[HN Gopher] Lessons from Growing a Piracy Streaming Site
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Lessons from Growing a Piracy Streaming Site
        
       Author : zuhayeer
       Score  : 250 points
       Date   : 2025-11-07 07:09 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (prison.josh.mn)
 (TXT) w3m dump (prison.josh.mn)
        
       | MallocVoidstar wrote:
       | Previously: https://torrentfreak.com/hehestreams-iptv-admin-
       | sentenced-to...
        
         | gethly wrote:
         | > Specifically, in multiple communications with MLB employees,
         | STREIT claimed that he knew MLB reporters who were 'interested
         | in the story,' and stated that it would be bad if the
         | vulnerability were exposed and MLB was embarrassed.
         | 
         | Oh man, such a stupid thing to do. This turned a $150k bounty
         | into extortion.
        
           | jimmydorry wrote:
           | > Streit indicated his work was worth $150K but was also
           | informed there was no 'bug bounty' program at the baseball
           | league.
           | 
           | Sounds like a bug that would have been better off anonymously
           | leaked for the other IPTV providers to pick up, after said
           | bug was valued at 0 in greyhat dollars.
        
             | gethly wrote:
             | That is not what it says. They only said they had no bounty
             | program to attract people to try and find bugs. That does
             | not mean companies are not willing to compensate you if you
             | find and report a bug in their system. I think 150k was
             | well worth it, but the guy just worded it in the worst
             | possible way.
        
             | joshmn wrote:
             | The bug couldn't have had less to do with streaming, and in
             | the wrong hands would have been worth a significant amount
             | of money--exponentially more than what the Shopify CVE
             | calculator spit out and I replied with at the time. There's
             | more here: https://prison.josh.mn/charges
             | 
             | There's a lot of nuance, and what was ultimately reported
             | about the bug isn't how things played out--there's tons of
             | context missing. I won't talk more of the bug, or the
             | handling of situation. I realize it was the leading
             | headline (more so than the "guy had streaming website") but
             | it was, in my opinion, also the most far-fetched.
        
         | GardenLetter27 wrote:
         | The US sentences seem really crazy coming from Europe - like
         | even violent rapists barely get 3 years here:
         | https://www.gov.uk/government/news/sentence-increased-in-sex...
        
           | raincole wrote:
           | I don't know the details about this specific case, but to me
           | "violent rapists barely get 3 years" is the crazy side. YMMV.
        
             | viridian wrote:
             | The US is a major outlier in sentencing for violent crimes
             | and sex crimes. It's not the absolute peak in terms of
             | sentencing, but its somewhere between the Latin American
             | mean and the Middle Eastern mean, which is unexpected given
             | its other human development indicators.
        
           | crtasm wrote:
           | Your link does not back up your claim.
        
       | NooneAtAll3 wrote:
       | > refund
       | 
       | ah, it's _this_ kind of pirate streaming
        
         | MallocVoidstar wrote:
         | The vast majority of pirate stream sites are monetized in some
         | way. If I was going to use one I'd probably prefer to pay some
         | small amount rather than deal with the hellish ads the 'free'
         | ones use.
        
           | Semaphor wrote:
           | Or you could use an adblocker.
        
             | MallocVoidstar wrote:
             | A lot of the pirate stream sites I've run into break
             | entirely if you have an adblocker enabled. I'd guess it's a
             | combination of filter lists not being tested on them along
             | with much more aggressive ads (from sketchier ad networks).
        
               | pferde wrote:
               | Use a _good_ adblocker. I 'd never do anything illegal,
               | of course, but a friend of my friend has been
               | successfully using all sorts of pirated content sites for
               | years, and swears he barely sees any ads.
               | 
               | Or, you know, don't. The less popular these sites are,
               | the longer they stay around.
        
               | MallocVoidstar wrote:
               | At the time I'm quite certain I was using uBlock Origin
               | pre-MV3. I don't think I also had my DNS-based adblocker
               | yet, though.
        
               | Semaphor wrote:
               | Maybe I'm not using enough of them, because I've never
               | had issues with uBo. Or it's because I use 3rd party
               | script blocking.
        
           | ngruhn wrote:
           | Idk if I'm paying anyway, why not the legal way?
        
             | timpera wrote:
             | I'm personally not into piracy, but with paid pirate sports
             | streaming websites, you often get a better user experience
             | and way more choice for cheaper than with the legal
             | options. You only need to pay once and you don't need to
             | jump between apps.
        
             | MallocVoidstar wrote:
             | Much cheaper and no blackouts. HeheStreams was $100/year
             | for NBA/NHL/NFL/MLB, the NBA's equivalent was $200/year in
             | 2021.
        
             | aaaaaaron wrote:
             | No DRM issues (like same quality on every device, no extra
             | privileges), one application for everything, runs
             | everywhere, no UX issues (e.g., long scrolling to continue
             | watching series, no autoplay and no spoilers in the
             | thumbnail). It's worth paying for such an experience, which
             | the first parties don't provide.
             | 
             | (Speaking in general here, this includes Jellyfin.)
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | DRM issues are why I cancelled and won't renew
               | Paramount+. Their damn Google TV app running on a
               | completely stock/factory Chromecast w/ Google TV, plugged
               | in via HDMI to an unmodified TV, frequently (always on
               | the same shows, especially newer Star Trek series)
               | refuses to recognize the validity of my setup and reverts
               | to an incredibly annoying color tint rotation that cycles
               | between extremes. It took me quite a while to figure out
               | what the hell was happening.
        
             | Telaneo wrote:
             | IPTV in Western Europe is becoming more popular because
             | it's decently priced for what you get. Say you want to
             | watch football, but don't give a shit about anything else
             | sports related. Well, you're probably still paying for
             | everything else in a giant package for 50-100+ USD a month.
             | 
             | Especially for someone who only cares about their team,
             | watching two games a month, that's a really bad deal. Even
             | more so if your local offer is burdened with bad
             | commentators or ads you can't get away from. Scale that
             | problem up to someone who watches a few different sports,
             | but none are available as one single package, and the value
             | for money gets worse, while the experience grows worse as
             | well, being you're now divided between several services.
             | Add in DRM and bad app experiences, and you get people who
             | just can't be arsed to do things properly any more, given
             | they are functionally being punished for doing so.
             | 
             | Or you could pay a shady guy a few quid a month, but the
             | service is good, and you get everything under the sun,
             | moon, sky, and maybe even the stars. Can't blame them for
             | wanting an experience that isn't trying to wring them dry.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | It's so funny how much that reminds me of working in a
               | university acquired by a large for-profit corporation.
               | 
               | After the MBAs arrived, the whole thing was about selling
               | shitty packages for students.
               | 
               | - The college was somehow legally allowed to charge a
               | minimum, so people only needing one single class was
               | still paying for 3.
               | 
               | - They would push high distance learning for anything
               | they legally could, showing the same video of the same
               | teacher to all their 10 universities and paying "tutors"
               | a minimum wage to moderate hundreds of Moodle classes (if
               | not putting Masters students to do it for half the
               | minimum wage). So 80 students paying $1000 on average to
               | take a 5 class, and some of those cost on average $2000 +
               | server costs. What a business.
               | 
               | - Of course classes that had 10 people in it suddenly had
               | 40. And for when there wasn't 40 people to attend, they
               | would consolidate classes with another group and half
               | would have to go to the other side of town for the one
               | class that, if they didn't attend, would set back their
               | tuition by one year.
               | 
               | But yeah, sure it makes more money.
               | 
               | When you don't even have to compete on quality, that's
               | what happens.
        
             | moussasissoko wrote:
             | I don't condone it but if you're in the UK and you want to
             | legally watch every premier league game last season...
             | 
             | Sky Sports - PS35/month
             | 
             | TNT Sports - PS32/month
             | 
             | Amazon Prime - PS9/month
             | 
             | And then in the UK there is a legal peculiarity whereby 3pm
             | Saturday games are illegal to broadcast on television, so
             | you don't even get that slot. It's the most common slot
             | with about a third of the weekends games.
             | 
             | v.s. Paying someone on discord PS8/month for all the games
        
               | walthamstow wrote:
               | I'm sure Sky is a lot more than PS35, is that number just
               | for the Sports package on top of the basic sub?
               | 
               | p.s. great username
        
               | philjohn wrote:
               | Yes - that's for Sky Sports.
               | 
               | You can often get a deal if you threaten to cancel, go
               | through with it, and then wait for a retentions offer,
               | but since Sky was acquired by Comcast that's happening
               | less and less, especially for the superior Sky Q
               | satellite service - you can get great deals on their Sky
               | Stream service, but it's plagued with issues, and you no
               | longer have the ability to time shift by having the main
               | box record directly off the satellite feed.
               | 
               | You also can't skip ads unless you pay them, versus the
               | ability to pause, fast forward etc. on the Satellite
               | service.
        
               | b3lvedere wrote:
               | Amazon Prime introduced ads. The ads will dissapear for
               | some extra money. It made me instantly hate it.
        
               | hamdingers wrote:
               | Similarly, if you wanted to watch every single NFL game:
               | 
               | NFL Sunday Ticket ($150-204/season) - Out-of-market
               | Sunday afternoon games
               | 
               | Amazon Prime Video ($9/month) - Thursday Night Football
               | 
               | Peacock Premium ($10.99/month) - Some exclusive games on
               | NBC
               | 
               | ESPN Unlimited ($29.99/month) - Monday Night Football on
               | ESPN/ABC
               | 
               | Fox One ($19.99/month) - Fox Sunday games
               | 
               | Paramount+ ($7.99/month) - CBS Sunday games
               | 
               | Netflix - Two Christmas Day games
        
             | happymellon wrote:
             | One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that you dont
             | have to deal with re-authentication just because you
             | decided to watch it at a different location.
             | 
             | There are many small papercuts that legal providers subject
             | customers to.
        
             | tjpnz wrote:
             | I rented a movie recently on Amazon and it refused to play
             | in high definition because they didn't like the device I
             | was streaming it to. Bullshit like that.
        
             | joshmn wrote:
             | The big draw here was bypassing geoblocking that you
             | couldn't otherwise buy your way out of legally.
        
             | egorfine wrote:
             | Because "legal" way is paved with obstacles.
             | 
             | Geofencing (you can't watch this sport from this location
             | because fuck you), devices blacklisting (you can't watch
             | this sport on your mobile device because fuck you), rights
             | expiring (you can't watch this match anymore despite you
             | have "bought" it because fuck you), screen limiting (you
             | are logged in on both your TV and iphone so fuck you), etc.
             | All for $19.99.
             | 
             | In contrast, you pay like $9.99 and you can watch anything,
             | anywhere, anytime.
             | 
             | Remember when music piracy died? When Steve Jobs removed
             | friction between me and my music.
        
               | whstl wrote:
               | Exactly.
               | 
               | Netflix is even starting to have problems with Apple's
               | iCloud Private Relay with me, I already had to get in
               | touch with their support.
               | 
               | We live in a world where paid services require us to
               | deactivate security/privacy features to use them. Fuck
               | them.
        
             | whstl wrote:
             | I don't have cable or IPTV, but I do pirate other stuff
             | that I paid for:
             | 
             | Anything that has intrusive DRM has no place in my
             | computer.
             | 
             | If it's for work, I will still pirate while holding the
             | license, just for the stability alone.
             | 
             | For music stuff stability is paramount and I'd rather not
             | deal with things that magically stop working from time to
             | time (IK Multimedia is notorious for that).
        
             | encom wrote:
             | Can't play in HD because I don't use Windows or OSX. At the
             | torrent store, I can play back any resolution I want.
        
             | haritha-j wrote:
             | Because netflix has decided my netflix 4k account shouldn't
             | stream anything higher than 1080p in chrome.
        
           | NooneAtAll3 wrote:
           | > deal with the hellish ads
           | 
           | psst, kid
           | 
           | have you ever heard of _adblocker_?
        
             | gorbachev wrote:
             | Many pirate streaming sites don't work with adblockers.
        
               | AraceliHarker wrote:
               | The Admiral pop-up usually shows up on pirate sites.
        
         | matips wrote:
         | You always pay for piracy or it is bad experience. You have to
         | pay in your resources (private torrent trackers) or in cash
         | (derbit, usenet). Alternatively you use unstable and low
         | quality stream.
         | 
         | Because of philosophy I prefer sharing resources more than
         | cash.
        
           | lm28469 wrote:
           | I never paid a cent and always found what I looked for, just
           | type whatever you're looking for + "torrent" on yandex and
           | you'll hit something relevant very quickly
        
             | saaaaaam wrote:
             | From what he says in the post I think this guy was selling
             | pirated livestreams of sports - something that people want
             | to watch as it is happening, not as a torrent after the
             | event.
        
             | whynotmakealt wrote:
             | Stremio + torrentio for me is a very good setup personally.
             | It just works but I know of other mechanisms too.
             | 
             | One of these was to actually download a torrent and use
             | torrentfs or something similar and you can stream a video
             | directly from the mirror without downloading it fully and
             | on linux, I really appreciate its simplicity and I love it
             | ngl
        
           | NooneAtAll3 wrote:
           | > You always pay for piracy or it is bad experience
           | 
           | definitely not my experience
        
           | Telaneo wrote:
           | You have to go pretty far out there to find shows and movies
           | that aren't on public trackers. I definitely can find gaps if
           | I go looking for them, especially if we start counting not
           | finding a blu-ray rip while a DVD rip is easily found, or not
           | finding a 4K rip but a 1080p one is out there, but for most
           | anything friends would have asked me to dig up, a high
           | quality rip is easily found. Not to mention that once found,
           | it can just stay on a hard drive and be easily retrieved for
           | next time.
           | 
           | The only exception I can think of are local shows, but I
           | don't watch them, specifically because they're only on Actual
           | TV(tm), which I haven't watched in years, they only recently
           | got onto the local streaming services. They should still be
           | on local private trackers, which I can definitely agree is a
           | hassle, but depending on how bad your local streaming service
           | is, they can definitely a be a tempting prospect.
        
             | immibis wrote:
             | TFA says they were pirating live sports streams - live
             | content can't be accessed via torrent trackers, obviously.
             | 
             | I personally don't "get" sports, but I understand that
             | people who do, want it to be a shared experience where
             | everyone is watching the same game and feeling the same
             | emotions at the same time. Even ten seconds of extra
             | latency is bad because you can hear your neighbours
             | cheering before you see the goal get scored, and if you
             | were to download and watch the game 12 hours later, the
             | "magic of the moment" would be gone - might as well just
             | google what the final score was.
             | 
             | This comment was rate-limited.
        
         | joshmn wrote:
         | It started as a proof of concept and graduated to a free site,
         | and eventually I put a paywall up to see if anyone would be
         | willing to pay. Internally, I hoped nobody would--I wanted to
         | have a social life and not be beholden to old men telling me
         | their ghetto streaming site was broken--and I expected nobody
         | would.
         | 
         | The first purchase was for $100 on a "pay what you think it's
         | worth" model, and after watching the value that others were
         | willing to pay, I had a good idea as to what I would ultimately
         | charge.
        
       | rikafurude21 wrote:
       | These kind of pirated IPTV services are very popular in middle
       | eastern countries. You message some guy on whatsapp, pay him a
       | couple bucks and receive a link to an APK file + login info. The
       | app gives you access to basically any channel in every country.
       | They have to do everything through word of mouth because its high
       | risk, obviously, and even in developed countries you can get sent
       | to jail pretty quickly for running something like this. I was
       | expecting esoteric OPSEC lessons from this post, because if thats
       | not the highest priority, its pretty stupid to even consider
       | doing this.
        
         | JoeDohn wrote:
         | it's the same thing in western Europe, piracy IPTV is a very
         | popular thing since few years now, you get that through discord
         | servers or really a simple query on aliexpress and you can buy
         | a yearly account for 30$.
        
           | mlrtime wrote:
           | Have an example of a search term for non us content, or are
           | they all worldwide with 1000s of channels?
           | 
           | I want one for my MIL who speaks a different language.
        
             | Telaneo wrote:
             | The goto options that are commonly recommended locally to
             | me both have 40k+ channels, and if that doesn't include
             | damn near every TV channel in existence that's still
             | running, I'd be surprised. I'd imagine the IPTV pirates
             | have no reason to limit the number of channels they can
             | give you access too, since more = better, while trimming it
             | down is just more work for the pirates, and getting access
             | to every channel in the world is apparently not very
             | difficult.
             | 
             | I'd imagine the situation is much the same in other places.
        
         | lurk2 wrote:
         | > and even in developed countries you can get sent to jail
         | pretty quickly for running something like this
         | 
         | This would _only_ happen in developed countries. Nowhere else
         | in the world cares about foreign copyrights being infringed.
        
           | mlrtime wrote:
           | This seems like common sense, when you're not fully
           | developed, you spend time caring on the bottom of the
           | necessity triangle, not the top.
           | 
           | MS knows this fairly well, and why they don't go after the
           | low hanging pirates.
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | in what we would consider "non-developed countries", the
           | powers-that-be might not care about copyrights, but about
           | getting their cut/bakshish. Particularly the "illegal" world
           | doesn't take kind to outside "invaders" making money on
           | someone else's turf.
        
           | gosub100 wrote:
           | It may not be the copyright they care about so much, but
           | strict Muslim countries might find western shows criminally
           | objectionable on moral grounds.
        
         | mlrtime wrote:
         | Related https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45794455
         | 
         | Go to any local market place and you will see ads to buy these
         | streaming sticks with everything setup for you, plug and play.
        
         | JohnLocke4 wrote:
         | Good OPSEC is surprisingly simple and boring. Essentially, it
         | just boils down to using tor and not accidentally exposing
         | sensitive information, which is how Ross Ulbricht got caught.
         | (okay, it is more than that but in essence it is true)
         | 
         | There are probably many people in prison right now because tor
         | is awfully slow. If you don't have the patience for tor you
         | probably also don't have the patience for prison.
        
       | pta2002 wrote:
       | I found the whole site a very interesting (and fairly quick)
       | read. I don't really have anything else to add, but I'm glad the
       | owner manages to be honest and take good lessons from the whole
       | thing.
       | 
       | It's interesting to me how from his account, everyone is fairly
       | sympathetic to him regarding his charges (he mentions his
       | employer showing up to his interview in a sports jersey in
       | reference to his charges!), and how he mentions he knows several
       | actual sports players used his site. It really goes to show the
       | state of modern streaming.
        
       | b3lvedere wrote:
       | It still amazes me that these kind of 'illegal business models'
       | usually have a far better customer support than legal business
       | models :)
        
         | Telaneo wrote:
         | The illegal bushiness apparently has incentives to keep their
         | customers, while the legal ones rest on their legal monopoly-
         | laurels.
         | 
         | I'd imagine if we had a market where every service had access
         | to every piece of content, so no exclusivity, this problem
         | would go away. Then they'd compete on the quality of service
         | rather than their selection of content they've held hostage.
         | But as long as individual services can opt to not never share
         | their content with anybody else, they can just hold their
         | customers hostage, since they cannot get their good from
         | anywhere else, so the only options are buy or don't buy.
        
           | FinnKuhn wrote:
           | Shouldn't music streaming services be an example for a market
           | where each service offers pretty much the same products and
           | they compete on price and product alone.
        
             | Telaneo wrote:
             | Yes. Although there are some gaps, you have to go fairly
             | far out there to find them. Most everything is on every
             | music streaming platform. The music industry got that memo
             | after MP3 piracy became rampant.
             | 
             | But the video streaming platforms haven't gotten that memo
             | yet and prefer to dig themselves into a larger and larger
             | hole, both as far as normal Netflix style on-demand
             | streaming, and IPTV style streams for sports and such.
             | Hence why piracy of both are growing, with torrents on one
             | side and IPTV pirate streams on the other.
        
               | b3lvedere wrote:
               | Not that the music business has had some very shady
               | business in the past, but my guess is that the movie
               | industry is even more shady. Didn't the Harry Potter
               | movies make a gigantic loss on paper? Steve Jackson had
               | to sue the company to get his Lord of The Rings money, if
               | i'm not mistaken.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | Yup, "hollywood accounting" at its finest. It's
               | exploitative AF - established actors and other key staff
               | can demand percentage of gross revenue, everyone else
               | gets either a fixed amount or, worse, net revenue
               | percentage. But as there is always a fresh supply of new
               | desperates, you either take what is offered or you go
               | hungry.
               | 
               | Even the big unions have failed to put an end to this
               | unholy mess.
        
             | paol wrote:
             | They are, and that's exactly why music piracy fell off a
             | cliff in the streaming era and movie/tv piracy didn't.
             | 
             | "Piracy is a service problem" -- Gabe Newell
        
               | b3lvedere wrote:
               | If i'm not mistaken the people behind Spotify were also
               | some of the people behind The Pirate Bay, so they may
               | have had some seriously good insights on how to treat
               | your customers.
        
               | thatcat wrote:
               | it was what.cd, which is how they got their original
               | comprehensive catalog so fast
        
               | lfam wrote:
               | Citation?
        
               | tmerc wrote:
               | Not OP: https://gizmodo.com/early-spotify-was-built-on-
               | pirated-mp3-f...
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | The article said the Spotify CEO was CEO of uTorrent. And
               | Spotify used files employees got from The Pirate Bay. Not
               | what the HN comments claimed.
        
               | ThatMedicIsASpy wrote:
               | The music streaming services are also the easiest way to
               | pirate music.
        
               | CuriouslyC wrote:
               | I used to be a big digital music hoarder. I hate Spotify,
               | YouTube is the thing that killed music downloading for
               | me. It has pretty much everything worth listening to,
               | it's free, AdBlock keeps it usable, and it has a great
               | diversity of other content.
        
             | gorbachev wrote:
             | But they don't offer the same products. The UX and tools
             | are largely the same, or similar enough, but the product is
             | not the same. The product for streaming services is by and
             | large the content catalog they offer.
             | 
             | Each streaming service has their own exclusive deals with
             | publishers and offer a completely different catalog of
             | music/movies.
             | 
             | This is why pirate sites are far superior, because they
             | don't have those artificial limits on the product catalog
             | offered.
        
               | jonathanlydall wrote:
               | "Exclusive deals" in this context as analogous to
               | "monopolistic deals", the former term sounds less bad,
               | but in terms of consumer effect, "monopolistic" is a much
               | more apt word to use.
        
               | notyourwork wrote:
               | Music catalogs are nearly identical identical. Much
               | different from video streaming services where the
               | divergence is dramatic from one to another.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | > Each streaming service has their own exclusive deals
               | with publishers and offer a completely different catalog
               | of music
               | 
               | What? If a piece of music is on one streaming service,
               | it's on all of them.
        
               | brian626 wrote:
               | That may be true for bigger artists on major labels, but
               | for smaller independent bands it's not always the case. I
               | am a heavy user and fan of Bandcamp for listening to and
               | purchasing music but I use Spotify for listening in the
               | car and sharing playlists. I often find albums that are
               | only available on either Spotify or Bandcamp but not
               | both.
               | 
               | The ones that aren't available on Spotify tend to be
               | self-released but otherwise there isn't much of a
               | pattern. Albums not on Bandcamp, though, tend to be
               | mediocre at best.
               | 
               | And that's not even mentioning bands that are pulling
               | their music from Spotify in protest...
        
               | tmerc wrote:
               | That's unfortunately not true.
               | 
               | In the US, this song is unavailable on Spotify where I
               | found it, but available on YT music. Preface by Man
               | Without Country. Given another 5 minutes, I could also
               | find a song that is not listed on one but available on
               | another.
               | 
               | https://music.you tube.com/watch?v=bvWjybBBFYs
        
             | throawayonthe wrote:
             | that's partly how music streaming is so cheap (or even free
             | with ads)
        
             | embedding-shape wrote:
             | Not everyone uses every service equally, nor need the same
             | from each service. "Listening to music" is a broad spectrum
             | of activities in reality, and when I use streaming
             | services, I almost exclusively use them for discovery and
             | to find new music, and music I actually listen to more than
             | once is bought rather than streamed. So while for me the
             | single most important question for me is "How easy does
             | this service make it for me to find new music?", for
             | others, the question might be "What service streams the
             | highest quality?". This is besides the whole legal thing
             | with "What music is available there vs here" that others
             | already mentioned.
        
             | port11 wrote:
             | Catalog differences aside, I think that's a nice market to
             | analyse. Qobuz differentiates itself on audio quality,
             | Apple on its integration with iOS, etc. I do think they
             | ended up competing on price and product alone, except for
             | little things.
             | 
             | My GF's Spotify makes great playlists, but they deleted my
             | account twice and I'd never go back. So in that sense I'm
             | willing to pay extra for customer service, which many of
             | them don't care for. That's an interesting differentiator.
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | 20 year long patents are a large factor for it, designed for
           | a very different world where progress was extremely slow.
           | It's borderline absurd to keep them going today, they can
           | restrict the usage of a technology for more than the entire
           | duration of its usefulness before it's superseded by
           | something better, which is patented again, giving you a
           | series of sequential monopolies instead of a competitive
           | market. I'm glad that at least the Chinese dgaf about patents
           | so there is still some competition in practice even if
           | questionably legal.
        
             | Telaneo wrote:
             | The other large factor is copyright. If we had 21 year
             | copyright terms for shows and movies, I'd imagine someone
             | would have set up a streaming service with every show and
             | movie under the sun that they could fit into that, and
             | people would eat it up, since they often just want to half-
             | watch Seinfield, Friends, Star Trek, et cetera, since its
             | their comfort show. A service that can provide that without
             | being hostile is quite a lot of what many people look for
             | in a streaming service.
        
           | billy99k wrote:
           | What would be the incentive to pour millions of dollars into
           | a product,only to have virtually no way to make money or get
           | your investment back?
           | 
           | What would stop much larger companies, with more resources,
           | to just keep taking anything good from smaller
           | companies/startup?
           | 
           | This idea would last in the short-term, and once money dried
           | up, result in a nonexistent market.
           | 
           | Piracy sites are competing with other piracy sites and the
           | only differing factor is support.
        
             | Telaneo wrote:
             | > This idea would last in the short-term, and once money
             | dried up, result in a nonexistent market.
             | 
             | Tell that to the music industry. That is not without its
             | fault, but the products on offer are much better than the
             | movie industry has. The market is smaller than it once was,
             | i.e. there's less money flowing through the system, because
             | the consumer isn't being squeezed from every side. The
             | customer is being provided a better product for less money.
             | That's a good thing in my opinion. Having the market be
             | artificially inflated because everyone's got their own
             | small realm no-one else is allowed to touch without paying
             | a hefty licence fee is not a good thing in my opinion.
        
               | filleduchaos wrote:
               | I don't think "tell that to the music industry", an
               | industry where it is notoriously near-impossible for the
               | people who actually _create_ music to earn a living from
               | their work without signing a deal with a tiny handful of
               | record companies, is the ringing endorsement of "customer
               | getting service for pennies is good actually" that you
               | are portraying it as.
        
               | Telaneo wrote:
               | If you can't earn a living by creating music, then don't.
               | If you can't earn a living by creating movies, then
               | don't. If you can't make money writing books about the
               | intricacies of Unix system calls, then don't. You aren't
               | entitled to earn a living just because you create music,
               | movies or writings in our current society. If we're going
               | to have free market capitalism and not have UBI, then
               | that's the way the cookie's gonna crumble. Some
               | industries earn lots and are easy to make a living off
               | of, and other are never going to earn you a penny. Over
               | time, which one's are which start to change. It happened
               | to music. I believe it will happen to movies too, and
               | look forward to that day so the consumer can reap the
               | benefit.
        
               | filleduchaos wrote:
               | Wonderful! Again I fail to see how this is supposedly a
               | strong argument against this:
               | 
               | > This idea would last in the short-term, and once money
               | dried up, result in a nonexistent market.
        
               | Telaneo wrote:
               | The music market clearly still exists. There's no reason
               | to believe that the movie market will cease to exist.
        
         | nosianu wrote:
         | Many years ago I spent two months in Odessa, Ukraine. I lived
         | in a rented apartment not far from the pretty famous half open-
         | air book (and CD/DVD) market
         | (https://wanderlog.com/place/details/10511015/books-market).
         | 
         | I purchased a cracked Adobe product DVD there _(Disclaimer: I
         | actually had a license at the time, but didn 't have it
         | installed on that particular laptop)_. I had trouble installing
         | it, so I went back. I got my money back and help installing an
         | alternative on my laptop. Best service!
         | 
         | PS: Also, Odessa is _very_ beautiful, and I say that as someone
         | who has lived in some beautiful places. --
         | https://youtu.be/G-BkuEOFGKI (Odessa Walking Tour - Ukraine's
         | Most Beautiful City in 4K -- and this is still missing the many
         | wonderful inner courtyards, and the entire long wonderful beach
         | and park, which would be another equally long video)
        
           | egorfine wrote:
           | Ukrainian here. Odessa is indeed a city on another level.
           | Easily the best city in the country and incredibly nice in
           | the summer. Glad you liked it! <3
        
             | throwaway290 wrote:
             | I heard "was". due to destruction from russian attacks.
        
               | egorfine wrote:
               | Well, summer or not, it's not really comfy to walk around
               | a city during explosions happening right over your head.
               | Been there, done that.
        
           | Muromec wrote:
           | Upvoting this as an Odessit.
        
           | pwdisswordfishs wrote:
           | > I actually had a license at the time, but didn't have it
           | installed on that particular laptop
           | 
           | That reminds me of the time I had moved to another city. I
           | still had my old apartment but had brought most of my things
           | and was more or less officially moved and moved-in. Of the
           | stuff that I did still have at the old place was a lot of
           | food (non-perishables, oil, eggs) because it had been better
           | to leave it there for the time being instead of moving it all
           | (because food). When I was back in my old city to take care
           | of some business there and showed up to my old apartment in
           | the late morning one Sunday, I decided to make a big brunch
           | to use up a lot of the consumables. I needed a measuring cup,
           | though, and I no longer had one there. (It happens that the
           | one I did have at my new apartment was also cracked (in the
           | physical sense) from moving, so it actually wouldn't have
           | been any help, because even though I was going to fix it, I
           | hadn't gotten around to it.)
           | 
           | I went to the store and lifted one (same brand), since I knew
           | I had once already paid for one once.
        
             | nosianu wrote:
             | Except I would have been allowed to install it on that
             | laptop, I just didn't have the original media with me, and
             | I also did not care.
             | 
             | I also, again already having paid for the original license
             | years before, got a cracked Warcraft III Russian edition
             | (offline only, no BattleNet, obviously), so if you want to
             | tell more stories to show what a bad person I am, here is
             | one more to add.
             | 
             | I did watch a lot of movies in my life that I never paid
             | for though, so there is that. If they ever have one
             | reasonable ad-free subscription that covers them all (also
             | across borders, like Asian anime) I promise to sign up for
             | that. Haven't watched anything at all in over a decade
             | though, except for the occasional Twitch or Youtube. I
             | don't even have a TV.
             | 
             | I guess for some people making sure everybody follows _the
             | rules_ is more important than anything else. I admit that I
             | am the occasional rule breaker, including as a pedestrian
             | crossing a red light when I feel stopping all traffic just
             | for little me when there are plenty of large gaps in
             | traffic is more reasonable.
             | 
             | So yes, thanks for pointing that out, I'm not a model
             | citizen. I don't even feel bad about it. Also, physical
             | goods are obviously exactly the same, so your made-up story
             | is totally relevant, and nobody asks the question why you
             | changed it from a virtual to a physical good when you had
             | complete artistic freedom. Maybe your story would not be as
             | convincing?
        
               | pwdisswordfishs wrote:
               | I don't understand. (For example: what you mean "except"
               | and how much of a bad person you are and the tone of your
               | last paragraph?) It sounds like you're arguing with me
               | (and you think I'm arguing with you).
        
         | aqme28 wrote:
         | I have often found that the illegal sites have much better UX
         | for finding movies to watch. I can filter by review score, year
         | of release, genre, country of origin, or half dozen other
         | variables and in all combinations. And then they're presented
         | in a big readable table rather than five options I have to
         | scroll endlessly through one at a time.
        
           | pimeys wrote:
           | With usually the best reviews compared to Rotten Tomatoes
           | et.al.
        
           | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
           | Not true. My experience is the UX is okay to good, but often
           | there's click-bait ad-serving friction and distraction.
           | 
           | You never know if your search is get you what you want, bring
           | up a pop-up of HotLonelyBabes4U (when you're looking for kids
           | cartoons), or take you to a scam site that wants you to
           | download a "helper."
           | 
           | Aside from that, the experience is rarely _terrible_ - like
           | the trad video streaming sites that give you endless
           | horizontal scrolling lists sorted very broadly by topic, kind
           | of, with an entertaining randomness about the categories.
        
             | aqme28 wrote:
             | It sounds like we used different sites.
             | 
             | To be fair, a good adblock is MANDATORY on these streaming
             | sites.
        
         | joshmn wrote:
         | I've thought about this a lot. My takeaway is that it's
         | incredibly hard to scale personality--which I have in spades--
         | and even more difficult to give the freedoms for each customer
         | support individual to operate equally as themselves.
         | 
         | You can't build a playbook for friendliness, and people have
         | bad days which they certainly can drag into work. I am guilty
         | of this, too. The proceeding week after my mom died I was
         | rather terse, and have some uncomfortable memories of being
         | short and not living up to my own standards. I went so far as
         | to tell the person my situation and they told me that because
         | I'm providing a service I have to do better. This user in
         | particular was relatively new. If I recall correctly, he
         | churned.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | > _I went so far as to tell the person my situation and they
           | told me that because I 'm providing a service I have to do
           | better._
           | 
           | IMHO that's an asshole and not somebody you want as a
           | customer anyway.
        
             | joshmn wrote:
             | That was one of the lessons I took away was that not every
             | customer is a good customer. While I did have really
             | accessible customer service, I didn't want to be everything
             | to anyone, even if it left money on the table. The quirks
             | and features of the site where enough for the typical
             | Reddit user (at the time) to discern, more so than those
             | who were accustomed to official services, sports or
             | otherwise.
        
       | internet_points wrote:
       | His https://prison.josh.mn/self page was remarkably interesting
       | and insightful. Some nuggets:
       | 
       | > Contrast what society says rehabilitation is versus what it
       | actually feels like. How much of it depends on luck, personality,
       | or privilege?
       | 
       | > people want linear redemption stories, but real self-
       | improvement is messy, nonlinear, and impossible to A/B test.
       | 
       | > There's a certain freedom in owning your story publicly. People
       | can't weaponize what you've already made peace with.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | > I used to think ethics were a set of rules to follow. Now I
         | think they're more like tests--constant ones--that you run
         | against your own motivations.
         | 
         | Is the big one. And interestingly, single guys doing stuff that
         | is ethically defensible are at a larger risk of ending up in
         | trouble with the law than big corporations doing _far_ worse
         | stuff. So the lesson at a personal level is a completely
         | different one than at the corporate level, there it is  'what
         | we can get away with' versus 'what we should do to be good
         | citizens'.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | If you want to take a broad view of the world, we may be
           | entering into the post-age-of-enlightenment age where truth
           | and ethics are malleable in service of the larger powers
           | which build the things which comprise the world.
        
         | joshmn wrote:
         | Thanks for the sentiment.
         | 
         | The last quote in particular is rather timely: on Wednesday I
         | "came out" to the entire company that I work for with a cheeky
         | slideshow, which started as an "about me" during an all-hands
         | ("look, we have a new employee!") and then was like, "oh yeah
         | also..."
         | 
         | Being able to shape the narrative and tell my side of the story
         | before someone sees some of the slanted reporting has continued
         | to prove helpful. I even went so far as to say "I know people
         | Google their colleagues sometimes and that's cool just be aware
         | that the truth is usually in the middle of what the DOJ says
         | and what actually happened."
        
           | yard2010 wrote:
           | Josh you are a gift to our society. Too bad it's controlled
           | by crooked villains. Don't ever change.
        
           | pwdisswordfishs wrote:
           | > Being able to shape the narrative
           | 
           | Don't overestimate your success. I remember reading the
           | original prison post and (a) seeing how thick the attempt to
           | do that sort of "shaping" was, and (b) still coming away
           | thinking, "Just... wow" (not in a good way).
           | 
           | Even if it seems like you're winning because all you're
           | seeing is people falling over themselves to tell you how
           | awesome your story is and how awesome you are, take a look
           | around the room. If it's a room of 10 and the praise is
           | really only coming from 6 people, don't neglect to account
           | for the fact that there are 4 other people in the room who
           | are also capable of thought, and they probably have thoughts
           | (and the fact that they can see the other 6 people reacting
           | the way they are can be a factor in whether to voice them).
           | 
           | 8be5229b62d4a6631d6e4571845ffb0ca5e554dee569e04dbc299f2d72d42
           | 211
        
       | foofoo12 wrote:
       | > Send fun emails
       | 
       | Yes, do that. Also a tangent: remind me why you're sending me an
       | email if you haven't sent one in many months.
       | 
       | Sometimes I see an interesting project that hasn't launched. They
       | just have an "sign up for news updates".
       | 
       | Then 12 months later I get a standard news email and I have no
       | clue what it is and ignore it.
       | 
       | At least start your email with something like "Hey, 12 months ago
       | you signed up for the mega cool electron thunder splitter. We've
       | launched!"
        
         | joshmn wrote:
         | This one was really important to me. Even the transactional
         | emails were a bit fun to read. I kept them informal, as if I
         | was talking to a friend of a friend. I certainly swore in them,
         | too (at myself), when I was apologizing for things not working
         | right.
         | 
         | Occasionally I'd get replies saying that the person looked
         | forward to me automatically emailing them. That was a good
         | litmus test.
        
         | encom wrote:
         | >Send fun emails.
         | 
         | Eh... I lean towards "no" on that point, unless you can do it
         | well. I've received far too many reddit-tier fellow kids/omg so
         | random/cringe emails, and I hate it. An example from Queal (a
         | Soylent-style meal powder):                 Winter is coming in
         | Westeros and you must prepare by stocking up on food. Who knows
         | if Drogon will fly by and burn your storage of snacks. Or the
         | Night King will come to reign in the long winter. So prepare to
         | receive a package from *REDACTED* with tracking ID: *REDACTED*
         | You can keep an eye on the progress of your package with this
         | tracking link *REDACTED*.       People in the Seven Kingdoms
         | still use carrier pigeons, so please note it could take up to a
         | full workday for the link to become active.       Autumn will
         | end soon enough, be prepared!
         | 
         | Please just fucking stop. I really like their product, but
         | their emails make my blood boil. Don't be like Queal.
        
           | joshmn wrote:
           | Oh, that's gross. Mine weren't that fun. They were more
           | informal and usually self-deprecating (within good taste).
           | 
           | The closest to that was the quarterly newsletter: I'd
           | highlight the awful and frustrating bugs that nobody saw, and
           | some of the funny emails I got.
        
       | shevy-java wrote:
       | I would not call it a "piracy" streaming site.
       | 
       | I would call it a hero-site. That's what they are - they are
       | heroes for unrestricting information.
       | 
       | Take ublock origin. Now, many say it is an ad-blocker; the ublock
       | origin author says the extension is a generic content blocker. I
       | agree with that but I go further: I call ublock origin a hero-
       | blocker, or better, a heroic blocker. It blocks unwanted things
       | in general. For similar reasons I think the term "piratebay" is
       | old. It made more sense in the 2000s. Now I would call it
       | herobay.
       | 
       | People may wonder about those terms, but I think it is important
       | to use better terms than old terms. The old terms often were
       | hijacked by the law system and mega-corporations with their own
       | particular interests. It is time that the people re-define the
       | law. Law should serve the people.
        
         | patanegra wrote:
         | Pirating of course exists. You might rebrand it, but hardly as
         | hero-, more like theft-. Theftbay would sound good to me.
        
           | cwillu wrote:
           | Found the villain.
        
           | lazyfanatic42 wrote:
           | Copying isn't theft.
        
             | prasadjoglekar wrote:
             | Down the rabbit hole we go.
        
             | JohnLocke4 wrote:
             | Preventing someone from getting value out of their work is
             | theft - not matter how it is done. Copying a dead person's
             | work isn't theft because a dead person can't create value,
             | but stealing a dead person's car is still theft, because
             | something of value is gone.
             | 
             | Stealing a car you were never going to buy and making an
             | exact replica of a car you were never going to buy is two
             | entirely different things.
        
               | davedx wrote:
               | > Preventing someone from getting value out of their work
               | is theft
               | 
               | No, it's not. You (or random large media corps) do not
               | get to unilaterally redefine words of the English
               | language like that.
               | 
               | Pass whatever laws you want about it, enforce them
               | however you feel is appropriate, but don't try to
               | redefine language itself to push your agenda.
               | 
               | https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/theft
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | "IP theft" is not counter to that definition.
               | Intellectual property is a 'something'. That definition,
               | does not require depriving someone else of something. As
               | another valid example, see "identity theft".
               | 
               | Furthermore, English is not prescriptive; dictionaries
               | are a lagging reference of observed use... so yes, the
               | users of English absolutely do get to redefine language.
               | That's how all modern English words originated.
               | 
               | And finally, if your dictionary doesn't account for "IP
               | theft", you have simply found an incorrect dictionary,
               | because that usage is undeniably widespread -- whether or
               | not you agree with the concept politically.
        
               | Telaneo wrote:
               | > Intellectual property is a 'something'.
               | 
               | Good thing I don't recognise the existence of that. We
               | live in a society that does, and I despise that. At least
               | the EU has the sense to not recognise software patents,
               | so 'intellectual property' is not all-encompassing. Maybe
               | one day they can loosen the grip further.
               | 
               | > As another valid example, see "identity theft".
               | 
               | 'Identity fraud' is a much better term for what this is.
               | Someone using my name, phone number and my mother's
               | maiden name to get money in my name is not stealing my
               | name and phone number; it's just fraud. It's much closer
               | to lying than stealing.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | English is how people use English words. You can not like
               | it, but that is simply your opinion.
        
               | Telaneo wrote:
               | Never said it was anything but.
        
               | tmerc wrote:
               | "IP theft" is a contradiction.
               | 
               | https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/intellectual_property
               | https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/theft
               | 
               | Between these two pages, you should be able to understand
               | why "ip theft" is a bogus term. It's specifically called
               | out in the intellectual property article.
               | 
               | "Unlike other forms of property, intellectual property
               | can be used by infinitely many people without depriving
               | the original owner of the use of their property."
               | 
               | Whereas theft has this definition: "Theft is the taking
               | of another person's personal property with the intent of
               | depriving that person of the use of their property."
               | 
               | My not-a-lawyer understanding is that we use a common law
               | system in the USA. This means that the definitions for
               | things are based on history, previous cases, and the
               | statutes that have been codified into law. This is a good
               | thing because redefining words can make previously legal
               | actions become illegal. Allowing that to happen at the
               | pace slang develops in the modern era means we will hold
               | people to different standards based on how "hip" they
               | are.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | In a court of law, yes. In colloquial English (as cited
               | in the general English-language dictionary above), no,
               | the use is much more broad.
        
               | tmerc wrote:
               | Ways to prevent someone from extracting value out of
               | their work that are clearly not theft:
               | 
               | - murder
               | 
               | - kidnapping
               | 
               | - ddosing their site so they can't sell things
               | 
               | - carpet bombing their reviews with 1 star
               | 
               | - filing an injunction blocking the sale of their product
               | on bogus ip claims (aka copyright trolling)
               | 
               | - gaslighting them to the point where they think the idea
               | is worthless
               | 
               | - being the owner of IP that prevents them from selling
               | their IP
               | 
               | Probably others but I think that's enough to show your
               | definition is wrong.
        
             | Aurornis wrote:
             | If copying isn't theft then I guess we can stop worrying
             | about open source licensing. Anyone, including
             | corporations, would be able to take open source code and
             | copy it into their own products, reselling it without
             | consent or releasing their changes because they haven't
             | stolen anything, just copied it, right?
             | 
             | If you spend years of your life writing some software and
             | then it accidentally gets revealed to the world by mistake,
             | anyone can copy it and use it as their own? Because copying
             | isn't theft, theft they haven't stolen anything from you,
             | so you have nothing to complain about?
        
               | hamdingers wrote:
               | I can't tell if you're sarcastically describing the world
               | we live in or if you genuinely haven't realized all these
               | things happen regularly. Poe's law I guess.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | It isn't sarcastic. Copyleft depends on copyright law.
        
               | Telaneo wrote:
               | Copyright infringement isn't theft. It's illegal, but
               | it's not theft.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | It does not qualify as the legal offence of "theft" in
               | many courtrooms. It may be theft in colloquial English.
        
               | Telaneo wrote:
               | A pretty big part of theft is the victim no longer having
               | whatever is stolen. When I steal your car, phone, bike or
               | milk, you no longer have it, and no longer enjoy the
               | benefit of it. I'm fairly certain that's the part of
               | theft most people have a problem with. If I zap your car
               | and produce a perfect duplicate, and drive that duplicate
               | away, leaving your car as if nothing had ever happened,
               | other than minutiae like the VINs and licence plates
               | being identical, I cannot imagine anyone having a problem
               | with that. Nobody is going to call that theft. If you
               | still believe that's theft, then I cannot understand
               | where you're coming from.
               | 
               | This does not hold true for copyright infringement. When
               | I copy Die Hard 3: The Expendables' Return of the Jedi,
               | the original owner/copyright holder still has it. As they
               | still have it, I have not deprived them of their work or
               | good, and calling it theft makes about as much sense as
               | me making a copy of the milk in your fridge and taking
               | that copy.
        
               | hamdingers wrote:
               | It's not worth the effort. Anyone pretending not to
               | understand the distinction is being deliberately obtuse.
        
               | Telaneo wrote:
               | I should really be able to recognise that by now. This is
               | exactly the kind of discussion that has burned me out on
               | using certain platforms before.
               | 
               | Thanks for putting it in plain text.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | Nah, the people who pretend that definitions in a
               | criminal law book override natural linguistics are being
               | deliberately obtuse. Language exists mostly outside of a
               | courtroom.
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | > A pretty big part of theft is the victim no longer
               | having whatever is stolen.
               | 
               | No, colloquial English doesn't require this. e.g.
               | "Identity theft"
        
               | Telaneo wrote:
               | Given that identity fraud leads directly into what is
               | functionally actual theft (taking money out of you bank
               | account or taking up loans in your name and scarpering),
               | there's no wonder the term's confused. Doesn't make it
               | theft though.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | It isn't _legally_ theft, but because people commonly use
               | the word that way, it _is_ colloquially theft. The
               | qualifications are different. Legal crimes are defined by
               | law. English is defined by its common use. They 're not
               | necessarily the same thing.
        
               | Telaneo wrote:
               | Just as many wiki's are called Wikipedias, by analogy
               | with the biggest ones; that is, they aren't. Or maybe
               | more fitting here, the word 'download', which can mean
               | data transfer or modification in pretty much any way with
               | a person not knowledgeable about computers.[1] Those uses
               | aren't uncommon, but they are nevertheless wrong.
               | 
               | I think you just finished a circle there, so I don't
               | think there's much reason to continue this line of
               | enquiry, given neither of us is going to change our
               | stance.
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/download#Verb
        
               | BeFlatXIII wrote:
               | Good. Bacteria have the right idea about plasmid-
               | swapping. Information is meant to be collective.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | Of course, if you give people fewer incentives to share
               | their information they can and often will simply keep it
               | private. You can't copy information that people never
               | gave to you, regardless of the law.
        
               | tmerc wrote:
               | "they haven't stolen anything from you" correct by the
               | legal definition as my non lawyer brain reads it.
               | https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/theft
               | 
               | "so you have nothing to complain about" incorrect.
               | Copyright infringement is it's own crime with it's own
               | penalities.
               | 
               | The terminology section of this Wikipedia article is
               | quite informative on why copying is not theft according
               | to the US Supreme Court.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement
               | 
               | A big difference in theft vs copyright infringement is if
               | you go to jail or not (criminal vs civil). Again, not a
               | lawyer.
        
               | JuniperMesos wrote:
               | Yes this would be one of many consequences of a world
               | where copyright was actually killed or seriously ganked.
        
         | raincole wrote:
         | Really? Have you read this post at all?
         | 
         | This is a monetized streaming site that spams reddit users.
         | This is the hero in your mind? Is your philosophy that as long
         | as the legal IP holders don't get paid it's great?
        
       | relaxing wrote:
       | > My proudest growth hack involved Reddit's API. I filtered posts
       | mentioning phrases like "NBA League Pass," "blackouts," or "where
       | to" on team-specific subreddits. Then I gave my users lists of
       | those posts and encouraged them to comment--transparently--about
       | why they liked HeheStreams, including their referral link.
       | 
       | Any goodwill I felt towards this guy evaporated at the end.
       | Reddit spam, unraveling the social trust in user recommendations,
       | is a scourge. I'm sorry he wasn't sent to jail longer.
       | 
       | And as with most criminal cases, it's astonishing how little
       | money he made for his trouble.
        
         | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
         | Yeah the whole endeavor was pretty pointless no matter how much
         | the author is trying to glorify it as some kind of legitimate,
         | special, important business.
         | 
         | Big "Our amazing journey" vibes with this one. Except the
         | journey ended up in prison and all they have left to talk about
         | is how proud they were to spam Reddit with pirate stream links.
        
         | lifestyleguru wrote:
         | Yeah, thank you for breaking reddit. After their nuclear ban of
         | flagged accounts and disabling non-residential IPs I don't
         | bother to create account anymore.
        
           | joshmn wrote:
           | I'm sorry you got the idea that my users were spamming Reddit
           | with referral links. It was hardly like that and I personally
           | checked that every user was being tasteful, and sent "don't
           | spam" only a handful of times. I had alerts setup for each
           | source of referrer (via analytics) and for each one that came
           | from reddit (parsed by the ID of the post) I'd individually
           | check to ensure that it wasn't "bad," and that the user
           | wasn't just schilling--if an unreasonable (see: 3) last
           | comments were slinging a referral link, I'd straight up ask
           | them to remove them.
           | 
           | That probably doesn't change your perception--I, too, feel
           | like Reddit is pretty bad these days--but I felt the need to
           | say something anyway. I ran a pretty tight ship and had
           | placed a lot of importance on perception and reputation.
           | Building trust was important to my operation, from both a
           | growth standpoint and a customer service standpoint. When
           | shit broke (as it often did, considering I operated as the
           | mouse instead of the cat), my users took my word that an
           | attempted fix was in the works.
        
       | joshmn wrote:
       | Author here. This is funny to wake up to. A version of this
       | microsite was posted previously
       | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45434062) though it didn't
       | have much of the content that exists here.
       | 
       | If anyone has any general questions (it seems like my little
       | "startup lessons" page is as popular as the others) I'm be happy
       | to answer them as long as they're not too technical or related to
       | my finances. However, the specifics of the technical side of my
       | site are best found on TorrentFreak, and, in short: curl
       | commands.
        
         | _def wrote:
         | You wrote about "small, honest teams" - the older I get the
         | more I get the hunch that small teams/companies are a great way
         | to go for me. Basically, choose some field you enjoy working
         | in, with people you like. Any thoughts on how to find something
         | like this? I feel like its the kind of thing you have to start
         | yourself, but I can't take much risk.
        
           | joshmn wrote:
           | My experience in finding one (15 people at the company I'm
           | currently at, and I'm one of 3.5 engineers) (.5 because
           | founder still codes more than we'd like him to) was
           | effectively reaching out to companies that I knew didn't have
           | job postings up, and was the size that I'd fit into. I
           | learned quickly that not every vacancy is posted publicly.
        
             | chanux wrote:
             | > not every vacancy is posted publicly
             | 
             | Thanks for this insight, hopefully would help me.
             | 
             | Also, love the bit "small, honest teams". Aligns really
             | well with my biases.
        
         | twentyfiveoh1 wrote:
         | I was just just interested in how your "say no" lesson came
         | from the streaming site. I am sure they asked you for all sorts
         | of channels, but from their perspective, I kind of understand
         | it. I had really wondered what kind of crazy of stuff you were
         | shooting down. I didn't expect anyone to go too crazy on
         | expecting feature requests on a pirate site.
        
           | joshmn wrote:
           | The typical ones were things like MMA/UFC/boxing, and those
           | I'd say no to because their business model revolves around
           | PPV; things like NCAA sports I said no to because I refused
           | to profit off children (NIL didn't exist at the time) and
           | that the implementation would have required me to "integrate"
           | more than 5 different services just to attempt parity; I'd
           | get the occasional EPL or UEFA requests, too.
           | 
           | I really didn't have any significant demand for these. One of
           | my litmus tests, besides demand, was "okay, can this be as
           | good as the other sports' implementations?" I was always
           | concerned about feature parity--I could have provided radio
           | feeds for MLB but not for NBA, and that would cause people to
           | say "well they have radio feeds for x but not y" and create
           | confusion as to what is what. Being consistent in this regard
           | was important.
           | 
           | The run-of-the-mill IPTV requests came and went, and I just
           | wasn't interested in that. Ultimately I made the site for me
           | so I could watch sports, I just had some other people
           | watching with me.
        
         | blahaj wrote:
         | Were you aware of the risk you were getting yourself into when
         | you built heheStreams? Did you take any precautions and how did
         | you sleep at night?
        
         | msh wrote:
         | I don't understand how people think that they have a good
         | chance of getting away with something like this?
         | 
         | There must be safer ways to make good money?
        
           | joshmn wrote:
           | It wasn't about the money whatsoever.
        
         | dormento wrote:
         | Btw you ever got you gh acct back? Really shitty situation,
         | best wishes
        
           | joshmn wrote:
           | Thanks for asking. No, not yet, I'm working on introducing
           | myself to their legal team with hopes that they might be able
           | to take that as serious enough to believe I am me.
        
       | miki123211 wrote:
       | I recently learned that, just like most other businesses, a lot
       | of free pirate streaming sites are actually powered by a few big
       | content aggregators[1][2][3]. They don't do much beyond providing
       | a nice-looking frontend to an unauthenticated API that those
       | aggregators expose.
       | 
       | One could probably spin one of these up in an afternoon (if
       | making money was not the goal). The barriers of entry to this
       | ecosystem are a lot lower than I ever imagined.
       | 
       | Those aggregators serve their own ads (what you get through the
       | API is a link to a web player embed, not to the video directly).
       | I suspect that bigger sites get some kind of kickback for
       | bringing in traffic to those players.
       | 
       | [1] https://torrentfreak.com/mpa-highlights-rapidly-expanding-
       | hy... [2] http://vidsrcme.ru/ [3] https://streamed.pk/docs
        
         | joshmn wrote:
         | This is relatively new and an interesting business model.
         | There's also "piracy as a service"
         | https://torrentfreak.com/hollywood-and-netflix-signal-piracy...
        
       | jaffa2 wrote:
       | > My copywriting was tongue-in-cheek and self-deprecating. It was
       | all me, no bullshit. I treated every message--even transactional
       | emails--as an opportunity to build trust.
       | 
       | What does this mean? what is this 'trust' that is built ? how
       | does an email build 'trust' Is this to do with whether I beleive
       | the email came from where it says it does ? or somethign else. A
       | lot of this article seemed a little vague in the business
       | buzzword bullshit type way.
       | 
       | Bro, you gotta just build Trust(tm) for this one growth hack(tm)
        
         | joshmn wrote:
         | It's a bit vague, I'll admit. Users in this space are typically
         | plagued by poorly written emails, or emails that are still,
         | "Hello," if any greeting at all; they also often come from
         | noreplys and close you off from the operator.
         | 
         | By presenting myself as, well, myself, having an informal tone
         | (I mentioned to another user that I talked to everyone as if
         | they were a friend of a friend), and always closing with "if
         | you need anything just reply :)," it was a good way to reach
         | users and to establish the human element.
        
           | jaffa2 wrote:
           | I suppose its a manifestation of the old adage the people do
           | business with people. You are presenting as 'you', a human,
           | an individual that will give the personal touch. Not some
           | corporation that has 'departments' and acts as a faceless
           | churn machine.
           | 
           | Personally I'd rather have no emails of either type. Too many
           | emails these days about everything. No I don't want to review
           | X, or provide content for you (not you) for Y. I guess some
           | people like it though.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | I'd absolutely hate being on the receiving end of some of these.
       | e.g.
       | 
       | >I gave my users lists of those posts and encouraged them to
       | comment
       | 
       | A service doing this would instantly be on my shit list. I'm
       | trying to buy a service in exchange for money, not get spammed
       | about being someone's guerilla marketing team for free / and or
       | getting roped into a referral scheme.
       | 
       | I don't mind organically advocating for things I've had a good
       | experience with but not like this
        
         | joshmn wrote:
         | I replied to another comment about further context:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45845763
         | 
         | In short, I made sure that the subject matter was right--"how
         | can I stream the Lakers when I am in Los Angeles"--and that
         | there was no schilling. I ensured that users were otherwise
         | active in the communities that they were posting in, and that
         | it wasn't just spamming referral links. Everything had to be
         | tasteful or I'd kick them off the platform, which happened once
         | after the person told me they were going to do it anyway.
        
           | Havoc wrote:
           | Yeah I think it's a valid business strategy that you're
           | entitled to do and to be clear wasn't meaning to imply any
           | sort of ethical concerns.
           | 
           | Maybe this is a personal hangup my side but not a fan of paid
           | services trying to extract additional value via other routes
           | too - whether that's selling your data, taking up attention
           | by bombarding me with marketing, cross-selling, showing me
           | ads...or asking me to do guerilla marketing.
           | 
           | The closer companies stick to "I give you money, you give me
           | service" the better I judge them. Maybe I'm just jaded...
        
         | stronglikedan wrote:
         | > A service doing this would instantly be on my shit list.
         | 
         | Most people would just ignore it and move on if they didn't
         | want to participate. Sweating the small stuff is no good for
         | one's health. I personally don't dedicate any brain cells to a
         | shit list. Sounds stressful.
        
       | maxglute wrote:
       | The UI of some piracy streaming sites are better than legit sites
       | with much less hoops to jump through than torrents/Usenet or
       | region locked legal services for rare stuff.
        
       | tryauuum wrote:
       | > noreply@ is absolutely stupid.
       | 
       | the reason noreply addresses exist is to avoid endless autoreply
       | loops caused by poorly programmed mail software
        
       | Projectiboga wrote:
       | How did you get your reading material? Was it the facility
       | library, or just all ordered and mailed in?
        
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       (page generated 2025-11-07 23:02 UTC)