[HN Gopher] Hacking India's largest automaker: Tata Motors
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Hacking India's largest automaker: Tata Motors
        
       Author : EatonZ
       Score  : 98 points
       Date   : 2025-10-29 01:31 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (eaton-works.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (eaton-works.com)
        
       | speckx wrote:
       | The fact that they put their AWS secret keys on their website is
       | incredible.
        
         | YetAnotherNick wrote:
         | Sending it with AES encryption(with the key that the client has
         | access to) makes it even worse, as someone knew this shouldn't
         | be shared to client yet they shared it anyway.
        
         | horns4lyfe wrote:
         | If you've ever worked with Indian outsourcing firms it's not
        
         | quickthrowman wrote:
         | That's exactly the kind of work I'd expect from TCS, I'm not
         | sure why you are surprised.
        
         | darth_avocado wrote:
         | Even more importantly, why do the root keys expose EVERYTHING?
         | Do they just have one account for all of their infra?
        
       | ksynwa wrote:
       | So the author got nothing but a thank you out of it? That's a
       | shame.
        
         | tehlike wrote:
         | At least there was a "thank you".
         | 
         | Some go on to sue such researchers.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Yup, they said thank you and took action only because this
           | was a US-based researcher. Had any Indian dared to do this
           | they'd be in for a world of pain. Not through a lawsuit, but
           | criminal charges.
        
         | DaSHacka wrote:
         | Typical 'payout' for ""responsible"" disclosure.
        
       | sharadov wrote:
       | Security for most Indian companies - even conglomerates is a
       | joke.
       | 
       | Look at the websites - most look like they've not been upgraded
       | since the 90s, with endless popups
        
         | Ylpertnodi wrote:
         | > endless popups
         | 
         | Ypu get popups? What are you using to browse? IE5?
         | 
         | I sometimes get 'this site is trying to open another window
         | -allow/ block?': answer is always 'No'.
        
           | fakedang wrote:
           | Not ad popups, site UI popups.
           | 
           | Another example, financial services publicly traded company
           | with a recent 99% profit decline:
           | 
           | https://www.emkayglobal.com/
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | In site modals.
        
         | alephnerd wrote:
         | It's a side effect of pay. Like every other company, you get
         | what you pay for, and for organizations that view web security
         | as a [edit:] _Cost Center_ (eg. Tata Motors) there 's no
         | incentive to pay market rate for a Security Engineer - who in
         | India can now demand $60k-100k TCs.
         | 
         | Heck, firms that provide offensive security capabilities to
         | Indian PDs can pay $40k-50k after poaching a junior pentester
         | or exploit developer from a PD.
        
           | spelk wrote:
           | Sorry to be pedantic but I think you mean 'cost center', not
           | loss leader (something sold at a loss to attract customers
           | into your ecosystem/store). You are entirely right otherwise.
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | Doh! You are correct! Crossed wires during a meeting
        
           | vrinsd wrote:
           | I understand why someone might this this is a pay issue, but
           | it's goes beyond that.
           | 
           | Culturually, doing something "well"(quality oriented, mindful
           | of end-users) vs. "got it done" (transaction, pragmatic way
           | of looking at things) is the heart of why outsourcing to many
           | different geographical areas (India included) often results
           | in something different than expected.
           | 
           | Also condemning every one in one part of the world as
           | thinking one way is certainly not fair or true, but there are
           | definitely unmistakable trends.
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | Becuase it is about pay.
             | 
             | For example, most of the security portfolio that GCP
             | provides is developed and product managed out of the Google
             | Hyderabad office, as is a fairly major Israeli CNAPP
             | product that starts with "A", a large CNAPP from a public
             | Israeli-American security company that is directly
             | positioned against Wiz, and a major security vuln mgmt and
             | redteaming tool used by the DoD, GitHub, and Google. But
             | all these employers pay $60k-130k TC for mid-career
             | security professionals.
             | 
             | Anyone who is remotely competent gets scooped up by
             | transnational firms or startups who can afford to pay
             | Western salaries, and traditional conglomerates in India
             | largely do not care about web exploits unless they are a
             | web platform first and foremost.
             | 
             | Tata Motors - being an automotive company - does not care
             | about web development for the same reason GM doesn't as
             | well: it isn't tangibly connected to revenue generation. As
             | such, they will just contract it out to TCS (a Tata Group
             | company, but both are independent of each other) at the
             | lowest contract rate possible.
        
             | porridgeraisin wrote:
             | That culture at WITCH and WITCh adjacent companies is
             | itself a result of the pay.
        
             | Nextgrid wrote:
             | Pay should reward doing something _well_ vs merely doing
             | something. Of course, this would generally mean you need to
             | pay _more_ than the competitor which will happily pay for
             | merely doing something. So yes it is about pay.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | Also, Indian companies are competing with American and
               | Israeli founded or funded companies and startups for the
               | same talent.
               | 
               | If you are competent, instead of earning $15k TC working
               | for an automotive company, you could demand $40k-70k in
               | TC from an MNC or a well funded startup (assuming you
               | have the skills to back it up) - and those are the
               | numbers my portfolio companies use to target hiring in
               | India, as well as what I used previously before I became
               | a VC.
        
       | thelastgallon wrote:
       | Related: Jaguar Land Rover hack cost UK economy an estimated $2.5
       | billion, report says:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45668008
       | 
       | The 'tech' for both these is by guess who? TCS!
       | 
       | Edit: For those who don't know the relation. Tata[1] is a
       | conglomerate, which owns both Tata Motors (Jaguar, Land Rover)
       | and also TCS (Tata Consultancy Services)
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Group
        
         | cjs_ac wrote:
         | TCS also contracts for Marks & Spencer, and the Co-op, both of
         | which were also taken offline by hacking earlier this year.
        
           | Mistletoe wrote:
           | At what point is it more believable that these are inside
           | jobs done on purpose vs. incompetence? I guess that's just
           | Hanlon's Razor though.
        
             | cjbgkagh wrote:
             | I have heard there is a growing trend of hackers paying
             | kickbacks to insiders, certainly makes hacking easier.
        
               | CommanderData wrote:
               | Having worked with Indian consultancy firms for over 10
               | years. I can safely say security attitudes and practices
               | haven't changed much.
               | 
               | There's always this culture of taking shortcuts at the
               | expense of security and quality.
        
               | cjbgkagh wrote:
               | One of the problems with incompetence, of which there are
               | many, is that it gives bad actors space to operate. From
               | a security point of view I don't think the distinction
               | matters all that much.
               | 
               | That said, the situations I've head about were from
               | affiliate ransomware attacks that didn't make the news
               | because the backup worked. It's difficult to keep things
               | secure from highly motivated internal bad actors. I've
               | been told it's an increasing trend but have not heard
               | much about it publicly.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | It's perfectly believable. Whether it is more believable or
             | not is a toss up. If you employ such a large number of
             | people there are bound to be a couple of bad apples, and
             | unless you have _very_ good internal processes and
             | monitoring it isn 't all that hard to imagine someone doing
             | something they shouldn't be doing. But absent hard evidence
             | that it happened that way it interesting speculation but no
             | more than that, besides, it can be impossible to
             | distinguish between the two even if you have evidence of an
             | inside job that looks like incompetence!
        
             | zdragnar wrote:
             | Based on my experience working alongside TCS, incompetence
             | seems far more likely. If we'd asked for a back door, we'd
             | have gotten a solid wall.
             | 
             | Then again, my experience may have left me a little jaded.
        
           | fencepost wrote:
           | Note that M&S dropped TCS in July following the recovery. htt
           | ps://www.ft.com/content/289ec371-2ed4-425a-9bd0-c34e6db39...
           | and elsewhere.
        
       | rdtsc wrote:
       | > October 23, 2023: They confirm receipt and are working on
       | taking action. After this date and up until January 2, 2024,
       | there were various back and forth emails trying to get Tata
       | Motors to revoke the AWS keys. I am not sure if something was
       | lost in translation, but it took a lot of pestering and specific
       | instructions to get it done.
       | 
       | Wow, they had to go out of their way and plead with Tata Motors
       | to fix their own shit. I can only admire their patience. Can't
       | say I would be that patient.
        
       | spprashant wrote:
       | This is embarrassing.
        
       | fakedang wrote:
       | I'll just leave this here:
       | 
       | > September 1, 2023: Tata Motors shared with CERT-IN (who then
       | shared with me) that the issues are remediated. September 3,
       | 2023: I confirm only 2/4 issues were remediated and the AWS keys
       | were still present on the websites, and active. October 22, 2023:
       | After no updates and finding the AWS issues still not remediated,
       | I send over some more specific steps on what must be done.
       | October 23, 2023: They confirm receipt and are working on taking
       | action. After this date and up until January 2, 2024, there were
       | various back and forth emails trying to get Tata Motors to revoke
       | the AWS keys. I am not sure if something was lost in translation,
       | but it took a lot of pestering and specific instructions to get
       | it done.
       | 
       | Stay classy TCS.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | This shouldn't be a surprise for anyone who has worked with TCS
       | contractors in the past.
        
       | yahoozoo wrote:
       | Superpower by 2027.
        
       | debarshri wrote:
       | This is a pessimistic comment.
       | 
       | I'm a cofounder of a data and identity security startup operating
       | specifically in APAC. Data security in india a joke.
       | 
       | I would argue even with DPDPA, RBI C-Site and cyber resilience
       | framework from SEBI, it is just going to not happen here.
       | 
       | The list PAN card the blog is taking about is probably already
       | leaked by some other services.
       | 
       | The recent flipkart cash on delivery scams [1] are example of how
       | your personal information is just out there in wild in india,
       | open for exploitation.
       | 
       | There are lot of who do security in good faith (often driven by
       | compliance) and lot of them are our customers too but I hope to
       | see rest of indian tech ecosystem take security seriously.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/FuckFlipkart/comments/1hhrw9w/what_...
        
         | alephnerd wrote:
         | I've dealt with Indian companies for security sales and I'd say
         | the newer generation of companies like Razorpay (YC W15) are
         | decent at SecOps, but the older and more established companies
         | suck at it and will continue to suck at it until there is a
         | tangible regulatory incentive to enhance security postures.
         | 
         | It also appears to be a side effect of compensation - why would
         | mid-career security professional want to earn [?]15 LPA TC
         | working for a legacy corporation if they have the skills to
         | land at a security MNC that can afford to pay [?]35-50 LPA in
         | TC.
         | 
         | Ofc, it's us foreign investors who are able to afford those
         | higher TCs ;) - especially if we can convert someone who was
         | mid-career in the US but had to return to India due to family
         | or visa issues.
         | 
         | It reminds me of how the Israeli security scene was 10-15 years
         | ago, with similar problems around compensation and brain drain
         | to MNC offices.
        
       | connectsnk wrote:
       | Are there any open source tools that scans the code and detects
       | such gaffes
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-10-31 23:00 UTC)