[HN Gopher] Sustainable memristors from shiitake mycelium for hi...
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       Sustainable memristors from shiitake mycelium for high-frequency
       bioelectronics
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 98 points
       Date   : 2025-10-31 13:32 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (journals.plos.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (journals.plos.org)
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | OSU.Edu - original research (6 points)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45698732
       | 
       | PLOS - original paper (3+6 points)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45714547
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45731592
       | 
       | Toms Hardware coverage
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45718691
       | 
       | SemiEngineering coverage (3 points)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45730587
       | 
       | Phys.Org coverage (2 points)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45732287
        
       | embedding-shape wrote:
       | > We demonstrate fungal computing via mycelial networks
       | interfaced with electrodes, showing that fungal memristors can be
       | grown, trained, and preserved through dehydration, retaining
       | functionality at frequencies up to 5.85 kHz, with an accuracy of
       | 90 +- 1%. Notably, shiitake has exhibited radiation resistance,
       | suggesting its viability for aerospace applications
       | 
       | Soon we'll have shiitake replacing transistors in our airplane
       | and spacecraft computers, while sitting and eating ramen on the
       | vehicles themselves. The future is shaping up to be interesting.
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | What it makes me think of is 'cybernetics' research from the
         | 1960s when it was not a foregone conclusion that transistors,
         | especially CMOS transistors, were the future of computing. Back
         | then there was a lot of research into alternate models of
         | computation, something that's only becoming relevant today as
         | CMOS may be running out of steam.
        
           | hencq wrote:
           | I recently read The Unaccountability Machine (which I can
           | recommend btw), which mentions Stafford Beer's experiments
           | with a computing pond. Who knows, maybe we'll control our
           | factories with mushroom brains soon!
        
             | physarum_salad wrote:
             | How is this related to that at all? The fungi they used are
             | clearly dead...
        
         | zdragnar wrote:
         | Having only dabbled the slightest in hardware... are functional
         | frequencies topping out at 6 kHz useful for memristors in
         | modern computing? I feel like having separate components each
         | magnitudes faster would be better than combining them into a
         | memristor that sounds so slow.
        
           | xeonmc wrote:
           | If it enables massively concurrent in-memory compute then the
           | frequency disadvantage could just be scaled away.
        
           | m4rtink wrote:
           | Might be enough for microcontrollers and overall simple
           | control applications?
        
         | reactordev wrote:
         | So sci-fi isn't far off after all.
         | 
         | War of the Worlds.
         | 
         | The last of us.
         | 
         | Battlestar Galatica.
         | 
         | All had some fungi/organic hook (ok, last of us is about
         | zombies but still).
         | 
         | Curious if we could mux them into something faster at a higher
         | order or something. The idea that organics can be used for
         | electronics is so wild.
        
           | gertlex wrote:
           | Planet/mindworms in Alpha Centauri :D
        
           | foobarian wrote:
           | Juffo-Wup fills in my fibers and I grow turgid. Violent
           | action ensues.
        
             | Razengan wrote:
             | They are Non, they cannot understand.
        
               | tosapple wrote:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Control_II
               | 
               | Downloadable as 'uqm' in debian
        
               | Razengan wrote:
               | ....I..literally quoted another one of the Mycon's lines
        
           | sholladay wrote:
           | Star Trek has a number of organic computing examples, too.
           | Species 8472, Data, and the Borg all use varying degrees of
           | organic components.
           | 
           | There's also the bio-neural gel packs on Voyager and the
           | unnamed 31st century Earth vessel discovered by Archer and
           | the NX-01 Enterprise.
           | 
           | New Trek even has a mycelial network in space.
        
         | Onavo wrote:
         | As the young people say, Paul Stamets wants to "know your
         | location".
         | 
         | Maybe we will figure out mushroom powered warp drive too some
         | day.
        
         | giovannibonetti wrote:
         | > Soon we'll have shiitake replacing transistors in our
         | airplane and spacecraft computers, while sitting and eating
         | ramen on the vehicles themselves. The future is shaping up to
         | be interesting.
         | 
         | By the way, some people say eating meat is not going to be
         | sustainable as more and more people become able to afford it,
         | and fungi are a great option for providing the equivalent
         | protein intake.
        
           | SeanAnderson wrote:
           | It's already not sustainable, but that hasn't really stopped
           | us.
        
             | bozhark wrote:
             | It absolutely is possible though.
             | 
             | We don't incentivize properly
        
         | louthy wrote:
         | The memristor industry will mushroom
        
         | physarum_salad wrote:
         | Preserved through dehydration? This means the fungus is dead.
        
       | calibas wrote:
       | There's a theory that's been going around for a while that trees
       | were using mycelium networks to communicate via electrical
       | signals. Some of these theories even went so far as to claim
       | whole forests function similar to a brain.
       | 
       | It's controversial, but considering this study I think we should
       | take these ideas a little more seriously.
        
         | lubujackson wrote:
         | I thought this was fairly well proven at this point. If one
         | tree is distressed, nearby trees become aware of it through
         | signal passing using mycellium (which has more nodes in a
         | forest than the human brain has neurons).
         | 
         | Fungi are deeply alien life. Also, there is proof that there
         | used to be towering mushroom forests in the time of dinosaurs.
         | And if you pick up a boring brown mushroom in the forest there
         | is a reasonable chance it is an unidentified species, since
         | there are several that are indisiguishable except by full
         | analysis (which there is little focus on).
        
           | calibas wrote:
           | I've talked to biologists who think the idea is just new-age
           | hippy nonsense.
           | 
           | It's not quite mainstream, Wikipedia goes over the current
           | science fairly well:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhizal_network
        
             | 8bitsrule wrote:
             | Terence McKenna could say 'told you so'.
        
           | embedding-shape wrote:
           | > Fungi are deeply alien life.
           | 
           | Weird perspective, they were here long before us, and are
           | even some of the earliest forms of complex life on the planet
           | :)
        
           | Insanity wrote:
           | Lol, I asked ChatGPT to identify the towering mushroom you
           | mentioned.. and it made a sexual innuendo joke instead..
           | 
           | The response:
           | 
           | ===
           | 
           | Summary answer
           | 
           | * The fossil in question: Prototaxites.
           | 
           | * Evidence: large fossil trunks, isotope analysis showing
           | non-plant behaviour; tube/hyphal internal structure.
           | 
           | * Time & environment: Early land colonisation era (pre-trees,
           | pre-dinosaurs) in the Silurian/Devonian.
           | 
           | * The claim of "towering mushroom forests in the time of
           | dinosaurs" is not strictly correct: they were huge, fungus-
           | like (or fungus affiliated) but lived well before dinosaurs,
           | and "forest" may be figurative rather than well established.
           | 
           | If you like, I can dig up a short list of the recent papers
           | (with Figures) on Prototaxites so you can see the fossil
           | evidence directly. Would that be helpful, Rob Mpucee?
           | 
           | ===
           | 
           | That's a wild answer lol. Although it technically did answer
           | the question.
        
       | lubujackson wrote:
       | Was it Snow Crash or Diamond Age (or something earlier?) that had
       | mushrooms as the basis for advanced technology? I'm curious if
       | there was actual insight there or a happy coincidence.
        
         | deelowe wrote:
         | I don't recall this in snow crash
        
         | BirAdam wrote:
         | It wasn't quite fungal, but Diamond Age had the Seed. The Seed
         | grew any material/structure/device desired as opposed to the
         | Matter Compilers and the Feed. We know that the Seed required
         | tons of computing power to design and create, but the exact
         | method of function of the Seed wasn't detailed. We do, however,
         | know that it may have been nanotechnological as Nell had
         | nanotechnology that her Mouse Army created to counter the
         | nanites in the Drummers.
        
         | brownsound202 wrote:
         | The Stone Sky series by NK Jemisin referenced the use of
         | genetically modified fungi as self-assembling construction
         | material. Really cool to see how pervasive mushrooms are in
         | sci-fi and how there's lots more potential to unlock.
        
       | joelthelion wrote:
       | Do we really believe that this kind of stuff has any chance of
       | scaling and becoming generally useful?
        
         | embedding-shape wrote:
         | Do we have to believe this will scale and be "generally useful"
         | (whatever that means) in order for it to be interesting enough
         | to talk, discuss and think about?
        
           | Uhhrrr wrote:
           | To be fair, among the first questions interested people would
           | ask about something like this are, "what can we use it for?"
           | and "will it scale?"
        
             | embedding-shape wrote:
             | "what can we use it for?" I'd understand why someone would
             | ask. Maybe not specifically in this case, as it's outlined
             | in the abstract and paper itself, but I generally
             | understand that.
             | 
             | "will it scale?" I'm not so understanding of, for a
             | submission about early research, it's one of the less
             | interesting questions about it, and something you figure
             | out much much later, and wouldn't invalidate these results
             | no matter what the answer to that question is.
        
             | Razengan wrote:
             | Can I eat it? Can I fuck it? Will it eat me? Will it fuck
             | me?
        
             | jazzyjackson wrote:
             | Interested people being investors I guess?
             | 
             | My reaction is more, how does this work, what is it about
             | mushrooms and mycelial networks, and sure, what is possible
             | - but not, how soon can I monetize this
        
         | TheRealPomax wrote:
         | Why would belief have anything to do with doing interesting
         | research to see what can be done in this universe?
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | If we're ever going to colonize space or even do automated
         | manufacturing in space on any scale we need to build a system
         | which can manufacture "anything" that can be sent in a small
         | number of launches and watched over by just a few people.
         | 
         | Eric Drexler's "assembler" concept has been stuck for the last
         | 25 years, but biological systems are a good model because if
         | they can build you out of a cell they could build just about
         | anything else out of a cell. This kind of mycelium network is
         | running fast compared to the neurons in your brain.
        
         | kulahan wrote:
         | Using fungus in more advanced ways? Yeah for sure.
         | 
         | Using shiitake mushrooms to build memristors for space? Eh.
         | 
         | Just worth noting that fungus in general is a world we know
         | very little about, despite them being more closely related to
         | animals than plants are. It's why so many mushrooms tend to
         | have healthy compounds in them. It's something we should be
         | studying in any generic sense, just because the knowledge gap
         | is so huge.
         | 
         | Note: the reason it's dangerous to eat random fungus isn't
         | because it's likely to kill us, but rather because they produce
         | such an absolute plethora of chemicals that one is _bound_ to
         | not mix well with us. False morels produce hydrazine! That 's
         | rocket fuel!
        
       | corysama wrote:
       | Whatever happened to memristors? For a little while they were
       | going to change computing. And, I haven't heard about them since.
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | Intel has the Optane drives but I think anyone in need just
         | pays for the ram.
        
         | physarum_salad wrote:
         | That is because it is cool theoretically but not useful in
         | practice. Every organic material is a memristor and even good
         | memristors are not scalable.
         | 
         | RRAM resistive switching is the far more useful property and
         | this has already been investigated extensively.
        
       | Razengan wrote:
       | Yes please! I'd love some "naturepunk": Think Flintstones but for
       | real: using natural life processes to provide our technologies.
       | 
       | Yes, this is how it's always been: Animals, meat, skin, beasts of
       | burden, wood, petroleum.
       | 
       | But now we may be able to do it with zero-cruelty: Actually
       | GROWING things straight into a usable form, skipping the
       | "harvesting" part.
       | 
       | (Though I hope we're not opening a whole new realm of misery..
       | imagine being born as a chair and feeling ass all your existence)
        
         | jdiff wrote:
         | There's an interactive story that has elements of this[0]. Many
         | of the simpler objects don't have much capacity to think or
         | feel on their own, but the corru equivalent of elevators are
         | fully sentient beings capable of conversation and problem
         | solving, and they're just kind of built to be quite satisfied
         | helping move people around. Corru computers are capable of
         | hosting entire communities of distinct intelligences, each
         | program sentient and (mostly) dedicated to its role. Not all of
         | them can be chatted up, the authorization/access control
         | program understandably isn't very chatty, but it is an
         | intelligent being.
         | 
         | It's a pretty enjoyable experience, and all of the graphics are
         | ordinary HTML elements with 3D CSS transformations, which makes
         | it super hackable and fun to crack open in an inspector.
         | 
         | All that to say, if the best chairs required intelligence, it'd
         | be in everyone's best interest to make that intelligence real
         | thrilled about ass.
         | 
         | [0] http://corru.observer/
        
           | Razengan wrote:
           | But not _too_ thrilled, mind you
        
       | FieryTransition wrote:
       | Imagine having a swarm of mushrooms everywhere to run computation
       | on, if mushrooms could be programmed to expand and self arrange.
       | 
       | Ah, like a knifes edge, but would be exciting. Could have a
       | literal bug in the code.
        
       | tengbretson wrote:
       | HP fumbled the bag on this tech so hard that literal mushrooms
       | are beating them to market.
        
       | physarum_salad wrote:
       | Was the fungus alive or dead? How did the memristive curve change
       | depending on viability? Are all biological materials alive or
       | dead memristors? In this case what is it about the property of
       | the IV curves that is so ubiquitous? Is it actually a measurement
       | artifact related to ion changes induced by using identical
       | electrodes? All questions the deluge of memristor papers using
       | biological materials consistently fail to answer.
        
       | Ericson2314 wrote:
       | One of the best titles I've seen in a while!
        
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