[HN Gopher] New South Korean national law will turn large parkin...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       New South Korean national law will turn large parking lots into
       solar farms
        
       Author : thelastgallon
       Score  : 141 points
       Date   : 2025-11-02 15:12 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (electrek.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (electrek.co)
        
       | pingou wrote:
       | We have a similar law in France. Something is unclear to me
       | though:
       | 
       | "build a conceptually similar, 657 kW solar carport system across
       | 12 parking lots (shown, above) that delivers more than 1.23
       | million kWh of clean, emissions-free power annually and offsets
       | the equivalent of 185,000 vehicles' worth of harmful carbon
       | emissions."
       | 
       | Not sure what that means but that doesn't seem right.
        
         | _aavaa_ wrote:
         | Which part?
         | 
         | 12 parking lots
         | 
         | 657 kW nameplate capacity
         | 
         | 1.23 GWh per year of energy production
         | 
         | The 185,000 cubicles worth of CO2 emissions is likely based on
         | average pollution per car, and average carbon intensity of the
         | local grid.
        
           | pingou wrote:
           | The average emissions for a car is 4.6 tons of co2. The
           | average carbon intensity of U.S. electricity generation is
           | around 384 grams of co2 per kWh. 1230000 * 0.384 / 1000 = 472
           | tons. But 185000 cars emit 851000 tons so 500 tons is like a
           | rounding error, unless I am mistaken.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | Either it's a full on hallucination or they intend the
             | power to be used to charge electric vehicles. Which is a
             | stretch because solar parking isn't going to sell that many
             | electric vehicles. It will sell some, but not _that_ many
             | more.
        
         | thelastgallon wrote:
         | The complete sentence for context:
         | 
         | "Here in the US, we're proving that out, too - the Northwest
         | Fire District in Arizona partnered with Standard Solar to build
         | a conceptually similar, 657 kW solar carport system across 12
         | parking lots (shown, above) that delivers more than 1.23
         | million kWh of clean, emissions-free power annually and offsets
         | the equivalent of 185,000 vehicles' worth of harmful carbon
         | emissions."
        
         | imoverclocked wrote:
         | I have to wonder if they are taking into account the AC usage
         | or other factors to get there; When you park in the shade, you
         | don't have to cool your car down nearly as much. This effect is
         | greater in hot deserts with lots of sun. There are likely other
         | benefits to the vehicles and infrastructure.
        
       | jandrese wrote:
       | Generally the problem with carpark solar is the mounting
       | solutions are low volume niche products that cost way more than
       | traditional ground mounts. My biggest hope is that this policy
       | creates a marketplace with actual competition that comes up with
       | more cost efficient mounting solutions that make it practical
       | worldwide.
       | 
       | Parking lots are horrible. They're butt ugly heat islands that
       | take up way too much space. While adding solar on them doesn't
       | solve the last issue, it does help mitigate the heat island
       | effect and solar panels are no less ugly than asphalt. Plus it is
       | power creation right next to where it is being consumed for
       | minimal transfer losses. It's also much nicer for the vehicles
       | parked there to be in the shade.
        
         | csdreamer7 wrote:
         | > It's also much nicer for the vehicles parked there to be in
         | the shade.
         | 
         | Pedestrians too.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | I love the idea but execution will determine if this is
           | better for pedestrians. Poorly executed parking solar could
           | reduce sightlines and escape routes by crowding ground level.
           | 
           | Hopefully this will be the sort of thing where we try
           | different strategies quickly and pick winners and losers.
           | 
           | India has done a lot of work with covering irrigation canals
           | with solar, and in some ways that's a simpler problem so it
           | makes sense that this is happening now instead of earlier.
           | Big successful systems start as small successful ones. Maybe
           | there is some substantial knowledge transfer that can occur
           | there.
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | Depends on the season!
           | 
           | In winter I'd park my car at a train station and be sure to
           | have the windshield pointed west so the car would be a bit
           | toasty when I got in.
        
         | testing22321 wrote:
         | I'd much rather look out across a city and see solar panel
         | islands rather than a coal smoke stack belching smoke, a nuke
         | cooling tower or a massive dam.
         | 
         | Just because old school power generation is often out of sight,
         | it shouldn't be out of mind
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | I don't mind nuclear. Good for base load.
        
             | boshomi wrote:
             | Base load becomes very expensive under free and fair market
             | conditions. The reason is simple: wind and PV are extremely
             | cheap, and surplus capacity costs little. PV module price
             | in EU is just 0.086 UDS/W fob. Wind turbine price in China
             | ~2200Yuan/kW inclusive tower.
             | 
             | In a free market, this leads to attractive conditions for
             | batteries, and that is where the problem of base load
             | begins: there is a lack of real demand, and base load then
             | remains unused because its OPEX cannot compete with wind
             | and PV.
             | 
             | There's just one problem. There is virtually no free and
             | fair market in the electricity market. Utilities lobby very
             | successfully for highly regulated markets to protect their
             | monopolies. Nuclear power requires massive government
             | protection from competition, which makes it attractive to
             | utilities.
        
               | tbrownaw wrote:
               | This is a prediction of the future, not an observation
               | about the present / past like it's phrased as.
        
               | boshomi wrote:
               | no, this are real world prices
               | 
               | https://www.infolink-group.com/spot-price/
               | https://wind.in-en.com/html/wind-2462559.shtml (chinese
               | example)
               | 
               | BESS 5MWh 52 USD/kWh: https://www.metal.com/Battery-Cell-
               | And-Module/202407100001
               | 
               | Yes, electricity is becoming very cheap in China, and it
               | will be difficult for the West to keep up here.
               | Exorbitant US tariffs are also counterproductive, as they
               | only serve to secure monopoly profits for old utilities.
        
               | hinkley wrote:
               | We are already cresting that hill. It's happening now.
               | It's not happening everywhere, but it's already
               | happening.
        
               | fellowmartian wrote:
               | Nuclear is attractive? Are we living on the same planet?
               | I wish it was attractive but it's quite obviously the
               | opposite.
        
             | seb1204 wrote:
             | Base load is something of the past. Base load does no
             | longer exist as such as during daytimes the solar curve
             | will / should push it to zero as surplus capacity is cheap.
             | Running base load plays at night is then also no longer
             | sensible.
        
             | Reason077 wrote:
             | > _"I don 't mind nuclear. Good for base load."_
             | 
             | Everyone who has an electricity bill or pays taxes should
             | be against new-build nuclear power because it is pretty
             | much the most expensive way to produce electricity. You
             | should instead lobby for wind, solar, and even closing coal
             | power plants in favour of modern natural gas plants. All of
             | those will cut more emissions, more quickly, per dollar
             | spent.
        
           | hk1337 wrote:
           | Do _you_ see any of those things now?
        
             | testing22321 wrote:
             | Personally, no. My brother does. My sister does.
             | 
             | Hundreds of millions of people do, and their health would
             | improve if they didn't.
        
               | dvdkon wrote:
               | I understand the complaint against coal power plants, but
               | you're not saying that nuclear power plant or large dams
               | cause health issues, right?
        
               | bad_haircut72 wrote:
               | large dams do have pretty big environmental effects
        
               | lazide wrote:
               | None of them that impact people's health.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | Not even remotely true.
               | 
               | <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Banqiao_Dam_failure>
               | 
               | <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam_failure#List_of_major_
               | dam_...>
               | 
               | And that's just the _direct_ impacts from failure. Long-
               | term environmental costs are real, if indirect.
               | 
               | I write this somewhat reluctantly as hydro _is_ carbon-
               | neutral,* and affords one of the better energy-storage
               | options, as pumped hydro. Even allowing that dam failures
               | tend to occur under regimes with significant
               | organisational issues (low trust, low public concern, low
               | levels of organisation, conflicted interests), dams have
               | a pretty horrific track record for direct fatalities.
               | Almost all those risks _are_ mitigatable, and the
               | underlying root cause (organisational dysfunction) would
               | likely create similar risk patterns for _other_ energy
               | modalities. But we have a direct history to point to.
               | 
               | I've written on this topic a few times at HN should you
               | or others be interested, I do hope my thoughts come
               | across as nuanced, as they in fact are:
               | 
               | <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=fals
               | e&qu...>
        
           | ACCount37 wrote:
           | I don't mind things like huge cooling towers or massive dams.
           | They're majestic in the same way ancient pyramids are
           | majestic. On top of being useful infrastructure and not just
           | oversized landscaping pieces.
        
             | thelastgallon wrote:
             | The asteroid that hit the planet and made dinosaurs go
             | extinct was pretty majestic too! It was a sight to behold:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq3nWnTkFbk
             | 
             | 1.1 to 1.2 billion tons of coal ash are produced each year
             | globally from 9 billion tonnes. These are pretty majestic
             | for kids to roll in and have fun.
        
               | Forbo wrote:
               | ACCount37 expressly left out the coal smoke stacks from
               | their description, so I'm not sure why you chose to focus
               | solely on that and throw it back in?
        
               | thelastgallon wrote:
               | What are cooling towers for if not for coal smoke stacks?
        
               | ascorbic wrote:
               | Nuclear
        
               | cultofmetatron wrote:
               | the clouds comming off nuclear towers is literally just
               | steam. not radioactive steam. just.... steam
        
               | hvb2 wrote:
               | That's not even unique to nuclear. Gas and coal can have
               | them too. Typically they're only used if the other source
               | of coolant is not sufficient.
               | 
               | For example, you take in cooling water from a river. When
               | the river gets too hot in summer you want to use that
               | cooling tower to evaporate water to provide additional
               | cooling.
               | 
               | Which also explains why it's steam
        
               | wakawaka28 wrote:
               | What about the billions of tons of solar panels that turn
               | to toxic garbage every 20 years or so, and can't yet be
               | recycled? Not to mention the huge amount of land consumed
               | by solar farms.
        
             | JoeAltmaier wrote:
             | Trivial national production compared with a single dam.
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | The problem with dams is that for the most part in the
               | West all the good sites near population centers have been
               | taken. In developing countries you have the issue of new
               | dams potentially making older downstream ones less
               | useful, which is now a real conflict point with Egypt vs
               | Sudan vs Ethiopia, Afghanistan vs Iran, China vs India
               | and SEA, etc.
               | 
               | In addition, because silt will back up in reservoirs
               | there are an increasing amount of old dams where removal
               | makes more sense than spending more money on dredging and
               | maintaining the dam; and with droughts becoming more
               | common hydro is not as reliable for baseload anymore.
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | Let's also not forget about the haze of photochemical smog
           | everywhere there are combustion vehicles.
           | 
           | Today I walked by someone dropping off people from his diesel
           | VW Passat B6. You could smell that thing from afar and it
           | bothers me that it's still considered roadworthy.
        
             | DANmode wrote:
             | Diesel particles are _heavy_.
        
           | rayiner wrote:
           | What's wrong with a nuke cooling tower?
        
             | rainsford wrote:
             | I admit this is subjective, but they're giant ugly concrete
             | chimney-like structures spewing stuff into the air. Sure,
             | intellectually I know it's just water vapor and they're
             | form is dictated by their function, but they _look_ like
             | they belong in some pollution riddled dystopian hellscape.
             | 
             | I'm actually pro-nuclear power, but the cooling towers are
             | a pretty significant eyesore and a non-trivial downside.
             | But apparently some people hate the way wind turbines look
             | while I think they're sleek and futuristic looking, so
             | taste as ever is subjective.
        
           | lazide wrote:
           | I'm not aware of any sizable cities with coal smoke stacks,
           | nuke towers, or visible large dams.
           | 
           | Are you?
        
           | awesomecomment wrote:
           | I personally don't know but I feel like, we also need to
           | think of the environmental changes of something like solar
           | batteries if we store the energy
           | 
           | There was a michael moore's documentary regarding climate
           | change and I personally think that the best solution climate-
           | wise speaking is probably nuclear but the whole world's
           | sentiment is so regulated by lobby-ists which is why the cost
           | of production of them and regulations shot up to an
           | unreasonable amounts but the world was already transitioning
           | to nuclear energies.
           | 
           | There are some new modular approaches to it which aren't as
           | efficient but feel safer to the general public but nuclear is
           | one of the most safest and compact sources of massive amounts
           | of energy generation compared to solar and wind.
           | 
           | Nuclear Energy is cool.
           | 
           | Now am I right/wrong in saying this, let me know, I think I
           | am right but I maybe wrong too, but its just that every
           | expert I have seen on this topic really prefer's nuclear and
           | my own "research" on this topic makes me feel the same
           | really.
           | 
           | Somebody should write more clearly as to why nuclear is
           | superior to solar and the others as a comment as I feel like
           | I have written similar things atleast once more and maybe if
           | there could be a nice website like why.nuclear or why-
           | nuclear.net etc. which could give points of why nuclear is a
           | superior form, it could be really great and I would love to
           | hear more arguments both good and bad comparison with nuclear
           | (primarily) and maybe comparing it with solar if somebody's
           | an expert on this topic as I would love to hear an expert
           | about it as well.
        
           | deadbabe wrote:
           | What if we designed nuclear cooling towers to be more
           | aesthetic? Maybe it would become desirable to see.
        
         | shermantanktop wrote:
         | > solar panels are no less ugly than asphalt.
         | 
         | Matter of taste. But I find geometric rows of tilted rectangles
         | much less noisy (visually) than a zillion random cars, or an
         | acre of cracked asphalt.
        
           | circuit10 wrote:
           | I think maybe it was supposed to say "no more"
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Solar operators aren't cranking the bass so high that the
           | windmills are leaving rust shadows on the road at stop
           | lights.
           | 
           | Well, at least not so far.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | Some stores build parking for peak traffic days and a few
         | people have suggested that it would be better if the outer bits
         | of your lot were built using permeable pavement to reduce the
         | amount of runoff that has to go onto the storm sewers. The
         | little rain gardens we see now do something but not much.
        
         | Reason077 wrote:
         | > _"the problem with carpark solar is the mounting solutions
         | are low volume niche products that cost way more than
         | traditional ground mounts."_
         | 
         | Yes, but if you're building shade canopies over the parking lot
         | anyway (this is quite common in southern Europe, for example)
         | the marginal cost to add solar to the design will be relatively
         | small. And if the government is backing it, production volumes
         | will rise so it's no longer a niche product. Economies of
         | scale.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Solar already has economies of scale. There are three types
           | of projects called out in How Big Projects Get Done and what
           | they all have in common is that what you do on day 25 is
           | mostly refinement of what you were doing on day four. Those
           | are roads, solar, and wind projects. The self similarity
           | means you are more likely to hit your targets. Because you
           | just go faster and faster as you figure out the choreography.
           | And the known unknowns.
        
         | apparent wrote:
         | Will self-driving cars cut down on parking lots? Seems like
         | they'll be much smaller/denser once the car can even just self
         | park (don't have to leave room on left/right for opening doors,
         | and can even stack tighter/front back as long as you're smart
         | about shuffling them).
         | 
         | And of course, once more people are using self-driving cars
         | instead of owning their own, cars will have less idle time
         | spent in lots.
        
         | Scoundreller wrote:
         | No matter what, the canopy solar system will be more expensive
         | than ground mounting. You have to build for more wind loading.
         | For a car to crash into it and not fall over. And now that the
         | public is around, build that much stronger to never fall over.
         | And secure the wiring that much better against the public.
         | 
         | Better to replace some farmland, which you can make a strong
         | argument for if you're growing crops for biodiesel or fuel-
         | ethanol were the sun-to-wheel efficiency is terrible.
         | 
         | > Parking lots are horrible. They're butt ugly heat islands
         | that take up way too much space.
         | 
         | I've got bad news about nearly black PV panels... it might be
         | cooler under them, but around them is a different story.
         | 
         | My personal thought is to saturate rooftops before going for
         | the poorer ROI parking lot PV canopies.
        
           | wakawaka28 wrote:
           | >Better to replace some farmland, which you can make a strong
           | argument for if you're growing crops for biodiesel or fuel-
           | ethanol were the sun-to-wheel efficiency is terrible.
           | 
           | Yeah, who needs to eat anyway? Lol it is perfectly fine to
           | put this shit in parking lots. In hot climates, it's a
           | benefit to customers to have covered parking. The wiring
           | should be no more fragile than, say, power lines or lighting
           | fixtures in the area. Parking lots are also better because it
           | doesn't matter as much if water leaks between or around the
           | solar panels. Putting them on rooftops tends to cause roof
           | leaks and it presents problems for roof repairs.
           | 
           | >I've got bad news about nearly black PV panels... it might
           | be cooler under them, but around them is a different story.
           | 
           | Higher temps around black PVs should be similar to black
           | asphalt. Also, the thermal mass of the PVs is lower, so they
           | will not stay as hot in the evening.
           | 
           | There are probably issues with PVs related to ice buildup and
           | hail. They probably don't make sense in places with those
           | issues.
        
       | thelastgallon wrote:
       | This is not a bad idea. EVs can charge during the day, go home
       | fully charged, connect to the grid and supply power to the grid.
       | EV batteries are humongous and a large number of them will become
       | an energy reservoir. All excess production during the day (which
       | is being curtailed now) can be stored in Evs and reused later
       | throughout the day.
       | 
       | The best thing is that EV owners can be paid during the day for
       | providing demand and paid again in the evening and at night for
       | supplying.
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | > The best thing is that EV owners can be paid during the day
         | for providing demand and paid again in the evening and at night
         | for supplying.
         | 
         | How would this work? Who is then paying for the solar?
        
           | thelastgallon wrote:
           | The utility. The utility operates a 24/7 electricity
           | marketplace that perfectly matches supply and demand. Supply
           | must follow demand. If demand decreases, pricing becomes
           | negative until supply decreases. This is problematic because
           | we aren't utilizing all the excess energy generated by solar
           | and wind. Which is all free.
           | 
           | Wholesale prices went negative about 200 million times: https
           | ://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/trapped-r...
           | (https://archive.is/nFsOk)
           | 
           | Regional clusters emerged, for example, in the Permian Basin
           | in western Texas, and in Kansas and western Oklahoma in the
           | Southwest Power Pool (SPP), negative prices accounted for
           | more than 25% of all hours. Negative electricity prices
           | result either from local congestion of the transmission
           | system leading supply to exceed demand locally or due to
           | system-wide oversupply.
           | :https://emp.lbl.gov/publications/plentiful-electricity-
           | turns...
           | 
           | Edit: This is called curtailment. It is now ~20% and
           | increasing:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtailment_(electricity)
        
         | somedude895 wrote:
         | That's exactly what I want is for my car's battery to be
         | drained overnight.
        
           | wffurr wrote:
           | What about the top 10% or 20%? It would be just like using
           | "reserve mode" but you'd get paid for it. And have the option
           | to turn it off before a road trip.
        
             | redserk wrote:
             | And have extra wear on your battery that would far outweigh
             | anything you'd get out of it?
             | 
             | I'm down about 18% capacity after 4 years of owning my
             | current EV. It's still plenty for my needs but I would be
             | very disappointed if I saw this capacity drop much sooner
             | or if it drops much more.
             | 
             | A replacement would be ~$15k and the cost of replacing the
             | car would be a lot greater.
             | 
             | I'm very much digging the current strategy of grid-tied
             | batteries and the myriad of companies working to re-use
             | battery packs for grid batteries.
        
               | PlunderBunny wrote:
               | If it's any reassurance, I think the consensus is that
               | the rate of degradation of your battery will slow
               | considerably once it gets past 20% (of the order of 1-2%
               | per year, i.e. the battery will outlast the rest of the
               | vehicle by a long way) [0].
               | 
               | 0. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/07/heres-one-way-we-
               | know-t...
        
           | scotty79 wrote:
           | I think it's perfectly sensible to charge it at work to full,
           | then partially discharge in the evening after coming back
           | home. Especially since that energy could mostly power your
           | own home. If you have enough left in the morning to drive
           | back to work it would be fine.
           | 
           | Basically you would haul (hopefully cheap) electricity form
           | your work, to your home to use it in the evening.
        
           | thelastgallon wrote:
           | If you set the app to allow it to be drained overnight, then
           | it may be drained overnight. Similar to forgetting to pump
           | gas into the tank and getting stranded in the middle of
           | nowhere. Most people are a bit smarter than that.
        
         | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
         | V2G is a pipe dream. Nobody has gotten out of the pilot program
         | phase, largely because the return on investment isn't
         | convincing. If you can't make a profit off it it doesn't
         | happen.
        
           | fluoridation wrote:
           | Seems like an easy solution would be for the car to provide
           | energy for the house, rather than the entire grid, and reduce
           | overall load.
        
             | baq wrote:
             | Not too much of a difference if the house is connected to
             | the grid.
        
               | fluoridation wrote:
               | What do you mean? If the house takes less energy from the
               | grid (compared to doing nothing) it's effectively the
               | same as if the house uses the same energy while also
               | feeding the grid with the car's battery. The former,
               | however, takes less additional infrastructure.
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | It means you don't need any mechanism to compensate the
               | vehicle owner for using their battery.
        
           | thelastgallon wrote:
           | Oh yes, the return on investment is very convincing for most
           | of the big companies! Like Uber: https://uberlosses.com/
        
           | majoe wrote:
           | > V2G is a pipe dream.
           | 
           | Seems a bit early to come to this conclusion, but I would
           | also suspect, that the value of a parking garage full of EVs
           | is not in providing energy to the grid but as a large scale
           | consumer for load shaping.
        
         | nandomrumber wrote:
         | Paid for supplying demand!
         | 
         | I'll believe that when I see it.
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | Spot pricing in energy markets goes negative when there is
           | too much energy in the grid. Someone gets paid to take it
           | out.
        
             | nandomrumber wrote:
             | Never the retail customer
        
         | Youden wrote:
         | I'm an EV owner and homeowner and looked into V2X when planning
         | my solar/residential battery system.
         | 
         | On the home side, the hardware is largely there. The charger
         | I'm buying and many others support it - though many need a
         | future software update. On the vehicle side though, it's very
         | inconsistent; there are only a few vehicles that support it and
         | even for those, what my installer told me is that the
         | manufacturer warranties typically either void the warranty
         | entirely if V2(G/H) is used or harshly limit the amount of
         | energy that can be used. They're concerned that it will lead to
         | excess wear on the battery, the main component of an EV.
         | 
         | And I think I agree with them. With current battery technology,
         | I don't think using EVs as a grid-scale storage system for
         | renewables is viable. For grid-scale or residential storage,
         | you want a battery that can be as heavy and physically large as
         | it needs to be but it needs to deal with a lot of
         | charge/discharge cycles. Your best option here right now is
         | LiFePO. For the kind of EV people are generally willing to buy
         | right now, you need to cram as much range into the car as you
         | can, which means the battery needs to be as energy-dense as
         | possible and charge/discharge cycles are less of a concern.
         | That means LiPo.
         | 
         | I think the most realistic use of EVs for grid-scale
         | integration is what they're calling "virtual plant", where
         | they're treated like a separate source of energy that the grid
         | can tap into in exceptional situations.
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | > That means LiPo.
           | 
           | IIRC the most popular EV battery technology today is LFP.
        
         | ungreased0675 wrote:
         | This seems really inefficient, everyone transporting around a
         | bunch of excess capacity? Smaller, lighter, cheaper electric
         | cars paired with a properly built and resilient grid seems like
         | a better goal to me.
         | 
         | They'd wear out roads less, use less resources to make, be
         | safer to others in crashes, etc. I dislike the trend of
         | increasingly larger vehicles just to move a single person
         | around 87% of the time.
        
           | seb1204 wrote:
           | Yeah, most commutes are less than 100 km but would you buy a
           | car with 100-200km range? How's your range anxiety?
           | 
           | I'm not so sure about less resources as the majority of the
           | car is still required only smaller battery.
        
       | jansan wrote:
       | A quick reminder that South Korea is closer to the equator than
       | Spain or Greece.
        
         | metabagel wrote:
         | And South Korea is at about the same latitude as Tennessee and
         | North Carolina.
        
           | jansan wrote:
           | I will never stop to amaze me how far to the south the USA is
           | compared to Europe on average. I live near Berlin and even
           | most Canadians live further to the south than me.
        
             | scotty79 wrote:
             | Europe is uniquely hot for how far North it is. It's due to
             | Gulf Stream and we might lose it at some point as the
             | climate change progresses.
        
               | laurencerowe wrote:
               | The West coast is much more similar though. Paris is at a
               | latitude between Seattle and Vancouver while San
               | Francisco is a little south of Lisbon. Both have pretty
               | comparable climates.
        
             | jldugger wrote:
             | In contrast, it will never amaze me how far north Europe
             | is. Canada weather is cold and yet y'all live even further
             | north!
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | Gulf Stream.
               | 
               | AMOC collapse will be brutal.
               | 
               | <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_meridional_overtu
               | rnin...>
        
         | aegypti wrote:
         | That is generally _worse_ for PV potential, clouds, rain etc
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | Being further north does have some advantages. If the panels
           | are angled more to get a better view of the sun they will
           | also be better at shedding snow loads.
        
             | lostlogin wrote:
             | There was a recent discussion here on vertical panels. The
             | data was better than I'd have guessed.
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45414215
        
             | whatevaa wrote:
             | The amount of power you get from panels in winter is
             | pathetically low with or without snow.
        
         | testing22321 wrote:
         | It doesn't matter. I'm in Canada in a tight valley where it
         | snows a ton and my rooftop solar makes $1000 of power a year.
         | Solar is so cheap now, and still falling, it makes sense
         | literally everywhere.
        
           | whatevaa wrote:
           | You have a big peek in early summer/late spring and a
           | nosedive during winter. Still need generation capacity for
           | winter.
        
           | tejohnso wrote:
           | Why aren't new developments including rooftop solar as a
           | standard selling feature? If it makes sense it should be a no
           | brainer right? Your new $800,000 home comes with a solar
           | installation so you never pay for heating, cooling, power
           | supply.
        
             | thelastgallon wrote:
             | New homes should be built with
             | 
             | 1) EV chargers or 240V outlets in the garage
             | 
             | 2) Heat pump water heater
             | 
             | 3) Heat pump for HVAC
             | 
             | 4) Induction stove
             | 
             | 5) Solar panels, better yet, solar roofs
             | 
             | 6) Main panel that supports V2X (vehicle to home, to grid)
             | 
             | 7) Ethernet cabling throughout, we can make most devices
             | PoE, also enable smart home
             | 
             | This can eliminate $ 1,000+ energy bills, which are now
             | split between gas bills for two cars, natural gas for the
             | water heater, heating, and cooking.
        
               | Muromec wrote:
               | Sounds a lot like actual building requirements in the
               | Netherlands, except 6 and 7, because the city hall hates
               | cars and doesn't care much about IOT
        
             | mattlondon wrote:
             | I believe this is due in the UK (from 2027) which is quite
             | far north from the equator: new homes need a certain
             | percentage of the roof covered in solar cells.
             | 
             | It won't be enough to be self sufficient but it does offset
             | a bit I guess
        
               | edent wrote:
               | My London-based solar panels make us (net) self
               | sufficient across the year.
               | 
               | They produce about 3,800kWh every year - which is bang on
               | the average home electrical consumption.
               | 
               | Even in winter they offset our bills by a decent amount.
        
             | ACCount37 wrote:
             | Labor and permitting costs.
             | 
             | Those are already a large part in housing costs, and
             | rooftop solar panels? That's both roofing work and
             | installation of advanced electric equipment. And the market
             | doesn't seem to have that many people who base their buying
             | decisions on whether the house has solar panels installed.
             | 
             | Labor costs are going to stick around until we get humanoid
             | robots to work well. But the permitting situation could
             | sure benefit from a lot of regulation being purged.
        
       | jopsen wrote:
       | Their new law requires parking lots with more than 80 spaces to
       | have solar panels.
       | 
       | Great idea, where I live I'm pretty much maxing out the
       | percentage of permitted structures allowed by zoning.
       | 
       | I could imagine that if solar panel carports didn't count towards
       | structure limits, I'd build a carport across my absurdly large
       | driveway :)
       | 
       | I think there are lots of "free" ways we could incentivize
       | private construction of solar panels -- even without monetary
       | subsidies.
       | 
       | Or we could even tax people for not doing it. In Denmark your
       | land is taxed based on what it's zoned for, and how it could be
       | utilized (not how it is utilized).
        
         | FooBarWidget wrote:
         | I hope this doesn't result in new parking lots to
         | "coincidentally" only have 79 parking lots.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Some of us wouldn't minds so much. That puts a cap on how car
           | focused commercial real estate can be.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | I think I would like it if it better if it were an either or.
         | 
         | Either solar panels, or rain gardens, or permeable pavement, or
         | canopy, or some combination.
         | 
         | But then again that might make loopholes that make my head
         | spin. Might have to leave the higher rung up to organizations
         | like LEED and leave the minimums as one or maybe two choices.
         | Maybe make the other harder than solar unless you have a weird
         | situation where say adding trees is simpler than running power
         | distribution, like across the street from the shop.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | This happened pretty organically in south africa, especially on
       | malls.
       | 
       | * Prevents being affected by grid blackouts
       | 
       | * Seen as progressive / eco by customers and ofc shade
       | 
       | * You've got captive demand - air-conditioning giant mall & food
       | shops need industrial fridges
       | 
       | * Enough scale to do meaningful grid feed in
       | 
       | * Already have the infra to do generator switch over
       | 
       | * Access to financing and ability to plan over the 10 years or so
       | that it takes to recover cost
        
       | rurp wrote:
       | I wish the IRA infrastructure bill from a few years ago had
       | included something like this. Not the total mandate, but these
       | should be subsidized and encouraged. These installations actually
       | improve an area and have multiple benefits. Instead the US bill
       | incentivizes detroying large swaths of wild land which is
       | unfortunate.
        
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