[HN Gopher] Rivian's TM-B electric bike
___________________________________________________________________
Rivian's TM-B electric bike
Author : hasheddan
Score : 99 points
Date : 2025-10-22 18:00 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| I walked past a near identical delivery quad to their TM-Q not an
| hour ago.
| sampton wrote:
| The kid carrier looks dangerously top heavy.
| ourguile wrote:
| Very interesting, really liking the swappable components in the
| quad. I'm a big cyclist but have been looking for something new
| to take around for commuting that isn't a scooter.
|
| Great to see more manufacturers getting in on micromobility
| options.
| iotsloppyo wrote:
| Reeks of Juicero.
|
| NFS lock and unlock. GPS locator. Capacitance touchscreen
| controls. Hydraulic disc brakes.
|
| Companion helmet with wirelessly connected brake lights, and
| noise cancelling(?!) speakers.
|
| Why do we need to learn the same lessons over and over again?
| karlgkk wrote:
| What? lol
|
| The issue with juicero is that their hardware design was
| needlessly and insanely over complicated, like magnitudes past
| anything I'm seeing here - and they DRMd something that didn't
| need to be DRMd (juice)
|
| For this bike, those are features people regularly want in
| e-bikes and cost very little to add - the bike already needs a
| capable cpu for battery management and acceleration curve
| controlling.
|
| These are features that people differentiate these pseudo
| motorcycles on. "We" have learned the lesson.
|
| The helmet is very juicero tho
| interstice wrote:
| I wouldn't lump disk brakes in with the rest of those, maybe
| the hydraulic part is overkill though.
| mortenjorck wrote:
| The $999 Lectric XP4 has hydraulic disc brakes. While
| uncommon at that price point, it's not unusual to see them on
| $1500-2k e-bikes.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| My ebike has hydraulic disk brakes and a CVT, e bikes have
| moved forward from the bike-shaped-object era
| bluescrn wrote:
| They've moved on from the 'can maintain/repair it with
| basic tools' era. Soon they'll be dependent on the cloud
| and subscription services...
|
| (Kind of amazed that wireless derailleurs became a thing.
| Replacing a simple mechanical device with complex tech
| requiring two batteries)
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| Enviolo CVT? I'm curious about how you like it. I rented
| a Blue Bike in Boston with a CVT and loved it.
| slaw wrote:
| I bought complete hydraulic disc brake set for $40 on Ali
| Express. Mechanical brakes cannot be much cheaper.
| fiatpandas wrote:
| Hydraulic disc brakes aren't really overkill on an e-bike,
| it's a safety thing. You really don't want to skimp out on
| stopping power when your heavy bike has a powerful motor.
| stronglikedan wrote:
| > maybe the hydraulic part is overkill though
|
| Not for an e-bike it isn't. In fact, I'd say if you're not
| rocking hydraulic brakes on an e-bike, you're asking for a
| bad time. I know that most lower end e-bikes don't come with
| them standard, but to me, it's a necessary and immediate
| upgrade for safety.
| peanut-walrus wrote:
| Non-hydraulic discs suck. You get better braking power out of
| decent rim brakes.
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| I respectfully disagree. I've owned and ridden several
| ebikes with mechanical disc brakes. When they're properly
| adjusted they have just as much stopping power as
| hydraulics.
| toss1 wrote:
| Hydraulic disc brakes are not overkill with a bike of that
| mass [0] and power. Disc brakes are very common mountain
| bikes or any type where there is a lot of braking as
| caliper/rim brakes can overheat and pop the tires, so this
| unit should _definitely_ have disc brakes. Hydraulic is
| better than cable /mechanical as hydraulic can generate more
| braking power, have better feel, and stay in better
| adjustment. The only downside vs cable+disc is cable is more
| repairable in the field.
|
| [0] (overall specs indicate a lot of weight, Rivian are not
| proud enough of any lightweighting to even print the weight,
| and their autos are also _very_ heavy, indicating a lack of
| lightweight engineering discipline in that shop which may
| carry over to their other mobility solutions)
| vel0city wrote:
| Having hydraulic disc brakes on a bicycle like this isn't
| something odd. Tons of regular bicycles have them these days.
|
| The only kind of weird thing I see here is the idea the pedals
| aren't actually directly connected to the drive train, they
| just turn a generator.
| thrill wrote:
| That's going to separate force-applied from force-required
| while riding - a much more comfortable pedal action.
| bluGill wrote:
| That is what gears are for. The only time gears fail is
| when you want to pedal harder without going faster - charge
| the battery. Downhill with a tailwind the cautious can
| reach this situation, but most just go faster.
|
| gears with a chain is more energy efficient.
| dsr_ wrote:
| Hydraulic brakes are great. I have them on two bikes and would
| certainly buy them again.
|
| The bike cost nowhere near $4500 and certainly doesn't have any
| "smart" integration other than a holder for my phone, which I
| added myself for $13.
| pchew wrote:
| There's literally thousands of e-bikes with touch screens and
| it would be unsafe for a bike of this weight to have anything
| other than hydraulic disc brakes, which are the standard for
| just about anything that isn't a road bike these days. Locator
| also pretty common even on $1,000 ebikes.
|
| But yes, other stuff seems to be features for the sake of
| features.
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| E-bikes with properly adjusted mechanical disc brakes are
| perfectly safe, and mechanical brakes are easy to adjust
| yourself without the need to take them to a bike shop. It's
| the discs that are important -- not whether they are
| mechanical or hydraulic.
| hnav wrote:
| conversely hydraulics don't need adjustment
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| ...except when they do. If you get a leak or an air
| bubble for example and have to flush the system, you'll
| need a trip to the bike shop.
| hnav wrote:
| If you put miles on your bike and ride hills, you'll
| spend way more time fiddling with an allen/torx on the
| inboard pad or the adjustment barrel on the cable as your
| pads wear. The bleeding procedure for hydraulics is for
| sure messier, but still very doable in 5 minutes. When
| you do have air in the system, pumping the lever a bit
| gives you back some braking function.
| kulahan wrote:
| A touchscreen on a primarily-outdoor device makes no sense to
| me. It's just a single point of failure for fanciness.
| Transit safety should be taken more seriously, with controls
| you can operate by feel, rather than vision. It's not
| important if lots and lots of companies include this single
| point of failure.
|
| Edit: also, don't capacitive screens kinda suck if they get a
| little wet? like what, you just can't use the screen controls
| while it's raining without risking unlocking your seat 40,000
| times in a half second due to a stray raindrop sitting on the
| screen? Feels like resistive would _explicitly_ be superior
| here. You probably don 't need huge accuracy for what should
| ideally be a spacious display anyways.
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| There's nothing wrong with hydraulic disc brakes on an e-bike,
| except that hydraulic brakes are hard to maintain yourself
| without special tools. All e-bikes need disc brakes, period.
| Any e-bike (or any merely heavy bike) is unsafe without disc
| brakes. Whether those brakes are mechanical or hydraulic
| doesn't matter nearly as much as the fact that they use discs.
| Jblx2 wrote:
| What does "NFS" stand for in this context?
|
| https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/NFS
| kelnos wrote:
| I think they meant NFC (as in Near Field Communication).
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| A typo for NFC seems likely.
| tekacs wrote:
| They mean NFC, I think.
| iotsloppyo wrote:
| Yup, typo and unable to edit the comment now.
|
| NFC, Near Field Communication.
| wolrah wrote:
| I'm with you on the automatic lock/unlock and full-touch
| controls, I don't like either of those design choices in cars
| and I don't want them in a bike either.
|
| That said a GPS locator is great on an e-bike. They're high
| value theft targets, anything that makes them harder to steal,
| easier to track, or otherwise reduces the appeal of stealing
| one is a good thing.
|
| Hydraulic disc brakes are a great thing even on non-electronic
| bikes. I won't buy another bike without them. My hardtail
| mountain bike, gravel bike, and e-cruiser are all hydraulic
| discs.
| dilyevsky wrote:
| ah yes hydraulic disk brakes on like 80lbs bike is _exactly_
| like juicero
| cols wrote:
| Hydraulic disc brakes are table stakes for a mountain or gravel
| bike nowadays. Dual or preferably quad piston calipers on a big
| rotor make a significant difference when it comes to stopping
| power.
| soco wrote:
| Bear with me I don't know much about bikes but I have this honest
| question: why does it need a chain, and won't place the engine
| (or whatever gear box it has) directly on the wheel?
| SirFatty wrote:
| So it will appear as a bicycle and be allowed on paths in parks
| (is what I'm guessing).
| Stedag wrote:
| It's a backup so that if you do lose power, you can still
| pedal home. Major pain to pedal an 80 lb fixed gear bike, but
| This is standard on ebikes and doesn't contribute much weight
| or cost in itself.
| STKFLT wrote:
| The biggest reason is minimizing unsprung mass, the performance
| of the rear suspension would be much worse with a hub motor.
| Groxx wrote:
| does that actually matter much on anything except dirt-bike
| tracks, or trying to go 40mph on a horrifically bumpy track?
| minus some comfort advantage, of course.
|
| like technically, sure, it's obviously true. but for
| _performance_ it only really matters when you would get air
| time with higher mass, and the lower mass stays in contact
| more. commuter e-biking generally doesn 't get anywhere near
| those speeds or bump-sizes. (trail biking: sure! I 100%
| believe it's a sizable consideration there)
| STKFLT wrote:
| I've never ridden a full suspension with a hub motor so I
| can't say, but my guess is that yes, it would make a pretty
| big difference with an aggressive rider or poor quality
| streets. It's not just keeping contact that matters, its
| the consistency and quality of contact, especially with a
| super torquey motor ready to jump at a twitch of your
| thumb. Its of course not necessary for commuter biking, but
| neither is basically anything on this premium product aside
| from the wheels and pedals.
|
| Also to note, they are very much marketing it as a trail
| bike in addition to a commuter so it's not surprising they
| would spend a bit to optimize for ride quality and
| traction.
| jfim wrote:
| It's not clear if their design allows for it from the details
| in the article, but you'd want a chain in case you run out of
| battery so you can pedal manually.
| bullfightonmars wrote:
| Putting the motor into the wheel makes for an excellent riding
| experience, I have a Bionx rear wheel (out of business) that is
| connected to the chain ring and pedals in the traditional way.
| The wheel detects torque from pedaling and applies it's own
| torque to drive the wheel. It can be used with and without
| power and feels almost seamless and is silent.
|
| Unfortunately it seems to be difficult to engineer and build
| these wheel motors for reliability and longevity. They
| significanly increase the unsprung mass of the wheel which
| leads to increased wear on the hub components.
| roadside_picnic wrote:
| Dirt bikes and many motorcycles _also_ have chains, this allows
| you to change gears to adjust torque (alternatives include
| shaft and belt drives).
|
| E-bikes can have the motors on the wheel (hub-drive) or on the
| pedal (mid-drive). This choice is largely related to how much
| you want your e-bike to really be a scooter or really be
| providing pedal assist. As a consequence hub-drive e-bikes
| typically have a throttle while mid-drive do not.
|
| A good mid-drive e-bike really makes it feel like you are a
| super human cyclist rather than riding a scooter. It leads to a
| much smoother riding experience if your aim is to still be
| essentially bicycling but you'd like to get moving faster and
| not break a sweet even on the most extreme hills.
| pqtyw wrote:
| > A good mid-drive e-bike really makes it feel like you are a
| super human cyclist
|
| Of course. But the pedals on this thing aren't even connected
| to the drivetrain. So what is the benefit in this specific
| case?
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| Completely agree. They should probably just remove the
| pedals and generator entirely and save that weight. But
| then legally it becomes a scooter and probably would
| require a license and be more limited as to where it could
| go.
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| I have a couple of mid-drive e-bikes (Bafang motors) with
| throttles. Throttled mid-drives let you get the best of both
| worlds: Great pedal assist combined with the ability to just
| be a scooter when you get tired. And I agree that mid-drive
| is the way to go if you want to ride on hills. If you commute
| in San Francisco for example, a hub drive e-bike will not
| help you much but a mid-drive will change your life.
| jlhawn wrote:
| mid-drive e-bikes like this one are generally more expensive
| also but more efficient than rear hub motor systems. They also
| provide better overall weight distribution.
| jlhawn wrote:
| a _full suspension_ e-bike, 500+Wh battery, with a belt drive for
| $4,500 is honestly a really good deal. There is a shortage of
| options when it comes to full-suspension bikes that are good for
| commutes. Compare this to any e-bike with the Bosch e-bike
| system. The big risk here for consumers if whether they can match
| the service, support, and reliability that Bosch has. There
| appears to be a class-2 e-bike option which is something that
| significantly differentiates it from bikes with the Bosch system.
| givemeethekeys wrote:
| "Honestly" does not make it a "really good" deal.
|
| It's an e-bike. The competition is stiff, better looking, and
| better priced.
|
| If they're lucky, this will appeal to university professors and
| over achieving parents of unsuspecting kids who want a cool
| bike but got an expensive dorky one instead.
| jlhawn wrote:
| The e-bike market has multiple tiers/segments. This is not
| priced to compete with brands like Rad Power Bikes, Lectric,
| or Aventon. It's likely going to compete with brands like
| Tern, Benno, Gazelle, Trek, etc.
|
| edit: ask yourself why the median new car in the US sells for
| over $50k when you can easily find cars for less than half
| that price.
| qwytw wrote:
| I find it hard to imagine what the overlap between this and
| e.g. ebikes from Trek, though. Besides the price of
| course... It's an entirely different product.
| qwytw wrote:
| I really don't get what the point of the pedals on a thing like
| this, though. I guess mainly to satisfy some sort of
| regulations which separate bikes and motorcycle like vehicles?
| Considering that they aren't even connected to the
| drivetrain...
| jlhawn wrote:
| In the U.S., there are 3 classes of e-bike: Class 1: pedal-
| assist only up to 20mph (helmets optional for adults) Class
| 2: same as Class 1 but with optional throttle to 20mph Class
| 3: pedal-assist only up to 28mph (helmets required, adults
| only)
|
| There's also a maximum power rating of 750 watts for all of
| these. I'm not sure where the "pedal by wire" feature is from
| a regulatory perspective, but to me this fits into either
| class 2 or 3 depending on what option you get.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| My state doesn't even require helmets for motorcyclists. I
| am guessing any regulations on e-bikes date back to the
| days when 2-stroke "moped" bikes were briefly popular.
| sgarman wrote:
| Based on the video and rivian history I think they wanted to
| redesign from the ground up a bike to match the packaging
| success they had at rivian and companies like lucid vs how
| legacy automakers approached it. The problem is the current
| laws about bikes and ebikes limited them and they had to make
| many tradeoffs which is what we are looking at. I guess we
| will find it if it was worth it to go ground up vs more off
| the shelf. As a rivian owner I'm concerned about repair-
| ability and maintenance.
| hoherd wrote:
| Some people actually do like to double up a bit of exercise
| with their commute.
| antinomicus wrote:
| The article clearly states it's class 3.
| jlhawn wrote:
| From the article:
|
| > It also features a throttle good for 20mph where
| regulations allow.
|
| That must mean they have a class 2 option.
| thrill wrote:
| The way I read it is if you use throttle-only you can reach
| 20 mph, but then if adding pedal-power you reach 28 mph.
| The pedal is probably not generating sufficient force to
| add 8 mph, but it's telling the control system to do that.
| jlhawn wrote:
| class 2 and class 3 are mutually exclusive. You cannot
| legally have an e-bike that supports throttle up to 20mph
| that can also continue to e-assist if you pedal up to
| 28mph. While it's technically possible in software to
| switch between these modes, consumers aren't supposed to
| be able to do this on their own.
| sethherr wrote:
| You have an incorrect definition of Class 3.
|
| Class 3 allows pedal assist up to 28 and throttle to 20
|
| https://thecyclistchoice.com/resources/electric-bike-
| classes...
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| I did it on my e bike...all I did was lie to the computer
| about how big my wheels were, which was a directly
| accessible in the settings menu
| bb88 wrote:
| You can usually limit the bike to go less than 20mph in
| those cases.
|
| It would be nice to have the GPS automatically set the
| pedal assist max speed when riding on shared paths with
| pedestrians and people.
|
| I have also seen road bikers on those same shared paths
| pedal faster than 20mph.
| kibwen wrote:
| I was in the market for a commuter recently and my runner-up
| was this bike from Bulls (German brand trying to break into the
| US market) with full suspension, a Bosch motor, and coming in
| at a staggeringly light 58 lbs (battery included) for $3300.
| Extremely tempting, if I hadn't managed to snag a heavily-
| discounted Aventon Level 2 instead.
| https://bullsbikesusa.com/products/iconic-evo-tr-1-750
| jlhawn wrote:
| that's a nice bike! bummer that the rear rack isn't co-
| sprung.
| hnav wrote:
| 120mm seems like an absurd amount of travel for ostensibly
| what is a city bike
| CyberDildonics wrote:
| A really good deal based on what? You can buy bikes with double
| the battery off amazon for a quarter of the price. What are you
| comparing this to?
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Hey Dean Kamen,
|
| See how it just becomes a bicycle when it's discharged or broken?
| This is much, much closer to what we expected from the Segway.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| Look again. This is pedal by wire.
|
| If it is broken the pedals will just spin because there is no
| mechanical link between the pedals and the parts that make the
| vehicle move.
| JanSolo wrote:
| Great! Another bunch of micromobility products that nobody asked
| for. And the price! I can buy 6 very decent Chinese ebikes of
| various formats for the $4500 this thing will cost. I'm sure it
| will be more advanced and nicely designed, but it's just way too
| expensive. Bicycles are a mass-market item. Price is the primary
| decider. If you want to be successful, you have to be cheaper
| than the competition. Who is this for?
| nharada wrote:
| > Price is the primary decider
|
| That's not even true for normal bicycles. Serious cyclists can
| spend massive amounts of cash on their rides.
|
| Aside from that, if you're using this as a vehicle you want
| more than just the cheapest thing out there. Reliability and
| serviceability are important when not having the bike means you
| can't get to work or your kid's school.
| jeffbee wrote:
| By massive amounts, of course you meant "dramatically less
| than any car", right?
|
| Most serious bicyclists I know, some with wonderful bikes,
| still spent less on their bikes than the typical American
| spends getting the air conditioned seats option in their
| F-150.
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| > Reliability and serviceability are important when not
| having the bike means you can't get to work or your kid's
| school.
|
| True, but this bike is completely non-standard so sort of
| blows that. There isn't even a direct connection between the
| pedals and the wheels. If the electrical bits stop responding
| you don't even have a bike, you have a really awkward
| velocipede. Every other e-bike that I have ridden or seen is
| still a bike when there is no power.
| jauntywundrkind wrote:
| The battery system here sounds so sweet. Swappable, with a
| respectable 0.5kWh and then an Extended Range 0.8kWh is
| excellent.
|
| Usb-c chargeable at 240W is divinely sweet. Maybe maybe some day
| dual USB would be nice (for the ER especially) but this is quite
| respectable. And by not trying to super fast charge the battery
| will live longer anyhow.
|
| Being removable is another nice win, if not uncommon. I don't
| know which other batteries provide USB power even without the
| bike, which again is such a great nice to have: take the bike to
| a park then bring with an charge some phones or what-not.
|
| In the future I really hope we see some battery alliances, making
| some form factors, and centralizing on usb-c. As would be good
| common sense. The overlap between a bike battery and standalone
| Delta or Ecoflow battery power station is _huge_ , and Rivian
| here seems a little further along than most at hybridizing &
| generalizing a battery system: obvious win to anyone paying
| attention!
|
| The modularity could be a major win too. I'd love to see a an
| e-bike maker go down the Ford Bronco path & add a bunch of
| attachments points and replaceable/modular pieces to the design,
| _and release all the specs_ for free use! Even if it only is
| Rivian and some partners doing this here, _this is the way_ , it
| feels like:
|
| > _The top frame of the TM-B is modular by design, so the bike
| can be transformed without tools into a cargo hauler, kid
| carrier, or cruiser with a bench seat._
|
| Cargo haulers easily climb to the 6000$ ranges. And the _massive_
| 180NM motor here will not bat an eye!
|
| One thing I'd love to see: a stationary bike mode. Bring it
| inside for the winter & do spin class, charging up the battery.
| The full series hybrid, no mechanical linkage, doesnt deel super
| super practical to be honest but it's _interesting!_
|
| A lot of nice basic things that make sense. Like no longer
| needing special cherging equipment for reasonably good capacity
| chwrging (albeit most usb-c chargers will only be doing 100w for
| a while now, but that seems fine).
| hnav wrote:
| bikes are already highly "modular" in that outside of ebike
| motor systems you can swap most parts. Bikes like the Rivian in
| the article would only work if ruggedized and sold to fleets.
| As a consumer you'd just get something from Specialized at this
| price point since it won't be worthless in 2 years time.
| jauntywundrkind wrote:
| Agreed that bikes do often exhibit some level of modularity.
| But attaching a front or back cargo rack or kid carrier gets
| pretty finicky pretty quick: most e-bikers tend to just buy
| the (often quite expensive) 1st party gear, because it'll
| actually fit right.
|
| This bike seems to have only a single major modular system,
| but it comprises such a massive part of the bike: there's a
| big stem-post that attaches to the drive unit. Being able to
| swap that stem-post out for other things allows for really
| big changes, imo. You could build some really cool really
| neat different top-sides atop this bike, with really weird
| cargo or kid shapes.
|
| I would love to see smaller level modularity too. I'm really
| impressed by the Bronco, and how they've clearly worked very
| hard to make it a "car as a platform", opening up as much
| space as they can for aftermarket parts & 3d printing people
| to build everything from cup-holders/interior fixing to body-
| panels (dunno the best link for this, but for ex:
| https://thebronconation.com/more-bronco-modularity-fender-
| fl...). I see Rivian / Also tapping that energy here in a way
| that moves far beyond what bikes today offer.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Everyone I know used a Yepp/Thule child seat for their bike
| and I never heard a peep about "finicky".
| dmitrygr wrote:
| Only 28mph max speed, and the firmware might actually be properly
| protected from this bug being easily fixed. I'll stick to my
| Chinese scooters run by code-unlocked STM32F103 clones i can
| easily cure of such idiocy.
| dreamcompiler wrote:
| 808Wh battery and 100 miles of range. These two numbers track
| with each other and are roughly believable.
|
| OTOH, with a battery this big, a generator powered by the pedals,
| and regen braking this thing has to be heavy. I'd expect it to
| weigh at least 80 lbs. More likely 100. The fact that their
| "specs" say nothing about weight suggests they're embarrassed
| about the weight.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Regen braking is how you can tell this was designed by a moron.
| The energy balance simply does not favor regenerative braking
| on a bicycle, especially a bicycle that flippantly ignores
| aerodynamics like this one does. A bicyclist loses roughly all
| of their energy to air resistance. It's not a truck. There is
| not substantial potential energy to be recaptured going down
| hills.
| big_toast wrote:
| Not a big cyclist but is that still true for lower speed city
| riding (typical to flat european cycling prone countries),
| hillier SF, or mountain biking?
|
| It seems obviously true to typical racing or distance
| scenarios. And i notice the wind even at lower speeds on
| e-bikes in SF.
|
| But between their quad scenario and what I imagine as the
| urban car replacement scenario it doesn't seem as obvious.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Yes, it is true at all speed and under all conditions. The
| system simply does not have the mass that would give it a
| great deal of gravitational potential energy, and it
| reaches a power equilibrium with the air at low speeds.
| Example:
|
| 100kg rider at 15 kph = .24W-h kinetic energy. At this
| speed there is probably roughly 11N of air and rolling
| resistance, so the steady state power is about 3W-h per km.
| If you go 1km between stops, or more, the amount you can
| expect to gain by regeneration is extremely small. It could
| perhaps extend your range by 5%, generously.
| emil-lp wrote:
| Let's say 130kg (80kg driver + 50kg bike) going 30km/h
| (e-bike limit) is ~1.25Wh.
| big_toast wrote:
| Does that assume no pedaling though? In my experience the
| pain of starts and stops dominates the joy of steady
| state pedaling. Presumably the 3Wh/km is free/"exercise"
| or some portion. Whereas the .24Wh (re-gainable w/ some
| loss) is all sweat and pain imo.
|
| If I'm understanding the math, maybe that multiplies the
| range extension by your tolerance for pedaling?
| edaemon wrote:
| What do you mean? The regenerative braking only kicks in when
| you engage the brake lever. It's not going to add much range
| but it's free, I don't see any downside to including
| regenerative braking.
| jeffbee wrote:
| It isn't free. How could it be free? It requires at least
| an electronic control system and a pressure sensor.
| LoganDark wrote:
| It was already going to have some sensor for, say, the
| brake light.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| Are there popular e-bikes without electronic motor
| control?
| edaemon wrote:
| It's the same control system that operates the motor. The
| motor is just being used as a generator.
|
| I'm not sure which pressure sensor you mean, like in the
| brake lever? E-bikes with hydraulic brakes already have
| sensors for power cutoff (and in this case for brake
| lights).
| linkjuice4all wrote:
| You're going to have a difficult time pulling a lot of
| energy out of the back wheel as you're slowing down. The
| more you decelerate the less weight you've got on your back
| wheel. Eventually you reach the maximum energy transfer
| from back wheel contact patch into the motor and lock up
| the back wheel, and even then you may not have considerably
| slowed the bike.
|
| Regen on the front wheel would be most effective - but then
| you've got two motors or a less-than-ideal front motor that
| adds unsprung weight and has similar traction issues during
| acceleration as the front unloads.
|
| It's a shame - I think a lot of people want ebikes to work,
| but they're not as convenient as a pedal bike (especially
| not in small apartments) and usually they're too heavy to
| really use in blended pedaling/e-assist mode.
| CorrectHorseBat wrote:
| My e-bike has regen braking and it's definitely noticable,
| but I don't know how much it helps
| mvkel wrote:
| Boosted Boards have regen, and in typical use, it extends
| range by about 10%. It was an incredibly intuitive system;
| instead of brakes, you regen your way to a stop.
|
| I don't see how this would be any different. Or, it's
| certainly not "moronic"
| Spunkie wrote:
| I find regen exciting for it's ability to slow down my brake
| pads getting shredded every month. The fact that I get some
| energy back from it is mostly a bonus.
| Izikiel43 wrote:
| > The energy balance simply does not favor regenerative
| braking on a bicycle
|
| Here in Seattle with all the hills it might
| dylan604 wrote:
| My eBike is close to 90lbs, but it is a large cargo bike touted
| as a "small car replacement". It is close to a tandem bike in
| size with a steel frame. I'm so used to it now, but I live in a
| house and never need to carry it up stairs. It does mean that I
| need an expensive bike rack to support that weight.
| CorrectHorseBat wrote:
| My Stromer ST3 weights about 30kg, has an 1kWh battery but
| doesn't come anywhere close to even 100km range at full speed.
|
| I suspect pedal-by-wire will only be slightly heavier since it
| doesn't need gears, but the range will probably be even worse.
| CyberDildonics wrote:
| 800 wh and 100 miles? There is no way anyone gets that.
|
| 800 watt hours for $4,500 is absurd too.
| FpUser wrote:
| >"808Wh battery and 100 miles of range. These two numbers track
| with each other and are roughly believable."
|
| Absolutely not. Unless you have baby in a saddle and going
| 10mph
| Tiktaalik wrote:
| > Also also unveiled its Alpha Wave helmet.... It also features
| integrated lights and a four-speaker, wind-shielded internal
| audio system with two noise-canceling mics. The helmet integrates
| with the TM-B's console, where music, calls, and podcasts can be
| controlled on the bike.
|
| In an ideal world these would be great features to have, but in
| the real world, where so many places have a near complete absence
| of safe cycling infrastructure and bicycles are casually mixed in
| with giant trucks it's a bit of a scary notion to reduce your
| situational awareness with a great sound system and the
| distraction of doing your morning zoom standup while cycling to
| work (I've done this before lol, tho most of my commute is in
| separated bike lanes...).
|
| This points to the headwinds to adoption and success of the Also,
| which is that so many cities are ambivalent and uninterested if
| not outright ideologically opposed to building safe all ages and
| abilities bike lanes. That sort of safe infrastructure is
| critical to the success of a product like this. It's really
| unfortunate.
| bb88 wrote:
| I've seen a lot of people use noise cancelling ear buds on
| roads using pedal bikes, so I don't see how this is any
| different really.
| jakedata wrote:
| I just added strips of fake fur to the straps my boring old
| helmet to diffuse the wind noise the same way a "dead cat"
| cover on a microphone does. They look a bit like muttonchops
| which is a bonus as far as I am concerned. I use wraparound
| bone conduction headphones that don't block my ears. I would
| be afraid of losing an expensive earbud.
| calmbonsai wrote:
| I'm liking aspects of the design, but I'm concerned about weight
| and overengineering of simple stuff like the seatpost bracket.
|
| Also, the "TM-B Reservation Token" smacks of egregious
| marketeering.
|
| Still, this looks like a solid ebike.
| cypherpunks01 wrote:
| Most visibly interesting part to me is the frame design without a
| rear triangle (no seatstay) like a motorcycle or dirtbike.
|
| Materials must be real strong to withstand all the torque forces
| without a rear triangle, right? Any other e-bikes like this?
| tomekb wrote:
| I ride a class-3 Tern cargo bike with 400Wh battery and this
| range is very optimistic, especially since this is pedal-by-wire.
| Also what happens when the battery runs out, because you can just
| ride without assist on any Bosch e-bike.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| Game over with a dead battery, I would think, though I suppose
| it's possible that the generator you're pedaling is enough for
| very slow movement without the battery boost...
| bb88 wrote:
| Despite the complaints in this thread there is already a market
| for $4k ebikes. And people are buying them. The bike competes
| with a bunch of e-bikes in that price range, Evelo Omega, Bosch,
| etc. So they're hardly a first mover. They are optimizing that
| market.
| hnav wrote:
| yeah but what's the point? At this price point alibaba monsters
| are far more powerful and real bicycles far more bicycle-like.
| These will sell a 10-20k units and fade into obscurity like Van
| Moofs and other disruptive bicycles before them.
| bb88 wrote:
| People typically don't buy big ticket goods from a company
| named "YACCEEZY" like you might see on Amazon or Aliexpress
| these days.
|
| It's worth noting that Hyundai had a similar issue when it
| entered the US market. It was an uphill battle to market
| itself to convince people to spend thousands of dollars of
| money on a no-name car brand.
| yodon wrote:
| I have a 750W e-bike (which actually means 750W peak, 500W
| sustained).
|
| There are hills near my house that my bike can not make it up
| without significant pedal assist.
|
| If the motor and power electronics on this e-bike can only handle
| 750W peak, 500W sustained, as is common and I think is possibly
| even legislated in parts of the U.S., this bike will not be able
| to make it up serious hills.
|
| With a normal e-bike, your pedaling is additive to the motor.
| That is not the case with this design.
| derekp7 wrote:
| If the motor is geared it could make a difference. For
| comparison, most people put out about 100 watts with their
| legs, but need to downshift to go up hills. This looks like a
| mid drive unit, which should be capable of varied gearing.
| bb88 wrote:
| I was looking for where the gearing was and it doesn't appear
| to be in the wheels. It looks like it's in the hub.
|
| I have a bike with an automatic transmission and it handles
| steep hills just fine.
|
| But generally speaking, I would expect the bike at this price
| point to have an automatic transmission.
| masterj wrote:
| Given it can output 180Nm I expect this thing can get up
| whatever hill you point it at
| sxzygz wrote:
| This new e-bike news drops just as Cory Ellison arrives at his
| mom's in a Rivian. Great job marketing dept!
| throw7 wrote:
| "Drive by Wire"? This is not even anywhere near a "bike". At
| least you could argue "e-bikes" could still be pedaled without
| the battery. It's not that anybody would want to or even could,
| but an argument could be made.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| What I want ... not an E-bike, but an E-version of the BMW C1
|
| Critical features: 1. moderate weather protection 2. vastly
| improved crash protection 3. top speed above 50mph 4. luggage
| capacity of a small flatbed trailer
|
| I acknowledge the utility of e-bikes for many; for me, I prefer
| my non-e bike when I want to ride my bike, but would love an
| e-motorycle as an alternative to 80% of my car trips.
|
| https://www.theautopian.com/bmws-first-scooter-had-a-ridicul...
| a_ba wrote:
| You're in luck BMW recently presented their vision CE.
|
| https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/experience/stories/urban-m...
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| Sadly, no weather protection and apparently almost zero
| luggage capacity. But it's a very tiny step in roughly the
| right direction ...
| dylan604 wrote:
| oh, those concept shots are hysterical. the one with the pink
| bike and the woman with 3 dogs kills, but the dj setup is
| where I said "too far" and closed the tab
| akazantsev wrote:
| > the dj setup is where I said "too far" and closed the tab
|
| Also, it's AI-generated. Zoom in on the right-most guy in
| the image. Garbage in, garbage out. Embarrassing garbage
| quality for an official site.
| jakedata wrote:
| $4500 is ten or more of my homebrew 750 watt electric mountain
| bike originally built in 2004. I just repowered with LiFePO4
| after 10 years in storage and the new batteries really pull. It
| has a front hub motor with a throttle control limited to 20 mph.
| My commute is 10 miles, 6 on a dedicated bike path. Life is good.
| wigglewoggle wrote:
| What kind of capacity from your LFP battery? Is it diy built? I
| did one in the spring 16S with 25Ah cells and it's been amazing
| since. Only problem is it's a bit too big to fit anywhere I'd
| like it to. I have to mount it on a rear rack
| jakedata wrote:
| I am using 3x 12v 185wh batteries in series. Realistically I
| can count on around 500wh. They are only 3 lbs each and fit
| neatly within the frame of the mtb. I don't like having them
| up on the rear rack, they tend to make the tail of the bike
| wag a bit compared to low and centered.
|
| https://old.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/1o0qthk/dynagirl_ri.
| ..
|
| I just 3d printed protective covers for them last week when
| marketing turned their back on the new Bambu printer.
| wigglewoggle wrote:
| Nice
|
| I have a big commute and in the (Canadian) winter my old
| 750Wh was sometimes not up to the task. So I went wildly
| over the top and built a huge cap battery. I never need to
| worry now
| jakedata wrote:
| I don't plan to bike commute in the winter, it is too
| dark AM and PM. Have you tested your LiFePO4 batteries in
| low temperatures?
| trvz wrote:
| My local bicycle dealer has models in the window up to 15k$.
| There's a market for such priced products.
| jakedata wrote:
| Oh, clearly. But for that money I'd buy a really nice BMW i3
| REX. Obviously not an option for everyone.
| plantwallshoe wrote:
| Those are high performance mountain bikes with carbon fiber
| frames, top of the line components, carbon wheels. This is an
| aluminum city commuter and 4.5k is at the high end of that
| class of ebike.
| socalgal2 wrote:
| the problem with $5-$15k bikes is you can't actually use them
| in the USA as they'll be stolen. You can commute if you have
| the place to keep it secure. You can not stop for some
| shopping on the way home though as you'll lose your bike.
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| If you're riding a $10,000 bike to work, your work probably
| provides a place to safely store it. Or you make terrible
| financial decisions
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| The components are all probably very junky, if everything can
| be had for $450
| jakedata wrote:
| Sure if you can't DIY. It's a 20 year old Fuji chromoly-frame
| mountain bike with Shimano components. My biggest expense was
| new batteries, followed by heavy duty e-bike brake pads. What
| did you pay to build yours?
| eecc wrote:
| Christ what an ugly kludge. Just spend a weekend in Amsterdam and
| check out the Tenways and the Vanmoof roaming the streets for an
| idea how to do it, if not right, at least decently
| proee wrote:
| Wow, cool bike! Said nobody.
|
| It's sad to see so much effort being put into a product that is
| utterly uncool. Maybe start with the design (cool) and then
| integrate the mechanics. This is how companies design cool cars.
| NoImmatureAdHom wrote:
| This is a motorcycle. It's a cycle with a motor.
|
| I love that the popularity of motorcycling is taking off with
| better batteries, motors, and control systems!
|
| It's motorcycling though :-)
| webdevver wrote:
| inadequate suspension to be classified as a motorbike imo
| hnav wrote:
| In terms of travel it has as much as a normal motorcycle.
| Which is really absurd for a 24" bike even with those stubby
| crank arms.
| barbazoo wrote:
| Not affiliated but I'm looking into converting my commuter bike
| with a kit from https://ebikes.ca. Seems to make more sense to
| turn any of the million bikes out there into an electric one
| using a reusable kit than buying a single purpose electric bike
| that will end up on the landfill once the company goes bust
| because no one wants to push around a bike that heavy.
| oulipo2 wrote:
| Self-plug: you can take a look at our repairable and
| sustainable battery at https://gouach.com. If it gets depleted,
| it's super easy to replace cells, getting you a whole new
| battery for $50 (price of cells) instead of buying a new $200 -
| $500 battery
| r0me1 wrote:
| I disagree, I went that route and ended up regretting it. While
| converting a regular bike to an e-bike does work, a standard
| commuter bike is designed to carry a person's weight with the
| center of gravity in mind. Adding an electric hub motor and a
| 20 lb lithium battery to a frame with cantilever brakes just
| feels sketchy. A properly designed e-bike typically comes with
| four-piston hydraulic brakes, and the placement of the motor
| and battery is engineered to maintain balance and handling.
| legitster wrote:
| So the interesting thing about this is the ... peddle-by-wire
| drivetrain? So unlike a normal e-bike, when its battery dies it
| turns into a stationary bike.
|
| I love ebikes and generally like what Rivian does, but in a very
| competitive market it's hard to see the appeal of this.
| hbarka wrote:
| If I may also peddle my opinion, this e-bike is a fresh
| innovation and it's easy to see how revolutionary it is. What
| very competitive market has regen, 180 newton-meter of torque,
| programmable power curve, shape-shifting? This e-bike is
| incredible. These days, who lets their iphone battery die?
| kridsdale1 wrote:
| > a pun
|
| Eyyyyyyy
| rglullis wrote:
| Why should we care for "revolutionary" when the design that
| has been working for centuries is cheap, widely understood
| and universally available?
| palmotea wrote:
| > Why should we care for "revolutionary" when the design
| that has been working for centuries is cheap, widely
| understood and universally available?
|
| Because some designer wants to feel good about themselves,
| better than all who came before.
| rglullis wrote:
| If wankery is what they they are after, maybe they should
| go design "revolutionary" sex toys.
| hbarka wrote:
| Horses complained about this when the Model T came.
| nradov wrote:
| Wow I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. If so then nicely
| done. If not then bro do you even bike?
| makeitdouble wrote:
| A phone can get charged with random 5V outlets and you can
| walk around with a 200g battery to make it last two days.
|
| The bike won't fit any of that until there's hot swappable
| batteries sold everywhere, and when it's dead you'll be
| pushing it back home.
| ericd wrote:
| When it's dead, you can order an UberXL and toss this in
| the back? Cheaper than a tow truck...
|
| Also, 100 miles is _a lot_ on a bike. I think they got rid
| of this design requirement by just making the range longer.
| tempestn wrote:
| You could lean up against something and pedal to get a bit
| of charge back in the battery, then you just need to pedal
| it home like a regular dead e-bike, no?
| eikenberry wrote:
| Just don't think of it as an e-bike.. Think of it as an
| electric scooter with a built-in, manual charging solution. The
| question then seems to be how well it compares against other
| electric scooters?
| LoganDark wrote:
| > Due to regulations in some states and jurisdictions, throttle
| will act as an assist boost in those areas, temporarily
| increasing your assist multiplier while you hold it down.
|
| The bike comes with DRM that automatically tracks which location
| you're in and applies regulations to the controls? Fucking hell.
|
| The only things this seems to have over an electric scooter is
| larger wheels, a seat, and a cargo rack. It's almost impossible
| to tell in a time-efficient way though because they really want
| you to watch their presentation and individually click on each
| "SEE MORE" button and read each little excerpt one at a time. I'm
| super annoyed by this website.
|
| Even the most premium possible scooter costs almost $1,000 less
| than this - Apollo Phantom 2.0 Stellar is $3,649 right now, and
| goes like 50 MPH, has far less DRM, and so on. No cargo space
| though.
| Erikun wrote:
| It has a bit of a "The Homer" feel to it, but maybe the designs
| grows on you.
| bigwheels wrote:
| https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/0/05/TheHo...
|
| (https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/The_Homer)
|
| A classic Simpsons episode!
| plantwallshoe wrote:
| My general advice is to never buy a bike from a company that
| doesn't have a core business in building non electric bicycles.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Well, it certainly has a Rivian price.
|
| I suspect I'll be seeing these around here, soon.
| bix6 wrote:
| I wish they'd clean up Class 3. They made the throttles illegal
| in California.
| browningstreet wrote:
| We need fast charging e-bike infrastructure
| hbarka wrote:
| Any details on the regen efficiency? Going downhill would net
| back some energy depending on regen efficiency.
| lpellis wrote:
| This thing at least looks like a bike, some of the 'e-bikes' are
| way more motorcycles than actually meant to be paddled.
| programmertote wrote:
| Glad to see innovation in bicycle space. That said, when I was
| living in NYC, I was always afraid that someone on an e-bike
| would hit me when I'm trying to cross the road (esp. in the
| evenings or when the weather doesn't permit a lot of visibility).
| Some of these e-bikers also ride on the pedestrian platforms and
| it's dangerous (as of 2022, I don't think there was any
| enforcement to keep them out of the platforms).
|
| It'd be interesting to see if/how e-bike laws would evolve if
| this trend gets bigger (ebikes are already big in big cities like
| NYC)
| yalogin wrote:
| 28mph as the top speed seems to go beyond the bike market, but
| it's positioned as a bike. It's also marketed as a mountain bike.
| Of course it's on the person to be safe, just wondering if it
| becomes a problem on the roads and trails
| Computer0 wrote:
| The TM-Q is much more interesting to me as an outsider. What if
| these are clogging up city bike lanes for commercial purposes?
| https://ridealso.com/products/quad
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