[HN Gopher] Optimism associated with exceptional longevity (2019)
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Optimism associated with exceptional longevity (2019)
Author : RickJWagner
Score : 67 points
Date : 2025-11-05 13:16 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.pnas.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.pnas.org)
| Insanity wrote:
| It makes sense to me, as the article also points out, being more
| optimistic might indicate lower levels of stress. And (prolonged)
| stress has been known for a long time to be detrimental to
| health.
| unionjack22 wrote:
| If anyone wishes to use this study as a catalyst to shift one's
| attitude, then I highly recommend dropping the dopaminergic
| doomloop apps like Reddit/Bluesky/X/tiktok/IG.
|
| Your life will be better for it. Snapchat can stay...for reasons.
| bix6 wrote:
| +1, I'm off the apps and it's been so liberating.
| forgetfulness wrote:
| Rage-engagement, something I never needed, and that I knew I
| needed out of my life, I just didn't know how much of a
| positive impact it would have to get off it. Sorry Zuck and
| Spez, but I know you'll be fine without a hatebuck or two.
| ajuc wrote:
| Social media like all addictions fulfill needs that you can't
| satisfy other ways in your current state. Mostly human contact
| and validation.
|
| If you start getting out there and communicating with real
| people on intimate level - most addictions melt away by itself.
|
| It makes more sense to focus on the root cause instead of
| fighting the symptoms.
| HEmanZ wrote:
| I disagree. Looking inward at myself at outward at addicted
| friends and family it does not fill any need.
|
| What it does is "hooks the attention" using outrage and a
| constant stream of dopamine hits.
|
| " If you start getting out there and communicating with real
| people on intimate level - most addictions melt away by
| itself."
|
| I highly suspect you are not an addiction specialist...
| coldtea wrote:
| > _I highly suspect you are not an addiction specialist..._
|
| Which also means they're not selling addiction help (which
| profits when addicts remain so), nor is indoctrinated to
| the professional fads of that racket
| unionjack22 wrote:
| It can be both. The further away I get from social media
| and its singular narratives where it's always "this ONE
| thing" form of causeality, the more I realize the
| mechanisms and causes can be multimodal and compound upon
| on another.
| WhyOhWhyQ wrote:
| Since someone else vocally disagreed, I'll just back this up.
| If you change your social situation (new job, new friends,
| etc...) then a lot of other changes seem to be easier, in my
| experience.
| jimbokun wrote:
| Getting off those apps is a good first step towards getting
| out there and communicating with real people on an intimate
| level.
| kernc wrote:
| What are the reasons for Snapchat? :.
| iberator wrote:
| Ladies
| aswegs8 wrote:
| Does not compute
| coldtea wrote:
| If you're above 25 (if not 20), Snapchat should be the last
| place to search for ladies...
| unionjack22 wrote:
| I(1992) keep it because my younger family members(Gen Z>)
| refuse to use anything else to communicate.
| TRiG_Ireland wrote:
| Instagram, for me, is mostly parkour and World Chase Tag clips.
| I don't love the way it's designed, but it isn't "doomy" (yet).
| lisbbb wrote:
| Based on my downvotes here, I'd say the reddit crowd and the HN
| crowd Venn diagrams overlap 99%.
| RickJWagner wrote:
| Great idea. I believe this is often suggested for people
| suffering depression.
| anself wrote:
| Pessimists are going to read this and call BS
| forgetfulness wrote:
| A truly committed pessimist would accept this dark omen.
|
| Anyway, this definition of optimism
|
| > or the belief that the future will be favorable because one
| can control important outcomes
|
| Isn't what one colloquially means by it.
|
| Though it is eye catching that it will make a positive impact
| even if you don't, actually, control important outcomes, like
| by not smoking
|
| > These relations were independent of socioeconomic status,
| health conditions, depression, social integration, and health
| behaviors (e.g., smoking, diet, and alcohol use). Overall,
| findings suggest optimism may be an important psychosocial
| resource for extending life span in older adults.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _A truly committed pessimist would accept this dark omen_
|
| Nah, that would be a fatalist
| jimbokun wrote:
| Surely there's some overlap?
|
| Don't know many optimistic fatalists.
| coldtea wrote:
| fatalist thinks whatever is to come will come and accepts
| whatever comes
|
| pessimmist thinks the worse will come - and is grumpy
| about it
| pinkmuffinere wrote:
| "It's all going to be great, and you can't change that no
| matter how hard you try."
| B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
| Exactly. Optimists are perpetually disappointed bitter people.
|
| Pessimists look at anything good as an unexpected bonus.
|
| All the good humorists are pessimists.
| cubefox wrote:
| So exceptional longevity causes optimism? That would make sense
| at least.
| snek_case wrote:
| It might also be something like: people who experience
| relatively little psychological distress are optimistic, and
| also live longer.
|
| We don't like to talk about it, but there is a biological
| component to how happy or anxious someone is. Not to say that
| everyone is doomed to be a certain way because of their
| genetics, but I've known people who are basically never sad,
| and it's not because they've found some kind of secret of
| happiness. I have a friend who has the temperament of a golden
| retriever.
| coldtea wrote:
| Or less stressing about things and giving less fucks causes
| longevity.
|
| Which makes even more sense, since stress affects all cause
| mortality and all kinds of outcomes, and even mere positive
| disposition towards a treatment is found to make a big
| difference in patients.
| RobotToaster wrote:
| Great, another thing to worry about.
| perrysmith wrote:
| Life is goooooood, man.
| fusslo wrote:
| Everything I've learned from psychology (and by this I mean
| watching psychology lectures from Yale and Stanford on youtube
| and reading the associated textbooks) makes me confident that I
| will have a short and unhappy life.
|
| Dr Bloom spoke about how your overall mood during college is a
| good predictor for how happy you'll be as a person throughout
| your life. He talked about the optimum time to get married is 26.
| He elucidated the idea of your prefrontal cortex solidifying
| around 25, making personality changes MUCH more difficult.
|
| Dr Sopolsky spoke about biological markers that may affect human
| behavior - both inherited and environmentally influenced.
|
| At 35 I am starting to suspect that I may be on the spectrum ( I
| kinda expected some adult to tell me this as a child, if it's
| true ).
|
| The males on my fathers side (with the exception of my uncle) do
| not make it past 67.
|
| My mothers side has inter-generational trauma that I know i've
| inherited avoidant behaviors that limit my social ability.
|
| So great news.
| jack_tripper wrote:
| _> Dr Bloom spoke about how your overall mood during college is
| a good predictor for how happy you'll be as a person throughout
| your life._
|
| Welp, I guess I'm dead then.
|
| _> around 25, making personality changes MUCH more difficult_
|
| Maybe it's just me but my personality keeps changing every year
| or so, based on the positive and negative experiences and
| challenges from living abroad alone, having to always adapt to
| new stuff to stay mentally, financially and socially afloat.
|
| I assume it's different if you spend your whole life in the
| same place you grew up in with the same people doing the same
| things. Maybe the brain checks out from the repetition.
|
| _> avoidant behaviors that limit my social ability_
|
| Move aboard to another country where you don't speak the
| language.
| HEmanZ wrote:
| If it's true then this is a propensity and not a rule.
|
| My mood in college was suicidal. My mood by my 30s was better
| than most people I've ever met (sans hiccup from a year of no
| sleep with a newborn).
|
| Looking back my horrible mood in college was probably caused
| by isolation, no sleep, high pressure course load, and too
| much alcohol. And I've noticed my mood drops dramatically
| when I get it in my head that I need to be more successful,
| at any point in my life.
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| It's probably you! My personality has been basically the same
| since I was 4. I also live abroad and have for the past 5
| years, though, so I guess I just lucked out and got a
| personality that works well in most conditions and with most
| people.
| danaris wrote:
| > the idea of your prefrontal cortex solidifying around 25
|
| ...which is bunk; the studies that are cited as showing this
| actually showed changes in the prefrontal cortex up to _the
| oldest people in their study_ , which was 25-year-olds.
|
| Current research suggests that it continues changing throughout
| our lives.
| fusslo wrote:
| is it? thats good to know - the lecture series I watched was
| recorded in 2008
| hirvi74 wrote:
| Mine does not work that well, and I am in 30s. So, I keep
| hoping for better days. Maybe it's a biased take, but I feel
| like I have seen some better changes in my 30s and my 20s.
| 80hd wrote:
| There's nothing wrong with being unhappy, IMO - you can still
| channel those emotions into something meaningful.
|
| But if you do want to be happy, you can find stories, if you
| look hard and long enough, of "outliers". People who, against
| all odds, defied "statistics" and broke out of whatever
| expectations society and "facts" projected onto them.
|
| I tried "everything" until age ~27 when I finally found one
| dial (very specific elimination diet) that made the rest of my
| body act mostly normally. Other changes were easier to make
| from that point onwards, altho there's a lot of damage to undo
| still. Diet is just one factor, for others it could be
| completely different.
|
| My point is - I thought I would never be healthy. This stuff
| runs in my family too. But I just kept trying things. There's
| no other option.
|
| You are a unique human being and soul who has something
| valuable to contribute to this world. Even if that's being
| unhappy.
|
| Hope that doesn't sound condescending, it's something I tell
| myself too.
| antegamisou wrote:
| > Dr Bloom spoke about how your overall mood during college is
| a good predictor for how happy you'll be as a person throughout
| your life. He talked about the optimum time to get married is
| 26. He elucidated the idea of your prefrontal cortex
| solidifying around 25, making personality changes MUCH more
| difficult.
|
| Some of this sounds more like ideology and less science,
| especially when deterministic tendencies are getting mixed up
| when talking about psychology.
|
| > Everything I've learned from psychology (and by this I mean
| watching psychology lectures from Yale and Stanford
|
| Also interesting that sensationalized statements always end up
| coming from places like that, exclusively pertaining to the
| rotten individualist lifestyle in the United States.
| johnrob wrote:
| Research focuses on trends. You are a sample of 1, however, so
| anything is possible. Create your own path!
| coldtea wrote:
| > _Everything I 've learned from psychology (and by this I mean
| watching psychology lectures from Yale and Stanford on youtube
| and reading the associated textbooks) makes me confident that I
| will have a short and unhappy life._
|
| By making this prediction you already run afoul of the findings
| in the article!
|
| > _At 35 I am starting to suspect that I may be on the
| spectrum_
|
| I mean, the ample parentheticals in your comment are proof
| enough :)
| bix6 wrote:
| 67 is still almost 7 decades of life!
|
| What're you doing for fun?
|
| I was miserable in college but I've made significant changes
| since that have made me way happier.
|
| I think changes are possible at any stage of life. They just
| might require more commitment since we're so spongy as kids.
| f1shy wrote:
| This is also my experience. I was miserable from 13 until
| 35yo. Then made big changes.
|
| I think it is extremely dangerous to make that affirmations,
| that may take away any hope some depressed folk may have,
| being 25 and having a hard time.
|
| The rationale about 25 years and the cortex should be much
| better explained, I think.
| jimbokun wrote:
| Do none of those lectures mention interventions to affect those
| outcomes?
|
| It may be that those things are all predictive on average,
| because most people don't take steps to change them.
| anechouapechou wrote:
| > He elucidated the idea of your prefrontal cortex solidifying
| around 25, making personality changes MUCH more difficult.
|
| It's true that neuroplasticity tends to decline around this
| age, but there are several important caveats:
|
| - Exercise, especially cardiovascular exercise, promotes the
| release of BDNF (brain-derived neurotrophic factor), which
| enhances neuroplasticity. Consistency matters, regular aerobic
| activity raises baseline BDNF levels, while sporadic exercise
| only causes short-term spikes. Studies even show that long-term
| cardiovascular exercise can alter brain structure.
|
| - Belief in your ability to learn is associated with better
| learning outcomes and higher neuroplasticity markers. Whether
| this comes directly from belief or from the behaviors it
| encourages, it's still practical advice. Don't entertain
| thoughts that you can't adapt or learn -- especially during
| exercise.
|
| - Psychedelic experiences (with substances such as psilocybin,
| ketamine, or LSD) can open what's called an "acute neuroplastic
| window". During this time, brain network dynamics become more
| flexible and neuroplasticity increases. Surround yourself with
| the right people, ideas, books, during this period, and it can
| lead to dramatic positive change. But as this state can amplify
| both constructive and destructive influences, proceed with care
| and good research.
| smokel wrote:
| You mention somewhere else that the lectures you watched were
| from 2008. That was probably at the height of the _replication
| crisis_. I 'd suggest to look into more recent research, and/or
| to simply discard all this knowledge as bogus.
| elevatortrim wrote:
| Have these males exercised for about 2-3 hours per week? If no,
| and you do not have this consistency too, that's one thing
| that's relatively simple to add to your life, which will also
| increase your overall happiness. That alone probably adds
| another 5 years and pushes your healthy lifespan forward too.
| id wrote:
| It wouldn't surprise me if healthy, privileged people with access
| to good healthcare are more optimistic than those with serious
| illness, no coverage and three shitty jobs.
|
| Hard to be optimistic when you have cancer and can't afford
| treatment.
| antegamisou wrote:
| Yeah I also feel introducing some social class - income level
| variable would help clear things up.
| jimbokun wrote:
| > These relations were independent of socioeconomic status,
| health conditions, depression, social integration, and health
| behaviors (e.g., smoking, diet, and alcohol use). Overall,
| findings suggest optimism may be an important psychosocial
| resource for extending life span in older adults.
| ekropotin wrote:
| Yep, immortal billioners is exactly what our society needs right
| now.
| aswegs8 wrote:
| Gahd damn billioners
| viach wrote:
| X -> Optimism, Optimism -> Longevity
|
| Can't wait for a research which reveals the X.
| ponector wrote:
| X is a rich family. Hard to be an optimistic person if you
| struggle to afford to live.
| giantg2 wrote:
| Well I'm screwed
| OutOfHere wrote:
| This seems like a rather obvious case of "correlation is not
| causation". Moreover, the vocabulary of optimism vs pessimism
| doesn't capture that one can work diligently to avoid pessimistic
| outcomes, so does that make one optimistic or pessimistic? After
| adjusting for the correlation, I suspect realists will have the
| highest longevity.
| didibus wrote:
| I suspect optimism is learned to some extent. Past experiences
| and outcomes shape your optimism, because it skews your bias.
|
| People who had good things happen and got lucky get more
| optimistic as that's their experience.
|
| If true, it might be that good genetics and environment gives you
| exceptional longevity, and also increases your chances of good
| outcomes at every step of your life which in turn make you an
| optimist.
|
| Off course, I'd love to believe it's your mindset that affects
| outcomes, as it would give you control over your destiny, but
| it's precisely because that truth is so tempting that I'm extra
| skeptical of it.
| dleary wrote:
| This sounds like it should be true, but from life experience, I
| don't really think it is.
|
| It would be rational for things to work that way, but
| personalities and emotions are not very rational.
|
| There are some people who seem like they have everything in
| life going for them, and they're still pessimists, their
| narrative of the world is petty and ugly, or cruel.
|
| Conversely, there are other people who have suffered tragedies
| that I might consider literally unbearable (i.e. suicide-
| worthy), and they are still optimists.
|
| I think these are more fundamental personality traits. You can
| see it in siblings that grow up in essentially identical
| conditions, but one has a "sunny disposition" and another is
| anxious and worried.
| pksebben wrote:
| Dissatisfying take: It's both true and untrue.
|
| Your mindset absolutely has an _influence_ on outcomes - how
| you come off to other people influences how they react to you
| and treat you. How you look at a problem influences whether you
| decide to engage with it, and how.
|
| This exists in a gradient space - some things are more readily
| influenced in this way, others are not, a few are (nearly)
| completely untouched.
|
| Existence, that is - the Universe, is a complex system. We know
| at least a few things about those:
|
| - they behave in unintuitive ways. Attempting to predict the
| behavior of a complex system has an inverse relationship with
| the granularity and specificity of the prediction.
|
| - the behavior of the whole is unrepresentable in the behavior
| of the constituent parts (you cannot drive an axle to work,
| unless it is part of a car)
|
| - they are very resilient against attempts at control, but more
| susceptible to influence
|
| - they can exhibit features like recursion, inertia, and
| attraction. Each of these has specific consequences for the
| behavior of the whole.
|
| The relationship between outlook and outcome is bidirectional -
| one influences the other and vice versa. This structure has a
| high chance to exhibit recursive reinforcement, which is why I
| think we're used to seeing very optimistic and very pessimistic
| outlooks, with not so many 'middle-of-the-road' types. It does
| provide a lever to push, however, if one has the fortitude to
| push through the failures on the way to that tipping point.
| fellowniusmonk wrote:
| I shouldn't be here, the first 20 years of my life were
| essentially every bad thing, defective body, I had my first
| birthday party at 30, dead parents, stolen and exploited
| childhood, moving all the time, constant mortality threat,
| waking surgeries scenarios that spiral some adults into ptsd.
| Long term thwarted desires because I couldn't get health
| insurance without being a wage slave pre ACA. Co-founded my own
| succesful company the moment I could get ACA.
|
| I have a brain and as my wife once told me in a moment of
| frustration.
|
| "You're just happy to be here" and that is true. I didn't ask
| to be born and I've generally not enjoyed it, I'm only here
| because random luck geographically and temporarily allowed me
| to just squeak by surviving childhood and adolescents, I am a
| few years away from a cardiological surgery I could easily die
| in.
|
| But, it's all so damn funny isn't it, what an odd thing to be
| alive, a little cluster of atoms arranged human wise. I hope I
| die not having achieved what I want to achieve, I hope, like
| sharks, I never keep moving.
|
| Humans generate meaning, we are the known, empirically observed
| generators of the mosy complex meaning in existence and we
| still don't know and haven't created most stuff, it's early
| days yet.
|
| People will say we aren't special, but we are, special and rare
| and should be preserved, dolphins, et all should be too, but
| let it be observed that it will be humans and not dolphins that
| deflect asteroids for the foreseeable future.
|
| Many times when things got bad I thought I'd kill myself, I
| woke up from so many surgeries I started getting disappointed
| when I'd wake up, but I was too damn curious about what happens
| next, I can always end it tomorrow, nbd, I look forward to the
| perma nap, I'm an accident that shouldn't exist and I can exert
| casual leverage on the world with mere speech.
|
| Who knows what the future holds, let's give dolphins thumbs,
| let's give silicon rockets to explore the universe, let's
| engineer long life so we can start worrying about solving
| entropy instead of whether or not a single spinning rocks "mid
| air collision" or 5 degree increase in temperature will cause
| total societal collapse and put an end to our weird little
| epicenter of meaning generation.
|
| Maybe we solve entropy, maybe we figure out how to change the
| topology of spacetime, maybe we don't, it's too early to tell.
| pojzon wrote:
| Who would have thought that less stress is good for your health.
|
| Mire news at 10.
| lisbbb wrote:
| My father is 84 and is among the most cantakerous people ever
| born. It's a sample size of 1, but he is a counter example since
| he's never had a single moment of optimism is his entire life!
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