[HN Gopher] This World of Ours (2014) [pdf]
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       This World of Ours (2014) [pdf]
        
       Author : xeonmc
       Score  : 222 points
       Date   : 2025-10-27 08:28 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.usenix.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.usenix.org)
        
       | samlinnfer wrote:
       | This will always be my favourite Mikens essay (The Slow Winter):
       | https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1309_14-17_mickens.pdf
        
         | chao- wrote:
         | Mine as well.
         | 
         | I have a fond memory of being at a party where someone had the
         | idea to do dramatic readings of various Mickens Usenix papers.
         | Even just doing partial readings, it was slow going, lots of
         | pauses to recover from overwhelming laughter. When the reading
         | of The Slow Winter got to "THE MAGMA PEOPLE ARE WAITING FOR OUR
         | MISTAKES", we had to stop because someone had laughed so hard
         | they threw up. Not in an awful way, but enough to give us a
         | pause in the action, and to decide we couldn't go on.
         | 
         | Good times.
        
           | eeeficus wrote:
           | Sounds like you found nerd heaven. I couldn't imagine a
           | situation like yours in my world! :)
        
           | purplehat_ wrote:
           | Bit of an aside, but I'm wondering in what city this was in.
           | 
           | I'm going to be job hunting soon and I was planning to
           | prioritize the Bay Area because that's the only place I've
           | encountered a decent density of people like this, but maybe
           | I'm setting my sights too short.
        
             | chao- wrote:
             | Houston, Texas.
             | 
             | There are nerds everywhere.
        
         | isoprophlex wrote:
         | > [...] it's pretty clear that compilers are a thing of the
         | past, and the next generation of processors will run English-
         | level pseudocode directly.
         | 
         | hilarious AND scary levels of prescient writing...
        
         | purplehat_ wrote:
         | If people want to read all six, here they are!
         | https://mickens.seas.harvard.edu/wisdom-james-mickens
         | 
         | My favorite is The Night Watch.
        
       | tuzemec wrote:
       | Somewhat related video: https://vimeo.com/95066828
        
       | optimalsolver wrote:
       | I think fighting Israel is kind of a glimpse into what trying to
       | fight a malevolent AGI will be like.
       | 
       | Expect to lose in highly surprising ways.
        
         | speedgoose wrote:
         | I don't know, driving a big truck into AWS' us-east-1 power
         | supply section sounds more than enough to take down internet
         | for a while.
        
           | ta1243 wrote:
           | I would _hope_ that data centre has multiple power supplies
           | from multiple locations - as well as UPS and on site
           | generators, certainly mine do.
           | 
           | However given AWS is so complex (which is required because
           | they want to be a gatekeeping platform) leading the uptime to
           | struggle to match a decent home setup, I'm not sure. I'm sure
           | there's no 6 figure bonus for checking the generators are
           | working, but a rounded corner on a button on an admin page?
        
           | WJW wrote:
           | Of course, but that's the point. Actual AGI wouldn't need to
           | limit itself pointlessly in ways that would make it obvious
           | to every internet rando how to hit it. Just as you cannot
           | kill an intelligence agency with a single strike, it could
           | distribute itself over many secret locations.
        
           | red-iron-pine wrote:
           | ITT: we've never spent time around ashburn va data centers.
           | 
           | most have big heavy barriers and multiple bollards and
           | fences. some of the reston va data centers have big glorious
           | planters out front and weird angles to walk up to the mantrap
           | -- to prevent trucks from driving through. the generators
           | usually have some sort of fence or bollards, and most are on
           | multiple power sources from the local and airport grids.
           | 
           | source: used to manage nova data centers and did plenty of
           | attack surface mapping. the truck-through-front-door approach
           | is consistently considered.
        
       | broodbucket wrote:
       | Remember, you don't have to be unhackable, just sufficiently
       | unimportant to not be worth burning any novel capability on
        
         | INTPenis wrote:
         | That's right, just keep your head down, smile and nod, do your
         | job and nothing will ever go wrong. /s
        
           | brigandish wrote:
           | A more charitable view would be to act like a zebra in a herd
           | of zebra rather than a zebra in a herd of horses.
        
             | IAmBroom wrote:
             | Charitable, but also privileged. Many people only have the
             | option of looking like a cow in a cattle yard.
        
           | GreenWatermelon wrote:
           | You /s but this is actually valid advice for someone who just
           | wants to get by in life and is content.
        
             | energy123 wrote:
             | Downvoted, but so much evil is caused by people due to
             | their distorted yet sincerely believed moral virtues. Not
             | due to an absence of morality but because of it. Whatever
             | you have in your mind as the image of quintessential evil
             | is probably caused by those people's sincerely held moral
             | system, a moral system they believed in as strongly as you
             | do yours. So people who just live their lives and do not
             | grasp on external change are fine by me.
        
               | GreenWatermelon wrote:
               | are you saying that you've downvoted me, or just pointing
               | out that I've been downvoted? If the former, why?
        
             | throwaway_dang wrote:
             | Do the bombs dropping in war zones avoid apolitical people?
             | If not, when is the appropriate time to get sufficiently
             | political to avoid having a bomb dropped on one's head?
        
               | adrianN wrote:
               | Very few individuals can influence whether or not bombs
               | drop. The best way to avoid having bombs dropped on your
               | head is moving to a place where fewer bombs are dropped.
        
               | jimnotgym wrote:
               | But many people together, although none of them
               | individually influencial enough, certainly can influence
               | where bombs get dropped.
               | 
               | When you start successfully reaching many people you can
               | be sure that security agencies will start watching you.
        
               | adrianN wrote:
               | In areas where bombs are dropped there is generally a
               | large majority in favor of stopping that, but they have
               | little influence.
        
               | GreenWatermelon wrote:
               | "Keeping your head down" means not doing anything that
               | would cause a government (especially your own) to want to
               | disappear you.
               | 
               | If you vocally oppose your tyrannical government, you
               | won't avoid a bomb on your head. In the best case you'll
               | get a bullet through your head. Worst case, you spend a
               | lifetime in a prison.
        
             | INTPenis wrote:
             | True enough. I'm content as long as I don't hear the news
             | anywhere. Recently had my dad over and he can't go 5
             | minutes without the news on in the background. Really hard
             | to be content then.
        
             | ragazzina wrote:
             | >someone who just wants to get by in life and is content
             | 
             | "It's the reductionist approach to life: if you keep it
             | small, you'll keep it under control. If you don't make any
             | noise, the bogeyman won't find you. But it's all an
             | illusion, because they die too, those people who roll up
             | their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe.
             | Safe?! From what? Life is always on the edge of death;
             | narrow streets lead to the same place as wide avenues, and
             | a little candle burns itself out just like a flaming torch
             | does."
        
               | lisbbb wrote:
               | That's stupid. It's not all an illusion. The scale
               | definitely matters. If you are buying stocks you can make
               | a profit as a little guy that if the big guys tried to do
               | it they would quickly become the "market maker" and the
               | strategy would not scale up. It's the same with criminal
               | activity or insurgency--small mosquitoes are ignored
               | while the major threats get swatted hard.
        
           | impossiblefork wrote:
           | I don't think that's the interpretation, but make your
           | computer systems disconnected from what you do.
           | 
           | If relevant adversaries don't know which computer to burn the
           | exploit on, then they won't burn it on the right one.
        
         | aa-jv wrote:
         | I think the more important maxim to follow is this: _if you
         | didn 't manufacture your own sillicon, you are infinitely more
         | hackable than if you did._
         | 
         | Alas, no matter how hard we try to trust our compilers, we must
         | also adopt methods to trust our _foundries_.
         | 
         | Oh, we don't have our own foundries?
         | 
         | Yeah, thats the real problem. _Who owns the foundries?_
        
           | pydry wrote:
           | When has anybody ever been hacked via a foundry?
           | 
           | While having your own foundry is undoubtedly a good thing
           | from the perspective of supply chain resiliency, if hacking
           | is what you're worried about there are probably easier ways
           | to mitigate (e.g. a bit more rigor in QC).
        
             | aa-jv wrote:
             | Do _you_ know what  "your" CPU is doing? Do you _really_?
        
               | lisbbb wrote:
               | I always figured the spy crap was programmed right in to
               | the chips themselves and the BIOS.
        
             | IAmBroom wrote:
             | "When" is what we will likely never know, given the
             | subterranean depth of trust _and_ visibility there.
             | Probably never...
        
             | kragen wrote:
             | Roughly everybody you've ever met, 100% of the time.
             | 
             | There's a reason the NSA can get Intel CPUs without IME and
             | you can't. Given the incentives and competence of the
             | people involved, it's probably an intentional vulnerability
             | that you can't escape because you don't fab your own chips.
             | There's strong circumstantial evidence that Huawei got
             | banned from selling their products in the US for doing the
             | same thing. And the Crypto AG backdoor (in hardware but
             | probably not in silicon) was probably central to a lot of
             | 20th-century international relations, though that wasn't
             | publicly known until much later.
             | 
             | And this is before we get into penny-ante malicious
             | hardware like laser printer toner cartridges, carrier-
             | locked cellphones, and HDMI copy protection.
             | 
             | No amount of QC is going to remove malicious hardware; at
             | best, it can tell you it's there.
        
             | purplehat_ wrote:
             | Not exactly what you're asking, but multiple CVEs have been
             | found in Intel's Management Engine (ME) which have been
             | used in spyware.
             | 
             | It might not be an intentional backdoor, but it very much
             | seems designed with out-of-band access in mind, with the
             | AMT remote management features and the fact that the
             | network controller has DMA (this enables packet
             | interception).
        
           | smithkl42 wrote:
           | Nah, if I manufactured my own silicon, I'd be infinitely more
           | hackable than I am right now - just like if I wrote my own
           | crypto code. 99.9999% of people are going to be more secure
           | if they just rely on publicly accessible cryptography (and
           | silicon). Otherwise you're just going to be making stupid
           | mistakes that real cryptographers and security folks found
           | and wrote defenses against three decades ago.
        
             | MomsAVoxell wrote:
             | If you _could_ make your own silicon, you could create a
             | guild or a federation to audit it, and then your trust
             | circle would be smaller and therefore safer.
             | 
             | >Otherwise you're just going to be making stupid mistakes
             | that real cryptographers and security folks found and wrote
             | defenses against three decades ago.
             | 
             | Yeah, thats the point, learn those same techniques, get it
             | in the guild, and watch each others backs.
             | 
             | Rather than just 'trusting' some faceless war profiteers
             | from the midst of an out of control military-industrial
             | complex.
        
         | shiandow wrote:
         | Given that choice I'd rather choose to be unhackable.
        
         | itsnowandnever wrote:
         | I think people don't understand what this means either. the
         | nation-state "agencies" that can and will get into your
         | network/devices can do so because they would employ tactics
         | like kidnapping and blackmailing a local telco field
         | technician. or if it's your own government, they can show up
         | with some police and tell them to do whatever and most will
         | comply without even receiving a proper court order.
         | 
         | so unless you're worth all that trouble, you're really just
         | trying to avoid being "low hanging fruit" compromised by some
         | batch script probing known (and usually very old)
         | vulnerabilities
        
           | red-iron-pine wrote:
           | plenty of big telcos push back to gub'mnt orders. they
           | usually get a warrant.
           | 
           | or they just pay the $2100 per API call to download it from
           | the telco or social media company.
           | 
           | it's not improper if you agreed to give a company the ability
           | to sell your data to anyone -- the government is anyone, and
           | they have the money.
        
         | andai wrote:
         | So the advice would be for an activist to choose extremely
         | boring forms of activism? ;)
        
           | broodbucket wrote:
           | If you're at that level where some powerful entity really
           | takes an interest in you, you just have to operate as if
           | you're always compromised, I think.
        
         | lisbbb wrote:
         | I like the "gray man" concept, but can't predict when you end
         | up on the radar or why. As a young graduate student, I once
         | wrote an article that rebuffed the government's "Total
         | Information Awareness" trial balloon and suddenly found myself
         | embroiled in much unexpected controversy, including some big
         | name journalists e-mailing me and asking questions. You just
         | never know when you stumble into something that you're not
         | supposed to know about and what might happen.
        
       | edu wrote:
       | That's a fun take, similar to the classic XKCD 538: Security.
       | https://xkcd.com/538/
        
         | hshdhdhehd wrote:
         | The 4096 bits just stops it being so easy to surveil you that
         | it is hyper-automated. So there is some use. The $5 wrench
         | needs a million dollar operation to get that guy to your house.
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | Oh come on, that's way over budget! Every time I managed such
           | an operation, we'd just rent a van and... uh, I mean, um, I
           | heard it costs less.
           | 
           | <NO CARRIER>
        
             | hshdhdhehd wrote:
             | Its a million dollars to the defense contractor who lobbies
             | for more wrench attacks.
        
           | ta1243 wrote:
           | Depends how strong the protections of your civil society is,
           | but it doesn't cost $1m to send a goon with a crowbar or
           | shotgun. Sure that doesn't scale, but if _you_ are a target
           | you 're screwed
        
             | hshdhdhehd wrote:
             | The $1m is the stuff they did to the point where they knew
             | where to send the goon.
             | 
             | If you are a target you are screwed. But clever crypto
             | isn't useless.
        
               | sigwinch wrote:
               | Probably used to average over $1m. Nowadays, those
               | operations (polonium, novachuk, expending expensive KGB
               | resources) send a signal. Otherwise, swatting your home
               | while they drain your wallets; or threatening to swat;
               | quite inexpensive.
        
         | dominicrose wrote:
         | this is why you need a fake password that provides access to
         | fake content that looks like the real content
        
       | eirini1 wrote:
       | Never agreed with this logic. For a lot of people (anyone that
       | does political activism of some sort for example) the threat
       | model can be a lot more nuanced. It might not be Mossad or the
       | CIA gunning for you, specifically, but it might police searching
       | you and your friend's laptops or phones. It might be burglars
       | targetting the office of the small organization you have and the
       | small servers you have running there.
        
         | rini17 wrote:
         | You did not write what you actually disagree with....
        
           | turboturbo wrote:
           | The false dichotomy
        
             | rini17 wrote:
             | The dichotomy between what average people(including
             | political activists) can actually handle and stuff proposed
             | by security researchers is real.
        
               | anonym29 wrote:
               | The idea that average people can't handle incremental
               | improvements like a password manager, MFA, full disk
               | encryption, etc is unhealthy infantilization of people
               | who are entirely capable of understanding the concepts,
               | the benefits, the risks they address, and appreciating
               | the benefits of them.
               | 
               | Most people just don't care enough until after they're
               | hacked, at which point they care just enough to wish
               | they'd done something more previously, which is just shy
               | of enough to start doing something differently going
               | forward.
               | 
               | It's not that normies are too stupid figure this out,
               | it's that they make risk accept decisions on risks they
               | don't thoroughly understand or care enough about to want
               | to understand. My personal observation is that the
               | concept of even thinking about potential future
               | technology risks at all (let alone considering changing
               | behavior to mitigate those risks) seems to represent an
               | almost an almost pathological level of proactive
               | preparation to normies, the same way that preppers
               | building bunkers with years of food and water storage
               | look to the rest of us.
        
               | rini17 wrote:
               | I do understand the concepts and exactly because of that
               | I doubt I myself would be able of airtight opsec against
               | any determined adversary, not even state-level one. I
               | think it's humility, you think I infantilize myself lol.
               | 
               | I do use password manager and disk encryption, just for
               | case of theft. Still feels like one stupid sleepy
               | misclick away from losing stuff and no amount of MFAs or
               | whatever is going to save me, they actually feel like
               | added complexity which leads to mistakes.
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | the maximalist false dillema of "all or nothing": either it's
           | a super-poweful super-human agency and you can't do anything,
           | else any half-measure is fine
        
         | bell-cot wrote:
         | _Yep._ While there might be _some_ use cases for his ultra-
         | simplistic  "Mossad/not-Mossad duality" - say, convincing Bob
         | Jones that "b0bj0nes" is not a great password - it's 99% fairy
         | tale.
         | 
         | And even if the CIA/Mossad/NSA/whoever is "interested" in you -
         | this is the era of mass surveillance. The chances that you're
         | worth a Stuxnet level of effort is 0.000000001%. Vs. 99.999%
         | chance that they'll happily hoover up your data, if you make it
         | pretty easy for their automated systems to do that.
        
           | tonnydourado wrote:
           | Also worth noting that Mossad/CIA/etc. are not monoliths.
           | Maybe you got a top agent assigned to you, but maybe your
           | file is on the desk of the Mossad's version of Hitchcock and
           | Scully from Brooklyn 99.
        
           | zahlman wrote:
           | > Yep. While there might be some use cases for his ultra-
           | simplistic "Mossad/not-Mossad duality" - say, convincing Bob
           | Jones that "b0bj0nes" is not a great password - it's 99%
           | fairy tale.
           | 
           | Honestly, the oversimplification here reads to me more like
           | something Bob Jones could use to _justify not caring_ about
           | "b0bj0nes" not being a great password.
        
             | bell-cot wrote:
             | I was thinking, "Bob, stop making excuses about how it's
             | hopeless, and you'd need a 'U0hBNTEyICgvdmFyL2xvZy9tZXNzYWd
             | lcykgPSBjNGU2NGM1MmI5MDhiYWU3MDU5NzdlMzUzZDlk'-level
             | password to be safe. That 'b0bj0nes' is so easy that a
             | bored kid might get it in a few dozen guesses, and you need
             | to change it to something better."
        
               | wpollock wrote:
               | That password should include symbols too! Without
               | symbols, each character is one of 62 values (sticking to
               | ASCII letters and digits). Including symbols makes it
               | much harder to guess passwords of a given length. Even
               | better would be Unicode letters, digits, and symbols,
               | even if you stick to the Basic Multilingual Plane.
               | 
               | Best would be non-text, binary strings. Since I already
               | use a password manager, I don't really need to type
               | passwords by hand. But I do understand most people prefer
               | text passwords that could be entered by hand if
               | necessary.
        
               | bell-cot wrote:
               | Except that's exactly what the Mossad will be expecting
               | us to use, for our uber-secure password! By eschewing
               | symbols and binary, we are actually meta-out-smarting
               | their ultimate giga-quantum nuclear crypto cracker.
               | 
               | Or: This is Bob "Dim Bulb" Jones we're talking to. KISS,
               | and _maybe_ we can convince him to upgrade his password
               | to  "iwantacoldbeernow".
        
               | jasomill wrote:
               | "iwantacoldbeernow"
               | 
               |  _Sorry, your password does not meet complexity
               | requirements because it does not contain at least one of
               | each of the following: uppercase letters, lowercase
               | letters, numeric digits, nonalphanumeric symbols._
               | 
               | "I want 1 cold beer now."
               | 
               |  _Sorry, your password may not contain spaces._
               | 
               | "Iwant1coldbeernow."
               | 
               |  _Sorry, your password is too long._
               | 
               | "Iwant1beernow."
               | 
               |  _Sorry, your password is too long._
               | 
               | "1Beer?"
               | 
               |  _Sorry, your password is too short._
               | 
               | "Password1!"
               | 
               |  _Thank you. Your password has been changed._
        
         | YesThatTom2 wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure his point was that security labels are a dead
         | end.
         | 
         | (Have you ever attended an academic security conference like
         | Usenix Security?)
        
         | shermantanktop wrote:
         | The third mode is enabled by scale of data and compute. If
         | enough data from enough sources is processed by enough compute,
         | Mossad does not need to have a prior interest in you in order
         | for you to fit a profile that they are interested in.
         | 
         | Anyone else see all the drones flying over a peaceful No Kings
         | assembly?
        
         | some_random wrote:
         | Yeah it's extremely immature, even within police agencies
         | there's a huge variation on their ability to perform digital
         | forensics. Furthermore, just because the feds don't like you
         | for whatever reason doesn't mean they're going to deploy their
         | top-of-the-line exploits against you, or detain and torture
         | you, or whatever magic voodoo bullshit the author thinks the
         | Mossad can do.
        
       | megous wrote:
       | Not sure what audience he is talking to. Experts deal with a lot
       | more issues that sit between choosing a good password + not
       | falling for phishing and "giving up because mossad". The
       | terminology that he sprinkles about suggests the audience is
       | experts.
        
         | rini17 wrote:
         | The article actually addresses this -- that all these extra
         | issues are not manageable for mere mortals anyway and/or
         | perfectly spherical cows are involved.
        
           | megous wrote:
           | It does not. It just invents a bunch of straw men, and then
           | mocks them.
        
             | rini17 wrote:
             | Such as?
        
             | IAmBroom wrote:
             | Literally what you are doing with the article right now.
        
       | impossiblefork wrote:
       | The Mossad part is a very silly element of the text. Many
       | organizations have to defend against US intelligence, Israeli
       | intelligence etc., and I'm sure, that they, with the exception of
       | some very terrible countries with a lot of incompetence or full
       | of disloyal people likely to become infiltrators, are quite
       | successful.
       | 
       | Actual security is possible even against the most powerful and
       | determined adversaries, and it's possible even for _you_.
        
         | IAmBroom wrote:
         | Well, data security. Right up until the wetware is included.
        
           | impossiblefork wrote:
           | I think, a lot of people imagine these people as very
           | capable, and they think of things like those pagers etc., but
           | when I think of them I think of the Lillehammer affair and a
           | bunch of other similarly silly business, so I'm much less
           | impressed with them, feeling that they're basically silly
           | people.
           | 
           | There's so many cock-ups etc. that you can read about
           | Wikipedia that I don't understand why people hold these
           | people highly and imagine them to be so able. They simply
           | aren't.
        
       | lifestyleguru wrote:
       | Then how it's possible Mossad didn't know about what had happened
       | on 7 October 2023?
        
         | INTPenis wrote:
         | This is exactly the type of comment that will get you mossad'd.
        
           | lifestyleguru wrote:
           | ok I'll keep you updated, but I don't own any real estate
           | they could "de-Hamasify"
        
         | ozirus wrote:
         | Domestic intel = Shin Bet, not Mossad
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | The same way the US didn't know about 9/11. Intelligence
         | failures.
         | 
         | (Portions of the US intelligence apparatus knew, but that
         | knowledge didn't transition into action)
        
           | energy123 wrote:
           | Israel's intelligence services (not Mossad) did collect valid
           | signals, such as sim cards in Gaza being swapped out for
           | Israel sim cards, but it was ignored as another false
           | positive. What the public don't see are all the false
           | positives (like many drills for an attack that don't
           | materialize) that drown out valid signals when the attack is
           | actually going to happen. There's also hesitancy to act on
           | signals because drills are used to expose intelligence.
           | 
           | It's one of the many asymmetries that changes when you are
           | the defender versus the attacker. As the defender, you have
           | to be right 100% of the time. As the attacker, you have the
           | luxury of being right only 30% of the time. The law of large
           | numbers is on the side of the attacker. This applies to
           | missile offense/defense and to usage of intelligence.
           | 
           | This information asymmetry is also one of the key drivers of
           | the security dilemma, which in turn causes arms races and
           | conflict. The defender knows they can't be perfect all the
           | time, so they have an incentive to preemptively attack if the
           | probability of future problems based on their assessment of
           | current information is high enough.
           | 
           | In the case of Gaza there was also an assessment that Hamas
           | were deterred, which were the tinted glasses through which
           | signals were assessed. Israel also assumed a certain shape of
           | an attack, and the minimal mobilisation of Hamas did not fit
           | that expected template. So the intelligence failure was also
           | a failure in security doctrine and institutional culture. The
           | following principles need to be reinforced: (i) don't assume
           | the best, (ii) don't expect rationality and assume a rival is
           | deterred even if they should be, (iii) intention causes
           | action, believe a rival when they say they want to do X
           | instead of projecting your own worldview onto them, (iv)
           | don't become fixated on a particular scenario, keep the
           | distribution (scenario analyses) broad
        
             | dominicrose wrote:
             | Avoiding a car accident has a low cost, you just have to
             | take it slowly and be 1 min late to your meeting or
             | whatever, but deciding wether you should attack first based
             | on a small suspicion, that a hell of a problem, because if
             | you're wrong, you're seen as the bad guy. And maybe even if
             | you're right and can't prove it.
        
               | energy123 wrote:
               | > because if you're wrong, you're seen as the bad guy.
               | And maybe even if you're right and can't prove it.
               | 
               | An example of this is France cutting off all support
               | after Israel's initiation of the Six Day War, which
               | followed signals such as Egypt massing troops on the
               | border. The problem for Israel was the lack of strategic
               | depth combined with the geographical low ground, which
               | creates these hair trigger scenarios with no room for
               | error, reducing the threshold to act preemptively. The
               | more abstract problem was the absence of a hegemon in the
               | late 20th century that had security control over West
               | Asia, which is a necessary and sufficient condition for
               | resolving the security dilemma.
        
             | IAmBroom wrote:
             | > As the attacker, you have the luxury of being right only
             | 30% of the time.
             | 
             | Interesting number you suggested. That's a pretty normal
             | success rate for a carnivore attacking prey.
        
         | throwaway_dang wrote:
         | Maybe they did but it was permitted to happen to provide the
         | pretext to expand those Greater Israel borders.
        
         | 2rsf wrote:
         | a. I am too lazy to search but they probably did, the problem
         | was what was done with the information. Same with 8200 the all
         | mighty signal intelligence corps
         | 
         | b. The Mossad is the equivalent of the CIA, they are not meant
         | to act inside Israel
        
           | ta1243 wrote:
           | > b. The Mossad is the equivalent of the CIA, they are not
           | meant to act inside Israel
           | 
           | For that purpose is Gaza inside or not inside Israel?
        
             | 2rsf wrote:
             | Yes (TBD)
        
             | lifestyleguru wrote:
             | Israel would probably dispute it, but for most of the world
             | Gaza in relation to Israel is "abroad" and not "domestic".
        
             | rgblambda wrote:
             | Shin Bet (Israeli internal security service) have an Arab
             | desk that covers the West Bank & Gaza.
        
         | smashah wrote:
         | They didn't know about the pretense they wanted to spend the
         | following 2+ years making unlimited fallacious justifications
         | for committing a live-streamed holocaust of children? Who told
         | you that?
        
         | drdrek wrote:
         | Actually Gaza and the West Bank are handled by the "Shabak"
         | agency which is the equivalent of the FBI while the "Mossad"
         | agency is only for foreign operations and is equivalent to the
         | CIA
         | 
         | And asking how did they miss something is like asking how come
         | AWS has downtime. But I'm sure you could come to this
         | conclusion on your own if you didn't really want the answer to
         | be something else.
        
           | torginus wrote:
           | And the article is a huge rant about why security people are
           | stupid for worrying about the most clearly implausible shit
           | ever.
        
         | IAmBroom wrote:
         | Lack of omniscience, infinite computing power, and yottabyte
         | storage facilities?
        
           | lifestyleguru wrote:
           | Dunno, Microsoft was quite generous with their cloud plan.
        
         | smashah wrote:
         | They didn't know about Hannibal Directive Celebration Day? Who
         | told you that?
        
       | torginus wrote:
       | If your adversary is a state intelligence agency, you're probably
       | a high ranking politician and a boomer who is clueless about
       | computers, and has demonstrably terrible opsec, either through
       | government incompetence of your own agencies, or not following
       | the terribly cumbersome opsec procedures, either because of
       | inconvenience, the policies being terrible or sheer incompetence.
       | 
       | The amount of examples we've seen of this is staggering.
        
         | sigwinch wrote:
         | That sounds like an elected legislator, not like the kind of
         | person with close access to compartmentalized info. And its the
         | form of a leak of policy or some covert program; details which
         | could also be bought; so it's called "retail" compared with
         | systematic.
        
           | torginus wrote:
           | I think saying that people like Hillary Clinton, Trump, Biden
           | or Bolton didn't have access to highly sensitive information
           | is not a reasonable stance (and those are just the ones we
           | know about).
        
             | sigwinch wrote:
             | It's good that no one is arguing that. But your argument
             | isn't strong. You're saying that numbers matter. Those
             | kinds of people go in and out of SCIFs. If they belch a
             | secret at lunch, maybe it has lobbying implications, but it
             | wasn't compartmentalized. It can even be disinfo.
             | 
             | The real ROI is to land a Jonathan Pollard. Not even a
             | million Hegseths can leak enough info to collect into one
             | Pollard.
        
       | mike_hearn wrote:
       | It's hilarious, but the hilarity gets in the way of recognizing
       | how much insight there is also there. It makes serious points.
       | This part about the Mossad is especially astonishing given the
       | pager attack:
       | 
       |  _> If your adversary is the Mossad, YOU'RE GONNA DIE AND THERE'S
       | NOTHING THAT YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. The Mossad is not intimidated
       | by the fact that you employ https: //. If the Mossad wants your
       | data, they're going to use a drone to replace your cellphone with
       | a piece of uranium that's shaped like a cellphone_
       | 
       | It's like a Mossad agent read this paper and thought hey that's
       | actually not a bad idea.
       | 
       | But the core rant is about dubious assumptions in academic
       | cryptography papers. I was also reading a lot of academic crypto
       | papers in 2014, and the assumptions got old real fast. Mickens
       | mocks these ideas:
       | 
       | * _" There are heroes and villains with fantastic (yet oddly
       | constrained) powers"_. Totally standard way to get a paper
       | published. Especially annoying were the mathematical proofs that
       | sound rigorous to outsiders but quietly assume that the adversary
       | just can't/won't solve a certain kind of equation, because it
       | would be inconvenient to prove the scheme secure if they did. Or
       | the "exploits" that only worked if nobody had upgraded their
       | software stack for five years. Or the systems that assume a
       | perfect implementation with no way to recover if anything goes
       | wrong.
       | 
       | * _" you could enlist a well-known technology company to [run a
       | PKI], but this would offend the refined aesthetics of the vaguely
       | Marxist but comfortably bourgeoisie hacker community who wants
       | everything to be decentralized"_, lol. This got really tiresome
       | when I worked on Bitcoin. Lots of semi-technical people who had
       | never run any large system constantly attacking every plausible
       | design of implementable complexity because it wasn't
       | decentralized enough for their tastes, sometimes not even
       | proposing anything better.
       | 
       | * _" These [social networks] are not the best people in the
       | history of people, yet somehow, I am supposed to stitch these
       | clowns into a rich cryptographic tapestry that supports key
       | revocation and verifiable audit trails"_ - another variant of
       | believing decentralized cryptography and PKI is easy.
       | 
       | He also talks about security labels like in SELinux but I never
       | read those papers. I think Mickens used humor to try and get
       | people talking about some of the bad patterns in academic
       | cryptography, but if you want a more serious paper that makes
       | some similar points there's one here:
       | 
       | https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/1336.pdf
        
         | Yizahi wrote:
         | > Lots of semi-technical people who had never run any large
         | system constantly attacking every plausible design of
         | implementable complexity because it wasn't decentralized enough
         | for their tastes, sometimes not even proposing anything better.
         | 
         | And for added fun, that same radical decentralization crowd,
         | finally settling on the extremely centralized Lightning crutch,
         | which is not only centralized but also computationally over
         | complicated and buggy.
        
         | ta1243 wrote:
         | > you could enlist a well-known technology company to [run a
         | PKI],
         | 
         | If you have a single company, then that's easy enough for a
         | group like Mossad to infiltrate. Probably easier than a
         | distributed system.
        
           | mike_hearn wrote:
           | The best known PKI (webtrust) is many companies, not a single
           | company. So it's distributed but that makes it easier to hack
           | not harder because you have many possible targets instead of
           | just one.
        
         | jojobas wrote:
         | It is kinda funny, but cost and benefit analysis is not foreign
         | even to Mossad. Mossad would prefer quite a few people's data
         | stolen, but they are not going to carry out a black abroad for
         | most of them.
        
         | commandlinefan wrote:
         | > going to use a drone to replace your cellphone with a piece
         | of uranium
         | 
         | That's assuming they can figure out who you are in the first
         | place. My pipe dream for the internet (that I thought we were
         | getting way back in the 90's) is total anonymity. You can say
         | whatever you like about the mossad, or the NSA or the KGB or
         | whatever you like, and they'll never be able to figure out
         | whose cellphone to replace with a piece of uranium.
         | 
         | We have the technology to make it happen (thanks to the
         | paranoid security researchers!) just not the collective will to
         | allow it.
        
           | nathan_compton wrote:
           | The biggest social challenge to this is astro-turfing, from
           | my own point of view. Even total anonymity with proof of work
           | doesn't solve the problem. Like the idea we _want_ is that
           | people can speak truth to power. But total anonymity makes it
           | quite difficult to figure out if its power speaking lies to
           | create a false perception of the truth.
           | 
           | I mean go read 4chan, a place where there is something like
           | total anonymity. Those people are constantly imagining that
           | half the comments on the site are generated by intelligence
           | agencies and, who knows, maybe they are right? I really do
           | wonder if there is any way to reap the rewards of total
           | anonymity without the poison of bad actors.
           | 
           | I'm somewhat moderate on the issue from a practical point of
           | view. I think citizens have a right to some sort of
           | reasonable privacy and I don't think laws which try to
           | regulate the technical mechanisms by which we can have it
           | make sense, no matter how evil the use of the technology is.
           | But I don't think that, in the end, it is beyond the remit of
           | authority to snoop with, for example, a court order, and the
           | means to do so. I expect authority to abuse power, but I
           | don't think that technological solutions can prevent that.
           | Only a vigilant citizenry can do it.
        
           | ikamm wrote:
           | If you think the bots and bad actors are bad now...
        
       | smashah wrote:
       | Very true, unfortunately there's no password strong enough to
       | stop Malaysian Airlines ground crew from loading a pallet full of
       | Mossad-rigged walkie talkies on my flight from Kuala Lumpur to
       | Beijing via conveniently-placed-NATO-AWACS-infested airspace.
       | 
       | 2FA isn't going to protect me from cruising altitude walkie
       | talkie detonation and having the debris scattered over an
       | impossibly wide area.
       | 
       | I guess the best thing to do is not take an airline of a country
       | that has recently showed public support for Gaza specifically
       | during a humanitarian visit in the months prior to my flight.
       | 
       | Thankfully none of this is true and everything the mainstream
       | media and governments tell us are true - imagine if things
       | weren't as they seemed?.. Craziness... Back to my password
       | manager!
        
       | gjvc wrote:
       | this guy's stuff reads like word salad and people lap it up. I've
       | never understood why.
        
         | Havoc wrote:
         | Despite word salad it is entertaining and the core message is
         | valid
        
         | EdwardDiego wrote:
         | Because it's a funny rant.
        
         | torginus wrote:
         | He wrote quirky internet humor before it was mainstream, in
         | fact he's a victim of his own success - when this article came
         | out this would've been considered funny and witty writing, but
         | has become tired and derivative enough today to provoke a
         | negative reaction.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I've always enjoyed Mikens' writing. He has a great sense of
       | humor.
       | 
       | I like his using Mossad as the extreme. I guess "Mossad'd" is now
       | a verb.
        
       | zkmon wrote:
       | Security is a problem caused by ownership of some usefulness.
       | Sometimes solution can be around addressing these two causes.
        
         | tarjei_huse wrote:
         | Do you have a concrete example?
        
           | zkmon wrote:
           | Do not have concentrated usefulness and do not have
           | concentrated ownership.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | I see this on reddit a lot in self hosting context.
       | 
       | The range of things people do on security is wild. Everything
       | from publicly expose everything and pray the apps login function
       | some random threw together is solid to elaborate intrusion
       | detection systems.
        
       | jones89176 wrote:
       | I enjoyed "The Night Watch" a lot:
       | 
       | https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/mickens/files/thenightwatc...
       | 
       | > A systems programmer will know what to do when society breaks
       | down, because the systems programmer already lives in a world
       | without law.
        
       | dnlserrano wrote:
       | Mickens essays are always a good read
        
       | contrarian1234 wrote:
       | I think the central premise is a "wrong". The "point" of science
       | isn't really to do useful things. Framing things from that angle
       | is in subtle ways dangerous bc that shouldnt be part of the
       | incentive structure.
       | 
       | you dont understand the mating behaviors of naked mole rats bc of
       | some sense of "usefulness". Its just an investigation of nature
       | and how things work. The usefulness comes out unexpectedly. Like
       | you find out naked mole are actually maybe biologically immortal
       | 
       | You should just find interesting phenomena and invetigate.
       | Capitalism figures out the usefulness side of things
        
         | wmwragg wrote:
         | Yeah, Science shouldn't be concerned with usefulness, just like
         | Art. It's the application of those fields which should concern
         | itself with usefulness i.e. applied science, engineering,
         | design etc. I'm not saying that scientific research shouldn't
         | be carried out by companies with specific goals in mind, just
         | that it shouldn't be the expected default.
        
       | kragen wrote:
       | Both Assange and Snowden are apparently alive and well, despite
       | Mossad-like agencies wishing otherwise, largely thanks to Tor;
       | and Hamas, whose adversary was in fact the Mossad, apparently
       | still exists. Hizbullah has hopefully taught us all a good lesson
       | about supply-chain attacks.
       | 
       | Debian is probably the only example of a successful public
       | public-key infrastructure, but SSH keys are a perfectly
       | serviceable form of public-key infrastructure in everyday life.
       | At least for developers.
       | 
       | Mickens's skepticism about security labels is, however,
       | justified; the problems he identifies are why object-capability
       | models seem more successful in practice.
       | 
       | I do agree that better passwords are a good idea, and, prior to
       | the widespread deployment of malicious microphones, were adequate
       | authentication for many purposes--if you can avoid being phished.
       | My own secure password generator is
       | http://canonical.org/~kragen/sw/netbook-misc-devel/bitwords....,
       | and some of its modes are memorable correct-horse-battery-staple-
       | type passwords. It's arguably slightly blasphemous, so you may be
       | offended if you are an observant Hindu.
        
         | sigwinch wrote:
         | Why did you choose random's SystemRandom rather than secrets?
        
           | kragen wrote:
           | What?
           | 
           | Oh, you mean PEP 506. I wrote this program in 02012, and PEP
           | 506 wasn't written until 02015, didn't ship in a released
           | Python until 3.6 in 02016, and even then was only available
           | in Python 3, which I didn't use because it basically didn't
           | work at the time.
           | 
           | PEP 506 is just 22 lines of code wrapping SystemRandom.
           | There's no advantage over just using SystemRandom directly.
        
             | _zoltan_ wrote:
             | what is 02012 and why write it so strange?
        
               | namibj wrote:
               | They want to feel like they matter in over 10k years from
               | now, where a 4-digit year would start to wrap.
        
               | zahlman wrote:
               | In fact that will be not even 8k years from now.
        
               | sigwinch wrote:
               | I'll be very embarrassed when I'm still writing 9999 on
               | my checks.
        
               | ahoka wrote:
               | Obviously it's octal and the person is a time traveler
               | from the 11th century.
        
               | will4274 wrote:
               | It's the long now foundation thing. The long now
               | foundation encourages writing years with five digits to
               | encourage readers to think about long term planning, to
               | plan for a future of humanity that is measured in more
               | than thousands of years.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Now_Foundation
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45505856>
               | 
               | <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43463920>
               | 
               | <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39175614>
        
         | prometheus76 wrote:
         | > prior to the widespread deployment of malicious microphones,
         | were adequate authentication for many purposes
         | 
         | Can you elaborate on this? I don't understand the context for
         | malicious microphones and how that affects secure passwords.
        
           | kragen wrote:
           | Oh, well, it turns out that keyboard sounds leak enough
           | entropy to make it easy to attack even very strong passwords.
           | 
           | Microphones on devices such as Ring doorbell cameras are
           | explicitly exfiltrating audio data out of your control
           | whenever they're activated. Features like Alexa and Siri
           | require, in some sense, 24/7 microphone activation, although
           | normally that data isn't transmitted off-device except on
           | explicit (vocal) user request. But that control is imposed by
           | non-user-auditable device firmware that can be remotely
           | updated at any time.
           | 
           | Finally, for a variety of reasons, it's becoming increasingly
           | common to have a microphone active and transmitting data
           | intentionally, often to public contexts like livestreaming
           | video.
           | 
           | With the proliferation of such potentially vulnerable
           | microphones in our daily lives, we should not rely too
           | heavily on the secrecy of short strings that can easily leak
           | through the audio channel.
        
             | antonvs wrote:
             | Using a password manager is an easy and useful protection
             | against audio leaks of passwords.
             | 
             | But this is an example of the kind of thing the OP is
             | talking about. You're probably not at a very realistic risk
             | of having your password hacked via audio exfiltrated from
             | the Ring camera at your front door. Unless it's Mossad et
             | al who want your password.
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | Like "you're probably not at a very realistic risk of
               | having your phone wiretapped", this is overindexing on
               | past experience--remember that until Room 641A commenced
               | operations in 02003
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A), you _weren
               | 't_, and after it did, your phone was virtually
               | guaranteed to be wiretapped. Similarly, you aren't at a
               | very realistic risk of having your password hacked via
               | audio, until someone is doing this to 80% of the people
               | in the world. As far as we know, this hasn't happened
               | yet, but it certainly will.
        
         | eykanal wrote:
         | > ...Assange and Snowden...
         | 
         | I'd argue that for every Assange and Snowden, there are 100
         | (1k? 100k?) people using Tor for illegal, immoral, and
         | otherwise terrible things. If you're OK with that, then sure,
         | fine point.
         | 
         | > SSH keys
         | 
         | Heartbleed and Terrapin were both pretty brutal attacks on
         | common PKI infra. It's definitely serviceable and very good,
         | but vulnerabilities can go for forever without being noticed,
         | and when they are found they're devastating.
        
           | kragen wrote:
           | Mickens was arguing that security was illusory, not, as you
           | are, that it was subversive and immoral. My comments were
           | directed at his point. I am not interested in your idea that
           | it would be better for nobody to have any privacy.
        
             | eykanal wrote:
             | > ...who non-ironically believes that Tor is used for
             | things besides drug deals and kidnapping plots.
             | 
             | That was the quote I was referring to. Also, of course I
             | didn't say that no one should have any privacy; I simply
             | implied a high moral cost for this particular form of
             | privacy.
        
               | atomic128 wrote:
               | Continuously updated HTTP response dumps from all the
               | major Tor hidden services: https://rnsaffn.com/zg4/
               | 
               | It is accurate to say that Tor's hidden service ecosystem
               | is focused on drugs, ransomware, cryptocurrency, and sex
               | crime.
               | 
               | However, there are other important things happening
               | there. You can think of the crime as cover traffic to
               | hide those important things. So it's all good.
        
               | JohnBooty wrote:
               | Definitely some heinous-sounding stuff.
               | 
               | The third result was "FREE $FOO PORN" where $FOO was
               | something that nearly the entire human race recognizes as
               | deeply Not Okay and is illegal everywhere.
               | 
               | I wonder what % of the heinous-sounding sites are
               | actually providing the things they say they are.
               | 
               | I'm sure that some (most?) of them actually offer heinous
               | stuff. But surely some of them are honeypots run by law
               | enforcement and some are just straight up scams. However,
               | I have no sense of whether that percentage is 1% or 99%.
        
           | yapyap wrote:
           | If you truly have a secure tool you won't be able to control
           | what your users do with it.
        
         | psunavy03 wrote:
         | The idea that either of them are at risk of being whacked is
         | utter tinfoil-hattery. The worst Snowden has to fear is being
         | convicted and jailed, and it says a lot about him that he fled
         | to Russia of all places instead of manning up and facing trial.
        
           | willmarch wrote:
           | Snowden didn't choose Russia as a destination. He left Hong
           | Kong for Latin America and got stranded in Moscow when the
           | U.S. revoked his passport mid-transit. He spent weeks in the
           | airport transit zone while seeking asylum from multiple
           | countries; Russia gave him temporary asylum after that.
           | 
           | "Manning up and facing trial" sounds fair in theory, but
           | under the Espionage Act there's no public-interest defense.
           | He'd be barred from explaining motive or the public value of
           | the disclosures, much of the case would be classified, and
           | past national-security whistleblowers have faced severe
           | penalties. That's why he sought asylum.
        
           | alwa wrote:
           | Being convicted and jailed can be pretty bad. Didn't Robert
           | Hanssen end up in Florence ADMAX until he died [0]? And,
           | maybe a more direct comparison, Wikileaker Joshua Schulte
           | [1]?
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Schulte
        
           | BLKNSLVR wrote:
           | It was the US that forced Snowden into Russia.
        
         | uvaursi wrote:
         | Neither Assange nor Snowden are a threat anymore. They are
         | contained and have next to no ability anymore. So it would be a
         | waste of resources to pursue them. The lackeys (police etc) are
         | all that's needed here to harass them and make their lives
         | miserable. What's Mossad going to do? Kill them with
         | explosives? That takes all the fun out of torturing them and
         | making their lives miserable by proxy.
         | 
         | The only thing I see is that both are contained and
         | quarantined. The threat of both has been neutralized to the
         | degree where I think the espionage agencies of all these
         | countries are playing along together to keep the engine of
         | their craft going uninterrupted without fuss.
         | 
         | In other words, you have to be gullible to think an embassy
         | cares about protecting Assange. It's a phone call from the
         | secret service director saying "Keep him there for now, it's
         | where we want him."
        
       | drdrek wrote:
       | The point about the lay person not needing massive parallelism
       | was very true, until it was not :D
        
       | anthk wrote:
       | Ah, very Germanic tactics against some Mediterranean foe. Us,
       | Southern Mediterranean/half Atlantic guys, we have it easier. We
       | would just put fake data, hints and traces untl they get mad and
       | paranoid between themselves, we are experts on that since
       | forever.
       | 
       | Also, the Southern part of the country (which I am pretty much
       | not related culturally at least on folklore and tons of customs)
       | managed to bribe even the Russian mafias. They were that crazy,
       | it's like a force of nature. OFC don't try backstabbing back
       | these kind of people, some 'folklorical' people are pretty much
       | clan/family based (even more than the Southern Italians) and they
       | will kick your ass back in the most unexpected, random and non-
       | spectacular way ever, pretty much the opposite of the Mexican
       | cartels where they love to do showoff and displays. No, the
       | Southern Iberians are something else, mixed along Atlantics and
       | Mediterranean people since millenia and they know all the tricks,
       | either from the Brits/Germanics to Levantine Semitic foes...
       | 
       | You won't expect it. You are like some Mossad random Levi,
       | roaming around, and you just met some nice middle aged woman on a
       | stereotyped familiar bar where the alleged ties to some clan must
       | be nearly zero, and the day after some crazy Islamic terrorist
       | wacko with ties to drug cartels will try to stab you some Sunday
       | in the morning and he might try to succeed with the dumbest and
       | cheapest way ever.
       | 
       | No, is not an exaggeration. We might not be Italy, but don't try
       | to mess up with some kind of people. My country is not Mafia-
       | bound, but criminal cartels, mafias and OFC some terror groups
       | from the Magreb (and these bound to the Middle East ones) have
       | deals with each other because of, you know, weapons and money.
       | And Marbella it's pretty much a hub.
        
         | kragen wrote:
         | This explains a lot about Argentina.
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | Half of Iberians can't stand the rascal (picaresca) tradition
           | from the other half. Specially the heavy industrialized
           | North.
           | 
           | We are not as divided as Italy, as Spain has powerhouses in
           | the South as Airbus and the like, but, yes, there's a
           | 'climatological gap' between the different 'Spains' across
           | the mountains.
           | 
           | Not Ethnics, but kinda like what would happen in Italy if the
           | North wasn't as developed (the North of Spain isn't bad but
           | you can't compare it against the Franco-German-Austrian-
           | Italian industrial hub) and the South had their Mafias shut
           | down in the 19th century and if they were more developed than
           | they are compared to the Southern Spain.
           | 
           | The South here isn't a shithole as Napoli and the like but
           | some Andalusian coastal places can be far more dangerous than
           | the Basque Country/Navarre in the 80's (terror attacks) for a
           | policeman.
           | 
           | OTOH, Belgium it's far closer to be a Narcostate than some
           | microrregions in Spain such as Algeciras in Cadiz (Andalusia)
           | were you can read about the Militarized Police fighting drug
           | boats almost as a daily chore.
           | 
           | On Argentina, except for a die hard Ghetto like the '3000
           | viviendas' and Canada Real, every Argentinian would love to
           | stay in Spain even at the worst neighbourhood at their town.
           | Iberia it's far more secure than Latin America by a huge
           | margin. The most dangerous issue on any bad town would be
           | either a pickpocket/non-violent rob of watching some low tier
           | drug dealers doing their stuff and maybe some very late night
           | rape issue over months if not years. Far less than anything
           | you would get in Buenos Aires.
           | 
           | Unless, as I said, you really want to mess up your like with
           | some sketchy people, the ones you would spot from meters
           | away, especially in remote/nearly hidden taverns/pubs where
           | drug dealing it's widely known. For example, if some pub it's
           | accesed by walking down some stairs into a basement, (where
           | you can't see anything from the outside without going down);
           | even if it looks good, clean, modern, maintained... run away.
        
             | kragen wrote:
             | > _On Argentina, except for a die hard Ghetto like the
             | '3000 viviendas' and Canada Real, every Argentinian would
             | love to stay in Spain even at the worst neighbourhood at
             | their town. Iberia it's far more secure than Latin America
             | by a huge margin._
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentio
             | n... lists Argentina at 4.31 murders per 100k population
             | per year, a bit lower than the US's 5.76, while Spain is
             | way down at 0.69, so I think that's sort of true. 6x is
             | sort of "a huge margin". I'm pretty sure there are
             | neighborhoods in Argentina that are lower than 0.69,
             | though, and neighborhoods in Spain that are over 4.31.
             | 
             | On the other hand, 4.31 is already low enough that I don't
             | know anybody who's gotten murdered, although when I
             | volunteered in the die-hard ghettos I met people whose
             | _children_ had been murdered before I met them. In https://
             | en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_mortality... we
             | can see that Argentina's crude death rate is 728 deaths per
             | 100k population per year, so 99.4% of deaths are from non-
             | murder causes. If you somehow acquired immunity to all
             | causes of deaths other than murder, and you lived in 02025
             | Argentina until someone murdered you (through some kind of
             | time-travel Groundhog Day thing, I guess) your life
             | expectancy would be 23000 years. Real-life people who get
             | heart disease and cancer don't really need to worry about
             | getting murdered in Argentina unless they start dating a
             | _machista_.
             | 
             | Consequently, murder is not a major reason that people
             | leave Argentina. (Contrast Honduras at 31.4 murders; Belize
             | with 27.8; South Africa with 45.5; Memphis, Tennessee, with
             | 48.0; or St. Louis, Missouri, with 87.8.)
             | 
             | No, the reason every Argentinian would love to stay in
             | Spain is that _Spain has an economy_.
        
       | coolThingsFirst wrote:
       | Another example of power resides where men believe it resides.
       | 
       | Americans are just very scared of Mossad. Tons of money goes into
       | Holywood to make them appear invincible to the world. Fun fact,
       | they aren't.
       | 
       | Intelligence agencies have great capabilities no doubt they get
       | billions of $$$ and have utter immunity to do whatever they want
       | in the name of national security. Why is only Mossad scary? I'd
       | be more scared of the CIA and KGB than of Mossad.
       | 
       | US has never been in existential threat like Israel has been, if
       | it were I wouldn't want to stand in their way.
        
         | wk_end wrote:
         | > Americans are just very scared of Mossad. Tons of money goes
         | into Holywood to make them appear invincible to the world.
         | 
         | I don't believe I've _ever_ seen Mossad depicted in a Hollywood
         | movie? I guess there was Munich. Are there specific movies /TV
         | shows that you're thinking of?
         | 
         | Americans, by and large, don't even think about Mossad.
         | Certainly not the way they're aware of the CIA and KGB - which
         | no one should be scared of at the moment since it hasn't
         | existed since 1991, though obviously there are modern
         | successors.
        
           | cool_man_bob wrote:
           | > Are there specific movies/TV shows that you're thinking of?
           | 
           | Not GP, but NCIS is the big one offhand. Of course that show
           | has simply gotten more and more ridiculous on general over
           | the years
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | Despite his somewhat annoying style, that article has many good
       | points about the aloofness of security researchers. However, I
       | will disagree on two points which the article contains:
       | 
       | 1. Tor is (rightly) used by anyone who has a good reason for
       | remaining anonymous. (See [REALNAMES] for who this can be.)
       | Anyone trying to smear Tor as only used by drug dealers and other
       | unsavory types are themselves suspect of having an agenda of
       | discouraging Tor use for anyone lest they be suspected. This can
       | only lead to an installation of Tor being viewed as a suspicious
       | thing in itself; who would want that?
       | 
       | 2. His threat model of Mossad or not-Mossad leaves out one
       | important actor, which we can call the NSA. They, and others like
       | them, unlike Mossad, are not after you personally in that they
       | don't want to _do_ anything to you. Not immediately. Not now.
       | They simply want to get to know you better. They are gathering
       | information. All the information. What you do, what you buy, how
       | you vote, what you think. And they want to do this to _everybody,
       | all the time_. This might or not bite you in the future. He seems
       | to imply that since nothing immediately bad is happening by using
       | slightly bad security, then it's OK and we shouldn't worry about
       | it, since Mossad is not after us. I think that we should have a
       | slightly longer view of what allowing NSA (et al.) to know
       | everything about everybody would mean, and who NSA could some day
       | give this information to, and what _those_ people could do with
       | the information. You have to think a few steps ahead to realize
       | the danger.
       | 
       | [REALNAMES] _Who is harmed by a "Real Names" policy?_
       | <https://geekfeminism.fandom.com/wiki/Who_is_harmed_by_a_%22R...>
       | 
       | (Repost of <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23572778>)
        
         | reedf1 wrote:
         | honestly I find any idiosyncratic style refreshing in AI slop
         | world
        
       | bitbasher wrote:
       | My favorite talk by Mickens (https://vimeo.com/95066828), also
       | talks about Mossad.
        
       | singular_atomic wrote:
       | When we need him the most (a world overrun in llms and AI slop)
       | it seems like he's vanished...
        
       | tomhow wrote:
       | Previously:
       | 
       |  _This World of Ours (2014) [pdf]_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27915173 - July 2021 (6
       | comments)
        
       | some_random wrote:
       | Where does this deification of Mossad come from anyways? They've
       | done a lot more than western intel agencies post cold war but
       | that's absolutely come with failures just like every other intel
       | agency in existence.
        
       | pinebox wrote:
       | This all seemed very clever until I read the bio and learned that
       | the author works for Microsoft -- the _last_ company that has
       | _any_ business being flip about security. Bro needs to STFU and
       | get on with the security drudgery, because his customer 's
       | opposition very definitely _is_ the Mossad.
        
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