[HN Gopher] Why We Need Arabic Language Models
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Why We Need Arabic Language Models
Author : thinkingemote
Score : 24 points
Date : 2025-10-19 19:50 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.natureasia.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.natureasia.com)
| sarabande wrote:
| Does anyone know if they published the dataset?
| nakamoto_damacy wrote:
| I wonder of you pre train on Hebrew and Arabic if it will find
| the similarities between the RTL writing direction. So many
| similar words. I guess both came from Aramaic? If so, how about
| the trifecta of ancient languages with Aramaic then Hebrew the
| Arabic.
| ch4s3 wrote:
| They don't come from Aramaic, Arabic is a Southwestern Semitic
| language and Aramaic and Hebrew are Northwestern Semitic
| languages. Aramaic and Hebrew tree are sort of cousins with
| Hebrew splitting off from southern Canaanite which was sort of
| a siblings language with an older form of Aramaic.
| nakamoto_damacy wrote:
| They = Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic
|
| ---
|
| ## 1. "They all kept the triconsonantal root system -- where
| word meaning is based on three core consonants (like K-T-B =
| "write" - Hebrew katav, Arabic kataba, Aramaic ktav)."
|
| *Source evidence:*
|
| * The article "Triliteral Roots / Consonantal Roots" states
| that many Semitic languages (including Arabic, Hebrew) have
| roots typically made of three consonants (triliteral) and
| that words are formed by inserting vowels, etc. ([Transparent
| Blogs][1]) * A source says: "Both Hebrew and Arabic rely on a
| triliteral root system, meaning words are formed from three
| core consonants. Example of the root K-T-B..." ([Biblical
| Hebrew][2]) * Another general description: "The roots of
| verbs and most nouns in the Semitic languages are
| characterized as a sequence of consonants ... such abstract
| consonantal roots are used..." ([Wikipedia][3]) So this claim
| is well supported.
|
| *Arabic translation of the claim:*
|
| > HtfZt jmy`h bnZm ljdhr lthlthy lHrwf -- Hyth y`tmd m`n~
| lklm@ `l~ thlth@ Hrwf Smt@ 'ssy@ (mthl k-t-b = "ktb/yktb" -
| l`bry@ ktb (katav), l`rby@ ktb (kataba), larmy@ ktab (ktav)).
|
| *Hebrew translation of the claim:*
|
| > kvln shmrv `l shytt hshvrsh htlt-`bry -- shbh mshm`vt hmylh
| mbvsst `l shlvshh `ytsvrym l(lmshl ktb = "ktb" - `bryt ktb (
| katav ), `rbyt ktb ( kataba ), rmyt ktb ( ktav )).
|
| *Citations (for this claim):*
|
| * Semitic linguistics: "The roots of verbs and most nouns in
| the Semitic languages are characterized as a sequence of
| consonants ..." ([Wikipedia][3])
|
| * "Both Hebrew and Arabic rely on a triliteral root system,
| meaning words are formed from three core consonants."
| ([Biblical Hebrew][2])
|
| * Description of the K-T-B root being used in both Arabic and
| Hebrew. ([Wikipedia][4])
|
| ---
|
| ## 2. "They share similar grammar and sound systems, just
| evolved differently."
|
| *Source evidence:*
|
| * A blog post on Duolingo says: "Because Arabic and Hebrew
| are part of the same large language family, their grammars
| often 'work' in similar ways." ([Duolingo Blog][5]) * A site
| "Arabic and Hebrew Compared" states: "Arabic and Hebrew
| morphology ... is based on the consonant root system. ..."
| ([Google Sites][6]) * The Wikipedia article on Semitic
| languages states that the Semitic languages share many
| grammatical features (word order, non-concatenative
| morphology, etc.) ([Wikipedia][7]) So yes, there is support
| for similar grammar and sound (phonological) systems.
|
| *Arabic translation of the claim:*
|
| > nhm tshtrkn fy nHw wSwtyt mtshbh@, rq tTwrt bshkl mkhtlf.
|
| *Hebrew translation of the claim:*
|
| > hn khvlqvt dqdvq vm`rkvt tslylym dvmvt, rq shhtptkhv bvpn
| shvnh.
|
| *Citations (for this claim):*
|
| * "Because Arabic and Hebrew ... their grammars often 'work'
| in similar ways." ([Duolingo Blog][5]) * "Arabic and Hebrew
| morphology ... is based on the consonant root system."
| ([Google Sites][6]) * "Semitic languages share a number of
| grammatical features ..." ([Wikipedia][7])
|
| ---
|
| ## 3. "Many religious and cultural interactions over
| millennia reinforced overlap (borrowed or re-borrowed
| vocabulary)."
|
| *Source evidence:*
|
| * The article "Similarities Between Hebrew and Arabic"
| mentions: "Many Hebrew and Arabic words are cognates,
| retaining similar meanings and sounds." ([Biblical
| Hebrew][2]) * A blog "Halal, Hillul, and the Shared Meanings
| of Hebrew and Arabic" discusses relationships between similar
| sounding words (cognates) due to shared roots. ([Hebrew
| College][8]) * Comparative grammar sources mention that
| because Hebrew, Arabic and Aramaic are closely related, there
| has been lexical borrowing and shared vocabulary.
| ([semiticroots.net][9]) So your statement about
| religious/cultural interaction reinforcing overlap
| (vocabulary) is broadly supported.
|
| *Arabic translation of the claim:*
|
| > l`dyd mn ltf`lt ldyny@ wlthqfy@ `br l'lfyt `zWazt ltdkhl
| (st`rt 'w '`dt st`r@ mfrdt).
|
| *Hebrew translation of the claim:*
|
| > ynspvr yntrqtsyvt dtyvt vtrbvtyvt lvrk lpy hshnym khyzqv t
| hhshtlbvt (hshlh v hshlh mkhdsh shl vtsr mylym).
|
| *Citations (for this claim):*
|
| * "Many Hebrew and Arabic words are cognates ..." ([Biblical
| Hebrew][2]) * "The relationships between similar-sounding
| words ... in the case of the Semitic languages, similar
| roots." ([Hebrew College][8]) * "Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic
| ... than between Hebrew and any other language ..."
| ([semiticroots.net][9])
|
| ---
|
| [1]: https://blogs.transparent.com/hebrew/hebrew-grammar-
| consonan... "Hebrew Grammar: Consonantal Roots - Transparent
| Language Blog" [2]: https://biblicalhebrew.org/similarities-
| between-hebrew-and-a... "Similarities Between Hebrew and
| Arabic" [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_root?utm_s
| ource=chatgp... "Semitic root - Wikipedia" [4]:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-T-B?utm_source=chatgpt.com
| "K-T-B" [5]: https://blog.duolingo.com/are-arabic-hebrew-
| persian-related/... "Dear Duolingo: Are Arabic, Hebrew, and
| Persian related?" [6]:
| https://sites.google.com/site/mopclanguages/arabic-and-
| hebre... "MOPC Languages - Arabic and Hebrew Compared" [7]: h
| ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages?utm_source=c..
| . "Semitic languages" [8]:
| https://hebrewcollege.edu/blog/halal-hillul-and-the-
| shared-m... "Halal, Hillul, and the Shared Meanings of Hebrew
| and Arabic" [9]: https://www.semiticroots.net/downloads/Compa
| rative%20Grammar... "Comparative Grammar of the Semitic
| Languages"
| binarymax wrote:
| Do we need language specific LLMs? I can't vouch for the data
| coverage or accuracy of Arabic in the leading models today, but I
| do know them to be highly cross-lingual capable.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| Makes me wonder who did the translation
|
| "This is a translation of the Arabic article published on 3rd
| August 2025"
|
| Full irony would be from an LLM
| tokai wrote:
| Such declarations have become pretty useless without any
| indicator of the translation method.
| nzeid wrote:
| > Clear examples emerge when global language models address
| culturally sensitive issues, such as social relationships or
| political debates. They often adopt ambiguous positions that
| overlook the Arab cultural context, creating a gap between these
| digital tools and the values and lived experiences of Arab users.
|
| Well I have bad news, my friend. English language models are also
| terrible at this.
|
| This whole article seems to stem from the premise that it's
| important for LLMs to engage cultural issues competently. But...
| should they even?
| Fade_Dance wrote:
| >But... should they even?
|
| I don't see why not?
|
| Also, while I don't have access to this perspective myself, I'd
| imagine this is an unending annoyance in many areas of the
| world, since they are consuming often quite America-centric
| offerings where localization is an after-thought and contracted
| out.
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(page generated 2025-10-19 23:01 UTC)