[HN Gopher] Tim Bray on Grokipedia
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Tim Bray on Grokipedia
        
       Author : Bogdanp
       Score  : 95 points
       Date   : 2025-10-31 21:41 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.tbray.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.tbray.org)
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | Why give it oxygen?
        
         | mensetmanusman wrote:
         | It's great idea to share knowledge bases collected and curated
         | by LLMs.
         | 
         | Amazing that Musk did it first. (Although it was suggested to
         | him as part of an interview a month before release).
         | 
         | These systems are very good at finding obscure references that
         | were overlooked by mere mortals.
        
           | simonw wrote:
           | "It's great idea to share knowledge bases collected and
           | curated by LLMs"
           | 
           | Is it though?
           | 
           | LLMs are great at answering questions based on information
           | you make available to them, especially if you have the
           | instincts and skill to spot when they are likely to make
           | mistakes and to fact-check key details yourself.
           | 
           | That doesn't mean that using them to _build_ a knowledge base
           | itself is a good idea! We need reliable, verified knowledge
           | bases that LLMs can make use-of.
        
             | smcin wrote:
             | Crucial to distinguish between knowledge, fact, claim and
             | allegation. Compare:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk#Assassination
             | 
             | https://grokipedia.com/page/Charlie_Kirk : Assassination
             | Details and Investigation
             | 
             | This is an active case that has not gone to trial, and the
             | alleged text messages and Discords have not had their
             | forensics cross-examined. Yet Grokipedia is already citing
             | them as fact, not allegation. (What is considered the
             | correct neutral way to report on alleged facts in active
             | cases?)
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | > collected and curated by LLMs.
           | 
           | Wah? LLMs don't collect things.
           | 
           | I mean, if any of these AI companies want to open up all
           | their training data as a searchable archive, I'd be all for
           | it.
        
         | meowface wrote:
         | To play devil's advocate: Grok has historically actually been
         | one of the biggest debunkers of right-wing misinformation and
         | conspiracy theories on Twitter, contrary to popular conception.
         | Elon keeps trying to tweak its system prompt to make it less
         | effective at that, but Grokipedia was worth an initial look
         | from me out of curiosity. It took me 10 seconds to realize it
         | was ideologically-motivated garbage and significantly more
         | right-biased than Wikipedia is left-biased.
         | 
         | (Unfortunately, Reply-Grok may have been successfully partially
         | lobotomized for the long term, now. At the time of writing, if
         | you ask grok.com about the 2020 election it says Biden won and
         | Trump's fraud claims are not substantiated and have no merit.
         | If you @grok in a tweet it now says Trump's claims of fraud
         | have significant merit, when previously it did not. Over the
         | past few days I've seen it place way too much charity in right-
         | wing framings in other instances, as well.)
        
           | pstuart wrote:
           | The problem of debunking right-wing misinformation is that it
           | doesn't seem to matter. The consumers of that misinformation
           | _want it_ and those of us who think it 's bad for society
           | already know that its garbage.
           | 
           | It feels like we've reached Peak Stupidity but it's clear it
           | can (and likely will) get much worse with AI videos.
        
             | bawolff wrote:
             | I think there is a problem sometimes that "debunkers" are
             | often more interested in scoring points with secondary
             | audiences (i.e. people who already agree with them) than
             | actually convincing the people who believe the
             | misinformation.
             | 
             | Most people who believe bullshit were convinced by
             | something. It might not have been fully rational but there
             | is usually a kernel of something there that triggered that
             | belief. They also probably have heard at least the surface
             | level version of the oppising argument at some point
             | before. Too many debunkers just reiterate the surface
             | argument without engaging with whatever is convincing their
             | opponent. Then when it doesn't land they complain their
             | opponent is brainwashed. Which sometimes might even be
             | true, but sometimes their argument just misses the point of
             | why their opponent believes what they do.
        
               | pstuart wrote:
               | "You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not
               | reason himself into in the first place."
               | 
               | Fox (and others like it) offer 24/7 propaganda based on
               | fear and anger, repeating lies ad nauseam. It's highly
               | effective -- I've seen the results first-had.
               | 
               | Making ad hominem attacks against "debunkers" doesn't
               | make your case.
               | 
               | And again, trying to change people's minds by telling
               | them what they believe is wrong is a fools errand (99.99%
               | of the time). But it still needs to happen as that
               | misinformation should not go unchallenged.
        
               | meowface wrote:
               | This is very, very true. The best debunkers avoid being
               | hostile and make the other side feel like they're being
               | heard and that their feelings and fears are being
               | validated. And they do it in a way that feels honest and
               | not condescending and patronizing (like talking to a
               | child). They make frequent (sincere) concessions and
               | hedges and find as much common ground as they can.
               | 
               | Although he's more populist-left and I'm more
               | establishment-liberal (and so I might find him a bit
               | overly conciliatory with certain conspiracy theorists),
               | Andrew Callaghan of Channel 5/All Gas No Brakes
               | demonstrates a good example of this in the first few
               | minutes of this video: https://youtu.be/QU6S3Cbpk-k?t=38
        
             | Freedom2 wrote:
             | One of the rallying cries of the right is "facts don't care
             | about your feelings", but it's interesting how the facts
             | either get distorted or ignored.
        
               | netsharc wrote:
               | "Charlie Kirk..."
               | 
               | "Waaahhh! How fucking dare you!"
               | 
               | Kimmel made fun of Trump talking about his ballroom when
               | being asked about Kirk, and the right got offended and
               | mad. Although it's not about feelings, it's more about
               | exploiting a tragedy to advance their goals (in this case
               | getting a critic like Kimmel off the air).
        
             | meowface wrote:
             | On one hand, yes, you're completely right.* On the other
             | hand, there is an obligation for something or someone to do
             | the job of pointing out the info is wrong, and how and why.
             | Even if it makes most of them believe it even more strongly
             | afterwards, it's still worse for it to go constantly
             | unchallenged and for believers to never even come across
             | the opposition.
             | 
             | *(The same is true of left-wing conspiracy theories. It's
             | silly to pretend that right-wing conspiracy theorists
             | aren't far more common and don't believe in, on average,
             | far more delusional and obviously false conspiracy theories
             | than left-wingers do, but it's important not to forget they
             | exist. I have dealt with some. They're arguably worse in
             | some ways since they tend to be more intelligent, and so
             | are more able to come up with more plausible
             | rationalizations to contort their minds into pretzels.)
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | Wikipedia is probably in the running for one of the greatest
           | contributions to public knowledge of the past 100 years, and
           | that's a consequence of how it functions, warts and all. I
           | don't care how good Grok is or isn't. I'm a fan of frontier
           | model LLMs. They don't meaningfully replace Wikipedia.
        
             | meowface wrote:
             | I fully agree. Even assuming no forced ideological bias
             | from Elon, I doubt it would be nearly as good. I still
             | thought it could be an interesting concept, even if I had
             | very low hopes from the start.
        
             | physarum_salad wrote:
             | "Warts and all" says it all really. What are those warts?
             | Who's responsibility are they?
             | 
             | Wikipedia is really not ideal for the LLM age where
             | multiple perspectives can be rapidly generated. There are
             | many topics where clusters of justified true beliefs and
             | reasonable arguments may ALL be valid surrounding a certain
             | topic. And no I am not talking about "flat earth" pages or
             | other similar nonsense.
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | It's not controlled by a trusted actor so it doesn't matter
           | how it happens to act at the moment.
           | 
           | They could pull the rug at any future time and its almost
           | better to gain trust now and cash in that trust later.
        
             | kvirani wrote:
             | And the idea of it being controlled by any one entity makes
             | it less interesting and less "good" when compared to
             | Wikipedia
        
             | meowface wrote:
             | My expectations were extremely low, as were, and are, my
             | expectations of Grok in general. Was just making an actual
             | devil's advocate case.
        
               | lapcat wrote:
               | > Was just making an actual devil's advocate case.
               | 
               | Why? We're not nominating a saint or electing a Pope.
               | 
               | If someone has a certain opinion, they're free to argue
               | it here. There's no need to invent imaginary opinions and
               | pretend to advocate for them when there are so many
               | actual HN users.
        
               | meowface wrote:
               | We're discussing the central sources of knowledge on the
               | internet and by extension pretty much the epistemological
               | backbones of present human civilization. It's worth being
               | open to other perspectives.
               | 
               | I, a left-leaning person who detests Elon Musk and what
               | he's done to Twitter and who generally trusts and likes
               | Wikipedia, feel no shame or regret in assessing
               | Grokipedia, even if I figured it was just going to be the
               | standard tribalistic garbage (which it indeed turned out
               | to be).
        
               | lapcat wrote:
               | > It's worth being open to other perspectives.
               | 
               | There's a big difference between _listening_ to other
               | perspectives and _inventing_ other perspectives.
               | 
               | Why not let the believers of other perspectives argue for
               | those perspectives? Wouldn't they be the best advocates?
               | And if _nobody_ believes the perspective you 've
               | invented, then perhaps it wasn't worth discussing after
               | all.
               | 
               | Again, we're not really lacking in volume of commenters
               | here.
        
               | meowface wrote:
               | Maybe "devil's advocate" was the wrong term for me to
               | use. In this thread I am sharing only my honest beliefs
               | and perspectives and was referring to the genuine initial
               | willingness I had to show charitability to the concept of
               | Grokipedia before its release.
        
           | LastTrain wrote:
           | " Grok has historically actually been one of the biggest
           | debunkers of right-wing misinformation and conspiracy
           | theories on Twitter"
           | 
           | Well, no, it hasn't. It has debunked some things. It has made
           | some incorrect shit up. But it isn't historically one of the
           | "biggest debunkers" of anything. Do we only speak hyperbole
           | now?
        
             | meowface wrote:
             | I am not using hyperbole or speculating. I absolutely mean
             | it.
             | 
             | "Biggest" is tough to quantify, but "most significant" and
             | "most effective" is what I meant. I use Twitter way too
             | many hours a day basically every day and have a morbid
             | fixation on diving deep into right and far-right rabbit
             | holes there. (Like, on thousands of occasions.)
             | 
             | Grok is without a doubt the single most important
             | contributor to convincing believers of right-wing
             | conspiracy theories that maybe the theories aren't as sound
             | as they thought. I have seen this play out hundreds of
             | times. Grok often serves as a kind of referee or tiebreaker
             | in threads between right-wing conspiracy theorists and
             | debunkers, and it typically sides overwhelmingly with the
             | debunkers. (Or at least used to.) And it does it in a way
             | that validates the conspiracy theorist's feelings, so it's
             | less likely to trigger a psychological immune system
             | response.
             | 
             | https://www.reddit.com/r/GROKvsMAGA/ contains some
             | examples. These may seem cherry-picked, but they generally
             | aren't. (Might need to look at some older posts now that
             | Elon has put increasingly pressure on the Grok and
             | Grokipedia developers to keep it """anti-woke""".)
             | 
             | When a right-wing conspiracy theorist sees some liberal or
             | leftist call them out for their falsehoods, they respond
             | with insults or otherwise dismiss or ignore it. When daddy
             | Elon's Grok tells them - politely - that what they believe
             | is complete horseshit, they react differently. They often
             | respond to it 3 - 20 times, poking and prodding. Of course,
             | most still come away from it convinced Grok is just
             | compromised by the wokes/Jews/whatever. But some seem to
             | actually eventually accept that, at the least, maybe they
             | got some details wrong. It's a very fascinating sight. I
             | almost never see that reaction when they argue with human
             | interlocutors.
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | Same reason you posted that comment: it's sometimes interesting
         | to discuss a thing even if you dislike the thing.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | I'm fine with the logic of discussing it here but can't
           | fathom why Tim Bray thought this would be a useful post given
           | his own objectives.
        
         | bebb wrote:
         | Because it's a genuinely good idea, and hopefully one for which
         | the execution will be improved upon over time.
         | 
         | In theory, using LLMs to summarize knowledge could produce a
         | less biased and more comprehensive output than human-written
         | encyclopedias.
         | 
         | Whether Grokipedia will meet that challenge remains to be seen.
         | But even if it doesn't, there's opportunity for other
         | prospective encyclopedia generators to do so.
        
       | falleng0d wrote:
       | We may joke about it, but the fact is that it's releasing dumb
       | ideas like this that you sometimes get masterpieces. Maybe this
       | one is really just one of the bad ones, but eventually Elon will
       | have some good ones just like he already has.
       | 
       | And a lot of us would be better off releasing our dumb ideas too.
       | The world has a lot of issues and if all you do is talk down and
       | don't try to fix anything yourself. Maybe it's time to get off
       | the web a little and do something else.
        
         | tokai wrote:
         | Not even being snarky, but I can't recall a single good idea he
         | had.
        
           | podgietaru wrote:
           | He stole a lot of good ideas, does that count?
        
           | pstuart wrote:
           | Perhaps I'm working of a false narrative, but SpaceX and the
           | methodology it uses (simplify everything and fail fast) seems
           | to be coming directly from Elon.
           | 
           | He's a horrible human being but has had a couple worthy
           | ideas.
        
             | exe34 wrote:
             | I initially believed his early videos about how he applies
             | the scientific process, with a spreadsheet of the BOM,
             | optimising for specific questions and failing early and all
             | that.
             | 
             | Given his later attitude when it came to careful thought,
             | I'm no longer under the impression that these earlier
             | expositions were his ideas at all. I suspect he got it from
             | the engineers and used it to burnish his image. I know that
             | certain companies, e.g Apple, Dyson, etc have a culture of
             | "all ideas came from the big man at the top, no matter who
             | thought of it."
        
           | exe34 wrote:
           | he bought them.
        
         | happytoexplain wrote:
         | I know the world sucks, but "fuck it, let's make it worse" is a
         | tough sell for anybody not already onboard. You're better off
         | just doing it, rather than trying to convince others to also do
         | it.
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | _> "Maybe it 's time to get off the web a little and do
         | something else."_
         | 
         | One wishes Musk would take this advice: leave the web alone,
         | forget for a few months about the social media popularity
         | contest that seems to occupy his mind 24/7, and focus on
         | rekindling his passion for rockets or roadsters or whatever
         | middle-aged pursuit comes next.
        
         | tene80i wrote:
         | Which of Elon's dumb ideas are masterpieces?
        
         | podgietaru wrote:
         | In this day and age, how any can look at the man who did 2 open
         | nazi salutes and think he's still Tony Stark is... delusional
         | at best.
        
           | mlmonkey wrote:
           | Believe it or not, me (not white, did not grow up in the
           | West, had the faintest clue about Nazism) used to do what you
           | would consider a "Nazi salute" when I'd see friends and wave
           | to them from a distance. I don't know how I picked that up
           | but it happened.
           | 
           | I'm not saying that Musk is doing the same; but that one can
           | be charitable and say he probably did not mean that. I mean,
           | what does he stand to gain from doing so? He's a businessman.
        
             | Take8435 wrote:
             | > had the faintest clue about Nazism
             | 
             | Whew lad. This tells me all we need to know. "I don't know
             | nothing but folks gotta listen to my opinion!"
        
             | iterateoften wrote:
             | At the time he was acting as the one of the largest
             | political activists and donors for the Republican party,
             | not as a businessman.
        
             | throw-qqqqq wrote:
             | > I mean, what does he stand to gain from doing so? He's a
             | businessman.
             | 
             | I can only guess at his motives, but the salute is not an
             | isolated case.
             | 
             | Musk has tweeted "Only AfD can save Germany". The founder
             | of AfD, Bjorn Hocke, is a convicted nazi. The German
             | domestic intelligence agency, BfV, says AfD is an extreme-
             | right organization with anti-democratic ideals ("proven
             | far-right extremist entity")
             | 
             | Musk also tweeted "Free Tommy Robinson", a UK far-right
             | extremist activist and convicted criminal.
             | 
             | Musk has a history of supporting people and organizations
             | that most other businessmen would not.
        
           | judah wrote:
           | The ADL, the left-wing Jewish human rights group not aligned
           | with Musk in the slightest, called out that Musk's gesture
           | was merely an awkward salutation, not a Nazi seig heil[0].
           | 
           | [0]: https://www.jta.org/2025/01/21/politics/how-did-the-adl-
           | conc...
        
             | exe34 wrote:
             | The left wing Jewish human rights group isn't the arbiter
             | of what a nazi salute is. Actual Nazis around the world
             | took it as a nod towards their ideology, and he's
             | desperately trying to start a civil war in the UK, so I
             | would say it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck.
        
       | cupofjoakim wrote:
       | Dead Internet Theory is no longer a theory huh?
        
       | mlmonkey wrote:
       | > Wikipedia is, to quote myself, the encyclopedia that "anyone
       | who's willing to provide citations can edit".
       | 
       | ... except if you try to go against the group think. My edits
       | have been reverted and I have been banned simply because I
       | decided to speak up about the good things that the Modi
       | government in India was doing, of which there are many. I don't
       | believe in always harping on the negative, and am generally an
       | optimistic person. But I went against the dominant narrative on
       | Wikipedia and was rejected with vehemence.
        
         | bawolff wrote:
         | People who say these types of things should link their
         | wikipedia user account so we could see why they were banned and
         | if it really was so unreasonable.
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | Seeing as their approach to it is "good vs bad" and not "fact
           | vs fiction" I think we can draw some conclusions.
        
           | wtfwhateven wrote:
           | They never do even when asked. Happy to be proven wrong this
           | time of course.
        
         | exe34 wrote:
         | Could you share some of the references you tried to use here?
         | It might be interesting to see the quality that they refused to
         | accept towards overturning their narrative.
        
           | ares623 wrote:
           | OP has a chance to be vindicated. Surely they will take it?
        
             | mlmonkey wrote:
             | Since you insisted. This is from a couple of years ago, and
             | I have moved on to never donating to Wikipedia again, so
             | take it FWIW.
             | 
             | I pointed out that India had reduced extreme poverty from
             | ~16% in 2013 to ~2% in 2022. This is directly from a World
             | Bank report: https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/09
             | 97221042225345... One would think this would be reliable?
             | One would be wrong since this is deemed to be "pro Modi".
             | Another was the success of India's mission to bring piped
             | water to every household in India (a luxury we take for
             | granted in the West). There's a live dashboard maintained
             | by the Water Ministry of India:
             | https://ejalshakti.gov.in/jjmreport/JJMIndia.aspx
             | Apparently it's a biased source. :shrug:
             | 
             | Other examples include the fact that Indian government paid
             | for millions of households to construct toilets over the
             | last 10 years. Or that millions of houses were constructed
             | in villages, fully paid for by the government, during the
             | same period. Or that the government also paid for rural
             | folks to switch to gas-burning stoves instead of wood-,
             | coal- or cowdung- burdning stoves. I'm too lazy to look up
             | the references now, but you can find them with easy
             | searching.
             | 
             | Surely you can't deny that Wikipedia is biased against the
             | so-called "right" side of the political spectrum, and
             | biased towards the "left"?
        
         | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
         | Wikipedia clearly states that its purpose is to catalog
         | knowledge/information that has been collected and published
         | elsewhere. If you do not provide adequate citations to what are
         | considered reputable sources, Wikipedia will reject your work.
         | 
         | It happened to me a number of times before I came to understand
         | the Wikipedia model. They are not interested in _your_
         | analysis, they are interested in statements that reference
         | other inspectable  "reputable" analyses.
        
         | UebVar wrote:
         | So you where banned for, by your own accord, motivated
         | reasoning?
         | 
         | This is the best endorsement for wikipedia possible.
        
       | billy99k wrote:
       | I wish this much attention was given to Wikipedia and now,
       | Bluesky.
       | 
       | Bias in either direction is bad for society.
        
         | epistasis wrote:
         | What's insane is that you think that this attention was not
         | given to Wikipedia and Bluesky...
        
       | generationP wrote:
       | Wondering if the project will get better from the pushback or
       | will just be folded like one of Elon's many ADHD experiments. In
       | a sense, encyclopedias _should_ be easy for LLMs: they are meant
       | to survey and summarize well-documented material rather than
       | contain novel insights; they are often imprecise and muddled
       | already (look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_tree and
       | see how many conventions coexist without an explanation of their
       | differences; it used to be worse a few years ago); the writing
       | style is pretty much that of GPT-5. But the problem type of
       | "summarize a biased source and try to remove the bias" isn't
       | among the ones I've seen LLMs being tested for, and this is what
       | Elon's project lives and dies by.
       | 
       | If I were doing a project like this, I would hire a few dozen
       | topical experts to go over the WP articles relevant to their
       | fields and comment on their biases rather than waste their time
       | rewriting the articles from scratch. The results can then be
       | published as a study, and can probably be used to shame the WP
       | into cleaning their shit up, without needlessly duplicating the
       | 90% of the work that it has been doing well.
        
         | __s wrote:
         | > can probably be used to shame the WP into cleaning their shit
         | up
         | 
         | what if your goal is for wikipedia to be biased in your favor?
        
       | arghandugh wrote:
       | It is a disinformation project aimed at morons and morally
       | bankrupt monsters, powered and funded by one of history's
       | bloodiest mass murderers. Not sure why this takes four pages to
       | investigate.
        
       | physarum_salad wrote:
       | "Wikipedia, in my mind, has two main purposes: A quick visit to
       | find out the basics about some city or person or plant or
       | whatever, or a deep-dive to find out what we really know about
       | genetic linkages to autism or Bach's relationship with Frederick
       | the Great or whatever."
       | 
       | Completely agree with the first purpose but would never use
       | wikipedia for the second purpose. Its only good at basics and
       | cannot handle complex information well.
        
         | ajross wrote:
         | I think that's actually wrong, or hangs on a semantic argument
         | about "complexity". Wikipedia is an overview source. It's not
         | going to give you "all" the information, but it's absolutely
         | going to tell you what information there is. And in particular
         | where there's significant argument or controversy, or multiple
         | hypotheses, Wikipedia is going to be arguably the best
         | source[1] for reflecting the state of discourse.
         | 
         | Like, if there's a subject about which you aren't personally an
         | expert, and you have the choice between reading a single review
         | paper you found on Google or the Wikipedia page, which are you
         | going to choose?
         | 
         | [1] In fact, talk pages are often ground zero!
        
           | physarum_salad wrote:
           | The best source is the one that provides the widest breadth
           | of information on a topic.
           | 
           | This is a good use of wikipedia: "Like, if there's a subject
           | about which you aren't personally an expert, and you have the
           | choice between reading a single review paper you found on
           | Google or the Wikipedia page, which are you going to choose?"
           | 
           | But that is like skim reading or basic introductions rather
           | than in-depth understanding.
        
             | ajross wrote:
             | > that is like skim reading or basic introductions
             | 
             | No? How do you learn stuff you don't know? Are you really
             | telling me you enroll in a graduate course or buy a
             | textbook for everyone one?
             | 
             | Like, can you give an example of a "deep dive" research
             | project of yours that does _not_ begin with an
             | encyclopedia-style treatment? And then, maybe, check the
             | Wikipedia page to see if it 's actually worse than whatever
             | you picked?
             | 
             | Again, true domain experts are going to read domain
             | journals and consult their peers in the domain for access
             | to deep information.[1] But until you get there, you need
             | somewhere you can go that you know is a good starting
             | point. And arguments that that place is somehow not
             | https://wikipedia.org/ seem... well, strained beyond
             | credibility.
             | 
             | [1] Though even then domains are really broad these days
             | and people tend to use Wikipedia even for their day jobs.
             | Lord knows I do.
        
       | jameslk wrote:
       | Wikipedia is a great educational resource and one I've donated to
       | for over a decade. That said, I like the idea of Grokipedia in
       | the sense that it's another potential source I can look at for
       | more information and get multiple perspectives. If there's
       | anything factual in Grokipedia that Wikipedia is missing,
       | Wikipedia can be updated to include it
       | 
       | I hope we can keep growing freely available sources of
       | information. Even if some of that information is incorrect or
       | flat out manipulative. This isn't anything new. It's what the web
       | has always been
        
       | siliconc0w wrote:
       | Not sure it still does this but for awhile if you asked Grok a
       | question about a sensitive topic and expanded the thinking, it
       | said it was searching Elon's twitter history for its ground truth
       | perspective.
       | 
       | So instead of a Truth-maximizing AI, it's an Elon-maximizing AI.
        
         | sunaookami wrote:
         | This was unintended as observed by Simon here:
         | https://simonwillison.net/2025/Jul/11/grok-musk/ and confirmed
         | by xAI themselves here:
         | https://x.com/xai/status/1945039609840185489
         | 
         | >Another was that if you ask it "What do you think?" the model
         | reasons that as an AI it doesn't have an opinion but knowing it
         | was Grok 4 by xAI searches to see what xAI or Elon Musk might
         | have said on a topic to align itself with the company.
         | 
         | The diff for the mitigation is here: https://github.com/xai-
         | org/grok-prompts/commit/e517db8b4b253...
        
       | alyxya wrote:
       | At a glance, Grokipedia seems quite promising to me, considering
       | how new it is. There are plenty of external citations, so rather
       | than relying on a model to recall information internally, it's
       | likely effectively just summarizing external references. The fact
       | that it's automatically generated at scale means it can be
       | iterated on to improve fact checking reliability, exclude certain
       | known sources as unreliable, and ensure it has up-to-date and
       | valid citation links. We'll have to wait and see how it changes
       | over time, but I expect an AI driven online encyclopedia to
       | eventually replace the need for a fully human wikipedia.
        
         | MallocVoidstar wrote:
         | > There are plenty of external citations, so rather than
         | relying on a model to recall information internally, it's
         | likely effectively just summarizing external references.
         | 
         | And according to Tim Bray, it's doing that badly.
         | 
         | > All the references are just URLs and at least some of them
         | entirely fail to support the text.
        
           | alyxya wrote:
           | It's the first release, so I expect it to get better over
           | time. I didn't care for ChatGPT when it was first released
           | and thought it wouldn't be trustworthy, but it's much better
           | now.
        
       | ef2k wrote:
       | Maybe it's just me, but reading through LLM generated prose
       | becomes a drag very quickly. The em dashes sprinkled everywhere,
       | the "it's not this, it's that" style of writing. I even tried
       | listening to it and it's still exhausting. Maybe it's the
       | ubiquity of it nowadays that is making me jaded, but I tend to
       | appreciate terrible writing, like I'm doing in this comment, more
       | nowadays.
        
         | ajross wrote:
         | I completely agree. There's an "obsequious verbosity" to these
         | things, like they're trying to convince you they they're not
         | bullshitting. But that seems like a tuning issue (you can
         | obviously get an LLM to emit prose in any style you want), and
         | my guess is that this result has been extensively A/B tested to
         | be more comforting or something.
         | 
         | One of the skills of working with the form, which I'm still
         | developing, is the ability to frame follow-on questions in a
         | specific enough way to prevent the BS engine from engaging.
         | Sometimes I find myself asking it questions using jargon I 100%
         | know is wrong just because the answer will tell me what the
         | phrasing it wants to hear is.
        
       | hocuspocus wrote:
       | I checked a topic I care about, and that I have personally
       | researched because the publicly available information is pretty
       | bad.
       | 
       | The article is even worse than the one on Wikipedia. It follows
       | the same structure but fails to tell a coherent story. It
       | references random people on Reddit (!) that don't even support
       | the point it's trying to make. Not that the information on Reddit
       | is particularly good to begin with, even it it were properly
       | interpreted. It cites Forbes articles parroting pretty insane and
       | unsubstantiated claims, I thought mainstream media was not to be
       | trusted?
       | 
       | In the end it's longer, written in a weird style, and doesn't
       | really bring any value. Asking Grok about about the same topic
       | and instructing it to be succinct yields much better results.
        
         | jaredklewis wrote:
         | What's the article?
        
         | jameslk wrote:
         | It was just launched? I remember when Wikipedia was pretty
         | useless early on. The concept of using an LLM to take a ton of
         | information and distill it down into encyclopedia form seems
         | promising with iteration and refinement. If they add in an
         | editor step to clean things up, that would likely help a lot
         | (not sure if maybe they already do this)
        
       | josefritzishere wrote:
       | I looked at Grokopedia today and spot-checked for references to
       | my own publications which exist in Wikipedia. As is often
       | reported, it very directly plagerizes Wikipedia. But it did
       | remove dead links. This is pretty underwhelming even on the Musk
       | hype scale.
        
       | mellosouls wrote:
       | Grokipedia is motivated significantly by the idea that Wikipedia
       | is seriously flawed in its handling of topics (eg socio-cultural
       | and historical) that have very different analyses from left and
       | right, with a major bias to the left.
       | 
       | The author here sees no such issue, which is the majority
       | viewpoint on HN I would say, given the instant down-votes for
       | those who challenge the idea of an eventual impartiality built-
       | in.
       | 
       | Regardless of which side you fall on, I think this means that the
       | analysis here (while I agree with most of it) needs to be treated
       | with caution on that foundational issue of how Grokipedia
       | approaches such topics in comparison with Wikipedia.
        
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