[HN Gopher] Skeena Indigenous Typeface
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Skeena Indigenous Typeface
Author : Bogdanp
Score : 53 points
Date : 2025-11-02 21:57 UTC (5 days ago)
(HTM) web link (microsoft.github.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (microsoft.github.io)
| mmooss wrote:
| Some of the history of Unicode here is interesting, and addresses
| questions I've long had, for example in the sections "Precomposed
| vs decomposed" and "Greek vs Latin". Also, the fuller
| descriptions (than in Unicode's documentation) of 'confusable'
| characters.
| throw_a_grenade wrote:
| > The form of the ogonek derives from a mediaeval scribal sign,
| the e caudata, and in European typography it follows the
| conventional writing of that sign in how it attaches to various
| vowel letters: [pic]
|
| > In North American indigenous use, positioning of the ogonek is
| informed by typewriter output, in which the backspaced sign was
| centered below the preceding letter. This positioning is retained
| in the typography of these languages [...]
|
| "We're so blinded by hate against Europeans we're going to repeat
| the limitation of another settler-originated technology just to
| make things different than everyone else."
| BigTTYGothGF wrote:
| > "We're so blinded by hate against Europeans we're going to
| repeat the limitation of another settler-originated technology
| just to make things different than everyone else."
|
| Of all the ways to interpret the article, this is certainly one
| of them, but don't you think it's a bit of a stretch?
| throw_a_grenade wrote:
| Maybe a bit. I just got triggered by the newspeak.
| BigTTYGothGF wrote:
| I don't see any "newspeak" in the part you quoted? (Jargon
| does not count)
| gdulli wrote:
| Does this now hold the record for being the smallest thing
| possible that someone's been triggered by?
| joshmarinacci wrote:
| This article went much deeper than I was expecting. Wow. I always
| wondered what native peoples alphabets looked like since the
| Latin alphabet was imposed on them by colonialists. Fascinating.
| int_19h wrote:
| In most cases, there was simply no native script to begin with.
| If you look at some examples of non-Latin-based scripts for
| native American languages (e.g. Canadian Aboriginal syllabics,
| Cherokee syllabary etc), they are all derived from newly
| introduced scripts. Mi'kmaw hieroglyphs are an interesting
| exception in that the glyphs themselves are indigenous, but
| their use as a full script was introduced from outside.
|
| Latin-based alphabets discussed in the article have mostly been
| introduced in the 20th century to facilitate the revival of
| those languages. Although I find that Salishian languages in
| particular got a very lazy treatment - if you look at some of
| the examples in the article like "?a?jeckhwot" or
| "?ay?ajuth@m", that's pretty much the
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanist_phonetic_notation
| taken as is without much consideration for ease of use or
| typographic concerns (SENCOTEN is a notable exception to this).
| Kind of ironic, since many of the typographic issues the
| article addresses stem from this original decision.
| cossatot wrote:
| There were no alphabets in the Americas before European
| contact. Mayan had written mathematics and hieroglyphics, and
| some Quechuan speaking peoples had string that had symbolic
| knots that had some mathematical representation (I don't know
| if it allowed arithmetic or was just record keeping).
|
| Sequoia developed the Cherokee syllabary (where symbols
| represent syllables instead of vowels/consonants) in the 1800s
| after seeing white men reading, and figuring out what they were
| doing (he spoke little English and could not read it). This is
| the first real written indigenous language in the Americas.
|
| The Skeena characters shown here are obviously derived from
| European characters, as was the Cherokee syllabary. I think
| most written forms of native languages in the Americas are
| similar.
|
| The Cree have a script which is far from European characters
| but was nonetheless developed for the Cree by a missionary in
| the 1800s. The Inuit have modified it for their language.
|
| I don't know much about indigenous languages in the rest of the
| world.
| awaymazdacx5 wrote:
| Encoding typeface in the unicode prior to placement of diacritics
| either in Greek or German should assert apostrophe marks in the
| U+ variation.
|
| Guess how many there are in a closed 64 bit ASCII language.
| doodlebugging wrote:
| I stepped into this post unsure about what I would find. I am not
| an expert on Unicode, foreign languages, etc. but I've seen a lot
| of typefaces used on signage so I decided to see what this post
| offered as far as new knowledge.
|
| I really enjoyed the depth of coverage. All the things that go
| into making a font that represents a language or culture and
| allows those who use that language to understand how to parse the
| characters into legible words.
|
| I think the one thing missing here is to link some of the Unicode
| characters to spoken words so that the reader can understand how
| the character or sequence of letters is pronounced in normal
| conversation amongst native speakers. That would help clarify
| some of the differences between placement of diacriticals or
| other marks.
|
| A long time ago (around 20 years) there was a radio program where
| one could tune in over the internet and listen to a short series
| called "Native Word of the Day". [0] A listener could hear native
| speakers pronounce words and use them in sentences so that the
| context of the exchange made sense. The website had a collection
| of words or phrases in quite a few indigenous languages and the
| reader could select a word from a list and hear similar content -
| the word itself, an example of how it is used in a sentence.
|
| There were several west coast languages, Iroquoian languages,
| Alaska Native languages, southwestern tribes, etc so one could
| get a feel for how each group saw the world based on the words
| they used.
|
| I used the site as a tool for teaching my kids how to pronounce
| unfamiliar words and to help them understand that there are many
| ways to look at the world. Seeing things through the lens of a
| foreign language can help bridge many gaps.
|
| I still remember one of the words (maybe actually a phrase) that
| I became fond of though I would need to dig through old notebooks
| to find the source language. It is pronounced kinda like this -
| new-ahna-go-wab-me though I don't remember the exact spelling or
| source language. That's probably a crappy pronunciation example
| so good luck. Maybe someone can find it somewhere.
|
| [0] https://www.knba.org/knba/2014-05-07/knba-re-introduces-
| nati...
|
| One may find an online station using this list:[1]
|
| [1] https://www.nativeamericacalling.com/station-affiliates/
|
| Anyway, Thanks OP for jogging my memory.
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(page generated 2025-11-07 23:01 UTC)