[HN Gopher] A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer ve...
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       A theoretical way to circumvent Android developer verification
        
       Author : sleirsgoevy
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2025-10-31 20:20 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (enaix.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (enaix.github.io)
        
       | gruez wrote:
       | Sounds like the UEFI shim loader that's signed by Microsoft but
       | can load an arbitrary EFI executable (with some signing checks).
       | The difference is that the UEFI shim loader is endorsed/condoned
       | by Microsoft. What about Google? This seems easily patchable,
       | ostensibly for "security purposes" (eg. disabling loading dynamic
       | code).
        
         | p_l wrote:
         | Microsoft also forces manufacturers to provide an option to
         | reset Platform Key aka SecureBoot "root of trust" key - which
         | is supposed to be not possible in spec-compliant UEFI system.
         | 
         | They don't do it out of goodness of their hearts, which is why
         | it's more solid than relying on goodwill - Microsoft simply has
         | an offering that _depends_ on that for certain high profile
         | clients.
        
           | XorNot wrote:
           | I suspect it's also a defense against antitrust law suits -
           | lock in was how they got sued for things circa Internet
           | Explorer.
           | 
           | Frankly they should still be getting sued for the way Edge
           | and Cortana are bundled.
        
       | asimops wrote:
       | While it is technically feasible, it is not a good idea to try
       | and find a technical solution to a people/organisation problem.
       | 
       | Do not accept the premise of assholes.
       | 
       | I hope we can get the EU to fund a truly open Android Fork. Maybe
       | under some organisation similar to NL Labs.
       | 
       | --- edit ---
       | 
       | Furthermore, the need for a trustworthy binary to be auditable to
       | a certain hash or something would make banning this a simple task
       | if Google would want to go that route.
        
         | thaumasiotes wrote:
         | > I hope we can get the EU to fund a truly open Android Fork.
         | 
         | How are things in the EU on whether it's legal to buy a SIM
         | card without showing ID?
        
           | jraph wrote:
           | I'm confused, how are those two things related?
        
             | peterhadlaw wrote:
             | Nanny state
        
               | vik0 wrote:
               | More like surveillance state
        
             | semolino wrote:
             | The commenter you replied to was implying that the EU does
             | not respect the privacy/freedom of mobile device users.
        
           | remix2000 wrote:
           | It is neither illegal nor hard to obtain such a prepaid SIM
           | card.
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | That very much depends on the country, many require ID.
        
               | Kwpolska wrote:
               | The ID presented at time of purchase does not have to be
               | the ID of the actual user of the card. Your local
               | drunkard will be happy to get $10 to buy a SIM card for
               | you. Or you could visit eBay (or local equivalent) and
               | get a valid SIM card without leaving your house.
        
       | t_mann wrote:
       | > verified loader apk, which in turn dynamically loads any apk
       | the user wants
       | 
       | Wasn't this kind of solution considered and sort of dismissed
       | (because of too much centralization iirc) by F-Droid (can't find
       | the reference now)? It seems like something that's worth trying,
       | but in the end it's just a band-aid. If it gets any traction
       | Google will shut it down. The real disease is dependence on a
       | duopoly of (quasi)-proprietary OS for the dominant computing
       | platform of our time.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | I see a handful of problems.
         | 
         | 1. The loader will just get banned.
         | 
         | 2. The application ID and permissions are that of the loader.
         | To have different applications with separate data and
         | permissions you would need multiple copies of the loader.
         | 
         | 3. You miss out on other android security features such as
         | application signing validation for updates.
        
       | antiloper wrote:
       | This will not work because the goal of android developer
       | verification is to prevent running Google-sanctioned code. If you
       | actually tried to publish this, Google will revoke the signature
       | on the loader APK.
        
         | NewJazz wrote:
         | Ah yes sanctioned. A word that has two opposite meanings.
        
       | zb3 wrote:
       | Well, I'd rather verify myself with the government identity than
       | accept a stock OS that literally woke me up with a fake message
       | promoting Gemini despite me spending almost 2 hours turning every
       | possible privacy-invasive setting off.
       | 
       | To me, the attention to these verification changes seems
       | misplaced. We need to defend the ability to unlock the
       | bootloader, pressure Google to revive AOSP and then encourage
       | people to switch to a more user-friendly OS.
       | 
       | You're already unable to install what you want on a stock OS due
       | to Android permission model treating you as a third-class
       | citizen, after Google and OEMs.
        
         | asimops wrote:
         | In my opinion, the only solution while keeping Google and Apple
         | as the developing entities is regulation.
         | 
         | Despite that, there are some things that should not be for
         | profit in my opinion. A good OS platform is one such thing.
        
       | p1mrx wrote:
       | I suggested this a couple months ago:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45084296
       | 
       | Android may ultimately win the arms race, but if they want to be
       | evil, we should make their task as tedious as possible.
        
         | neuroelectron wrote:
         | Google doesn't need to make an argument to ban apps or
         | developers.
        
       | andrewcchen wrote:
       | So like LiveContainer[1] which works around ios's signing
       | requirements
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/LiveContainer/LiveContainer
        
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       (page generated 2025-10-31 23:00 UTC)