[HN Gopher] Printed circuit board substrates derived from lignoc...
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       Printed circuit board substrates derived from lignocellulose
       nanofibrils
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 19 points
       Date   : 2025-10-27 16:03 UTC (6 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
        
       | throwup238 wrote:
       | I suspect this material is dead on arrival because they don't
       | compare how fire retardant it is compared to FR4 or evaluate
       | whether it meets the UL 94V-0 fire safety standard.
        
         | Arrath wrote:
         | Good point but perhaps coatings or impregnated fire retardant
         | compounds can be utilized?
        
       | Y_Y wrote:
       | > The research outlines the process of fibrillating lignin-rich
       | cellulose pulp at 10 kW/h per kg into LCNF
       | 
       | That unit doesn't look right.
       | 
       | Why can't we all just use SI anyway :(
        
         | elcritch wrote:
         | That is SI? Well metric. Sounds like the liganization process
         | uses electricity to create. There's similar units used in
         | electrochemistry to indicate how much energy is required.
        
         | jchw wrote:
         | 10 kilowatts is 10,000 watts, which is 10,000 joules per
         | second. So... 10,000 joules per second per hour per kilogram.
         | Wait... _What_? What in the hell does  "10kW/h" mean?!
         | 
         | Hopefully they meant kWh. Kilowatt-hours per kg makes a ton
         | more sense. That's just a measure of energy spent per unit of
         | mass produced, right?
         | 
         | (P.S.: though all things considered, it seems a shame that we
         | use kilowatt-hours instead of something simpler like
         | kilojoules... but I guess that would be harder to intuit in
         | some cases?)
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | _This study underscores the potential of wood-derived
       | nanomaterials like LCNF to reduce electronic waste (e-waste)
       | associated with conventional PCB materials and promote the
       | development of a more eco-friendly electronics, contributing to
       | sustainable, high-performance ecoPCBs and advancing green
       | technology._
       | 
       | So many trendy eco-virtue-signaling buzzwords, but as anyone who
       | has worked with attempting to repair FR-1/FR-2 (SRBP) PCBs will
       | tell you, they've been making them out of cellulose-derived
       | materials for around a century; but they just aren't very good.
       | 
       | "Sustainable" = "doesn't last very long and is impossible to
       | repair, sustaining the business of selling you a new one".
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | I've heard the rayon process, which can take (m)any natural
         | fiber source and convert it into something vaguely like a
         | synthetic silk, has quite a pollution footprint. The more you
         | have to process the fibers to be like a niche or synthetic
         | fiber the more it becomes greenwashing.
         | 
         | Method Inc went through a phase where they made containers out
         | of virgin materials because the overall ecological footprint
         | was several times better than the best we could hope for
         | plastic recycling, and that was before we found out plastic
         | recycling is half sham. A lot of the trick was making thinner
         | containers out of specialty materials that were lower volume
         | than the waste stream from plastic recycling. Eventually they
         | figured out a recyclable material that is as light as the
         | disposable ones, so they get the best of both worlds.
         | Unfortunately they only use those for hand soap refills.
        
         | xg15 wrote:
         | Yup, this was also what irked me in the rationale of this
         | paper: Combatting e-waste is a good cause, but this is not what
         | the paper is doing - it's _alleviating some of the harmful
         | side-effects_ of e-waste.
         | 
         | The root cause that I'd like to see addressed is an industry
         | that has incentives to churn out unrepairable throwaway
         | electronics. But stuff like this that try to greenwash e-waste
         | would make it _less_ likely that the root cause is addressed,
         | not more.
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | We've got people making circuits from woody plant fibers and
       | people making circuits from microbes that eat woody plant fibers.
       | 
       | Definitely want to keep those two factories separate. And don't
       | get the former wet.
        
       | Stratoscope wrote:
       | This story gives me nightmares!
       | 
       | Why? I recently had a repair bill of more than $12,000 for my Kia
       | EV6, after rats got under the hood and chewed through a critical
       | wiring harness.
       | 
       | Of course rats will chew through most anything, but the EV6
       | apparently has soy-based insulation on the wiring instead of
       | traditional plastic. So it is extra tasty for rats!
       | 
       | GEICO covered everything beyond my $1000 comprehensive
       | deductible, but I don't want to be thought of as an irresponsible
       | policyholder, especially with the great rate they gave me on this
       | car - literally half of my previous policy.
       | 
       | So I have taken extensive countermeasures. If anyone is curious,
       | feel free to ask and I will list them.
        
         | rtaylorgarlock wrote:
         | Jaw dropped on reading this. The biodegradable Mercedes
         | harnesses of the 90s followed the Volvo harnesses of the 80s
         | (iirc). I thought we'd worked that out of the automotive
         | engineering world by now. I'm not funded by the petroleum or
         | rubber industry, yet i also can't help but wonder what would
         | drive technical product managers to make a notable error?
         | Wiring issues in cases aren't cheap problems to fix, nor do
         | they fix themselves, nor increase longevity...
        
       | variaga wrote:
       | Not one mention of the material's dialectric constant
        
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       (page generated 2025-11-02 23:00 UTC)