
         | Past media may have prepped us with some brain rot that's now
         | causing people to prostrate themselves to the tech giants in
         | exchange for not having to work as hard. But that doesn't mean
         | that an acceleration of social media, slop, and loss of
         | transparency on the information we take in isn't going to be
         | extremely worse.
        
         | AaronAPU wrote:
         | Reading this, I have no idea which of the thousands of new
         | media silos you inhabit. But they all tell different mutually
         | exclusive narratives.
         | 
         | So statistically, even if one is purely honest and accurate,
         | most likely you aren't in that one particular silo.
        
           | CamperBob2 wrote:
           | Trouble is, the "silos" in both new _and_ traditional media
           | aren 't necessarily mutually exclusive. See https://old.reddi
           | t.com/r/oddlyterrifying/comments/13akipf/a_... for example.
        
         | bgwalter wrote:
         | Yet anti-war protests were orders of magnitude stronger in the
         | 1980s, Iran Contra was treated like real scandal [1] and
         | politicians occasionally had to resign for misbehavior.
         | Political awareness was much stronger than now and economic
         | issues had far more screen time.
         | 
         | The legacy media was better though than now, despite obvious
         | missteps like hyping up the second Iraq war.
         | 
         | [1] No one would care these days about old weapons being sold
         | to Iran to finance a coup in, say, Venezuela. Of course one
         | would use a coin scam to generate slush funds nowadays.
        
         | dougb5 wrote:
         | As dumb as People magazine is/was, it is not algorithmically
         | optimized to hook its readers through constant notifications
         | and rewards. I'd say social media has the edge in terms of its
         | ability to cause sleep deprivation, cognitive fragmentation,
         | and addiction, especially in kids.
        
         | lm28469 wrote:
         | > it leaves people less susceptible to manipulation
         | 
         | less ?
         | 
         | We went from a few selected and hand crafted local propaganda
         | sources to world wide fully automated propaganda machines...
         | 
         | If I had to choose I'd chose the former personally. Information
         | is always opinionated but i'd rather have my local flavor of
         | propaganda over 3 channels and 2 newspapers rather than having
         | foreign propaganda from all around the world drilling in the
         | heads of my neighbours and family members 24/7.
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | _Television rotted the brains of a good portion of the boomer
         | generation._
         | 
         | Don't discount the effect of lead in paint, pipes, gasoline,
         | etc. It's not a surprise that Republicans try to roll back
         | regulations that remove lead.
        
         | tharne wrote:
         | What is the argument being made here? That we've done stupid
         | and damaging things to our brains in the past so we just stop
         | worrying and just double down?
        
         | ares623 wrote:
         | Been seeing this argument more and more. Is there a name for
         | it?
         | 
         | "Bad thing X has been happening forever.
         | 
         | AI _guarantees_ X will exponentially get worse, but it lets me
         | do (arguably) good thing Y so it's okay."
        
       | Alex2037 wrote:
       | "things that compete with legacy media are le bad", article
       | #20735.
        
         | everdrive wrote:
         | Well yes, they are. It's just that a lot of legacy media is
         | also bad. They can both be correct.
        
           | Alex2037 wrote:
           | how many wars did LLMs and the social media instigate? the
           | shitrag here did at least one.
        
             | everdrive wrote:
             | LLMs are quite new, so you might honestly want to save your
             | comment and return to it in a few years. For social media,
             | I think you can point to directly social media with regard
             | to the Arab Spring as well as the Rohingya genocide, and
             | many, many mass shooting events. I'm sure there's more,
             | that's just off the top of my head.
             | 
             | Much like legacy media, social media is certainly not
             | _wholly_ or necessarily even _primarily_ responsible, but I
             | think there's little doubt it played a role.
        
               | Alex2037 wrote:
               | >LLMs are quite new, so you might honestly want to save
               | your comment and return to it in a few years.
               | 
               | okay, call me when an LLM begins to append "furthermore,
               | I think that X must be destroyed" to its outputs.
        
             | ceejayoz wrote:
             | > how many wars did LLMs and the social media instigate?
             | 
             | At least one already. I suspect your comment won't age
             | well.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_genocide
             | 
             | https://www.reuters.com/article/us-myanmar-rohingya-
             | facebook...
             | 
             | > Marzuki Darusman, chairman of the U.N. Independent
             | International Fact-Finding Mission on Myanmar, told
             | reporters that social media had played a "determining role"
             | in Myanmar.
             | 
             | You could probably count the war in Gaza to some extent.
        
               | Alex2037 wrote:
               | >Marzuki Darusman, chairman of the U.N. Independent
               | International Fact-Finding Mission on Myanmar, told
               | reporters that social media had played a "determining
               | role" in Myanmar.
               | 
               | "played a role" != "instigated". everything "played a
               | role" there.
               | 
               | their fucking government did it.
               | 
               | >You could probably count the war in Gaza to some extent.
               | 
               | are you for real?
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | > "played a role" != "instigated"
               | 
               | You took out a pretty important word.
               | 
               | > are you for real?
               | 
               | Yes? Both sides of the conflict used social media heavily
               | to justify their actions and generate support for
               | continuing the conflict.
        
       | shagie wrote:
       | Gift link:
       | https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/06/technology/personaltech/a...
        
         | Narciss wrote:
         | thx
        
       | randycupertino wrote:
       | I'm in a local facebook group for my town where people post
       | hiking pics, bird pics, local business updates, contractor
       | recommendations etc. I am annoyed to see "brain rot" videos
       | starting to take over the page.
       | 
       | There is one dude promoting his succulent repotting/resale
       | business and he's posted like 5-8 ai generated surfer dude monkey
       | surfing and partying with his potted succulents just in the last
       | week. I opened the comments expecting to see other people
       | complaining, "hey buddy take your ai-spam elsewhere" but all the
       | comments were "cute!" "adorable" and "love this!" I just ended up
       | blocking this dude but I am sad for humanity lol.
        
         | HeinzStuckeIt wrote:
         | On modern social media, even if you had a group full of smart
         | and reasonable people, the platform itself is injecting crap
         | that may well drive out many of them.
         | 
         | I rececently returned to Reddit since there are no other
         | remaining discussion venues for one of my hobbies. I looked at
         | the new-Reddit interface and shuddered: ads are being shown
         | among comments, and many comments are hidden by defaul because
         | apparently discussion and community brings insufficient
         | engagement for a modern ad-based internet business. Even if I
         | and a tiny, tiny percentage of people are still using the old-
         | Reddit interface, obviously the overall culture there is going
         | to be molded by the default one.
        
           | Espressosaurus wrote:
           | Old reddit is unfortunately just a rounding error. I weep for
           | the day they decide to kill it.
        
             | noir_lord wrote:
             | I don't, the utility of reddit has declined over time for
             | me but there are still a handful of reddits that I enjoy
             | but them killing old.reddit.com is absolutely what will
             | push me off the platform entirely.
             | 
             | Though at this point I spend (or waste depending on PoV)
             | much less time on reddit than I used to.
        
             | dingnuts wrote:
             | weep? I'd finally be free. I wish this site would disappear
             | too. Whoever designed these algorithms got me good, at a
             | young age, and I don't think these sites have been a net
             | positive overall or on me personally
        
               | entropie wrote:
               | Iam nearly 15 years on reddit now and I would miss it if
               | i cant use old. or a good client. Iam sure sooner or
               | later it will happen and ill most probably leave.
               | 
               | Reddits quality went downhill over the years but there is
               | more or less no successor/competitor. It will be over and
               | buried forever. Eternal september gets them all.
               | 
               | Side note: be free if you want to and dont make it
               | dependent on decisions others do for you.
        
               | ASalazarMX wrote:
               | We are already free. If we keep returning to a few
               | subreddits, it's because we can't find an equivalent
               | community elsewhere. If they kill the old interface,
               | we'll eventually use the new one if there are no other
               | alternatives, no need to lie to ourselves.
        
           | sssilver wrote:
           | My favorite Reddit UX scam is that you tap on comments to
           | collapse them along with their children, UNLESS they're an ad
           | that masks itself exactly like a comment in which case you
           | tap it with the intent of collapsing it, but instead you
           | inadvertently increase RDDT shareholder value (at the expense
           | of the time you waste closing the webview)!
        
             | anoncow wrote:
             | If I accidentally did it Adsense would ban me.
        
               | webspinner wrote:
               | Do it anyway! Then you have a case against them.
        
             | frank_nitti wrote:
             | Not to mention that, at least on the iOS app, the button to
             | close an ad is in a totally different place than the rest
             | of the UI screens, which is always in the top-left of the
             | screen. A small "X" is placed in the middle-left of the ad
             | image, to make you spend an extra second finding it, which
             | I would assume they are happy to report as a user
             | engagement metric to their advertisers.
        
             | amarcheschi wrote:
             | I think it's possible to remove ads with reddit revanced
        
             | spicybright wrote:
             | I refuse to use reddit with it's modern UI. Once
             | old.reddit.com dies I'm hanging up my spurs
        
               | Loughla wrote:
               | I left when they killed 3rd party app access.
               | 
               | Honestly even the curated subs I was a part of were
               | pretty toxic or echo-chambery now that I've had time to
               | look back
        
               | anukin wrote:
               | The biggest problem is that Lemmy is no substitute for
               | Reddit. Majority of it is run by tankies and people
               | professing extreme left views.
        
               | nekusar wrote:
               | "Extreme left" said by someone likely from the USA is
               | slightly left-of-center basically anywhere else.
               | 
               | The USA democrats and "left" have been overton window'ed
               | so hard that a actual democratic socialist, Mamdani, is
               | compared to being a communist.
               | https://nypost.com/cover/november-5-2025/
               | 
               | There's also hundreds of Lemmy federated servers. I'm
               | sure some are actual communist. But there's plenty for
               | all walks of life. And it's like Mastodon in that regard.
               | 
               | And honestly, if "killing SNAP and other public benefits
               | for poor people" is capitalist, I want nothing to do with
               | that. That is completely ethically bankrupt. Doubly so
               | being one of the richest countries in the world.
               | Absolutely 0 people should be starving. And I'd also say
               | that 0 people should be involuntarily homeless. (some may
               | want to, and choose to be vagabonds and travel. they
               | should have that right! but they should also be able to
               | choose to have a home.)
        
               | HeinzStuckeIt wrote:
               | The OP says tankies. Those kinds of extreme left are
               | extreme even by non-USA standards. A European-style
               | democratic socialist like Mamdani would be, one hopes, to
               | the right of them. Tankies were largely forced out of
               | European mainstream parties after the shocks of 1937,
               | 1956 and 1968.
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | A better way to think of it is that the western "left"
               | isn't part of the global left. Using tankie unironically
               | is a classic example.
        
               | Loughla wrote:
               | I'm saying you don't even need a substitute. Genuinely
               | looking back, I was more anxious when I would browse
               | reddit in my free time.
               | 
               | I promise, disengage from social media (and the doom news
               | cycle for that matter) and you'll be happier, or at least
               | you'll worry about stuff you can control instead of stuff
               | you can't.
               | 
               | Except hn. Never disengage from hn.
        
               | chistev wrote:
               | Where would you go to? Hacker new?
        
           | rurp wrote:
           | I don't know how anyone can use the official reddit mobile
           | app for more than 5 minutes. Between the ads and terrible
           | interface it's an awful experience. But I also hate facebook
           | so I'm clearly not the target audience for this stuff.
           | 
           | RedReader is a much better interface but lately has been
           | having issues for me so I just haven't been using reddit. If
           | and when they kill that client I'll be done with the
           | platform.
        
           | derbOac wrote:
           | Maybe I'm in the minority, but with ad blockers I never see
           | ads on Reddit. I honestly don't think I've ever seen an ad on
           | Reddit at all, with a tiny exception for ads for other Reddit
           | offerings, which is very recent for me.
           | 
           | Not saying they're not on there, but the ad blockers must be
           | doing a pretty good job on that site.
        
             | webspinner wrote:
             | I don't usually see them either!
        
           | shortrounddev2 wrote:
           | I first joined reddit in 2010 because it was the best place
           | to see other people's minecraft creations. I no longer have
           | an account but by far the most commonly suggested videos for
           | me when I view the front page without an account are
           | 
           | 1. Car crashes
           | 
           | 2. Street/bum fights
           | 
           | 3. Conspiracy theory content (UFOs, Anti-vax, chemtrails)
           | 
           | 4. Anti-semitic videos (one such video was titled "Kanye was
           | right about everything")
           | 
           | 5. Anti-muslim videos (weirdly I get a lot of Indian majority
           | subreddits that post a lot of hate videos about
           | Pakistan/Muslims)
           | 
           | Every single one of these categories produces feelings of
           | outrage. Reddit has just become a fucking hate machine. Not
           | just hate toward other races, but hate toward the entire
           | human race. Every video shows someone doing some anti-social
           | shit, like people driving like total assholes, or running
           | people over, or getting hit by a train after cutting off
           | traffic, or beating each other senseless in public. In the
           | 1990s there was a huge outcry over violence in media because
           | of Mortal Kombat, Doom, and The Matrix, but here we are today
           | watching actual people die on dashcams regularly. This has to
           | be just _bad_ for us on a really primal level
        
             | webspinner wrote:
             | OK maybe try to escape the algorithm? This is different
             | with Reddit, though. You'd have to figure out which
             | settings you need to change.
        
             | Mountain_Skies wrote:
             | It's wild how many fan subreddits end up turning into hate
             | boards for the sub's alleged purpose.
        
           | stdclass wrote:
           | > since there are no other remaining discussion venues for
           | one of my hobbies
           | 
           | maybe you find a suitable board on 4chan
        
           | webspinner wrote:
           | I'm leaving Reddit because of all this!
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | There are Firefox extensions that monkeypatch the old UI with
           | usability enhancements and force a redirect for all reddit
           | links.
        
           | damnesian wrote:
           | I never use the app, only login to old. and when old is taken
           | away, I will take my marbles and go home.
        
         | knicholes wrote:
         | I've found a page on Facebook that regularly posts single white
         | mothers with black babies on supposed dating profiles with very
         | demanding requirements for men. The comments are loaded with
         | people saying that they deserve their current situation,
         | enforcing racial stereotypes, etc. It's not hard to see that
         | these are AI generated, as there are maybe 5-8 posts a day like
         | this, and the images are pretty clearly AI generated.
         | Regardless, they get the engagement, and they sell the shirts.
         | Easy way to automate a business, I guess, but at what cost?!
        
           | stuartjohnson12 wrote:
           | Could you give me some searching clues to hunt down this or a
           | similar profile?
        
             | ekidd wrote:
             | Several of the Reddit "AmITheAsshole"-style subs have a
             | significant number of posts which are either AI or sloppy
             | creative writing.
             | 
             | Mass-produced outrage bait isn't new, and it's available in
             | a thousand flavors. But AI has accelerated this process, at
             | least for people who don't notice when they're getting
             | played (or who don't want to notice).
        
             | HeinzStuckeIt wrote:
             | I don't have a link, but I have seen exactly what he's
             | talking about, which probably means that it is an
             | established business model and multiple actors are doing
             | it.
             | 
             | A similar thing I have randomly come across multiple times
             | on YouTube are videos consisting of a still AI image of a
             | white person mistreating a black person (e.g. a white
             | police officer screaming with rage at a black man eating in
             | a diner) and an AI voiceover text telling a GPT-generated
             | story hashtagged #heartwarming, e.g. "The white police
             | officer was violent against the black man... What he didn't
             | know was this was a highly decorated veteran!"
             | 
             | Some of these are clearly getting picked up by the
             | algorithm and drawing hundreds of thousands of views. The
             | factories behind these are probably halfway around the
             | world but realized the race relations of a large economy
             | can be exploited for profit or geopolitics.
        
             | randycupertino wrote:
             | Here are a few examples of ones where right-wing
             | influencers are making AI-shop videos of people complaining
             | about losing SNAP benefits:
             | 
             | https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/comments/1ojydg
             | q...
             | 
             | https://www.reddit.com/r/themayormccheese/comments/1ojtbwz/
             | a...
             | 
             | Note how that second one all uses the same script, "I have
             | 7 babies from 7 different baby daddies!"
        
         | wslh wrote:
         | Just a few hours ago, I was trying to find the profile of an
         | excellent swimmer I met at dinner yesterday. I knew his first
         | name and the club he swims in, so I searched his name together
         | with the club and "swimming" on Instagram without using the
         | keyword club. Almost all the results were attractive girls
         | posing in swimsuits, but none were actual amateur swimmers. The
         | guy I was looking for didn't appear at all.
         | 
         | BTW, mi Instagram account is just a placeholder and I can't
         | imagine an algorithm suggesting that content. It seems like a
         | default suggestion.
        
           | daveguy wrote:
           | > ...I can't imagine an algorithm suggesting that content. It
           | seems like a default suggestion.
           | 
           | This implies that the default suggestion isn't a data
           | analyzed soup of what people of a given age / location /
           | demographic / search text are most likely to respond to. Even
           | if it is your first time to log on to a platform it is very
           | much algorithm driven.
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | > _all the comments were "cute!" "adorable" and "love this!"_
         | 
         | Probably bots?
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | I'm pretty surprised by how fooled normal people are by all
         | this AI-sludge, and/or how accepting they are of all this low-
         | effort content. My reaction to this stuff is the same as yours:
         | please don't clog the internet up with all this fake content!
         | But everyone else in my life thinks it's great, and sometimes
         | don't believe me when I point out it's obviously AI generated.
         | I think people are already totally fooled and think it's real.
        
           | mediaman wrote:
           | Cultural antibodies take a long time to develop. In twenty
           | years you will see more common resistance to what's being
           | produced today, but less to whatever new innovation is
           | released then.
           | 
           | See, for example, the slowly declining efficacy of banner
           | ads, as each cohort of computer user learned to ignore them
           | but they still retained efficacy on newer vintages of users.
        
           | webspinner wrote:
           | I have the exact same response!
        
           | chemotaxis wrote:
           | > I'm pretty surprised by how fooled normal people are by all
           | this AI-sludge, and/or how accepting they are of all this
           | low-effort content. My reaction to this stuff is the same as
           | yours: please don't clog the internet up with all this fake
           | content!
           | 
           | I instinctively want to blame AI, but on some level, I think
           | the problem runs deeper: it's that we are for some reason
           | compelled to consume content where it _just doesn 't matter_
           | if it's real or not. It has no bearing on your life. You just
           | want to spend your time scrolling through heartwarming
           | stories about complete strangers, or through rage-bait that
           | reinforces your political beliefs. Ethically, I see a
           | difference between telling you true stories and lies. But if
           | we're being honest with ourselves... what changes if the
           | kitten rescued from a storm sewer is actually just gen AI?
           | 
           | This isn't even a Facebook thing. 24-hour news networks and
           | many newspapers perfected this craft before. Endless streams
           | of celebrity gossip and stories about stranded / rescued
           | pets, written for no reason other than to satisfy this weird
           | craving among the readers.
           | 
           | Each step along the way lowers the bar for feeding you the
           | content and allows it to be tailored better, but I don't know
           | what the fix here is. Short of banning the internet and
           | forcing people to go outside more.
        
           | Esophagus4 wrote:
           | I will admit, I consider myself pretty tech savvy and I am
           | having a harder time these days identifying AI-generated
           | content (aside from the obvious ones).
           | 
           | I find myself squinting hard at interior design pictures on
           | Pinterest to see if they're real, I can never be sure with an
           | instagram video, and even blogs and comments are getting
           | harder to tell.
           | 
           | And I think the fact that I am having a harder time
           | distinguishing reality from AI worries me greatly that I
           | would be susceptible to misinformation if I venture outside
           | of trusted sources.
        
         | BolexNOLA wrote:
         | Moderators really need to start cracking down on this stuff. If
         | nothing else just posts per week limits or something.
        
         | tarsinge wrote:
         | Keep in mind the FB algorithm is likely showing you that
         | content more than to others since it might have detected it'd
         | be annoying to you (and that results in better engagement
         | metrics).
        
         | thih9 wrote:
         | Funny to complain about content marketing that happens outside
         | of HN, when content marketing is so popular here.
         | 
         | E.g. in this recent 800+ point submission[1] a company presents
         | their product as the ultimate alternative to PaaS, their use
         | case seems shallow and presents their product in positive light
         | only.
         | 
         | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45661253
        
           | mihaic wrote:
           | I think it's not at all self-contradicting.
           | 
           | HN is a niche forum that is all about making things that
           | scale. Most human interactions shouldn't scale, there's no
           | space for them to be absorbed except by other humans.
           | 
           | Only the very top should scale down, and that can be done in
           | more ways, some more ethical than others.
        
         | yieldcrv wrote:
         | > in a local facebook group for my town ... [someone posts AI
         | promos]
         | 
         | > I opened the comments expecting to see other people
         | complaining
         | 
         | people are less confrontational the more local it is
        
         | keiferski wrote:
         | I think it's a generational thing. Younger people don't really
         | use Facebook very much and are much more active on TikTok and
         | instagram, both of which I would describe as semi-hostile to
         | AI, or at least the kind of lazy slop AI you're talking about.
        
         | Bombthecat wrote:
         | The internet will be more and more ai stuff.
         | 
         | At the end of the day, people don't care if it's real or not as
         | long as it's either entertaining or tells them what they want
         | to hear.
        
         | Mars008 wrote:
         | Have you seen sci-fi movies? It's all fake! And people are
         | happy with this. Same here, it becomes annoying only after some
         | time. Most didn't get to this point yet. By the time they get
         | quality will be better, so like new again. After that even
         | adults will have hard time telling apart reality from
         | generated. Like little kids believe dreams are true.
        
       | soperj wrote:
       | I'm anti-social media and AI, but I would like to submit:
       | 
       | Schfifty Five https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XccUMOQ978
        
       | bgwalter wrote:
       | "AI" absolutely contributes to brain rot. Google "AI" is just a
       | status quo propagandist that makes things up, misunderstands
       | questions and berates the "user" if the "user" dares to
       | contradict. It is worse than any legacy media. It also weaves in
       | how awesome "AI" is and how the "user" should treat "AI" with
       | respect, preferably like a human.
       | 
       | You should definitely keep minors away from this dangerous
       | brainwashing.
       | 
       | Even better "AI"s lead to outsourcing of thought, search
       | capabilities, speed reading and critical reflection.
        
       | monospacegames wrote:
       | It's funny how multiple commenters here are reacting to this
       | article by saying that older media is also bad when the article
       | itself is about specific observations about how relying on AI and
       | overengaging in social media can lead to detrimental outcomes.
       | 
       | Ironically this tendency to form an opinion without investing
       | time might also be a form of brain rot.
        
         | HeinzStuckeIt wrote:
         | Using a HN post to talk about something unrelated you wanted to
         | talk about anyway, has been part of HN for years. Probably
         | because a lot of people feel with the rise of 140-character
         | type social media, there are fewer and fewer venues on the
         | internet where you can substantially talk to educated and non-
         | brand-hustling people about the things that you think about.
        
           | dingnuts wrote:
           | this website exists as an advertisement for a brand. the
           | people here are hustling harder than anywhere! it's worse
           | than LinkedIn! that's why this website is a constant dick
           | measuring contest -- it's a news site run by a venture
           | capitalist firm about startups!
           | 
           | Why would you think this place is not absolutely full of
           | shills?
           | 
           | the Internet is so dead, I'm sure I'm arguing with a bot. I
           | need to go outside..
        
             | HeinzStuckeIt wrote:
             | HN is definitely founded by a creepy VC firm and _some_ of
             | the posts get comments by startup-culture hustlers. But
             | most posts don 't. Instead you find the same broad
             | population of people looking for news for nerds that used
             | to be on Slashdot etc.
             | 
             | HN's interface, and showing just a username in a tiny font,
             | honestly gives me less of that tiring feeling of people
             | around me hustling a personal brand, than even the
             | fediverse which is supposedly "healthy social media".
        
             | Der_Einzige wrote:
             | I hear you about being very sad about the internet "dying"
             | and real engagement being gone.
             | 
             | HN is full of bullshit, shills, charlatans, and extremely
             | bad moderation/rules. Yet it, like Linkedin, dramatically
             | increases your earning potential if you post here.
        
               | kjkjadksj wrote:
               | Uhh, the yc job board is essentially a different site
               | entirely than this forum.
        
           | Karrot_Kream wrote:
           | Yes and it's largely made the site lose the rigor it used to
           | have. You compare it to Slashdot downthread which I don't
           | think is a good thing. The reason I joined this site so long
           | ago is because Slashdot was more interested in tech culture
           | shibboleths than actual tech or business. Natalie Portman!!
           | Hot grits! Embrace, extend, extinguish!!
           | 
           | Unfortunate to see the same happen here but that's life I
           | guess. The fact that the news for nerds group is so desperate
           | to find community that they glom onto every IRC and website
           | they can is a bit sad but I guess it's the nature of online
           | cultures. But oh yeah enshittificiation and the year of the
           | Linux desktop is tomorrow and Meta is going down down down or
           | something right?
           | 
           | On the other hand it's funny how folks who like that culture
           | keep putting it on a pedestal. Why? It contains little
           | predictive power. It teaches little. It's just about opining.
           | Is it that fulfilling to find online bytes that share your
           | opinions? I guess I use my real life friends and family for
           | that.
           | 
           | It's social media in a nutshell. We're more interested in
           | finding people like us than confronting reality. When that
           | happens at scale, you lose mass consensus. HN is but one
           | piece of that.
        
             | HeinzStuckeIt wrote:
             | I was on Slashdot 1998-2004 and found plenty of substantial
             | tech discussion. The meme culture you mentioned was there,
             | but it was usually in posts downvoted into invisibility
             | unless you deliberately chose to browse at -1.
             | 
             | > I guess I use my real life friends and family for that.
             | 
             | In my region, I never had real-life friends I could shoot
             | the shit about FOSS geekdom with. And nearly all of my
             | friends forged in youth through shared interest in
             | intellectual topics, drifted away from that as they married
             | and had children and had to spend all their waking hours on
             | family or working to support family.
             | 
             | Where I live has a traditional cafe culture, so there is a
             | third place for men to go to daily and interact, but the
             | topics that can be talked about there are very limited
             | indeed, so obviously nerds "glom onto" internet
             | communities.
        
               | Karrot_Kream wrote:
               | > I was on Slashdot 1998-2004 and found plenty of
               | substantial tech discussion.
               | 
               | I think this was, roughly, peak Slashdot (tho I'll admit
               | I was probably too young to be a good judge of it at this
               | point.) From 2004 the meme discussions started overriding
               | a lot of the regular discussion, and by 2007 ish the site
               | was constantly getting derailed into EEE threads the way
               | HN is constantly getting derailed into enshittification
               | threads.
               | 
               | > Where I live has a traditional cafe culture, so there
               | is a third place for men to go to daily and interact, but
               | the topics that can be talked about there are very
               | limited indeed, so obviously nerds "glom onto" internet
               | communities.
               | 
               | My point of contention is that, this form of FOSS geekdom
               | culture has many, many venues. Do you want to hop onto
               | IRC? HN? Reddit? Discord? It may not be mainstream but it
               | occupies the internet in a deep, fundamental way. On the
               | other hand actual hard-nosed technical or business
               | content is a lot, lot rarer. The loss of a site that
               | discusses tech to become Yet Another FOSS Geek Social
               | Site is to me a much sadder thing; there's a lot fewer of
               | the former and a lot more of the latter. But, as you say,
               | I've noticed a lot of the users are really desperate for
               | a social venue to talk about tech nerd culture and so
               | that's what crowds out all the other discussion.
        
               | HeinzStuckeIt wrote:
               | > derailed into EEE threads the way HN is constantly
               | getting derailed into enshittification threads
               | 
               | And yet in hindsight, this seems to have been a pretty
               | accurate way of looking at developments.
               | 
               | Anyway, there's a difference between chit-chat that is
               | just inane posting of the same old memes, and long-form-
               | text chit-chat where people occasionally learn something
               | new. IRC is no substitute, as long-form text isn't part
               | of the culture and some channels discourage social
               | activity entirely. Reddit is enshittified and, because
               | the standard input device is a phone screen, so hostile
               | to long-form text that posting just a couple of solid
               | paragraphs marks you out as a weirdo who will get
               | downvoted.
               | 
               | You like business news, but IMO that's the worst part of
               | HN. For a site based on "anything that gratifies one's
               | intellectual curiosity", most people who are working hard
               | to develop a startup simply don't have the leisure time
               | for a wide range of interests. That's why posts on the
               | humanities here often draw some less-than-informed
               | responses, even though many nerds would see them as
               | important a part of the life of the mind as hacking
               | computers.
        
               | Karrot_Kream wrote:
               | > You like business news, but IMO that's the worst part
               | of HN.
               | 
               | I'd be much happier with an HN that actually talks about
               | tech and nothing else. It's unclear to me why the 3000th
               | thread about social media being evil needs 1000 posts of
               | armchair opinion or how every thread about Meta devolves
               | into declarations about how the company will implode
               | (why? Because God will smite it for its sins? Lol.) Or
               | whether or not AI will doom is all. The gravity of
               | activity on this site is tech culture. It's not really
               | tech. Obviously a certain person really enjoys this
               | culture. But I'm not more intelligent, aware, or even
               | better informed because of it. My take is the folks that
               | enjoy this culture don't care much in the same way nobody
               | cares about these things at a sports bar or cafe.
               | 
               | My guess is the reason I joined HN (this is my 2nd
               | account, my first was in 2007) and why someone joins the
               | site now is very different. Back then I was interested to
               | see the developments on web tech. We watched Javascript
               | build and mature into today's browser language. We
               | watched the rise of dynamic languages, a rebound to
               | static languages, and now interesting developments like
               | Rust and Zig. TCP got improvements, now we have things
               | like WebRTC, QUIC, Homa, and gRPC. But I suspect today
               | people join here because they want to talk about whether
               | AI will steal their jobs and are only tangentially
               | interested in how LLMs and transformers actually work.
        
             | cloverich wrote:
             | > We're more interested in finding people like us than
             | confronting reality.
             | 
             | The reality is there arent many people like us outside of
             | work. I would love to be able to talk about this kind of
             | stuff irl but in all my years none of my irl friends,
             | acquaintences, etc, are more than remotely interested in
             | the kinds of topics that come up here. There is a distinct
             | difference between echo chambers where the opinions are
             | common (politics), and thread discussions like on HN where
             | real life versions are fleetingly rare. I dont think its
             | entirely fair to conflate the two. eg:
             | 
             | > Is it that fulfilling to find online bytes that share
             | your opinions?
             | 
             | I discuss on HN as much to find and genuinely debate
             | alternative opinions, and IME thats a pretty common
             | pattern. i have learned so much reading other comments,
             | formulating thoughtful responses to others, and have others
             | break down / extend / critique my own shared opinions. Its
             | what makes HN enjoyable and also the primary way its
             | different than other social media sites.
        
               | Karrot_Kream wrote:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45848504
               | 
               | 206 points and 129 points on a 47 word blog post where
               | most of the thread is about what people think about the
               | title.
               | 
               | Are you sure it's actually different from other social
               | media sites or do you just find it more relevant to you
               | than the others?
        
         | tekbruh9000 wrote:
         | Here's an example of how reliance on traditional media leads to
         | detrimental outcomes: https://ourworldindata.org/does-the-news-
         | reflect-what-we-die...
         | 
         | Anyone from far away lands, kings, priests, CEOs, rando on HN
         | reaching into your mind... all engaged in information shaping
         | to encourage allegiance. It makes instinctual sense for NY
         | Times editors to get others to risk their health through
         | limited coverage. Biology is self selecting and instinctual to
         | the core; it does not run in high minded philosophy, just
         | physics. The only way to confirm our efforts now matter is stay
         | alive longer to verify. Something entropy does not afford our
         | individual biology.
         | 
         | I have taken to ignoring those not on the cutting edge of
         | health science and essential technology for food safety and
         | production. Everyone else is gaming clicks.
        
         | sureglymop wrote:
         | I don't really understand how they used "brainrot". I thought
         | brain rot was this generations surrealism, a type of art?
         | 
         | By all means, study the detrimental effects of social media and
         | AI on our brains but don't correlate it with people creating
         | art _just because_.
        
           | triMichael wrote:
           | There are two types of "brainrot" that are related but not
           | the same. Essentially brainrot is anything that is anti-
           | thinking.
           | 
           | The first type of brainrot is what happens when you let other
           | things think for you and your thoughts and opinions become
           | not your own. AI is anti-thinking because you can let the
           | machine think for you. Social media is anti-thinking because
           | you can let other peoples' opinions think for you.
           | 
           | On the other hand, memes actually communicate ideas. For
           | example, The Simpsons Ralph meme "I'm in danger" and the dog
           | on fire "This is fine" memes both represent understanding
           | being in a dangerous situation while doing nothing about it.
           | Star Trek was actually way ahead of its time with the episode
           | "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra" which was about a culture that
           | used memes as communication.
           | 
           | So what do you get when you combine brainrot ("anti-
           | thinking") with memes? You get brainrot memes, which is the
           | second type of brainrot. For example, 6-7. 6-7 doesn't
           | communicate ideas. It doesn't mean anything. Instead, it
           | communicates the opposite of an idea. So when someone says
           | "6-7", they are embracing using language in an anti-thinking
           | way. In this way, brainrot memes can be thought of more as an
           | anti-meme. It's as contagious as an idea, but since it
           | doesn't contain any information, it acts more like a virus.
           | So brainrot memes are essentially mind-viruses that embrace
           | the lack of thinking that comes with brainrot.
        
             | sureglymop wrote:
             | > So when someone says "6-7", they are embracing using
             | language in an anti-thinking way.
             | 
             | Using language in an anti-thinking way seems like a
             | somewhat interestingly thought through mission though. If
             | that's even the case.
             | 
             | The fact that you try to think about it that much though is
             | arguably what makes it almost funny.
             | 
             | Art doesn't have to make you think or convey any ideas.
             | L'art pour l'art. It doesn't matter if it's on TikTok or
             | wherever.
        
       | hvs wrote:
       | Anything that contributes to you not needing to actually "think"
       | and instead just "react" is going to be bad for you because it is
       | simply engaging your reward system. The only way LLMs can be a
       | net good is if they free you from drudgery and allow you to work
       | harder on the things that actually matter. (Think dishwashers and
       | laundry machines). If you are using them as an "easy button" so
       | you can finish your work (poorly) to have more time to scroll
       | your timeline then yes, you are turning your brain into mush.
       | 
       | I'm purposefully not engaging with whether LLMs are actually even
       | good at what they do, which is another discussion.
        
         | SunshineTheCat wrote:
         | I think this is true of just about any technology. It will make
         | lazy people lazier and help productive people get more done in
         | less time. It's all about where the motivation is for each
         | individual.
        
       | chaseadam17 wrote:
       | Why hasn't a social media platform with mandatory verification to
       | prove users are unique humans taken off yet? Still too hard to
       | break the existing network effects?
        
         | sssilver wrote:
         | How would such verification work at planetary scale?
        
           | floren wrote:
           | Who cares about planetary scale? Back when your networking
           | reach was largely limited by the size of your area code,
           | local BBSes had user verification and were incredibly
           | popular.
        
             | philipkglass wrote:
             | Nextdoor is the only social network I have used that
             | confirms your real-life location, and it's not any better
             | than the planetary scale sites. BBSes were better due to
             | how users self-selected into them. Small geographic
             | clusters don't inherently promote quality.
        
           | HeinzStuckeIt wrote:
           | Most platforms for the last decade have used phone numbers
           | for real-human detection. Facebook is well known to quickly
           | lock new signups' accounts until they give a phone number.
           | Obviously that can be gamed by some people in some places,
           | but all countries on earth have mobile phones now and
           | purchase of a SIM card often requires showing ID to
           | authorities.
        
             | master-lincoln wrote:
             | how would a phone number proof uniqueness though? I can buy
             | multiple SIM cards even with showing ID
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | Anonymity is more important, and verification systems can
         | always be gamed. To add, given what you see well known people
         | post under their real name, including Trump posting a video of
         | himself shitting all over Americans, I don't understand what
         | benefit you're expecting to get.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | That's Facebook. Just because it's mandatory doesn't mean
         | people aren't going to cheat it. And cheating is the problem.
         | Verifying that it's an actual human sitting at the keyboard is
         | basically an exam proctoring level problem. Otherwise people
         | will just produce vast farms of accounts.
         | 
         | AI of course makes it easier to fake whatever kind of evidence
         | the verifier is asking for: there will be an arms race between
         | fake AI and verification AI.
         | 
         | (the nearest to verified membership I've actually seen in
         | practice was, oddly, Debian developers - you had to get a key
         | signed in person to be in the club)
        
       | Mabusto wrote:
       | I think we'll start to see AI as any other tool that can atrophy
       | your natural faculties. You can use a wheelchair to get
       | everywhere, but your leg muscles will start to wither, but a
       | wheeled vehicle for going longer distances is a genuinely useful
       | tool.
       | 
       | Reaching for AI as a _substitute_ for thinking is bad, but
       | reaching for it as a tool to assist thinking is good; you just
       | need to be honest about whether it's your brain in the driver's
       | seat or the chat bot.
        
         | api wrote:
         | Ancient Egyptians on writing:
         | 
         | "For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of
         | those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their
         | memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters
         | which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of
         | their own memory within them."
         | 
         | https://www.anthologialitt.com/post/the-god-thoth-and-the-in...
         | 
         | This discourse is as old as humanity. Every tool makes us
         | stronger but also paradoxically weaker.
        
           | tharne wrote:
           | > This discourse is as old as humanity. Every tool makes us
           | stronger but also paradoxically weaker.
           | 
           | Of course that statement is true for every tool, but what's
           | missing from the discussion is whether the trade off is worth
           | it. Even truly terrible things have benefits. Smoking
           | cigarettes makes it easier to maintain a healthy weight, this
           | is well documented. Smoking has also been shown to reduce
           | anxiety in some people. The negative consequences that
           | cigarettes introduce, however, are so horrific that no one in
           | their right mind would recommend that someone take up
           | smoking, even if there are some demonstrable benefits to it.
        
           | paddleon wrote:
           | Curious if we could test/compare (popluation-level) memory
           | skills before/after writing was introduced to the population.
           | 
           | I want to say "I remember things better when I write them
           | down", and because I think I'm a smart person I think my
           | memory is good.
           | 
           | I don't know how well I'd remember things if I'd spent a
           | large portion of my life building memorization skills. Maybe
           | I could be 100x better at memory if I exercised it more?
        
         | afavour wrote:
         | Yes, IMO this is going to start becoming visible sooner rather
         | than later. College students that defer to ChatGPT to form
         | arguments for them are going to graduate, sit for an in-person
         | job interview and discover they haven't had to think fast, with
         | their own brain, in years. It won't be pretty.
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | But who is going to crack first? Will job applicants somehow
           | remove their borg implants and learn to think on their own?
           | Or will businesses give in and admit that nobody can think
           | for themselves anymore, allowing applicants to use ChatGPT
           | during their interviews (knowing that they're probably going
           | to need to use it on the job, too).
        
             | jimbokun wrote:
             | Or businesses just use ChatGPT to replace the entry level
             | employee.
        
               | daveguy wrote:
               | I can't wait for the first company to do this. I hope
               | someone comes around to do a good post mortem from the
               | rubble.
        
         | tharne wrote:
         | > Reaching for AI as a _substitute_ for thinking is bad, but
         | reaching for it as a tool to assist thinking is good; you just
         | need to be honest about whether it's your brain in the driver's
         | seat or the chat bot.
         | 
         | I think this is generally true, but human nature being what it
         | is, the vast majority of people will use AI as a substitute for
         | thinking rather than a tool to assist thinking. You can already
         | see this from casual observation of today's AI users.
         | 
         | As I've grown older, I've noticed that more often than not,
         | when someone says something to effect of, "Thing X can cause
         | problems, but is great if used properly", you can be almost
         | 100% certain that Thing X is going to cause very large problems
         | and practically no one is going to use it correctly.
        
           | gregates wrote:
           | Unfortunately, "X is just a tool and is super useful when
           | used properly, all things are both bad in excess and good in
           | moderation, what you gonna do?" is exactly the type of
           | conclusion that a chat bot is likely to reach. Doesn't really
           | say anything, appears to express sophistication and wisdom by
           | being more "nuanced" than an actual position, demands nothing
           | of your audience, not likely to get downvotes on social
           | media, etc.
        
           | MSFT_Edging wrote:
           | Proper use of anything that has a big downside is in direct
           | opposition to making money, sadly.
        
             | bloppe wrote:
             | This is true if you're only looking at the short term. In
             | the long term, quality does matter.
        
         | PetitPrince wrote:
         | Steve Jobs "bicycle for the mind" analogy is more potent than I
         | initially thought.
         | 
         | When got past the bicycle phase where we augment our body with
         | technology but still leave room for our body to improve. We got
         | into the automobile phase where only the goal matter and the
         | body is not participating (and improving) anymore.
         | 
         | (well, except maybe for F1 which are bona fide athlete, but
         | your average driver in a traffic jam is most certainly not a F1
         | driver)
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | I don't think the "tool weakening" discourse is strong enough:
         | it overlooks the aversarial nature of the modern internet.
         | There are humans actively intending to weaken you for various
         | reasons, either to sell you stuff or to weaken you
         | ideologically by making you hate other humans such as in this
         | comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45848215
         | 
         | See also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45845772 "meta
         | predicted 10% of revenue came from scams"
        
         | Barrin92 wrote:
         | >You can use a wheelchair to get everywhere, but your leg
         | muscles will start to wither
         | 
         | I don't know if they still exists but there was a (Dutch, I
         | think) company that makes non-electric lifts and tools for
         | elderly people at home that _require_ muscle effort from the
         | people using them. Purely augmentative tools that don 't work
         | without input.
         | 
         | And that is how it needs to be. Framing this as choice is
         | already wrong. Any tool that is agnostic or conducive to
         | forfeiting agency _will_ be used in wrong ways. It 's not
         | enough to make the healthy part optional, your brain will not
         | be in the driver seat given how human beings work.
         | 
         | People in Japan are slim with no spending while people in the
         | US remain obese while spending billions exactly because to the
         | Japanese this isn't a choice, it's one the environment makes
         | for them. If you rely on people "keeping themselves honest"
         | you've already lost.
        
           | daveguy wrote:
           | I believe you are thinking of the Vertiwalk lift:
           | 
           | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fYqHWDt5wRk
        
         | Liquix wrote:
         | there seems to be a parallel with the industrial revolution -
         | being fit and having muscles used to be the norm when everyone
         | worked the fields all day. but now that grocery stores and
         | sedentary jobs have made exercise optional. so choosing to
         | pursue fitness signals to others that one is disciplined, takes
         | pride in their appearance, etc.
         | 
         | i can see the next couple generations of AI agents causing the
         | same effect on reading, critical thinking, and intelligence in
         | general. thinking is no longer necessary with AI agents, so
         | maybe cultivating one's ability to think will become
         | optional/personal pursuits which send similar signals.
        
         | brailsafe wrote:
         | > You can use a wheelchair to get everywhere, but your leg
         | muscles will start to wither
         | 
         | Although it's not to the same degree of atrophy, I've been
         | thinking of cars the same way. They're too easy to use once you
         | have them, just press the pedal, so you stop walking and
         | everything becomes a matter of driving distance, which makes it
         | acceptable to distribute commercial activity in stupid little
         | pockets of car destinations and avenues separated from each
         | other by noise, pollution, and danger. People may not
         | physically atrophy to the point of having no leg muscles, but
         | their tolerance for walking a km becomes much more strained and
         | their appreciation for investment in public transport lessens.
         | They don't see or speak to people as much because they're
         | always in their portable silo. You burn less calories, it's
         | easier to gain weight, and people discount the value in having
         | a gym within walking distance.
         | 
         | It's tough to reconcile it with being a functional tool,
         | because although I could conceivably use it as one and buy one,
         | I know that it can become an addiction.
        
       | maxdo wrote:
       | I'm doing most complicated projects I ever work , I would not
       | even try to implement them without AI. My brain is exploding of
       | complexity every time , I passively learn lots of topics I only
       | had a vague understanding in the past
        
         | tharne wrote:
         | > I'm doing most complicated projects I ever work , I would not
         | even try to implement them without AI. My brain is exploding of
         | complexity every time , I passively learn lots of topics I only
         | had a vague understanding in the past
         | 
         | This sentence is very poorly written and ironically is
         | undermining the very case you're trying to make.
        
           | sdwr wrote:
           | It's pretty clearly not a native English speaker
        
             | tharne wrote:
             | That's fine; I wasn't referring to the academic quality the
             | grammar. It's the ideas themselves that are muddled and
             | unclear. Proficiency in given language and the ability to
             | express oneself clearly are not as related as we typically
             | think they are.
             | 
             | I know plenty of folks with poor English who are
             | nonetheless very clear and concise when it comes to
             | expressing their thoughts in English. I also know many
             | native English speakers who, despite being proficient in
             | the language, cannot express a lot their ideas clearly or
             | concisely.
        
               | Nightloaf wrote:
               | The ideas seem fairly clear to me. They're working on
               | projects that are much more complex than what they were
               | able to approach before, and they're able to dive into
               | topics that were previously out of reach because of AI
               | assistance. The grammar may not be perfect, but the point
               | is understandable.
               | 
               | If you want to give feedback, the Hacker News guidelines
               | encourage responding to the strongest interpretation of
               | someone's argument. Instead of criticizing the way
               | something is written, you could rewrite it in a clearer
               | form to demonstrate what you mean. That way it's
               | constructive, and they have something to learn from.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | What language has a space preceding commas?
        
               | xanderlewis wrote:
               | ...good question. This (standard) excuse is designed to
               | make you feel bad for potentially insulting someone
               | trying their hardest, but it doesn't make any sense.
        
         | moravak1984 wrote:
         | You could add writing to that list of topics...
        
           | Nightloaf wrote:
           | Could you focus on contributing something meaningful to the
           | discussion instead of adding snarky insults?
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
       | entropie wrote:
       | > "I'm pretty frightened, to be frank," Dr. Melumad said. "I'm
       | worried about younger folks not knowing how to conduct a
       | traditional Google search."
       | 
       | Well, this guy obviously didn't get the memo that Google search
       | isn't what it was 10 years ago and is total junk.
       | 
       | It's not just AI brain rot. Brain rot is everywhere. Social
       | media, linear TV, politics.
        
         | SunshineTheCat wrote:
         | "I'm worried about younger folks not knowing how to conduct a
         | traditional Google search."
         | 
         | This has a real "I'm afraid no one will know how to ride a
         | horse when the motorcoach comes out" sense to it.
         | 
         | The answer is, who cares? Why would a better way of doing
         | something "frighten" someone. Not to say it won't come with its
         | own set of issues, but technology constantly evolving/improving
         | should be expected by now, but humanity remains terrified at
         | even the slightest upheaval of the status quo.
        
           | hitarpetar wrote:
           | typical technological determinism. comparing AI to the
           | motorcoach assumes something we cannot know yet, namely that
           | the impact of AI on the next century will be comparable to
           | the invention of the automobile. there's also a long list of
           | negative externalities caused by automobiles. who cares?
           | anyone hurt by climate change, or who lives in a grid
           | organized around cars rather than people. anyone who has ever
           | been killed in a car accident.
        
             | D-Machine wrote:
             | Yes, although in this case the premise is just entirely
             | wrong. A "traditional Google search" doesn't work anymore
             | as Google just ignores half of what you put in anyway, and
             | even vigorous quoting and Google-fu still generally just
             | returns SEO garbage. Whereas e.g. Kagi is another world
             | (proving that "knowing how to search" is not actually the
             | problem anyway).
        
           | xanderlewis wrote:
           | > a better way of doing something
           | 
           | Your argument fails right here because you're supposing
           | something that isn't true. LLMs are better than search
           | engines for _some_ things, but you 're speaking as if they're
           | a replacement for what came before. They're absolutely not.
           | Reading books -- going to the original source rather than
           | relying on a stochastic facsimile -- is never going to go
           | away, even if some of us are too lazy to ever do so. Their
           | loss.
           | 
           | Put another way: leaving aside non-practical aspects of the
           | experience, the car does a better job of getting you from A
           | to B than a horse does. An LLM does not 'do a better job'
           | than a book. Maybe in some cases it's more useful, but it's
           | simply not a replacement. Perhaps a combination is best: use
           | the LLM to interpolate and find your way around the
           | literature, and then go and hunt down the _real_ source
           | material. The same cannot be said of the car /horse
           | comparison.
        
       | jaykru wrote:
       | For posterity: https://archive.ph/jsJgf
        
       | throwaway106382 wrote:
       | Contribute? That's basically its only purpose now, rot your brain
       | with a dopamine drip and show you a bajillion ads. Now with AI
       | slopgen being baked right into most of them it's been set into
       | overdrive.
       | 
       | Deleted all my social media accounts except Youtube (but I use
       | Unhook to remove everything except my subscriptions and the
       | search). Haven't felt better. I use Telegram and Whatsapp and SMS
       | to keep in touch with friends and family, nothing connected to
       | any social app. I avoid all of the social-media-lite features in
       | those apps like the plague.
        
       | carabiner wrote:
       | I think it's much healthier to spend time playing video games,
       | watching netflix/youtube, than on social media.
        
       | AIorNot wrote:
       | I found this in the article to be pretty funny
       | 
       | "I'm pretty frightened, to be frank," Dr. Melumad said. "I'm
       | worried about younger folks not knowing how to conduct a
       | traditional Google search."
       | 
       | 20 years ago I remember all the scary articles/studies about the
       | web ruining education.
       | 
       | e.g
       | 
       | Net cheaters (from link below)
       | 
       | The ease of gathering information on the Internet has a darker
       | side. The simplicity of finding out things on the Web also makes
       | it easy for students to cheat. Cutting and pasting text from a
       | Web site and into a paper is effortless. So is wholesale copying
       | or purchasing finished essays or reports. About a fifth of online
       | youth (18%) say they know of someone who has used the Internet to
       | cheat on a paper or test. While 9% of those who have been online
       | for a year or less know someone who has cheated, 19% of those who
       | have been online for 2 to 3 years and 28% of those who have been
       | online for more than three years know people who have used the
       | Net to cheat
       | 
       | from https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2001/09/01/main-
       | report-...
        
       | supersrdjan wrote:
       | Socrates thought that writing contributed to brain rot.
       | 
       | If I AI rots my brain than so did Google before it, and printed
       | encyclopedias before that. In reality, the fact I can get my
       | questions answered quickly only makes me think of more and more
       | questions to ask, more things to wonder about, more problems to
       | ponder.
        
         | District5524 wrote:
         | That still seems to be a problem. It was not what "Socrates
         | thought", but what Plato put into Socrates' mouth in Phaedrus,
         | and even this imaginary Socrates is not saying anything like
         | that, just referencing an even earlier Egyptian tale: "There is
         | an old Egyptian tale of Theuth, the inventor of writing,
         | showing his invention to the god Thamus, who told him that he
         | would only spoil men's memories and take away their
         | understandings..."
         | https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/plato/dialogues/benjamin-j...
         | But that's just pedantery. The real painpoint is that just
         | because there are lots of useful AI tools, it doesn't mean it's
         | not dangerous at the same time for a surprising number of 8B
         | people currently alive (children, elderly, mentally lazy or
         | just fatigued). At the very least, they will end up being
         | exploited by bandits. And if you let the bandits continue to
         | exploit those who lack certain mental resistance, the bandits
         | will become stronger etc.
        
           | supersrdjan wrote:
           | Can't you say the same about the printing press?
        
             | PeaceTed wrote:
             | I mean to some degree it is true in that you have the
             | luxury of forgetting stuff if you know where you can get
             | that information in future. I think many can agree that
             | having access to written and printed word even has been a
             | big positive.
             | 
             | "I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the
             | meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me." Ralph
             | Waldo Emerson.
        
             | 52-6F-62 wrote:
             | It was used in exactly the same way. You think the world
             | you live in is based on the honest truth of how things
             | went? Entire families and peoples have been written out of
             | history, for convenience. They are kept out of history for
             | "stability".
             | 
             | Reading should help one think, but it is not to replace
             | thinking...
        
         | ares623 wrote:
         | You/me in your/my current state are/is the single most
         | important thing in the world.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | Socrates is probably right. There are probably entirely
         | different connections being made in ones brain in an oral
         | culture vs written culture. Socrates was alive to see the
         | transition where these differences in manners of brain activity
         | were readily apparent, unlike today where all educated people
         | are already "ruined" by writing and there is no control
         | possible.
         | 
         | I have seen something similar. Engineers from the analog era
         | able to solve complicated calculations in their head like you
         | and I might perform simple arithmetic. It is like entire
         | functional capabilities have been lost thanks to being able to
         | punt these tasks to a calculator in modern times. Akin to an
         | animal no longer competent to make the amino acids it needs to
         | survive because some other species in the environment makes
         | them and can be eaten.
        
           | supersrdjan wrote:
           | I agree that those are impressive skills that are becoming
           | rare and make us compare unfavorably to old schoolers. But I
           | am also impressed by trackers who can follow a trail in the
           | bush by observing clues invisible to ordinary people. All
           | kinds of skills fell into disuse when the problems they
           | solved lost importance.
           | 
           | But we will never run out of problems to solve and new
           | problems will call for new competencies.
           | 
           | I wonder what are some of these new competencies. I can't
           | think of any off the top of my head. Can you?
        
       | webspinner wrote:
       | Well, don't use that kind of social media, I suppose.
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | > "I'm worried about younger folks not knowing how to conduct a
       | traditional Google search."
       | 
       | Such a low bar.
        
       | bloppe wrote:
       | The wishful cynic in me sometimes thinks this might actually lead
       | to a partial reversal of ageism in the workforce. It's almost
       | starting to look like the kids graduating from school with
       | chatgpt are actually handicapped (painting in extremely broad
       | strokes; there will always be prodigies) and those who graduated
       | or worked before 2022 will actually become more desirable to
       | hire.
       | 
       | I'm sure this take is at best oversimplified. Probably mostly
       | wrong. But it's certainly something I will think about while
       | hiring from now on
        
         | eboynyc32 wrote:
         | Such bs! Every new tech causes the disgrace of society! Music,
         | films, dancing, comic books, the internet. Everything is always
         | evil except the bible of course.
        
           | bloppe wrote:
           | A recent Stanford grad just told me "it's all just bots
           | talking to bots", referring to students who use ChatGPT to do
           | all their homework, and teachers who use ChatGPT to grade the
           | work that was submitted by ChatGPT. And because of the
           | pandemic, somehow people think it's now reasonable to do
           | standardized testing in private with internet access. It's an
           | anecdote, but she was really dissatisfied with her experience
           | there. And that's one of the most prestigious schools in the
           | country.
           | 
           | Do you have a different experience in academia recently?
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | Funny I've been trying to quit reddit and I'm just like "what do
       | I do with my time" I usually have two windows: reddit on the left
       | and YT on the right. I work 7 days a week and haven't made
       | anything for myself code/hardware wise in a while.
       | 
       | I think of this concept living second hand through other people's
       | lives (social media) it's not living your own
        
       | oldsklgdfth wrote:
       | Lumping AI together with social media is confusing for me. One is
       | a tool for the user, the other is not.
       | 
       | If social media is a tool for anything, it is for the company to
       | generate ad revenue. Sure there is value someone can extract
       | (keeping in touch family). But I can also extract value from junk
       | mail (using it as scrap paper for notes and lists.)
       | 
       | AI is still a tool. I think? I have not seen any direct way that
       | monetizes it through ads, yet. I expect AI with a revenue model
       | will look way worse.
       | 
       | AI is turning people dumb. I see it all the time with code slop.
       | It's the old "give a man a fish vs. teach a man to fish". Maybe a
       | tool-using approach to AI is "should me how to do this", rather
       | than "do this for me". "Show me an example of some code" is more
       | useful to me than unleashing it on my project.
       | 
       | Also, social media is obviously a sort of digital narcotic.
       | Probably should be scheduled.
        
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