[HN Gopher] Is Sora the beginning of the end for OpenAI?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Is Sora the beginning of the end for OpenAI?
        
       Author : warrenm
       Score  : 141 points
       Date   : 2025-10-21 16:01 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (calnewport.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (calnewport.com)
        
       | zerosizedweasle wrote:
       | "Whether Sora lasts or not, however, is somewhat beside the
       | point. What catches my attention most is that OpenAI released
       | this app in the first place.
       | 
       | It wasn't that long ago that Sam Altman was still comparing the
       | release of GPT-5 to the testing of the first atomic bomb , and
       | many commentators took Dario Amodei at his word when he
       | proclaimed 50% of white collar jobs might soon be automated by
       | LLM-based tools."
       | 
       | That's the thing, this has all been predicated on the notion that
       | AGI is next. That's what the money is chasing, why it's sucked in
       | astronomical investments. It's cool, but that's not why Nvidia is
       | a multi trillion dollar company. It's that value because it was
       | promised to be the brainpower behind AGI.
        
         | cratermoon wrote:
         | What was predicted to be next: AGI
         | 
         | What we got next: porn
        
           | droptablemain wrote:
           | to be fair we also got Stephen Hawking bungee jumping |
           | snowboarding | wrestling | drag racing | ice skating | bull-
           | fighting | half-pipe
        
           | c0balt wrote:
           | To be very fair here, a long time before gpt-5 porn was
           | already being produced with stable diffusion (and other open
           | models). Civitai in particular was an open playground for
           | this with everything from NSFW loras, prompts to fined tuned
           | models.
           | 
           | I had to work for a bit with SDXL models from there and the
           | amount of porn on the site, before the recent cleanse, was
           | astonishing.
        
           | knicholes wrote:
           | Wait, we got porn?
        
             | benbayard wrote:
             | Yes, Sam A said that "erotica" was coming to openAI. I
             | don't think he's mentioned visual pornography though
             | https://www.axios.com/2025/10/14/openai-chatgpt-erotica-
             | ment...
        
           | blibble wrote:
           | I can't imagine the republican party is going to be
           | particularly happy about AI being used for mass porn
           | generation
        
             | neonnoodle wrote:
             | prompt records = mass blackmail generation
        
           | quantified wrote:
           | Porn has driven everyday tech. Online payment systems,
           | broadband adoption.
           | 
           | Porn (visual and written erotic impression) has been a normal
           | part of the human experience for thousands of years. Across
           | different religions, cultures, technological capabilities.
           | We're humans.
           | 
           | There will always be a market for it, wherever there is a
           | mismatch between desire for and access to sexual activity.
           | 
           | Generate your own porn is definitely a huge market. Sharing
           | it with others, and then the follow-on concern of what's in
           | that shared content, could lead to problems.
        
             | noir_lord wrote:
             | > There will always be a market for it, wherever there is a
             | mismatch between desire for and access to sexual activity.
             | 
             | Attractive people in sexually fulfilling relationships
             | _still_ look at porn.
             | 
             | It's just human.
        
               | bossyTeacher wrote:
               | >Attractive people in sexually fulfilling relationships
               | still look at porn.
               | 
               | How do you know those relationships are "sexually
               | fulfilling"?
        
               | quantified wrote:
               | Works for me. You end up travelling for a week away from
               | your partner, they're sick for a while, etc.
        
               | skylurk wrote:
               | I, uh, have a friend, who tells me watching porn with
               | their partner once in a while, can be pretty hot.
        
               | jrflowers wrote:
               | > How do you know those relationships are "sexually
               | fulfilling"?
               | 
               | You either believe what people report, the clearly-stated
               | position on erotic material of the American Association
               | of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists (1), or
               | you can just imagine in your head what you think other
               | people's sex lives are like and just believe whatever you
               | come up with.
               | 
               | 1. https://www.aasect.org/our-mission.html
        
             | rchaud wrote:
             | This is a meme I see online often (and in the show Silicon
             | Valley), but I don't think it holds up in practice.
             | 
             | Re: payment systems, Visa and MC are notoriously unfriendly
             | to porn vendors, sending them into the arms of crooked
             | payment processors like Wirecard. Paypal grew to prominence
             | because it was once the only way to buy and sell on Ebay.
             | Crypto went from nerd hobby to speculative asset, shipping
             | the "medium of exchange for porn purchases" entirely.
             | 
             | As for broadband adoption, it's as likely to have occurred
             | for MP3 piracy and being 200X faster than dialup, as it was
             | for porn.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | At least the valuations make sense now. ;)
        
         | Karrot_Kream wrote:
         | What signals have you seen that point to investment being
         | predicated around AGI? Boosting Nvidia stock prices could also
         | be explained by an expectation of increased inference usage by
         | office workers which increases demands for GPUs and justifies
         | datacenter buildouts. That's a much more "sober" outlook than
         | AGI.
         | 
         | In fact a fun thing to think about is what signals we could
         | observe in markets that specifically call out AGI as the
         | expectation as opposed to simple bullish outlook on inference
         | usage.
        
           | port3000 wrote:
           | "Boosting Nvidia stock prices could also be explained by an
           | expectation of increased inference usage by office workers
           | which increases demands for GPUs and justifies datacenter
           | buildouts"
           | 
           | AI is already integrated into every single Google search, as
           | well as Slack, Notion, Teams, Microsoft Office, Google Docs,
           | Zoom, Google Meet, Figma, Hubspot, Zendesk, Freshdesk,
           | Intercom, Basecamp, Evernote, Dropbox, Salesforce, Canva,
           | Photoshop, Airtable, Gmail, LinkedIn, Shopify, Asana, Trello,
           | Monday.com, ClickUp, Miro, Confluence, Jira, GitHub, Linear,
           | Docusign, Workday
           | 
           | .....so where is this 100X increase in inference demand going
           | to come from?
           | 
           | Oh and the ChatGPT consumer app is seeing slowing growth:
           | https://techcrunch.com/2025/10/17/chatgpts-mobile-app-is-
           | see...
        
             | Karrot_Kream wrote:
             | Integrations and inference costs aren't necessarily 1:1.
             | Integrations can use more AI, reasoning models can cause
             | token explosion, Jevons Paradox can drive more inference
             | tokens, big businesses and government agencies (around the
             | world, not just the US) can begin using more LLMs. I'm not
             | sure integrations are that simple. A lot of integrations
             | that I know of are very basic integrations.
             | 
             | > Oh and the ChatGPT consumer app is seeing slowing growth:
             | https://techcrunch.com/2025/10/17/chatgpts-mobile-app-is-
             | see...
             | 
             | While I haven't read the article yet, if this is true then
             | yes this could be an indication of consumer app style
             | inference (ChatGPT, Claude, etc) waning which will put more
             | pressure on industrial/tool inference uses to buoy up
             | costs.
        
             | hyperpape wrote:
             | My experience suffering with JIRA daily is that the AI is
             | useless and fairly easy to ignore. If it were actually
             | helpful, I could imagine using it more, and the costs would
             | increase proportionately.
        
               | bfLives wrote:
               | On the other hand, I've found the integration in
               | Confluence quite helpful, particularly for making sense
               | of acronyms.
        
         | mola wrote:
         | I think the motivation for someone like Altman is not AGI, it's
         | power and influence. And when he wields billions he has power,
         | it doesn't really matter if there's AGI coming.
        
           | hu3 wrote:
           | Yep, he just wants to become too big to fail at this point.
           | 
           | I view OpenAI like a pyramid scheme: taking in increasing
           | amounts of money to pursuit ever growing promisses that can
           | be dangled like a carrot to the next investor.
           | 
           | If you owe investors $100 million, that's your problem. If
           | you owe investors $100 billion, that's their problem.
        
         | tmaly wrote:
         | We were promised AGI and all we are getting is Bob Ross
         | coloring on the walls of a Target store.
         | 
         | The app is fun to use for about 10 minutes then that is it.
         | 
         | Same goes for Grok imagine. All people want to do is generate
         | NSFW content.
         | 
         | What happened to improving the world?
        
           | qwery wrote:
           | I apologise for talking past the point you're making, but,
           | Bob Ross was a human being, you know, with thoughts and
           | stuff. How could any of these AI toys possibly compare?
           | 
           | I would love to have Bob Ross, wielding a crayon, add some
           | happy little trees to the walls of a Target.
        
         | standardUser wrote:
         | AGI is like L5 automated driving - academic concepts that have
         | no bearing on the ability of these technologies to transform
         | the economy.
        
           | hollerith wrote:
           | And no bearing on the ability of these technologies to
           | thoroughly screw us.
        
       | marshfarm wrote:
       | Was a mistake from the beginning to use language as the basis for
       | tokens and embedded spaces between them to generate semantics. It
       | wasn't thought out, it was a snowball trial and error that went
       | out of control.
        
         | bongodongobob wrote:
         | Lol ok. We'll wait for your game changing technology, keep us
         | posted.
        
           | kick_in_the_dor wrote:
           | OP has a point. Are these type of embeddings the best way to
           | model thought?
        
             | brokensegue wrote:
             | it's the best way we've found so far?
        
             | mentalgear wrote:
             | Certainly not the best, just the most practical /
             | commercially sell-able. And once a pattern, like LLM text
             | embedding is established as the way to "AGI", it takes
             | years for other more realistic approaches to gain funding
             | again. Gary Marcus wrote about this extensively how
             | legitimate AGI research is actually being put back years
             | due to the LLM superficial AGI hype.
        
               | marshfarm wrote:
               | I think the best way would have been to assume thought is
               | wordless (as the science tells us now), and images and
               | probability (as symbols) are still arbitrary. That was
               | the threshold to cross. Neither neurosymbolic, nor
               | neuromorphic get there. Nor will any "world model"
               | achieve anything as models are arbitrary.
               | 
               | Using the cybernetic to information theory to cog science
               | to comp sci lineage was an increasingly limited set of
               | tools to employ for intelligence.
               | 
               | Cybernetics should have been ported expansively to
               | neurosci, then neurobio, then something more expansive
               | like eco psychology or coodination dynamics. Instead of
               | expanding, comp sci became too reductive.
               | 
               | The idea a reductive system that anyone with a little
               | math training could A/B test vast swaths of information
               | gleaned from existing forms and unlock highly evolved
               | processes like thinking, reasoning, action and define
               | this as a path to intelligence is quite strange. It
               | defies scientific analysis. Intelligence is incredibly
               | dense in biology, a vastly hidden, parallel process in
               | which one affinity being removed (like the emotions) and
               | the intel vanished into zombiehood.
               | 
               | Had we looked at that evidence, we'd have understood that
               | language/tokens/embedded space couldn't possibly be a
               | composite for all that parallel.
        
             | bongodongobob wrote:
             | No one knows, especially not parent with his one liner
             | quip.
        
           | marshfarm wrote:
           | Action patterns in syntax? They already exist, the binary
           | chose to forgo that level emulation for arbitrary words, in
           | arbitrary symbols, predicted, geometrically arranged in space
           | as "meaning" as tokens.
           | 
           | I'd suggest comp sci caught the low fruit, whatever comes out
           | of thekeyboard as a basis, non too smart.
        
       | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
       | I'm more concerned about Sora (and video-generating AI in
       | general) being the final pour that cements us into our post-truth
       | world.
       | 
       | People will be swayed by AI-generated videos while also being
       | convinced real videos are AI.
       | 
       | I'm kinda terrified of the future of politics.
        
         | pmontra wrote:
         | Maybe they'll have to tour and meet people in person because
         | videos will be devoid of trust.
         | 
         | On the other side we want to believe in something, so we'll
         | believe in the video that will suit our beliefs.
         | 
         | It's an interesting struggle.
        
           | bilekas wrote:
           | Yeah I'm just as annoyed with the AI slop that's coming out
           | as anyone, but the next generation of voters won't believe a
           | thing and so they will be pushed towards believing what they
           | see in real life like campaigners who go door to door etc. It
           | could be a great thing and would give meaning to he electoral
           | system again ironically!
        
             | kulahan wrote:
             | Honestly I can't see a solution beyond concentrating power
             | to highly localized regions. Lots more mayors, city
             | councils, etc. so there is a real chance you can meet
             | someone who represents you.
             | 
             | I don't fully believe _anything_ I see on the internet that
             | isn 't backed up by at _least_ two independent sources.
             | Even then, I 've probably been tricked at least once.
        
               | bilekas wrote:
               | It may come to that, where the federal power is less
               | influential and there to mainly manage overall services
               | of the nation etc, and then the local states let's say
               | manage themselves, if I'm not wrong that was kind of the
               | original idea of the great experiment. It doesn't sound
               | inherently wrong untill you add tribalism into the mix
               | where people are not working with eachother, but that
               | seems to be the major push these days, at least that's
               | the sentiment I get.
               | 
               | Would that change, maybe not, but maybe it would lessen
               | the power grabs that some small few seem to gravitate
               | towards.
               | 
               | I know if I wanted to influence the major elections,
               | OpenAI, Google and Meta would be the first places I would
               | go. That's a very small group of points of failure.
               | Elections recently seem to be quite narrow, maybe they
               | were before too though, but that kind of power is a
               | silent soft power that really goes unchecked.
               | 
               | If people are more in tune with being mislead, that power
               | can slowly degrade.
        
           | tinfoilhatter wrote:
           | Most members of the US congress and the current presidential
           | administration, are already devoid of trust. I can't speak
           | for other countries governments, but it seems to be a fairly
           | common situation.
        
           | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
           | > Maybe they'll have to tour and meet people in person
           | 
           | That doesn't scale.
           | 
           | During campaign season, they're already running as many
           | rallies as they can. Outside the campaign train, smaller Town
           | Hall events only reach what, a couple hundred people, tops?
           | And at best, they might change the minds of a couple dozen
           | people.
           | 
           | EDIT: It's also worth mentioning that people generally don't
           | seek to have their mind changed. Someone who is planning on
           | voting for one candidate is _extremely_ unlikely to go to a
           | rally for the opposition.
        
         | ajuc wrote:
         | Every breakthrough in information technology caused disruption
         | in the historical sense (i.e. millions of deaths).
         | 
         | From the writing, through organized religion, printing press,
         | radio and tv, internet and now ai.
         | 
         | Printing press and reformation wars is obvious, radio and
         | totalitarianism is less known, internet and new populism is
         | just starting to be recognized for what it is.
         | 
         | Eventually we'll get it regulated and adjust to it. But in the
         | meantime it's going to be a wild ride.
        
         | bonoboTP wrote:
         | We will adjust. And guess what, before photography, people
         | managed somehow. People gossiped all sorts of stuff, spread
         | malicious runors and you had to guess what's a lie and what's
         | not. The way people dealt with it was witness testimony and
         | physical evidence.
        
           | sofixa wrote:
           | > The way people dealt with it was witness testimony and
           | physical evidence.
           | 
           | Which are inapplicable today.
           | 
           | > We will adjust
           | 
           | Will we? Maybe years later... per event. It's finally now
           | dawning on the majority of Britons that Brexit was a mistake
           | they were lied about.
        
             | bonoboTP wrote:
             | That has nothing to do with GenAI.
        
               | sofixa wrote:
               | Yep, it's only made worse by it.
        
             | schnable wrote:
             | > Maybe years later...
             | 
             | It is a concern... it took a few centuries for the printing
             | press to spur the Catholic/Protestant wars and then finally
             | resolve them.
        
             | pessimizer wrote:
             | > Which are inapplicable today.
             | 
             | No, they are not.
        
             | wongarsu wrote:
             | Brexit is a great example how you can just lie by writing
             | stuff on the side of a bus, no fake photos or videos
             | required
        
               | sofixa wrote:
               | Exactly, it proves how easy it is to influence people.
               | Which would be even easier with fake photos and videos.
        
           | Teever wrote:
           | Of course we will adjust. That is a truism that is besides
           | the point.
           | 
           | What matters is how many people will suffer during this
           | adjustment period.
           | 
           | How many Rwandan genocides will happen because of this
           | technology? How many lynchings or witch burnings?
        
             | bonoboTP wrote:
             | It's not beside the point.you can lie with words, you can
             | lie with cartoons and drawings and paintings. You can lie
             | with movies.
             | 
             | We will collectively understand that pixels on a screen are
             | like cartoons or Photoshop on steroid.
        
               | Teever wrote:
               | Marconi demonstrated radio in 1895 and the first
               | broadcast radio station started in 1920. By the 1930s
               | Adolf Hitler was routinely using the medium to broadcast
               | vile propaganda about Jews and others which lead to the
               | holocaust in the 1940s.
               | 
               | About 40 years later the Rwandan genocide took place and
               | many scholars attribute a preceding radio-based
               | propaganda campaign as playing a key role in increasing
               | ethnic violence in the aware.
               | 
               | Since then the link between radio and genocide seems to
               | have decreased over time but it's likely that this isn't
               | so much because humans have a better understanding of the
               | medium but more so because propaganda has moved to more
               | effective mediums like the internet.
               | 
               | Given that we didn't actually solve the problems with
               | radio before moving onto the next medium it isn't likely
               | that we'll figure out the problems with these new mediums
               | before millions die.
        
               | bonoboTP wrote:
               | It was easy to spread lies through print and through good
               | old fashioned word of mouth too. No radio needed.
               | 
               | And apropos radio, the War of the Worlds radio drama in
               | 1938 is know to have made quite some afraid that it's
               | real. And plenty of people collected money in communist
               | Hungary for the sake of the enslaved Isaura (protagonist
               | of a Brazilian soap opera). But most people adjusted and
               | understand that radio dramas are a thing, movies are a
               | thing, and will adjust to the fact that pixels on a
               | screen are just that.
        
               | Teever wrote:
               | You seem to be suggesting that there's no noteworthy
               | difference in the speed and effectiveness of different
               | communication mediums like spoken, written, or radio and
               | as such there's no noteworthy difference in the outcome
               | of their deployment.
               | 
               | Is that a fair assessment of your comment? Is there a way
               | to test your assertion?
        
               | bonoboTP wrote:
               | No I'm saying that people adapt, society adapts. Most
               | people today don't shit themselves in the cinema thinking
               | that the monster will appear among them, they understand
               | that characters in TV series are not real and only the
               | mentally ill will berate the actor in the street for
               | yesterday's episode.
               | 
               | It will take some time but it's in fact quite easy to
               | explain it to older relatives if you make a few custom
               | examples.
               | 
               | The bigger point is that realism is a red herring. You
               | can spread propaganda with hand drawn caricatures just as
               | well or even better. It's a panic over nothing. The real
               | lever of control is what news to report on and how to
               | frame it, what quotes to use, which experts to ask and
               | which ones not to. The bottleneck never was at HD
               | realism.
        
           | mola wrote:
           | Yes, that adjustment could well be monarchy.
           | 
           | I can't see how functioning democracy can survive without
           | truth as shared grounds of discussion.
        
             | bonoboTP wrote:
             | I don't think the US was a monarchy for its first hundred
             | years.
        
               | JadeNB wrote:
               | > > I can't see how functioning democracy can survive
               | without truth as shared grounds of discussion.
               | 
               | > I don't think the US was a monarchy for its first
               | hundred years.
               | 
               | Did the US not have truth as shared grounds of discussion
               | for its first hundred years?
        
               | timschmidt wrote:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism has been
               | a thing for a very long time.
        
               | JadeNB wrote:
               | Right, by which standard truth has never been a shared
               | grounds of discussion. I think that there's a big
               | difference between "some people lie" and "there's no
               | agreement on shared truth."
        
               | bonoboTP wrote:
               | That has nothing to do with generated videos though.
        
             | safety1st wrote:
             | The media's been lying to us for as long as it has existed.
             | 
             | Prior to the Internet the range of opinions which you could
             | gain access to was far more limited. If the media were all
             | in agreement on something it was really hard to find a
             | counter-argument.
             | 
             | We're so far down the rabbit hole already of bots and
             | astroturfing online, I doubt that AI deepfake videos are
             | going to be the nail in the coffin for democracy.
             | 
             | The majority of the bot, deepfake and AI lies are going to
             | be created by the people who have the most capital.
             | 
             | Just like they owned the traditional media and created the
             | lies there.
        
           | afavour wrote:
           | We'll _have to_ adjust, certainly. But that doesn 't mean
           | nothing bad will happen.
           | 
           | > People gossiped all sorts of stuff, spread malicious runors
           | and you had to guess what's a lie and what's not.
           | 
           | And there were things like witch trials where people were
           | burnt at the stake!
           | 
           | The resolution was a shared faith in central authority.
           | Witness testimony and physical evidence don't scale to
           | populations of millions, you have to trust in the person
           | getting that evidence. And that trust is what's rapidly
           | eroding these days. In politics, in police, in the courts.
        
         | daxfohl wrote:
         | Most people's minds are already made up. All this does is add
         | some confirmation bias so they can feel better about what they
         | were already certain of. I don't think it fundamentally changes
         | anyone's opinions.
        
         | sixothree wrote:
         | The willingness of people to believe misinformation today is
         | astounding. They are already choosing to surround themselves
         | with voices of hate and anger. I don't want to see what's next
         | for them.
        
         | CaptainOfCoit wrote:
         | "See it to believe it" will once again be more important.
        
         | mentalgear wrote:
         | Well, maybe it's less about Sora, but how they push the world
         | towards making their next product essential: WorldCoin [0],
         | Altman's blockchain token system (the one with the alien orb)
         | to scan everybody's biometric fingerprint and serve as the only
         | Source of Truth for the World - controlled by one private
         | company.
         | 
         | It's like the old saying: They create their own ecosystem.
         | Circular stock market deals being the most obvious, but the
         | WorldCoin has been for years in the making and Altman often
         | described it as the only alternative in a post-truth world (the
         | one he himself is making of course).
         | 
         | [0] https://www.forbes.com.au/news/innovation/worldcoin-
         | crypto-p...
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | This is a non-concern. You can see videos where a specific
         | thing happens where people will describe a different thing
         | happening. Not some eyewitness off memory. You can look at a
         | video and there will be people on Reddit saying stuff that
         | didn't happen.
         | 
         | Then you can see any conversation about the video will be even
         | more divorced from reality.
         | 
         | None of this requires video manipulation.
         | 
         | The majority of people are idiots on a grand scale. Just search
         | any social media for PEMDAS and you will find hordes of people
         | debating the value of 2 + 3 / 5 on all sorts of grounds. "It's
         | definitely 1. 2+3 =5 then by 5 is 1" stuff like that.
        
         | hombre_fatal wrote:
         | The problem is that we're already post truth.
         | 
         | Just consider how a screenshot of a tweet or made-up headline
         | already spreads like a wildfire:
         | https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1980221072512635117
         | 
         | Sora involves far more work than what is required to spread
         | misinfo.
         | 
         | Finally, people don't really care about the truth. They care
         | about things that confirm their world view, or comfortable
         | things. Or they dismiss things that are inconvenient for their
         | tribe and focus on things that are inconvenient for other
         | tribes.
        
           | nothrabannosir wrote:
           | > Finally, people don't really care about the truth.
           | 
           | That same link has two "reader notes" about truth.
           | 
           | The lie is half way around the world etc, but that can also
           | be explained by people's short term instincts and reaction to
           | outrage. It's not mutually exclusive with caring about truth.
           | 
           | Maybe I'm being uncharitable -- did you mean something like
           | "people don't care about truth enough to let it stop them
           | from giving into outrage"? Or..?
        
           | FloorEgg wrote:
           | Assuming this is all true, what's the most optimistic view
           | you can take looking ~20 years out?
           | 
           | How could all of this wind up leading to a much more fair,
           | kind, sustainable and prosperous future?
           | 
           | Acknowledging risks is important, but where do YOU want all
           | this to go?
        
             | Eisenstein wrote:
             | As adults already, we grew up with things that are either
             | not relevant or give us the wrong responses to our
             | heuristics.
             | 
             | But the kids who grow up with this stuff will just
             | integrate into their life and proceed. The society which
             | results from that will be something we cannot predict as it
             | will be alien to us. Whether it will be better or not --
             | probably not.
             | 
             | Humans evolved to spend most of their time with a small
             | group of trusted people. By removing ourselves from that we
             | have created all sorts of problems that we just aren't
             | really that equipped to deal with. If this is solvable or
             | not has yet to be seen.
        
               | FloorEgg wrote:
               | I don't disagree with any points you made, but I do find
               | it interesting you refused a prompt to imagine a better
               | future, articulate your wants, and practice optimism.
               | That's your choice, but a telling one.
        
               | danaris wrote:
               | It's really hard to imagine how "truth is harder to find,
               | more people lie with impunity, and convince others that
               | their lies are true" could have a positive outcome.
               | 
               | Moreover, I think it's really hard overall to imagine a
               | _better_ future as long as all of this technology and
               | power is in the hands of massively wealthy people who
               | have shown their willingness to abuse it to maintain that
               | wealth at our expense.
               | 
               | The optimistic future effectively _requires_ some means
               | of reclaiming some of that power and wealth for the rest
               | of us.
        
               | FloorEgg wrote:
               | Yes, but, overwhelmingly we go where we look. Usually
               | what is meaningful and worthwhile is hard. Also we get
               | better at hard things when we practice doing them.
               | 
               | There is a concept in racing when taking a corner to
               | "keep your eyes off the wall", and instead look where you
               | want the car to go.
               | 
               | Imo the most scary part of the problems we face isn't
               | what you or GP are talking about, it's everyone else's
               | reactions to them. The staring at the wall while
               | screaming or giving up, and refusing to look where you
               | want to go.
               | 
               | It's harder to satisfy our wants if we cant articulate
               | them.
        
               | danaris wrote:
               | Well, sure--and I am, in general, a very positive person.
               | 
               | But there's a _huge_ difference between (a)  "given that
               | this thing exists that seems very bad, can you imagine a
               | way to a better future?" and (b) "can you imagine ways
               | that this thing that seems very bad could actually be
               | very good?"
               | 
               | The ways to a better future are _in spite of_ these
               | developments, not because of them, and I don 't think
               | it's at all helpful to act like that's not the case or be
               | all disappointed (and, frankly, a bit condescending) at
               | people who refuse to play along with attempts to do so.
               | 
               | And it's possible that (a) above is what you _meant_ ,
               | but your wording very much sounded like (b).
        
               | FloorEgg wrote:
               | I asked three questions. Two were about the kind of
               | future we want. One was about how we might get there. I
               | know the "how" question can feel overwhelming. It often
               | does for me too, and I think about it a lot.
               | 
               | What I find curious is that no one has really engaged
               | with any of these questions yet. Not even to reflect
               | personally on why. That's not a criticism, it's an
               | observation. I think it's worth asking what makes this
               | kind of conversation so difficult.
               | 
               | When I said that declining to imagine a better future was
               | telling, I didn't mean it as a put-down. I meant it as a
               | challenge. Because when we stop trying to define what
               | better looks like, we give up our power to those who will
               | define it for us. History shows where that leads. That's
               | how authoritarianism takes root; not only through force,
               | but through the quiet surrender of imagination and
               | personal responsibility.
               | 
               | If my earlier tone came across as condescending, that
               | wasn't my intent. My intention is tough love. I believe
               | that acknowledging problems matters, but it's not enough.
               | If we stop there, we trade agency for frustration. I'd
               | rather see us wrestle with what we want, even if it's
               | hard, than resign ourselves to cynicism.
               | 
               | So I'll ask again: what kind of future would you actually
               | want?
               | 
               | EDIT: I just realized that I missed part of an answer in
               | your earlier comment, which I commend you for now. I
               | apologize for not recognizing it before.
               | 
               | You said:
               | 
               | The optimistic future effectively requires some means of
               | reclaiming some of that power and wealth for the rest of
               | us.
               | 
               | Kudos. That's a start.
        
           | mat_b wrote:
           | > Finally, people don't really care about the truth. They
           | care about things that confirm their world view. Or they
           | dismiss things that are inconvenient for their tribe and
           | focus on things that are inconvenient for other tribes.
           | 
           | People have always been this way though. The tribes are just
           | organized differently in the internet age.
        
             | LexiMax wrote:
             | I strongly suspect future generations are going to look
             | back on the age of trying to cram the entire world into one
             | of several shared social spaces and say "What were those
             | idiots thinking?"
        
               | mcphage wrote:
               | In our defense (slightly), it was never really possible
               | before, so we didn't previously have an opportunity to
               | learn what a civilization-shatteringly bad idea it was.
        
           | godelski wrote:
           | Not to mention that the president posts AI slop
           | frequently[0]. He even posted, and took down, a video
           | promising people a "med bay". A fictional device that just
           | cures everything.
           | 
           | [0] Trump as "King Trump" flying a jet that dumps shit onto
           | protesters https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/115
           | 3982516232...
           | 
           | [1] https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/09/30/medbed-trump-ai-
           | video...
        
           | code4life wrote:
           | > Finally, people don't really care about the truth.
           | 
           | What is truth? Pontius Pilate
        
           | marshfarm wrote:
           | We're probably post-narrative and post-lexical (words) but
           | haven't become aware of what to possibly update these tools
           | with. Post-truth is an abstraction rooted in the arbitrary.
           | 
           | Reality is specific. Actions, materials. Words and language
           | are arbitrary, they're processes, and they're simulations.
           | They don't reference things, they represent them in
           | metaphors, so sure they have "meaning" but the meanings
           | reduce the specifics in reality which have many times the
           | meaning possibility to linearity, cause and effect. That's
           | not conforming to the reality that exists, that's severely
           | reducing, even dumbing down reality.
        
             | AnimalMuppet wrote:
             | There is a reality which exists. Words have meaning. Words
             | are more or less true as the meaning they convey conforms
             | more or less well to the reality that exists. So no, truth
             | is not rooted in the arbitrary. Quite the opposite.
             | 
             | Or at least, words _had_ meaning. As we become post-
             | lexical, it becomes harder to tell how well any sequence of
             | words corresponds to reality. This is post truth - not that
             | there is no reality, but that we no longer can judge the
             | truth content of a statement. And that 's a _huge_ problem,
             | both for our own thought life, and for society.
        
           | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
           | Oh well, I'll put it out there. If people cared about
           | verified provable truths, religion of any kind wouldn't
           | exist.
        
             | philipallstar wrote:
             | > If people cared about verified provable truths, religion
             | of any kind wouldn't exist.
             | 
             | Can you provide a verified proof of this statement please?
        
               | raw_anon_1111 wrote:
               | Really? Everything about religion is fantasy and
               | unprovable. Unless you believe that the earth is only
               | 6500 years old, created in 7 days then a few centuries
               | later someone built a boat that took two of each animal
               | in the entire world to save them.
               | 
               | Then fast forward to a man being born from a virgin that
               | rose from the dead three days after being crucified.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | It just makes trusted/verified sources more important, and more
         | people to care about it. I wouldn't be terrified for politics
         | so much as the raised barrier to entry (and concentration) of
         | the press - people will pay attention to the BBC, Guardian,
         | Times, but not (even less so) independentjourno.com; those
         | sources will be more sceptical of whistleblowers and freelance
         | investigative contributions, etc.
        
         | Razengan wrote:
         | Well, usually when there's a mass problem, some technology
         | eventually eliminates it.
         | 
         | Like cars making horse manure in cities a non-issue
         | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w61d-NBqafM)
         | 
         | Maybe the solution to everybody lying would be some way to
         | directly access a person's actual memories from their brains..
        
         | pdntspa wrote:
         | Just yesterday I saw a Sora-generated video that purported to
         | be someone filming a failed HIMARS missile failing and falling
         | on stopped traffic and exploding on the 5 in Camp Pendleton on
         | Saturday. (IRL they were doing some kind of live-fire drill and
         | it did actually involve projectiles flying over the freeway.)
         | 
         | While there were some debris instances IRL the freeway was
         | completely shut down per the governors orders and nobody was
         | harmed. (Had he not done this, that same debris may have hit
         | motorists, so this was a good call on his part)
         | 
         | You could see the "Sora" watermark in the video, but it was
         | still popular enough to make it in my reels feed that is
         | normally always a different kind of content.
         | 
         | In this case whoever made that was sloppy enough to use a
         | turnkey service like Sora. I can easily generate videos
         | suitable for reels using my GPU and those programs don't
         | (visibly) watermark.
         | 
         | We are in for dark times. Who knows how many AI-generated
         | propaganda videos are slipping under the radar because the
         | operator is actually half-skilled.
        
           | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
           | > I can easily generate videos suitable for reels using my
           | GPU and those programs don't (visibly) watermark.
           | 
           | Curious what you used. I have an RTX 5090 and I've tried
           | using some local video generators and the results are
           | absolute garbage unless I'm asking for something extremely
           | simple and uncreative like "woman dancing in a field".
        
             | skirmish wrote:
             | A quick search found this example 18 second video generated
             | on 3090: https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/
             | 1kp5jb8/da...
             | 
             | I am pretty sure what you want is doable on a 5090 with
             | some effort but it will not be just a text prompt to video.
             | More like input key frames as images and interpolate video
             | between them.
        
         | highwaylights wrote:
         | I'm surprised this isn't a bigger concern given that:
         | 
         | For over a year now we've been at the point whereby a video of
         | anyone saying or doing anything can be generated by anyone and
         | put on the Internet, and it's only becoming more convincing
         | (and rapidly)
         | 
         | We've been living in a post-truth world for almost ten years,
         | so it's now become normalized
         | 
         | Almost half of the population has been conditioned to believe
         | anything that supports their political alignment
         | 
         | People will actually believe incredibly far-fetched things, and
         | when the original video has been debunked, will still hold the
         | belief because by that point the Internet has filled up with
         | more garbage to support something they really _want_ to believe
         | 
         | It's a weird time to be alive
        
           | cruffle_duffle wrote:
           | Absolutely! And don't kid yourself into thinking you are
           | immune from this either. You can find support of basically
           | anything you want to believe. And your friendly LLM will be
           | more than happy to confirm it too!
           | 
           | Honestly it goes right back to philosophy and what truth even
           | means. Is there even such a thing?
        
             | Eisenstein wrote:
             | People forget that critical thinking means thinking
             | critically about everything, even things you already think
             | are true because they fit into your worldview.
        
               | antod wrote:
               | Let alone the hordes who think "critical thinking" just
               | means disagreeing with things.
        
             | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
             | > Honestly it goes right back to philosophy and what truth
             | even means. Is there even such a thing?
             | 
             | Truth absolutely is a thing. But sometimes, it's nuanced,
             | and people don't like nuance. They want something they can
             | say in a 280-character tweet that they can use to "destroy"
             | someone online.
        
         | overvale wrote:
         | Other people have said this, but I don't think it's going to be
         | any different than living in a world where people can spread
         | rumors orally or print lies with a printing press. We've been
         | dealing with those challenges for a long time.
         | 
         | Our ways of thinking and our courts understand that you can't
         | trust what people say and you can't trust what you read. We've
         | internalized that as a society.
         | 
         | Looking back, there seems to have been a brief period of time
         | when you could actually trust photographs and videos. I think
         | in the long run, this period of time will be seen as a
         | historical anomaly, and video will be no more trusted than the
         | printed or spoken word is today.
        
         | truelson wrote:
         | We are having a huge amount of technological change (we haven't
         | even learned how to handle social media as a society yet...).
         | We're experiencing a global loss in trust, and things may fall
         | apart for a bit until our society develops a better immune
         | system to such ills. It is scary.
         | 
         | I think we may revert back to trusting only smaller groups of
         | people, being skeptical of anything outside that group,
         | becoming a bit more tribal. I hope without too many deleterious
         | effects, but a lot could happen.
         | 
         | But humans, as a species, are survivors. And we, with our
         | thinking machines will figure out ultimately how to deal with
         | it all. I just hope the pain of this transition is not
         | catastrophic.
        
         | robofanatic wrote:
         | If you don't like any thing digital (image/video/text) then
         | it's definitely AI generated. I guess AI has kind of killed the
         | "democratization of news" introduced by social media.
        
         | csallen wrote:
         | People have been tricked by counterfeits ever since the
         | invention of writing (or even drawing) first made it possible
         | for a person to communicate without being physically present.
         | 
         | At that moment, it simultaneously became possible to create
         | "deep fakes" by simply forging a signature and tricking readers
         | as to who authored the information.
         | 
         | And even before that, just with speaking, it was already
         | possible to spread lies and misinformation, and such things
         | happened frequently, often with disastrous consequences. Just
         | think of all the witch hunts, false religions, and false rumors
         | that have been spread through the history of mankind.
         | 
         | All of this is to say that mankind is quite used to dealing
         | with information that has questionable authorship,
         | authenticity, or accuracy. And mankind is quite used to
         | suffering as a result of these challenges. It's nothing
         | particularly new that it's moving into a new media format
         | (video), especially considering that this is a relatively new
         | format in the history of mankind to begin with.
         | 
         | (FWIW, the best defense against deep fakes has always been to
         | pay attention to the _source_ of information rather than just
         | the content. A video about XYZ coming from XYZ 's social media
         | account is more likely to be accurate than if it comes from
         | elsewhere. An article in the NYTimes that you _read_ in the
         | NYTimes is more likely to be authentic than a screenshot of an
         | article you read from some social media account. Etc. It 's not
         | a perfect measure -- nothing is -- but I'd say it's the main
         | reason we can have trust despite thousands of years of deep
         | fakes.)
         | 
         | IMO the fact that social media -- and the internet in general
         | -- have decentralized media while also decoupling it from
         | geography is less precedented and more worrisome.
        
         | kazinator wrote:
         | Here is the thing: we should _never_ have trusted photographs
         | and motion pictures.
         | 
         | Fakery isn't new, only the product of scale and quality at
         | which it is becoming possible.
        
         | kazinator wrote:
         | Being convinced that real videos are AI is arguably a better
         | position than being convinced that real videos convey the iron-
         | clad truth.
         | 
         | Everything is manipulated or generated until proven otherwise.
        
         | anarticle wrote:
         | I think their game theoretic aim was to completely discredit
         | video online. Just as we don't accept text in general as truth
         | or image when we see it, we are being flooded with completely
         | fake vids so people can shake the idea that videos are truth.
         | 
         | It smells of e/acc, effective altruist ethics which are not my
         | favorite, but I don't work at OpenAI so I don't have a say I
         | can only interpret.
         | 
         | I agree, but we will likely continue down this road...
        
         | shnp wrote:
         | Flawless AI generated videos will result in video footage not
         | being trusted.
         | 
         | This will simply take us back about 150 years to the time
         | before the camera was common.
         | 
         | The transition period may be painful though.
        
         | roadside_picnic wrote:
         | > the final pour that cements us into our post-truth world.
         | 
         | I find it a bit more concerning that anyone would not already
         | understand how deeply we exist in a "post-truth" world. Every
         | piece of information we've consumed for the last few decades
         | has increasingly been shaped by algorithms optimizing someone
         | else's target.
         | 
         | But the real danger of post-truth is when there is a still
         | enough of a veneer of truth that you can use distortions to
         | effectively manipulate the public. Losing that veneer is
         | essentially a collapse of the whole system, which will have
         | consequences I don't think we can really understand.
         | 
         | The pre and early days of social media were riddled with
         | various "leaks" of private photos and video. But what does it
         | mean to leak a nude photo of a celebrity when you can just as
         | easily generate a photo that is indistinguishable? The entire
         | reason leaks like that were so popular is precisely because
         | people wanted a glimpse into something _real_ about the private
         | life of these screen personalities (otherwise  'leaks' and
         | 'nude scenes' would have the same value). As image generation
         | reaches the limit, it will be impossible to ever really
         | distinguish between voyeurism and imagination.
         | 
         | Similarly we live in an age of mass surveillance, but what does
         | surveillance footage mean when it can be trivially faked. Think
         | of how radicalizing surveillance footage has been over the past
         | few decades. Consider for example the video of the Rodney King
         | beating. Increasingly such a video could not be trusted.
         | 
         | > I'm kinda terrified of the future of politics.
         | 
         | If you aren't already terrified enough of the _present_ of
         | politics, then I wouldn 't be worried about what Sora brings us
         | tomorrow. I honestly think what we'll see soon is not
         | increasingly more powerful authoritarian systems, but the break
         | down of systems of control everywhere. As these systems _over-
         | extend_ themselves they will collapse. The peak of social media
         | power was to _not_ let it go further than it was a few years
         | ago, Sora represents a larger breakdown of these systems of
         | control.
        
           | uvaursi wrote:
           | Agreed, but this is mostly coming from people who would
           | normally discredit you bashing MSM as a kook/conspiracy
           | theorist.
           | 
           | People forget, or didn't see, all the staged catastrophes in
           | the 90s that were shortly afterwards pulled off the channel
           | once someone pointed out something obvious (f.e. dolls
           | instead of human victims, wrong location footage, and so on).
           | 
           | But if you were there, and if you saw that, and then saw them
           | pull it off and pretend like it didn't happen for rest of the
           | day, then this AI thing is a nothing burger.
        
         | ozgrakkurt wrote:
         | Or people will just stop believing random things they see
         | online. You are underestimating people imo.
        
         | jmkni wrote:
         | For sure.
         | 
         | I consider myself pretty on the ball when it comes to following
         | this stuff, and even I've been caught off guard by some videos,
         | I've seen videos on Reddit I thought were real until I realised
         | what subreddit I was on
        
       | mentalgear wrote:
       | The fact that OpenAI is pushing Sora, and Altman now even hinting
       | at introducing "erotic roleplay"[0] makes it obvious: openAI has
       | stopped being a real AI research lab. Now, they're just another
       | desperate player in a no-moat market, scrambling to become the
       | primary platform of this hype era and imprison users onto their
       | platform, just like Microsoft and Facebook did before in the PC
       | and social era.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.404media.co/openai-sam-altman-interview-
       | chatgpt-...
        
         | gilfoy wrote:
         | Why is it one or the other? They have enough money to do both.
        
           | mentalgear wrote:
           | But if you followed them, there are focusing only on product
           | for the last 2 years. The grand GPT-5 and their scaling laws,
           | from which all their LLM AGI hopes originated, turned out to
           | be a dud.
        
         | sixothree wrote:
         | The amount of animal abuse videos I've seen is a bit
         | disturbing. It only demonstrates how careless they have been,
         | possibly intentionally. I know people on HN have been
         | describing the various reasons why OpenAI has not been a good
         | player, but seeing it first-hand is visceral in a way that
         | makes me concerned about them as a company.
        
       | bilekas wrote:
       | I got the feeling when this was released that it was just another
       | metric to justify further investment, they were guaranteed to
       | have a lot of users, they can turn around and say "well we have 2
       | huge applications and were just getting started" investors don't
       | care too much about product quality we've seen, just large
       | numbers.
        
       | JohnMakin wrote:
       | It's made my non-sora feeds nearly inconsumable, which I admitted
       | to myself was probably a good thing.
        
       | schnable wrote:
       | OpenAI is making a wild number of product plays at once, trying
       | to leverage the value of the frontier model, brand value, and
       | massive number of eyeballs they own. Sora is just one of many.
       | Some will fail and maybe some will succeed.
       | 
       | It seems true that no company has used frontier models to create
       | a product with business value commensurate with the cost it takes
       | to train and run them. That what OpenAI is trying to do with
       | Sora, and with Codex, Apps, "Agent" flows, etc. I don't think
       | there's more to read into it than that.
        
         | truelson wrote:
         | It's to their benefit to try everything right now. And quickly.
        
         | furyofantares wrote:
         | > It seems true that no company has used frontier models to
         | create a product with business value commensurate with the cost
         | it takes to train and run them.
         | 
         | Anthropic has said that every model they've trained has been
         | profitable. Just not profitable enough to pay to train the next
         | model.
         | 
         | I bet that's true for OpenAI's LLMs too, or would be if they
         | reduced their free tier limits.
        
         | FloorEgg wrote:
         | On some level they know that LLMs alone won't lead to AGI so
         | they have to take a shotgun approach to diversify, and also
         | because integrating some parts of all these paths is more
         | likely to lead to the outcome they want than going all in on
         | one.
         | 
         | Also because they have the funding to do it.
         | 
         | Reminds me a bit of the early Google days, Microsoft, Xerox,
         | etc,
         | 
         | This is just what the teenage stage of the top tech
         | startup/company in an important new category looks like.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | > OpenAI is making a wild number of product plays at once
         | 
         | It's similar to the process of electrification. Every existing
         | machine/process needed to be evaluated to see if electricity
         | would improve it: dish washing, clothes drying, food mixing,
         | etc.
         | 
         | OpenAI is not alone. Every one of their products has an
         | (sometimes superior) equivalent from Google (e.g. Veo for Sora)
         | and other competitors.
        
         | bossyTeacher wrote:
         | >It seems true that no company has used frontier models to
         | create a product with business value commensurate with the cost
         | it takes to train and run them. That what OpenAI is trying to
         | do with Sora, and with Codex, Apps, "Agent" flows, etc. I don't
         | think there's more to read into it than that.
         | 
         | It makes them look desperate though. Nothing like starting tons
         | of services at once to show you have a vision
        
         | mortsnort wrote:
         | The massive cost of this product is unique though (not even
         | counting the copyright lawsuits/settlements coming). I can't
         | think of any side projects that require this level of
         | investment.
        
       | truelson wrote:
       | I love Cal. I really, really take his thoughts on many things to
       | heart for well over a decade now.
       | 
       | I think he's being a bit harsh here. And there are some
       | confounding factors why.
       | 
       | Yes, we have an AI bubble. Yes there's been a ton of hype that
       | can't be met with reality in the short term. That's normal for
       | large changes (and this is a large technological change). OpenAI
       | may have some rough days ahead of it soon, but just like the
       | internet, there's still a lot of signal here and a lot of work to
       | still be done. Going through Suna+Sora videos just last night was
       | still absoutely magical. There's still so much here.
       | 
       | But, OpenAI is also becoming, to use a Ben Thompson term, an
       | aggregator. If it's where you go to solve many problems,
       | advertising and more is a natural fit. It's not certain who comes
       | out on top of the space (or if it can be shared), but there are
       | huge rewards coming in future years, even after a bubble has
       | popped.
       | 
       | Cal is having a very strong reaction here. I value it, but I wish
       | it was more nuanced.
        
         | kulahan wrote:
         | LLMs are only valuable to me at the moment explicitly _because_
         | ads are not part of the scene. Maybe for a while others will
         | use it, but it will be on the exact same treadmill as anything
         | else ad-based: you will become the product, any recommendations
         | are worthless trash, and it is oriented to show as many ads as
         | possible, rather than providing useful content.
         | 
         | Ads destroy... pretty much everything they touch. It's a
         | natural fit, but a terrible one.
        
       | righthand wrote:
       | Any Llm generation tools are spam generation tools. AI-slop ===
       | Spam. How big is the market for spam again?
        
         | mentalgear wrote:
         | Unfortunately due to the generation / verification ratio, spam
         | and misinformation are indeed their most low-hanging fruits.
         | It's so much easier to generate LLM output than to verify it,
         | which is probably why Google held back the Transformer
         | Architecture.
        
         | kulahan wrote:
         | This isn't even remotely true. In its current iteration, it's
         | one of the best jumping-off points for getting up to speed on
         | the basics of a new topic.
        
           | righthand wrote:
           | So is spam if you only need a summarized version of the
           | financial difficulties of princes in Nigeria. Or the kinds of
           | people doctors can't stand.
           | 
           | Your jumping off point is a cliff into a pile of leaves. It
           | looks correct and comfy but will hurt your butt taking it for
           | granted. You're telling people to jump and saying "it'll get
           | better eventually just keep jumping and ignore the pain!"
        
             | kulahan wrote:
             | Nope, spam is specifically unwanted. Also, I'm saying "jump
             | in the leaves, it's fun if you don't try leaping in from a
             | mile up" and you're saying "NO LEAVES KILL PEOPLE ALL THE
             | TIME" lol.
        
               | righthand wrote:
               | What if I don't want to use Llms, but people keep telling
               | me that it's fine and I should. Isn't that spam?
               | 
               | What if my reason isn't, "I like typing code" but
               | instead, "we don't need more Googles doing Google things
               | and abusing privacy."
               | 
               | Then personally the whole thing is spam.
               | 
               | Regardless of what the reasons for and against Llms maybe
               | doesn't obfuscate that the primary use case for generated
               | content has been to scam and spam people.
               | 
               | That spam scam can be simply getting people to pour their
               | personal private info into an Llm or it can be ads or a
               | generated lie. Regardless it's unwanted to a lot of
               | people. And the history of that tech and attempt at
               | normalizing it are founded in spam techniques.
               | 
               | Even the gratuitous search for AGI is spammed on us as
               | these companies take tax payer money and build out
               | infrastructure that's actually available to 0% of the
               | public for use.
               | 
               | Like I discredit in my mind anyone that cites Chatgpt as
               | a source.
        
       | rpjt wrote:
       | I have no FOMO when it comes to Sora. None whatsoever.
       | Authenticity is becoming more important day by day.
        
       | kbos87 wrote:
       | I could see Sora having a significant negative impact on short
       | form video products like TikTok if they don't quickly and
       | accurately find a way to categorize its use. A steady stream of
       | AI generated video content hurts the value prop of short form
       | video in more than one way... It quickly desensitizes you and
       | takes the surprise out that drives consumption of a lot of
       | content. It also of course leaves you feeling like you can't
       | trust anything you see.
        
         | huevosabio wrote:
         | Didn't explicitly think about this, but you're right. I already
         | dismiss off the bat a lot of surprising video content because I
         | don't trust it.
        
         | kulahan wrote:
         | Do people on the dopamine drip really care how real their
         | content is? Tons and tons of it is staged or modified anyways.
         | I'm not sure there's anything Real(tm) on TikTok anyways.
        
           | wobfan wrote:
           | Thought the same. The human-generated content is just as
           | brainless as the AI-generated slop. People who watched the
           | first will also watch the latter. This will not change a lot,
           | I think.
        
           | bemmu wrote:
           | I find Sora refreshing in that I don't have to worry about
           | being tricked by something fake. It's just a fun multiplayer
           | slopfest.
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | It certainly seems there are some who don't care.
           | 
           | You always get the "who cares if it is fake" folks and even
           | on reddit folks will point out something is AI and inevitably
           | folks "who cares".
           | 
           | But I'm not sure how many people that is or what kind of
           | content they care or don't care about.
        
             | janwl wrote:
             | I mean, it's entertainment content. It's like saying a
             | movie is fake, they are actors playing roles. Of course.
             | Who cares?
        
               | duxup wrote:
               | Depends on if the content is expected to be real or not.
        
         | ToucanLoucan wrote:
         | I mean, this is basically already status quo for YouTube
         | Shorts. Tons and tons of shorts are AI-voice over either AI
         | video or stock video covering some pithy thing in no actual
         | depth, just piggybacking off of trending topics. And TikTok has
         | had the same sort of content for even longer.
         | 
         | The "value" of short video content is already somewhat of a
         | poor value proposition for this and other reasons. It lets you
         | just obliterate time which can be handy in certain situations,
         | but it also ruins your attention span.
        
       | gdulli wrote:
       | > A company that still believes that its technology was
       | imminently going to run large swathes of the economy, and would
       | be so powerful as to reconfigure our experience of the world as
       | we know it, wouldn't be seeking to make a quick buck selling ads
       | against deep fake videos of historical figures wrestling.
       | 
       | But also, a company that earnestly believes that it's about to
       | disrupt most labor is going to want to grab as many of those
       | bucks as possible before people no longer have income.
        
       | xwowsersx wrote:
       | This take feels like classic Cal Newport pattern-matching:
       | something looks vaguely "consumerish," so it must signal decline.
       | It's a huge overreach.
       | 
       | Whether OpenAI becomes a truly massive, world-defining company is
       | an open question, but it's not going to be decided by Sora.
       | Treating a research-facing video generator as if it's OpenAI's
       | attempt at the next TikTok is just missing the forest for the
       | trees. Sora isn't a product bet, it's a technology demo or a
       | testbed for video and image modeling. They threw a basic
       | interface on top so people could actually use it. If they shut
       | that interface down tomorrow, it wouldn't change a thing about
       | the underlying progress in generative modeling.
       | 
       | You can argue that OpenAI lacks focus, or that they waste energy
       | on these experiments. That's a reasonable discussion. But calling
       | it "the beginning of the end" because of one side project is just
       | unserious. Tech companies at the frontier run hundreds of little
       | prototypes like this... most get abandoned, and that's fine.
       | 
       | The real question about OpenAI's future has nothing to do with
       | Sora. It's whether large language and multimodal models
       | eventually become a zero-margin commodity. If that happens,
       | OpenAI's valuation problem isn't about branding or app strategy,
       | it's about economics. Can they build a moat beyond "we have the
       | biggest model"? Because that won't hold once opensource and fine-
       | tuned domain models catch up.
       | 
       | So sure, Sora might be a distraction. But pretending that a minor
       | interface launch is some great unraveling of OpenAI's trajectory
       | is just lazy narrative-hunting.
        
         | bossyTeacher wrote:
         | I agree. My bet is that OpenAI will not fullfill its mission of
         | developing AGI by 2035. And I would be surprised if they ever
         | did. As much as they might want to, there is only so many
         | dreams you can whisper into rich people's ears before they tell
         | you to go away. And without rich people's money, OpenAI will
         | fall like a house of cards. The wealthy won't have infinite
         | patience
        
         | impossiblefork wrote:
         | There are also interesting things one could do with models like
         | Sora, depending how it actually performs in practice: prompting
         | to segment, for example; and the thing could very possibly, if
         | it's fast enough etc. become a foundation for robotics.
        
       | ilickpoolalgae wrote:
       | > It's unclear whether this app will last. One major issue is the
       | back-end expense of producing these videos. For now, OpenAI
       | requires a paid ChatGPT Plus account to generate your own
       | content. At the $20 tier, you can pump out up to 50 low-
       | resolution videos per month. For a whopping $200 a month, you can
       | generate more videos at higher resolutions. None of this compares
       | favorably to competitors like TikTok, which are exponentially
       | cheaper to operate and can therefore not only remain truly free
       | for all users, but actually pay their creators .
       | 
       | fwiw, there's no requirement to have a subscription to create
       | content.
        
       | sosodev wrote:
       | This article makes the claim that OpenAI, and AI in general, is
       | massively overhyped because OpenAI is looking to sell slop. I'm
       | not sure I can agree with that basic premise.
       | 
       | Whether AGI does or does not materialize sometime soon doesn't
       | matter. OpenAI, like every company who wants to raise massive
       | amounts of money, needs to show huge growth numbers _now_. It
       | seems like the unfortunate, simple truth is that slop is a growth
       | hack.
        
       | micromacrofoot wrote:
       | OpenAI is steering significant amounts of traffic away from
       | Google and ChatGPT is a fairly common name that extends beyond
       | awareness of the company (or even what the word it means
       | specifically).
       | 
       | Not nearly on the level of "Kleenex" or "Google" as a term, but
       | impressive given that other companies have spent decades trying
       | to make a similar dent.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | So what though? At best they will stuff it with ads like Google
         | has done and become what is basically Bing w/ Copilot. That
         | isn't going to pay back the $500 billion or however much
         | they're trying to raise.
        
           | micromacrofoot wrote:
           | it means I highly doubt it's the "beginning of the end" as
           | postulated... unless it's a very very long end
           | 
           | as another example: tesla has strung along a known
           | overvaluation for a long time now and there's no end in sight
           | despite a number of blunders
        
       | FrustratedMonky wrote:
       | When you have this much money, you can afford to chase AGI, and
       | assign a few people to make an app. The app might be frivolous,
       | but it keep OpenAI in the public view. It's money well spent on
       | marketing.
        
       | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
       | "It wasn't that long ago that Sam Altman was still _comparing the
       | release of GPT-5 to the testing of the first atomic bomb_ , and
       | many commentators took Dario Amodei at his word when he
       | proclaimed* 50% of white collar jobs might soon be automated* by
       | LLM-based tools.
       | 
       | A company that still believes that its technology was imminently
       | going to run large swathes of the economy, and would be so
       | powerful as to reconfigure our experience of the world as we know
       | it, wouldn't be seeking to make a quick buck selling ads against
       | deep fake videos of historical figures wrestling. They also
       | wouldn't be entertaining the idea, _as Altman did last week_ ,
       | that they might soon start offering an age-gated version of
       | ChatGPT so that adults could enjoy"
        
         | freefaler wrote:
         | They might be forced to do so because the current inference
         | pricing is not really covered by the 20$ monthly fee. Who knows
         | what they have promised to the investors and the real cashflow
         | is hard to be certain about with the circular nature of cross-
         | investing between the biggest players.
        
       | bdcravens wrote:
       | More likely it's the beginning of the end for TikTok, since the
       | amount of posts that use seems to be flooding the platform,
       | lowering trust and credibility in each video.
        
         | fishmicrowaver wrote:
         | Hmm I have my doubts. I don't really understand the appeal of
         | hyper-consumerism, brand focus, and big SM platform engagement.
         | But I look over at my wife and she is clearly plugged in to a
         | giant worldwide cultural movement of womens interests, product
         | recommendations, and politics. It also appears to be the case
         | that women are less likely to engage with AI. It's one of the
         | big reasons I think it's a massive blunder to pursue AI
         | erotica. I think a big part of the TikTok user base (women)
         | will have to be persuaded to jump on the AI bandwagon and I'm
         | not sure the industry is pursuing any products or features to
         | woo that market.
        
       | f33d5173 wrote:
       | > wouldn't be seeking to make a quick buck selling ads against
       | deep fake videos
       | 
       | This isn't a money making venture for them, and you basically
       | admitted as much. They poured no doubt massive amounts of money
       | into developing this and have little hope of earning it back
       | soon. This is an attempt to keep up with other ai companies also
       | developing video models in order to not look behind to investors.
       | Making it available to users is similarly about increasing active
       | user counts in order to look more successful. If people
       | incidentally get off to it that's not their concern
        
       | Nimitz14 wrote:
       | Sora is about data gathering. This take is too simplistic.
        
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